Mar 06
Rooney Proposes, Barca Stalks, Fletch Loved.
You know how bad the world around us is when the Telegraph, of all the papers, run a headline “Barcelona line up Cristiano Ronaldo bid” and follow it up in their article quoting the club as saying that Ronaldo is among a list of players they are ‘looking at’.
It’s simple, if you think about it; Barca = Big Club, Big Club Loves Big Player, Ronaldo = Big Player, So Barca Loves Ronaldo. It is this kind of specious Aristotlean Syllogism that papers get into, at times, that gets my goat. Not that I particularly detest the Greek thinker, but it gives one a rather convenient route of reasoning that results in pointless speculation; something that causes wastage of acres of webspace… ahem… I think I will stop talking about it here, right now.
Rooney goes down on one knee for United and also dreams of playing an all-English final. About the former, he dismisses talk of moving abroad, keeping his faith in the high standards of the English Premier League. It is inconceivable at this point that he would even dream of moving to another Premiership club and, since Beckham, there have hardly been any English players moving abroad in their prime. About his dream of playing an English club, I won’t mind it as long as we don’t face Chelsea or Liverpool; past experiences show how turgid such fixtures can be. An Arsenal-United final, on the other hand might be rather tasty for two reasons: one, they have always been full of incident and drama apart from the fact that both sides play good football and, two, it would mean Arsenal have played a lot of games and their extended Champions’ League involvement would stretch their smaller squad more than ours. I might have come across as slightly arrogant here, but if it was an English side, I would rather prefer the Arse.
Actually I’d gladly take Derby County, but then I wouldn’t be alive to see that happen, would I?
Meanwhile, Sir Alex is the latest to offer verbal fellatio to Darren Fletcher — no puns intended, all metaphorical. Again, all my opinions on the Lyon game are based upon what I’ve read, and I’ve read only glowing words for the Scottish One. Scott — that’s his name — over at the ROM blog questions if we’ve been too harsh on Fletch and, in hindsight, I’d have to say that he deserved a call-up purely based on his performances against Newcastle and Arsenal. Fergie did have a fair point when he indirectly hinted Scholes’ propensity to give away cheap free-kicks in potentially dangerous positions for Juninho to exploit when he said that Fletcher harries the opposition players without necessarily fouling them. Of course, Hargreaves could have been a good option, but the positives to take from the game is that we could cope without Scholes and Hargreaves and the frequent rotation of our central midfield. While parallels could be drawn with Rafa’s rotation policy, it’s worth pointing out that our replacements are good enough and have responded well, unlike those of Liverpool.
Ideally, we’d like a settled midfield pairing, but I doubt even Fergie knows what that would be.
And Ben Foster looks to return to action for United reserves after being out with injury for, like, ever.
End of story for the day. Will return tomorrow.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Short Thursday Roundup
- Brief International Roundup + Berbatov’s Fitness Regime
- Giggs and Brown to Remain Reds | Ex-Reds Clash | Wenger Threat | Takeovers And Other Such Nonsense
- Possebon Loan ‘Cancelled’; Returns to United?
- The Red Hot Roundup: Scholes, Eggy, FIFA, Evra
Tags: Daily Roundup
March 6th, 2008 at 10:37
The difference between SAF and Rafa (who I respect a lot) is that Fergie doesn’t rotate the whole team, only the engine room. Yes, it seems strange to play Hargreaves against Fulham and rest him against Lyon, but he surely knows better.
Fact is that some kind of rotation is definitely needed, in order to avoid games like last year’s AC Milan away.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:43
I don’t mind the rotations as long as he keeps getting it right.. haha
Hargo not playing brought a smile to my face… Fletcher has been doing a fab job in his position.
i really like Carrick Fletch Anderson ATM… although i think Tevez has to start games now.. so i’d go back to a 442 with anderson and carrick
March 6th, 2008 at 11:26
Did anyone notice Mourinho’s recent comments: “Afterwards I want to go back to England and finally be national coach of Portugal.”
So a couple of seasons in Spain and Italy, and then back to England eh…I wonder if that is to coincide with the departure of a certain red-nosed gentleman…
March 6th, 2008 at 12:29
nice one beachryan
Shannon and I share the same opinion about playing a 4-4-2 with Rooney and Tevez up front, with Saha coming on in place of Anderson around the 70th minute, in case we need more striking options.
Can’t wait for the draw on March 15th!!! Don’t care who we draw up against, we gotta attttaackkkk from the whistle!!! Fergie no more cagey and defensive stuff man, we gotta take the game to the opposition, even if it is Barcelona.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:36
when is the last 8 draw? i am under the impression that its on 15th
March 6th, 2008 at 14:10
14th (Friday)
Barca are ‘looking’ because Jorge Mendes is pimping, the cunt
does anyone else feel that Foster’s return might be a bit underwhelming after the hype surrounding him (the last hope for England, United’s future, etc etc)?
March 6th, 2008 at 15:24
I think there is such a shortage of good keepers in England that Foster was put on a pedestal. The thing is we don’t even know whether he is that good. A decent spell for Watford and then a year out due to injury. I don’t believe that hes a superman goalkeeper.
March 6th, 2008 at 15:26
I wouldn’t want Mourinho and his super defensive tactics at United.
March 6th, 2008 at 17:26
UTSAV; After the way Fergie has been tactically preparing United for European matches I’m not so sure Mourinho is that much more defensive minded. For the BPL I agree with you. I am nevertheless very concerned that Fergie has learned and incorporated many Italian tactical concepts over the years and thus, we bore everyone to tears in the CL. I suppose the bottom line is winning but at what cost. If he succeeds we win a European Cup but then more and more English clubs will incorporate that boring and very negative style to their game. Bad news for football in general. I’d rather win the way they did in 99. Attack and loving it.
March 6th, 2008 at 17:44
Mas ter, totally agree with the article my friend, I was at the game on tuesday night and we definately made life hard for ourselves. I believe SAF got the tactics right, but picked the wrong players for the roles. Anderson seemed to be playing slightly more advanced than Carrick and Fletcher in a position that I would have played Tevez in and although Flether was decent on the night I would have played Anderson in there instead.
This would not have changed the tactics but Tevez would have provided a more fluent link to the isolated Wayne Rooney and a better attaking threat. I repect SAF, but I must admit that he does not fill me with confidence in Europe which is a pity coz this squad is definately good enough to win it this year
March 6th, 2008 at 18:11
I think that fergie not only rotate his squad so as to keep them fit but instead to keep an element of surprise of the starting line up. There can be combination and permutation in midfield that the opponent team cannot guess Manu starting line up. That’s his tactic
Before the match against lyon, fergie said to the press that he will play scholes in the final of the champions league if we reached there.
So, Alain Perrain guessed that scholes will be definitely playing and prepared his tactics to block scholes. Another thing is that many of united fans including myself had the idea that Hargreaves was bought for the champions league big matches. But instead he was dropped. Any player in the team is not untouchable.
Mancheter must not always be attack minded. There are many benefits of playing 4-5-1 formation. We can defend and then counter with great pace on the wings. This enable Manchester to have a different facet of their game. Also it enables ronaldo to be a free electron in the team letting him roam everywhere on the pitch. The 4-5-1 can easily expand to a 4-3-3 attacking minded formation or a 4-2-3-1 which is more defensive. The players can easily switch formation without making substitutions.
March 6th, 2008 at 18:17
another thing I would like to see us doing in Europe is pressing teams when they have the ball higher up in their half of the pitch like we did against Arsenal in the cup. This puts them on the back foot and stops them getting a foothold in the game instead of us dropping deeper and allowing the opposition to control the midfield and relying on our defense (who were brilliant on tuesday by the way) to keep clean sheets all the time.
If we do this and play Tevez between the midfied and Rooney, then I believe we can beat anybody on the night
March 6th, 2008 at 18:30
fred: the energy input level of both Ronney and and Tevez in very high. Its difficult to keep this standard level throughout the season. The team must be fresh inorder to press the defenders. Against lyon, it was not the duty of Manchester United to come forward as there was a possibility if qualifying without scoring. Its was lyon work to go forward to out the first goal of the match
March 6th, 2008 at 18:56
Grognard: I think you answered your question yourself. When earlier you had said how deathfully boring the Champions league is (i think 4 articles back or so) and thats how ‘pool and milan win. Well, Fergie is tryin the same. Its been 8 long years that hes trying the attack approach. Doesn’t seem to be working. The thing is he has forgotten to diffrenciate between teams. Last year a quality Milan team played 5 in the mid feild and outplayed us. So he thinks he’ll do the same this year. But c’mon.. not every team is milan and even if they are its not everyday that they can be disciplined enough to keep united at bay. So the bottom line: Against Lyon etc play 2 up front at home and attack. Only when against a stubborn side like Milan, pack the midfield and keep it a silent war. Now which team is good enough to warrant a 4-5-1 is what Gaffer is paid for. But please not every match.
Also apart from Chelsea and Liverpool, I dont think any team remaining in the competition can actually defend and play a boring game. So we should just out attack the others.
March 6th, 2008 at 19:09
bring on barca! messi will be down for this round with dos santos probably in for him and he is small enough to get pushed arround by our back four i was looking forward to him comming on for mexi vs us a while back and he showed some good skill but was not strong enough on the ball. where as if we get barca next round messi should be back and we know he’s the tits.
March 6th, 2008 at 19:35
Well posting after a long time . A good result .
We were bad in the final third , lyon scared the shit out of us occasionally however tactics wise we were good …
For all those who think we were defensive here is a different perspective….
We are United we win by attack no doubt about that however tactical incorporation is extremely important .
Fergie is not playing defensively , the message is simple ‘WE CAN SCORE AND WE CAN DEFEND EVEN BETTER’ . Other than for Tottenham match i have not yet seen a match where our defense has ever been exposed unlike Barca or Arse or Chelski for that matter.
Benzema is no kid , he is somewhat similar to Kaka with the ability of getting something out of nothing. Here is a list of great players whom we have contained very well this season Benzema Torres Gerrard Fabregas Adebayor etc.
Fergie is taking UCL as NFL playoffs where U don`t reveals ur bag of secrets in the opening act itself . He has superbly implemented ‘THE GEAR SYSTEM’ where if we want we can accelerate or else we can just stand on neutral ..
Arsenal Tottenham Liverpool Lyon Villa etc are classic examples where we attack when we want and defending to perfection ..
Hargo should start in Ucl no doubt abt that!!!
However Hargo recovering from a injury and playing a Fulham match is different from playing a UCL match .So stop complaining abt why he did not feature !!!! The last thing we want is a small niggle to Scholes or Hargo .. Both still have a big role in the coming EPL FA CUP and UCL matches !
Even though we destroyed teams last season when it came to big guns we were not good.
LAST SEASON STATS :
Lost to Roma (Away) 2-1
Lost to Arsenal (Home & Away) 0-1 & 2-1
Drew against Chelsea (Home) 1-1
Won AC Milan (Home) 3-2 Away (Lost) 3-0
Lost to Chelsea (Fa Cup)
(PS: The stats may be incorrect or look in to advance rounds)
This season SO FAR !
Won Chelsea 1-1(Community Shield Utd WIN 3-0 on penalties)
Won Chelsea (Home) 2-0
Won Arsenal (Home) 4-0
Won Liverpool (Away) 1-0
Won Roma (Home) 1-0
Draw Lyon (Away) 1-1
Won Lyon (Home) 1-0
Draw Roma (Away) 1-1
Draw Arsenal (Away) 2-2
Just see the results !We have defended when we want and unleashed when needed .
All teams are extremely wary of us not just because of our ability to defend away but the threat of scoring any moment
Fergie playing Rooney alone minimizes his potential however it is just a matter of time he brings in Tevez in the coming rounds and we can see again a score of 3-0 !
Statics always have a Sampling Error attached to it however if results mean anything there lies a great time ahead of us!
March 6th, 2008 at 19:38
Wazza and Utsav both made good points but in response to Wazza, Im not saying we have to press high up the pitch for 90 mins, but we must start the game like this and hopefully score a goal or two and kill the game off, then we can sit back and defend instead of hanging on to narrow one nil leads which puts our defence under pressure to keep clean sheets all the time. And its not just the forwards that need to press higher up the pitch,our midfield aswell needs to do the same. Watch the Arsenal FA cup game again and you will see what I mean. Utsav hit the nail on the head, different teams require different tactics and it appears to me that SAF is treating all teams the same this year when clearly some teams require more defensive tactics than others, especially at Old Trafford.
March 6th, 2008 at 20:51
UTSAV; Good point. Milan play a certain way because their attack is predicated around counters and breaking an offside trap. Players like Inzaghi have murdered opponents with that kind of play because they have players like Pirlo who can deliver long balls into space. We are not bad on the counter but that is not our normal style of play. But as I have learned from the past post, heaven help us if we disagree with Fergie. The Thought Police who hover on this site like vultures may attack. Remember, Fergie can do no wrong!!!
March 6th, 2008 at 21:38
lol Grognard
I always like your analysis . U give a picture of what a true Red Devil expects ! Ur footie knowledge is amazing and u stick your neck out to what u believe in .
Well i just like to think from other clubs perspective !
Since u follow German League i would like to know ur take on Altintop . I am big of that guy !
March 6th, 2008 at 22:31
News Flash: virtually everyone plays one up front in the European Cup.
March 6th, 2008 at 22:37
Grognard, what did I say in the above comment that makes you think that I think SAF can do no wrong, I was actually agreeing with Utsav and if you read my post at no10 you will see I said SAF got the selection wrong on tuesday.
March 6th, 2008 at 23:17
Which Altintop are you talking about Rick?
March 6th, 2008 at 23:17
Red Ranter.Can we have a discussion of how Sir Alex will form his team and tatics of the match for the champions league with each of the teams we might be facing.
March 6th, 2008 at 23:37
Foster put in a 90 minute shift tonight. Interestingly Neville did not make an appearence tonight.
Reserves Match Report
March 7th, 2008 at 0:30
Fred and Red; First off my comments were never directed to you at all. Others were voicing their complete loyalty and trust in Fergie’s computer perfect mind and so I just felt like a clear perspective on what he was doing was needed. It may have seemed that I was pointing you out but honestly, I wasn’t. And you are right, I think we were in agreement on Fergie.
Rick; Thanks for the kind words. I actually needed that as I just finished going through bit of a firestorm in the previous post trying to defend our right to voice our opinions freely and without certain individuals putting us down for our thoughts. I’m pleased that you enjoy my contributions whether you agree with them all the time or not. This site is all about ideas and opinions and I respect yours and others just as well. Thanks again.
As for Hamit Altintop of Bayern, I take it you saw todays game because he scored an absolute stunner from 35 meters out. I have mixed feelings about him because I was born with that nationalistic bias through my parents. You see he is Turkish born and I am from Greek heritage. History and silly bias says that I’m supposed to dislike him but Hell, he’s on Bayern Munich so I love the guy. He has tremendous talent and skill with the ball. A good passer but his strength comes from his long range kicks, crosses and free kicks. He has a flash for the dramatic strike when it’s most needed. The one knock on him is his lack of consistency. One game he is one of Europe’s finest, the next game in belongs in on the bench. He will have a hard time keeping his spot next year on the right side of midfield because Bayern just secured the transfer of Tim Borowski to the team for next year. Borowski is a favorite of Klinsmann so either he will be on the bench or he might be dealt. Then again, he has the talent to sit Borowski on the bench. Klinsmann is fair.
March 7th, 2008 at 0:48
[ebrahim]
Good idea mate I’ll pen some thoughts and leave the stage open to you guys to discuss – but only after the FA Cup game. BTW, I think everyone must start discussion on the Portsmouth game! It’s the FA Cup
semifinalquarter final, isn’t it?[All disgruntled warring factions on this board]
Any bitch fights/personal grievances against specific commenters, you have two options:
1. Read the useful matter on those comments and choose to ignore the hurtful ones.
2. Use the Contact form, liberally. I am all ears to your problems — anything other than your sex life and viagra pills.
Bonus Option: Ignore that offending commenter entirely.
Remember, the trick is this: If you respond to an attack with another attack, most likely you are going to hurt the guy’s ego. So 99% of the time he’s not going to sit quiet. And the result will be a fight as tiring as the Iraq war. So let’s talk about the main theme of this blog… ummm… Manchester United, was it?
March 7th, 2008 at 0:53
RR you’re getting ahead of yourself, we are only in the quarter finals
March 7th, 2008 at 1:24
thanks for clearing that up Grognard,
Im definately not a Fergie basher coz I think what He has achieved and the way he has built the club up has been brilliant and this current crop of players has the potential to be the best United side thay I can remember, but I must admit that some of his team selections and tactics, especially in europe have left me frustrated to say the least.
He is the last of the old breed of club building managers and his record domestically wiil probably be unsurpassed, but in Europe a few question marks still remain.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:27
[JB]
Dang! My bad. This is what you get when you post comments from work, in between writing lines of software code!
I’ll make that edit
March 7th, 2008 at 1:30
I’m not too worried about Portsmouth. Only problem we will have to quell is Jermaine Defoe, but he should not be a problem with Nemanja and Rio. As for a line-up, I think we will go with a 4-4-2. VDS in goal with the normal back 4 in front of him. As for midfield, I believe that Fergie will go with Scholes and Carrick in the middle, unless he wants to play it safer and go with Scholes and Hargo again. What’s going on with Giggs? I would guess Ronaldo and Nani on the wings again, with Giggs on the bench if he is fit. Rooney and Tevez up front hopefully.
I would say that maybe Fergie would rotate the squad quite a bit with players like Saha, Park, and Pique playing; but I don’t think he will be taking any chances.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:42
does anybody know where or how I can watch the documentary about Cristiano Ronaldo that was on ITV4 on wednesday night, its called {Cristiano Ronaldo, The story so far} and was on for 40 mins at 10 oclock on wednesday night
March 7th, 2008 at 3:02
[fred]
You can download it from megaupload: LINK
March 7th, 2008 at 3:17
Jermaine Defoe scares me and we’ve bottled a few games against Pompey. That said we should win this game. If we didn’t, however, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. the FA cup is a nice bit of silverware, but i wouldn’t chose it over the European Cup or the Premiership. I mean we’ve already won it loads of times. The two other fixtures this week probably means that we won’t see what some most people would consider our first choice team. Even so i’m sure that we have the quality to advance. The only thing that concerns me is that Portsmouth will be more motivated than we will. United have more pressing concerns, and this is Pompey’s only shot at a trophy. Still I’m confident that we can do the job.
Tactically we’llprobably return to a more attacking 4-4-2, as that’s what we usually play in domestic competitions I wouldn’t be surprised to see Rooney or Ronaldo benched for the likes of Saha or Park. Who knows, maybe we’ll see young Gerard Pique involved finally. But then again our back line doesn’t ever seem to get knackered. ever.
My team:
Saha
Tevez
Park
Giggs (if fit)
Hargreaves
Scholes
O’shea
Pique
Vidic
Brown
EvdS
March 7th, 2008 at 3:53
Cheers RR
March 7th, 2008 at 4:20
Gary Nev is finished people… I’ve said it before but this is getting
pathetic. Give the armband to Rooney and be done with it!
March 7th, 2008 at 4:21
Milz; Pompey will play with one upfront – most likely Defoe who will not be able to do anything against Vida and Rio… Once we get our first goal the game will be all over.
We will have no trouble whatsoever at home.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:47
Fred the Red; It’s important to know that I too have a tremendous respect and love for Fergie. His achievements have been legendary and he still has a few years to go. I think he is shooting for 25 years in charge and then he will call it a day. Now just because I love and respect the Gaffer, that doesn’t mean that even I simple fan cannot question some of his decisions. In his 22 years in charge he has only won the CL once and has only been to the final once. Not a great track record when you consider the number of years. And yet his problem has never been getting stuck in to old school old English tactics. Far from it. He has been first to learn and conform to the European game. Not too many UK managers would have a Portuguese coach as his right hand man. He is a fan and a student of the Continental game. Unfortunately he has learned from the wrong continental countries. Italy is a waste product of cheating, gamesmanship, defense first and negativity for 75 years. I personally don’t care one bit about their national or club successes. For me they are a cancer and a disgrace to the game.
Unfortunately Fergie has watched and incorporated many of their defensive tactical styles because he admires the fact that they get the result more often than not. That’s unfortunate. If he had learned from the Germans or the Dutch, United would be a thrill a minute in Europe when you consider the talent we have. But many who refuse to hear any criticism about him will point out that he is getting the results. Fair enough so I’ll wait until and if we lose in Europe before I twist off next on SAF.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:57
well grogy sir
germany as a footy nation is hardly an advert for attacking game! their national team sucks! Best in business in grinding out 1-0 (or at times 2-0) wins. Its just last WC finals only they played excellent footy under a manager like Klinsman.
Its only the dutch and the chezks who play real football in europe. but what have they won? last euro was won by a greek side, hardly entertaining! WC was won by the italians – worst lot! but it does tell you something at least. now the game has changed so much that it will take a very special team (something like barca 06) to play attractive game and win UCL!
March 7th, 2008 at 5:58
Grognard, I never thought about the Italian influence before, you might be right there mate. The problem is in the past when United tried to play open and expansive football in Europe some of our players were not technically good enough to beat the top teams, but I believe that this current squad is and sometimes I would like to see them really open up and have a good go in certain matches coz I dont think there is any team in Europe apart from maybe Barca, that can match the attacking options that we have at the moment. Now Im not saying that we should be wreckless and not worry about defending, but with the players that we have at the moment we should be imposing our system on the opposition rather than theirs on us.
The dutch example is a good one as all the great Dutch sides in the past played football that put the opposition on the back foot and its not surprising that Barca have had a strong dutch influence down the years including the current manager and coaching staff. Having said that, United still play good football most of the time so maybe Im being too fussy
March 7th, 2008 at 6:13
Why are people SO wary of Defoe ?
Defoe cannot play ! He is cup tied !
Thanks Grognard ! Well a lot of us provide different opinions however few of us do not take criticisms in the right way here i guess . I hope all of us do not have the same thought or else we will end up like Pool dreaming abt Epl forever!
Well you are correct , Fergie has taken a lot from Italian Play book . I guess he also gave EPL more priority over UCL.
However u should also take in to a.c how well we attacked against Roma Milan etc.Any team other than Milan in the previous UCL we would have won .
This time around i see the squad to be perfectly physically ready to fight in all 3 fronts !We might not have played that gracefully like we expect , thats because Fergie does not want them to exert themselves.
I guess the mentality has changed slightly ‘Do not push yourself in this round over the limit’. Other than for the recent arsenal match and that too the first half alone i haven`t seen us coming out in the fifth gear at all in the past few matches! Fergie is perfectly toning up the 5 Mid-fielders in a methodical manner so that when any one of them is called up , they are able to perform!
As far Hamit Altintop goes , i am a huge fan of him and consider him to be the find of this season in German League. He has come out of nowhere ! He is very good in attack defense headers free kicks and his range of passes is also good . If he continues his current performance he will one of the stars to watch out for in the next UCL .
I guess Scholes Hargo will start this time around.
———— VDS ———-
-Brown-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra
-Ronaldo-Scholes-Hargreaves-Giggs
——-Rooney—Tevez—–
March 7th, 2008 at 6:42
have ppl heard of this young german goalie, Rene Adler? Apparently he is rated quite highly and his fav team are United! After VDS is gone we’ll just have one good goalie (Foster, but he is still not proven at a top club like utd) I guess SAF will certainly look at strengthening this position this summer so that the new goalie has enf time to bed in by the time VDS goes.
PIG is just too average in my opinion. Not suited for a club like utd. Even Howard was better.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:59
good point about defoe rick
March 7th, 2008 at 7:59
& joe.. what ur saying about VDS is a joke right?
March 7th, 2008 at 8:31
My bad, u were talking about the pole
March 7th, 2008 at 8:50
like rooney can play in any other top team.basing on his form this season,he wouldnt play in any other top side in europe.in spain where fans boo their non performing players,he would ask to leave.
this whole rooney praise should stop until he performs.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:15
I’d like to think that Man Utd is different from any other club. We get behind and support our players especially when they are NOT doing well, because that’s when they really need the fans’ support. We don’t just sing when we’re winning…
March 7th, 2008 at 9:26
Meanwhile Fergie gives himself three more years.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:35
JOS; Your age is showing man. Obviously you know very little about the attacking style and history of German football. If you were old enough you would realize how completely wrong and misinformed you are. Up until 1986 Germany was always an attack first side. The German National teams of the 70’s were amongst the most offensive minded and innovative attacking machines in footballing history. Together with the Dutch they played and perfected the idea of “Total Football” also known as the “Whirl” which was revolutionary at the time and worked around the principle that anyone on the field could attack and another would back them by taking their defensive duties. It confounded and confused opposition teams in to submission. Other than the 1970 Brazil team that won the World Cup, I would rate the German side between 1972-74 as the second greatest side in history and arguably the greatest offensive team to ever play the game. They scored a lot of goals, showed tremendous skill and played an attacking and tactically pleasing style.
Players like Muller, Beckenbauer, Netzer, Hoeness, Heynckes etc made that era fantastic. The German Bundesliga was also a goal extravaganza. There would be very high scoring games and 4-2, 5-3 games were a regular occurrence. In the early 80’s players like Rummenigge, Fischer, Breitner and many more always made Germany an offensive threat. Things became more negative as the game changed in the mid 80’s. Still, players like Klinsmann, Voeller, Matthaus etc maintained the prestige of German soccer up until 1998. That is when things went bad in both the National Team and in the Bundesliga. The Bosman Rule has had more damage on German football than anything. But they are making a quick recovery and are now one of the favorites to win EURO 08. So the National team certainly does not suck. And heaven help any team that has to beat a German team in a penalty kicks shootout. No team has reached the World Cup Final more than the Germans and they have had a club side reach the CL final no less than 12 times in the tourney’s history. At no time other than the 2002 World Cup were the teams ever negative in their play. Sometimes their style was slow but very methodical and their aim was always to score goals.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:45
Grogs,
ok that might be the past but i wasnt really born in that era! I havent really heard of most of the players (except beckenbaur who is such a legend but was a defensive mid & Muller who I accept was one of the greatest strikers ever – based purely from what I’ve of him) I have started following football from 1994 onwards (seriously from 2002 when I first landed in Europe) and have been a fan since. Probably thats why I am a man utd fan coz they were THE top side at that time (though not in europe but I liked RVN and so started following utd and have been a red devil even though RvN has left!) In last 10 yrs or so I havent seen much to talk about from Germany. I followed WC’02 & Euro04 and both times germany were not so attaking (only were somewhat good in WC06). Germany today are known as a clinical, professional side rather than attractive side!
If we talk of bygone era, yes scores like 5-3 or 7-4 were common those days but I guess that is over now! Now teams are too defensive (not that they were not so earlier.. maybe the rules have something to say about that) Utd are prob the most (or one of the most) attacking teams I have seen. My all time fav national team happens to be the mighty hungary team of 50s that had Puskas and kocsis. Again I’ve just read about them and have formed an opinion about them (I prob dont like german footy so much as they so unfairly beat hungary in 54 WC) but thats ok. bygones are bygones and todays reality is the most attacking teams in europe are cezh and holland (in my opinion). eng are one of the negative teams alongside greece, italy and germany. portugal are somewhat ok.
March 7th, 2008 at 17:52
Yes I agree about Germany since 1998 actually. They went into a negative and downward tailspin due to a drying up of talent and tactics designed to work with lesser talent. And yet how great are they? They still made the final of the 2002 World Cup where I feel they outplayed Brazil and were unlucky to not win. A few goalposts and the poor game by Kahn cost them. They still had natural goal scorers in Ballack and Klose.
The Bundesliga has suffered the most. When I was a teen my greatest exposure to football was a one hour tv show called “Soccer Made In Germany” They would show the game of the week and condense it into an hour. For ten years I watched the greats of the Bundesliga play the game the way it should be played. Bayern with Beckenbauer, Muller, Rummenigge, Breitner, Maier and Hoeness, Cologne with Dieter Muller, Flohe and Schumacher, Hamburg with Kevin Keegan, the Monster Hrubesch, Magath, Kaltz and Moenchengladbach with Vogts, a young Matthaus, Heynckes and the great little Dane Simonsen. And the list goes on with fantastic players. Even the poor teams had a player or two that could play very well.
The league had quality defenders but the style was open and attack was promoted. Quite often the poor teams were very tough to beat in their park and they could occasionally shock a titan. Minnows back in that league and era, were capable of more and showed a lot more courage to attack. All teams back then played 4-3-3 and some played 4-4-2 but the 4-3-3 was to be compared with todays version. Back then 4-3-3 meant two central strikers charged to score goals and a winger who’s jon it was to create width and get in crosses. Many teams had scoring midfielders and many defenders were very attack minded with Beckenbauer being the King.
It’s too bad that along the way something happened to the game world wide and that kind of entertaining soccer was replaced by the brand most teams play today. Lets thank Italy for all the crap that is soccer today. Klinsmann created a Renaissance in German football not just by tactics and formations, but by team attitude, diet and team traing methods. Once again they are the team to beat and I for one think they will win EURO 08.