Aug 22
Ronaldo Returns + Fergie’s Optimism Dips + Squad ‘Swells’
According to reports, a Manchester United player who goes by the name Cristiano Ronaldo has just returned to light training.
I was curious, so I looked up Wikipedia and did my research about this player — because, you know, it’s always good to get your facts right about lesser known players. I found out that he’s got great pace and can get past defenders with ease. He also scored 42 goals last season and played three months carrying an injury. So he must be some player.
So this some player has returned to light training and concentrated on jogging all week.
Oh.
The Sun put up pictures referring to his appearance as ‘grim’ whilst Rio Ferdinand, Wayne Rooney, John O’Shea and Louis Saha were all laughing. I mean, what training ground sees only a certain set of players laughing while a few others don’t join in the laughter? It’s a team game, where everyone laughs in unison (and turn glum in unison) at the count of three, no?
Seriously though, my only question after reading that article was, what the hell is Louis Saha doing laughing his arse off in training? What if — as opposed to regular folk — his arse actually falls off, thus ramping up our medical bills further?
Pertinent questions, one would suspect. Think about it.
Meanwhile all the optimism and positive energy that Fergie exuded last week has all but evaporated when he admitted that he was less optimistic about signing a striker.
“I’m feeling less optimistic right now. We are looking at something, but if it doesn’t come off then we will carry on as we are.”
So there you go. Fantastic news. We will have the same team that won us the double last year. Hmm… not a bad squad to have but when you think you are just one signing away from having a side that can continue to be challenging on all fronts then it’s less than comforting to see the way we have done business this summer.
We need an out and out striker who can play maybe from the game following Portsmouth, ideally. If we don’t then I would tend to think it to be a bad summer in terms of transfer business.
In better news, at least some of our players, who had gone out, are returning in one piece. Anderson will be back in the weekend, Tevez will be back after being involved in a friendly with Argentina. Ji-Sung Park is making good progress whilst Hargreaves and Giggs could make it back for training this week.
So in short, it looks like Tevez will surely make it for Pompey. I think I’ll take that. It’s a good thing our game is on Monday although we travel to Monaco for the Super Cup game against Zenit on the 29th. I would love for our lads to win that trophy, and I think it will be more an opportunity for the likes of Anderson and Nani to get their first real competitive first team action. Perhaps, Fergie might throw in the Brazilians if we do manage a couple of early goals.
As an aside, Zenit, who we will be facing in the Super Cup, will be without Arshavin to avoid risking injury so that he could move to Spurs. Could that lead them to selling Berbatov to us?
Hope springs eternal.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v QPR: Preview
- Deadline Day Looms…
- Easter Island Head’s NYC Visit | Ronaldo Goes Top | Fergie’s Double/Treble Aim
- West Ham v Man Utd: Preview
- John Terry, AIG and Fergie’s Rant on Hackett
Tags: Daily Roundup
August 22nd, 2008 at 17:38
There is only one plater worth the amount of money we are willing to pay for Dimitar Berbatov and it is Karim Benzema.
I believe he would suit Rooney’s playing style quite well.
Rooney ofcourse has his own problems. I think he tries almost too hard.
He has struggled to reach the heights (it pains me to say it but) Ronaldo has.
Why are no clubs out there trying to prise Wayne Rooney away from Manchester United? An interesting question?!
August 22nd, 2008 at 17:49
@AlphaRS: he’s english, thats why, also because he’s pretty crap right now. Something i have realized people, is that, fast forward early this season, when rooney came back from injury, i believe rooney played 2 internationals, scoring a goal in each game, then from that point, rooney scored in every single game, including coming of the bench in the FA match against villa, until he got injured again. if rooney can that form that he had at the beginning of the season, he could become what he onve was, the best player in the world. we could of won everything last season if rooney never got that injury, ironically, it was a training ground injury. Hopefully, rooney can find that brief, yet great form again.
August 22nd, 2008 at 17:52
@AlphaRS: That’s not an interesting question, but maybe rhetorical! It’s like saying, why has no one tried to prise Messi from Barcelona or Raul from R Madrid? It’s because these players are like the team mascots and it’s highly unlikely to happen. And if it ever does, it will be for insane amount of money or when such player has little more to offer the team.
With regards to the Benzema issue, I reckon with Tottenham refusing to lower the price, Fergie might be tempted to stick with what we’ve got - Rooney, Tevez, Campbell, Saha, Manucho - for the time being and use that money to capture Benzema nxt season. If he does that, I hope he gets a young, promising but ready-to-play winger as cover and finally replacement for giggsy’s spot in our wing quartet(ronnie, nani, giggs, park).
August 22nd, 2008 at 17:56
@dan(u-ol):
I don’t think anybody has ever been interested in signing Wayne Rooney after he was signed by SAF. English players have gone abroad but they are few and far between. Beckham, Woodgate, McManaman, Gascoigne, Platt, and Ince just off the top of me head.
I’m gonna get alot of stick for this but I think English players lack mental toughness.
Rooney was supposed to be the next big star for England. But he can’t score to save his life. He did have some good form last season but at his age he should be able to come back from any injury.
I just think when I have seen him play up front for club and country it just proves he is not a natural born finisher (more trouble!).
August 22nd, 2008 at 17:59
@Gabriel:
I personally think that nobody actually believe Rooney is that good a player. Yes he tries hard and his heart is in the right place but he just doesn’t do the business for me.
I also just don’t think Berbatov is worth the money or the hassle.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:07
I really hope something in the transfer market happens soon. At this point it seems that Tottenham have won the ‘Berbatov war’
but am keeping fingers crossed.
If Saha is laughing his ass off in trainning then i safely assume that his injuries have taken the back seat(for the moment) and could probably feature in that supercup game. This Sunday I will pray to God to specifically keep that damn knee in check
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:10
@AlphaRS: I am impressed at your footbaling mind. You really know your football.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:12
@AlphaRS: You personally don’t think what?? Pele said he was good, Lippi said he was good, everyone in England knows he’s good. What are you on about? just because a player fails to live up to the unrealistic expectations of the disillusioned english media doesn’t mean he’s shit. Look at his performances for the past four seasons, they’ve risen everytime.
I really feel bad for rooney, what more do they want from this guy? he played less games than Tevez last season, yet got similar goal/assist stats. He plays out of position, sacrificies his chances for Ronaldo and co, yet he is shit!! Please tell me what you want Rooney to acheive this season, so you can finally say he is a good enough player?
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:13
pls is it true that manucho got his work permit???????????????????????
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:14
@R…:
Thanks for the sarcasm!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:16
Yes Yes Manucho has a work permit.Check Wikipedia. Wohoooooooooo!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:18
People can say that we had a bad summer with regards to transfers but I hardly consider Rodrigo, Fabio and Rafael bad deals.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:18
@Gabriel:
I didn’t once say Rooney was shit.
I’m not laying in to the guy. Hell my United shirt has his name on it!
You are right he has done all those things for Manchester United.
For me he missed far too many one on one’s with the keeper.
He was added to the squad by SAF to score goals in my opinion and I just odn’t think he scores enough of the chances when he get’s them.
I also think he spends far too much time arguing with the referee and players around him. Even Pele said that!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:19
@Nelson Otieno: Fergie said saha’s problems are with his hamstrings. That means, he’s got excess muscle on the front of his thighs compared to the back and when he performs, the risks of the muscles at the back getting injured are high. Ironic though, cuz it’s probably those excess muscles that give him that explosive pace, jump and balance.
Fergie also said they’re finally comin to terms with how to improve the situation, so I think it might be okay. Hopefully, he can come back mentally strong because those kind of injuries are mentally destabilising, as you cannot do anything to prevent them cuz that’s just the way ur built. All he has to do is exert those muscles too much and there’s a chance it might get damaged, poor guy. Hopefully, the treatment works and we’ll see the saha we all love to watch!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:25
Hmm Some good news( for me at least)
. Regardless of experience I think Manucho will do well for us. He’s got height and a very lethal strike in that left foot of his(remember the Eygpt game)and from the way I see it he can play as lone striker well. With a master like fergie as his mentor i am very optimistic. If we got rid of that south american curse i.e. flops (veron, kleberson)then………….
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:26
@Gabriel: 30+ goals and a more selfish attitude.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:26
It seems that Manucho and Saha are similar as players so I think one of them should parter Tevez or, preferably, Rooney. I don’t think Rooney and Tevez are that effective together and think that they would play better with a different type of striker.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:26
Berbatov was worth the hassle if we ultimately fail to get Manucho’s permit. And it looks like we are not gonna get any joy on either issue. It looks like joy will be hard to find this season. Why? Well,the curse of the CL winners. Look at the past winners and their form the next season. We certainly stretched ourselves last season and a lot will be required from the likes of Rooney and esp Tevez. Ive no doubts about the latter but hopefully Rooney has now realised that he was not primarily employed as a utility midfielder. I have hope 4 him this season
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:26
Fuck me manucho is not the answer, he is 25 and has never played in any major league and the Greek league is a joke, he is at best a squad player, Fergie has admitted that we have needed a striker for well over a season, so where is he? We needed earlier this summer to have had a plan B or C. Now clubs are aware of our need and will exploit that, we need a new forward and if we don’t get one it’s Chelsea’s title.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:29
@AlphaRS: like you said Fergie got him to score goals, yet Fergie consistently played him out of position many times. How is he supposed to be consistently scoring goals when he is not playing his natural position? Gladly, Fergie has addressed this and promised to play Rooney in the position that will see him increase his productivity; maybe we can reserve further comment till we see him play in his right position for a season, eh?
Tevez played more games than rooney last season,even more in his preferred position, yet got similar stats to rooney; why is no one criticising him for not scoring enough goals?
The media always look to tear good players apart, they’ve done it with all their English stars, please don’t hop on and make Rooney the nxt Michael Owen.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:36
@Gabriel.
that was an educative comment. I love your optimism. I just hope that he stays fit for longer periods this season
ps: how do people put links. html way( a href……)or what
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:36
Alpha- I think Rooney’s problem is that he is selfless and a little too hyper active. He is 2nd to Fabregas ito assists and that shows what he does. I think he is an excellent playmaking forward. Think Totti. Its just that he should concentrate on the forward play more. I think he should try to be more selfish and he will score more. And thats his only weakness. Not failing to score but not applying himself where he would be more dangerous. Give him this season. I have hope because saf has almost promised 2 play him in the hole and rooney has said he realises the need to concentrate on attack.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:37
@Gabriel: Fergie has not addressed any problem with playing rooney out of position at all. Fergie maintains that rooney can play either play up top or dropping off another forward. This is the same stance he had at the start of last season and there’s more chance rooney will play in the same position he did last year.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:37
@Gabriel:
I understand what you are saying but he just doesn’t score enough when he is one on one with the keeper. I would be interested in seeing his shots per goal ratio. That would remove the factor of him playing out of position. I don’t think it will be as high as it should be.
There is nothing more I would want than Wayne Rooney being played up front in his natural position but when he has I don’t think he scores enough.
I am not criticising Rooney I am just passing my opinion.
I haven’t criticized Tevez because I didn’t ever think that he was put in to the squad to be an out and out striker. More of a support striker.
The media want Manchester United and their players to capitulate. They are pro london teams. I mean look at the Champions League final. I think skysports were more concerned with Terry crying than Manchester United winning the Champions League final. That is media terrorism to me!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:39
@tevez: lol 30+ goals!! How many other ’supporting strikers’ in the world have reached that target?
With regards to the selfish thing, I concur, but as Fergie said, being unselfish is not a bad trait to have (Ronaldo isn’t complaining with rooney supplying the assists) and rooney knows it and is ready to change, so that’s good enuff for me.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:41
@Jay wire:
Agreed.
He is the complete player but needs to concentrate on scoring goals when he gets the chances.
That is the only point I am trying to make. I just want Rooney to fulfill his potential and be one of the best players in the world beacuse by God we need him to score goals for us this season to give us a chance of keeping the Double at OT.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:42
Nelson-By all means could u pliz post the Manucho link. I have been waiting for this guy since December and i have repeatedly advocated for him. That is news that i have been waiting for all summer
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:45
Alpha- I totally understood u the first time and u voice a genuine concern ito goal getting.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:46
@Gabriel:
Have a look at Rooney’s Champions League debut when he scored that hatrick against Fenerbache. It’s on YouTube under Wayne Rooney Debut.
That is the Wayne Rooney I want to see again.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:48
Manucho is in the squad traveling to Fratton Park!!!!!!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:50
@tevez: Fergie has addressed it, and he said he would play him in the hole more often:
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/the-tide-turns-time-to-praise-rooney-following-fergies-sacrificing/
there’s more links but i can’t paste more than one as the post won’t show up if i did.
Hopefully, Fergie will be true to his word, and all this unwarranted criticsm of argueably United’s most influential player will cease.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:51
@ jaywire
I dont know how to do the link thing on this site. someone educate me .
let me do it the long way. Go to wikipedia and type ‘manucho’ and in the article check at the bottom just before the Panathinaikos headline
its there.
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:55
@AlphaRS: yeah, me too. Hopefully, with Pele, Capello and Fergie telling him to be more selfish and develop a tunnel-vision for the goal, he might heed and get to scoring plenty more goals. Although, if he reached the 30+ amount @tevez: was proposing, i’d be ecstatic!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 18:57
According to this website Manucho and Anderson are both in the squad for Monday’s match @ Fratton Park!
http://www.premiershiplatest.com/news/portsmouth-v-manchester-united-premiersh-5513276.html
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:07
Wikipedia says that it has been confirmed by Utd and his squad number is 26 but there’s nothing on the website!
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:10
@Krishnan: Did you check out the website I posted about Manucho being on the squad list? I wonder if this was Fergies big surprise after all?
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:12
What the hell does this mean!!!!!!!!!!!!?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_4031590,00.html
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:13
@RichmondRed: I did but if he has been handed over a squad number, shouldn’t it be on the website?
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:15
@Krishnan: That is true. I don’t know what to make of it mate. United has been hush, hush about everything this summer so I would not be surprised to see him get off the bus against Harry’s team.
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:19
@ Krishnan
Its there. just before the panathinaikos headline. That being said they havent put a citation yet
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:21
Uh oh. I’m hearing reports that Saha’s arse actually did fell off.
I’m glad Manucho got his work permit. Maybe he’ll get some burn in the Super Cup. I hope Possebon/DSx2 get burn too.
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:23
@Gabriel: At no point does fergie indicate he will play rooney in the hole more often.
‘I think his best position is through the middle, either a front role or tucking in just behind.’
He doesn’t feel he made a mistake in terms of where to play rooney. When fergie talks about moving him around too much, he means in terms of accomodating him in a wide position for tactics, injuries, etc. at certain times in the season and how it was unfortunate this happened at a time where rooney may have went on a scoring run. When he felt he could, fergie played rooney up top last season in a striker role and he has in no way came out and said it was a mistake to do that or that he will do differently this year. With tevez in the team and berbatov maybe coming in, i expect rooney to once again be employed in the main striker role.
I also do feel he can score 30+ goals in a season but only if he stays fit and plays in a main striker role. If this happens, i can see him being a prolific scorer.
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:36
@Nelson Otieno: Type a word/phrase, say, “Click here”, for example. Click on the “>>” tab just above the comment box. Highlight “Click here” with your mouse and click on the Link button. A pop up will tell you to enter the url.
Enter it and you are done. Here’s an example of a link: Red Rants.
It’s really that simple. If you want bold or italics, then you highlight words and click on Strong or em
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:38
@tevez: That’s what I’m saying mate, Fergie indicates that rooney will play less games in a wide position, rather he will play more thru the middle, either as a front man or tucked behind the main striker. We know Rooney can play both, but which one is he better at? I think you and everyone including Sir Alex knows the answer!!
Also, I never said Fergie indicated he made a mistake, I said he ‘addressed’ the issue of playing rooney out of position.
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:51
This was as of August 19th:
Manchester United’s Manucho, who has not been registered by the English champions for this season because he needs a British work permit, has been replaced in the squad by Portuguese-based forward Mateus, the Angolan Football Federation announced. [Source: Reuters]
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:58
@Red Ranter: So does that mean even if Manucho gets work permit, he won’t be abe to play in the first team?
August 22nd, 2008 at 19:59
here’s the link to manucho. indicates he got it today
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:00
@Stephen: well done, because a player is unknown they are automatically crap, of course, what was a manager that has won 2 CLs, 10 premier leagues and 5 FA cups doing, he’s an idiot isnt he, hasnt got a clue what he’s doing.
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:03
If his work permit is not approved, he can sign for us only in the January window. He might have to be loaned out to some other club.
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:04
@Nelson Otieno: It’s on wikipedia without a citation. So it’s not reliable. If you see it right now the line has been modified to this:
Manucho was handed the number 26 shirt for the 2008–09 season. However, it is not yet known whether his work permit application has been successful, or if he was registered with the squad number pre-emptively.
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:05
@Red Ranter: it has been approved though, even though its not on ANY website surprisingly, if you flick your TV channel to sky sports news, they say that it has been granted.
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:22
@Redranter
Yup the lines been chucked and replaced with what you have indicated.
Damn it….. The way I was happy, this is one frustrating August
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:33
@Gabriel: Rooney never played out wide much at all last season, he basically just covered that position a few times when required. Last season he played right up front, which is the position fergie seems to see his future in. Fergie said the same at the start of last season. He has never been under any illusions that rooney is not a wide man and yet he played rooney there at times last year anyway due to circumstance. Rooney will play in a wide role for us at times this season too when a situation requires it. When everyone is fit and available rooney plays as a striker, but if fergie needs to play rooney out wide to accomodate an absence, he will. My point is that this hasn’t and won’t change.
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:41
@dan(u-ol): I don’t live in the UK so I don’t get Sky. Plus I am at work
August 22nd, 2008 at 20:59
That article on manucho is really acting up funny and i got a pretty good idea on who’s been giving me(or us) false hope http://community.manutd.com/forums/p/19763/163252.aspx just look at the first person
August 22nd, 2008 at 21:30
@Nelson Otieno: mate, its on sky sports news, not the website, the tv channel, probably the most reliable sports channel/website around, along with the bbc sport homepage.
@Red Ranter: aahh yes, the dreaded time difference, what time is it anyway, over the pond? 9:30 pm over here.
August 22nd, 2008 at 21:34
and to all those, who dont believe me, OWNED!
August 22nd, 2008 at 22:02
@ dan(u-ol): Okay. let me get some sleep (its 12 AM on my side )
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:06
RR says - “I would tend to think it a bad summer in terms of transfer business!.” Funny comment, as I would tend to think it a bad summer in terms of NO TRANSFER BUSINESS. “I would in fact tend to think it has been a further example of a summer of shite!.” Yet RR, you do see the glass half full, where I see it half empty lol. Gill and Fergie seem to have royally stuffed up where United transfer striker intake is concerned.
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:19
we’re sitting here trying to get excited about manucho ’swelling’ our squad for monday whilst chelsea are close to buying robinho, have secured a deal for palm and look a little more dangerous than us atm.
alex confuses me. sometimes he splurges and sometimes he’d hold out over £2m (petty change in transfer terms). oh well…I guess he knows best. it’s just a bit frustrating with the deadline fast approaching.
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:30
@Craig Mc: Craig you are wrong. If you are being that specific then there has been transfer business. We did sell Silvestre and we did buy Davide Petrucci. That constitutes as transfer business. You either buy or sell for there to be “transfer business” per se. So since you are being pedantic about it, there has been transfer business. But whatever business has happened so far, it’s been bad. Which is what I said.
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:34
@Craig Mc: And calling it a bad summer is not seeing the glass half full. More seeing the glass for what it is.
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:51
Mmmmm - Petrucci - hardly the kind of transfer I was thinking about, that would make our summer less shite. Silvestre out - ??????? wtf RR?.
Perhaps you would like to add Jack Barmby the 14 year old to the transfer business too. Where is your head at RR?. Or perhaps it is my head, I just got home from a good liquor session with some of my Rugby supporting friends, so my head is a bit lager brain dead at the moment!.
August 22nd, 2008 at 23:55
@Red Ranter: I don’t think we’ve done bad business, we’ve only had bad press/media coverage. We’ve secured young promising players who will shine for us in the future and got rid of old, past-it ones who will block their progress; i don’t see how that’s bad business.
It’s just the press that has been coming up with all these stories that probably have no validity whatsoever. I mean, they’ve linked us to Henry, Huntelaar, Eto’o, Silva, Villa, Santa Cruz…. the list goes on. Fergie said he might probably bring in a new striker, and to be fair to him, the window is not shut yet and he might be wanting to bring in the right player; and it might or might not be Berbatov!!
Like he said, if it’s not possible to acquire the right target now, there’s the next window. I’d rather us get the right player for United *cough* Benzema *cough* later, than panic buy now and have to lose out on him later.
Honestly, the media can create so much hysteria, it’s unbelievable. They’d have you thinking it’s all doom and gloom when things are probably OK. I personally thought we needed a striker and a young winger, but if Fergie and the players says we do not, seeing they have a more in-depth view of the club as a whole, I’d like to think they are right.
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:09
Gabriel, they are NOT right?.
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:19
@Craig Mc: why do you say so?
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:21
Players available to us this season that were not the last. Raphael. Fabio. Manucho. Possebon. Petrucci. Neville. Foster.
Players out. Silvestre. Pique.
Yeah most of those players are unproven, but if they prove themselves here we have had one hell of a summer of activity. What if Raphael and Fabio flourish, and all signs to point that they will. Possebon has a season learning from Scholes, and becomes his eventual replacement. Manucho scares the shit out of defences. Foster challenges for the number 1 spot that will eventually be his.
If this happens, I’m more than willing to have a less successful season than last to ensure our long term superiority. It sure as hell beats the 5 transitional season over at le arse.
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:28
@Craig Mc: I wouldn’t say they’re right per se…afterall we could do with a striker, but its not all doom and gloom like the way the press are making it seem if we don’t sign one, mind you I’d love it if we do.
The Manucho news was on the sky sports evening news, so yeah i saw it too…
@Craig Mc: I don’t think you got what RR meant, transfers are not only about bringing in players, loaning or selling players too constitute a transfer and so your comments that there have been NO transfer business is wrong since we sold three players and loaned out two, so it might not be the transfers we’d all love to see, but yes there have been transfers, whether we buy an 8year old wonderkid or sell some light-bulb head, and i think that was RR was trying to say.
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:30
@Traverse: good point traverse, people bang on about letting the youth get a chance, but if we sign 27-yr old Berba, how are we supporting that cause?
On the other hand, we do need some experienced (not necessarily old) players striking for us, so letting campbell bear that responsibility is risky. It’s a catch-22 and that’s because the stakes are so high now; a team with title hopes can’t afford to drop random points anymore (like we did on Sunday).
As per our youth, it’s looking very bright, and i reckon they are being weened into the team perfectly.
August 23rd, 2008 at 0:43
@Red Ranter: No, you’re wrong. This isn’t the Liga where players can only be registered at certain times. Players can be registered whenever the team wants them to do so, meaning that if Manucho gets a work permit in November then he can play in November.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:29
@Craig Mc: Clearly it’s the liquor session and the lager mate. Get sober and read it again.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:58
I am getting the feeling that this is a make or break season for Rooney. I have said this before but I will say it again. It is one thing to have World Class potential, but its another thing to become truly World Class. No one can question the abilities of Rooney, he is a breathtaking talent. But for what ever reason he is having trouble turning that corner from potential to reality.
Often people compare Roonie to Ronaldo, but to me this is no comparison. I think Rooney has comparable talent, but what sets Ronaldo apart from Rooney is his dedication and drive toward the game. Ronaldo is always training and working on his game, Rooney returns from holiday 10 lbs overweight and smoking cigarettes. There is gonna come a point in Rooney’s career where his talent wont be enough to merit his place in the squad, I just hope he has the fore sight to avoid that situation and really take hold of his development.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:51
Ok why in the world is the Manucho news not all over the place. Jeez,the media fed us lies about Berbatov to united in 48hrs. Cant they at least report this issue. Those guys are a waste of cyber and other spaces.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:53
Oh and btw. Viva Manucho the new Drogba(talent wise). Im so excited
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:20
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=830491
i think united will be devastated if robinho completes his move to fucking chelski. it is official, real have agreed to let robinho go.
come on fergie sign berba or huntelaar. god damn it.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:34
Manucho definatelly has a work permit. Sir Alex said so in his press conference yesterday. It was shown on MUTV last night. He said that his metatarsel has not healed yet so he won’t be considered for the monday squad.
He also said that Anderson will travel to Portsmouth as he will be back on sunday. He also said that Hargreaves will have a fitness test on sunday as he has been training all week. Park has also been training but he will not be considered this weekend but he might be available for Zenit. Giggs is also fit for monday. I also noticed that Welbeck was named in the monday squad when it was listed on MUTV last night.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:45
Also they showed Ronaldo training on MUTV last night. Apparently he has been doing light training all week.
Incidentally, for all those interested, the whole first team squad (injuries permitting) will be training at Old Trafford from 10am BST this morning. Its going to be shown live on MUTV. You can also get tickets and go to the stadium
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:03
@John Freakin O’shea: Look at it this way. When Robinho arrives, there will be too many players in their squad for too few psoitions. Cue falling out, and general disharmony, causing a fall in match performance and results, which will prove what we have known for a long time……
Chelski are shite
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:03
Morning y’all!! Anyone know if it’s possible to watch the open training session on MUTV Online - it’s on MUTV, but I’m not sure if it is on MUTV online.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:18
Perhaps Manucho getting a permit was not meant to be big news after all. Wikipedia made a hilarious mess of it. Sky news reported it via text headlines and didnt bother with a follow up on their site. Now supposedly fergie said it on Mutv but no follow up on their site. There are just meaningless Rooney articles. Im just seeing inconsistencies here. I however believe fans should be given the courtesy of updates when something anticipated has happened. If its not true,then come out and disapprove the rumours. What a pre-season and beginning of season this has been
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:31
Oh man. Robinho. Why? The premiership? Chelsea? Im lost 4 words. One player i have always had high hopes for comes to a less appreciating league where work ethic is the sole attribute one has to have on their cv. U should have stayed in Spain. Im sorry and may clearly regret it but i wish him the best. Football should not be robbed of its talents because they have moved to the wrong league and club. 1st madrid now chelsea. He is trying hard to lose me as a fan of Manutd and Barca. Might as well join AC afterwards
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:34
Jay wire, its not a case of “supposedly” where Manucho is concerned. I saw Sir Alex with my own eyes say that Manucho now has a work permit. It was at the friday press conference
August 23rd, 2008 at 13:02
Fergie did say on MUTV to gathered reporters that United now have the work permit for Man - U - Cho. I can’t wait to see him in action!.
Hahaha Red Ranter, I am all sobered up. Those rugby lads can’t have put the booze away lol.
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:15
BBC reports that Berbatov is not in the Tottenham squad for the Sunderland game:
“I have not selected him as I do not think that he is focused enough and I do not feel that he will be good for the dressing room and the team effort,” said Ramos
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:19
i think we all know what this means!
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:19
That sucks for my fantasy football… but it might be good news for us. If Ramos cannot play him because he is spiritually elsewhere*, than, he might as well agree to sell.
* by ’spiritually elsewhere’ I mean two things:
- he is dreaming of the Bentley he will drive once he gets his 90,000 per week salary
- he can’t give a flying fish about Tottenham anymore.
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:28
@dan(u-ol): still, until he’s wearing the united no. 9 I’m disregarding all other news as bullshit
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:30
He will never wear the United no 9 because that belongs to Saha and I’ll intentionally set my own pants on fire before Fergie takes a number from one player and gives it to another. He will wear the 14 made famous by Cruijff. Or maybe Ole’s 20?
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:32
@Andrei: Strange, I don’t see this on BBC Sport online nor do I see it anywhere else. Ideally this kind of news ought to be all over the place.
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:32
@Andrei: 20 is given to Fabio
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:33
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/7578290.stm
look at 1408.
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:34
Oh wait it’s on Sky. Link
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:37
I saw on BBC Live-Commentary… probably good news, but I am not jumping up and down on my couch just yet.
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:39
Does anybody else think that “work with him at training” means that he will get a boot kicked at his head?
August 23rd, 2008 at 14:42
Also, I have some advice for Fergie: Get. Baxter. Now!
I saw the lad in last week’s game between Everton and Blackburn and he was a breath of fresh air when he came on. He might be 16, but he does play like a 20 year old. Is anybody going to watch Everton today?
August 23rd, 2008 at 15:18
Well the Berbatov news does not necessarily mean Tottenham are going to sell. Their plan maybe to keep Berbatov on the sidelines until the transfer deadline passes in the hope that once the dream move is no longer a possibility the player will focus on Tottenham again.
But I agree it does look very positive for us. Really Ronaldo should be judged less harshly because he never went to the lengths Robinho and Berbatov went to in order to force a move.
Im very pleased Manucho got the permit. I do not know how much skill or intelligence he has but from what Ive seen he has the athleticism and pace, is good in the air, and can finish. I hope he gets a few league cup games to show what he can do.
August 23rd, 2008 at 15:24
@colver: i agree. he fussed about a bit but never went so far as to undermine the club
on an unrelated note, I just got my one united membership and am feeling very club-affiliated at this point. the marketing/propaganda is working
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:09
Feels good to be back, i missed this site, loving the new layout RedRanter
I found it interesting berbatov was dropped from the spurs squad, maybe they will sell him after all, because the whole he is not “focused” excuse seems to be quite pathetic, i hope he is in the squad soon enough
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:19
I called this yesterday… Berbatov definitely told them he still wants to leave, and this is his punishment. If we make that £28 million bid they will be more than happy to boot his ass out. With Arshavin being left out of the Zenit squad, spurs then have the money to get their man with £7mil spare to put towards Pavulchenko….
Makes sense for all parties concerned…
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:38
sign Mido now!
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:40
@Liam: you don’t want his ego crowding the dressing room, trust me
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:43
what if madrid are agreeing to sell robbinho because they have been tapping up benzema and have the ok that he will come there. fuck i want that boy in red.
sunderland just went up 2-1
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:51
Fuck! Boro give away a shit goal and blow a great chance
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:58
After watching today’s game between Spuds and Sunderland I have to say, from a Spurs point of view, they’d be stupid to let Berbatov go. Any money that we might pay for him means little to Tottenham right now because he is the man they missed today the most. All play till the business end, but no one to hold the ball up or put it in. In a funny way they’re more like Arsenal.
Not that I care much about them anyway. But well done Keano’s boys.
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:58
I hate fucking Phil Thompson. GET OUT OF MY BINS.
August 23rd, 2008 at 16:58
what a load of crap ‘pool score in the 4th(borderline 5th) minute of the 3 added on. Riley was on a home run
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:01
@abood89: I don’t think his ego would be crowding the dresing room. I would be more worried about the space left on the bench if he brings his huge ass over to United.
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:02
Red Ranter, what’s happened to Grog?. Has he emigrated, or am I still drunk?.
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:06
@Craig Mc: I’m not sure if emigrated is the right word. Perhaps, taken a break? I wouldn’t know for sure.
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:23
we really should be able to beat ‘pool in the next game. They have done nothing in their 2 games that makes me see them as anything other than lucky and its killing me that they are 5 points ahead of us at this point
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:24
RedRanter - Oh okay, thanks!.
August 23rd, 2008 at 17:28
@Craig Mc: Full stop after an exclamation mark? Just curious why you do that.
(Asked this because there isn’t much else worth talking about)
August 23rd, 2008 at 18:22
@Red Ranter:
August 23rd, 2008 at 18:25
Bad punctuation on the internet, heaven help us all
August 23rd, 2008 at 18:30
@JB: Yeah I know. At least I got you to post. The era of the internets is indeed numbered
And for the record, Craig, I didn’t mean any offence. You are free to post as you were. This just came out of boredom, and fact that you do have a curious way of using punctuations.
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:15
I did post team news last week
Anyway thought I would just share a snippet I came across on the Guardian Online commentry for the Fulham-Arsenal match.
“55 mins: Murphy and Bullard are bossing it in the centre of the park. Roy Hodgson has got this team playing some lovely football, certainly when you compare it to that shambolic nonsense Lawrie Sanchez presided over. If Arsenal were stroking it around like this, you wouldn’t be able to hear for the denizens of the press box furiously rubbing themselves up and down on their laptops.”
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:30
@JB: So Scott Murray also is among the anti-Arsenal brigade eh? Interesting.
It would have been a perfect Saturday had Liverpool also dropped points.
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:30
hehe, arsenal lose to fulham!
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:35
@Red Ranter: just curious, what is it that you do? You talk some weeks about being backed up with work and others about boredom and nothing to do
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:44
RR: Don’t know if he is or not but the comment about the press did make me laugh.
August 23rd, 2008 at 19:49
@JB: haha, arsenal lose to fulham!! That’ll make match of the day all the better tonite. maybe they should hire Gary Glitter to keep the kids at arsenal on their toes (I swear, I herad it from someone
) lol
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:00
what is so entertaining about MOTD?
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:06
watching Arsenal lose to Fulham!!
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:15
@Gabriel: yeah but you would also have to witness Alan Hanson getting his cock out while talking about Liverpool greatness. God they piss me off
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:25
@Liam: I know!! why are scousers all over english sports television - Andy Gray, Phil Thompson, Alan Hansen - then there’s the ‘United haters’ - everyone else (seriously, they all do!!) - I mean, where are the United supporters or former players in english mainstream sports coverage??
I don’t mind though, cuz United always make them eat their words leaving them bitter and we’ll do the same again this season!!
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:51
Off topic but….. this is disgracefully entertaining
August 23rd, 2008 at 20:55
August 23rd, 2008 at 21:22
Let’s be fair to Hansen, if you didn’t know who he was you would swear he was a United supporter most of the time.
August 23rd, 2008 at 21:45
@Liam: It’s the weekend mate. Whatever work that I do does not involve me having to work on weekends. Although, must be said, this has been a rather quiet weekend for me.
August 23rd, 2008 at 22:18
Red Ranter, you really shouldn’t have brought that question up. It raises bad memories for me and a good number of my classmates of old school time. We had a bully of a teacher, who used to RAP our knuckles chanting punctuation, punctuation, punctuation, followed by grammar, grammar, grammar. So to piss him off, a bunch of us lads used to put exclamation AND question marks, and every other mark we could think of, and always follow them by a full stop. Old habits die hard. Besides , I still use this technique as AN ACT OF DEFIANCE, because in my sub conscious I still refuse to conform to the norm. Live with it RR!.
August 23rd, 2008 at 22:22
@Craig Mc: Good for you. Easy on the caps though.
As I said, I didn’t tell you to not post like that. Oh well… was just curious, is all.
August 23rd, 2008 at 22:59
Gus Poyet had some things to say on the Berbatov situation today. I’m not sure what it all means really. It could be that he’s really trying to get another bid out of us.
August 23rd, 2008 at 23:02
Anyone know who this youngster is?
He has apparently refused to train with his club cus he’s been denied a move to United. It was also reported on the Skysports website, but for some reason, i can’t find the link to that anymore.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:02
Jeremy Halan
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12876_4035692,00.html
August 24th, 2008 at 3:28
@Craig Mc: you interested in starting a group of rebels?.
August 24th, 2008 at 3:45
@Andrei: why?. is he starting one?. Don’t think RR will be too happy about it!.
August 24th, 2008 at 8:15
Its on BBC, we made a 25m take it or leave it bid for Barbartov. I hope Tottenham accept this one which i doubt as I think they will only part ways with him for only 28m atleast but what its tells me is SAF only has Berbartov in mind to sign but why did he had to wait this long to make the final or take it or leave it bid. I’m still really frustrated with the way things are going until I read that very news we all are waiting for.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:03
@Cocxxy: I think that piece of news is originally from NOTW
August 24th, 2008 at 9:49
is grognard in hiding lol, i would of thought that he would be jumping with joy with arsenal losing to fulham. i wish conor would come back so i have someone to argue with while grognard is away
August 24th, 2008 at 9:59
why is my othter comment awaiting moderation?
August 24th, 2008 at 12:19
ROONEY!
August 24th, 2008 at 12:29
Andrei lol, what do you mean by starting a group for rebels?. What do you want to rebel against?. I’m always in favour of a revolution, but rebelling on somebody elses blog is not the same as rebelling and being non conformist in our old school classrooms. If the bully of a teacher had us expelled from school, or suspended us, that would have been REWARD lol. Being oosted from a blog because Red Ranter might act all precious, well that’s a different matter. Wouldn’t be totally undeserved though, if we rustle up trouble. If your up for it though, I’ll think about it - hahahahahahaha - evil. Well, this blog has been altogether too quiet and worse, too NICE lately. Not many fireworks is there?. Red Ranter been slipping everybody sedatives unnoticed perhaps?.
Gabriel, don’t worry mate, Andrei is just joking - I think. It’s a wind up mate!.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:42
Alright, this, to me sounds like he doesnt even care if he’s not scoring, and it sounds like what ive known for months now, and thats rooney will never be the same player, never. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_4038389,00.html
August 24th, 2008 at 12:45
Okay, at the risk of being knife attacked by the Rooney fans, I will have a go anyway. Fergie is telling Rooney to stay up and around the penalty box, and he means OURS not the oppositions. Pea Brain Rooney has gone public, pontificating that nobody will change him. He is unselfish, a team player. Yeah right!. If Loony Rooney continues his forays all over the bloody pitch, when we need strikers to be taking pot shots at goal, then Fergie should feckin bench him. Rooney thinks he is a law unto himself. If he really is the unselfish team player he says he is, then he wouldn’t have returned to training a stone overweight, after a drinking, smoking and who knows what else poisoning of a summer break. He would definately become more of a team player, by doing what Fergie says, and truly help the team by being where he was bloody well bought to play, as a striker. I think he is making excuses, because he is not finding the net as often as he should be. So he becomes a self styled hero by cavalry charging all over the place, other than where he should be, and where the team need him to be. He is not meant to SAVE us in defence and MF, but by scoring goals. He can be a thick scouse tosser at times.
August 24th, 2008 at 13:01
Dan(u)ol, that article confirms one definate thing for me. Rooney hasn’t got enough confidence in his own ability to score goals when Ronnie is absent, and with Carlos as a partner on the field. That’s why he’s crying for another striker to be brought in. Those of us who have eyes, and are not afraid to speak up, have agreed with that sentiment for long ages!. We haven’t got confidence that if Ronnie or Carlos is absent for any length of time, that we can RELY on Rooney to get us the goals we need. Even more so, Rooney is openly saying, that he doesn’t want the responsibility of HAVING to score the goals. Yeah you Roon fans, live with it. The truth hurts.
August 24th, 2008 at 13:21
I think you lot need to remember Rooney is not a Van Nistelrooy, Torres or Drogba and never will be. Yes he is a striker but will never be this poacher I think you all expect him to be and will never be a 30 goals a season player, thats not his game. Tevez will never he that player either so I wonder how long it will be til your all get on his back too
August 24th, 2008 at 13:44
@Craig Mc: @Craig Mc: I think you misunderstood those comments from Rooney. He is merely echoing the need for a new striker that will strengthen the team and allow the strikers to be spread out and systems changed for certain matches. Sir Alex knows this, the players know this and I’m sure you know this. If anything, he also declared, “But if that forward does not come in, I am sure we can deal with it”. That doesn’t sound like a man scared of taking the burden!!.
The fact of the matter is Rooney knows where he plays best, so does the Manager and everyone else; he is a Supporting Striker. Sir Alex bought him to play as one, just cause he scored a hat-trick on his debut, people assumed he was meant to be a No.9. However, he can play as an out and out striker too, but his natural abilities such as his unselfishness, passing/intricate link-up play and bullishness do not perfectly suit that position. If he said he could do it and then didn’t live up to the expectations of a No.9, then he would be letting the team down more. He merely knows his strengths and he’s asking to let the manager play him accordingly.
This season, hopefully with all the words of wisdom coming from such luminaries like Pele, Capello and Sir Alex, maybe Rooney will try and develop that tunnel vision for goal and leave the rest to the midfield. Actually, the only reason he got so used to doing that is cause we had someone else who was bangin in the goals last two seasons; Ronaldo. This season should be different and Rooney knowing he is more of a goal provider than goal-scorer (check last years assist stats), is merely asking for a player he can confidently give these assits to score the goals United need.
Finally, I don’t think it’s a lack of confidence, he’s just saying what’s best for the team. He can still play up front if he wanted, “Carlos likes to drop behind a main striker, which is probably his best position, so maybe I would have to stay up a bit more. I would have no problem with that” and is even willing to sacrifice his preferred position for Carlos to thrive in the chance we don’t get a striker. However, as the article reads, he knows he will better serve the team as a SS and he’s merely stating the obvious, we need an Out and Out striker.
August 24th, 2008 at 13:46
Ryan, thing is mate, Tevez is a player who gets into the box at the times we need a vital goal, and his persistence in getting in there, has payed off for us with a few important goals, that helped us win the PL. If as you say, Rooney is not to be a regular goalscorer, then we need to bring in more than one new striker. When we won the treble, we had four strikers who could get into the box, and score the goals, in any permatation. That’s what we need, and if Rooney wants to be a box to box player, then we need to replace him in the striker department. Maybe he should replace Scolesy in the near future.
August 24th, 2008 at 13:52
@Ryan: of course we dont expect 30 goals a season from him, but we expect far better from a player that was considered to be the best in the world, and was once thought to be a player that would be in the same as maradaona and pele. he scored 17 goals this season, and if it wasnt for his early season form, it would been something along the lines f 12-14 goals for a season. its nothing about him being prolific, but he can score far more goals then he did last season, and he should be playing better then he is. And on second thought, i see no reason at all why rooney shouldnt get 30+goals a season apart from rooney, ronaldo, a winger, can 42 goals in a season, so why cant rooney, a striker, get bloody half of that at least! We spent bloody 30million for him, and 12million on ronaldo, and look whats happend, ronaldo is worth more then 3x the amount we bought him for, and rooney is probably worth half of what we bought him for.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:12
Gabriel, I hear you mate, but I see it differently. Please notice what Wayne said in the interview. “If that striker doesn’t come in WE will deal with it.” Notice he didn’t say that HE would take more responsibility for it, but that WE tells me a lot Gabriel. Once a player gets it into his mindset, that somebody else needs to come in and have the main goalscoring responsibility when Ronnie is out, then Rooney subconsciously dismisses himself from getting the goals, even the odd goal a game we need.That is basic psychology mate, to anyone who has studied it. Thing is though Gabriel, that isn’t the game Rooney had when he first joined us. He had a hunger for scoring goals from both outside and inside the box. He wasn’t trying to be the Jack of all players he is wanting to be now. He has to TRUST the defenders to do their job, without him, and the midfield also. It takes DISCIPLINE for someone to stay up in their own half, and be the one who is willing to stay there for the opportunity to score goals, or DIE trying. We all who are not in denial know Rooney lacks discipline. What about keeping the shape of the team, in whatever formation Fergie has decided to play?. You thought about that Gabriel?.
This is my main complaint about Rooney. Not that I demand he scores 30+ goals a season, but that he keepe himself in a position where he could get us at least one when we need it. He is not going to do that in the oppositions half, and we have few other choices for the up the field position at the moment. Besides, it is time he realised that our defence is great, and doesn’t need him maurauding around at the corner flags of the opposition half, but at our own half. Discipline is way too much to expect from Rooney I think.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:12
@dan(u-ol): That is where all these misunderstanding is coming from, Ronaldo’s amazing 42-goal haul last year. First of all, that is a totally amazing feat for a winger and has never been acheived in recent football history, but also recognise the fact that our game was pretty much built around Ronaldo, with Rooney most times having to play out of position or out wide to accomodate him. Also, Rooney was out for 1/3 of our season, yet got an identical goal tally to Tevez who played more, also more assists than anyone else in the team (2nd in the prem). So the fact you hold rooney accountable to that kind of goal tally given the circumstances is a bit unfair.
This season, with Alex Ferguson hopefully deciding to consistently play Rooney in his preferred position - Supporting striker - we would see more goal-oriented play from him. However, he is not an out-and-out striker, why do people expect him to plant 30+ goals? You don’t ask that of Tevez or Totti? Why Rooney?
Ronaldo did what he did last season, because he was the focal point of our attack. This year, things will change; we will have more of a stable 4-4-2 and Rooney will regularly play in the hole, hence his call for an accomplished No.9 that he can provide assists to.
As per the price, Ronaldo was relatively unknown, foreign and unaccomplished on the big stage, that’s why he was at that price. rooney on the other hand, came off the back of a tremendous Euro’s campaign and he was known, accomplished on the big stage and more so English, what did you expect the fee was going to be?
August 24th, 2008 at 14:14
Woo, Go Dan(u)ol.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:19
@Gabriel: he hasnt got an identical goal tally to tevez, tevez has 19, rooney has 17, and about 5 or 6 of those goals came from early season form, form that he never got back.
also, rooney played of campbell last match, he played the same way, he played of defoe and heskey last england match, he played the same way, he just said today, im going to play the same way.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:28
Gabriel, Wayne could have scored at least ten more goals if he hadn’t missed all the simple One on One chances he had against the goalkeeper. Why did he miss those many, many chances he had?. I believe it was because he gets knackered from all the mileage he acrues running about endlessly in areas of the field he has no right to be in.
As for Tevez?. You mean the Tev who had no summer break or rest at all, but came to us dog tired from the need of a holiday break from football. Also it was Tevez first season with us, and he needed time to bed in and get used to our ways, as opposed to West Ham’s. I mean he scored almost every match at the latter end of season for the Hammers to keep them in the prem, including the one against us at OT. Like I said, and Fergie said, Tevez has the knack of getting the goals when really needed.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:35
@dan(u-ol): so because he got it from early season form, doesn’t count?
besides, he got injured twice during the season, hence had to try and regain form twice plus being played out of position, so I don’t know what you expect!.
Of course he might still play the same way, he’s used to it. Gradually, he will change and adapt his play, it can’t happen oernight. In that interview, he is saying he won’t lose his determination and hunger to win, “I don’t think I will ever lose my determination,” said Rooney. “It is something I have always had. If we are not winning I get frustrated. I don’t like losing. If you are telling me that is wrong I won’t believe you. I am a team player.”
The boy obviously is going to develop that tunnel vision for goal, but he has so far gone accustomed to his unselfish play and Fergie took some responsibility for that and offered to play him in his preferred position from now on, so hopefully, during this season we can expect a more goal oriented Rooney.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:41
so you think if rooney never had that esrly season form but never got injured, he woudld of got the same goal tally?
August 24th, 2008 at 14:47
@dan(u-ol): Also rooney got 18 goals, 12 in the premiership from 27 games and 13 assists in the premiership alone. That shows his immense contribution to the team even with limited presence.
Like I said earlier, our attack focal point is going to change this season with Ronnie out for so long and that’s why Fergie has said he will play Rooney in a preferred position for him. So let’s wait for him to settle into that position before we tear him down for having some hunger and determination for our team winning.
The fact that rooney was missing in 4 of the 5 games we lost last season, with him scoring the equaliser and comin off in the 2nd half of the 5th game, is no coincidence.
August 24th, 2008 at 14:54
@dan(u-ol): If Rooney hadn’t got injured, he would have sustained that early season form and scored plenty more goals!. However, that’s speculation, cuz there’s no concrete way of knowing he would have, but it is reasonable to say so!.
August 24th, 2008 at 15:10
@Gabriel: ronney got that form from coming back from an injury remember, he was very ineffective in that reading game for the first half.
August 24th, 2008 at 15:11
@Gabriel: and didnt you say rooney could never be prolific
August 24th, 2008 at 15:19
@dan(u-ol): I didn’t say he could never be prolific, I said people shouldn’t (always) expect him to score 30+ goals because he is not an out-and-out striker, plus his game doesn’t focus solely on goals (his assist ratio last term will atone to that).
August 24th, 2008 at 15:21
chelsea where hardly world beaters today…
August 24th, 2008 at 15:32
Watchin Chelseas’ match and Liverpools’ yesterday just proves the fact that top quality players can win matches. Today, just like yesterday, there was nothing to choose between both teams, but those top players came up with the goods; Gerrard, Deco. That’s what will keep these kind of teams winning and in the top four. Thankfully, we’e got our top players too and come monday, we’ll destroy Portsmouth at Fratton park!!!.
August 24th, 2008 at 15:36
I think that the problem with Rooney in the second half of last season was the fact that that Tevez played a lot less games from the start. Rooney is usually the guy setting up guys to score but Tevez kind of took on that role at the beginning of the season which allowed Rooney to push forwards a lot more. However when Rooney got injured the whole team had to change style and that became more dependent on Ronaldo. When Rooney came back he felt that he had to compare to Ronaldo in both style and substance and started trying crappy little chips and Hollywood type of general play instead of the shoot on sight method that he used to use. He started to think about his shots instead of using instinct which led to him giving the keeper enough time to shut down the shots
August 24th, 2008 at 16:44
Mmm Dan you jumped down my throat about criticising Fergie about the Manucho but you can criticise him about picking Rooney whom he obviously has a lot of belief in a bit hypocritical?
August 24th, 2008 at 17:00
@Stephen: first of, when did i ‘jump down your throat’? second, what, am i not allowed to criticize you? thats just stupid and not hypocritical at all, its called a difference of opinion gosh, do you even know what a hypocrite is? because i bet that if i look at all your comments since joining this site, you would be considered a hypocrite, to bad i dont care about what you think enough to do that i guess. I can praise and question anyone and anything i like about this, an im open to different opinions, thats the whole point of this site, to rant and debate about what and who we want. its not hypocritical at all, its a difference of opinion and if you dont like my opinion on the rooney subject, its quite simple, when you see the name dan(u-ol) dont bloody read it.
August 24th, 2008 at 17:13
Dan, turn it in like all people on this site I respect your views so no need to say you don’t care what I have to say because as you say this is a rant site. I put a question mark next to it because I was interested in your view about Rooney, personally he is 22 and will mature so no need mate sorry if you took it the wrong way, ps Tevez is in my humble opinion the main number 10 for us but give Rooney a break he is young.
August 24th, 2008 at 17:35
Wayne says “if we are not winning, I get frustrated.” I say, “No Wayne, you don’t just get frustrated, you become a dirty bastard. You then get a collection of yellow cards, or are very lucky not to get cards when you should have got them. You need to stop dishing it out when you get frustrated, if like you say, you are unselfish, and have the teams best interests at heart.”
August 24th, 2008 at 17:44
@Craig Mc: Well Craig Mc, anymore issues you have with Rooney?. You might as well air them out now!.
Just cause we are all painstakingly aware of the need for a primary goal scorer now that Ronaldo is injured doesn’t mean we should unduly slate our primary goal provider, Rooney!. Rooney brings out the best in all our players, either by assists or team morale. Again, the fact that we lost everytime he wasn’t present is testament to the fact that he is argueably Manchester United’s most influential player!.
August 24th, 2008 at 18:02
@Gabriel: no, 5 out of the 6 games we lost last season rooney wasnt present, not all of them. Alright, i want to know what partnership you would prefer, tevez(in his form right now) and berbatov, or rooney(in his form right now) and berbatov?
August 24th, 2008 at 18:29
@dan(u-ol): yeah, i omitted the FA cup
Probably because I chose to forget that match ever happened!. 
As per the question, it is close, but I would go with Tevez, purely based on pre-season form (and Rooney’s lack of pre-season appearances). However, form is temporary, while class is permanent. If the question was, ‘who would you rather, Rooney or Tevez to partner Berbatov?’ My answer will be Rooney everytime. The guy just produces more for the team, and if we get a N0.9, Rooney will be the perfect compliment to him in attack.
Something you would want to note: for all of Tevez’s great pre-season form, he has only managed one goal in the numerous games he played!.
August 24th, 2008 at 18:49
Gabriel, United won 3-0 at Fulham, and Rooney and Ronnie only came on for the last 15 - 20 minutes. So we would have won that game without him. We also won another game without him, because Fergie said on MUTV, “well that gets rid of the media myth that we can only win when Rooney plays.”
Now, let me see, is there anything else I would like to say about Rooney, NO thanks, I think I covered it all. The points I have made are true, and ALL of them have been made by Fergie himself and that not too recently. I just happen to agree with him. Forgive me if I have hurt your feelings, by the colourful way I have expressed these points of view.
August 24th, 2008 at 18:56
Gabriel, you don’t think Apache Tev is class?. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan wouldn’t agree with you, they have said they would take him in a heartbeat. Chelsea, L’Pool and Arsenal would too. I believe he oozes class, and he would be one of the first names on my team sheet. You think Rooney is the biggest influence on our team winning, but I think that is down to our fantastic defenders, solid as a rock. But I know you love Rooney, so I will leave it there. Each to his own. I love the Roon too, but I am not blind to the things about him I don’t like, and neither is Fergie it seems.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:08
@Craig Mc: I never said we only win when Rooney is playing!. I said we mostly lose when he’s not!. Big difference!. and it is supported by fact too!.
The points you made are not similar to Fergie’s, this what Fergie said on Rooney’s willingness to take the back seat and sacrifice himself for the sake of our club,
“I have to take a bit of responsibility for it,” Fergie said. “He’s sacrificed himself and never complained about it, which says a lot for the lad. He will score goals. He scored a couple against Aston Villa last season after not scoring for seven games and I thought that would have catapulted him into a good run, but we kept using him in different positions. We need to define his role better. I think his best position is through the middle, either a front role or tucking in just behind. He can play either role very well. He is aggressive, has two feet, good pace, he has the courage to get in the box. It’s great credit to the lad that he never complains. Some players know what their best position is and they don’t want to challenge themselves in any other one, but Wayne would play centre half [if he was asked to].”
Now, I don’t know what you read into that, but all I read here is Fergie acknowledging the fact that Rooney has been played out of position (and hasn’t complained about it) many a times and that has decreased his goal output. Fergie also goes on to take responsibility for that and promisises to play him in his prefered, more-defined role this season. Nowhere in that statement does it say Rooney is performing badly or has failed to live up to potential!.
If anything Fergie complimented his unselfish nature, saying,
“I’ve no problems with Rooney. It (being unselfish) is maybe not the biggest crime to have in your life as a footballer”
Now, where Fergie has criticised Rooney, maybe you can point it out to me!.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:09
i agree with you craig completely, people rate rooney because of his form from the past, instead of the present, and in the present, tevez is far, far better. Rooney is hardly class, class is when you have first touch of an angel, when you produce moments of magic that will make you think, ‘hang on, how the hell did he do that’, that is what class is, rooney does not have that type of class. Even a bloody championship striker can produce the class im talking about, just look at fullers goal for stoke yesterday, that is what i believe class is, im gonna look for that goal now just to show you.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:15
I did quite detailed analysis two or three times last season looking at Rooney’s stats and overall performances when he was in/out of the team. Of course stats can lie to you but the difference in the team when Rooney was missing was stark. As for the comparison in goals tallys with Tevez, Rooney had a better goals to minute ratio, more assists and more chances created in less playing time than Tevez.
He may have his faults but I would not bench him. Tevez, for all the praise received, hardly resembles a proflic goal scorer now does he?
Craig: Do you have actual quotes on Madrid, Barca and Inter wanting him or just media tittle tattle? Based on last seasons form overall he would be one of the last names on the team sheet, not the first.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:16
http://goal1.tk/ scroll down to the 23.8.08 and look for the stoke villa game, then look at the 2nd half.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:20
@JB: i have proved before that tevez can be prolific, look at his records clearly and you’ll see he is. he hasnt been prolific since 2004 because he has never had a rest from football. And tevez was set to go to inter milan the summer we got him by the way, if you didnt know, the deal fell through when tevez changed his mind about leaving england, and barca also want tevez.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:20
Rooney and Berbatov would be much better than Tevez and Berbatov in my eyes. Tevez is good, but he needs to be up front with two wingers like Ronaldo on each side. In a 4-5-1, Tevez is the man, but if you want somebody to play off a striker in a 4-4-1-1 formation, than Rooney takes centre stage. Tevez is a good SS, but Rooney is an amazing SS.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:20
@Craig Mc: I never said Tevez is not class!. I said Form is temporary, while Class is permanent!. This was because someone asked me to choose a player based on form!.
Both players have lots of class, but I would have a Rooney on my team sheet before a Tevez. Besides, it’s not cuz I love Rooney, it’s just fact!. He contributed more to the team last season compared to his appearances. The thing which grinds my gears with Rooney critics is that he has improved every season he has been at United
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/back-off-pele-proof-that-rooney-gets-better-every-season/
but because there is this massive but unfair expectation level placed on him by the media and fans plus Ronaldo’s incredible feat last season, people have decided to citicise him for performing better in his overall game appreciation. Look at the stats in that link and it shows it!.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:25
Dan: But I believe you just told us people are living in the past with Rooney. Why should I give a rat’s ass about Tevez’s form in 2004? He may improve with a rest but I have seen nothing last year or in pre season to suggest he will be prolific.
Fair point on Inter, but the only link I’ve seen to Barca is by Tribalfootball, which says it all really.
August 24th, 2008 at 19:44
@JB: yes i did, but tevez, even though he hasnt had a break in 4 years until this summer, still plays pretty well all things considerd, he plays as a second striker, rooney does not.
@Andrei: This is what i mean from judging from the past!, rooney wasnt ‘amazing‘ last week when he played of campbell was he? he played how he’s been playing for the last 4 years, all over the place apart from the postion we bought him for!
August 24th, 2008 at 19:44
@JB: Forget it mate, Rooney is just being made a scapegoat for United’s recent limp performances (both on and off the pitch). While I don’t like to compare United players with each other, i’ll play devil’s advocate here; I’ll ask all the Rooney critics, Tevez and Rooney have each played in one significant match this season, in the portsmouth match, what did Tevez do or show (in productivity) that is more extraordinary than Rooney’s performance in the Newcastle match? (and i’ll even ignore Rooney’s lack of fitness due to a virus)
Also, during all the 8 or so pre-season games tevez featured heavily in, he only managed 1 goal!. Rooney featured in less and got a goal and an assist!. I just don’t understand where this criticsm is coming from?.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:04
@dan(u-ol): Rooney was not bought to be a Centre Forward, we had Ruud van Nistelrooy and Louis Saha already as CF’s when we got Rooney. Rooney was bought to be a Supporting striker because of his general team play appreciation, tenacity and ability to create chances for others. Just because on is debut, he scored a hat-trick, people thereon expected him to become a goal-machine!.
Moreover, for the past few seasons, Rooney has been consistently played out of position - this was confirmed by Sir Alex - and has obviously gotten used to diverting his full attention from goal (yet he still managed to increase his goal-to-game ratio every season). This is no fault of his, you adapt to where you play, in fact, it is that versatility that allows him to play almost anywhere that is causing all this criticsm. If Sir Alex stays true to his word and plays Rooney consistently in his preferred position (SS), then he will adapt again like he always does and you will see his goal return will increase!.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:08
JB - Wooo the JB legend is back. Where the feck have you been mate?.
Regards Tev, I have friends in Spain, one of whom has contact with insiders from Barca. Apparently, when Tev was talking recently about Ronaldo and Madrid, Barca were interested in Tev & his statements to be interested in Spain one day. R. Madrid also said they would go in for him IF he wanted to go to Spain. If my friend has inside contacts, I believe he is giving the correct info. As Dan(u) ol says, Inter were after Tev before he came to us. You mat not have seen anything to cheer in Tev in the last couple of seasons JB, but I don’t understand how. Like I said though, each to his own my good mate!. The Apache is a combatant, and he does get vital goals at vital times. That is not down to luck JB.
Gabriel, I don’t know if you have MUTV, where you hear from Fergie’s mouth direct. But I didn’t say that Rooney wasn’t a good player. I was just pointing out his faults in his game. Faults which Fergie does agree with.
1. That he chases the ball too much all over the pitch, because he is supposedly an unselfish player. Fergie says that is NOT where he wants Rooney.
2. Rooney was bought as a STRIKER that could get important goals. He was bought on United players recommendation, that they couldn’t deal with him when playing against Everton, in that important opponents part of the pitch, that we call the home teams box area. I think he has deteriorated in this important area of the pitch. Please don’t tell me he hasn’t had opportunity after opportunity to score more goals, especially one on one with the GK chances. I don’t expect him to score every one, but feck me, he should have scored some which were easier to score than miss. Fergie takes some of the blame because he played Rooney out of position. Please when did Rooney ever stay in an appointed position. He is all over the feckin place. I am certain Fergie didn’t tell him to defend, do MF’s job, and play every position in the forward line in one match. Rooney is a feckin footballing gypsy on the pitch.
My third point, his hotheadness and collecting unnecessary yellow cards count. Fergie has spoke about this a couple of times on MUTV, that Wayne needs to be more in control and cut out the losing his head routine.
Do you watch MUTV Gabriel, because I know the points I made Fergie agrees with. Maybe not the way I presented them in technicolour graphics, not to everyone’s taste, but Fergie did say these things. FFS any MUTV watchers on this blog, did you hear the Ferg talk about these very points?.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:17
This season is going to show Tevez and Rooney contributions to the effectiveness of the team, starting Monday at Portsmouth. So we will wait and see and assess each players contribution after a good few games. We will have a clearer idea on Tev this year. I already made my mind up on Wayne. He is not a proper striker, perhaps he never was. Like I said, maybe he will be better in the Scolesy position as playmaker type eventually, seeing as a good few of you feel that is where he should be played. That is the Scholesy of old of course.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:21
@dan(u-ol): you have managed to contradict yourself in a matter of sentences. You say Rooney doesnt play as a SS and then say that he played there last week. Rooney is the Second most productive player in the PL FACT. He averages either a goal or assist in every game he plays and has contributed to more goals than anyone in the league except Ronaldo in the last few seasons. I love that the player who you want to replace Rooney (Berba) is lower on the list than Rooney albeit Berba is third. Question: Berbatov scored 15 goals last season. Would you be happy if he scored that many for the 25-30m that Fergie is planning to pay the team that are currently on 0 points in the league?
August 24th, 2008 at 20:27
Craig: Grognard fatigue, moving house and not getting internet access sorted quickly, and work not having me office based for the last couple of months have all contributed to my absence lately
As for Tevez, I’m not saying I have nothing to cheer. He is a fine player, with many excellent attributes. However his overall influence on the team still falls well short of Rooney, never mind Ronaldo. Generally, most of those vital goals last season came in the midst of a mediocre/anonomous performance. Yes he got the vital late goal, but if he had had more impact in the other 89 minutes we might have been alot more comfortable on some of those occassions than we were.
As for other teams wanting him, it doesn’t really tell you all that much. There was alot more interest in him because he was been whored around Europe by his agent in the prior two summers. That will generally generate alot of interest. How many teams of come out and expressed an interest in Messi? Not that many because most of them know they have little to no chance of signing him.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:30
Liam, that is an unfair comparison mate. Berba would have been right up there on the assists stats if the players around him had scored the goals from his outstanding passes. At United, with Ronnie, and our other good players, I believe his assists/goals tally would rise dramatically. Because of some of the best PL players around him. Yes, I would love Berba to wear the Red of United, he is entertainment, and class. Then again Liam mate, each to his own.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:33
@Craig Mc: Yes, I do have and watch MUTV and I heard Fergie’s quotes and it doesn’t echo ur points there mate. Just in case others can’t get to MUTV, Fergie’s praise of Rooney is even on our website,
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BF9E570E6%2D407E%2D44BC%2D800F%2D4A3110258114%7D&newsid=6616610
There it quotes his words from the MUTV press conference,
“I’ve no problems with Rooney. It (being unselfish) is maybe not the biggest crime to have in your life as a footballer”
“It shows qualities of team ethic and it shows qualities of an unselfish nature, which is terrific to see in a footballer because we’re in an era of individual appreciation”
“How players celebrate goals, the earrings they wear, the tattoos they have, it’s the era where they need to be seen. It’s refreshing that someone is prepared to sacrifice a lot of that for team effort, and I think carry on.”
How that reads as criticsm, you tell me!.
As per the hot head thing, he is guilty of boiling over on occasion, but let’s not forget that in the 189 appearances in Rooney’s career at United, he has received just one red card. Aged 19, he sarcastically applauded referee Kim Milton Nielsen for booking him for a soft challenge, when just seconds before he ignored a more worthy yellow card challenge. Rooney received a second yellow from the limelight loving Nielsen, who sent off David Beckham in the 1998 World Cup. And that’s it (apart from the Amsterdam tournament in 2006 where he and Paul scholes were wrongly sent off against porto), end of the red card story for United’s Wayne Rooney.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:35
@Liam: first, you dont want to posting false facts on here, it makes you look stupid, berbatov scored 23 goals last season(15 in the league) playing for a crappy spurs side, he was lucky to get any chances to score, if he cames to united, put him down for 25-35 goals a season.
second, rooney was meant to play as a second striker last week, thats where saf put him to play, but instead of following orders and staying up the field, just of campbell, he played like he normally plays, running around around the field like a headless chicken, playing misplaced passes, and get him and the team in trouble, that is hardly a contradiction, you should look up the word.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:39
Dan: Liam’s stats were in the context of being PL output, so the 15 goals stated were correct.
And to be fair to Spurs, they were one of the best attacking sides in the country last year. Crappy defensively yes, but attacking wise pretty damn decent.
August 24th, 2008 at 20:43
@Gabriel: that’s hardly anything to back your self up, saf is merely stating the positives of rooneys style of play, its like someone wearing a really tacky and ugly shirt, you say the good things about it, and you could say its good that the person wearing it is making a statement(saf saying the good things about his rooneys game style, and its good that he plays like that) but you could also say the bad things about that shirt(like saf has said thte bad things about rooneys style).
August 24th, 2008 at 20:52
@JB: well rooney got 12 goals last season so…
August 24th, 2008 at 20:53
@dan(u-ol): What are you on about? That is fact in those statements; Fergie has commended his style of play, and encouraged him to continue!. Fergie also took responsibility for Rooney’s Goal ratio (which has actually increased every year, contrary to popular belief) by saying he has played him out of position many times and now will look to play him in a well-defined preferred position so as to increase that goal output everyone keeps on complaining about.
Also, calling the provider of our team’s highest assists last season ‘running around like a headless chicken’ actually is ridiculous. If a headless chicken provides the most assists in our team and gets a better goal-to-game ratio than our other striker(Tevez) then let him continue, I say!.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:05
@Gabriel: o my, so what do you call it when a STRIKER is 90% of the time in his own half or near the half way line? a second striker plays behind the main striker, not in midfield, we spent 30million for a SECOND STRIKER, not a BOX-TO-BOX midfielder, we have enough of those. And to be honest, fergie contradicts himself often)even though in this instance he didnt) he will say one thing, and 2 days later will say the complete opposite. For instance, this summer saf said he wanted to sign a stiker, then he says our squad is fine, then he wants another striker! And now for instance, saf has said that rooney should be more selfish, many, many times, you keep referring to this one link, i reckon i could find 2 that says different!
August 24th, 2008 at 21:11
Dan: ….. what? The point I was making was that Liam was right. Don’t know what Rooney had to do with it.
For reference though
Berbatov - 15 goals, 36 appearances
Tevez - 14 goals, 34 appearances
Rooney - 12 goals, 27 appearances
Who has the best ratio I wonder……….
August 24th, 2008 at 21:14
Dan, well if Rooney can be our leading goal provider whilst spending 90% of his time in his own half or near the half way line (a slight exaggeration), then imagine how good he would be if he spent 30 or 40% of his time near the opposition’s box?
I suppose that is the point that you are trying to make though isn’t it?
August 24th, 2008 at 21:20
@dan(u-ol): A Second striker that has been played out of position!!! Fergie has said this, you know this too, so why do you keep misinterpreting the situation. He has been utilised out of position more than in his preferred position yet he still gives a decent goal-to-game ratio!!. The main reason for this out of position play was Ronaldo’s emergence as our focal point of attack and in the european games where we employed different tactics. It’s not his fault the manager told him to play there!.
Rooney has starred prominently for us in every season he has played and has actually gotten better in every season too, despite consistently playing out of position. If SAF actually then consistently puts him in his preferred position and he gets settled into it, then he can only produce a better goal-to-game ratio.
Geez, you guys are acting like he doesn’t contribute immensely gien the circumstances!. Again, he was our highest assist provider last season plus got a better goal-to-game ratio than our main, ‘prolific’ striker, Tevez.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:20
@AlexOfMancunia: yes, thas exactly the point im making
@JB: i put that to early season form, rooney had great early season form(the best since the euro 04 i think), tevez was rushed into the team because of injury, and took 5 games to properly gel into the team. And berbatov was just being a big babby by sulking for the first couple of months because of his failed move to us last summer. Stats are good, but can also paint a lie.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:22
Well Gabriel, this conversation is going nowhere. You are going on one of Fergie’s interviews. It is Fergie’s duty as Dan(u)ol says to point out the positives of a player. Fair enough!. But you can wrap the facts up in a chocolate box, and tie it up with a pink ribbon, but the points I said Fergie did concord with, even though he put it into a more positive frame than I did. But I am a bareknuckle fighter, and I don’t have to keep players happy. Fergie did say in various comments over the last few weeks:-
1. Rooney is not scoring as many goals as he can, and I am looking to him to start to score more. He can be like Ronnie?.
2. Fergie said, that he wants Rooney to stay in his own half of the field, where he should be to make more impact on a game.
3. Rooney does need to keep his head straight, and not get into compromising positions. Gabriel, I never talked about red cards, but I’ll tell you this. If Ref’s had given Wayne the yellows they should have done, he would have acrued more reds. I think if he continues this season in the same way, with the respect campaign, he will finish up getting more reds.
Anyway, I think we have exhausted this discussion, and this is my last word on the subject. I know what Fergie said over the past few weeks, I heard him, and I don’t base this hearing on one interview. Anyway, END OF!.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:26
deleted by me.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:28
Fergie should challenge Rooney to score more goals, perhaps a wager like he did with Ronaldo?!
That could be the solution doesn’t it?
August 24th, 2008 at 21:29
Dan: So we arbitrarily discount 5 or 6 goals from Rooney because they were early in the season and he was in good form? So are we allowed to discount goals from Tevez when we had a very good game, just to make it fair? Do goals count for less when you are playing well?
And while we give Berbatov and Tevez some slack for being moody/adjusting to the team, we ignore the injury disruptions that Rooney suffered from? Stats can tell lies yes, but your own analysis isn’t exactly unbiased.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:36
Here’s my take on Rooney:
He gets heavily criticised by fans and the media alike, who built him up so much when he was younger, that they expect almost unrealistic things of him at his age. Considering he does actually improve his goals to games ratio each year, he doesn’t do badly, and these last two seasons, injury and a lack of decent pre-season has hampered his ability to keep his form consistent throughout the season, which is why he is prone to goal spurts, then a few games without any goals.
However, many people don’t realise his goal contribution due to the large amount of chances he does miss. It seems that his composure has left him somewhat, and even though he gets himself in more goal scoring opportunities, he seems to either think too much, or try something fancy, when he just needs to do the simple thing and whack/place it past the keeper. Often you will see that he waits too long before shooting, and soon enough the opposition keeper is right at his feet, making it harder for him to score.
Also, due to the lack of an out and out forward last season, we played a more fluid style, where Ronaldo would often drift into the middle, and Rooney out to the wing. It seems that this has given him a bad habit, and along with his desire to play everybody’s position for them, he is a bit of a loose cannon about the pitch, which often leaves us with noone in the box. Hopefully, Fergie’s pledge to not use him as much as a utility player (playing him on the wing vs Barca for example) will reign him in a bit more, and get him more focused on staying in the correct part of the pitch. I doubt that we will ever stop him from roaming out onto the wing, but if Nani/Ronaldo/Giggs/Park/Any other winger we may purchase in the future can drift further inwards when he does so, that should not be as much of a problem.
The thing that did irritate me about his latest interview was when he mentioned getting “frustrated” when losing, like it was normal. To be honest, I would want my players to be cool and collected when we are losing, playing their natural game, which is good enough to beat anyone, instead of rampaging around in desperation. Yes I would like them to play with more urgency, but frustration leads to fouls, misplaced passes, missed chances etc. and I think that Rooney needs to learn to keep his head when all is not going well.
Sorry for the length of this post.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:36
@JB: no we shouldnt just discount them, but we should take that fact into account when making our own judgments on rooney from last season and beyond. im not trying to be bias, is trying to be realistic, and i just dont think rooney has lived up to expectations or potential.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:37
@Craig Mc: lol.
well, I don’t base my discussions on one interview, speculations, personal opinions but on Fact!. The link I managed to find was stating Fact!. Everyone can say he almost got sent off, he shoulda got sent off, Fergie contradicts himself, Fergie is standing up for the player etc but at the end, those feelings/personal opinions are not tangible and stand for nothing. You have to look at facts to deduce the true implications and meanings of events.
Call me stubborn, but I just don’t see it fair when a player is undeservedly criticised based on personal opinions/views when the Facts state otherwise!.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:40
@AlexOfMancunia: i agree with you 100%
August 24th, 2008 at 21:47
Alexof ManKunia, thank feck, someone who gets it at last.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:47
@JB: yeah and maybe we can take off all of Torres’ goals scored at Anfield because he finds it easier to score there. Hey because of that Rooney scored more than Torres, how amazing
August 24th, 2008 at 21:48
@Craig Mc: i know what you mean craig.
August 24th, 2008 at 21:49
@Liam: Hahaha
August 24th, 2008 at 21:59
@Craig Mc: of course he can score more but that’s like me saying that with the amount of shots Ronaldo takes he should score more. And we both know how unreasonable that sounds although I do consider Ronaldo to be much more wasteful than Rooney but I suppose that’s for another time
August 24th, 2008 at 22:02
Jetza - haha mate. A Ronaldo type challenge by Fergie for Rooney to score more goals, would be good, if the Roon is prepared to put in the extra training and dedication Ronnie did to become the worlds best player. Somehow, I don’t think the Roon thinks he needs it lol. But don’t tell Gabriel, he is Roon obsessed. Just teasing Gabriel mate!.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:08
Liam, awww Liam you have let me down mate!. You think Ronnie is more wasteful than the Roon. Ronnie does not miss the one on ones that Wayne misses, and he more often than not gets his shot saved, whereas the Roon MISSES the target one on one big time. Come on Liam, I have faith in your seeing it right mate.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:08
Well, on another note…
What formation do you guys reckon we should employ against Portsmouth tmz?
I was thinking 4-3-3, as we have no fit/available wingers. We should play a narrow 4-3-3 with Evra and Brown bombarding up and down the wings for width:
————VDS————-
Brown—-Rio—-Vida—-Evra
—–Fletcher—Scholes—–
———–Rodrigo———-
—-Rooney———Tevez—-
———-Campbell———-
With Fletch, Rio and Vida playing deep, Evra and Brown will be free to move up and down the wings. I put Rodrigo higher up than scholes because Scholes usually likes to drop deep and dictate play, plus he is more experienced and will display more game-concentration that will help in breaking up portsmouth midfield play. As per Rooney and Tev, they can both play free SS roles there and leave Campbell to push the portsmouth defence deep, hence creating space for both of them and Rodrigo.
Seriously, we are looking very good for tomorrow, I reckon we can put two goals past them, and more importantly, not concede any.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:23
@Gabriel: I would like to see one of the twins get a start. Either Fabio at LM or Rafael on the other wing tbh I think playing them both would make us much more dangerous but Fergie would never go for it.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:26
@Craig Mc: No i’m not Roon obsessed, just defending our player from those who are ‘Way’-ne too ‘Roon’-ey critical/expectant.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:34
@Liam: I know, the twins would be sort of exciting, but still unpredicatable, and that’s why Fergie won’t go for it!. I wouldn’t mind the twins coming on for brown and evra later on, cuz I want brown/evra to constantly be running up and down the wings, crossing, dribbling and creating link up play. They are the only width we would have, so it’s up to them and if they get tired, the the twins might get a look in.
It’s rodrigo I’m excited about, hopefully it’ll be a three man midfield, so he can have the space and opportunity to show his worth. If Campbell can push the portsmouth defenders back a bit, then rooney, tevez and rodrigo will have ample space to create magic!.
Crouch and defoe would not be a problem for Rio/Vida, they have one style of play and our defence should keep them quiet. Portsmouth’s midfield shouldn’t either, as we will have three in the middle, and we all know how fletcher gets juiced up when playing DMF
All in all, our squad is good enuff to beat them comfortably, that’s why I can’t wait!.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:45
@gabby
no anderson in there
August 24th, 2008 at 22:49
@gator: the guy just came back from the Olympics, maybe a substitute appearance, but I don’t see much chance of him starting. Maybe in the supercup, he could start!.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:54
Gator, I understand that both Hargo and Anderson could play some part in this game. Rather them then anyone else at the moment. But some people here have got wild ideas, so who knows lol. Come on Hargo, you are the man!.
August 24th, 2008 at 22:56
sheeeeeeeut put his ass in there he scored in yellow maby hes ready to score in red.
August 24th, 2008 at 23:21
Everybody keep saying that Fratton Park is a bad place for us. That we cant win there, only 1 win in 5 seasons. Its amazing! Pompey are a god side, but we should have beaten them with more often at Fratton Park. Now, Ive looked at some previous games at Fratton Park, starting in 2006, when we won 3-1. United team:
Vds(Howard sub)
Brown
Rio
Vidic
Silestre
Ronaldo
Fletcher
Giggs(Smith sub)
Park
Ruud
Rooney(Saha sub)
That season that was probably our strongest team. Scholes and Keane out, so Giggs(revelling in CM at that time) and Fletch took over. That was a good day, we led 3-0 at half time.
2007(06/07 season): United lose 2-1, United team:
VDS
Oshea
Brown
Rio
Heinze
Flecther(Solskjaer sub)
Carrick(Smith sub)
Scholes
Richardson(Giggs sub)
Ronaldo
Rooney
Maybe a strong attack, but at this time our squad was tired. Its April, sandwitched between the Roma CL games(7-1 win in next game!). Richardson sucked, Flecther sucked, Carrick sucked, Oshea sucked, Rio scored own goal and Heinze played like he was already a Pool player; like a looooooser! Pompey led 1-0 and 2-0 before we made it 2-1 in the 88 minute. Had it not been for James, we would have won.
2007(07/08 season). United draw 1-1, United team:
VDS
Brown(Eagles sub)
Rio
Vidic
Evra
Ronaldo
Carrick
Scholes
Nani
Giggs(Oshea sub)
Tevez
Tevez first game for us, Nani first start, Ronaldo got sent off… A bad day. Had we been more sharp, we could/should have won.
If we put up a strong team vs Pompey tomorrow, we should win. They have lost Muntari and switched their formation to 4-4-2. They only work when they play 4-5-1 if you ask me. Sorry for long comment, good night!
August 24th, 2008 at 23:50
Wow I am trying so hard to stop myself commenting on this whole rooney saga and most of you already know where i stand on the matter.
Anyway, how quickly the ‘fantastic’, ‘unbeatable looking’ and ‘goal scoring’ Chelski have returned to their old 1-0 dodgy looking self!!!
Come on United beat Portsmouth tomorrow so we can all be on a high. I’m thinking 2-1 Rooney to bag them both
August 25th, 2008 at 0:10
OllieY, speak up man please. We don’t know where you stand on the matter, but wherever it is, it is okay mate. I do surmise by your post though Ollie, that you are a big Rooney fan, well good for you. I very much doubt he will score two goals against Pompey though, but if he does, I will be amazed.
August 25th, 2008 at 0:31
JB, thanks for explaining where you have been, and why you have not posted. Great to have you back again though. I know Tev is going to prove his worth, so only time will tell eh JB?.
Red Devil, thanks for the stats mate on the UNited/Pompey games. I do know United don’t have the best record there. We truly need to win MOnday though, or we are fecked!.
August 25th, 2008 at 0:34
Gabriel, I know we don’t see the Rooney situation the same lol, but we are still cool though - right?. We all have different takes on things, thats what makes it so much fun.
August 25th, 2008 at 0:39
@Craig Mc: I am a big Rooney fan and don’t believe what all the fuss is about, he contributes fantastically to our team and is sorely missed when not in it. He just needs the one goal to get him going.
Form is temporary, class is permanent
August 25th, 2008 at 0:49
@Craig Mc: o’course we cool!.
haven’t you noticed i’ve taken up ur rebellious exclamating style?. 
August 25th, 2008 at 0:53
@OllieY: the debate has gone on for some time mate, was fun though!.
I think a little bit of clarification regarding Rooney’s strengths and weaknesses was good for everyone. At least, we all should know what to expect and not complain when he doesn’t acheive potentially one-off feats like Ronaldos’ 42-goal haul last season!. 
August 25th, 2008 at 1:01
@Gabriel: I don’t think it is a matter of Rooney performing terribly bad but one of people having too high standards for the young lad
August 25th, 2008 at 1:11
Gabriel, hahaha - that is mint mate. You got the exclamation/question mark rebellion down to a tee. Welcome to the punctuation/grammar non conformist society lol!. Down with bullies, hurrah for all forms of writing expression.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:15
By the way, where the heck is Red Ranter today?. I think he has gone into hibernation to escape the Rooney debate. I think he is a Roon lover though. But then most Man Utd fans are. Shame on me, but I can’t help seeing what I see can I. I like a good debate fracas, its the Irish in me I think - haha!.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:16
@OllieY: I know!. That’s why most English stars crumble under these sort of expectations, nothing is ever good enough!. The guy had the highest assists output in the team and second best goal-to-game ratio last year despite being injured twice and has also improved on those stats year after year, yet he is still criticised. I mean, he was the highest scoring Englishman in the premiership last year!.
Such expectations can lead to low self-confidence, as you try and try, and even though you acheive above average results, you are still not good enough!. Even messi (40 app, 18 goals) performed similar to rooney (43 app, 18 goals) last year, but people still give Rooney stick and rave about messi. It’s totally ridiculous and I just wish it would stop before they make him the next Michael Owen!.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:22
@Gabriel: Well said, there is not much wrong with the performances he puts in at the moment.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:22
Errr - Michael Owen is a great player when FIT. You can always rely on him for goals if he is healthy. Trouble is he seldom is. Anyway here’s a ponderer for you. Little man Nani was only one assist short of Rooney’s assists for last season, and I believe that was because the Roon missed some of Nani’s good crosses and passes into the box. I love Nani, but now I start another arguement right?.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:24
Ollie, Fergie wouldn’t agree with you on that mate. He knows he is not seeing the best of Rooney. Why you guys can’t see it is beyond me.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:27
Thought I’d share this, in case some of you are not regular readers of The Guardian.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:42
@Andrei: Read that article mate… I have been saying for quite some time that spurs were playing with fire and will get burned!. We want Berba, but are not desperate for him, yet Tottenham thought they could hold us to ransom for £30mil!.
Now the player is unsettled, they have only one other striker and need to sell Berba to acquire that extra striker with just a week left. United could even offer them £22.5mil and they’ll accept at this point!. Levy was playin chicken with Fergie and I guess he’s the one that has seemed to chicken out now
August 25th, 2008 at 2:08
Just call them, make an offer, and they’ll kick his ass out for 100% profit on what they bought him for 2 years ago. Every morning I wake up without news of Berbatov’s arrival is like nails being scraped down a blackboard…
August 25th, 2008 at 2:16
@Andrei: and speaking of the gaurdian, this has to be the most biased article ever!.
I bet she wanted to screw him after!.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:27
@Traverse: tell me about it mate!. At least now, Fergie can get him for the price he budgeted for. Another positive is that Berba doesn’t need time to adapt, he can hit the ground running, and I think that’s why Fergie was willing to play the waiting game.
Levy is a cunt, and although his defiant stance has strengthened tottenham’s resolve for not being a feeder club, it might hurt them in the short run. It is evident there is tension at the club and this Berba situation is not helping the new recruits settle into a good atmosphere.
I seriously hope we offer the same amount we reportedly offered the first time, that’ll be the icing on the cake for me!.
August 25th, 2008 at 6:46
Where is Grognard? Havent heard from him in a a while.
August 25th, 2008 at 6:46
@Gabriel: I would love to see United in a 4-2-3-1 formation with two wing-backs in the long term.
My (albeit very adventerous formation which fergie would not adopt):
EVDS
Raphael(Brown/Nev)-Rio-Vida-Evra
Rodrigo(Hargo)-Scholes
Tevez(Fletch)-Roo-Anderson
Campbell(Manucho)
August 25th, 2008 at 7:48
So what has been worse this summer:
1) Waking up everyday desperate that we get a striker.
2) Waking up everyday just wanting to hear Something about the Ronaldo situation.
3) Waking up realizing that you’ve spent your most of your time worrying about 1 & 2 and not celebrating the fact we did the Double over chelski?
August 25th, 2008 at 8:35
@Gabriel: I think she’s a pretty good writer for the Guardian. And if you go to her profile it’s pretty obvious she makes no bones about he love for Arsenal. Amy Lawrence is among the better columnists despite her Arsenal bias.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:03
@Gabriel: The Berbatov deal is only a matter of time. this is the way fergie inteded it to happen. we have broken the dressing room spirit at spuds, look at their result on saturday!,through this whole saga. The only thing left to do, If Levy the cunt has brain cells, is to sit down with us and agree a price. This one is going through before the window closes methinks.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:09
@Red Ranter: I know she’s good!. I was just pissed off at the way she made Fabregas look like a saint and in the process wrongfully indicated that Ronaldo was looking for a pay rise and using the media as his instrument (which is so not true). It’s typical London-biased journalism and they have a responsibility not to be that biased, cuz a lot of neutrals read those papers and when they read that, they will automatically think Ronaldo is some kind of evil, dishonorable conniving twat (which we know now, he isn’t)!.
Maybe it’s me, but that london-tabloid bias really grinds my gears and most people are naive to it and just end up believing the crap those journo’s write in the papers!. Anyways, mini-rant over!. Hopefully, when we get Berbatov, they won’t start saying United’s involvement was the reason Tottenham had a slow start to the season!.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:16
@Gabriel: I hate her. I hate the media.
I know im a very happy chap.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:17
@edi: lol, Fergie is the Master!.
You still have to give credit to Levy though, he put up a good fight!. At least now they have proved they are not so much a feeder club and can resist the overtures of bigger clubs when it comes down to their stars. Next time a big club wants to come in for their big players, they’ll at least think twice, and I think that was partly Levy’s aim.
As per Berbatov, wouldn’t it be funny if he was sitting in the stands at the Portsmouth game today?.
(seeing as Ramos apparently had no idea if he was in White Hart Lane on saturday)
August 25th, 2008 at 9:27
@Gabriel: lol m8. Did you see motd on saturday! God it was hilarious. After the Tottenham game, Poyet was asked about the berbatov situation, and after saying “he was not in the right mental comdition to play” he was told that Berbatov was in the right mind to score two goals for Bulgaria!! Priceless!!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:10
@edi: lol, dat interview was funny, wasn’t it!. The guy was flushed after the interviewer nullified his berbatov frame of mind comment lol. Gus Poyet said, “How do the English say, not in the right frame of mind”… well Gus, how do the Uruguan say, “usted fue embarrased” lol