Jan 12
Media Avalanche of Glazer-Debt Stories Gathers Pace
The Guardian has been rattling off story after story on the Glazer debt, giving me an image of a press room chock full of Shakespearean monkeys rattling away feverishly at their keyboards. And, whilst some of them have gotten repetitive, quite a few of them have been good reads.
The blogosphere isn’t far behind though, and there is some good material going around over there too.
Leading off is, proper journalist David Conn’s piece, describing how the Glazer family have borrowed money from club coffers. The fact that our debt and the Glazer family debt is just about one and the same, being a fully family owned private entity, the club is sadly vulnerable to money being siphoned off without really being answerable to the fans.
That is a point made quite clear in the analysis in RoM; a pretty comprehensive analysis that weighs the pros and cons of the refinancing. However, an assertion made in the analysis — especially, the bit about the difference between Profit & Loss statement and Cash flow accounts — piqued my curiosity; in particular, this:
Similarly I read some comments on the lines of “If we had purchased Carlos Tevez for £25m, our profits would have been lower by £25m.” Again not correct. Players are the operating assets of a football club and any purchase made will reflect in the cash-flow statement and not in the Profit and loss statement [For context read the preceding paragraph too]
But does that mean we can buy player after player, yet not have it show in our P/L account? Isn’t money being spent (ie, leaving the club)? So isn’t this just accounting wizardry to make things look pretty? I am not an expert on accounting practices, so I’ll be grateful towards any expert who can shed more light on this.
The ever excellent football blog Pitch Invasion, sources an image via the Financial Times, giving a diagrammatic break-down of how the Glazers have ‘milked’ Manchester United.
United Rant reports on the existing fears on fans’ minds all along: that the Ronaldo money was mostly earmarked for debt.
* * *
A few thoughts on this whole situation:
Whilst most successful businesses can run with serviceable debt — in many cases, debt is a good indicator of growth for a business — the principles when applied for a football club is not sustainable in the long term. If the Glazers succeed it will be a miracle. And the exception. Not the rule.
The problem with such kind of ownership is the profits do not justify the investments. Other businesses grow by selling a product and being competitive by serving it. In football the product, as it were, is performance on the pitch, and an especially high performance level in United’s case to remain profitable. Very few clubs in major leagues in Europe are really that profitable. The Ronaldo money helped us to a profit. But how many Ronaldos do we need to sell every season? Also, the business model seems to rely on sustained period of success. Essentially that means it hinges on levels of human success/failure — be it the manager, or players, or poor transfer choices. That’s a lot of uncertainty if you think about it. [Not everyone has Ferguson. And even those who have a Ferguson, it's not forever.]
So it doesn’t take Sherlock-like deduction skills to conclude the Glazer style of ownership is terribly flawed. As are most bids to buying clubs with the intent of making profits. It was the case back in the time of Martin Edwards, and it will be so in the times of Hicks-Gillet, and the Glazers. And it was also true when we were in the stock market.
I am once again tempted to quote from Simon Kuper’s book, and I paraphrase, “Buying a football club is not a business decision, it’s philanthropy.” Only sugar daddies of the Abramovich or Al-Nahyan scale can expect to buy a football club and not break a sweat. So supporter-run ownership of the Barcelona/Madrid/Schalke scale is the way to go. But, unfortunately, with the amount of debts we are in, we can consign the “let-every-United-supporter-contribute-X-pounds” line of thought to the realms of fantasy. Even if supporters stumped up the cash, there would always be another investor looking to buy it off the Glazers.
* * *
When news broke about the issue of bonds, there has been talk of how the resulting lowered interest payments could mean money spent on transfers. In fact the Mirror are reporting that the Glazers have handed Ferguson £75m to spend. But haven’t we heard Ferguson and club spokesmen go on about how they have £80m to spend? So I’ll believe that when I see it.
Related items from Red Rants:- United’s debt situation explained
- All Smoke, Little Fire on the Transfer Front
- No Smoke Without Fire at Old Trafford?
- The Glazer Financial Breakdown
- The Glazer Debt — Dark Truth or Mere Paranoia?
Tags: Opinions/Columns
January 12th, 2010 at 22:34
I think what the ROM analysis was saying was that even though player acquisitions are not reflected on the P/L statement, they would have to use borrowed money to do it.
This in turn would put added pressure on us to succeed on the field and that added pressure is why SAF “sees no value in the market”.
Take that how you will, but it smacks of cold feet if you ask me.
January 12th, 2010 at 22:38
@Redrich: Say, what? Now that’s confused me even more.
January 12th, 2010 at 22:42
@Redranter
I read the RoM article and it was quite enlightening.I too was curious about where player purchases are accounted for. I was shocked initialy when we had made £81m on player transfers because we have bought Berbatov, Tosic and possibly Valencia in the same fiscal year.
My understanding based on the article is that player purchases must hit the P&L accounts and are accounted for in the “Amortisation of Player’s registrations” section. I don’t know if this is right but hopefully a finance expert can shed some more light.
January 12th, 2010 at 22:43
The real problem with the club right now is that despite the way the club is playing and despite the shenanigans of the Glazer’s, the club is not losing any of it’s revenue stream. People are still coming to see the team in record numbers, merchandise is flying off the shelves and people like myself keep paying money for the cable package that allows me to watch every game the team plays. Until fans themselves make a statement by not paying to see the club or buying the merchandise, nothing will change for the better. Despite the fact that the Glazer’s are not making a mint off the ownership of the team, they are in no way feeling the pressure to sell due to the stands being empty or the jersey’s aren’t selling. Only we the fans can truly force the Glazer’s into action by just saying NO. But unfortunately, trying to tell an addict to just say no is almost as impossible as getting Fergie to say sweet things about the BBC. We the fans are this team’s worst enemy right now.
January 12th, 2010 at 22:49
@Cyclops-Red: The other problem with the Glazer’s and the club is that they do not see player purchases as an asset but as a debit. They are concerned that buying expensive players will cause them to lose money when in fact, it ensures them making money because it will bring over more fans, more licensed products and above all, ensure that the team continues to win and go deep into competitions which in turn guarantees a great revenue stream. I fail to see how not buying players helps a team when it forces them to be knocked out early in tournaments, possibly miss out on Europe, sell less advertisements and merchandise simply because we do not have the star appeal that many world class players bring to a team. It’s candy store economics that the Glazer’s are using which lacks vision and perspective.
January 12th, 2010 at 22:52
I’m not sure if I should laugh, cry or jump with joy.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/01/12/1740551/glazers-to-hand-sir-alex-ferguson-75m-transfer-kitty-at?
January 12th, 2010 at 23:07
@Grognard:
It will be interesting to see if they are successful with this junk bond issue. If not maybe it will force their hand to sell the club, though somehow I doubt it.
Also I think this year will see a drop in revenue. Its not that difficult to get a ticket at OT these days and they have struggled with corporate packages. No lucrative World Club Championship, FA Cup run, possible earlier exit from CL. Even the new AON shirt sponsorship is only £1m more than the AIG deal. I think turnover will be nearer 2008 about £257m.
January 12th, 2010 at 23:08
@Grognard: That’s what I linked to in my article and commented on.
*Sigh* No one really reads what I write, after all…
I think I should revert to Plan B which is employing an army of monkeys typing gibberish in the main articles; and no one would even notice.
January 12th, 2010 at 23:21
So what are you thoughts about the article @Red Ranter?
Are we really gonna be given the £75mill?
January 12th, 2010 at 23:36
@The Cockney Red: First of all it’s the Daily Mirror. There are no quotes, and only hearsay.
I’ve endured months of double-speak. If Fergie said there’s no value for money in the market (the same market where he sold Ronaldo for 80m and had no qualms of buying Berbatov for 30m — admittedly before their supposed under-26 policy), then how is another 75m going to change that?
Of course, if we assume he actually said all that to mask the fact we were skint then (and not now) then we can only believe what happens in action. i.e., if Ferguson buys players.
On the other hand, if he genuinely believed there was no value in the market, then it wouldn’t matter if he had 200m to spend. As a consequence, I will be worried, because I genuinely believe if we look at the right places we can get value.
If there is any way we can use the public perception of our current debt situation to our advantage, it is in getting rid of the ‘United tax’. Because now selling clubs may actually believe we can’t be fleeced like we used to.
In conclusion: As with the chances of Hargreaves returning to first team action: I’ll believe it when I see it.
January 13th, 2010 at 0:33
@Red Ranter: thats a good point about shedding the united tax. Maybe we can use it and sneak in a few gems.
January 13th, 2010 at 0:34
@The Cockney Red: @Red Ranter: maybe this is a more creditable source? financial times
January 13th, 2010 at 0:42
Sir Alex speaks to the funds available for transfers.
“I don’t have any concerns about the financial situation,” he said. “There is absolutely no issue at all. I am really confident about that. Concerns of the supporters are down to the fact that I haven’t moved in the transfer market. But that is nothing to do with the Glazers or with David Gill.
“It is simply because I am not going to pay £50 million for a striker who is not worth it.”
“There has been talk about a bond issue and I think that’s a good thing for the club. Anything that helps with the repayment of the debt is a good thing,” he said. “There is debt there but it has never interrupted my plans for the team – at any stage.”
“It’s true that we don’t have great options if Rooney were to get injured, in the sense that we don’t have top quality like Ronaldo, who could play anywhere,” Ferguson said.
“But I can’t see any real diamonds. I just don’t see that player who can make a difference for us in terms of value or ability.”
January 13th, 2010 at 0:42
@gator: that bit isn’t new. It could be either used to buy players or repay the debt.
We had the same option with the Ronaldo money. We all know what happened with that now, don’t we?
January 13th, 2010 at 0:43
@gator: These were again old quotes from last week.
January 13th, 2010 at 0:43
link to SAF quotes from above
January 13th, 2010 at 0:45
@Red Ranter: old, yes but answers to questions still being asked.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:01
@gator: How does that answer questions? All it does is fan flames of fear that we won’t buy, because Fergie doesn’t feel there is any player that would improve our team. Really, Fergie?
January 13th, 2010 at 1:06
The simplicity of this whole issue is actually amazing.The Glazers are not actually billiionaires because of their huge personal debts which is evident in their “borrowing” from United coffers. The club is currently $1bn in debt right now and counting. United also happens to be the Glazers’ more profitable cash cow. We make them the most money even though we are not really making good profits. MUFC certainly performs financially better than the likes of Tampa Bay.This clearly shows that the success of this club does not lie in any way with continued association with these guys because they have nothing themselves. It’s different from Roman’s case,who is actually a true billionaire who bought Chelsea for cash and does not worry about rates and debts.They are fully aware of this fact also and they are not wiling to let go of the club unless they can make a substantial profit from it. They will probably listen to offers in excess of $1.3bn preferably paid in full or within a short period of time.
In simpler English,we’re are really caught between a rock and a hard place. The only way we can get out of this fix is by getting rid of the current owners,who can only leave if a substantial buy out offer should come. Such offers can only be made by the super rich money spinners from the Middle East,who may not be as sympathetic to the history of the club etc as City have realised. Still it’s a risk worth taking as it currently looks the only way out.Even that may still prove to be headache,given the econonic issues taking place in Dubai right now which have caused the tycoons to tighten their belts.
If only we were playing meaningful football,and entertaining. At least then we could just forget about this bleak present and potentially bleak future.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:09
@Red Ranter: My question to every one is simple; how would the purchase of new players really help us here?
January 13th, 2010 at 1:11
@Red Ranter: I think the gist of what he was saying is that by using borrowed money to purchase players it makes it critical to see some good return on the investment. Firstly on the field and then reflected in some form of growth.
So SAF, when he says “no value”, is speaking in investment terms as well as a comparison of the players relative values.
A lot of of it is gobbly-goop to me as well, but I think I got that bit.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:33
So the Carlos tevez who everyone on here villified has one more goal thus far than the £70m Rooney.
I’m gonna take a page out of Grognards book and pat myself on the back, because I was one of the last few who said we fucked up the Tevez situation. @Grognard: I actually want to applaud you for admitting letting Tevez go was a mistake on fergies part.
Up until the past few weeks fergie was considered untouchable, and any negative words against him were not tolerated. Now we all love Fergie and he is with out a shadow of a doubt the greatest club manager ever. But he is still human and capable of botching things.
Yes Tevez lost it, the last few months he was here and I am on complete agreement that tevez comments were out of line. But it’s time fergie took a little heat over the entire affair as well.
I always understood that fergie handles transfers, so it was either him or David gill who agreed to that ridiculous loan deal with joorabchian.
It was then fergie who jerked tevez around all last season(IMO to try and lower the valuation of tevez) it’s stupid when you think that fergie was unhappy with the price that United and Kia agreed upon before the start of the loan. So to think that joorabchian would budge on the price was ridiculous to start with.
People including fergie always use tevez goal tally from last season as proof that he isn’t worth the 25m. But they always conveniently forgot about his first season with us where he was instrumental in winning the double. He only was off form last year because fergie never played him consistently(he wasn’t the only one to get rotated constantly.)
Ronaldo thrived tevez first year because Rooney and Tevez caused havoc by their incredible work rate up top. The trio of them was devastating and incredibly hard to neutralize.
Fergie ruined the chemistry of the trio by bringing in berba. Which is frustrating because he has since admitted he didn’t know how to use berba. Berba was unfairly placed higher than tevez in the pecking order, just because fergie wanted him for so long and payed so much for him.
Thru all this Tevez never complained for about 3/4th of his time here. Even last season he continued to give 110% every time he was on the pitch. It was only toward the end when United kept stalling on a contract, fergie called him a “triar”, and he was benched that he finally snapped, and started ad mouthing fergie and his staff.
Having said all that, I don’t think tevez is worth £25m. But figuring in the United tax it is reasonable. Tevez isn’t a prolific goal scorer. Yeah he can get hot like he is now, but we all know he can go cold as well(reminds me of a certain scouser we have on our books right now). His passing and first touch also leave alot to be desired.
Finally, when comparing him to Rooney and Berba, I agree he is third on that list when it comes to talent. He is basically a slightly poor mans Rooney, but they work well together. Berba has loads more talent and technical ability, but he simply doesn’t fit in our team with or without Ronaldo.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:36
yeah RR, what about Ribery, Young, Dourcouf, Villa, Silva, Neuer, Benzema, Huntelaar,Aguero, even Tim Cahill
any of these players would improve our squad and the list could go on! Fergies hands are tied, simple as. Now if he was intending to retire, and monies were being held for a new manager, then not buying is a senseable option. If he believes his own rhetoric, which i seriously doubt, he needs his head checked.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:37
The real question is who could be bought at this time. I mean there aren’t really any great options out there. Well at least in terms of realistic options. Valencia will not release any of their players at this point in the season,especially with the Spanish championship looking a lot more open this year. Van der Vaart will not leave Madrid unless they can find a better replacement now and how many are available. In England we have the likes of Ashley Young,who will definitely not leave Aston Villa at this stage and given their ambitions. Carlton Cole. Well he could be available but to me he is not the value we need. Any major business will have to be done in the summer,if necessary. We probably needed a centre back more than anything else at this point,otherwise I just don’t see any other position being possible.
What we need even if no one wants to hear this,is to remove Mr Phelan from where he is and also to hire a technical director or an assistant manager(coach) whether Ferguson likes it or not. Also he needs to play a secondary role in tactical issues,and leave the real stuff to a competent coach. It will never happen,but that’s we need.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:39
@Johnsom33: On Tevez he works well on sides where he’s the main man and playing regularly – like at Corinthians West Ham and now City. Not possible with the pecking order Fergie has in place.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:41
@Redrich: I think buying a player does involve an element of leap of faith regardless of the obvious talent on display.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:48
@Grognard: But the fact is that if we were playing good football, scoring goals and not loosing games, very few of us would give a crap about all these financial shenanigans.
Lets face it, the bottom line is that we follow this sport for enjoyment and to an extent escapism and when we’re not having a very good time with all this we just want to dig down to the root cause of it all.
Boycotting games, merchandise etc. will just make things even more unbearable. We are a fickle lot sometimes, but the need to follow a sports team is kind of whimsical in the first place!
January 13th, 2010 at 1:50
@Red Ranter: I agree with that, so whats with the cold feet all of a sudden?
January 13th, 2010 at 1:59
Two new posts up on the Guardian;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/13/manchester-united-finances-glazer-family
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/13/manchester-united-finances-glazer-family
Seems like our worst fears are coming home to roost as they are preparing to asset strip the club. I had it with these chancers.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:01
@Red Ranter: Agreed, it’s funny how virtually every player plays well when played consistently. Yet fergies seems to disagree.
I think it’s incredibly unfair when people criticise Nani, Anderson, berba, Owen… When clearly they aren’t playing regular first team football. These guys have shown flashes with what they can do, but they are never given a chance to get in a decent string of games. How many time has Anderson played with the same midfield?
One thing I really admire about Wenger is that when he buys players he believes in them and sticks with them. My brother is a arsenal fan so I always hear about them. Players like Song,denilson, Adebayor, Bendtner were all players that the fans hated and couldn’t see why Wenger would still play them. Yet he did, he kept playing them and eventually the fans saw what he saw all along. Now does this make Wenger the best talent scout? Not necessarily, but he does give his players a fair chance to come good.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:09
@Johnsom33: If you have watched the City games esp towards the end of the year and from the beginning of this year,you’ll be able to see his real value. I have been hugely impressed with his performances of late and yes, Ferguson is to blame for most of that rubbish. He is like the playmaker in that front line up at City,holding the ball up very well and making and spotting the runs. Exactly what Rooney used to do when he was 18. He is looking very confident too. But we should never underestimate the role of Roberto Mancini in getting the best out of Tevez and every other player there. He placed De Jong at the base of his midfield as a screen for the defence,with Petrov on one flank and either of Benjani or Santa Cruz at the tip of attack,and Bellamy on the other flank. He has given Tevez a sort of “free role” in the attack and he has flourished.
Thing is, fans of English football don’t appreciate the technical side of football. That’s why Mancini’s team plays more fluently,and looks more assured than Hughes’. The difference a competent coach can have is great. Placing his players in their most suitable positions,within a player-friendly well defined consistent system. Sorry for going on a tangent with the reply,I normally do that.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:10
@Red Ranter: Sorry mate I did read the article but I must admit that I skipped the last sentence down on the bottom due to the fact I got a phone call. When I returned I forgot to go back and finish reading and I went to NewsNow and found the article. I do read your articles mate, honest I do.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:12
@Red Ranter: There may be increased pressure on Fergie from even the Glazer’s to dab into the transfer market because the club is so obviously in need of some quality. If they are to interest investors, a competitive and quality team on show is vital and even they can see the club at present is shite.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:18
@Johnsom33: Letting Tevez go was and wasn’t a mistake. It was a mistake because his work ethic pace and style of play suited our style better and was more compatible with Rooney. But the asking price for him was way too much and so for that reason, I do not think it was as big a mistake had we bought somebody other than Berbatov for a lot less and who would now be amongst the league’s leaders in goals. Tevez is a good player but for me he isn’t a world class player and I always felt that this club should have two world class forwards. Frankly, Tevez is largely to blame for his dismissal simply because he did not play as well last season as he had the year before. His finishing was poor and his overall game had shown holes. Part of the reason he is doing so well at City is because that club does not put as much emphasis on defensive duties and so he can concentrate much more on his attacking game than he could with us. That’s not necessarily a good thing. After all, what the fuck has City ever won?
January 13th, 2010 at 2:19
@Johnsom33: But when you come to United you are always going to face a fight to get in the starting 11.
The squad is larger, you have more competition, and that competition is of a higher quality than most other teams.
There’s no question that playing time is a key element in the success of the player, but really the manager will always put out the team that will win the game. We don’t see what goes on on the practice field and so it’s hard to judge why some players play and others sit.
So yes it is unfair to certain players who seem unable to get a crap of the whip, but then players like Berbatov and Nani have had their opportunities and generally fluffed them!!
January 13th, 2010 at 2:22
@Grognard: It was a mistake, because he scored a hattrick yesterday.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:23
@Jay wire: You know, the bottom line is you could fit the team with Zidane, Beckenbauer, Mueller, Pele, Platini Baresi and Maier and there would be no guarantee of success if the club continues to play such a slow and negative style of football. Fergie has utilize his talent by not putting shackles on it like he is presently doing. If he has 11 world class players on the field and still decides to play 4-5-1 and back pass opponents to death, I do not see any changes happening. He must alter the style of the team according tot he talent he has available. It would be tragic if he were to buy a talent like Gourcuff and then play him like a DMF. He already has screwed up Michael Carrick beyond repair.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:29
@Johnsom33: You see that’s the reason I have been arguing that our problem is not in players. It’s not that we have a bunch of Coca Cola Championship players,otherwise we would not be anywhere near the top 4. We need a coach. I am pretty sure no other team since the beginning of documented football has experienced this much tinkering. We probably set the new world record back in April,because on Saturday we will name a different squad for the 102nd consecutive time. We have played six or more different systems so far this season. Even if we were to bring the best of the best,they would be reduced to nothing within 6 months,because no human can do anything other than regress under current conditions. I’m not in the “sack Saf” squad,but I might just join if things continue like this. I don’t care even if we were to win the Champions League this year but his current way of doing things is totally unsustainable and ultimately destructive.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:31
@Redrich: I cannot speak for others mate but I will say that I have always been very concerned about the Glazer’s and my posts dating back three years have indicated this. Even back when we were doing very well I was concerned about the way things were looking and how much of a struggle it was to even buy a player like Berbatov. Fun aside, the future status and health of this team means everything to me because I am not just a johnny come lately fan. Like you, I have been a fans for over three decades and so I have invested a lot of my time and energy into the club.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:39
@Redrich: I don’t think it was a mistake. It was unfortunate because he had a certain value but I agree with RR about the fact that Tevez is a big fish in a little pond whereas when he was here he was a guppy in a large ocean. The fact is that he never did anything last year to make us believe he was worth the money he was demanding. Fine, I wanted him to stay but for half of the asking price. He could score 30 goals this season and I wouldn’t think he was worth 30 million as a player. That’s not to say I didn’t like him and the fact is he partnered up better with Rooney than either Berba or Owen do.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:40
@Redrich: But it doesn’t help to play well in one game and then not be selected the next game. Take Owen for an example. What more should one do,after scoring a hat trick in Germany as a lone striker,in front of an one dimensional midfield five? You can make excuses for Ferguson only up to a certain point,but at a certain stage you’ll start saying “who am I kidding?”. He has never given Nani a fair chance,ever. He has never started 2 consecutive games since CQ left so I don’t see how that equates to being given a chance.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:41
@Red Ranter: RR – I’m not in finance, but I read the post on RoM, and I think that I understood it pretty well.
Had United bought Tevez for 25MM this year, it would not have shown up in the profit and loss calculation, as was mentioned in the article. Assuming that the contract would have been for 4 years, the United accountants would have depreciated his 25MM over the 4 years of the contract.
So in 2010 (I assume, I’m not sure how the fiscal years work) Tevez’s purchase would add 6.25MM to the “Depreciation and Amortization” line of the P&L. Likewise for 2011-2013. [note: because I don't work in finance, I do not know if a 'time value of money' adjustment is made for the following years -- if this is the case, the 2011-2013 numbers might be slightly higher than 6.25]
In this way the books account for a player’s fees over the entire length of his contract instead of only at the time that he was purchased, as presumably he is “paying back” the initial investment during his stay at the club.
This was particularly interesting information for me after the news about City’s huge loss over the past year. This loss includes very little in relation to the players that they’ve purchased in the past year. I assume that they’re on course to lose even more next year — unless they can sneak into the Champions League.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:49
@Jim: After some further thought, I suppose that the depreciation does not work as it does because “the player is paying back his investment” on the field, as I stated above.
It’s like buying a car. At the time you buy it, you have a car worth the asking price (in the case of Tevez, that would be 25MM). If you keep that car forever, eventually it will lost all of its value (when Tevez retires, he’s no longer worth anything, financially, to the club). So there needs to be a standardized way to account for the total value of the asset of the particular player to the club. This is done by depreciating his purchase fee over the years of his contract.
If he were to stay the 4 years of the initial contract, and then sign a new contract, he would no longer be adding to the total club depreciation. But at the time that he was sold (ie, Ronaldo this year), the value of the sale, minus the amount of his fee yet to be depreciated, would be the net profit.
This is logical and I’m glad that I know it now.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:59
@Grognard: I don’t think he is in the same class as Torres but most definitely in the same boat with Rooney. Last season he wasn’t exactly given a good shot at competing for the other striker spot,since SAF was busy trying to fit Berbatov in and figuring him out altogether. He did pretty well in his first season and once he got a run of games last season,namely in the Carling Cup and towards the end of the season he did great. I know I empathise with players a lot,but the truth is Ferguson,in my opinion,has screwed a great number of them esp over the last couple of seasons. He seems to be taking lessons and inspiration from Benitez. Look at Benayoun,who is clearly the best player at Liverpool so far this season and yet he can’t buy a spot in the starting 11. Benitez was also stubborn in playing Gerrard on the wing and as much as people despise Kuyt,he was never a winger but Benitez made him one. At least injuries have restricted him from tinkering too much,but he has already convinced his fan club consisting of one member(SAF) that,it’s the way to go.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:26
@Jay wire: I have no problem with Ferguson in the way he runs the team – he seems fair and will play and sit players in accordance to how I see their performance on the pitch.
He has made some odd decisions of late, and sitting Owen after his hattrick had me scratching my head. But my overall impression of MO before we signed him and at this present time, is that he has very little left in the tank. He is onboard with us just as insurance against injury.
As far as making excuses for SAF;- I never have and never will – and that goes for the players as well.
Ferguson has taken this club to heights that most fans can only dream of, and this year, with a squad made up of washed up old timers and mediocre youngsters, he has them over acheiving.
What I do have a problem with, is his insistence that we are good enough to compete, and that no further player additions are necessary.
This is a policy of immense folly and one that could hurt this club critically.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:00
@Grognard: Try five decades, mate.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:06
DEAR ALL,
If any one is interested in knowing how exactly the scheme of this BOND ISSUE is going to run then the most complete and authentic document will be the prospectus issued by Man UTD for the purpose. I am in possession of the SOFT COPY of the same 322 pager prospectus in .pdf form. I am sure one can get lot of info from it regarding our club, the way it runs, how this bond issue is planned and how proceeds can be utilized. If anyone here (of course other than me) have patience and interested in reading the 322 pager financial document then I am very much open to share the same….
January 13th, 2010 at 6:45
@Redrich: And you are to be applauded for it mate. Cheers!
January 13th, 2010 at 6:54
There’s a lot being written about the Glazer’s right now but one rumor that is circulating is especially beginning to piss me off. It’s this idea that Barca and Madrid are putting together 70 million bids for Wayne Rooney. What a load of bollocks. Rooeny is great but I wouldn’t pay more than 35 million for him and secondly, there is no way the Glazer’s could ever safely show themselves in England yet alone Manchester ever again if they dealt the country and the team’s golden boy. If they sold Rooney to a Spanish team that would be the day the official riots would start and the day their lives would be forfeit in England. Ridiculous to contemplate.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/01/12/1740550/barcelona-real-madrid-weigh-up-70m-bid-for-manchester-united?
January 13th, 2010 at 8:00
One of the comment from ROM which I found very interesting and unfortunately I don’t have lot of knowledge of the same….
Commenter from ROM quotes and paste;
About the television deal:]
“Florentino Perez goes on to clarify that “Real Madrid takes about 400 million euros a year, the fruit of three sources of income – a third from ticket sales, a third from television rights and a third from merchandising.” In 2006 Real signed a seven-year individual television deal with Media-pro worth roughly 1.1 billion euros.”
http://www.just-football.com/2009/06/real-madrid-revolution-galacticos.html
A quick Google calculates that 1.1 billion Euros = 986.864932 million British pounds! If we got a TV deal like Real’s we could fuck that debt off for good! And we wouldn’t even have to re-brand Old Trafford at all.
From a Guardian article: “In Spain, by contrast, the top clubs sell their TV rights individually, which means Barcelona and Real Madrid make hugely more than others in the same league. Here United will earn just 1.7 times the Premier League TV income of West Brom, while in Spain it has been estimated that Barça make 14 times the money of the bottom club.” (This is interesting…)
You read that? United, the champions, the best and most well-known team worldwide make just 1.7 times as much as the worst piece of shit in the League from the current deal. That’s ludicrous whichever way you slice it. Barca make 14 times as much as the Spanish equivalent of Hull or whoever, which is how it should be.
Can anybody put things in perspective here that how exactly the TV revenue arrangements works in UK????
January 13th, 2010 at 9:16
I just finished watching the 07/08 review dvd and I honestly cannot properly describe just how depressed I feel right now. My God what we had and what we have lost? It’s truly sad. Our pace, speed, aggression and movement off the ball was immense but most of all, Ronaldo was an absolute God that every United fan should bow and pray to every night before they go to bed, regardless of his departure to Madrid. There is no doubt in my mind that he is the greatest player I have seen since the great stars of the 70’s Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Rummeniggge and before them Pele and Best. The amount of goals that season was staggering but what you really notice in that highlight video is the sheer quality of the, 6 penalties and a hand full of easy tap ins and you still have 3o world class goals which I cannot believe were scored by one winger in an entire season. It made me want to cry. Watching how the team moved and seeing just how promising a player Nani was back then and how different he was and more aggressive makes you wonder just went wrong?
January 13th, 2010 at 10:05
@Grognard: I think there are many thinks which have gone wrong… I really wonder when this cloud of uncertainty is going to shed off. I am estimating very hard time ahead as a UNITED supporter… But guess what… Like as any other UNITED supporter we are going to ENDURE that isn’t it???
UNITED TILL DEATH….
January 13th, 2010 at 10:31
Is it me or has anyone seen Adebeyor’s interview on Sky about the cowards who attacked the Togo National team, heis wearing an Arsenal polo shirt.
January 13th, 2010 at 10:43
@Onkar: I think we get a percentage from the Premier League and Real and Barca get to negotiate their individually.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:20
@Stephen: Yeah.. I saw some pictures… Strange….
January 13th, 2010 at 11:21
@Stephen: Why can’t we go out and have a same model… What is the anomaly in that…
January 13th, 2010 at 11:26
@gator: If you don’t see that player, then YOU suddenly got fucking blind in your old age Fergie
.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:29
@Onkar: Death might not be very far away for our club with the fucking Glaziers running the debt asylum they created mate! It would serve them bloody right if it bancrupt them – arseholes!
January 13th, 2010 at 11:32
@Grognard: I can answer the dilemma to Nani’s dilemma mate, and its not the innate ability he has, its its a disease called Fergie tinkerman-itis!
January 13th, 2010 at 11:40
@Onkar: The Premier league control and neg the TV deals, they are giving Portsmouth’s TV money direct to the clubs the owe transfer fees to.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:41
@CraigMc: Either play him or sell him, no point lingering in the stiffs.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:42
@Redrich: If thata the case, why is scholesy still playing, Red Nev and ROONEY after some of his shite performances eh? Weve been busy blaming the players, but maybe the true blmae should be Fergie and his shite team formations, inability to gel players to make an efficient fight machine playing together, and square peg continuing round holes syndrome. After all, Tevez is proving at Shitty eastlands that he is a very good player in right position and formation. Nani proves it when playing for portugal, and I believe that we got the 07/08 class season Groggy is taling about, because SAF probably threw all the players into a Kalaidoscope and just let them fall wherever – in other words more down to bloody good fortune than any expertise with Fergie
January 13th, 2010 at 11:44
@Stephen: You are such a fucking genious mate – unfortunately Fergie isn’t!
January 13th, 2010 at 11:48
@Jay wire: SAF got rid of Ronaldo and Tevez for 2 reasons - money. No matter how much the man protesteth to the opposite, who will believe anything SAF says now, because he has lied to us through his fucking back teeth about the Ronaldo money. Any of you who still believe SAF are so fucking gullible or in denial!
January 13th, 2010 at 11:54
@CraigMc: I am not sure why he keeps saying he has £60m to spend, we are not stupid and knoe he hasn’t.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:08
@Stephen: Because its his mission in life Stephen to LIE TO US FANS AND THE MEDIA! I respect the record of success SAF has brought to the club definately, but I will never respect SAF as a man and good character anymore.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:10
Tevez needs regular games and he needs the confidence of his boss and his ego massaged. He did not get that last season with us and predictably his performances suffered. He is not naturally skillful or naturally fit, so without regular games his touch disappears and he is ineffective. And with all strikers lack of confidence affects their game, but it is doubly true for Tevez because he has that South American macho insecurity. I imagine it feels pretty crappy when instead of making the Tevez transfer permanent Fergie splashed out £30 million on Berbatov and promptly dropped Tevez despite his hot pre-season form.
Like many players we mismanaged him and Im glad he has found pastures new and is showing everyone what he is capable of.
Fergie doesn’t really know how to rotate the squad properly. Some players can cope with a squad rotation system. Others need to be played regularly to perform. Personally I think the best way to work a squad rotation system is to play at least eight or nine of your best eleven and only make a few changes to keep players fresh and cope with injuries. Instead we are playing a different central midfield every single match and a different central defence (admittedly here our hand is forced by injury).
I don’t believe we will get extra funds, but I think now we have sorted out a refinancing deal, the Glazers will give us a bit of money to spend in January. Of course Fergie won’t spend it because he cannot find “value”.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:11
@Jay wire: Agree with you 100%
January 13th, 2010 at 12:20
@Redrich: I can’t believe you wrote that.
Fair? Performances on the pitch? Really?
“and this year, with a squad made up of washed up old timers and mediocre youngsters, he has them over acheiving”
Because he seems to get the best out of this bunch, we should all turn a blind eye to his f/ups? People seem to forget that HE is the sole reason that we are left with this sorry bunch.
I agree that he has done more for this club than any one alive. But, as he always states, ‘No one is greater than the club Manchester United’. That should include him. Keane was good. When he started to ‘hurt the team’, regardless of all the good he has done, he got shipped off. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.
Problem is, it’s not only been this season. It’s been a few seasons in a row now. It appears that some people are under the impression that we wole up one morning this season and sucked all of a sudden. Actually, we’ve been becomming worse and worse for some time now.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:20
@colver: Bar Tevez and he is on a streak who has left us and been much better than they were with us?
January 13th, 2010 at 12:23
@Karl: Bar the trophies we have won over the past few seasons, two titles, Champions League and League Cup maybe we are spoilt?
January 13th, 2010 at 12:24
BTW, anyone still respect David Gill in this whole financial debacle, because he led us into this with his eyes wide open? He refused Glazer’s at first attempt, so why didn’t he just refuse end of, and then look for far more financially sound owners! Gill has sold us LOCK STOCK AND BARRELL down the river, and I just don’t understand why most of you are not as raving made as I am against him! As a so called top financier , he has failed us miserably, and put us into life time HOCK! We are all blaming the Glazers, but Gill and the board went into this whole thing knowing it would put us under a pile of international debt, unpayable in the long run debt, unless we receive a miracle. Why are most of you so blase about it? I don’t get it?
January 13th, 2010 at 12:32
@colver: Mate how do you come to that conclusion? We have FAR from settled our financial situation, because according to all the top world financiers we are not as profitable as so many other big companies who are looking to sell bonds, our return would not be as good to them, because we cannot guarantee continued success on the field! That is the latest reports – that may derail any United attempts to sell bonds!
January 13th, 2010 at 12:39
@Stephen: We are hardly spoiled when all our assets are sold from under us Staephen!
January 13th, 2010 at 12:46
@CraigMc: Ronaldo wanted to leave too mate, I agree the club is run awfully but constantly blaming the manager is unfair as regardless of what the purists say he doing a good job, certainly with regards to the return of trophies and yes the players he has signed recently have not worked but we are still doing well and I for one would not rule us out of winning more this season.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:46
@Stephen: I agree that we are spoilt. Who spoilt us? We are spoilt for trophies, and we are spoilt for entertainment. Truth is, that is our standard. Should we now lower our standard?
The fact that he spoilt us has nothing to do with the fact that he is also responsible for the current state of affairs. His decisions, coupled with his lies have led to this.
I don’t deny that he got us all he trophies, nor that he is the greatest footballing manager ever to live. I am gratefull for him for that.
Thing is, he is getting old. Fact. He is no spring chicken. With his age, he seems to be losing his edge.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:58
I just have one question regarding the discussions on United’s debt. It seems like it is now the main story everywhere.
My question is:
What exactly is the purpose of it?
If we are not planning some sort of plan to get rid of the debt ourselves, or take-over the club, then WHY are we discussing it? It’s becomming more and more depressing. Not only because of the huge amounts mentioned, but also the fact that we cannot, or will not do anything about it.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:59
@Karl: Maybe but he is playing the political game matey, not upsetting the apple cart as he is close to completing his lifes work of “knocking Liverpool of their er perch” and nothing will stop him getting there.
In lossing his edge I don’t agree, we are playing a less fluid style and we lack flair but flair players sre ecpensive and has fallen ot with Nani so we lack that spark. The young players like Anderson have not stepped up and lack the heart to play for United so he is trying to grind out results, I don’t agree with the tactic but understand it.
Also maintaining the standard we have foe so long is phenomenal and the legacy he has maintained is amazing, so what do we do now sack him or ask him so stand down. And with Keane he fucked off the entire squad and only managed 10 games for Celtic so he already was well past his sell by date.
January 13th, 2010 at 13:11
Sheringhom : Man Utd are missing Tevez more than Ronaldo.
Is he mad???
January 13th, 2010 at 13:39
Yes, He is.
Recently released Opta Index stats show that Van Der Sar is the best goalkeeper in the world. Casillas is 2nd and Sorensen is third. How differently may our season have gone with him in goal and Vidic/Rio in front of him….
January 13th, 2010 at 13:43
Also, in a rumour round up, John Fleck (18) and Danny Wilson (18) have both refused to sign contracts at Rangers and we are in line to snap them up, having previously had both of them watched. Fleck is a ST and Wilson is a CB. They can move for free at the End of next season (and organise a move in Jan), so Rangers will be forced to sell cheap in the summer to get anything for them. Both are apparently very promising.
January 13th, 2010 at 13:49
@ Traverse :
What is the position of Grog’s favourites in that rating
January 13th, 2010 at 13:58
Also, this bond stuff is likely to take weeks rather than months to sort, and interest seems to be high enough that we may be able to raise £700mil rather than the £500mil we are aiming for.
January 13th, 2010 at 14:11
@owen: The article I read that in was an all time ratings thingymabob. Current ratings are
1. Van Der Sar (United)
2. Carrasso (Bordeaux)
3. Joe Hart (Birmingham)
4. Sorensen (Stoke)
5. Dida (Milan)
6. Lloris (Lyon)
7. Given (City)
8. Chech (Chelsea)
9. Casillas (Madrid)
10 Ruffier (Monaco)
Selected others
24. Frey (Fiorentina)
33. Neuer (Schalke)
51. Adler (Leverkusen)
97. Kuszczak (United)
VDS is the only United play in the overall top 20 players. Roney is 25th, Scholes is 81st, Valencia 93rd and Berbatov 95th.
January 13th, 2010 at 14:28
Stephen I agree we usually sell players when they are on the wane. Obviously it is different with Tevez because we only ever had him on loan and his fee was a stumbling block, and with Ronaldo our hand was forced by the size of the transfer fee and the players desire to leave.
But then again we sold Rossi and Pique and they both turned into really good players. The same is likely to happen with Rossi. If we sold Berbatov Im sure he would do better at a lesser club, because I think he is overwhelmed by the size of our club and not a good fit to our style of play. So Im not sure the old story that we sell at the right time will apply in future.
CraigMc, if we refinanced our debt it means we made it more manageable. Otherwise why bother? Therefore I think our financial situation has improved. By implication I think that will mean we will have a bit more cash to spend. Also it is worth remembering that last year the world was in recession and that was bound to have an impact on our revenues. So I think things will improve.
I agree we still seem to have excessive interest payments which are eating into our profits. It is also worrying that the Glazers borrow from the club. But I think we will be able to resume our £25 million transfer budget for next summer. The question is whether Fergie has the acumen to make every penny count or will he waste our money on another flop.
January 13th, 2010 at 14:33
@colver: Spot on mate on all counts Rossi needed games and the Prem also is more designed around big strikers with pace and power loosing both him and Pique though was a shame because Pique does really now look a good, oh oh how we need him now.
January 13th, 2010 at 16:41
@Karl: Learning about our financial situation could shed some light why we didn’t reinvest the Ronaldo money and why we are dragging feet in this transfer window!
January 13th, 2010 at 16:56
@Karl: “he seems to be losing his edge.”
Can’t you do any better than that mate??
The man that is the most successful manager in modern history deserves a concise critique, don’t you think?
- Is he all bad??
- Just a little bad??
- Why is he bad??
I suggest that when you get over your anger, you post an intelligent comment that has some logic to it.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:18
@Stephen: After what’s happened, I seriously doubt the man woke up and consciously considered what clothing he would wear so that he could create controversy amongst the many who hadn’t been shot at.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:23
@CraigMc: And now it’s more clear than ever that the reason Tevez was let go and even criticized was because United was never even close to affording the money needed to keep him. So might as well slag him to the press and make him look like he is greedy and worthless so that they don’t have to explain why they couldn’t afford to keep him.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:29
@CraigMc: I for one was not sure of what Gill’s role was in the sale of the team to the Glazer’s. Being Canadian it sounds very strange when a General Manager of a sports franchise is involved in the selling of a team.m That is not part of the job description as they are not owners of the team and therefore have no power in selling the club. So as far as Gill is concerned, I have no idea what role he played if any. I was always led to believe that a board of public ownership was who answered the call from the Glazer’s and that group as a collective are to blame, and not Gill.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:36
@Stephen: What bothers me of Ronaldo’s departure is a couple of strange things. First off, if I was a player dreaming to go to Madrid, why would I sign a contract that went to 2012? I would be shooting myself in the foot knowing that I tied my best years to a club that I didn’t want to play for anymore. Secondly, I think the fact that the League and the referees in this League made it very uncomfortable and untenable for Ronaldo to stay. For me he was the most persecuted player in the League for his alleged whining and diving when in fact he had been the number one target of dirty play and missed calls for fouls during his stay. This fact and the changing climate at OT and the change of tactics from fast and attacking to slow and plodding may have forced his hand and made him realize that his chance for personal hardware and career advancement lay in jeopardy if he stays in this league and with this team. Lets face it, the club put too much emphasis on him to perform and the league had placed a target on his back and never did a thing to protect the best asset the game had ever seen in England. And we wonder why he left? Honestly, I would leave too if I knew that leaving would add years to my career, possibly save me from more leg surgery and where I could play the game the way it’s supposed to be played.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:39
@Grognard: It was an observation mate jeez, he did also manage to get his ear rings in as well it would say
January 13th, 2010 at 17:42
@Grognard: Absolutely, even as far as I know in any plc the ownership and management is totally different part of the business… So I am not sure what exactly he meant by Gill being the guilty party….
January 13th, 2010 at 17:42
@Karl: The bottom line when it comes to Fergie is that no matter what he has accomplished he is the manager of a professional football team that has a reputation for excellence and that excellence is expected year after year. So all the past is the past and all that concerns fans these day as it should is WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR US LATELY? It may seem mean spirited and ungrateful but in the pro game you are only as good as your last game and based on our last game, Fergie isn’t very good. He needs to understand that sports legends greater than even him have gotten the sack in the pro game after they seemed to let the game pass them by. Scotty Bowman in hockey, Tom Landry and Don Shula in football have all gotten the axe despite being absolute legends in their sport. Sports recycle their legends from time to time. Coaches come and go and legendary ones make it into the Hall of Fame but there is no room for them in the game if they stop having success. Fergie is at a crossroads in his career. He needs to wake the fuck up and realize a few things and then decide which road to take. As I see it he took the road of selling out to the owners of that team and that will inevitably lead to his Waterloo.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:42
@Grognard: You can dress his departure up as much as you like in his favour, he wanted to leave he was desperate to leave the season before last, Fergie asked him to stay for one more which he did, Madrid was his dream.
You simply cannot blame the club or the manager that he wanted out.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:52
@Traverse: A great defensive record is still not answering the question of where our goals come from and how we are supposed to break down defenses when we have no creative players or strong finishers. It’s not just about results, it’s about the entertainment value and about attacking football having been exorcised from this team. Why do always come back to defense. Fuck defense. I don’t watch this team for 1-0 victories. I watch this team for 4-0 victories. If I wanted 1-0 victories I would have beeN a Chelsea fan considering my favorite player Ballack plays for them. It’s not just about winning. To some of you that is all that matters. It’s like watching a tv series because it’s tops in the rating despite the fact that it sucks as entertainment. Why would i subject myself to anything that bored me to death. My life goes on whether United win a game 1-0 or not. It’s watching a game and having it turn into an entertaining spectacle that made me want to be a United supporter many years ago, long before they were guaranteed winners.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:58
@owen: Useless statistical analysis based on clean sheets and nothing more. The fact that last year especially, EVDS hardly had to make a save in many games is lost on the idiots who put this statistical crap together. When it actually comes to judging the quality of goalkeepers, I would like to see it based on two factors, the first being save percentage and the second being quality of saves. The second is a hard one to judge but the first one should uncover the fact that for every ten saves a Casillas or a Neuer have to make, EVDS probably had to make four saves. THis also does not address all the other skills that a goalkeeper has to be good at in order for a team to maintain a great defensive mark. Saves are only part of the total package.
January 13th, 2010 at 17:59
@Traverse: Sorry mate but it’s an absolutely laughable parody of a list.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:03
@Stephen: I realize it was an observation but I also think it was making a mountain out of a molehill considering the state of affairs. Over the years he probably accumulated a lot of Arsenal apparel and is not about to throw it all in the trash because despite the fans, he still cares for the club and his old teammates. It’s like the photo of Ronaldo at practice with Madrid and he was wearing a United baseball cap. Why do we want to read more into that than there is? Stirring up controversy after a man was just shot at because he was wearing his former team’s shirt seems rather odd to me is all.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:06
Like it or not we are a defensive team. We only have enough firepower to score a goal a game, two if we are lucky. So it is essential that we do not concede. That is why we have been doing badly lately, because with our defence destabilised by injuries and rotation we have become vulnerable and once we go behind we do not have the players to get us back in the game.
Essentially teams know that if they can get an early goal they can sit back and defend and we will struggle to break them down. In the past we had sufficient firepower that we often scored early which forced teams to attack and then we used to rip them apart on the counter attack and score three or four goals.
It is depressing to watch.
You play to your strengths, so it is no surprise that we have adopted a defensive style. Just as in the past when our attack was strong but our defense was suspect we adopted an attacking style hoping to outscore the opposition.
Our style will only change and our football will only become entertaining when we correct this imbalance and strengthen midfield and attack.
Managers choose the tactics to fit the players. So if we want to change the tactics we need to change the players.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:09
@Stephen: I realize that but I do believe that circumstances led to his leaving the club sooner than he even wanted to. Why sign a contract to 2012 when you have no intention of honoring it? I think initially he had full intentions of honoring it and then something happened that changed things. Yes Madrid seducing him was probably number one on the list but I honestly think the abuse he was getting from players and refs led to his self preservationist decision. But I also think that had the club maintained an attacking fast style of football last season, he may have stayed. The fact that often he was placed as the lone striker up front and had to track back more may have turned him off of staying because he wasn’t enjoying his football anymore. Just a thought as I see things.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:09
@Grognard: It is a culture thing in football matey, I agree but it was an odd selection to wear none the less.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:11
@Grognard: We offerd him more money in a desperate bid to keep and and probably that wooed him for a second or so and contracts mean nothing in football, but his hear was already in Madrid deep down and tactics had nothing to do with it.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:13
@Stephen: Yes it was but again I emphasize the fact that I find it strange that we would be noticing such a thing considering what the man just experienced. He could be wearing a visible diaper for all I care. Being interviewed shortly after ducking for your life makes me feel that whatever he was wearing is of little concern. He could be wearing a t-shirt that says “Man City Sucks” and based on the situation, I do not think it is a big deal. Again, just as I see things. Doesn’t really mean anything other than I just didn’t see it as a big deal.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:14
@Stephen: And you are probably right but all I am saying is that there may have been factors that drove him to Madrid faster than even he expected, and it was not just the money.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:14
@Grognard: Signing a new contract is not always an intent to stay put.
Firstly it increased his wages and secondly it gave us more leverage with him in the transfer market.
Good for both club and player, but never a promise that he would stay until ‘12.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:16
@Grognard: I agree in the scheme of things it means nothing, and you hardly could not notice the large Arsenal logo on the shirt bro, but again I find it odd he wore it but means nothing.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:17
@colver: Your last paragraph sums up exactly how I feel about this team!
January 13th, 2010 at 18:18
@Grognard: He left a year LATER than he wanted and I give the club credit for keeping him that that long, everyone is on downer currently about the club but they really could do very little to keep him and the money is great I am sure for Ronaldo but his desire to join them wasn’t soley fiancial.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:26
We sold Ronaldo for £80 million. That is a very very good fee for a player who wanted to leave the club. If it wasn’t for our bloody owners, that money could have been used to buy three or four good players who would walk into our first team and we’d be infinitely better and more entertaining to watch.
Elsewhere I read that Ljajic is on the verge of joining Fiorentina who already had a lot of success in signing Jovetic.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:35
I think our tactics did have something to do with Ronakdo leaving. He is the ultimate attacking player yet fergie was shying away from attacking. Especially in the big games, usually fergies plan was to shut up shop then let Ronaldo try and score on his own. Then when he couldn’t deliver people start calling Ronaldo a big game bottler again. Our first leg against Barca was a classic example. Ronaldo was terrorizing the barca defense for about the first 10 minutes, then Rooney and tevez reverted back to defending and that was that.
January 13th, 2010 at 18:40
@Johnsom33: Of course it didn’t that total specualation, he always wanted to leave and join Real in fairness to him he has never hid that blaming tactics is taking a swipe at the manager for me and is a low blow.
January 13th, 2010 at 19:51
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/394914632?-11193
(Is Tevez the New Cantona?)
I have not laughed more in my like than after reading this.
January 13th, 2010 at 20:21
so sad they dont have their own legend to compare him to.
January 13th, 2010 at 20:27
@Grognard: Yeah but if we’re tight at the back it matters a whole lot bloody less!
With VDS, Vidic and Rio at the back we don’t concede that goal against Birmingham. Not a chance. We win the game one nil, and to be honest we should have scored 3 in the first half alone. We won many games 1 or 2 nil over the last three seasons, and that’s down to not conceding.
The best teams are built on a solid back.
In other news, Ljajic has signed for Fiorentina (not exactly a European giant) for a deal that could eventually be worth £7million. Not £10million upfront like it was for us!
January 13th, 2010 at 20:48
@Onkar: I can tell you what I mean Mr Rolling eyes without cause – it has been well reported in the media the last couple of days that Gill was the foreleader for the clubs part, and that GILL refused Glazers first time round – so don’t eye roll the messenger until you know – OK
– rolling eyes right back at you 
.
January 13th, 2010 at 20:48
Hope that Ljajic becomes bloody world class.
January 13th, 2010 at 21:07
@NicoQB: Why becuase we havn’t signed him? I hope he turns out to be shite
January 13th, 2010 at 21:23
@Grognard: I think I’m pretty sure Ferguson knew all along Ronaldo was going. Ronaldo probably saw what commotion he caused by the way he conducted himself in the summer before his departure. So it was most likely a mutual deal between the club that was resigned to losing him eventually and Ronaldo, and that the best way out of this is to sign a contract that ensures, if he were to leave, the club would get good compensation. Win-win for both parties. The only tricky thing for Fergie was to talk him into staying a season longer than he wanted.
Signing yourself to a long contract is never shooting yourself in the foot because all players and managers these days know it’s futile keeping a player against his will. Player power is far more these days.
January 13th, 2010 at 22:26
Liverpool got Maxi on a free transfer. No doubt the Spanish connection helped, but if we are that hard up for cash why weren’t we after him. He cannot be much worse than Obertan and Gibson and Anderson.
January 13th, 2010 at 22:45
@colver: Yeah, and Everton got Donavan on loan. He’s got to be better than Macheda or Wellbeck and perhaps even Owen!!
January 13th, 2010 at 22:46
@Red Ranter: and not possible at citeh before acn
January 13th, 2010 at 22:53
@gator: Of course it is possible. He’s become the main man under Mancini. Adebayor or no Adebayor. All players take time to adapt to a new club.
January 13th, 2010 at 22:53
@Redrich: well then manucho has been scoring as well should we consider letting him go a mistake as well?
January 13th, 2010 at 22:54
@Red Ranter: he is forsure main man now. i never liked ade but i wouldnt wish his troubles on anyone
January 13th, 2010 at 22:58
reading have just scored to make it 2-1 in the 100th min vs LOOSERPOOL
January 13th, 2010 at 23:00
For what it’s worth, it must be said: one of the joys of this season – watching Liverpool fail, like clockwork.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:01
@Grognard: agree
January 13th, 2010 at 23:02
@owen: What they meant to say but the typist was too much of an idiot was that Tevez was their new can of tuna.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:03
@Traverse: No mate, it still matters a lot because like I and others have said, we do not follow this club for 0-0 or 1-0 results. We want to be entertained and we want to see lots of goals. 1-0 only matters if you are only results oriented. I say to hell with the result if I am being bored to death.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:04
@Redrich: 5 decades are you using a typewriter and a fax machine to post
jk
January 13th, 2010 at 23:10
@Grognard: I did the same thing last week and it is sad for sure. Our current batch of players are good enough to win the prem and compete in europe but THAT team was miles ahead of everyone bc of ronnie.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:10
@Red Ranter: Personally, I am too consumed and concerned with our failure to give a rats arse about them. And since I have never feared them I am actually saddened that they are doing so poorly because it makes them less of a threat to us and because it may force the sacking of Benitez who I want to stay because I despise him so. What’s happening to Liverpool is similar to what’s happening to us except that they never had the bench to call upon that we did and thus we have 10 more points than they do because of it. Otherwise, they are in the same sack of shit we are inhabiting with poor owners, and a squad that has been decimated by injuries and defections. They may be scousers but damn it I like my bitches with a tail, not completely useless and without fight.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:15
@CraigMc: I thik he means; available in jan and for less than 50m for a striker and with his quote about roony getting injured wed be in trouble means that he has finally acknowledged berbas shortcomings.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:21
@Traverse: I doubt we would all be discussing high finance if that were the case
January 13th, 2010 at 23:22
@gator: It truly breaks your heart to see that dvd compilation not because of the trophies we won but how we won them. Ronaldo was truly a God, no doubt about it but Nani, Tevez, Rooney and others looked like they were firing on cylinders. Based on that video alone Nani could have been sold for 30 million just based on the quality of his goals and numerous assists. Why was he so much better back then? Because Fergie allowed him more freedom to assert himself and play his game and he was much more aggressive and would run at defenders. Something he did none of last year or early this season.
I was taken back by not just our pace but our movement off the ball. This is the biggest influence I think of having Calos Queiroz as a number 2. He tactically got the whole thing working better as a whole but our movement off the ball was not just strong but it was instinctive decisive and fast and that freed up openings for players to exploit. Tevez and Rooney worked much better together and our wingers were very aggressive. Our central midfielders were still a little to defensive minded but as long as you had a combo of Giggs/Ronaldo or Nani/Ronaldo that was ok. Now we have a combination of Park/Valencia or Obertan/Valencia and that I’m afraid just doesn’t cut it. You cannot find another Ronaldo so the idea then is to change the way we do things and put more emphasis on buying an attacking central midfielder who can cause problems through the middle rather than wide since they are easier to find than a 40 goal scoring winger.
What is missing is our mojo but what is also missing is our audacity. The audacity to go out and demand a Lio Messi with the money from Ronaldo. Why not? Since when are we a selling team? At least we could have bought three world class players with that money and basically reloaded with a new team and new attacking approach. Instead we were taken out back to the woodshed and raped.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:22
@Grognard: Small mercies, friend. Small mercies.
And I think Benitez has backed himself into an unsackable position right now. It will be far too expensive for them to sack him. There’s an article on a Liverpool site where I read about it, and the fact is: currently Benitez is in a pretty strong position regardless of his failure this season.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:24
pool loose
January 13th, 2010 at 23:36
@Grognard: I still expect us to buy world class
It was said by many at the beginning of the season that this would be the transition season to see who if any of our young and fringe players could step up and become the class that we needed. I do wish that the vds and defensive injuries hadn’t happened so that our attacking players would have had a solid line behind them so they could worry only about killing the opposition but they have not had that luxury. And without our full defense they had little chance.
I fully expect david silva and benzema to be united players in the summer. no smiley
Watching that DVD i realize we ARE spoiled. Ronny was a master class and we wont see another like him for some time. I only hope that we can pull off some beautiful footie and win some games and with it silver until we do.
January 13th, 2010 at 23:44
@Grognard: Ronnie pulled the performances out of players and could lift the team to a different level with his brilliance on the pitch(not to paper over his faults but…)
United see players like this more than most teams deserve Law, Charlton, best, cantona, and even becks and RVN in their day.
United will see another and another after that. I truly believe it.
United till death
January 13th, 2010 at 23:48
@Red Ranter: good for us
January 14th, 2010 at 0:13
@Red Ranter: Todays loss will not help his standing any.
January 14th, 2010 at 0:15
Anybody know who the number 7 named Cole is for our youth team at present? Is he Andy Coles son, because he is not a bad little player. But I thought Andy Coles son was signed onto Cities books????
January 14th, 2010 at 0:16
@gator: And just how are we to buy these world class players when we do not have two nickels to rub together? I do not like our debt being so high and then borrowing more money to buy players on top of that. What I want is the Glazer’s driven out of town much more than I want new players. Let those cunts leave and lets then start picking up the pieces.
January 14th, 2010 at 0:19
@gator: Your living in the past my friend. You want to believe such things yet you completely ignore the situation we are presently facing and you hope that just by closing your eyes, the problem will disappear and we will then go buy players and become dominant again. It doesn’t work that way. As long as the Glazer’s are running this team into the ground, expect the future to look as bad or even worse than Liverpool. Talking about the past was also talking about a time when this team was owned and operated properly. That is no longer the case.
January 14th, 2010 at 0:19
@Grognard: I’m desperately hoping Liverpool fans are thick enough to NOT get it.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:08
Being amongst the minority of UTD fans who actually went to OT to protest the Glazers aggressive take over I still take little comfort from being proved right about just how damaging threir ownership would be. I even tried FC United for a while but it obviously wasn’t the same and although I get to a few games on spare tickets I always have the feeling that the club has been stolen from under our feet. This is even when we win the league and CL, it’s always there, a feeling of not really being connected to my local club. The one that plays and SHOULD represent the interests of my local community (I’m a Salford lad and believe me there are VERY few Citeh fans in Salford.
I suppose what really rankles with me is the fact that since football sold out to the highest bidder with the launch of the PL Man Utd have had their best run of success and been the most dominant force in English football. I’ve only been able to enjoy it in a SUBJECTIVE sense as opposed to actually feeling a part of it.
I still don’t fully see why the club cannot be owned by its fans. If Barca can do it then why can’t we? Our fan base far outstrips theirs. It just needs organisation and the WILL to be there. WHY isn’t it possible? It may be ESSENTIAL in the long run. As one thing is for sure – we cannot keep allowing those who don’t love the club (or even football for that matter) and have never set foot in Old Trafford to come and exploit our fanbase and history solely in order to line their own pockets. Call me an old romantic but I think a huge sea change is in order.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:22
@gator: There’s a reason I bank with Wells Fargo, mate.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:02
@Grognard: If there was a way to pry it away from them i’d like to know how!
The best hope for the long term, is a very rich and crazy sugar daddy, in the meantime we just need to hope that the Bond issue takes, and that SAF starts to replace our dead wood piece by piece!
January 14th, 2010 at 6:59
@Grognard: We’ve spent the last 3 seasons winning the league by winning games 1-0 or 2-0. When teams had their one or two chances they wouldn’t go in. VDS would pull something off, or Vidic and Rio would simply not let them past.
Without these 3, we do look more suspect, and more teams this season have started with 2 up top against us than the last 3 combined. They knew there was no point before!
January 14th, 2010 at 7:53
@Red Ranter:
January 14th, 2010 at 7:54
@Redrich: RIOTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS. I also like the use of baseball bats.
January 14th, 2010 at 7:56
@Traverse: Still, that has nothing to do with the major issue at hand which is we are not playing entertaining fast paced attacking football. Until we do that how good or how bad our defense is interests me very little as I personally would rather lose 3-4 than draw 0-0.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:37
@Grognard: May I suggest cricket bats instead? Lots more meat, more easily available in England. And certainly higher probability due to its width that you won’t miss.
One of the iconic uses of cricket bats was in the Big Lebowski, of all movies.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:36
@themec: I agree that the club should belong to the fans like Barca and Real. People might say it is a fairy-tale wishfull thinking idea, but I do believe we should do something about it. Complaining about the edebt is not helping jack unless we intend to do something about it. All it does is contribute to our depression. I don’t think we have to go into any more depth about how we can’t afford players. We all know that is the case. Why do we need to try and prove the obvious?
Rioting just for the sake of getting the owners out also wont mean jack because with what confidence will new owners buy the club? (they might feel that the fans will move against them as well in similiar fashion when the going gets tough).
I say, lets strart a trust and contribute. (I would do it, but I am currently in South Africa. I would however contribute to the venture). When it comes down to it, then we can force the owners to sell to us by boycotting, etc. I thought about it for a while and believe it is very much possible. I’m sure we can come up with a proper strategy/business plan for this.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:40
@Grognard: Ahhhh. Remember the United vs Barca games of old? The “We’ll score more goals than you” mentality? Oh how I miss that.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:49
@colver: I don’t quite get this Llajic thing. I thought we signed him when we signed Tosic?
Was that also not the excuse people gave when I criticised getting Tosic ‘urgently’ in Jan and not playing him. People claimed that he was here to help Llajic settle in???
I’m confused.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:31
I am very surprised that there is not a lot of noise here regarding the Joe Cole issue. I always thought he is one of the real good and skill player that England have produced in recent time. And my god if things remain unchanged then he is available for free. I mean not a bad punt considering he is for free. I know he is demanding salary of 120K but that is manageable considering that we are going to free up the money from Tosic, NANI and possibly Rednev, EVDS and Scholes. So will have lot of saving as far as salaries can concern and that would ideally allow us that leeway to afford his salaries. And as far as playing position is concern i think he can straight away fit into the left side of the midfield irrespective of whether we are playing 3 man MF or 4. So for me if possible he is worth a try….
January 14th, 2010 at 11:27
@Karl: Maybe United fans should raise funds to buy their own players, and not allow Glazer to get hold of any of the money
. What I mean is we get 78,000 fans to fill OT most weeks – right? Everyone just donate one quid each, and we have 78,000 quid for players 
. Now multiply that by all the worldwide United fans and BINGO? Am I taking thru my Karzi or what? Any suggestions guys about raising our own funds that have nothing to do with the money grabbing BASTARDS Glazer family?
January 14th, 2010 at 11:29
I do realise that this would have to be duplicated every week to start getting suitable funds together!
January 14th, 2010 at 11:31
We have millions of worldwide United fans, so I am sure we could start raising funds by all of us clubbing together, or am I just making silly suggestions?
January 14th, 2010 at 11:32
OK – I have wild dreams – so what?
January 14th, 2010 at 12:08
@CraigMc: Only problem I see with that is that it will only help enriching the Glaziers. Now they don’t even need to fork out for players and can go on withdrawing funds from United whilst at the same time getting into more and more elaborate schemes to place us further into debt.
I say, let’s start with “Project: Fan Take-over”.
Think about it:
1. Start an organisation
2. Spread the word (start here on Red Rants)
3. Arrange people to ‘pledge’ money
4. Take the ‘pledge offer’ to the Glaziers
5. Force their hand (boycots, riots if required)
6. Raise the cash
7. BUY THE CLUB
Whallah! we have a FAN-OWNED club.
Simple really.
(I believe that if you’re going to dream, dream BIG).
January 14th, 2010 at 12:13
Mutiny on the Bounty
January 14th, 2010 at 12:15
@Karl: @CraigMc: I will stick in a tenner!
January 14th, 2010 at 12:15
If you think about it, the amount we have to raise up-front might be much less than we think. It will mean that we take-over the debt ourselves, but at least then it will do justice in dicussing the debts on forums like this.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:16
@Stephen: What do you mean you will stick in a tenner????
You will need to run the books for us!
January 14th, 2010 at 12:20
Grognard can do the negotiations with the Glaziers. That way he can bitch-slap Malcolm when he’s done.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:41
@Karl: It would be a pleasure, if Grognard bitch slapped Glazier I would personally fly to Canada and buy him a beer or 20!!
January 14th, 2010 at 13:00
@Red Ranter: Yes but I think they are a little harder to swing from above the shoulder don’t you think? No, when you want to make a statement nothing beats a good Louisville Slugger for getting the message across.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:02
How much of their own money did the Glaziers invest?
January 14th, 2010 at 13:09
@Karl: I agree. For me a group like MUST who were formed a long time ago and who speak for many a fan against the Glazer’s should also be turned into a non profit organization that can form a trustee fund for donations. Very difficult to do and organize but I for one would love to see the club taken over by the fans and for the fans. Talk about the Carrington training facility being sold and even Old Trafford are the last straw. My God, I am advocating major revolution and anarchy against the Glazer’s. They must go and they must go now. What I would like to see is a number of high traffic demonstrations be organized by a group of concerned fans in Manchester to protest the ownership. From there leaders need to be selected as communicators and organizers.
I swear as God is my witness, that if I lived in the Manchester area that I would try to start some kind of crusade to get the fans to all join together to topple this wicked and disgusting regime. I wish the fans who go to the games would all listen to one voice of reason and together boycott the next game and send a clear message that they are willing to sacrifice their entertainment for the cause. Anything to get rid of that evil and disgusting family. Passion and commitment is needed by all fans and a drastic plan of action is required to get the message across to the Glazer’s that their ownership of the club is no longer wanted, respected or tolerated.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:22
@Karl: To painful to remember really. What bothers me is that I do not think United’s fans are fewer or less passionate than Barca’s or Madrid’s yet for whatever reason fan ownership in Spain not only works but is clearly the model for true success in the game. The fans form a board of elected officials who do their bidding and who survive by the good graces of the fans depending on how the team performs. No different than governments in a democratic country. What needs to be done is a group of fans needs to contact several strong businessmen and organizers and have them form a board for a takeover bid. A Florentino Perez type with deep pockets who can also recruit other strong and financially successful local business people and through that formation also then start recruiting members (fans) but accepting donations and offering percentage of ownership depending on the amount donated. Start a trust fund and let it grow and then when the time is right go to the media and and then try a takeover.
A takeover by the fans is impossible unless local business leaders and men with financial clout are the leaders. But it can be done and it should be done. I am calling for those types of Mancunians out there who can band together and create the group who can in theory topple the present regime by offering to not only buy the team but also pay off the entire debt. It does not have to be a permanent takeover either. Rescue the team and then sell it for a strong profit to a rich Middle Eastern group for example and then give all the investors their money back with percentages of the profit. Show the world that if and when needed, no owner can escape the demands of a strong and well organized fan base that has the leaders and the capabilities to wrestle control from any owner who does not do right by the team. Ah to dream the impossible dream.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:30
@Karl: They let him go mate because they realized they could not afford to pay him. They won’t admit that but the news about the club’s financial trouble that has come out just this week is all the roof one needs to understand why a player like that was cut loose. They could not warrant paying an unproven player that money under the present financial circumstances. My God, we are in a worse situation the Liverpool because of that debt. Where Liverpool’s owners are trying to make the deal for a new stadium United’s owners are looking to sell Old Trafford and the training facility. I mean it’s getting that desperate. Their irresponsible purchase of this club when they were not financially capable of handling the purchase has got to be one of the great injustices ever committed in a capitalist free market economy. How these jackals were ever allowed to wrestle control of the team I will never know? David Gill and the board that sanctioned this takeover all need to be put in front of a firing squad.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:33
@Onkar: Yes but you are assuming that just because we free up money from players who are either going to retire and or be sold that this money will go back to player development. Have you learned nothing from the Ronaldo sale and the Ljajic affair to realize that all money made by United goes towards the Glazer’s debt. They do not want to spend a dime on players, not in transfer fees or even in exorbitant salaries. The situation is incredibly dire. I laugh at reports of Barca and Madrid looking to buy Rooney but then when I really stop to think about it, I would never rule it out.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:36
@CraigMc: I wish the fans at Old Trafford and the fans living in Manchester acted more like a Roman mob and basically threatened the Glazer’s survival unless they had their way. Instead they sit back and take this shite.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:39
@CraigMc: Again this requires organization and requires legal and complex trust funds being created and managed by local business leaders of strong repute and good standing. Know anybody?
I’d love to see fans band together an if nothing else, come up with yearly transfer funds that they would offer United and Fergie to use to buy players only. I mean really, why not? If every fan like myself was willing to donate 100 pounds towards this endeavor then I could imagine quite the transfer kitty.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:42
@Karl: Again, something like that sounds great in theory but it needs strong and financially capable leaders in order to be taken seriously.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:42
@Karl: So are you volunteering to lead us Mr Christian?
January 14th, 2010 at 13:44
@Stephen: I for one am willing to pledge 100 pounds as a start. Now the millions of fans out there, if everyone was willing to pledge 100 pounds or more, serious things could start happening. I won’t lose sleep over the thought of anything happening though because when it comes to most fans, talk is cheap.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:44
@Grognard: For me I am not sure but, group like MUST (which by the way I am also a part of )should do more than just a protesting in media. It is practically not going to help at all… If anything the things will keep on getting worse…
What I personally feel is the trust should aggressively start accumulating money from all the people who are supporting Man UTD and this cause. Go for the branches of your trust across verious cities in England and World over. Go for special screening of games world over and put your point across to people who have gone for the game. And try and get some considerable funds through what ever channels you get across the world.
This will make two things sure. We including MUST will stop talking and act in money terms. Cause at the end of that is what matters. They should be able to put FINANCIAL MUSCLE to those bastards. Add to this the bargaining power they will get to deal with bankers nad Glaziers himself…
Secondly, we can even try to sit across the table with the glaziers and may be look to negotiate a deal for having equity stake in company by showing him money as well as forcing him to pay of the debts by that money…
Lastly, it will give MUST a stand in the eyes of FA and Government of UK as it can negotiate with government to take stringent action against Glaziers as at the end of the day they are NON ENGLISH OWNERS.
I know I am trying to talk about to ideal situation. Which may be theoretical and practically very difficult may be impossible. But, at least MUST should look at all these ways of doing thinsg then only they will get the kind of support they may need….
January 14th, 2010 at 13:46
@Karl: Oh please. Put me anywhere near a Glazer and I end up in jail.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:46
@Stephen: 20 sounds good. Hell, I’d do it for free.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:48
@Grognard: Are you saying that we did sign him and we then sold him? Or, did we not sign him in the first place? My understanding was that it was a joint purchase of both Llajic and Tosic. If this is the case, why then let him go when he has not yet been given a chance to show what ‘value’ he could hold? It does not make sense.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:50
This is a model that can be used to create the organization that I am talking about but on a much grander scale and with the support of every Man Utd web site spreading the need and urgency out there for all fans to donate.
http://www.myfootballclub.co.uk/
January 14th, 2010 at 13:54
@Karl: We signed him in a way that the deal was not official until January of this month when he would get his work permit. They used the work permit excuse to halt the deal. So the contract unlike Tosic had a starting date contingent on work permits. Now seriously speaking, when has a team like United ever had a prospective player turned down for a work permit? What a joke! And they would have us all believe that was the reason. Bollocks! They followed him and realized that although good, there was a risk factor considering the scouts for this club haven’t made a solid discovery in five years and so why would Ljajic be any different then all the other failures? The problem is that he would cost more than they were willing to pay for that kind of risk.
January 14th, 2010 at 13:54
@Grognard: Count me in for a £100!
January 14th, 2010 at 13:58
@Grognard: I am definitely going to start researching this idea bit more.
I also feel that demonstrating and remonstrating is a bit useless because, as Onkar stated, at the end of the day, it’s all about money. The Glaziers don’t give a rats ass about their public image. Hell, they have PR officers for that. They care about money.
A fan takeover will be unique in a sense that WE the fans are the actual consumers of the product. At the end of the day, we can make or break it. We need to make use of that leverage. Perhaps also as Onkar stated, to start off with a share investment.
I know that with fans talk is cheap. I just hate feeling helpless. I believe there’s always a way. I don’t have the amount of money required to buy the club, but I do know there are a lot of other people with the same ideal, and if all band together, with passion rather than profit being the primary motivator, something can happen.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:00
Found this over at the MUST forum.
Newcastle United fans plot buy-out as they voice displeasure at Mike Ashley
By Bruce Maxwell and Rob Stewart
Telegraph: 8:46PM BST 03 Oct 2009
“As anger on Tyneside mounted at the revelations over Kevin Keegan’s fateful exit from St James’s Park, Newcastle United fans have launched a fresh bid to unseat owner Mike Ashley.
Supporters vented their fury at Ashley – and the departed Dennis Wise – at Saturday’s home game against Bristol City, with impassioned terrace chants having called on him to “get out of our club”.
With takeover attempts stalled, the prospects of Ashley selling up in the near future have looked remote in recent weeks, though businessman Barry Moat is still in talks with the club’s hierarchy.
However, the Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST), which is about to be officially launched, is looking to hasten Ashley’s departure using fan power, and it claims to have close to £20m in pledges, money it hopes to use to buy a stake in the club, though preferably from a new owner.
More remarkably, the ‘Yes We Can’ campaign, which has the backing of city financial institutions, is yet to be officially launched. It is using new pensions legislation, and already has 483 pledges of £20,000, and a further 202 members committed to signing up.
Neil Mitchell, chair of the NUST, said: “Realistically, we’re looking to buy a stake in the club, though we don’t think buying it outright is unrealistic in the long term. With the takeovers at an impasse, we’re looking to raise funds to help a new buyer. We want to give supporters a voice, something they’ve not had in the past.”
The move is set against the background of the verdict Premier League managerial tribunal into Keegan’s claim for constructive dismissal, which found in favour of the club’s former manager, who was forced out just over a year ago, the final straw having been the signing of unknown midfielder Ignacio Gonzalez, who he was told too look up on YouTube by Wise, then executive director (football).
The club’s own programme and website had claimed Keegan would have the final say on transfers after Wise’s arrival, though those interviews, it was admitted in the hearing, were little more than PR exercises.
Mitchell added: “The fact that the fans have been lied to is a damning indictment of the way the club’s been run over the last couple of years.”
Meanwhile, the England and Manchester City midfielder, Gareth Barry, was on Saturday at the centre of fresh revelations over the build-up to the departure of Kevin Keegan from the Newcastle manager’s office.
It has emerged that while the signing of Ignacio Gonzales may have been the final straw for Keegan, his paymasters’ dismissal of his interest in Barry during his Aston Villa days represented the beginning of the end for former England manager.
“The findings of the report from the compensation do contain a lot of revelations but they don’t tell even half of the story about what has been going on at that club in the last couple of years,” a club source said.
“Kevin was adamant when he came in he was going to have a say in buying and selling players ” after all, it’s how he made his name last time around as manager.
“It all started around the April of last year when Gareth Barry was linked with Liverpool and Kev thought he had a chance of bringing him to Newcastle because of his relationship from their England days.
“Obviously, Barry’s move to Liverpool turned sour, and he’s at Man City after staying with Villa last year. But Kevin is convinced with the right backing he’d have been a Newcastle player.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo…ke-Ashley.html
__________________
January 14th, 2010 at 14:02
It is very difficult to separate fact from fiction. On the one hand you have rumours we will have to sell Rooney, sell Old Trafford, sell our training ground etc etc. On the other hand you hear that our debt is on firmer footing and we have a £75 million transfer fund for this summer.
I’m inclined to think that nothing has really changed. But that in itself is worrying!!!!
After all last season we only managed to stay profitable by a huge player sale of £80 million. And that was a season where we got to the Champions League Final and won the league.
If this season we get knocked out early in the Champions League and do not win the league that means we’ll get considerably less revenue than last year and that means our financial position will be worse and we will have to sell more players.
All I know is that no manager is going to want to take over Ferguson as long as the debt situation remains. After all Jose himself said he chooses where to work based on the chairman not the club.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:03
@Karl: Demonstrations matter mate because the Glazer’s are very concerned about perception because they are marketing a brand. Anytime their is anarchy and bad publicity regarding a brand name, it is a problem. Make their lives miserable enough and one day they will just throw their hands up and say this isn’t worth it anymore.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:04
@Grognard: I would then imagine that the fact that Tosic also could not manage to secure a first-team place might have added to the risk factor.
This all is getting very sickening.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:08
@Karl: It’s about finding the people or fans out there that are not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. Manchester United has literally millions of hard core fans around the world. Now if some group could get the message out to all of them that they need to donate some money and get involved, I would suggest that proof of a well organized operation founded for this purpose would get the kind of money we are talking about. I mean Newcastle has pledges for 20 million and nobody outside of the Toon knows Newcastle exists. United on the other hand are well known everywhere in the world. The potential to generate fifty times that kind of money is very much possible in my mind.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:08
@Grognard: This seems to be exactly what I have in mind. The whole pledge thing. I might be onto something then hey?
Thanks for the info. Please send more when you do come accross it. I now more than ever BELIEVE that this is the route to go.
The club is such an important part of my life. I am going to make sure that I have a bit more say in matters that matters most.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:09
@Karl: True but my feeling is that there are many young players they have signed that haven’t lived up to expectations and the Glazer’s were not willing to sign yet another enigma.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:10
@Grognard: I guess you’re right. It is all about branding. Still I feel it will be more beneficial if the people doing it will do it for themselves.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:12
@Karl: It was a very stange deal especially as we have forked out £8m for a player who can’t even get into the match day squad, eas Llajic work permit being turned down a smoke screen, that was the official reason he did not sign?
January 14th, 2010 at 14:14
@Karl: Again though, keep in mind that none of this can work without local business leaders being part of a movement like this. There are three groups that need to be secured. Local business people and pledges for serious money and shares (for example, donations over 10,000 pound) then there is the group that donates 100 to 1000 pounds and finally the masses who can contribute anything from 20 to 99 pounds. Memberships need to be started where fans donations are acknowledged and rewarded and then serious organization of those monies being placed in trust for all to see.
January 14th, 2010 at 14:31
@Grognard: Do you ever sleep matey!!
January 14th, 2010 at 14:33
@Grognard: I see your point. Although, at this point I am trying not to think too much about technicalities. Just the possibilities.
I feel it is possible due to 3 major facts:
1. Branding – and the associated image that goes with it for sponsors
2. The fact that the Glaziers are heavily into debt because of the club
3. The consumer is the one making the takeover bid.
I am going to sleep on this tonight. Hopefully I can have some ideas for a conceptual strategy tomorrow.
January 14th, 2010 at 16:07
@Grognard: Please read up on the model in detail. That model just spectacularly failed. I’ll send you articles on it later on. It became more a spectacle and hence collapsed. That is completely NOT the way to run the football club.
January 14th, 2010 at 16:25
@Red Ranter: and Shaun of the Dead
January 14th, 2010 at 16:47
@Karl: I think you mean that United is in debt because of the Glazers.
January 14th, 2010 at 17:24
Anyone felt a small, guilty, kind of gayness watching this?
January 14th, 2010 at 17:33
@Stephen: I got up to go to the bathroom and couldn’t fall asleep again. I finally did go back to sleep and so my reply now comes at 8:30am as opposes to 4:00am.
January 14th, 2010 at 17:37
@Red Ranter: I wasn’t aware of that. I just remember the idiots at World Soccer Daily raving about it for the longest time. I just pointed it out as an example of one way to go about things especially considering this was not a well known or major team. I actually believe that a well organized world wide web campaign to save a big or famous team can work if properly run.
January 14th, 2010 at 17:39
@NicoQB: No, but I’ll always hold it against you for linking to it.
January 14th, 2010 at 17:46
@Red Ranter: The idiots at WSD raved about it because these people were sponsors for a while.
January 14th, 2010 at 17:56
@Red Ranter: Yes I figured such and nothing would surprise me coming from that Chelsea loving weasel.
January 14th, 2010 at 18:04
I hope it is a joke!!!
January 14th, 2010 at 18:26
@AndyCR7: its not funny! not a joke!!
January 14th, 2010 at 19:04
@AndyCR7: I always thought only numbskulls resorted to physical violence, but the glazers are seriously testing my resolve.
January 14th, 2010 at 19:09
@NicoQB: Well… That was…
Fail? 
January 14th, 2010 at 19:15
@NicoQB: Hey mate, is Red Cafe down? I am not able to access it on my PC. But, its accessible on my mobile! strange…
January 14th, 2010 at 19:17
@AndyCR7: Fuck the Glazers!
I’m sick of their bullshit! Selling Carrington is bad, but I can live with that. But selling Old Trafford? Now that… is unacceptable! We gotta make a stand, before it’s too late!
January 14th, 2010 at 19:21
@Grognard: Count me in for £100, I’d do everything in my power to save this club. I may not have a lot of money, but I would gladly save up if it meant doing something to help this club. United in my heart!
January 14th, 2010 at 19:31
I think if all this financial shit is true, then there is a good reason for the shit football we have played this season. Many of us, including me, crave for entertainment, saying we would rather lose 3-4 that draw 0-0 or 1-1. Well, if this club really is in the financial crises that we are rumoured to be, then I will gladly endure many more boring 1-0 wins. I think we are in a situation where not winning a trophy or ending up in the top 3 will lose us a lot of money and possibly also turn this club into relegation. Leeds United anyone? We get a lot of money for winning the title, winning a cup or at least getting far in it, or ending up very high in the table. If we don’t get that money we will be forced to sell, both our best players and club facilites such as Old Trafford or Carrington and such. Somehow, we need to end this. If we ever want to see the old Manchester United back, the Glazers have to leave. They just have to leave! Whether the new owners are Arabs, fans or aliens, I doubt they would do a worse job than the fat American wankers.
Somebody needs to make a difference, I don’t know who or how but we have to do it. Now, we need to act as supporters to this club, prove what means most to us. Manchester United Football Club
January 14th, 2010 at 20:28
@Red Ranter: by nihilist to kill an answering machine iirc
January 14th, 2010 at 20:33
@EduardoDaVinci4: I agree, if it is true then it explains loads of stuff on the pitch, like i said before sir alex is not that stupid to not see our problems, he cant come out and blame our players all he can do is support them.
January 14th, 2010 at 21:09
@EduardoDaVinci4: more likely they would sell the name of OT to AON or whoever would pay the most.
It is very common in the states and has been happening in England for a while i think the first was Scarborough’s McCain Stadium in the late 80s. and im sure everyone knows the DW stadium formerly the JJB. I think alot of the more scary articles are by abu supporters trolling us. That is why im waiting till after the summer to go ballistic.
I think a fire sale of the facilities and or stadium is not on the table.
If anything i would expect the Glazers to try and sell the club or float minority shares back onto the stock market. An IPO of united stock would generate plenty of cash.
January 14th, 2010 at 21:18
@EduardoDaVinci4: really you think that just anyone could run this club to 3 prems
2 league cups
1 CL
1 club world cup
you only have to look at pool and Newcastle to see that this is not true. New owners would be nice but we could do much worse. Any new owners should be looked at with as much reservation that we currently have for the Glazers.
How about if citeh’s billionaire bought us and sells everything and kept OT to be citeh’s practice ground out of spite?
January 14th, 2010 at 21:51
@gator: Don’t be silly.
January 14th, 2010 at 21:55
@AndyCR7: No. tried it, got on the front page, but I’m not browsing much as I’m busy doing some revision offline….
January 14th, 2010 at 22:43
Just an FYI for those who’ve only been on this page all day: I’ve done a little bit refined pleading in the new post.
You can either continue discussions here or take it to the new page, in case this is not loading fast enough.
January 14th, 2010 at 23:07
@gator: Where was that from?
I just said it’s time for us fans to make a stand concerning the Glazers, not Ferguson…
January 14th, 2010 at 23:20
@gator: it iwll be interesting to see how expensive those 3 EPL titles and the recent success will be in the long term. Leeds were successful but their owner ran the club to the ground… the same could happen to us with the Glazers…
I am more worried now than before with the news of 70 million rooney and Carrington possibly up for sale.
January 14th, 2010 at 23:30
@EduardoDaVinci4:
“Whether the new owners are Arabs, fans or aliens, I doubt they would do a worse job”
all I said was we cold have had worse owners and that we shouldn’t look to “just anyone” as saviors we should be just as weary with any potential owner-owners as we are now with the glazers.
See the owners of liverpool, newcastle, leeds, pompy for examples of “worse” owners
January 14th, 2010 at 23:38
@[OPTI]Madschester United:
Their are other avenues to bring in more cash immediately that are more likely such as corporate renaming of OT, selling a minority share of united, and shedding older players, that i believe would happen before a sale of the training facility and roony.
I have no doubt that roony has many suitors however the man himself has expressed no desire to leave as ronaldo did and was the main reason he was sold.
I also think that many of the rumors going around like the ones mentioned are being spread by the Anyone But United crowd in the media to fuck with supporters heads and it seems to be working.
January 14th, 2010 at 23:53
alright people, really worried about our club, reading the papers and listening to talk sport. altho everyone has heard about the debt for years now, this is the first i am really starting to worrie. we need a world class midfielder to create chances for our strikers and they dont come cheap, whats the chances of finding another ronaldo, very slim. so do we have the money or not to compete for these players. if not we’re fucked, and god forbid if we dont finish in the top 4 over the next few years. ( a worried fan) MUFC till i die, although not all fans are so loyal when we’re not winning trophys, wish is also a worrie.
January 15th, 2010 at 0:28
@EduardoDaVinci4: That’s the way I feel too. Right now I am living on Disability Benefits but I still have more money availalbe for transfers than United does.
I would like some powerful supporters in and around Manchester to start a movement or fund for this purpose. MUST is not going far enough. We all need to pledge what we can. If millions of United fans worldwide were to pledge what they can, I believe the team could be bought. Unrealistic perhaps, but right now I am desperate. Of course I would ask all to donate to the Haiti relief fund before United as that is a true tragedy and it puts United’s problems in proper perspective. Lets help the folks in Haiti first. Everyone should send something to help the relief effort. 
January 15th, 2010 at 0:33
@gator: Rooney is going nowhere as long as Fergie is in charge. I’ll bank my rep on that. After Fergie retires all bets are off however.
January 15th, 2010 at 0:37
Has anyone here seen the Ken Loach film Looking for Eric? just imagine the look on the Glazers faces if every utd fan turned up like they did at the end of that film. Job Done thats for sure.
January 15th, 2010 at 0:57
@Redrich: I don’t know how you view things but I can’t credit Ferguson for any achievement we’ve had so far this season. In fact there is no way this bunch of so-called mediocre players could have been second in the league if not for their talent. No one seems to see how destructive Ferguson’s tactics and way of coaching has been over the past two seasons. We have regressed technically to a deeply disturbing level and we can never be counted on the same levels as the Milans,Madrids,Chelseas,Arsenals,Barcas,Valencias of this football world. I mean half the teams in the Premiership can pass the ball better. That tells me the whole technical dept with Fergie at the helm,know nothing about what they are supposed to do. There’s no club in Europe right now that has seen so much regression in it’s players as United. Mediocre or not. Arsene Wenger does not really have all these superstars in his squad,but because of his technical and tactical acumen he can make them into a magnificent team. Flamini can’t buy a spot in the Milan team,but when he was at Arsenal he looked like one of the best midfielders in the world. It’s knowing how to put together a team,within a system and giving players the right roles and developing them constantly. It takes high levels of technical competence,of which Ferguson,bless his soul,has none. He did well when he combined with someone who is capable of handling that aspect of the game. People who tinker a lot clearly don’t know what they are doing,otherwise they would not be doing all that trial and error. That’s how Ranieri lost his job at Chelsea,because he didn’t know how to combine the talent at his disposal in the best way.
January 15th, 2010 at 1:51
@Jay wire: Each to our own, mate.
You and I are polar opposites on this issue and I really see no purpose in discussing it any further with you.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:46
@Jay wire: His tactics may be destructive to the soul and may stink from an entertainment point of view but this year he has done his best ever job of management mate, whether you want to believe it or not. He is lacking severely in talent especially attacking talent and the team has been decimated by injuries to it’s defense and GK. Yet through all of it the club has overachieved in my opinion because the tactics Fergie has used are the right ones for the circumstance. Again, regardless of entertainment value, Fergie has gotten the very most out of sad sack bunch of muppets. I have my issues with Fergie and I am pissed off with him greatly over his attitude towards refs, his protectionism of the Glazer’s and his bloody lying to us about finding value in the transfer market. But as far as managing this team through games this season, it hasn’t been pretty but it has been effective under the current circumstances.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:53
I’m wondering what the Glazers stand point would be if the Bond issue fails to draw the required interest.
For them, the business model has to one that creates black ink on the PL statement otherwise they risk their biggest asset – the “Manchester United brand”.
For United to stay competitive, play CL football, perhaps win a trophy once in a while, SAF will need his 25+m each year to improve/maintain the squad and from a laymans perspective, if they don’t succeed with the Bond, they cannot possible pursue such a course! If the fortunes of the team begin to fail, the prized possession will begin to devalue – and it’s at that point that they are fucked!!
Could it be that they are making their final financial move with us? Desperate to survive and in danger of default, are they shooting their entire wad on this maneuver? Well it remains to be seen, but from a business perspective, failure with the Bond issue, would make them much more motivated to sell than at any time before!!
There is some evidence that this could well be a hard sell and if I was an investor who was previously interested in us, I would be watching how this shakes down, very, very carefully!!
All is not lost, men!!
January 15th, 2010 at 2:53
I have to say that I found this article on Fergie very funny indeed. Kind of rings true whether you are a fan of his or not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/15/harry-pearson-sir-alex-ferguson?
January 15th, 2010 at 3:47
@Grognard: It was nice to read something slightly whimsical about United. I kind of feel a bit beat up from all the negatives, and yes this brought a smile to my face, mate!
January 15th, 2010 at 3:58
@Redrich: I’m glad you enjoyed it. I too found it uplifting.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:22
@Will: I just watched the movie and I have to say that yes, if fans can bond like that for a noble cause, anything is possible. Loved the movie and watching the King give advice to the main character in the film just gave me goosebumps. The man is my hero and my favorite United footballer of all time and watching him in a movie was almost as good as dreaming of him making a comeback. Great line in the movie. “I am not a man…………..I am Cantona”. Almost had an orgasm after that. Long Live the King!
January 15th, 2010 at 5:23
@Will: Also, if we did that to the Glazer’s, I’d insist on real bullets.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:28
Hope everyone did their thing for Haiti.
Apparantly lots of ways to donate. Here in the US just text the message “Haiti” to 90999. and $10 donation will be added to your cell bill.
Massive suffering here guys, they need our help – big time!!
January 15th, 2010 at 6:05
@Redrich: Yes bro… When something like this happens we really come to know what is value of the life we are leaving.. We always complain about ‘n’ number of things like I don’t have this, I wish I had that thing but we are still far better of then what those poor people in haiti are going through. I am from India and I am not aware whether the Government here have any fund or not for this cause (they may have but its just that its not in my knowledge). But, I have already donated my bit to the cause on line through American Red Cross using their web site http://www.redcross.org….
Its simple and easy to use. Its just like paying for any on line purchases…. Please note though that the minimum amount you have to donate for the cause using online facility is $10….
I urge all the RANTERS here whether regular contributor or not please donate for the cause of human being…
January 15th, 2010 at 6:42
This is what I received from MUST today….
We realise only matchgoing and Manchester area members are likely to be
able to attend this meeting but we’ve sent it to all members as we know
many will be interested and we’ll report back after the meeting. Please
pass this message on and encourage all MUFC supporters you know to join
MUST as a free e-member.
MEETING – SATURDAY 16th Jan 1pm
MUST and IMUSA (the two independent democratic fans groups) are inviting
all interested Manchester United supporters to a meeting before this
Saturday’s game v Burnley to discuss the response to the Glazers’ ownership
of Manchester United.
The meeting is intended to offer supporters the chance to contribute their
ideas and become involved in the campaign. We want your ideas and energy.
All Manchester United supporters welcome
Non-members can join MUST free here: http://www.joinmust.org
Meeting at 1pm upstairs at O?Briens in Stretford Andale – directions here:
http://bit.ly/5cbfI0
The meeting is in the function room upstairs, the door to the stairs is
past the pool table and will be clearly marked.
Additional notes – the reason the meeting was called with such short notice
this Saturday is due to demand from members for action ASAP but additional
meetings are planned depending on outcome of Saturday meeting.
For those attending:
Please be patient – due to short notice only downstairs bar will be open.
Please treat venue with respect – they have been great supporters over year
and always provided venue free of charge.
For those not attending:
Info will be distributed via all usual channels. If you haven’t already
done so sign up as a free member of MUST here:
http://www.joinmust.org/free
I hope all the real MANCS who are a part MUST will be attending it… I hope something concrete should happen…..
January 15th, 2010 at 7:43
@Onkar: I was just about to post that myself. I strongly urge those fans who live in the Manchester area and who give a damn to attend. Personally, I wished I could attend but unfortunately that is an impossibility.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:51
@Grognard: Same here bro… I wish I could have done something more….
January 15th, 2010 at 9:51
Words leaking out in media today – Rooney playing hardball and refusing to sign new contract unless United raise his pay from present 90,000 quid a week to 140,000 quid a week. Apparently United are furious! Rooney – ANOTHER greedy football fuck, holding the club to ransom. His agents looking at the 70-80,000 bids with massive salaries being offered for a transfer in the summer with Barca and Rael M fighting it out for his signature. I couldn’t give a fuck about Rooney, because obviously I don’t rate him as much as the rest of you, and obviously not at 140,000 quid a week. Rooney really believes he’s among the world’s best, well he has to prove that to me, because he misses far more chances than he scores (4-1) in the misses I would say. Also I very much doubt he will have a great world cup as SAF is spouting today, because Rooney has never proved himself against the world’s best defenders! But we’ll see eh?
January 15th, 2010 at 10:03
@CraigMc: See, if its true I wouldn’t give a rat ass about Rooney’s Exit…. But the only worry that I have is the money that we will receive. See, If we are getting as much as we got for Ronaldo or what you have qouted 70-80mn then I won’t cry about it unless that money is invested in TEAM rather than going into serving DEBTS. And I fear for that to happen and that’s why I would rather keep him…
January 15th, 2010 at 10:28
@CraigMc: If we sold Rooney we would certainly fall out of the top four, the Glaziers would not re invest the money so we would be fucked.
All footballers hold out for more money, you are not a Rooney fan and that shows, Keane held out for more money on his contract, Rio they all do it’s football.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:38
@Stephen: That goes without saying Stephen mate that I am not a massive Rooney fan, but to expect a 50,000 a week payrise – well what has he done to earn that??? Stephen you are a Rooney massive mate, so please tell me any truly MEMORABLE Rooney performances this season, refresh my memory mate, because he has had so many poor games, I need my mind refreshing. I am serious about this, I would like the Rooney massive fans to remind me of the performances this season from Rooney that have saved our bacon??? Please don’t say his goals, because any other top class striker would have scored far more given the equivelant number of chances
. I am not trying to put you all on the spot, I just won’t to know, because I realluy cant recall one memorable Rooney performance this season. So please help me if any of you think he is worth 140,000 quid a week plus huge bonuses??????
January 15th, 2010 at 10:42
@CraigMc: He has been our best player all season mate and has scored 15 goals, without him we would be fucked.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:56
For some strange reason, I won’t rule out a Rooney+cash swop for Benzema in the summer. Problem I see with this is that a hellava lot of ‘discrediting Rooney’ will have to precede this in order for the club to get away with it without the fans causing a riot. Curious thought to see how that will play off without devalueing his price-tag.
Maybe this wage increase rumours is the start of that – Remember how pissed-off the fans got with Rio for not signing?
January 15th, 2010 at 11:03
I don’t agree mate obviously. 4 or 5 of those goals are penalties, so that would mean he as our main striker has scored 10 or 11 goals only. Apart from the goals, he has not been an attractive entertainer (like Ronnie and Tevez were and still are), because he fails so much in so many other areas of his game. So why does he deserve 140,000 quid a week mate?. Fred Done was just saying that he wouldn’t touch the United bonds with a barge pole, because its a massive no-no risk. He said he knows the corporate boxes are not selling, that he sees plenty of empty seats, with United tickets on open sale which has never happened for years at United. He says that he sees divisions within the team, and we have sold off our best player assets! So Rooney is not putting bums on seats as Ronnie and Tevez did is he???????
January 15th, 2010 at 11:13
@Karl: I think your so right Karl! United are NEVER going to pay Rooney 140,000 quid a week, because if they did stars like Vidic, Rio, Evra would CROW loudly about it and make similar demands. Also, like you said this wage demand thing is being made public, and that following the club at last making the fans see publically the financial state of our club – those 2 things are very telling. The same thing with Vidic, and Fergie saying recently it is becoming increasingly hard to keep Vidic at OT. So you can guarantee big changes are on the way in the summer. The Glazers and the fucking greedy high wage demands of players who were of little renown when they came to us, have fucked us over real proper.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:47
@CraigMc: Rooney is the most popular player with the fans, and what penalties don’t count? How many pens did Ronnie score? You don’t like Rooney so mate i don’t want to get into a good old fashioned manc row with you bro, but a lot of United fans would not agree with you, like it or hate it he is our best player and without him we would be in massive trouble.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:14
@CraigMc: and @Karl:
I have no doubts in my mind that VIDIC is on his way out. And if I get anywhere close to 25mn I would be happy to let him go. Secondly, I think I won’t mind seeing the swap that Karl is talking about provided that we are at least talking about around 35-40mn bare minimum + Benzema… I think its worth a shot…
But, condition applied for all the thinks will be Glaziers are reinvesting the money that we would receiving.. And that seems unlikely at this point in time….
January 15th, 2010 at 12:23
oh god the thought of selling rooney is so disgusting to me, start selling the ass clowns first before our asset.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:37
I would never sell Rooney, not for any money in the world! The guy is United through and through, he is our best player and just a guy with a personality and spirit that automatically makes him a fans favorite. I’d rather make £65 million selling Nani, Berbatov, Vidic and Gibson than selling Rooney. The guy is class!
January 15th, 2010 at 13:49
@EduardoDaVinci4: After the world cup Nani alone will be worth 65 million mate
January 15th, 2010 at 13:50
@EduardoDaVinci4: That and it looks as if we did sell him, we wouldn’t get any of the money to spend on replacing him, it would simply go into the black hole that is the Glazer’s bank account.
January 15th, 2010 at 13:50
@ROOOOONEY: But Rooney is the biggest ass clown too mate
January 15th, 2010 at 13:52
@ROOOOONEY: If we give in to his wage demands, he will become the world’s first 144,000 quid a week biggest ass clown
January 15th, 2010 at 14:14
If it is just a desire to be on a par with Rio then I’d get rid of some of the losers we have to free up some wage funds. Because right now Rooney has far more worth to the team than Rio and so does Vidic for that matter.
Personally I’d like to get rid of Rio. His wages are too high, he is getting on in years, has endless injury problems and we could sell him for a tidy £15-20 million to a cash rich club like Real. Also we have good defenders coming through and defenders tend to be the cheapest players to sign.
But if Rooney wants to hold us to ransom with wage demands he knows we cannot meet in our financial turmoil, then I question his loyalty and sell him. If he wants to jump ship at our greatest time of need then I will lose respect for him as a player and certainly do not see him as captain material.
If we were forced to sell him I do not think it is a disaster. We could probably get Benzema as part of our transfer dealings for a reasonable fee and he could go some way to filling the gap. We also have players like Diouf, Macheda and Welbeck. While I haven’t been impressed by any of them, the only way they will improve is if they get games and we might as well take advantage of this financial crisis to properly blood youngsters which we’ve been neglecting in recent years.
The problem with selling Nani, Berbatov, Gibson etc is we wouldn’t get much for them. Those three in total wouldn’t fetch much more than £30 million and because we’d lose three squad players we’d have to replace them and pay the United tax, and it is not as though we have many young midfielders coming through.
It is a total mess. All we can do is impose a firm wage structure and sell those who try to break it, no matter who they are. And place our faith in the youngsters because it seems we’ll have to be a selling club until our debt stabilises or someone else buys us.
January 15th, 2010 at 14:35
Rafa’s gone on another FACTS rant. Started his press conference by taking out a piece of paper and saying ‘I’m going to start with some facts’….
Haven’t heard it yet.. talkpsort just getting the audio now.
January 15th, 2010 at 15:12
@CraigMc: I dont believe the wage story, after all it is from the sun. and nani for 65mil wow really?
January 15th, 2010 at 16:12
I’ve just attempted to read through the Bond prospectus,not good reading obviously. If we were a stand alone business with no debt and/or leeches then we should have 40-50m spare to reinvest into the club plus £80m fom player sales just based on last years accounts. Its an absolute joke, the club could stand on its own two feet, no thank you sheiks nor dodgy Russian crooks bailing us out.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:21
I don’t want to look arrogant, but we have made the league look open, tell me one team that could lose nine defenders and still be in the position we are in still be in the position we are in? No other team could do that, only Manchester United…’ Patrice Evra!!! Legend
January 15th, 2010 at 17:24
@CraigMc: You shouldn’t believe everything you read in the rags mate. Don’t you find this kind of crap just coincidental as it comes out during all this Glazer business. Rooney isn’t going anywhere. If there hasn’t been a mutiny and a eruption by the fans yet trust me, it would happen if this club had any thoughts about selling Rooney. You are in the small minority of supporters who are not Rooney fans, believe me. Wayne is the heart and soul of this club, the fans know it and Fergie does too. All you are reading is nothing more than media bullshit.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:26
@Onkar: If they were to sell Rooney the only reason would be to take the money and put it towards the debt, otherwise, what’s the purpose?
January 15th, 2010 at 17:30
@CraigMc: There isn’t a player in the entire EPL that is worth more money than Rooney. There are several in Spain but not in England. That is the truth mate whether you want to believe it or not. Your Rooney hatred is definitely showing through and I think you lack the proper judgment to rate him fairly. Yes he has not been in top form this year yet he leads the league in goals. But as you may remember, the Skinned Sausage was just awful last year and this season he is arguably out team MVP. So what I would say to you is that I for one am not so eager to part with a talent like Rooney because of what is perceived as a sub par season. This sub par season we are talking about may actually end up being his most productive on record. Ironic isn’t it?
January 15th, 2010 at 17:35
@Karl: Ask yourself this question, with all the stuff going on right now at OT, would anyone blame Rooney if indeed he wanted to go? Love and loyalty to a team is noble and all but when the team looks to fall apart at the seams and not just on the field but as a franchise, perhaps the best thing a sailor can do in a moment like that is abandon ship. Let Fergie go down with the ship he helped steer into the ice berg. He deserves it for being loyal to the Glazer’s. Rooney on the other hand does not have to go down with the ship too just because of bad owners and a misguided manager.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:38
@CraigMc: What a load of arse wipe. He still had to score those penalties and the fact is nobody ever complained about Henry’s or Ronaldo’s totals because they too took penalties. Your Rooney song and dance is sad and boring mate. We get it, you don’t like him, but please, trying to poison all of us against him is not going to work. Just get off his back. You are showing one of Uniteds greatest ever players a Hell of a lot of disrespect and a great disservice. You treat him the way I do an Anderson, Park or Foster. It’s very unjust and incredibly unfair. Get you glasses fixed.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:41
@EduardoDaVinci4: I don’t believe Rooney is “United thru and thru”. People throw that around alot, but Rooney is not there yet. Giggs,scholes,red nev… Those guys have proved their passion over the years. Rooney hasn’t been here long enough to prove he isn’t just another mercanery.
I hope the wage demand rumours aren’t true, but as with any other player, I wouldn’t be shocked if they were.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:42
@EduardoDaVinci4: I agree mate. Just how much bullshit are the fans expected to endure? Selling Rooney would be the last straw. The Glazer’s would be hung in public outside of OT if that were to happen. There are just some things you do not do. Rooney is not a greedy player. Everything we are reading is just media bullshit designed to stir the kettle. Sure he wants a raise but that is it. And frankly, he deserves a raise.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:44
@CraigMc: No, right now the only ass clown I see is my good buddy Craig, who has his head up his arse so deeply, he is beginning to fell his back teeth. Seriously Bro, get off it already, it’s a pathetic dance you are doing.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:48
@colver: Absolutely. I’d get rid of Rio and his injuries before I got rid of Wayne. Anderson, Park, Foster, Nani, Neville, Scholes and Berba could all be shown the door before I would consider getting rid of Rooney. United still are a brand and what player markets that brand on this team better than Rooney? It would be financial and business suicide to sell Rooney as it would be if Liverpool sold Gerrard. Not going to happen unless Wayne demands to leave himself.
January 15th, 2010 at 17:53
@Johnsom33: Jee, I guess his work ethic and effort he has put in for us over five seasons means nothing eh? Who works harder and kisses the badge more than Wayne mate? I think the effort the lad puts in makes him an instant UNited legend and the fact that you even doubt that is absolutely a mystery to me. What in Gods name must a player do to be considered a legend that Wayne hasn’t done? He has been here longer than Cantona for Christ’s sakes and unlike Best has been sober the whole time. There is no doubt, he is a legend and always will be.
January 15th, 2010 at 18:08
Can someone tell me why we are not being linked with Canales?
The moment this kid scored two beauts, you could hear the journos’ printing start to roll. And just about every big club is being linked with him except us.
Would hate to miss on another Torres.
January 15th, 2010 at 18:28
@NicoQB: We are, along with Madrid, Barca, Inter, Citeh, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and the rest of the world.
I think we suffer from having too large a squad. I’d rather we had a smaller squad of better players paid a bit more, than having players like Park around to ‘do a job’ for £30,000 a bloody week
January 15th, 2010 at 18:35
@Grognard: You haven’t considered the fact that just a couple of seasons ago the majority of this bunch was subject to a debate that was prevalent across the football platform,of which group was better, the class of 99 or the class of 08. Even right here on this blog. I don’t know how you guys can say SAF has done a stellar job of managing given the crap players he has. Believe it or not these players have carried him. They’ve had their hands tied and constantly been placed under unnecessary counter constructive conditions and still soldier on. Ferguson’s tactics are simply unnecessary and it’s not even about attacking football vs boring football. I mean we are not even good at the cattenacio game he is trying so hard to play. It’s about common sense. I’ve always said, even if our players are so useless and crappy, they still have an order of crappiness. For instance,Nani,Tosic,Giggs and Obertan are better than Park Ji Sung 99.99% of the time. Carrick and Fletcher are clearly our best central midfielders etc.
So why not select the best useless eleven we have,and place them within a system that works for them and stick with that. All the others will have to contribute as cover. Obviously they will establish some form of chemistry and at least our brand of mind numbing football will have some cohesion and direction. Look at the “useless” bunch at Birmingham who have notched 11 games unbeaten. The very same 11 has started together for the last 13 games. There is just no way Ferguson’s continous tinkering can be labelled,his best management in years. Ferguson behaves like it’s 1960 when you would apply different tactics and systems to suit individual games since there were not so many games to be played. Well wake up Fergie,this is modern day football and you won’t go anywhere without the highest technical standards and simple common sense. The thing with Ferguson is his past success will always be there to defend him. People will keep throwing his achievements at you if you criticise him. I don’t mean you specifically but in general.But noone sees how football has evolved even in England. Let’s be honest.the Premiership is only starting to catch up to the technical standards of modern day football and that’s why we can’t afford to slip up in that dept anymore. Unfortunately we’re nosediving.
January 15th, 2010 at 18:41
@Traverse: Never heard of him being linked with us, unlike Arsenal, Real, Barca…
Defo agree about trimming the squad. Having a large good squad has its benefits, especially when coping with injuries, this is why maybe we are still second, but in the end the peak quality of the side as a whole suffers.
So, Fletch suspended tomorrow, and SAF mentioned that Berba will try to carry on till the end of season before considering surgery.
Our best side would probably be:
————–Kuzsz————–
Rafael—-Brown—-Evans—-Evra
Valencia–Carrick–Anderson–Giggs(?)
—————-Berbatov———
———-Rooney—————–
This side picks itself really, but I can easily picture Scholes starting and Park. Oh and Gibson and WElbeck…
January 15th, 2010 at 18:45
@NicoQB: I don’t know if you have noticed this mate but every papers online sites have ceased with their rumors placing a player with Manchester United. None of the rumor pages have any players being linked with United anymore. Even they realize that their stupid lies hold no water anymore if they link players to United. United is in a critical period financially and hasn’t got three pounds to burn on a player yet a lone a young starlet that is catching the attention of Real Madrid.
I am United thru n thru but to be honest, I may just stop watching and following the team for a while not out of disloyalty, but because it truly pains me and depresses me to see what has become of this once incredibly proud franchise. As many on here already know, before i became a Man Utd supporter back in 1976, I had already been a hard core Bayern Munich supporter. Right now I think I am going to lean on my German team to ease some of the pain and to divert my attention from the horror story taking place at Old Trafford. It’s nothing more than self preservation. I am powerless to stop what is happening and I am not going to let it kill me. It’s imperative that United fans who live in and around Manchester get off their asses and start making serious noise that will force the Glazer’s to sell. Frankly I find it disturbing as Hell that the loudest voices on all the blogs come from hard core fans who live outside of England. It’s time that English United fans start being heard and start mobilizing to force a takeover or a revolution of some kind before it’s too late and the club has had a complete financial collapse, has lost all it’s good players and has also lost Old Trafford as well. Watching the Titanic sink is not my idea of fun and being unable to do anything about it is similar to watching a loved one die.
To organizations like MUST, we put out faith and hopes that they can muster the kind of revolution that is necessary to take care of this problem. If we cannot take over the team, then another scenario would be a word wide drive for money to pay off the debt on the contingency that if the supporters of United could pay off the debt, the Glazer’s would be forced to sell the team to a buyer. That debt seems to be keeping this from happening. My God, this is just too much to bare.
January 15th, 2010 at 18:48
@Traverse: Considering the modern player is incapable of playing with pain, that is no longer a realistic thing to wish for. Long gone are the Bruce’s and Keane’s of the world who had to be severely injured in order to miss games. Nowadays a hangnail or a cut finger is enough for players to demand a day off. It wasn’t that long ago when teams fielded the same 11 all the time and only had two subs on the bench. I loved those times. You got used to the same starting eleven and they got used to each other.
January 15th, 2010 at 19:01
@Jay wire: That’s your opinion mate. I read it and respect but I’m sorry I do not agree with it. The game is a lot more complex than you think and our talent base is not as good as you think. The fact we are being forced to endure muppets like Park, Anderson and old goats like Scholes and neville on a continual basis indicates how precarious or situation is. Frankly we are not that good and our team is either too young in areas or too old in others. We do not have the middle group in age that is just right and good enough to lead this team. I am no fan of Fergie’s tactics and his rotation but there is method to his madness. The catenaccio you say is not working has actually been working like a charm. How on Earth would we have as good a defensive record if not for the tactic, considering we have been decimated by defensive injuries all season yet we maintain the best defensive record in the Prem? Ball control is the key and it has been proven a million times in the past that 8/10 games, the team with the majority possession wins games. So Fergie believes that we may not create many chances but by keeping the ball, we limit the opponents chances and with luck we put away a few chances of our own and steal a close win. He has had to rotate a lot of players and that alone makes it very hard for a team to gel, yet they do well enough to be four points behind Chelsea, in the semi finals of the Carling Cup and in the final 16 of the CL.
Look at Liverpool for evidence of how great Fergie is as a manager. Once put in a situation where his two stars were injured, Rafa had no answers on how to get the results with the group of players he has had at his service. Nothing seems to work at Anfield. And yet, he hasn’t had the defensive injuries to cope with that we have. At Liverpool it’s not just been a problem scoring goals, it’s been about giving up too many, despite the fact their defense and their GK have not had the same injury woes we have had. Rafa is a great example of just how superior a manager Fergie is. You forget that despite the questionable tactics and squad manipulations, that Fergie has nobody ahead of him when it comes to man managing. He motivates well and he scares enough of them into playing properly. Not full proof, but good enough that we are succeeding despite all the negativity. I have many issues with Fergie but I still think he is doing a great job, even though I personally do not like watching it due to the boredom it creates. Sometimes we just have to settle for the ugly girl who knows how to cook and clean.
January 15th, 2010 at 19:06
@Grognard: That’s your opinion, and I’m entitled to mine
January 15th, 2010 at 19:07
@Johnsom33: I’m with you Jonhnsom – Rooney is ROONEY thru and thru!
January 15th, 2010 at 19:11
@Grognard: Oh please go and take some chill pills mate. To try and turn Rooney massives off Rooney is like trying to raise back the fucking Titanic. Nevertheless I am not asking others to do that. Funny how you are the first person to claim eveyone has a right to their opinion – UNTIL IT CLASHES WITH YOURS that is. If you want to talk about arse wipes, look at yourself first!
January 15th, 2010 at 19:14
@Grognard: I’d throw a party for him if he wanted to go – because I think there are MILES better strikers than can replace him. That’s my opinion, so quit getting personal about me having my opinion. In my post comments I never made any personal jibes at anybody – check back thru yours Grog! Personal jibes regarding a player is what rants are all about, go ask RR if you don’t believe me!
January 15th, 2010 at 19:16
@Grognard: My Rooney hatred is not showing thru as you put it Grog, it is right out there because I have never tried to hide it. Would I rather have a FIT Fernando Torres than Rooney – YES I would, but that is just my personal preference, so get over it!
January 15th, 2010 at 19:20
@Grognard: I am also in a very small community who ARE NANI fans, so what’s the difference. I like who and what I like, and you can do the same. I am not asking you to dislike Rooney, nor am I asking any of the other Rooney massives, but I reserve my right to not like what I don’t like – Jeez its personal preference
January 15th, 2010 at 19:22
@ROOOOONEY: It’s not just the Sun mate, its been reported in other parts of the media. The Nani thing was tongue in cheek banter mate! I like to tease!
January 15th, 2010 at 19:24
@Grognard: I don’t suppose you watched the Villa Blackbun game last night. Semi 1st leg of the League Cup. Villa constantly have the smallest squad in the league, they have 3 English mifielders, and because they all play together every week they were brilliant. Their passing and running and counter attacking was old school United.
Milner in the middle, Young on one wing and Downing on the other and they reminded me of Keane (Milner) Giggs (Young) and Beckham (Downing) in the way they flew forward. They play together every week, they know where the other players are/will be, and they are alot closer as a unit.
January 15th, 2010 at 19:26
PlZ sell Rooney ,Berbatov and Nani.Around 100 million available and get Villa,Aguero and De Maria.Villa will score from 8 yards for every one or two chances unlikely Rooney who needs atleast four.Aguero can score from Free kick and outside the D area which Rooney will never.
January 15th, 2010 at 19:45
@CraigMc: teasing or not, i think you didnt get my point, when i said i was disgusted about selling rooney it is because we have to pay our debts not because of his wage demands ” which i think is fake”. its your opinion and you are entitled to it and believe what you want to believe.
January 15th, 2010 at 19:53
We need to trim down the squad, there are no doubts about that.. here’s how I’d do it.
DF : Sell Brown, O’Shea. Retire Neville. Buy an actual RB. We could afford to pay a real RB with he money we’d save on hose contracts! I’d go for Srna or Lahm.
1st team
New Vidic Rio Evra
Backup
Rafael Evans Cathcart Fabio
The backup are good enough, so play them if needed. That’s not including De Laet, Cory Evans, Dudgeon, Gill etc
CM : Retire Scholes. Probably the place where we are best set for talent, which is weird because we seem to be lacking through the middle a bit this season. Pick any 2 from Fletcher/Anderson/Hargreaves/Carrick but play them often. Gibson backup.
W : Retire Giggs. Sell Park, Tosic and Nani. We are MASSIVELY overstocked with average wideboys. Loose these 4 and buy a quality left winger. Obertan and Cleverly to deputise. If we need someone to do a more defensive job on the wing (why do we btw Fergie?) then play Hargreaves.
ST : We have 3 1st team strikers. Rooney, Berbatov and Owen. Diouf, Welbeck, Macheda are all decent back up. With hindsight would I spend the Berbatov money better? Yes. Is there much we can actually do about it now? Not really. Start Berbatov & Rooney with Owen/Diouf/Macheda as different options. Loan out Welbeck to a championship team who’ll play him as a striker and see if he develops.
8 OUT : 3 RBs, 1 CM, 4 W.
2 IN : 1 RB, 1 LW.
January 15th, 2010 at 20:36
@owen: That’s mental.
Villa – great player but on the wrong side of his career.
Aguero – constantly crocked right now.
Di Maria – very promising but unproven till now.
Plus, them being three foreigners, you can bet that there is definitely going to be difficulties in adaptation to play as a unit.
@Grognard: I know I did notice that since the news of our precariorious finanacial was laid bare for all to see, barely noone has been linked with us. Oh, yes a certain Rolando, a CB, at 18million£ from Porto. More chance for Steve Gerrard to join us I say.
January 15th, 2010 at 20:54
If someone feels he reserves the right to slag off Rooney he has the right to do so here. If others don’t like it they can ignore it and move on. No need to call names etc. for that.
There are no holy cows here.
PS: Craig is entitled to criticise players without being called a clown/arse-wipe and all such things.
PPS: I know a lot of you love Rooney and hate to see him criticised like that, but if some one does criticise, either argue it out without resorting to name calling or if you really find it that ridiculous, ignore it.
Remember, this will help you when you are attacked unfairly in future.
January 15th, 2010 at 20:58
@CraigMc: Yes you are but this time mate, yours is wrong. Sorry but I call it as I see it and you have lost your objectivity due to your dislike for Rooney. That’s fine, you are entitled but don’t think you can come on here bad mouth Roon and get away with it. He is a beloved player and a great player and frankly, I would think he has earned a lot more respect from even you. But like you say, you are entitled to your opinion as you are about Nani, which most people on here other than me disagree with you on as well.
January 15th, 2010 at 20:59
@CraigMc: Everybody is entitled to their opinion mate, but I am right. Hows that for honesty?
January 15th, 2010 at 21:01
@CraigMc: I wasn’t getting personal mate. I was just saying that this crusade you are on has no merit. Disagreeing with you is not getting personal. To say you are wrong over something is not getting personal. Did I call you any names mate? No I didn’t because first of all, you are a friend and secondly, I respect you. But to listen to this crap you are spouting about Rooney is annoying because it is factually untrue. His record and achievements speak for themselves. He has accomplished hundreds of more great things than Nani but the Lil Man is seen as a God by you. Now what the Hell is wrong with this picture?
January 15th, 2010 at 21:04
@CraigMc: He’s Manchester United’s best player mate and since United is your team, I would think you would show him a lot more love and respect especially since he has been nothing but loyal all these years.
January 15th, 2010 at 21:07
@CraigMc: It’s a personal preference? Fine, no problem with that, but why try to ram it down everyone elses throat. Three people in the entire republic of Mancunia might actually agree with you and I think two of them are staying in an asylum.
So you don’t like him, fine we get it. But bashing him incessantly is not accomplishing a thing other than making all of us who like you and respect your wisdom to think twice. Christ, if it was a crappy player I’d leave you alone but Rooney? Just don’t get it mate. 
January 15th, 2010 at 21:10
@Traverse: They are also the team that disappeared completely in the second half last season because their lack of depth burned them out. You still need more depth and cannot always play the same eleven every game out. Players need to be rested and they also get injured. I’d be all for three or four subs who regularly played assorted positions. What I don’t like is using a bench of 20 players.
January 15th, 2010 at 21:14
@ Grognard : By no way he is United’s best player.Vidic is United’s best player.The best player must remain consistent but as Eddy told Rooney is as inconsistent as Pregnant woman’s period.
January 15th, 2010 at 21:24
@ NicoQB :
1> Villa : will score 100 goals in 3 season for us playing with Aguero and Maria.Will refund you 20 million also if sold at 32 years ,no doubt.
2>Aguero : Best young prospect in Europe except Messi.A true all-round player with great technical ability ,great eye for goals ,creative and brings imagination.
3>De Maria: Great admirer of United ,very fast ,creative ,a horse for long race and consistent 15 goals per season player(if any doubt,ask Moyes)
More so these will make Carrick look good.so no need to get a midfielder then.
PIG
RAFAEL VIDIC RIO EVRA
HARGO FLETCHER CARRICK MARIA
AGUERO
VILLA
January 15th, 2010 at 21:35
@ Grognard : Dont dream that this time teams will disappear in 2nd half.That is not the case now.Spurs have good depth.City are not going to again draw 7-8 games.They will be getting stronger only and with new Manager have learnt how to win.O’Neal has done brilliant job this season to add some good players to their squad.
I think our squad only lacks the most where back up striker is Wellbeck.Berba will be most probably out due to operation.So Owen starting games.In Midfield Anderson and Gibson replaces Carrick who are useless.I dont think there is even a reason to discuss wings.That is laughable case.
So we have back up only at defence which has also been exposed this season.
January 15th, 2010 at 21:35
@Taehr: read that too
Evra-”I fear no-one. I only fear Manchester United.”
January 15th, 2010 at 21:50
@owen: You’re joking when talking like that about Villa.
20million for a 32 year old? Unless a player of Zidane-esque quality can’t see it.
I don’t doubt Aguero and Di Maria (I’m being a bit anal here, but do learning the proper spelling of a plyer’s name gives you more credence if you want to make an argument for them
)
but do not forget that they are LATIN players and judging from our history with them, most of our latin players need time to get accustomed to the playing style and gel in the team. Some, as of right now, have still yet to after three years with us!
That’s why I’ve been on the Krasic bandwagon as there’s less chance that he may fail.
100 goals in 3 seasons? THat’s 33 goals per season – for 1 player. And who will be the players who will contribute to 33 assists? Not forgetting other goals of other players too.
According to you we should sell a world class player already well fitted to the team (Rooney) and gamble on those and forget Centre Midifeld where we’ve not had real creativity since Scholes hit his menopause…
January 15th, 2010 at 22:11
@gator: Commented on this on ROM…
“I love Evra just like any other United supporting guy, but to say that the best united team performance was that sorry Barca match – Yes, the one with the Scholes scorcher where Barca had all possession and we were just happy to clear their assaults and hold on to the lead?
Yes, recently we won titles with the defence, but I don’t think people are going to look back at this side as a great, great side – except for the exploits of Ronaldo those past seasons. If anything in tactics needed fine tuning,its quite blatant that it should be in creating chances and attack.
Sorry, as much as I love Pat, I disageree with him.”
January 15th, 2010 at 22:16
@Grognard: I don’t think it did. Blackburn just played alot better. Also, Villa should have won that game 8 nil, and with someone other than Heskey in front of goal they would have done.
January 15th, 2010 at 22:19
@ NicoQB : How many goals Ronaldo scored in one season???I think it was 42.Then who provided the 42 assists.Check Villa’s goal tally for Valencia.I think it was around 30 goals only in the League( Here it will be FA Cup and CL also).Aguero and Di Maria have a lot of age on their side.Here i am not talking about replacing 1 world class player ( I doubt he is) with other but with that money plus that of two useless one, we will be getting 3 world class players of which two can give their best for 10 years.
Regarding Latin players : I hope you mean only Veron when talking about Latin players and forget the rest.What about Valencia.How much time he took.Tevez also took no time.On your theory we will not take Messi also as he is Latin.
January 15th, 2010 at 22:57
@owen: 42 assists?
Ronaldo’s talent was so phenomenal he beat teams entirely by himself.
You have to add around 10 penalties to it, which don’t really count as assists do they? I agree that Villa is a great striker, but in no way will he ever be a able to create his own chances like Ronaldo did, for instance taking a ball from one the edge of the wing and cutting inside before finishing – if O’shea passed the ball to him before hand I would be hard pressed to actually call that an assist.
As a matter of fact its well known that many of Ronaldo’s goal originated from none other than – Wayne Rooney. Another source of assists gone if Villa was to come, even though Wayne does play as the last striker nowadays.
@owen: Latin players who have not adapted at United: Veron, Nani, Anderson, Heinze (always thought he was overrated even in his supposed peak), Kleberson… The point here is that they need time to settle in good, and there’s even more
pressure on them since they are offensive players (if Anderson was not played as a defensive midfielder he would have received the same kind of lambasting Nani is used to)
Also Valencia is good. We’re looking for world class players there, considering the fees Aguero, Villa and Di Maria would commend.
As for Messi, let’s not make broad statements like that as he is a one in a decade talent, those kind of players are simply our of our reach nowadays – and the Barca system is made to fit him to a tee, cue his failure to perform with Argentina.
And lastly: Check good ole’ wiki: Villa averages around 25 goals in all comps a season. As I said, good, but at 28 I doubt he’ll be likely to keep hitting those figures, just look at Raul.
I agree that we need fresh world class talent, its just that you’ve picked the wrong ones in the wrong positions imho. And selling rooney is an aberration!
January 15th, 2010 at 23:49
@owen: And you would know about the inconsistences of woman’s periods HOW?
January 15th, 2010 at 23:52
@owen: Sorry mate but that’s BS. Rooney is our best player by a country mile. Vidic is great but Christ, he’s only a frakken defender for Christ’s sakes. He possesses no real skill with the ball. Rooney has tons of skill and vision but occasionally has the brain of a peanut. Nevertheless, he is one talent frakken nut.
January 15th, 2010 at 23:54
@Grognard: You don’t have to get it, its my opinion, and a blog is a place for people to voice their opinions – capiche?
. No you don’t have to like it, and I don’t care if you don’t! I am on a roll about Rooney, I don’t like the little fucker, with the EGO as big as the Mersey Tunnel! 
January 15th, 2010 at 23:55
@owen: Have you been sniffing the glue mate? We cannot afford toilet paper for the latrines at OT and you expect the team to buy Villa, Aguero and Di Maria? Even if we were to sell Rooney, that money would not go towards players and even if it did, you could not afford all three of those players. Christ Villa and Aguero are probably valued at around 50 million each and Di Maria’s buyout clause is estimated to be 40 million. Whatever that is you are sniffing, you should be kind and share with others.
January 15th, 2010 at 23:56
@Grognard: What you mean is in your opinion, and all the Rooney massive opinions he is United’s best player, but in my opinion HE ISN’T. Live with it, and just ignore my posts if you don’t like what I think and feel about Rooney!
January 15th, 2010 at 23:58
@owen: I didn’t say they would. You say “teams” which is plural. I was talking about Villa only. And Villa has done nothing to address their lack of depth and so yes, I expect them to slide back down this second half like last year. I do not expect a big slide by Spurs because they are a deeper team.
January 15th, 2010 at 23:58
@Grognard: Yes you did name call – ARSE WIPE is a name call, but it’s okay, as long as you look at your own arse mate!
January 16th, 2010 at 0:01
@owen: Ronaldo made most of his goals on his own brilliance mate. Not that many assists other than Nani. Trust me, we have no playmakers on this team and that is why I have said in the past that Gerd Mueller and Pele would starve playing for us these days. Denial is an awfully comfortable trait to have and a hell of a long river but it will not make the impossible come true.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:02
@Grognard: That’s because Lil Man is an indisputable God, and he has a character and personality I like, Rooney doesn’t! You like who you like, I have no problem with that, its you lot who have the problem with me liking Nani. Doesn’t stop me liking the lad though, as my comments don’t stop the Rooney massives liking him no matter what
January 16th, 2010 at 0:03
@Grognard: Very wrong
January 16th, 2010 at 0:03
@NicoQB: Well said about Ronaldo. I would ask some people on here to buy the 07/08 review dvd to see just how incredible Ronaldo was and just how he scored most of his goals on his own brilliance alone. He elevated us as a team to 50% more of what we are now, just by his presence on the pitch. The lad was a gift form the Gods.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:06
@Grognard: Hang on a minute, I have just called for the full orchestra and the Rooney violins after that comment
. “Here we go a loopy Lu, he we go a loopy li ” 
That’s the official Rooney song!
January 16th, 2010 at 0:07
@CraigMc: Craig, is it necessary to sound childish? I want you to slowly read what you wrote and tell me please if that sounds very mature? “No you don’t have to like it, and I don’t care if you don’t! I am on a roll about Rooney, I don’t like the little fucker, with the EGO as big as the Mersey Tunnel!”. Sorry mate but that just sounds so juvenile. I for one expect more from you as I have a great deal of respect for your thoughts and ideas but this Rooney crusade is just bordering on territory I have not walked on before. Be my guest, knock yourself out. I tried to talk senses to you and you have decided to follow your mind so that’s fine.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:10
@Red Ranter: My sentiments exactly RR ‘No Holy Cows’ that are untouchable here. Very commendable to you too, because I know you are a Rooney massive and probably think my comments are MAD too
January 16th, 2010 at 0:11
@CraigMc: Oh stop being such a WOMAN mate. So I am disagreeing with your somewhat childish crusade. Do you have to be so standoffish about it? Why the Hell should I ignore your posts and you ignore mine? I thought we were mates. Just because we completely disagree on something doesn’t me we have to act all offended and defensive about. Take my stick like a man because you always claim you have a really thick skin and can take as well as give it. Hell you don’t have to agree with me, but then again, I definitely don’t agree with you on this one matter. Now why make such a shit roast over one minor disagreement on points? It’s no big frakken deal mate, really. PEACE!
January 16th, 2010 at 0:11
@ROOOOONEY: We ALL believe what we want to believe – don’t we?
January 16th, 2010 at 0:14
@Grognard: I am talking about my Rooney posts mate – which you dislike so much, and not all my posts – jeez.
.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:15
@Grognard: Take you stick – I’m not that kinky mate
. But a man – yes, and one the missus is very pleased with 
.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:17
@CraigMc: Actually it was ass clown and please read this again and tell me if it was intended in a rude manner or as poking some fun at a friend? “No, right now the only ass clown I see is my good buddy Craig, who has his head up his arse so deeply, he is beginning to fell his back teeth. Seriously Bro, get off it already, it’s a pathetic dance you are doing.” Notice how I use words in the sentence to convey teasing and joking towards a friend? Seriously, when I consider the crap you have served up to me over the years, for you to get all uppity over this shocks the living crap out of me. I don’t know what’s ailing you these days Craig but somehow you seem to have lost you regular sense of humor.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:18
@CraigMc: Yes we know, Nani is a legend in your own mind.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:19
@CraigMc: And you go with that if it helps you sleep at night without the soother mate.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:19
@Grognard: Oh do give over on your oft silly comments “I expect more from you.” If you don’t expect anything, then you won’t be surprised when I vocally abuse your little pet bunny Roon the Loon! Anyway, I am tired of discussing this now, I am off to fight with somebody else like Red Rich who loves SABRE RATTLING and a good JOSTLE!
January 16th, 2010 at 0:20
@CraigMc:
January 16th, 2010 at 0:21
@CraigMc: You make it sound like you mean everything. At least that is how it comes across. I say lets just drop the Rooney talk because nobody is going to win the battle anyway.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:22
@CraigMc: I am reassured to here so. I was beginning to worry that you were a lesbian.
January 16th, 2010 at 0:23
@CraigMc: I take it that is a surrender then. YEAH I WIN
January 16th, 2010 at 0:28
RedRich – Nemanjah Vidic is a total tosser who should be sold in the summer post haste! He would be too, if United could raise more than a quid for his services
.