Dec 05

Moyes to offload duo

Tag: Manchester United News @ 8:00 am

Anderson-Manchester-United-2013-2014If last night’s shambolic defeat against Everton taught us anything is that the current squad, quite plainly, isn’t good enough to compete at Premier League level, now that Sir Alex Ferguson’s aura can no longer be expected to paper over the cracks.

David Moyes needs to strengthen his squad, he needed to do so in the summer and failed miserably, and will need to address his team’s deficiencies when the transfer window open next month if he’s to ensure that United can clinch a spot in a European competition ahead of next season which, at present, looks far from being a formality.

Before splashing cash on reinforcements, however, Moyes seems intent to finally get rid of some of the deadwood that has crippled the squad for too long now.

According to some reports on today’s papers, the United manager will try to offload Anderson and Ashley Young in January, a mission which sounds every bit as complicated as signing a world class player, given how awful the pair have been throughout their careers at Old Trafford.

After arriving for £24m for Porto in 2007 and impressing in his first season, Anderson has become a pantomime villain, with fitness problems – the majority of which seem to be self-inflicted, given his tendency to eat exactly what a professional footballers should not even dream of consuming – while Ashley Young has become increasingly unpopular because of his antics.

It’s hard to imagine clubs desperate enough to come knocking for either player, but the Mirror reports that Moyes could consider a loan deal for both, should he not be able to get rid of them once and for all which, if true, speaks volume for how lowly the pair are rated at Old Trafford.

As for possible targets, the usual names of Leighton Baines, Nemanja Matic and Ilkay Gundogan are being linked with United and, apart from Matic perhaps, they all sound incredibly unrealistic.

Everton have turned down two offers for Baines in the summer, making abundantly clear that they do not intend to sell him to United and that was even before Roberto Martinez’s side started the season in style. With the Toffees pushing for a Champions League spot, the chances of them letting Baines go are, quite frankly, incredibly slim.

Likewise, it’s hard to fathom Dortmund allowing one of their star players to leave mid-season, particularly as Jurgen Klopp’s men look to progress in the Champions League and to close the gap from Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga but, as usual when it comes to United, sensible targets aren’t as appealing as unreachable ones.

 


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Tags: Manchester United News

52 Responses to “Moyes to offload duo”

  • Sack moyes instead

  • Moyes wont be sacked although fan pressure could now become intolerable. I can see the “Moyes Out” banners being unfurled as soon as this Saturday! Decisive action must be taken and the following jettisoned to make way for new faces who will provide real quality to take the team to another level: Anderson, Young, Nani, Buttner and Cleverly unless Moyes is prepared to give him one more chance by playing him regularly. Fabio should feature too or he might as well go. Powell should be recalled from Wigan forthwith and put in the first team. Giggs should retire straightaway and concentrate on coaching and imparting his invaluable experience. Having him as a player merely papers over the cracks thus creating the illusion that things are ok. Oh yes and Fellaini might as well go being the costly mistake that he is. The latter could be delayed until the summer. I’m not sure how much we could expect for that lot: 30m -40m at best?

    All this of course depends on whose available and what they will cost. January’s a difficult time but something radical must be done and soon. The Glazers must sanction substantial spending and release as much of the 83m cash in the bank as possible. On the subject of Baines, we don’t need any more from Everton and besides Shaw will prove a better long term investment. We need someone to understudy Evra so that the latter does not play every game. He looks totally knackered at the end of games leaving our left flank an open door for the opposition to exploit. If Baines is bought does that mean Evra’s out completely? I cant imagine Baines playing second fiddle to Evra or vice versa – makes no sense.

    Lots of work, thought and above all, action for Mr Moyes.

    • The_Philosopher

      @Julian: I would rather avoid all that work and get rid of Moyes.

      I also wouldn’t rush to get rid of Giggs. He is good enough to stay on at least for the remainder of this season in my book.

      Buying all these players and spending all this money and keeping David Moyes sounds like a waste to me.

      I would rather get rid of David mOyes.

      Moyes Out!!!

  • The_Philosopher

    If we need to get rid of anyone at Manchester United it’s David Moyes.

    Simples.

    Lets sack Moyes and get rid of Round and Lumphead as well as Phil Neville.

    We can get Giggs to hold the fort until the end of the season.

    Now that will be an awesome player manager.

    Or Ole, or Laudrup or Meulensteen or Bozo the clown.

    Anyone would be better than David Moyes right now.

  • Along with the afore mentioned two, Cleverly and Welbeck should also be on their way of OT. Neither inspire confidence and lack the ability to shine at this level

    Moyes also needs to look at his own position. I have always said he was wrong for United and thus far I am being proved right.

    Continuing with Fellani is also a mute point as is his removal to play Zaha and Januzaj amazes me.

    For me the main thing is to get rid of Moyes totally inept as manager
    He was wrong from the start and has done nothing to prove otherwise since his appointment. After all would you employ a manager who has won nothing in 11 years at Everton. The job is just too big for him

  • The_Philosopher

    “Everton, without Moyes, have improved. United, with him, have deteriorated.” – Daniel Taylor (The guardian)

    Says it all.

    What are we waiting for?

    Can anybody tell me?

  • @ The Philosopher. They will not simply get rid of Moyes. However, if fan reaction turns nasty he might feel compelled to turn it in. Then again on a six year contract at something like 6m a year that might be a major problem for him – almost suicidal. Another issue is getting someone else. All the major candidates are now tied up. Giggs is a coach in the making, not a manager per se. I’d definitely get him to retire, mainly as an incentive to get someone younger of real quality into midfield. Giggs extending his career like this has merely helped paper over the cracks.

    • The_Philosopher

      @Julian: I hear you with Giggs but I have actually quite surprisingly turned very sentimental about Giggsy.

      I would rather sell Cleverley and Anderson and end Fletcher’s career as a way of creating an incentive to buy a player. . .

      On the Moyes front; The guy needs to go. Sooner rather than later.

      Sir Alex can come and stand in for him until we find another replacement.

      • @The_Philosopher: @philosopher + Julian aka dumbwits who probably have never been to a utd game before – ok so ur solutions are to sack moyes – appoint giggs with NO management experience? i wont comment but I will ask you to read gary neviles article on the current situation – which is of course in the complete opposite direction to your blinded almost city fan like comments.

    • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

      That sort of fan reaction though is highly unlikely at OT. May happen on forums etc but it would only happen in a small scale at OT.

  • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

    Bad night and blame Moyes all you like. It’s a team/squad put together by SAF/the Glazers tight purse string that has been rescued over the last few Seasons by either Rooney or RVP.
    Yes he hasn’t stamped any style on the team but again Moyes is Moyes. Sack him, and we won’t, who do you get in anyway?
    On paper the result wasn’t a surprise but it continues to be a surprise to those that are used too it. Well welcome to back to the 80s! There is simply no divine right to win football matches. Shows how we all took it for granted how SAF got that extra bit out of the mediocre squad.
    At the end of the game last night there was little talk of Moyes out so don’t expect OT to turn quickly.
    I said we needed to win both these matches to stand a chance. We simply have to beat Newcastle in whatever way possible. Arsenal and the others will drop points over the coming weeks.

    • The_Philosopher

      @NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!: Your only argument for keeping Moyes is that there is no one to replace him?

      So lets keep the crap manager and let him infuse more of his awfulness into our club because we’re so useless and whooped that we could never find anyone better?!?!

      Is this what the great Manchester United has come to in your view?

      Lord have mercy!

      • @The_Philosopher: Moyes is struggling, clearly the players are not playing for him. I cannot see him being replaced until the end of the season, if he fails to make the top 4. The option for me would be to replace him for Hiddink or Heynckes until the the end of the season and take stock then. Fergie though will not allow this, Moyes is his man and will demand the board stick by him.
        Yes we are 12 points off the top, but we are also 12 points off the bottom.

        • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

          @Stephen:
          Apologies as can’t rpely to your comment below.
          Just to reiterate I’m not a Moyes fan at all! However all those praising SAF to the hills are overlooking the awful football played over the last few years, the horrific transfer mistakes, the poor European record and most importantly that he was the one who essentially bought Moyes to the club!!!
          Now to your points:
          The football is dire although I saw a few more encouraging signs in Germany and against Spurs. Yet the football has been dire for many Seasons. As I asked the “Philosopher” how many free flowing football performances can you recall over the last Seasons of SAFs reign?
          SAFs gambler reputation was acquired over time. Certainly in the last few years he has done little to enhance it. See how we threw away the title against City as evidence. Conservative and pragmatic became his way.
          It is a mediocre squad. Even when you are listing players you state “hardly average.” That’s not a phrase you’d use if you thought they were great!
          Vidic, Carrick, Evra and RVP. Compare those 4 in their respective positions with other top clubs. We have slower, older and more injury prone players. That is what SAF left.
          Kagawa barely made an impact under SAF but Moyes gets the crap for not playing him! He shined in an average league, like Sahin. He hasn’t had much of a chance to shine here by either manager. Either way he could only be classed as a decent player who has much to prove.
          Jones has been played all over the place by both managers and still no closer to being either the CB we need or the CM. Again promise but he wasn’t cheap so you’d expect that at least.
          Nani?! Again under the old SAF he’d have been binned. Chance after chance after chance.
          De Gea and Rafa, yes you could argue that they’d stand a chance in the other top teams. Rooney would compete and is a good player. Still should have sold him but that’a a whole other story!
          It is a mediocre team and a mediocre squad rescued by the goal scoring feats of RVP and Rooney. There has been no footballing style for years. That is what Moyes inherited.
          I’ve watched our teams midfield overcome by the weakest teams, both at home and away for some time. What did SAF do to change that? Nowt. He spent an unbelievable sum of money on a striker to cover up the gaps.
          SAF had years to sort out the midfield but we expected, myself included, for Moyes to come in and just sort it out. As we know it was a disaster. SAF was lucky in that Carrick had an impeccable injury and disciplinary record. Moyes soon loses him for a period of time.
          Why was he chosen? SAF, that is why! I’d like a friend like him!
          We are still not that far off Top 4 and provided we go on a similar run and invest in Jan we’ll be ok.
          The losing games will continue to happen. Those tiny fractions under SAF ,which took forever to build up where we played crap and either won/drew we have now lost and so will lose/draw.
          Even if we finish out of Top 4 he won;t be sacked.
          Of course I’m not happy about not competing for trophies but CL with or without SAF wasn’t an option so most just mean the Title. There’s a couple of big spenders in there that will be hard to live with.

        • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

          @Stephen:
          Sorry, again I can’t respond below…prob due to my computer incompetence!
          The goals for disguised a lot of the performances though. Little cohesion or method in terms of style. Reliance on RVP or Rooney to score the goals to mask the clear deficiencies elsewhere. A midfield featuring any combo of Carrick, Clevers, Ando, Giggs, Kagawa, Valencia or Nani does not have a great goal threat.
          The 4-4 against Everton was a gg. However again the signs were there for all to see again in the struggles against Fulham, Blackburn, QPR and Wigan.
          Rather than correct all the flaws, a far bigger job, we bought in RVP to cover them up.
          I’d still argue it is medicore but perhaps I’b being harsh and comparing it through rose-tinted glasses to previous SAF teams. The last one, IMO, really worth my Season Ticket was the interaction of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez.
          As you said there is no doubt we were still successful in terms of the Title but there was rarely swagger within our play. I have’t enjoyed the way we play for a long time.
          Agree with all your points on Moyes though. Of course if you had a Klopp or Pep coming in the players step up. I can’t see how any modern footballer would be inspired by the Scottish grit of Moyes. I’m hoping the players “do a Chelsea” and just pick it up regardless of the manager.
          SAF and the board deserve equal derision for not having the balls to go out and get a different style of manager.
          Anyway off for a pre-match shandy before 90 mins of pain!
          Enjoy.

      • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

        No, clearly I didn’t say that. However I’m slightly more realistic than your goodself and sacking him isn’t going to happen.
        When SAF first talked of retiring there was much talk of Sven as manager. Football is always short termist and full of drama queens and illogical thought.
        As said we have no divine right to win football matches. He inherited a mediocre squad and has lost a few games. We move on to the next.

        • @NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!: last season mate, we won 28 games, scored 86 goals, that is an average of 3 goals a game, hardly awful football.
          Dire football was far from the reason we lost the title, on the contrary we lost it with a 4-4 draw ironically with Everton. Moyes like Fergie should have addressed the midfield. Moyes spent much of the Summer like a kid at Willy Wonkers. He came to the club trying to buy impossible targets, for far too long. Gill leaving also did not help, the buffoon Woodward didn’t help. I still argue that this side isn’t mediocre. This side has won 5 titles in 7 years, average sides do not do that. I am not sure if he will be sacked if we fall out of the top 4, Fergie probably will see to that. But he should, we are the biggest club in the Country and are still Champions. The players are not responding to him. He has not charisma and that Glasgow steel is getting old hat now. He had a difficult job when he came in, but he has made it harder not adapting and sticking to what he knows best, safety first. Lets be honest, he has won nothing, to win pots you need to gamble, he said he would have taken a draw at Cardiff, really we are Champions and they have just been promoted. Lets not forget, we over 6 years will pay him in excess of £33m, nice work if you can get it! Wish I was born in Glasgow!

      • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

        @The_Philosopher:
        “If you can’t support us when we lose or draw, don’t support us when we win.”
        A somewhat famous quote you and your fellow sack the manager and bring in anyone fans after 14 games should try understanding.
        It’s the trouble of you all choosing to follow a club based purely upon its success.

        • The_Philosopher

          @NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!: It is a famous quote indeed.

          I have not forgotten it.

          If we had a competent manager who was struggling and losing and drawing I would be fine with that. I would wait it out and stand behind him.

          David Moyes is a crap manager and will never be very good even on his best day.

          I would rather support a good manager through thick and thin than blindly hold on to famous quotes while an incompetent drives us into the ground.

          But you’re right NotAmAssiveFan United are not a club that strives to be the best. Overtaking Liverpools record of English titles was a dumb ambition. What was Fergie thinking?

          Wanting more European trophies was also pretty stupid idea by Ferguson. What a relief him and his ambition are gone cause quite frankly I was getting tired of it. I’m so glad we’ve got David Moyes in now who’s gonna guarantee us no trophies and will take a point before a game against mighty teams like Cardiff.

          Lets just settle for mediocre cause thats just how we roll. . .

      • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

        @The_Philosopher:
        Evidently you’re a younger and more modern day supporter.
        The issue is that modern day fans like you and that German Bayern Munich chap is that you’ve picked a club to support purely on the basis that they win trophies. When they don’t you all drop your toys out of your pram.
        We never had a divine right to win trophies. We were crap in the 80s but played some decent football, much better football than the last few years under SAF without the trophies in the cabinet.
        When SAF took over he took an awful lot of flack and fans like yourself would have wanted him sacked for the next flavour of the month, just like now Klopp, Laudrup etc. As said a few years ago it was Sven.
        Unless you have a vision issue you’d see that the squad he inherited was mediocre at best. Hardly his fault.Yes they were Champions but pretty poor ones. When did you last see a SAF team play flowing football on a consistent basis? SAF has years of knowing how to make the mediocre team function at Premiership level, using all the tricks in the book and the fear factor of playing us. Essentially he papered over the massive gaps by going all out to pay over the odds for an aging striker. Short term it worked and bought another league but it’s another problem that now needs to be addressed by Moyes.
        As said I have no great joy about Moyes being the manager but chucking your toys out of your pram about it everyday is pointless. He won’t be sacked even if we fail to make Top 4.
        You may have to get used too the fact we don’t win trophies for a while. That actually is the way football should be.
        Incidentally your final point…SAF may have wanted more European trophies but he, with the resources available, had a dismal European record.
        Anyway should be a good atmosphere at OT considering it’s an early kick off and has become a must win game. You sd try going someday rather than shouting at a TV :wink:

        • @NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!: I would class myself as a older supporter, formally a season ticket holder and just about remember the Atkinson days. But I will say that being in 9th is hardly where we should be. The football is dire, safety first, not the United way. Yes Fergie’s was more pragmatic, but he was a gambler, Moyes isn’t. Mediocre squad? De Gea, Rooney, Kagawa, RvP, Rafael, Vidic, Jones, Carrick arguably Nani and Evra are hardly average players. He knew he would be succeeding Fergie in May and Stevie Wonder could see the midfield needed addressing. He failed to activate Fellani buyout clause and we secured his old player on 31st August for £5m over. As supporters Phil, me and you are all entitled to ask questions. The Summer was a disaster. Why was a manager with no trophies in the cabinet, no European track record be hired on a 6 year contract on £5.5m a season, which puts him in the top 10 paid managers in the World? We have lost 1 less game this season, than all of last. We have scored 11 goals less than this position last.
          Ferguson was a genius, he was a force of nature. As one of the Worlds biggest clubs, the fans are allowed to question where we are going, 12 points off the top, 12 off the bottom. We are Champions and are so far this season we have never been in the top 4. I agree he will not be sacked, at least until the Summer as he was ordained my God and he will not allow it. Moyes seems to be Fergies last present, another job for the boys, look after your on why not.
          You may be happy with no trophies in the future, but I am not. We are one of the Worlds biggest clubs and should be competing.

  • Andrija Djuranovic

    “If you fight hard and just fail, people will still watch you on television, still turn up and buy shirts.There’s still a lot of affinity with the club and interest. The reality is that you can’t always win.
    Take Liverpool. They still sell an incredible number of shirts and have the second biggest shirt deal in the Premier League.They have one of the biggest technical partner deals – and they haven’t won the league since 1990.
    And you can put the last bit underlined and in capitals.”

    Statement by Ed Woodward, from this very morning. This is the problem ladies and gentlemen. Not Moyes, not Fergie, not Bobby Charlton. It’s the owners who do not care the slightest about the results-whose goal is just to generate more cash and take it out from the club. They even publicly admitted it this time-it’s there for everybody to see.

  • Even prior to this Woodward boasted that the brand was so strong that one or two seasons of no trophies wouldn’t make much of a difference to the bottom line – or words to that effect! Well, if we don’t qualify for the Champs League, and we aint going to if the current position continues, it will most certainly make a difference to the bottom line.

    From one perspective he’s right. United is a huge global brand but with that comes expectations that are so extraordinarily high that a period of mediocrity might have a far greater effect on revenues than it did at Arsenal and Liverpool. United are on another level and the fans, many of whom know nothing else, demand on-gong success or many will lose interest quicker than Woodward imagines.

    • Andrija Djuranovic

      @Julian:

      I agree, but my point is that he (or rather, his employers) simply doesn’t care. Their calculation is simple:

      -They didn’t put one penny of their own money into the takeover.
      -They maximized commercial appeal.
      -They will continue to repay the debt, and take everything what’s left from gains into their own pockets.
      -Once the cow is thoroughly milked, they will sell the club to somebody else and earn even more.

      They are earning hundreds of million without any risk-they have no reason to abandon this model, just for the sake of sport of which they don’t even know the rules. For us, it is a football club we cherish-for them, it’s just another venture.

      • @Andrija Djuranovic: Yes but if revenues decline and they must do if we become a mid table team which doesn’t win anything, then the value of the club will decline and the Glazer’s will get less when they do decide to get out. What they have to decide now is either they invest properly in the team, and they have the money to do it even if it is at he expense of dividends and debt reduction, or they sell now. Don’t wait, surely, to sell a fading asset somewhere down the line because they didn’t want to spend properly on infrastructure?

        • Andrija Djuranovic

          @Julian:

          Not if they want maximum gain from minimal spending.

          As they’re only running gain-they don’t want to risk it by spending now, because spending improves chances for success, but does not guarantee it. From their point of view it’s simple: why risk 100 million now to perhaps win a billion from revenues when we achieve success, when they can take the 100 million, and still win, for example, 500 million from deals and possible selling, and that’s guaranteed.

          For those of you who didn’t study economic and/or political science, it’s called Prospect theory. The main postulate of the prospect theory: when people are in the winning area, they do not take risks. When they’re in the losing area, they are more inclined to take risks.

          We’re now in the losing area concerning results, but the owners don’t care for that. All they care for is money, and they’re in the winning area there. Therefore, no risks. Therefore, no spending. Therefore, no reinforcements.

  • Moyes is not the Problem,Ferguson is.I remember how everybody been shouting for the past 3 years that we needed midfielders but the management took no notice,especially SAF.We were exposed by Barcelona in the 2009 and again in 2011 Cup final but Fergie either ignored the fact.Scholes is gone,no replacement,Carrick is injured,no stand-in player for him.Clerverly cannot create a chance for our strikers let alone scoring.We have to clear all deadwood’s,Anderson,Cleverly,Welbeck,Nani,Young,Kagawa,Fellaine.Vidic and Rio are aging.Retire Giggs and give chances to Zaha,Januzaj and Powell.Start with the mid,get Gundogan,Herera and Sneidjer at all cost.If not,then forget the Champion league next season.

  • It will be an insult on the man utd team to be called mediocre, d likes of nemanja vidic,patice evra, shinji kagawa, rafael, rvp, rooney, carrick are all world class, moyes keeps talking of d mediocrity, everton midfield line up was nothing but bunch mediocre, gareth barry who could not break in 2 d man city squad, steven pienaar and leo osman are all but average, who would not know dt moyes is not technically sound, after 11yrs he won no trophy and he never won away from against any big team. Jurgen klopp did nt av messi and ronaldo in his team, when he wrestled two league titles from the almighty bayern. Say all u like but d bottom line is even if messi signs for man utd, d manager does not av d brain and ability to manage a team like man utd.

  • A lot of things are quite obviously going wrong at the moment but I think things run deeper than what they initially appear.One of our big problems is with transfers in general. How many players over the last few years have been a rip roaring success?.To emphasise the point, I read the other day that ferguson was told by his scouting set up that buttner wasn’t even the third best lb in Holland, yet he still decided to jump in for him because Southampton was also in the mix for his signature.Bebe, young…….The list goes on.Are we that surprised there’s that much deadwood around the club.I rather have an average season if it means once and for all we can have a proper clear out and get rid of these players who aren’t utd standard.Thw other side to that though is with captain moyes at the helm,is the likes of fellaini the standard of player we’re only going to be able to recruit?.not a pleasant thought.

  • Andrija Djuranovic

    One technical question: is there a way to turn off this “News United” “Football Media” feature? It’s really annoying.

  • Andrija Djuranovic

    Fergie’s buys in the last three years. Scale 1 to 5, 1=total flop, 2=flop, 3=satisfactory, 4=good signings, 5=total success.

    David De Gea=5
    Ashley Young=1
    Phil Jones=4
    Shinji Kagawa=2
    Nick Powell=3
    Robin Van Persie=5
    Wilfried Zaha=2

    It is a 50-60% success rate, therefore it’s a solid record. However, the problem is not about players we have already signed, it’s our inability (or rather, lack of willingness) to compete with other clubs for top players. Whenever we’re the only customers, and when the price is lower than 25 million, we’re able to get the player more often than not. But whenever there are competition for a player or he commands bigger price-we’re out.

    • @Andrija Djuranovic: I wouldn’t call it a solid record, very average at best. We’ve just wasted a lot of good money on players who wer never going to set the world alight at ot.Our emphasis, rvp being the exception, has always been on young up and coming prospects.That philosophy can work well if you can see genuine talent, but sometimes you need to buy the finished article, something ferguson was loath to do.The problems with purchasing young players is its basically a lottery if they end up fulfilling their potential.

  • It would be fabulous to see these two losers leave United.One of our biggest problems currently,is carrying players like Young & Anderson who contribute nothing to the team.They are not the only ones.Cleverley is overrated,Wellbeck needs to get his head in the game and Nani has to decide whether he will continue to frustrate or whether he will deliver consistently.We seriously bombed out in the first transfer window,so I doubt we will be able to attract the type of players we really need,if any.United aren’t exactly hot property at the moment and with SAF gone,one doubts that playing under David Moyes is a draw card.However,we definitely have to offload the rubbish in our team asap!This sentiment with Giggs needs to stop as well.There is no way he can deliver the goods every single game.I love giggsy to bits,but I’m a realist.Keep him,yes,but don’t place the expectations on his shoulders to be our saviour.Moyes should look at the youth team for kids who can step up and be counted.What’s the use of seeing Vidic and Evra being outmuscled and outsprinted and we know their best years are behind them.We might as well let our young lads get the experience if the end result will still be the same.Its time for some radical action!Open up the cheque book and cast an eye to the youth,its the only way we will get something out of this miserable season.

  • tonymontanna4united

    Good. We’ve got far too many players in this squad who are effectively stealing a wage by doing fuck all.
    Anderson, Young, Valencia and Evra for me are the main names in the frame, the first 2 who just aren’t good enough and probably never were, and the latter 2 who have been off the pace and lost their way for far too long despite being given all the patience and time in the world from the fans and managers alike.

    I’m tempted to add Moyes to the list of out’s aswell.
    I mean, after last night, trying to calm down a bit, I do try to be fair when it comes to Moyesy.
    I mean, I personally quite like Moyes the person. He comes off as a thoroughly decent, likeable sort of guy which is definitely a plus in this world (could you imagine having a fucking sleaze bag like big brenda).
    But sadly I can’t shake off the image I had of Moyes from the very start which is he’s a very good manager for a top 5-6 side, but he doesn’t have that mentality or winners attitude to make things work at a truly top side. It even looks like he’d taken Everton as far as he could, getting them to 6th, and they now want to push on without him.
    From day 1, I never wanted Moyes, as I always felt that coming to United he would be out of his comfort zone.
    That’s not to mention that the way his teams played football were never too pleasing on the eye which I feel is vital at this club, and that he never really displays an eye for top class talent which he would bring through as a rough diamond, and develop into a top class international (save for a few coming from their academy).
    Tactically he always had Everton set up as hard to beat, full of energy and willing workers, but he never really approached a game with the intention of trying to outscore the opposition, and come and give anyone a game which is shown in his 47 and 0 record away against top 4 opposition over the years which Martinez has already outdone within 4 months.

    Personally, as I’ve said before, If you’ve got the right man in charge then you’ve got to give him all the time in the world to get it right.
    I just wasn’t sure from the start, and I’m more than unsure right now if we do actually have the right man.
    Sometimes you’ve got to bold and make a judgement decision like liverpool did with Hodgson. Would an extra 2/3 years with him have really made much of a difference for them?

    Right now we look like we’ve got a fight on to make the sodding top 4.
    The Glazers and their puppet Woody can go on about the brand and profit margins all they like, but a season outside of the CL places, and everything will go to total shit very very quickly.
    The likes of RVP, Rooney, De Gea, Rafael will all want to leave, we’ll have to settle for more of the likes of Fellaini, Young and co, and our name will deteriorate and be seen a club who has seen former glories.
    And all because we tried to save a few quid and go with the cheap option :roll:
    Basically the selection process for Moyes was just a total fucking shambles from the first minute.
    Greedy penny pinching owners looking to go for the cheapest option, our Legendary manager and Glazer ally hand picking his successor and going with the sentimental decision, deciding to stay on the board despite talking about history and how detrimental it was with us in the past with Sir Matt….
    Just a total fucking screw up, and really as one of the posters below says, it’s not really going to change much even with Moyes’ dismissal.
    The problems are too deep rooted now, it just seems enivatible that we may have to go down the liverpool route of some very rough times for the next decade unfortunately.

    • @tonymontanna4united: I totally agree with all you’ve written here. Without a CL spot next season our best players will want to leave and no decent players will want to come.I don’t know if getting rid of Moyes is the answer, after all, there’s not really anyone who could realistically replace him, at the moment. I have read on this site the names of Mourinho, Guardiola and Klopp being mentioned, but theres not a chance in hell any of them will come or I suspect be asked. The only alternative is bringing back SAF as a caretaker until the end of the season and then taking a real punt on the likes of Ole Gunnar Solskaer, but it’s a risk.

  • @ Andrija Djuranovic. The Glazers policy has been to keep the club successful whilst keeping expenses firmly under control. Good business practice of course but they relied entirely on a brilliant manager to do this. However, despite domestic success this policy has led to the club falling away competitively in Europe by not improving the team with quality acquisitions. Domestic success gave the illusion that the club was a successful one but this was only partly true. Now the brilliant manager has gone and replaced by someone they hoped would be able to continue their policy. They must now realise this is in serious doubt. The team needs re-building and whilst a number of players who are not up to it can be jettisoned, the club needs to spend big to carry out that re-building. If they are going to rely on Moyes continuing what Fergie was doing they are most likely going to be disappointed. They will give Moyes some money but not sufficient and the club might fall into (continue the current) mediocrity which will definitely have an effect on the bottom line – eventually. They have various options open to them from trying to continue the Fergie modus operandi with Moyes, failing which to getting a new manager who can (easier said than done), to selling out now, to asset stripping the club and then selling. Who knows? The situation must be very fluid as far as the Glazers are concerned.

    • Andrija Djuranovic

      @Julian:

      I agree completely with what you wrote, but I am trying to explain you this: they do not care about the footballing side. They care only about financial profit. And as Herr Woodward kindly explained us this morning, these two do not necessarily go hand in hand-especially if you invested nothing of your own capital into the club.

  • While I’m firmly of the belief that Moyes is simply not United quality and will achieve no more than building ‘Everton with chrome’ at OT, it is good to see discussion turning to the real root of the issue. Moyes is simply a moment-in-time blemish, like a boil that appears on your best friend’s face, then with appropriate treatment fades, disappears or is forcibly removed. The REAL issue, and it is a very pervasive issue that is likely to be with us for the very long term, is the issue of ownership and the Glazers.

    Worldwide, the game pivots on finance. Clubs with the financial acumen to attract and retain the best win over the long term. The good/bad news is that growing worldwide interest in the only game in town that is truely global suggests that the rewards for successful clubs (and so their owners) will also increase substantially. The Glazers saw this coming a long way back and have set out their stall to establish a family dynasty at the expense of the demise of the dynasty that Manchester United might have become in more beneficent hands.

    Let’s say that our great club is a house. We come along and think I like that house, I’ll find the means to buy it. No sooner do we buy the house than we decide to load the house itself with the monthly operating costs. We also load the house itself with the responsibility for paying off the mortgage by saying “OK, house, we own you but we’re taking the money your worth and taking out a loan for your value which you, Mr House, will be responsible for paying off.”

    Then we dream up another cunning stunt (almost wrote stunning ***t there – need to be careful when the Glazers haunt my mind!). We sell a great many additional people a share in our house. They give us their money. Do we use that money to help Mr House pay off the debt we’ve saddled him with. Do-we-hell-as-like. We put it in the bank after we’ve bought a new yacht and a Roller!

    Financing Manchester United’s loan, has had an effect equivalent to loading a thoroughbred racehorse’s saddle with lead an expecting it to continue to sprint over the long term. The club should by now be pre-eminent on the global stage. The fact that it is still “competitive” (we can argue how competitive) after so much of its wealth has been syphoned off by Glazer greed is quite remarkable. Shoot David Moyes if you wish. That will be the equivalent of bagging a little sparrow on an expensive pheasant shoot. It’s the bar stewards with the fancy tail feathers that our club is lavishing wealth on who need to receive both barrels.

    • @RedThru: Understand the points you make, the whole issue with the ownership is something that’s always an issue.How do you actually get rid of them without it having an impact on the club . They’re like an itch you can’t scratch.The green and gold movement achieved little apart from splitting the fan base.Just don’t know what the answer is to a complex situation.They won’t sell to any interested parties due to their valuation, so apart from the team completely falling apart at the seams, Which in turn affects the profitability of the club, We’re under their control whether we like it or not.

  • If there’s anybody who should be sacked is the leeches running the club. Actually, they should have been sacked as soon as they took over the club eight years ago.

    • @Dan: The Glazers are leeches sucking blood out of our club and have been for years. Ferguson won 5 titles in 7 years compared to his rivals on a shoe string. They are not going anywhere, they simply haven’t finished with their personal cash cow just yet. But this does not mask the fact of where we are in the table. The side is better than 9th. We do not score enough goals, even with RvP and Rooney, Sunderland have scored more goals at home than us. This is a contrast to last season when we were scoring for fun. Last season at this stage we had scored 33, this season 22. We conceded exactly the same amount. I understand and totally agree, but we are better than this.

  • @TRB, I know, it’s easy to state the problem and really difficult to resolve it – but you didn’t disagree with me that Moyes is really just a seaside-sideshow compared with the magnitude of ownership – the real big elephant in the room. The club ownership business models are falling into three broad categories:

    1. Sugar Daddy : Unlimited cash available, usually from very dubious source (Abramovich) or location where it would be better used for local humanitarian reasons than stoking a personal ego (Sheik of Abu Dhabi). Over the long term, teams in this category will be all-conquering. Economics will dictate this. Thus, expect Shitty and Chel$ki to compete and win at the highest level UNLESS their Daddies lose interest. (City effectively paid $700M to buy the league a couple of seasons ago and the Sheik didn’t bat an eyelid).

    2. Self-Sustaining : Fair play merchants who endeavor to compete at the highest level by maximizing their income through TV, Commercial, Gate Day means. Man Utd, Arsenal and, arguably Liverpool are the best examples. Has to be said that Arsenal do it “best” in terms of operating profitably without cash injection from their owner BUT of-course they haven’t won anything for yonks. The Emirates debt is now effectively paid off and so Wenger is positioned to win. I’m doubtful that Liverpool are positioned for anything much unless they too find the will and resources to do an “Emirates”. Don’t think Henry has the balls though.

    3. Survivors but never winners : Pretty much everyone else. Will only win when season finishes on February 31st. Survival will become easier though because of growing TV income.

    With the Glazers, we are doomed to a long term period of being just above average. So, we can either:

    i). Get used to that
    ii) Buy a Blue and White scarf and get on a different bus
    iii) Find some way of encouraging the Glazers to be more like Kronke at Arsenal

    Doesn’t sound great, does it? David Moyes? He’s not a winner but he’s not the real issue.

    Let me say again, that ManU has done so well with these leeches sucking the club’s life blood is REALLY remarkable. How do we de-leech?

    • @RedThru: The only logical way to affect the ownership of the club is to stop lining their pockets.Thats never going to happen so it’s just a catch 22 situation. Even if they’re offered well over the odds for the club they won’t sell, like they’ve said previously, they’re hear for the long term so looks like we’re in a situation where we’ve got to lump it or leave it. :(

  • Andrija Djuranovic

    Hear Hear, @RedThru !

    Excellent points. One can criticize Moyes for some dubious tactical decisions, but it’s not gonna get us anywhere-that sort of criticism is just barking at the wrong tree. Give Moyes proper title competing players=he will compete for the title and win trophies. But that’s exactly what the leeches won’t do-hence the results.

  • I’m afraid fans turning against Moyes is a bit shortsighted. Manchester United don’t have a David Moyes problem. They have identity crisis. Many pointed out that this is still Ferguson’s team that easily won the title last season. This is absolutely correct even more so than appears on the surface. This is quintessential Ferguson’s team created and conditioned to respond to him and him only. The entire United organization, the club ethos and modus operandi are molded around Ferguson game philosophy and personality. The players United brought in over the years with few exceptions are not ‘top stars’ a FM warrior would pick. United have always relied on the core set of players who embraced and thrived under Ferguson’s regime. Note how those who tried to break away from the mold even big names like Beckham and Keane were quickly disposed of. Even a manager with a better pedigree be it Pep or Mourihno would struggle with this United side.

    Bottom line United will have to find their new post SAF identity. That’s the price you pay for having unprecedented success with one of the greatest managers in football history for so many years. Brace yourself. It took Arsenal 8 years to find their new identity. LFC after so many years are still searching for one.

  • Getting rid of Anderson and Young would be a good start. I would also add Cleverley, Nani and Hernandez to the mix.

    Cleverley is incredibly average and his career has stalled. Jones is a better midfield option and I think Fellaini if given time could be a good squad player. With Cleverley and Anderson gone we would then have room for a new central midfielder to play alongside Carrick.

    Nani had a chance to reignite his career under Moyes but he shows no signs of recapturing the form he displayed a few seasons ago. Valencia’s form is at least picking up and Januzaj gives us options on the wings. Although I think buying another winger could give us a bit more flair and prevent the need to use Kagaya or Welbeck on the wings.

    It is with trepidation that I add Hernandez to the list. But he would raise much needed funds and Moyes does not appear able to use him as a super sub the way Ferguson was able to (mostly because Moyes teams defend in the last ten minutes rather than going for all out attack the way Ferguson teams used to) and when Hernandez starts he is a liability. Besides it is clear that Rooney Van Persie and Kagaya between them offer the best striking combinations while Welbeck gets to stay for his versatility and link up play.

    With the funds raised we need a central defender, a central midfielder and another winger.

    Those three signings even with existing management would keep us in the top four.

    But I simply do not see us ever winning a title under Moyes.

  • @TRB – So, my option i) or ii) ??

    Deep, deep shit, neither is very palatable – but I agree, getting rid of the Glazers is just about as easy as getting rid of hemorrhoids when you spend every day sitting on a cold concrete slab (Not that I know anything about that of course. I recognize that I can be a real pain in the arse but piles aren’t the cause of that issue :-) )

    • @RedThru: The sad part in all this is as per usual, the normal everyday fans get the shitty end of the stick. The management, board members and players are still reaping the rewards of inflated salaries, bonuses, dividends etc, while the fans have to put up with increased ticket prices and all that comes with it, a team that’s in of a fresh a dynamic approach to playing football with a major injection of new blood and owners who’s main concern appears to be just turning utd into a commercial mega monster while not appearing to give two shits about what’s happening on the field.sad times

  • michael dempsey

    Moyles out as soon as possible. Before wee come the laughing stock off english football. To take over a champion winning team and leave us in ninth is a disgrace. His substitutes at times are laughable. My choice would b kloop look at what he done

  • Maybe I’ve got it wrong but in the first half on Wednesday there was only one side in it – United with one of the few convincing displays this year at OT. Admittedly I was worried that nil all gave the other side a good chance but in an even second half we should have scored two. We all know the midfield is poor – anderson, young, nani, cleverly – none have them have looked like Utd players. Certainly get rid. Our bigger problem is that the manager looks like an unlucky loser. Only time will tell but I see nothing different from his years of mediocrity at Everton.

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