Jan 12
Media Avalanche of Glazer-Debt Stories Gathers Pace
The Guardian has been rattling off story after story on the Glazer debt, giving me an image of a press room chock full of Shakespearean monkeys rattling away feverishly at their keyboards. And, whilst some of them have gotten repetitive, quite a few of them have been good reads.
The blogosphere isn’t far behind though, and there is some good material going around over there too.
Leading off is, proper journalist David Conn’s piece, describing how the Glazer family have borrowed money from club coffers. The fact that our debt and the Glazer family debt is just about one and the same, being a fully family owned private entity, the club is sadly vulnerable to money being siphoned off without really being answerable to the fans.
That is a point made quite clear in the analysis in RoM; a pretty comprehensive analysis that weighs the pros and cons of the refinancing. However, an assertion made in the analysis — especially, the bit about the difference between Profit & Loss statement and Cash flow accounts — piqued my curiosity; in particular, this:
Similarly I read some comments on the lines of “If we had purchased Carlos Tevez for £25m, our profits would have been lower by £25m.” Again not correct. Players are the operating assets of a football club and any purchase made will reflect in the cash-flow statement and not in the Profit and loss statement [For context read the preceding paragraph too]
But does that mean we can buy player after player, yet not have it show in our P/L account? Isn’t money being spent (ie, leaving the club)? So isn’t this just accounting wizardry to make things look pretty? I am not an expert on accounting practices, so I’ll be grateful towards any expert who can shed more light on this.
The ever excellent football blog Pitch Invasion, sources an image via the Financial Times, giving a diagrammatic break-down of how the Glazers have ‘milked’ Manchester United.
United Rant reports on the existing fears on fans’ minds all along: that the Ronaldo money was mostly earmarked for debt.
* * *
A few thoughts on this whole situation:
Whilst most successful businesses can run with serviceable debt — in many cases, debt is a good indicator of growth for a business — the principles when applied for a football club is not sustainable in the long term. If the Glazers succeed it will be a miracle. And the exception. Not the rule.
The problem with such kind of ownership is the profits do not justify the investments. Other businesses grow by selling a product and being competitive by serving it. In football the product, as it were, is performance on the pitch, and an especially high performance level in United’s case to remain profitable. Very few clubs in major leagues in Europe are really that profitable. The Ronaldo money helped us to a profit. But how many Ronaldos do we need to sell every season? Also, the business model seems to rely on sustained period of success. Essentially that means it hinges on levels of human success/failure — be it the manager, or players, or poor transfer choices. That’s a lot of uncertainty if you think about it. [Not everyone has Ferguson. And even those who have a Ferguson, it's not forever.]
So it doesn’t take Sherlock-like deduction skills to conclude the Glazer style of ownership is terribly flawed. As are most bids to buying clubs with the intent of making profits. It was the case back in the time of Martin Edwards, and it will be so in the times of Hicks-Gillet, and the Glazers. And it was also true when we were in the stock market.
I am once again tempted to quote from Simon Kuper’s book, and I paraphrase, “Buying a football club is not a business decision, it’s philanthropy.” Only sugar daddies of the Abramovich or Al-Nahyan scale can expect to buy a football club and not break a sweat. So supporter-run ownership of the Barcelona/Madrid/Schalke scale is the way to go. But, unfortunately, with the amount of debts we are in, we can consign the “let-every-United-supporter-contribute-X-pounds” line of thought to the realms of fantasy. Even if supporters stumped up the cash, there would always be another investor looking to buy it off the Glazers.
* * *
When news broke about the issue of bonds, there has been talk of how the resulting lowered interest payments could mean money spent on transfers. In fact the Mirror are reporting that the Glazers have handed Ferguson £75m to spend. But haven’t we heard Ferguson and club spokesmen go on about how they have £80m to spend? So I’ll believe that when I see it.
Related items from Red Rants:
- United’s debt situation explained
- All Smoke, Little Fire on the Transfer Front
- No Smoke Without Fire at Old Trafford?
- The Glazer Financial Breakdown
- The Glazer Debt — Dark Truth or Mere Paranoia?
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@CraigMc: I wasn’t getting personal mate. I was just saying that this crusade you are on has no merit. Disagreeing with you is not getting personal. To say you are wrong over something is not getting personal. Did I call you any names mate? No I didn’t because first of all, you are a friend and secondly, I respect you. But to listen to this crap you are spouting about Rooney is annoying because it is factually untrue. His record and achievements speak for themselves. He has accomplished hundreds of more great things than Nani but the Lil Man is seen as a God by you. Now what the Hell is wrong with this picture?
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@CraigMc: He’s Manchester United’s best player mate and since United is your team, I would think you would show him a lot more love and respect especially since he has been nothing but loyal all these years.
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@CraigMc: It’s a personal preference? Fine, no problem with that, but why try to ram it down everyone elses throat. Three people in the entire republic of Mancunia might actually agree with you and I think two of them are staying in an asylum.
So you don’t like him, fine we get it. But bashing him incessantly is not accomplishing a thing other than making all of us who like you and respect your wisdom to think twice. Christ, if it was a crappy player I’d leave you alone but Rooney? Just don’t get it mate. 
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@Traverse: They are also the team that disappeared completely in the second half last season because their lack of depth burned them out. You still need more depth and cannot always play the same eleven every game out. Players need to be rested and they also get injured. I’d be all for three or four subs who regularly played assorted positions. What I don’t like is using a bench of 20 players.
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@ Grognard : By no way he is United’s best player.Vidic is United’s best player.The best player must remain consistent but as Eddy told Rooney is as inconsistent as Pregnant woman’s period.
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@ NicoQB :
1> Villa : will score 100 goals in 3 season for us playing with Aguero and Maria.Will refund you 20 million also if sold at 32 years ,no doubt.
2>Aguero : Best young prospect in Europe except Messi.A true all-round player with great technical ability ,great eye for goals ,creative and brings imagination.
3>De Maria: Great admirer of United ,very fast ,creative ,a horse for long race and consistent 15 goals per season player(if any doubt,ask Moyes)
More so these will make Carrick look good.so no need to get a midfielder then.
PIG
RAFAEL VIDIC RIO EVRA
HARGO FLETCHER CARRICK MARIA
AGUERO
VILLA
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@ Grognard : Dont dream that this time teams will disappear in 2nd half.That is not the case now.Spurs have good depth.City are not going to again draw 7-8 games.They will be getting stronger only and with new Manager have learnt how to win.O’Neal has done brilliant job this season to add some good players to their squad.
I think our squad only lacks the most where back up striker is Wellbeck.Berba will be most probably out due to operation.So Owen starting games.In Midfield Anderson and Gibson replaces Carrick who are useless.I dont think there is even a reason to discuss wings.That is laughable case.
So we have back up only at defence which has also been exposed this season.
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@Taehr: read that too
Evra-”I fear no-one. I only fear Manchester United.”
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@owen: You’re joking when talking like that about Villa.
20million for a 32 year old? Unless a player of Zidane-esque quality can’t see it.
I don’t doubt Aguero and Di Maria (I’m being a bit anal here, but do learning the proper spelling of a plyer’s name gives you more credence if you want to make an argument for them
)
but do not forget that they are LATIN players and judging from our history with them, most of our latin players need time to get accustomed to the playing style and gel in the team. Some, as of right now, have still yet to after three years with us!
That’s why I’ve been on the Krasic bandwagon as there’s less chance that he may fail.
100 goals in 3 seasons? THat’s 33 goals per season – for 1 player. And who will be the players who will contribute to 33 assists? Not forgetting other goals of other players too.
According to you we should sell a world class player already well fitted to the team (Rooney) and gamble on those and forget Centre Midifeld where we’ve not had real creativity since Scholes hit his menopause…
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@gator: Commented on this on ROM…
“I love Evra just like any other United supporting guy, but to say that the best united team performance was that sorry Barca match – Yes, the one with the Scholes scorcher where Barca had all possession and we were just happy to clear their assaults and hold on to the lead?
Yes, recently we won titles with the defence, but I don’t think people are going to look back at this side as a great, great side – except for the exploits of Ronaldo those past seasons. If anything in tactics needed fine tuning,its quite blatant that it should be in creating chances and attack.
Sorry, as much as I love Pat, I disageree with him.”
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@Grognard: I don’t think it did. Blackburn just played alot better. Also, Villa should have won that game 8 nil, and with someone other than Heskey in front of goal they would have done.
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@ NicoQB : How many goals Ronaldo scored in one season???I think it was 42.Then who provided the 42 assists.Check Villa’s goal tally for Valencia.I think it was around 30 goals only in the League( Here it will be FA Cup and CL also).Aguero and Di Maria have a lot of age on their side.Here i am not talking about replacing 1 world class player ( I doubt he is) with other but with that money plus that of two useless one, we will be getting 3 world class players of which two can give their best for 10 years.
Regarding Latin players : I hope you mean only Veron when talking about Latin players and forget the rest.What about Valencia.How much time he took.Tevez also took no time.On your theory we will not take Messi also as he is Latin.
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@owen: 42 assists?
Ronaldo’s talent was so phenomenal he beat teams entirely by himself.
You have to add around 10 penalties to it, which don’t really count as assists do they? I agree that Villa is a great striker, but in no way will he ever be a able to create his own chances like Ronaldo did, for instance taking a ball from one the edge of the wing and cutting inside before finishing – if O’shea passed the ball to him before hand I would be hard pressed to actually call that an assist.
As a matter of fact its well known that many of Ronaldo’s goal originated from none other than – Wayne Rooney. Another source of assists gone if Villa was to come, even though Wayne does play as the last striker nowadays.
@owen: Latin players who have not adapted at United: Veron, Nani, Anderson, Heinze (always thought he was overrated even in his supposed peak), Kleberson… The point here is that they need time to settle in good, and there’s even more
pressure on them since they are offensive players (if Anderson was not played as a defensive midfielder he would have received the same kind of lambasting Nani is used to)
Also Valencia is good. We’re looking for world class players there, considering the fees Aguero, Villa and Di Maria would commend.
As for Messi, let’s not make broad statements like that as he is a one in a decade talent, those kind of players are simply our of our reach nowadays – and the Barca system is made to fit him to a tee, cue his failure to perform with Argentina.
And lastly: Check good ole’ wiki: Villa averages around 25 goals in all comps a season. As I said, good, but at 28 I doubt he’ll be likely to keep hitting those figures, just look at Raul.
I agree that we need fresh world class talent, its just that you’ve picked the wrong ones in the wrong positions imho. And selling rooney is an aberration!
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@owen: And you would know about the inconsistences of woman’s periods HOW?
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@owen: Sorry mate but that’s BS. Rooney is our best player by a country mile. Vidic is great but Christ, he’s only a frakken defender for Christ’s sakes. He possesses no real skill with the ball. Rooney has tons of skill and vision but occasionally has the brain of a peanut. Nevertheless, he is one talent frakken nut.
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@Grognard: You don’t have to get it, its my opinion, and a blog is a place for people to voice their opinions – capiche?
. No you don’t have to like it, and I don’t care if you don’t! I am on a roll about Rooney, I don’t like the little fucker, with the EGO as big as the Mersey Tunnel! 
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@owen: Have you been sniffing the glue mate? We cannot afford toilet paper for the latrines at OT and you expect the team to buy Villa, Aguero and Di Maria? Even if we were to sell Rooney, that money would not go towards players and even if it did, you could not afford all three of those players. Christ Villa and Aguero are probably valued at around 50 million each and Di Maria’s buyout clause is estimated to be 40 million. Whatever that is you are sniffing, you should be kind and share with others.
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@Grognard: What you mean is in your opinion, and all the Rooney massive opinions he is United’s best player, but in my opinion HE ISN’T. Live with it, and just ignore my posts if you don’t like what I think and feel about Rooney!
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@owen: I didn’t say they would. You say “teams” which is plural. I was talking about Villa only. And Villa has done nothing to address their lack of depth and so yes, I expect them to slide back down this second half like last year. I do not expect a big slide by Spurs because they are a deeper team.
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@Grognard: Yes you did name call – ARSE WIPE is a name call, but it’s okay, as long as you look at your own arse mate!
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@owen: Ronaldo made most of his goals on his own brilliance mate. Not that many assists other than Nani. Trust me, we have no playmakers on this team and that is why I have said in the past that Gerd Mueller and Pele would starve playing for us these days. Denial is an awfully comfortable trait to have and a hell of a long river but it will not make the impossible come true.
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@Grognard: That’s because Lil Man is an indisputable God, and he has a character and personality I like, Rooney doesn’t! You like who you like, I have no problem with that, its you lot who have the problem with me liking Nani. Doesn’t stop me liking the lad though, as my comments don’t stop the Rooney massives liking him no matter what
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@Grognard: Very wrong
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@NicoQB: Well said about Ronaldo. I would ask some people on here to buy the 07/08 review dvd to see just how incredible Ronaldo was and just how he scored most of his goals on his own brilliance alone. He elevated us as a team to 50% more of what we are now, just by his presence on the pitch. The lad was a gift form the Gods.
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@Grognard: Hang on a minute, I have just called for the full orchestra and the Rooney violins after that comment
. “Here we go a loopy Lu, he we go a loopy li ” 
That’s the official Rooney song!
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@CraigMc: Craig, is it necessary to sound childish? I want you to slowly read what you wrote and tell me please if that sounds very mature? “No you don’t have to like it, and I don’t care if you don’t! I am on a roll about Rooney, I don’t like the little fucker, with the EGO as big as the Mersey Tunnel!”. Sorry mate but that just sounds so juvenile. I for one expect more from you as I have a great deal of respect for your thoughts and ideas but this Rooney crusade is just bordering on territory I have not walked on before. Be my guest, knock yourself out. I tried to talk senses to you and you have decided to follow your mind so that’s fine.
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@Red Ranter: My sentiments exactly RR ‘No Holy Cows’ that are untouchable here. Very commendable to you too, because I know you are a Rooney massive and probably think my comments are MAD too
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@CraigMc: Oh stop being such a WOMAN mate. So I am disagreeing with your somewhat childish crusade. Do you have to be so standoffish about it? Why the Hell should I ignore your posts and you ignore mine? I thought we were mates. Just because we completely disagree on something doesn’t me we have to act all offended and defensive about. Take my stick like a man because you always claim you have a really thick skin and can take as well as give it. Hell you don’t have to agree with me, but then again, I definitely don’t agree with you on this one matter. Now why make such a shit roast over one minor disagreement on points? It’s no big frakken deal mate, really. PEACE!
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@ROOOOONEY: We ALL believe what we want to believe – don’t we?
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@Grognard: I am talking about my Rooney posts mate – which you dislike so much, and not all my posts – jeez.
.
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@Grognard: Take you stick – I’m not that kinky mate
. But a man – yes, and one the missus is very pleased with 
.
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@CraigMc: Actually it was ass clown and please read this again and tell me if it was intended in a rude manner or as poking some fun at a friend? “No, right now the only ass clown I see is my good buddy Craig, who has his head up his arse so deeply, he is beginning to fell his back teeth. Seriously Bro, get off it already, it’s a pathetic dance you are doing.” Notice how I use words in the sentence to convey teasing and joking towards a friend? Seriously, when I consider the crap you have served up to me over the years, for you to get all uppity over this shocks the living crap out of me. I don’t know what’s ailing you these days Craig but somehow you seem to have lost you regular sense of humor.
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@CraigMc: Yes we know, Nani is a legend in your own mind.
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@CraigMc: And you go with that if it helps you sleep at night without the soother mate.
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@Grognard: Oh do give over on your oft silly comments “I expect more from you.” If you don’t expect anything, then you won’t be surprised when I vocally abuse your little pet bunny Roon the Loon! Anyway, I am tired of discussing this now, I am off to fight with somebody else like Red Rich who loves SABRE RATTLING and a good JOSTLE!
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@CraigMc:
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@CraigMc: You make it sound like you mean everything. At least that is how it comes across. I say lets just drop the Rooney talk because nobody is going to win the battle anyway.
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@CraigMc: I am reassured to here so. I was beginning to worry that you were a lesbian.
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@CraigMc: I take it that is a surrender then. YEAH I WIN
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RedRich – Nemanjah Vidic is a total tosser who should be sold in the summer post haste! He would be too, if United could raise more than a quid for his services
.
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@Grognard: Well I have got man boobs – does that count in the lesbo stakes?
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@CraigMc: You talking to me??
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@CraigMc: Vidic wants to bugger off to warmer climes mate, and the way he’s been playing lately, makes me think his heart’s not in it anymore.
Sell him, Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, Park, Tosic and use the money to buy some players that (a) want to play for United, (b) have an IQ above 50, and (c) have some fight and grit in their characters!!
It’s as somple as ABC.
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Found this half-term report by Tony Cascarino, and although I usually don’t see eye to eye with his spiel, I found his comments on United right in line with how I feel.
His point, that without Rooney we would be much further down the table, really hit home. Without him right now, we would be completely screwed.
He has the spark that so many great players have, and that’s what it takes to change the outcome of a game. Although he hasn’t been playing as well as he could of late, the thought of him moving on is just … unthinkable!!
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i just dont understand why any one would attack rooney. if ever there was a player that left every thing on the grounf than its rooney. we all know he’s an everton fan. but no one can tell me that he doesnt play for the shirt when he takes the field for united. he often sacrifices his game to make up for the lack of effort from players like berba. i repeat fergie must undo the mistake he made at the start of the season and rid himself of berba. saf has admitted that he doesnt know where to play berba. just on this admission even if he rated berba he should piss him off. berba is screwing up selection and team play. rooney has every right to ask for the market place payments. united must meet his demands and not try to undercut him. they must not piss rooney around like they with tevez. they cant make rooney look like a greedy player. if they cant meet his demands than they should say so and cop the blame to why a great club can no longer compete in the market place.
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@tom: I think it’s because Rooney has not played well on a number of occasions. His passing and finishing have been less than stellar, and his decision making has been mind boggling when he’s in on goal. Frankly he could have had, should have had 20 goals by now.
All that said, he is clearly a player who can turn a game in our favor with an instance of brilliance and a burst of aggression. Without him this team would be hopeless and guileless, and probably struggling to stay in the top half of the table.
If United can’t afford to pay him his new wage demands, I suggest they ship out some of the dead wood to accommodate him. Let him have his way here!!
On Berbatov – I just don’t know where to start, or probably when to end. Bottom line for me;- Good player, but lacks a heart and soul – Gutless, and without an ounce of fight in his entire body!!
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@CraigMc: It all depends if they are perky and if you are open to reach arounds.
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@ Grognard : Aguero has been offered to Chelsea for 30 million but the deal has not been finalized due to his wage demand.Villa will be for around 40 million.Rooney ,at 70 million,will cover these two.Nani + Berbatov sell will cover easily for Di Maria.
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@Redrich: I’d give Liverpool worse than “C-” if United are considered a “C”. I also think giving Spurs only a “B+” while giving Arsenal an “A” is a bit of a joke. Spurs deserves an “A” while the inconsistent Arsenal deserve nothing more than a “B” considering how often they have put themselves in the drivers seat only to stall the engine. I also agree with his assessment of United especially when he claimed that this was the worst United team in the Premier League era. No doubt about it.
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@tom: Never underestimate the audacity of people who are looking for attention. Rooney is the straw that stirs the drink. It’s not his fault that the drink this year has gone a bit sour.
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