May 18
Pique, Platini, Ronaldo and Moscow Rumblings
Late, late post today but I was out late the night before which meant waking up late in the morning. But better late than never, so here’s the roundup for the day.
It looks almost certain that Gerard Pique would be making his exit and heading for his boyhood club, Barca. Some reports say that he’s already had a medical while some speculate that an agreement to the tune of €3.5m has already been agreed. [I would think it's a bargain considering his successful loan spell at Zaragoza.]
I can’t dispute Pique’s decision because it really is the fault of the club for not giving him enough chances, and, the form and fitness of Vidic and Rio really made it difficult for the young Spaniard to break through. More so, when Vidic was out injured, SAF preferred Brown in the centre and Hargreaves (a make-shift right back) in the right over Pique. Fergie would be justified in that decision because it came at the tail end of the season where it was do-or-die. But from a club point of view, are we doing the right thing?
More importantly with Evans looking to make his move to Sunderland, we seem woefully short of cover at the back for next season. I would personally like Evans to be farmed out to Sunderland for another six months and see how it goes. I don’t want both Pique and Evans to move. It could be said that we have Gary Neville coming back, but with his age and injury record for the last season, we can’t expect to bank on him staying fit forever. Chelsea made a mistake of selling both, Robert Huth and Gallas in the same season assuming the indestructible Terry would always be there. As it turned out their beloved JT had one of his worst injury prone seasons and Chelsea saw their quest to complete a hat trick of League titles fall by the wayside.
Rio has been as fit as any player could be in the Premiership, but any player is just one bad tackle or a pulled hamstring away from being on the operation table. So we really shouldn’t be selling both of our most promising defenders at the same time. Keep one of them, at least.
A Kick in the Grass comments on Michel Platini’s attempt at clamping down on debt ridden clubs like our own. The main article that this post refers to is the one on the Telegraph. Platini has a problem with teams in debt doing better than clubs whose books are well balanced. And as a result, he wants debt ridden clubs to not feature in Champions’ League.
While the idea of forcing clubs to not stay in debt may be well intentioned, Platini again finds himself lacking when it comes to implementing a viable solution to tackle the problem. Forcing clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool out of the CL — while taking the sheen off UEFA’s prized club competition — may be one thing, but keeping clubs like Real Madrid in the competition, who while not in debt are known for dodgy financial mismanagement, would be a travesty.
And hence, the UEFA president would have to come up with a better solution.
Today’s papers were full of stories where Ronaldo reiterated that he’s happy at the club, with the popular refrain from the dailies being: he’ll stay as long as Fergie stays. The Guardian published an interview, but then, the Times also published something similar. Either way he keeps saying that he has nothing left to prove and that he’s aware that he’s the best.
Now United are known for having playmakers who have been pompous, but to me it appears as if Ronaldo plays only for the awards and the need to be recognised. Personally, I would rather he plays for the sake of winning for the team and not try too hard to be recognised. But then, it’s his hunger to succeed that drives him on and, hence, helps the team. So fair play to him. Whatever the papers say, I am fairly certain that he will stay for another season at least. And the club must plan and groom for a seamless transition once he leaves. Not wait for three years like we did when Becks left.
Right, now on to the talk that one usually gets to hear in the lead up to a big game, in this case the Champions’ League final.
Vidic and Rooney talk about Drogba. Vida, not usually known to talk to the media, said that he thought Drogba at times seemed like he was strong and at times seemed like he was too weak — insinuating that he goes down too easily at times. Rooney meanwhile balanced his criticism with appreciation of the Ivorian’s strengths.
Carlos Tevez thinks United must stretch every sinew and try every trick in the book to beat Chelsea because they are a tough nut to crack.
And Ryan Giggs says that there was a time he thought his second chance of being able to play in the Champions’ League final had passed him by. But now he feels grateful that he gets another shot.
Alright, that’s it for now. More United roundup tomorrow.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United drawn with Besiktas, CSKA Moscow and Wolfsburg
- Wenger Speaks Sense As Platini Loses his Mind
- Home Grown Quota Could Temporarily Shut Platini Up
- The Defensive Dilemma
- Sunderland vs Man Utd
Tags: Daily Roundup
May 18th, 2008 at 22:46
Just one quick point on Platini, his comments show a gross misunderstanding of how businesses (even football clubs) are run. Debt is not a problem as long as the amounts in question are kept manageable in terms of interest repayments.
In the case of Chelsea, they can make any losses they want but if Roman chooses so these will not be accounted for as debt. In addition in Platini’s wonderful little world does he leave allowances for either buyouts of clubs or the ability to move stadia? Once again ideology has problems when it meets the real world.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:58
JB; I agree. Today business is so complex and the different methods for monitoring monies spent and owed can be manipulated so easily. Most owners of teams use the purchase as a tax shelter for their other empires. Rule number one in big business is never use your own money. With that rule in play, debt (but manageable debt will always be present). Platini is so naive he thinks that soccer clubs should be run like his local French baguette and croissant bakery. It just goes to show how unqualified he is to lead UEFA. Men who understand world economics, politics and social sciences should run FIFA and UEFA. Not glamorized football legends. Todays world football is political and economic science of the highest order.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:58
So thats Pique, Evans and seemingly Silvestre on there way out of the door! we will be short in numbers at the back……..
If im honest I never thought Pique was united class anyway, a little slow and rash for my liking but then again he was only young.
All the best Pique.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:05
RR; It’s not the club’s fault for Pique not getting a chance. You cannot give a player a chance to play in vital games that mean so much and sit down your starters who are better for the sake of being fair. They play when our starters need rest and when they are injured. Bottom line is Pique was just not good enough to take either Rio’s or Vidic’s job (then again who in the world is?). And that’s no knock on the lad. I think he is quality and would start for most teams in Europe. He’s just not good enough for United and he’s not even good enough to be third best CB behind Wes Brown. Let him go and all the best to him. He deserves a shot to start for another team.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:13
[Grognard]
You said:
You cannot give a player a chance to play in vital games that mean so much and sit down your starters who are better for the sake of being fair.
I said:
More so, when Vidic was out injured, SAF preferred Brown in the centre and Hargreaves (a make-shift right back) in the right over Pique. Fergie would be justified in that decision because it came at the tail end of the season where it was do-or-die.
So we said the same things didn’t we?
I just talked about the different ways of looking at it. It is not Pique’s fault for leaving the club. It may be the club’s fault for giving him hope that he’ll get more first team chances than being sent out on loan.
Typically I think defenders start realising their potential when they are 24-25 (apart from exceptions like Sergio Ramos) and peak when they 28-29 and have longer careers than midfielders and strikers.
So I think Pique can still become world class. He will walk right into the first team at Barca (because Puyol’s partner Milito is out for 8-9 months). So makes sense as a career decision to him. I find him a little suspect in the air but the pace of La Liga will suit him.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:27
Grognard, the comment about platinis bakery is hilarious!! The only thing that can limit salaries and money spent on sports is the system used in the nhl, nfl and nba where teams can only spend a percentage of revenues on players, usually around 50%… BUT this would be almost impossible to appply to football,..
Regarding pique., i like the guy but with one year left on his contract we have no choice but to sell him if he doesnt sign a new contract with us… Evans will certainly be with us next season and i rate him higher….
Cant wait for wednesday!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 18th, 2008 at 23:39
LOL!!!!!!! GUYS , i just read that Saha is not travelling to moscow, hes…… What else…. INJURED !!! All that talk in the previous post about him on the bench or not for nothing… Check the article in the daily mail
May 18th, 2008 at 23:44
Re: Pique
The situation with this young lad draws parallels with the one we had last year with Giuseppe Rossi, another talented youngster we let slip because he couldn’t make the grade. Though to be honest, Pique was never ever going to break through that iron curtain that is the Ferdinand-Vidic axis. I mean, if some of the world’s best strikers couldn’t get past them, how the hell was he going to? A quality player nevertheless, but just perhaps a little short of United calibre. All the best anyway Pique.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:51
You’re not serious B! I think I hear the sound of a fat lady singing and violins in the background as the curtains close on King Louis’s United career.
I just checked the Daily Mail sports site and I’ve just read that four out of Gary Neville, Mikael Silvestre, Anderson, Darren Fletcher and Nani will not make the final cut for the squad of 18. I can understand Gaz Nev and Silvestre not making it but NANI and ANDERSON?? We sure could use an injection of pace and dynamism in the last 20 mins from one of those two guys, or even both. I sure hope Fergie knows what he’s doing….
May 19th, 2008 at 0:05
SAF press conference video
Avram Grant press conference (looks like Chelsea have hired someone to make sure he doesn’t get bullied by the press)
May 19th, 2008 at 0:09
Well maybe if we cut the squad like the daily mail has it will be easier to see our options.
Definats in the squad of 18 will be -
1 VDS
2 Kusziack
3 Brown
4 Rio
5 Vidic
6 Evra
7 O’Shea
8 Carrick
9 Hargreaves
10 Scholes
11 Ronaldo
12 Giggs
13 Tevez
14 Rooney
We know Heaton, Eagles, Wellbeck wont be there + Saha is now injured.
So it is 4 from -
G.Neville
Silvestre
Pique
Anderson
Nani
Park
Fletcher
May 19th, 2008 at 0:19
it will be 1 from Silvestre, Neville and Pique.
Then 3 from Park, Fletcher, Anderson and Nani.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:43
The Pique deal is looking to be around £6m with £4m up front and up to £2m further depending on appearances. A good deal for Barcelona with figures at this level or possibly even lower.
Fergie may look for extra defensive cover for next season and if Silvestre was to leave it would be a good move as it is better to be safe than sorry, especially if a RB is not brought in and the position is rotated again.
Evans is a good option as cover, but I am not sure he will enjoy or benefit sitting on the bench and needs more games under his belt. We haven’t been linked with any other CB’s recently off the top of my head except Ezequiel Garay.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:45
I’m sure I read that just last summer we rejected a £7.5m bid for Pique from Real Zaragoza so I don’t understand how selling him for less than half that price a season later can be seen as a good thing! I really hope he stays as he will be a top top defender very soon.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:51
[Mr United]
You must remember that Fergie wanted to blood the youngsters in the Carling Cup. We know how well that turned out to be.
Considering we got him for free (almost), £6m is a good return. I agree that I would want him to stay with us, but it would be unfair on the lad if he has to continue sitting on his arse while Vidic and Rio continue to be first choice.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:56
But Red Ranter, while I do understand that Milito has recently suffered a long-term injury, I would still assume that Marquez, Puyol and Thuram are still ahead of him in the pecking order. In my opinion he is just one local lad replacing another in Oleguer. I see it as another bad career move for him. Financially, all things considered, it’s a fairly good deal.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:03
[Conor]
Thuram is on his way out of Barca. He’s been terrible. Pep Guardiola wants more Spanish lads and being the youth team coach, and the one who oversaw the likes of Fabregas and Pique, he would prefer Pique alongside Puyol. Marquez has injury issues of his own, but really Pique would be just behind Marquez and Puyol at worst, and will start at best alongside Puyol
May 19th, 2008 at 1:07
I still think career-wise it doesn’t help him at all. Once Milito is back, Pique is likely to get pushed back out of the team, if he even gets in ahead of Marquez. While his season at Zaragoza as successful, it would be foolish to believe that his performances have warranted a guaranteed starting place for a European giant such as Barcelona.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:03
I haven’t seen any reports on Pique so I didn’t know, I was hoping he would stay. Its a little naive and impatient of him to leave plus Barcelona has Marquez and Puyol to start so he’ll likely be in the same situation. But he is worth at least 7 mil unless his contract is in the last year.
Its stupid really not to extend contracts earlier unless players are just that wack…. I feel Flamini did the right thing for example because Arsenal tried to punk him and he got back at them.
We need a bigger squad the size of Chelsea and its bad business. I thought we were light at the beginning of last season and they boys proved me wrong. We just need one or two additions with no losses in the main squad and we’ll be fine. I hope Pique is convinced to stay he is a great 4th choice option.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:20
If Ronaldo goes, go get Bentley.
Him on the wing with a choice of 4 (by then) decent forwards and a top quality attacking right back (Alves?) will be a quality side, Nani on the left in front of Evra and that is one hell of a lot of assists, Ronaldo is great but I am not scared of losing him.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:00
Gerard Pique, I thought was going to stay. Maybe he’s doing a mistake moving. You don’t expect to get a lot of matches as a newcomer when the title is sitting on the rope. He will get chances and he should trust Fergie. Not having enough backup would be suicide in any position, unless you are Liverpool playing in the EPL at the season-end, with every match a friendly.
Vidic would have to match his game to his words now to stop Didier. Time will tell if it was a mistake from the Serb. Rafa must be laughing. P.S: Coming from Vidic, its a surprise anyway.
Platini has the right ideas about the end-result and the wrong one’s about implementing it.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:55
RR; I was just agreeing with you mate by throwing my hat in too. I was just wording it a little different. Sorry you misunderstood my intention.
May 19th, 2008 at 9:08
Nino; That’s not a fat lady singing, it’s fat Canadian/Greek that is going to say to all of you who lambasted him for two days I TOLD YOU SO! Like I never had a valid reason for wanting the guy executed without a blindfold.
JOKE everyone! Don’t come back giving it to me about the execution bit too. I couldn’t help my politically incorrect self.
As for Nani not being included in the group, that was totally predictable. Fergie is teaching the boy a lesson for his stupidity. A manager has to show a young player that bad behavior will not be tolerated. Even at the expense of a team’s short term ambitions. It will do wonders for the player and the team’s overall moral and attitude long term. Anderson on the other hand is a surprise but then again, the boy looked spent the last few times he played. I honestly think he is out of gas.
May 19th, 2008 at 9:12
Guys’ we have the Brazilian twins for cover at the fullbacks, and Brown can slot over to CB. . as can O’Shea if need be. . .
i really hope welbeck, and manchuo get a go next season. . .honestly, we shouldn’t need to buy anyone for any position except maybe FB and possibly CB
assuming saha, silvester, pique leave (oh and dong hahaha), that leaves us:
Defenders: Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra (Brazilian twins, Neville, O’shea)
MidField: Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs (Nani, OH, Anderson, Park, Fletcher, O’Shea)
Forwards: Rooney, Tevez, Manchuo, Welbeck
we lack recognized talent as backups at CB, FB, or FW, and we don’t have a world class right back. I honestly think the only signing we could legitimize as a “need” would be at right back, and it’s just good common sense to get someone for cover at CB.
however, the thing about getting another striker is that it will minimize the chances that manchuo and welbeck (and eventually rhain davis) have to develop against good competition.
i mean at some point we have to say “this squad is good enough to win the league” and allow our young players to be the subs on the bench instead of constantly buying players to come in and then selling all of our promising youngsters off. .
anyhow thats just my take. . what do you guys think?
May 19th, 2008 at 9:14
Tom F; Ronaldo is not greater than the team but I for one am terrified of losing him. A team just can’t replace the contribution of a player voted as the best in the world. Yes other players collectively can come in and help make up for the loss but his 41 goals, numerous assists and overall influence on a game is unparalleled. He is one of a kind. It would take two world class strikers to equal his goal scoring exploits alone. Done think for a second that United won’t skip a beat without him. They may go into cardiac arrest without him.
Ronny really has us over a barrel because natural replacements for him like Messi, Aguerro and Torres are not available. And as much as I like Bentley, he is not going to make me forget Ronny. Not by a long shot. Huntelaar, Arshavin and Richard or Alves might.
May 19th, 2008 at 9:40
It looks as though R Madrid are backing off or distancing away from Ronaldo
May 19th, 2008 at 10:17
Just thought I would direct a few people to a good article in the Guardian about Paul Scholes. There are very few people who are as talented as his him that remain so modest.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:33
That’s rediculous. He likes the adidas , the nike , the umbro etc. , the free market BUT he doesn’t like the debts and the loans? Rediculous !!!! HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY AND DO GAWK THINGS ALL THE DAY , BUT STILL HE IS THE UGLIEST CHARACTER THAT FOOTBALL HAS SEEN ( HAZEL ) . I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR HIM he is one of the biggest hypocrite.
It’s good to sell Pique . He wants to leave? Doors are widely opened for him. GIVE AS 10m pounds. Eitherwise it is a bargain.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:40
grogy
thats what ppl said when Cantona left as well!!! While Ronaldo is immense but he is not irreplaceable! SAF will still find another player and we’ll still be a great side. Nobody knows for sure if ronaldo will still be such a great player if he moves to some other side. for all you know he might turn out to be a disaster (of Veron proportions). Mark Hughes moved to Barcelona after great time with us but was a dud there and was “shipped back”! sheva was a world beater at ACM but is hugest flop at chelsea! there are so many examples!
if the reported 100m pound interest from real is true then that can get us benzema (30-40m types) + quaresma (15m maybe) and still some nice change left (prob to complete tevez signing – love this guy really). Just add these two in the side and we are again a great side!!!
May 19th, 2008 at 11:54
oh and we can maybe buy ronaldhino as well from the leftovers! I still believe SAF can bring the best out of him (just like he did with Cantona). He still has 4-5 years of top flight footy left in him. It wont be a bad business. Ronaldo for Benzema Quaresma/Ronaldhino (or both) Tevez deal!!!
Think of all the money dhino will generate as well (coz of his marketability). A beckham had propelled madrid to richest club in the world from 7th spot!
May 19th, 2008 at 12:15
It’s heysel it’s platini and he’s celebrating !
oh yeah platini the hypocrite rules!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTz1Y2I9qIs&feature=related
May 19th, 2008 at 12:17
GGGGOOOOOODDDDDD summer is boring, i need some action.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:20
And Grognard that’s why FAIR PLAY RULES EXIST .
Football is a serious thing. For all the world except North America.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:24
Grognard that’s why FAIR PLAY RULES EXIST .
Football is a serious game. For all the world except North America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBB9iS9n6XI&feature=related
May 19th, 2008 at 12:48
agree with grog on ronaldo.he aint bigger than the team,but we have not had a bigger player than him in recent history,not keane and not cantona.all the money in the world cant buy ronaldo this season.maybe in two years.we might be ready,just not now.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:57
Jos; Don’t kid yourself, we will be getting a £60m bid at most. Quaresma is inconsistent and is a poor man’s Ronaldo. Benzema will not be coming to us this summer. Whether we want to admit it or not Ronaldo has been the closest thing to irreplaceable for a while. We can eventually replace him but it will take time and by the time the team gets re-built again it could be SAF’s time to leave.
May 19th, 2008 at 13:16
If Ronaldo leaves we will have lost the best player in the world. But we have many other world class players or potential world class players such as Rio, Rooney, Tevez, Anderson, Vidic, Evra…and if we can use the money from Ronaldo to buy a couple more world class players, we may be less of a one-man team, but the team will be strengthened so we have even more matchwinners. Take Barca and Milan…the only player they had that could hurt us was Messi and Kaka respectively. If those players are off form or contained, game over. Ronaldo rarely shows up in big games, but we still win. Reason being we have so many other matchwinners.
May 19th, 2008 at 13:25
conor
utd will sell only if ron wants a move. so in case he decides to move our hands will be tied. while 60m is more realistic figure for his signature this year 100m was what was touted in the press so I quoted that.
For 100m we can definitely sign 2-3 world class players. Benzema (or Huntelaar), Ronaldhino and Tevez would surely be able to fill the goals gap because of ronaldos departure. Quaresma is not so bad at all (9 goals and over 30 assists this season). benzema is not going to stay at lyon forever (his chairman will probably sell him if a bid comes for 30m+ this year). dhino is also not going to be plying his trade at camp nou next yr. he cud be interested in coming to utd and he is just 27 (or 28) so still has lots of quality years left in him. he cud be a good replacement for ronaldo (as ronaldo is hardly a winger these days). SAF can definitely get the best out of him (just like he did in Cantona’s case), he is a brilliant man manager. we get a world class striker for free.
of course ronaldo cud decide to prolong his contract and stay and that would be the best. but if he goes he can pay for dhino and a world class striker and it wouldnt be a bad deal in my opinion.
May 19th, 2008 at 13:25
alan hansen’s team of the year. no bias here…
May 19th, 2008 at 13:43
I think we can stop fearing re: Ronaldo for at least another season or two, and as a football team trying to the best in the world today, we can’t worry to much about trying to blood a replacement, as it will inhibit our current success. He’s staying for now. The big quetion is which Ronnie shows up Wednesday – will it be the self-centred, diving one that played AC Milan a year ago or the composed, team-focused player that stepped out at OT against Barca last month. Hopefully the latter!
Defense is worrying. Unless Fergie has a master plan we don’t know about, I can’t see him getting rid of Pique, Evans, Silvestre all in one go. Would just be madness.
I think we’re going to find our new signings right after the CL final. Fergie has expressed laments in the past about trying to get players before a big competition, as their value always sky rockets based on 1/2 decent performances. I guess if they’re not European than it wouldn’t matter, but I get the impression we’ll hear soon after Moscow.
I wonder if Santa Cruz is on Fergie’s hit list…would make a great 3rd choice IMO and wouldn’t cost the moon. Reminds me a bit of the Saha situation when he was at Fulham – doing a job at a decent prem club…we’re the bad guys that come in and raid them. But I wouldn’t argue
r
May 19th, 2008 at 13:50
Since Pique will leave, Eckersley should be pulled up to the first team. He is an imressive defender, just watch the reserve games. And Cathcart will probably also be in the first team next season. And if we buy Richards, we have gotten a CB and a right back.
I want Nani to be playing, but he will probably not even be on the bench. Anderson deserve to be there, he has played well this season and he can add something spicy to our team if we need it. Silvestre, Park and Fletcher to be the other ones on the bench .
May 19th, 2008 at 13:50
I will be very surprised if little man Nani isn’t in the final 18. I don’t go with the Daily Mail’s take on things, because it didn’t come from Fergie, or out of Old Trafford. When Ronnie headbutted the Portsmouth player, albeit as gentle a headbutt you’ll ever see, he did his game bans, and he was straight back in the team. Although it was early season and we needed Ronnie, especially with the Roon out, I think Fergie’s usual pattern is to fine the offending player in house, and then not hold a grudge. If Fergie feels Nani has a part in his plans for this match, he will be in, regardless of his foolish misdemeanour. Still it is exciting waiting to see who will make the final cut.
Platini is as obsessed with correcting English football to his liking, as Blatter has always been. If he starts that caper, I can see the big teams breaking away and forming their own European championship tournament, as they have been threatening to do on and off for several years now!. Bet the top Lawyer’s are rubbing their grubby hands in anticipation at the thought of Platini action though. They will take footballs governing bodies to the cleaners – SO LET THE FUN BEGIN!.
May 19th, 2008 at 14:30
As all of you will agree United is bigger and always will be bigger than Ronaldo, its a simple fact that club is bigger than player.
That being said the hell with Ronaldo, I have no respect to a guy who thinks hes better than his coach, teammates, club, etc if he wants to go than goodbye and see you later.
Losing the player of the year/best player in the world is not a big deal, Ronaldinho was the best and look at Barca now Cannavaro left Intermilan and they won 3 titles Kaka was best last year and AC Milan failed to qualify to europe, the point is we dont Ronaldo to be the best team in the world we need to be United to be the best team in the world and there is no ME or Ronaldo in Manchester United.
May 19th, 2008 at 14:51
Saudi Red Devil; The point about no player is bigger than the team has been made so many times, people know that. But the fact is Ronaldo is better than any player in the world right now, our team as a whole is currently improving gradually and we do not need more money to buy another 3 world class players, we have a well balanced team.
Dan; Funny you should say that, as a Liverpool fan was saying that Alan Hansen proved himself to be a closet United supporter again through this team.
“Alan Hansen has given his verdict of team of the year. Basically it reads as the entire United side, plus one or two players from other teams thrown so he doesn’t look like the closet United supporter that he is. I don’t know what happened to Hansen, but it’s now very apparent to which mask he has his colours nailed too.”
Source.
And you seem to think of it the other way. think about it, he picked Wes Brown at right back and Rooney up front, neither have had outstanding seasons.
May 19th, 2008 at 15:15
conor, i was being sarcastic
, its difficult when you read of the net, you dont know the correct tone someone is using.
Travelling squad: (Goalkeepers) Van der Sar, Kuszczak, Heaton (Defenders) Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Brown, Neville, O’Shea, Silvestre, Pique (Midfielders) Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Hargreaves, Anderson, Fletcher, Park, Nani (Forwards) Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Welbeck.
May 19th, 2008 at 15:18
Yeah I saw that team, and I must agree with you Conor, I’m not sure the selections of Brown and Rooney are wholly justified. If I was to take off my own Red-tinted glasses and be a proper, unbiased neutral, I would have picked Bacary Sagna ahead of Brown and Emmanuel Adebayor instead of Rooney, who have both had tremendous seasons. Perhaps there is also a case for Mathieu Flamini to be picked ahead of Mascherano, who I feel hass reserved some of his best performances for Europe rather than the Prem…
Ooops….I’ve just revealed myself to be a closet Arsenal supporter havent I??
May 19th, 2008 at 15:22
Ha, did you guys see what Kalou said about Vidic. He claims Vidic is United’s weakest link. Now that’s funny stuff.
May 19th, 2008 at 15:26
Lol Kalou – what a twat! Dumbass!
Real Madrid have just signed Ezequeil Garay, which means that one or both of Cannavaro and Metzelder will be on their way out of the Bernabeu. I wouldn’t mind either of those two as a backup defender, especially Metzelder, who I think can play all across the back four and hence would provide exceptional cover.
May 19th, 2008 at 15:50
LOL, Kalou! Whats he talking about? Vidic is one of our strongest players and will maybe never become a weak link for us! But have you guys heard what Vida said earlier today? He said he wanted a new song, cause he hears that he kills someone in the song. He thinks we sing that because hes from Serbia…
And what does Saha do in that squad if he is injured?
May 19th, 2008 at 15:56
Well, well, this was some news: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1181999.ece
May 19th, 2008 at 16:35
NINO; World class defenders do not sign for teams so that they can be good backups. The solution is to find a talented but young player who will know his role and accept it due to his age and inexperience. Another Pique is required, not the bloody captain of Italy and top CB of Germany. The amazing thing is that Garay is not as good as either of them although one could say that Cannavaro’s form has never been as good at Real. Metzelder has had injury problems but if he goes anywhere, it will be back to Germany. He may be the long term replacement for the aging Lucio at Bayern.
And really boys, who give a shit what Kalou the Ass Clown has to say? I’m amazed he even is capable of speaking English. Both he an Mikel seem to have graduated from the University of Stupid Footballers. It’s not even worth talking about.
As for Alan Hansen, His real love will always be Liverpool but even he knew he couldn’t find more players from that shite side to place on the list so he stuck with North East players. James over Cech? I don’t think so! Brown over any other RB? Why not? I really can’t think of another RB in England that did a better job. Let’s give Wes more credit than that. Mascherano over Ballack, Flamini, Essien, Bentley, Barry? You have got to be joking Hanson? My choice is Ballack (not because of my bias and love for him) because he has been massive in Chelsea’s second half of the season and path to the CL Final. World Class and a great leader as well. He’s everything we need in the center of midfield form an offensive and even defensive point of view. Finally, Rooney over Adebayour? Sorry but no way. Rooney is a great player but even he would admit that this has not been his finest campaign. He’s fought numerous injuries and his form has faltered, especially his finishing. But I’m already to place him on my list for next year. He will return and his goals scoring will improve if a quality striker is bought to take the extra pressure and burden off of his shoulders. He needs to rove around and cause havoc. That is his game. Scoring is really a secondary thing for him. We have all expected it to be the primary thing and he just hasn’t delivered. Regardless of his bias, I can see what Hansen finds in Rooney that places him on the list. But this year he would be 4th or 5th on mine. I’m not so sure I wouldn’t place Tevez above him. He scored more goals and many were late game winners. You have to reward clutch performers. Nevertheless, get Huntelaar Fergie!
May 19th, 2008 at 16:45
Dan; I know you were being sarcastic, but don’t you know that Alan Hansen claims he is a Liverpool supporter? Therefore his team would actually be unbiased as he picked mostly United players. So I don’t understand what you meant through sarcasm.
May 19th, 2008 at 16:48
Hansen’s team isn’t that ridiculous. Sagna over brown perhaps, but there’s been no stand-out right back anyway, so this doesn’t bother me. ( Also, next year, neville will be back and will be first choice. Brown will be dropped and hargreaves won’t have to play right back. It will not be a rotation system of neville, brown and hargreaves. Neville will be a consistent first choice, brown will be used as cover).
Adebayor should be in ahead of rooney, but rooney has performed to a high level this year. Many people here believe he has had a poor season. How? He has missed chances throughout the season, but there are no other weaknesses to his game.
As for the champions league, i hope the game doesn’t prove to be too big for brown or carrick as it would seem they will play. Brown surprised me against barcelona, where i really saw him and hargreaves as weak links. Still, i maintain that, at that level, brown troubles me. Carrick may well be a weak link too at this level. I would be happier with a midfield of scholes and hargreaves.
I hope we play 4-4-2, with ronaldo in his right-sided free role and rooney and tevez up front. These three players play with no fear and while rooney and ronaldo are certain starters, i hope tevez starts the game too as he won’t be fazed. Anderson, for me, gets a look in too for the same reason. It being a champions league final will not bother him in the slightest so i would probably try and find a place for him. I’d imagine fergie will put him on the bench.
Give ronaldo a break. I see nothing wrong with being ambitious and wanting to be recognised as the best in the world. I see nothing wrong with him thinking he is the best in the world. He is not set purely on personal glory. Winning a player of the year award is nowhere near as satisfying as being part of a team which wins trophies. He has said all along that he would like to play in spain one day. He has been honest with everyone at united. He also stayed when he came back from the world cup with a great amount of controversy regarding him and rooney. There is a great team spirit at united too and his teammates all recognise his contribution to the team and regard him as the best player in the world, so he’s obviously not a bad guy. Regardless of how good he is, if he were a prick his teammates would not be singing his praises.
I’m not sure ronaldo is the best player in the world anyway. Messi was easily the best player on the park when we played barcelona. We kept many bodies behind the ball while they were very attack-minded, so there wasn’t much space for messi to play in, while ronaldo had more space and less bodies to play against. Not to mention we have better individual defenders and are a much better defensive unit. Right now, messi’s probably got the best claim for being the best in the world.
May 19th, 2008 at 16:58
RedDevil; That’s nothing new. It’s been clear as day all season that Alves’ days at Sevilla were numbered. About whether we get him or not, that’s debatable? I am getting seriously skittish about signing Latin players. All they ever dream about is Real Frakken Madrid and Bloody Hell Barcelona. No team stuck in a bad weather zone and a Latin cultural dead zone in North England has a chance to ever sign these players and keep them long term, except Real Liverpool. Benitez being a Spaniard can convince most of them to come. Fergie doesn’t have that kind of power with all of them, especially the Spaniards. Portuguese players, obviously, but then again, will they stay once Fergie is gone?
Once again I urge Fergie to sign Micah Richards and start signing players from countries who will want to play for United as their first choice and who can cope with life in Manchester and Northern England without the same childish homesickness the Latins seem to play with.
Europe is littered with quality talent that isn’t South American, Italian, Spanish, Greek or Portuguese. I’ll throw in Africans too because they like the hot weather and continental lifestyle more too. Look for players born in the former Eastern Block, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Scandinavia, France (although I hate the French except Ribery), and Turkey. They will stick with United if successful and chances of them bolting will be less. I also realize that some of these countries do not produce Man Utd caliber players, but all things are cyclical and you never know when Austria will spawn the next Hans Krankl. Ronaldo’s Real Madrid ambitions have really made me question Fergie’s recruitment policies. I think we are looking for players in the wrong region. If Fergie was of Brazilian, Portuguese or Spanish heritage, I’d be more confident. And even though Ronaldo respects and owes his career to him, will that be enough to prevent the lad from going to Spain? I somehow doubt it.
I want players like Solksjaer who wear Red Devil red and who want to remain Red Devils for life. Ambition should mean trying to win as many trophies and awards as a Red Devil player, not saying I have achieved everything I wanted to in England and now it’s time for a new challenge. That just pisses me off. There is no greater ambition than playing for the greatest team in the World. Ronaldo WAKE UP and pinch yourself. You are playing for the Red Devils of Manchester United. Not some tosser side from Newcastle or Birmingham. Respect the team you play for and respect yourself more by staying where you are appreciated and with the team that made you what you are. Going to Madrid is similar to a man leaving his wife of twenty years for an ugly tramp or whore. Hugh Grant’s evening LA escapade comes to mind.
Surely you are better than that. As if he will ever read this.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:01
Tevez, Rooney’s finishing has been poor. His first touch has alluded him ever since he came back from his first injury early in the year. His dribbling has been off form. The only thing he has go right for him is his attitude, work ethic and desire. Finishing and first touch are vital to a striker. And something that has not been his fault has been Fergie’s decision to play him out of position numerous times.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:06
Grognard: How old is Cannavaro? 33, 34? Surely even he, at his age, has got to comprehend that he cannot realistically expect to command an automatic starting place in a top European team anymore. I see no reason why he cannot be signed as a cut-price back up for Rio/Vida-like how we brought in Larsson last year-except maybe his ego, which would perhaps not take too kindly to being an understudy to the best CB partnership in the world. But for sure, if Cannavaro was to come to us then Rio and Vida could learn shitloads from one of the masters of the art of defending.
OK maybe I underestimated Metzelder, and you with your German connections would be in a better position to run the rule over him than me, but I have always thought of him as a utility player in the mould of Phil Neville (I think I got this impression from buying him in Football Manager hehe), which is probably why I underrated him. However, I don’t think he’s world class though.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:23
Rooney’s overall play has been excellent. Goalscoring cannot be classed as a secondary thing for him though. The fact that he found himself on the end of chances every week tells me that he is a goalscorer. He needs to convert more chances, yes, but the most important thing is that he makes the chances. He missed chances all season but he continued to get on the end of more and more. I would have been worried if the chances had dried up, but they didn’t. He didn’t stop getting on the end of chances and he won’t stop now. He will make chances so he will score sometime. He will start scoring on a regular basis. Had he been converting more of his chances this season, without changing any other part of his game at all, we would all be talking about him being the best striker in the league. If everything else he has done this season was exactly the same and he took his chances, we would all consider him a better striker than torres. He has not had a below par season. He has not been struggling for form. He needs to convert more chances. Scoring goals is obviously vital, so i rate abedayor and torres as having better seasons than rooney based on that. They are not better players though and they are not better strikers. Torres has excelled this season. He was never the most prolific striker in spain, but his all round game was excellent. This season he has scored plenty.
Rooneys goalscoring form could all change next season. If it does i’ll be delighted obviously, but if it doesn’t then i won’t be too disappointed, as his overall play will still help the team out a lot. It will change sometime though.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:36
I think the summer off and some serious mental training to do the simple thing will boost Rooney’s relatively poor finishing abilities. As Tevez said above, it’s when the chances dry up that you get worried. That happened to Ruud, whether or not it was his fault was arguable (Giggs and O’Shea in the midfield?) but he wasn’t missing loads of chances, he wasn’t getting any chances. Same thing with Michael Owen for England, he was creating zippo at the beginning of the year, that was the scary thing.
Rooney would still be the first name on the teamsheet for me. But as I’ve said before, not as an out and out striker, but more in the hole. As an aside, when did he completely stop shooting from distance? I used to love watchign defenders close him down 10 yards outside the box cause they knew he could hit em from there, but now he barely ever does, preferring cute slide rule passes or chips.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:40
dont really want to get into a debate on this coz at the end of of the day know one can be dogmatic until after it happens but I honestly believe that Ronaldos possible departure will not be as catastrophic as people think.
To say otherwise would be to seriously place a question mark over SAF and the remaining players who are more than able to adapt to a new system if one was needed.
Cantona, Keane, Beckham and other big players that left the club might not have been as talented as Ronaldo, but they were no less important in the system played then than Ronaldo is today, and lets be honest about it, we havnt really got a set system as such anyway so to say that ronaldo is vital to our system is overstating the case.
Ronaldo at the moment is the most dangerous player in the world, his pace, skill and directness in the last third of the pitch makes him a very important member of our team but he does not control the ebb and flow of a game like Roy Keane used to do and his team play doesnt even come close to Cantonas{ check big Erics stats for yourself, he created nearly as many as he scored}. This current United team are not even the most prolific scoring team that we have had.
The bottom line is this, Ronaldo is an important player at present and its understandable that some people believe that we will go into a bit of a tail spin if he was to leave but having supported United and watched football in general for more than 25 years now, I honestly believe that SAF and the players we have plus the potential signings that we make will adapt and overcome, it might be different to what we see now but we will be a force nonetheless
May 19th, 2008 at 17:46
NINO; Cannavaro at 40 will be as good as most defenders in the Prem. If he leaves Madrid it will be straight for Italy and a big club there. If he ever decided to sit on the bench, it would be for an Italian side. Metzelder is a quality CB. Only Mertesacker of Bremen is higher than him in the German pecking order and that’s because Metzelder was injured a lot this season. He’s closer to Vidic than he is to Phil Neville. 8-0
Tevez; Definition time. A goal scorer is a player who SCORES GOALS. Being at the right time and right place is only have of the battle. You need to finish the job or it’s all pointless. And he does not create enough pure scoring chances in my opinion. To often he is found on the sidelines or outside of the box where strikers do not earn their money. But I do realize that he is special in this regard. He was a better goal scorer when he arrived from Everton than he is now. Injuries and playing unaccustomed roles in a new continental style have hurt him as well as the loss of Ruud van Nistelrooy. A Huntelaar would go a long way to helping him become a better goal scorer because defenders won’t key on him so much because they will have more pressing business in the box marking a true goal poacher. Adebayour is not a better player than Rooney but I dare say Torres is. At least this year he was much better. And trust me, that hurts me to say that. One thing is for certain, that Rooney will improve but that he did show limitations and weaknesses in his game this season.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:49
Tevez – Your so right about Rooney mate!. If he had scored just from all his opportunities one on one, his goals count would have nearly doubled m’thinks!. Isn’t that the difference though between the top class strikers as opposed to the good striker?. The top class striker scored from +90% of his chances each and every time. Rooney has done quite well at scoring against the top teams though, BUT HAS TORRES?. That’s a genuine question by the way, as I don’t watch L’pool matches, I don’t know his goals ratio against top class opposition. With Ronnnie, in the top games, he often has 2/3 defenders surrounding him whenever he is bearing down on goal. And to be absolutely honest, I think that is probably the only weak area of Ronnie’s game – HE IS EASILY OUTMUSCLED, AND EASILY BROUGHT DOWN. That is not the case with terrier Tevez or Bulldog Rooney!. Ronnie works so hard on his game, and if he improved in the not being outmuscled, imagine how perfect his game would be. He genuinely would be untouchable and unbeatable. Wonder if Wayne goes over videos of his game, to see what always happened in the one on ones and correct it. We always tend to think that top class marksmen are born gifted, but as the great Ole says, a good proportion of it is LEARNED, not natural.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:53
Just to clear up this theory that Rooney was a better goalscorer when he was at Everton;
Rooney – Everton – 67 appearances – 15 goals. One in about 4 and a half games.
Manchester United – 127 appearances – 53 goals. One in 2 and a half.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:58
Is Saha really injured??? Because on their is no news on the official site which actually says he travelled
May 19th, 2008 at 18:04
Fred; When Cantona, Keane and Beckham left the team was still caught up in a standard 4-4-2 and playing more English style football. Those players were easy to replace. Beckham was replaced by a better player, Ronaldo. Keane has been replaced by Carrick and Hargo as well as Anderson. And Cantonal was replaced by Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke with Paul Scholes playing more of the Cantona role which for me was more like an AMF or second striker. But who out there is better or near equal to Ronaldo? Also, when in history can you remember United designing their entire offensive style to suit a specific player? Well that is exactly what has happened with Ronaldo. Even Cantona never had that kind of free reign. Individual talent like that comes around once in a generation for a specific team. In the case of Barca, they were very lucky to get a Messi shortly after buying a Ronaldinho.
So, if we lose Ronny, how do we replace him? Do we buy multiple players or try to buy one player to replace him. Do we change our style of play now that he is gone? Look at how woeful Barcelona was this year without Ronaldinho and how poor AC Milan were when Kaka was injured. Those teams were built around those players. When they were not playing or injured, the teams went into a collective funk and malaise. Milan recovered and scored plenty of goals after Kaka came back, but it was too late to secure a CL spot. Ronaldinho’s mysterious absence and questionable behavior has crippled the once mighty Barcelona. Even with Messi on the pitch, the team was out of joint and collectively devoid of ideas. This will happen to United too if Ronaldo leaves too soon. Gergie needs a head start or a proper warning to be allowed to make the transition a lot smoother. We will need to change our style back in to something that more players can conform to and we may need to lower our expectations regarding Europe especially, until the new system and new players get accustomed to their new surroundings and style of football. Our present players will have to get used to attacking without Ronaldo as a target man. These are not easy things to do. And lets remember, Fergie is not here forever. A total restructuring of our offense may only succeed if he is at the helm. How long will that be for? Pray Ronaldo stays until Fergie calls it quits. Hopefully that won’t be for a few more years. Maybe by that time another wunderkind will emerge and maybe United can persuade him to sign with them. Until then I’m keeping my fingers crossed. For me losing Ronaldo within the next year would be a cataclysm of epic proportions. He’s just that damned good.
May 19th, 2008 at 18:07
Learn to read Conor. I said when he arrived FROM Everton. Remember he scored a wonderful hattrick for us in his first game.
May 19th, 2008 at 18:11
re: Rooney
ONLY 53 goals since he joined us? That’s quite shocking actually, considering he’s been with us for four seasons. I would have expected him to be in the 60-70’s. Heck, Ronaldo practically scores that amount in one season! Ok, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration, but Ronny boy must be nearing the 100-goal mark for United soon right? So, in five seasons he’s kind of achieved what the likes of Giggs, Scholes & Beckham took a decade or more to do. Amazing.
May 19th, 2008 at 18:14
[Grognard and Conor]
I was off my system and this thing blows up again.
I read through all this and it seems either of you won’t let this slip.
Now that the thing has run its course I can’t let any of you get into trash talk again.
The last comment “Learn to read” was again taunting, I haven’t deleted it, but it was unwarranted. You could have just said “I said when he arrived FROM Everton.” I am pointing this out because it could grow again into a new war here.
So stop it. Grognard and Conor I don’t want anything more to be talked on this. I am having the final word here. You don’t have to email me about this nor do you have to comment about it over here.
I’ve left you to fight enough with each other. So you lost the right to defend yourself for the moment.
End of this, start talking about United.
May 19th, 2008 at 18:28
Just read on the Telegraph site that Lubos Michel, the guy who awarded Liverpool that ‘ghost goal’ against Chelski three years ago, will ref the match on Wednesday. A good omen perhaps??
May 19th, 2008 at 18:49
Why cant we bring back Van Nistelrooy??? he has scored 4 goals in 3 games since he came back from injury and he could give us 2 good years.
May 19th, 2008 at 18:56
[saudi red devil]
Because when someone falls into the bad books of SAF there is usually no going back.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:05
Saudi Red Devil; RVN burned his bridges long ago. Not only did he force Fergie’s hand but he also criticized Fergie for months after his departure. The chances of RVN coming back to United are about as good as Rooney playing for the LA Galaxy. Slim and none. Also, Fergie is not in the habit of signing players who are old unless it’s as a bench role player for a short period of time. Henrik Larsson comes to mind.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:09
Well it was just wishfull thinking and I was thinking of a short period of time, anyway I think we need a player like him Higuain seems really good at the momment Villa too Im a fan of Berbatovs but I think Huntelaar will be the next RVN.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:09
But Grognard he is a form player, we all know that. He didn’t score again for another 10 or so matches I thought, before he scored another 2 goals against Bolton possibly. I highly doubt he has regressed in terms of finishing ability, although many people do believe this to be the case. And I did actually intentionally not say that to you directly Grognard, just because someone here had said before that he was a better goalscorer when he was with Everton, and your comment reminded me of it. Seriously.
Nino; I’m fairly sure that does not include the goals he has scored in cup competitions, I will check up on it. Yes he has scored 82 goals now, in 191 games.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:13
BREAKING NEWS:
Ive just read in an Arsenal blog that Wenger wants Saha, now I seriuosly think its not true but what do you think??
May 19th, 2008 at 19:16
Nino – when I heard who the ref and linesmen were, that becomes the only thing that worries me about this match. This ref has had to live with his mistake since the L’Pool goal award mistake!. There is a probability that will play on his mind coming into this game, and United may be given none of the close decisions in this game as a result!. That is just a thought!!!. Another thing, the officials are from the Eastern Bloc countries, and Abramovich will love that I think, so don’t think Chelski will be worried really. I am not suggesting for one minute, that anything untoward will go on, I just think that Chelski will be more pleased about the choice of officials than us that’s all. After all, I don’t believe the ref will want to make any more catastrophic mistakes like the one he made at Anfield, so we will see a lot more hesitancy about awarding any dodgy decisions against the Blues. Just wish it wasn’t this particular ref chosen, that’s all!.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:20
[saudi red devil]
Depends. On which Arsenal blog did you read it?
May 19th, 2008 at 19:24
Im sure you wouldnt know it, its an arabic blog.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:46
Saudi Red Devil; I doubt he would want another injury prone striker with Van Persie already at Arsenal.
May 19th, 2008 at 20:21
If both Piqué and Silvestre leave, as seems likely, perhaps we could get Veloso. He’s been playing as a holding midfielder of late, and that’s perhaps his best position because of his passing ability, but he started his career as a CB and has played well at LB on occasion. He’s not that tall for a CB (6ft2 I think) but he’s got great timing and good tactical awareness, and as a LB he’s not the quickest guy but he’s a great crosser as well as being very good at free kicks. He would be able to cover these positions and since he’s still young I think he’d be happy play wherever he’s needed or sit on the bench for a season or so. The only problem might be the price, as I think he’s valued at 15-20m.
May 19th, 2008 at 20:59
OWL; I think Veloso is a strong possibility because of his versatility. Other than Ronaldo I don’t worry about anybody leaving the club because i know Fergie will find a player who is better.
May 19th, 2008 at 20:59
Owl_of_Mierva:
Yes or we could just rely on O’Shea to play that role as he has done wonderfully over the years!
If only we had signed Bale last summer, he could have given Evra cover and been a useful tool at LM……… saying that he has been injured all season nearly!
From the pics on manutd.com it looks like Saha was boarding the plane to Moscow! So that does throw up more debate about who makes the final 18!
I’ll paste what I put earlier in the post -
These 14 are def gonna be in the final 18:
1 VDS
2 Kusziack
3 Brown
4 Rio
5 Vidic
6 Evra
7 O’Shea
8 Carrick
9 Hargreaves
10 Scholes
11 Ronaldo
12 Giggs
13 Tevez
14 Rooney
Then it is 4 from:
G.Neville
Silvestre
Pique
Anderson
Nani
Park
Fletcher
Saha
I dont know how Fergie is gonna pick from that im clueless at to what he may do. Would he leave out Nani and Anderson due to inexperience????????
May 19th, 2008 at 21:04
[Ryan]
Those four will be Anderson Nani Park and Saha/Fletcher. It would be unfair on the others to put Neville and Silvestre on the bench. And as for Pique, O’Shea’s versatility and experience would mean he would be left out.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:08
I dont think he will only have O’Shea as his defensive cover on the bench(yes I know Hargreaves can go right back, Brown CB…)but I think Silvestre may be on the bench, played well away to Chelsea at the bridge last month.
Its not about being fair its about winning the Champions League.
(Scholes is the exception to the rule but he would have started even if he did play in ‘99)
May 19th, 2008 at 21:14
[Ryan]
In this particular case being fair is the same as wanting to win the CL. Neville should not be on the bench because despite his experience he’s had hardly any match practice. So you pick your players who have done well. That’s what I mean when I say ‘be fair’. O’Shea almost always does his job when off the bench. He is more consistent than Silly. Plus he can play anywhere, especially if things don’t go well for us and desperation creeps in he could play up front.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:17
Oh and new post up.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:17
And if Owen plays, we can use him as a back-up defender too.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:19
And I dont think Neville will be involved. All the other players have done well for Fergie!
I bet he is just gonna pick out of a hat……
May 19th, 2008 at 21:24
RR – He can also play Goalkeeper – THE CAT remember? lol!.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:26
[craig mc]
How can I forget that!
May 19th, 2008 at 21:27
Craig mc:
Good point! Lets scrap Kusziacks place and chuck in another attacker!
May 19th, 2008 at 21:34
O and all you fans who would normally be at the match if it was played in England, where will you all be watching the game?. At home with lots of friends round supping ale, or down the pub with all the local supporters wherever you live!. One thing is for sure, those of us who would have been watching it in Manchester Centre on BIG SCREEN are disappointed this year – thanks to the dew Rangers fans behaving like hoodllums!. Wherever you watch, and with whoever – enjoy!. Hope we are celebrating a win long into the night. If we win, a lot of the local pubs will be having ‘all night lock ins.’ Not good for those having to go to work after an all nighter, and with MEGA hangovers – haha!.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:37
grognard, the reason I dont want to get into a big debate on this is because I could state various reasons and different opinions on why I believe United will be OK after Ronaldo is gone and then you, as you have done previous can state the problems arrising from his departure but the reality is simply this, we really cant be certain how it will pan out until it actually happens, at this stage in proceedings both opinions are purely hypothetical.
Having said that, heres a few problems that I have with your argument. For the vast majority of this season we have played 4 4 2, I agree that it is a more fluid 4 4 2 with players interchanging but basically it has been a 4 4 2. To prove this I will choose some of our bigger games when tactics are more important.
Arsenal away Rooney and Tevez up front with 4 in midfield, Liverpool away Rooney and Tevez up front and 4 in midfield, Barca at home Ronaldo and Tevez up front with 4 in midfield, Chelsea at home Rooney and Tevez up front with 4 in midfield, this has been our best system this year and the one that gives us the greatest attacking threat in the big games which was shown even in the home game against Arsenal when they killed us for over an hour until SAF paired Rooney and Tevez together after bringing Tevez on as a sub.
So to say that Ronaldo would be harder to replace than our previous greats because we play some sort of magical system that only he can make happen it completely false.
Also by allowing Ronaldo to roam free in a system that is basically 4 4 2 has positive and negative consequences and one of the negatives is this, because Ronaldo is freer than most of our other players it means that a lot of our attacking play is is channelled through him which begs the question, because we play a system that seeks to maximize Ronaldos talents, are we getting the best out of our other attacking players, eg Arsenal FA Cup.
My point is this if Ronaldo was to leave and he was replaced by someone like Villas Ashley Young, Youngs contribution individually might not be as dominant and as considerable as Ronaldos, but it might improve us as a team.
Groggy, I respect your opinion mate, and there is loads of other things i could say that I think strengthens my case but at the end of the day it would be nothing more than pure speculation on my part plus I only got this laptop about 6 months ago and what would take you 5 mins to write takes me an hour.
Football is a very funny game and sometimes what is percieved as taking a step back is actually setting the stage for taking two steps forward which I honestly believe could happen if Ronaldo left. Lets hope it doesnt happen for 2 or 3 more years, but if it does it might actually improve us.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:41
48hrs….
I’m more confident about the final with us having won the league but generally I fear SAF may get the line-up wrong(blasphemy i know).
The thing is its either 4-4-2 or 4-3-3(4-5-1), now i’m sure I echo everyone who wants Utd to get at Chelski. Utds greatest strength since i can remember was their flying forward play but will this be a cagey defensive Utd??
I just feel if we go in like we did against Barca we will be playing Chelsea’ game(boring confined aggresive EPL football) LETS GET AT ‘EM.
I hope TEVEZ starts; It’ll be a damn shame to watch him rot on the bench after being immense against Barca. This means I would play 4-4-2 but with a joker card.
Owen Hargreves- I like anyone whose seen Chelski believe there whole team revolves around a tight middle 3 bullying teams into fielding a similar 3(one a DM). This is just Chelski taking an offensive player out of there oppositions line-up. They have the most powerfull central spine in world football(hurts to say) ESSIEN BALLACK LAMPARD, but you can play around them if we have a positive line up 4-4-2 we will control possesion. The BACK-UP plan_B i suggest is Hargreaves starting RM(shock i know).
Owen is versatile and if we need to go 4-3-3 he can fill that hole(DM), I just feel he can do Parks job as well as playing a central role.
Ryan- You gotta add Park he is a defo!! In fact he may start depending on what tactics SAF goes for.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:48
All in all to clarify confusion i would go with>>4-4-2
gk VDS
rb BROWN
cb FERDY
cb VIDA
lb EVRA
rm OWEN
cm CARRICK
cm SCHOLES
lw RONALDO
cf TEVEZ
cf ROONEY..
SUBS- pig, o’shea, ando, park, fletcher, giggsy, saha??
leaving out
nani- great player but…inexpeiance, this game may be a cagey battle~does he have the mentality??
silvestre- him or O’shea really i love sheasy though
neville- match time>> he ain’t played enough sorry chap(hes got a medal its not that harsh is its??)
pique- better options and inexperiance i’m afraid..
SAF will get it write and surprise us all!!
C’mon you reds!!
May 19th, 2008 at 21:54
Craig mc:
Pub or Home, thats a question i’ve been pushing around all day, whatever happens the alcohol will be flowing and hopefully, as you say, we will be celebrating all night long….
Getting very very excited now, singing united songs to myself…. if i close my eyes i could be in the Bishop Blaze……..
May 19th, 2008 at 21:55
Fred the Red, you fill me with great optimism about how we would cope as a team should the Magician Ronnie decide to leave us in the next couple of years. Good insight mate, regarding the outcome of some of the big matches when we play 4-4-2 .
May 19th, 2008 at 22:01
Ryan – the Bishop Blaze, LOL!. You keep singing them United songs mate!.
May 19th, 2008 at 22:35
craig mc, there are other world class players at our club and whose to say that a formation or system cant be devised after Ronny leaves that is even more effective than the one we play at the moment. The most recent example of this is Arsenal after Henry was sold, coz lets be honest about it, it wasnt Arsenals football that let them down, it was the size of thier squad.
With a few good signings United would be just fine if Ronny left, maybe even better than they are now mate.
May 19th, 2008 at 23:16
Whilst the game maybe won in midfield what are the chances that essien plays at right back? He is far less effective playing RB which would be good for us if he starts there
May 19th, 2008 at 23:20
I hear you Fred the Red!. If Ronnie (God forbid), ever got injured and was out for any length of time, from the 4-4-2 formations you mentioned in the top games, then I could feel confident from the evidence you shared in earlier posts. And yes, we could come up with other effective systems with the great players we have, and Fergie has played some odd systems this season lol. It got some other players talents noted though didn’t it?. Particularly Hargo. I watched him play for England, and a few times for Bayern, but I never realised just how mighty he is at those pinpoint, magic passes into the box, and that from the left or the right side. As good as Becs I feel. So yes, we have the wherewithal to survive Ronnie, but his style and majesty, and certainly his many saving goals this season, will be very greatly missed!.
May 19th, 2008 at 23:24
Don’t know why this didnt get added to the post before…
My lineup would be:
VDS
Brown Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Hargreaves Carrick Scholes Park
Rooney
Bench: Kuszczak O’Shea Fletcher Anderson Giggs Saha Tevez
If Saha injures himself whilst getting off the plane then i would replace him with Nani
May 20th, 2008 at 0:16
Fred the Red; Honestly mate I have no problem with your theory. You could be right but then again, a lot of things have to go our way if Ronaldo was to leave. We would need luck in the transfer arena. We need to hope Fergie sticks around because honestly, I don’t like our transition and potential to recover without him. And finally, if Fergie doesn’t stay, the person who replaces him will be equally as capable of doing a fine job. Now having said that, I am very concerned about how long Fergie will stick around. With or without Ronaldo.
If Ronaldo leaves (if and when he leaves) will that mark a mass exodus of other Latin players from the club? Not if Fergie is around and less of a chance if Queiroz stays to take over. But what if the next manager is O’Neill or Hughes for example? Can they keep that core nucleus of foreign talent happy and content or will we have to start from scratch and go on a major selling and buying binge? Bottom line is Ronaldo might leave very soon or he will leave when Fergie does. Honestly, I have no confidence in the present ownership to know what to do once Fergie is gone. Signing a take charge manager who will have a strong influence on upper management when it comes to the selling and buying of players is essential. As is getting a man who knows how to run day to day operations that are conducted in training and preparation that will allow an easy transition both on and off the pitch. The more I think about it, the more I feel the only man who can take over our team in a period of major turmoil and not skip a beat is none other than “The Special One” Jose Mourinho. He’s a proven winner and he would insure our continued success.
Folks we are not that far from the end of two highly significant era’s in the club’s history. The end of the Ronaldo era and more importantly, the end of the Ferguson era. Over the past 25 years players have come and gone and United hasn’t skipped a beat because the man in charge was Fergie and he knew just what to do. He was the the one constant in the club’s revolving door. Well, he may go in the next year or two and that honestly is causing me more anxiety than the loss of Ronaldo. Losing Ronaldo at the same time we lose Fergie I think could be calamitous. It’s more than I think the team and the club could bare. We need to know how much longer Fergie plans on staying and if it’s not for long then it might be advisable to sell Ronny now in order to give Fergie a couple of years to right the ship in a proper direction before he leaves. Just some concerned paranoia from a scared supporter.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:44
I agree that if Fergie leaves he has to leave us with a solution for replacing Ronaldo. This is the third great team he has built. But it is built around the mercurial talents of Ronaldo with the rest of our stars a supporting cast.
Of course in a way Ronaldo leaving makes it simpler for us. We can play a simpler system as we do not have the same need to accomodate Ronaldo.
Perhaps a return to 4-4-2 with traditional wingers who cross the ball rather than cutting inside and a target man such as Berbatov/Huntelaar. Nani’s crossing ability is perfect for that and maybe Bentley or Young on the other wing.
We need a template for the 4th Man U team (post Ronaldo) that will stay more or less together for a number of years so we can achieve global domination, and build on hopefully our second Champions League trophy in less than 10 years!
May 20th, 2008 at 2:01
Grognard, I agree with you you about SAF leaving. I dont think the problem would have been quite as big if there wasnt as many Portuguese and Brazilian players at the club which makes me think that the reins will eventually pass to Carlos Queiroz who will bring a level of continuity to the changeover. However, I would be lying if I said that CQ fills me with 100 percent confidence and theres no doubt that the combination of SAF and Ronaldo leaving at the same time could spell trouble. Some serious long term planning must be done before that happens. I think SAF would more than likely have looked at what happened when Sir Matt Busby eventually retired and I would be surprised if he hasnt already given some thought to these issues.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:29
Groggy, Mourinho would tick most of the boxes required but for me he has one fatal flaw, his teams are no doubt winning teams, but are definately hard to watch and Im not sure our fans would stomach it like the Chelsea fans did.
As Im sure craig mc would verify, being a Salford Lad, the hardcore supporters at OT like to see good football and I dont think that would happen under Jose.
It might sound fickle, but one of the things that makes United United, is thier philosophy of expansive football and I cant see that changing any time soon.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:55
Fred; I’m not so sure that Mourinho isn’t capable of altering his tactical style if need be. He used a system at Chelsea that suited that team well. I doubt very much that he would lack the flexibility to change if the need came up. All great managers have that ability. Certainly Fergie’s tactical and even managerial style has changed over the years. Just go back and watch a game from say 1994 and tell me if United don’t play the game completely different. Back then the ball was constantly in the air. Now it hardly ever leaves the ground. Today their is more running with the ball, back then there was more chasing the ball. The times have changed haven’t they?
As much as I don’t approve of Mourinho’s tactical approach at times, the fact is the man is a winner and he can generally out coach anybody in the business on a given day. His players love him and are extremely loyal to him, and he is able to adapt on the fly and make tactical decisions in a game that can turn a deficit or negative in to a positive. He’s also a great personality who in my opinion is good for the game. I hated him when he was with Chelsea but that was more from envy and a bit of jealousy. I knew he was good and it was clear that in some ways, he was Fergie’s equal. Queiroz would be the smoother transition but I too am not sure if he will get the results on the pitch that Fergie got. I’m sure Mourinho would.
Their’s a 10% chance that after the game on Wednesday that Fergie may retire. If we win it would be a great time for him to say that’s it, I’m finished. He probably won’t but on the chance he does, I’m kind of gad Mourinho hasn’t made his mind up yet about where he will manage. Who knows, maybe he knows something that we all don’t know? Perhaps he has talked to Fergie over a glass of wine and Fergie told him to hold off until after Wednesday. Maybe we all will get the shock of the century when Fergie calls it a day and proclaims Mourinho the next manager of Man Utd. Stranger things have happened. Anyway, that’s my little fantasy take for the year.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:57
Fred I like exciting fast and entertaining football but the most entertaining thing in the game is to see your team win. Don’t you agree. And if you do than Mourinho surely does tick all the boxes. Winning is the bottom line.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:19
Wooo Colver, you got eyes that see mate – Nani does indeed have great passing ability into the box. That is why he has assists only one short of the Roon this season!. I will be shit sad if he is not in the final 18 in Moscow, but I will live lol!.
I just heard from friends this morning, that they are showing the game on the big screen at MEN Arena. I might go and join the throngs of the faithful, BUT ONLY IF THE BARS AT THE MEN ARE OPEN. They should be, because MEN has tight security, and are used to dealing with boozy crowds. Not that I am a big boozer, 3 pints, and I am easily wasted, haha – LIGHTWEIGHT!.
Fred the Red, you are right about the kind of football we all expect and love to see off United, that’s why we have so many fans all over the world though isn’t it?. It’s the way we play it – haha!.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:21
I’d rather David May took over rather than Jose if im honest with you! I dont want him anywhere near our club. Dont like the fella and dont like the way his Chelsea and Porto teams played. We can be successful under someone else.