Oct 13
On Ferguson and ref rage
This is going to be a delayed reaction to the Ferguson-Alan Wiley incident, but it’s international week, we have little else to talk about, so… sit tight, and read.
Ferguson’s rant, comparing fitness of European refs to butchers’ dogs, was, to put it mildly, genius. You don’t get people with the ability to draw such comparisons every day. Ferguson deserves to rant about absolutely anything just for the brilliance of his spontaneity. He could gone with ‘as fit as a fiddle’, or similar phrases bludgeoned to death by time. But no, he had to pick the butcher’s dog. So, for three days, people will spend time pondering over the culinary preferences of butcher’s dogs. Even a comic strip will be dedicated to the comparison.
But things don’t stop there. There is irony too. The same referee who had the ‘honour’ to share a joke or two with the manager a couple of weeks prior, got a dressing down of his lifetime. Well, dressing down is a euphemism; more like verbal lynching, if words could ever do that. It was enough to get half the world riled up like environmentalists at a newly opened plastic factory. The referees union reacted like displaced angry bees. Calls came from all quarters for the FA to ban Ferguson.
It was wonderful.
But then, something happened that was completely unexpected (well, for me at least). Ferguson released a statement of apology. Yes, the same Alex Ferguson; forgive me… Sir Alex Ferguson! Apologises! When was the last time the manager ever apologised for anything?
“Oh, I’m sorry for boycotting the BBC all these years. Time I apologise for not appearing on MotD all these years. What happened with my son was in the past. I’m sorry I termed them arrogant beyond belief. After all, they run on our tax money. Surely they have our interests at heart?”
“I would like to apologise to the fans of Manchester City, and the club. They are a great club, have the best fans and I should not have called them a small club with a small mentality. I never meant to call their credibility into question. Who am I to question them anyway!”
“I would like to make it clear that I’m sure Filippo Inzaghi was brought up well, and in a good environment. It was just a metaphor, and I didn’t really imply that he was actually born in an offside position. But, nonetheless, I think I will apologize for all the hearts I may have broken with my rant. Especially Inzaghi. I also did not mean to stereotype the Italians when I said they must have invented the smokescreen. I guess, too much obsessing about the Godfather can do that to you.”
“I apologise to Dennis Wise. I am sorry I said that he could start a row in an empty house. I made him look like a raging lunatic. I will revise my statement and say he could start a row with another human being. I mean, who in their right mind would start an argument in an empty house?! I didn’t know what I was thinking back then!”
“I would like to apologise to Beckham and Paul Ince. Incey, you are a great man. When I said you were a big time Charlie, I meant you were the man for the big games. And David, I’m sorry about the boot, I’m sorry I kicked you out of your dream club, and I’m sorry I didn’t approve of Posh. I mean she’s so graceful and lovely. You don’t see an iota of pretension in her. I was too young back then — you know, young men, hormones etc.; doesn’t make you think straight. You are welcome back whenever you’re bored of your American adventure — also, you know, World Cup year, and stuff…”
“I would like to apologise to Rafael Benitez for calling him arrogant, for his gesture against Blackburn. Sam is a good friend, but I think I must admit, I got too friendly with him to the point of not seeing the situation objectively. Also, I think Rafa was right about his ‘facts’. We always get favourable fixtures, and benefit from refereeing decisions. I don’t know why the union of referees are now calling for my ban though. I feel betrayed. Guess it’s all karma… er, where was I?”
See? You never see him apologising. Which is why when I saw the statement published on the Man Utd site, I had to take two steps back, wipe the coffee stains on my keyboard, and re-read that again. You hardly ever see a Ferguson apology, grudging or sincere. So you must spend time savouring the moment. When one looks back to the past, 20-30 years from now, all the United wins would certainly be looked at with fondness. But then, the trophies, the glory, the great players — they’re numerous. A Ferguson apology? Now there’s something unique and beautiful to cherish reading over, and over again.
Yet, you have the Mirror, the Mail, the Times, Jeff Winter, everyone you can think of, saying the apology ‘wasn’t sincere enough’. The gall of Jeff Winter to question his knighthood! Some people don’t please easy. And they say the British love irony.
Oh.
*
A more serious — and hence, less fun — piece on Ferguson’s rant will be up, maybe in a day. But then, it may also be too late and we’d be talking about the Bolton game by then. Oh well…
Related items from Red Rants:
- Can you lead Manchester United to the Premier League title?
- Ref shocker sees Barca through
- New Nike Five Live Advert
- Who Is Your Role Model?
- Chelsea vs Manchester United Match Report
Tags: Fun/Off the Record · Opinions/Columns
October 13th, 2009 at 8:39
1st!
October 13th, 2009 at 8:51
All those people are jealous of Sir Alex. They don’t get knighthood and they want to be a khight themselves killing people.lol I won’t even give them a piece of my heart. I don’t even know what they saying because who are they to give SIR Alex a teaching when they are going around scolding people instead of being rational and calm?
October 13th, 2009 at 8:56
He’s covering his tracks in an attempt to avoid a ban and to just receive the proverbial slapped wrist. The apology would have been through gritted teeth one suspects but he knows it is for the good of United.
Any talk of a coaching ban is certainly way off the mark though and this certainly isn’t the first time a Premier League manager has gone public with their disdain for a referee and I’m sure it won’t be the last!
October 13th, 2009 at 9:02
@Stephen Darwin: I think he’ll get a touchline ban. The FA will crumble under media scrutiny.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:39
[...] Red Rants looks at Ferguson and referees. [...]
October 13th, 2009 at 9:41
@RedRants: How was Rafael yesterday and who scored goals.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:51
He deserves it. He’s a legend but in this case he’s been an utter idiot. It’s one thing to deflect criticism from your players, but his attack on Wiley is petty, unfounded and immature. He will be punished and deservedly so.
I have absolutely no sympathy with the Gaffer. He’s screwed up not just in this instance, but now we’ll have the entire refs union against us. Massive, massive f*ck up from Fergie.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:52
@Beachryan: Agree. As I said, a more serious post on it will be forthcoming soon.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:22
‘Fit as a Butchers Dog’ was an advertising campaign for a dog food called ‘Butchers’ in the uk back in the 90’s…. for anyone who might not know. There was a song and everything.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:24
@Stephen Darwin: Especially because any ban would surely cover Liverpool away….
October 13th, 2009 at 10:31
Watched the first half of the reserves. It’s hard to tell much, because Oldham were pretty bad and there were a lot of young players out there. However, Obertan probably looked one of the two most skilled players on the pitch, along with Fabio who was awesome. Obertan is:
Tall and ridiculously lanky. Makes Welbeck look stacked.
Fast, and was good in the air against much shorter markers.
Good at dribbling – potentially very good.
A bit static when he doesn’t have the ball. Noticable when he wouldn’t offer Rafael any options on the right.
Confident – tried a few tricks and took his man on a few times.
Good at the throughball – didn’t see this one coming, but he twice sent Fabian Brandy (the next Defoe?!) through on goal with lovely weighted through balls.
And that’s it. Only played the 45 minutes. He was clearly too good for that level. Which he damn well should be
Rafael and Fabio are wonderfully bubbly – but can they defend?
Any q’s let me know, I watched pretty intently. Even though the camera angle was woeful.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:37
@despicable: Goals scored by Brandy, Hewson and then I stopped watching. Rafael was just as you know him (driven) but Fabio was the better player honestly.
Obertan started slowly but then showed some amazing touches. He has great awareness, but I am not convinced by his ability to have a go at defenders – then again, he just came back from an injury, so who knows?
Edit: agree with Beachryan, he’s too good for that level, but then so is R&F da Silva
October 13th, 2009 at 10:38
LOL!
Brililant article RR, cheered me up from a long day at school! Boy, I love Fergie!
October 13th, 2009 at 11:14
@Andrei: Good to hear that, I surely see Fabio pushing for a place after watching Refael do so last season, just i have doubt over his fitness, he does seem to break during the match, hope he lasts the next time. Fergie please give him a run…(atleast a match
)
October 13th, 2009 at 11:16
@Footy4Eddy:
So what to expect from Diouf in January?? No updates about him…
October 13th, 2009 at 11:20
The Inzaghi quip still makes me chuckle to this day. Pure comedy gold.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:28
“I apologise to Dennis Wise. I am sorry I said that he could start a row in an empty house. I made him look like a raging lunatic. I will revise my statement and say he could start a row with another human being. I mean, who in their right mind would start an argument in an empty house?! I didn’t know what I was thinking back then!”
ROFL!!
Best part, laughed out like fuck! Scared the sleepy people around me, I certanly gave them a shock! 
Ahh, Fergie…
October 13th, 2009 at 11:29
FIFA 10—> Eric Cantona
Stay tuned…
October 13th, 2009 at 12:12
@Beachryan: agreed on the camera angle, but i guess thats reserve team footie coverage.
on your point about Obertan looking on the skinny side, isn’t that the reason why Tosic hasn’t played at all? which means if Obertan is gonna get starts (looks likely) ahead of Tosic can we see the serb being shipped out sooner rather than later?
October 13th, 2009 at 14:39
Tosic is skinny and short with it. There is nothing on him. And we’ve only signed him to be Ljajic’s mate.
I don’t think Obertan is skinny as such, he just looks it because he is 6″1 or 6″2. He’s 20 isn’t he? Still time to bulk up.
October 13th, 2009 at 15:03
@Traverse: Doesn’t put too much pressure on Adem Ljajic then? Everyone seems to rave about theis lad but he hasn’t played at a decent level so nobody really knows how he will adapt, the goos thing is that he has the physique which will help him, with Tosic I don’t why we don’t just play him in a league cup game or stick him on the bench for a game there is no point in buying a player then not even give him a chance, he looked Ok in pre season.
October 13th, 2009 at 15:12
I agree with Stephen. I’ve seen Tosic a few times. He’s not amazing, but he’s also not looked at all out of place in the team, at least no moreso than some of the first teamers this season! I just don’t get why he can’t get minutes. It’s selfish of SAF. If he’s not good enough get rid of him so he can get his career going somewhere else.
And that’s utter tosh about Ljajic needing a friend. If that was the case we’d of just flown over his real friend to live in Manchester with him. Or hell, Ljajic can do it himself on the money he makes!
October 13th, 2009 at 15:25
@Beachryan: Vidic could have been some sort of mentor for the kid also and I agree paying that sort of money for a friend is plain ridiculous, I don’t think it is selfish of Fergie I simply believe he does not feel that he is ready he could get his career moving forward quicker if he gets some first team minutes under his belt, who knows.
October 13th, 2009 at 17:41
Superb satire there RR. A joy to read.
But as for Fergie, I sorry to say but the FA is going to throw the book at him and give him a two or three game ban because they cannot and will not let this go unpunished. It’s not so much what he did was terribly wrong, it’s that if unpunished, it sets a nasty precedent where every manager and player will have the freedom to criticize referees in a manner that crosses the line. I personally hate referees and would prefer technology to be the referee in games but we are not quite there with that yet. 99.9% of all referees and linemen are muppets and blind ones at that. I am sick and tired of watching every game and having two to three plays always get missed and doesn’t it seem of late that Man Utd get more than the norm in bad calls for off side. How many goals have we lost over the last few seasons because of linesmen having the off side flack stuck too high up their backsides? They need to stop pleasuring themselves and be more attentive towards the game.
As for British refs, they are by far the worst I have seen in Europe. The training and preparation courses they go through as well as any maintenance courses they take are clearly not good enough. It’s a tough job and they need to stop hiring chartered accountants, and geography teachers to do the job and actually put the job in the hands of men who look and feel like athletes. Former footballers would be a good idea as they are athletes who understand the game and who can keep up the pace. Just never allow them to referee games including their former clubs. But it doesn’t have to be former footballers, any fine tuned and intelligent athlete will do. I’m sick of seeing bookkeepers antique store owners and Urologists refereeing games of such importance. These are wimpy, nerdy non athletic people being asked to do the physical and mental job of an athlete. It’s insane when you think about it. Refereeing needs to become a full time job with full time training and preparation. This part time mentality of plucking somebody out of his normal 9-5 job and sticking him into the fire is ludicrous and it leads to these moments where a seasoned and highly intelligent manager like Fergie is forced to cross the line and point out something that although rude and wrong in tone, is very correct in reality. Not every referee is fat and out of shape, but all of them are ill suited for their job and bloody well bordering on incompetence. That is the sad realization of the situation and to deny it is just what I expect of the FA when they throw the book at Fergie. After all, they are not in the habit of taking creative and constructive advice and applying it to improve their overall product are they?
October 13th, 2009 at 19:11
Anyone else interested in the upcoming UEFA findings regarding gambling and corruption?
http://www.tribalfootball.com/uefa-release-shock-findings-gambling-gangs-378091
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=884729.html
October 13th, 2009 at 19:42
@[OPTI]Madschester United: The only real corruption I care about is actually committed by UEFA and FIFA themselves.
October 13th, 2009 at 19:54
@Grognard: I will have a more broad opinion on Fergie’s rant in a more serious article maybe in a day, but I need to point out an observation in your comment. Referees are full-timers in the Premier League. And they do undergo stringent fitness tests. I was listening to the Guardian podcast and I heard they are expected to clock 3000 meters in 10 minutes or something. And they have fitness tests. But, that said, I think Italian or German refs, for instance, look fit by and large — although it could be a gross generalization on my part.
October 13th, 2009 at 22:32
@Grognard: “How many goals have we lost over the last few seasons because of linesmen having the off side flack stuck too high up their backsides?”
Well, according to latest video tecnology called “recording”, I managed to find that out. Since January 2007 we have gotten a total of 31 goals wrongly disallowed for offside in all competitions.
We have also been wrongly allowed only 3 penalties, with 17 more clear fouls within the penalty area not given.
The refereeing is a fucking disgrace…
October 14th, 2009 at 0:31
@Red Ranter: OK seriously now RR, does Alan Wiley look like he can clock 3 feet in 10 minutes? The guy has got a ponch on him and is sticking his chest out due to fatigue when he is running. What they say and what they do I believe are two entirely different things. Refs should be young men. As soon as a grey hair shows up, they should get the sack.
As for Italian refs, their problem is they call everything. If you run by a player and a gust of air catches him, they will yellow card you for it. I do like german and Spanish refs though as they are strict but fair and they believe in letting the game flow.
October 14th, 2009 at 0:34
@Footy4Eddy: Now I would also like to see how many offsides decisions have gone our way and would like to know how many goals we scored that were off side and how many we gave up that weren’t? I think that information in Fergie’s hand would be pretty powerful evidence of a conspiracy buy refs and linemen to screw over United. I am that sure that the stats are that skewed in our favor as I believe we have been royally screwed over the years, especially Ronaldo.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:00
@Grognard: I do think that the FA just wants him to shut his pie-hole once and for all.
It could be a severe censure, but I doubt it. The double apology says a lot and has probably put him on his heels (the FA will relish this) for a good while.
A ban for him is the least of our problems and he knows it. The news is alight with the possibilities of his punishment, but who’s talking about the fact we nearly lost to Sunderland and on the day, most of our players looked mediocre in comparison of our mediocre counterparts??
It’s a good stroke of tactics, that at worst, has put the gaffer in the rough!!
October 14th, 2009 at 4:15
@Grognard: But in the unjust world of Football officiating, the poor decision always has to be balanced out with another poor decision!!
It’s like the refs, the FA, Uefa, and Fifa all know that it’s impossible to officiate the game effectively as it stands, right now. They shun the advances that should be implemented (GL technology, 4th official on the field {and not being a touchline monitor}) and sit as Judge, Jury and Supreme Being, hiding their discrepancies behind a wall of pontification!!
How dare they condemn the very people that give them the opportunity to make their parasitic living’- the very people that have beaten the long odds to achieve their status, and the ones who, at the slightest break of decorum, are demonized and dragged through a public “tunnel-of-shame”.
The tit-for-tat method of refereeing that has dominated the Footballing justice system, is about to expand itself into the playground of name calling, back-biting and tattle-telling.
Frankly, if Wiley cant take it on the chin, like a man, in a mans arena, then he is not “fit” to pursue this mans sport!!
October 14th, 2009 at 5:54
Great article. Really good… Nice to se some one has guts to write in favor of Gaffer….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6309675/FA-should-listen-to-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.-He-may-have-a-point.html
October 14th, 2009 at 5:59
The last line on the article gives a great punch….It says and I quote (copy)
“You’ll miss me when I’m gone”.
Really, everyone will…. Whether supporters or opponents everyone will….
It would be a sad day… Isn’t it????
October 14th, 2009 at 7:12
@Redrich: Fergie is smart but I think we are all giving him far too much credit assuming that this was a tactic to deflect criticism over a draw with Sunderland. So what about Sunderland. It’s not like the world ended or like we lost 1-4 at home to liverpool. That’s when he should have done this, not now. No mate, I don’t but it. He’s smart but is he that cunning a genius, well maybe but not this time. I think this is just a case of him opening his trap one too many times and he got a sock of manure shoved in it by the FA.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:13
@Redrich: Wiley was too out of breath to answer the criticism.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:26
@Grognard: I agree… Whatever people and media will try and come out with but I for one don’t think it was a well thought out raged (even though I don’t think it was totally wrong). I feel it was more of an impulsive rage by the Gaffer. I think we always make fun of the Mr Rafa ‘Fact’ Benitez but I think the way he had a go at Fergie was some what creditable. I mean it was ill timed but definitely it wasn’t ill mannered.I mean he was cool, calm and Collective having all the required incidents and numbers on hand.
I think if Gaffer need to talk anything about the Referring and Referees as such then he need to approach media that way rather than going in boiled typical Fergie manner (specially when we all know FA is in the look out of the reason to go after Man and try to Dance on the every available chance). I think he needs to understand that FA only has one agenda and that is to Go after him and United. So, he need to be more thoughtful then impulsive in my view. but, then I would reiterate that I don’t agree and don’t think he was wrong in what he said but he definitely messed it in the timing and type of the presentation.
P.S. By drawing the comparison with Fat Spanish Waiter (FSW) I don’t mean to say he is better in any way then our beloved Gaffer. That can’t happen on this earth. I won’t be saying that in my life time. So, please don’t misunderstand it.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:03
@Onkar: When he’s gone we will have to endure the yawn-fest that is a Mark Hughes or a Mad Rafa press conference. Jeez those guys can cure insomnia.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:31
@Onkar: I don’t think that Mad Rafa’s attack on Fergie was creditable. It may have been delivered in a cool, calm manner but it was full of flawed facts and accusations. It was pre meditated and no more than a personal, vindictive, vitriolic attack on Fergie and the club. He also called into question the impartiality of referees which is far more serious than what Fergie has done.
What punishment did he receive? Nothing, apart from a pat on the back fom the useless media.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:38
what’s Fergies gripe with BBC? How far back does it date? Why? Oh, I missed the boat on that one.
October 14th, 2009 at 9:07
On a side note, below are the major concerns for United which seem to get deflected. These are the concerns which United and Fergie should seriously look at if we are to win trophies:
1. Strikers / Wayne Rooney – a) Does not seem to have the focus he had at the start of the season. b) He can only move the ball to his right foot and defenders know that now and he is easier to mark. c) Seems to have lost a step for sure. d) If Rooney goes out of form or gets injured, I am really not sure if Berba/Owen are class enough to win us games!
2. GK – Oh well, enough has been said about Foster so not getting into it. COncern is what if VDS takes some time to get his touch back after the fairly long layoff?
3. Midfield – Too much reliance on golden oldies. It is a matter of grave concern if we desperately rely on a 36 year old to get us wins! Carrick needs to be SOLD as soon as Hargreaves surprises all of us. Silva needs to be bought in January. btw, once hargreaves returns, what would our MF look like? How will Fletcher fit in?
4. Defence – a) Many might not agree but both Ferdi and Vida seem shaky. If you have observed Vida closely over his last few games, he seems very unsure and shaky in and around the box. Ferdinand is looking bad for both club and country. Not sure if its the GK effect adding to it but Vida needs to get back to being that wall he was most of last season. b) i do not understand WHY Wes Brown is not being played at RB ??? Is is still not 100% fit?? He is way better than Oshea and Neville and much more experienced thatn Rafael.
Call me a pessimist, but i am a bit low on confidence on us winning the PL this season. I think we have been extremely lucky to be in the position we are right now in the table. Luck will run out eventually.
We talk about Chealsea being affected by the Africans Nations Cup, but if you see the schedule and the games Chelsea has during that time, they can easily beat those teams with the African gang around! Liverpool too can keep improving as they have shown in last 2 games. Torres is super deadly!
October 14th, 2009 at 10:26
@Cyclops-Red:
October 14th, 2009 at 10:51
@godzilla: I think you mean Carrick needs to be played. If he and Ando had started against Sunderland we’d have won that game.
October 14th, 2009 at 11:00
@godzilla: While I agree with the most of the point you have made I would still like to add something on the positive note on the issue.
Attack: Yeah!!! I have to agree if injured then rooney is a big blow. but, then we have to ask ourselves a simple question was he playing at his best for last few matches (i would say since Arsenal game)?? NO. Infact, he was looking more and more out of sorts. We all could see he was running out of gas and needed to have a break. But, knowing Fergie he would have never got one. But, then now he is on compulsory leave. Which may turn out to be a good thing for us in short run. Moreover, I feel that given the way Berba and Owen play they are best complementary pair that we have. So, they might turn out good given the glimpses of form Berba is showing.
Midfielder: totally agreed!!!
Defender: I agree! I really don’t know why Wes Brown is not playing. He is immense. Just a mosterous in his position. And definitely the best option we have for the RB position. But, as far as Vidic is concerned I think lack of decision making or shakeyness that we are seeing is more down to GK. I mean, I am damn sure that once we will have in touch EVDS back we will see old self of VIDIC. I mean the GK will always flow Confidence (or lack of it) to its defender. And thats what has happened. But, yeah Rio is concern. But, I think in Evans we have more than sufficient cover.
So, overall I am agreed that we have over achieved so far. But, I am not too concern as I am seeing we are keeping our place behind chelsea going forward. As I don’t think we will fall behind any of Arsenal and Liverpool. For me Number 2 finish is what we will get and its in tact.
October 14th, 2009 at 11:10
@Traverse: I agree, the only point I disagreed with godzilla about his Midfield analysis was about Carrick. i am having a feel that carrick is slowly but surely coming back to his strides since that Wolfberg game. But then again, why didn’t he start the game against Sunderland. A Fergie Mystery as always…..
October 14th, 2009 at 14:06
@Onkar: I think Rio has the potential to be a big concern. He needs a good run of games to get some form back. It is well known that back injuries can leave players to never be the same again and lead to other niggling injuries. As for Vidic has his head been turned by interest from Spain. He has won almost every thing he can win in England. Will he be the next to be sold? I honestly believe Uncle Malc would be tempted to cash in on a 30 million plus bid
October 14th, 2009 at 14:10
@Onkar: I agree. The one thing that would sort our midfield out would be a decision on the best formation and players and to give them an extended run. Constant rotation can not be good for form or confidence. I can not remember the last time our midfield was the same for two games on the bounce. Fergie has said he wants to give Rooney and Berba time to gel up front. Well what about the middle of the park getting time to gel
October 14th, 2009 at 16:57
I wouldnt be surprised if this will turn out to be the last season for Vidic in England. One of the reasons for the rumour about United showing interest in Gary Cahill maybe? How would a Cahill Evans combination look like?
October 14th, 2009 at 17:19
@godzilla: it seems la ligas solution to premiership dominance is completely buy out all of the top players from the top 4 clubs in England..Barca has been screaming Fabregas for a while and there as been as mentioned Vidic’s possible departure…Cahill to me is not a top 4 player….if anyone i like werder’s Per Mertesacker..i don’t hold bundesliga all that highly but i like this guy
October 14th, 2009 at 18:32
@Onkar: It doesn’t matter how you approach the media when your plan is to put down the referees. You are going to get zinged by the FA nonetheless. The FA has a zero tolerance for any criticism of them or their officials, so whether you are polite and calm or whether you are a raging lunatic is really immaterial.
October 14th, 2009 at 18:36
@Cyclops-Red: Managers will not get punished for criticizing each other. The FA couldn’t care less about their personal feuds with each other. What the FA is concerned with is the respect of the institution and policing of the league as a whole. They want to be treated with respect and they want their selected officials and referees to be treated with respect. That’s all that concerns them other than the really bad comment a player or manager might make about a city or fans or even the media for example. But those are very rare.
October 14th, 2009 at 18:41
@godzilla: I’m glad it isn’t just I who has noticed Rooney’s one dimensional footwork and dribbling as well as his loss of quickness and pace. Its not a massive loss , but it is noticeable and it’s making a very big but negative difference in his game.
Also, something is wrong with Rio and i think he is not even close to being 100% fit. His back and his leg are both bothering him in my opinion. As for Vidic, he is being forced to worry too much about covering for others and does not feel as composed back there as none of the back four feel composed with Foster in goal. EVDS should help to calm him down but he still needs to get on the same page with Evra on his left and either Rio or Evans on his right.
October 14th, 2009 at 18:51
@RedTan: I seriously think that Fergie should consider selling Rio next summer. If Barca or Rio are interested in him, sell him now while he still has value. Evans is ready to play and if the rumors are true and we are looking to sign this young CB who is playing in Italy. I love Rio but Fergie needs young men back there that can move and can be counted on. Rio is still fairly dependable but the injuries are slowing him down and are forcing him to miss games as well. There comes a time when a difficult move has to be made. And I seriously doubt he has the same loyalty towards him that he has for Neville, Scholes and Giggs. If another team is dumb enough to spend the kind of money to pry him away, we should take that money provided it does not end up in the Glazer’s pockets. Rio is getting up there and in the past Fergie never hesitated to get rid of Pallister, Bruce, Stam etc when he felt their time was up
October 14th, 2009 at 18:55
@RedTan: No manager worth his salt in gold is going to stick to one formation because that would make the club far to easy to predict and counter. As for players, it’s a very long season and so the necessary evil of the modern game is some degree of squad rotation. You cannot get around it unless you are not playing in any cup tournaments. Look at Villa last season. O’Neill went with the same bunch every week and they totally ran out of gas in the second half. He never had the player depth to compete for a top four place. Fergie knows what he’s doing. His only fault is his tactics are dull and boring and he plays certain players who in my opinion aren’t good enough to suit up for Wolves or Cardiff City.
October 14th, 2009 at 18:59
@RMJ: Mertesacker is a great CB but he is as slow as molasses. Against ordinary clubs he looks great. Then go put him up against a Barcelona or Spain or Russia when he is playing for Germany and although he is good, he is susceptible to those clubs players with pace. People say I have a bias for German players and although that might be true, I am also honest. Mertesacker is a great player but not quick enough for the English game. He would be outstanding for us in the air though and is pretty decent as an attacking CB as well. Still, not what I would be looking for.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:01
I just watched Germany squeak out a tie with Finland. They were just going through the motions as they had already qualified, but seriously, I don’t think there is a more useless slab of meat in all of world football then Mario Gomez. This guy is useless at the international level.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:35
@Grognard: I am not saying play the same team week in week out, that would be suicide when you can expect to play 60 plus games in a season. But at this early stage why not let players gel and get a feel for playing together. We have so many midfielders and I feel that the lack in quality and confidence from some of them comes from a lack of playing time.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:45
First thing. Rio must not be sold. He must be given time to breathe and get back his fitness. He like Rooney have been abused by Ferguson. I mean has he ever really had a break since Ruud’s last season? No. Same as the Dark Knight Wayne. We have Wes Brown and Jonny Evans who can deputise in the meantime. Onto the midfield. Some intelligent guy posted something to the tune of the midfield being given time to gel. I know Rafa has been labelled the Rotater but our own manager is far ahead of him in that dept. Far far ahead. Sorry but it’s the truth. All central positions need a constant pairing. That’s why strikers need to be given a continuous run of games same as CBs. The same applies to the midfield and esp that dept because that’s where a team is driven and operated. I mean the central midfield. Today it’s Fletcher and Carrick. Next game it’s Anderson and Scholes. The following game Giggs,Anderson and Fletcher. Then some odd day you have Gibson thrown into the mix. Where will the consistency come from? Some ppl have fun on matchday trying to predict Ferguson’s midfield but I think that is the real big problem with our team. That’s why I have no doubt that come end of season we won’t have left second gear. Not since the majestic Carrick and Scholes partnership in 06-07 have we played any good. Grinding out results has become our new legacies and ppl will champion anything Ferguson does. “That’s the mark of champions”. No. Champions should play well and win. We can’t afford to watch a whole season of grinding out results like Chelsea. It costs a lot of money to support United so we deserve 6th gear football from the word go. Make a decision on ur two constants in midfield, stick with them and stop trying to please everyone. Right now I’d go for Anderson and Fletcher. Give them time to get an understanding of each other and BEGIN to improve. Scholes is excluded not in any way due to his form of late which has been good if you ask me but because he might not be here next season so we might as well deal with the future. Carrick simply because Fletcher has become an immoveable object and playing them together is counterproductive imo as the have kind of similar roles. Give each player a role and function that suits them best and NEVER depart from that principle unless ABSOLUTELY necessary eg massive injuries with zero replacements.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:46
@Grognard: I think Barca are more interested in Vidic to be fair. Vidic and Pique could be very nice. I think Rio is one of the best defenders in Europe and a few bad games do not make a bad player. I just worry a little about the back injury. We could find we have a world class defender who can only give us 20 to 30 games a season. But only time will tell and to be fair that would not be the end of the world if Evans can get over his injury problems. I do worry if we cash in on Vidic though. If we cash in on Vidic alarm bells will ring loud as another world class player will be sold of. I don’t believe the spin and propaganda fed through the media if we had wanted to keep Ronaldo and had the funds we would have kept him I have no doubt about that.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:52
@Jay wire: Spot on. I have given up on predicting our team selection. Yes players need rest but to be in one game and out the next (regardless of performance) is not good for the players. Why impress if you are out the next game any way. I honesly beleive Anderson and Nani would be further along if they had regualr game time
October 14th, 2009 at 19:53
FOSTER in England squad.
I hope he performs majestically but I fear he will flop and lose both england and united spot come today.
October 14th, 2009 at 19:58
@godzilla: according to you. Our ENTIRE team is ready to collapse unless we buy Villa???? That’s not pessimistic that is unrealistic.
Fergie would know what to do and would not field a team that could not challenge for honors. That is why I find your arguments too simple and chicken-little-esque. (“the sky is falling…”)
Do not WORRY, fergie is to make it all better.
FYI: Demolition of Bolton coming up this Saturday.
October 14th, 2009 at 20:02
@[OPTI]Madschester United: The sky is no falling but the bank balance is
October 14th, 2009 at 20:03
@Grognard: I agree that individual feuds aren’t the concern of the FA but what I found disturbing about the Spanish waiter’s comments were his insinuations regarding referees impartiality. Fergie has, to paraphrase, called Wiley a “fat bastard”. On the other hand Benitez questioned the integrity of the referees. I think Fergie was wrong to go public and maybe should have gone through more private channels if he questioned the fitness of a referee(s) but Benitez moreorless accused them of giving favourable decisions at OT.
That in my view is far worse than Fergie’s misdemeanor. Also I don’t think he presented his “facts” in a particularly coherent nor well researched manner.
October 14th, 2009 at 20:06
Grognard- I agree. It is a very necessary part of team sports to rotate. But geez. That doesn’t mean EVERY single week you put a new team on the field. We have not played any combination in midfield twice this season. What is that all about? Look at every single top team in Europe and esp those that play well and look at their consistency in midfield. Barca. Xavi,Iniesta and Yaya. Forgive me all for using Chelsea as an example but they have Lampard Ballack and Deco. Even Liverpool have Gerrard and Mascherano as their go to guys. The same goes for 99% of football teams in the world. Only here at United do we play different teams every week. It’s a useless and ultimately fatal “tactic”. I’m sick and tired of Ferguson’s techniques. We’re United, we shouldn’t be grinding out results. We win in style. That’s why we are the most expensive club to support. Screw this rotation counterproductive rubbish. I know some will say “oh it’s because we don’t have great players blah blah blah” but how will we know if they are never played consistently. This over cautious football that Ferguson is playing so he can get his last European Cup is costing players’ development and entertainment. And for the last time can they find Mike Phelan another job. Make him an honorary director for all I care or even chairman. As long as he stays as far as possible from the team
October 14th, 2009 at 20:22
@Jay wire: And you know exactly what Phelan does?? With him as a number two we have won the league twice, Champions League and a League Cup, maybe because he isn’t Michele Phelano.
And who’s development is being affected, if you say Nani and Anderson they are holding themselves back with their poor performances, easy yo blame everyone else but the players.
October 14th, 2009 at 20:26
Berba scored a hat-trick…
October 14th, 2009 at 20:31
Well, Berba has scored a hat-trick and Nani have given Portugal the lead… Well done lads!
October 14th, 2009 at 20:35
@[OPTI]Madschester United: He starts! Had nothing to do so far.
October 14th, 2009 at 20:52
@Stephen: Young players need games to gain experience and improve decision making. Both Nani and Anderson are incredibly skillfull players who both have bags of potential. The problem they have is poor decision making and to improve decision making you need to play games
October 14th, 2009 at 20:53
@AndyCR7: Flood gates open?
October 14th, 2009 at 20:54
Stephen- I’m not sure which Champions League you’re talking about really that he has won us. But for me he has a huge part to play in our baffling tactics and ideas which are rubbish by United’s standards. I may not know much but I know Ferguson is not a great tactician. Paul Ince made mention of that but lauded him as a great motivator and man manager. That means ppl like CQ and Phelan take a lot of the technical burden. Now. Have we played more than 10 games of great football since last season? I don’t think so. Nani and Anderson are holding themselves back by themselves. Right. That’s quite accurate since being played inconsistently benefits a player’s development. Or being constantly played out of position and being asked to take roles you’ve never taken in your life. That’s also clearly beneficial. I mean the pinnacle of it all was when Ferguson personally with his own lips, tongue and voice admitted that they didn’t knowing where or how to play Berbatov throughout last season. And we had to go thru the usual useless analyses of some fans saying he is going to be a flop. When he is being played incorrectly. Same as Anderson whom I already chronicled concerning the technical crimes committed against him. Yes we have won titles but our game has suffered. I can’t even begin to mention the points on Mike Phelan’s failures in the technical dept. 1st. Of all the top teams we’re the only one team which cannot hold on to a football 4 more than 60 seconds. That’s technical stuff. I remember in 06-07 and 08 also we could play top teams and match or better them in possession. He came because of his technical aspects but I have only seen us regressing in that area. Mind you I’m not saying that Ferguson is not responsible because quite frankly I think all the technical rubbish is down to him. But then Phelan doesn’t seem to have a clue either. Ferguson has never been any good in that dept that’s why we had other ppl taking care of it as assistants. Phelan has not helped
October 14th, 2009 at 20:55
Owen Hargreaves is a pundit on ITV’s commentary on England vs Belarus. Weird German/Canadian/Manc accent.
October 14th, 2009 at 21:05
@Stephen: We won the champions league with CQ as the number 2. Under Phelan we won the league once and a league cup.
October 14th, 2009 at 21:11
@Jay wire: Anderson is simply not very good and is simply not United quality, Nani has ability but isn’t very bright and his decsion making is awaful, both player brought in bu CQ, cheers for that. Evans has been played in and out and has been superb.
You cannot blame Phelan for the players inept performanes they have not stepped up to the plate quite simple, do we pat Phelan then on the back for the clean sheet record of season if we in turn blame him for the techinical stuff?
And costing players their development by trying to win the Champions league is ridiclous, I would take a Champions league tommorrow and wave happily good bye to Anderson, we me it would be double delight.
October 14th, 2009 at 21:21
@Traverse: So that is how we should have him play… that way he will do nothing wrong.
October 14th, 2009 at 21:22
@Johnsom33: considering that phelan has only been here one season, I find such a haul quite good. In fact, phelan has 100% league championship record while queiroz is much lower than that.
Statistics are tools of persuasion.
October 14th, 2009 at 22:34
@[OPTI]Madschester United: How does it feel being wrong?
October 14th, 2009 at 23:00
@Dan: What’s the point of asking a question you clearly know the answer to?
October 14th, 2009 at 23:36
ROLL ON SATURDAY!
October 15th, 2009 at 1:48
Congrats to foster for keeping a clean sheet today. He was recalled late, yet he was ready when capello came calling. I’m hard on him when he fails, so I have to be fair to the Nan when he does his job well. Say what you want about his ability, but it’s hard to questionn his character.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:53
I’m still in shock about Charlie davies. I don’t know how many yanks are on this board but Davies and Altidore were starting to firm a deadly partnership up front for the US. Hopefully his career isn’t over.
October 15th, 2009 at 3:44
@RedTan: To get in the starting eleven you need good decision making. Sucks for them!!
October 15th, 2009 at 3:46
@Johnsom33: Yeah, this is really bad news for the US team, and a tragedy for him personally!
I wish him well!!
October 15th, 2009 at 3:49
@Johnsom33: I saw little bits of the game, but I did see him make a terrific save at about 60mins.
I wonder how he’d do against a more formidable foe. Like Portugal, shall we say!
October 15th, 2009 at 3:51
@Red Ranter:
October 15th, 2009 at 4:00
@Dan: good. seeing him fail on international level would be embarrassing.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:18
@Jay wire: We play well when we pass the ball accurately, but of late we are not doing this!
It’s not that the players are not capable of it and struggle to aim the ball in the direction that they intend, but it has much more to do with the fact that the players do not have a good chemistry with one another!
It’s true that by rotating the players (and especially the MF) it will take a long time for the melding of minds become second place, and in a way you do expect some of this toward the front end of the season.
What worries me is that, although we have oodles of talent in every department of the team, this talent has not been picked to be compatible with each other.
The ideal example is Rooney with Berbatov. Both great in their own right, but neither one has a contributing asset for the others success. Rooney likes to poach around the edge of the box and Berbatov likes to play even deeper than that – it’s like we have a 4-4-2-0 formation when these two play together.
The MF is another example of this, with a predominantly flanking attack that really has no one to aim at when (and if) the manage to send the ball into the PA.
Centrally we do not have a dominant presence, and because of this the pairing is always hit or miss. Depending on who we play, the CM has the looks of a makeshift unit that is trying to defend more than it’s trying to attack.
My point is, that closer attention needs to be paid to accumulating a symbiotic pairing here or there, perhaps at the risk of sacrificing talent, but in the best interests of the very good talent we have!!
October 15th, 2009 at 4:48
@Grognard: You could be right about Rio. His frailties could well be beginning to show. The fact that he has missed so many games in the last 8-10 months is worrying and you sense that he could be hiding the fact that he’s still hurting now.
His focus has always been a question throughout his career, a lapse of concentration here and a moment of unreal casualness there and we always knew that we were dealing with a basket case. But now we are dealing with a 31 year old basket case that has a very sore back!!
October 15th, 2009 at 7:37
@RedTan: I couldn’t care less if Barca prefer Vidic. He’s not available. Rio is nearing 30 and that is always a good time to dump a player. Especially if he has started to show signs of wear and tear. It’s not personal, it’s only business. I like Rio a lot but he needs to be sold now while he still has value before he really starts delivering diminishing return.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:38
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Foster always performs majestically. Like a real queen he is.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:40
@Cyclops-Red: Rafa got away with his tirade because he only offers FACTS. The FA cannot fight FACTS.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:45
@Jay wire: I totally agree. I think Fergie takes it to excess but it’s because he is obsessed and consumed with winning the Champions League. He generally saves his best for those games (unless it’s an easy opponent. He needs to let the lads play and get into a groove more.
I also have to ask this serious question of Mr. Ferguson. For all his brilliance and success, it really confuses me how Rooney can generally score a goal a game for England and Berbatov can average two a game for his country but both struggle to find the net for United. Is it possible that maybe, just maybe Fergie has them doing too much and has them playing out of position way too much. Berba scoring three for Bulgaria just made me so jealous, mad and frustrated all in one today. Happy for him though as it should add to his confidence.
And I totally agree with you about Fergie’s over cautious tactics are for him to win that bloody European Cup. It’s sickening
October 15th, 2009 at 7:49
@Cyclops-Red: That’s why I love him so. He has three perfect dialects inside of him. Canadian eh!, He sprechens Deutsch, das ist sehr gut,
and he is MANC to boot. For me that is perfection.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:51
@Red Ranter:
Very nice RR.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:58
@Redrich: Thats right, he’s 31. For some reason I thought he was 29. He is getting up there and it showed against Bellamy after he screwed up, he just couldn’t keep up with human scum bag. Bellamy is a fast scum but Rio has always been able to keep up with the best of them. Well at least he used to. It’s also too late to give him the captaincy. I mean I really do not relish our chances with him out there at the age of 33 or 34. His time has come. One of the all time greats and a fantastic servant but he plays a position where there is zero room for mistakes. Many great players have been sold at this stage in their careers and Fergie is not a stupid man. He is getting a bit too sentimental though as he has allowed both Scholes and Neville to play well past their expiry date. As for Giggs and EVDS, as long as they perform the way they have, they can stay until they are 65.
The number one reasons why I want us to sell Rio now is because he is still worth a lot of money and that money could got getting us players we really need. And secondly, Jonny Evans is ready and should not be forced to wait for long. However, before Rio is let go, we must secure Vidic to a new long term contract to silence the Barca;s and other teams. We cannot afford to lose Vida.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:05
We all wanted fergy to buy a big name to marshall our midfield, I rem we all came up with names essien, de rossi, jus but to name a few. I also was a member of that bandwagon. Fergy dint bring in anyone because he knew something we all dint know, Owen Hagreaves anyone? Fergy new this guy will be back sooner than we all thoguht, so lets all give him tym to see if his plan works. He has always proved us wrong.
With hagreaves coming back, then carrick and anderson getting better, we got the midfield that won us the champions league. of course except minus The slave.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:46
@Grognard: This precisely what is going on in my head for a while now.. Rooney and Berba always seems to play better with there national side then what they do for Man UTD. To add to that what frustrate me more is the fact that even Tony is scoring goals for his country (I think 2 in last 2 games), and the man just can’t score even in one on one situation as well (I know he is winger and his job is to create but then any player playing is expected to score in one on one situation which he just can’t).
I don’t know whats the matter??? I mean has to do with the level of opponents?? or Has to do with tactics?? or The most vital is down to lack of quality in the midfield which is not providing the service to striker asking them to do too much????
I mean we all know what Rooney and Berba are capable of doing and they are doing it at a different level but just can’t click it for us… Is it down to Gaffer????
October 15th, 2009 at 9:55
@Onkar: Do ypu really believe the Bulgarian manager is better than Fergie??? Of course not Bulgaria played Georgia, who are awful, Englands group were poor hence Rooney’s goals, he has scored 7 times for us this season also.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:57
@Grognard: I have always been supportive of this Rio argument. I mean, I have no problems if he is getting sold for handsome amount of money (provided that the money is reinvested in the players and not end up like Ronaldo money did). Two reasons for it:
1. The man is reaching his sell by date. Don’t get me wrong. He is still a quality and his presence makes Vidic looks better. But, he is reaching the age where further development is just not practically possible (I know (Sir) Ryan Giggs has defined this law again but still he is an exception to the law). He is also suffering from the back recurring back injury which is keeping him out of considerable no of matches as well.
2. The man is still worth lot of money in the market so you would get good amount money which can be reinvested to buy some quality stuff.
Not to forget we already have Evans to take up his place, who is looking better and better every time he plays. He also forming good understanding with Vidic. We also have the Junior Vidic (Monster) aka Ritchie DeLeat who can be a very capable understudy to Vidic-Evans Partnership as well.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:05
@Grognard: I agree on this Captaincy issue as well.
I won’t support the case of Rio as a Captain. Not because he doesn’t deserve it but mainly because his Age and his injury record. I mean very frankly I don’t want our team to play without captain season after season just because the Captain is injured and not playing which is the case with Rednev.
I would like to some one from next generation. I am definitely not sure about the name. But (if fit which is unlikely) my choice would have been OH. But in absence of that who???
May be popular choice Rooney (provided that he will start acting bit more responsible) or if he can keep up his development and progress going then even Fletch, what say guys???
But, in absence of OH case my personal choice would be ‘Monster VIDIC’….
October 15th, 2009 at 10:14
@Stephen: No where I said that He is Better than Fergie. Not in wildest dreams also I would say that. But then, it is an open secret that Man UTD management was in big “Dilemma” about where Berba is best suited for. And I questioned Fergie’s current tactics (which we all are either unhappy or not sure about) and not Fergie as a manager.
Secondly, I also questioned about the supply (or lack of it) these two striker get from midfield which we all know is not enough and thats why keep dropping deep and very very deep to take the ball.
Thirdly, even when Rooney was not scoring goals on consistence basis for us he was doing the same for England and we all were wondering that how can he manage to score for England. We have to agree that in recent times Rooney is definitely playing better for England than for Man UTD.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:21
@Grognard: It was good to see him up and about. I’d forgotten what he looked like. Here’s hoping he makes a complete recovery.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:41
@Onkar: I think Rooney has been superb for us this season and Berba is certianly improving, Wazza is also Englands most important player but in a Group of a poor Croatia, Ukraine, Andorra, Kazakstan and Belarus it isn’t hard to look good.To say he wasn’t scoring goals consistantly bar this season could be the fact the in the past the side has been set up around ronaldo now it isn’t but he did score 20 last season 18 the season before and 23 the season before that coupled with he has been played wide left numerous times that is not bad, plus he adds more to the team than just goals.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:00
@Stephen: I dont know what peoples view is, but I thought Rooney was fantastic playing as part of a forward 3. The thing with Rooney is he is not a consistent goal scorer and I dont think he ever will be. The thing with Berba is that I think he is a fantastic footballer I just don’t think he is the player for us at this moment in time. He seems to be playing to deep, not as deep as last season where he spent most of his time in the midfield, but he still playes a little to deep. The thing that confuses me is why he is doing this. Is he being told to play that way or not being told to push up more
October 15th, 2009 at 11:07
@RedTan: Players drop deep mate simply because they want to be involves it is their nature, a lot of players want to play in the hole.
Berba is a superb player and personally I think he looks good so far this season, but he needs to score more goals hopefully it will come.
Rooney is good in a forward three, but sometimes does go missing there I like him through the middle as we really do not bar Owen have a natural goal threat.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:07
@Stephen: I agree about the point that he adds more to the team then just goals. Thats why may be I said that if he can be more responsible then he is one of the contenders for the Captaincy. But then, same can be said about Berba as well. But then again he is considered as a flop. I mean, we need Rooney to fire in goal scoring department more than anything else. Because, I always felt (may be debatable) that in term of sheer class, ball control, passing, technique and vision Berba is way ahead of Rooney. And thats why we need Berba to play behind Rooney and Rooney needs play more in the box attcking the balls coming in rather than receiving them outside box.
And if he is the one to bail out Man UTD then he need to be 25 Goals+ striker and let Berba do the Job of creation and scoring…
Till then for me he won’t be some one who he made out to be….
October 15th, 2009 at 11:08
@Stephen: Everything said and done though I have to agree with you that He is the Most Important player for England and Probably for Man UTD as well……
October 15th, 2009 at 11:14
@RedTan: The reason as I see for him playing deep is lack of supply from our midfield. I mean our midfield in most of the matches was almost absent. They just put square ball to winger and then wingers will either dribble that ball to the death (NANI) or just whip it across not caring whether the ball will reach its intended target (Tony) . In such scenario, Not only Berba but Rooney as well needs to come deep, more deep, more and more deep to receive the ball and then take onus on themselves to start new attack….
May be that can be the reason which be cited for Berba coming deep…
October 15th, 2009 at 11:14
@Onkar: Interesting point, so if Rooney is not banging them in would you keep Berba in the hole and replace Rooney with Owen for example. The classic little and large strike combo
October 15th, 2009 at 11:19
@Onkar: Also Rooney has the pace to play off the shoulder, the Premiership is really designed around pace hence really maybe wy Berba has struggled with us as we are essentially a counter attacking side, with pace out wide.
Rooney is United through and through and when people criticise him and talk about other players it makes me smile and shake my head, he is a top player and one of the best in the world and I would not sell him for anything he knows the club the culture and what is expected of him.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:24
@Onkar: We need our wide players to perform, Nani is frustrating to say the least and simply wants to be Ronaldo, Valencia seems in awe of the place so far and does the safe option, Park is a worker but has no class, Giggs is now more of a centre mid, Tosic simply has not had a kick so will reserve judgement these players need to perform and so far they haven’t or have not had the chance to.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:49
@RedTan: In fact, I always advocated one thing that always play Berba just of the main striker in the hole. The reason for that is his vision, range of passing and ability to bring other players in the play (the best recent example was his through ball to Carrick against wolfburg which he missed one on one). He probably is the only player on our team sheet who can put those through balls in.
So, what if Rooney will start banging goals like classic No 10. play Rooney up top with Berba on the heels of Rooney. When you need to give Berba Rest then for those mathes only use Rooney’s ability to play in whole and use owen up top who is automatic choice. And Rooney needs to rested (not often you say that) play owen up top with Berba just behing him in whole.
For me this the way you can use all three effectively. Secondly, as Stephen has rightly pointed out Berba is not the quickest so you can’t expect him to sprint into the box meeting the passes. So thats why you have to play him in a position where he will be the passer of the ball rather than the receiver of the ball. And we all know he is one man who more often then not will find the destination with his pass no matter how congested the area. Then use that ability……
October 15th, 2009 at 11:55
@Stephen: No one want Rooney to be sold bro… I mean NO ONE. I am sure all those Man UTD fans who are not Rooney fans would also hate to see him going or even talk of him going. The whole point that is going on is how to fit in two rather three incredible striker that we have on our book in the eleven so that they replicate the form that they are showing for there country. Thats all……
I repeat “NO ONE WILL EVER QUESTION ROONEY’S COMMITMENT AND WOULD WANT ROONEY TO LEAVE MAN UTD.”
P.S. Sorry RR for all caps but I thought I was a very very very important statement.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:01
@Stephen: See thats precisely what I am trying to to say. The one reason I see due to which our striker are not performing the way they should is down to our midfield. I mean till GIGGSY has just carried out the burden of 1/4 of the season. But, then others need to step up which they are not doing with an exception of Fletch of course.
The list you have pointed out says it all. All the midfielders you can add Carrick and Ever present of this list Ando to it as well. What it makes is it pushes your strikers further back as they know that if they stand where they should be (in and around opponents box) ball would never reach them in 90 mins.
We seriously need to add at least one quality CAM in January who will cut at the top level immediately like Arshavin did last year for Gooners…
October 15th, 2009 at 13:16
Boy, ain’t I glad the international fixture is over.
October 15th, 2009 at 13:20
Onkar, problem is not lack of CAM in our team, I think once SAF starts playing somebody like ando in his right position then our strikers will get required service, I mean, ando is not an essien – sque type of player. I classify his style as that of ronaldinho, jus behind the strikers. As much as i’d like to have silva david in our ranks. Lets first give ando time
October 15th, 2009 at 13:29
@Man Utd Jaluo: Anderson is a box to box midfielder, he cannot shoot so is not a Ronaldinho style player, he also offers no trickery.
October 15th, 2009 at 13:30
@Onkar: Like who? Davis silva is the only player potentially available and I think he would prefer to stay in Spain.
October 15th, 2009 at 14:35
Berbatov has scored in the fatherhood department this morning with a healthy baby girl. A pretty productive few recent weeks for him. Congratulations, Dimitar!
October 15th, 2009 at 15:15
Anyone here on googlewave?
October 15th, 2009 at 15:32
fergie sends get well card/letter to Standard Liege midfielder Steven Defour…news out of the blue…apparently he was on his way here before being cursed by the metatarsal…and valencia is desperate for cash…come on fergie get both Davids
October 15th, 2009 at 16:26
Every one watch this from Ljajic against Shakhtar two weeks ago in the champions league. Im tooooooooo excited about this player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvBnZ96I7Wk
October 15th, 2009 at 17:12
fellow ranters,
it is hard following this united team without saying the odd ridiculous thing.
here are a few harsh realities. i could give a monkeys if you disagree. deep down you know i am right
1. honestly i think its time fergie steps aside. i think this is a true transitional period. why not let the next manager comes in and builds the team he wants.
2. wayne rooney is a gem, he is united through and through. but when he first signed he was alot more dangerous- alot more! faster, angrier, ruthless. and he has been deteriorating ever since. i still think he is our most complete player, but is he trully effective for us. no!
which brings me to our second point
2. wayne rooney cannot work w
October 15th, 2009 at 17:12
fellow ranters,
it is hard following this united team without saying the odd ridiculous thing.
here are a few harsh realities. i could give a monkeys if you disagree. deep down you know i am right
1. honestly i think its time fergie steps aside. i think this is a true transitional period. why not let the next manager comes in and builds the team he wants.
2. wayne rooney is a gem, he is united through and through. but when he first signed he was alot more dangerous- alot more! faster, angrier, ruthless. and he has been deteriorating ever since. i still think he is our most complete player, but is he trully effective for us. no!
which brings me to our second point
2. wayne rooney cannot work w
October 15th, 2009 at 17:14
We have Anderson, Scholes, Giggs, Hargreaves, Fletcher, Gibson, Possebon, Carrick and Ljajic coming in Jan, I really cannot see us buying a midfielder in the window, actually I cannot see us buying anyone in Jan.
October 15th, 2009 at 17:15
@mike: Besides his goal and his close ball control, I find him pretty poor in this clip. His passing and shooting is weak.
Is he on loan or waiting for work permit?
October 15th, 2009 at 17:20
@[OPTI]Madschester United: On loan. I was not to blown away my self. It is good he is getting champions league experience.
October 15th, 2009 at 17:40
@[OPTI]Madschester United: actually the lad plays more like a winger than central midfeilder..he is all over the place but he has good close control and incredible first touch as someone mentioned before…i think the europa league is a good place to get some much needed experience before he comes here…
October 15th, 2009 at 17:52
DId any one know of our interest in belgian national CM Steven Defour?? I think he is going to be scholes’ or anderson’s (J/K eddy
or am I… ) replacement:
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5629476,00.html
October 15th, 2009 at 18:31
Hi,
On the Telegraph site, your site has been featured in the top 10 Manchester United sites. Well Done! 10th this year, which does include the Rom, the ManUtd official site etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6316489/Top-10-Manchester-United-websites.html
Just wanted to say well done! Hopefully one day my site will appear there. (clicking on the name will direct you)
October 15th, 2009 at 19:12
@Onkar: It’s not so much that they play better for their countries than they do for United, I don’t agree with that. But they do score more for their countries than they do for United/. It’s about their role for our team and how Fergie uses them that is the issue. Without Ronaldo around, he really needs to open things up and free Berbatov to be more of an attacking presence. Rooney needs to stop roaming the field so much and concentrate on being a striker and building a partnership and understanding with Berba.
October 15th, 2009 at 19:16
@Stephen: Georgia is no worse than Sunderland or half the teams in the Prem mate. It’s a case of tactics and the Bulgarian manager playing Berbatov in his proper role. Of course he’s not smarter than Fergie but then again sometimes Fergie is known for outsmarting even himself. When it comes to Berba and Rooney, Fergie needs to follow the “KISS” strategy. Simply put it means “Keep It Simple Stupid”. Instead of these dull tactics where our forwards play to high up and are expected to do the job that our central midfielders are to useless and incompetent to do, which is create.
October 15th, 2009 at 19:23
@Onkar: I personally feel that Gary Neville is one of the most selfish pricks alive. Any player worth his salt in gold would have relinquished the captaincy to another teammate had he been as injured and as washed up as Neville has been for the past three seasons. Instead he holds on to it like it’s the Holy Grail. It’s selfish and the captaincy needs to be passed on to a deserving player permanently rather than spread about from Giggs to Rio to EVDS to O’Shea depending on the lineup.
I disagree 110% with Fergie about the bollocks that a defender or midfielder must be captain. Fergie should show some vision here and some common sense. Wayne Rooney is the heart and soul of this team and its present as well as future. He also needs to grow up a bit and take on a chioces would be Vidic and Fletcher. Inspirational player but also, players that play full time and can be counted on to play full time as well as lead.
October 15th, 2009 at 20:07
@ManUtd24: Awesome!
October 15th, 2009 at 20:07
@Grognard: Mate Sunderland would wipe the floor with them, don’t give me that.
October 15th, 2009 at 20:14
@Grognard: I agree Nev probably should have stood down, but Fergie should have passed the armband onto Rio, it may well lift his game.
October 15th, 2009 at 20:46
so did berba get a trick yesterday anyone see it or nanis goal?
October 15th, 2009 at 21:27
Love this thread, best start to a season in god knows how long. Champions of England, Champions of the world, Champions of a can of Carling and we handed our European crown to Barca in the final and to read this thread we are a shit team with a clueless old man in charge. I agree with many of the points raised but come on it aint all that bad it could be worse we could be all sat in a council house some where eating rats and thinking its a tasty treat while a fat spainsh waiter tells us Lucas is a footballer. Get the red flag out now this international shit is over and bring on Bolton then Moscow and then the scum
October 15th, 2009 at 21:57
@ManUtd24: Cheers mate. I’ve been buried in work all day and I completely missed that.
October 15th, 2009 at 22:07
@RedTan:
October 16th, 2009 at 0:13
@Stephen: If you take the best a nation have to offer and put them together, I firmly believe they can beat the minnows of any league. Perhaps not Sunderland as they are pretty decent but certainly Pompey and Wolves. That doesn’t include nations that are ranked higher (worse) than 50th in the world.
October 16th, 2009 at 0:19
@RedTan: Nero fiddled while Rome burned too mate. If you cannot see the cracks in the foundation, there’s nothing I or anyone else can say to convince you. Everything you brought up are past accomplishments. More importantly, they were accomplishments while we still employed the best player on the planet. So spare me the sarcasm and glass half full mentality because I for one do not buy it. This club is great and has a great history but we can not sit back and just watch it slowly deteriorate because our manager has decided to alter the way he has done things for twenty years and with the Glazer’s taking all the Ronaldo money and pocketing it without putting it back into player purchases. What you need is more time and more evidence that things are in fact starting to come apart at the seams. Lets wait and see how long this club can go on stealing points with luck and playing above it’s talent base. I seriously doubt this club has the ability to finish any higher than third. But lets wait and see.
October 16th, 2009 at 8:21
@Grognard: Try reading some of me previous posts in the thread and then take a deep breath then read the thread above about cancer and gain some perspective.
But if you want me to agree that we are a club in decline due to the fact that you can not stay at the top for ever BUT mainly due to the fact that uncle Malc is running the club in to the ground, then there you go. Unfortunately that is life and neither you or me can do a f*cking thing about it except continue to support what ever team is sent out to play (although even that is becoming hard the way I am being priced out of the club). The recent success has been fantastic and it was a joy to see the worlds greatest player at Old Trafford. If we did not have nearly £800 million of debt we would still have the greatest player at old trafford and probably the second or third greatest as well
I have loved united since the early eighties so have seen the bad times and the good times and no doubt will see some bad times again. So again I say come on lads a big week ahead UNITED UNITED!
October 16th, 2009 at 8:27
@Grognard: just another point Grognard do you read beyond the first two lines of a post before you decide it is clever to try and shoot fellow posters down. Is this a mission for you to be seen as the biggest red of all time or some thing or is this early hour making me cynical? I am just asking before that angry voice in your head translates this as criticism, it is just a question
October 16th, 2009 at 8:51
Hello guys, this is my first post, though have been following for a while.Stephen Defour? Will this be yet another youngster who is wasted at this great club.
Bolton this weekend? Not sure if we fancy playing against teams who press the ball and physical throughout the pitch, heading of the football seems to have died out at old trafford as compared to other grounds. Our central defenders are good at that aspect but if Sir Alex wants to play with width where is our old fashioned target man(Alan She…), a guy who can actually head the football, play football to accomodate your strikers or else strategy needs to be changed. Whats the point of crosses if no one is in the box and those who are cant head the football.Interesting don’t you think?
October 16th, 2009 at 9:40
@Grognard: Who will finish above us mate? Liverpool have to be pretty much faultless now until the end of the season due to their defeats so for me they will not win the title, Arsenal do not have the squad to compete and are not good enough, Chelsea will push us all the way but will loose Mikel, Essien, Drogba and Kalou in Jan and so far are not allowed to bring anyone else in and City who knows we will certainly be in the top two no doubt.
October 16th, 2009 at 10:54
@spizzy: No, but I am desperate for an invite. Do you have it and if so how is it. It looks amazing from the presentation video I saw on the web site.
October 16th, 2009 at 18:12
@RedTan: My my, did we get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? I find your replies to me to be a little rude, and uninformed. You are new to this blog yet I have been hear close to three years and have not been told off in this back handed a manner. I have nothing against you mate but never ever accuse me of not reading other’s comments again. I try to read every comment on this blog as well, I damn well guarantee that I read every comment that is addressed to me.
You assume that your questions will be seen as criticism yet you word your comments in such a mean spirited manner intended to offend rather than examine. You know nothing about me but you should know this. Anybody who gets into a sparring battle of wits with me on this blog will lose. Secondly, I am not looking for a fight with you or anyone. I have a right to my views on the club and this site encourages all views, even those from people who do not tow the conformist line. If you see everything from a glass that’s half full, that is fine and I respect that, but never feel that I have to agree with you or that i have to conform to your mantra. And you don’t have to agree with mine. But we have to both be tolerant of each other’s views and above all, respectful.
I have been a fan of this club longer than you, so don’t throw that card at me because I go back to the mid 70’s with my allegiance. I have seen all the good with the bad too. I see that Fergie is nearing the end of his magnificent reign with the club and that under this current ownership, the future looks far from comforting and secure. I was not shooting you down. I was disagreeing with you. Find me a passage in my comments where I threw an insult or made a statement that is shooting you down. Disagreeing with people is not a crime on this blog mate. The fact I do not share your view is not a crime and by all means, disagree with me on mine, but above all, tolerate people’s rights to differ and respect that. Stop getting personal and “cynical”.
I meant no offense to you and if you saw offense in what I wrote, I think you need to reread my post as well, I think you need to lighten up a bit. Am I the biggest red fan of all time? Don’t be ridiculous. I am however a committed hard core fan who loves his team and who cares enough to not just be an innocent bystander or wallflower and chooses to challenge the status quo and ask the hard questions. If that is a crime in your books, I suggest you try another blog because you will find many like me on Red Rants. If you are just being cranky today, chalk it up as a wake up message, welcome aboard and hopefully we can get beyond your initial impression of me and have many interesting and stimulating debates in the future. But quit right now with the personal attacks. Nobody attacked you mate. Disagreements are not attacks.
October 16th, 2009 at 18:15
@Stephen: I would never count out Liverpool because they have to extremely world class players that are able to elevate their games at clutch moments. But I believe that Arsenal are much better than you think. They aren’t perfect but they seem to have a drive this season that I think may cause us problems. I also think and believe that Chelsea will win the league. As for Man City, not in our lifetime can I see them bettering us. I HOPE!
October 16th, 2009 at 19:33
@Grognard: Mate they have Stevie Me and Torres their other top player is Mascherano, come on Grog be realistic they have lost too many games and do not have the strength to win the title or finish above us.
October 16th, 2009 at 22:39
@Stephen: Lets see at the end of the season who is right on this one. I personally find it ridiculous to count them out 8 or 9 games into the season considering they almost won the title last year and started even worse than this year form wise. Sure they have already lost three games but United has lost more games than the second place team for the past three seasons and still won the title.