Dec 11
Roma vs Man Utd: Preview
There may not be enough time for me to do a Roma preview tomorrow so I’d rather do it today.
For the discerning ones, who are curious to know the reason behind my reduced involvement in the affairs of this blog, let me assure you that things will be back to normal for sure. The first two weeks of December was always going to be an exceptionally busy period in my life and this mad couple of weeks would end on the 15th for me; after which things will return to the usual. That I could find time to post in spite of all this was a miracle, if you ask me. (Thanks, of course, to Ahmed who chipped in.)
Anyway, on to the preview…
Francesco Totti was on about how winning against us would be “prestigious”. Well, if beating a side that will certainly field the likes of Dong, Eagles et al gives you a sense of prestige then fair enough. Knock yourself out. Let that make you finally get over the 7-1 defeat — which I doubt you’ll ever get over.
Regarding team composition, Fergie is likely to field an entirely different side to that fielded against Derby. So Nani would start, and so would Eagles, on the wings. While Dong and Saha might start upfront. Fletcher and Carrick could play in central midfield. While the back four would consist of Pique, Evans, Simpson and O’Shea — with Tommy K in goal.
Well, that would be my thoughts on the composition. However, going by reports on the official site, Rooney would be captain. The squad is very young too:
Kuszczak, Heaton, Brown, Eckersley, O’Shea, Pique, Evans, Simpson, Lee, Chester, Cleverley, Hewson, Nani, Eagles, Carrick, Fletcher, Dong, Brandy, Saha, Rooney.
Meanwhile in other news, Park is to return sooner than expected. This is great news, as we would need the energy of players like him to get through December.
Back to the game then, there is some useful information for those fans travelling to Rome on the official site. Especially important, if one would remember the caning many fans received at the hands of the ultras and policemen. This article also links to a pdf document that should be very useful for the travelling support. Click here.
Anyway, back to predictions… I have a feeling we would lose this but I really can’t be too arsed to be honest. All I hope is for the likes of Rooney to come out unscathed. I say, 2-1 to Roma. Let them shove their prestige up their arses. I’ve got an exam to get to.
Later.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Rooney Out For A Month
- Derby County v Man Utd: Preview
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Roma v Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Game Preview
December 11th, 2007 at 13:49
I think it will be more of a 4-0 thrashing we will get to be honest with you.
Hopefully beating our second string side will help them get over the 7-1 hammering they received on that “prestigious” night at Old Trafford!
Saha has interestingly said he expects some racial abuse at Roma.
But then again if it does happen don’t expect UEFA to do anythin about it. As fining a club £10k when they have players earning up to £100k a week isn’t gonna make themtake any note.
Oh well we shall see tomorrow.
Hopefully Liverpool go through tonight or get battered by Marseille. Either result will do for me!
December 11th, 2007 at 13:50
I’m desperately hoping to see Saha and Rooney up front together. I can’t remember hte last time I saw them starting in a 442, and I still think they’re a lethal pair. Eagles has actually been pretty good in the matches I’ve seen him in, unlike Dong, who I’ve only ever seen suck terribly. Nani will lose the ball 47.23 times…in the first half, but will still setup our only goal as we lose 4-1.
And sorry, but do we really have a player called ‘Cleverley’? That’s brilliant!
December 11th, 2007 at 15:07
Dong?oh no! were better off starting this brandy guy.i think its a bad idea to include rooney
December 11th, 2007 at 16:41
All these speculations and rumors goin round the country bout Ronaldinho coming to us mates (dem fucking press mates gat to make some penny) will turn out not to be true as 1. The gaffer would not tolerate tem lad’s lifestyle 2. The team dosen’t need a creative mid as Ronny, Anderson are all doing a good job 3.The team needs a fucking striker 4. BARCA WOULD NOT SELL.
So all u mates that r wishin should come down cloud nine and back to reality. Down here the word round lads here is 4 SAF to bring in that Berbatov lad. U lads gat to understand what that lad would fucking bring to our team ( has the touch and elegance of Cantona)
December 11th, 2007 at 16:45
But he’s not a goalscorer, he’s not going to start and he’s not an impact substitute. I’m sorry but I think this is just a dream which won’t come true Jameso.
December 11th, 2007 at 16:55
Conor
Thats where u gat it all wrong. SAF is a true fan of Berbatov. Still regrets not signing d lad 4rm leverkusn. Rem him puttin a bid of 22m over thesummer 4 him. The gaffer knows he would bring a different dimension to our team. As i have said b4, u have to have four strikers, & fergie wants dt no (a pity dt lad solsjk had to retire)
Word up is the gaffer is goin to bring in a striker next. So who do you think should fit the fold. Cos berbatov
December 11th, 2007 at 17:25
i feel that we should buy 3 players in the january transfer market
a right back to replace brown.a left back to ease the load off evra and another striker.
December 11th, 2007 at 17:35
well i think its gonna be 3-1 to roma . i feel man utd fans will again be thrashed by roma police as they were last time. guess the difference this time will be that old boy fergie and some of his players like ronaldo(if he plays) will be thrashed also. really ive never seen dogs being thrashed as hard as man utd fans the last time they went to rome ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
December 11th, 2007 at 17:51
if we can manage a draw aginst them with that squad ill be proud. tartig 11:
PIG
simmo peeks evans eckrsly
eagles 2 young CM nani
Rooney brandy but i would have preferd campbell
December 11th, 2007 at 18:01
So, the Brown scalping begun already eh? Sad.
December 11th, 2007 at 18:39
Apparently so k9, I’m still sticking with him till the end, a Manchester United fan who embodies loyalty, although it seems the agent has got into his head. Jameso I assume you read that in the ‘papers? because we didn’t bid 22m for Berbatov last year, we tried to buy him from Leverkusen because of the fact he was available for 10m, none of us know if Sir Alex is ready to spend big bucks on him, so don’t make assumptions about his opinions. By the way why do you say ‘gat’ when ‘got’ uses just as many letters? Its not like it saves time or anything…
There are plenty of people who could play for us, Ibrahimovic is the same type of player as Berbatov but better in eery epartment, bby the way Berbatov is a terribble header of the ball so he won’t be adding another dimension through that, Huntelaar is apparently quite good, and likely to be a cheaper option, Anelka would add another dimension to our game just like Berbatov, but in a different way, there are plenty of people we could speculate about but who knows? Why not wait until we actually make a bid for them this year.
December 11th, 2007 at 19:20
i want to see fabien brandy or campbell start, my mate knows fabien from grassroots football and says hes apparently very good on the ball with has quick feet. whether this is true or not i would like to find out.
December 11th, 2007 at 19:40
im sticking to brown to the end but we need to look at it realisticly, if brown is going(and he most likely is) we need to find a replacement, but i would by someone young a possible future replacement for neville, with simmo and him competing
December 11th, 2007 at 19:43
its unfortunat that we cant see campbell, from past records it shows he’s a REAL ENGLISH goal scorer
December 11th, 2007 at 19:54
Jameso; You are so right man about Ronaldinho. For him to come here is complete lunacy unless Fergie is totally unhappy with the contribution of Nani and his potential that he feels that Ronaldinho is the answer on the left side. I seriously doubt that. Fergie is a patient man and Nani is a true talent. Personally, I don’t think Ronaldinho is going anywhere. His problem is with Riijkard and I don’t see Riijkard staying for long. Once he is gone Ronaldinho will once again become the sweetheart of Barcelona fans.
It is unfortunate that Wes Brown wants to leave but he deserves to start and if he doesn’t have that in his future at United, then he should move on. He has been a loyal and long serving player for us and I for one thank him and wish him well. Bashing him is just a sign of selfishness stupidity and the lack of loyalty and gratitude for the years he gave us.
I am also shocked to read that Fergie has decided to start Rooney. Of all the player other than Ronaldo who should be rested for obvious reasons, Rooney would be the one. Why is he playing and risking injury in a meaningless game? Do we have an overabundance of strikers if the worst case scenario occurs? United will lose the match 2-0. And thats ok because it is meaningless for us. The key is to not be humiliated and to make sure we come out of the game healthy.
December 11th, 2007 at 20:03
About Ronaldinho I think its just the press making up total crap again, and since we tried to buy him before we are linked with him now. Although I’d say its loking like we got an even better deal from Ronaldinho rejecting us, Ronaldo. Cheaper, will serve us for longer than ronaldinho would have and, now, Ronaldo is the better player. And Grognard it looks like your dream of a 4-2-2-2 with Veloso won’t be happening any time soon, it was a nice idea though, maybe further in the future it will happen
December 11th, 2007 at 20:09
Interesting stuff SAF giving in to Player Demands!!!
hell he is really calming down (due to age i guess)
Anyways i’ll be happy with a 0-0 draw but with a defense like that we’re sure to let one in but hope nani rooney and saha can get one back as well so will be interesting and good to know the new kids as well
December 11th, 2007 at 21:40
As much as i don’t want to risk rooney, i don’t want to see our youngsters get humiliated. Having Rooney leading them out there doesn’t sound like a bad idea. Anyway Rooney hasn’t been getting as much games as he would like because of injury. And my guess is he would be taken out after maybe 70mins or so regardless of the result. Same for the likes of Saha and carrick i believe.
By the way which of our young players can come on for Carrick/Fletcher (centre-mid) if their substituted. I know Gibson plays there but hes out on loan. So who else?
December 11th, 2007 at 21:51
i dont think this counts as player demand…… and its not new, Sir Alex let Cantona do a lot of things…. he sees a player enthusiastic about his football and is happy to encourage it…. nothing to read into that!!!
December 11th, 2007 at 22:29
I agree Jameso, we do need another striker; and hopefully we’ll get one in January.
Btw, David Villa expressed his interest in the Premier League, do you think Chelsea will pick him up to replace Drogba (assuming Drogba leaves/is out for a while)? I say Man U get him!
December 11th, 2007 at 22:32
Actually, I figured Rooney would play Roma. I think he needs a little more match fitness before the Liverpool game. He needs to get back to his scoring ways! And also, with the way Saha’s been playing.. Saha + Dong up front would be embarrassing.
December 11th, 2007 at 23:51
Thats not a bad idea kurt but I’m afraid Chelsea would beat us hands down if we had a transfer tug of war, as they did with Robben and Essien, plus he would never settle for the bench and I think its unfair to drop Tevez after all his efforts, there’s no doubt that Villa would be a good partner for either Rooney or Tevez though.
December 12th, 2007 at 0:25
Villa would cost an awful lot of money for someone who wouldn’t even be expected to be in the first 11. Personally I would be reluctant to commit more than £10-12m to a third choice striker.
December 12th, 2007 at 0:39
I’m still sticking with Anelka, he’s the best for value, less than 15m and has the quality to come on at any time and score. I couldn’t care less about his mood, it’s more just the fact that he is a moody quiet person, rather than someone who ruins team spirit, and he trains well, from what I hear.
December 12th, 2007 at 0:44
Yeah, it would be too tough to bench any of these great players; and although we could rotate them, SAF is not Rafa (thank God). Anybody know of any decent strikers who wouldn’t cost too much and would be willing to be a bench player? One lad I do like is Mido. I’ve only watched him play a few times at the beginning of the season, and he seemed pretty good. Definitely an aerial threat. And I doubt he would cost more then £10m. Unfortunately he’s only just joined Middlesborough in the summer so he may not be willing to leave.. unless they are relegated at the end of the season.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:26
SAF should play a back four with some experience. So, I would start with Simpson, Brown, Pique and O’Shea. My midfield would comprise: Nani, Fletcher, Carrick and Eagles. And up front, I would have: Rooney and Saha, both need the game time.
I would bring off the subs bench: Evans, Dong and possibly Kieran Lee, the reserves captain. Very difficult to predict score because impossible to know how the United team will gell, and the team Roma will put out. So, no score predictions from me except that I expect United to lose if Roma put out a strong team.
December 12th, 2007 at 5:29
Rooney needs the game to sharpen up before the dipper match…
He’ll come off 70 min
December 12th, 2007 at 6:48
cool………..
December 12th, 2007 at 9:17
Kurt the reason Mido plays for a Middlesborough is because he is that bad, we are definitely not going to buy him.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:00
Anand
“well i think its gonna be 3-1 to roma . i feel man utd fans will again be thrashed by roma police as they were last time. guess the difference this time will be that old boy fergie and some of his players like ronaldo(if he plays) will be thrashed also. really ive never seen dogs being thrashed as hard as man utd fans the last time they went to rome ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I guess u r a fucking arshole or liverfool mutherfucking wanker, for you to laff at lads being thrashed like fucking dogs. I also guess mate u r not a brit or else u won’t fucking talk shit bout human beings tht way. Any fucking wanker who thinks that to thrash any fuckingn lad is a delight should fucking have himself checked.
So Anand go fuck urself.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:06
Conor
On the berbatov issue mate, i wouldn’t go into that. U lads should just wait & see. And on the failed bid mate. The gaffer really put in a bid over d summer wen the lad was unsettled.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:09
guys talk about a third striker meaning tevez gets less time.have u realised he links up play better than rooney?realistically,roonry needs to up his game.he has been a prospect for long.he shows brilliance in one game,then freezes out the next.can u still say he is in the same class as ronaldo?a couple of seasons back he was shead.
December 12th, 2007 at 14:40
Busingye
Take it easy on the lad, he gat what it takes. Even the great Maradona has said he is the best player in the world. As for tevez linking play better, the lad seems to be doing this cos wazza is playing as the point man (9) in the parnership so it seems as if carlito is d one doing all the work.
December 12th, 2007 at 16:30
jameso,dont get it wrong.ilove rooney,am one of the people that never slag off our own players.all am saying is people take it for granted that a third striker means bench for tevez.i know wazza links up play well but would you rather have him on that or rooney?personally i would take tevez.
December 12th, 2007 at 17:35
26.
are you dumb or dumb, we’ve already qualified and we ARE finishing top, why play fletcher o’shea carrick ect. when they’ll be needed on saturday?your one of those fans who only look at a match as something we MUST win, and has no tactics.
December 12th, 2007 at 17:48
[dan]
Fletcher and Carrick need games too, our ideal midfield would have Hargreaves and Anderson against ‘Pool.
You do realize SAF would be playing Rooney today. So does that mean he’s dumb?
December 12th, 2007 at 18:19
Playing Rooney in Rome is a major risk even if he needs the minutes to get himself back in fitness and in form. Roma are not about to give him an easy time and they are a very bitter team that has been waiting for this match with blood lust and revenge on their minds. A harsh tackle on Wayne could ruin his and ours season in one insane second. It is foolhardy to play an injury prone player like Rooney against a top Italian side that is known for physical tackling.
And as far as benching starters for the game. You cannot go into the game without any starters. Stability is needed. I still believe that either Rio or Vidic will start as the central part of our defense as it needs that experience factor either one brings along. Otherwise we will get thrashed 4-0.
Games like this are such a risk and such a waste of time. This tournament is so poorly organized. I often wish for the day of the old European Cup knockout tournament returning. Every game mattered and there were fewer games played to the final. Today there are too many exhausting games where some are even pointless and the time and effort put into these games risks injury and fatigue when teams still have to challenge for their own domestic league championships. The CL is bloated and pretentious.
December 12th, 2007 at 19:01
nope red ranter, rooney is of form, a match against roma before pool would be good to get his match fitness up, fletcher and carrick need games to yes but in the long run, there going to get much more first-team chances than the squad we have now, if we were still in the carling than yea i would play them, but we’re not so might as well play them now. the only other time i can see us playing with a squad full of reserves and youths would be us winning the league with matches to go or drawing a lower league or confrence team.
im guessing that you havent seen the squad for roma yet grognard.
December 12th, 2007 at 19:09
[dan]
Fletcher and Carrick need match sharpness too. They need loads of it if we are to successfully get past the busy december schedule unscathed. Fletch has hardly played this season and Carrick needs at least another half. The youngsters can still wait their turn but lads like Carrick and Fletch need to play when there is a chance for them. After all, they are not playing at Anfield anyway — injuries notwithstanding.
December 12th, 2007 at 19:36
point taken, i have my opinions and you have yours, both have logic behind them.
December 12th, 2007 at 19:41
[Dan]
Thanks for mentioning. Wasn’t aware of it.
December 12th, 2007 at 19:53
Team News:
GK: PIG
RB: Simpson
CB: Pique
CB: Evans
LB: O’Shea
RW: Eagles
CM: Fletcher
CM: Carrick
LM: Nani
ST: Rooney
St: Saha
December 12th, 2007 at 19:57
that team hasnt been confirmed yet, source?
December 12th, 2007 at 20:07
Uefa’s website – it gets the line ups first.
http://www.uefa.com/Live/Competitions/ucl/matchday=6/day=3/match=301241/index.html
December 12th, 2007 at 20:13
cool, i woulda liked more youngsters
December 12th, 2007 at 20:31
Rooney ownz Roma whenever he plays them. I’m sure that he will get quite a boost from his contribution today that can be used against the scouse.
But, I also agree that there is a Huge risk involved, but great reward as well. I’ll just trust SAF on this one.
Glory Glory
December 12th, 2007 at 20:32
Anyone else thinking about the next round already? I only ask because I was just looking at the final group standings after yesterdays matches + what is expected today. By my reckoning, because of Liverpool & Arse coming in second, (barring a slip up from Seville tonight) we should get a pretty decent draw. We can only get 1 of ….
Schalke
Olympiacos
Celtic
Rangers/Lyon (depending on tonights results)
Fenerbache/PSV (depending on tonight)
With us not being able to draw a team from our own Football Association nor Roma again for the 2nd round…
Id say its looking pretty sweet for the next round. Best scenario would be olympiacos. Worst, Lyon or PSV. Either Id fancy ourselves against anyways.
Id be very surprised if we didnt make the 1/4s!
December 12th, 2007 at 21:20
Pique and vidic could really terrorize defenders in the penalty area.they are brilliant in the air.
December 12th, 2007 at 21:47
OK, it’s halftime and I am not only surprised but in shock. So far the lads have exceeded my wildest expectations. They have looked composed and comfortable on the ball and they have also looked dangerous in attack. Rooney is doing a very good job leading by example but also screaming and directing players with his arms. This is proof positive that he should be the team’s next captain.
Roma are looking like shite and Totti looks like he is fighting his fitness. Yes Roma have had a few chances and some scary moments where Pique and Evans ave looked a little suspect but Kuszczak has been very good back there and has made some solid saves. For a team seeking revenge Roma are looking woefully ill equipped not only to win against our B team but to do anything else in this tournament. They are lacking the quality they are known for in midfield.
Rooney has played ok but he ruined a few quality opportunities because his first touch betrayed him. Saha has looked good but he needs to do more damage inside the box, not out.
Simpson has been very good attacking up the right side and Nani has looked dangerous at times although he seems to always make that one too many move and lose the ball or the advantage. O’Shea has been outstanding as has MICHAEL CARRICK (YES you are reading this correctly). Carrick has made some decent if not spectacular passes tonight but he has really defended well and kept the midfield composed and organized. Fletcher has also done well in that regard.
It’s time for the second half. Lets hope for more of the same. Roma should come out pissed off and hungry.
December 12th, 2007 at 21:58
Park, Park, wherever you may be
You may eat dogs in your home country
it could be worse
you could be scouse
eating rats in your council house.
Its almost hard to care too much tonight….
December 12th, 2007 at 22:09
Apparently SAF would have played Park tonight if he had been registered for the CL. See the bottom of the following link.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1028039_gary_back_in_running
December 12th, 2007 at 22:33
A few things i have learnt from this game:I am a better footballer than dong. He cant run or even just pass.eagles is is not united quality,he was anonymous.simpson will not replace gary neville.pique is quite a good player and would be better if he could be more alert.and most importantly our squad is very very strong.for a second string side to draw with roma at the stadio olympico is a great achievement.ps nani is stupid some of the moves he tries are unbelievable,especially in the second half.
December 12th, 2007 at 22:35
Are we selling shirts in china?because to include dong means we must be.i cant think of anyother season.
December 12th, 2007 at 22:36
i wanted to see brandy play
December 12th, 2007 at 22:53
Good game eh? To salvage a point in Rome, off a team looking to earn some prestige off our boys, and that in style for most part. Rooney is good value for money as captain. A Napoleaon, if height be any measure, but who cares? Lad’s got the balls right where they’re supposed to be.
Carrick slipped up in the second half. Let through one too many passes and men from the opposition. Why can’t he be a little more firm on the ball when under challenge? Eagles has got quick feet. The winger does well to track back most of the times and works hard at both ends but has not yet got the composure or the skill to match our expectations post Ronnie.
Pique is good. He misses one too many a header occasionally but is otherwise a good bet to replace an ageing Vidic some seasons from now, if he sticks around. (He ain’t fast enough to replace Rio)
My kudos though, to Danny Simpson. He’s got the eye and the foot for the neat cross, and the speed and the composure to put in a decent tackle. Can’t say he can mark well though. That’ll pick up I hope. In maybe two seasons, he should be ready. An ideal replacement for our current captain.
Lastly, what the heck is Nani upto? The fellow loses the ball too often. He is not a great dribbler. Can’t keep his head for a good shot, and certainly isn’t a Scholes at the pass.
Dammit, he’s taking his time to mature innit? For all the hype, I mean. I’d rate him the worst after Dung (The hottest prospect from China- My ASS!). And Kuczsack has got to improve his positioning. Guy gets caught out of position more often than not, not to mention his abominable kicking ‘ability’.
By the way, Roma can now officially shove the ‘prestigious’ point right up their…oh there might be kids reading this innit Rantyboi? No 18-yrs-and-older disclaimer is there?
December 12th, 2007 at 22:57
Meddleuk; Racists like you don’t belong on this blog so FUCK OFF!
December 12th, 2007 at 23:06
[Grognard]
You are mistaken here. There is no racism as such here. It is a swipe at the Scousers.
Never say this if you are in Manchester. And this chant was made by Man Utd fans mate. Meddleuk is a Man utd fan.
December 12th, 2007 at 23:08
Nani should be picked for corners.he needs to be taught to think.he actually is quite fast but he doesnt know how to use his speed.its like he cant think.as for dong?i dont think we should put him in the side for marketing purposes.we could be developing another striker in his place.what a waste!
December 12th, 2007 at 23:10
Our lads did great! Nani: good as always, nice cross.
It would have been a good chance to display Park, but since he didn’t register:(
I guess he will be featured after the scousers.
December 12th, 2007 at 23:36
This game was truly a heroic effort by the lads tonight but they should have won the game. LOUIS SAHA YOU USELESS PRATT! How he could make a meal of the gift Rooney gave him is beyond me. A little composure and some finesse and that was a gimme of a goal. The same could be said for Nani’s chance near the end. All it took was a quick look and a low shot to one of the corners. He made it easy for the gk when he elevated the ball.
It is Saha’s colossal miss that cost us this game. We would have been 2-0 up and it probably would have killed off the game. Instead Fergie baffles me by taking O’Shea (the best player on the pitch) off and then he moves Simpson to LB and brings in Brown at RB. Well Brown was horrible in the time he played I’m afraid to say. He gave Mancini far too much room (although Pique should have been more aggressive attacking the ball too) when he scored. He then allowed Vucinic to get behind him and miss a clear shot right at 90 minutes. What was he thinking? Is his head totally messed up with the breakdown of contract negotiations for an extension? The team played so much better without him out there and to be honest, Danny Simpson at RB was far superior giving us more flair and a high speed alternative on offense while defensively attacking ball carriers on our right side.
As soon as Rooney went off for the useless Dong Fangzhou I felt we played a very desperate game and were lucky not to lose. We still looked decent on attack but our shape and marking was poor after that. I should have known that Carrick’s fine first half was only a mirage because he was useless in the second half and almost gifted Roma two goals with mistakes and shoddy marking. Kuczczak also looked very tentative and nervous after Roma scored.
Nevertheless, this was an outstanding hard working but predictably pedestrian performance by the B-Side. They showed passion and commitment if not very little skill. I’m starting to have doubts about Nani and his habit for giving up the ball and not making the right play at the right time. That long reach chance Eagles missed on the counter should never have gone to him. Nani had Saha in a perfect position to score and he hesitated and then fed a poor ball to Eagles that he couldn’t quite reach. Nani also had many opportunities to cut in and drive a shot but he always chose to go wide and then give up on the ball. Ronaldo also made plenty of mistakes when he first arrived but he was much more assertive and sure of himself with the ball and attacked relentlessly. Nani seems to lack that extra gear and spark that Ronny has.
My biggest concern in the game was United’s continual habit to allow clear cut shots between the posts but just outside the box. This has been a problem for three years now and it was at it’s absolute worse when Milan took advantage of this weakness last year. Tonight Roma’s lack of finish and quality helped us get off the hook but we gave them too many of these types of shots. Yes it was the B team, but the A team is also very guilty of sagging back and not aggressively attacking the ball carrier in that area or wide on our right side. Their goal was scored because Brown was ball watching rather than moving out and taking the ball off Mancini. I hate zone defenses against good CL opponents. It allows for too many quality shots from 15 to 20 yards.
I am proud of the team tonight as they accomplished a major feat by not losing at Roma. They showed plenty of character and grit but few players actually showed me enough to say that one day they will be a first teamer on United. Simpson was the best of the young group as he showed a willingness to attack which I think was noticed by Fergie. Pique is a force offensively and he is a good defender technically but he lacks the necessary aggressiveness to play that position as a first teamer. Eagles, Evans, Dong Fangzhou showed me little to make me feel that they have a future with United. They would have potential to crack other clubs first eleven, but not United’s As for Saha, he is classic a waste of time and space. The man’s confidence is zero and his lack of attacking zest is apparent. I cannot remember a time in the game where he even touched the ball in the opposition box. Nani, may well be a star but right now, I ‘m feeling Ronaldinho more than ever if you know what I mean. Nani is presently not doing it for me.
Also, that was a blatant RED CARD that Roma bastard deserved for that career risking foul on Johnny Evans. I don’t think Fergie saw it because he didn’t make his usual big stink to the ref. Or ar those tantrums just reserved for fouls on his long lost son Ronaldo. SAF, you have to show that same rage and support to your other players too when they have an injustice dealt to them.
WELL DONE LADS. Lots of improvement needed but tonight’s effort was
NOTICE TO SAF: Please buy a striker in January. Thanks, Grognard
December 12th, 2007 at 23:53
Red Ranter; Give me a frakken break!
“Park, Park, wherever you may be
You may eat dogs in your home country”
Correct me if I’m wrong but did he not suggest that Park eats dog because of his heritage? Basically he is as saying that being a Korean who eats dog is better than being a rat eating Scouser.
Accusing anyone of eating dog in our culture is an insult whether they do or they don’t. I for one was offended by it and I feel I have good cause to be.
I am not the politically correct type but that was out of line and you should not be after me for telling him off. He should be banned for shit like that. Accusing supporters of another team of something vile is one thing, but saying racist remarks about any player whether they are opponents or our own should be off limits.
December 13th, 2007 at 0:04
Grognard: The Park dog chant is one of the more popular ones songs currently doing the rounds at OT. I wouldn’t regard it as racist nor particularly offensive (no more so than say ‘build a bonfire and put the Scousers on top’), it should be taken very much as tongue in cheek.
P.S. O’Shea picked up a groin injury at half time, that is why he was taken off.
December 13th, 2007 at 0:10
Grognard on Nani, I hope its just the added pressure of everyone comparing his every move to that of Ronaldos when he first came, and he’s not coping with the pressure well, but I have my doubts as well, and apparently the Sprting Lisbon fans were delighted to get more han 10m from him, but with the amount of talented footballers at this club it seems impossible for him not to improve greatly, from Giggs and Ronaldo mostly. And about saha, although he seems to be completely lost these days, we all know he as the talent and I don’t think we should give up on him until he’s left. It’s a different situation to Carrick and the others, we all know he is a very good player and can be consistently good player over a long period of time, and it seems that even with his injuries he still has his speed and incredible ability to turn defenders with ease, but he seems completely unmotivated and that’s not a good sign, I still think he’s United quality though. Also, another croner assist from Nani, its a wonder why he can’t cross that well in open play.
December 13th, 2007 at 0:23
[Grognard]
As JB said the Park-dog chant is among the most popular United fan chants. I am surprised you haven’t heard of it earlier. I suppose you would want all the Manchester United fans banned from the stadium, then. Anyway I can see where you are coming from. It would offend some one at first glance, but there is context here.
FACT: They actually chant it at OT when Park plays!
Here is a link containing some chants for specific players. Scroll down to the bottom, to see Park’s chant. CLICK
December 13th, 2007 at 0:23
I think an honourable mention should go out to Steven Gerrard who has the incredibly prestigious title of being the 6th Dippers player to be robbed in the last 18 months (Condsidering that they all live in Liverpool that statistic works out to be less than the average amount of robberies per 30 people
). Does anyone find it strange that the club did nothing after the first 5 players were robbed but after Stevie gets robbed they are rushing to protect theirs player’s homes?
December 13th, 2007 at 0:26
Well I wouldn’t like to stereotype people, but whenever I hear about Scouse robberies, they make it very difficult for me.
It’s just too funny.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:15
Sorry but I have never heard the chant before. Being Canadian I am not one for chants as I see them as a waste of time and voice. It’s a cultural thing. I’d rather root rant and holler when I am watching a game live. Singing for me belongs in the concert hall. Nevertheless, it is a very racist chant and being from a country that would never tolerate that kind of shit, I was offended by it. The fact that thousands do it doesn’t make it right and this blog is international. We should all be better than this.
I honestly don’t understand Europe and it’s football supporters. Today 5 United fans were stabbed by Roma supporters. Over what? Over football. MADNESS! SIMPLE MADNESS! When you stab a fellow human being over their football allegiance, I guess the Park chant seems like nothing in comparison. North America may be ignorant towards the great game but at least we act liked civilized human beings when we support our sports over hear. Violence and racism is just too rampant in the game right now for us to tolerate such garbage.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:23
JB; it is offensive because it is making a cultural slur towards and indvidual and a race and not a team of supporters. To call Scousers filthy pigs who are disgusting, no class clowns and thieves is perfectly fine. They are not a race and I am not insulting an individual. It’s a rude generalization against opponents. Park is not only Korean, but he is a United player. Why then would the supporters come out and sing such a blatantly offensive song about him? For me it makes no sense and it is something I wouldn’t expect from any supporters from any team. It lacks sensitivity and class. Excusing it because many sing it is just adding to the problem.
Remember how you reacted and warned be about referring to you as Irish, when indeed I should have used the term Northern Irish? I wasn’t trying to be insensitive. I was just a dumb Canadian that never realized that it was so sensitive a distinction. Referring to a race of people as dog eaters is far worse in my opinion. Referring to one of your own as one is unforgivable. Anyway I’ll put the topic to rest as I have had my say on it.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:33
Liverpool players are supposedly millionaires. Can they not afford proper security for their homes or are they completely surrounded by thieves and scoundrels? I know, silly question.
Conor; Nani is an enigma for me right now. Yes he seems to cross the ball well from corners but I do believe that he seems to lack that extra gear to beat defenders one on one. You need that when you play wide. Right now he is trying to trick them but he is failing because he doesn’t have the ball skill that Ronaldo possesses.
Saha is awful, I’m sorry. His confidence is shot and when you add the lack of motivation you cannot afford as a top team to wait for him to regain both his confidence and form, let alone his lackadaisical attitude. If United do not buy a striker in January Fergie should be shot. We WILL NOT win the EPL or the CL or the FA Cup without a third striker who can be a difference maker late in games or in the odd start.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:45
I for one have still not forgotten Saha’s contribution to the title last year!
Give him some more time…
His confidence is down but he has had a couple of nice passes and a few assists. Last night was poor.
December 13th, 2007 at 6:22
Wow Grognard…type much?? LoL. Very outspoken do you speak this much as well. If so I hope you give thos Man U haters hell.
Glory Glory Baby!!
December 13th, 2007 at 7:04
I am outspoken and I do talk a lot but I also have the ability to listen once I let somebody get a word in edgewise. I just let the stuff roll out when it is about a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Manchester United, the New York Yankees and quality films can get me talking for hours. I love to exchange ideas and views on many topics. I used to be a teacher so lecturing and speaking a lot became a bit of a habit. I also am a writer and so writing is effortless to me. Sorry if I’m long winded and boring to some. It’s just that I am not a fan of short and sweet. The ADD generation with their computer abbreviated lingo just drives me frakken crazy.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:02
Grognard re: Yankees – would love to know more about your feelings on them (is there a baseblog blog you can recommend?) I just came to NY myself, and the Yankees fascinate me. I don’t mind long articles myself. I don’t understand people who “read” a blog and then complain the article’s too long. They’ve clearly not been reading much.
Back to the football – I thought the young lads did great, 1 -1 is respectable indeed, especially since Roma pretty much ended the game with their first choice XI. Well done. But there’s tremendous room for improvement, you can sense the nervousness amongst the players. On a random note, O’Shea was great for us.
And I wish players would just stop with the badge-kissing. Totally overhyped action with little meaning, unless it’s Gaz Nev or Giggs doing it.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:11
Well played United, Pique 2 goals in 2!
December 13th, 2007 at 10:16
good perfomance by the lads.please fans please.stop slagging players when we have played well.if saha was bad,how was rooney?the only united player never to be criticised.poor in my opinion.but its a team effort.take out one and the team will struggle.lets not comment on how bad players are because i think we are the only club that criticise our own players.shit liverpool thinks carragher is great.grognard please read what u write.in one post carrick was good,in the other he was useless in the second half.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:12
Groggie (If I may call you that out of pure familiarity, of sorts)
To you, the Park chant may sound racist because the thought of eating a dog sounds offensive. Dude, for all we know, Park doesn’t find it so because such a thing could be commonplace and very ordinary in his place. I know I’m going to get gutted for this, but nonetheless, Geronimo…
It is like saying calling an Arab an Arab or a black man a black man is racism. That IMHO, is unadulterated bullsh*t. It ain’t racism anymore than calling you a Canadian loudmouth, or me an Indian d*ckhead, if you will. I live in a country where every remark is scrutinized thoroughly for such connotations. I find it very ridiculous, but when you live in a multi-religious and multicultural society, it becomes a necessity to the point of being a sham. Let us not bring that nitpicky culture to this blog. Let the stupidest and ugliest idea be tossed about unfettered, and be absorbed and treated as such- with contempt and disdain, but on a personal level only. Don’t call for heads by citing racism and other socio-politically corrective standards of thought. That, again IMHO, is really f*cked up.
So here’s to you you Half-Brit twat!
Regards,
the Indian Schmuck
December 13th, 2007 at 12:46
Busingye you say”grognard please read what u write” but it is you whi should be reading his 2nd comment about Carrick again as he clearly said “I should have known that Carrick’s fine first half was only a mirage because he was useless in the second half and almost gifted Roma two goals with mistakes and shoddy marking”, and os he acknowledeged the fact he had a goof first half but then showed his inconsistency by having a bad second half. Grognard everyone has their own views on racism but since RR is the only person who could ban people we should just ignore anything we percieve as racist, and let RR decide, I just look as it as common footballing banter and since nothing bad comes of it then theres nothing wrong with it. by the way you refer back to Canada way too much, it’s very tiresome.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:46
@ busingye
1) Please understand the difference between slagging and constructive criticism/ranting. Nobody is getting on back of anybody here.
2) whats ur perennial problem with Rooney? We are lucky to have him. He has been criticized when warranted. So kindly let us know why u are so bitter about him, with some reasons.
December 13th, 2007 at 13:22
@Grognard
I’m not trying to pick on you or start a debate, but I do feel I have to address this issue:
Fact: Chinese eat dogs
Fact: They are not ashamed of it (like Japanese are proud of eating raw/live fish).
(Not quite sure if Koreans eat dogs as well).
If Easteners don’t think its a bad thing to eat dogs (Westeners do), then who exactly is being racist? He who sings it, or he who takes offence?
IMHO, I’d say it depends on the situation.
December 13th, 2007 at 13:30
Someone over at Soccerlens posted the link to a very interesting article:
In short, its about the role of Anderson in our team.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_vickery/12/11/brazil.europe/1.html
December 13th, 2007 at 14:04
I read it Karl and I just think tim vickery made a snap judgement on maybe one or two performances(Arsenal being one of them) as he is implying that Anderson plays in more of a deeper role in the midfield, but he is the one who goes further forward and hargreaves sits back, and the reason I think he thinks this is because of the amount of tackles he puts in during a game. Not a bad article, but bad research on Tim’s part, in my opinion.
December 13th, 2007 at 16:02
how do some of you guys eat pigs?pigs are much filthy than dogs.atleast,people live with dogs
December 13th, 2007 at 16:20
Exactly sunny, dogs are friendly, so they’re better to have as a pet rather than to eat, pigs are useles other than for meat, and since they are so fat and juicy and have no hair, they’re delicious.
December 13th, 2007 at 16:30
grognard, you need to chill out dude. chanting is part of english football and for someone who says he doesn’t care much about political correctness you surprise me dude. it’s just all in good fun. and please don’t make it seem like north american sports culture is so much better. true, we don’t see a lot of fighting or racism, if any, but we do see psychos shooting up schools. six in one hand, half a dozen in the other, eh. concerning saha, i completely agree with you. while he has flashes of brilliance he negates them with being a lazy fucker. tevez always tracks back to our box and defends on counters. saha on the other hand, as i have noticed in the roma game, WALKED back on roma counters. like it has already been stated, we need a third striker that is willing to sit on the bench without bitching but as the same time provide quality cover in case of injury to either rooney or tevez.
December 13th, 2007 at 16:34
Those fucking Roma Wankers should be banned from European football entirely, after what them wankers did yesterday.
December 13th, 2007 at 16:46
i agree jameso. someone here said that roma is one of the best serie a teams. really??? cause the way i see it they were shit, with sprinkles on top.
December 13th, 2007 at 16:46
Partly agree with you Jameso, but JB makes a good point that it was always a possibility, so why bother going over, why take the risk? And it’s not roma’s fault, it’s Italy’s Fa’s fault, if they can’t sort out hooliganism then football should be banned for a while over there.
December 13th, 2007 at 17:16
[ Conor ]
The love for the team mate, that why u travel to watch the team even if it is dem school lads dat would fucking play mate.
But that does not give dem wankers the cause to fucking molest human beings. Guess dem wankers just havn’t forgiven us for the 7-1 bashing dey received. Them fucking riot police didn’t help matters, Fuck dem all
December 13th, 2007 at 18:31
busingye; It is you mate who is having a problem reading. Regarding Carrick, go back and read the two posts again, or do you like so many others have a problem with anything over a sentence long? The first post was written at halftime and I claimed that Carrick had played well. The second post was after the game and I claimed that he had a poor second half. Sorry guy but that’s the way it was. He was great for one half and sucked for another. That’s the story of Michael Carrick’s career at United.
I also wrote that I felt Rooney played well and worked real hard but that his first touch had betrayed him a few times and that may have cost United a couple of sure fire scoring chances. In my books that is a light criticism for a player who worked his ass off in the game and who led by example and who wore the captain’s armband with pride and dignity.
I also praised Simpson, O’Shea and others before I leveled a little criticism at their lack of inexperience and polish.
Finally, if you can’t handle the criticism of players don’t read the posts that are negative, or just get a grip. We all have a right to voice our opinions. Stop being such an emotional wallflower and stop dictating to others what they should write and how they should think. This blog is also a forum for debate. If we all agreed it would be pretty fucking boring. JEEZ! I wasn’t aware this was a right wing Christian fascist fundamentalist blog that only wants reviews that come from behind the white picket fence and that are squeaky clean and positive. I’ll write about United as I see United and I would expect everybody out there to voice their honest opinions and not feel they must walk on egg shells for fear that the over sensitive fans like yourself will commit suicide or scream outrage. Get a grip please and accept the fact that we are all fans but that we don’t all see the game the same way.
December 13th, 2007 at 18:47
WARNING! WARNING! This post is about baseball so don’t read it unless you are interested.
Artful Lounger; Good to hear from another Yankees fan out there. Yes I have been a Yankees fan for 35 years. I love them and I have enjoyed a lot of success with them as I do with Manchester United. I don’t intentionally choose winning teams to support, it just seems to work out that way. Generally I will notice a player or two who happen to grab my eye and imagination and I’ll follow their careers. That is how I became a United and Yankees fan. For me, Giggs, and Cantona grabbed my attention in the early 90’s. Before that Robson and Hughes. The Yankees have been big for me from day one because of their rich history of Ruth, Mantle, Dimaggio, and then of course the Reggie Jackson era which totally won me over. My all time favorite player though spent most of his career in Boston. That is Roger Clemens. I loved the Yankees dearly during his years in New York. I also am a big fan of Derek Jeter and the new kid Jaba Chamberlain who I see as the next Clemens. That team and Roger Clemens have offered me plenty of success and lots of great memories. And today I read that Clemens has been named in the steroid scandal by that congressional committee investigating the problem. I don’t want to believe it but I just don’t know. This guy is like a god to me. True idol worship. I would be totally gutted if it came out that it was true.
Anyway, I haven’t contributed to a Yankee blog for a while but the one that I used to use was one called FANHOME.COM. They control blogs for all the teams and for other sports as well. It gets a large following so I would suggest trying that one first. Let me know what you think.
December 13th, 2007 at 18:52
Is hargreaves fit for sunday?
December 13th, 2007 at 18:52
“Fact: Chinese eat dogs
Fact: They are not ashamed of it (like Japanese are proud of eating raw/live fish).
(Not quite sure if Koreans eat dogs as well).”
karl get your facts right before you type, it is not chinese that eat dogs its korean, that is why the chant is aimed at park ji-sung. i do think the chant can be a little harsh but im sure it cant be too offensive to koreans. it is the same as the french eating frogs but they dont mind. Living in manchester, it is a common culture to slag off scousers in any way and that was the whole point of that chant.
on dong fangzhuo, as a chinese football fan i wanted to see him succeed but i think he lacks the instincts of a top class footballer. he never really gets into good positions which is no good considering he is a striker, and he is not agressive enough aswell. He can finish but thats about it. it is a shame really. The reason why china produce so little talent is that the people dont care, they rather live a mediocre life rather than aiming high to become a sporting hero. The kids have noone to look up to. If the korean and japanese can do it then why can’t the chinese? the country is large enough, and holds a fifth of the worlds population, so it really frustrates me.
December 13th, 2007 at 19:15
HEY K9; I resent that. I’m a half-Greek twat, OK. I see your point but I’m sorry, where I come from the the dog eating comment is a major insult. I live in Vancouver Canada and the population of greater Vancouver is 30% Chinese, 10% Hindu. In fact, I read the chant to my very good friend Doug last night and he found it highly insulting. Doug is Chinese. Do not excuse an insulting statement just because a bunch of uneducated, illiterate, socially intolerant meat heads choose to chant it at a game.
Racism is rampant everywhere but I am very proud to say that I live in probably the most racially diverse and tolerant country on the planet. Unlike many of our ignorant and insensitive brothers to the south, we Canadians are a very accepting and tolerant lot. That is why we have a great reputation throughout the world and are not seen as troublemakers and evil doers. That doesn’t make us perfect though as occasional racism shows up here too.
I’m actually one of those Canadians that is not politically correct and quite often I’ll put my foot in my mouth. For me to find that chant offensive should be taken with much more validity, as I often turn my nose down to all the goody two shoes in society that cannot tolerate any views they deem incorrect. Sorry K9, no excuse for it. Nobody is going to change my mind on that. The fact that a bunch of white skinheads sing a racist chant in the stands at Old Trafford just confirms to me what we Canadians already know about the increased level of racism and intolerance in England and in Europe. Look at the way black players are treated by the crowds in Spain and Italy. It’s a disgrace.
And so what if Korean’s eat dog. If you put it to them like an insult because we
9the West) see eating dog as disgusting, it will be taken by them the same way. German’s love eating Saurkraut but they don’t like being referred to as Krauts. Mexicans live in a very warm country where sweating is normal but they don’t appreciate being referred to as Wetbacks. Indians do not like it when you refer to them as Curry grinders etc etc etc. Sorry mate but your case is weak and in my court, the chant is those who sing it are guilty as sin. There should be absolute no tolerance for racist remarks, even if the ones making them feel it is all in good fun. If it hurts others, it is wrong. That’s all I’m going to say about that. We should all know better and shame on all of you who cannot see that. Especially all of you of color. To all of you, double shame.
December 13th, 2007 at 19:20
cool……….FREDRIKA STAHL rocks~
December 13th, 2007 at 19:29
This really isnt a debate I came to a United blog to talk about, but since Grognard accused me of something I am completely offended by, I’ll take a little time after my 12 hour shift to explain myself.
Firstly, I meant no offense, it is a chant that has been doing the rounds at OT for a while now, more so when Ji-sung is playing. I hardly think the club officials, stewards etc. would stand by if he was offended, or if it was deemed offensive to any Koreans in the crowd or anyone else for that matter. The fact is, Korea does eat dog meat, whether thats right or not is not what the chant is about, nor is anyone judging in general. Just because its not common place in Western society doesnt mean its wrong.
An excerpt from good old wikipedia ….
“Gaegogi literally means “dog meat” in Korean. Gaegogi, however, is often mistaken as the term for Korean soup made from dog meat, bosintang. Though proponents claim that dogs used for food are a special breed, the soup may be made from any breed of dog. Lean dog meat is preferred for bosintang compared to fatty one, such as Siberian husky, while the latter is also suitable for Gaesoju (개소주), Korean medicinal dog wine.[28][29][30] The distaste felt by dog lovers, particularly from the West, with respect to eating dog has made this dish controversial in recent years. About two[31][32] to three[33] million dogs are consumed in South Korea every year that corresponds to more than one trillion South Korean won[32] ($1 billion at a rate of 1 USD per 1000 KRW).
The consumption of dog meat can be traced back many years. Dog bones were excavated in a neolithic settlement in Changnyeong, South Gyeongsang Province. One of the wall paintings in the Goguryeo tombs complex in South Hwangghae Province, a UNESCO World Heritage site which dates from 4th century AD, depicts a slaughtered dog in a storehouse.”
And another for good measure….
Canada
Although consumption of dog meat is not part of mainstream Canadian culture, it is practised by some cultural minorities. In 2003 , health inspectors discovered four frozen canine carcasses in the freezer of a Chinese restaurant in Edmonton.[12] Subsequently, the Edmonton health inspector said that it is not illegal to sell and eat the meat of dogs and other canines, as long as the meat has been inspected.[13] In the end, these four particular canine carcasses were found to be coyotes. Ed Greenburg, an official with Edmonton’s Capital Health Region, said the fact that the animals were coyotes doesn’t change anything and inspectors are still looking into the possibility that uninspected meat was served at the restaurant. Under Canada’s Wildlife Act, it is illegal to sell meat from any wild species. There is no law against selling and serving canine meat, including dogs, but it must be killed and gutted in front of federal inspectors.
Thankyou and goodnight.
UNI-TED
United are the team for me ….
December 13th, 2007 at 19:38
Oh BTW, I lived in Vancouver for 6 months and spent a year in Canada in total. Worked on Robson Street and lived on 14th & Macdonald. Lovely place, lovely people. I dont think I was considered a racist skin-head though. What with having a full head of hair, and not actually being racist and all that. Vancouver is a heavily “Asianised” city, I worked with many where I worked. It was fantastic. I think if I had shared that chant with them they would have found it funny tbh. Maybe the Canadian youth just have more of a sense of humour. Still, if you’ve been offended, Im sorry. Truth is 90 percent of chants offend someone, thats a part of the game here in Europe and South American, and Africa, and … well most places that you would probably deem uncivilised. North American sports events dont have the same negitive atmospheres, its true. They also dont have half the atmospheres at all, IMO.
Different cultures, different people, same desires.
ONE UNITED.
December 13th, 2007 at 20:12
Groggie,
Fair enough. In light of my own remarks, coupled with your ones, I’d like to gracefully say- to each his own. I can respect the differences, and I’m going continue to think that I wouldn’t be insulted being called a curry-grinder. Especially if it’s based on fact. (It’s actually nice, you know? Very distinguishing) Anyway, good fun eh? Stirred up a storm by the look of things…
December 13th, 2007 at 20:32
The British sense of humour and sporting atmosphere is significantly different to the North American one. The chant is not indented to be offensive to Park or Koreans; it is intended to take the piss out of scousers. Park in an interview with Rednews last year said he liked the chant. It was mentioned in the Redissue fanzine and by addy Crerand that the Korean press contingent were delighted when they heard Park had his own chant. There has been no attempt to stop the song and it is regarded as one of the funniest chants in the league. No one else in this blog has a problem with it other than you.
Despite this you have taken on yourself to describe the OT crowd (including sizable Irish, Pakistan, Chinese and Korean contingents) as a bunch of uneducated, illiterate, socially intolerant meat heads. I’m sorry but have you ever even been to OT? The current crowd has become increasingly family based, with a large corporate element. The old ‘hardcore’ element (which would be the closest fit to you sweeping generalisations) is largely gone, with a large chunk leaving with the FC United split.
Now your friend Doug, what has he got to do with it? Is his judgement more relevant because he is Asian? As Chris said dogs aren’t ate in China, so he has no more reason to take offence at it than any of the rest of us.
Racism has by and large been kicked out of English football and stewards clamp down on suggestions of it very quickly. The levels of racism in Spanish football are in a completely different league to anything in the UK. You don’t hear monkey sounds or see bananas thrown at players in English grounds. Manchester also has a sizable ethnic minority of 20%, including a sizable Chinease community.
If you don’t like the chant fine, but keep the moral pontificating to yourself.
December 13th, 2007 at 20:41
Conor; Sorry that my referring to my Canadian heritage annoys you. I bring it up to point out differences in viewpoints and ideology. I also am not as well informed about things United as well as supporters who live in the Manchester area or in England. Therefore, I point out my Canadian bias as well as my lack of to the minute info that others might have that I’m not able to get to.
Primachenko; I take great offense to the fact that you like to lump Canadians in with Americans. We are separated between a border and culturally we do share many things but we are completely different people in our values and our judgments. We are not racists nor do we follow our neighbor’s lead and shoot up schools. How god damned close minded can you get. Ignorance can only be gained by education and reading. Read, watch and learn something about a country before you label them. You bloody chicken and cow eater. It just doesn’t have the same bit to it does it? Because it is a regular part of Western diets. Knowing many Chinese and some Koreans I can easily say that although dog eating may occur in some small circles of those cultures, like monkey brains, it is considered a RARE and alternative delicacy. French eat frogs legs and so we call them Frogs. Germans eat saurkraut so we call them Krauts. Don’t get me started on English based on their cuisine.
It’s just so silly. We are all better than this and we should be a lot more tolerant of racial and social differences.
December 13th, 2007 at 20:48
Very good point there JB, i have always been delighted to see how british fooball has almost if not completely, got rid of racism in football and i am angry to see how other european countries cannot. It is great to see different people in old trafford eg. the indians at the front row, they always bring out a smile in me :] The atmosphere in british football is loud and amazing, yet controlled. so do not make assumptions grognard.
December 13th, 2007 at 20:48
HA IM GETTING !))… DAMIT CHRIS, I WANTED !)) LOL
December 13th, 2007 at 21:23
How did we get to diets?this is amazing really!
December 13th, 2007 at 22:08
yeehhhh 100 hows that danny boy… only joking thats silly.
December 13th, 2007 at 22:19
Grognard, for someone who doesn’t jump on the political correctness bandwagon you sure ain’t showing it, it’s a harmless (and quite funny) chant, racist? give me a break….
December 13th, 2007 at 22:19
1st thanks to Grognard:)
BTW I’m not offended by the chant. I get the British humor:)
But many koreans don’t get it. Many koreans get offended by the chant. Cultural difference!
I’m Korean so I’d like to throw in some info
-The consumpton of dogs is like Grognard said. It happens in a small circle of ppl.
Mainly by the older generation. How did it start?
One reason would be geographical aspects. It’s a small country mostly covered with mountains.
Not a great place to raise cattle. Owning 1 cow was considered rich:)
Second. Even in the 50’s our farms(Rice) couldn’t meet the demands. So when ppl had nothing to eat,
they ate barks(Tree), made soup out of grass. We were a very poor country. If you are hungry like this you WILL eat your man’s best friend!;)
PPL hardly ate their cow, since it’s the workforce for farming, Plus they would send their eledest son to college by selling a cow(The ultimate property)
Anyway I’d never imagined we would be discussing diet on Redrants lol
And there are ppl who eat rats, other than the scousers. Some chinese ppl roast/boil rats.
December 13th, 2007 at 23:07
EVERY country has some sort of food that another may not agree with, that is culture, food is food. so i dont see why there has to be so much fuss over it, when you are a child you eat what you are given and so it is normal for you. The word NORMAL, is just what you think, there is not really a given meaning.
December 14th, 2007 at 0:34
If you are not aware, three days ago a prominent National Football League player by the name of Michael Vick got sentenced to 23 months in jail because he funded and ran a dog fighting ring in Georgia. Among the charges was the cruelty and slaughter of dogs by him and his cronies. We here in North America do not and will not tolerate the cruelty to dogs or animals seen as household pets. The thought of eating them is abhorant and disgusting. Yes it offends me but claiming that somebody eats dog just because a small portion of his culture does is narrow minded and ignorant.
Thank you JK for contributing to this debate as a voice of reason with strong evidence was needed to add weight to my claims. My father once saw Italians eating cats and dogs near the end of World War 2 because they were starving. This was not a food of choice.
meddleuk; Your argument and well thought statement is appreciated but it was lost on me. The history of dog eating is really irrelevant to point I am making. And by the way I know for a certainty of Chinese who eat dog. It’s not just Korean’s. I know many Chinese very well and they have confirmed to me in the past that this is the case.
I am sorry for generalizing about the type of people that attend games at Old Trafford. I have never been there but I have attended a game at White Hart Lane back in 1988 and I was not impressed with what I saw. The West Ham fans were truly frightening. I’m sure there are very fine people from all races who go to these games. And if they are from all different racial backgrounds, they should know better than to sing chants that first insult Koreans before they get to the point of insulting Scousers. I’m all for insulting Scousers as they are a lower life form plain and simple. JOKE! JOKE!
And JB; sorry but I’ll pontificate all I want thanks. I do not handle others telling me what I should or shouldn’t do. I felt it was my duty to point out a comment that I felt was rude and racist. A firestorm started because of it due to cultural differences and social climates between my country and the UK. I’ll live with the results, please do so also. I put up with a lot of your preaching big brother banter, so kindly allow me to pontificate to my hearts content on something that matters to me. Since yesterday more than one of my friends has agreed with me that they find the beginning of the chant rude and distasteful. So I feel vindicated because people I know and respect see things the way I do. What you think matters little me on this matter.
NOW PLEASE LETS GET BACK TO FOOTBALL! GOD I’M SORRY FOR EVER BRINGING IT UP.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:33
I have a Chow Chow. Chows are known to be eaten in China.
I saw a movie recently where someone made a statement regarding cannibals that actually got me thinking:
He said that some cannibilistic tribe believed that if you eat the flesh of another human being, then his spirit will flow into you and his strength becomes yours. The “westerners” freaked at this and said that it does not make sense. It is just savage and silly. The “native” then responded with:
“why does this sound strange to you? You do it evey Sunday when you partake of the body and blood of Christ and believes it will give you strength.”
Now (I’m a Christian and proud of it), this is not supposed to spark a religous debate. Just because something does not agree with the way we are made to belive to be “normal”, it does not make it right or wrong. Just different. That is where true tolerance comes in.
That was the point I tried to make with my previous post.
December 14th, 2007 at 17:50
Karl; I guess I’ll avoid eating CHOW mein in the future.