Nov 09
Reaction to the Chelsea defeat
United will go into the international break ruing, what could have been, a draw (even, to the optimists, a win). Prior to the game, whilst I predicted a 1-1 draw, a nagging feeling told me a defeat to Chelsea was a perfectly possible — and in a parallel universe, even deserving, given our recent form — and I had my mind made up preparing for the worst.
What transpired actually surprised me.
I’d mentioned in passing in the comments, in the week leading up to the match, that our approach should be a safety first 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation to deal with Chelsea’s formidable midfield. I also hoped we would first be a bit cagey to start off the match, and then, based on how well we settled, attack when presented with the chance. A draw, in my mind, was something I would have gleefully taken given the way our players were outplayed by a Liverpool side that was supposedly down in the dumps. [My thinking was, if our players couldn't rouse themselves for arguably our biggest fixture of any season -- Liverpool -- they would struggle to be charged up similarly for Chelsea] Add to this, the absence of our best central midfield pair for four years and one would see why United fans, by and large, feared the worst.
So I hoped the idea I had in mind — of best tackling Chelsea — played out. But it was more hope than conviction.
Ferguson, to his credit, got his tactics right to the T — as I hoped. The lads, to their credit, got going the way I’d played in my mind — in Hopeland; initially cagey, looking for chances as they came and held their lines well. And the lads, once again to their credit, were charged up for the occasion beyond any match I’ve seen this season.
And this played out like a dream… till the 76th minute.
The referee infractions right through the match annoyed me. But I was willing to forgive all that. After all, we were 0-0 and created the better chances in the second half. Fletcher fought like a lion, like he always does. Anderson, who I thought was not the best in the first half, came into his own towards the latter stages of the first and the rest of the match thereon; giving us more attacking thrust in midfield, while doing a good job — alongside Fletcher — in nullifying Deco and Essien. Also, was Ballack playing? And, I happened to notice Lampard when he was celebrating alongside Terry.
Same with our defence. Brown, after a questionable performance against CSKA, was up for this one. He was peerless, until a whining, cheating, moaning (yet built like a brick shithouse) player pulled him down from a suspiciously offside position. And, by the way, in case you didn’t know, Jonny Evans is only 21 years of age. There are reports that he has a troublesome ankle and will eventually require surgery but is currently playing through all that. Defenders typically peak in the latter half of their 20s, and if he stays healthy we have a gem in this boy. It’s a blessing in disguise that Rio is out indefinitely — as much as we’d like a fully fit Rio. Yesterday, he struck a stud into the heart of said brick shithouse, and while my first reaction on seeing the replay was “Ouch!”, my opinion since then has been revised, all things considered. I don’t have to speak my mind on this — it’s better left unsaid.
Anyway, the 76th minute…
Regulars would know I typically don’t lay blame on the referees after every defeat. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. But yesterday was some rubbish officiating, to put it mildly. This match had inconsistencies peppered all over it, to either side — although the crucial ones went Chelsea’s way. These things always happen when you are the home team and a “big four” side, but Fletcher’s tackle was as clean as they get. And, as Ferguson later said, the positioning of the referee for the resulting free kick was horrendous. There were marginal calls for the Valencia penalty, and a much more serious error on Rooney’s offside call. On reflection, Evans was also a bit lucky to get away. The timekeeping, considering Alex’s substitution took about a minute was also dodgy. So there…
We can take heart from a wonderfully rousing performance, and one hopes this gets the side focused for the rest of the year. Our schedule seems gentle for the rest of the year right till the end of January where we face Arsenal at the Emirates. One hopes we can go on a run and expect Chelsea and Arsenal to drop points to stay within range.
Of course, the win doesn’t disguise the fact that we lack creativity going forward and we will struggle against the bigger sides. But with a dominant midfield, against inferior defences, we could do a much better job. If we saw even a bit of the fire we did see against Chelsea, I think we’ll be well positioned to put pressure on the league leaders.
Further reading:
An Arsenal perspective on our loss.
Republik of Mancunia
United Rant
A kick in the grass.
Bonus material, just to keep the mind off this:
The Lyon-Marseille match in the weekend was a 5-5 thriller! Yes, you read it right: 5-5! Here’s the extended highlights of the game. Good fun.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Veloso Rumours Won’t Go | Nani, Ronaldo Shine| Gerrard Continues To Be Media Darling
- United Sleepwalk to Defeat
- United Draw Chelsea In Champions League Quarterfinals
- Did Fergie Bottle It?
- Tuesday’s News Round-Up: Wayne Wants A Long Stay But Will Dimitar Be Out The Door
Tags: Match Reports
Opti (541)
Stephen (483)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
We should not let go of Berba. We need to give him a real opportunity to further showcase his talents.
I think Nani+20 million for Ribery would be a better deal for both clubs. Bayern have Muller and Toni (?) and we would swap Nani… of course that is just me dreaming…
Possibility: Unlikely
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@Red Ranter: How bloody difficult is it to accept to put on a blody poppy mate? Nobody is forcing them but then again, why should they be forced when doing the right thing would have made them wear it out of respect and duty, not because the Daily Mail or Grognard bullied them into it. How much of sacrifice and beast of burden can a little poppy be to the team? Nothing they can do or say can ever hide the shame i feel as a United fan for their decision to ignore this. Commemorate their own way? Rubbish. You do so in the tried and true manner that is tradition. It’s the wearing of the symbolic poppy. To Hell with freedoms and all that nonsense. We are not asking that they be taxed or to sacrifice their first born or anything that is absurd. I am simply saying that ignoring and deciding to not wear a poppy as a symbolic gesture to commemorate the dead and those who served and sacrificed so much, is a blatant show of disrespect and insensitivity and nothing you or anyone else can say, will change my mind on it. My God, how awful it must be to wear a heavy hindering and painfully nagging poppy. It’s shameful. Call me a cynic all you want, I am 100% right on this. It’s not self righteous indignation when I am showing shame and disappointment in my team for not doing the right thing and doing their duty. It’s shame and disappointment.
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@B: The only crap I see is the shite you are spewing out of your bloody Gooner trap. Be off with you.
If you are not United, then sod off to some Gooner board. That kind of shite just pisses me off big time. Fletcher has a point because refs do listen to influential men like Wenger.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: You can trust them mate because they are very strong and very loud in Germany and especially in Munich. He has been playing poorly like he doesn’t care and this is affecting the morale of the squad big time. He may be gone in January but don’t fret about it, he’s not coming to us or Chelsea. Madrid or Barca will end up with him, believe me.
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@Grognard: I dealt with him, so no need for the aggro. He was sharing his opinion and I made him understand. Opposition fans are allowed on this board as long as there is no name calling.
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@Red Ranter: Let them go to their bloody Gooner sites. Does the Grognard waste his time and that of Gooner fans by going over to there sites to spout his pro United rhetoric? No, then we don’t need their kind around here.
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@Grognard: Opposition fans are allowed here as long as they don’t get personal. Read my comment policy.
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@Redrich: You know I have come to the conclusion about Carrick, he’s just not good enough mate. He’s a very decent player but he is not good enough to maintain and perform well enough in the role he has been given by the Boss. He’s too slow, he thinks slow and in a very plodding manner and his confidence gets shaken very easily. I think he has been given more than enough time to show his quality and being honest, I think he has failed. Not miserably, but just failed to live up to what was expected of him. Frankly, I felt going after him in the first place was a mistake because even at Spurs I did not think he was what we should be looking for. He was a poor purchase by the Boss considering the money spent. In fact, Spurs have fleeced us good over the past few seasons. I like Carrick but I just think we need somebody who has more presence in the midfield and a lot more ambition and energy.
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@Redrich: Having read that about Lahm, I really would like Fergie to see if he was available. Man if we got Lahm at RB, that would be awesome. But I wouldn’t read too much into it. German players historically have been outspoken and have big mouths. Nothing ever comes of it.
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@Grognard: If he goes to Madrid or Barca, I will be surprised, as they do not need a winger (of course, need has not been their way of thinking).
I have a gut-feeling that Chelsea will get Aguero and not go for Ribery and with Madrid and Barca not “needing” him, I do not think they will pay 35+ million. That leaves the dream alive… I bet $1 that Ribery will go to United (yes, I am crazy
) and Nani/Carrick+20 million will head to Germany.
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@Redrich: That would be a good fit for both clubs. But it will never happen.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Close to the King? Nobody is close to the King, least of all Berba. I like him too and I think he is a classy player with a languid lazy attitude. Only George Best comes close to being that kind of royalty. Berbatov is not royalty. He is not…….. CANTONA
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: You are missing a very key point here mate. Ribery is not interested in coming to Man Utd. He only wants to play in Spain and for Madrid or Barca.
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@Red Ranter: I know your comment policy mate, but I just hate it when they troll in here to just get us all riled up. You should be supporting your base here, not a lone troll looking to cause trouble. Get your loyalties right mate.
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@Grognard: Let’s come back to this subject after this season. In fact, these players will be judged at the end of the season:
Berbatov – has to keep up his good play of late and improve after Christmas
Nani – I am sot sure he will survive the cut next summer unless he improves his decision making asap
Carrick – he needs to find his heart and improve his play or he will be out too
Park Ji-Sung – South Korean shirt sales aside, if he does not play well after his injury he will be out too
Neville – will he finally retire?
Scholes – will he retire?
Giggs – if he thinks he can continue he will stay next season
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@Grognard: You do so in the tried and true manner that is tradition. It’s the wearing of the symbolic poppy.
What tradition? This thing started in 2002! That’s tradition for you?!
Look I am not defending the fact they didn’t wear it. But I am defending their right to not wear it if they choose not to even if it means they come out smelling bad. And the media like Daily Mail (who, by the way are the only ones bleating about this with their right wing nonsense) have no right to tell United on how to honour something.
Free expression infractions start with little things like this, and I can’t accept that. And I think I am 100% right on it. So this debate is deadlocked, with none of us going to agree with one another, so let’s move on.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Henry is on his last legs at Barca and so they need him their badly. Also, he doesn’t care if he is needed at Madrid and neither do they. They want each other because Ribery has his head so high up Zinedine Zidane’s ass, his nose is touching the Zizu’s molars. Also key to all this, they have the money to buy him. We don’t and he has no interest in Chelsea or Man City.
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@Grognard: It’s not a question of loyalty here when he didn’t call anyone names. He called a player names — in fact he called Old Trafford and Ferguson hypocrites. (What’s wrong with that?) So I don’t want to escalate things here. And I actually dealt with it, and he accepted his fault in a reply. So my point was why rake this up again? That’s all.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Fair enough.
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@Red Ranter: Wearing the poppy started in 2002? Are you nuts? I have worn a poppy since I could walk. We all wear them here in Canada every year around this time since before the second world war. What are you saying man?
Further more, it’s not about their right to wear or not wear it. I understand that. My question is WHY wouldn’t they want to wear it? Is it some Free Masonic ritual of the Glazer’s to not show respect to the fallen or what? Freedom is one thing mate, callousness is another. Like I said before, to wear one is not exactly a beast of burden or something that would have cost them money or effort.
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@Red Ranter: I don’t like an outsider, especially a Gooner’s fan coming on here and calling the Boss or Fletch a hypocrite. Frankly, it’s OK if we do because we are in a sense family, but he is not and so I took great exception to his remarks.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Nani in Germany…?? Now that’s just cruel!!
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@Grognard: I am not nuts. I know fully well that the poppy tradition is quite old, and it means a lot in Canada, as well as the UK and the British Isles in general. But the tradition of clubs adopting it was done only since 2002.
I also said, I wished our club wore it, but my article from the beginning was the disgusting hounding from the Daily Mail which wasn’t cool at all.
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@Grognard: I thought for sure I had read that Ribery was a fan of United, Madrid, Barca, and Milan. With our little French connection (Evra+Obertan+Blanc) and Madrid not willing to spend 35 million for a winger* there is a chance that we can lure Ribery to OT.
*The only deal that can get Ribery to RM is Van Der Vaart + 25 million for Ribery — yes, that is more likely than Ribery to United, but I am not giving up now that the chance is there to get him. Fergie works in mysterious ways
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@Redrich: Nani does not know that Munich is not in Germany.
There are portuguese in Germany doing quite well – Almeida and Costa are examples
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@Grognard: I’m sorry you don’t like an outsider, but I think it’s one of those uncomfortable things you may have to put up with. Look, it’s ok when I haven’t dealt with him and you have a go at him. But I don’t want you to just have a go for no reason other than the fact that it’s an opposition fan.
I like the regulars here, but I don’t want this place to be insular and hostile to outsiders. Doesn’t matter if it’s an opposition fan. There are a lot of fans who want to have good debate with opposition fans. And we just had one from Andy from Arsenal FC Blog today. I understand they will face backlash for being opposition fans, but having a go for the heck of it, isn’t something I appreciate.
Trust me, I typically screen 90% of opposition fans. I let this one through because I think he brought up something worth for me to counter.
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@Red Ranter: I am with RR here. There are a million charities and events worth paying notice off and worth so much more than a poppy on the shirt. I think eddy’s comment about Fergie involvement with the cancer (not mentioned by Mail) is very worthy and makes me proud of United.
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@Grognard: I understand that. At least you agree with me that IF he came to england he would come to Utd and that is where I find solace.
BTW, where does Madrid get their millions? They spent 200 million this summer, how can they afford (business-wise) another 30-50 million?
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@Grognard: I have so little interest in this argument, but I have to agree. The poppy has been a symbol of Remembrance Day since I was a boy.
And moreover, this is all suppose to honor the dead of WW1 and so how has this got anything to do with anything. Fascism, freedom of speech, are you kidding me.
If The Daily Mail wants to take a biased political stance, then at least we know what it is they believe. If you don’t like their agenda, stay away from their agenda.
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@Red Ranter: How much time do you spend on this blog reviewing comments and posting threads? Is it profitable ??? (I am sensing a big NO on profit)
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@Redrich: I’ve made my peace with this argument. It’s a dead end as far as I’m concerned.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I spend considerable time reading news and reading links people post on twitter. I also do get involved with other football fans on twitter, and I find it a brilliant tool when used right.
Regarding the blog comments, on good days when no one get’s into a fight, I just read comments and respond to some of them. On days fights break out, all bets are off. From my experience, invariably it happens on weekends. And since I am a bit obsessed with getting things right, I obsess too much for my own good, it makes for a frustrating period. Sometimes I wonder if I should let people deal with troubles on their own, but I have seen the direction such unmoderated communities take.
Regarding profits, I won’t go into numbers, but any money gets reinvested back into the site. Or is put in reserve for any need — for the site. In short I don’t make money off this despite the advertising. And it’s not in my near term plan either. Unless someone big comes and decides to pay me for this.
Oh, and I have my day job.
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I found this on IMUSA.org:
“Update: Noah Pransky, reporter for CBS affiliate WTSP-TV tweets: “WDAE’s Dan Sileo says Glazers haven’t put Bucs on market yet, but Wall St. insider says family lost $400M+ indirectly to Madoff.”
Earlier: The Glazer family is trying to sell the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, their NFL franchise. Tampa sports talk radio station WDAE broke the news.
Forbes valued the Buccaneers franchise at $1.085 billion in 2009.
The source of the Glazer family’s trouble may be the UK soccer team it also owns, Manchester United.
That was a highly-leveraged buyout, and Man-U[td] is now thought to be in as much as $1.8 billion debt.
That debt may be one reason the Buccaneers’ payroll is an astounding $30 million under the NFL’s salary cap. It’s almost unheard of for NFL owners not to spend as much on salary as they can.”
- If true, this is VERY scary and 80 million from Ronaldo does nothing to heal a $1.8 billion hole
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: The Glazers did debunk the above statement from Clear Channel but he would not confirm it if it was true either.
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@Red Ranter: As long as you have “real” job that answers my question… I was just wondering if you were living large off this site…
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: If I was full time, I wouldn’t be updating this sporadically.
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http://www.rbj.net/article.asp?aID=181817
“In late June, Harbinger took a 51.3 percent ownership stake in Zapata, buying nearly 9.9 million shares from Glazer family members,…Harrbinger paid $7.50 a share.”
That is 7.5 * 9.9*10^6 = $75 million this past June after selling Ronaldo.
It seems like Glazers indeed are in trouble financially… which means Utd is in trouble…
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I think we always knew what we have got us into. I for one feel that all of us had some idea about what these debts means. I mean now I hear that debts are as high as GBP 700mn while if my memory serves me right then it were in the range of GBP 550-600 mn when this LBO happened. So, after the most successful three years period in recent history we have actually not managed pay of a single penny of it. Infact it has incremented further. Add a one or two relatively bad season and we will be in big mess.
I think we always say and feel and quite rightly so that how big and better we are compared to Dippers. Now, I have to say very sadly that even in the debt mess we are far bigger than them. And if I want to point out one then the frightening thing is a small club with costing of GBP500mn can be bought but a big club with costing of more than a bn can’t be bought that easily.
And as far as fears are concerned they were always there looming on our head but we were trying to bury it deep down somewhere. But, with all these articles are comming across now we are really trying to accept what can be a very bleak future if things are sorted out in time… I really hope BIG time that Its not another LEEDS in the making….
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@Red Ranter: And that’s why I admire this place so much and I am one of the many addicts here. I mean even though this is not a full time work for you are really doing a great job mate keeping it under control and maintained over a period of time. I agree that articles and news may not be updated on time but for that we have other sources and who says its not updated all the regulars here do that job for you isn’t it. I mean anything happening around the concerning Man UTD is getting mentioned and debated here as well.
I really appreaciate all the efforts you and other regulars are putting in it….
CHEERS mate…..Continue the great work….
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@Red Ranter: I am happy you are in charge of redrants.com. You are doing a great job!
One thing I would like added would be poll once in a while — just to gauge general redrants.com viewpoints in a compact fashion. For example, pre-season predictions of team location at xmas and end of season. Who is going to be our surprise player of the year. etc… It would add some interesting results I am sure (and gauge the total number of readers on this blog)…. just an idea
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@Red Ranter: I would like to give you one suggestion matey regarding couple of thing.
I saw the list of (I think….) telegraph where you were (rather I should say we all were) ranked in Top 10 Man UTD sites. And there they have mentioned that the news bit and article don’t keep the pace (don’t remember the exact wordings), which to an some extent I agree. OK what keep this place alive is you and all the regulars here are cheaping in with all the views and reviews.
But, I was just wondering one thing, I don’t know whether its practical or not but, why can’t you nominate people (regulars) from this very blog to do certain job.
I mean for Example, Traverse I always find that he has some breaking news here and there which he normally shares with us before any one else, Dan we all know about his knowledge and views about the reserve, And who doesn’t know about the Grogy and Redrich…
Why not let this people take some or the responsibility voluntarily (of course if they are free and available to this) and have some kind of access to this place where in they can actually contributing in form of Articles or News bit as well…
What it will do is (in my view) this will keep this place alive more even in form of articles and news as well, secondly it will give due justice to all the people who want to chip in something serious and the most importantly it will attract new people here which will definitely increase the popularity of the place. In the end thats what we all want.. We wnat more and more Man UTD people here…
See I am a part of one such blog from our profession of course in India where in Administrator/Moderator has delegated the some responsibilities to other people. I don’t know whether is it possible practically but one things for as no one doing all this for earning MONEY i think this can be done…
Whatever your opinion is please reply to it with what you feel…..
I would also welcome the opinions from others as well………
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Good Ideas bro actually i was also thinking of some ways to make this place even better. I really feel this place has already become a part of my life. And we all to improve the things which you feel are important in your life isn’t it???
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@Red Ranter: I don’t know if I was right in putting these all suggestion in public domain but this was the only way I could have interacted with you…
Its just that I feel this is part of life so I wanted to make already great place even better…
So, apologies if i was wrong to put up things publicly but still I would like you to consider the same….
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@Onkar: No worries. But for your information (for future consideration), this is not the only way to interact with me. There is a contact tab at the top of the page.
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@Red Ranter:
Didn’t see it… But, still I would really like to know what is your take on suggestions I have put across…..
Anyway, will remember about the Contact Tab… Cheers Mate…
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only if united had played 50% like this agaisnt liverpool.. RAFA would have been fired.. m happy that did not happen.
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@adie: Yeah…. We can say one thing loud and clear….
“IN RAFA WE TRUST”…..
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I fail to see the connection between that article and United specifically. We’ve known for a awhile that the glazers aren’t exactly Arab billionaires, but please don’t try and make some “Michael Moore-esque” connection between two things that may or may not have anything to do with each other.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Can you please explain to me how the United debt went from under £700m to a little over £1B in a 3 year span where we won 3 titles a CL and a runner up?
I need to see some actual figures before I believe this rubbish. I might believe the glazers are plunged into that sort of debt, but I fail to see how our club is operating at a defecit of £100m a year. Considering our wage bill is at 49% of our income, the club owns Old Trafford a 76k seater stadium that is virtually sold out every game, and the United brand is one of the most valuable in the world.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m no economist, but some of these doomsday scenarios seem a little exagerrated with every UK rag trying to outdo the other.
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@Johnsom33:
1. It is suspicious that Tamba Bay is 30 million below salary cap.
2. It is suspicious that Glazers are selling large volume of stock in current market conditions (it is a time for buying stock)
3. The US economy suffered heavily this past year and I am not surprised if the Glazers lost a lot of money
4. It is suspicious that rumors are popping up about the Glazers looking to sell the Tamba Bay buckaneers
5. The 1.8 billion dollars figure was debunked by the Glazer family but if we have not even reduced our debt over the past 3 years of success I think we are in trouble. Unfortunately, the ONLY people that know anything about MUFC finances are the Glazers and they surely will not disclose anything damaging to their enterprises…
I am just saying…
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