Dec 09
Reds Warm Up for Anfield, With Derby Win
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So as expected, United comfortably saw off Derby County on their way to a 4-1 win. Giggs opened the scoring, Tevez added two and Ronaldo capped it off at the death, converting a penalty.
To be honest, Derby would consider themselves a little fortunate, as they could have faced us on better days. Yesterday was a terrible, terrible day. It was pouring from the skies for the entire period of the match the pitch started off soggy and ended up like a swimming pool. A pass would involve kicking a stream of water along with the ball. At the end of the day, Derby County’s kit — which, by the way, appears to me as the best part of their side, with their minimalistic all-white look — was all muddied.
So, naturally, our passing and fluency were all missing for large periods of the game. It’s good to see that they did put four past them. Although, they could have scored more.
About the match, well, the goal came quite late in the first half when Ronaldo’s fierce shot could only be parried away by Bywater, before Giggs came on hand to slot it home. It was his 100th league goal for the club — an outstanding achievement and, as the manager said, there ought to have been a big deal made out of it. But soon afterwards, in the 45th minute, Tevez scored one off a free-kick from Ronaldo; He completely missed his first attempt, but recovered quickly enough to put it past the ‘keeper.
The second half saw us putting more pressure and, on the hour, Tevez burst into the area and drilled a shot into the left corner of the goal. Derby did pull one back but that was hardly a threatening situation. They would rejoice though, because it was their first ever away goal of their season.
The 90′ saw Ronaldo diving to win a penalty and subsequently convert it.
There were plenty of chances that went missing, although, we always do create so many against such teams. Rooney would wonder what he really did wrong to have found the post instead of the net. Giggsy’s volley hit the post too. And plenty such occasions were there.
In terms of performances, Tevez had a brilliant day, running all over the pitch — tracking back, winning balls, making good runs, and, of course, scoring two goals. Anderson was also excellent; he had some deft touches, some long range passing and tracked back. Giggs had a good game today, and hopefully it should shut his doubters for a few games. He will not play this way always, but he sure does give the ball away far less than Nani, who would certainly improve with time.
Hargreaves was ruled out earlier during a warm up with a calf injury but it was more precautionary.
One final issue that needs to be talked about would be regarding Ronaldo’s decision to take the penalty. There has been a lot made about his ’selfishness’. I would fault him for not being gracious enough to give the chance to a fellow teammate who was on a hat-trick. But the selfish streak in Ronaldo is what galvanises the team. We saw how we played at the start of the season, where some pretty football and passing the ball around was gentle on the eye but never had the cutting edge and directness to create something. This is what Ronaldo brings in the side. The absence of a genuine poacher makes Ronaldo’s selfishness all the more important to the team. Let’s remember that he has become a much better judge of making the choice between scoring and creating. And while I still can’t accept his diving antics, I do accept him for showing desire to always be on the scoresheet. The hunger is what drives him on, and I am willing to accept him for it — even if it means situations like what happened yesterday.
Oh, and one final thing about Liverpool yesterday — HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fuckin’ scouse twats! There goes your title and hopefully, your Champions’ League too. Come on, Marseille!
Update: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the Gunners as well. Just one more point behind. Next week would be crucial.
Related items from Red Rants:- Derby County v Man Utd: Preview
- SAF Sounds Words of Caution | Safety Arrangements for Roma
- Man Utd vs Derby County: Preview
- So How Good Is Ben Foster? — A Watford Fan’s Perspective
- Some More Thoughts Ahead of the Scouse Trip
Tags: Match Reports
December 9th, 2007 at 12:45
i think giggs and ferdi were spot on with their comments on the penalty situation..the penalty taker should always take the penalties..no matter what the situation..and its the same with all teams..gerrard took the spot kick when torres could have had his hattrick..its not selfishness..its just professionalism..and Come on Marseille!!!
December 9th, 2007 at 13:09
no its selfishness, its ronaldo, a penalty is only place where im confident he’ll score(outside open play). anyway we should divert are attetion to the roma match and team selection i think it will be:
PIG
simmo peeks evans oshea
eagles carrick * nani
it will be tevez and saha or dong and saha upfront
*its a toss up between fletch and andy.
i’ll expect hargo, another first-teamer, and a bunch of reserves.
December 9th, 2007 at 14:23
http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=68637
hmmmm, they’ve been right before, and i can imagine this but we would need a hell of a replacement.
December 9th, 2007 at 14:42
Middlesbourough 1 0 arsenal !i cant fuckin believe this they look rattled but its only 9 mins.
December 9th, 2007 at 15:44
Dan more often than not tribal football make up absolute shit out of nowhere, that should be obvious due to many of there ‘reports’ having no evidence, and the only reason they ‘reported’ that is because we all know Ronaldo would like to go to spain one day and that barcelona(just like any other team) want him in their team, it won’t happen though.
December 9th, 2007 at 16:09
Middles 2 0 arsenal ha ha ha ha ha
December 9th, 2007 at 16:12
Arsenal 0 2 midd ha ha ha ha ha
December 9th, 2007 at 16:17
Shows how much I know about football! Good call from Jameso I have to say, Arsenal have been terrible during the whole game. Somehow Middlesborough always seem to do well against the big teams…
December 9th, 2007 at 16:21
Agreed conor il never forget the 4 1 drubbing they have us.they are totally outplaying arsenal. it actually could have been 4 0.this shows what injuries can do to squads.and its bout time other teams got some!
December 9th, 2007 at 16:33
haha.arsenal were outplayed today.they really needed .cesc,helb and van persie.we r 1 point behind them.we can take the lead this christmas.hope we do not lose or draw any game.
December 9th, 2007 at 17:35
Just looking through the fixtures list and looks like December’s going to get a hell lot more difficult for Arsenal. Their next Prem games include: Chelsea, Blackburn away, Tottenham, Portsmouth away, and Everton away…WOW! I think they are surely going to drop a few points during that span of games. For those who wrote Chelsea off earlier, they are again on the rise. This season looks set for an exciting race to the finish line as all top 4 sides are relatively close to one another. Let’s just hope we are the ones who come out on top. GO UNITED!
December 9th, 2007 at 18:37
its been coming, last weekend arsenal won at villa, but could of lost it in the second half, wednesday, they struggle and take a point, today they lose to a crappy bottom of the league team, yesterday liverfool lose at reading, so its looking like the top 4 teams are back to usual form apart from united, i predict an easy 3-0 or 3-1 win for chelsea, and a 2-1 win for us.
December 9th, 2007 at 18:43
city fans have got to be shattered today with a loss to spurs and Hatton fought bravely but was put back by maywethers speed and accuracy. he won alot of respect in the us though.
December 9th, 2007 at 19:58
now the table is looking good
ARSE”O”Nal and LiverFOOLS next week u guys are going down and we are coming up
Chelsea arsenal draw and we kill “Fuckin’ scouse twats!”
Go on United
And chk out this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7134842.stm
December 9th, 2007 at 21:01
nah judgeing by current form, chelski will win.
December 9th, 2007 at 21:13
so anyway, what do you people think of anderson, you think by the time scholes is recoverd he’ll have piped him out of the first team? or does he still have a lot to prove? IMHO he’s excellent but needs to score more, and run past defenders too, but if you look at it, scholes dosent run pass defenders either or score that much and anderson is much more energetic and creative, whats your opinion?
December 9th, 2007 at 21:51
Yep dan spot on.i think scholes has to be left out because if youve noticed the our scoring really only began when anderson came into the side. scholes isnt the same midfielder he was.he doesnt make forward runs.anderson injects pace and urgency into our side which makes for rapid counter attacks.thats why we havent missed scholes one bit.i think it would also be unfair to keep a an old head in the side when a star could be developed.scholes though would be needed for big games in a 3 man midfield.hargo,anderson,scholes.i doubt saf would leave scholes out though.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:07
Anderson has been phenomonal in our midfield. When Scholes has been out before, it has always left a looming Black Hole. It was different this time.
There is no way I would have believed that one of our new signings would had such an impact if I hadn’t seen it for myself. This is a teenager who had a broken leg last year for god sakes. The fact that he can step up into first team football, and have a major impact in a game against Arsenal, really shows what an eye for talent SAF still has. (I’m hoping he stays on as Sir Alex the Super Scout when he’s through managing!!!) I suppose that I am most impressed with his ability to win balls, and the effort he makes to get those challenges in, often in front of our D line.
No, I don’t see anyone taking over Scholes spot in midfield. He is United’s Maestro and will be at least through this year. My perfect scenario has Anderson as Paul’s Protoge for the remainder of the season.
I will agree that Scholes isn’t the same he was, but…he is still Scholes. He adds a tremendous amount of composure to the side, and you just can’t ‘interject’ the kind of big game experience he possess. The same kind that had the French go bonkers when Giggs snuck in a super cheeky free kicklast year that sent us through to the next Champions League round. I belive that Anderson, bright kid that he is, will learn quite a bit from observing Scholes in big game situations.
Anderson still seems a bit timid and unable to ‘let himself go’. It tells me that he values the club quite a bit and that he is not wanting to make an error that would leave us exposed at the back. It also shows that he is aware that he has stepped into the biggest club in the world and clearly he respects the Man Utd tradition. While he is still a bit young and needs to mature, as anyone would, he can easily cover for Scholes, but he won’t replace him..at least not yet!
December 10th, 2007 at 3:42
You can never find a replacement for Scholes. The way he controls the match on the mid-field is just awesome. Anderson cannot be compared to Scholes now. He might improve in the future. It’s nice to see that he is getting some games. The match against Liverpool will decide out fate for the Title.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:40
It won’t decide anything although it is quite a crucial game for us. No title decisions yet. I do have to say that it’s reassuring to see Arsenal and Liverpool finally concede defeats. That was gnawing at me. It is a very exciting table but we do have some momentum to draw confidence from. Its good to see Ronaldo get these late goal esp. the free kick at Sporting. The fourth at Derby made him top scorer in Premiership now as well as in Europe. He’s really putting forth a good argument for FIFA Player of the Year.
On another note, anyone notice any players who isn’t cup-tied we can buy in January.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:41
Why would the pool game decide our fate?
the top 4 has some big games coming up , and we’re only in the middle of the season.
ANDERSON’s needed in this united side. im starting to feel like anderson’s one of those players which when left out of the side, united might not perform. like ronaldo and rooney.. though obviously they have a larger impact.
anyone thinks the same?
December 10th, 2007 at 9:42
Arsenal finally drop one. Well that makes things very interesting now. Also, Liverpool losing at Reading may mean that we are catching them on a low next weekend. Then again, they may be sky high as they try to rebound from that loss. United should be happy to come out of Anfield with a draw. Seriously though, what are the chances of us beating them there two years in a row? We can only hope.
I hope Fergie has had a nice little talk with Ronaldo. His attitude during the game bothered me and it culminated with his selfish display against teammate Tevez when he chose to freeze out Carlos and take the penalty, thus negating Tevez’s chance for a hat trick.
His unwillingness to take part in goal celebrations that didn’t involve him has me thinking there may be something bad brewing. And as this is happening, Barcelona hierarchy are claiming that if they sell Ronaldinho, they will attempt a record swoop and buy Ronny from us. Bullshit I’m sure but if his current attitude doesn’t improve, Fergie may scream at him and then what? Fragile ego’s can surprise us. I know, I know, I’m probably making a mountain out of a mole hill but his body language during that penalty really bothered me. I’ve never seen a player turn down the request of a teammate when a hat trick was possible and the game out of question. It was the height of greed and selfishness and I for one lost a lot of respect for the lad. Keep in mind he is my second favorite player in all of football. I hope I read the situation all wrong. He’s a joy to watch but is he getting a little too high on himself?
December 10th, 2007 at 10:14
yes, i have been noticing ronaldo for quite a while now……..he never takes part in the goal celebrations if he is not the scorer…….
if he assist one, he runs towards the crowd (opposite direction of the team) as if he has scored it, and probably that is the reason tevez never (a bit exaggerated) passes the ball to him in the penalty box……
rooney used to tolerate ronaldo’s attitude before tevez was here…..but now rooney has found a player he can trust on, and prefers him over ronaldo for 50-50 passes…….
I know i am reading between the lines too much but i dont see ronaldo at OT after 2-3 years……
December 10th, 2007 at 10:49
A lot of reading between the lines and analysing body language in here. I guess it’s a good thing that none of us know what the players think.
Yes it seemed a little selfish of Ronaldo to insist on taking the penalty, but he’s a player that surely needs to score for us the next couple of months, so I don’t see it as a problem that he keeps his confidence high… surely Tevez will have no confidence issues scoring twice. To me, you can be a team player but still be selfish on occasion. Remember that these players all want to be the best of the best, and in order to accomplish that, they have to think of their own form once in a while.
I haven’t noticed Ronaldo’s lack of presence in the goal celebrations. Obviously he should participate with the others, so that should be delt with by SAF.
He’s developing a sort of an Henry type of arrogance, and it doesn’t look good. It’s like he’s the best and just wants to be praised, but it could be just a fase. To me he’s looked a bit frustrated lately, because his own game hasn’t been that great (apart from scoring a lot). He’s given away possession more than he likes to, and I think a lot of these arrogant attitudes and the penalty “incident” are due to a bit of frustration that will hopefully disappear sooner rather than later.
Next weekend is crucial, and I can’t wait for us to beat the scousers. They have a difficult game tomorrow, and they’ll have to play every decent player they have to progress in the CL. That gives us a noticable edge ahead of sunday’s game, because they’ll be mentally strained (also considering their loss at Reading). To me, it’s a golden opportunity to come away with 3 points a leave them behind in the title race.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:19
Sorry mates, i was away over the weekend. what a lovly weekend it was. Liverfools get beaten & arsholes get thrashed after a terrible display (1 shot on goal in the whole game ). I remember posting that borough would come thru, & some of u all doubted me. It is always hard playing fucking relegation teams, especially if u have an old boy (aliad). I remember telling Man Utd jaluo & Grog in paticular that best arshole would get from the game is a draw. Hey they not only suprised me by beating arshole, but thy outplayed dem suckers (finally punished from having a bad day). You could see the fucked up arsene wanker knew his team were being over run by the borough lads.
As for the liverfool lads, just hope Rafa is still the gaffer wen we play them. Saw their game with reading (Why the fucking hell did tht lad carragher not get a yellow for that pen), they too were awful especially in the 2nd half. Maybe pressure is telling on all them suckers. Imagine if carragher was suspended against us, thy would hav had a back line of Hypia and that new guy against us. Again i hope Rafa is d coach when we play them (if he dosen’t beat mars, word around here is he would be sacked )
December 10th, 2007 at 12:05
Yeah Ronaldo’s body language is really strange this season - he looks pissed right off all match except when he scores, when he kind of confidently shrugs and smiles…then goes back ot pouting and looking annoyed. I don’t get it. To be honest, why would he leave though? Surely with a front line of Tevez, Rooney, Anderson, Nani and co, where would he be better off?
December 10th, 2007 at 12:12
come on u mates, give ronny a break. Not bcos carlito is on a hat, means he should pass the responsibilityb to him, even gerrard did it the other day to torres. His passion to score comes with his love for the club. even wazza has that passion too.Ronny is our penalty taker . Even the crowd chanting Argentina, Argentina, would not make him pass the bantle to carlito.
So u lads should stop giving him stick.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:56
ronaldo did right thing by taking the penalty himself, we know that tevez is not as good a finisher as ronaldo is………but he did not do it because it was right thing to do, he did it because he was being selfish……..
Anyway we are happy as long as we are getting the goals………..i just wish that this team stays together (at least they will till SAF is here) for a long long time and keep bringing the trophies to OT……….
December 10th, 2007 at 13:25
I love Anderson to bits, but I don’t think SAF will replace him with Scholes just yet. I do believe however that he will get much more playing time than SAF originally had in mind for him.
Why are we trying to excuse Ronaldo’s selfish act? Seems like we are becomiming like the scousers that will defend Gerrard to the death. The game was already won by the time of the penalty. He should have given it. What bothers me more though is the way he shrugged Tevez off, almost as if to say “…fuck off…”. These are the instances where we really need a captain like Keane. With Gary’s “new” injury, I think SAF should seriously consider naming another captain this season still.
I love Ronaldo, but he is selfish. A good quality for a striker (except he is a winger).
December 10th, 2007 at 13:32
What pisses me off about Arse-nal’s defeat is that everybody is so quick to point out that they have Cesc, Hleb, Flamini and RVP out injured. They all seem to forget that we were at one stage without 8 first team players…yet, we got the reults.
December 10th, 2007 at 14:31
What do you guys think of the news on the site that ronny might play against Roma. I hope SAF dosen’t use him. Imagine him picking up an injury b4 the liverfool game.
December 10th, 2007 at 14:56
Ronaldo may not be the best team player in United’s history (or in any other team’s history as a matter of fact) but seriously even with all the match winners that we have in our team like Rooney, Tevez, Anderson, Nani, Hargo, Vidic, etc etc our team just would not function as well without his presence. He has an attitude problem, no doubt about that but all great players have their own dark sides and it’s just part of the package. Sure SAF is well aware and hopefully we will be able to keep him at OT for as long as we can. With the current set up we can dominate Europe for the next few years if we do it right.
December 10th, 2007 at 15:04
I’m also worried about Ronaldo. He is at the club because it serves his ambitions (recognition, platform to improve, trophies etc), not because he loves the club. In a way this is good because he has a desire to star which makes him win games for us. But at the same time I can see it alienating other players who are stars in their own right.
I thought he would be happier this year with Nani and Anderson adding to the Portuguese speaking contingent. But I think it is possible Tevez’s arrival has shook him up a bit, especially since the fans have taken to him so much.
However my impression of Ronaldo is that he’s one of these people who is naturally moody but can channel this discontent into becoming even better, in the same way as Henry, Cantona and other sulky players. It would be easy for him to let his success go to his head, but being Ronaldo he will never be satisfied with his performances and will also want to be better. Which is good news for Man Utd!
December 10th, 2007 at 15:27
matt must be english.without ronaldo,u moan,when he is on sweating blood for the team u moan.what do you want?i mean this is our best player we are talking about.i would rather u say thank u instead of being biased.when he didnt produce end result,there was a problem.even when he does???????a team is not run like you want but like it should.he should take the penalties.tevez should be proffessional next time.wait till they hand him the ball.if he hadnt gone to ronaldo begging,would you have complained?
December 10th, 2007 at 15:58
This will be the first time I will be commenting here, but I have been reading every comment on here for over 8months now and I most say I’ve really enjoy myself reading every comment and argument on here as I’m a died hard Man United fan from Nigeria. I decided to comment today because I have read alot about your guys comment on Carrick, but I was wondering why non of you is saying anything about is performance against Derby. So what do you guys think, do you think we should let this guy leave. I would prefer him and Hargo starting against Liverpool as I think Anderson still have alot to learn. Don’t get my wrong, I love watching Anderson he’s a great kid and he will be the one to take over after Scholes.
And for Ronaldo, I like to see him get on the score shit as I want him to be the top scorer in the premier league this season but not letting Tevez getting the hat trick is a Selfish Act of the highest order I have ever experience in the game. I think SAF had to cover up for him just to avoid Tevez taking it the wrong way. I’m sure he won’t have taking the spot kick if Rooney was the one to get the hat trick no matter the situation of the game. He (Ronaldo) still got a big space in my heart and I wish SAF will leave him out of the team against Roma just to keep him fresh for the game against Liverpool. I agree with you Grognard we should be happy to come out of Anfield with a draw, though I dont see us losing the game but I will be happy with a draw.
December 10th, 2007 at 16:14
Read the first comment…Of course it’s mine…you don’t have to repeat what I said there…OK I use the English language worse than you do…but JUST SAY IT …NiKOS IS RIGHT ABOUT RONALDO….And of course I’m not on drugs! I ‘m just trying to immitate my football idol , ROOOONALDO! fck of ronaldo…get rid of him as soon as possible!
December 10th, 2007 at 16:33
yes, ronaldo is selfish and was wrong to take the penalty……. but we are WINNING….. thats the only reason Sir Alex is putting up with this…. if he feels that ronaldo’s selfishness is hurting the team spirit or if ronaldo starts to think that he’s bigger than the team, then we have a manager who isnt afraid to throw him out…. so u guys, relax and watch the show…. besides, we all know that ronaldo isnt gonna spend his career here….
December 10th, 2007 at 17:15
if we had a trophyless season, i would imagine ronaldo being the only player to walk out the door, he’s arrogant, but we need to see, he’s still a kid(if you know what i mean) and for people to say your the best in the world you are going to get a bit to high for your boots but thats no an excuse though. what i find funny is that anderson who plays in an attacking role is afraid to lose the ball and ronaldo will run don the wing and not give a damn.
December 10th, 2007 at 17:50
I’m fine with Ronnie taking the pen, Fergie has said that the penalty taker on the team does not change given the scenario, so that’s all good.
I agree I thought Carrick was great, fair enough it was only Derby, but stilll. His range of passing and compsure was the best I’ve seen him this season, he also controlled the tempo very well, and acted as a bit ofa metronome for Anderson. Maybe the two of them are actually the future…?
December 10th, 2007 at 19:15
I can’t believe everyone is making such a big deal about Ronaldo taking the penalty, he is our penalty taker, Tevez is a pretty poor finisher and probably would’ve missed, then evryone would’ve been sayin “Oh but Ronaldo is our penalty taker, he should’ve taken it”, he won it himself and plenty of people have done this before, plenty, he’s not at the point where he is overly selfish, and in truth I think he takes less shots than before(an example being when he decided to chip the free kick rather than shoot for Tevez’s first). Right now there is no problem and we should not be assuming he will get more arrogant, its stupid and no-one knows what wil happen in the future.
December 10th, 2007 at 19:16
Cocxxy; Welcome aboard mate. Hopefully you will continue contributing your views to the site now that you are no longer a virgin. A for Michael Carrick, yes he played well but I didn’t think he was outstanding. He just did his DMF job well in the place of Hargo. But then again, a chimpanzee could have done that job against Derby who were just awful. He needs to find consistency and occasionally break out of his SAFE MODE.
December 10th, 2007 at 19:17
Its gonna be interesting to see the side Fergie puts out on Weds, i reckon rooney may play to get some vital match sharpness.
——————-Kuziack———————
Simpson—-Brown—-Pique—-O’Shea
Eagles—-Fletcher—-Carrick——Nani
————Rooney——- Saha————-
Great news that Park may be back in the next couple of weeks, I think he will have an important part to play this season especially as Giggs cant play every gane and Nani is still trying to settle in and get some consistency to his game.
December 10th, 2007 at 19:50
Two things have happened in the past week that make me wonder about Ronaldo’s future with the club. As well, they may explain his attitude on the pitch and towards his teammates.
The first thing was the fact that Ronaldo lost to Kaka for European Player of the Year. Now this may seem minor but even Ronaldo knows that players in the EPL have always been ignored for that award and that he knows the award will go to a player either playing in Italy or Spain 9 out 10 times. His ego is hurt and he may feel frustrated. Thus, he is showing that frustration on the pitch and off, as Manchester United doesn’t seem to be “European” enough for the voters to give him the award, whether he deserves it or not. Personally speaking, the award should have gone to Leo Messi but Kaka does not deserve it over Ronny.
The second incident I already alluded to yesterday. The strong stench of Spanish giants is making it’s way to OT. Barcelona’s CEO has come out and said that when, and not if he sells Ronaldinho, he will use the transfer kitty gained and add to it for a world record transfer swoop for our boy Ronaldo.
Now Manchester United are big enough a club to ignore those kinds of dollars, Euros or pounds being waved at us, but are the Glazer’s and can Ronaldo resist the temptation to go play for a Spanish giant where he will be revered as a god playing next door to his neighboring homeland? Even though Barcelona is Messi’s team as United is Rooney’s, Ronaldo’s ego may not be able to resist now because of the continued ignorance of the world and European media’s contempt and ignorance of the British game. England’s performance in EURO 08 qualifying has also brought down the prestige of the league. The only reason players and coaches still want to come here is because of the money and to get away from the corruption and supporter violence that is destroying the domestic game in Italy and Spain.
I really believe these two events coupled with his indifferent pay at times may be signs of disenchantment. Tevez and Anderson getting so much applause and buzz is also threatening his status as “The One” and his youth and relative immaturity may be be susceptible to a Spanish seduction.
When I was young I intentionally ignored and treated a girlfriend poorly so that she would break up with me because I was in love with another girl. Being immature, I felt it was the best way to get her to lose interest in me. Could Ronny be doing the same thing to pave his road to Spain? I know I’m reading between the line and making a lot of conjecture but if I’m right, you’ll all know you heard it from me first. You can see it in the body language people. He clearly is full of himself and Fergie hasn’t done anything about it because he is always under pressure to win. He may be letting things slide for now but when the door knocks and Barca or Real are on the other side, will he be able to convince Ronny to honor his contract and the Glazer’s not to accept the record transfer fee for a player who may not want to stay. With this obvious on field friction with teammates showing, it may be early signs of terrible things to come. God I hope I’m wrong and totally out of my mind but to quote Han Solo, “I have a bad feeling about this”.
December 10th, 2007 at 19:57
Ryan; After his recent injury I would be absolutely shocked to see Rooney on the pitch. I also believe he will start with only Saha up front in a 4-5-1. Losing isn’t the concern, limiting the damage is. Losing 1-0 or 2-0 won’t bother Fergie a bit and so he will be playing for a 0-0 draw and perhaps throw Rooney in late to win it 1-0 or salvage a 1-1 tie. The rest of your lineup makes perfect sense. Although I could still see Giggs and either Vidic or Rio play because he will need a leader to captain the club.
December 10th, 2007 at 20:39
i wouldn’t mind a swap deal with messi and a midfielder involved
December 10th, 2007 at 20:55
Grogy and all,
Looks like you guys are watching too many movies these days! Fantastic imagination really. So now out of nowhere Ronaldo has developed attitude problems (this when he has had a season of 20 assists and uncountable goals!) He just had a rough start (suspension) plus having to play with a relatively newer team (OH, Anderson, Nani, Tevez are all still very new) so naturally it will take at least some time for all of them to understand each other’s game, their movement etc. Its one thing to do things in training but quite another on the big stage. I fully expect things to only improve as the season progresses. We are just acting like very stupid and spoilt fans, weaving imaginary theories about anything and everything. If anything Rooney has more of an attitude problem than Ronaldo (but not selfishness).
Somebody mentioned EPOTY being one reason for Ronaldo’s discontent! I think he himself must be knowing Kaka is the best and most logical choice for the award (he was the best player on biggest EUROPEAN stage, the CL so a natural choice. I dont know why Messi is there despite missing more than half of hte season.. Drogba/Totti did more than him and won more than him). Ronaldo is definitely in with a bigger chance with FIFA WPOTY though. I dont believe in this Spain/Italy thing. The best players WERE indeed playing in those countries (were Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Ronaldhino not natural choices? Probably in England most ppl watch only English footy so they assume all this sh*t about conspiracies)
December 10th, 2007 at 21:18
Im hoping united take the lad danny welbeck from the reserves.was watching mutv and he looks quite a player,pace,skill and he has a henry-esque touch.and boy can he finish.hes only 17 i think and it would be could to give the lad a chance.hes different to all the lads the academy are producing.i dont know the reason but our youth setup is producing unskillful,strong running,talkling players.typical english its ok for a few of them but the whole reserve team is made up of these boys.this lad welbeck is different though.
December 10th, 2007 at 22:03
JOS; I think my theory would be referred to as paranoia, not stupidity. I’m not stupid nor do I like being referred to as stupid. What I am is an intelligent and concerned fan who has followed the sport for many decades and who has seen this kind of pattern with players before. And it usually amounts to a quick exit due to discontent. The reasons may be different but it all comes down to two things, EGO and MONEY. Ronaldo has the ego and Barca have the money.
After what has happened with Stam, Beckham, van Nistelrooy and Keane, I don’t think it as stupid or unreasonable for someone like myself to wonder if these on the pitch actions by Ronaldo may not be hinting at something. Like I also said in my last post, I might be making a mountain out of a mole hill so I doubt very much that I didn’t cover my back when I hinted at this problem.
I do believe I admitted to offering a bit of conjecture, which of course should always be taken with a grain of salt. Remember this, the cultural trappings of Spain will always attract a player like Ronaldo. So Barca trying to seduce him should be expected. He knows this and so he also may be trying to get away with murder knowing that he has an out clause if things get bad. Any man who hires girls for an orgy has immaturity and attitude problems as well as an over sized ego. Am I overreacting, probably, but what if I’m proven right. Be prepared to wipe that egg off your face if I am. I’m protected. I’ve already admitted that I could be way off base with this theory. I just threw it out there because I have a bad feeling in my belly. think Ronaldo is going to betray us with his greed and the greed the Glazer’s will show when Barca wave a big transfer fee in their faces.
December 10th, 2007 at 22:37
The Sunday Mirror is reporting that Fergie is ready to buy Ronaldinho as soon as Barca are ready to finally sell him. Te article goes on to hint that this is a serious offer from Fergie and that it may take as much as 15m to acquire him.
Now why would Fergie want Ronaldinho? He’s getting older, his form has been so poor that Riijkard benched him for the last two matches and he seems very moody these days. Maybe he is planning a trade with Barca where they spend money and offer Ronaldinho for Ronaldo. Otherwise how would you fit Ronaldinho and Ronaldo on the same pitch together? The article is probably bullshit but once again, I smell something stinky and it’s not coming from Denmark. (A Shakespearian reference in case some of you don’t get it)
Also what is with Fergie’s interest in Agbonalahor? He’s yet another winger. We are over saturated with wingers and midfielders. Perhaps someone should remind Fergie that it is strikers we are in short supply of.
December 10th, 2007 at 23:43
Any ideas on who shot JFK Grognard
This is a hell of a lot of conjecture and idle speculation. On the European Player of the Year, he lost because in his two head to head meetings with Kaka he came out a distant second best. Now there are plenty of mitigating circumstances for this but I’m sure most journalists didn’t take into account fatigue or the absence of Ferdinand etc when casting their votes. I’ve cast my eye over the recent winners of the award and while English based players don’t feature prominently I find it hard to disagree with most of the winners. If anything there is a pro Brazil bias rather than an anti English one.
On the supposed Spanish ’stench’, there has been no reported movement since Ronaldo signed his contract. This tapping up by Barca has certainly passed me by if it is the case. The latest quotes coming from Laporta are - “We are not going to sell Ronaldinho, we are not in contact with any other team (about him).” He has also been reported as privately criticising Rijkaard to journalists for dropping Ronaldinho. In the ‘battle’ between Ronaldinho and Rijkaard the suits at the Nou Camp seem to currently be on the players side.
Now the £15m price tag, here we have the famous mythical FIFA buyout clause been trotted out again by the press. This clause does not yet have anywhere near the standing of the Bosman ruling. The one major attempt to use it, Andy Webster, was a complete balls up from start to finish, with the player having to go via Wigan to get to Rangers. An interesting write up on the clause if anyone is bored.
http://www.chelseablog.com/2006/09/01/do-players-have-a-right-to-buy-out-the-last-year-of-their-contract/
P.S. Agbonlahor is a striker by trade and has played there in the absence of Carew. He also plays there for the U-21’s. The reason for him being played as a wide forward is that O’Neill likes to play with one central striker and the attributes of the forwards at his disposal make Carew the natural choice to play down the middle.
December 11th, 2007 at 0:07
A more general view on this supposed attitude problem with Ronaldo – what a pile of bullshit IMO. On the penalty, he is the designated penalty taker, if he doesn’t want to hand it over he shouldn’t have to. The one similar incident that rings to mind is Beckham giving the ball to Forlan to break his duck a few years ago. Interestingly Beckham was rumoured to have got a bollocking from Keane in training the next day for a lack of professionalism. In addition Tevez can hardly complain after ignoring Ronaldo time and again against Fulham. Finally two of the clubs senior players and manager have come out in support of Ronaldo’s decision. What exactly is the issue, greed or Ronaldo not bending over to convenience Tevez?
Cocxxy I can’t think of the exact game, but RVN previously took a penalty when Rooney was on a hat trick.
I have also seen his celebrations criticised. All the celebrations at the weekend were fairly low key. He was pumping his fist at the first goal and was in the pile of players congratulating Tevez for the second. Although there was no sign of him for the third it is interesting to note for example that Tevez didn’t even raise an arm in celebration for the first. The celebrations were probably mute because of the standard of the opposition and the weather, nothing else.
Ronaldo moving to Spain, I don’t view as a betrayal (although that may depend on the circumstances). He has made it clear from the beginning that at some point he wants to play for a big Spanish club. Personally I’m already resigned to the fact that he will leave the club before the end of his career, but that is a fair few years away yet and none of this conjecture has convinced me that this is an imminent danger.
December 11th, 2007 at 0:28
I knew it would be me that brought JB out of hiding. And as I thought he would be the one on the grassy knoll taking a shot at my theory. Good to see you back JB. I’m glad I stirred up the old circulation a bit.
I happen to agree with you and I agree that what I brought up was nothing more than conjecture and a bit of paranoia. All this crap coming out of Spain is making me wonder if they (being Barcelona) are no tapping up Ronaldo? Probably not, but you never know. Certainly Sporting are pissed with Queiroz for the very same stuff. Add to this the rumors of Ronaldinho wanting Man U instead of Chelski and a creative but paranoid mind like mine can come up with many scenarios. Nevertheless, nothing to lose sleep over.
December 11th, 2007 at 0:47
Grognard: My absence was due to work commitments in Dublin for the past couple of weeks, leaving me with minimal time on the internet - which had to be spent on far more important things (like expense claims
) You were nearly beaten to the punch as I was going to reply to some of the others yesterday about Ronaldo but I couldn’t be bothered typing all of that out when I got home.
Are you hearing any other rumours from Spain, because I’ve seen nothing in the usual media sources about Barcelona and Ronaldo. One link from Tribalfootball does not a story make. None of the usual sources for Spanish football matters that I would trust have mentioned anything about a bid (or even an interest) for Ronaldo.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:25
i’m sorry grognard, i have to take JB’s side on this one!!!! i dont think we shuld be too worried about whats going on behind the scenes because we dont know all the facts…. and we also know that ronaldo WILL leave (regardless of his relationship with other players or the management is gonna have any effect on that)……
JB, i will say one thing though…. if i were u, i wuldnt pay too much attention to what laporta says…. the barca and real presidents love to run their mouth and keep the fans in the dark!! i did read somewhere that ronaldinho’s brother said that Milan and Barca discussed the player when the club representitived met during the G-14 conference (i know i know, thats not a very reliable source either!!)
December 11th, 2007 at 5:57
grogy dear
we dont have to seriously take tabloids esp the likes of tribalfooty, daily mail/mirror, and all of spainish media!they are all but piles of rubbish!!! Both Barca & Real are notorious for promising lots of high-profile signings (esp the presidential hopefuls do that a lot) and their media spews all sorts of nonsense towards that. if we were to go by them, then Fabregas, kaka would already be playing for Barca/Real!!! Not to mention the likes of lampard, gerrard, ronaldo etc.
So long Sir Alex is there, I dont see Ronaldo leaving Manchester! And we have no reason to doubt his commitment at all (he has signed a deal till 2012 recently) I dont understand why we should think he is less commited for united cause than say Rooney (who also isint a Manchester lad and isint a natural United fan, his club was Everton) you dont think Ronney has any less ambitions than Ronaldo? Doesnt Rooney want to be best player in the world? And if being in England doesnt qualify you as best player in the world than would he leave?
Sorry but I feel commited to stand for our players till they are ours, till the last day.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:40
Grognard , hope u dont mind me saying this , this is the first time i m seeing u talk abt NonFootballing matters:)
. What he did was perfect . It should always be one person who should take the penalty and not two .By this he would be confident that the next penalty if it comes especially in a big match like Liverpool , he should have 99%confidence
A lot of people around the world are damn frustrated abt him taking the penalty rather than the dive
that he will score. Remember Nistelrooy and his miss against arsenal and for that matter Beckham in the internationals … Tevez Rooney and Ronaldo maybe close friends but they are professionals . They would be least bothered abt one another if they are in internationals and that`s how it should be .
It is like how people read the Rooney-Ronaldo situation in the WC.By the way please dont take celebration into the equation for a match like Derby.
Him moving to Barca is complete nonsense.Why would he want to move to a team which has 3 world class wingers and strikers. Maybe Real , however i doubt that…
IN FACT WE SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY , in which he has played! (Sorry for the caps)
This is the first time he is tracking back , tackling and helping the defense and trying to cross more ….
Enough said !
Guys , who`s notorious level will take precedence in Pool match , will it be Jamie`s 5 fouls in the penalty box so far or one Ronaldo dive so far … I think this might indeed be the decision which might be the make or break !
December 11th, 2007 at 7:06
I have to bring up something that JB touched on, why is no one talking about Tevez’s frustration\selfishness in the fulham game when Ronaldo was on the double? There were 3 or 4 times when tevez had the ball and ran through the 18 yard box just to take a weak shot, when rooney and ronaldo where waiting with no one within meters. There was a beautiful pass by anderson that led Ronaldo and tevez came across the pitch to take it from him and put on another weak shot.
I think there is a lot to be read into with this ronaldo story, but i have to say it does bother me that even if we are stabbing in the dark with some of the scenarios, the story could be very true. I personally dont think that Ronaldo would like to leave right now though, if just because United seem like the strongest from top to bottom on winning the double, if not the treble. I think that trophies have to be in the picture for him to leave, because lets face it, he wont be the best at anything if they arent winning and we give him the best chance for him to do that. Also, it might be Rooneys team, but hes the engine that makes united go.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:05
JB; I’m hearing a lot of buzz from many different sources but I think they are all getting it from the Daily Mirror. After what happened with van Nistelrooy I get panicked at the first sign of tension or controversy. You make little of what happened during the penalty kick but I have to disagree a bit. I thought it was very poor sportsmanship and a real lack of camaraderie shown by Ronaldo. Fergie also coming out to basically drown the fire in the media also makes me feel there is something wrong and Fergie is aware of it but he wants to take care of it internally. If the game was 0-1, 1-0 or 2-1 I wouldn’t have a problem with the fact that Ronaldo is the designated PKer. But the score was 3-1 in the 90th minute. This was just a case of extreme selfishness.
Turning down a teammates chance for a hat trick in this scenario just doesn’t sit well with me and it appears it is bothering many or it wouldn’t be mentioned so much through the media and played down by Fergie. And we always have to be aware of the Spanish sides because they have plenty of money and they play an unfair game of tapping up that is hard to prove. The language and cultural advantage is always there for them to use along with money as a motivator to jump ship. I will be the first one to be elated if I’m proven wrong when next season starts and Ronaldo is here. Until then I will be on pins and needles. Just a gut instinct I have.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:17
JOS; Sorry to borrow a term from baseball but you are out in left field on this one. I for one love Ronaldo. Don’t go comparing him and his loyalties to Rooney. Rooney is English and Ronny isn’t. Two different cultures and two different ways of looking at things make them completely different animals that cannot be compared. I live in Canada. Although there is tabloid journalism here also, there isn’t any regarding sports. Therefore, I must be forgiven if I read something in the Guardian or Daily Mirror and wonder if it’s true.
I have no idea which papers write the truth in the UK and which ones are famous for the rubbish.
And the list of great players who have gone to teams that already had 3 or 4 great players playing the same position is large to say the least. Why would Ballack go to Chelsea, van Nistelrooy to Real, Shevchenko to Chelski, Henry to Barcelona, Toni and Klose to Bayern etc etc. It’s about money and the ego. They all believe they are better than the players already there. Certainly Ronaldo believes he is better than anyone at Barcelona. Runner up for EPOTY reinforces that in his mind. Footballers are very talented but most of them are not to bright. I for one would never go play for a team where I would have to fight hard to find playing time. I loved to win but I loved to play even more.
Ronaldo should be happy and he should be very content with Nani and Anderson also on the team. But if Barca is tapping up Ronny then it is conceivable that they are corrupting his mind. His body language on the field before goals and after goals is different from last season. There is an arrogance and look he is giving that says “I’m to great for this place and this league”. In the past I saw joy and a big smile on his face. Now I see him celebrate with an arrogant “Look at me I’m great and I told you” look. I for one don’t like it whether he is staying or leaving. He needs to be more supportive and giving to his teammates and not celebrate his own greatness too shamefully. I don’t mean look totally humble, just be more of a team player with and without the ball, on and off the pitch.
Cantona was arrogant as hell but he was giving and very supportive of his teammates n and off the pitch. I don’t see this in Ronny. Lets not forget what he did to Rooney in the World Cup. Yes it’s old news and we all would like to forget it but telling me he is incapable of betrayal and stupidity is being very naive. Sorry but that’s just the way I feel. He’s my second favorite player but he has disappointed me for a while now with the chi on his shoulder. The penalty incident and his return to diving is a clear message that something is wrong in his pretty little head. And I believe the problem stems from somewhere in the Catalans.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:32
@grognard - beg to disagree on ur posts on ronaldo leaving utd !! Barca has got more superstars with many talented youngsters waiting in the lines !! so do u think he can go and establish something whcih he doesnt get in united ?he is the heart of united..he knows that well !!! he will never ever get this kind of treatment anywhere else !!!
take their formation 4 - 3 - 3 ..for the front 3 they already have rodnho,messi,henry,etto,iniesta(at times),dossantos,bojan,gudjohnson….assuming rdinho will leave..
now coming to madrid case they have robben,robinho,snejder with rudd and raul as strikers !
will he leave now ? No..in future ? yes may be after henry,ruud,raul retires !
thats after 4-5 years !!!
December 11th, 2007 at 10:42
Grognard just so you know very few nespapers actually report the news over here, and even with the few that do, when transfer news is being reported it often is old news being reinvented to start a story, but I understand where you are coming from. but to tell you the truth I think its more logical to tackle the problems and start to panic once they arise; as of yet, the only reason we believe he will leave is because of his ego, and that will definitely become one of the main problems in Ronaldo’s relationship with Manchester United, I don’t think it has gotten out of hand yet. I do agree that him having a chip on his shoulder can be difficult to ignore, as I always hated when Henry had the same chip on his shoulder, but but to tell you the truth we will only find what this may lead to once things start going bad, then we will see if Ronaldo decideds to up and leave or he decides to try and lift the team, and I would like to think it’s the second one.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:49
thats ok grognard but i think still u havent answered my basic question:
what makes u believe rooney will stay n ronaldo will leave (in case the perception is that they cannot win EPOTY/WPOTY with man utd). I for one dont think Rooney is any less ambitious than ronaldo or messi or kaka or anyone else.
You have now raised some more questions! Excuse me but what did he do to rooney in WC? He was playing for Portugal not Man Utd, Rooney stamped on balls of one of his mates and he had rights to complain. the stupid english press made a molehill out of it (to hide incompetencies of their favorite sons Gerrard, Lampard and all). Since then Ronaldo has set up so many goals for Rooney last yr (this yr they havent played together much). There seems to be no problem between the two as far as i can see.
I think we had gotten too much used to wonderful footy we were playing last yr. This yr it has been a bit different, with so many new players coming, boss trying new systems (4-1-3-2, 4-1-2-3, 4-3-3 etc) instead of set 4-4-2 last year etc etc so its been a bit frustrating for players as well. All these are very young and learning and big stars already. So give them some time understand each other and grow. I have lost count of how many chances Ronaldo has set up and were missed by either Tevez/Giggs/Saha/Rooney! Isint that also frustrating? Right now Anderson seems worse than even Carrick going forward and taking shots (virtually no shots on goal so far in 6 months!!) when he was supposed to be Scholes replacement. but its his first season only. i think once he settles and OH comes back to his best then we’ll see a much more destructive United. and these attitude problms etc are just our imagination… too much tabloids we r reading these days! Take a break n chill out… watch Man Utd vs Roma again for a nice change
December 11th, 2007 at 11:03
Hello everybody… I’ve never posted here before, but I feel it is time form me to give an opinion on this whole „Ronaldo Issue“. Just to introduce myself: I was born in Chile, lived there until I was 20, studied in Spain for three years, worked some time in London and I am currently living in Germany. I have been a Manchester United fan for as long as I can rememeber and, although I have only been once to Old Trafford, I hardly miss one game a season.
I read a lot of news coming from Spain (spanish is my mother tongue so it makes it quite comfortable) and let me tell you something: everything written by AS, Sport, Marca, etc., etc., etc. is just plain bullshit. If you haven’t done it already. you should learn to ignoe it. Why are these news coming from Barcelona and not Madrid? The answer is very simple: Madrid are first in la Liga and Barcelona haven’t “clicked” as a team yet. Before Ronaldo signed his new contract all rumours came from Madrid, because they were not playing well and they were not happy with the manager.
As soon as Madrid start dropping positions (if that happens), AS will start writing about all the new players going there including Ronaldo, Barcelona will start playing good football and nobody in Catalunia will even think of Ronaldo. This circus created by the spanish media would not be a problem if people outsie Spain wouldn’t take it seriously. The problem is some of you guys actually believe it and the thing starts geting biger and biger.
Ronaldo is tracking back much more than he did last season, commited himself to the club signing a new contract, assisting more than in any other season, recently said he would only leave if the club tells him to go and that Manchester has become everything to him (never mind the goals he has already scored). There IS NO PROBLEM with Ronaldo. He IS our best player, he can oly get better and the fans would do good if they start singing Portugal and not Argentina once in a while.
About the penalty: Ronaldo IS the team designated penalty taker… end of it. If he has to take a penalty against Liverpool it will only do him good and that is a fact. Don’t forget he is top scorer of the league and with Drogba out for a couple of months, he has good chance of being there at the end of the season. So I could argue it was just as selfish from Tevez to ask him if he could take the shot.
We are one point behind Liverpool, have a great team, a great striking duo in Tevez and Rooney, future stars like Anderson and Nani, the best defence in the league and two of the best players in the world (Ronaldo and Rooney in that order). So lets focus on the good things and stop imagining things… Ronaldo will stay in Manchester for many more years (he will eventually leave, but not before 4-5 years at least).
P.D.: Sorry for my english
December 11th, 2007 at 11:04
The reason Rooney will not leave is because Manchester United is the best team he can play for in England, and its highly unlikely that he would ever move abroad, I’m sure most of you can agree with that? And I really don’t understand the big deal about anderson not taking enough shots, we’ve seen on a few occasions he’s a poor striker of the ball, so instead he plays the killer pass, I’m happy with that, there have been many great players who didn’t have a great shot, I don’t see it as a lack of ambition, more of a recognization of his weakness. And jos don’t try and act as if Rooney and Ronaldo are fine, although they can be team mates on the pitch, the fact that they almost certainly don’t get on with each other on a personal level could also help lead to Ronaldo leaving.
December 11th, 2007 at 11:44
well conor i didnt say rooney will leave for another club in england. The argument put by some gentlemen (and indeed most of brits believe in it) is that if u play in england, howsoever good u may be u wont win EPOTY/WPOTY! (e.g. Henry, Becks, Cantona etc) So that means u cannot be called best player on earth if u play in england. now all I am asking is does Rooney not want to be called the best player on earth? And if he has those sort of ambitions than wud he leave (for italy/spain) if he doesnt get recognised here with united? he is good enf to play for any team on earth that is for sure!!!
by the way i dont believe in this theory (that there is bias against england based players). I am just trying to objectively argue over best player debate and apparently ronaldo’s commitment is being questioned coz of that.
about anderson thing, well the vids on youtube etc show otherwise. he does pack a sucker punch with his left foot when he hits the ball. its just he has been curtailing his shooting instincts a bit (prob SAF asked him so to drill some defensive discipline in him first). I wont come to any conclusions on him here (till end of this season at least).
btw what makes u think theres something wrong between rooney/ron? do they have to sleep with each other to convince u everythings fine???
December 11th, 2007 at 12:34
He has ambition but since he’s English I think he’d be more loyal to us, and also he might want to break this apparent ‘anti-English bias’ with United, I am pretty confident he will never move to England or Spain. Oh right ok then maybe he is just holding back, we’ll have to wait and see. Yes, yes they do have to sleep with each other, multiple times, before I’m convinced…
December 11th, 2007 at 12:39
I love Ronaldo and would not want to see him leave OT. I also don’t think he’ll be leaving anytime soon. Perhaps in about 3-4 years time. I can forgive his selfishness, but we have to admit, he is selfish. Maybe we’re making a big deal about it because some people seem so intent of defending it.
As Grognard stated, “But the score was 3-1 in the 90th minute.” this, is I suppose what pissed most people off.
Regardless, he is still our best player and we can forgive him, I’m sure.
—
Why are eveybody so on about Anderson not scoring?
He’s trying to play it safe. Once he settles, he will. Confidence will grow, then we’ll see how good he really is.
For those who think Anderson has settled already, how would you feel if you had Hargo, Carrick, Scholes breathing down your neck for the same position? Also keeping in mind the ever dependable Fletcher, O’ Shea, Giggs? He REALLY don’t want to take risks and make mistakes.
I seriously doubt it is a matter of him not being able to shoot. If that were the case, SAF would not have earmarked him as Scholes’ replacement. With that in mind, I think perhaps SAF should start him out as 2nd striker against Roma.
—
Taehr, I also saw Welbeck for the academy. I think he is a really great prospect. He kinda looks like a Saha the way he plays (also #9).
December 11th, 2007 at 12:47
I have a feeling that Barca is earmarking Cesc as Ronaldinho’s (to Chelsea) replacement. (not a direct replacement, but a star replacement). Also have a suspicion that Wenger will be replacing Rijkaardt who will be repalacing Grant at Chelsea.
December 11th, 2007 at 19:40
Ian; Welcome aboard. Thanks for the voice of reason in all this. Your point and warning regarding the AS, Sport, Marca, articles was invaluable. Obviously the Guardian and the Daily Mirror borrow from these sources when they start spewing their versions. Everything you say about Ronaldo is true and it is important for everyone to remember that I am a huge Ronaldo fan. I would be gutted if he left my favorite team. With that said, nobody and I mean nobody will ever convince me that what he did to Tevez was correct. I don’t give a rats ass if he is the designated penalty kicker. The score was 3-1 in the 90th minute and Tevez was trying to get United’s first hat trick in a long time. Tevez was not being selfish for wanting to do something that is very rare in football. Ronaldo was selfish in thinking a cheap little penalty would add to his legend and his growing goal scoring record.
And as far as his increasing rate of assists, that has come because he has grown as a player and is more intelligent out on the pitch. Playing stupidly and selfishly will not make Fergie happy. After all, where has Nani gone? He seems like the forgotten man due to his selfish and very stupid style of play. Ronaldo still knows that as a winger or wide midfielder, his first role is to set up others. As for Nani, don’t get me wrong, he will play better and he has great potential but right now he is trying to hard to be Ronaldo, and lets face it, he isn’t.
Conor; Thank you for answering Jos’ question for me. I’ll add that Rooney may be from Scouserville but he loves life in Manchester and he has always stated that he does not fashion a move from North Eastern England. Rooney will never go play abroad. Not willingly that is. Take a good look back in history and you will see that very few English greats have ever left England to go play in Europe and very very few have ever succeeded. The most successful by far was Kevin Keegan at Hamburg back when the Bundesliga was the best league in the world. All he did then was play three seasons and win EPOTY twice. Rooney going to Europe is not even a concern. He lives for Manchester red and he likely will be named our next captain as Fergie will be keen on giving him a little more responsibility to elevate his performance and to nail down his loyalty and commitment.
To all of you who contributed to this debate, I say thanks. It made me feel better about the Barcelona angle being nothing more than Bullshit. Still, I am a bit concerned about my boy Ronny’s attitude and ego. Hopefully he will be told about it and he will learn to temper it a bit better, while using better judgment. No matter how great he is, he is not greater than the team and his first concern and love should not be goals and glory, but his teammates and the supporters who love him. That’s my final word on the subject. I HOPE!!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10
So the only reason why Rooney wud stay and not Ronaldo is coz he is English!!!
I dont understand how you can be so sure that he wont leave. Probably you guys dont understand my question. I will rephrase it for you. What I see is that you guys think ronaldo will leave coz at some stage he will see his ambition of being best player in the world is not being fulfilled by stayin with united (simply coz he is playing in eng and no eng based player can be regarded as best, howsoever good he is). If that is the case, my basic doubt is why then rooney is not susceptible to leave as he also quite clearly wants to be regarded as the best in the world. at one point he said he was happy with everton (once a blue always a blue thing… before joining us) so its not like if today he says he is happy here then thats valid for next 20 yrs as well! he is ambitious (thats why he left everton) and he might want to win things with others if he thinks that serves his ambitions better (just like he did with switching over to united)
Both Giggs and Keane, two of the most outstanding united players were foreigners (not british) and they stayed here practically all their life. giggs was constantly linked with so many clubs every yr but still he is playing here. same can happen with ronaldo. we have no reason to doubt his commitment till he leaves/hands in a transfer request or is booted out. I dont understand how u can call urselves fans if u doubt ur own players so much! the guy went thru the worst phase of his life but still worked his socks off to win us the premiership and lots of respect. if this is the payback for all those efforts now, i dont know how he wud react if he cud read all this junk we r writing/imagining about him.
December 12th, 2007 at 13:54
[jos]
Ryan Giggs is Welsh which means ‘Wales’ which means it is a part of Great Britain which means he is not foreign. Go brush up your Geography please! And although he was born in Wales he was raised in Salford. He is a Red through and through. Next time you talk about Ryan Giggs, please, a little fact checking would greatly help. It would lend more credibility to your arguments.
Keane is a foreigner, although the Irish usually do get well assimilated in UK and don’t have too much of cultural differences with the British as against those from mainland Europe.
And about your point regarding foreigners there is some validity to what people say about Rooney. How many English players in recent times have actually moved abroad? (However great they may be.) I can name a few for you — McManaman, Becks, Owen. Now how many Reds (and Englishmen) have moved abroad over the last 10-15 years during their peak?
There is far too much profile for the EPL these days to move elsewhere. Although that is besides the point. Rooney could not possibly win more with Everton - a move to United or a big four club was always going to happen.
Of course, he might move to another club in future, as we cannot say with certainty that he will stay at United for life, but that would seem unlikely.
About Ronaldo, he has made it known that he would like to play in Spain someday, unlike Rooney. As much as I would love him to stay at the club I know I should be prepared for that day.
December 12th, 2007 at 17:59
Well said Red Ranter.
December 12th, 2007 at 20:17
RR
well i’ve been a united fan long enf to know that giggsy is welsh (so not british really! and thats what I said. he is a foreigner in the sense he is not british. thats what was the case as well in early 90s when 3 foreigner rule was applicable in europe). Sir Alex is a proud scot and he doesnt consider himself brit at all (but scotland is part of gr britain as well…)
but i guess here we r just having some very stupid arguments… all i was pissed off at was certain ppl (grogy inculded) doubting ronaldos commitment to united just coz he is a foreigner!!! I have a problem with that… some fans here have branded brown as a traitor (for he is not signing a new contract) while conviniently forgetting his 10 yrs of service. cant understand really how it makes him a TRAITOR!!! some ‘fans’ can be so fickle really!
And guys we do have the example of Mark Hughes, a top man utd player ( ok he was welsh but brit enough for u), who left for barca (although then came back as well).
December 12th, 2007 at 20:23
But jos he is british, thats what RR said, Wales is in Britain. by the way, what a disgrace.
December 12th, 2007 at 20:29
JOS
Britain = Wales, England & Scotland
British Isles = Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland and N. Ireland
U.K = Wales, England, Scotland and N. Ireland
English = England
Ergo Giggs is British.
And while the United fans have my sympathy, anyone going out to Rome for a game with nothing riding on it needs their head examined.
December 12th, 2007 at 23:01
[jos]
Giggs is not English. But he’s British. I suppose English is the word you were looking for. And let me reiterate, Wales is in Britain hence the Welsh are British. So are the Scottish (and the English)
I know this is besides the argument, but I found it a little surprising that you weren’t aware of this fact before. And just to clear it up for real here’s a link that will help: CLICK
December 13th, 2007 at 7:21
JOS; Get used to the idea of foreigners wanting to leave. England is not their homeland and for most, they come here to advance their careers, make a ton of money and then leave for places more familiar or culturally more compatible. Ronaldo is not British. Surprise Surprise! Neither was van Nistelrooy, Cantona, Henry, Robben etc etc. They all ended up leaving well before they were expected to. Most of them forced their manager’s hand in to a transfer because they wanted to leave.
Ronaldo may be very happy right now (and then again maybe he isn’t) but the day will come when he will leave. Why? Because unlike Rooney, he is a foreigner who sees his future life in another place. For Latin speaking players, Spain and Italy are very attractive and seductive places to go. Imagine you going to work in Japan. It might be exciting for a time but eventually you will miss your own culture and the ease and relaxing feel you get from conversing with people of your own language. It is very unrealistic to expect any foreign footballer to lay down permanent roots in Britain. The few that do are very proficient and very secure with their ability to read, write and speak English. Also, situations such as marrying British gals and having kids born in England may also lead to this but it is rare.
Ronaldo will go eventually. If there is one thing I can predict along with death and taxes, it is the big Spanish clubs will come a calling and when they do, they morph in to seductive beautiful women with plenty of money and gifts to throw at kids like Ronaldo and Fabregas. These guys will not be in the Prem two or three years from now. You can count on it. The trappings of the Dark Side will be to hard to turn down.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:18
Hmmm I don’t know about that, I say they’ll stay here for 5 years and then leave. Or he could just leave after we win the Champions League, and been the best player in it, which both could easily happen this year.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:43
Best way to get these young lads to stay loyal to the club is get em hitched to a local brassy northern tart. David Dein tried it with Henry when he introduced him to that model Nicole Merry and it worked for a bit. Fergie needs to get some scrubber to get her teeth into Ronaldo and he’ll be forever stuck at old Trafford cos she won’t want to move to Madrid cos they aven’t got a Lewis’s.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:56
well first of all sorry for confusing brits with english. i m not brit/english so dont really know these nuances. for me brits/english were the same (people belonging to england). thanks for clearing this much.
and grognard my point was not ronaldo leaving/not leaving. I also know he will leave. What I was contesting was the idea that Ronaldo will leave simply coz his ambitions of being best player on earth are not going to be served if he plays for united (reason being no england based players get EPOTY/WPOTY… some kind of a conspiracy tehre). I am just arguing that if that is the case then Rooney can/will also leave as he also has same ambitions as ronaldo (being recognised as best player on earth and winning EPOTY/WPOTy etc)…
Moreover I am firmly behind my players till they wear that famous Red shirt. We cannot doubt their commitment to the club simply coz they are foreigners (there are millions of people these days who move to other countries, work there, settle there etc. Arent there lot of ppl who have come and settled down in canada who are not native canadese? To me you sound racist as you r doubting someone’s commitment because of this reason) again this doesnt mean i m saying that ronaldo will stay for life but you never know… i have a feeling he wud stay a bit longer here to create and leave a legacy at a great club like united. and if the Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez experiment is succesful who knows…
December 14th, 2007 at 9:16
Racist is judging someone because of their skin colour jos.