Jun 11
Playing Devil’s Advocate on Ronaldo
By that, I mean Ronaldo’s advocate. I don’t view him as the Devil, but some of you do so I thought you’d like the connection.
A lot has been written on this blog alone over the last couple of weeks about the Ronaldo situation, culminating in Red Ranter’s superbly passionate piece. I have stayed out of it in the comments, firstly because of the lack of hard news on the subject and secondly because of the level of emotion running through. In the midst of it all, I don’t think anyone was prepared to step back and think it through more fully.
Maybe you’re still not, and I expect, if not flaming, then some strong contradictory opinions to this post. But what I’m going to do is explain why the Real move is good for Ronaldo, and point out some silver linings for us. Then, just to maximise the controversy, I’m going to give a super-long-term view of the situation that most of you will hate but which I think we should hope for despite ourselves.
The Case for the Move
We have established, I think, that Ronaldo’s first priority is Ronaldo. I also think we always knew that was the case, even if we tried to ignore it. So here are the arguments for why Ronaldo should join Madrid:
1. Last season was the peak. Last season, as we all know, CR scored 42 goals, won every award going, and we won the PL and the CL. Hard to see how it can get much better than that. Say next season Ronaldo scored 25 goals and we win the Premier League but lose in the semis of the CL. Good season, not great. But a huge comedown for CR - and you all know how much the English media love to tear down someone they have built up. Start a line of questions with “was 07/08 a flash in the pan”, and you’ll get the idea.
2. The referees. Referees in England have a permanent downer on Ronaldo. There’s no two ways about that - there will always be four or five blatant free-kicks or penalties a game which are not given to him because of his reputation. Massively frustrating for the fans to watch, but even more so for the player himself. In England, more than in any other league in the world, diving is hated and physicality is applauded and encouraged. It is quite the reverse in Spain, where diving is seen as “cleverness” and players are protected by officials from roughhousing tactics.
3. The playing conditions. Similar to the point above, but in Spain Ronaldo will rarely find a man up his arse whenever he receives the ball. Nor will that many wingers track back to double up on CR with their full back. Far more often than in England, he will have time to take a touch and turn, and when he does that he doesn’t often need support. Also, no winter away games at Blackburn on a mudbath pitch - weather/pitch conditions will favour CR’s game far more often than here.
4. The hero worship. We love (or loved) Ronaldo. We thought he was superb, and adored having him play for us. But nobody at United is bigger than the team - nobody has been allowed to be whilst Fergie is around. You can tell that CR wants the hero worship, the iconic status, the unreconstructed worship from everyone. He will never get that at United, because the adoration has to be spread round a lot of players. Madrid are buying him to be bigger than the team, to be their brand leader - and nobody’s going to be allowed to say a bad word about the most expensive player ever in the world.
5. The money. Say no more. It’s a factor, and love for United (I don’t doubt that he has lots of this, by the way), when balanced against his desire to play for Real, isn’t worth £100k a week after tax to him plus increased endorsements to him.
[End Devil's Advocate mode.] Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the situation any more than the rest of you. The thought of the team running out in August without our number 7 leaves me feeling empty inside. But I understand why it makes sense to him, and that makes me not hate him.
Yep, sorry - I don’t hate him. Can’t - I love watching wingers more than any other type of player (Giggs, Sharpe and Kanchelskis all rate at the top of my list of players I enjoyed watching), and in Ronaldo I’ve had the chance to watch possibly the best there’s ever been in my team’s colours for five years. I loved watching him even when he was mind-blowingly frustrating. I’m just unspeakably disappointed about the situation.
The chasing pack
I’m not going to try to pretend that it can be a good thing if Ronaldo goes. It can’t, and it isn’t. One big factor in damage limitation is getting another year out of Ronaldo to give our youngsters a chance to come through and the management a genuine chance to plan for life without him.
But even if he goes straight away, I don’t think it’s as bad as all that in terms of winning things. Not because we’re going to have £x million to spend on great players, but because you have to look at where the chasing pack is.
Arsenal — have already lost Flamini, will almost certainly lose Hleb and may lose Adebayor. Will not sign any proven, top class talent.
Chelski — will almost certainly lose Drogba, will probably lose Anelka and are going to have all their best players (other than Ballack) relentlessly linked to Mourinho at Inter, probably with good reason. Will bring in expensive and high profile replacements, but you need a coach as good as Mourinho to bind them into a top class side, and given Abramovich’s shoddy treatment of JM and then Grant, they’re not going to get anyone good enough.
Liverpool — may not lose any big players, but they only have two to start with. Clearly have to sell to buy big (especially with their owners in crisis), and are overvaluing their players as a result. £10m for Scott Carson? £15m for Peter Crouch? Don’t be silly. Most high profile signing could be…Gareth Barry.
Barca — likely to have another season in transition with a new coach and some big players leaving.
AC Milan — didn’t qualify for the Champions League.
Inter Milan — who knows what Jose can do? Dark horse for the CL.
Real Madrid — could only be strengthened by Ronaldo, but still likely to underachieve in Europe.
Bayern Munich — wouldn’t dare comment with some knowledgeable Bayern fans around, perhaps they could give us a short assessment of Bayern’s chances next year in Europe.
I could go on. But we have some great players who are likely to get better next year, and as the best side in Europe we can attract exceptional players for whatever money we have to spend. We will go backwards with Ronaldo gone, but no further backwards than anyone else we are competing with.
I want him back again
Here, just to give you one last thing to chew on, is something I haven’t seen anywhere in the comments but I really believe. If he goes to Real, there’s a good chance it will go wrong for him for all the reasons RR mentioned on Saturday. And if that happens, I want him to come straight back to us, having fulfilled his boyhood dream and realised it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Reach back into your memories, and remember Mark Hughes - it can be like that.
By mixing hope and reality, I would like CR to play one more season for us, then go to Real whilst he’s still worth gigabucks, underachieve there for 2 seasons and then come back to aid the post-Fergie rebuilding process. As I said, I can’t hate him, and I don’t want to. We can fall out with Madrid, but let’s not fall out with Cristiano too.
I’ll be active in this comments thread, and then I too am going to shut up about Ronaldo until further hard evidence emerges.
[Editor's note: On a related note, the Sun is reporting that they have uncovered "shocking", "exclusive" snaps of Ronaldo meeting ex-United and current Madrid fitness coach Walter di Salvo while holidaying in Rome. A closer look will however indicate that it happened in January. So unless it was Calderon or someone big, and the fact that it was the Sun, I wouldn't buy into this. Although expect this news to blow up and run in all papers. Of course, if some truth does come out of this and it's not a chance meeting then you know what reaction to expect from me. - RR]
Related items from Red Rants:- Do you like Rio Ferdinand?
- Rossi’s place at Manchester United
- RoundUp: Community Shield, VDS, Heinze, Tevez, Rhain Davis
- Rooney Ready For Big Year
- Man Utd Headlines: 25 May 2007
Tags: Opinions/Columns
June 11th, 2008 at 10:30
I used to believe all the hate filled ronaldo comments and thought we should let him go. But the fact remains that was and is our best player. Rio was right when he said that Fergie has got a team together that can win alot, but they have to saty together. Ronaldo leaving would add another year to this. I wouldnt let him go unless he rebels. Also, even if he is forcefully kept, i dont see him underperforming on purpose. He is too proud a player on the field to do that.
Also, all the squads that you have mentioned who are losing players is all the more reason to keep him. We might just be invincible next season.
He may not repeat what he did last season but what he brings to the squad is alot. This squad is a top notch finisher and an ACM away from being complete
June 11th, 2008 at 10:36
We don’t even have to look as far back as Sparky. Even Carlos Queiroz came back to United.
But if Ronaldo’s heart is not in it, like some Argentine who now plays in white, it’s just best to just forget about him.
Knowing the way drama surrounds United, we’ll face Real in the Champions League next season and prove decisively his ever more likely move to Real will be for nought.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:49
I’m sure Ronaldo’s opinion is that he is happy to stay but if Utd want to sell he will be happy to go. I can’t help thinking his value is peaking right now so it’s perhaps a good time to sell, especially if he has a cracking Euro 2008. It’s just a shame that Fergie has built a great young side which should get better in the next 2-3 seasons and Ronaldo wants to jump ship.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:49
Well put Penguin, for me the only feeling we should have as United fan’s is dissapointment that he doesn’t actually want to stay and become the legend he has mentioned in the past. That was always the ‘dream’ for us - a team that grew together, based on Rooney/Ronaldo that would become a dominant force for years. A team that showed togetherness, loyalty and spirit. A sum greater than its parts and all that.
And he has gone and ruined that dream. I think that’s the reason people are so bitter. There are very, very few clubs that could even have that dream. I would argue only United in England could do it, Barca and Real in Spain, maybe Bayern in Germany and the big 3 in italy could hope to achieve that. This is because these clubs are viewed as the pinnacle of the sport. The kind of club you don’t leave until you’re asked to. Where you feel proud and lucky to be playing where you are, where you never wish of some club calling and asking you to join them. For most players, United is a club like that. Certainly Ferdinand, Rooney, Ruud, Schmeicel are examples of world class talents who felt like United was home. Ronaldo just has a view that he has one more step to go. So let him walk off of it. It shouldn’t worry us.
The real question is who/what do we do to replace him. The biggest problem is that our squad is quality at the moment, and changing to many faces would probably disrupt it more than help it. I don’t have an answer. I hope Fergie does.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:57
Yes, there are reasons for him to want to leave, but there are also several for him to want to stay:
He’s at the club that made him, who he is today, and he just signed a new contract a year ago, so it’s not like he doesn’t want to be here. He still loves United.
Real Madrid will probably take him anytime, so he could play a couple more years here and then move on to fullfil his childhood dream.
He’s at the best team in the world, which is still young. At Real he would be part of a team of aging stars and no real young talent. Obviously that’s not entirely true, because they have players like Robben (constantly injured), Robinho (not developing), Sneijder (great player in the making), Ramos (great young player), Pepe (great young player), and obviously Casillas and a bunch of youngsters from Argentina that no one really knows the potential of (personally I don’t rate them). But their star players are Raul (turns 31 in June), Rvn (32 in July), Cannavaro (35 in September), Heinze (just 30), Guti (32 in October), and they’re all deteriorating slowly. Obviously Ronaldo would be good for this team, but the overall talent for the future is just not there.
The way I see it, there’s a really good chance that Ronaldo will stay, until SAF quits, because he knows how much SAF has meant in his progression. At that time, Real’s team may look better suited for the future, and then he’d leave for a team with much bigger possibility of winning trophees (which is also very important to him), and Ronaldo would still have a lot of good years left in him.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:58
Top article! Many of my feelings towards the matter are evident in what you’ve written. Like you I feel ‘unspeakably disappointed about the situation’ and I can’t/won’t hate the player either. I must say that we must ultimately respect his decision and I do believe that when he does leave, he will be back playing for United in the not to distant future.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:19
Simple solution :
Sell C. Ronaldo ! Bring us Kaka, and we’ll win CL again !
June 11th, 2008 at 11:28
@Tomas - I think you contradicted yourself slightly. Yes, CR could go anytime, but he will want to go when he thinks he has a chance of winning things. In 2 years, many of the players you mention could be on the way out and Real could be facing another spell in the wilderness. He wants to go there and be successful, not do a Beckham.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:01
The fact that his mum and brother have come out and said he wants to move, and he hasn’t denied these statements, means , yes, he does want the move (This wasn’t totally clear at the beginning of all this nonsense). He even said as much himself.
So in my mind nothing can ever be the same again, if he stays there will be a horrible feeling amongst fans and probably his team mates too. Bad news for team harmony.
If he leaves, it messes the team up, so what’s to be done?
If he says he’s sorry(stop laughing
)and says he really wants to play for United, he can stay, all is forgiven. But honestly, I think he needs to go…so he gets what he wants, Real get what they want.
Now this is were strategy needs to come into it, something United are not renowned for…Teach those #uckers a lesson (I blame Madrid and his family more than Ronaldo, he’s still immature), a message to anyone else who wants to act on a selfish and stupid whim, everyone love(d)(s) the guy, he’s with the best team in Europe, he’s with a legendary manager! It’s sick!!
June 11th, 2008 at 12:05
(Just posted this elsewhere so I can cut&paste)
Can’t believe the fuss being made of this Ronaldo business. Jeez, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on. HE JUST WANTS A PAY RISE!! He’s had a good season, lauded as the word’s No.1 and wants a salary commensurate with his status (he currently earns less than fellow penalty-bottler JT of Chelsea). Fair enough I say. Roy Keane and others have had to hold the club to ransom to get their way, and I expect CR to succeed in his quest. The fact that Real are (stupidly) forcing up United’s wage bill is what’s really irritating the OT suits. They’ll cave into Ronaldo’s demands, though. They’ll have to. There’s no way they’ll let CR leave, especially not to RM. Don’t believe this “my heart is in Spain” nonsense peddled by Marca. The lad’s a smart operator, he’s a red, and he’ll be with us for a while yet. Get your house on it.
And stop slagging him off!
June 11th, 2008 at 12:10
I really don’t care whether he goes or not. As far as I’m concerned a player who thinks he’s bigger than the club should be thrown out whatsoever. We did it with Beckham. At that I thought it was a stupid decision. But it hadn’t done any bad to our club.
What more important if he leaves is what we will use the money from it. It looks like £75m and it can be used to sign some decent replacement(s). That’s all.
June 11th, 2008 at 13:06
Penguin - I did write that Real’s team in a couple of years “may” look better suited for the future. In that “may” lies the premise of him moving, so I don’t know, if it’s a contradiction per se.
June 11th, 2008 at 13:09
I may get hounded off the site for this, but was anyone else hugely unimpressed with Sergio Ramos? He let defenders last like he wanted to, his passing was inaccurate and lazy, and where was his famed attacking prowess?
June 11th, 2008 at 13:22
great article, its nice to hear something that isn’t “that bastard sellout wanker etc” a nice realistic approach, sure if we sell him we should receive an insane amount of money, but as Mr Gill has stated on several occasions he [Ronaldo] is priceless. if he does go, i believe that it will be a case of severe decline in form, the money will take over, he’ll put on weight and will just be another burnt out has been thanks to the money making machine that is Real, yes some may say that we arn’t so different in terms of selling shirts etc, but at least we are sensible enough that it is stupid to offer the galaxy to a player just in order to get him to sign on the dotted line, a good example being Aaron Ramsey, must admit i was disappointed that he didn’t sign, and Fergie is probably also, but at the end of the day, we move on, and the most important point is the success of the team not of individuals, no matter how much they contribute, and Fergie makes sure his players know this… i seem to have gone of the point a bit here but.. i would like him to stay, but he needs to realize that the heights that Real are claiming are just impossible to achieve, especially when they have a side that is full of superstar ego’s. they could do with a couple of John O’Shea’s and a Gary Neville,
June 11th, 2008 at 13:42
I think he has been trapped in some back door drama. He has a dream to play for Real and he know that United is not going to sell him. He is happy at United with his friends Nani,Anderson,Rooney etc. But when Real came knocking at the door again and again, he dont want to displease the Madridstas by saying “NO , I STAY”…because he thinks (or might have been advised..c’on he is still a kid….. 23 i guess) that an outright no to Madrid might hinder a possible transfer to Real in future….
He have no intention of hurting United fans/manager or his friends here but he always thinks he has a dream to fulfill..The real problem is that his agent and Real are making use of the situation here…They want to unsettle the player as well as United so that they can pluck him out of OT and plant him in Bernabeu at this young age.
..and who knows Calderon may not be thinking all these…He might be doing all these to make sure that he gets voted as the RM president next term too…Football is managed in a very different way out there i feel..
June 11th, 2008 at 14:37
Interesting, Ronaldo holding united to ransom. The thought of it makes me laugh. Like him as much as you do he is going. ’bout time we turned the focus on carrick rooney and the other loayal boys. This guys if given the same amount of attention given to Ronaldo, we will not miss him. Guys let him go. Just let him go. We will still win stuffs. It does not matter who plays.
June 11th, 2008 at 15:35
we should stick with ronaldo for as long as we can then when he goes get messi young and like a 2nd ronaldo, kaka good but we already have lots of centre mids if we sell ronaldo for £70 mil this would be my team. subs: foster,garay,andy,nani,huntelaar
vds
richards fer vid evra
messi carrick hargr ribery
rooney tevez
June 11th, 2008 at 16:13
Who cares about Ronaldo any more;;If its about the money then i say we ask THE MADRISTAS about
150 mil quid coz i saw this report in the Sun i guess that The MADISTAS could make half a bilion
pounds of him; like T-shirt sales,etc…So lets ask for more why the hell should we give them bloody
freebies..
June 11th, 2008 at 16:31
Penguin your articles are always thoroughly enjoyable!
Especially since they almost always controversial and you always bring up unique points.
I totally agree with you. I for one will never hate Ronaldo, especially whilst he is still playing for us.
Interesting point about Him returning to us if things go bad… Never considered that, personaly I would welcome Him with open arms.
I think the sooner we know whether He is staying or leaving, the better. Atleast that way we could begin our rebuilding and also know to what extent it is needed.
June 11th, 2008 at 16:43
Moya - I think it’s a little over the top saying that we will have to rebuild, if Ronaldo leaves. He’s still just one player, and SAF has spent 4 years building this whole team. It’s not like there’s nothing left, if he leaves. Yes we’ll have to find a replacement for him, but that could be done by slugging out £30 mil. The foundation of a great team would certainly still be there, even if he left.
June 11th, 2008 at 16:45
mufc fan, I’m not sure with 70 million quid from Ronaldo’s sale would bring us Richards, Ribery, Messi and Huntelaar. Dream on! And Huntelaar’s on your bench. Sign a target man for 20+ million quid and put him on the bench?
The Madristas have a desperate president hell-bent to get Ronaldo. Well, we have Gill and Fergie hell-bent to keep him.
June 11th, 2008 at 16:47
With all due respect, I really don’t think Bayern Munich could compete with us or any of Europe’s elite for the time being atleast.
(Whom I think we gonna comfortably dispose of in the Super Cup!)
Last season they were playing in the UEFA Cup and there is a big gulf between that and the Champions League. Also the caught a brilliant whacking at at home against Zenit!
Bayern just aren’t what they use to be…
June 11th, 2008 at 16:49
Penguin; Interesting article and I suppose somebody had to play the Devil’s advocate. I disagree with your comment that Ronaldo may reached his peak. He is still incredibly young and I honestly don’ think he will reach his peak for 3 to 4 more years. Many thought he reached his peak last year when he scored what was then considered and incredible 24 goals. 42 is insane but he is capable of it again because of the nature in which he is used. Realistically I do not see him coming close to that total, especially if he is surrounded by quality strikers. But he has room to develop more and become a better overall player. A better passer, crosser and even better in tracking back and tackling. All these things matter.
As for other teams losing players, they are all making major noise about signing big names and some have already begun. None of them are just going to lose players. They are recycling and they are doing so by spending cash. United on the other hand has been very quiet and they have already missed out on a couple of their major targets. Of all the teams you mentioned the two that look the best for the CL are Inter and Bayern. Inter will do very well because Mourinho will deem it so. He’s just that good as a manager. It took him no time at all to mold the new Chelsea into a powerful team. As for Bayern, they look very good and it appears they have the upper hand on signing Mario Gomez too. Borowski, Gomez and possibly even Hleb only make this already powerful team that much better. And they will play a faster more free flowing game than last year because Klinsmann is now in charge. His attitude and enthusiasm is contagious and I think the team will not have lapses in focus like they had against Zenit.
June 11th, 2008 at 16:52
Tomas
Didn’t mean “rebuilding” from scratch.
My mistake with the choice of words!
But also we have to remember what a huge impact He has had in the last 2 seasons. Ronaldo is an integral part of our team, if not the main player at the moment.
It is difficult picking 1 player to compensate for Him though hey.
June 11th, 2008 at 17:34
OH YEAH RONALDO’S PLAYING LIKE SHITE TONIGHT…SEEMS LIKE Fergie’s cast a spell over that twit..
June 11th, 2008 at 17:39
Damn Huntelaar wants to move to Real! Faggot! Goal.com front page!
June 11th, 2008 at 18:21
maroon 14 spoke to soon!!! great goal but i’m not sure what to feel
June 11th, 2008 at 18:26
A real big question comes into frame now….Ramsey snubs United…Benzema wants Real madrid move…Huntellar lookin forward to Madrid moved…Gomez being tracked down by Barcelona…
Why no one wants to join Manchester United - with consecutive league titles and being the current European champions?…Any comments?
June 11th, 2008 at 18:41
Yup spoke too soon anyways nothin seems to going right for me nowadays!!!
June 11th, 2008 at 18:51
SHYAM: I dont fukin have a clue why this is happening ,few years back when Barca had Ronaldinho
and that excellent team of theirs i thought if we could maybe win in Europe then probably we would attract everyone
but Looks like the Grass is Always Greener on the OTHER SIDE….
June 11th, 2008 at 18:54
Excellent article, but I still think we should just refuse to sell him. If Madrid get him when it was obvious we didn’t want to sell then they will have proved they are a bigger club than us. As if it is just natural for all the best players in the world to play for Madrid. Two years time, when Ronaldo will have only two years left on his contract, then we sell because *we* want to.
I hate to say anything good about the Glazers but they seem to understand this. We won’t be able to attract other big players if we can’t hold onto the best ones we have. We want to be the biggest club in the world, not a highly profitable academy for others (we’re not Arsenal!)
Anyway can anyone answer me this. Why did Ronaldo sign a five year contract last year if he wants to go to Madrid so soon. Is he just stupid? Or is this all a negotiating tactic for more money that’s got out of hand?
June 11th, 2008 at 19:19
shyam, maroon and all
its quite easy to understand why there is no transfer business with respect to us. SAF will only go for top players (is there a need for squad players in the positions we are looking for???) and all of them are playing Euros. Whatever you are hearing about Benzema and Huntelaar and Ronaldo and others is pure tabloid speculation. All these guys are too focussed on the most important thing for them at the moment and that is Euro 08 (as their futures are already very well settled at their clubs… they are not in a hurry to move anywhere) Actual transfer business will start once euros are over (and that is also very conviniently when boss is also back from his vacation!)
Pls be bit more patient as no players come just by being linked to u! Nobody is moving till euros are over (not the big ones).
June 11th, 2008 at 19:25
well ronaldo had a great game and i thought that third goal was fantastic, how ronaldo simply squared it to quaresma instead of going for the glory
June 11th, 2008 at 20:06
Yup, even I thought Ronaldo had a great game, except for a few wayward passes. Just a glimpse of what we’ll be missing if he is to go to Spain.
June 11th, 2008 at 20:32
I’m worried by the lack of interest in joining Man United. Huntelaar is the only one I can think of that says he wants to join us. God only knows why we haven’t signed him yet…..
June 11th, 2008 at 20:34
@Grognard - I don’t think he’s peaked per se, all I was saying is that it is going to be really hard for him to have as good a season as he has just had. A downturn of any sort wouldn’t be good for the CR7 image, whereas at Real he would be starting afresh and there would be much less frame for comparison.
June 11th, 2008 at 20:37
please buy quaresma as a replacement for giggs. If ronaldo does leave, having nani and quaresma on the wings would be lethal.
June 11th, 2008 at 21:12
damn it, scolari manager of chelsea, and as a brasil fan, i must tell you, that is a massive, massive signing for chelsea, they can now play with their heads and great football to boot, chelsea will never be the same again, he was the one i wanted for the united job once fergie steps down, now hes at chelsea, my dream is ruined, grrrrrrrr, feckin chavs
June 11th, 2008 at 21:12
Chelsea have just appointed luis filliipe scolari as their new manager (that is quite worrying)
June 11th, 2008 at 21:22
Mr.Muzhoi:: Chill Dude The BPL is totally a different ball Game altogether;;HE is going to find
all the mind games Alex And Arsene play too much too handle…
June 11th, 2008 at 21:29
No need to worry Guys Mr.Abramovich will screw this one as well…Its Abramovich who is runnung
chelsea so Guys let’s just enjoy another season of High Drama At the Bridge…However we should be really worried
about the lack of high profile names not wanting to join United..ex,Benzema,now that Huntelaar is joining
MADRISTAS and Bosingwa signing for Chelscum plus Barca Getting Alves I really Am Beginning to worry wether
we would have a Decent player signing for us this year…
June 11th, 2008 at 21:50
Eeh?? Intersting view of why United couldn’t sign Ramsey…
And the dutch contigent at Madrid + the usual battering ram that is Marca make it that Real are now favorites to sign Huntelaar…
Damn! Are we going to sign any renowned player this summer?
June 11th, 2008 at 21:55
Scolari you’re suiciding your reputation! Oh no maybe Ronaldo will go to Chelsea =X lol.
June 11th, 2008 at 22:01
YES!!! Turkey won! Oh…can’t believe it. We actually came back in the second half. Thank you Semih, Thank you Arda, Thank you Volkan. Now we can go through by beating the Czechs, but don’t know what will happen if it’s a draw because Turkey and Czech Rep. have same goal difference…
I don’t know about all of you, but I was really rooting for Portugal and thus Ronaldo against Czech Rep. because it would leave us in a good position to leave the group with Portugal. I especially wanted a big win (which was the case: 3-1 and -2 for Czech Rep.) to tie or better the goal difference, and now it’s -1 for both…
So, can’t wait for Sunday.
June 11th, 2008 at 22:07
Grognard - you don’t know for sure, if we’ve missed out on any players (yes Ramsey, but I don’t rate him in this debate), since none of us knows for sure, who we’re after, or who we’ve had on our radar.
I’m not that worried about lack of transfers, but if 2 weeks passes after the Euros and we still haven’t signed anyone, I’ll start to get there.
Johnsom33 - I really would hate it, if we signed Quaresma. He’s the most overrated player these days imo. You would be immensely disappointed, if you saw him play in the red shirt. Yes he scored a goal today, and a forward will do that on occasion, but he surely isn’t the sollution to any sort of problem for United imo.
June 11th, 2008 at 22:09
Anyway, back to the article and the Ronaldo saga: agree with you Penguin about not hating him. It is a very very harsh and complicated situation for all of us, and some will show sorrow or nonchalance while others will resort to anger or ranting.
In terms of specifics, I am too hyped up about Turkey and Euro to think about it all right now.
June 11th, 2008 at 22:26
ronny and the whole portugal team were diving way too much for me today and when ronny was lying on the ground raising his hands to the ref in the cl final with evryone else was attacking the goal i was screaming at him like he was a little kid. if he were in that attacking run we might have gotten something out of it and not needed pens where he fd up.
i love the way he plays i just wish he would leave the diving routine behind. and if you do dive and dont get a call get the f up and play ball dont cry while the match is still on and your team need you.
cr is the best and we will miss him. im not pissed at the rumor mill and his responses i think he intends to stay but wants to express his desire to “one day play for rm” and he wants to leave that door open. but if we could get the right players for the $ he will bring. lets do it. if we cant get our targets then keep him.
btw what the f is soo cool about rm I can see barca they are on the beach but seriously.
June 11th, 2008 at 22:30
If Real are so desperate to get their hands on Ronaldo, why don’t we completely rip them off? Maybe a swap deal where Ramos comes to OT along with 75M if possible? Then we can go out and fill the hole with some other young winger. I’m sure CQ would have no problem finding one in either Portugal or Brazil.
The problem, however that has not been considered is the effect a Ronaldo exit would have on Nani and Anderson. Any thoughts?
June 11th, 2008 at 22:37
BCsteve i think that Nani will kick and scream until we sell him which we will (for a tidy profit) however Anderson i firmly believe will stay at OT for a large chunk of his career. Nani seems to be a lot more cocky and vocal than anderson.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:03
Post#10 by Seasider is right:
Like every other player who wants to negotiate a pay rise, CR is ‘flirting’ with another team to achieve this. It happens all the time, in fact it happens in a number of sports. There has been, and will continue to be, a number of fabricated quotes and ‘insider’ information - but the only time I’ve seen Ronaldo, in the flesh, make a comment about his future was after the Champions League final when he said “I stay”. This shit was worse post-World Cup, when he actually said he was leaving, but Sir Alex negotiated his way out of that and we loved Ronaldo come the start of the season. I’m predicting the end result will be a mammoth pay rise for Ronaldo, and we’ll secure his services for another year or two and happily say goodbye. He’s a good lad, probably a touch ego-maniacal, but from his demeanour when I actually see him speak he’s okay. And you know what, give him the flipping pay rise too! He’s totally justified in asking for at least parity with John Terry!
June 11th, 2008 at 23:15
why does every other player wants to play for Real fucking madrid i am so pissed
God we have histories and records like no other club
I think we need to get a PR team up and running and improve our image in europe so these new kids just dont keep snubbing us.
Get cantona as the spoke person the way he speaks about the club even today make me crazy
Just buy some1 fergie i’m getting restless
On the side note
Scolari and chelsea’s attacking football dreams can this be match made in heaven??
I’ll let some experienced members here answer that question
June 11th, 2008 at 23:15
Guys, I think there is some validity that some of these high profile names don’t want to play for United but I would take most of it with a grain of salt. Remember, one should not trust the tabloid and so when Tribal Football, Goal, Red Cafe, Marca and others report news, it’s just a pack of lies. I think many players would be honored to play for United. Maybe not for more than 2 or 3 years but still, they would play for us. The other possibility is that many know Fergie is going in 2 to 3 years and they don’t fancy the changeover that may come when that happens. That’s still a very minor excuse. As for Latino players, nobody should be shocked if they don’t want to play for us. For many it’s all about language vulture and the weather. Manchester just doesn’t turn their crank. I for one am going to stop buying into the rubbish that;s being printed, even by the more reputable sites. It’s frustrating and most of it is just BS. However, Fergie should be forewarned. I will be mighty pissed off if we lose everybody that was high on our want list because he was busy on vacation. If we settle Fabiano and a few fruit salads I will go ballistic on this site. We can not afford to lose ground. Yes our priority is to get Ronaldo secured, but we cannot forget about our other needs. What the hell is David Gill doing right now and why aren’t we being more aggressive? Losing Ramsey for me was a mighty blow to our future and to the morale of the team and fans. When we can’t sign a Welsh kid that idolized Giggs and we lose him to the Arse, somebody or some people at OT aren’t doing their job. I’m worried that they are asleep at the job while the Real’s are aggressively pursuing players as are Barca and the Italian clubs and Chelsea. They need to get their collective heads out of their asses and their asses then need to be kicked into gear. Waiting for the end of the Euros could be catastrophic.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:20
Feck me, suddenly this board has turned into a community of archangel Gabriels!. I can agree with some of what Penguin has said, but I am in no mood for a Ronaldo ‘Love in’. Ronaldo by his complete silence, apart from dubious fork tongued messages here and there, has put United fans thru the emotional wringer for a month now. And we still don’t know what the feck’s going on. For all you supportive Ronaldo fans, I have respected your opinions for ages now, and still do. But as I see him play for Portugal, laughing and joking, I find myself wanting Portugal’s downfall, and Ronaldo to fall flat on his face too. Does that make me bad?, well tough totty. If I never see his face again, it will not be too soon for me. You all love and respect him, ok!. Tell me then, what love and respect has he shown for fans, all the United faithful, who unlike Penguin says in his article, have hero worshipped him above every other player. Penguin CR has had total hero worship far above all the other players, in the last half of our season, all you could hear at home and away was Ronaldo songs reverberating around every ground. Most often only his name chanted, so to say he wont be hero worshipped because worship is shared around - in my opinion is Bollocks!.
Duffstuff, Nani vocal and cocky, kicking and screaming, not trying to offend you mate, but I don’t think your a good judge of character.
RR - NOW THIS IS OF COURSE SOUR GRAPES!. Ronaldo has let us all down in the area of not telling us himself what his intentions are in this whole saga. That is a grievance for which I will not be able to accept or cheer for him again. Sorry Will, Tom, Red addict, and all of you who have supported Ronnie, I am not trying to offend you, just being honest guys!.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:21
no wonder scolari has been telling ronaldo to go to real, makes his new job easier! git…..
June 11th, 2008 at 23:25
Scolari will quit within two months after he gets sick of Roman’s meddling and when Roman’s special adviser starts showing up at training sessions and starts adding his 2 cents to the selection of players and tactics. Abramovich is a sociopath. He’s nuts and his money has desensitized him to common decency and respect for people. Scolari is 58 and has won it all. He’s not going to take that kind of abuse. After that though I would never consider him for the United job. His English for me is not good and he needs to have more of a connection to the club because of our history and traditions. I also think he is too old. The one who takes over should be considered to be good enough for a long tenure. A long tenure for Scolari would mean going into his 70’s. Not going to happen. If Ronaldo leaves I say we scrap the Latino project and we bring in Keane, Bruce or Hughes. Hell Klinsmann proved no experience is not necessary if you are a genius with great playing experience and creativity. Therefore why not? Bring in King Cantona. I’d love it. Although it would probably be a disaster. Actually my first choice provided that he can prove to the owners and Gill that he is innovative and creative towards the continental game would be Martin O’Neill. I’m souring on Queiroz because I want United to go a different direction when it comes to signing foreign players. I don’t trust Portuguese, Spanish or South American players because I am convinced all of them have ambitions to play in Spain or Italy. I want this team to be a final destination for big signings, not a truck stop and an overnight stay.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:26
I totally agree with you Craig. Ronaldo is dead to me.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:35
An idea put forth by the Manchester Evening News suggests the following;
“But the signing that would most certainly compensate for any potential loss of Ronaldo would be Barcelona’s Lionel Messi. The Argentinian will be 21 in a fortnight, and wowed Old Trafford and United with his individual displays for Barca in the Champions League semi- final ties against the Reds.Getting Barcelona to agreeing to a Nou Camp departure would be tough but a £50m bite out of any fee received for Ronaldo might force the Catalan club’s hand.”
wishful thinking but I for one would take Messi over Ronaldo any day of the week. Even with his injury history. The lad gets just amazes me when he plays. Barca probably will never sell him but who know! Money talks. The Glazer’s have said that 75 mil from a Ronaldo sale would go directly to improving the team and not paying off the debt. I like the sound of it. It also proves that they know what they are doing in managing that debt. God I would die for Messi. Messi also has a real radar understanding with Tevez. Add to that the impossible and completely improbable of signing my god of gods the only living and walking god Riquelme, and I would be in paradise. Hey I can dream can’t I ?
June 11th, 2008 at 23:42
I found this on VitalFootball.com but it seems like a very valid and totally understandable reason why we lost out on Ramsey. If it was you, who would you have signed for. A totally half hearted and half assed attempt by United which tells me there is something wrong at OT and a reason why we aren’t attracting players right now.
“Cardiff City starlet Aaron Ramsey made a surprise decision when opting to join Arsenal instead of childhood heroes Manchester United this week.
Key to the decision were the relative welcomes he was given after being courted by three top Premiership teams and having been watched by numerous others. David Moyes met Ramsey and impressed the teenager, but it was Arsene Wenger who flew Ramsey and family out to Zurich for a personal lunch meeting with the Gunners boss.
Thats in stark contrast to the Manchester United experience, where their expectation to sign Ramsey fell short of the mark following a telephone conversation with Alex Ferguson, and a stadium tour by none other than Gary Neville!
Man Utd were the clear favorites to land Rambo, but something didn’t quite add up right to the youngster and Arsenal seemed the safer bet - I’m not sure I blame him!!!”
June 11th, 2008 at 23:45
No one in the world can replace Ronaldo I dont care what anyone says he is the best and most dangerous player in the world. That said no individual is bigger than our club and we will carry on competing for trophys whether we have Ronaldo or not but he will leave a huge void.
My concern with Scolari taking over at Chelsea is if it doesnt work out for Ronaldo at Real Madrid there is only one place he will end up - in the arms of his big uncle scolari and in the vile blue of Chelsea.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:48
Grog, did you just say you agreed with me lol, well now that must be a first!. Thanks mate!.
June 11th, 2008 at 23:58
[craig]
I agree with you regarding Ronaldo — that’s what I’ve said through and through in my article/rant last week. I think your feelings are justified and are infact NOT sour grapes
For me, even if he decides to stay at United this coming season, he will not earn my respect for the way he’s fucked around with our club like it’s his toy.
June 12th, 2008 at 0:15
grognard, for someone who isn’t a fan of Latino players. I an completely shocked you consider riquelme a god. To me he is one of the most overrated players of this era. There is a reason why no one tried to lure him away from villarreal and now Argentina.
Tomas, are you implying that I want quaresma just cause he scored today? Cause I have been saying we should sign him for awhile now. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I dont understand why people say he is overrated, just cause he had 1 bad season at barca.
June 12th, 2008 at 0:15
Ryan, no one in the world can replace Ronaldo?. “You never heard the saying then “The King is dead, long live the King.”
RR - That’s good to know, you haven’t moved from your judgement of last week!.
June 12th, 2008 at 0:23
Anyone else think the Portugal defence is shite?. The Chec’s should have had a bagful of goals today. That defence will get hammered when they come up against Germany, Holland, Spain (if they continue the same form), etc. Good attacking teams will be all over the Portugeezers, and Ronnie won’t get the space to save them against teams with excellent defenders.
June 12th, 2008 at 0:40
fuck him, his greed could keep him at United for another season. He’s waiting to sign a cr7 deal with Nike thats worth a bomb to him, this will be scuppered if he joins an Adidas club like the Real Fascists. Anyone know more about this?
June 12th, 2008 at 0:45
[johnsom33]
You rate Quaresma and don’t rate Riquelme?
Clubs didn’t want him for one reason, and that reason was not his playing ability — but his attitude. As a player he was and still is classy. I think Grognard would give you a much detailed response, but if you can take the pain of trawling through the archives from about 8 months back you’ll see clearly what he thinks about Riquelme and why.
As a player he is bloody good, not so much in terms of attitude.
June 12th, 2008 at 0:57
Ryan: That won’t happen ‘cos Scolari won’t be around at the Bridge by then. And I doubt he’ll stoop so low as to wear, as you nicely put it, the ‘vile blue’ of Chelshitscum. The point made by Penguin was very interesting; if it all went tits up at Madrid, there is a good chance of him coming back, as I’m sure he does have some affection for United. But to counter-argument, his pride (and perhaps a slight hint of arrogance) may not allow him to come back with his tail between his legs and admit he was that he was wrong to leave in the first place.
Grognard: Like you, I also fantasise about Messi in the famous red, but for the time being us daydreamers will have to make do with buying him on FIFA (or Pro Evo, FM08 or whatever…), as the difference between Messi and Ronaldo is that the former actually has a sense of loyalty to the club that made him into the player he is, while the latter….(you get my drift……)
June 12th, 2008 at 1:10
Quaresma is nowhere near the complete player like C. Ronaldo is!! Where is all this bollocks coming from????!!
Riquelme is a throwback to another era, an extremely classy, elegant, foot-on-the-ball classic playmaker. One hell of a player; they just don’t make them like him anymore! But like RR says, his attitude sucks. He is the ultimate, archtypical Latino footballer in my opinion; never in a gazillion years would he have played in, or even fitted in, the Premier League.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:30
Craig: I myself don’t see Portugal progressing beyond the semis. Not only is their defence shite (though they have good individual players like R. Carvalho, Pepe and Bosingwa), but their attack is shite too. While the other top European nations can boast world-class strikers of the likes of Torres, Villa, Henry, Benzema, Klose, Toni, Zlatan, RVN et al (hell, even England have Owen and Rooney!), Nuno Gomes is their best striker for fooks sake! Their over-reliance on goals from midfield will prove their undoing IMO (almost the opposite problem to what United had this season lol). But to be fair to them, what they lack in quality forward players, they kind of make up for with some truly sensational wingers; over the years they’ve produced Figo, Simao, Conceicao, Quaresma, Nani and a certain other player….
For the record, I’m backing a Germany-Spain final , with my namesake El Nino firing La Furia Roja to glory!
June 12th, 2008 at 1:47
Nino, do you really think Simao is a great winger?. Honestly mate, I think he’s average at best, from what I have seen of him in these games. His free kicks, well, Ronaldo must be scratching his head wondering why he isn’t taking them all. I’m not impressed with Samao, and wonder why he is picked before others. I have noticed with the Portugal team though, that Ronnie isn’t considered numero Uno. Deco, Simao etc alternate with the free kicks, and nobody seems to be in awe of Ronnie or giving him his own way. I think it will be the same at Madrid, nobody is going to sacrifice their reputation and set it aside so Ronnie can be the big chief, as players at Old Trafford have stood in awe of him. Nino I want Holland in the final mate, with whoever I don’t mind. VDS deserves to finish his international career with a winners medal.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:12
Well said Craid Mc on VDS!
Ronaldo ronaldo hey…. Football
June 12th, 2008 at 4:26
Just go to youtube and search for WC2006 Argentina v IVory Coast match and see the second goal. The assist that Riquelme gave was out of the world. I always thought that fellow was a genius. At one point, after his succeess at Villareal, i thought United would buy him. I think passing wise, he is the best that is in his position. Add to that his free kicks and the goals he comes up with.. Phenomenol…
June 12th, 2008 at 5:33
I have always found it hard for Ronaldo to be my favourite player so I suppose that’s why I jumped on the sell him bandwagon almost immediately-even when people on here still wanted to give him a chance, I mean I know that he is a great player but his constant losing of the ball and seemingly refusal to pass in and around the box meant that in his five years here he has been the most frustrating player for me.
However that said he would always produce some piece of magic to make me eat my words and since I haven’t actually heard him say that he wants to join Madrid means that I am willing to cut him a little slack. However unless in the next 2 or 3 weeks he quashes the rumours then I will be back on his back.
I think somebody touched on this earlier but having Scolari joining Chelsea may be a bad sign as he may have a part to play in convincing Ronnie to move to Spain
June 12th, 2008 at 5:39
johnsom33; You are so wrong mate I can’t even begin to say how wrong you are. I love and have loved many great Latino players barring Spaniards. Spain is not one of my favorite nations or footballing cultures. I also think aside of Villa and Torres many of their great players from the past were very overrated. That’s just my opinion. But I was a great fan of Brazilian players especially Pele, Socrates, Falcao, Zico and Rivelino. I loved many Argentinian greats like Ardiles, Messi, Houseman, Crespo the great Maradona and especially Riquelme. I also liked watching Eusebio and Figo play and I think Eusebio was fantastic player and a true sportsman in the classic sense. So you are being very unfair. It’s true I hate Italian football with a passion and I blame them for everything that is corrupt, boring unethical and disgusting in the modern game. With that said I actually liked the 1990 Italian side and I do like Luca Toni. I was also a big fan of the late 80’s and early 90’s Inter side but that’s because they had the German trio of Matthaus, Klinsmann and Brehme.
What I don’t like about most Latino players is their attitudes, cultural bias and gamesmanship. I also don’t like their narrow mindedness
towards the game and teams outside of South America, Spain, Italy and Portugal. The few that venture out and start their careers outside of those pressure cooker environments end up pretty good. Ronaldo, and Ronaldinho are just a few names. I just don’t trust their motivations and intent when they come to play in England and especially for United. Ronaldo has had a lot to do with really poisoning my mind of late with this kind of paranoid thinking. Fortunately Tevez and Anderson seem like a breath of fresh air with their apparent desire to play at OT. Nani I have to be honest I am not sure of. He is just very hard to read and is not quoted very often.
And for you to say that Riquelme is one of the most overrated players of this era just absolutely astounds me. Normally I’d get bent out of shape and rant like scalded lion but I am trying to behave myself. You are intitled to your opinion…….I guess. :-C
June 12th, 2008 at 5:53
Nino; I absolutely love Riquelme and cherish the ground he walks on but I have to agree with you. His style is not suited to the fast pace of the English game. He isn’t slow but he lacks foot speed that is necessary to avoid the traps that come with the fast paced English game.Actually he is most suited for the Italian League and had his attitude been different (although I still think he is just misunderstood because he beats to his own drummer) I think Juve or the two Milans would have snapped him up. He is certainly not overrated like Johnsom33 said but he never even reached 75% of his full potential by playing at Boca and Villarreal. It’s too bad the politics at Barca didn’t work out because he and Messi have a sixth sense between each other. I’m glad you agree and see his brilliance. It’s amazing for all the ant-Latino bashing I get that supposed Latino lovers cannot see, respect or appreciate a footballing God in their presence. If he was German I would have a religious icon of him above my bed and pray to him every night. Instead I have to settle for the 3 Wise Men Gerd Mueller, Franz Beckenbauer and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge. Ah Heck! They were pretty godly too.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:10
Craig; Mate, go back weeks and weeks and you will see that I agree with you more than you think. I might get pissed off with you some times because I feel you are bit unfair with me but I don’t hold a grudge and I do respect your opinions. And here’s one more for you. I also agree with you and think Portugal is shite and Simao is a joke. No way that guy should be playing ahead of Quaresma or Nani for that matter. He was good four years ago but he is shite now. And I also think Scolari is an idiot for not letting Voldemort take the free kicks. Voldy may not always score, but he generally gets it over the wall and on goal. Simao hasn’t made a free kick clear the wall yet. Another manager that has the “experience over talent bug up his ass”. Experience is overrated in my opinion. It’s important but pace, talent and desire is the key. The Czechs and Italians had tons of experience and to quote Tony Montana “looook at dem now! Big fucking shots”. They were defeated by fresher and younger legs and more desire.
Utsav; Well said about Riquelme mate. For me he is the best pure passer of the ball in the last 30 years. A big statement but I believe it to be true. And I have watched a lot of footy in the last 35 years to say I cannot think of one man, not even Maradon, Hoddle, Beckenbauer, Netzer, Socrates, Gerson, Matthaus, Figo, Beckham, Cantona, Scholes, Ballack, Gerrard, Cruyff, Gazza, Neeskens, etc. I have a library of thousands of games on video and dvd and those are the names that pop to mind first. All incredible players and play makers but none of them for me beat him. Maradona, Cruyff and Netzer come the closest. And I must say I was a big Hoddle fan but even his brilliant passes and imagination pale in comparison. If people could download every game from last years Copa except unfortunately the final you will see a footballing clinic by Riquelme that is a treat for the heart and for the eyes.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:22
I for one will never put down Ronaldo as a player or do I care about his attitude on the pitch. I think he is a genius and world class talent. But he’s dead to me.
I needed to get Ronaldo out of my mind so I stuck the 1968 final into my dvd player so I could watch the greatest pure talent to ever come out of Europe. The great Georgie Best. For me only Pele and Maradona are better and Riqulme, Cruyff Beckenbauer are very close to him. Bestie was incredible to watch without all the party tricks that Ronaldo throws at us. Not Ronaldo not anyone had the pace and the control of the ball that he had and only Cruyff and Gerd Mueller could compare in their lightning turns with the ball. His moves with pace were exquisite and his finesse and first touch absolutely sublime no doubt he put the fear of God into the hearts of Benfica players. They hacked him down viciously so many times I wonder how he was able to walk the next day. He scored a goal that was disallowed that was truly exquisite with a chip that would make Karel Poborsky blush. And heis winning goal in ET…..WOW! Players like that help you forget Ronaldo very quickly. Now I am awaiting for my newest dvd to ship from Amazon.uk. CANTONA. Now that will be a treat.
Also, if any of you own any of the George Best DVD’s that are currently for sale at Amazon, I was wondering, which is the best one to buy that really shows his ability and exploits on the pitch? I’m not interested in his tragic story because it truly breaks my heart. I’d appreciate a lead in the right direction if possible. Thanks in advance.