Nov 28

Moyes confident the best is yet to come

Tag: Manchester United News @ 8:05 am

Ryan Giggs Jonny Evans Manchester UnitedDavid Moyes insisted he’s determined to enjoy more wins like last night’s 5-0 thrashing of Bayer Leverkusen and that best is yet to come for Manchester United this season.

An injury-depleted United arrived in Germany on the back of stuttering start to the season and facing a team that a lost just once in the last 12 games in all competitions, but the Reds produced a superb performance, putting the host to the sword from the start and ran riot throughout the games, scoring five goals and securing a spot in the knockout stage of the Champions League.

A point at home against Shakthar Donetsk in the remaining group game will ensure United qualify as group winners and David Moyes is determined to ensure last night wasn’t a one-off occasion.

“It was one of my best days as Manchester United manager but the best days are still to come,” said the United manager.

“There will be better days to come. We won well, we played well, with some outstanding performances. To come to Germany and win 5-0, and they have a great record here in Leverkusen, puts it in perspective as well.”

The decision to start Ryan Giggs in midfield was borne out of necessity, but the Welshman produced a vintage performance, orchestrating the game spectacularly and earning his manager’s praise. “People mention his age but all you should mention is his football ability,” continued Moyes.

“He is an unbelievable footballer. You could say he is getting better. His vision, his pass for Nani’s goal: you wouldn’t have said he needed to come off. He is a wonderful player and I am really fortunate to be working with him.”

“Ryan will tell us when he has had enough or when he thinks his time is up. He keeps training day in, day out, keeps playing and I think his performances since I came here have been excellent. He’s been great,” said Moyes when asked how long Giggsy, who turns 40 tomorrow, can go on playing.

Giggs himself is convinced that despite recording their biggest away win in the European Cup for 56 years, United could have scored a couple of more goals, such was the threat they carried when counterattacking.

“I think our speed [was the difference],” said the United number 11. “The first goal was a good example: quick play. It was a pleasure to play behind our front four.”

“We could have scored more but we can’t be too greedy. To score five anywhere in Europe is a great result. Going into a game knowing a win puts us through is a carrot and the five goals and a clean sheet is a bonus. It was a pleasure.”

An injury to Robin Van Persie meant Moyes was forced to deploy Wayne Rooney as main striker, which allowed the United manager to play Shinji Kagawa in the number 10 position, where he thrived, creating chances and displaying an excellent understanding with Rooney, which pleased Moyes.

“I said at the start of the season that sometimes Wayne might have to play up front and Shinji in behind when Robin [van Persie] is injured. I thought Shinji played really well tonight, he was excellent, but he has been excellent when he’s played off the left as well. We have some really good players.

“Wayne does not need a rest just now but I will be watching for any signs that he does, which is why we need people in form and fit. I will keep him as fresh as I can but he is one of these players who is probably better playing. I don’t want to find myself losing him for five or six games somewhere in the season.”


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Tags: Manchester United News

50 Responses to “Moyes confident the best is yet to come”

  • “I thought Shinji played really well tonight, he was excellent, but he has been excellent when he’s played off the left as well.”

    Umm No Moyes, he hasn’t been excellent off the left.
    He’s been good, but not excellent.
    Excellent is when you put him in the hole.

    Please stop playing him on the left.
    Putting Shinji on the left is like you trying to manage with only one eye.

    Hope you see the difference.

  • Looks like David Moyes learned nothing from Shinji Kagawa’s great performance at number 10.

    From the sounds of things in this interview he fully intends to shift Kagawa to the left and play Rooney in the hole when RVP returns.

    What a plain manager we have.

    This guy has no clue. . .

  • I’m pleased for Moyes took over a almost impossible task of taking over from Sir Alex and it was obvious it would take time to settle no matter who it was.some have had thier knives out from day one it’s time people get off his back and let him do his job because he’s a quality manager.Sir Alex asked all the fans to support him and that’s the last thing some ‘fans’ have done :oops: 8) 8) 8)

    • @wayne: If he made better decisions I would get off his back.

      If he knew more about modern day football I would get off his back.

      If he was half the manager Ferguson was I would get off his back.

      If Ferguson didn’t make a mistake by choosing a rubbish manager in the first place I would get off his back.

    • @wayne: If we had picked a more sophisticated manger, someome who had an appreciation of modern football, it would not have taken time to settle. It’s taking time because Moyes lacks the skills necessary to get the best out of, let’s not forget, the current Premier League champions. A bit like putting thoroughbred race horses in the hands of someone more used to working pit ponies.
      Martinez, Laudrup, Poccettino all had their teams playing smart, attacking, intelligent football in a very small amount of time. It’s taken (taking) Moyes an etternity to get to grips with us.
      If you’re happy with what you’ve seen from United this season, great, i’m happy for you. I’m not. We’ve been shit for the most part and i blame Moyes for that. He’s turned us into an average team that’s easy to play against.
      Wednesday was a great result and hopefully a sign of things to come. But i’m not popping the champagne corks just yet. We played with some key changes to personell and playing positions on Weds., and like The Philosopher and others, i’m not convinced Moyes learnt anything on Weds. Despite the obvious changes.
      Time will tell. But stop preaching about how other fans should react to Moyes’ approach. Do you think attacking other United fans makes you some sort of “Top Red”?
      When he *earns* my respect, he can have it. But i’m not giving it to him because someone told me to.

  • So when RVP is fit and Kagawa is number 10 Rooney who’been Utd’s best player should be put on the left wing lol.This is Man Utd and it’s up to Kagawa to adapt.Its ok saying Moyes doesn’t have a clue simple fact is Kagawa’s main problem has been his consistency and coming to terms with the prem.One good game in a 5-0 thrashing isn’t a season and displacing Rooney is his current form to accommodate Kagawa makes no sense

    • @wayne: If you can’t see that Kagawa is a better number 10 than Rooney then there’s no hope for you. . .

      • Sometimes arguing is pointless so I agree with what you saying. It is a little acknowledged fact that Kagawa played a combined 45 minutes in the first 7 games of this season. If Rooney had the same experience would he be in form and as sharp as he is now? No chance. It is a rarely acknowledged fact that everytime Kagawa plays centrally for however short a period,he plays well and more importantly,the whole team including Rooney plays well. Everytime. It is also clear that Kagawa is a better more rounded trequartista than Rooney. It’s clear. So what adaptation does Kagawa need to do? We play better as a whole team when he plays behind the striker. Rooney looks just as dangerous if not more dangerous with Kagawa behind him. We are less predictable,and look extremely dangerous on the counter. This is based on the observations we have had every single time Kagawa got even a brief chance in that role. Sociedad when Chicharito came off. Leverkusen first leg he started drifting in as the game progressed. In fact all our best passages of play have come with Kagawa in the hole. So in fact the reality is Kagawa is the better playmaker and Rooney should be the one who moves over to allow someone more suited to the role to play there and he should adapt somewhere else in attack. In fact the one who should be adapting is Moyes. He needs to change his rigid tactics to allow both Rooney and Kagawa to play optimally together with RvP without inconveniencing any one of them. That’s the true sign of managerial skill. How to fit Bale and Ronaldo in the same team. How to fit Neymar and Messi within the same team without disadvantaging the other. We did it once with Tevez and Rooney. Rooney played just off Tevez on the left with Tevez the CF. It worked well. So the onus is not on Kagawa or Rooney or RvP but Moyes. If he continues to fail to combine his best players optimally then he should respectfully resign. It’s so simple.Wenger has done it with Ozil and Carzorla. Benitez did a good job with Oscar,Hazard and Mata. So it’s not rocket science. There is no need to play a player out of position. A real coach with the right skills would have figured this out in preseason.

        • @Jay Wire: Well said.

          I agree. David Moyes from where I’m sitting doesn’t look smart enough to figure it out himself that Rooney and RVP are not our best partnership.

          It is as if Moyes thinks “Well RVP is the best striker in the league and Rooney is one of the best strikers in the league so together they should be awesome!” Without looking at the obvious details of the situation and seeing that Rooney is not a number 10. :roll:

          How dumb and elementary.

          What other elite top 5 club in the world would use Wayne Rooneys as their trequartista? 8-O

  • That is an incredibly silly thing to say. “if you consistently slag of the manager you are not a fan”. What nonsense and exceeding great rubbish. If the manager is consistently messing up then we have the right to consistently slag him. After all that would be in line with consistency. David Moyes,Alex Ferguson,Matt Busby are or were all HUMAN employees of Manchester United. The biggest sign that they all have limitations is the simple fact that none of them can be here forever. They all came to Old Trafford and found it already in existence. Some of these managers are already dead and resting in the illustrious passages of history. The point is they are no different to the fan who buys a season ticket every year,or one that commits hundreds of hours on the internet and in pubs for a chance to be associated with Manchester United. In fact I have more respect for a fan than I have for a manager because the fan pays the manager with their hard earned money. No one pays the fans. Managers get large sums of money and can easily move elsewhere and start a war of words against their old employers ala Pep,Mourinho,Phelan. So I have no sympathy for a manager. He has to earn respect not just have it handed to him because his predecessor said so.No thanks. He has to do the right thing. I don’t have the patience to watch him learn on the job unless he shows some form of potential and unique managerial talent. Even then he cannot be immune to criticism. I also want to put this very important thought to everyone. I think we can all agree that no manager, Ferguson included,would manage for free or even for subsistence level wages. They all want to be paid millions. I have no problem with that at all. That’s not to mean they want to see the club suffer. Their greatest desire is for the club to prosper because the success of the club is directly related to their own personal success, financial and otherwise. But can we not say the same thing about the eternally hated and criticised Glazer family. It’s simple logic. They want United to prosper and succeed and will do everything they can to make that happen because if the club succeeds and prospers,they succeed and prosper. Simple. But they are constantly criticised and attacked. Without leadership the club will simply perish so whether you like it or not,they are absolutely critical to the survival of the club. If somehow the club becomes leaderless,then chaos will reign and Manchester United will cease to exist. But most of you hate them and criticise them. No one calls you a plastic fan,but they are just as important as the manager and coaches. You don’t agree with their leadership style and you make it known daily with some incredible hate language. But if someone does that they are considered true fans.There is no difference between the Glazers and David Moyes. They are all part of the club’s leadership together with Woodward. Only difference is they perform different tasks. If you don’t like the way the Glazers lead you have a right to criticise. If I don’t like the way Moyes leads, I have a right to criticise however often I feel I should.Ferguson said we should all get behind the manager and people blindly follow and agree,but he also said the same about the Glazers and has publicly backed them so many times. So why not blindly follow that instruction too? In fact if you also show support for the Glazers you are regarded as a traitor. But was this not Ferguson’s wish? The simple point here is we need to use common sense and logic. I don’t like Moyes’ leadership and I will criticise him

  • Jay why are you posting the same comment on different threads I’ve replied to you on the other thread

  • Oh ok mate yeah you’re right Rooney’s been shit all year Moyes should drop him.What I don’t get fans who are obessed with Kagawa always blame his erratic form on playing out of position but he plays on the left for Japan,someone want to explain that to me

    • @wayne: Are you aware that formations have different tactical permutations? This is the problem with these kind of debates. People don’t get the difference between tactics and formations. Simply put,the following players generally play “on the left” :


      Now hopefully you have watched these players at one point or another. I can think of at least 6 different roles that are played by these players. Inverted winger,LAM,LF,LW,LM,interiore. But they all play “on the left”. Positioning means nothing in football that is why you see me using words like “role”. Kagawa is not a winger,simple as that. United play a very wide system that is based on 90s football that places an emphasis on crossing. It’s suited to the style of players like Valencia or Lennon or even Townsend. That’s why everytime Kagawa starts drifting in field more Moyes is quick to make the change. If you play a wide system,it requires the left sided midfielder aka the winger to stay wide because if he keeps drifting in the whole left quadrant is exposed putting pressure on the left back and the deepest,lying CM usually the holding midfielder. So playing on the left for Japan is not the same as playing on the left for United

  • Will moyes be brave enough to make the decision to keep kagawa in the hole on sunday or resort back to what we’ve had to put up with previous?.The debate about kagawa’s role in the team has gone on since he joined the club.If rvp is fit, moyes has got to, for the general good of our play, put someone’s nose out of joint. If it means bruised egos and toys out of prams, tough . Last night we got a Reglimpse of how good we could be attack wise, playing a genuine playmaker in his true position.This obsession with square pegs and round holes has just gone to far.the midfield is an exception, granted, due to our lack of resources, but up front, there’s know excuse. We can’t stifle another players career by just shoving him in the team anywhere, then complain when he doesn’t perform.kagawa is a no10, end of . Remember, Anderson was considered probably the best cam of his generation back in Brazil and at porto until fergie decided, in his infinite wisdom, to try and convert him into a box to box midfielder, which he never was and never will be. Andersons fitness issues and attitude has never helped his cause, but he’d of had more chance of success at utd playing in his true role. Just don’t want to see kagawa end up in the same situation as Anderson, just to accommodate a few egos.

    • @THE RED BARON: Well said mate.

      Totally agree.

      Kagawa is clearly better playing in the hole.

      It’s also pretty obvious that the team plays better when he is in the hole.

      What’s in Moyes’ head that he can’t see it?

      • @The_Philosopher: Seems common knowledge to most utd fans, we nead a genuine playmaker in the no10 role for us to develop as a team, yet without injuries, would we of realistically played kagawa in his true position last night without rvp injury?, sadly no as you’ve previously said.Moyes has got to grow a pair of balls and do what’s Wright for the team and not for players egos.let Rooney and rvp fight it out for the job up front but for ffs play a genuine playmaker behind.we had a taste of that last night and to me thats just how we should be evolving. What concerns me is would moyes be prepared to make the unpleasant decisions for the good of the team?.probably find out Sunday.

  • Jay please don’t be condescending and what your saying is simply not true.the reason Kagawa has been getting subbed off he’s had fitness and stamina issues.He came back to camp late and has had injury issues added to the fact at the beginning of the season there’s a lot of international breaks.Kagawa flying half way a round the world to play mid week friendlies is hardly going to be sharp for a weekend game
    All these things are reasons why Kagawa has been brought on slowly this season but of course the Moyes detractors never take any of these into account.

  • Don’t even understand that question what has Rooney got to do with Kagawa being given extra holidays because he’d been playing most of the summer and had injury issues when he came back to camp.One of Kagawa’s biggest problems so far has been adapting to the pace and phisycality of

  • Sorry have a new touch pad phone and its doing my head in posted before I was finished,my point was the fact one of Kagawa’s biggest problems is his stamina and strength and then coming back from a long summer injured he had to be brought back slowly.The prem is a different animal to any other league and Kagawa is a work in progress.Most people are basing how good he is on his Dortmund form and is much more suited to the CL.

    • @wayne: True. A lot of the hype comes from the Dortmund era.

      But you would think any manager worth his salt would give him a chance.

      Extend him some credit instead of writing him off like Moyes has done.

      Give him a decent run of games to get him up to speed not to prove himself. I hate Moyes’ skeptical comments about Kagawa “I keep hearing how good he is” Moyes said the one time. It’s like he doesn’t agree but because people say it so much there must be something to it.

      And now last night Moyes thinks Kagawa has been just as good playing on the left as when he plays in the hole. Giving Shinji Kagawa to a manager like David Moyes is casting pearls before swine. (Yes in this metaphor Moyes is playing the part of the swine)

      Moyes hasn’t got a clue.

      If Moyes thinks that Kagawa still needs to prove himself then he is a more than crap manager.

    • @wayne: If kagawa’s main problem is his strength and stamina,surely it the job of the fitness coaches and medical team to get him a strength and cardio course to address these issues?.in all other forms of contact sports these issues would be addressed so why not at utd?.There’s just more to it than the issues highlighted. The same problem ferguson had.How do you fit Rooney, rvp and kagawa into the side in their true positions without disturbing the balance of the team.Up to moyes to show he’s capable of sorting this condrum or is he gonna go back to his comfort zone?

  • @Wayne

    You are the one who leaves yourself open to dissection because you saying stuff without factual back up. You are the one who was saying Kagawa “plays on the left for Japan so what’s the problem”. So my response was appropriate. The left side of attack and the left side of midfield are totally different things but essentially similar starting physical positions. Even within the individual concepts there could be hundreds of variations. Ronaldo and Ribery both play ” from the left” but the tactical concepts are completely different. Iniesta plays from the left side of midfield and attacks from there. Pogba also but with a different arrangement. So you can’t just say Kagawa plays on the left for Japan and pass it off as a factual basis for justifying his United position. Manchester United and Japan play a completely different game. In fact at Dortmund, Kagawa initially played from the left and only moved central due to,Gotze’s long term injury. But do Dortmund and Manchester play similar tactics? No.So your arguement becomes completely irrelevant. Attack and midfield are completely different things. I hear people arguing just how good Ronaldo is because he is a winger who scores so many goals. No. Ronaldo stopped being a winger in 2006. Tactics evolved and he was transformed to become a LF. He does not hug the touchline or put in cross after cross. He is given licence to attack goal directly but from a left side position. Di Maria provides the width control from the right. So to generalise in football is highly erroneous due to the great diversity of tactical concepts individually and from a team perspective.

    Now to the apparent fitness and injuries that have apparently been the main reasons for Kagawa’s non participation. Honestly, 45 minutes in the first seven games is an appalling excuse for resting a player. One. Kagawa played like what 3 games at the ConfedCup. Does this justify a three and a half month “holiday”? Rooney had just above zero preseason minutes so was technically less fit. And we all know just how unfit Rooney can be at the start of the season. Injuries. Kagawa had one injury that lasted less than a week and the following game he was ruled out by a flu virus. That’s it. I would like to see RvP being sidelined till New Year sincr he has been struggling. No. They will give him painkillers. The trutj is there is no room for finesse and elegance in Moyes world. That’s why he prefers physicality over skill and intelligence. If he could he would have Fellaini behind RvP. Rooney is very physical in his approach so to Moyes there is no contest for that role. That’s why at Everton he had Tim Cahill behind Yakubu. Physicality. Then Fellaini. That’s what he believes in. So the real reason Kagawa has not been playing much is because Moyes is not a fan. That’s it. I said it before and so did The Philosopher. The only way Kagawa plays in the hole is when someone gets injured. Either Rooney or RvP. Moyes will never willingly make that decision no matter what.

  • Mate there’s a lot of fans who still think Kagawa has to prove himself with Utd,Sorry if you’re going to constantly slag off Moyes have no respect for you as a Utd fan just because you keep calling him crap and shit doesn’t make him so and quite frankly just shows your narrow minded ignorance.Dont know you and have only just started using this site but I’m prepared to bet you’ve been on Moyes case from day 1
    Every ABU and opposing fan are all shitting on Moyes as Utd fans we should be showing support and heed Sir Alex’s words otherwise just as bad as everyone who hates Utd

    • @wayne: I will be honest with you I was excited the day Moyes took over I thought “Nice we’ve got us a new gaffer. Maybe he will bring some fresh new ideas to the club.”

      But then we started sucking on pre-season and I made a fuss about it. I just didn’t understand why we weren’t beating these smaller clubs. . .

      Fast forward to the beginning of the season, Wilfred Zaha and Adnan Januzaj have had amazing pre-seasons and we’re all hoping to see them feature in our new look Man Utd but bafflingly Moyes parks them both and pulls out Ashley the fairy Young and boring one dimensional Tony V (who practically had no pre-season) to start off his campaign.

      I did not like that but after some thought I figured “Oh it’s a tough job you can’t blame the guy for going with experience” (although his experienced players were also still losing games)

      I wasn’t too impressed by the way we were losing as well. Taking off attacking players in the final minutes to try see out the game or limit the damage. And I voiced my displeasure.

      My opinion of Moyes was formed by his action or inaction. I was willing to accept him even with his lacklustre history.

      Eventually once the baptism of fire was over Moyes decides to bring Januzaj back into the first team fold and he gives the kid a couple games. 10 points for David Moyes.

      And the games got a little less boring once the kid came in.

      But no Wilfred Zaha. (Like we just didn’t need any more excitement and freshness around here)

      And everthing was all about Wayne Rooney. That’s fine cause Rooney did nothing but carry the team.

      All the while we played some pretty crap football and Shinji Kagawa had to park on the bench for a lot of games.

      And now we’re here. But Wilfred Zaha has still not seen much competitve football.

      I don’t think much of David Moyes for neglecting a talent like Zaha.

      I don’t think much of David Moyes for having no appreciation for a skillful player like Kagawa.

      I don’t think much of David Moyes for doing stupid things like over training RVP or over paying for Fellaini or actually believing he could get Fabregas.

      And I don’t think much of David Moyes for being more interested in physical football (and introducing harder running regimes in training for example) than thinking/finesse football.

      I would have preferred a more continental manager than old school Dave. If I’m not allowed to vent my frustrations at what I believe to be the backwards decisions he makes then I’m not sure that I am the one who is narrow minded.

      Do you think everybody thinks like you?

      I can’t be different to you and still be a United fan?

      In my opinion Moyes is tired and boring and has little to no clue about what the words invention and imagination mean.

      I don’t think that I have to support him just cause Fergie said so. I think Fergie made a mistake. Does that exclude me from being a fan?

      I long for the day we get a better manager. Does that make me disloyal?

      Anti-United cause I don’t buy into Fergie’s mini me?

    • @wayne: It’s obviously clear that we are from two extreme schools of thought although you do contradict yourself. You claim to be a true supporter by implication and also imply that true support is displayed by showing support for the manager and heeding to the words of Sir Alex Ferguson. Unfortunately I don’t agree. I don’t have any criteria by which true fans should be judged and frankly don’t care. But the truth is your philosophy is thoroughly hypocritical. If you heed Ferguson’s words you ought to fully back and support the Glazers. Can you please openly declare your support then for consistency. I’m basing this on your words. We ought to heed the words of Ferguson. On the assumption that I have been on Moyes back since day one,it is untrue but irrelevant. I didn’t want him to come but I tried to see what would happen. I have always been against the recent years policy of inferiority complex disguised as humility. I have always believed and continue to believe that United is one of the very best sports entities in the world. I expect the very best in everything. They always said it. When Ferguson resigns he will be replaced by a top manager even going on to insist that there is no room for inexperienced candidates. I didn’t fully agree with that but I thought that at least meant they are looking to bring someone with experience in winning things. I was hopeful it would not be Mourinho but the point is that is the calibre of manager they were portraying. So to hear that Moyes is taking over was a bit disheartening but I accepted but laid a simple demand. There has to be justification to this. What followed was one of the most disastrous takeovers I have ever seen. The level of inexperienced displayed was appalling but what drove me nuts was the complete display of incompetence. That to me is unacceptable for a club like United. Moyes has no experience managing a club of United’s calibre. So why did they hire him when they insisted that they would make sure the replacement would be fully qualified?

  • The Red Baron that’s what I meant by a work in progress it takes time look how much DDG has improved with strength training but it doesn’t happen overnight.Kagawa is small and frail and up to recently was getting caught with the ball a lot and was having issues with the pace.Jay makes sweeping statements that Moyes doesn’t like Kagawa which is just unfounded and he talks about me not being factual lol.Moyes has been taking shit and abuse from day one and is under immense pressure so it only makes sense he’s going to start the season with true and tested players like Rooney and RVP.Both Kagawa and his agent came out with statements about his injury add that to his travels with Japan makes perfect sense why he wasn’t used early on in the season.Moyes has been spot on in the way he’s handled this.Rooney has been immense for us this year against the Gunners was like having 3 men yet Kagawa has one good game all year and all of a sudden he’s a much better number 10 than Rooney,its just nonsense :idea: :arrow:

    • @wayne: If kagawa is so small and frail, dont you think this would of been in fergusons initial scouting reports?.Ferguson and his coaching staff seen something in him that could take this team forward, so obviously thought he was also up to the physical demands of playing week in week out in pl.i mean he’s not exactly a china doll and the bundesliga is some league to ply your trade, so just think to much is made about his lack of physicality.i just believe its down to a different manager with a different philosophy for a lack of playing time. I still of the opinion ferguson intend to get shut of Rooney and play kagawa in his desired position behind rvp if he would of carried on.thata just my view though!

  • After Shinji’s display last night, it only takes an irrational manager to play him as a left winger and it is obvious DM fancies playing Shinji wide from what he said. Oopssssssss.

  • If the club are stupid enough to give Ferguson and Charlton the decision for manager recruitment, then both of the aforementioned should do the honourable thing and put on their slippers. Fergie recommended McLeish (another fellow Scotsman surprise, surprise) for the Birmingham job and Charlton didn’t fancy Mourinho because he didn’t *like* him (this could have been Pep or Klopp, same point)?!? Legendary manager and player respectively, but complete madness to entrust them with such a monumental task.

    The United way is incredible attacking football, infused with flair and unpredictability, bullying and then dominating opposition with arrogance and conviction. Creating a siege mentality in the face of adversity and win (not draw) at all costs attitude. Moyes lacks all of the aforementioned, and cannot instill those qualities in his squad. The little belief that the squad have in themselves is a remnant of the recently ended Ferguson era, and will soon evaporate at this rate.

    ‘Kagawa plays well from the left as well’? Well then David, play him hugging the left touchline and tell him to whip in cross after cross until the ball hits someone’s head and flies in, I’m sure that will work wonders at White Hart Lane :roll: Unfortunately yesterday gave me hope when we were literally forced to field a functional attacking system (monkeys, typewriters and all that) and where there is hope there is a great danger of disappointment. Against my better thinking, I am filled with expectation for the weekend as are fellow reds, the least you owe us is a display that you have learned SOMETHING in your time here.

    • @Moscow: Well who would you have preferred to have had the job to select the new manager, Woodward and Avram Glazer? In fairness Mcleish did win the League Cup, with Birmingham… Mourinho hardly covered himself with glory last season at Real and is 2 points worse off this season than Di Matteo was at Chelsea who was sacked… You also say “The United way is incredible attacking football, infused with flair” Mourinho is hardly known for that. But lets not get into a long winded debate, his record is certainly better than Moyes, who’s football at Everton was lets say “direct”
      The debate seems to be based around Moyes and Kagawa. The Japanese is a super player, again like Matta probably not a Mourinho player, but I digress. The main issue at United is we have Rooney, on top of his game and arguably the best striker in Europe, RvP.
      I agree for me Moyes was hired by Fergie because of his Nationality. He has no proven track record,but he was hardly “useless” and did a decent job at Everton with consistent top 6 finishes. But he has never won a pot, which is what we do at United. Kagawa has been exceptional in spells, generally in Europe but has struggled with the physicality of the Premiership. He has also not had a consistent run in the side as a number 10. My feelings were that Fergie signed him to play behind Rooney, not really believing there were any chance of us signing the Dutchman. Moyes wants to play RooVP as his first choice and I am sure a lot of managers would. Rooney isn’t a number 10 as some think, he is a 9.
      The issue with Moyes is that he never seems to learn. Sunday is a massive game, if he plays the same formation then progress may be made, if he goes with Chicharito or even worse Welbeck then he hasn’t. What annoys many Reds is this sitting on a one goal lead mentality. United even under Fergie were useless at that. Moyes is a pragmatist, he is not adventurous hence he has never won things. To win things, you need to be a gambler, Moyes certainly isn’t. Also way do we need to hire someone who needs to learn? He is being paid £5.5m a year on a year contract, this equates to £33m in all, for apprenticeship!
      Guardiola was the stand out choice. Fergie said he knew in December he was leaving, why did we not move heaven and Earth get get him? United needed to move in a different direction, not a wannabe Fergie, a poor mans Fergie. We need to adopt a more European attitude, revolutionise. Under Moyes we have a decent guy, but hardly some who is going to organically move the club forward. He obsession with Everton is frustrating and hearing we are going in for Baines in January makes me want to spontaneously combust. Evra is our vice captain and scored more than Welbeck and surely he must learn from the disaster which is Fellaini, sorry Moyes doesn’t learn, the £33m apprentice is too entrenched in his own comfort zone…

  • Philosopher has been prognosticating on the idea that it is only when people are out injured that others get a chance and that somehow that’s a positive. Whilst we don’t want injuries there is, of course, some truth in this – although whether its a positive overall is highly dubious. The issue is, does the absence of players periodically and thus others getting a chance actually benefit the team? I don’t think so. Every manager will say he wants a full squad to choose from and indeed to have one’s best players available for most of the time is ideal, if not always attainable. This brings me to the point made by Philosopher about Wednesday’s performance where due to injury to RVP which meant Rooney playing the sole striker and to Carrick which gave an opening for Giggs to start, that it resulted in a vastly improved performance. Leaving aside Bayer’s awful showing which allowed United to play, what I think is relevant is that maybe Moyes is happier with less choice. After all he was used to a smaller squad at Everton. When confronted with greater options eg how to fit Kagawa in when both RVP and Rooney are available, that’s when difficulties arise. Only a theory!

    • @Julian: David Moyes is a little man. And he knows very little about the kind of football the elites play.

      Had Moyes been given the chance to field RVP and Rooney together you can bet your bottom dollar Kagawa would have been on the left wing or on the bench with Januzaj in his place.

      With a full squad Moyes can’t think straight. Fate had to select his squad for him on Wednesday.

      I maintain that Kagawa, Januzaj and Jones should be our first choice midfield trio with Rooney, RVP and Zaha Playing ahead of them.

      But that idea will never find acceptance because “Uhhh what do we do with Carrick?” Thats such retarded thinking. We have to fit Carrick or Rooney in so screw all other possibilities?!?!?!


      Thats why I’m happy when the undropables get injured. It sparks new thinking.

      If I were allowed to select a first team template to play from regularly it would look something like this:

      ————————De Gea





      This is one of our most lethal combinations (if not ur most lethal) and does not include Michael Carrick.

      It is very dynamic going forward and solid enough defensively thanks to the pace and energy of Jones.

      Evra and Valencia are both ok defensively.

      Rooney and Zaha have enough energy to get back and assist in defense.

      But going forward we have the creativity and passing and movement of almost the whole team.

      That front 5 are a devastating combination.

      • @The_Philosopher: This formation actually looks a lot like something Barca would use. . .

        And when I say that Moyes is a little man and knows little about football I am not purporting to know a great deal about football on a professional level. I don’t know much about football.

        But I believe I know how to tell when a manager knows his business and when he doesn’t.

        Sir Alex Ferguson knew a goodly amount about football. Mourinho knows whats up as well. Jurgen Klopp knows a decent amount and there are a handful of other managers out there who know their stuff.

        Moyes knows very little about elite football and, more frighteningly, seems to be even less interested in getting a clue.

      • @The_Philosopher: The only changes I’d make to that is to bring Carrick back when fit and to drop Zaha. Jones is rapidly making a name for himself in that holding midfield role and should stay there – if he can keep clear of injuries. As much as I like the idea of Zaha being involved, sadly I think the guy has issues right now and who knows what the future holds? I agree with Kagawa playing in behind Rooney and RVP, with Januzaj having a roving commission to exploit both wings – a role he’s quite capable of fulfilling. The role of wing backs in this set up is paramount. Valencia is ideal as a wing back but I’d be concerned about his defensive capabilities. I’d prefer Rafa. Evra’s fine but he needs back up and I’d have a punt on Shaw rather than Baines in that role. Shaw’s a far better investment for the future. Buttner doesn’t cut it for me and if we signed Shaw, he might as well leave.

        Whilst its nice theorising about all this, I’m afraid it is unlikely to come to fruition any time soon.

      • @The_Philosopher: I really like that formation. Just wondering why Rafeal is not in there?

    • @Julian: Your point above moyes preferring less, I think is pretty accurate. When you consider the size of the squad he had at Everton, he basically was picking the same team and formation week after week. At utd its a completely different scenario when everyone’s fit.It seems at times he struggles to get a grip of the whole philosophy and benefits of squad rotation.Rather than make the difficult choices for the benefit of the team, he’l resort back to comfort zone of trying not to upset the apple cart.
      Some people on hear are arguing we should be backing moyes to the hilt, but the guys be in charge now for 6 months and I still haven’t got clue what his blueprint for the future is.just seems happy with the status quo rather than trying to put his own mark on the team. The obvious features he shows, what others have already commented on, is a preference for brawn over brain.The types of player he goes for in next to transfer windows should give us some idea of his thinking, just don’t think though we’ll see an agile quick thinking type of player arriving any time soon.

      • @THE RED BARON: If the theory about less being better for Moyes is correct, then how does that affect the upcoming transfer window? With Giggs seemingly ok for another season or so, could it be that we wont sign anyone – except maybe Baines?!

        • @Julian: Very good question.

          And I wouldn’t put it past Moyes to maintain the status quo of the current squad roster.

        • @Julian: I actually think he’ll only try and reinforce the cb position in this window.From what I’ve seen of his decision making so far, he doesn’t fancy many of the options open to him at central defence. Rio’s past it, he seems to favour Jones more as a cdm, vidic is to injury probe, he seems to favour smalling more aa rb cover, so your just left with evans.With regards baines, I think this time he’s going to be more mindful of how it appears to just keep going back to his previous club, got a feeling baines name being always bandied about could just be a smoke screen to recruit somone else. The big issues are our midfield. Just got a feeling though; unless someone exceptional becomes availablehhe’ll make do with what he’s got till the season ends.Where moyes does have a valid point is it is pretty hard prising the best players from their clubs in january, thats why I feel he’ll make do, or possibly look to bring someone in on loan with a view to buying, rather than drop a bollock like he did with fellaini

      • @THE RED BARON: Exactly. The idea of United becoming a glorified Everton is no longer a possibility,it’s now the reality. Some people will never open their eyes to simple realities. We have become Everton. A passionless but functional ronin of a club that has no philosophy. Frankly speaking,there really are no British managers left capable of handling the pace of football evolution and I don’t think Moyes can be treated differently. Continental is the way to go and that is all there is to it. I do understand a little the idea of a British manager but we have to weigh the pros against the cons to see if its a viable option. For the sake of the Epl I sincerely hope a new breed of British managers arises to challenge the technical innovations of the more celebrated continental coaches. But until then we can’t allow ourselves to serve nationalistic ideals. Unfortunately from a technical point of view Brendan Rodgers seems the only person right now with a more evolved philosophy. Not so sure about his leadership skills in general. But he is not an option. My point is as a big club we can’t put patriotism ahead of the club’s benefits. The right decision had to be made

        • @Jay Wire: The point about the lack of British managers at the highest quality level is something that always seems to be overlooked. How many forward thinking British managers are operating now? .Like you say, hardly any.Why are our methods and tactics coming from a bye gone era?.Just like the English national team, utd seems stuck with the same old tired set ups and permutations.Thats why I questioned moyes’s initial appointment. We had a chance to take our football to the next level with who we recruited, but instead we went for the easy option of recruiting a manager who’d basically keep the status quo.Thats where id give credit to both managers on Merseyside. They have a vision and implement it. What has moyes done to implement his vision. I’ll leave the rest blanc.

      • @THE RED BARON: I am of the opinion that it is rather clear what his blueprint is. It might not be what I like, but its there. I think the Jan transfer window will Start to reveal that. Not really in a sense of who we will be signing (I think its clear Baines is all he want…not sure why as I believe the twins can both play that roles), but more in whom he let go. Either permanent or on loan. The type of players he feel is not in need of being utilised will indicate what type of team and style he is trying to build. Its as clear as daylight but apparently some fans still need some convincing.

      • @THE RED BARON: I think we should focus more on whom he let go as indication for his blueprint. I agree that his is more brawn over brain. The type of players he prefer indicates this. The future is gloom in that we should not expect flair to grace OT for quite some time. Its just not the “british” way. What we can expect is a lot of one-dimensional specialists. Not really a bad prospect as they should perform pretty well as a unit. Predictability can be a bitch though. Also the fact that you need at least 2 identical players for each position because injuries can be a bigger bitch.

        Ah well…here’s to the next 20 years.

  • Like the rest of us I often wonder what exactly were the criteria behind Moyes’ appointment. For me it might well have had a lot to do with Glazernomics and the need to keep a tight rein on the purse strings. Firstly Moyes himself is on a salary probably about half that of Mourinho. I expect Guardiola is paid pretty much on the same level as the latter. Secondly, Moyes was prepared to take the job knowing that his hands would be tied to a degree by the fact that there would not be endless supplies of cash for new players. In fact it was a limited budget say of around 50m odd for this last window when probably what was needed was more like 100m. Both Mourinho and Guardiola would not want to take on the job of re-building Fergie’s side and taking it to another level (certainly in European terms)without a guarantee of very substantial financial backing. I’m sure finance was a major reason behind the Moyes appointment and why the others wouldn’t look at it.

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