Nov 16
On Premier League’s new media rules
The Telegraph ran this story about a new set of Premier League rules being passed, giving the press and media rights holders wider access to the managers and players.
The gist of the story was:
1. players can be interviewed immediately after a match [ie, players of winning teams only. If it ended in a draw players of both teams can be interviewed right on the pitch once the whistle blows]
2. managers are required to talk to ‘rights holders’ — which means Sky (to whom Fergie already talks to) and the BBC MotD (to whom he doesn’t and sends Phelan instead)
3. it is also mandatory for the manager or a senior member of the coaching staff to give a press conference.
Now I have no access to the actual literature of the rules that have been reportedly passed by the Premier League. So I cannot comment on whether this actually forces the manager into talking to the rights holders — or if he could send his deputy. [Note: I am talking about the post-match interviews to reporters and not the press conference in #3.]
But, since there seems to be a big deal made of this, let’s say we trust the Telegraph story and assume that the new rules will indeed force Ferguson’s hand. Now, this means it will usher in a new age of more transparency between press and the Premier League sides.
Now that’s all well and good. The problem however is it opens up players and managers to more vulnerability in saying things in the heat of the moment, and perhaps higher chances of saying stuff they would normally not say.
This is in light of everything that’s transpiring between the referees’ union and Ferguson — all because he expressed an opinion, albeit a rather harsh one, on referee fitness levels. So with increased media access, are the Premier League also taking steps to define rules on what kind of things a manager or player can or cannot say.
Let’s dispense with the obvious: one cannot eff, or cee, or go bollocks! at the reporter — “it’s a family show,” they would say. But how about defining, to everyone involved, what constitutes ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ behaviour. [As an aside, if they are working on it, good luck to them.]
A simple case in point, why this is very tricky: Geoff Shreeves, I believe, asked Ferguson following the Chelsea defeat, “I don’t want to try and put words in your mouth, but did the referee cost you the match?”
I don’t know, Geoff, but to me you just shoved those words deep into his oesophagus. And I think, Fergie, with all the stuff going on around him, did a decent job chewing those words down, instead deciding to go for some sensible — albeit banal — phrasing.
There is increased press access — some would say, on the lines of how it’s done in North American sport — but if that means there are less shackles on the pressers to put as many crafty words as they can into managers’ and players’ mouths, will there be a relaxation (or a more defined structure to the rules) on the players’ / managers’ side to make this actually work?
If not, we’ll either see more outbursts — and hence, more recrimination from offended parties — or we’ll see players and managers trot out tired cliches, making this whole exercise rather pointless and adding little value.
Further reading — although a bit tangential to this — on United Rant regarding the refs’ union’s threat to sue Ferguson.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Red Rants and Fantasy Football – The 09/10 Fantasy Football League
- Manchester United did not break Premier League rules in Howard “deal”
- Join 08/09 Red Rants Fantasy Football. Win Prizes!
- John Terry, AIG and Fergie’s Rant on Hackett
- United Get the Job Done, Just
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
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RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
By the way the first reply was to Madchester
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@Jay wire: Using the reply button more often would help remove confusion.
Unless, of course, you’re not able to locate it.
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I thought I had already explained to you in a previous thread how I have been unable to use that reply button on my mobile device. Suggestions were made and nothing worked. Anyway I’m gonna be using a laptop shortly.
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Only seen Lloris a few times but everytime hes looked brilliant.
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Ireland are robbed by that that twat henry, fucking disgraceful fuching hell…
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@Nafooy: I guess I’m on some people’s minds because I am just as loud or as controversial as Fergie and so some on here often wonder how I’ll react to something just because I’m known to be hot headed and to speak mind and be painfully true about things. No harm done really, I just thought it was funny.
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Once an Arsenal player, always an Arsenal player…
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@Footy4Eddy: But you will learn more about the game and become a more well rounded and complete player if you got to Italy. Germany is good but it depends on the club. Italy may not play your style but their style is something that you should also incorporate into your game. You will learn absolutely fuck all in England unless you end up at United or Arsenal. They at least have a progressive and European attitude in the way they look at the game and how they work with youngsters. At Roma you will be exposed to the very best and most incredible technical experts in the game. Also, if your dream is to one day wear United red, you will be noticed by United much more if you are in Italy than even if you were in England. Fergie loves Italy and France and he has many scouts in Italy spying and taking notes. Kiko, Petruzzi and this new Danish CB are all prospects that they are finding in Italy. Obertan, Pogba and others are from France. For me it’s kind of clear that United are very strongly scouting France, Italy and Brazil for top talent. They do not care what the talent’s nationality is, they just feel those countries are producing the technically savvy kids they are looking for.
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@vanderberg: This is no surprise to me. I’ve been claiming this for months now and although this is a Sun article, I look to be proven right once again against those who contend that Fergie still has the Ronaldo money available to him when he wants it. Yeah right, and I am better looking than Eddy with gals on both arms and better on the pitch too.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Perhaps Fergie should rebel and fight his owners as opposed to referees. The Glazer’s are hurting this team far more than any group of referees could ever do.
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Russia… Fockin hell!!!
No Arshavin in South Africa!
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@NicoQB: I agree with you there. But also what has happened, has happened and nothing can be done about it. I have said all along that Nani has great skills but a ten cent head. Well I also think Fergie has erred with him many times as he is confused over the lad and isn’t sure how to get through to him. I won’t use the excuse cultural differences, but Nani seems less intent on learning and being attentive the old man than Ronaldo was. There is a reason why Fergie loves Ronny so much and why he had a fatherly approach and relationship to him. Ronaldo treated Fergie like a father and went to him with all his issues and learned from him. The also had a playful competition with each other because Ronaldo found a way to break down the old man’s reserve and managed to become trusted friends with him. Nani on the other hand would hide in the toilet stall and would work hard in training but be aloof and distant. There is no mystery here as to why one succeeded and one failed even if they were both equal in skills, although they clearly wee not.
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@Jay wire: But in Gods name is your point mate? Everything you are offering means little in the overall discussion and what is at the crux of the matter which is Nani’s slow development and questionable attitude and Fergie’s inability to figure him out and use him properly. What’s the point with all the useless stats. Sorry but they mean absolutely zero to this discussion. Who cares if he was 19 or 20 when he showed up?
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Actullay they do not compare at all and above all, statistics do not tell the whole story. Therefore, the old adage that statistics are for losers speaks volumes here. And no Jay Wire, I am not calling you a loser mate, I’m just making a point that stats say very little. Man I can’t tell you how many games I have seen Ronaldo be outstanding and not get a goal or assist. Are those games included?
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@Footy4Eddy: Mate, we need midfielders. It’s funny how you bypass our greatest need because of your fear Anderson will end up in some hinterland.
Other than GK, our biggest needs are an AMF (Gourcuff) and both a RW/RM and LW/LM, although Obertan could work out ton the left.
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@Jay wire: Yes lets blame the man who has worked with thousands of player in his time and with hundreds at United. Lets call him a total muppet and blame it all on him and not the Michael Jackson clone who is too stubborn headstrong and a whole lot overrated. I am often on Fergie but I also know how many players he has taken and turned them into superstars. Yes he has made some mistakes with Nani but most of the blame is on Nani.
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@NicoQB: That also frees up Guus to take any job available to him in England. Can you all say LIVERPOOL? I guess Hiddink isn’t the miracle worker he though he was. Too many of his good players like Pavlyuchenko, Zhirkov and Pogrebnyak not getting enough playing time on their club teams to be in form for the national team.
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@Jay wire: Darren Fletcher playing anywhere in midfield? Not at all.
He is played only in two positions: Centre midfield and Right midfield. 5 to 6 years ago, he was being played almost entirely on the right of midfield, to which I was not happy as I knew his best position was in the centre, as well as Ronaldo being much more effective as an offensive threat.
Also your stats prove my point about Nani not playing to his strengths – that of providing assists, which he did very well in his rookie season…
Oh, and Portugal went through tonight.. Guess who provided the assist? Luis Nani, that’s who! As he did for first leg. Still life in the Cap Verdian?
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@Grognard: I think those stats are quite relevant in the big picture. You seem to have a problem in general with stats I believe. I think Jay wire has laid the blame on Ferguson, and while he’s brought up some valid points, he has to understand that if Nani was really that good, some of it might have shown in training or something to make him feel that spark.
It would be wrong to dismiss Jay wire’s comments as meaningless rubbish because it does bring in another valid dimension to the discussion. Statistics in themselves may not present the whole picture, but it certainly does add to the discussion, and I have to give Jay wire his due.
@Jay wire: You can’t lay the blame squarely on SAF. If it’s that black and white, I’m sorry, you’re being the ignorant one. SAF didn’t perhaps give him enough playing time, but if there was something extraordinarily Ronaldo like, it would have been quite obvious in training. It has to be a bit of both.
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@Grognard: Zhirkov has a chronic knee problem it seems. Even the doctors aren’t sure of the cause, according to reports.
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Disgusted at france – cheating f~cks
FIFA and refs conspire to keep the “big” teams in the world cup even tho they dont deserve it
Gutted
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@redpenguin: I just read about France-Ireland… What do they do if this was the World Cup Final?
We need replays, replays, plays, ays, s,….
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I don’t think that France are any more cheaters than any other country. Had it been any other team in the same predicament, I would not have been surprised if they acted the same.
Even the french pundits where I’m watching the game are quite a bit ashamed of the way in which they qualified. Lizarazu, as disgusted as he is, is doing a formidable job of trying to remain civil on live television…
But any neutral have to feel for the Irish..
Gotta sleep now. Well past time here.
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@Red Ranter: Stats are for losers. You forget that I have played and studied not one sport but half a dozen and the only sport where stats truly make a difference more than all the other elements in a game is baseball. There are so many intangibles that one can not measure in a game or player by stats. This is still a game played by human beings and not calculators. Sorry, I know you are a stats buff and there is a place for it but not when you compare to vastly different players in both skill and temperament. In that case stats go out the window.
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@Red Ranter: Just guessing but when doctors are stumped it’s probably s similar injury to Hargreaves. It comes and goes and it’s hard to find in an MRI or CT scan. Just a guess but lets wait and see if I am right. I wager on tendinitis.
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Well I finally started my campaign with Football Manager 2010 as Manchester United. Immediate changes i have made to the team before playing a regular season match are as follows.
Goodbye Charlie’s:
)
EVDS – GONE
BEN FOSTER – REALLY GONE (I sent him to a weather tracking station in Antarctica
NANI – GONE (Sold him to Sevilla. Hope he gets a good break there)
SCHOLES – GONZO – FINITO – KAPUT (I won’t even take him back as a coach)
NEVILLE – GONE – HISTORY -SAYONARA – ADIOS (Good riddance to bad rubbish I say)
WELBECK – GONE (Sold him to Steve Bruce)
TOSIC – GONE (Sold him to Bordeaux in the deal to get Gourcuff)
Johnny Come Lately’s:
RENE ADLER – (Chose him over Neuer because of his loyalty rating to United. Tough decision)
JACK RODWELL – (I am putting feelers out there for Rio as Jack will take over at CB eventually)
MILOS KRASIC – (Great player, fantastic hair)
YOANN GOURCUFF – (Cost me a lot and Tosic but will be worth it)
Am presently deciding on a LW/LMF player and have not made my mind up. Silva is heading the list but may be too costly and Di Maria is good but not my kind of player. And forget Ribery, I don’t have Ronaldo money anymore.) Will also look to replace Welbeck with a young striker with great potential that is between 20-22. Kind of like the Muller kid at Bayern. Any suggestions for LW and a young striker 20-22 are welcome.
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@Grognard: It’s amazing the stuff you’re saying there. What is my point? Did I not explain prior to giving those stats that they are based on proving productivity? And that was the millionth attempt of explaining myself. One definition of productivity is “the amount of physical output for each unit of productive input”. Correct me if I’m wrong,but I believe the primary physical output of wingers is making goals aka assists,followed by goals. That’s what productivity means. Check for your own definitions. And as far as I’m concerned “productive input” is about game time. So how are these stats “useless” and consisting of “absolutely zero” meaning?
Unlike you , I have supported my arguements with rock solid facts, as opposed to psycho-analysis and primarily hypothetical declarations. For instance,@Grognard:.
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@Grognard: This is the link I wanted on your unsubstantiated psycho-analysis.
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@Grognard: And this. Totally unsubstantiated.
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@Grognard: You are wrong on that. Stats do have a role in helping us understand part of the picture. You say they have zero relevance and that is completely off the mark that it’s ridiculous. Stats have some meaning, and add a dimension to any educated discussion. It is not everything, but at the same time it is not zero relevance as you said. It adds and aids, in football to a lesser degree than other sports, but it still has some meaning.
And it is precisely because you’ve said you’ve studied so many sports stats that I find it shocking that you seemed to make this observation. I am not a stats buff in football, but I recognize that it still is a part of a discussion. I will not centre an entire argument just based on stats, but to make an argument well rounded, stats are just as important.
My problem with this argument is that you are not even willing to acknowledge stats have some meaning, and Jay wire seems to contend that they mean everything. (Both extreme positions, and incorrect ones) Forgetting that analysing the relative success/failure of a player has to be a summation of a lot of factors where inter-personal relationships, environment, player’s talent and stats are all components. They are all like colours of the palette one uses to draw the big picture. And it’s naive if someone picks none (or picks one) and says it has completely no relevance (or THE main reason ,as applicable)
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@Grognard: Stats are very relevant in football. The same principle applies in basketball and most athletic sports. They are used to look at a player’s productivity based on his role. They are therefore a major part of performance appraisal. How do you measure the progress of a striker? Simple you look at their goals since their role in the team is to score goal. What do all great strikers in football history have in common? Why it’s goals obviously and goals scored is a statistic. Very relevant. You also look at something known as a games to goal ratio i.e. what is the average number of goals a striker scores in a single game. Shots to goal ratios to see who is more clinical.
Wingers. How do we tell that this is a productive and effective winger? Well we look at the amount of the product they produce. The product of a winger is primarily assists and goals. So it is very relevant to look at these to measure progress and to make comparisons.
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@Jay wire: Nani would be playing more if he was playing better!!
You are over thinking a very simple issue!!
When Nani decides to go on a blind run into a Cul-d-Sac, or shoots the ball in to row Z or passes the ball directly to a defender or decides to pass when he should shoot or shoots when he should pass – these are problems that are attributed to him playing poorly and not the fault of SAF, Rooney, Evra, Berbatov etc, etc.
He has had 2 1/2 seasons to prove himself and break into the starting team and he hasn’t. Do you think that just because he’s “Nani” he will be handed a starting job on a silver platter?
Frankly he has been given the same opportunities as everybody else, but has failed to cement a starting job because of his inconsistantcy and bone head decision making.
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@NicoQB: Okay fine. Darren Fletcher played in the middle and on the right. But was he really offering much competition? To prove that Ronaldo was a guaranteed 1st eleven,please name 3 players who played more games than him during any season. How many started more games than him? That would surely prove he was or wasn’t a first team player. I rest my case and my tired body and bid you all goodnight or whatever time you’re in
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@Jay wire: I like your point on stats for a striker. He is gauged by how many goals he scores and to a certain extent by his goals to per game ratio.
I think it’s vital to hold a strikers feet to the fire when these fall below what is expected!
When you’ve finished talking about Nani, you and I could have an interesting discussion on Berbatov!
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@Redrich: You know what man I can’t keep saying the same thing over and over again. Nani is young. He HAS to be inconsistent. Even Rooney IS inconsistent. Ronaldo was largely inconsistent and did the VERY SAME things you say Nani did. He is not Messi or Fabregas, who at 16 were playing like 26 year olds. Rafael and Fabio make BONEHEADED defensive decisions. Should they be disqualified? If ,just like everyone else,*insert any player below 23* he had been given his fair allowance of being inconsistent then it would have been different. But enough for today with the Nani stuff.
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@Redrich: I’ll hold you to that one. Sorry for caps but my eyes are heavy and the caffeine is not doing any favours.
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Regarding stats in football, the problem with stats mostly is because the game is much more fluid, and hence makes it hard to constrain them to the sport. Some stats do have value, like strikers for instance. But I think we haven’t determined effective metrics to fully gauge the effectiveness of a player purely based on stats unlike a lot of other sports. For instance what if someone is an excellent crosser, but finds no one good enough to be at the end of it? What if that makes his assist stats disproportionately low because of the incompetence of the strikers/tactics to take advantage of that?
Stats must be a part of a well reasoned debate, but are far from everything in football.
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@Jay wire: Just a quick one, mate, before you turn in.
Look I understand what you’re trying to say, but I believe that in the real world of running a Football team, you make selections based on what is best for the club, the team and the supporters – and not for the benefit of the individual players.
There is no question that a player will benefit from an extended run in the starting 11, but he has to prove his worth to the manager and the team. It’s the only truly fair way to ensure that they are rewarded for their good efforts and to create an incentive to perform well.
If Nani had done this, he would have been given the opportunity of that exrended run.
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@Red Ranter: Some are and some are not!!
Why would anyone consider a striker successful if he scores only a handful of goals each season, or a manager a good one if he loses more games than he wins. These are stats that make it or break it for the examples given here.
However as you say, the assist stat is asinine as is the one that tallies how far you’ve run in a game (Tevez would be the best if we believed that).
Clean sheets for a Goalie also is meaningless, IMO, because each goal he lets in, has its own value on how savable it was!!
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@Redrich: Yes I agree. Although assists could make sense if, for instance we were comparing a right winger to a left winger playing in the same starting XI over the course of a season or two. That gives us more sample size plus it makes it a more like for like comparison.
I think football is hard to describe with raw stats, and a lot of metrics one uses may be completely inadequate. But it cannot be summarily dismissed either. That’s all.
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@ RedRanter – sometimes you seem just to make your own conclusions before really assessing something. I never even implied that stats are everything as you pointed out in your last reply to Grognard. If you look at the major history of this debate, I only added stats as a last resort to support my arguement. Check the post with the stats and read it from the beginning. I used them as a support to prove that it is simple football truth that player development has an inseparable relationship with games played. Also to prove that Nani is a highly productive player. I know you’re trying to play it close to the fence and be balanced but I have to make it clear that I’m not implying that stats are everything.
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@Jay wire: I am aware that you pinned the blame primarily on Ferguson. You also referred to your stats as cold hard facts, making your comments come across as if it meant everything.
I am also not trying to strike a balance for the sake of it. I think football cannot be described in one or two metrics, but a combination of factors. That’s how one should judge players, a holistic evaluation. That doesn’t make me a fence sitter. And I’ll say that all things considered I think Nani hasn’t succeeded at United. Adding all the factors of Ferguson/Lack of starts/talent etc, I think the ultimate blame here is on Nani in my opinion.
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@Grognard: Is Toni Kroos too expensive?
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@Grognard: & @Nafooy:
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@Jay wire: Because they do not take in all the other substantial elements in a players development as well as his attitude and ability to take coaching. There are other issues at play here, not just goals and assists. The game has another dynamic that you are ignoring and this dynamic has more to do with Nani’s failure than his stats. Hell, from a stats point of view he would look to be doing fine. He does nothing for 89 minutes but then for one split second he crosses a ball to a teammate and boom, goal. In a sport where one goal often wins, one might consider that a good performance. I don’t. That is why statistics are for losers. Stats take what is inherently a very simple game and try to turn it into Rafa’s chessboard. Well as I am not a fan of Rafa’s way of thinking, I am not going to buy into it. Sell this stuff to Arsenal fans who buy into Wenger’s statistical revolution. Perhaps the reason why he hasn’t won anything for a long time is that stats have no pulse or passion, they are just number and it takes something that cannot be measured by mathematical equation to properly judge a player’s usefulness. Sorry mate but Stats are four letter word with an s at the end when it comes to me. I do not mean to rain on your efforts but I just do not buy into it from that perspective. The kind of statistics I do buy into are the ones of probability. You can find those all over the book “Soccernomics”. Now those are numbers I can buy in to.
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@Jay wire: I have no idea what you are talking about. What link?
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@Red Ranter: Yes stats have some meaning but your argument is that they mean nearly everything. So no mate, you are wrong. Have you ever played organized sports mate? If you have you know that there is a lot more to becoming a player than just the stats you offer in a given sport. So many people influence and guide you and how you take to all that has a lot to do with what kind of player you will be. Then the game starts and you go out there and do all the great things that statisticians don’t really count (although one can say there seems to be a stat for everything these days), as they are only really concerned with stats the lead to a an end product.
My thinking is far from ridiculous, it’s well thought out and a little bit to three dimensional for some of you. Like I said earlier, if one looks at stats Nani would come across as an effective player because he tends to be part of the end product for at least a goal in most games he plays. But Hell, mate, only Jay Wire and especially Craig are going to take that few seconds and give him a 9/10 for the game. I look at the whole game and his whole contribution while not getting seduced by the end product stats. And if you want to talk stats lets talk about how many tackles he missed, or how many times they took the ball off of him or how many bad passes and crosses he made in a game or how many times did he react negatively to a player taking the ball off of him etc etc. Like I said, there are stats for everything. So many that it is a mind blowing addition to a game that not too long ago used to have about a dozen statistical categories but now has literally dozens. No I say take the mathematician, chess player, economist and computer programmer out of the game as they just clog it up with boring and useless diarrhea. Sorry but you aren’t going to convert me on this one mate.
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@Jay wire: But they are not the only tool coaches and other use to define the worth of a team or a player. They are useful tool, not the end all be all. I like stats up to a point. I just know that there is a whole lot more to every sport than raw stats. That is my point.
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@Redrich: Once again Red, you say it so well. “You are over thinking a very simple issue” That left me all misty and emotional mate. Beautiful.
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@Redrich: Yes but here is the time when I come to the defense of a striker like Berbatov. Although I agree with you in theory, most strikers (the old school variety) require service into the box to get the chances they position themselves for. So a striker could be doing everything right like his movement, his instincts, his positioning and footwork etc, but if Nani or Valencia or Anderson don’t get him the ball, how can he be blamed. Every time Michael Owen comes into a game he makes dazzling diagonal runs and finds space off the shoulder of the last defender but rarely does he ever get spotted in time or ever get the ball in an area where ha has a good crack at goal. Now if he does get the ball and he continually gets stopped or he makes a meal of situations, then I agree. Berbatov in this case is guilty and innocent. I do not think he receives enough service but then again quite often he lacks the aggressiveness needed to find space and often when he gets his chance, he blows it.
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