Dec 09
Reds Warm Up for Anfield, With Derby Win
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So as expected, United comfortably saw off Derby County on their way to a 4-1 win. Giggs opened the scoring, Tevez added two and Ronaldo capped it off at the death, converting a penalty.
To be honest, Derby would consider themselves a little fortunate, as they could have faced us on better days. Yesterday was a terrible, terrible day. It was pouring from the skies for the entire period of the match the pitch started off soggy and ended up like a swimming pool. A pass would involve kicking a stream of water along with the ball. At the end of the day, Derby County’s kit — which, by the way, appears to me as the best part of their side, with their minimalistic all-white look — was all muddied.
So, naturally, our passing and fluency were all missing for large periods of the game. It’s good to see that they did put four past them. Although, they could have scored more.
About the match, well, the goal came quite late in the first half when Ronaldo’s fierce shot could only be parried away by Bywater, before Giggs came on hand to slot it home. It was his 100th league goal for the club — an outstanding achievement and, as the manager said, there ought to have been a big deal made out of it. But soon afterwards, in the 45th minute, Tevez scored one off a free-kick from Ronaldo; He completely missed his first attempt, but recovered quickly enough to put it past the ‘keeper.
The second half saw us putting more pressure and, on the hour, Tevez burst into the area and drilled a shot into the left corner of the goal. Derby did pull one back but that was hardly a threatening situation. They would rejoice though, because it was their first ever away goal of their season.
The 90′ saw Ronaldo diving to win a penalty and subsequently convert it.
There were plenty of chances that went missing, although, we always do create so many against such teams. Rooney would wonder what he really did wrong to have found the post instead of the net. Giggsy’s volley hit the post too. And plenty such occasions were there.
In terms of performances, Tevez had a brilliant day, running all over the pitch — tracking back, winning balls, making good runs, and, of course, scoring two goals. Anderson was also excellent; he had some deft touches, some long range passing and tracked back. Giggs had a good game today, and hopefully it should shut his doubters for a few games. He will not play this way always, but he sure does give the ball away far less than Nani, who would certainly improve with time.
Hargreaves was ruled out earlier during a warm up with a calf injury but it was more precautionary.
One final issue that needs to be talked about would be regarding Ronaldo’s decision to take the penalty. There has been a lot made about his ‘selfishness’. I would fault him for not being gracious enough to give the chance to a fellow teammate who was on a hat-trick. But the selfish streak in Ronaldo is what galvanises the team. We saw how we played at the start of the season, where some pretty football and passing the ball around was gentle on the eye but never had the cutting edge and directness to create something. This is what Ronaldo brings in the side. The absence of a genuine poacher makes Ronaldo’s selfishness all the more important to the team. Let’s remember that he has become a much better judge of making the choice between scoring and creating. And while I still can’t accept his diving antics, I do accept him for showing desire to always be on the scoresheet. The hunger is what drives him on, and I am willing to accept him for it — even if it means situations like what happened yesterday.
Oh, and one final thing about Liverpool yesterday — HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fuckin’ scouse twats! There goes your title and hopefully, your Champions’ League too. Come on, Marseille!
Update: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the Gunners as well. Just one more point behind. Next week would be crucial.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Villarreal: Preview
- Liverpool v Manchester United: Preview
- FAYC – United v Derby County – Preview
- Portsmouth Preview
- Derby County v Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Match Reports
Opti (541)
Stephen (484)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
A more general view on this supposed attitude problem with Ronaldo – what a pile of bullshit IMO. On the penalty, he is the designated penalty taker, if he doesn’t want to hand it over he shouldn’t have to. The one similar incident that rings to mind is Beckham giving the ball to Forlan to break his duck a few years ago. Interestingly Beckham was rumoured to have got a bollocking from Keane in training the next day for a lack of professionalism. In addition Tevez can hardly complain after ignoring Ronaldo time and again against Fulham. Finally two of the clubs senior players and manager have come out in support of Ronaldo’s decision. What exactly is the issue, greed or Ronaldo not bending over to convenience Tevez?
Cocxxy I can’t think of the exact game, but RVN previously took a penalty when Rooney was on a hat trick.
I have also seen his celebrations criticised. All the celebrations at the weekend were fairly low key. He was pumping his fist at the first goal and was in the pile of players congratulating Tevez for the second. Although there was no sign of him for the third it is interesting to note for example that Tevez didn’t even raise an arm in celebration for the first. The celebrations were probably mute because of the standard of the opposition and the weather, nothing else.
Ronaldo moving to Spain, I don’t view as a betrayal (although that may depend on the circumstances). He has made it clear from the beginning that at some point he wants to play for a big Spanish club. Personally I’m already resigned to the fact that he will leave the club before the end of his career, but that is a fair few years away yet and none of this conjecture has convinced me that this is an imminent danger.
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I knew it would be me that brought JB out of hiding. And as I thought he would be the one on the grassy knoll taking a shot at my theory. Good to see you back JB. I’m glad I stirred up the old circulation a bit.
I happen to agree with you and I agree that what I brought up was nothing more than conjecture and a bit of paranoia. All this crap coming out of Spain is making me wonder if they (being Barcelona) are no tapping up Ronaldo? Probably not, but you never know. Certainly Sporting are pissed with Queiroz for the very same stuff. Add to this the rumors of Ronaldinho wanting Man U instead of Chelski and a creative but paranoid mind like mine can come up with many scenarios. Nevertheless, nothing to lose sleep over.
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Grognard: My absence was due to work commitments in Dublin for the past couple of weeks, leaving me with minimal time on the internet – which had to be spent on far more important things (like expense claims
) You were nearly beaten to the punch as I was going to reply to some of the others yesterday about Ronaldo but I couldn’t be bothered typing all of that out when I got home.
Are you hearing any other rumours from Spain, because I’ve seen nothing in the usual media sources about Barcelona and Ronaldo. One link from Tribalfootball does not a story make. None of the usual sources for Spanish football matters that I would trust have mentioned anything about a bid (or even an interest) for Ronaldo.
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i’m sorry grognard, i have to take JB’s side on this one!!!! i dont think we shuld be too worried about whats going on behind the scenes because we dont know all the facts…. and we also know that ronaldo WILL leave (regardless of his relationship with other players or the management is gonna have any effect on that)……
JB, i will say one thing though…. if i were u, i wuldnt pay too much attention to what laporta says…. the barca and real presidents love to run their mouth and keep the fans in the dark!! i did read somewhere that ronaldinho’s brother said that Milan and Barca discussed the player when the club representitived met during the G-14 conference (i know i know, thats not a very reliable source either!!)
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grogy dear
we dont have to seriously take tabloids esp the likes of tribalfooty, daily mail/mirror, and all of spainish media!they are all but piles of rubbish!!! Both Barca & Real are notorious for promising lots of high-profile signings (esp the presidential hopefuls do that a lot) and their media spews all sorts of nonsense towards that. if we were to go by them, then Fabregas, kaka would already be playing for Barca/Real!!! Not to mention the likes of lampard, gerrard, ronaldo etc.
So long Sir Alex is there, I dont see Ronaldo leaving Manchester! And we have no reason to doubt his commitment at all (he has signed a deal till 2012 recently) I dont understand why we should think he is less commited for united cause than say Rooney (who also isint a Manchester lad and isint a natural United fan, his club was Everton) you dont think Ronney has any less ambitions than Ronaldo? Doesnt Rooney want to be best player in the world? And if being in England doesnt qualify you as best player in the world than would he leave?
Sorry but I feel commited to stand for our players till they are ours, till the last day.
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Grognard , hope u dont mind me saying this , this is the first time i m seeing u talk abt NonFootballing matters:)
. What he did was perfect . It should always be one person who should take the penalty and not two .By this he would be confident that the next penalty if it comes especially in a big match like Liverpool , he should have 99%confidence
A lot of people around the world are damn frustrated abt him taking the penalty rather than the dive
that he will score. Remember Nistelrooy and his miss against arsenal and for that matter Beckham in the internationals … Tevez Rooney and Ronaldo maybe close friends but they are professionals . They would be least bothered abt one another if they are in internationals and that`s how it should be .
It is like how people read the Rooney-Ronaldo situation in the WC.By the way please dont take celebration into the equation for a match like Derby.
Him moving to Barca is complete nonsense.Why would he want to move to a team which has 3 world class wingers and strikers. Maybe Real , however i doubt that…
IN FACT WE SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY , in which he has played! (Sorry for the caps)
This is the first time he is tracking back , tackling and helping the defense and trying to cross more ….
Enough said !
Guys , who`s notorious level will take precedence in Pool match , will it be Jamie`s 5 fouls in the penalty box so far or one Ronaldo dive so far … I think this might indeed be the decision which might be the make or break !
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I have to bring up something that JB touched on, why is no one talking about Tevez’s frustration\selfishness in the fulham game when Ronaldo was on the double? There were 3 or 4 times when tevez had the ball and ran through the 18 yard box just to take a weak shot, when rooney and ronaldo where waiting with no one within meters. There was a beautiful pass by anderson that led Ronaldo and tevez came across the pitch to take it from him and put on another weak shot.
I think there is a lot to be read into with this ronaldo story, but i have to say it does bother me that even if we are stabbing in the dark with some of the scenarios, the story could be very true. I personally dont think that Ronaldo would like to leave right now though, if just because United seem like the strongest from top to bottom on winning the double, if not the treble. I think that trophies have to be in the picture for him to leave, because lets face it, he wont be the best at anything if they arent winning and we give him the best chance for him to do that. Also, it might be Rooneys team, but hes the engine that makes united go.
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JB; I’m hearing a lot of buzz from many different sources but I think they are all getting it from the Daily Mirror. After what happened with van Nistelrooy I get panicked at the first sign of tension or controversy. You make little of what happened during the penalty kick but I have to disagree a bit. I thought it was very poor sportsmanship and a real lack of camaraderie shown by Ronaldo. Fergie also coming out to basically drown the fire in the media also makes me feel there is something wrong and Fergie is aware of it but he wants to take care of it internally. If the game was 0-1, 1-0 or 2-1 I wouldn’t have a problem with the fact that Ronaldo is the designated PKer. But the score was 3-1 in the 90th minute. This was just a case of extreme selfishness.
Turning down a teammates chance for a hat trick in this scenario just doesn’t sit well with me and it appears it is bothering many or it wouldn’t be mentioned so much through the media and played down by Fergie. And we always have to be aware of the Spanish sides because they have plenty of money and they play an unfair game of tapping up that is hard to prove. The language and cultural advantage is always there for them to use along with money as a motivator to jump ship. I will be the first one to be elated if I’m proven wrong when next season starts and Ronaldo is here. Until then I will be on pins and needles. Just a gut instinct I have.
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JOS; Sorry to borrow a term from baseball but you are out in left field on this one. I for one love Ronaldo. Don’t go comparing him and his loyalties to Rooney. Rooney is English and Ronny isn’t. Two different cultures and two different ways of looking at things make them completely different animals that cannot be compared. I live in Canada. Although there is tabloid journalism here also, there isn’t any regarding sports. Therefore, I must be forgiven if I read something in the Guardian or Daily Mirror and wonder if it’s true.
I have no idea which papers write the truth in the UK and which ones are famous for the rubbish.
And the list of great players who have gone to teams that already had 3 or 4 great players playing the same position is large to say the least. Why would Ballack go to Chelsea, van Nistelrooy to Real, Shevchenko to Chelski, Henry to Barcelona, Toni and Klose to Bayern etc etc. It’s about money and the ego. They all believe they are better than the players already there. Certainly Ronaldo believes he is better than anyone at Barcelona. Runner up for EPOTY reinforces that in his mind. Footballers are very talented but most of them are not to bright. I for one would never go play for a team where I would have to fight hard to find playing time. I loved to win but I loved to play even more.
Ronaldo should be happy and he should be very content with Nani and Anderson also on the team. But if Barca is tapping up Ronny then it is conceivable that they are corrupting his mind. His body language on the field before goals and after goals is different from last season. There is an arrogance and look he is giving that says “I’m to great for this place and this league”. In the past I saw joy and a big smile on his face. Now I see him celebrate with an arrogant “Look at me I’m great and I told you” look. I for one don’t like it whether he is staying or leaving. He needs to be more supportive and giving to his teammates and not celebrate his own greatness too shamefully. I don’t mean look totally humble, just be more of a team player with and without the ball, on and off the pitch.
Cantona was arrogant as hell but he was giving and very supportive of his teammates n and off the pitch. I don’t see this in Ronny. Lets not forget what he did to Rooney in the World Cup. Yes it’s old news and we all would like to forget it but telling me he is incapable of betrayal and stupidity is being very naive. Sorry but that’s just the way I feel. He’s my second favorite player but he has disappointed me for a while now with the chi on his shoulder. The penalty incident and his return to diving is a clear message that something is wrong in his pretty little head. And I believe the problem stems from somewhere in the Catalans.
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@grognard – beg to disagree on ur posts on ronaldo leaving utd !! Barca has got more superstars with many talented youngsters waiting in the lines !! so do u think he can go and establish something whcih he doesnt get in united ?he is the heart of united..he knows that well !!! he will never ever get this kind of treatment anywhere else !!!
take their formation 4 – 3 – 3 ..for the front 3 they already have rodnho,messi,henry,etto,iniesta(at times),dossantos,bojan,gudjohnson….assuming rdinho will leave..
now coming to madrid case they have robben,robinho,snejder with rudd and raul as strikers !
will he leave now ? No..in future ? yes may be after henry,ruud,raul retires !
thats after 4-5 years !!!
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Grognard just so you know very few nespapers actually report the news over here, and even with the few that do, when transfer news is being reported it often is old news being reinvented to start a story, but I understand where you are coming from. but to tell you the truth I think its more logical to tackle the problems and start to panic once they arise; as of yet, the only reason we believe he will leave is because of his ego, and that will definitely become one of the main problems in Ronaldo’s relationship with Manchester United, I don’t think it has gotten out of hand yet. I do agree that him having a chip on his shoulder can be difficult to ignore, as I always hated when Henry had the same chip on his shoulder, but but to tell you the truth we will only find what this may lead to once things start going bad, then we will see if Ronaldo decideds to up and leave or he decides to try and lift the team, and I would like to think it’s the second one.
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thats ok grognard but i think still u havent answered my basic question:
what makes u believe rooney will stay n ronaldo will leave (in case the perception is that they cannot win EPOTY/WPOTY with man utd). I for one dont think Rooney is any less ambitious than ronaldo or messi or kaka or anyone else.
You have now raised some more questions! Excuse me but what did he do to rooney in WC? He was playing for Portugal not Man Utd, Rooney stamped on balls of one of his mates and he had rights to complain. the stupid english press made a molehill out of it (to hide incompetencies of their favorite sons Gerrard, Lampard and all). Since then Ronaldo has set up so many goals for Rooney last yr (this yr they havent played together much). There seems to be no problem between the two as far as i can see.
I think we had gotten too much used to wonderful footy we were playing last yr. This yr it has been a bit different, with so many new players coming, boss trying new systems (4-1-3-2, 4-1-2-3, 4-3-3 etc) instead of set 4-4-2 last year etc etc so its been a bit frustrating for players as well. All these are very young and learning and big stars already. So give them some time understand each other and grow. I have lost count of how many chances Ronaldo has set up and were missed by either Tevez/Giggs/Saha/Rooney! Isint that also frustrating? Right now Anderson seems worse than even Carrick going forward and taking shots (virtually no shots on goal so far in 6 months!!) when he was supposed to be Scholes replacement. but its his first season only. i think once he settles and OH comes back to his best then we’ll see a much more destructive United. and these attitude problms etc are just our imagination… too much tabloids we r reading these days! Take a break n chill out… watch Man Utd vs Roma again for a nice change
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Hello everybody… I’ve never posted here before, but I feel it is time form me to give an opinion on this whole „Ronaldo Issue“. Just to introduce myself: I was born in Chile, lived there until I was 20, studied in Spain for three years, worked some time in London and I am currently living in Germany. I have been a Manchester United fan for as long as I can rememeber and, although I have only been once to Old Trafford, I hardly miss one game a season.
I read a lot of news coming from Spain (spanish is my mother tongue so it makes it quite comfortable) and let me tell you something: everything written by AS, Sport, Marca, etc., etc., etc. is just plain bullshit. If you haven’t done it already. you should learn to ignoe it. Why are these news coming from Barcelona and not Madrid? The answer is very simple: Madrid are first in la Liga and Barcelona haven’t “clicked†as a team yet. Before Ronaldo signed his new contract all rumours came from Madrid, because they were not playing well and they were not happy with the manager.
As soon as Madrid start dropping positions (if that happens), AS will start writing about all the new players going there including Ronaldo, Barcelona will start playing good football and nobody in Catalunia will even think of Ronaldo. This circus created by the spanish media would not be a problem if people outsie Spain wouldn’t take it seriously. The problem is some of you guys actually believe it and the thing starts geting biger and biger.
Ronaldo is tracking back much more than he did last season, commited himself to the club signing a new contract, assisting more than in any other season, recently said he would only leave if the club tells him to go and that Manchester has become everything to him (never mind the goals he has already scored). There IS NO PROBLEM with Ronaldo. He IS our best player, he can oly get better and the fans would do good if they start singing Portugal and not Argentina once in a while.
About the penalty: Ronaldo IS the team designated penalty taker… end of it. If he has to take a penalty against Liverpool it will only do him good and that is a fact. Don’t forget he is top scorer of the league and with Drogba out for a couple of months, he has good chance of being there at the end of the season. So I could argue it was just as selfish from Tevez to ask him if he could take the shot.
We are one point behind Liverpool, have a great team, a great striking duo in Tevez and Rooney, future stars like Anderson and Nani, the best defence in the league and two of the best players in the world (Ronaldo and Rooney in that order). So lets focus on the good things and stop imagining things… Ronaldo will stay in Manchester for many more years (he will eventually leave, but not before 4-5 years at least).
P.D.: Sorry for my english
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The reason Rooney will not leave is because Manchester United is the best team he can play for in England, and its highly unlikely that he would ever move abroad, I’m sure most of you can agree with that? And I really don’t understand the big deal about anderson not taking enough shots, we’ve seen on a few occasions he’s a poor striker of the ball, so instead he plays the killer pass, I’m happy with that, there have been many great players who didn’t have a great shot, I don’t see it as a lack of ambition, more of a recognization of his weakness. And jos don’t try and act as if Rooney and Ronaldo are fine, although they can be team mates on the pitch, the fact that they almost certainly don’t get on with each other on a personal level could also help lead to Ronaldo leaving.
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well conor i didnt say rooney will leave for another club in england. The argument put by some gentlemen (and indeed most of brits believe in it) is that if u play in england, howsoever good u may be u wont win EPOTY/WPOTY! (e.g. Henry, Becks, Cantona etc) So that means u cannot be called best player on earth if u play in england. now all I am asking is does Rooney not want to be called the best player on earth? And if he has those sort of ambitions than wud he leave (for italy/spain) if he doesnt get recognised here with united? he is good enf to play for any team on earth that is for sure!!!
by the way i dont believe in this theory (that there is bias against england based players). I am just trying to objectively argue over best player debate and apparently ronaldo’s commitment is being questioned coz of that.
about anderson thing, well the vids on youtube etc show otherwise. he does pack a sucker punch with his left foot when he hits the ball. its just he has been curtailing his shooting instincts a bit (prob SAF asked him so to drill some defensive discipline in him first). I wont come to any conclusions on him here (till end of this season at least).
btw what makes u think theres something wrong between rooney/ron? do they have to sleep with each other to convince u everythings fine???
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He has ambition but since he’s English I think he’d be more loyal to us, and also he might want to break this apparent ‘anti-English bias’ with United, I am pretty confident he will never move to England or Spain. Oh right ok then maybe he is just holding back, we’ll have to wait and see. Yes, yes they do have to sleep with each other, multiple times, before I’m convinced…
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I love Ronaldo and would not want to see him leave OT. I also don’t think he’ll be leaving anytime soon. Perhaps in about 3-4 years time. I can forgive his selfishness, but we have to admit, he is selfish. Maybe we’re making a big deal about it because some people seem so intent of defending it.
As Grognard stated, “But the score was 3-1 in the 90th minute.” this, is I suppose what pissed most people off.
Regardless, he is still our best player and we can forgive him, I’m sure.
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Why are eveybody so on about Anderson not scoring?
He’s trying to play it safe. Once he settles, he will. Confidence will grow, then we’ll see how good he really is.
For those who think Anderson has settled already, how would you feel if you had Hargo, Carrick, Scholes breathing down your neck for the same position? Also keeping in mind the ever dependable Fletcher, O’ Shea, Giggs? He REALLY don’t want to take risks and make mistakes.
I seriously doubt it is a matter of him not being able to shoot. If that were the case, SAF would not have earmarked him as Scholes’ replacement. With that in mind, I think perhaps SAF should start him out as 2nd striker against Roma.
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Taehr, I also saw Welbeck for the academy. I think he is a really great prospect. He kinda looks like a Saha the way he plays (also #9).
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I have a feeling that Barca is earmarking Cesc as Ronaldinho’s (to Chelsea) replacement. (not a direct replacement, but a star replacement). Also have a suspicion that Wenger will be replacing Rijkaardt who will be repalacing Grant at Chelsea.
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Ian; Welcome aboard. Thanks for the voice of reason in all this. Your point and warning regarding the AS, Sport, Marca, articles was invaluable. Obviously the Guardian and the Daily Mirror borrow from these sources when they start spewing their versions. Everything you say about Ronaldo is true and it is important for everyone to remember that I am a huge Ronaldo fan. I would be gutted if he left my favorite team. With that said, nobody and I mean nobody will ever convince me that what he did to Tevez was correct. I don’t give a rats ass if he is the designated penalty kicker. The score was 3-1 in the 90th minute and Tevez was trying to get United’s first hat trick in a long time. Tevez was not being selfish for wanting to do something that is very rare in football. Ronaldo was selfish in thinking a cheap little penalty would add to his legend and his growing goal scoring record.
And as far as his increasing rate of assists, that has come because he has grown as a player and is more intelligent out on the pitch. Playing stupidly and selfishly will not make Fergie happy. After all, where has Nani gone? He seems like the forgotten man due to his selfish and very stupid style of play. Ronaldo still knows that as a winger or wide midfielder, his first role is to set up others. As for Nani, don’t get me wrong, he will play better and he has great potential but right now he is trying to hard to be Ronaldo, and lets face it, he isn’t.
Conor; Thank you for answering Jos’ question for me. I’ll add that Rooney may be from Scouserville but he loves life in Manchester and he has always stated that he does not fashion a move from North Eastern England. Rooney will never go play abroad. Not willingly that is. Take a good look back in history and you will see that very few English greats have ever left England to go play in Europe and very very few have ever succeeded. The most successful by far was Kevin Keegan at Hamburg back when the Bundesliga was the best league in the world. All he did then was play three seasons and win EPOTY twice. Rooney going to Europe is not even a concern. He lives for Manchester red and he likely will be named our next captain as Fergie will be keen on giving him a little more responsibility to elevate his performance and to nail down his loyalty and commitment.
To all of you who contributed to this debate, I say thanks. It made me feel better about the Barcelona angle being nothing more than Bullshit. Still, I am a bit concerned about my boy Ronny’s attitude and ego. Hopefully he will be told about it and he will learn to temper it a bit better, while using better judgment. No matter how great he is, he is not greater than the team and his first concern and love should not be goals and glory, but his teammates and the supporters who love him. That’s my final word on the subject. I HOPE!!
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So the only reason why Rooney wud stay and not Ronaldo is coz he is English!!!
I dont understand how you can be so sure that he wont leave. Probably you guys dont understand my question. I will rephrase it for you. What I see is that you guys think ronaldo will leave coz at some stage he will see his ambition of being best player in the world is not being fulfilled by stayin with united (simply coz he is playing in eng and no eng based player can be regarded as best, howsoever good he is). If that is the case, my basic doubt is why then rooney is not susceptible to leave as he also quite clearly wants to be regarded as the best in the world. at one point he said he was happy with everton (once a blue always a blue thing… before joining us) so its not like if today he says he is happy here then thats valid for next 20 yrs as well! he is ambitious (thats why he left everton) and he might want to win things with others if he thinks that serves his ambitions better (just like he did with switching over to united)
Both Giggs and Keane, two of the most outstanding united players were foreigners (not british) and they stayed here practically all their life. giggs was constantly linked with so many clubs every yr but still he is playing here. same can happen with ronaldo. we have no reason to doubt his commitment till he leaves/hands in a transfer request or is booted out. I dont understand how u can call urselves fans if u doubt ur own players so much! the guy went thru the worst phase of his life but still worked his socks off to win us the premiership and lots of respect. if this is the payback for all those efforts now, i dont know how he wud react if he cud read all this junk we r writing/imagining about him.
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[jos]
Ryan Giggs is Welsh which means ‘Wales’ which means it is a part of Great Britain which means he is not foreign. Go brush up your Geography please! And although he was born in Wales he was raised in Salford. He is a Red through and through. Next time you talk about Ryan Giggs, please, a little fact checking would greatly help. It would lend more credibility to your arguments.
Keane is a foreigner, although the Irish usually do get well assimilated in UK and don’t have too much of cultural differences with the British as against those from mainland Europe.
And about your point regarding foreigners there is some validity to what people say about Rooney. How many English players in recent times have actually moved abroad? (However great they may be.) I can name a few for you — McManaman, Becks, Owen. Now how many Reds (and Englishmen) have moved abroad over the last 10-15 years during their peak?
There is far too much profile for the EPL these days to move elsewhere. Although that is besides the point. Rooney could not possibly win more with Everton – a move to United or a big four club was always going to happen.
Of course, he might move to another club in future, as we cannot say with certainty that he will stay at United for life, but that would seem unlikely.
About Ronaldo, he has made it known that he would like to play in Spain someday, unlike Rooney. As much as I would love him to stay at the club I know I should be prepared for that day.
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Well said Red Ranter.
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RR
well i’ve been a united fan long enf to know that giggsy is welsh (so not british really! and thats what I said. he is a foreigner in the sense he is not british. thats what was the case as well in early 90s when 3 foreigner rule was applicable in europe). Sir Alex is a proud scot and he doesnt consider himself brit at all (but scotland is part of gr britain as well…)
but i guess here we r just having some very stupid arguments… all i was pissed off at was certain ppl (grogy inculded) doubting ronaldos commitment to united just coz he is a foreigner!!! I have a problem with that… some fans here have branded brown as a traitor (for he is not signing a new contract) while conviniently forgetting his 10 yrs of service. cant understand really how it makes him a TRAITOR!!! some ‘fans’ can be so fickle really!
And guys we do have the example of Mark Hughes, a top man utd player ( ok he was welsh but brit enough for u), who left for barca (although then came back as well).
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But jos he is british, thats what RR said, Wales is in Britain. by the way, what a disgrace.
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JOS
Britain = Wales, England & Scotland
British Isles = Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland and N. Ireland
U.K = Wales, England, Scotland and N. Ireland
English = England
Ergo Giggs is British.
And while the United fans have my sympathy, anyone going out to Rome for a game with nothing riding on it needs their head examined.
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[jos]
Giggs is not English. But he’s British. I suppose English is the word you were looking for. And let me reiterate, Wales is in Britain hence the Welsh are British. So are the Scottish (and the English)
I know this is besides the argument, but I found it a little surprising that you weren’t aware of this fact before. And just to clear it up for real here’s a link that will help: CLICK
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JOS; Get used to the idea of foreigners wanting to leave. England is not their homeland and for most, they come here to advance their careers, make a ton of money and then leave for places more familiar or culturally more compatible. Ronaldo is not British. Surprise Surprise! Neither was van Nistelrooy, Cantona, Henry, Robben etc etc. They all ended up leaving well before they were expected to. Most of them forced their manager’s hand in to a transfer because they wanted to leave.
Ronaldo may be very happy right now (and then again maybe he isn’t) but the day will come when he will leave. Why? Because unlike Rooney, he is a foreigner who sees his future life in another place. For Latin speaking players, Spain and Italy are very attractive and seductive places to go. Imagine you going to work in Japan. It might be exciting for a time but eventually you will miss your own culture and the ease and relaxing feel you get from conversing with people of your own language. It is very unrealistic to expect any foreign footballer to lay down permanent roots in Britain. The few that do are very proficient and very secure with their ability to read, write and speak English. Also, situations such as marrying British gals and having kids born in England may also lead to this but it is rare.
Ronaldo will go eventually. If there is one thing I can predict along with death and taxes, it is the big Spanish clubs will come a calling and when they do, they morph in to seductive beautiful women with plenty of money and gifts to throw at kids like Ronaldo and Fabregas. These guys will not be in the Prem two or three years from now. You can count on it. The trappings of the Dark Side will be to hard to turn down.
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Hmmm I don’t know about that, I say they’ll stay here for 5 years and then leave. Or he could just leave after we win the Champions League, and been the best player in it, which both could easily happen this year.
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Best way to get these young lads to stay loyal to the club is get em hitched to a local brassy northern tart. David Dein tried it with Henry when he introduced him to that model Nicole Merry and it worked for a bit. Fergie needs to get some scrubber to get her teeth into Ronaldo and he’ll be forever stuck at old Trafford cos she won’t want to move to Madrid cos they aven’t got a Lewis’s.
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well first of all sorry for confusing brits with english. i m not brit/english so dont really know these nuances. for me brits/english were the same (people belonging to england). thanks for clearing this much.
and grognard my point was not ronaldo leaving/not leaving. I also know he will leave. What I was contesting was the idea that Ronaldo will leave simply coz his ambitions of being best player on earth are not going to be served if he plays for united (reason being no england based players get EPOTY/WPOTY… some kind of a conspiracy tehre). I am just arguing that if that is the case then Rooney can/will also leave as he also has same ambitions as ronaldo (being recognised as best player on earth and winning EPOTY/WPOTy etc)…
Moreover I am firmly behind my players till they wear that famous Red shirt. We cannot doubt their commitment to the club simply coz they are foreigners (there are millions of people these days who move to other countries, work there, settle there etc. Arent there lot of ppl who have come and settled down in canada who are not native canadese? To me you sound racist as you r doubting someone’s commitment because of this reason) again this doesnt mean i m saying that ronaldo will stay for life but you never know… i have a feeling he wud stay a bit longer here to create and leave a legacy at a great club like united. and if the Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez experiment is succesful who knows…
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Racist is judging someone because of their skin colour jos.
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