Nov 10
Ngog’s dive — aka a lesson in refereeing conspiracy theories
First of all, observe this visual:
That is a dive. Many players dive in the premier league, as well as around the world. Many players win penalties by diving.
This happened at Anfield. Home of Liverpool. Liverpool were down 1-2 to Birmingham. The resulting penalty was converted and they tied the match 2-2.
Yet, Liverpool fans — and indeed, fans of our rivals — will complain about us getting favoured by the refs at Old Trafford.
We also know what happened yesterday at the Bridge, didn’t we?
So what’s the moral of the story: it’s quite possible that all “big four” clubs get favourable decisions from the refs when they play at home.
So next time, think of this — and indeed, yesterday — when someone cries bloody murder at Old Trafford.
That is all.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Wenger Whines Again
- All three points as fortune favours United
- Evra’s Ban Smacks of Inconsistency | Sunderland Preview
- United blow chance to close gap
- The Belated Match Report + Boro Preview
Tags: Discussions
November 10th, 2009 at 3:50
It was so ridiculous! It has nothing to do with home advantage but with incompetent refereeing. This is the common theme this season and I think this will be the last season with one ref on the field. It has been that pathetic.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:51
what is the website where they keep track of the “real” corrected EPL table?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:03
Definitely Dive…..
it is ridiculous….what was the referring thinking on it?
November 10th, 2009 at 8:48
This commemt originates from the previous post about Evans being lucky not to receive a red card and a penalty to be awarded to chelski. But as things folded out, when Evans kungfued Drog, the ref had already blown the whistle for the push Drog did on Brown before he raced for the ball to be crushed by Evans.
As per the game, we really played well, but i think our offensive players are just not aggressive as they should be. As they say “you dont score if you dont shoot”. It’s as though we’ve copied the arsenal way of passing the ball till the six yard box. Ever since Ronaldo left, the rate at which we shoot outside the box has gone down, and yet its through shooting that we got amassed many goals the previous seasons (with the exception when we had the fox in the box Van). We got lads who are good at hitting that ball hard, and why not encouage them to shoot, you never know what a deflection or a swing by wind can cause! The Fletcher and Rooney attempts ring my mind and you wonder what would have transpired if we did /do it at the frequency Ron used to do it or at the frequency the youthful Scholes did it.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:36
…and when a manager complains, the FA jumps to fine him or ban him from the touch line. But at the end of the day, they forget what a difference that decission might have on the affected team at the end of the day.
Imagine if Birmingham is relegated by just a point or two, which we’ve seen happen to teams season after season. Do you think anyone from the FA will recall that the three points they should have gotten against Looserpool would have saved them? I don’t think so!
And monetary wise how much will the club lose if they are relegated. Can they (referees) imagine how much on bonuses the players missed just because they didn’t win courtesy of the referee? It never comes easy when playing against Pool even for the giants like United, but i kills me when the referee makes a mistake and when the manager talks about it, everyone jumps to condemn him. If players and managers make mistakes and blunders, they get stick, why should referees get away with it? Aren’t they part of the game?
November 10th, 2009 at 9:41
That’s a quality dive. Great execution, could shielding of the contact from the refs view, and right in front of the Kop. Good stuff, clearly the Stevie G swan dive sessions are working out in training!
November 10th, 2009 at 12:05
[...] Red Rants looks at the ref conspiracy after the penalty Liverpool won for a dive last night. [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 12:30
Rafa is totally mad.Against Birminghom at home,they were playing with 5 defenders and their right back is their best attacker…It will be really tough for them to qualify for CL next season
November 10th, 2009 at 12:45
@owen: Like I said in last post… Actually in way I am happy that we lost and RAFA stayed with them…
As he will make sure Dippers are royally screwed…..
“IN RAFA WE TRUST” isn’t it?????
November 10th, 2009 at 13:02
@Onkar: “IN RAFA WE FULLY TRUST”…today when i woke up, i was thinking that Rafa must have been sacked till now but still,is not which is very good.
November 10th, 2009 at 13:26
i am seriously getting pissed off with the referees this season, quite frankly i think they are in need of being shipped off and bring in some kind of robot. its getting beyond a joke when calls like this one and the one on fletcher are being made week in week out. referees are perfectly consistent… problem is they are consistently shit.
November 10th, 2009 at 13:29
someone call 999 N’Gogs’ just been shot.
November 10th, 2009 at 13:32
@Beachryan: Yep.
He could work on those facial expressions though.
Stevie Me has got those painful, stupefied looks nailed on.
What an actor!
November 10th, 2009 at 14:08
I agree some of the refereeing decisions have been appaling this season and refs do seem to favour the home team (it is probably one of the big elements of home advantage). But it is going too far to say the referee cost us the game. The decision in question was just a free kick. We could have defended it much better. But instead the players were too busy raging at the referee.
I have no idea why players continue to argue with the referee. They never change their mind and it is just wasting energy that could be directed into defending.
Also while the penalty decision went against us, we had enough opportunities to score in open play which would have secured the draw, because there was no way Chelsea would put two past our defence even with the referees help.
Contrary to what people are saying it is not going to determine the outcome of the Premier League. If we win the home game we reduce the gap to two points and both us and Chelsea are going to drop points this season.
But it was comforting to know that when it counts we are as good defensively as anyone. The real problem is that while we combine into a formidable defensive unit the only attacker who ever looks like scoring is Rooney and while he is quite capable of occupying two central defenders they are usually able to do just enough to stop him getting ay clear chances. Meanwhile players like Valencia, Giggs, Park and co just are not prolific enough and we do not have anyone who can score from central midfield regularly.
November 10th, 2009 at 15:30
We should be more worried about the lack of goals and more importantly chances created than the referees. Our attacking play has been extremely limited this season, other than Wigan we’ve not really ‘hit first gear’ once. I’m forced to wonder if we actually have a first gear, or if we’re really just not that good.
Potential is something we used to tease Arsenal about for a long time. Macheda, Welbeck, Valencia, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, Rafael, Fabio, Tosic, Foster – that’s too many maybes for one team really. Especially when the definites are that Giggs, Neville, Scholes and Edwin are on their way out.
Of our current first squad, only really Rooney, Fletcher, Berbatov, Carrick and the defense are what I’d call proven quality that also have potential. It’s kind of worrying.
November 10th, 2009 at 16:02
Congratulations to David Ngog for winning his first and only trophy as a Liverpool player!
An Oscar…
November 10th, 2009 at 16:03
@NicoQB: Me thinks Stevie G is giving away free acting lessons to his mafia family.
November 10th, 2009 at 16:05
In Rafa we trust! No doubt, the man is starting to become a legend here!
Mad rants, goatee beard, making Liverpool look like Bury, continuously letting Torres and Gerrard go on international duties despite being injured, play a fucking 5-3-2 at home and being the fattest Spaniard Ive ever seen in my life. Well done, in Rafa we truly trust! 
November 10th, 2009 at 16:23
@Footy4Eddy: I wonder why there are not sacking him…
November 10th, 2009 at 16:47
@owen: They have to pay him if they sack him, therefore they cannot sack him as they dont have any money.
November 10th, 2009 at 16:53
Yeah, It’d cost them £20 million to sack him. haha they’re fucked. SPURS for 4th place.
November 10th, 2009 at 17:13
Beach, Id take Carrick and Berbatov off that list. Carrick never shows up in big games and just isn’t that good. Berbatov has quality but really isn’t a good fit for our team….he slows everything down and we are most dangerous when we attack with pace.
We are a defensive team now. That is why we were able to match Chelsea for most of the game, but struggle to beat lesser teams. Also despite our defensive quality, our defence still has a tendency to self-destruct which is always a worry because we do not score enough goals to give room for defensive errors.
Even Fletcher is a primarily defensive player. So really the sum total of our attack is Wayne Rooney and also Giggs when he is on form. No wonder we hardly score any goals!
The problem is that our midfield isn’t strong enough to play a 4-4-2 and besides most good teams play five in midfield so you have to match them. That means Rooney gets isolated up front. Support for Rooney has to come from the wings. But our wings consist just of dubious potential in the form of Nani, Obertan, Valencia AND Park whose only real value is defensive.
Obertan looks like he could be a solution on the left wing. But Valencia for me is not the answer on the right wing. A squad player-no more. So what we really need to do is what we should have done the moment we contemplated selling Ronaldo….buy a top class right winger.
November 10th, 2009 at 18:35
@Traverse: I am not sure Spurs will be able to stay in fourth place. I see Man City as the more likely candidate for 4th (if Liverpool does not get back to business soon).
Actually, I see Liverpool stumble into 4th place around April as the pressure of 4th place will be too much for city and spurs.
November 10th, 2009 at 19:10
@[OPTI]Madschester United: i see this too the citeh project is loosing steam with tevez found out and robbinho wanting away who will think its a good place to move to come jan?
November 10th, 2009 at 21:48
Referees are just plain incompetent in England. And even in Europe. Just that England is the worst. Especially the assistants on the line. Woeful decision making and ridiculous facial expressions each time they call an offside. The FA is a real waste of time to discuss.
November 10th, 2009 at 22:18
On the side and a happy note for me, two of my favorite players were voted among best players for the October month on the official site. Berbatov was voted player of the month with a vote of 50% and Anderson was 3rd with 6% after Valencia. Yeah I know it looks pointless and silly but I’m glad people are beginning to see some value in these players. I’ve been checking out a lot of ratings from other sites and comments from many football commentators and analysts and they’ve been recently making positive commentary on both players. Especially Anderson. Seems the majority are coming around to the abilities of these players. Okay that’s all the Anderson talk I’m going to make today. Unless someone brings up that “headless chicken” comment and I get incensed.
November 10th, 2009 at 22:26
Rest In Peace Robert Enke, truly a great goalkeeper who deserved better.
Died comitting suicide, most probably because of his daughters death in 2006.
November 10th, 2009 at 22:32
@Footy4Eddy: Just read that to
RIP
November 10th, 2009 at 22:47
@Dan: Horrible… First Puerta? Then that Spanish lad which was mate with Fabrgeas? Those were heart defects, but still. Thats three deaths in European football in the space of approximately a year, this one being suicide. Incrible, and then Drogba does THAT! movement on a pitch, looking like he was dying?
Fucking asshole, it really saddens me to read such things. As a player myself, I can only imagine this happening to one of my team-mates, a friend of my. 
Hell, I get sad only if they leave for another team, but dying?! Deary me… My thoughts are at Robert Enke and his family. 
November 10th, 2009 at 22:51
Just read it. Really sad to hear. RIP.
November 10th, 2009 at 23:27
Perhaps grognard can shed some light on his career. Every time i saw the lad, he looked good.
Promising talent, quite tragic really.
November 10th, 2009 at 23:28
Enke’s death is very sad. Especially about his 2-year old daughter passing away
November 10th, 2009 at 23:34
I feel physically sick.
My thoughts go to Enkes family and the whole of Germany. Ive spoken to a few of my friends who live in Germany, and they tell me that apparenlty the whole country griefs because of this. Football is a big thing in that country, and their first-choice goalkeeper for the world cup(According to Low) commited suicide because he couldnt stand the emotional crack he felt when he thought of his dead daughter. Its devestating really, I feel for him. As a player, as a person and as a fan. Ive seen him before, in his prime he could be one of the best goalkeepers in the world. Certanly better than Lehmann. Like I said, I feel sick… 
November 11th, 2009 at 2:47
@colver: The real key for us this season is to unlock the mystery of why we are not scoring goals.
I happen to think that we need new personnel to invigorate both the MF and the strikers.
We’ve diddled around with most all combination’s of lineups that are possible, and we still have been anemic at scoring.
I’d go out on a limb here and say that improvement is unlikely with what we already have!!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:20
@Footy4Eddy: Yes I reported it with a link on the previous thread. Very sad indeed. A very good goalkeeper but unfortunately at the down side of his great career 32. Unfortunately for him his age and the emergence of two wunderkinds like Alder and Neuer shoved him to the back burner and this must have saddened him greatly. Although I cannot believe that such a thing would lead a man to commit suicide, and in such a dramatic manner. I do know that he lost his infant daughter in 2006 and that had an affect on him. Who knows exactly what drives a person to such extremes. A true tragedy and one that brings heart felt sadness to all in the football community all over the world.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:28
@Dan: He was a very good talent but hardly promising as he was very established and 32 years old. He was on the downside of his career and yet only the emergence of the two great young keepers was keeping him from being Germany’s number one keeper. He was a bit of a late bloomer as he never really showed much until he was around 27. But once he emerged, he really was outstanding. Before Adler and Neuer showed up he was only behind Kahn and Weidenfeller in my books as the best in Germany. Always good but always somebody was around that was a bit better. Great reflexes and aerial ability and strong positional sense is what made him Germany’s #1 for over a year. A real tragedy for the game and for his family. Sad thing was he was far from finished as a keeper too. He was the kind of keeper like EVDS who could have played until 40 because of his strong will and dedication to physical conditioning.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:35
@Footy4Eddy: I seriously doubt his suicide came about due to the loss of his daughter because that happened in 2006. But the fact that most recently he had been dropped my Germany as the #1 choice and Adler’s emergence in that role may have caused his depression or melancholy to rise to a point where treatment was needed but none was administered. I have never read anything about his loss having made him highly depressed or emotionally unstable but obviously something had to lead up to this. Still, I doubt that being dropped by Germany at 32 was the reason for him taking his life either. I hate being a cynic but when a healthy young man does something like this, 95% of the time it’s because he has been rejected or dumped by a woman. I’m not saying that is the reason but I would not rule it out until experts and the police rule it out. Just very sad and a horrible way to do it as well.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:48
My two cents on the ref issue.
Now I know they are all cunts, have very poor eyesight and are almost always biased against United. These are self evident truths and not up for debate here. But I would just like to make an observation or two!
How many of us would like to be in position of making a snap decision on something you thought you saw and then have the wrath of 11 rabid professionals and the eyes of perhaps 50,000 onlookers tell you are 100%, absolutely without question, no way Jose, ….wrong!!!
Well that’s what they face day in and day out. Are they sick of it, are they becoming prejudiced against their most fervent critics, you betcha!!
I would hazard a guess about the number of times the ref makes a bad decision in each game, and it would surely equal the number of correct calls he makes and then some. It is really a pathetic percentage and one that is effecting the result of games, and the behavior of the players.
The tit-for-tat philosophy that we see so often is now their justice system. One bad call deserves another, or, “if I fuck up for them, I must must fuck up again for the other side too”. It’s very crazy, but it’s the logic that prevails throughout the refereeing world!!
It has become a clear admittance of guilt for their blundering ways and without the slightest hesitation they will raise the standard of every day ethics to protect themselves from any critique that comes their way.
The autonomous nature in which they now operate has elevated them to an elite Tsar-like status, and regardless of their incompetence, they now demand total respect!!
Is it not time to consider some alternatives. Lest it be a consideration that moves us into the “un-comfort zone”. A sport so pure, so unencumbered by influences from lesser worlds, a game that has no equals in it’s fluidity – how dare we change it??
Well let it be said that that in order to change, one has to admit there’s a problem in the first place!! Do we actually think that reffing has got worse and now needs fixing, or do we think that bad reffing is just a part of the game – an element that stirs our emotions and rankles our sense of justice. A vital, human aspect that allows us all the luxury of being imperfect??
Of course there is that, but it doesn’t answer the question of how to make them more acurate with their decision making.
It’s clear to me that there is way too much going on for a single on-field official to oversee. Whether it’s a foul or a dive, a yellow card or a red, a goal or not a goal and of course an offside or not. He, even with assistants, cannot cover the amount of ground needed to be close to every incident.
I propose 3 things:
1/. A second on-field ref that would cover only half of the pitch.
2/. Video replay of any controversial decisions that involve “over the line” goals.
3/. Allowing each manager 1 instant replay in each half, on decisions he feels wrong.
The proposals would not slow down the game, and would implement a set of checks and balances that makes for a fairer game!!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:55
@Redrich: I like it. Penalty calls should be reviewed too… but having one instrant replay would take of that issue I guess.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:03
@Grognard: Yep this is sad news, and I feel especially for his wife and adopted child that he left behind!!
The Times has a news bit on this in which they say that it is becoming prevelent in German sports and particularly with Goalies!!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article6911627.ece
November 11th, 2009 at 5:15
@[OPTI]Madschester United: It would, and by allowing the manager to challenge the ref, within the rules, would alleviate all this back biting that goes on between them and the refs all the time.
How absurd is it that the FA has to hold court on what and how things can be said to the officials?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:30
@Redrich: Another addition to this could be a post match conference for the ref to explain his decisions. Why aren’t they accountable to the media glare. Let them man up and explain their decisions or admit if they screw up.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:50
@Red Ranter: I think this is the most logical and quick solution to an extent to the problems. I mean manager always find themselves in trouble because they talk about the referees but then why referees are immune from media question I really don’t understand. I mean one thing that they can very easily do is ask the referee as well as both manager on the same forum post match for not more than 10 mins. Referee can then easily put his point forward to managers as well as media by explaining the issues related to decisions he made. I am not saying he should be questioned as if he is guilty of some crime, but this way managers will be allowed to ask certain questions to referees where they feel they are hard done. I think what it will also bring is some fair dialogue between referees and managers which is seriously lacking right now. And then it may create better understanding between parties involved which will result in better credibility I suppose.
I am not saying it will solve the problem but, it can be first step towards solving it. Moreover, what it will do is it will take out the inconsistencies from the decisions as referees will be able to explain why he behaved in a particular manner in particular circumstances.
And why I feel this can be first step as it can be implimented immediately (as early as coming weekend of course if some one willing to do it) unlike other solution like two referees, technology etc which may take some time. I really hope some like interviewing referees should start..
November 11th, 2009 at 9:16
@Red Ranter: Putting them further under the spotlight will not help their on-field inadequacies and will do nothing to defuse the in-game frustrations that are often voiced by managers and players alike.
All this stuff about better training and harsh disciplinary consequences for poor game calling, is nonsense.
They are in in way above their heads and need help!!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:52
@Redrich: I don’t think putting them under spotlight won’t help. I think it would to a some extent. Why they are showing signs of inadequacies in there job??? For me there are couple of reasons for that.
Firstly… They are grossly bad and don’t have enough quality at all to do the given job…
Secondly due to the fact they are not answerable to media or public which creates that no bother attitude.. As they know that even when they are wrong they won’t be courted publicly..
I think if there is a case of First problem then I afraid but even technology won’t help to large extent, as to that technology you have to have some amount of competency. But, if there is second problem then all what you are saying is fine but at least start by taking first step forward. And I think the easiest and most effective step in short run which could be implemented. What it will does in my opion is it will at least referees answerable for their acts which may compel them to improve there own quality as well as output.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:14
I think the real deal is some introduction of video technology is necessary now in football. I think there’s a lot of stupidity in the mechanics and constitution of football. For instance, they use video technology for the ridiculous Dubious Goals Committee to verify the goalscorer of dubious goals. So whom do they credit for Adebayor’s volleyball goal where he applied both hands to score? Why can’t that very same system and philosophy be applied to actually verify if a goal was actually a goal? There’s clearly a stop and long pause when goals are scored so it won’t hinder the flow of the game. If the assistant referee is unsure, he quickly calls for a video check which shouldn’t take over 30 seconds. And it’s not very often that such calls have to be made. Another stupid rule in football where you can’t appeal a certain unjust yellow or red card should be done away with.
November 11th, 2009 at 15:51
Enke comitted suicide because he was suffering from depression and because he had prestation worries as a goalkeeper.
This is why I tell you to be kinder to Foster, my God how fucking stupid can you be?!
Players are people, even German keepers(the most emotionless players in the world according to Grognard) got an emotional crack because he suffered from depression and because he was worried about how he would perform. Hope you guys open your eyes because of this incident… 
November 11th, 2009 at 16:25
@Footy4Eddy: I hope your joking about the whole foster link.
November 11th, 2009 at 16:37
@Johnsom33: Why would I possibly joke about that? We all know Saha suffered from depression because he was injured so much and he got stick from the fans, and I cant exactly say Foster is very different can I? I said this a time ago when Foster was getting stick like I have never seen a player do ever before, by his own fans! After what happend with Enke, I would not rule out even the most crazy, non-believable things. Its sad really…
November 11th, 2009 at 17:10
From the Fasci.. sorry, Daily Mail: “Manchester United are giving a trial to Austrian goalkeeper Michael Langer. The 24-year-old is currently second-choice at German club Freiburg behind France goalkeeper Simon Pouplin but is still highly regarded.”
Oh no, another Ben Foster…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1226770/Manchester-United-continue-keeper-hunt-handing-Michael-Langer-trial.html
November 11th, 2009 at 17:16
Fergie in Copenhagen:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fergie-has-blind-date-with-Manchester-United-transfer-target-at-awards-dinner-article217801.html
Simon Kjær?
November 11th, 2009 at 17:23
@Footy4Eddy: You gives fans on Internet forums FAR to much credit. I would be suprised if he browsed forums to begin with. I would be even more shocked if he actually was affected by what he read.
If a few anonymous fans on a rant site are gonna drive you to suicide, then I would suggest the problems are a littler bigger than stick.
Foster isn’t being forced to be a footballer, he isn’t forced to play for Manchester United. He choose to do what he does. He is incredibly blessed to do what he does and Im sure he knows that. When playing professional sports you have to take the good with the bad. He gets the fame and fortune, but he is also has to take everything that comes with it.
He has a dream job, millions of dollars, prolly the pick of any bird he wants, yet Internet critics are gonna tip the balance and drive him to suicide.
November 11th, 2009 at 17:25
So I was listening to Sundays Chappers podcast and mark chapman said that he heard on good authority that David villa to united in January is a done deal.
Anyone else hear this, or hear anything remotely like this?
November 11th, 2009 at 17:33
@Redrich: Those proposals are excellent recommendations. So excellent in fact that there is no way the FA would ever look at them. The FA would not be the FA if it weren’t for them having their collective heads up there collectives asses. These proposals have been talked about for years and still, nothing has been done about it. They just don’t get it. Until there is a Gorbachevesque regime change within the head offices of the FA, nothing will ever change for the better.
November 11th, 2009 at 17:42
david davies wants to see technology utilized ;
Davies is also a firm advocate of new technology. He argues: “I support it and would like to see it introduced for both goal line decisions and for offsides.”
LINK
November 11th, 2009 at 17:49
@Footy4Eddy: No one is immune from criticism. Saha had issues, but they weren’t because fans gave him stick. It was guilt over being an expensive transfer at the time but not living up to the expectations due to injury. Depression is not exactly a mood, it is more a condition due to trauma of some sort. It could develop into a chronic state and could happen regardless of fan criticism.
When has Foster (or even Saha for that matter) been booed at Old Trafford for instance? That in my opinion is far worse and can have a more direct influence. Players are generally taught to deal with criticism all their lives. So don’t turn the suicide of a keeper (due to completely different circumstances, mind) to ask us to lay off Foster. I’ll give credit to him when he’s due, and criticise when it need be.
November 11th, 2009 at 17:52
@Grognard: But Gorbachevesque regime changes only end in tears. They might end up being run by Putin (who’s just as bad as Mikhail’s predecessors.)
November 11th, 2009 at 17:53
@Johnsom33: By chance I listened to Chappers podcast yesterday, and heard that. It surprises me to be honest, because Villa has been at pains to inform all and sundry about his intention to remain at Spain.
Also he turns 28 in December. With a tight-fisted United, keen on “returns on investment” Villa isn’t going to do that.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:06
Also, I am inclined to trust Chapman — he’s a decent chap (no pun intended) and a United fan — but it’s also possible the high ranking official at the mystery Premier League club just decided to yap in order to plant the story. These things happen.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:15
Story about Nani having a bust up with Fergie doing the rounds on the web.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:26
@Redrich: I suffered from depression in the early to mid 90’s due to the breakup of my relationship. It was a terrible time for me as i never wanted to get out of bed and this factor caused my business to eventually fail because I was not there to manage it and also because I just didn’t give a damn. But for me at least, no matter how bad it got, I never felt like taking my life. I was angry at the world, at my ex at everyone but myself. In the end, I actually snapped out of it, not by pills or therapy, but by sheer willpower and the fact that a great job came along that gave me back my self esteem and purpose to go on.
It’s actually still with me a bit as I do fall into this funks every so often but the fact remains that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain that I believe is caused by people’s high expectations of themselves and man’s insensitivity to this malady. Robert Enke was known to have depression yet he kept it under raps because he did not want it to affect aspects of his life. Mistake number one. Not only did he hurt himself by keeping it a secret, but those who did know of it, did very little to help him. People with depression are shown far too much respect and consideration when in reality what they need is a big kick in the backside and to be taken by the ear to the nearest specialist to begin treatment. Very few of them ever cure or manage the illness by themselves like I did. They need help and treating them with kid gloves and respecting their space does no good whatsoever.
I especially have a problem with those who perceivably have everything that life can offer but who still feel their life is forfeit and who act or are suicidal. Robert Enke was Germany’s number one keeper, he was about to go to the World Cup, he had many friends and colleagues that loved him and respected him, he was a millionaire, so financial pressures should have been nil and void and above all, he had a wife and a child that loved him. But that just wasn’t good enough. When somebody who has it all takes his life, not only has he failed, but everyone around him has a role to play in not seeing the signs and not doing something to help him. I have nothing but compassion for those who have lost everything and who from appearance have nothing to live for because life has truly dealt them a bad hand, but yet the vast majority of those people strive and fight on. Why? Because depression is disease of vanity. A doctor once told me this. Most who suffer from it suffer due to their unrealistic expectations of themselves and those around them. He told me that ego has more to do with destroying the human mind than any disease. For football players who have a lot of pressure to perform and who have the expectations of millions on their backs, it has to be very hard to live with their expectations as well as their very own. And when injuries befall them or personal traumas, they often cannot cope. Sebastian Deisler is a great example. This bloke tried to kill himself on a few occasions. His depression goes well beyond his footballing career and the bad luck he had with numerous knee injuries. But seriously, what did his club Bayern Munich do to help him? As far as I could see, they did nothing of a preventative measure. They never got him counseling or any kind of medical attention until he actually tried to kill himself
I’m wondering today if Hannover 96, Enke’s German club were aware of his medical condition and what they did to help him cope. I would bet my life savings that they did absolutely nothing. And neither did the German national team. They all do nothing when it counts but when it’s too late they all come out and cry and offer their condolences and act shocked and horrified by something that was staring them in the face for years but something they chose to ignore out of sheer ignorance and also out of callousness.
The team should have got Enke serious counseling after he lost his daughter and this should have continued. They may have and I am unaware of it but from the outside looking in, it appears to me that they failed. Why was he not on medication? Meds do a wonderful job on most depression cases controlling the Serotonin levels in his brain which are the main cause of depression. I was told years ago when I was depressed by one psychologist that I sought out (I went only to one appointment) that there are two types of depression. There is the external and the internal. External depression is caused by outside factors causing you hurt and grief, and internal is something you are either born with or some kind of trauma that has stayed with you subconsciously from early childhood. He told me that mine was external because the factors that were leading to my depression were caused by others doing something to me. Fair enough. Once I heard that I said to myself, I do not need drugs and I am no longer going to let these individuals fuck with my life. And from that day on I did the things that led me out of the darkness.
From the outside looking in, I would guess that Enke’s depression was also external. The loss of his daughter, the fact that he had lost his position as #1 keeper for Germany, the paranoia that he had about his depression possibly causing authorities to take away his adopted daughter all lead one to believe that this was the case. But we all suffer losses and failures in life and this doesn’t cause us to one to kill ourselves. So my belief that his illness ran very deep inside him and was something he was probably born with.
I feel very saddened by this event as I was a fan of Robert Enke and I just feel upset that nothing was done to prevent this tragedy. I feel in my gut that his teams, his friends and his family dropped the ball on this because all the signs were there for a serious intervention. Deisler got help after it was almost too late. I hope that professional and amateur sport also learn from this because the world is cruel and athletes will be abused and after all, they are only human beings and can only take so much in many cases. Fan abuse forced Enke to leave Fenerbahce and Barcelona. He could not cope with it. I now look at myself and feel rather bad at my insensitivity towards certain players on Manchester United. Not that they read this blog or my comments but nevertheless, my treatment of them has not been kind and if they had personal frailties that I am not aware of, then I would have felt very guilty for making them more depressed.
So I offer my apologies to players like Ben Foster and Louis Saha and even to Anderson (who probably couldn’t even read what I wrote anyway) for my honest yet mean spirited dissection of their talents. Regardless of what one might think of another, it’s best to keep it to one’s self. Professional footballers suffer enough pressure. No money in the world is worth the abuse that some of them receive. I contribute to that but I have to say, I do feel a little ashamed after you see somebody take his life. Sure, he probably didn’t kill himself over anything fans said of him, but still, how many have suffered from depression specifically because of the abuse of fans and media? Lesson learned. I will still criticize but I will do it with more restraint and consideration. Warning. When it comes to John Terry and the Drogba, the gloves stay off. They can rot as far as I’m concerned.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:40
@Red Ranter: Right you are but incredibly unrealistic. If you had that kind of environment for officiating in any sport, tell me, just who would apply to be a referee? The answer is nobody with any common sense. It takes a certain kind of individual to want to be a cop, and it’s the same with officials. Control freaks who like to be in charge and who do not like to be told what to say and do. They like to dictate and order others around. Now try telling a group like them that changes are in place where they will have to explain their decisions and actions and have to have their every move reviewed and scrutinized. They would all quit.
The best way to deal with this is what Redrich brought up and what the NFL has used for years, INSTANT REPLAY. Allow each manager one challenge every half and one more in overtime games (like and FA Cup replay that is tied after regulation time. Rarely is there more than one major call made against a team in one half. We cannot have the game be slowed down to a snail’s pace after all. Let the challenge be heard and the time that it takes to review the situation be added to the end of each half. For me this is fair. And let there be special reviews that are not charged to the managers be made for debatable goals or shots that went over the line but were not called goals. Those must be the responsibility of the FA to examine after a stoppage in play. For me this is fair as you cannot completely eliminate human error from the game.
Finally, the FA has to have a stricter more severe form of selection and training as well as maintenance of their officials. Too many fat out of shape blind, slow and biased referees are presently polluting the British game. These part time chartered accountants and green grocers need to go back to their day jobs and younger, more physically fit and more morally and ethically superior individuals must take their place. And try no to have a ref that has burned Fergie more than once, continue to ref Man Utd games. It only leads to the firestorm that we have already seen.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:45
@Onkar: Inadequacies are found in NFL officials every week because of Instant Replay but they go on and they just have to live with it. They make a good living and if they want to continue with it, they have to bite the bullet and accept the scrutiny. Besides, half the time they review a play, the officials are proven right so for every time they are wrong and they feel embarrassed, there are the other half times they are proven right and can walk around like a horny peacock. Fair is fair. After all, it’s not about them, it’s about the teams and the final result. Once refs start thinking they are that important, then the game falls under their martial law. Not going to happen. If league football is a restaurant, referees are nothing more than the dishwasher. Necessary but disposable.
November 11th, 2009 at 18:57
@Grognard: My suggestion was in addition to Redrich’s proposals.
I wouldn’t go with replays straight away. I will first trial having more referees that Platini suggested. the line referee that is being used in the Europa league (where the ref stands right on the line in the penalty box) would have ensured Ngog’s dive wouldn’t have been given. He would also have caught Drogba’s blatant foul on Brown.
Having more officials like they do in NFL and Baseball is a good start as they will be given specialised tasks making it easier to concentrate.
On top of this, one can have the challenge. Since this means the chances of stopping play would be reduced, to the most blatant mistake by a referee. This ensures the game won’t be stopped that often.
I think a referee having a post match conference isn’t too unrealistic. I saw that used in baseball, so why not in football?
November 11th, 2009 at 19:08
@RedRanter – Saha has been booed a number of times especially at Old Trafford. Rio, Giggs and more recently Nani. We’re notorious for being insensitive fans and being harsh on players. The manager was booed also. So maybe Eddy has a point though he has exaggerated. Players also read newspapers. They also watch the news and listen to phone ins on radio and tv. Reporters read these blogs and in their articles they do indicate how so and so is much despised. So imagine you read that as a player in a newspaper, on the way home you hear the same criticism in your car radio then you get home and on the phone ins everyone is reminding everyone else how useless you are and how you’re a source of great frustration. Now if it stops there then it wouldn’t be a big issue because players should take criticism as men. But when you get to the game and there is a chorus of boos that can be a bit heavy. Well paying jobs my foot. Those are the highest risks on depression. There stakes and implications are far higher emotionally. You can have the whole world praising you and your confidence shoots up through the roof. Then the whole world makes you feel like the most base person in existence. The shame on your family and things like that. I’m pretty sure Nani and Foster’s confidence are at their lowest. And this stupid idea that players should have character even under such circumstances has no logical basis. If you check in the previous threads, I talked about how the shameless Old Trafford “faithful” were booing Nani as he was subbed off for Obertan. These things will usually have a counterproductive effect and they player’s performance will dip and the vicious cycle continues.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:19
@Jay wire: I don’t live in Manchester so I can’t speak from first hand observation. However, I find it hard to believe Nani was booed. Otherwise, we would have had reports in fan forums and people bringing it up. Your report, aside, I haven’t seen it anywhere else. And if you can show me, I will take it back. (And if I see sufficient evidence I will condemn it.)
That said, I have a different opinion of booing. Rio was booed because he was acting like a twat with the whole mess of flirting with Kenyon and Chelsea. And in such situations it’s ok to boo someone to make them understand and come to their senses. Booing players for poor performances, on the other hand, is repugnant in my opinion and has the most adverse and direct effect on players’ confidence.
That kind of booing is completely different from off field criticism of players. Criticism on the other hand, is something all public figures are subject to. And it’s left to people to decide for themselves if they want to or not. All this outside criticism however, won’t mean much if the player has the complete backing of the club management. And I think Ferguson and the coaching staff don’t seem to have that confidence on Nani and (it seems it’s increasingly decreasing for) Foster. That is what is bound to affect players.
Also, I don’t recall Saha being booed at OT. We’ve never booed players because they were injured. He’s been a target of jokes as Mr Glass — all in good fun — but a lot of people recognized his value in the first half of 06/07 season. The only person I know who brutally lambasted Saha for being perennially injured is Grognard.
I don’t know of any incident where he was actually booed at OT. So if you can similarly point out to any article where he was booed in the stadium I’ll have a look.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:39
@Jay wire: Also the only person I can recall who was booed by a few fans was Giggs in 02 if I’m right. But you knew there was no way he was going to be affected by that because:
1. It was ridiculous in the first place.
2. The amount of support he had in the dressing room and coaching staff, was unlike any other.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:39
@Grognard: Well written piece mate, and what I was trying to get through with my earlier statement of why we should be more careful with what we say about players. They get money to perform, an awful amount of money, and that brings an awful lot of pressure to perform. I brought that up in my english exam when talking about wrong use of money, how paying celebrities and leading examples too much money as it may make them bad. I never thought it would actually go as far as suicide, but I said it could damage self-esteem and bring people down mentally. If not directly mentally, it may make them do things and take drugs that may “improve” their body physique. I used Adriano and Ronaldo(fatty) as examples.
And if I may just add, the reason this suicide has hit me so hard is because when I was younger, at the age of 11-12, I was suffering from depression. It was not something I was born with or had permantenly, but there was a lot going against me at that time. I have no brothers or sister, so Im very close to my parents. Especially my mom, she was probably the one who raised me the most. My dad was a decent guy, but didnt know how to take care of a child so he left all the work to my mom. I never had a proper connection to my dad until I was 13 or 14. Anyway, when I was elleven I had a hard time. I liked girls, unlike other guys who seemed afraid of then, so because I used to spend time with girls and hit on them I was getting mocked and left out. When I played for my team I always did well, and when ew played football I was always the one who was given the ball. But expect from my coach, I never got any credit for what I did. All the other lads, when I scored a goal, would not come to celebrate with me like they would when the other guys scored. I would smile, turn my back and watch all my teammates just look at me, shake their heads and turn around. Whenever they were doing thigns, like going to a cinema or just hanging out doing homework together, they would always tell me I had no business to do with them and should just piss off. At that age, I was probably the only one not having a best friend. I had a few friends, but they would never support me. As things went on I felt left out, even the girls started turning against me(backstabbers as you know) because the boys in my class gave out a rumour. It was something with me having a disease, I dunno exactly what but it made the girls stay away from me and call me names. As time went on I felt the whole world was turning against me. My mom lost her job, I didnt have any proper friends and was left out, I was being bullied and hit when I tried to be friendly, my teacher always blamed me for things others did, I was starting to get picked last for football and I just plainly felt left out. Nobody loved me, nobody wanted me, I felt so volnurable and alone. Alone. At the age of 11. I did everythign in my power to become loved and get friends, but just because I was more mature, better than them at most things they were jealous and left me out. Then they bullied me for lots of things, most of all me being chubby.
Ive always been a chubby fella, I wont deny that I still am. I like to eat, and I have a powerful body structure. But I am one of the fittest guys you will see out there. I take 16 kgs on one hand, at least 250 situps and 200 pushups each day. I can run faster and longer than most people in my team, let alone my school and area! So I am not bothered about it now, as its not a problem for me. I dont get picked on for it anymore as people know me, but at that age it was diifficult.
So there I was, unloved and alone. Left out of society at life as I knew it. Mom having difficulties, and because we had such a close bond she told me many things. “Its difficult to get a job”, “We may face some financial difficulties”, “I know some people hate me, but what can I do about it?” etc. etc. So, it actually went as far as me considering taking my life. There was this movie on TV one day about a guy, which I at that time saw myself in, difficulties in every way, who ended his life by throwing himself in front of a train. At that time I was told that people would start a new life when they died, so I thought why not? Life sucks, its all wrong, I dont like myself or anybody else. Why do I live at all when I am so miserable? I was already out of my friends group, and I had started ditching school because I wondered what the fuck is the point? Most things were just like “Fuck it, why bother?!”. So I actually came close to comitting suicide at the age of 11! It was rough, its a part I dont wanna remember. Still, its a vital part of my life. I had actually decided the way to do it, it had went that far. But suddenly one day when I was waking up I just took a walk around my house. I was lost in thought, just walking around. When I saw this little puppy coming at me, starting to play with me. It made me happy. The owner of the dog was just a year older than me, so when he saw me play with his dog and came up to me and asked if I was Eddy. I said yeah, and wondered why he asked. He told me he had seen me play before, that he thought I was awesome and better than most people my age group. I played footy with him that day, his dog also joining in at times. He told me I should keep improving my play, as I had a bright future. It was the first time anybody except my coach or parents had told me I was a good player. I still look back on that day with great joy. It was the first time in many months I had actually been happy. When I came home I thought of it again. I started thinking sense, telling myself I was young and times would change. I had a bright future ahead of me, and there were actually people out there, people I hadnt met, who would love me one day. I was gonna find a girl, start a family, and become a greta footballplayer. My parents still loved me, and even though my friends hated me I started to look on it a different way. I realised they were only jealous. So I started challenging them at stuff, telling them they were chicken if they didnt show up. I always won, and I earned respect. Like they say, I was hated and respected. Just like United.
As time went on I started gaining confidence, life went better and as I grew up things went easier. Whether it would be with chicks, family, friends or football. I love myself today, and Im a cheerful and optimistic person because I know that there is no point in being unhappy or picturing the worst when things are going against you. In the end, they will always work out if you face your difficulties and know that if one thing fucks up, you have another chance or another way to make your wishes happen. Like Jose would say, Chin up!
Its always worth to make an effort…
November 11th, 2009 at 19:40
@Jay wire: Im sorry but every job has it’s pros and cons. I don’t hear people crying for Obama, he takes shit from all angles 24 hours a day. He can turn on the tv at any hour and hear “experts” picking apart his every word. You don’t see him crying about it.
Football is a great job, but just like every other job in the world it has the good and the bad.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:43
@Red Ranter: why was he booed??? I missed the 00-03 seasons due to my unfamiliarity with american television and poor internet access.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:45
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Poor form, mainly. Still, no excuses. He was a legend even in 2002. I was disgusted at that.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:49
@[OPTI]Madschester United: It’s also one of the reasons why Beckham (and a lot of observers) remarked, Giggsy always proves his critics wrong. He continues to reinvent himself.
November 11th, 2009 at 19:56
I think criticism, when justified to a reasonable extent, is perfectly alright. It’s what keeps players, managers honest and away from their comfort zone. Booing, for poor performances, injury etc, is rubbish and I condemn it.
But I think the biggest responsibility for players’ mental health in the modern game is the support structure around him — ie., the club, close friends, and people around the player, and a specialist to talk to a player on a more emotional level. And that, I think, is seriously lacking in a lot of clubs.
Grognard mentioned the other day about the book he was reading, Soccernomics, and I would recommend reading it — most of the book makes a lot of sense. Anyway, the book talks about clubs not having a relocation adviser for instance. Someone who would make a foreign player feel at home, advise him on his choice of house, the best school for his kids, get a teacher to acclimatise in his new surroundings etc. Most clubs treat players like products, the book says. “Give the player money and leave it up to him to negotiate a foreign country for himself.”
It worries me a lot of clubs don’t pay attention to this aspect of players. Most players are from middle class or poor background, and with the sudden wage bump and fortune in a big club, they are left swimming against the pressures to perform, the lure of wealth, glitz, glamour etc.
Money can bring happiness, but it can also, more often than not, bring a lot of worry and depression if not dealt the right way.
November 11th, 2009 at 21:24
Sorry but Giggs was never booed at OT, that is rubbish his form and crossing was poor but he was NEVER booed, neither was Saha, he was popular with fans but would never play unless he was 100% which fucked a tlot of fans off, Keane used to play when he could hardly walk.
As for Nani, well he probably should be booed simply because he has been awful, but he hasn’t he has been groaned at a lot.
November 11th, 2009 at 21:38
@RedRanter – I heard Saha being booed. Nani was booed and it’s actually very recent. I reported it in one of the most recent threads. I first saw it in on Republic of Mancunia with people who were at Old Trafford reporting that there was a significant chorus of boos especially when Nani was being taken off. You’re talking about Giggs in 03, well guess what he was booed in 08 also and there was a big assault on him on MUTV with Paddy Crerand voicing his great disgust with people phoning. The manager himself was booed as he was trying to deliver his appreciation speech on our last home game when Chelsea last won and the whole world knows it. So trust me if they can boo the manager, they’ll have no problems doing that to a player. I’m all for criticism which is constructive but when it becomes excessive and with malicious intent it becomes a problem. These are human beings and someone was comparing the scenario to Obama. Wow. This is a president who is identified by many as the most powerful man in the world. His decisions can literally come down to life and death so he can expect unreasonable people to direct their unreasonable insults at him. Failing to clear the ball on time or not delivering quality crosses is not on the same level as withdrawing troops from Afghanistan or opening to negotiations with regimes others view as terrorists. So yes, we should be reasonable in our criticism and it should be constructive rather than counterproductive and malicious
November 11th, 2009 at 21:38
@Stephen: I don’t think players should be booed for poor form/performances etc. Maybe if they act like complete twats and show complete disregard for the club or fans, but for poor form I think it’s sad.
And regarding Giggs getting booed, I googled it up just now since you mentioned he wasn’t and here are two places I found articles referring to it: (I thought it was 2002, but it may have happened in 2003)
1. Here and 2. here
November 11th, 2009 at 21:45
@Jay wire: As I said, I don’t condone booing of players for poor performances, especially when it’s obvious a player is trying his best. Full stop. Criticism off the pitch, over here, in boards, is a matter of personal opinion.
November 11th, 2009 at 21:48
@Red Ranter: I can’t recall that mate at all, but wasn’t at either game but will say the Mirror isn’t exactly the Bible, I find United fans very patient, sometimes too patient unlike Spurs or Villa fans who are perminantly booing their team or players.
November 11th, 2009 at 21:52
In fairness maybe fans pay their money and should be allowed to have a voice, if some players performances have been pathetic, like Nani at times for example they should know sometimes what the people who pay their wages think of them but saying that I don’t condone it and have never done it but can understand it.
November 11th, 2009 at 21:58
@Stephen: I agree that United fans, by and large are much more patient. Even when our patience was tested to the limits over Ronaldo I’m pretty sure, he’ll get a decent reception when he returns because a lot of fans have been resigned to his departure inevitably. Especially, compared to Villa and Spurs fans to Barry or Sol Campbell (although both are English and came through their ranks.)
I can understand booing if players behave like they are the best thing since sliced bread and treat fans/club like crap. I thought Rio deserved every bit of abuse back then, and it helped as he came to his senses.
November 11th, 2009 at 22:03
@Redrich:
Allowing replays in a non-stop (no breaks) game like football is not ideal. However, in penalty decisions if the ref blows the whistle then a 5th official upstairs in a booth could quickly review that and either:
1) Confirm the decision or,
2) Disallow the penalty for diving/no-touch and book the diver.
Usually if a penalty is not awarded the ball is cleared or gathered up by the GK leading to a break and chance for review without breaking the run of play/momentum of a team. The same is usually true for goal-line scrambles where the ball appears to have crossed the line. There is usually a long clearance or GK gets the ball and the 5th official can quickly, efficiently, and accurately see whether the ball crossed the line in less than 20 seconds. These are the only instances in which i can see that the technology SHOULD be used. Having each manager challenge a call and stop the game is ludicrous and could potentially serve as a timeout to stop the other teams momentum which is not fair. Also, with the introduction of video technology we also risk that all refereeing becomes technologicalized which is not how the game is, or was, ever played.
In reference to swarming of the referee i think that ONLY the captains and parties involved should be allowed to talk/yell to the ref. Any other player that swarms the ref should be yellow carded; if that then leads to a red, so be it.
November 11th, 2009 at 22:05
@Red Ranter: I agree he will get a decent reception but God knows why, his behaviour towards the manager and his vague ambiguous comments about his future were nothing short of disgraceful but he scored a lot of goals so maybe people are seduced by his preening, posing and arrogance but for me he is no doubt a great player that can never be taken away but he is certainly not a great man.
November 11th, 2009 at 22:19
@Grognard: I’m sorry hear of your problems, mate and I agree with what you’re saying here.
Most people go through “funks” or “depressions” at some point of their lives, and most of us pull our way out of it, as you did. But the key is, as you say, that those that do not, must have an observant support system around them – making sure that they are counseled and medicated if necessary.
For someone with such a high public profile, you would have thought that help should have been forthcoming from many sides!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 22:24
@ Stephen – It’s best not to say things like never when you’re not certain. Giggs was booed and you can read plenty of articles on that on the internet. Just google Giggs boo boys. Even O’Shea has been jeered. The manager has been booed, Nani was booed also. These are facts and no matter how we try to underplay them they are still solid facts
November 11th, 2009 at 23:06
@Grognard: Bloody hell, that was a good read!
Sound thinking and writing and well thought of…
And I’m not saying this because of the last two paragraphs , it was the part about depression and how to deal with it that I found most interesting, so there you go!
November 11th, 2009 at 23:24
@Grognard: I don’t know if you have, but I think you will appreciate this piece — and it focuses on German footballers mainly (although it applies to most sportsmen in the public glare).
Everyone should read it, it’s quite appropriate (albeit in a sad way).
November 11th, 2009 at 23:29
@Stephen: I have to say that I distinctly remember Giggs being booed quite regularly during a certain period of his career.
It was during what one would expect to be his peak years, 27-28 years old, but at that time Giggs still hadn’t mastered the art of properly corssin the ball, unlike Beckham. He would get booed when he lost the ball with a dribble to many, a poor pass, or a poor cross.
One thing with Giggs too from that time is that it took a number of games to get him going and could go through patches of bad form before hitting form, just like Rooney does nowadays.
From my television souvenris Id go as far as saying that even Beckham wasn’t booed half as much as Giggs was!
November 11th, 2009 at 23:35
@NicoQB: Giggs, to be fair, has never really been the best crosser. His strength has always been his pace and ability to beat players. Also he used to be a much more prolific scorer than in his later years.
But none of this excuses booing him.
November 11th, 2009 at 23:55
@Red Ranter: Stefan *Kuntz*???
Ha!!!
November 12th, 2009 at 0:08
@Footy4Eddy: Thank God For that Dog then!!!
Really I’m so happy that you’ve made it through Eddy and now we got to know you a bit and maybe you have a promising career in front of you.
Your story was very touching and a window on how childish, petty whims and misunderstandings can have very drastic consequences.
Anyway, just promise me you’ll never consider suicide again…
Love life!!!
November 12th, 2009 at 0:08
@NicoQB: Eeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy, NicoBarbeque!!!
Kuntz? 
Kuntz? 
KUNTZ?! 
Nighty night folks!
November 12th, 2009 at 0:14
@NicoQB: I tell ya, if I could start a campaign it would be against bullying. It nearly drove me to madness, but thankfully I got that lucky break which you need to live a happy life. That incident may have hurt me a lot at that time, but now I look back on it as a wakeup call and maybe a reason to why I am the person I am today.
Happy, challenging, confident, not got any problems dealing with people, in any kind of way, and in the words of my friends I am guy you wanna be with in diffiult circumstances and when you need support. What doesnt kill me makes me stronger. 
I am happy with what Ive become, and I tell ya something like that will never happen again. 
But when I read things such as what happend to Enke I feel very emotional.
It hit me hard, and Ive felt kinda sick today. It came as a shock, no way I would have suspected something like that to happen! And when I learn more about Enke, it just becomes tougher. 
I feel for the lad, I honestly do…
November 12th, 2009 at 1:11
@Red Ranter: Strong suggestion but my problem with that is that do we need yet one more idot on the pitch to see things the wrong way?
I have no faith or trust in them at this time mate. I do have faith in video tape however.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:15
@Red Ranter: That Grognard guy.
What a bastard. Lets boo him instead. BOOOOOO BOOOOO NASTY MISERABLE GROGNARD. BOOO BOOOO YOU BIG FAT BASTARD CANUCK 
November 12th, 2009 at 1:45
@Footy4Eddy: WOW! Amazing stuff there Eddy. You have been through a rough childhood, but trust me mate, you are not alone in that department. Many adults today are scarred human beings who carry many emotional and physical scars due to terrible childhoods. You were strong and you survived it and you will be better for it, believe me. Your courage and your willpower won the day and you will continue to succeed if you count on those human strengths that you possess.
I have to say with all honesty I had a fantastic childhood. I had plenty of friends and was very popular with a number of different peer groups. I was an excellent 5 sport athlete (US style football, hockey, basketball, baseball and golf) and I was a leader and usually captain or the first one picked on most teams. In fact, before I shot my knee up in university, I had the potential to make it as a pro in the Canadian Football League as a defensive lineman (I was a big tall heavy and strong MOFO).
I fit in with all these different groups because was a bit of a chameleon. I could fit in with the geeks, the jocks, the rocker head bangers or the lady killers. I just seem to have all the right stuff. Although I was very popular and outgoing with a good sense of humor, I was also respected and feared because of my strong personality but most of all, my physical presence. Being 6′5″ in junior high school and high school is a great advantage. But I wasn’t a troublemaker or a problem kid. I never looked or seeked out fights but if somebody challenged me or did something to offend or deeply irritate me, they suffered for it physically.
Bottom line is I was popular and good at nearly everything I did except algebra (I could never wrap my head around math that involved letters instead of numbers
). The ladies liked me but I avoided them at school as I really felt they were beneath me. My first dates and sexual encounters were while I was working at my uncle’s steakhouse as a dishwasher and then cook. I dated and had sex with older women and believe me, nothing is better than older women who not only know what they are doing, but boy did they teach me well. When you are 16 and you have been with with a sexy tall 30 year old blonde like I was my first time, trust, 16 year old girls are junk in your eyes afterwards. For years I had a habit of dating women 5 to 15 years older than me. All beautiful and all totally into me in a big way. Two actually proposed marriage to me. I liked them but didn’t love them and also,, I am still a traditionalist who likes the man to pop the question so I turned them down. Who knows what would have become of me. Funny thing is that my two truest loves, were both much younger than me. When I started dating my ex, she was 18 and I was 25. And before her I was into a my close friends sister who wanted me bad and who would have made a great wife. She was 16 I was 23 and she was smart, virtuous, blonde, beautiful and GERMAN. 
I blew it big time because that girl was special and she would have made a good wife and mother to my children. Instead I got obsessed with a model at a nightclub who took my breath away with her beauty and who literally destroyed my life after ten years of absolute bliss.
Any, forgive me for digressing. My point after my long exposition is that you have been strong in your youth but it is important to learn from that and move on. It sounds like you have and for that I applaud you. Trust me Eddy, the world is better off and will definitely benefit from your decision to stick around. I am a religious person although I am not one for going to church so at the risk of sprerading faith to those who may not want it, let me say this. It is my sincere belief that that young man with the dog who came into your life in one of your darkest moments was a gift from God. Sometimes God works in that way I believe. He sends someone to interject their optimism and or positive influence on those who need it. That boy and that dog helped you a great deal. I don’t know if you are still friends with that person but if I was you , I’d look him up and I would thank him and give him a big hug. Who knows, maybe he needs that kind of love in his life.
I’m presently having a shot of rye while I write this mate so let me stand up and toast you now. Heres to Eddy, one of the strong ones and all the best to you as you become the star we all know you will be in the game of football. Thanks for sharing that personal experience with us all.
PS: And keep on shagging.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:48
@Johnsom33: Look mate, any man who goes into politics better be damned well prepared for the abuse because that is part and parcel to the job. They all have thick skins and little scruples and those two things get them through the day. Those as well as blind ambition. Obama is a strong man and a very well prepared man for that kind of hate and abuse. Football players aren’t that mentally prepared for the abuse they will take.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:55
@Red Ranter: Excellent point. Relocation situation and having that club liaison who is there to see to the needs of the player and his family is so vital and such a small price to pay for clubs when you consider what they invest in players, especially foreign ones. You get the feeling that United did very little to help Tevez get acclimated to things as he doesn’t even speak English yet. Isn’t Olympic Lyon just a fantastically run organization that not only know how to run a team on the field, but off it too?
In fact as soon as my new Football Manager arrives, I plan on building a team using all those rules that Lyon use. I want to see how far it gets me. Buy young and sell before they peak.
I also liked the fact that they buy only 20 to 22 year old players, French speaking and when it comes to foreign countries where French is not a language, they stick to one (in their case Brazil) and place an expert talent scout that is there to poach the good ones with a good head on their shoulders. Douglas Costa need not bother to apply.
Everybody who loves the game of football should buy a copy of “Soccernomics” It will change your way of thinking about the game for good. Incredible WOW factor.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:01
@Stephen: Yes mate but lets not forget that he gave the club six exceptional seasons and a lot of thrills. That has to count for something. When you bring up a child there are stage like the “Terrible Two’s” and early adolescence where you feel like smothering the little bastards but then you think of all those other years where they showed you love and trust and were cute as a button and it so outperforms those bad periods. That’s the way I feel about Ronny. Yes he was a king sized jerk but he was also a gift from the soccer gods too.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:06
@Redrich: Thanks for that Red. You are absolutely right. They must have a support group around that is very aggressive. Don’t just tell the person they needs help and pat him or her on the shoulder, but actually intervene in a serious manner and get them to a doctor ASAP.
I helped a cousin recently because he had fallen into a bad way after he lost his business and afte rhis falling out with his father. He was stubborn but I wouldn’t leave him alone. He was recently assaulted in a road rage incident where had his face and skull fractured and where he needed some reconstructive surgery and he never wanted to sue the Chinese gang that did it to him. Fortunately I was there to shout some sense into him and now he has finally proceeded with laying formal criminal charges against the the four punks and is also suing them for millions. None of this would have happened unless an enlightened individual was there to wake him up and assist him in his times of need.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:09
@NicoQB: Just speaking from personal experience mate. Perhaps to some professionals I might be seen as wrong, but I often think some of the trained professionals in the psychiatric field have shit for brains. Sometimes people just need a strict helping hand or a wake up call and that can go a long way. Where were all of Robert Enke’s friends and family. My God, to be suicidal, nobody that bad off can hide his problem that well. I think all those around him and especially his team, let him down supremely.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:29
@Red Ranter: Great article. Thanks for that RR. I was a big Sebastian Deisler fan and I felt he had the talent to be a Balon D’Or winner had he stayed healthy. A real shame his career ended so soon but thankfully, he is still with us. I also have to ask one question. Why is it that some German footballers choose to step in front of moving trains in order to commit suicide? Enke wasn’t the only one. Very strange.
One aspect to depression that is not discussed is that it often cause the depressed individual not to take his life, but to take the life of others. The recent case of the officer who killed all those people on the Fort Hood Army bas in the US is a prime example. I must be honest when I say that when I suffered from depression, I never ever felt like killing myself but I often thought about exacting revenge on those who had hurt me. In fact I almost did an OJ Simpson on my ex while she was going to school in LA after she had betrayed me. I waited in the early hours of the morning out of her Melrose Place like apartment in LA stalking her and feeling very homicidal. I was lucky though. Not only did she show up that night, all of a sudden it was like something clicked in my head and my sanity came back and a voice in my head asked me what the Hell did I think I was doing. Wake the fuck up and grow up. Are you willing to fry for your hurt feelings and ego. This was two months before OJ did his thing and when he did, I got this cold chill in my body like I had been there and that I knew exactly how he felt. But unlike OJ, my morality and common sense kicked in. Or maybe it was God’s intervention, I honestly don’t know, but trust me, I still get spooked by that incident in my life. I am not ashamed to talk about it as I am actually very proud of how everything turned out.
The reason I bring it up though is that depression can be very dangerous to more than those who are depressed. And even today, I have no like or respect for OJ Simpson but I do have an ounce of sympathy for him because I honestly and sincerely know how he felt the night he performed those terrible crimes. There truly is a fine line between sanity and insanity.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:59
@Grognard: I think more heads for specialized functions will make them more efficient because they concentrate on specific areas of the pitch. Instead of one man running around and having to observe everything. (The NFL has the replay, but they also have half a dozen referees and line-judges. Sam with baseball.) Having just one ref on the pitch is too much pressure for one human being.
I think errors can be drastically reduced if we have people for specific tasks. This way the few errors that are in fact made by the refs can be challenged by the manager using technology. The reason I don’t advocate everything being solely done based on video replay is because it will drastically slow the game down. I want it used for cases like penalty decisions, for instance, where players anyway waste time arguing with the ref, or direct free kicks within certain striking range. Or red cards perhaps. Really BIG game altering decisions.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:04
@Jay wire: You can google Giggs boo boys, but you can’t find similar instances for Nani, and Saha. I’m sorry, but you are the only person I’ve heard this from. I know there is a bigger point you are trying to make regarding booing and criticism of players, but I have to say, I hit dead ends when I try to search for instances of our fans booing Nani or Saha. There have been groans, like Stephen said, but I haven’t heard nor read reports of booing.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:07
@Grognard: Of course, the Lyon system as well as the Brian Clough-Peter Taylor system worked because they have people with a gift that cannot be trained — to spot talent no one else have spotted. Of course, Lyon have this teamwork situation where more knowledgeable people sit and debate and arrive at a consensus. But it still calls for the presence of gifted individuals with a terrific eye for talent. Lyon seem to be blessed in that regard. Also, they bank on French speaking African countries which is a reservoir of fantastic talent and bring them through their system. Just like they did with Essien, Diarra for example. (Of course, Essien is from Ghana which is English speaking)
November 12th, 2009 at 3:48
@Red Ranter: Of course the perfect system would be an owner who would consult the Grognard on every decision to made regarding a club. Better yet, just hire Grognard and put him in charge of the day to day operation of the club. Maybe some football executive reading this might be bold enough and of course wise enough to say yes, Groggy’s the way top go. In that case, better be nice to me. I reward my friends job opps.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:50
@Red Ranter: Clough and Taylor. Man that relationship bordered on gay did it not? Those two had great success and were co dependent on each other. It was kind of creepy. By the way, if you haven’t seen “The Damned United” do so. Good film.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:59
@Grognard: I wanted to read the book first. I ordered it a couple of days ago it’s on its way.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:43
@Red Ranter: Yep, and not just 2 heads being better than one, but the concept of having a broader view of each situation will go a long way to satisfy the frustrations of players and managers.
In Rugby, for example, they implemented the video replay and at the same time they cracked down, harshly on player violations and decent.
In a way it worked because the system and it’s new checks and balances were deemed fair by both sides. It allowed the refs the power they wanted, and the teams a sense of fairness with the decisions they made,
It could be the same in Football, and for the same reasons.
The refs, will not get respect until their ability to make better judgements is realized, and the teams (managers & players) will not better their behavior until a better justice system is implemented.
One is conducive with the other, and until the negotiating parties realize this, the impasse will remain.
With reasonable give and take, it will be possible to hold the refs feet to the fire, and also hold managers and players responsible for their outbursts. As it stands right now there is really no fair way to judge the right ane wrong in all this!!
November 12th, 2009 at 5:52
@Grognard: I agree mate. I mean Doctor’s timely intervention and the will power of the person are the most important things that can support person out of depression. Along with that I think its important how your family and close friends act and help you. I mean they should tender at the same time they should be realistic enough and should not loose there own rationality while dealing with depressed person.
I mean I still remember the time when my Ex GF left me. I mean I won’t say that I lost my head or got depressed I am too strong for that but when I had a call from local police station saying that my GF has been brutally stabbed in the chest to her death. Can you imagine what might have gone through my head. It was storm that came and struck. But, I should say there were only two things along with the support from family which kept me in shape so much so that I got back to my routine within 48 hrs. And those two things were my strong will to not allow anything to affect me and Man UTD. When I use to be alone and not having anyone to talk to and all I used to get bit depressed and at that time I used to see old manchester united with strongest characters in the game (I have at least seen) like ROY and PS. It me a lot.
But, I that time I realized that no depression is that bigger than your life you can always find something that can bail you out.
Now, just like I have a great GF today (even though she is a dipper), great life and Man UTD is doing well, so those days seems long back…
BTW, basing on your recommendation I have ordered the book from Amazon.. Its on its way…..
November 12th, 2009 at 6:21
@Onkar: That’s terrible what happened to your GF. And you are so right about dealing with depression. Too bad more people aren’t as strong as you or myself for that matter. I just said to myself life’s not perfect, I’ve been given a bum hand and now I just have to learn to live with it and make the best of it. Not perfect, I still get into melancholy moods but it doesn’t take much to snap me out of it. Sometimes it’s a good movie or a great game, or just a good song or getting together with friends. Life is not perfect but from where I sit, it beats death.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:35
I should recommend the Football Ramble podcast. It’s fantastic, funny, irreverent and certainly not PC
Currently it’s number 1 in the UK in itunes. Give it a shot. Worth it.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:07
@Grognard: Its simple bro.. Finding something which more relevant, more important…. If you can do that, then it will always motivate you to live, live strong and live long….
November 12th, 2009 at 8:42
@Red Ranter: Nice site RR, thanks.
Everyone, check this out. United need to sign this chick Lambert. This is the kind of Roy Keane stuff we’ve been missing in our midfield.
I want to marry that chick.
http://www.thefootballramble.com/blog-full.asp?id=49
November 12th, 2009 at 9:18
@Red Ranter: Benzema’s father had to BEG Lyon for him to be given a run in their academies!!!
November 12th, 2009 at 9:29
@Grognard: The site is all good, but subscribe to their podcast. That’s their bread and butter, so to speak. They are all just ordinary fans talking about football, in completely non-PC way and they are pretty funny.
@NicoQB: Well then he’s the exception to the rule then. Lyon’s strategy of driving a great bargain is quite well known I’m sure. They seem to get the best out the transfer market every time. Essien, Diarra, Benzema. I’m sure they’ll then sell Toulalan and still manage to unearth someone new. For a small club to come to dominate French football completely, it’s a great story of how well run clubs can succeed and play the transfer market to its advantage. That was the point I think I was trying to get across.
November 12th, 2009 at 13:43
Jay Wire, Thanks for the advice mate but I have been going for about 11 seasons and the odd murmour is hardly booing, you need to get your facts right pal.