May 12
Old Trafford expansion just the ticket? Not a chance!
When the suits at the FA decided to build the new Wembley they probably envisaged, or at least hoped, that they would possess a stadium capable of eclipsing that of any other in the country. I imagine the conversation ran something like this: ‘Well Old Trafford stands at around 60,000, let’s make Wembley 90,000, just to be on the safe side.’
Nine years on from that time and Wembley Stadium will soon rather inevitably have to relinquish the mantle of highest capacity football venue in England, or so we are led to believe. Although it’s not gospel and is yet to be comprehensively confirmed, recent news suggests that Old Trafford will soon be extended to 95,000 seats.
Obviously this is fantastic news for supporters in terms of creating more opportunities to see United up close although is it fair to say that ticket prices will fall as a result? I beg to differ.
It is believed that Sir Alex has long lobbied the Glazer family for expansion, urging our American owners to improve the affordability of watching United in hope of attracting a new generation of supporters. Although with ticket prices set to go up even further once again next season, it’s easy to see why fans have voiced their frustrations.
So when the likely developments to the South Stand and presumably the South and East quadrants do take place, can you really foresee a drastic change in club policy?
In all honesty I can’t see why the Glazers wouldn’t want to squeeze every last penny out of us. They aren’t stupid and they know that Manchester United is a club, nay a brand, that has the potential to attract supporters from around the globe and will have little trouble filling even 95,000 seats on a regular basis. So why drop ticket prices when the market will, however begrudgingly, continue to fork out £40 odd a ticket to see the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney et al.
In 2004 the most expensive ticket at Old Trafford was £29. Four years on and that amount has risen to £49. Who knows what the price may be come 2014. A scary thought for the regular match-goer no doubt.
As much as our success on the field has provided an ideal smokescreen for the Glazers, there is no hiding the fact that the club is experiencing elevated levels of debt and that £700 million figure is rising every day.
The cost of stadium expansion will likely surpass the £100 million mark and with the need to maintain consistency on the pitch too, costs could quite worryingly spiral out of control in the future.
Who’s to say that when Sir Alex does eventually decide to call it a day we may initially struggle in a new era and spend a couple of seasons out of the Champions League? Imagine how damaging that could be for the Glazers in generating profit. Imagine the cost of a ticket then…
Related items from Red Rants:- Want to watch United beat City at Old Trafford?
- Why the Automatic Cup Ticket Scheme Stinks
- The Glazers Really Don’t Care…
- The Glazer Financial Breakdown
- From Pogba to Petrucci – United’s Reputation Is On The Line
Tags: Opinions/Columns
May 12th, 2009 at 19:03
This is a strange coincidence, I was looking in to this today on a construction forum I frequent. The biggest cost aspect of expanding the south stand, and why it is yet to be done, is the railway track that runs alongside it. We own the land the other side of it (and I believe the majority of those houses too) so having enough depth to build as high as the north stand isn’t a problem.
The problem that arises is thus. Because the train line is a Freight line, any tunnel build through the stadium would have to be specially reinforced. This is something that wouldn’t have to be done if it were a consumer line only, but due to the enormous weight that Freight trains carry, for the stadium to survive a possible collision, the tunnel would have to be mega sturdy. That incurs all sorts of costs.
Also, something would have to be done pedestrian wise to accommodate an extra 20,000 people entering the South, and mayeb those houses were bought so we could demolish them and have the extra space. Also, with a train tunnel through the stadium, surely it would make sense to have an actual station there to help ease the extra congestion, and provide a link straight to the city centre. As someone who attends matches as often as tickets become available, the area around the stadium is rammed before and after matches, buses are largely put on hold that go within 5 mins of the stadium, and there is a very infrequent train that is always packed tight, that stops just outside the stadium on a dirt bank.
On the flipside, the price of steel is much much MUCH lower than when we bought to build the quadrants, and maybe that has bought the price of the project down to a workable cost level.
Tickets (if they mirrored the north stand tier 2) would be around the £40 mark. On 20,000 seats that’s an extra £800,000 of matchday income. In the league alone that’s an extra £15.2 million a year of gate receipts.
Sounds like a bit of a no brainer if it can be done for £100mil.
May 12th, 2009 at 19:47
This is great news. Hopefully the extra capacity will slow the climb of ticket prices, or at least result in the creation of more cheap seats. And a 95,000 seater stadium should help the atmosphere.
One thing I think we all forget when considering the clubs ridiculous debt is that the minute it become not worth it for the Glazers, there will be a line of oil billionaires clamouring to buy us no matter the price. And a bigger stadium will only help the resale value.
When would this be done? Surely not this summer?
May 12th, 2009 at 20:46
A tunnel through the stadium? I mean WOW!
May 12th, 2009 at 20:49
I’d imagine the planning application would be put in this summer, and things like clearing the space behind the stadium, digging new foundations and building the reinforced tunnel could be done through next season without affecting the club.
The smart way to do it would be to have all the preperations done by March next year, and unfortunately its unavoidable that for a few matches at the end of the season the ground would be at a leser capacity while they take bits down so that they only have to build up over the summer. This would ensure the stadium started the new season finished, and minimised disturbance.
Obviously if they could get the demolition and rebuilding work done in one close season that’d be even better.
May 12th, 2009 at 21:27
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Nothing against you steve, i just wanted to try that one out lol.
May 12th, 2009 at 21:28
@Dan: Nice one, but who is that supposed to be?
Cant figure it out…
May 12th, 2009 at 21:43
@RedDevilEddy: No one, its just a man with his head in his hands
May 12th, 2009 at 21:47
It’s the classic Captain Picard facepalm. My guess is Dan picked it up on 606?
May 12th, 2009 at 21:48
@Dan:
Looked like Rafa goaing bald when he sees us win the title this season… 
May 13th, 2009 at 2:19
The Brazilian news is reporting that United have agreed to buy another 17yo left back, Dodô. It seems a little strange with Fabio already here, but he looks like another good prospect. He comes from Corinithians (the “other” Ronaldo’s new team) where he’s been playing for their junior team, and he’s played for the Brazilian U17s.
They’re reporting €6m, with half going to Corinthians, and half to some group called “Traffic.” I’m not exactly sure what that is, but his rights are apparently shared. He’ll go to England every 3 months to train, and move for real when he turns 18.
Portuguese link: http://globoesporte.globo.com/Esportes/Noticias/Times/Corinthians/0,,MUL1123767-9862,00-CORINTHIANS+NEGOCIA+PROMESSA+DA+EQUIPE+SUB+COM+O+MANCHESTER+UNITED.html
May 13th, 2009 at 2:22
@Jim: OK… I think there is a typo in the article. It says that he will turn 18 in 2009, but then says that it will be February and he will move in the summer transfer window. So it is probably Feb and then July, 2010. One for the future, Fergie isn’t messing around!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:34
Well I am also worried about the debt and I think that the capacity should be increased ASAP. The painful fact is that without all that debts we could have spent all interest payments on improving the club and the squad. The Glazers brought us a lot of success, but we need to start decreasing that debt.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:41
OK, whats the chances of Tevez playing in the Wigan game?? Do we give him another opportunity to stick it in the back of the net, or do we just get pissy, and bench him for the rest of the season for making monkey ears at SAF?
It’s actually an interesting question because it could reveal a lot about the intentions of the player and Gill/SAF .
You could well interpret a place on the bench as a pay-back snub, or a intent to pass on their options or because he’s just not good enough to make to first team??
You now, I just wouldn’t like to hazard a guess, but seeings that we are still beating on this dead horse, I thought I’d put my boot in too!!
May 13th, 2009 at 3:46
@Jim: Do you have a link that we could understand??
May 13th, 2009 at 4:04
@Redrich: Nope, sorry. I think I mentioned everything important. The source is good; Globo is the BBC of Brazil.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:29
@Jim: The group called “Traffic”, that’s a pretty interesting name coming from S. America. Would imagine they have plenty of resources!!
May 13th, 2009 at 4:31
@Jim: Yeah, I’ve read about that a while ago. But isn’t he a center back?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:36
Here’s an English link about the Dodo transfer.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Sport/Story/STIStory_376106.html
May 13th, 2009 at 4:52
@Jim: OK, I’m seeing various google links now, all saying pretty much the same thing. He is a center back, but he is a youngster, wow!!
At €6m, he must be rated well by us. Wish him luck – that’s a pretty ballsy move for someone so tender in years.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:52
I kind of laugh at this talk about improvements and additions to Old Trafford. Personally, I find it ridiculously funny why in England great teams continue to play in old beat up hovels that are nothing more than fire traps and are border line in terms of being structurally sound. Look at America and Canada. Nearly every old park and arena has been demolished in the last 15 years and new parks have been build for football, basketball, hockey and baseball. Some have been built by the communities and many have been built by team owners or a combination of the two, but the bottom line is, they have been built. Even the New York Yankees, the most hallowed professional sports franchise in North America and arguably the world, finally said good buy to the House that Ruth Built, Yankee Stadium and have just moved into a new replica of their old haunting grounds.
Time moves on and things get old and beaten down. Who doesn’t love Old Trafford. I’ve never been there but I love it, but it needs to come down and a new park has to be built. The most famous team in the world needs to showcase itself with a brand new state of the art stadium, not an old washed up and refurbished relic. History is nice but it also can be tacky and frankly, United is not maximizing it’s financial potential with the old stadium and has basically shunned middle class folks who cannot afford the high price of tickets at OT.
The biggest and most famous team in the world needs to be playing in front of 90,000 to 100,000 fans a game. I don’t know for sure but if there were 30,000 or 40,000 extra seats in that stadium and most of them priced for the average fan, the stadium would still be full. If Barca can fill 90,000, so can United. So really, the team needs to think in bolder terms. Refurbishment is so nickel and dime. Build a brand new stadium. Christ even Liverpool is moving in that direction and Shitty have already done so. Pretty frakken sad that Shitty should have a new stadium while the true kings of Manchester, Europe and the world still play in an ancient park. It’s time to move with the times and for United to maximize their financial income with a new building. But then again, pretty difficult when a team is massively in debt.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:21
@Grognard: Go to OT, watch a game or two, and most of your questions will be answered!!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:52
@Grognard:
The second line answers the question of your first line (and pretty much the crux of your entire argument).
Funny you bring up the Nou Camp to compare with United. The fact is the Nou Camp does not fill its stadium week in week out. It’s got disgracefully low average attendences for the quality of football they play. Here are its stats for the last few seasons:
63,270 in 2008-2009
74,391 in 2007-2008
73,199 in 2005-2006
73,015 in 2004-2005
66,603 in 2003-2004
65,309 in 2002-2003
53,306 in 2001-2002.
Source: FCB’s official site and soccerbase.
United will no doubt fill it, but I thought I must bring this up to dispel the misconception lot of people tend to have on Barcelona. It may have a humungous capacity, but it doesn’t sell out everytime.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:16
@Red Ranter: Barcelona is a bigger city than Manchester, so they technically should have a bigger capacity to be able to fill, but I think sometimes in large cities, even big teams don’t have a massive hardcore following as compared to a smaller city with a big football club.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:24
@Natzca: I don’t understand your point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
May 13th, 2009 at 6:52
@Red Ranter: sorry mate, was a bit vague,
I agree with you, just trying to expand on your point.
Putting 2 and 2 together, it’d be expected for Barca to have higher attendances, but it doesn’t always work that way.
I was just trying to point out that bigger city doesn’t mean bigger crowds.
Should we expand at this point? not with all the debt we have at the moment.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:08
@Natzca: I have no idea of the financial situation, so I can’t say if we can afford an expansion without curtailing transfer spending or further bumping up ticket prices or worse, defaulting on our loans.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:48
Since we’re talking about money here,
I’ve been having a long debate with a friend who supports Arsenal, and his claim is that United have “bought” their trophies…and that Arsenal can always can claim “the moral high ground” over United when it comes to financial dealings, player development and styles of play.
I know he’s a bit sour after Arsenal’s performances lately, (can’t blame him) but there must be some commendation for Wenger to be able to stay in the top 4 with the team he has. But how far does it go in the differences between the 2 teams?
If it was the scousers or chelski, it’d be a joke of an arguement, but Arsenal, barring their performances lately, have managed well, though they seem to be leading towards becoming a feeder team if they don’t start bringing in some established quality.
Just thought I’d post here about it to see what some of you guys thought about it.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:44
@Redrich: I’m sure it has a great atmosphere and feel to it but something like that can be recreated almost to perfection. New does not mean bad. Don”t judge everything by that banana skin called New Wembley. Lets face it though, Old Wembley had to go. Nothing is built forever mate.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:46
@Natzca: I’ve always read and heard that if OT had 20,00 or 30,000 more seats or capacity for tha many more that they would have no problem filling it just from the waiting list that exists for season tickets.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:53
@Natzca: Many Arsenal fans are themselves grumbling about Wenger’s stubbornness and are begging him to sign some experience players/splash cash.
@Grognard: That is true. But if they increase capacity and increase ticket prices simultaneously (which the Glazers are bound to do) then I think there will be trouble. They are trying their best to milk the golden goose that is Manchester United, but it remains to be seen how much longer they can get away with price increases.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:59
@Red Ranter: Well is a difficult question, they are always companies which will purchase tickets for hospitality, we all like to think the recession will take it toll, but everyone who has sat near to me over the years come back every year.
Football is still a religion for a lot of people and are more happy to compromise other things in their lives to watch United play, especially with the success of the side.
Also more seats to add abd have added the atomosphere has suffered, you will always get the day trippers who never sing simply because the do not know the chants or can’t speak Engish, but who spend large amounts of money in the Megastore.
The every day fan always suffers, but to be brutally honest we always come back for more and they know it.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:32
@Grognard: America has no history, so its easy to knock things down and start again whenever they feel like it. There would be riots if they tried to knock down Old Trafford. The history that has happened inside that stadium is far more important to me than how shiney the stadium looks, and how many stupid sized HD score screens we can fit in it!
It’s the same reason new Wembley, while nice looking, is shit compared the the old beat up running track and twin towers. We won the world cup in that stadium, and they tore it down so they could sell overpriced hospitality seats. A fucking disgrace.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:20
@Grognard: Also, Barca can’t fill 90,000 their average attendance is only 71,000. So thats 19,000 seats empty. Same goes for Madrid. I can’t remember exact figures, but I’ll dig them up later. Milan don’t even sell out their home games and the San Siro isn’t that big.
We have 2 options to make more money (and thats what the Glazers are all about). 1 is sell the stadium and rent it back (I’d like to see them try, they’d be actually murdered). 2 is expand and take more money on gate receipts, improve hospitality etc.
To reach 100,000 in that ground tho will be a tricky task. Knocking down the South Stand (11,500) and rebuilding it to mirror the North’s 1st and 2nd tier (25,500) would add 14,000. And 8,000 across the 2 new quadrants would bring us up to 98,212 (approximate). Because the pitch is far enough away from the front of the stands we could drop the pitch a few meters and run a few more rows around the front of the stands, hitting the 100,000 mark. After that there isn’t many places we can squeeze more into.. Santiago Bernabéu is 80,000, and Camp nou is just under 99,000 so we should be looking to overtake them.
What I will agree on is that it looks a bit old from the outside, and that could be quite easily sorted with a lick of paint here and there, and a better roof. A flat roof instead of a sloping roof I think would bring a better atmosphere. You cant even see most of the ground from North Tier 3! The place would look MASSIVE without the sloping roofs.
Edit: Was looking around for those figures, and came across our account report from April, which states we spent £11 million buying Manchester Freight Terminal, the massive freight depot beind the Stretford End. To me this signals they definitely intend on mirroring the North Stand with the South.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:21
While I’m on a posting megastreak I’ll add this…
We’re lucky that we come under the Trafford Park planning area, because everything that has been proposed for the area has been built. They are a very open borough council when it comes to regeneration. Another interesting note to this expansion talk coming up now, is that by our structured deal for the quadrants, they would be paid off by the end of the 2010 season.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:51
@Traverse: You an architectural major mate?
Good points totally, that’s why!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:55
Coming back to today’s match, this is my expected starting line-up:
———VDS———–
O’Shea-Evans-Vidic-Evra
Park-Scholes-Carrick-Ronaldo
Tevez-Rooney
Everyone seems to be fairly confident about this match – is that a good thing or not? I think it’ll be open and hopefully we get an early goal to set us along.
On the Tevez dead horse saga, seems to be rumours that we could get him on a free transfer now? This thing goes round and round!
May 13th, 2009 at 13:19
@antsBoy: Nah I just have a lot of spare time on my hands which I spend reading and researching things of interest. Architecture is one of them. United is another. Sometimes they collide nicely
Has anyone seen this? We could sign Tevez for FREE. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2426015.ece
And as our club lawyer is Jean Louis Dupont (he of the Jean-Marc Bosman case) this would be quite something! No wonder Joorbachian is trying to get him to sign with someone else asap!
May 13th, 2009 at 13:39
@Red Ranter: I don’t know if this is a chicken/egg situation but the reason for their low attendances could be the extortionate cost of watching them live. You’re lucky to get tickets for E100. Like I said, whether this is a reaction to low attendance or the cause I have no idea.
@Grognard: There is a lot to be said for history though, and Old Trafford is hardly a dilapidated shack. Many clubs in England have built new stadiums: Arsenal, City, Derby, Wigan, Reading. Chelsea have been trying for years. As have Everton and Liverpool. Planning permission can be difficult and fan’s don;t like it though. In the US teams move CITIES so I can’t imagine a stadium change is too big a deal
.
@Traverse: Yeah I saw that on the BBC gossip thing. That would be great, although I’m always wary with the Sun…
No idea what team we’ll put out tonight (I’ve given up trying to guess these sorts of games) although I have a feeling we’ll go 442 with Rooney and Tevez up front.
May 13th, 2009 at 13:49
@Traverse: Every word of that comment is the truth. Every word. I love knowing that Old Trafford is the same ground where the Busby Babes played, where the Holy Trinity tore defences apart, even where Denis Law (sort of) doomed us to relegation with a swing of his heel. And visiting teams come to Old Trafford knowing all of this history too, knowing how difficult it is to get a result not just against Manchester United but at Old Trafford.
May 13th, 2009 at 14:06
Yes I also read the article! It sounds a strong possibility. In a global economy with free movement of players third party ownership is akin to slavery.
But if Tevez became a free agent I don’t think he’d join us because we cannot promise him regular first team action.
May 13th, 2009 at 14:52
@colver: Who can in the top four, bar maybe Arsenal who won’t go for him?
May 13th, 2009 at 15:03
Dodo???
Somehow I’m not too big on latin defenders…
I personally prefer lean, mean no-nonsense machines and would rather leacve the flair and creative aspect of the game to the latinos.
Rafael still gives me goosebumps with his positioning…
And 6 million for a no-name defender? Perhaps I’ll eat my words but this is the reason sometimes we’re stingy on 2-3 million when looking for world class players (Nani instead of Ribery comes to mind here) whereas each year we can spend around 10 million for “developing” promising youngsters….
I really hope Llajic will come good as right now our I’m not sure our youth scouts are totally justifying there wage bill…
May 13th, 2009 at 15:08
Looks like they are building our future defence…
Rafael Sakho Dodo Fabio
All under 20! Sakho is a real god buy if we’ve got him too. I do wonder where our next strong spine of English players are coming from tho (other than Everton’s youth system with Rodwell etc)…
May 13th, 2009 at 15:13
@Traverse: Welbeck, Martin, C Evans, Reece Brown and the lad I am really excited about Ravel Morrison.
May 13th, 2009 at 15:20
Obviously Corry is Irish, forgot you said English, sorry.
May 13th, 2009 at 16:12
@Stephen: I agree. For defensive sturdiness I’d much rather go for our own youth graduates.
Corry Evans is apparently as talented as his older bro.
May 13th, 2009 at 16:14
@Stephen: Ra’vel morrison will be a star, im sure of it. He’ll break through in a season or 2, but if he were to break into the first team earlier then that, it wouldnt surprise me.
1 step at the time though, he needs to get into the reserve team first.
May 13th, 2009 at 16:15
@Dan: He is off the hook mate I must say.
May 13th, 2009 at 16:49
So, yeah we do have a game with Wigan today! That if we when, will put us very much on the brink of a 3rd successive title! Where’s the banter? We could very easily have dropped points there on the last game last year, and they’re still a tough place to go. With Valencia they have a quality winger, and Mido has hurt us before.
Just want to make sure we’re not so complacent will slip up in this game!
May 13th, 2009 at 17:15
@michael: Although I have never been there, nobody is going to convince me that it isn’t anything but an old lady with a thousands of pounds in face lifts and other cosmetic surgeries. Still, under the facade, it is an ancient building and only so much can be done to it. In this day and age it seems rather embarrassing that a big prestigious sports franchise famous throughout the world cannot afford to move into a new building. Instead they play in an old building that doesn’t maximize the team’s financial possibilities and doesn’t permit the admittance of a larger more evenly selected and financially diverse cross section of people to attend games. Instead it has become an old club for select members with strong financial status.
May 13th, 2009 at 17:45
@Dan: thats if he’s out of jail by then
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/03/man-utd-boy-star-gun-bust-115875-21328227/
May 13th, 2009 at 18:15
@Grognard: I think it’s far more embarrassing that a sports ‘franchise’ is willing to drop it’s history for a quick buck like a cheap whore.
On a footballing matter, did anyone see that Tosic scored the winning goal (a 20yd Freekick) in the Manchester Senior Cup Final last night? Good stuff!
May 13th, 2009 at 18:20
Also it’s this history that sets us apart from new money like Man City and Chelsea.
May 13th, 2009 at 18:23
@Grognard: Ever heard of the saying that old is gold. Question: How Old is the Vatican? How many buildings in the world do you know that are better than it? True OT is old as its name suggests “Old Trafford” but it’s still miles way better than many of the new stadia. Apart from the fantastic services offered at the Emirates and the heating system, stadium wise no thing else they have that beats whats at OT.
May 13th, 2009 at 18:40
@Traverse: yup, just found the link to Tosic’s goal
May 13th, 2009 at 19:05
if the fab 4 dont start all together, im changing my name to “Dan, a stupid cock who wanks over kuyt pictures”
May 13th, 2009 at 19:14
@Dan: Tevez is on the bench, so you better start typing
May 13th, 2009 at 19:16
TEAM NEWS
VDS
O’Shea Evans Vidic Evra
Scholes Carrick
Ronaldo Anderson Rooney
Bebatov
May 13th, 2009 at 19:20
@Dan, a stupid cock who wanks over kuyt pictures: Unlucky
Also, Wigan are playing their reserve keeper Kingson, who is a chump! United 5 – 0 Wigan! Come on!
May 13th, 2009 at 19:31
@Traverse: We’re in to win it! Let’s give Wigan a whipping, and send out a clear message to Liverpool that there’s only one team of champions in the Premier League! This would also be a fantastic opportunity to close up the goal difference gap, which will have no bearing on the title, but it really frustrates me to see that Liverpool are statistically more potent than us!!
Prediction: United 4-0 Wigan.
May 13th, 2009 at 19:48
That’s it. I don’t think I’ve ever said it before, at least not this year. Anderson will score tonight. Finally friggin-ly.
I hope Fergie has us fired up. We should be aiming for the win, and if we can get a lead, catch up on goal diff to the dippers. Can see them scoring, particularly with no Rio, but hopefully we’ll have plenty of firepower in that lineup.
Bit worried bout the Scholes/Carrick pairing. Has shown to lack bite many times in the past, in fact I feel like we’ve lost more games with those two in there than any other combo. Anyway, in Fergie we trust. Against Arsenal I berated the Park decision…look how that went!
May 13th, 2009 at 19:49
anyone know a good link to watch the man utd game please
May 13th, 2009 at 19:51
COME ON UNITED!
May 13th, 2009 at 19:54
channel 6816 on sopcast
May 13th, 2009 at 19:55
@Traverse: wow ando in the hole bring it
May 13th, 2009 at 19:57
@ebrahim: yes
May 13th, 2009 at 19:58
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Wigan-Athletic—Manchester-United
May 13th, 2009 at 19:59
C’mon United! Let’s get our 18th tonight!!!!*
*well as close as you like anyway…
May 13th, 2009 at 20:03
EVDS Captain, NICE!
Sorry Kinson my countryman, but I hope you lose.
May 13th, 2009 at 20:05
WTF!
May 13th, 2009 at 20:14
what the fucking hell!?!?! Rooney!
May 13th, 2009 at 20:16
Shocking miss by rooney… nice touches by berbatov around the box
May 13th, 2009 at 20:21
Can’t really disagree too much with giving the armband to VDS, but at what point will it be Rooney’s? He’s clearly the leader out there!
May 13th, 2009 at 20:33
from behind thats a foul
May 13th, 2009 at 20:33
oh my fucking god.
May 13th, 2009 at 20:39
How are we playing, other than obviously conceeding? Not good for my nerves this…no way to watch just following the texts…
May 13th, 2009 at 20:40
wow their pitch is in great shape
May 13th, 2009 at 20:42
get this fag off the pitch
May 13th, 2009 at 20:43
get the fuck up tracy chatman
May 13th, 2009 at 20:46
fuck the ref
May 13th, 2009 at 20:48
they are kicking the shit out of our players shins
May 13th, 2009 at 20:49
ando has been shit when he is visible at all and im a big ando fan but put teves in
May 13th, 2009 at 20:53
Wigan is very physical and their pitch is soaked and slippery killing our passing and runs.
@gator: Yes, Ando is poor – at left back. Gimme a break. Put in Park and Tevez for Scholes and Ando – lets do Tottenham game again
May 13th, 2009 at 20:54
Yeah, this does not look good at all. We need a change in formation me thinks. Bring off Ando, put Tevez in. Or Giggs in. We need a major 2nd half performance now, this looks very tough.
May 13th, 2009 at 20:55
his game is just not flowing now, which is our only chance…against tottenham it was doable – it was OT, a glorious day, and the pitch was playing were..not happening…and well missing the chances that we have (rooney twice) this is going to take a minor miracle – a miracle larger than the one against tottenham I think..
May 13th, 2009 at 20:56
Thoughts at halftime: We’ve been decent, although we’ve failed to deal with the rain properly, losing the ball frequently. I’d take off Scholes and Anderson for Giggs and Park, or maybe Giggs and Tevez.
Considering the rain we need to shoot more. Berbatov, as ever, needs to get forward more, although when he has in this game the service has been poor. Carrick and Rooney should have scored but fair play to Wigan really. Valencia is playing really well, MOTM so far.
Difficult game to evaluate because of the rain making everyone look like idiots.
May 13th, 2009 at 20:59
- Somehow it doesnt surprise me anymore when each match 2 or 3 offsides are blown agaisnt us, when they are clearly level.
- Ronaldo has been invisible in the first 20min.
- This is not a football pitch. Its an ice skating rink.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:02
not dificult to evaluate at all. Rooney has mised 1.5 sitters and carrick missed a great chance. having said that Valencia missed one early on, so the score could easily be 2-2 or 3-2. Vidic and Evans are gaving a tough time, once again we see the value of Rio. Vidic and Ro are good defendrs by themselves, but together they are great.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:02
not dificult to evaluate at all. Rooney has mised 1.5 sitters and carrick missed a great chance. having said that Valencia missed one early on, so the score could easily be 2-2 or 3-2. Vidic and Evans are gaving a tough time, once again we see the value of Rio. Vidic and Ro are good defendrs by themselves, but together they are great.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:04
Oh and Evans completely missed his footings at least 2 times, leading to great opportunities for wigan.
We’ve been unlucky not to score considering the three or four clear cut opportunities. Hope the boys keep their calm, but shift into third or fourth gear.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:04
Come on United. At least a draw today, so we can wrap it up Saturday. A loss would make us go to the last day, and I really, really don’t want to be in that position!
Pull your finger out boys. Get Tevez on…
May 13th, 2009 at 21:06
sorry for the double post.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:06
ando is normaly great when teams are playing very close and physical maby give him a couple min in the second but tev for scholes cuz he just looks lost out there. i thought gingers were allergic to sun not rain.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:07
evryone is getting 2 inch studs at the half
May 13th, 2009 at 21:08
@johnsom33: Rooney scored early on – a great chip too – to be unjustly thwarted by a poor linesman…
May 13th, 2009 at 21:08
@Beachryan: I agree with you, I don’t want to watch Hull the day after I go to Turkey on the 23th, I’d rather we wrapped it all up with three points on Saturday and 1 or 3 today…
May 13th, 2009 at 21:10
i think the ref likes to see our players haried and wigan are obliged
May 13th, 2009 at 21:17
tevez for scholes please
May 13th, 2009 at 21:18
pen fuck the ref
May 13th, 2009 at 21:20
fuck me get scholes off ando was finaly making some plays
May 13th, 2009 at 21:21
We’ve been much worse since halftime
May 13th, 2009 at 21:23
fuckin hell!!!
Tevez!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:23
Tevez has tiny little arms! Huge shoulders and skinny stick arms
Great finish! Andy Gray is right with “if you can’t be good, be lucky” though…
May 13th, 2009 at 21:23
good for the lad
May 13th, 2009 at 21:24
wow
May 13th, 2009 at 21:26
Fergie sign him up!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:26
see what happens fergie when you play all 4 together?
May 13th, 2009 at 21:28
Sign him UP!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:28
Sign him the fuck up!
COM ON UNITED!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:30
Goddamn constipated refs!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:36
thats a pen he never even came close to the ball just nudged him off the ball
May 13th, 2009 at 21:37
oldy for oldy
May 13th, 2009 at 21:48
what a goal!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:49
OH MY FUCKING YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS!
CARRICK YOU LOVELY BEAUTY!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:50
sweet fucking strike!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 21:57
silverwares a comin home
May 13th, 2009 at 21:58
Congrats boys – just as important a win as any this season. Couldn’t watch but thanks for the bits o commentary on here.
1 point from Arsenal or Hull to wrap it up…
May 13th, 2009 at 21:58
Great game, really engrossing. Shows why perhaps we should start all four against the smaller teams more often.
Credit to Wigan (especially Valencia), and to Rob Styles, I thought he had a great game.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:58
wow, 1 more point. we were wayyyyyyy to wasteful in front of goal today, and we almost paid for it.
May 13th, 2009 at 21:59
Thank you Carlos Tevez, changed the game. Carrick played brilliantly after Tevez came on too, a goal and an assist
May 13th, 2009 at 21:59
Carrick: goal and assist
May 13th, 2009 at 22:02
liverfools read it and weep
May 13th, 2009 at 22:03
Oh fucking yes. Thank you Tevez, Carrick and God. Lets finish the job at OT!
Night everyone!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:04
I can’t believe you lot
, great game 
. Berbatov, Rooney and Ronnie were SHITE personified tonight. The only great things were the goals and THE GREAT RESULT 
. The rest mostly unmemorable! By Fergie’s screaming and arm waving antics of frustration, I think he agreed 
.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:04
fuck me i just realized that the arse game is at 6:45am in NW florida.
i think ill do better to stay up till then than get up earley?
May 13th, 2009 at 22:05
friggin grit today, we like doin
it hard against the smaller teams eh?
but how about tevez’s goal? replays showed the skill in flicking off his back heel!! a bit of class I didn’t know the fella had!
changing those studs mad a massive difference in the second half, no where near as many slips on the field, and we were able to take control of the game…dissapointing we didn’t finish more of our shots though, ronaldo n rooney will be kicking themselves at the wasted chances.
but all that matters now is… we’re 1pt away from the trophy!!!!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:06
@gator: had to wake up at 5am this morn to watch this Wigan game
May 13th, 2009 at 22:07
More good news, according to Sky, we ARE negotiating terms with MSI (whatever they are called) about Tevez.
(It was on the pre-match discussion)
May 13th, 2009 at 22:07
@gator: it’s at the same time in MN; probably earlier where grog is. i’m planning on waking up early.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:15
@gator: I’m in Michigan. Well, 6:45 AM it is… it is worth it. I am so excited… damn Red Devil Eddie got tickets – lucky kid!
When I become rich – gimme 6 years – first thing on my list is 2 weeks in Manchester/London to watch at least 2 united games and a CL game then going to World Cup in Brazil 2014!!!! Wooo!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:16
West Brom gonna beat Liverpool 3-2
May 13th, 2009 at 22:25
Check out this from BBC:
Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson: “Carlos Tevez knows we want him to stay, I’ve had a chat with him today – it’s never changed. But the fact that we’re not negotiating with a football club is a problem.”
Take that Jia Jackoffcobian!
PS: Why is Tevez a problem when Dodö and Traffic is not??
May 13th, 2009 at 22:26
WE SHALL NOT , WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:27
Note to Tevez: Do your talking in the pitch, mate. Had you played all season like you did for the last two games, your contract negotiation would have long been settled.
Que Sera sera!!! We’re going to win the league!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:31
@Madschester United: I don’t think Traffic wants a total of 32 million pounds for dodo, mate.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:33
@Craig Mc: We didn’t play fantastically, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a great game
May 13th, 2009 at 22:34
Que Sera Sera
Whatever will be will be
Is for us to see…. Champione champione, ole ole ole!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:34
What does this remind you of?! CHAMPIONS!!!
One of the truly great comebacks, not in terms of performance, but in terms of result and character! And who said we dont have any spirit coming back from the dead this season?! 3-2 Villa, 5-2 Spurs, 2-1 Wigan. Thats the true spirit of Champions! Im not saying we are already, but there will need some real hell to rise upon us for us to lose it now. Hopefully we beat Arsenal, so we can lift the trophy at Old Trafford again- With me in the crowd. 
Brilliant goal by Tevez, and Carrick it must be said. But Tevez goal was one of the goals of the season, my God was that a beauty. When you consider the pitch, the power, the balance and the distance in which the heel-flick came from it was a real peach! Holy Fuck, Carlito, why cant you do that more often?! Then you wouldnt have to bitch about absolutely everything in the papers, those things are what make you count! Now lets finish it in style against Arsenal, lets win the title and equal Liverpool history. Then they will be crying all summer…
May 13th, 2009 at 22:35
@NicoQB: obviously… but scaling: 22 mill (10 paid already) for Tevez a top world-class striker or 6 mill for a young young CB ~ even.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:35
@Madschester United: Hihi, its gonna be sweet!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:38
@bildani: I consider you lucky… I have to wake up at 4:45 AM on Saturday. CT and ET is much better than MST. I suppose Grognard will wake up at the same time or even earlier.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:38
Apparantley Tevez will be a bosman this summer… Arent bosmans able to sign for whichever club they want for a very little amount of money? So why isnt it possible that Fergie hasnt signed Tevez yet, because right now he is currently a West Ham player? And when he becomes a bosman Fergie can get him nearly free? Its possible, innit?!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:38
@Madschester United: Cause Joorbachian is quite clearly a scumbag.
Also, GET THE FUCK IN!
that is all
May 13th, 2009 at 22:41
@RedDevilEddy: so envious that you get to see the game live on saturday! hopefully we can lift the trophy then as well!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:43
@RedDevilEddy: Soak up some of the atmosphere and occasion for the rest of us, will you? You’ll be seeing the lads doing a victory lap!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:44
@bildani: I havent got the best of seeats, Im sitting nearly at the highest possible point of the stadium. But its really gonna be awsome!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:44
@RedDevilEddy: The Bosman ruling is that when a players contract is up, he becomes a free agent. Third party agreements, like the one Tevez has with MSI, are not recognised by EU Employment Law. And if you ask me, they Mr Blatter are tantamount to slavery. When Tevez’s loan agreement with us is over, by EU law he is a free agent. Obviously MSI would then sue us. And fail, because by EU Law they aren’t valid. It’s whether Tevez is willing to go into Joorbachian and tell him where to stick it….
May 13th, 2009 at 22:45
@TurkishRED: I know!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:46
@Traverse: No doubt about Doochbagian!
Does liverpool own Mascherano straight up?
May 13th, 2009 at 22:47
@Madschester United: I do have also a problem with signing an unknown centre back for 6 million. I commented on it earlier… Youngsters are nowadays an unkown commodity. There’s every risk that they’ll not make the grade. Or rather that they will make the grade, but end up being not good enough for United…
Only when the youngster’s talent is one in a million (or can be obtained quite cheaply) should we splash the cash.
Thus I’d rather us keeping the big bucks for confirmed playeers, like Ribery or (on current form) tevez.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:49
@NicoQB: What about letting go of Tevez and switching Ronaldo to striker role and then bring in Ribery as wingman— nah, just me crazy-talkting
Ok, im out. Gotta study! See you saturday!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:50
@RedDevilEddy: Ad nauseam! Ad infinitum!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:51
@RedDevilEddy: Good Grief Bro, make sure you take your binoculars with you
. Otherwise all you will be looking at is the birds flying overhead 
.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:52
Didja see that?
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wtf/
May 13th, 2009 at 22:54
@Craig Mc: I wont be taking my binoculars, but I will bring my camera. I think it can videotape… If it can, I will upload it to my Youtube channel so you all can see how sweet it is.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:55
@NicoQB: THAT! IS! JUST! “Get me the tank!!!”
May 13th, 2009 at 22:55
@michael: It wasn’t a GREAT game Bro, I mean come on
. It was a GREAT RESULT though 
.
May 13th, 2009 at 22:57
@NicoQB: lol, completely agree with the title of it!
May 13th, 2009 at 22:58
@TurkishRED:
May 13th, 2009 at 23:03
@TurkishRED: What?
May 13th, 2009 at 23:11
Do you think its too late for Evans?
May 13th, 2009 at 23:22
@Craig Mc: I guess. I enjoyed every minute of it, though. Perhaps I play too fast and loose with the word great
May 13th, 2009 at 23:25
@RedDevilEddy: Ahh, the tank!!!
Love it how Ronnie looks in disbelief and kinda check his own after!
May 13th, 2009 at 23:31
I really want to get to the bottom of this Tevez and bosman thing. Im no lawyer and Im especially not a EU lawyer, but from the sound of it, I see Tevez as a free man this summer.
This summer, say Tevez wants to sign for United at “x” amount of dollars can MSI block him signing with us? if so that would mean they own him, which last time I checked was abolished years ago. It would be one thing if he was a recording artist signed to a record label. But he is a fotballer and he needs a football club. MSI arent a registered club with FIFA so I dont see how they have any jurisdiction in saying where he is to go.
someone please straighten this out, Cause I really dont have the slightest clue.
May 14th, 2009 at 0:27
Grog,
Are you watching the penguin capital game right now?
May 14th, 2009 at 0:48
@Johnsom33: Yes I am. Glad to see Pittsburgh up because I hate Washington and that Ronaldo-like arrogant prick Ovetchkin.
May 14th, 2009 at 0:52
@Jay Jay: Come on mate, you cannot compare the Vatican which is treated like a can’t touch museum and a stadium that suffers from weight stress from thousands of people and also from just plain wear and tear from the elements and people who don’t treat it like the cherished palace you think it is. The Acropolis and the Colosseum were the OT’s of their day and look at them now. All things myst go. I love history as much as anyone but it’s players and people that make history, not buildings and furniture. Out with the old and in with the new. But when they build anew one, it must have the feel and look of OT for obvious reasons.
May 14th, 2009 at 0:54
@Dan: Could you change it to that even if they don’t start?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:11
@Craig Mc: OK I am going to back up my Bro Craig here and agree with him that United were absolute total shite tonight. But like true champions, they did enough to win and found a way to get the three points.
Craig you are so right except for one man. I thought Berbatov was very good tonight. I am just sick and tired of the lack of understanding around him. And lets face it, when you cross the ball with the precision of Nani right on to the Roon’s head where he has an absolute sitter but heads it wide, can you blame Berba for that? He was sublime tonight with his control and vision but nobody else was on the same page or worth shite.
I have to go back a long time to remember the last time both Ronaldo and Rooney were such total pathetic tossers. They were horrible and rooney really looked tired. He lacked that extra gear and his fatigue was also mental because he made so many poor decisions and passes tonight it was laughable. Forget Ronaldo, he just took the night off and pouted. Anderson was absolute garbage. I’ve noticed with this guy that the only time he plays well is when the game is very up tempo, like against Arsenal. When is more controlled and tempered he sucks monkey chunks.
What I did like was Michael Carrick. He mishit a number of shots tonight having missed a sitter and shanked a few including the Tevez goal, but I was impressed in his willingness to attack and enter the box. Tonight he played that box to box AMF role that I have waited for so long to see. That’s what I want and lets face it, he had a part in both goals and struck a beauty for the winner.
Special kudos to Mr. Carlos Tevez. Enough already, sign the little bugger up. I think he has made his point. What a great world class goal he scored to night. That’s creativity and imagination that just makes the Grognard all wet and tingly. Fantastic stuff. Sign up. He has heart passion and professionalism. He played great on Sunday only to be benched yet again tonight. But did that deter him or make him sulk and retreat to his baby crib like Ronaldo? No way. Instead he came in and saved our bacon. I don’t care if Berba is better or not, I want Carlito to stay. I have fallen in love with Carlito and his clutch play as well as his professional attitude.
As for the rest, pretty fucking poor. Evra stunk, especially on offense. That guy has no idea sometimes what the hell he is doing. Evans was poor getting caught numerous times with some bonehead touches. Vidic had a poor game having to cover for Evans. I guess that speaks volumes over the value of one Rio Ferdinand. O’Shea was very good as usual and EVDS had very little to do.
Wigan was poor and really should have been beaten badly had it not been for our poor finishing. I don’t care how bad our finishing is as long a s we get one more point and then everything comes together vs Barcelona.
So one point to go and then a well deserved rest for the big boys as we await Rome.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:18
@johnsom33: MSI own him. Third party ownership isn’t outlawed by FIFA last I checked. It is quite common in South America. It is banned by the premiership where Tevez and Mascherano were the last in line of players owned by third parties. Mascherano became property of Liverpool once they paid his worth at the time — which was about £18m — whilst Tevez was on a loan deal whereby if United were to buy him at the end of the deal, he would no longer be owned by MSI. As it stands MSI own him, which means he has to be bought for a fee from them.
I don’t know how the lawyers plan to spin this though. So we’ll have to wait and watch.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:35
@Red Ranter: so let me get this straight. Tevez has to play for whoever MSI wants him to? I just dont see how this is legal. I understand in S.America that clubs cant afford top players so third parties come in and and help finance the purchase. I just dont understand how that 3rd party still has a relatonship with the player after he leaves the orginal club.
Did Tevez sign a permanent deal? How is MSI different than a football club? Once Ballacks deal with Bayern was up, he was allowed to go wherever he pleased. Bayern didnt hold him for ransom because they owned his “econmic rights”.
I guess we will all get to the bottom of this soon enough.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:41
@Grognard: I agree with you about Berba, he was far from shite today. His turn and cross to rooney was unbelivable, he really does have deceptive speed. Im still trying to figure out how rooney contrived to miss the header so badly.
I also agree about Rio, many words are wasted when people debate about who is better of the 2. the fact is, it doesnt really matter because together they are far greater the sum of their parts(a cheesy cliche I know).
The hockey game was a blow out, Kind of a let down because I havent watched a hocky game in over 10 years. I only watched this one because it was getting hyped beyond reason over here. I saw enough thi, and I am looking foward to watching the Red Wing game.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:50
I was listening to the World Soccer Daily podcast the other day and they were saying that they heard from an “unnamed source inside OT” that after the Man City game Ronaldo and Fergie had a hige bust up and that ROnaldo will be sold in the summer with out question.
I dont know why I continue to get mad at all these unnamed source stories, but they really get on my tits. I cant see any other team than Madrid being able to afford Ronaldo, and I just cant see Madrid as a team that are ready for a player like ronaldo.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:05
@johnsom33: Ballack was allowed to leave because his contract had run down its length and they owned him till the point his contract was up.
MSI own Tevez for an indefinite length of time. We don’t know when his contract for MSI ends. If it ends today, Tevez could be got on a free. But it doesn’t, which is why Kia is hawking him around town for the value.
Assume MSI is a football club that owns Tevez for an indefinite length of time. This scenario is illegal in the Premiership because when a player plays for a club, either he’s owned by that club, or by the club that loaned him (if he’s a loanee) — a third party like MSI can’t own him. But the Premier League, being run by impeccable individuals, screwed up by letting this transfer (to West Ham) happen in the first place. Which is why Tevez to United, the loan deal, is a last. And the league has enforced firm checks by demanding documents to every transfer that takes place between clubs since then, which makes third party ownership of this kind impossible.
But for now, I don’t know what case the lawyer has, nor do I know the nitty-gritties of the contract, but, as I understand this, United had a contract with MSI whereby they take Tevez on loan for two years (for £10m) and then get the first option to purchase him for a specific fee. I am not sure if this fee was pre decided as the reported £22m or if it was meant to be his ‘market value’ at the time of permanent purchase — following which, United will own him.
In my opinion, based on the facts in front of me, if this was the deal in the contract, I don’t see how they can get him without paying some fee.
But then, there’s a reason I’m not a lawyer. I’m not great at reading documents and spinning it to my benefit.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:07
@johnsom33: World Soccer Daily is a show that used to be good but that I find to be more and more annoying and filled with bad guests and hosted by morons who will believe anything that is reported out of London. They are tossers.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:10
@johnsom33: I hardly ever watch hockey anymore either as the game has become too technical and too utilitarian for it’s own good. But I had to watch Sid the Kid get the better of Ovetchkin. It was my Canadian pride crying to get out.
Glad Pittsburgh won. Now as long as Boston win too, then I am guaranteed to see either one of my two favorite teams in the final. 
May 14th, 2009 at 3:38
@Grognard: You must listen to the Guardian podcast. It’s classy. James Richardson’s delightful puns, Barry Glendenning’s cynicism, Sid Lowe’s Spanish insight and Sean Ingle for being Sean Ingle and popularising the ‘Crouchie’s having his nachos’ phrase; all make for an excellent podcast.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:51
@johnsom33: Hallelujah!!!
You have seen the Berba light!!! 
He played well in the first half, though to be fair, I thought he faded in the second. I just hope he scores a good goal soon, too, it would be good for his confidence.
Abiout Rio – its funny, as right now, as a player, Vidic seems to be the better defender, yet I’m pretty sure any centre back pairing would always perform better with Rio playing. Its just that for centre backs, the set of skills that Rio possesses is that much rarer than those of Vidic; however good the Serb is.
As for Ronaldo going to Real, I would looovvvve it if he went there and has to bow down to King Raul, like basically every other player has to. I’m not sure it would be the case, but I’d love him to play second fiddle in the team to another player. Really put down his ego, and know that he is already regretting his OT days – in any case that is bound to happen, as I’ve yet to recall one great player who left OT an went on not to regret the move (Beckham, Stam, Kanchelskis, RVN, and the list goes on and on…oh except maybe Mcgrath…) .
May 14th, 2009 at 4:14
@Red Ranter: I agree about the guardian podcast, there is a reason it is so popular. I will admit that Glendenning does get annoying at times, because he is so predictable. I know what he is gonna say before he opens his mouth. Because everything he says is so negative, I cant remember the last time he actually said something constructive… posiitive or negative.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:20
@NicoQB: Contrary to popular I am not a Berba hater, I just dont cream my pants when he plucks the ball out of the sky once a game. The move he made to send in the cross to Rooney today was far better than the play against shitty where he passed to Tevez.
When it comes to contrlling the ball like that Berba is second to none, I just dont think that trai makes him a great striker. If you go back thru my post you would see that I have always maintained that Berba is World Class, I just think that he doesnt really fit with this team.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:44
@johnsom33: I can take his negativity. You’ll feel his loss when he isn’t in an episode. He’s the one that said this:
“You’d think anyone with a passing interest in sport would know that the most reliable, bullshit-free place to find out the likelihood of something happening is to check the odds on a betting website.“
I think in the world of journalists that tow the line with a lot of PC-ness, he’s a breath of fresh air.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:38
@Red Ranter: I’ll give it a try. I already watch Football Matters a lot with James Richardson, so I feel like I already have a feel for the show due to his style and humor. Thanks.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:53
Does anybody have any links to yesterdays goals? China has temporarily banned Youtube, among other things…
May 14th, 2009 at 7:26
good win last night. I can see us getting a draw on saturday.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:32
@Babyface: Highlights here: http://footycast.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=59&task=videodirectlink&id=330
May 14th, 2009 at 8:33
@Dan, a stupid cock who wanks over kuyt pictures: I can see us winning.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:36
Im behind on games, working hella hard and got the Wigan game on my video recorder waiting to watch!
Was browsing the BBC site. Apparentely we are linked to a Brazilian defender called “Dodo”. Anyone heard of him?
May 14th, 2009 at 9:43
@johnsom33: ” I just think that he doesnt really fit with this team.”
And Ibrahimovic would?
May 14th, 2009 at 11:15
@colver: Looks like we aren’t going to sign him cause he’s extinct.
The news is we are making a £20million bid for Valencia. Surely Nani isn’t that bad that we would let Tevez go but spent the same money on someone just as unproven!
May 14th, 2009 at 11:33
@Traverse: Why buy Valenia, and not play Nani who probably is better, just sign Carlos try and neg the deal to a lower amount and that is all the business we need to do this summer.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:06
Arsenal are demoralised after we thumped them over two legs. So I anticipate they’ll be quite happy to settle for a draw and won’t have the balls to attack us in case they get ripped apart again.
That would give us the luxury of giving some reserve players a walk out for the Hull game and keeping our top players fresh for the Barca final.
Valencia for 20 million is ridiculous. He is worth £12 million tops. He’d be a good squad player but not really first team material.
Given a choice between spending £20 million on Tevez and £20 million on Valencia Tevez would be a no-brainer. He’s shown recently that he still has quality Fergie just needs to do a better job of man-managing him and ensuring he gets enough games to stay sharp.
But why spend £20 million on either when we can try to sign Ribery for £35 million perhaps selling Nani to raise some cash? Barring that I fancy Silva for £20 million. He’d give us a bit more finesse and skill in midfield.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:14
This would be actually the best team ever. EVER!
VDS
Brown Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Carrick Hargreaves
Ronaldo Rooney Ribery
Berbatov
Bench : Foster, Raphael, Evans, Scholes, Fletcher, Park, Tevez
May 14th, 2009 at 13:27
@Traverse: Ribery is a good player, but for £30m really we could Carlos or Wazza out there. We also have Tosic who scored a blinder against Bolton why do we need anyone else IF Carlos stays?
May 14th, 2009 at 13:38
@Stephen: I know I’m playing fantasy football a bit there, but if we had a proper wide left player, we all know Rooney is most effective behind the main striker. He does a job out left because he’s that damn good. Rooney can’t really attack dfenders like Ribery or Ronaldo can on a consistent basis, and he’s got such good vision that picking out the passes from the middle of the park would be awesome.
Also, Carrick and Hargreaves sitting would be a brilliant combination due to Hargreaves industry, Carrick’s passing, and the fact they can both crack a shot off.
Berbatov or Tevez up top is fine. Diff’rent strokes and all that.
Also, just heard from Talksport’s man in South America that Dodo is a defender who has all the skill of a Brazilian, but very much the physique of a European central defender. He’s a big lad apparently. He’ll spend a couple of months here, a couple in Brazil, a couple here and a couple in Brazil until he’s bedded in and all that. No work permit / age issues because he has a Portuguese passport. Sounds good.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:44
Berba had a good first 15 minutes yesterday but after that he was completely out of the game. The team was looking to somebody to take the game by the scruff of the neck and with Rooney and Ronaldo also being rubbish and it took Tevez, Berba’s direct competition to do this. Tevez had more attempts in that substitute appearances than Berba has had in the last 3 or 4 games. And that quite frankly is unacceptable imo.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:48
@Grognard: Why thank you Grog
. Berba didn’t do too bad with little passes and deft touches, but in and around the box he was truly awfully inept. Evra truly pisses me off, he wastes so much energy getting forward, and NEVER, and I mean NEVER ever has a helpful end product. USELESS! Fergie should ban his forages forward. Scholesy and Andie were stinking in MF, Scholesy is too slow, and cannot play our speed game anymore. Andie, well he hardly got a pass to reach one of our players for a good part of the game. Rooney was utterly ABYSMAL as was Ronnie. Ronnie’s first touch evaded him, and well we all know Rooney hasn’t got a first touch, except on very rare occasions. When Rooney is good, he is very very good, but when he is bad he is HORRID. Last night the whole game he was horrid. Sorry Roon fans, not trying to wind anybody up, but even you have to admit that was not one of Rooney’s finest moments. Great result and that is to be applauded, but general standard of play, NOT IMPRESSIVE I have to say. TWO GREAT individual goals though – of THE BEST TYPE.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:48
@Traverse: Ribery is a superb player but for once this summer I think we should keep our powder dry, buy Tevez and give some of the kids a go next season.
Don’t buy Benzema try Macheda or Welbeck
Don’t buy Valencia play Nani
Don’t buy Ribery try Tosic or stick with Park or Rooney
Also having Hargo fit (touch wood) will add something fresh regardless, we have the twins, Possebon why not give them a good chance of succeeding at our club? We have massive debts and lets for a change not pay over the odds for a player lets take care of what is important, the club.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:49
@Craig Mc: Anderson was the worst player on the pitch mate.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:51
Yesterday Vida was fouled in Wigan’s goal and in the second hand Ronnie was denied a clear penalty. I am glad we won regardless but you don’t read in the press that the ref ruled against us in two crucial calls that could have affected our chances of winning the Championship.
May 14th, 2009 at 13:52
@michael: Hahaha – I know what you mean Michael
. Most important thing though, we got the win we needed, so job done eh!
May 14th, 2009 at 14:00
@Stephen: Mmmmmmm I don’t know mate, quite a few of our players were vying for title of last nights WORST player
.
May 14th, 2009 at 14:03
@Craig Mc: Mate he was awful, but it has been a hard season and it is taking its toll on the lads, but they have great character and team spirit which in the ends has seen them nearly over the line.
Rooney since the turn of the year has been superb, and Ok he wasn’t great last night but neither was Ronaldo, Vidic who wasn’t fouled for the goal, Evans, Scholes but they all never gave up, and credit to them.
May 14th, 2009 at 14:22
@Stephen: I agree Bro
. I wish I got the money they get, and all the times they are RESTED – yet they are TIRED 
, POOR LITTLE LAMBS 
.
May 14th, 2009 at 14:51
@Stephen: Makes a change to read something like that for once and I concur completely! Usually all I tend to see here is stuff like ‘Fergie must go cos he’s past it and is clueless and inept’, Evra (to quote an infamous blog member – ’sell that fucking piece of shit!’), Nani, Tevez, Ronaldo et al must be sold and replaced with Benzema, Silva, Villa, Ribery, De Rossi etc etc in the summer, ESPECIALLY after we’ve had a shite game.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:00
@Craig Mc: Craig mate..why don’t you try doing 90 minutes of extremely high level physical exertion combined with the mental burden that is the pressure of running out for the biggest club in the world in front of 76,000 expectant fans 2-3 times a week – every week for 10 months a year! In addition to training every day and extra hours that you are expected to put in the gym to maintain those extremely high levels of fitness. Not forgetting being hounded by paparazzi and having next to no privacy!
I think that a far more stressful and strenuous lifestyle than sitting at a desk in front of a computer all day checking and composing the odd e-mail like the vast majority of the UK workforce do and so the money that these footballers earn is partly justified in my opinion.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:09
@Craig Mc: Following on from my previous comment, I don’t begrudge the top footballers like Ronaldo, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Lampard etc. earning what they earn as they are all top, consummate professionals and totally deserve it for the hard work, dedication and sacrifice that they’ve put in to reach the top of their profession.
It’s average dickheads like Ibrahimovic, Adebayor, Lucas Neill, Michael Owen, David Bentley, Cashley Cole, Lee Bowyer and dare I say it, Smudger at Newcastle (who picks up £40k a week for lying in the treatment room and making an odd appearance here and there), who really piss me off with their inflated sense of self-worth and pick up tons of cash that they don’t deserve!
May 14th, 2009 at 15:14
One note of interest on the Tevez ’saga’. MSI are asking for £30million overal, meaning it would cost us £22million to make his 2 year £8mil loan deal permanent.
What the hell else can we get for £22mililon? Seriously? The more I think about it, the more it is a no brainer. Just sign him up and get on with it. £22mililon can get you fuck all.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:24
@Traverse: But it is not £22m, it £30/32m I am not saying don’t spend the money but you cannot forget the £5m a season “loan” figure in all of this.
Carlos is an United player and everyone wants him to be one, but also the club or more importantly David Gill has to for once in his life at least try and negotiate a deal. We always pay over the odds for players, I really hope Carlos stays no doubt but maybe for once we have to get a better deal.
Regardless of what people say he wants to play for us only, and we also do not know what the Glaziers are saying about the funding side of this, the original deal was brokered in a different economic climate, and maybe the funds are simply not there.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:29
@Stephen: But we’ve paid 8mil for the loan so thats gone regardless.
If he goes we’d need a replacement. Who could replace Tevez for £22million? No one half as good. Players like David Silva are going to be on offer at £50mil this summer due to City’s billions.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:33
@Traverse: Liverpool have made a “take it or leave it” bid of £15m for Silva.
I am not saying we shouldn’t buy Carlos and and pray we do, I know that money has gone but in my view it should be considered into the all round package for the player with regard to the transfer fee.
May 14th, 2009 at 15:38
@Stephen: what does berba have to do with Ibra?
May 14th, 2009 at 15:43
@johnsom33: If you don’t believe Berba
suits our style or team then how do think Ibrahimovic will?
May 14th, 2009 at 15:50
@Stephen: Read my post again, tell me where in my post I mentioned Ibra. Let me save you some time, I didnt.
I find it funny that you and Craig slam me for bringing up a rumour that I read, because I was “attempting to start a argument” and that I was lying about reading it. Then you come in here today and try and start a argument about the two. I dropped it why cant you?
Get off your Berba paranoia
May 14th, 2009 at 15:58
@johnsom33: Firstly mate, I havn’t “slammed” you for the rumour I said, “I don’t know where you have heard the “Berba for Zlatan” rumour from” Hardly a slamming was it?
Secondly I have not tried to start an argument I was mearly asking the question because you said you would swap the two in a “heartbeat”, and also stated “I don’t care what anyone says, I would snap jose hand off if he offered Ibra for berba.”
Who really is paranoid??
May 14th, 2009 at 16:10
@Stephen: Then they’ll leave it!
May 14th, 2009 at 16:16
@Traverse: Maybe maybe not, I want Carlos to stay but just want the best deal for my club that is all.
May 14th, 2009 at 16:24
@Stephen: well maybe I did try and lump you in with craig
The point is, Craig asked me to drop it so I did. my stance on Berbatov has been the same for awhile now before and after we were linked to Ibra. I apologize for bringing him up the other day, but he has nothing to do with Berba fitting in or not fitting in with our team.
The only reason I said the bit about the paranoia is because I get branded a Berbahater just because I dont drink the Kool-Aid. I never once said he is rubbish, he is a world class player that just doesnt suit our style in my opinion. If that staement qualify’s me as a berbahater then so be it.
May 14th, 2009 at 16:26
anyone else feel sorry for Fabio? for the past couple of years he was the better of the 2,but injuries kept him out of the first team this year. yet his brother got a lot of games and a new contract. I bet he loves his brother and is happy for him, but I cant help but feel he might be a little envious of the role reversal in their relationship.
May 14th, 2009 at 16:30
:@johnsom33: Ha Ha no worries mate at all, lets just all get behind the boys 18 titles level with Liverpool and if we win the Champions League Fergie will be on three European Cups same as Bob Paisley, what can be wrong with the World!
May 14th, 2009 at 17:55
@colver: What worries me is that they don’t have anything to play for and will be relaxed for a change and that their best player Arshavin will be fit and that player as most on here know simply is awesome in my opinion. He can create two goals for them by himself. It’s never over until it’s over.
May 14th, 2009 at 17:57
@Traverse: Forget Ribery. First off, he looks certain to go to Real Madrid with the coaxing and help of Zidane. Secondly, if that happens, we all can forget about Ronaldo leaving. And thirdly, there is no way United could afford Ribery unless Ronaldo was sold. So all those factors tell me that Ribery won’t be coming here.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:01
@Stephen: So let me get this mate, we don’t need Ribery or any other quality winger because Tosic took 5 months to score his first goal with the reserves? Mighty optimistic, I must say.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:05
@Craig Mc: Berba could have easily had three assists yesterday because of brilliant passes to player as well as having made the key pass that created that sitter that Carrick missed. Where you get the idea that his passing was off is beyond me mate. Quoite often his passes would fail because the guy he was passing to either quit on the play or was half asleep and never clued in to Berba’s incredible imagination. Sorry mate but you got it all wrong about him, but certainly you are dead on about Evra and everyone else. Evra’s end product has always been suspect to me but lately it is almost laughable. I’m glad we signed up Dodo to fight it out with Fabio for that spot in the future because Evra’s days have to be numbered.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:08
@Stephen: I agree with all that mate although I still think buying Valencia would be a good move. I love Nani but our style of play and the requirements Fergie puts on him are like mixing oil and water. I just don’t see it working, but I would love to be proven wrong. Valencia to me is a dynamic talent and I just wonder what his potential could be playing for a team like ours?
May 14th, 2009 at 18:11
@Stephen: Anderson sucked supremely. In fact whenever we have a game where the buildup is slower and more continental, Anderson really struggles to play well. He is at his best when he can make fast paced forging runs and dribbles at the hear of another teams’ defense before he loses the ball. Slowing him down seems to make him worthless and his passing then becomes very careless not just in the attacking zone, but everywhere on the pitch. He has his moments but he also has a lot to learn. I sometimes wonder why Anderson never selected rugby as his sport. His running and big ass are great for protecting the ball and his shots remind me of field goals anyway.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:15
@frankie: Yes but Vidic also could easily have been red carded or caused us to concede a penalty on Valencia’s opening minute breakaway. He had the lads shirt in the box and many refs would have called it because of the breakaway and because he was struggling to catch him. I don’t blame the ref for our performance. I blame us for lacking the bite and finishing to finish them off in the first 25 minutes.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:31
@Nino: Don’t be a belittler of peoples form of work and judge their physical and emotional stress by claiming athletes suffer more. Being an athlete is a great privilege and the fatigue and stress that comes form it is nothing compared to the drudgery and routine of working a dead end job or being stuck with morons in an office while your stress, blood pressure and heart all take a hit. Athletes work hard but at the end of the day they are a band of brothers playing a kids game and being paid millions of dollars a year to do so. I hardly think that constitutes the same kind of stress the average man and woman have to endure at the workplace and in trying to make ends meet and survive from month to month.
I played competitive sports for many years and had it not been for a knee injury in University, I may have made it as a pro football player (US/Canadian version). I know all about three a day practice sessions and long seasons and fatigue and stress, and I wouldn’t put any of it against working in the kitchen of busy restaurant or working a mundane high pressure office positions. You want stress, try being the Executive Assistant to a Member of the Legislature like I was for three years. That is stress and pressure, not kicking a fucking football around and being paid a bundle to do. I don’t discount their stress and fatigue but do I sympathize with some of the baggage that comes along with that lifestyle but all those players to a man would select what they are doing for minimum wage over what you and I and billions of others on the planet have to do to get by in this world. They live privileged and exotic lives and they are in many cases spoilt brats about it. Their physical sacrifices are nothing because what they are doing physically is actually very healthy for them. Like they say, the best thing for stress, is a workout, not the other way around.
To expect all of us who have real lives, pressures and troubles to deal with to buy into your argument is truly and hopelessly ridiculous and I for one took great offense. Try living on Disability Benefits like myself without the health to go back and work and try making ends meet and stay stress free then my friend. And you expect me to understand your argument supporting the stress and sacrifice of a select privileged group f players that are doing what millions would sacrifice their left nut to do for 1/1000th the money? Give me a frakken break and cry me a river. Life in the real world is far more stressful and taxing than playing footy for a lot of fame and money.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:48
@Nino: Sacrifice, dedicating yourself to a sport that pays you millions is not sacrifice my friend. Try working for crap wages and deciding not to buy yourself a small gift because you need to put food on your table is a sacrifice. Working extra hours with no overtime is a sacrifice, being forced to work on the weekend and not spend it with your family is a sacrifice. Playing a couple of 90 minute games in front of thousands in the stands and millions on tv is hardly a sacrifice. It’s a gift from God and a great privilege .0001% of the world’s population ever get the chance to experience. Try working that hard and even harder for crappy wages while fighting for your country in Iraq or Afghanistan, while your life is constantly in jeopardy? That’s a sacrifice and that for me is truly playing for your country too.
Your view of the world mate seems very sanitized by the value you place on pop culture. There is no sacrifice in becoming an actor, sports athlete or any kind of entertainer. First of all, you have to have been born with the talent and then the minor sacrifices and tunnel vision you need to succeed in it is minor compared to the true sacrifice of life and the risks with little or no reward that many have to take on a day to day basis to do their jobs, or basically survive and put food on their family’s table.
Sorry mate but your argument has really hit a nerve with me because you clearly don’t get it. Grab a dose of reality when you talk to others about stress and sacrifice. Christ, athletes, especially sissy footballers are pampered spoilt children who need nothing and get more than they need out of life and you want to make the argument that they get tired and stressed. Yes I can just imagine the stress poor Franck Ribery is going through. Will it be Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City or Man Utd, and I won’t sign for anything less than what Ronaldo makes. Poor fellow. The stress and fatigue he will feel from having to make that hard decision. And then he has to look for a mansion or high priced townhouse when he decides on the team. My God, I don’t know if I could handle the stress to have to work so hard to come up with those decisions. God give me strength.
May 14th, 2009 at 18:57
@Grognard: If you read the post carefully you’ll see that I said their wages were PARTLY justified by what they did. You’re right, the average man and woman are under a great deal of pressure with paying off mortgages, raising families and feeding mouths, threat of redundancies (especially in the current climate) etc. – I am not oblivious to that fact – but being in the public eye constantly and sacrificing stuff like privacy that the average man or woman take for granted has pressures of its own and is a big price to pay for fame and thats what I was trying to argue. Yes they live privileged lives but in most cases, they have earnt it by working hard.
Being a footballer is a specialist skilled profession that only a handful of exceptionally talented people are capable of doing, and skilled trades will always command higher salaries than common office or admin jobs for example that anybody off the street could do. Could you bend it like Beckham, dribble like Messi, play impudent through balls like Riquelme or Xavi or score 40-yard screamers like Ronaldo?
If you or I were fortunate to be in the situation that professional sportspeople find themselves in we would not complain about it and thats a fact. To summarise, both situations i.e. being a sportsman and being a ‘normal’ person, have their pros and cons and hardships at the end of the day.
May 14th, 2009 at 19:06
@Grognard: I do not have a warped view of the world and I am perfectly aware of the hardships that normal people face thank you very much. I myself am a poor student living off loans from the UK government education authorities and working part-time jobs during term time to sustain myself at university, and furthermore my mom was made redundant last year and has been working temp jobs here and there to supplement my fathers income and sustain my younger siblings, so I certainly do not need you to lecture me on the hardships of life. I was just trying to offer a balanced argument by looking at both sides of the coin.
May 14th, 2009 at 19:22
@Grognard: Playing 90 minute games in front of thousands may not be a sacrifice and indeed a rewarding gift from God but you certainly need to make a sacrifice to get yourself to that point. It’s not every Tom, Dick and Harry off the street who gets to pull on that famous red jersey and represent the biggest club in the world now is it!
Look at Ronaldo; not the best example, but he uprooted himself from Madeira in his early teens to move to the Portuguese mainland to train with Sporting Lisbon, was tormented by classmates there and bullied and isolated because of his accent, moved again to a far flung land at the age of 18 where he didnt speak the language and didnt know anyone there, but all these sacrifices paid off once he worked hard and became the world best player. Another example could be Kiko Macheda’s dad who worked dead end jobs to drive his son to football training and the result – he scores the winner in a title decider and makes world headlines.
The point I am trying to make is that there are huge sacrifices involved in trying to become a pro footballer and millions of young boys do not make the cut every year because they weren’t dedicated enough to improving themselves (I have experience of this as a quite a few of my friends and classmates from high school wanted to be pro footballers but didnt make the grade with West Ham United as a result of fooling around with girls, clubbing and hanging with the wrong crowd during college etc, instead of working at their game, and are now doing alternatives like studying sports science), so the privileged lifestyle that footballers enjoy has to be earnt by working hard.
May 14th, 2009 at 20:20
@Grognard: ” There is no sacrifice in becoming an actor, sports athlete or any kind of entertainer”
Yes there is; for one thing there’s the massive likelihood that you won’t make it. You’re basically throwing away your education for the chance to have a career that will end before your 40th birthday. The rewards are massive because the potential losses are huge too.
Footballers don’t deserve what they get in some moralistic way, but they earn that money; how many people buy Utd shirts just to get Ronaldo 7 on the back?
May 14th, 2009 at 20:35
Tevez has been regaining some form of late and good for him, and for us too!
I was mulling it over – will he really be what we need for the long term?
Facht 1: He doesn’t like to be benched and always moans in the press about it. (Berbatov also a moody git apparently, but rarely talks to the press about not playing…)
Facht 2: He earns 100,000 pounds a week! Vidic and Carrick are more important to our team imho, but do they earn that kind of money? I’d rate Tevez importance to the team on par with Fletcher or O’shea. Does that mean Fletch and O’shea should now earn 100,000 a week?
Facht 3: I really want to see the best out of Wayne Rooney. And that can only be achieved (imho, again) as Rooney being the second striker. If Tevez stays does that mean Rooney will have to play more and more on the left (or right?). The boy wonder’s been playing really well for months now, but it is a fact that if he doesn’t score more or less regularly, his general creativity tends to also suffer… So for me, Rooney on the left is a short term solution.
If Tevez can carry his recent form on the long run, then I’m all for signing him. But I just wanted to temper the recent outburst of goodwill towards him by looking at the bigger picture. I also agree with Traverse about the fact that its very difficult to get a player equivalent talent for 20 million nowadays (and would much rather stick with Nani than go for Valencia…. but that’s a different story).
P.S: By the way Penguin (who used to be a regular here, wonder if he got an argument with RR…) wrote some very valid observations about Tevez recently on ROM… worth a read…
May 14th, 2009 at 20:38
@Grognard: I disagree about the sacrifice of being a professional athlete. You of all people on here should know the incredible sacrifice it takes to make it to a high level in athletics. People who never played sports only see the tip of the iceberg in a players career. They miss the hours in the gym and or pitch perfecting their craft. They miss seeing the players sacrifice a normal social life growing up. WHile other kids are going out to parties and drinking till they pass out, the dedicated athletes are in bed early and getting up early.
I dont mean this as a lecture because you already know all this. having said all that I agree that it is an immense privledge to play sports professional, and it is just that a priviledge. Many athletes forget this and think its there right to be an athlete. This is why I have zero sympathys for the players like Michael Vick or Plaxico Burress, because they took there blessings for granted and basically flushed it down the toilet. Giggs cannot be praised enough for the manner in which he has conducted his career, he had his blip early on, but he took what fergie had to say to heart and it paid off in spades.
May 14th, 2009 at 20:40
@Grognard: Errrrr Grog, I think you should read my post comments AGAIN Bro
. I said Berba was okay with his small and also deft passing, but it was his performance in and around the box that I found again unimpressive!
May 14th, 2009 at 20:41
I really like Valencia, from the looks of it I cant see Nani sticking around another year(I know I wouldnt) and Valencia looks like a winger built for the EPL.
May 14th, 2009 at 20:48
@Grognard: Hahahahaha – the mighty Arshavin
. I don’t think this game will be a draw, and United better not try to play for one. What we need is someone to glue theirselves to Arshavins ARSE so he gets NO room at all. Also need a very tight MF to stop Le Arses MF from those very good through balls they play so well. We need our best MF whatever that is, and we need Evra to stop those forages forward that end in utter bloody disaster, and stick to doing a good defensive job on Le Arse wide players. Don’t be fooled, Arsenal are not coming to see us walk the game, and be gifted the points we need. Also if anyone saw the Arsenal/Chelsea game, you will surely have seen that Arsenal were the far better team for the first 20 minutes, and only got down when that Artiste diver Mad Dog Drog threw himself down for the opportunity that led to Chelski scoring. Bloody cheat!
May 14th, 2009 at 20:50
@johnsom33: Johnsom Bro – WHY ARE MY EARS BURNING eh?
.
May 14th, 2009 at 20:53
@johnsom33: I slammed you Johnsom about Berba????? – errrr when was that then? I thought I had been quite TIMID in my responses lately – cannot remember any body slamming or any other kinds of slamming
.
May 14th, 2009 at 20:54
@NicoQB: could you point us to that Penguin article on ROM
May 14th, 2009 at 20:58
@Nino: For 150,000 quid a week Nino Bro – SHOW ME THE WAY mate
. Have you seen our lads in what you call high exertion training every day. Bro its like 2 hours in the mornings and joking around most of the time, its jollies mate, and I’ve been there and seen it 
.
May 14th, 2009 at 21:08
@Craig Mc: Craig…don’t you have ‘jollies’ and laughs with your colleagues at work at the water cooler or over a coffee in the canteen??? Or do you work in a funeral parlour? Same thing mate!
May 14th, 2009 at 21:12
@Craig Mc: Craig if they didnt do high exertion training and just faffed and larked around all morning as you say they do there would be no Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues in our trophy cabinet at present!
May 14th, 2009 at 21:26
@Craig Mc: My apologies, I wrote your name when I meant Dan. I dont really know,I guess my mind was focusing on something else.
May 14th, 2009 at 21:26
@johnsom33: You bring up a very good point that I realised that I missed out from my argument. The pop culture of today which Grognard referred to in one of his responses to me means that we only see the glitz and the glamour which surrounds sports such as football and Formula 1, which also portrays players in a negative light: players staggering out of nightclubs with their trousers down, hot birds on their arms, roasting and raping girls in posh London hotels, crashing Ferraris and throwing tantrums when substituted, meeting rival club officials for ‘ice cream’ and what not.
As you say, if you strip all that away, underneath it all you will find a world where honest pros are in the gym working out and building strength and fitness, or on the pitch doing extra practice, like Beckham, Ronaldo, Scholes and Cantona did, just to name a few. Lewis Hamilton’s dad made huge sacifices to pay for his son’s interest in racing go-karts, breaking down racial barriers along the way, and look where that went. I also referred to Macheda’s dad earlier as another example of sacrifice coming to fruition. So sorry Grognard if you are reading this but for once I totally disagree with your views on this topic.
May 14th, 2009 at 21:52
look at this
http://imgkk.com/i/o7AuRv5J.gif
May 14th, 2009 at 21:56
@Tj: No offence mate but that’s an old gif. Was doing the rounds back in January.
May 14th, 2009 at 22:08
@t_reason: Here you go mate.
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/carlitos-a-team-player-and-a-good-player-not-a-squad-player-or-a-great-player/
Mind that that article was written before the Wigan game and we know how people’s opinion of players vary according to a player’s form…so..
May 14th, 2009 at 22:15
@NicoQB: lol, thanx
May 14th, 2009 at 23:21
@Nino: All the more reason why you shouldn’t concern yourself with any of the trivial pressures that pro footballers go through. My heart bleeds for the spoilt wankers. They have everything they could ever want and enough money for several lifetimes and you seem to think that they are specialists. Yes they are specialists, playing a kids sport and having fun every day of their lives while you and your mother toil away for fraction of a percent of what they make. And then you have the antics of Ribery and Ronaldo come out to basically slap all the people who watch the sport as an escape from the torture that is their normal lives.
I myself have placed dozen of specialized IT professionals in positions that only a small fraction of IT trained individuals are qualified. The poor blokes get paid anywhere in the region of 100k to 200k a year but the pressure for them to produce and make deadlines for their companies is so extreme, while they are in many cases working 70 hour weeks, eating out of chip bag with a can of soda and very little thanks and even less of a life.
I’ve seen so many burnouts and have had to come to save some from their job and from themselves because the pressure and the stress got so big. In fact, one of them used to work for EA here in Vancouver and he had a nervous breakdown having to finish NHL 04 for the XBOX and Playstation. He was a product manager and the expectations placed on him were so severe that it’s a no brainer as to why that company goes through a yearly recycling of staff. Nobody can endure EA for more than a few years. And I am supposed to feel for the privileged stress and opportunities footballers go through. No way in Hell mate. And you shouldn’t give their stress and sacrifce the time of day knowing what you are going through and what your poor mother has had to endure. She is the real icon and hero in your life and I don’t have to tell you that. And I sincerely hope all the time, work, stress and sacrifice you are putting in works out for the best.
But don’t let anybody ever tell you that you didn’t give as much if not more than what a pro athlete gives. That industry is so cash heavy and corrupt that nobody working in it is paid what they are really worth. Why should a footballer be paid 10 million a season and scientist or medical researcher gets paid 1/100th of that amount? Or for that matter a policeman, teacher or fireman? How about a soldier? I am bitching about the skewed and wacky injustices of life and how we seem to idolize and overly reward the wrong people. I liked it better in the 70’s when in many North American sports a pro athlete got what I felt was a fair wage but where many also had an off season job selling insurance or cars to help supplement their meagher earnings as athletes. And because of that they were much more involved in the community and their ego’s were in check. Humility was there for all to see. Instead today I watch a slumdog from the island of Medeira make the grade with Manchester United, come out of the slums with nothing to his name other than being good at kicking a can around the street in his bare feet and now he is a multi millionaire who snubs and disrespects the fans who pay him as well as the manager and players who have mentored and built him up, supported him and made him what he is today. A spoilt arrogant millionaire with attitude and petulance. Spare me if I don’t bow down to them mate.
Most of them truly get on my nerves for all the wrong reasons. And I cannot and will not handle others making a case for their sacrifices and stresses. They have ZERO stress and have made trivial sacrifices considering what they have accomplished and made. All they have is the fortune of being born with a gift that somebody saw early enough to help them nurture and develop. I’ll respect and honor the ones who give back to the community and the ones that respect and are thankful for the privileges they have attained like a Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs, as well showing gratitude to the supporters and coaches who have helped and supported them through their journey.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:31
@Nino: The point is we all make eqyual sacrifices in our lives but do not receive the same compensation and fringe rewards for our efforts. And it is wrong for us to idol worship people who have it so much better simply because they play a physically demanding game. It’s only physically demanding to us because we can’t play it as well or at that level. But put any of them in our particular shoes and they may crumble at the stresses and pressure we go through without having to run and work up a sweat. Athletics is for dummies. 90% of all footballers in the world haven’t even sacrificed or taken the time to finish high school yet alone try university. Footy is a slum sport. That is Brazil is so good at it. Enough shantytowns exist to breed great footballers. And something should know, the worst, most arrogant and conceited millionaire entertainers on the planet, originally got their start in the slums.
Actors and athletes for the most part are the lowest form of human on the planet. Yes I am generalizing but I have also met and been a round many in my life to see exactly what they are and what they really represent. And so you must forgive me if I am ranting on and on about showing little or no respect for their supposed gifts and sacrifices. I love to watch them play and I am appreciative of their skills and efforts, but it still is at the end of a day, trivial entertainments. And people in that kind of work are getting paid far more than they are worth and are also given far too much attention by people who really need to get more of a life. I love sports but one thing I am not big on anymore (I used to be) is idol worship. After a while you meet some of your heroes and you realize they are no different or any more special than you. Yet they have made millions while you struggle to get by. I don’t know if I should hug them, shake their hand or punch them in the teeth. Because what they do is rewarded in an unjust manner and is literally a kick in my groin.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:35
@michael: In North America sports like basketball and pro football are based on drafting players out of university so education is a major factor for many of those athletes but most baseball players and the majority of hockey players are as dumb and out of touch with life and have very poor educations. Sports should never keep a young person from getting his education first because of the high probability of not making it in the sport or having a career ending injury force them to have to fall back on what they have learned. Soccer has been very irresponsible in this area.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:42
@johnsom33: There sacrifices are no greater than the sacrifices millions go through to enter college train and become working professionals in fields that have truly high stress and demand perfection. Athletics is trivial nonsense that is taken far too seriously and where the athletes get paid way more than they are worth. And having been someone who dedicated himself to sports well into his mid 20’s, I do not consider working hard and training in a sport I love to play any kind of sacrifice whatsoever. By that time your body is so well tuned that what you see as being incredibly grueling isn’t that bad. It just looks bad to the couch potato who gets tired going from his tv to the kitchen to make a submarine sandwich. No matter how hard it is, naturally gifted athletes sacrifice only time in their endeavor to make it. And for me that’s not that big a sacrifice if you have what it takes in playing a kids sport. I played a few sports at a very high level and I never for once found it more grueling or tiring than working in a kitchen, taking stucco off a house or working cement and paving streets. Sports for me was a joy ride until I tore up my knee.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:44
@Craig Mc: I did read what you read Bro and I disagree about Berba. His play in and around the box was sublime and he should have had three assists had it not been for others poor finishing. His first touch, control of the ball and finesse passes were often to smart and too good for the pillocks trying to get on the end of them. Rooney especially played very poorly and was often out to lunch on many of Berba’s imaginative ideas.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:45
@Craig Mc: Same setup as last time should do the job with Fletcher harassing Arshavin as much as possible.
May 14th, 2009 at 23:58
@johnsom33:
, No problems Bro.
May 15th, 2009 at 0:07
@Nino: I don’t have any work mates Bro, I am SELF EMPLOYED
. You need to go and watch some of the training sessions Nino, and you will see what I mean. United play so MANY games, as do most top teams, in a season, and pre season, that alone keeps them in good niche, and they only need light training sessions often. Some HIGHLY professional players, who respect themselves and their bodies, do work in the gym, and stay behing when most others are long gone to work on their game. Trust me though Bro, such players are FEW and far between. Other United players are the partying shag anything with a pulse types, falling out of nightclubs, and pants and everything else hanging down. Soft drugs, and bringing themselves and their football clubs into great disrepute. There are more of these than there are of the TRUE professionals who take care of themselves. Do I respect most of our nightclubbing players, do I feck Bro, never have respected their lifestyles and never will. I am with Grog on this one Bro 
.
May 15th, 2009 at 0:34
@Grognard: Who said anything about idol worship mate? I certainly didn’t! Well I am too tired to argue this anymore and I’ve lost track of the way the debate was progressing anyway, so I will just say that you have made some decent points in your latter responses and I believe that I have made some valid points as well. I am not defending or condoning what some pro footballers get up to: I will say, though, that for every prima donna like Ronaldo there is a consummate professional like Giggs and footballers shouldn’t be all tarred with the same brush. Some of them – a select minority, as I have maintained throughout this debate – do deserve the wages that they earn for what they bring to the game.
To Craig Mc: Alright Bro, fair enough, I will take your word for it that you have seen them train, and I would also go along too if United opened up Carrington to the general public and fans. I am not defending the rights of professional footballers or anything as I’m sure they have oodles of money to pay some high-powered lawyers to do that for them, but I’m the type of person who ALWAYS tries to look at both sides of an argument and attempt to draw a sensible conclusion.
Goodnight.
May 15th, 2009 at 3:04
@Nino: My entire point was to show you that these indivisuals do not deserve to be put on some kind of pedestal because their work ethid or sacrifice is any better or different than the ordinary man who goes out every day and 9 to 5’s it or works the graveyard shift. Their stress and fatigue is nothing compared to ordinary people trying to survive and so we shouldn’t feel one ounce of sympathy for them because of the pressures of game day or what fans and media ask of them. They are in privileged positions and are bloody blessed to have what they have. Whether they appreciate or not, they do not warrant the kind idol worship and appreciation for their hard work that some give them because in mind they are still just playing a kids game for money. None of them would know what a real job looks like. They are social outcasts because they live inside a bubble of financial wealth and status. So basically, I piss on their fatigue, sacrifices and stress.
May 15th, 2009 at 3:06
@Craig Mc: Can you imagine the sacrifices, stresses and fatigue that a nightclubbing football playing gigolo has to go through? The poor bastards!
May 15th, 2009 at 4:12
I think we can all agree that (top-level) footballers are for the most part terrible human beings who lead infuriatingly good lives and that there is some sort of moral injustice being perpetrated when they are not only routinely paid millions every year but that the average wage has more than doubled in 10 years. That being said, I think we all can agree that the quality of football we are accustomed to watching is due almost entirely to these wages, which convince young boys to dedicate their lives to improving their game. Obviously most are also motivated by the thrill of playing in cup finals or for their country, but that dream will rarely convince someone to dedicate themselves completely to sporting prowess, not when it gets in the way of tangible short term goals like girlfriends, school or going out with your mates and when so many youngsters these days have better opportunities (there’s a reason most of the best players come from poverty). It’s probably eschewing this from 12 onwards that leads to players being such twats once they’ve made it (don’t forget, even Giggs was a bit of a playboy at 22-23)!
Basically I think that although Ronaldo et al earn too much, if those sums weren’t on offer they may have ended up in other lines of employment. I’m not a big believer in natural talent; it’s exposure to the game and work that makes a player, although it must be said that those years of dedication create players capable of doing things few others can. Sad as it is, anyone can be a nurse yet clearly few can make it at the highest levels of professional football. And although playing top-level football may seem like a reward in itself to us, don’t forget that their careers are over by 40 with few other prospects.
Money has, for better or worse, made the Premiership the strongest league in the world; an argument could be made that for the good of football we are duty-bound to continue paying these crazy wages…
May 15th, 2009 at 4:20
@Grognard: The problem with this argument is that these are the select few that have made it to the top of their profession. They have been courted, because of their stand-out skills, and now treated like the bees-knees, when they produce their stand-out skills.
The rewards for players at this level are phenomenal. The money, the fame, the adoration, is way beyond anything that your regular 9-5 Joe could possibly expect, and so to draw a parallel universe between the working class and a PL football star, for any reason, is not reasonable!
May 15th, 2009 at 4:41
@michael: Well it’s really basic economics. Supply v. Demand.
The demand for outstanding players out weighs the supply of them, handily. Thus, the price to secure their services is very high.
Money is the only motivating factor that there is, in this great league. So it’s not a question of “for better or worse”, it really more a case of “the more the merrier”.
By the way, a good way to curb the extortionate wages and the inflated ticket prices, is to stop watching football and take up bowling or mens knitting. I hear they are very relaxing past-times, and will not fleece your pocketbook!!
May 15th, 2009 at 4:49
@NicoQB: A great read, mate. And I just thought that Tevez had poor close control of the ball!! Wow, am I a light weight?!
May 15th, 2009 at 6:59
Okey guys, Im leaving for Manchester now!
Hoping for a win, but a draw wouldnt be too bad. Hope we lift the trophy on saturday, would be sweet. See you later. COME ON UNITED!!! 
May 15th, 2009 at 7:12
@RedDevilEddy: so i hope to see you in 2 or 3 days, yes no eddy time lol, i joke i joke.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:36
These “superstars” get paid so much because of the money they bring into the club,
their value is only based on how the rest of the world perceives them and is willing to spend on.
dam, look at some actors and singers who are utterly rubbish at what they do, no talent whatsoever, but they do have appeal, which makes them celebrities.
it’s got nothing to do with sacrifice, and even then it’s not really a sacrifice, because they earn the reward and its for themselves. a real sacrifice is giving what costs you the most for something you’ll never profit.
to see people who sacrifice, look at great scientists who look to cure cancers or whatever and make the world a better place, or the people who sacrifice their lives to make another’s better…
I respect sports stars get to the top of their game because of a lot of hard work, but it’s not on an equal scale to what everyone else does. they’re just in a more popular field, so people are willing to pay money to watch them.
it’s the same as people in finance, they make money of other people’s money, no real hard work in there, no blood sweat and tears, they’re just in the business of it.
that’s all it comes down to in the end, business.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:27
Article on Asshole Joorabchian:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1181543/Inside-story-How-businessmen-bought-United-star-Tevez-West-Ham-fallout-man-shape-future.html
He is the frigging godfather Tevez’s daughter!
And apparently Real madrid have made a 40million offer for tevez??
May 15th, 2009 at 9:36
@Grognard: Let me get it straight for you mate
Ribery is a great player no doubt, but we have players who play out wide already, I really don’t see why we buy player for around £8m like Tosic and simply because so far he hasn’t played we give up really without any first team action, all I am saying is give the players we have already a chance, and save some money. Why buy another player for £30+m who plays in the same positionish, it to me is nonsensical, regardless of how good he is, but thats football 
With Valencia the same logic applies we have Nani, lets play him he has bags of talent and like most plays could do with a good run in the side, I can see us saying the same thing in a years time about Valencia.
Anderson drives me mad, he is either a good prospect, or overrated and over priced, God knows which.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:11
@NicoQB: He won’t go there for sure as he wants to stay in England. My instincts say that we will, somehow, retain him for next season as he’s managed to ingrain himself into the fabric of this club over the two years that he’s been with us and it takes a rare type of player to do that.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:14
Viva Carlitos!
May 15th, 2009 at 10:27
@Natzca: Dictionary definition of a sacrifice – ‘destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else’.
“People who sacrifice their lives to make another’s better…” – That is certainly a noble thing to do but I disagree that it is the only type of real sacrifice as you say. At the end of the day there is (usually) a positive ultimate gain following a sacrifice, whether it was made for somebody else or yourself.
I don’t see how that is different to a sportsman making personal sacrifices (trivial as they may be when compared to people in the real world) such as forfeiting the right to higher education or forfeiting the right to a normal lifestyle that most of their peers enjoy and take for granted, to focus on on first making it as a professional athlete, then becoming one of the best in their field and obtaining the ultimate rewards.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:49
@Nino: I still have a bad feeling that he could sign for the Dippers
May 15th, 2009 at 12:04
@Stephen: Errrrr Stephen Bro, trust me, if you had seen Tosic play regularly for the reserves, as I have, you would not be saying that mate
. For the life of me, I cannot see why Man United bought Tosic. He is a proper tosser, from what I have seen, and he is NOT a Man United type player. Sorry but I go by what I see!
May 15th, 2009 at 12:07
Oh and by the way Stephen Bro – let Fergie shell out the money for Valencia, so that he can take Nani’s place in the leper colony
. At least Lil man will be out of there, because Inter Milan, Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, and Villa are all after the Nani, so the lad should go and play some football next season, and Valencia will learn what it is like to experience Fergie’s leper colony 
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:11
@Natzca: The only Celebrity Natzca that I would say is worth every penny and everything else that the world can give, is Girls Alouds gorgeous Lush Puppy – delectable Miss Kimberley Walsh. What a dream that lass is, beautiful INSIDE as well as out.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:13
And I can hear you all saying – DREAM ON Craig, Dream On
. I will if you don’t tell the GF. 
May 15th, 2009 at 12:13
@Craig Mc: Well I am prepared to give him a go mate, Ihave seen him in the reserves and if the wind is up he gets blown over, I seriously do not want Valencia as I have said what is the point, we have Nani, Park, Ronaldo even Hargo and Reafael can play there.
In my view we should sign Carlos and that is it, we have massive debts and lets look after our club first, because we really don’t need anyone.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:14
@Craig Mc: Megan Fox in the new Stephen dream girl, she is fit as a butchers dog!
May 15th, 2009 at 12:19
@Grognard: Yeah I can Grog, permanent hangovers from blitzing the nightclubs all the time, and too much travelling to court to answer sexual assault charges every other week. All that shagging anything with a pulse, makes for extra checkup visits to Doctors surgery for tracing any STD’s. And you all wonder why football players SUFFER so many groin strains –
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:21
@Grognard: And that is a very good place to PISS Grog
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:23
@Nino: Aaaaah Nino, your one of the good guys mate
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:26
@Stephen: Well I’m not into Butcher’s dogs Bro, just Lush Puppies
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:29
@Stephen: I agree, we need to SAVE the funds, and clear some of out debts. Plus, what we truly need are players who can COMMAND the MF. I am still not convinced we have the right players there.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:35
Just to make you all laugh, I watched the Wigan game down the pub with the Geordies. They were jesting about how Battering Ram Rooney (their words not mine!) and Ronaldo go into tackles to try and get the ball back. Rooney going in to tackles like his life depended on winning the ball, and Ronnie looking like he is going into tackles, but pulls out of every one like the sugar plum fairy. He wants to be seen to make the effort, but is terrified of actual sticking his foot in, for fear of injuries. This scaredy cat business is why he is able to play every game in a season according to the know nothing Geordies! My response to the Geordies, “If any of your lot knew how to play let alone tackle, you wouldn’t be buried at the bottom of the table
.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:36
@Craig Mc: With Hargo fit that will help bro, he is top draw and would love him in Rome, but if he is not going to be the player he was then that is certainly an area we need to look at, plus I have a soft spot for Gemma Arterton
May 15th, 2009 at 13:11
@Stephen: Don’t think he would stoop that low, even if he does want to play for a big club in the Lancashire area where he is so settled. If he IS to leave, then probably Chelsea or more likely Arsenal imo (or even back to West Ham lol!), but you can never say never in football eh?
May 15th, 2009 at 13:12
@Craig Mc: Craigy my man, you’re an outrageously FUNNY guy I must say! Would love to have a pint with you down the rub-a-dub!
May 15th, 2009 at 13:19
@Stephen: You sure you didn’t mean Gemma Atkinson? lol
May 15th, 2009 at 13:52
@Nino: Ha ha I was talking about the Bond girl
But obviously wouldn’t say no 
May 15th, 2009 at 13:53
@Nino: You never know, especially with Mascherano there!!!
May 15th, 2009 at 14:12
@Stephen: Lol of course I knew you meant the Bond girl mate! I was just trying to mess with your mind!
May 15th, 2009 at 14:16
@Nino: It’s not hard mate!! I must admit those two would be a nice combo!
May 15th, 2009 at 16:12
@Craig Mc: shag anything with a pulse types, falling out of nightclubs, and pants and everything else hanging down. Soft drugs…
I actually quite like that lifestyle
May 15th, 2009 at 16:26
Few thoughts:
1. If we can get Tevez for anything under £20m it’s worth it. If we don’t get him we need to get someone else in, and you can just about guarantee that’ll cost more. Assuming Ronaldo stays, our team doesn’t need much more than Tevez, so it t’aint broke…
2. We’re going to lose on Saturday, but should still be able to draw/beat Hull to take it. Arsenal are better rested, will enjoy the quality OT pitch and have some serious motivation. Plus Adebayor won’t play, and we’ll be playing against 11 men for the first time in 3 matches. Oh and no Rio. Eeep.
3. Scholes is done as a CM. I still believe he would make a handy AMF super-sub, but Fergie seems to disagree, so I think he should retire this off season. Fulham game aside he’s not been United level this year. My second favourite player ever, but that’s the way it goes. Which brings me to 4…
4. Does anyone else think Owen Hargreaves isn’t getting better? Nothing since January about his rehab. Not a word. Not even the token – well Owen is back in training and he’s coming along nicely, or Owen’s surgery seems to have solved it and he’s excited for next year. Nothing. The silence is deafening imo. Ando/Fletch/Carrick/Giggs(!) are not enough options for us to play 60 games a season. Gibson/Possebon have not shown me they can do it. So we either spend, or try to fit square peg in round hole (turn Rooney into one, for example). Not ideal…
May 15th, 2009 at 16:32
Team for tomorrow
VDS
OS Vidic Evans Evra
Fletcher Carrick Ando/Giggs
Park Ronaldo Rooney
May 15th, 2009 at 16:50
@Beachryan: Scholes’s best years are no doubt behind him but he is still a better player than Anderson, Scholes gets on the ball and passes it, Anderson just gives it away and if the game has no tempo then he is not in the game at all in my view.
I genuinely hope it works out for the Brazilian but what actually does he do? People say he is an attacking midfielder, but he can’t shoot, he doesn’t get on the ball and dictate play so he is not a creative midfielder, when he is in his element in games when he has to press the opposition then great, but for getting on £19m I really want more than that.
I know the lad is young but he still is 21, Fabregas is 22, Messi is also 21, it is a young mans game now, and I am not trying to antagonise anyone here but really how long do we have to wait for the lad?
We all say he was great last season, but was he?, good games against Arsenal and Liverpool yes, but after Xmas last year his form has dropped, as I have said I hope it works out for the lad but I have my doubts.
May 15th, 2009 at 17:58
@Beachryan: on point 3. I’m pretty certain there was a thing on ManUtd.com about his surgery being a complete success on both legs and he was now on to a training regime to get him up to full fitness for the start of next season. Good news for United and England alike if the boy is back.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:00
@Beachryan: I read something from SAF, in I believe about early April, that said the 2nd operation was even more successful than the 1st (whatever that might mean) and that he expected him to be ready for pre-season.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:38
@Stephen: It’s simple mate, Ribery would come here if Ronadlo left. We have presently nobody else capable of replacing the best player in the game and all I was saying is that in order for Ribery to come here, Ronaldo would have to leave because otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to afford Ribery. So why you are lecturing me on Ribery and whether we need him or not is beyond me? We need him if Ronaldo leaves, he would be beyond us financially as well as an extravagance if Ronaldo stays.
As for Tosic, I am not won on that boy whatsoever. It’s taken him far too long to get his head out of his ass even with the reserves and I for one believe he is going to be a flop. I’m hoping at least that Llajic isn’t.
We will be buying Valencia this off season as that needed winger we have lacked so far. Nani, Tosic, Park will all have to fight for their place on the bench if Valencia comes.
I for one do not believe that Ronaldo is leaving. It sounds like Ribery is very close to signing with Real Madrid thanks in big part to the inside work of Zinedine Zidane. If this happens, not only don’t we get Ribery but we don’t get him because the only team out there that has the money and means and desire to buy Ronaldo will be out of the market. So that would mean Ronaldo stays with us. Even Real cannot afford two players valued at over 60 million. There is no way Fergie would ever sell him to Man City or Chelsea.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:40
@Craig Mc: Yes I forgot to mention that gorgeous well endowed beautiful female celebrities also get a free pass for me in the tolerance department. The world needs beautiful female celebrities.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:47
@Beachryan: Owen is doing fine. I have read several reports where he has been working very hard on his rehab to strengthen the tendons and muscles around both knees. He is training with a private trainer and they are not yet ready to place him on the pitch with players kicking a ball around. He needs to build back the strength he lost in those knees before and because of the surgery. From what i have read the timetable for his return to the pitch is the same for everyone else once they come back from summer holidays. Expect him in the opening day lineup
May 15th, 2009 at 18:49
@Grognard: I am not lecturing you mate far from it and I am sorry if you thought I was
But I agree in all other aspects of your post.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:53
@Beachryan: Rather pessimistic aren’t you mate? We are playing a team who have conceded 3 or more goals in each of their last three games against other members of the Big4. I reckon we’re nailed on to get a draw at least – a loss is completely out of the question. Don’t forget that we will also be fired up to beat them and win the title in front of them after the Arse won the league at our ground in 2002.
About Hargo, I believe that he has been gagged and told to stay schtum by kidnappers holding him hostage somewhere in South America (Colombia would be my educated guess) and focus on making a full recovery, whereupon he will be released from captivity after a king’s ransom has been met.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:53
@Beachryan: A couple of weeks ago I predicted that we would be Arsenal in the Champions League but lose the game at OT in the EPL. Now I am thinking differently. Yes they will have Arshavin back and that player is truly excellent and really helps their offense, but I also see and Arsenal team that has recently hit rock bottom in form. They are demoralized and their home losses to both us and Chelsea exposed them for the quitters and the kids they truly are.
They have nothing more to play for except pride and that unfortunately for Gooners fans is not going to be enough. We are playing at home which is generally a fortress and we are playing for the EPL title. One thing Fergie will instill in the group is the absolute necessity to win on Saturday in order to rest a lot of player against Hull so that they are fully rested for the Champions League final as well, Hull may be playing for their Premier League survival on the last day at home. Thats the last kind of team I would want to face in order to win the League. They will have everything to play for and their desire and hearts could be up for the task. Nope, we will have to be super up for Arsenal and kick their asses yet one more time so that we can coast in the final week. We must not under any condition be forced to have to win at Hull in order to win the title.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:56
@Stephen: Jeez mate, when it comes to Anderson you are sounding an awful lot like me. Well done mate.
I’ve also noticed something about the lad. When you sit him down for a prolonged period, he comes back full of energy and trying to prove something. Once he has done that he kind of shifts it down a gear or two and then offers nothing until he is once again benched.
May 15th, 2009 at 18:57
@Grognard: I have heard rumours that Tosic was bought merely to entice Ljajic to OT and is simply the support act to Ljajic and that Ljajic is seen as the greater of the two talents, though younger.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:00
@Craig Mc: Those Geordies don’t seem to realise that Ronaldo is one of the most kicked/fouled player in the league. If going into tackles is brave, then I don’t know what getting kicked/fouled throughout your playing career, but still not giving up, is.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:01
@Stephen: That’s fine mate if you weren’t lecturing but then why were you making the point to me as if I needed to be convinced that we were not getting Ribery? I got a little confused because I have always said the only chance of getting him is if Ronny truly does go to Real, otherwise, we are nowhere near the money needed to also buy Ribery. Especially since we need to tie up Carlito or find his replacement s as well as the need for perhaps a central midfielder.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:03
@Grognard: If we win at home tomorrow, we equal our home record of last season with just five points dropped out of a possible 57. A few years ago our home form was a real problem so kudos to Fergie for sorting that out and making OT a fortress again.
And also we’ll almost certainly beat our points total of 87 from last season once we have played Hull, despite playing far shitter this year. What’s that all about??!
May 15th, 2009 at 19:05
@Nino: I never heard that but based on what I have read and even heard form Craig’s personal expose’s having seen him train, I believe it. What I have seen of LLajic tells me he has tremendous skill but I honestly feel he lacks pace, which could be a problem in England. Lack of pace is what has made Scholes a liability at time this year and has always been the number one weakness of Michael Carrick. It would be nice to have a central midfielder like Hargo who has the pace to mark a player out of a game and to make a run forward without worrying about somebody coming from behind and dispossessing them. But like I said, Llajic is so young and i have seen very very little of him that I am hoping my judgment is wrong about his lack of pace.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:06
@Grognard: Spot on mate on that point, when he comes back he plays like a man on a mission then he just falls back to at best mediocity.
I honestly did not mean that you needed convining mate bad typing probably by me pal
May 15th, 2009 at 19:09
@Nino: If we beat Arsenal, trust me we may really lose at Hull despite the fact they have been in a half season long tailspin. If their collective lives in the Prem is on the line and we have nothing to play for, Fergie will rest all the stars and we will see the Nani’s and even maybe Tosic , Gibson, Welbeck, Macheda, Fabio and others. This will make other relegation type teams cry bloody murder but that won’t bother Fergie. Nope, he will want the Ronaldo’s Rooney’s Carricks etc fully rested for Rome. So tomorrow is vital.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:10
@Grognard: We will not be in a position where we are forced to WIN at Hull because we only need ONE point from the last two games to secure the title, whatever the Dippers do!
May 15th, 2009 at 19:16
@Stephen: Not a problem mate. Seriously, don’t worry about it. I just wanted to clear up any misconception that I might have given.
May 15th, 2009 at 19:50
Fabianski and Silly (or Sylvester as the Gooners refer to him, although I think he bears more resemblance to the Tweety Bird) are in the XI for Arsenal tomorrow! I think Ronaldo & Co may just be licking their lips! And as for their sole threat Arshavin, we’ll more than take care of him!
May 15th, 2009 at 19:55
@Grognard: True. It’s too early to judge, but according to a programme run by Sky Sports — which is sending scouts to judge up and coming talent, and this is what they had to say on the boy: Click.
I’ll quote a part of it that is interesting:
He will join United next year, but is he ready for the Premier League? Simple answer is yes, very much so. As a 15 and 16 year-old his talent was there to behold, but in the last 18-months his body has filled out so that he is now more than capable of playing at the senior level.
But as he has grown he has not lost any of his natural skill or pace.
Which probably means, close control/pace is among his better attributes — which is good to hear. Let’s see how he makes it here though. I can’t see him make a major impact until well in to the 2010-11 season.
May 15th, 2009 at 20:10
@Red Ranter: I also read that Ljajic scout report on Sky Sports last week and he had one of the highest ratings I had seen for a young talent ‘cos most players who feature in that section aren’t usually more than good prospects (rated between 51-60) but Ljajic is “well on the way to the top” and thats a good sign at only 17! Let’s hope he turns out to be the real deal!
May 15th, 2009 at 20:16
@Red Ranter: From that pic on the Sky Sports site, he looks like Vidic’s teenage son or young kid brother! There’s certainly some facial resemblance there IMO, excluding Vida’s crooked nose obviously. (I hope he doesn’t read that last bit I said if he surfs this website!)
May 15th, 2009 at 20:23
@ Grognard – Thanks for info on Hargo, I’ve not managed to find any bits at all. Let’s hope it prolongs his career, can’t wait to have his energy and class back.
As for Saturday I just really think our boys aren’t up for it like they should be. We knew a win against Wigan would all but secure it, but lordy you wouldn’t have guessed from the first half! I’m worried that they think they’ve done it already, and that Arsenal will just show up, and we’ll go behind early, and just not be able to get back into it. I’m thinking a 2-1 to l’arse.
But hey, I’m happy to be proved wrong
May 15th, 2009 at 20:31
@Beachryan: Do you really think that, really? I hope you are joking.
May 15th, 2009 at 21:10
@Beachryan: Stop being a pessimist Beachy Bro – TRUE score is the other way around, United 2 – Le Arse 1. But we need to stick someone on Arshavins Arse! My main concern is that Rio isn’t fit to play, and Le Arse have tall players who can cause us a lot of jip in the box, with inswinging crosses. Our Center halfs need to cut out the giving of unnecessary corners and free kicks. But I think Fergie better pick the right MF too. We need battlers. Also don’t put Rafael in on Arshavin etc because it will truly be man against boy
.
May 15th, 2009 at 21:15
@Grognard: hes(tosic) been better then ronaldo on my FM09 season
hes got me 6 goals, and 5 assist in 17 appearances, not to bad for a left winger in his first season.
I swear, that game has some type of drug in it, it just sucks you in, i would imagine that the only time im off it tomorrow is when im watching the match!
May 15th, 2009 at 21:19
@Grognard: All I gotta say Grog, is Rooney and Ronnie better not miss the absolute number of chances they blazed over the crossbar in the Wigan game. I mean come on, I know Rooney does many a sky higher that Rugby league players would die for, but Ronnie is not usually that bad
. They missed absolute sitters 
.
May 15th, 2009 at 21:24
@Babyface: Aaaaaagh Babyface – shame on you Bro
.
May 15th, 2009 at 21:25
@Craig Mc: Mate Rooney has been superb this season, player of the season with Vida and Carrick running him close bro!!!
May 15th, 2009 at 21:33
@Craig Mc: Im not so sure, you put robinho in that arsenal team and arshavin in the city team, nothing would change, robinho would have the same type of form as arshavin at arsenal, arshavin would only play well in the cold, at home for city.
Rafael crapped all over robinho in the derby while rob was in his back pocket, and i think he could also handle arshavin.
I think rafael is a real big game player.
im waiting for it grognard, how i should never compare the russian maradona to the brazilian bentley
May 15th, 2009 at 21:39
@Dan: Dude regardless of what Robinho is an has done by the way has anyone seen his Mrs ooooooooooh horror show, but he has scored 15 goals this season and fair play to the money grabbing, bus riding little twat he has done better than I thought he would.
May 15th, 2009 at 21:43
@Stephen: Exactly, and rafael was able to keep him on his arsh crack…
May 15th, 2009 at 21:46
@Dan: Rafa is the new Cafu mate end of
May 15th, 2009 at 21:55
@Stephen: please, cafu was the first rafael!!!!!
May 15th, 2009 at 21:59
@Dan: Roberto Carlos the first Fabio then
May 15th, 2009 at 22:32
@Dan: I loved Fooball Manager (or another derivative) in my teens, but as a young adult, I swear that I’ll not touch it until I reach retirement time.
About Rafael: I can’t believe you rate him that much. His man – marking is truly terrible! I hope that he’ll progress in the department, but somehow (no offense) I don’t trust latin players to be the most cerebral…
And sorry but Cafu was the definition of the perfect full-back. He was reckless going forward, but he had bags of defensive skill, which I’m not sure Rafael has..
May 15th, 2009 at 22:37
@Stephen: No, roberto carlos was the first Dan!!! who in turn was the next fabio!
does that even make sense lol!
May 15th, 2009 at 22:40
@NicoQB: Rafa is a kid??? What are rating him on a World Cup winning Cafu, sorry mate his ability is there just give him chance, where was Beckham at his age?
May 15th, 2009 at 22:55
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1689/comedy/2009/05/14/1264643/goalcom-special-top-30-most-annoying-english-football
some of those will make you piss your self!
May 15th, 2009 at 22:56
@Stephen: struggling to make the bench at preston…
May 15th, 2009 at 23:30
I’m starting to think we’re actually going to sign Tevez on a free and we don;t want to mention it before the season’s out because of the huge disruption the announcement would cause. Fingers crossed, anyway.
May 15th, 2009 at 23:52
@Stephen: I agree with you, but my point is that if as a defender his marking just left a bit to be desired, I’d say ok, he can improve with time… But my impression is that his marking is, at times, shocking! And not many people underline this. I’ve grown on O’shea to tell you the truth and first and foremost just want my defenders to be able to defend!
We’ll just see in time…
About Tosic though, ok by most accounts he’s not impressed till now, but let us remember that many people were touting Vidic as a flop after his first season with us, and a few reserve games too… Look where he is now.
I think those 5 – 7 million pounds players we are buyoing will have their career decided by the injuries that our starting eleven will sustain. If Park, Ronaldo, Nani or Giggs get injured (just look at how crocked our RB position was) Tosic is definitely going to get a toss. If not, well I can see him loaned out…
Ljajic on the othe rhand will have all his time due to his age..
May 16th, 2009 at 0:04
@Red Ranter: I’m glad to see that they see pace in the boy because that was what I was uncertain about. Hopefully he will work out but at that age, we all know it’s like tossing a coin. 2 or 3 year under Fergie should help but then again, it has done nothing for Nani and will he even have 2 or 3 more year to benefit from Fergie or will he retire before he can really make something out of the lad?
May 16th, 2009 at 0:10
@Red Ranter: I found it interesting to read some of the other talent that have scouting reports done about them. Very interesting was their views on my two favorites Toni Kroos and Marko Marin. Man what I would give for those players on United? At least Bayern have Kroos, which makes me happen. I’m hoping Llajic is everything those guys are and can be. If so, we have someone special. As for Tosic, it looks like he was a toss in to the deal, and nothing more.
May 16th, 2009 at 0:11
@Nino: Anytime the potential ranking is 9/10 or 10/10, you have somebody who is very special.
May 16th, 2009 at 0:19
@Dan: Dan it’s just a game and it’s programmed by kids of which two of them I placed in the job when I was working as an IT Consultant. They know fuck all about the game and have idiots for project managers. Trust me when I tell you that if I was the Project Manager of the FIFA franchise with my IT background and with my knowledge of the game, you would have a game that would be truly legend. Some of the improvements in the game over the past few years is because of me telling some of the programmers I know about what really sucks.
They know a fair amount about the EPL, Spain and Italy but after that, their knowledge is just based on the readout charts they get from FIFA and magazines. In other words, players like Tosic are graded on guessing and potential based on a small one paragraph writeup. That is why quite often many players don’t look anything like they are supposed to look like. Christ I still get incensed over the poor art renditions for players like Huntelaar, Macheda, Tosic and others. Never take that game seriously. It’s a lot of fun but if you want accuracy based on hours and hours of meticulous research into teams, player, parks, coaches etc, nothing comes close to Football Manager. Those guys know their stuff.
May 16th, 2009 at 0:21
@Craig Mc: That last game was a wake up call from them. I seriously doubt that both will repeat their terrible performances.
May 16th, 2009 at 0:23
@NicoQB: Rafael is young mate and he has been fabulous when you take into account his age and very little experience. He has more than impressed me and as for his weaknesses, he will improve. My God, he’s not even 20. Evra is much older than him and makes far more errors and gets skinned a lot more. At least Rafael has an uncanny ability to recover when he gets skinned. Patience.
May 16th, 2009 at 0:25
@Grognard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949o1XDtt1k
Tosic’s goal in the Senior Cup final. I have no idea about his technique or intelligence but he can certainly strike a ball.
May 16th, 2009 at 1:10
I’m bored…
@All Answer this:
At their peak, who was the best player: Owen, Fowler or Gerrard?
May 16th, 2009 at 3:24
@michael: Big deal mate. It took a deflection. It means nothing and says nothing about the player’s ability. I personally think he is a stiff but I am hopeful that I am dead wrong.
May 16th, 2009 at 3:25
@NicoQB: Gerrard is a monster of a player. He’s massive like him or hate him.
May 16th, 2009 at 5:19
@Grognard: You should have watched some of the other videos linked from that one. I put that up because it’s in a United shirt. This kid can take a free kick if nothing else.
@NicoQB: Gerrard, easily. Owen has never scored 20 league goals in a season, and Fowler only did it (once) when there were 42 games. For strikers whose sole contribution to a match is finishing that’s poor.
In the same vein, a question: Ronaldo 07/08 or Best 67/68?
May 16th, 2009 at 8:29
@michael: Best is always the best. Although if you also had included Cantona 93/94, then I would pick the King.
May 16th, 2009 at 8:30
@michael: if you put best in the world of football today, hed look like a better version of joe cole.
If you put ronaldo in the 60s, he would be mentioned in the same breathe as maradona and pele.
Scratch that, he would be considered better then maradona and pele
May 16th, 2009 at 8:34
@michael: well thats not uncommon, the best strikers normally get 16-18 goals in the league, and i dont know where you got your stats from, but robbie fowler broke 20, twice.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:17
Michael – your comment regarding Ronaldo being better than Pele and Maradona is quite amusing. Whilst our Ronaldo is the best player in the world currently, he is no Maradonan or Pele. He is young, lets agree to debate it towards the end of his career.