Apr 22
So How Good Is Manchester United?
Please welcome, one of RR’s readers (and commenters), Conor.
Here we are again, crunch time, squeaky bum time, the big finale, the mutt’s nuts, whatever you want to call it. A day before probably the most important match of our season, followed by a match of equal importance, and it made me look back.
Rewind back one year to the day, and we had just drew against a team outside the top 6, and who we had recently struggled against, Middlesborough. The score was 1-1. Sound familiar? I haven’t even got started. This wobble couldn’t have come at a worse time, with a showdown against Chelsea fast approaching. Then, next up was a European giant, but sure who could beat us? We were top of the league and playing great football throughout. Certainly the old rusty legs of AC Milan couldn’t beat us, they couldn’t even beat half of the teams in their own ‘inferior’ league(if we are to believe the English media).
Or so we thought.
Two Champions League games later and we were unceremoniously dumped out of the Champions League, many of the goals coming from individual brilliance by Kaka. Compare that with now. We have just drawn 1-1 against a team we should be able
to beat, we’re playing Chelsea in less than a week, and we’re up against Messi, Eto’o, Iniesta and co. Does lightning strike in the same place twice? Yes. Will it this time? I very much doubt it. There are 3 major differences between now and then:
- We are not suffering from a mountain of injuries. Bar Fletcher, we have a full squad to choose from
- We now have a team capable of shutting down even the best teams possession-wise with Anderson and Hargreaves, as shown against Arsenal when these two played together
The second leg is at home, a big advantage in my opinion. It allows Sir Alex to gauge how cautious we should be. And none of this crap, “we are Manchester United, we don’t know how to sit back”, in Europe away we are negative, just like nearly every other successful Champions League team.
But this is not the main angle of this article; I then got into thinking about how good our team is now compared to last year. Sure our squad is better, Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Tevez have been great additions to the squad, but have we actually performed better as a team?
My answer is no. Last season we had our whole back 5 in the team of the season, with Scholes Giggs and Ronaldo ahead of them. We also had Giggs, Scholes and Ronaldo up in the PFA player of the year shortlist. This year we have Ronaldo in the shortlist. Now there’s no doubt he will be crowned PFA player of the year, and probably young player of the year. But that pretty much says it all, to an extent, Ronaldo has carried us. Rooney has been injured when this was meant to be his season, Giggs became a shadow of his 07/08 self, same goes for Scholes, Gary Neville hasn’t started a Premier League game and Van Der Saar has been shaky at times. We still don’t have a settled formation or settled central midfield, which can have its advantages and its drawbacks.
Now I’m not going to be all negative here so lets look at the improvements; Ronaldo has become the best player in the world hands down, Vidic and Ferdinand have become even more imperious, Evra has turned into one of the best left backs in the world and all of our signings have shown they will be able to provide something different to this team for years to come. But our team hasn’t played to its potential like it did last year, when we had to dig deep the whole team pulled themselves together and did everything they could, now we rely on Ronaldo to hold the team together with his superhuman strength when it is in danger of falling apart.
But we all know that Ronaldo can sometimes be marked out of games, however he has now improved in that aspect as he can still come up with the goals or assists even when he isn’t having the best of games; for instance, Roma at the Stadio Olimpico
and Arsenal at the Emirates this season. And so if we can’t score without Ronaldo being on song then we could be in trouble against Barca.
But after all this pessimism, just to keep the faith, I’m going for a 2-1 win at the Nou Camp and a 1-0 win at Old Trafford.
Related items from Red Rants:- Sky Sports Fixture Update
- Welcome to the best Manchester United blog in the world
- Manchester United don’t need Barton, can’t have Richards
- 5 reasons why Tevez needs Manchester United
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
Tags: Opinions/Columns
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:25
sounds like we’re a pretty shitty team, even if we are top of the tabel and in the semi-finals of the champions leauge, no? us united fans are waaay to spoiled!!!
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:25
Great article, i do agree to some aspects as the goals were more spread out last year and not so reliant on the three amigos - Tevez Rooney & Ronaldo. I also feel Carrick has improved to balance out Scholes’s dipping form this year. Last year we also had Saha fit for the first half of the season and he varied our play. I think its a bit harsh to say we performed better last year as a team, we have played differently this year maybe not quite as good as a team… which shows in the PFA listing. As for the game tomorrow we need a goal if not two to bring back and hopefully SAF does not go for this Rooney on the left wing cr4p!! Play nice and compact & bring on Tevez later like the second half against Roma in rome and we should get a score draw. “Follow Follow cos united are going to Moscow”
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:34
Fletcher has been named in the squad as well which is great news because he is a big game player and if he doesn’t make an appearance against Barca his recovery is a big plus to the title campaign and the second leg.
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:36
Well i for once beg to differ with the article in some aspects.
1]Yes we had Scholes, Giggs and Ronaldo in the PFA list and to me these were weaknesses in that we mainly relied on the brilliance of Ronaldo and the experience of the other two so there wasnt any place to praise the team whereas this season Ronaldo has been brilliant and the rest of th team has weighed in with somethingh special like the defence.
2]We havent lost a CL match this season but last season we lost to CELTIC, rOMA ,ac Milan
3]We have rotated our squad and all the players except Ronaldo has some records to break so as a team we are better as there some perfomances from all players.
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:04
Good article, but i’m more optimistic. I think this is United year in Europe, and England too!
United fan from Mostar , Bosnia & Herzegovina
ONE LIFE - ONE UNITED !
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:04
sometimes I wondered…what is a big team?I mean, which season could you call our team or any team BIG,GREAT?
Now, I know the answer. A big team is one that allows creativity but never loses…..Understood? No? Our last year’s team was not a great team.mot a mature one. We were the best in England and we were playing the best football in Europe. This means that we had the first of the two points I mentioned above. We were a very good creative team. But still…there was something missing…this year we have something great. MATCH WINNERS THAT DON’T ALLOW THEIR SELVES TO LOSE.
Can you think of the great European teams? Their players are not connected with great passes ,like we did last year when we were immature, but they ‘re connected with SPIRIT. TEAM SPIRIT. Back and front.This year we have a Hargo , a greater Ronaldo , a mature-European Rooney PLUS This year our defence is THE BEST IN EUROPE . I remember Terry Carvalho Cech were the Best. Now Vida Rio Edwin are th best. THEY ARE UNBEATABLE
So,what we need to win the european trophy? it’s the defence. We got it. It’s a matter of luck maturity and passion. Barcelona never had a great threat in Europe this season.
This year we are one of those bastard-teams that rarely go one down but even if we do we have the “creativity” of Ron Roo Tevez Nani. Like last year’s Milan . Impressive defence+KAKA+PIPO = UCL winners. Now MUFC will be the winners of the UCL cause …you know…
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:41
From all Barca fans around the globe, good luck guys. I truly hope to see a fantastic match of football, argubly two of the best teams in the whole world that share a massive mutual respect for each other.
Visca el Barca..
Glory Glory, Man Utd..
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:47
Good one Conor. I dunno what to say…. after bottling it so many times… I will speak after the game. My heart is beating twice the rate it normaly does.
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:00
Decent article Conor,
All I can say is this: Does the best team in Europe or the team that play the most exciting football always win the Champions League? The answer, you may agree is no. So I am not far too concerned about how certain teams are performing within their own leagues or even the early stages of the European Cup.
Manchester United and Barcelona’s records in the Champions League this season are exactly the same. So it only matters what happens on the night, who stands up on the night and who performs to their potential.
i LOVE MUfc
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:19
I just hope we don’t afford Barcelona too much respect.
Too many times we have played too defensive and offered too much respect and been caught out.
I think if United went out there and played with no fear they could wein 3-0!
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:21
great way to tone down the enthusiasm before a big set of games - now we won’t feel so bad if we bottle it, and we’ll be over the moon if we make it
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:08
this season has seen Rolando rise to the occasion,the new boys have become a major force,and maybe fergie made good buys.you cant fault him anywhere.
my major disappointment has been Rooney.at 23,he is no longer a youngster.he was supposed to take over especially with a good rest.
against Blackburn,he was useless.trying to get sent off by blatantly diving in the box,clattering an opponent,arguing with the ref all that when you are 1-0 down was lunacy.that has been his story of the season.
the old guards have shown why we cant rely on their experience and wisdom anymore.though they still have a role to play,it should be from the bench.giggs enough has been said about him.scholes started poorly,got injured,came back worse,then the game against a ten man Liverpool fooled the manager to call him vintage.against serious opposition,it is another story.
our defence cant be faulted.
my verdict?we are better than last season
p.s Rolando has taken us to the top,tevez has kept us up there.
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:28
Rolando?
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:32
I think barca will play 3 strikers like always do which will allow our 5man midfield walk right past them its gonna be a good game and prefrebly we go away with a simliar scoreline to the roma game I think rooney tevez and ronaldo are gonna cause their AVERAGE defense problems!
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:35
Rolando Bianchi.
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:37
ronaldo
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:39
Here’s hoping Ronny’s in-form for the coming weeks, he’s looked a little forlorn during the past couple.
I think the Blackburn result may have lifted an element of pressure, hopefully the team plays with a bit more confidence than they have of late. The pressure seemed to be getting to them, mistakes were creeping in and the passing was uncharacteristically poor at times.
Concentration and professionalism are needed for the run-in and I reckon they’ll get it together. Here’s to a CL victory over the vermin in Moscow and a PL crowning at Stamford Bridge!
April 22nd, 2008 at 13:42
Just a thought here. I don’t think many will agree with me, and probably I won’t agree with myself too (hmm.. somewhat of a contradiction) but anyways, don’t you guys think that maybe, and I stress on maybe, leaving Rooney on the bench for the first leg at camp nuo would be fruitfull for us !!
Why and how?
Well for starters we all know how passionate the boy is, fire in his belly like no other player. We also know he has been somewhat tame infront of goal as of late. So maybe leaving him on the bench and using Carlito instead (quite like the opposite of SAF’s strategy lately), would initially baffle Messi and Co.
Also, Tevez is on an incredible run lately, more like a saviour to be honest, infact more so than CR currently, might grasp this privellege and give us all a display to remember.
And if things aren’t going the way we intend after that, then introduce the burning and definatly raring to go Wayne half way through the second interval. We might finally witness a Rooney that can score the difficult goals (e.g. his volley against newcastle).
Finally, I really have this gut feeling that Rooney will be red carded if he starts. He has been rather fiesty lately and perhaps lucky to have escaped the refree’s book (latest e.g. b burn).
Don’t get me wrong here. I am a great fan of Rooney. He’s number one. But not close to being bigger than Manchester United FC.
Again just thinking loudly of how to confuse the opponent and re-ignite Rooney’s proven scoring abilities and give the ever versatile Argentinian a chance to prove what he can do up front alone.
P.S. I still can’t beleive I wrote this.
April 22nd, 2008 at 14:28
Whatever, he should just not start with giggs and scholes.
April 22nd, 2008 at 14:31
i agree rooney would be a little more effective from the bench remember villa? but i really feel playing him on the left instead of nani or giggs and tevez up front would be the best formation with ronaldo on the right and hargo anderson and carrick in the midfield shows that we are defensively strong and strong in attack and to have nani park giggs and scholes and fletcher on bench we should be equipped to destroy barca!
April 22nd, 2008 at 14:35
When you read barca’s blogs, you can understand why the team is more concerned about Rooney than Ronaldo. He is more matured now, and he never stops running on the field…. He should be on the field every second IMHO.
April 22nd, 2008 at 15:05
samphraim,they are scared because they dont watch united.most will agree that RVN never run at the opposition but he would hurt teams.kaka,zidane,they all dont run alot.
would you rather mark torres,thierry,berbatov,etoo,adebayor?i thought so.
April 22nd, 2008 at 15:25
samphraim, thats exactly my point, if they are concerned of Rooney more, then why not confuse the shite out of them and keep him on the bench for a while, so why not surprise them by starting Tevez. He’s mature, he’s also running all over the field non stop, as well as netting in the goals, of which, you have to agree, Rooney isn’t doing right now.
All I’m trying to prove here is that maybe this tactic might baffle our opponents, because we all know that in this stage of the competition its all about the tactical aspect of teams, otherwise how the hell did Liverpool win it recently!!!
One more thing, I reiterate, no one at all is bigger than MUFC.
April 22nd, 2008 at 15:37
Viresh, thats an excellent example of what I meant by the “surprise” factor. His effort at Villa was one of his best performances this season. Why? because he surprised them tactically. Maybe he can come on at 63 mins and lift our team if need be. I just hope that we recognise the fact that its not about playing sexy football, but its now about winning via a sound tactical strategy from the very capable SAF.
April 22nd, 2008 at 15:40
Since when does anyone rate players on wether or not they are on the PFA shortlist? I think we can all agree that there are always a few undeserving names on that list, for instance, Gerrard this year, who has been subpar, even by his own account. Other than the lack of goalscoring from outside of Ronaldo, Rooney, and Tevez, our squad has been excellant. Look at our goal differential, and find me any club in Europe with a better margin. Our Defense, although injury ridden lately, has been the best in Europe BY FAR. It is unrealistic to think we will win every game, and sometimes knicking a goal against a side like Rovers and pulling out a draw when we are not firing on all cyclinders is the best you can ask for. I would love to see us win the Champions league, and I feel we have the squad to do it, but its not like our season will be a failure without winning it(although I would be elated if we did).
April 22nd, 2008 at 15:55
Great post I agree, this team is the most talented but imho they have never clicked. Part of it could be aging veterans, I also think Rooney has struggled this year cause he is never able to enjoy a long spell of match fitness.
April 22nd, 2008 at 16:20
I’ve just heard SAF on Sky saying he doesn’t see us as favourites tomorrow. This actually makes me more confident of a win, strangely enough. We need to be cool, calm, and business-like. No unnecessary bravado. I agree, if Wayne loses his rag, it could be a huge problem. And please God, don’t start Giggsy. And one more thing, God, please let Vida be a rock.
April 22nd, 2008 at 16:20
Nah, I think putting Rooney on the bench is gonna further infuriate him and I don’t think that’s a good idea for someone as intense as Roon. Let him start (if he is 100% fit that is) and play his natural game. I do believe the subs will be the difference in this match, if we are to win it.
April 22nd, 2008 at 16:25
i dont agree completely, for the last few games yes, we have not been in the greatest of form, but towards end of march to the beginning of april, we where in the best form i’ve seen in ages, then we played one of our bogey teams and our form dropped, but we have definitely improved since last year.
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:01
“Rooney seems to get frustrated as lone striker drops deep starts tackling then gets carded. Tevez may hold the ball better. Personally I wish and hope SAF plays all three Tevez, Rooney
and Ronaldo”
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:12
I just read something startling and unbelievable. Philip Lahm’s contract extension negotiations with Bayern Munich have broken down and it looks almost certain that he will be leaving Bayern at season’s end. This looked highly unlikely just a day ago because of how much Bayern valued his contribution as well, the prospect of Klinsmann managing the club next season. Klinsmann and Lahm are very close and so this news is shocking but it opens the door wide for both United and Barca to move for him. Barca will offer top dollar to get him. Question is, how much is United willing to offer the Germans for his services. Before the Hargreaves transfer debacle the two clubs had a very friendly and cooperative relationship. As well, Fergie and Hitzfeld are good friends as is Sir Bobby Moore and Beckenbauer. Can these ties and a little friendly persuasion help get us our man? Lahm would be an outstanding coup in the transfer market this year.
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:18
Amazing news! It’s just what we need, although Brown’s new contract may not be so helpful any more. Only SAF knows.
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:24
If this team have never clicked yet, God help the premiership when they do lol. Let’s face it, considering most teams play against us like rampant maniacs on speed, and never seem to put up similar fights against other top teams, I’d say we have done pretty darn good!. There are some games, away from home ones especially, WE NEED TO PLAY OUR COMBATANTS IN MIDFIELD. Giggs and Scholesy have not been amongst them this season sorry. Some of you may disagree with me, but I don’t think Carrick is too bright at defending, he is not strong and sturdy enough!. Rooney is not the best example of the perfect striker either, he has this season been, when ‘one on one’ with the goalie, a many times LOSER - sorry folks, but anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. All in all, with all the swopping and changing by Fergie, I don’t think we have done too bad this season. If anywhere needs to be improved on, it is still midfield, because something seems to be missing still. Our defence and forward lines are strong, but the midfield lacks something for me. In only a few games this season, have our midfield controlled the game. This needs seeing too!.
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:34
Dan; the best form you’ve seen us in in a while, during April? We didn’t have one particularly good performance this month, but many great results(2-0 away at Roma, 2-1 at the Emirates, 1-0 against Roma with basically a reserve team). At the end of March we did have 2 great performances against the scousers and Villa, but we were in better form in October when we won all of our 5 games and scored 17 goals while doing so. Or in January when we won all of our 6 games scoring 16 goals and only conceding one. I am not basing the article on form, we have had a great season as a whole, I just thought that last season more people performed to their peak last season than this season. Saha was great, Rooney had his best season goal-wise, Scholes and Giggs were majestic, Ronaldo was the player of the year and young player of the year, in Vidic and Evra we had unearthed gems, and Gary Neville, Rio and VDS were a commanding trio at the back. This season has been great, we still play great football and have the best defence in the league, and our squad is quite obviously better and more equipped to compete on both fronts this season. I just thought that with the team we had this season compared to last season, it underperformed just slightly. I still very much believe we will win both the Champions League and the Premiership, beating Chelsea to end their home record and then beating them in the final to show them how to win matches and be even remotely attractive to watch.
I thought it was all negative feedback there for a moment 
johnsom33;thank god someone agrees with me
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:38
Well its time for the team to show up now.I think were the best team left in the competition.But that doesnt mean nothing and if we go out then were all going to feel like shit just like last year and continue to live in hope.What the team needs now is to fight.If the likes of ronaldo and carrick get their heads down tomorrow then were screwed.But this season we have extra heart in anderson,hargreaves,tevez and nani.They must fight.Rooney will be our keano.
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:50
Grognard,ive only ever watched lahm once or twice and that was in the world cup when he scored the first goal but dont you think if we bought him our defence would be rather short?Evra and lahm on the flanks would just invite teams to hoof the ball.Is he any good in the air?
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:52
Just seen on sky that brown is doubtful for tomorrows game.Gary neville?
April 22nd, 2008 at 17:55
This present team is still a work in progress. Have they reached their best? Not by a long shot. They are in a transitional period where some old Grognards are slowly being phased out and a new wave of youth is taking over. This creates moments of imbalance and and tired play but overall, this is still a great club with the potential to become an outstanding powerhouse for years to come. some might argue that we are already, and those feelings would have merit, but United are still capable of so much more. Have Anderson, Nani, Ronaldo, Rooney, Park, Carrick and Tevez reached their peak yet? I think not. all those players have years left in their careers in which they can continue to mature. learn and get better.
Manchester United right now is the classic blueprint on how to build a team properly. They spend big to buy players, fair enough, but unlike Chelsea, they are not limiting themselves to the short term fix as well, so many of the players they buy are youth projects with exceptional potential. And some like Hargo and Tevez are veteran players with experience and the ability to show up and contribute immediately. Chelsea has no idea what a youth movement looks like. Arsenal have no idea what experience and grit look like. Liverpool, well they are basically a two man team, a rotation, a roster of poor signings and a prayer. United are the perfect blend. They have a strong youth movement, fantastic players with loads of experience and a couple of players that can carry a club if needed. They also have a manager who knows how to best blend this ensemble together and have them work to the best of their current abilities. His requirement is to fully commit to the club and he rewards his player’s faith in him by using offensive and entertaining tactics and also using a unique and very effective squad rotation system that doesn’t look ridiculous or over done. Everybody has a role to play and the atmosphere and attitude at the club is second to none. This not only breeds winning but longevity and the desire for all involved to want to stay with the club and improve.
A much heard criticism of the club is that we are a one man team fully reliant on Ronaldo. Well although that might seem true on occasion, we are structured to bring out the best in specific players up front. Ronaldo may not have developed to the level that he has under the tutelage of anyone other than Ferguson and Queiroz. And whatever club he plays for in the future would probably end up looking very similar to critics because his skills force so much of the play to funnel in towards him. It’s very natural. If we had a striker who could take some of that attention away from him and focus defenders a little more in the penalty area, then we would become even more dangerous. In fact, I believe we would be more awesome if Ronaldo score 35% fewer goals and a new striker opened a second route to goal that doesn’t always pass through Ronny. Rooney and Tevez are great and their work rate is second to none, but they do not command the double marking and physical play that Ronaldo must endure. Do you not think a presence like Huntelaar, Benzema, Toni, Gomez etc, would not free him up a bit to showcase his skills even more? I sure do.
At present if we look at all the world’s club teams as uninjured and with full rosters I’d say United are the best club on the planet. However, they are not currently miles ahead of the competition. Healthy versions of Arsenal, Chelsea (even with AV Grant), Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan and Bayern Munich can all make a claim to being the best. Some have had a lot of injuries or team unrest in the dressing room that have hurt or in some cases derailed promising seasons. Bayern isn’t even in the Champions League but their roster and depth is second to none in Europe. Barca have been decimated with injuries as has Real, AC Milan, Arsenal and even Inter. Liverpool might get into the CL final but in my opinion their domestic inabilities tells me that they are not on the same level as these teams I have mentioned. They are quality but still just a pretender.
United have also had injuries but for the most part we have managed to be fairly free of serious injuries (except for Fletcher and Balsa Boy Saha) since Rooney’s return. We have dodged bullets with Vidic, EVDS and a few others. So luck and being healthy has a lot to play in this game as to who is the best. Nobody is going to convince me that last year’s AC Milan club that knocked us out were better than us. They just met us at the wrong time when we were overextended, tired, injured and thin in depth.
If Manchester United do win the European Cup and also win the BPL, there is no doubt about whether they are the best. And the great news is that they have the capabilities and potential to become even better and more dynamic than they are now. A striker who can poach, a RWB like Lahm and physical and very gritty CMFers like Gattuso or even Veloso would go a long way in making us the kings of Europe and the World for years to come, regardless of what other teams do. Our core nucleus of talent and our manager, coaches and trainers are second to none, and that’s the way it should be in my not so humble and slightly biased opinion.
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:06
Lets look at recent games and understand Ronaldos problem. Space. He is not given space because our other winger Giggs is slow, lazy and disturbs the flow of our play. But look at when Nani plays. Ronaldo is given a lot more space. When Nani and Ronaldo have played in the same game, we have won by a very large margin. This is because, we undersestimate Nani as a player. Nani came on on saturday and changed the whole game. Ronaldo was given more space. Secondly, without Anderson in our midfield we dont cover as much area and we lack bite at times but scholes covers up for possession. But Anderson is the way foward. How many times this season has he been the man of soo many mathces? Park ji sung is not still fit enough as he has energy but ball touches and passes elude him. This team when in top gear, are feared by any team. I told my boy the other day to combine real madrid, barcelona, chelsea, arsenal and liverpool and they wont be able to smell us. rather than complain, believe in our boys. THIS IS OUR YEAR AND WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE DOUBLE. WHO IS BETTER THAN US?
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:10
James f; Brown’s new contract is one thing, but remember that Neville’s (which is much higher) will be running out soon.
Taehr; Lahm is surprisingly proficient in the air and much better than Evra. They both like to attack and go forward but how many times to you see Evra get caught up field? Not very often. It’s the same with Lahm. In fact Lahm is probably a little more cautious than Patrice. He is also a much better crosser of the ball. Both of them are equal in the dribbling department and in pace. He would be a major asset to this side as he will offer us two wings to attack from as well as not hurting us defensively.
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:13
totally agree to what craig says!!!
In my view its not the lack of goals from striker position but the midfield thats source of concern. the quartet of Carrick, OH, Scholes & Fletch have a grand total of 4 goals in the league if I can remember correctly! Thats outright pathetic. And people here have been slagging Gerrard (21 in all competitions, 10+ in the league)!!!
I would add a goal scoring ACM to the squad (someone like Van der Vaart, at 25 he is the right age and will not be very expensive unlike Benzema/Huntelaar) Just notice how everything changes with his addition (Play attacking 4-3-3):
Strikers: Rooney & Tevez first choice (Saha (hehe), Manucho/Park to cover for injuries
Wide Right/Left: Ronaldo (Nani & Giggs to cover/rotate)
Basically rotate all these in front 3 positions
Midfield: VDV as ACM (with Carrick/Scholes as cover). This would make Carrick work even harder and not take things for granted. Presently he has no competition for his place in the team! Also sell Fletcher for his own good as at 24 he should be playing more (he is good enough to be a first teamer in most EPL teams)
Play duo of Andy & OH behind in holding roles, OH as Libero and Andy as destroyer-cum-attacker (a la Seedorf!) Carrick & Scholes to deputise for these whenever required.
Usual back 4 (perhaps Neville will come back as he is the captain! Brown/OH can cover for him. JOS,Pique,Brown can cover for fullbacks and JOS/Silvy as cover for Evra (admittedly the only weak position if Evra not available)
GK: VDS, Foster, Kuzie (or his replacement as he doesnt strike me as a Man Utd player! His kicking is really pathetic but has good reflexes)
Now tell me where is the place for a world class young striker you guys are shouting for! And who sits on the bench if Benzema/Hunter comes in? Would you buy them (20m+ buys) and make them sit on bench or bench tevez (after his 20 goals season with us with so many crucial goals and his workrate) or rooney (come on who benches rooneys of this world?).
Basically I identify midfield as problem area (that is attacking threat from midfield) and have tried to solve that with just one aquisition. This way we dont destabilise core of the team (The Roon-Ron-Tev-OH-Rio axis) and add more attacking threat to already one of the best attacking sides in the world!
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:14
Barca has good attacking forwards but weak in defence and that will be an advantage for MU to score goals.
With Vidic, Rio, Wes Brown (Pique) and Evra in defence it is not easy for Barca strikers to score goals and the only chance they can is thru 20 or 30 meters free kicks.
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:30
It’s a good question, and hints at the bigger philsophical one - what makes a team great? Is it silverware? Performance? Potential? There are always exceptions to rules, IMO:
Chelsea circa 3/4 years ago were awesome, but they never won the CL - were they great? I actually think that team that broke the prem record for points was pretty damn good.
Liverpool circa 3/4 years ago were rubbish, but they did win the CL - were they great? Probably not.
Barcelona this year have, on paper, one of the best squads ever assembled - but they’ve underperformed - are they great because they have great players?
United are, hopefully, a bit of all of those, but potentially none of them too. I think we have a very good squad, though I would argue strongly that Barcas and indeed Chelseas are in fact better, and that we’re only even with most top starting XIs. We do have great team spirit, and have shown alot of character which teams like Arsenal have lacked. We have the opportunity to win the two most precious pieces of silverware we could aspire to. If we do, then maybe we can talk about greatness. But for me it only comes with all three - silverware, performance and players.
It’s all potential right now - but, in two weeks time it might be potential realised. And if it is, then who knows what next year will bring!
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:34
Jos; Look around you mate. In places like Inter, AC Milan, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Roma etc. All these teams have quality strikers who are either better to or close to the skill of Tevez and even Rooney sitting on the bench or being rotated regularly. Depth at striker at this level is vital and if players can’t handle the interests of the team over their own personal interests, then ship them out and bring in players who will accept the status quo.
I like Carlos Tevez a lot, but I feel there are strikers who are much better than him at scoring goals. Yes he is a scorer of big goals and his style is very tenacious and energetic. All the more reason to use him primarily as a super sub, when you need that energy and hunger against a tired opponent late in a game. It’s really common sense. By the time you get to that point, a quality striker may have potted a goal or two anyway. Depth is vital. I’ll say it over and over and please, nobody throw in the healthy Louis Saha or the even more fantastical Manucho or Welbeck alternatives. It’s just not a viable option. We need quality, experience and healthy return at that position. I won’t mention names as everyone is probably sick and tired of hearing them. Just sign one for crying out loud already.
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:52
Jos; you have said the same thing over and over again about getting an attacking midfielder, preferably Van Der Vaart. But think about it, how many top teams have a player like this? Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Inter, Barca, Bayern Munich don’t. The only team that does is AC Milan with Kaka, but even he plays just behind the striker rather than in a midfield role. Sneijder also does this sometimes for Real, again often behind the striker. Then look at where Van Der Vaart actually plays, behind the lone front man. That would mean us taking out either Rooney or Tevez to properly accommodate him. And your theory of playing Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo as a front three and let them roam about just doesn’t work, we would either leave one wing too open or we would have Rooney or Tevez playing out of position, it just doesn’t work this way.
April 22nd, 2008 at 18:54
grogy
can you name for us who are the better-than-tevez “young” strikers in all the clubs you have named, Real, ACM (do they even have any young players in their side???), Inter etc?
In any case, you are living in the past. The game has moved on from set role days to more flexible complete player roles now (at least the game as played by present man utd team) and in that sense there arent many players in the world who can claim to be better than Tevez.
And heres a hypothetical poser for you. Suppose Tevez scores the winner for us in CL final. Would you still bench him next season
If you still insist for more striker cover, then we should go for a very good third choice striker to sit on bench and come and score goals (new Ole), not a 20-30m young striker coz thats not gonna work. at 23-24 years top players would want to play all the time (alongwith team they have to look for thier own career with national teams as well). So if Benzema/Hunter comes, then one of tevez/rooney will definitely leave and we’ll be back to 2 strikers. And Benzema/Huntelaar/Gomez are totally unproven in England. Why take a 20-30m risk and chuck out a great player who has been brilliant for us this season with all his crucial goals. Rather lets go for a more experienced third choice striker who doesnt have to worry about playing for national side (so can be happy to sit on the bench - how does Owen sound
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:12
conor
well vdv is scholes replacement (to bring back old scholsey days). liverpool have Gerrard as their outstanding ACM, Chelsea has Lampard (even in his worst season he has scored 17-18 goals; has outscored all of our midfielders put together), Milan have Kaka and Arsenal have Febregas (who has scored a lot this season and looks good for future as well). I dont follow Inter/Bayern at all so cannot say about them.
We have played 4-3-3 quite a lot this season (3 of rooney, ron, tevez, giggs etc) and havent really conceded that many goals? In any case theres OH & Andy to shore up things behind. Thats why this system has two holding guys (only thing we are blessed with a player like andy who can contribute more than just defence).
Frankly its just an exercise to cover up for one big fraility in the team which is “scoring threat” from the midfield.The attackers have had a very fine season but we have had only 4 goals from 5 midfielders! Thats outrageous and criminal!
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:22
Van Der Vaart is Scholes’ replacement? First it was Carrick, then Anderson, now Van Der Vaart. There will never be another Scholes, his composure on the ball and ability to create space is and always has been second to none, and people just can’t learn how to do that. Gerrard again plays behind the lone striker, not in a midfield 3. Lampard is not an attacking midfielder, he is very much a box to box midfielder to makes great late runs. Fabregas is just a very creative midfielder controller, but not an attacking midfielder in the sense of a Van Der Vaart or Kaka. They play in a 4-4-1-1 behind the striker, essentially as the supporting striker. And your argument towards Grognard about us having to drop Tevez or Rooney if we bought a new striker is slightly hypocritical seeing as you are talking about buying Van Der Vaart and immediately dropping Carrick, one of our best players this season.
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:28
Hoho..Scholesy in different class of his own..Not a one player can be compared with him..One of the best footballing brain the world had seen..
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:34
Conor; What are you saying mate? Gerrard, Ballack, Lampard, Deco, Kroos, Ribery are all attacking midfielders and other than the last three are also goal scorers. You are floating down the river without a paddle on this one I’m afraid. In fact, all the players I mentioned above other than Kroos and Deco are better than your very overrated and highly inconsistent Van Der Vaart. Ask yourself why he can’t even be named a regular on the Dutch National team? He sleeps through many games.
Jos; Pato, Podolski, Anelka, Raul, Robinho, Inzaghi, Gilardino, Higuain, Crespo, Bojan, Vucinic are just a few names of players in that category. These players are all quality but aren;t first choice when everybody is healthy. And I would take the potential of Podolski, Pato, Higuain, and Bojan over Tevez any day. That’s not a knock on Tevez but he does have major holes in his game as do some of the players I mentioned. Imagine how many teams would sit a Hernan Crespo down or an Alexander Pato?
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:36
one says; “the world HAD seen” is the key part of your sentence. Scholes today is a shadow of his formal self so lets not open up that can of worms.
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:41
Grognard; I don’t want Van Der Vaart, I see no need for him. I want a striker, jos wants a central attacking midfielder. You misinterpreted what I meant.
April 22nd, 2008 at 19:48
Grogs
What has Pato or Higuain done to label them better players (or even strikers) than Tevez???
And Anelka, Raul, Inzaghi, Crespo are not 23! They are well past their sellby dates (except Raul but he wont leave Real). So they can sit on bench for megabucks (as they have no longer any long term future with their national sides).
Similarly Bojan hasnt been better than Tevez this season (goal per game ratio of Tevez is better and has he scored as many crucial goals?)
In any case Tevez is our player and I’ll stand by him.
By the way, whos Podolski? Same guy who stole outstanding WC young player award from Ronaldo!!! Whats he doing these days?
April 22nd, 2008 at 21:42
Quick thought: If the Toad manages to take Chelsea to Moscow, will their Russian owner whip up a media frenzy before the final and try his best to get as many locals as possible into the stadium, just to get behind a Russian owned team? If so — and assuming we qualify — how would we fare? In that case would you rather play Chelsea than Liverpool?
April 22nd, 2008 at 21:47
RR; I would take Chelsea over Liverpool in the Champions league any day! And thanks to Riise thats the way it looks like it could be
. In truth I think Barcelona are the best team left in the Champions League except us, and if we get past them I fully expect to get past them in the final. I think we got lucky in a way, because over 2 legs I see Chelsea and Liverpool being tougher opponents than Barca, but in a one off Barcelona would be the hardest team to beat as they have the quality to beat anyone on their day.
Grognard; there is no way that Higuaín is even nearly as good as Tevez, same goes for Vucinic and then Gilardino to a lesser extent. Inzaghi, Anelka and Crespo are now at a stage in their career when they can’t start every game. Robinho and Raúl have started the majority of games for Real this season. Pato has also been a regular starter for Milan since he came to them, bar missing a few matches due to injury. Bojan and Podolski still aren’t of the quality of Tevez. And I’m sure none of these players would come to us just to be regular starters on the bench(other than Inzaghi, Crespo and Anelka due to their age).
April 22nd, 2008 at 21:51
Grognard..agree with you about VDV..what we need now is not a midfielder, but rather a right back and a striker to replace saha. i read in soccernet todat about Lahm deciding to go abroad..hope SAF is aware of this and make a quick move to get him..as for striker, maybe we should just wait and see manucho first..after evaluation of some months, if he screwed it up we can think of the replacement in january..
April 22nd, 2008 at 21:58
Conor; Sorry about that. I meant the comment for Jos.
Jos; Pato has the ability to become ten times better than Tevez. Higuain is a good goal scorer too and he is more prolific at scoring goals, if not as clutch. Really there is not point arguing this point with a die hard United fan that cannot possibly comprehend the fact that there are other players on other teams better than some of the players on his beloved team. Your leanings are bias and that’s OK. But I’m sorry, Tevez is not the second coming of Gerd Mueller either. He’s a very good player but he is not an outstanding player nor is he an outstanding goal scorer. His attributes have to be looked at and weighed properly. His best pay comes late in games (after 65 minutes played) when opponents are tired and his energy, constant physical running and desire are tremendous attributes. That is when he becomes more of a threat to score goals as well as the time in a game when he shows the most ambition to score. Before the 65th minute he is very average and at times quite invisible. In fact I’d be interested in knowing how many of his goals come in the second half. I’d bet that 75% of them are after the break.
As for Podolski, he is an outstanding young talent with great skills. He has been inconsistent this year due to injuries and the presence of superior players in Klose and Toni. Podolski has come on in the last three weeks and has been the preference over the out of form and injured Klose. He has scored and set up quite a few goals since then. He needs to play and unfortunately he is in a numbers game. Unlike Tevez, he does not play well as a sub. But his being named World Cup Most Outstanding Young Player was no fluke. I watch every game that he plays so I feel I know of what I am talking about here as I do with Lahm and Huntelaar.
Bojan is looked at as superstar in Barca. He’s not just a good player. He is also a teen and so to compare his relative inexperience with that of Tevez is woefully unfair. Yet he scores a lot of goals for someone of his age. Imagine what the future holds. He and Messi are the future of Barca, not Eto, Ronaldinho or Henry.
You are also being very harsh on the other players because their only mistake is going to teams to be part of championships and more money. On most teams they would be every day starters. These great clubs like to horde talent and like the depth and don’t give a damn about the hurt ego’s on the bench. And none of them are past their sell by date. Many teams would love to have them. The question is how much would they cost?
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:04
chelsea are the most luckiest team i have ever seen.they got an away goal out of nothing.lucky bastard
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:05
Conor; It’s not necessarily that they are better than Tevez but that they are quality strikers all caught on deep teams who use them as subs or in a rotation. Raul would not be the first choice if RVN was available. And I would take Pipo Inzaghi over nearly any striker in Europe even if he was 50. The guy is the quintessential blueprint for what I call a goal poacher. And he has formed a tremendous partnership of late with young Pato. Watching that guy score garbage goals, tap ins and beating the off side trap time and time again is fantastic. He has said he has patterned his style after his idol Gerd Mueller and it shows. Very similar styles of play without having to be physically imposing.
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:10
What was Riijse trying to heading that ball out when iot was landing at his feet without needing to stretch? Just a stupid play and yes Ebrahin, they are an incredibly lucky team because they show very little to get excited about in games but somehow always scrape out a result and rarely lose. Their brand (or should I say bland) of football is a disgrace and an abomination to the game. If they were to win the League and the CL, it would set back the standard of football ten years.
They disgust me. What disgusts me even more is that my second favorite player Ballack plays for them. That’s hard on the eyes and the heart. At least they were semi-respectable and tolerable under Mourinho.
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:13
Grognard: This is Gonzalo ‘10 goals in 55 appearences for Madrid’ Higuain we are talking about isn’t it? If we had a striker with that strike ratio you would have a coronary
Grass is always greener and all that. And I know you are going to tell me alot of those appearences were as sub but I have been unimpressed the vast majority of times I’ve seen him.
Ohh and on Inzaghi beating the offside trap. He does that because he spends 95% of his life standing offside. The law of averages mean the assistant referees occassionally take sympathy on him
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:33
They have the best player in the world but that guarantees nothing. Arsenal play beautiful football and they are out. Liverpool play shite football and they give up an away goal today. The boys shouldn’t take Barca lightly.
April 22nd, 2008 at 22:59
[Best Player]
Nice blog you have there mate! Good concept. Like the headlines and the idea.
So is this long term or a short term gimmick?
April 22nd, 2008 at 23:29
JB; I’m looking at how much Higuain has improved this season. I watch their games and he has become a better player and scorer. And yes you predivted correctly, before RVN’s injury he was a reserve but he is getting more of a chance to show his stuff right now. And regarding Inzaghi, I have no problem with the way Inzaghi plays. It get him goals and his teams win. They also don’t seem to be affected by his upfield antics too much defensively either. But hey, you are entitled to your opinion JB. It matters in the least to me whether you agree with me and I don’t mean that disrespectfully. We all see things differently. That’s why there is such a thing called debate. Your opinions have merit but I just don’t happen to see these players in the same way you do.
April 22nd, 2008 at 23:52
Pato would have been a great signing for Man United. He’s exactly what we need - accomplished link up play, good finishing and surprisingly good in the air. Once he bulks up a bit he’ll be top class I wonder if we had ever tracked him? The work permit rule is a bit of a pain in the ass for us though. It annoys me that teams like AC Milan can sign up South American talent so easily, whilst we have to go through such long and laborious processes, which are never guaranteed to work out. We’re missing out on some great players, no doubt about it. Anderson would not be at our club only for him spending some time at Porto. Had he gone from Gremio direct to a bigger club (e.g. Milan), we probably would never have seen him here.
I’d love to be able to get inside the head of Fergie and Carlos Quieroz to find out what strikers they are weighing up for the summer. I remember this time last year speculating about players we needed. A very knowledgable poster on another board I use posted his fantasy 07/08 team, with the signings of Nani and Anderson, and showed the possiblities it could bring us. Now, it was well known we were linked with Nani, but to predict the signing of Anderson was pretty damn good you have to concede. I remember he bumped his article when we signed them up, and from then on he was known as The Oracle! I’d love to get his predictions this time round, but unfortunately he doesn’t post any more! I’ll stick my neck out and predict Huntelaar, but I’d find it difficult to second guess Fergie after the rabbits he’s pulled out of the hat over the years.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:00
Pipo Inzaghi was born offside! Whilst there’s no doubting his goal-getting abilities, he’s also a very frustrating player who will spend most of the game trying to win soft free kicks by diving and pleading innocence to officials about correct flags against him. Players like that infuriate me. There’s nothing more frustrating than seeing a great move break down because of an over-zealous striker who loves being offside!
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:09
Maybe we should just sign Kenwyne Jones and be done with it……!
Seriously though, Fergie knows exactly what type of striker we need so will be interesting who he goes after, with the amount of names punted around this site surely someone has got it right!
Very very interesting news about Lahm, with him being able to cover left back aswell makes him an ideal ‘2 in 1′ signing.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:10
(Ranter) Thanks man. Definitely long term. Having fun with it and exploring the possibilities. Surprised no one tried it before. As football fans aren’t we eternally talking about who is the best player in the world? Funny thing is that this year CR has locked this title up so early that his name has become synonymous with the title itself. Love your blog too. Looking forward to the match tomorrow. It’s got to be better than today’s match. God I can’t stand Liverpool’s football…But they do tend to win don’t they? And that’s what United will have to do to enshrine their beautiful football…
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:18
Obviously Grognard havent been watching Real Madrid play much because when RVN played he partenered Raul and not the other way around, even when RVN played Raul played more games than RVN did, and Robinho has played almost every game for them this season, and Higuain is a piece of crap player, the other I wont comment on because thyere not United material exept maybe Pato who has potential.
Coming to the point of my post, Tevez is king and Im saying it with like only 5% bias, he and probably only he won us a point against blackburn, so Grognard or anyone out with anything against Tevez should keep his opinions just that opinions, and please dont open these debates over who is better because even if there was I dont want him to ever leave.
(Tevez is the second best forward we have second to only the best player on this planet right now Ronaldo, so really who is better than Tevez that we dont already have??)
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:26
I’ve heard some people on here saying that if we had Torres instead of Tevez we’d already have the league sewn up. I really beg to differ. Torres has only scored 2 league goals away from Anfield. The vast majority of his goals have come in (easy) home games. Considering we’ve won 16 of our 18 home games, it’s safe to say that home goals aren’t a problem for us. Tevez, on the other hand, has saved our ass in tough away games on plenty of occasions - he’s a man for when the chips are down. There’s a very good argument that if we had a striker like Torres, rather than Tevez, we’d not be sitting top of the league. Players like Torres win you games you’d probably win without him anyway. Players like Tevez win you leagues.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:27
Totally disagree with the articles conclusion that we performed better as a team last season. This season we have conceded the least goals in the premiership, scored the most goals and at the moment are unbeaten against the so called top three, only dropping two points to Arsenal at the Emirates in a game we should have won. Allied to these facts that we also have went unbeaten and rarely even troubled in europe and I think it is safe to say that we have improved vastly from last year.
Now Im not saying that we are unbeatable and our biggest tests lie ahead, starting tommorow night but lets not forget were we have came from in only two short years after we finished well of the pace in the league and didnt even get out of our group the Champions league. Back then then I honestly thought that it would take at least 2 to 3 years before we emerged as a major force again but here we are on the verge of our second premiership since then and also contesting the semis of the CL for the second time in a row.
As Grognard pointed out, this team is a work STILL in progress with the major reconstruction having already taken place last summer with only the final pieces of the jigsaw remaining to be added, hopefully in the shape of a striker and right full back.
The tone of this article was a bit too pessimistic for my liking, and fails to recognize the potential of the nucleus of young players at the club whos best years still lie ahead and give me a reason to be optimistic that this is just the begining of a new era that has the potential to be the best since I started supporting United 25 years ago.
I could be wrong about this, but I doubt very much that any of the four teams that remain in the CL have a core of young players that have contributed so much to thier current sucess as our boys, so come on lads, get real, this team has made massive strides in 2 short years and the job is not finished so the best is still to come.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:30
[saudi]
This place is for opinions, rants and debate. So telling someone to keep their opinions to just that or to not open a debate is a waste of space and your time. No point saying that over here. Nor is it your duty to say so. Say your opinions or stay out of it.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:39
Well maybe its because I lied obviously I said those things with more than 5% bias was prabably 95% biased, anyway I love Tevez and he isnt just a good player he has been phenomenal in alot of games and a winner (sometimes a drawer) he gets the important goals and like I said he is only secon to Ronaldo in goalscoring so what do we want more than that in a striker, why would we need a new striker when we have Rooney and Tevez + another 2 strikers already signed with us Manucho and Wellbeck + we are big favorites to win the double this year? I dont see the need and urge others in here feel about this striker issue.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:41
and [red ranter] why would you step on me like that by saying I dont have the right someone else what to say and you tell me “Say your opinions or stay out of it”???
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:53
Because I have the right to do so as a moderator of this site. You have a problem with someone’s opinion, you contact me. You probably haven’t read the Comments policy.
April 23rd, 2008 at 0:55
You can share your opinions, but it’s not your domain to tell someone to not say a certain thing.
EDIT: If you don’t want to have this debate you have the right to ignore it. However, you could change the subject by bringing up something new. Simple as that. Is that too much I am asking you for?
I appreciate your contribution to the site, but refrain from telling people what they should debate and what they should not. Bring up opinions and subjects instead and they will all be more than happy to talk about.
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:00
No, actually I did.
I have been a reader of this blog for a very long time even before starting to write and I have a lot of respect for you guys, and especially you, as you are the moderator, BUT I have seen worse replys on this site than mine, posts with F S B and all other kinds of letter words there are, but you pick on me becuase I was only defending a player that I like, with all due respect to Grognard I remember a lot of posts from him that were far worse than mine when people were dissing Hargreaves a while back and you never butted in, so I am going to take this pesonally from you Red Ranter I ve never been a trouble maker but if you dont like me or have a problem with me just say so.
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:12
Well, anyway, no hard feelings.
I just want to point out that I did say plaese “please dont open these debates over who is better because even if there was I dont want him to ever leave.” and it was only a rant and in no way an order and wasnt meant with any offence.
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:35
Interesting piece, which I agree with more or less.
It’s amazing how many people, including some in the media who should know better, have got caught up in all the recent hype about United. I’ve been a fan of the team for over 40 years and would love nothing better than to see them sitting on top of the world, but if people viewed the team’s current form with any sense of reality they’d have to admit that they’ve been playing very poorly for the last 4 - 6 weeks, even if some of the results have masked the problems.
The commanding presence of the backs has gone, and looks even more fragile with the injury to Vidic. Wes Brown continues to be a liability and throws more and more pressure on the center backs, particuarly Rio, because of his slack defending and poor positional sense.
The midfield has been tinkered with too much and the fluidity and composure which characterized much of the team’s mid season form has been replaced by play which often times seems disjointed, uncoordinated, and mistake-ridden. Even Ronaldo in recent games has looked increasingly tired, harried and mistake-prone. Dare I say that Paul Schole’s return has had much to do with the problem - the triumvirate of Carrick, Hargreaves and Anderson were doing fine before his return and were putting in often imperious displays in the engine room. Not so since Scholes’ return, as painful as it is to say so.
As for the forwards, while I am a great admirer of both Tevez and Rooney, the team really needs a Drogba-style center forward to take full advantage of the midfield’s ability to regularly deliver quality ball into the box. Rooney also is in desperate need of some coaching regarding his finishing, as recently noted by the England manager. He would drive even the most ardent supporter to distraction with his profligacy in front of the goalmouth. It seems at times that he finds the most incredible ways imaginable to miss the goal when the easiest thing would be to bury the ball in the net. He cost United games because of it, and sooner or later it will cost us dearly when it really counts.
I had hoped that the team would fare well in recent weeks in order to build up enough of a points buffer to rest key players for the Euro games. The draws to Borough and Blackburn put paid to that idea, and I think it will cost us. I think the three point buffer is enough to cover us in the EPL, even if we lose to Chelsea (hell if we can’t beat West Ham at home and Wigan away we don’t deserve the championship) but I think the demands of all these back to back games is that we won;t have the legs to get past Barcelona. I hope I’m proved wrong of course, so we’ll just have to wait and see.
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:51
[saudi]
Again you are mistaken.
1. I did not pick on you because you defended a player. That’s a ridiculous thing to do. Here’s what you said:
“… so Grognard or anyone out with anything against Tevez should keep his opinions just that opinions, and please don’t open these debates over who is better because…”
You defend Tevez. Done. Over. End of rant. Now why tell people to not open debates, just because you don’t like others talking against Tevez. I am all for good debating, but don’t tell people not to debate.
2. F, S, B and even C words are allowed as long as they aren’t directed at anyone.
3. I don’t pick on people. End of. I think it’s the first time I ever told you anything, and it was because I said what I thought was right to keep the focus on debates, in accordance with maintaining order here. Not because I harbour some personal grudge — I don’t even know you!
4. I know you have seen worse replies, and with the constant bickering that goes on here from time to time, I try to put a stop to things that could deviate into some farce. So citing worse replies is not a good enough reason. Even more importantly, taking names of people saying they’ve had worse comments (and by cloaking it in a ‘with due respect’ phrase) is a strict no-no.
That said, I do what I think is good for the threads here, and I hope you people trust my judgment. After all, I would want the best for my site.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:56
Grognard
Heres Podolski’s scoring record for Bayern in last 2 seasons he has been with them:
2006-07 22 4 3 2 7 1 32 7
2007-08 20 2 4 0 9 5 33 7
4 goals in 22 games in 2006-07 in the league (total of 7 in 32 games in all competitions)
2 goals in 20 games in 2007-08 in the league (total of 7 in 33 games in all competitions)
Source: Wiki (you can correct me if these figures are wrong)
Yes he is DEFINITELY is a better goal scorer than Tevez!!!
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:05
Great article, it’s nice to try and keep our feet on the ground. We haven’t performed particularly well recently, but if we get the team/formation right at Barca we’ll go through. The League is looking tough, becuase no matter what, Chelsea are great at home, but we can do it if we stay focused. Also, I think if we beat Chelsea, Liverpool will go through. They’ll be really fired up after how fucked they got today, and Chelsea looked limp and crappy, as they often have in Europe this season. We can do the double if we give our all and just put away the chances we’re making.
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:20
Ah shit! Just what we needed! Vidic a serious doubt for the Barca game after being hospitalised with a stomach complaint. Hope its not serious at all…we need that guy badly!!!
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:16
Also read the Brown just did some light training. I hope Vida and Brown would be fine. Pique and Rio does not work at all. DAMNN… we have come far and Vida gets injured towards the end . Hope he can make it fully fit.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:37
Red Ranter; Well done. Notice how I behaved myself. Trust me, I was tempted.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:45
Jos; Have you watched Podolski play for the German National Team? If you have, you wouldn’t be arguing with me over this. He is an outstanding young talent who has suffered through numerous leg injuries the past two years and who also has suffered a blow to his confidence because of the way Bayern have used him. Bayern never needed to go out and get both Klose and Toni. One would have sufficed. Podolski got the bench simply based on injuries early in the year and because of the other’s experience. When he was with useless Cologne three seasons ago he scored 15 goals in the Bundesliga and he had no team around him. His left foot is lethal. Did you see the goal he scored last week against Dortmund? Tevez couldn’t score that in his dream. Anyway, statistics are know way to make a point as they don’t tell the whole story. I think Podolski might move on this summer and if he does, expect a good goal tally next year because I’m pretty sure where he goes, he will be a starter. He is a much more natural goal scorer than Tevez. If you don’t believe me that’s fine Jos, but given time I’m sure I will be proven right. Lets just wait and see.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:56
[Grognard]
Statistics don’t always tell the whole story, especially the quirky ones. But some of them do. Like here, Podolski’s return is surprisingly low for a striker that you rate pretty high. After all, I’m sure you’ll agree, a striker is paid for scoring goals. The bottomline is all that matters if you are a striker — and I believe, even you’ve been of a similar view. 7 in 32 and 7 in 33 for a striker? If that statistic does not matter then no statistic will.
I believe that you judge Podolski by the intangibles and give you the benefit of doubt. But purely based on that stat, I wouldn’t rate him.
As an aside, I felt Ronaldo deserved the young player award over Podolski. I found the reason cited by FIFA (namely sportsmanship) for denying Ronaldo the award disgraceful. I clearly remember Podolski dive against Argentina — and I supported Germany in that game ( they are my second favourite team after Brazil).
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:03
grognard
you are quite contradicting yourself. We were talking about better goal scorer than tevez (not players as I dont think there are many better all-round players than him… he is a second rooney and there arent many better players than rooney either). You threw Podolski’s name and I just checked his stats and they seem pretty pathetic for a striker (total of 6 goals in 42 games in the league). He may be great for the national side but he still has to do it with a top team at club level. Right now he cant even break into Bayern side. Probably he had only 6 chances to score in those 42 games thats why you think so highly of him. [I dont follow Bundesliga so havent seen him play ever. I will just go for stats as far as strikers are concerned as that is what you are looking when you are evaluating them… you think only 20 goals in the league are really good strikers and rest are crap] Podolski might have had a good WC (3 goals) but didnt Milan Baros had a good Euro 2004? (5 goals, golden boot winner). wheres he now?
And you said VDV is not that good! 12 goals in 50 games for national side seem quite good for a midfielder (its the ratio Scholey had for Eng). He was top player at Ajax (they made him captain at 22) and then moved to an unfacied Hamburg and single handedly took them to Europe in two seasons (something better than that only the great Maradona has done ever - taking a small team to league title) This is what Wiki says (it might be wrong as anybody can write anything on wiki but I trust wiki a lot):
“The next season, Van der Vaart was appointed as team captain. However, once again, injury was to shroud his contribution to the side. In his injury forced absence, Hamburg spiraled into the relagation zone, only winning once before the winter break. Van der Vaart’s return to the side had an immediate impact, especially in the UEFA Champions League where he scored three goals in three games, giving Hamburg hopes of making it to the round of 16. However, results elsewhere went against Hamburg and they finished last in their group. Van der Vaart however, received heavy praise for his performances.[5] With attention squarely focused on domestic matters, Van der Vaart led his team out of the relegation zone with a series of victories over Bayern Munich, Werder Bremen and FC Schalke 04; riding Van der Vaart’s wave of form through to the end of the season, Hamburg finished in seventh place, and in so doing achieved the unthinkable by qualifying for Europe for another season.
van der Vaart has been in fine form for Hamburg this season, currently leading them to 2nd place in the German Bundesliga thanks to his ten goals and has also played a significant part in Hamburg’s UEFA Cup success this season, where they reached the Round of 16.”
Doesnt seem bad really for a top player. I touted his name as he is available. He wants move to a big team (undoubtedly to win cups) and is a proven player at both club level and in Europe.
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:13
[jos]
VDV may be a top player, but we don’t need him. We just don’t need a central midfielder. We don’t need to repeat mistakes like Barcelona or Madrid did: they signed players just for the glam quotient when they really didn’t have any need for them. Madrid did it by buying Beckham and shipping Makelele. Barcelona have done it with Henry. Oh and Chelsea did it by buying Ballack when they were doing ok already.
All we need is a decent right back and a striker. Our CM is bursting with talent. Squad is well settled there.
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:47
If rooney was norwegian or polish, instead of being english there would be no debate about who would start between Him and Tevez. Tevez is a flat out better striker than rooney point blank period. If Tevez got as many minutes/starts as rooney he would easily be among the top scorers in the league. and I am not slagging of rooney here, I just cant see what rooney has done this season or in his career that suggest he is better than Tevez.And im not buying the excuse that rooney “does so much more than score goals”. thats bollocks, if that is the case then why not place him as an attacking Mid?
My point of the rant is this, using tevez as a super sub is a waste of money(cause he doesnt come cheap). Play a 4-4-2 with rooney and tevez up top and watch how the goals flow.
also I agree with someone above who said Nani gives ronaldo more space. It is an absolute nightmare having to face nani and ronaldo on the wings, especially when nani is so superb at crossing and ronaldo has shown how good he is in the air.
April 23rd, 2008 at 7:04
Worried about Vida…hope he is okey!
About Podolski, he is a great player. Not a great goalscorer, but a scorer of great goals. He is no Ruud, Law or Yorke, he is more like Hughes and Cantona. He has great skills, can score the goal when you need him, but is not a goal-poacher. And he gets lots of assists too! Seen him play for Bayern and Germany, class player and would fit well in Uniteds style of play, but he is not the kind of player we need.
HA-HA; JOHN ARNE RIISE!
April 23rd, 2008 at 7:47
Johnsom33; Rooney has played 2029 minutes this season, Tevez has played 2497 minutes. One thing I think people don’t give Rooney enough credit for is his ability to get in behind the defence, he does it like a true striker, and he has pace and strength, so you can see why SAF experimented with him as the main striker. The amount of one-on-ones Rooney gets is not luck, Tevez rarely gets a one-one-one, probably due to his lack of speed.
April 23rd, 2008 at 7:54
grognard, “He is an outstanding young talent who has suffered through numerous leg injuries the past two years and who also has suffered a blow to his confidence because of the way Bayern have used him” sounds like a person we already have…
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:03
Who cares about who we should buy for next season. We should be talking about the NOW. And right now we have a huge match on our hands that needs all our attention.
All of you worried about Vida and Wesley, rest assured guys they’re all going to take part tonight.
Oh and by the way, the who’s better fued going on here has taken its toll on all of us. We all know that the most important issue at hand is how can MUFC be the best in the world (p.s. refer back to the title of the topic above).
Frankly, right now, today, is our chance to prove that we are.
So, if we really want to focus on something, we should be anticipating one hell of a contest.
Lets hope that SAF, the genius that he is, has more of his tactical approaches up his sleave tonight. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from supporting, with all my heart (and sometimes hard earned money) the Red Devils, then its this; never underestimate the opponent (no matter how good you are), and always place your trust in the Gaffer, because 9 times out of ten he surprises every one, not only rivals, but us, the fans.
Finally, this humble rant of mine is directed to all of us here, and elsewhere for that matter, that today is the biggest night we will experience since the 1999 UEFA Champions league final. The emotions are so high that some of us cannot contain them anymore. Lets do it for the victims of Munich. They DESERVE it !!!
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:14
Saudi red devil, I agree with you mate regarding the ‘Apache’ - Red Tev!. He is the one likely to get us the goal we need in tight matches. If the ball hadn’t stuck on the line, his shot would have won us the game at B’Burn - so unlucky.
Timbo (post 79), Fred the Red (post 71), Red addict (post 70), and Johnsom33 (post 90), WOOOOO, Go guys - loved these posts, and wholeheartedly agree with them. Couldn’t have expressed your points better myself lol!.
Red Ranter - (post 89), Re. our CM is bursting with talent, squad is well settled there - REALLY???. Can’t wholeheartedly agree with you there!. Carrick is not robust or commanding defensively. Neither are Scholes and Giggs this season. Anderson, apart from notable games away at L’Pool and Arsenal and a couple of games at home, is not yet consistent in same high standard in every game. Park has his odd good games, as does Fletcher, and Hargo is great when fit to play. I think our midfield is the weakest part of our team, and needs more strength. But hey, it’s all about opinions isn’t it?.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:05
craig
agree with you sir regarding midfield. Although lot of talent is there but I just dont see any “scoring threat” from our CMs. Carrick has a grand total of 3 goals for us in 2 seasons (only 1 this year), OH has 2 (both free kicks), Scholes has 1 I guess this year and Anderson is yet to even have 1 straight shot at goal nevermind score a goal itself! Fletch has no goals in the league (correct me if I am wrong). So if a team somehow neutralises the front three it is very unlikely we will score.
That is where I suggested a new ACM to be brought in (as Scholesy is likely to fade and be involved very little next year, and Anderson/Carrick/OH/Fletch are not gonna score many goals (unless Anderson can somehow prove me wrong, I dont have any hopes from others)). Great squads have at least 5-6 good midfielders so there is still berth for one more in this squad.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:57
NAF - A very passionate rant mate, but the topic for debating here is, HOW GOOD DO ALL WE FANS THINK UNITED ARE THIS SEASON!. As you can see, there is much differing of opinion on this. You say your only concern is that United are the best team in the world!. So what do you think the object of all our discussion here is then?. It’s the offering of opinions about what fans think will improve the team, and make us world beaters!. If to you this kind of debating seems negative, that’s up to you mate. I however enjoy the thought and opinions of others regarding team improvement, whether I personally agree with their comments or not.
As for us focusing on tonight’s game, if some of us could have got hold of tickets, we would have been over in Barcelona cheering every move NAF. Joining in the banter or sobriety of other topics of discussion on this blog, does not diminish our fervour for tonights game. If you want to just focus on tonight’s game, I have no problem with that, and there is another thread started where you can do just that!.
By the way, who is the “all of us” you mention that this debate has taken it’s toll on?. Not the almost 100 contributors to this topic debate I’d say. I’m with you on your fervour and rallying call for tonight’s match NAF, and bully for you. Yet I’m also with those who have made known their thoughts on other matters up for discussion too. Fans are concerned about every aspect of the team and its players, that’s what being fanatical means surely?.
Enjoy the game NAF, as I surely will. A bit miffed I couldn’t get a ticket to be there that’s all.
Jos - thanks for your comments mate. It would be good to get more goals from our midfield, yet I am concerned too about our lack of controlling the game forceably from midfield. I do love when Hargo, Carrick and Anderson play together though, it just seems better to me. Again, that’s just personal preference though lol!.
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:11
Ranter, re: “All we need is a decent right back and a striker.” Having been very unhappy with United defending before the arrival of Vidic and Evra, if I were manager I would go and buy another top centreback. I would also buy another keeper - except you can’t rotate them like outfield players. The reason for these acquisitions? Injuries. You simply cannot win trophies without dominance in those central positions. Since United are gushing with talent I would shore up those spots. But yeah, one more striker would not hurt…
April 23rd, 2008 at 15:28
Sounds like you lot are getting worried!
April 23rd, 2008 at 18:37
Jos; Fair enough. I do rate Podolski differently and I do think he is an outstanding talent that has fought injuries and a breakdown in confidence due to Bayern’s lack of using him. Remember that the games you claim he has played have not all been starts. In fact, he has started very few Bundesliga games. That is why his goal scoring totals in the UEFA and German Cups are more impressive. In those competitions he has gotten more action. RedDevil brought up a valid point about Poldi being a scorer of beautiful goals and not a goal scorer. At present that is true but like I said before, he is capable of being a goal scorer as he did this with Cologne to gain notice by Klinsmann in the run up to the World Cup. At this point he is not as good as Tevez, I’ll concede that, but I see his future as very bright indeed. And although he has had his injury problems, none of his injuries are of the fragile chronic type like Saha’s that don’t get better.
Red Ranter; I agree with you about the fact that the Young Player award should have gone to Ronaldo. Podolski was pretty good but he was being mightily criticized in the German media after his first two games where he missed numerous chances to score goals. Everybody shut up afterwards but he still netted only three goals. Hardly something to jump for joy over. Yes he played well but Ronny was outstanding except for a certain incident against England that we will try to avoid right now. I actually think Podolski would be a great signing as he is young with great potential and he wouldn’t immediately be a big threat to Tevez’ starting position. There still room to give both over 20 starts in all competitions and keep them fresh and active. He won’t cost as much as he cost Bayern when they got him. He is also the depth we need without stepping on the Apache’s toes in the process. I’d prefer him to stay with my other favorite team Bayern, but if he was to move, United would be an ideal location for him to develope in to a giant of a player.
As for VDV, I totally agree with you. I don’t question whether he is a good player. He is, but he is not what we need as a priority. Not all teams have central attacking midfielders that score goals. Our team is structured around our wingers cutting in and scoring goals. Most teams don’t have a winger like Ronaldo who can do this and even Nani has shown the ability to do this. Imagine in a couple of years how much better he will be. Our central midfielder today play much more of a holding role deeper behind the play. Like have said many times before whether we are are playing 4-3-3, 4-5-1 or 4-1-3-2, in reality our midfielders play and react to the situations in the game more like the Italian style of 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1. The emphasis is on the build up from the sides and not the middle. Scholes plays a slow tempo ball control game with very few up field runs or passes, Carrick holds up the ball and sends longer passes up field, and Hargo does a combination of the two but adds strong runs upfield and from the side. Anderson runs up field much more but as we know, his finishing skills and desire to shoot right now is not good. Perhaps it will improve with time. But I love our midfield as it is. Yes I would like Gattuso to join us so that we can also add grit and bite to the midfield but that’s not vital. What is vital is that we buy a RB and a striker.