Oct 29
Scholes Out for Three Months. Great News?
So while I saw this earlier in the morning in the Lancashire Evening Post (irony?) I was holding off till I got to hear something more official. Well, here it is now as a spokesperson from Manutd.com confirms the news.
As we know his first scan was inconclusive he was sent for a second scan, the results of which, has now been revealed as knee ligament damage.
Scholesy has to now go for an operation to get his knee fixed.
While this is terrible news for all of us — Scholes was looking to get better and better with our 4 goal thumpings and we were looking quite potent — his absence against Kiev and Boro however had the slightest effect as we racked up another eight goals. This was due, in no small part, to the contribution of Anderson, who was first pressed into action against Wigan. And didn’t he do an outstanding job?
His lack of experience (he’s just 19) might certainly count against him in big games, like the one against Arsenal, this weekend. But to see it from a more positive viewpoint, there is really no better time to give him a good run in the side than now.
Carrick would still be a little more than a week away from a return. The Arsenal game would be too soon for him. And the presence of Hargreaves hasn’t been more important than it is right now. His reassuring presence, protecting the back four, would free up Anderson to do his thing and that would be the ideal platform to revel.
His lack of too many games might also just help him — people haven’t seen too much of him as yet — so it will be quite some time before he actually gets found out.
The depth in our side at present shouldn’t serve us too much cause for worry, as much as we love Scholes. But this is the time for Carrick and Anderson to show what they’ve got. The Anderson-Hargreaves-Carrick axis will be the prime component of our central midfield for the future, and this would be the best time to give us an insight into what things hold for us.
So is the Scholes injury good, in a way, for us? Discuss in the comments.
Related items from Red Rants:- Rants Returns to Regular Service
- Welcome to the best Manchester United blog in the world
- Man Utd: 07/08 Formations and First XI
- Manchester United throw the last game of the season
- Farewell Gerard, Selfish Rooney, EVDS to Play Till 40?
Tags: Discussions · Opinions/Columns
October 29th, 2007 at 19:43
I am a huge fan of Scholesey, the Ginger Genius. Technically, he is the best English footballer I have ever seen. Players like Zidane and Davids and echoed this.
we will miss him, there is no doubt about that. Scholes controls the way United play, he dictates our tempo. Anderson clearly has a lot of potential but personally I do not think he is ready to step into Scholesinho’s shoes just yet.
Anderson needs to hit the gym big time! He needs to bulk up so that he is not easily pushed off the ball. In time, maybe three or four years, he will replace scholes in the AMF position.
Another blessing is the return to fitness of Owen HArgeaves. He is a very intelligent player and playes for the team leaving the flair to others like Rooney, Ronaldo ad Tevez…
So in summing up, i do not agree that Scholes’s injury is good. Any team in the world would miss a player of his undoubted class and ability, I just hope we can pull through until he is fit again!!
C’mon you REDS!
ps. Arsenal 0 - 2 United
October 29th, 2007 at 19:46
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, i was fearing this, as much as i love anderson, and trust me i love anderson, scholes is a big miss, hisexperience is what we need against arsenal, i hope anderson can step up to the plate
October 29th, 2007 at 19:49
yep its andersons chance and who knows, maybe he’ll shine so much that even when pauls back, anderson is first-choice.
well atchully no.1 scholes hasnt been playing his best lately, his ment to be a AMF yet he always back passes and lately he’s been losing the ball.
October 29th, 2007 at 19:57
c’mon wats your great britain football team starting 11, im quite curious about this
October 29th, 2007 at 20:09
Well, Its a blow for sure. Scholes is Scholes, he will be missed, but maybe this is going to be the making of this squad. We worried we didnt have cover for key players, well looks like its time for them to step up. Anderson has been getting better by the game, and although a little lightweight - one or two of his killer passes make it through and I’ll be backing Rooney and Tevez in their form.
Should be a good test for United; win this and I think it shows we have what it takes (squad depth wise) to win the league, 2-1 United win Im saying - and on a bit of a tangent; who do we think Arsenal will start in goal? Almunia or is time for Lemons comeback!
Looking forward to this one!
FtR.
October 29th, 2007 at 20:20
well i kinda agree with u on that one bro good time time for hargo carrick and anderson to shine on like crazy diamonds:)
anyways lets hope gooners finally lose i still hate we lost last year both games and fucking wenger is up against SAF in head to head so time to kick some butts and hargo keep doing ur thing ur amazing
and yes the rooney tevez magic has to be there ronny being missed but hell we loved the shorties up front doing their thing:)
and i aint no pink flyod fan just liked the tittle
October 29th, 2007 at 20:23
and uncle van der sar will still play euro 2008 and then retire common man leave it and concentrate 100% towards united .
Edwin to curtail Dutch career
October 29th, 2007 at 20:24
Not sure if it’s a good thing, but injuries are also opportunities for other players.
Often it is the injury of a regular player that marks the
rise of a young star. Like we all know Anderson was this case.
If Carrick and Hargreaves were fit from the start, Anderson wouldn’t have had the chance to pair with
Scholes. He would have watched the Kiev game on the bench. And ppl wouldn’t know about his immense
talent. Scary in a way..
but like a blessing in disguise Carrick&Hargreaves were all injured for a period
and Anderson had the chance to display his talent. 19 years old, adapting to big club like UTD
and he is actally playing good!
Anyway, to answer your question RR. I don’t know yet.
We would have to see the results for the next 3 months.
But like you said we have the depth to cover Scholes. So I’m not worried.
October 29th, 2007 at 20:28
No injury to our squad is good news, and losing Scholesy now is not good at all. We’ll miss his phenomenal vision. Luckily Anderson has had a few games coming into the Arsenal game, so he should cope. What he offers compared to Scholes is pace with the ball and the ability to take on a direct opponent, and since we’ll probably resort to playing on the counter against possession strong Arsenal, I don’t see it as too big a problem, although Scholes’ experience would’ve been good.
Having mentioned all the possitives about Anderson, I think the injuries have to stop. We simply have too many of them. It might give rest to players once in a while (Evra, Vidic as examples), but the long term injuries are too many.
Good thing the backbone of the team is so solid, and we can cope with the injuries… just not a lot more I think. Hopefully Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo will continue their outstanding form, and if Giggs continues to improve and Nani keeps up his brilliant moments, we’ll do fine.
October 29th, 2007 at 20:34
gb starting 11 please!!!
October 29th, 2007 at 20:43
id say anderson and hargreaves are well able to do a good job against the arsenal
midfield. Anderson especially has been great lately. id prefer anderson over carrick,
he is a better attacking option and his service to the front two is just as good as
carricks. Anyone know if Evra will be back for the match. We will need his presence on
the left to keep Sagna quiet
October 29th, 2007 at 20:55
STARTING GB ELEVEN!!!
October 29th, 2007 at 20:56
Although Scholes is a leader and has contributed like a legend in the past, it is his time to hand over the position to a better man. Anderson needs the time to learn and mature and not waste it sitting on the bench. We need to see him run at defenders more and shoot more but at least we know he can pass and he works hard and tracks back with strong effort. We also will have Carrick and Fletcher there to support him. Hargo is the key now that he is back, he will have the most calming effect on Anderson as well as our defense.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:01
Personally I think if Carrick is fit enough he should start the game on Saturday. On his last two away games to Arsenal (with us and Spurs) he performed excellently, and his positional sense and intercepting abilities would be useful in helping Hargreaves shut down the Arsenal attack. Now whether we would come in for Anderson or Nani/Giggs is up for debate and depends on whether a formation change is a goer or not. On his fitness, he shouldn’t take long to get up to speed as he has only been out for around a month and the injury shouldn’t have stopped him from running/non contact training.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:02
Shite!what are all these injuries?i mean i cant remember a period when ive supported united that injuries have come this frequently.and surprisingly its sort of like a cycle,rooney gets back,sahas off,hargreaves gets back,scholes gone…..why arent arsenal getting this many?its ridiculous.liverpool have been hit so we not the only ones.anywayz this is the time for anderson to step up to the big plate and say”this is my f****ng chance and im going to take it”.after all we have embarked on this scoring run when he came into the side.and im praying hargo stays fit,really i am.we cant afford to lose him.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:04
Dan; Sorry for this and this is NOT meant as an insult but who really cares about a hypothetical starting eleven for Great Britain as this is not a singular footballing nation.
It’s like picking a European eleven. It’s pointless. Sorry about that mate, but I’m being honest with you.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:16
Going under standard Olympic restrictions, U-23 with 3 exceptions allowed.
GK: Gordon (over 23)
RB: Richards
CB: Rio (over 23)
CB: Taylor
LB: Bale
RW: Bentley
CM: Reo Coker
CM: Hargreaves (over 23)
LW: Young
ST: Rooney
ST: Ashton
Subs: Lennon, Fletcher, Evans, Davis, Carson, Bent/
Grognard: the UK is holding the Olympics in 2012 so the idea of a GB team is being seriously considered at the moment. The major block is that the Scottish FA have expressed concern that it will undermine its independent status in Fifa and Uefa’s eyes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7067642.stm
October 29th, 2007 at 21:17
i know grognard, i just want to know to the best 11 in britain…
October 29th, 2007 at 21:20
[Dan]
Stick to the topic please. Why is it even relevant here?
October 29th, 2007 at 21:26
thats alot of english jb, we should try and spread the players across the land. do you really rate ashton ahead of keane or defoe. now that ive had a rethink by 2012, campbell should have established him self in a first-team(most likely ours)
October 29th, 2007 at 21:27
soz rr, i didnt see your post.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:28
Theres no wayz carrick will be fit for the weekend.u cant just stick him in against arsenal and frankly speaking i do not want him to break the anderson-hargreaves combination and i certainly do not want 4 3 3.why be scared of arsenals attack?i believe ours is better!we just need to be more clinical in these type of games
October 29th, 2007 at 21:29
Red Ranter; Can I make a suggestion? The problem of getting off of the topic is nothing new and I am as guilty as anybody. But as this is a site for United fans to “RANT” may I suggest that there is a an ongoing post for unlimited (nonlinear) football related topics as well as responses and rants regarding your regular articles and posts etc. This nonlinear post would allow the exchanging of opinions without the concern of staying on the topic of your main headline. I think it would allow for some creative “FREESTYLE” ranting? Leave it going and then clear it every three or four days and let it fill up again. Sometimes many of us want to discuss what’s on our minds and not stick to the basis of the post’s topic title. Again, it’s just a suggestion.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:41
[Grognard]
But what I am trying to say is for example in this post Dan started off with Starting 11 for GB right bang in comment number 4! There you have the article, and have a topic that’s just hot off the burner (Scholes’ injury, which I believe is pretty big news at this juncture) and you have someone talking about a football starting eleven for a Great Britain team?! It’s not even about United. That said I don’t mind this coming up after say we’ve probably discussed enough about Scholesy’s injury and ranted our hearts out on that topic. Like what happened in the last post and several posts in the past.
Fair point. But what I am trying to say is this. I am all for freestyle ranting. Hell, if you guys get familiar, you could talk about your girlfriends too
There has been plenty of freestyle ranting on here and I have only encouraged it. Actually this is the first time I’ve asked someone to stick to the topic. The point I am trying to make is, readers should be able to judge when it is right to switch topics. My duty as a sort of a pseudo-moderator is to guide discussions if they do go terribly off track, apart from contributing to discussions on here. Even freestyle ranting and switching topics is an art in itself. You can have tangents which are off shoots of someone’s posts or thing like that.
So I don’t mind discussing about GB’s team (although I don’t give a rats arse) or even Shakespeare’s monkeys. As long as it looks like an organic and a natural shift it’s all good.
I hope I’ve gotten my point across to you people.
October 29th, 2007 at 21:44
Taehr: Sometimes players can return from injury and be ready to go straight away others can take weeks to get up to speed. It depends on the player and the injury and the only person who can make the call is SAF dependant on how Carrick looks in training this week (assuming he passed his scan today).
October 29th, 2007 at 21:57
Thanks for the clarification Red Ranter. I totally understand your way of thinking and to be honest I agree with it also. I just threw out another option for those out there who don’t want to wait until a topic has reached it’s expiry date, if you know what I mean. Thanks for the feedback.
October 29th, 2007 at 22:00
here here grognard!!!
October 30th, 2007 at 2:30
Not a good news but United have ample back ups.
October 30th, 2007 at 4:00
I would feel it is the opportunity to expose the new gem for United
and I really feel Anderson has so many talent to show.So with the
absent of Scholesy,I just cant wait young Anderson to open account
as a goalscorer in our team.
October 30th, 2007 at 4:43
i think this is probably the ideal time for scholes to be injuried, granted i would have preffered it more if it were after the game this weekend, but having him come back in january, after anderson is allowed the time to fully develope (maybe not fully develope becuase he is only 19 and i can’t even being to imagine what he’ll be like when he is 23-25yrs old) his experience will have a huge impact on our team. I love scholes to death but he is getting old(er), and he could do with another long rest since i beleive he would have been to tired by the time march/april came around to fully have his experience impact the team as much as it did in the past. hopefully giggs can stay healthy because to have both of those players w/ the amount of experience they have, out of the team of too long at one period could hurt us a lot more than some people might think.
quick question guys, but if it were possible, wouldn’t u agree that buying Ibrahimovic as our third world class striker that we would be set up front? he is insanley talented and havin his height (6-4) in our attack would be wonderful not to mention his dribblin is superb and he would add some more flair to our team (don’t get me wrong we already of tons of flair but zlatan is crazy and to have him, nani, ronaldo and anderson in the same team - along w/ everyone else we have would just to good to beleive). i know he would be very expensive and is 26, but i think it would be well worth it espically if we had a few more younger strikers learning from the likes of rooney, tevez, the baby face killer AND zlatan! i know this is completly off topic red-ranter, but i looks like the debate on the topic (good article by the way man) is pretty much done. what do u think about the possibility (if it even is one) of havin him join our team?
October 30th, 2007 at 6:19
I know I’m not alone when I say I’ve been more than impressed with Anderson’s play. But I am curious to see how he works on the left wing. I know Carrick isn’t fit, but if he were ahead of Arsenal, I think I would start him alongside Hargreaves in the midfield because he is probably a better defender than Anderson and better suited to help Hargreaves slow Arsenal’s free flowing style. This is especially true when one considers that Hargreaves will most likely spend a large portion of the game marking Fabregas.
Too bad it doesn’t matter because Carrick won’t start. My prediction
VDS
Brown-Rio-Vida-Evra/Pique/O’Shea
Hargreaves
Ronaldo-Anderson-Giggs
Rooney-Tevez
I’m pretty sure Giggs will start in order to add some experience to the attack, especially since Scholes is out. Plus, he only played about 30 vs. Boro, so he should be fresh. Also, I pray that Evra will be fit to start.
October 30th, 2007 at 6:56
Anderson go go go go go .It is time to wallop the arse-holes.
Go manchester go.
I would really appreciate a 3-0
win in favour of Man U
October 30th, 2007 at 7:13
The way to beat Arsenal is for the squad to not let the reputation of their free flowing football distract them from their own free flowing football. The tendency in such a big away game would be to play a conservative, slow and ultra defensive game. I say to hell with that. If there is one thing I know is that Arsenal may be full of piss and vinigar right now and their confidence is high. They will be over confident with this home fixture and so we should try to take it to them. Come out running and gunning. I honestly think that Arsenal’s youth will betray them if they are pressured. They have far more inexperience than we do and they need to be tested.
Liverpool played a stupid and very cowardly game after the scored their early goal. Their style was like Bolton with all those long speculative balls to nowhere. They played into Arsenal’s hands just at a time when they had Arsenal on the ropes. This proves how stupid RAFA is. Fergie, go for the jugular. In my heart of hearts, there is no way they are better than we are, unless we let them. In the past Fergie has been out managed in big games against Mourinho by falling into the Special One’s slow paced defensive counter attacking trap. Don’t fall for Wenger’s free flow fast break. He’ll expect caution. I say throw caution to the wind. I’d rather lose 4-3 than 1-0. And sitting back will make it a 2-0 or 3-0 game. This team has killer instinct. So do we…..I think.
October 30th, 2007 at 7:36
Arsenal was playing 4-5-1 in Liverpool match, Scholes absent may prove costly when the team deadly need a player to dictate the tempo of the game. Anderson is in-experience and lose the ball easily even in his own half, he is not afford to do that against Arsenal. Anyway i still think that the special one’s slow paced defensive counter attacking trap is the best way to play against Arsenal at Emirates.
October 30th, 2007 at 8:37
this wouold be a blessing if sir alex continued to play hargreaves and anderson but i fear when carrick is fit he will just play hargreaves and carrick whereas the better option would be the first one.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:27
[33. Grognard]
I agree with you 100%
Arsenal is good at tearing teams apart, but how good are they really when another team does it to them?
Liverpool’s mistake imo was that they started ‘defending’ a 1 goal lead. that’s when the long balls started.
SAF’s problem (especially with these fixtures) is exactly the same. He usually reverts to defensive playing and depending much on the counter attack. I think we should take the game to Arsenal. This is the one game where I would appreciate the mentallity of “we’ll score more goals than you”.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:32
I think that Scholes’ injury is bad for the team and came at a bad time.
At least the positive to be taken (there’s nothing anyone can do about the injury now) is that Anderson will get more playing time. Although, I doubt he will start on Saturday. I think SAF will revert to Hargo/Giggs in the center, with Nani and Ronaldo on the wings (that’s if he even decides to play 442).
I agree that Anderson needssome time to really settle in, but I think it will take a year or 2, not 3-4 years as mentioned earlier. (I still think he is a little midfield genius!)
October 30th, 2007 at 11:12
I can’t wait for Anderson to rip Arsenal apart!!!
And the battle between him and Fabregas is really gona be something… Can’t wait…
October 30th, 2007 at 12:45
I think that Anderson has answered all that has been asked of him, so may times players are thrown into the deep end because of circumstances out of their control ( Geoff Hurst would never have played in 1966 had Jimmy Greaves had not been injured and his goals won England the world cup!) SAF dilemma will be “do I play experience over Anderson in such an important game” The team is buzzing, scoring freely and Anderson has been a big factor in the ABSCENCE of Scholesey, I think he will get the nod on Saturday with SAF continuing with a winning formula.
October 30th, 2007 at 13:13
Yea I agree with Grognard, we have to go to Emirates with the idea that we will play our game, not get drawn into a match that changes the stlye of play that has worked so effectively for us of late. For me Arsenal rely on two players to win matches, Cesc and Adebayour more than anyne else. Cesc is their pivot, everything that is good about Arsenal comes though him, with Adebayour playing the link man, either with knockdowns or creating the space for himself or for a team mate. With Rio and Vidic I think we possibly have the best combination of CB’s to match his game. Ferdinand is a good match for speed and both are good in the air. I hope Vidic really gets stuck in early and softens him up, he has a bit of a temper, like Cesc and likes to get involved in rubbish that he shouldnt, like how Liverpool really unsettled Cesc early and he didnt strat to fall into his groove until midway through the second hjalf.
I think our defence has to help Haregreaves to suffocate Arsenal in our half, most teams like to stand off them, like the idiots at the scousers, where Carragher and Hypia, who are probably the worst CB pairing in any of the larger clubs across Europe, allowed Arsenal to play on the edge of their 18 yard box, easier said than done admitedly but they need to stand more elevated up the field cramming the space, because I think at the back we will have the speed to cover any sudden breaks against Rosiscky and Helb and co (maybe not theo). For me Ferguson has to play a 442 where Anderson and Haregreaves hold the midfield, we say we can outscore any team in Europe so it’s time to prove it.
Arsenal CBs as mentioned in earlier discussions are world class, and will probably beat us for pace (well Toure would) but Liverpool looked most dangerous when slipping balls to Torres, so thats what Anderson must do, slip balls to Tevez and Rooney to do what they do best! Cristiano and Giggs/Nani will be best suited cutting in (which they do anyway)against Eboue and co. againt for balls for Tevez and Rooney. Everything will have to be on the ground, stickking to our style to date. Any free kicks arund the box will I think be best used to llok for Vidic and Ferdinand and possibly OShea as Arsenal have a severe lack of height around the pitch and would be stretched to meet them in the air, so no Cristiano crap.
I think Arsenal will go more defensive than usual, and will play Gilberto behind Cesc, so for me its to very similar teams, playing against one another, who has the best talent, and luck for me will probably win.
For me a draw, 2-2 where Tevez and Ronaldo score for United and Eboue and Theo(with a late equaliser) for Arsenal.
October 30th, 2007 at 13:29
Ohh and with Scholes injury, I think stretching our squad can never be a good thing, but allowing Scholes to rest and Anderson to play can never be bad, so its a real catch 22, and I see the depth of question Red Ranter.But if Carrick plays it defeas the purpose for me. I really have my doubts about Carricks ability to perform consistenly at the United level and his role in this team as more a squad player behind Scholes, Haregreaves and Anderson(an expensive one at that) seems better to me for a player of his inconsistent ability. Or it could be I just dont like him for some reason….
October 30th, 2007 at 13:48
I dont know if anyone mentioned but Anderson burst on to the European stage with a ripping display in the midfield for Porto against Arsenal. He made Fabregas foolish in one of the tussles..Hope you might have watched that in YouTube…
I wud prefer fielding Anderson over Carrick and the changes being Giggs for Nani and Evra back in the left back..
Sorry Red Ranter for deviating from the topic..I think it is time to add a Match Preview post…Everyone is talking about the match and team for that match now..
October 30th, 2007 at 14:31
Carrick:
+ The best passer in the team
+ Never gives the ball away
+ Most creative in Midfield
- Gets himself isolated at times
- Playing him along OH is a bad idea
- Shooting ability is Poor
October 30th, 2007 at 14:49
Carrick has a very good shot actually…
I think Anderson would benefit hugely from an extended run in the team, but I think that goes without saying really.
October 30th, 2007 at 14:57
quick question off topic. posted this on soccerlens but those tools were too concerned with their soccer knowledge pissing contest to care. does a manager have the freedom to vary the pitch dimensions as he sees fit, or are they set in stone at each particular venue?
October 30th, 2007 at 15:02
As much as i would like to stick to the topic, we are all forgetting one thing. Anderson could play brilliant in the arsenal game, the midefield could be very good but what about the defense. i was really disturbed in how Ferdinand slipped back to his notorious napping antics that lead to the former gunner boy to score against us. I hope he wont be in this mode cause trust me, when you leave chances like that to arsenal make no mistake, the will punish us. Though I very much beilive in united, it will be very foolish to undermine arsenal. their attacking gives me chills. So ferdinand if you reading this PLEEEEEEASE stop your napping antics
October 30th, 2007 at 15:24
I think you may actually be onto something there Red-Ranter because the future of our midfield is certainly Hargreaves, Carrick and Anderson.
I have a feeling that at the Emirates we will see Hargreaves, Giggs and Anderson in the midfield to sure things up and allow Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez to do their own thing in attack.
Overall I think we will miss Scholesy in games such as the Arsenal one, especially if Carrick is injured too, but as Red Ranter says will be few better chances for us to see the future before it becomes the present.
October 30th, 2007 at 15:25
[Nelson]Unfortunately I think Rio and Vidic are the only two experienced centerbacks who can stand solid against the Arsenal attacking quartlet of Rosicky,Hleb,Fabregas and Adebayor..Lets pray they bring out their best this weekend..
The key here is both Arsenal and ManU are playing breathtaking football when attacking and are capable of scoring goals..But on this weekend it would matter who defends better..It is turning out like a Brazil-Argentina match..
There fore i agree with the view that we should not be sitting back and counter attack because we will never be able to. They will tear us apart and they are so good in that…The mental attitude should be “If you score one , we score three”..Good for football that these kind of teams are there and these kind of matches happen…I hope it is worth watching the game and in the end ofcourse Man U wins…i wont mind even if the score line is 6-5…if we wins..Coz it is that kind of a game.
October 30th, 2007 at 15:32
Is it just me, or did Anderson seem a bit uncomfortable playing with OH?
Maybe its just me starting to expect so much of him. He still had a good game…but…there was just something missing on Saturday. I will be very concerned if it is the pairing of Anderson and OH.
October 30th, 2007 at 15:37
Nelson; You are so correct brother. The biggest worry is how our defense plays? Will the real Rio show up or will it be the “The Napper”? All this talk about Anderson has me wondering about whether people even realize how young and generally inexperienced most of the Arsenal players are. What they lack in experience, they make up for with determination, flow, speed and tremendous creativity on and off the ball.
So how do we beat them? Well I already wrote a post about not falling into their trap. So I hope we attack in force and with pace. That said, we will still have to figure a way to neutralize their fast flowing passing game and somehow frustrate them.
United usually play a zone defense that doesn’t really pressure the opponent until they reach our third of the pitch. Fergie is a wise man but against a great and highly skilled team like Arsenal, I think this strategy good be calamitous. Arsenal play so many give and go’s, and short passes while all players are constantly moving around. Pressing them hard before they get into a rhythm is essential. Like playing Argentina, the goal here is to nip them in the bud before they reach the tenth pass in a specific attack. If you allow them to move the ball around , build confidence and tempo without really pressuring them, well then you are asking for trouble.
We have a lot of young players with strong lung capacity like Fabregas. We need to press from the beginning and also show a physical presence. If we don’t come out of the game having received 4 or 5 yellow cards I will be disappointed. I’m not advocating Carragher style cheating, I’m just saying make them pay for their brash arrogance on the pitch. Rio and Vidic have to play the match of their lives, Hargo has to be like glue on Fabregas and most of all, Ronaldo has to really show up in a big way. A performance like last week or in the last FA Cup will make me wonder if we have seen the best of him already. He really needs to make it known that he is the best player in the EPL, and not Fabregas. I hope Wayne Rooney also has a say in this argument as his continued great form with Tevez is vital.
And finally, the biggest requirement for the game will be for EVDS to make a real appearance and make those saves from shots outside of the box. Be properly positioned for crosses unlike the way wasn’t against Boro. Move like a cat to get to shots rather than having. that delay of old age. I’m saying bloody well find the fountain of youth bloody well fast because if he lets in a cheap goal or two we are done for. It should be Arsenal who should worry about their goalkeeping, not us. Still, I worry…..A LOT.
October 30th, 2007 at 16:08
Just read that there is a cloud over Rios head, dont know the quality of the sources but Uniteds web page suggest hell be back, but I think we may have to wait to match day to be positive!
October 30th, 2007 at 16:11
very nice argument up there but i am of the opinion that the injury is a blessing in disguise..anderson really needs playimg time to build on what he has started and get more consistent play and scholes injury could never have come at an opportune time as this.
remember that at arsenal fabregas was never that good until viera left so for our case i think its the same. something has to give for talent to mature.
anderson is def a good player. on sat carrick may be brought in as a sub if things get thick.
October 30th, 2007 at 16:13
Ohh and on Carrick, I disagree that he is our most creative player, I think he lacks vision, he as I have mentioned before, plays to many balls either horizontal or behind, thus he may appear to have the best efficency rating for complete passing, but they are meaningless possesion. For me he is neither creative and attacking enough (maybe due to the role he has been given) or defensive enough. I just dont rate him, and dont think overall he is worthy of a starting role. Just my view…
October 30th, 2007 at 16:39
Carrick should be known as Scholes-Lite. Where Scholes is the king of slowing the game tempo down, making vertical or back passes, Carrick is the Prince waiting to inherit the throne.
He’s a good player that is highly overrated, slow and often times can be marked completely out of a game. His high risk offensive passing is also very overrated. I’ve seen more quality forward passes in Anderson’s limited time of play than Carrick has shown since he arrived at Old Trafford. For me he is only an adequate backup.
October 30th, 2007 at 16:46
grognard.. can you please shut up regarding your rants on carrick. There were days probably when we used to read your posts.. now a days.. its too long and filled with shite to read. If you think that Carrick’s passing is overrated.. you can shove your rants up your…
October 30th, 2007 at 17:44
your such a child red, you know nothing about football because if you did you would know that grognard is right about carrick, it would be a lie if i told you ive seen carrick play a V ball, he always plays it short or gos long H ball, whereas with all-mighty hargo, He’ll play V through balls to our attacking players all day long, he’ll atchully do his job and break down defences whereas with carrick, if the ball is in the attacking 3rd of the pitch he’ll be in the defensive third of the pitch and if the opposing team is attacking us in our defensive 3rd of the pitch carrick will be in the attacking 3rd.
October 30th, 2007 at 18:00
[Red]
If you dislike Carrick; saying so and reasoning about that should be enough. Mixing it with your dislike of a fellow commenter who does take an honest effort at writing posts on here is totally uncalled for. Feel free to disagree with him, but if they are an eyesore, or if your attention levels don’t allow you to go through his elaborate rants, the you are welcome to sidestep and ignore him. I am sure he would have by now grown sick of wind ups like yourself. But it is my duty to warn you about future practice.
There are a lot of people who disagree with what Grognard has to say. We are after all humans who would have ideas of our own. So there really shouldn’t be a problem if one person prefers to put efforts into writing a lot and one prefers a two line rant. So long as you respect opinions it’s all okay here.
October 30th, 2007 at 18:04
I think the best way to beat Arsenal is by counter attack.We will
break their play up before they start the pass and move play in United
area.then our Ronaldo,Rooney and Anderson will burst into Arsenal
third with pace and venom
October 30th, 2007 at 18:20
well said by the [b]true[/b] red, i agree sunny when i saw the liverpool match the arsenal center back was further up the field then adebyour(lol)if they do this against us we should win.
October 30th, 2007 at 18:26
Red; When I read venom like yours pouring out on a page I just think of two words.
ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT.
October 30th, 2007 at 18:34
Daaaammmm!all this analysis and the game is four days away!i wonder what it will be like on friday?!i think u guys are giving the arsenal team and their ” football” far too much respect.”ferdinand needs play his best,hargreaves needs to do this…ronaldo needs to do that….i mean come on its 11 v 11 and arsenal aint no super human team! they can be beat .i personally feel we will win or draw.stop thinking about how we need to stop fabregas and co.how are they going to stop rooney,tevez,ronaldo??!…..our team has far more dangerous players…far more.
October 30th, 2007 at 18:38
mate.. sorry for the wrong kind of words used.. but seriously when united fans themselves start calling a guy as over hyped and stuff when he was so instrumental in us being so destructive last year.. it pisses me off. its like backstabbing the hero
October 30th, 2007 at 18:54
Red; At no time have I ever called Carrick a bad player. But he is overrated. Why? Because Fergie paid way more than he is worth as a player. His contribution has been good although inconsistent. If he played 50% of his games like the one against Chelsea this season than he would be worth that money. He’s a good player and he would be a star on 15 other EPL teams. But, I’m sorry to say that for me, he isn’t up to the class needed at that position by United. Anderson in a short audition has shown us all glimpses of brilliance and more than Carrick has when it comes to creative play.
To be a United fan does not mean I have to act like a trained seal and clap when ever the master tells me so. To be a TRUE United supporter is to love your team enough to see it’s flaws and occasionally question the decisions being made. Fergie has made very few mistakes and like many I have too in questioning some of his moves or tactics. But that is the nature of the beast. We are fans who have no control over the day to day decision making at Old Trafford. So whether we agree with policy or not, PLEASE LET US ALL RANT TO OUR HEART’S CONTENT, without being slagged for it. And trust me when I say that I appreciate and respect your admiration for Carrick. Millions of personalities out there, we can’t all possibly agree. What we all can be though is a little more tolerant regarding each others views and tastes. SO LETS RANT AWAY!
October 30th, 2007 at 19:12
I have to agree with Red regarding Carrick. I can understand your frustration Dan and Grognard but remember Carrick has been asked to play as a holding midfielder whose primary responsibility is to break up opponents attacks and then to give the ball to Scholes to get our attack started.
Fair enough he does not have a Roma type performance week in week out, on the contrary
he seems to get stuck in a uncertain hole where he struggles in defence and attack but I was under the impression that he was bought as a replacement for Scholes and therefore he is a creative player. One just needs to look at Spurs performances when he was running the midfield with Davids to know that he is a really good player who will defo come into his own when playing in the creative role with Hargo breaking up play.
October 30th, 2007 at 19:15
grognard why do you bother, its obvious he isnt a real supporter, just a child trying to act big. how the hell can you say carrick is a creative player, he dosent have one creative bone in him, if he was sold for anything over 11 mil i would be laughing at the team that bought him(as praticly every premier league club laughed at us)
October 30th, 2007 at 19:16
is carrick less talented than hargo and anderson.. may be.. Is carrick united class.. definitely. Just because we had andy cole and dwight yorke starting, it doesnt mean that sheringham wasnt united class.. just because rio and vidic are better than brown.. it doesnt mean brown isnt united class.. its just that they arent world class.(To be a world class he needs to play on the top for atleast 80% of the games.. which he isnt)
October 30th, 2007 at 19:19
and dan… all premiership clubs laughed at us.. to bite back their words… they have written us off at the start.. but we were the first team in many many years to win the league without a defensive midfielder….
October 30th, 2007 at 19:25
Just1n; Fair enough, he’s a good creative player but that does not mean he will do it for United. Quite often players who play very well for lesser clubs struggle to find that form and confidence when put to the task on big clubs. Shawn Wright Phillips, Sidwell, Crouch, Kuyt etc are examples of such players. They are still good but they don’t reach their previous levels or potential due to the fact that all of a sudden the dreaded elements of extreme pressure and lofty expectations come in to effect. What happens is that they don’t just lose their capabilities, they just show signs of inconsistency. United cannot afford inconsistency.
On Saturday we play a great team whose central attacking midfielder is a creative and energetic genius. United need to match that with similar qualities. There is no way Carrick compares to Fabregas. However, I can see Anderson comparing to him very nicely in a year, two at the most. And yes I do understand that Carrick has had to play out of position since arriving. But that doesn’t hide the fact that he doesn’t have the pace or skill of Anderson. I do prefer him to Scholes though at this time in Scholes career. So for me he is a super sub or part time starter who can spell of Hargo or Anderson very well.
October 30th, 2007 at 19:36
Grognard: Yeah Anderson does have more urgency about him or maybe Carrick is just so classy he looks like he has time on the ball. lol.
But Anderson is coming into his own and does not deserve to be dropped on current form and I would not risk Carrick coming back from injury to play in such an important game.
I dont think you can compare Carrick to SWP and Crouch etc as Michael was a constant in the team that took the league and got to semi final of CL and not giving him his due is a bit unfair. Compare Man Utd of 2 seasons ago who could not win in Europe and could not compete at home and the only player that was added was Carrick and well …you do the math.
October 30th, 2007 at 19:50
pants utter pants
October 30th, 2007 at 19:59
SWP was a constant and a star at City, Crouch at Southampton, Sidwell at Reading and Kuyt at Feyenoord. They all have been bench warmers or very inconsistent once they arrived at a very big club.
Carrick has helped United. There is no doubting that. But is he the man to take them that extra distance to win the league again and again while our strongest oppositions continue to push the envelope and improve by leaps and bounds? Does he have the required skill and class to rip open the top Champions League teams and take us to that ultimate height of winning the European Cup? I don’t think so. Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter, Chelsea and Werder Bremen all have attacking midfielders who are superior to Carrick. Dare I say that even the Scousers have Gerrard, who in all fairness has had quite a few good days too. We compete because of Ronaldo and Rooney despite the need for a young, energetic and highly creative CAM. This needs to change so that it adds that needed dimension to our game and to better free Ronaldo and Nani.
October 30th, 2007 at 20:27
carrick frustrates the fuck out of me but have to say im more of the opinion of “red”
the boy aint as fluid and dynamic as anderson, cesc etc but he benefits the team without
a doubt- he proved that to every1 last season. Things looked gloomy when he wAS OUr only
summer signing but he was exactly what we needed. Despite all this i dont think he or Ferguson know
his best position. Quotes from fergie when we bought him was that he wasnt keanos replacement
and that he wasnt bought as a defensive mid? If that is the case Carrick better brake the shackles
when he returns and provide more attackin zest! when the boy is on form i think hes top class..
dunno tho, maybe were all being a bit harsh on him with regards to his consistency. His style of
play does allows us to play an immence 433 tho (carick, hargo & anderson.) Personally i feel
Big mike will only improve for us. Id def play hargo and aderson through the middle on sat tho!!
October 30th, 2007 at 20:27
the thing about football is that theres only one. . .and the consensus is that carrick is pretty damn good at getting it to the right players. . the only question is if anderson has proved that he can do the same over a longer period, he had a couple of passes on saturday that were just godawful. . i’m surprised no one is talking more about it. . i mean he had a decent game but i didnt feel he had quite as good a game as the previous two
October 30th, 2007 at 21:12
gerrard is a cheater mn
chelsea r ok, doin a bit crp tho
man u will miss sholesy experience but anderson is nang
October 30th, 2007 at 22:30
You are comparing Carrick with the wrong type of midfielders Grognard, he should be in the Alonso, Xavi and Pirlo grouping for comparison. As I have set before I believe SAF sees the potential for Gattuso/Pirlo style axis with Carrick and Hargreaves in CM. As for Carrick’s ability I think he has the necessary tools, I have seen him put MOM level performances against Roma, Chelsea and Arsenal. His biggest issues for me are the fact that he tends to be too subservient to Scholes when playing with him and he can still be a bit inconsistent. Whether the second of those traits can be knocked out of him I don’t know but the first shouldn’t be an issue for a while. He (and Hargreaves), for me, have done enough for the aforementioned partnership to get a fair crack of the whip.
As for being overrated he was victim of circumstance with regards to his price. Player ability plays a surprisingly small part in setting a transfer value (just look at Darren Bent). The reason he cost so much was that we were perceived as being desperate for midfielders (which was true), Spurs were in a good position, our other targets (Hargreaves, Gattuso etc) were turning up dead ends and Carrick wasn’t kicking up merry hell to get out of the club. He was a victim of the situation rather than being overrated.
Also, apologies if I’ve missed it earlier in the thread, but I noticed that Jaap Stam has retired, so all the best in the future to Jip Jaap Stam the big Dutchman.
October 30th, 2007 at 22:47
Oh God JB, you aren’t honestly comparing Michael Frakken Carrick to Andre Pirlo are you? Pirlo is world class while Carrick is middle class and trying to break out of his one bedroom loft. Hargreaves on the other hand is very comparable to Gattuso.
I realize that Carrick didn’t set the price for what he was bought for, but still, he has to live up to it in the minds of fans. Like I said before, he is a fine player but he isn’t the answer. United deserves and Andre Pirlo world class player play that position. Carrick is barely international class at best. Fergie spent too much for him and he blew it when it came to the LEGEND Jaap Stam.
And as for Stammer, enjoy your retirement mate. You were one fantastic defender and I for one thank you greatly for your contributions to United. Too bad those years you spent in the San Siro were not better utilized at Old Trafford.
October 30th, 2007 at 23:41
I am not comparing him to Pirlo in that sense Grognard, as Pirlo is as good as it gets in that role, however I am comparing them stylistically. While Carrick will probably never reach the same level as Pirlo doesn’t mean that he and Hargreaves can’t be turned into a very effective unit, as for me they are what a 4-2-3-1 requires in the engine room. I’m still not sure of Anderson’s long term role and remain unconvinced that it will be as a CM in a two man central midfield. Also Carrick has no obligation to anyone to justify his price tag, he did not set it. All he can and should do is to try his best, the people who are accountable for transfer values are SAF and David Gill.
Finally where the hell is all this grief for Ferdinand coming from (this isn’t just at you Grognard). What I saw on Saturday was Vidic losing his man, O’Shea not shepherding Tuncay to safety and Mr Orange failing to realise everyone else was playing an offside trap. Yet everyone still shouts, oh look Rio was dozing again, he is always losing concentration, despite the fact he was IMO well down the pecking order for responsibility.
Over the last 18 months he as made as few, if not fewer, mistakes than any other centre back in the world and for large chunks of that time he has looked nigh on bullet proof. He is certainly the last player I would worry about on Saturday and I would consider him to be easily our best big game performer since joining the club. If you want an example, just take a look at last year at Anfield to see a textbook example of the nigh on perfect defensive performance.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:19
Going back to the game at Arsenal on Saturday you are all talking about how Anderson will do but I for one dont think he will play from the start and I dont think Nani will either. I think Fegie may go for experience and protect them both - not that I agree with doing that! The team im expecting is -
————VDS————-
Brown—Rio—–Vidic—Evra
—-Fletcher—Hargreaves—
Ronaldo—–Tevez——Giggs
————Rooney———-
Subs-
Kuzciak
Pique
O’Shea
Anderson
Nani
October 31st, 2007 at 1:21
You know JB you’re screaming at the wrong guy about Rio. I am a solid Rio backer and I agree with almost everything you said about him except for that fact that he does occasionally make mistakes due to snoozing or lack of concentration. He never makes errors due to lack of ability and that is the real key. On Saturday you could argue that both he and Vidic were responsible for the goal but more importantly were the two very careless passes in his own third that he made. Fortunately they didn’t turn in to anything bad because Boro are a bunch tosser. If that was Arsenal or any other big club, we would have paid for it.
Now having said that, I just heard last night that he was going to be 50/50 health wise for the Arsenal game and that he tweaked the groin that bothered him at the end of last season. If indeed it was the groin that caused him to lose focus than I am very sympathetic as I know what it’s like to play with pain. So don’t get me wrong. I love Rio and I also included him my group of United players with grit. You could see how pissed off he was to be subbed off. The man is a gamer and he has lots of pride. Even if he has a bad game you’ll NEVER hear me say “Blame It On Rio”.