Apr 03
Should United keep Brown?
Sir Alex must have been behind plenty of transfers in his time in football. It adds up: a new centre-back every three years or so, countless midfielders, even more goalkeepers and a few strikers, but one position he has not touched in a while has been the right-back position.
Gary Neville has been a rock for United in that position for longer than I have been following football and when he is not there, then there was always a reliable back-up from the youth system who could step right in and do a half-decent job. He was usually replaced by his brother, Phil, but after he was gone, Wes Brown made the position of second-choice right-back his own.
Actually Brown is not really good as a right-back and could not challenge Vidic — who imposed himself as one of the most commanding centre-backs in the world — for the central defender position in two life times. He is therefore stuck as a second-choice player for Manchester United and it does not look likely that anything will change for him in the near future unless he leaves the club.
Thus, it can be safe to assume that Brown will be better off if he leaves the club. However Manchester United know that Brown is not unwilling to stay at the club — provided he is offered more money — and the decision they must now make is whether or not they should offer Brown the financial terms he demands to stay at the club.
Actually Brown finds himself in a good position. His contract expires this summer and he can move elsewhere for more football if he cannot force Manchester United to show him the money. So Sir Alex might be asking himself if Brown is worth the extra 30k per week he wants.
Brown has been performing at right-back all season and he has probably earned the rating “not a failure” for his efforts — which is hardly flattering. Given our relative impotence in this position and the fact that Neville has not kicked a ball for a year (and he is getting very old), we can safely assume Ferguson will go shop for a right-back this summer.
That will push Brown as third in the pecking order on the right side of the defence, though he will probably continue to be second choice behind Vidic and Rio. We all know that Brown is Man Utd quality at the heart of the defence, but Pique too is promising and O’Shea showed us that he can do the job on Tuesday. Then there is also that French lad, Silvestre. He is quite capable of being a back-up too.
So Brown is not exactly needed by the team when you think about it. He is a luxury. He is better than all other defenders in the team except Evra, Rio and Vidic. The impending arrival of Neville’s successor practically means that we will have the best second-choice defender in the league by a mile.
Is that kind of luxury necessary at the cost of another world-class player, because, if we do keep Brown, there will be less wages available this summer — and maybe less transfer funds?
So do you think we should keep Brown? Now I give you the keyboards.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United confirm new contracts for Brown, Ferdinand and Carrick
- Aston Villa 0-2 Manchester United: Ronaldo and Rooney complete a late win
- The Defensive Dilemma
- The Red Exodus | Rio Sure of Ron | Neville v Brown and Other Tales
- Aston Villa v Man Utd:Preview
Tags: Manchester United Players
Opti (542)
Stephen (500)
RedDevilEddy (462)
Craig Mc (349)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
If a player is good and leaves for more money (where he is getting the benifit) even though the club wants him, we call it treachery. Now if a loyal player wants to stay but the club allows him to leave because they can get a player of equal capabilities for cheap wages, why dont we call it a treachery in the part of the club?
Isnt loyalty a two way thing?
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So Shannon you are basically saying you would like your cake and eat it too, correct? Perhaps you should ask Wes Brown if he feels it’s in his best interest to play second fiddle again after finally cracking the first team. I rather doubt it.
Ciddu; I doubt very much that United will settle for a player of equal value to Brown. Both Lahm and Bosingwa are upgrades at that position. In fact, Hargreaves is an upgrade at that position. And it’s not treachery, it’s business. After all, the bottom line is winning. Loyalty is an overused and archaic term in the age when the Bosman Ruling has basically changed the sport from what it was. Loyalty is to the making of money and winning at all costs. It may sound cold and cynical but the fans prefer winning to loyalty too.
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truth be told, there are reasons to keep brown and reasons against, like we can play hargo at right back, but then that stretches our squad as we have 1 less cm( something we have been raving about i might add) but then that means andy carrick and scholes get more games, but that means there is more chance of injury. our best bet is to keep him or buy another right-back.
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Yes, fans are cold and cynical, and they are also hypocritical. But it’s the imperfections of the human mind. We won’t forgive Gaby Heinze because he wanted to go to Liverpool. At that time we will throw the “It’s a business” theory out of the window. Had John Terry played for us we’d be supporting him through the end of time. Of course, now I would say he’s a prick.
But all this comes alongwith being a fan. It’s how it works, and it adds to the whole point of being a fan. We are all a very tribal and hypocritical bunch — all because we love our club.
I know it may not answer your question Ciddu, but I guess I can’t think of a better answer.
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As you have said though he has plaid RWB for Bayern rather than RB, two distinctly different roles. His performances for us there have amounted to a decent 90 minutes against a crap Bolton team and half an hour against a broken Villa. He was bought to bring bite, tenacity and drive to the midfield and ensure we were not overrun like we were against Milan.
If we decide to play him at right back then IMO, we have just spectacularly pissed £18m down the drain and SAF really cocked up his transfer requirements. That money could have bought a world class dedicated, or hell it could have bought Anelka last summer and Hutton during the winter.
As for playing him there in the majority of games and moving him to midfield for the big games, that very much undermines the theory of playing a settled backline that has worked so well for us this year.
What he needs to do is up his game. The reason he has not got a place in the starting 11 is because he has not even approached the level of performance he showed against Portugal last summer or away to Milan in the spring. Or it could be his timekeeping
Please buy me an alarm clock!
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Grognard At a team like Manchester United i expect to get my cake and eat it to!
Sign up Brown, and after that Sign Lahm…
Let them fight it out!
On the subject of signings… I really like Veloso.. sign him to and then ship out Hargo.
Bang Bang!!
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Heck, we can even sell him back to lousy Bayern.
1-1 at home to Getafe?
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So Grognard, you say that football is just business!! End of story. Which means from next time a player (ala Heinze) plays the game of transfer request for more money, are you sure you wont bash him and call him names?
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Ciddu; If you go back as far as the Heinze affair you would read that I was a lone supporter of Heinze because i though he had been treated poorly by the club and because before his injury he was better than Evra. I had no problem with him wanting out because a player of his caliber deserves to start. What I had a problem with was him going to Liverpool Go play anywhere you want but United should never transfer players to Liverpool. To a lesser extent Chelsea and Arsenal. I have no problem with Brown and I definitely appreciate his years with the club as well as his contribution to our winning ways. But it is his agent who has stirred up the hornet’s nest and demanded more money. It’s he who has turned down a contract offered to him. As I see it, his greed is the problem, not United’s or my disloyalty to him. Lets not heap too much praise upon him for our fine season and great defensive record thus far. He has done well but he has also made numerous errors which most of the time Rio or Vidic correct.
Shannon; If you can’t see how great a player Hargreaves is, my arguing is not going to improve things. Go on believing what you want mate and you can wish all the Veloso’s in the world to come to OT. And you like Veloso. From what, the two times you have seen him play?
JB; You are attacking the topic from the viepoint of a chartered accountant. Who cares what they paid for Hargreaves. It’s done and get over it. Now it’s important to get value from him and that means by watching him play and contribute. You are a Carrick fan, you like Anderson and you were quick to jump all over me about Scholes (as well as Carrick) when I wasn’t on their bandwagon earlier this season. Well I have jumped on their bandwagon now and for the foreseeable future I don’t like seeing our midfield without those two starting. Problem is that Hargo is too good a player to be sitting the bench. He’s also incredibly proficient and flexible at playing a variety of positions. Therefore, it makes sense to utilize the money spent on him by playing him as much as possible. When we play a 4-5-1 he can play the holding midfield role, when we play more of an attacking style we can plug him in at RB or RWB. RWB is only different because it requires the player to have a little more speed, and desire to move up into the attack where he can pass, shoot or deliver crosses. Hargo is better at this than Brown and it would compliment the exact role Evra plays for us on the left side. In fact both Lahm and Bosingwa are known more as RWB’s than RB’s.
You continually frustrate me buy digging on his performance yet you forget that he has struggled with sever knee tendinitis for most of the season. Yet his performances have been fine with me. Of late, he has been outstanding which makes me wonder even more, why he doesn’t start more? The reason I feel is that Fergie is still protecting him from his knee problem flaring up and that an entire off season is needed to get him back to 100%. Having suffered elbow tendinitis on a few occasions (I used to pitch in baseball)I can speak from experience that tendinitis is a serious problem that needs time to disappear and it also needs as little strain to the area as possible during that time. It can also become a chronic problem if not monitored properly. Lets be fair to the lad. For what he does, he is world class and we should all be elated to have him. As for Shannon’t suggestion to sell him and buy the far inferior Veloso, I say BOLLOCKS!
And Red Ranter, I hope that wasn’t a veiled insult directed at me calling some fans hypocrites because they don’t possess the necessary fan loyalty to players that would elevate them to uberfans. Football is a business and every fan should wrap their head around that concept first and foremost. If the club doesn’t see the value of Brown like you do, get over it. I’m sure his agent has had a lot to do with their unwillingness to conform to his demands. Remember that I was the lione voice in the wilderness that felt Heinze got a raw deal at OT. And John Terry is a turd. Even if he played for us he’d be a turd. But, he’d be our turd.
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And Hargreaves does look a beast of a player at any position Fergie feels fit to place him. He’s that damned good. Too bad his injuries have not allowed most of you to realize it thus far. But you will. Of that I’m sure of. Health permitted of course.
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I’m fully aware Hargreaves is a very good player, but I have not seen it on display in the red shirt on anything like a consistent basis. There have been a few good performances, a couple of poor ones and a whole lot of average ones. Tell me this honestly, have any of the rest of you not been disappointed with him do date? He has run about, harried the opposition etc. But where is the immense drive and ability to grab a game by the scruff of the neck like he did against Milan at the San Siro or against Portugal? I haven’t seen a sign of it. We could have got a good terrier for a lot cheaper, the reason we played the £18m were for those extra qualities.
Now he may yet improve but he is nowhere near his full potential. Even if he is been protected from tendonitis he is being played very sparsely, so much so that surgery would surely have been the better option. At any rate Grognard I remember Scholes and Carrick getting very little slack on their returns from injuries. Yes he has made a couple of encouraging sub appearances against Villa and Roma, but the bottom line IMO is that he needs to step up his game. Hopefully with a clean, injury free pre-season he can.
P.S. I make a point of desperately trying to avoid bandwagons. I was never trying to get you on anyone’s bandwagon, simply to give the likes of Carrick a fair chance. Likewise I’m not jumping on one here. I’m not suggesting selling or shooting Hargreaves, I simply think he hasn’t played as he potentially can.
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bs to ship out hargo..he is a class..we will see ‘him’ next season..give him some time with his tendonitis then he will run riot with his tacklings..he even will tackle veloso hard if we ever play against sporting..lol
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JB..on current situation, yes we should play carrick and scholes more because both are in such a good form.but i think we should give hargo some time..i think we can only judge him next season as the rest will benifit him thanks to england not in euro 2008..
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[Grognard]
I think I made it clear in my comment that it wasn’t directed particularly at you. What I am saying though is, at some level we all are hypocrites like it or not. The ideas of loyalties, sports being business and all that crap can go out of the window if emotions get the better of us. And emotions do play a big part of us as fans.
That’s what I meant. If it is an insult to you, it would be as much an insult to me. But I won’t call it an insult at all.
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one of the skills in being a good manager is not only getting the best out of individual players, but also utilising the full squad so that your starting 11 is the best it can be at any given time. Thats why I agree with Grognard on the Hargreaves at RB point.
The form of Scholes and Carrick is keeping Hargo out at the moment and know one should have a problem with that, but if Hargo playing at RB would improve the team then he should be playing there no matter what or how much he was bought for.
Hargos drive, mobility, speed and all round capabilties are much suited for the wing back role and I think he could bring an extra dimension that Brown does not pocess to our play.
I have nothing against Brown, I just see room for improvement in an area that has the potential to provide the same virtues that Evra brings on the left side and that in my opinion is a change worth making.
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Fred the Red: I’ve no problem with SAF putting Hargreaves in at right back as a short term fix given the urrent situation. What I don’t want to see is s starting next season with Hargreaves as a first coice right back.
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JB, I agree with you mate, personally I would like to see Lahm or Alvez playing RWB at OT next year, but in the meantime hargo would be a more than able stop gap
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Red Ranter; No problem mate. No I wasn’t insulted and even though you said the comment wasn’t directed at me, it did look tailored to include me in it because of my previous comments. Still, not a problem at all as I am definitely not insulted in the least. I just wanted to point out to you that it did feel like you were thinking of me, even if you weren’t.
JB; I on the other hand have absolutely no problem with Hargo as a permanent RB/RWB for the club next season. I think he is more than tailored for the part and he would allow us to take the money that would be spent on Lahm or Bosingwa (I think Alves is going to Barca)as well as the money saved from losing Brown and put it towards a striker of quality or a backup to Ronaldo on the right side.
Also, I was hard on Scholes because his injury took long to recover from and because his age was a real negative point for me. My problem early on regarding Carrick was that his performances were inconsistent. That has changed over the last 15 games or so. It had nothing to do with an injury. As for Scholes, he has been a great player but I do see that he has slowed down quite a bit. Still his leadership, control of the game’s pace and his vision are invaluable until a replacement can take over without us skipping a beat. Just as long as he keeps the back passes to a minimum. Anderson is not ready and to be honest, I’m not sure he ever will be. He has dropped in form considerably every game for over a month now. Could be fatigue but I see great limitations in his game and he is an absolutely terrible shooter of the ball. I would feel that we would have seen much improvement in that area of his game since his debut, but that has not been the case. As for Carrick, he has done a fantastic job of playing a bit of a holder in midfield with a transitional passing game that gives us a strong attack. He can only get better with lots of playing time because you can see the gradual improvement in his game.
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The lack of injuries this season has blind all your judgment. We lose Brown we are losing two covered positions. 3rd Choice CB and 2nd Choice RB. You remember the season before were we had real injury issues that cost us the Champions’ League and probably FA Cup? Brown can’t go the way of Heinze I mean Heinze was never really replaced either…
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Abu; He’s replaceable, and for less money. A starter never takes to sitting on the bench as a sub well.
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Grognard: He han a starter at times for the club for long spells and has went back to being sub.
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Just finished watching Wes Brown hand our title race to whomever wants it, by conceding possession, space and goals to Middlesbrough. Turns out he’s also holding us hostage on his contract, hey? Right? Well, I guess that ends the question of whether we need to keep him? Maybe he can now fuck off and at the same time, the stars can fall from everyone’s eyes about our defence – when Vidic leaves, there is none. Ferdinand’s a fucking joke, all the over-wrought claims about his ‘anticipation’ notwithstanding (which I think are basically to cover up the fact that he doesn’t tackle) and the only real defender left is Evra, and he’s just not light-speed fast enough to to actually BE in three places at once, and cover the gaps left by EVERY_OTHER_FUCKING_DEFENDER we have on the field.
So Brown can fucking go and if he goes on a free transfer we’ll still be richer for it. Pity we can never make back the money we splurged on Ferdinand.
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oh, and, btw – hargreaves is fine. he can replace practically anyone in our defence for starters. he’s not getting a start because we don’t know what his real strengths are in relation to the other players and we don’t really have the games in hand to find out. we do know about scholes and carrick and the like. hence, they start.
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