Nov 10
So, Should We Still Have This Berbatov Discussion?
I haven’t been in a habit of putting up images in my posts, lately. Although something — and some common sense — tells me that this site would look a whole lot better with a few pics here and there. So I thought I’d get the Berbatov pic in. And I hope I do manage to get a pic up, however irrelevant it may be, every now and then. However, be warned that you wouldn’t see too much of, what they call, eye-candy; more a space filling device than anything else.
It wasn’t too long ago when most of us were creaming ourselves over the Bulgarian; on how perfect he would be to link up play; or be a target man. Or simply drop back as the need arises. But of late we have seen some aspects of his character that makes it appear that he may actually be a soft bloke deep down. Or rather, a person who is so full of himself.
We’ve heard reports quoting Ramos, when he said that he wouldn’t stand in the way of Berbatov if he wanted to move. Then we’ve heard Berbatov pledging his love for Tottenham. And, of course, we’ve most recently seen reports from none other than the Sun, where his brother was quoted as saying that Berba had ‘outgrown’ Spurs and would love a move to United.
Countless websites, columns and blogs have discussed about this. So I consider this to be my moral right to follow suit and contribute to the noise of opinions that have already clouded internet space — if that was even a decent metaphor. And, of course, the person who considers me to be his favourite Man Utd blogger also wrote a piece. So I am tempted to reciprocate write one myself.
My discussions on Berbatov will draw from two articles from the Guardian written just eight months off each other. I suggest you read both of them before proceeding.
First Article (Amy Lawrence)
Second Article (Jonathan Wilson)
The first article, written way back in March, makes for a good read, which is not much of a surprise coming as it does from Amy Lawrence (despite her Arsenal tilt in general), as it gives us insights into the player — his strengths and skill. But despite being an article full of praise for the Bulgarian, it comes with some warning signs of the player, which I quote here for your convenience:
Klaus Toppmoller, the genial ex-coach of Leverkusen, who had been something of a father figure to Berbatov, said: ‘He can be one of the best strikers around, but everyone should be aware he can be a lazy bastard.’
While these words may have been laughed out seven months ago, they now sound eerily prophetic. A possible cause for his downfall, this season? We may never know.
The second article, by Jonathan Wilson, is more damning. It appears that Berbatov doesn’t only have troubles with Tottenham. He has also become an object of hate in his home country. Some excerpts from the second article look to strengthen such a belief. Like this one for example from his agent, that reeks of a false sense of self importance:
“He is worried about not scoring,” his agent, Emil Dantchev, said. “But he sees the situation clearly and knows that Tottenham are lacking the player who can make that killer pass that leads to a goal.”
And this one:
…but the complaints were given credence by Berbatov’s reaction to Bulgaria’s 2-0 defeat to Holland in a Euro 2008 qualifier in September. In the dressing room after the game, Berbatov, who is captain of his country and their highest-profile player, laid into his team-mates, blaming the goalkeeper, Dimitar Ivankov, for an error that cost a goal, attacking the defence for their supposed sloppiness, and accusing the midfield of making his job impossible by failing to supply him with passes of sufficient quality. That he himself had missed two highly presentable chances was ignored.
While there may be a fair bit of sensationalism attached to this article, in trying to pounce on his rather poor form, so far, there still is a fair bit of truth to lend credence to the fact that from his commitment (or the lack of it) Berbatov is clearly not United material. Sure, part of the reason for his poor form might be attributed to the unsettling effect of being linked to United. True, SAF might have actually done a better job at cajoling the hell out of the player had the striker chosen United over Spurs. But do we really need him now?
Despite the obvious strengths he has in his game; despite his undoubted skill and ‘languid genius’, as some would put it, he would demand a regular starting berth in the side. Or, at least, his price tag would. That would certainly destabilise the team. Even today, in the absence of Rooney, he wouldn’t be welcome in a side where the system takes precedence over the player. Our side is not built around one player. At least not this season, as we showed we were just as capable of scoring with, or without, the likes of Ronaldo.
We would surely do better to look at a decent back up who would be content to come off the bench and fill-in rather than some one who struggles to even do a warm-up, when called upon.
Seriously, Mr. Berbatov, you could really fuck off.
Related items from Red Rants:- Allow Me This Indulgence…
- Manchester United Fixtures for the 07/08 Season
- Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd: One Point Won, But Two Points Lost
- Discussion: What Do We Do With Heinze?
- Mystery Man Advised Not to Leave United | SAF’s Big Interview | Right Backs, Anyone?
Tags: Opinions/Columns
November 10th, 2007 at 10:13
RR - we must firt consider how reliable those sources are?
why would his agent come out and say negative things about him when he (the agent) would be holding out for a move to man utd?
also - these so called arrogance problems. Wasnt cantona of the same mould? look at what he became?
also - i highly doubt he would have this ‘im bigger than my team’ philosophy if he joined us - theres absolutely no chance of that
November 10th, 2007 at 10:55
in my book berbatov would be a sensational bye..but again i dont think that he is much of a team player. If he were put on the bench he’d start wailing like a little baby instead of fighting for his place in the team. I’d rather hope that SAF goes for a bargain bye…maybe spend 8-10 million pounds on a huntelaar instead of spending in the region of 20-25 million pounds on a crying baby….sure he’s a great talent but once again he hasnt got much pace in his game either…and isnt our entire front line and system based on pace, power and fluent movement.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:05
So what Shaheen? We got Cantona for 1m. If we get Berbatov for 3-4m then so be it. Why pay 30m for him?
November 10th, 2007 at 11:08
berbs wouldnt like warming the bench, he thinks he’s better tan that(and he is), RR we need ahmed to decide pictures lol. who else thinks we should launch shock bid for benjani and use him as a super sub
November 10th, 2007 at 11:54
i thank the team need someone that can bring
impact to the clud than spend 8-10m pound on
a player that. i he agree to sign for 8-11m
pound it should be agree
November 10th, 2007 at 13:51
Imagine if saha could stay fit?hes a top 5 striker in league actually.such a shame
November 10th, 2007 at 14:20
agreed, i reckon he could get 30-40 goals a season if he stay fit, do you think we would of bought tevez if it wasnt for mr.glass’ glasseeness?
November 10th, 2007 at 14:31
Im watching the sunderland newcastle game and this guy jones is really good,he just doesnt lose headers and i feel he could be a good buy.but i doubt it could happen though.
November 10th, 2007 at 15:40
[Shaheen]
I don’t know if you’ve read about Cantona’s work ethic. He may be arrogant but he was always among the first to be at training. He was among the last too leave as well. I am not able to find the article but SAF had once said that Cantona used to ask permission to borrow a player or two to practice much after the training sessions had ended and this actually got more United players interested in staying late.
Arrogance was one thing. But it didn’t come out of thin air. He earned it. SAF would have never stood tardiness in training and Cantona was certainly not one of them.
November 10th, 2007 at 16:04
HUNTELAAR. Would be cheaper, and would be younger. And since he’s not an established player in the EPL, he might be willing to sit the bench moreso then Berbs.
November 10th, 2007 at 16:05
jones does look good. . but i cant see keane giving him up this season. . maybe if they go down. .
November 10th, 2007 at 16:52
F**K berbatov, lets get adriano, hes younger than berbatov, great height lef footed great skill and doesnt mind sitting on the bench, will definately regain his form under sir alex fergerson
November 10th, 2007 at 16:58
Grognard I see you’re beloved Bayern Munich getting beaten by Stuttgart, you’re claims of “If Bayern Munich were in the Champions league they would be one of the favourties” and “Demichelis and Lucio are possibly the best centre back partnership in Europe” don’t seem too accurate, not forgetting that Stuttgart, the team that are beating Bayern Munich with apparent ease, were beaten by Rangers, who just a few days ago you said they don’t deserve to be in the champions league, “I say he has no business playing at the Nou Camp until he has a team with the quality to compete and to try an out score it’s opponent. Simple concept really. To play for a draw just so they advance is just delaying the inevitable. Do they honestly have a rats chance in Hell of winning the CL with an attitude like that? So why take part in it” so don’t show bias towards Bayern Munich(when you are” not clouded by bias as most others are in this blog”, as said be you) and then talk badly about other clubs. And by the way, I don’t even like Rangers and i do liek the way Bayern Munich play football, but I just felt it was necessary to show that we are all biased and that you aren’t any better than the rest of us.:)
November 10th, 2007 at 17:13
Crikey Conor, if that doesn’t get him going nothing will
I forsee a rather long response heading your direction.
November 10th, 2007 at 17:33
personally, i feel berbatov is highly overrated.
he had what, 2 or 3 good games for Spurs and since then, been linked to an array of big clubs, including Manchester United.
he is lazy, sloppy, selfish, egoistic, and certainly not worth the reported 25mil price-tag.
I would cry till my eyes lose any form of sensitivity if he comes to United.
November 10th, 2007 at 17:39
Haha! I think we should just stick with our very own Dong!!
November 10th, 2007 at 17:47
Thanks for the support JB. On that note I’ll make my response short. Bayern have hit a bare patch over the past few weeks. Lots of shots on goals with no goals to speak of. It’s nothing more than a slump. And I never said that they would go undefeated. In fact, I predicted they would lose today 1-0. 3-0 does sting but giving up two goals to Bolton at home stings even more. They’ll recover. They are a bit tired and have fought nagging injuries. They are still in the top 5 teams in Europe. What? Barcelona and Real haven’t been embarrassed in La Liga? Of course they have. Look at Milan. It’s a long season and teams have their highs and lows.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:00
yes we all forgot about dong
November 10th, 2007 at 18:01
I’m not too sure if they’re in the top 5 just ye, without ribery they lose a lot of they’re creativity, Klose and Toni are a good partnership and Lucio is a good CB but thats the only players that look like they would get into any of the top 5 teams. Not many teams rely on one creative player, Real Madrid have Robben, Sneijder, Guti; Man U have Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez;Barcelona have Messi, Iniesta, Deco, Xavi; Inter have Ibrahimovic, Stankovic and Cambiasso;Milan have Pirlo, Kakaa dn Seedorf. Thats not what I was disputing anyways, I just wanted to outline times when you’re bias comes out which you seem to deny, and then tell others that they can’t properly make a judgement on things because they are biased.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:06
Dong?the lad isnt fit for the championship
November 10th, 2007 at 18:11
Taehr we haven’t yet given him a chance so lets not jump to conclusions, but if SAF trusts O’Shea to go up front more than he does for Dong to play there then I think its fair to say we won’t be seeing much of him this season.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:19
RED RANTER; Excellent article on Berbatov. Despite my love for so called lazy players like Dimitar (I love that name) and RIQUELME, I have to agree with you 100%. To compare Berbatov to Cantona is insane. Not only was the King a dime store buy in comparison, but he was a great player, motivator and leader. Is Berbatov any of those? A great player is debatable because he cannot overcome the liabilities of his team as well as of his attitude. As a And United player he would soon turn into SULK 2 THE NEXT GENERATION.
Although I for one was in his corner before the season started, enough warning flags have gone up to turn me off of the player. I have no problem with a striker who demands the ball and who is obsessed with scoring goals. That is their job and that is the way they should feel. I do have a problem with sulking, refusing to go in to a game as a substitute and generally looking disinterested, moody and pissed off, even after you have scored a goal. He has sent nothing but bad messages and negative vibes through the club. Do we want such a player on our club? I don’t think so.
Berbatov’s anger, frustration and general unprofessionalism seems far worse than what Riquelme has been accused of at Villarreal. At no time has that great player ever turned on his team and criticized them. He has never refused to go in as a substitute. True he does not practice hard but then I can give you loads of North American sports stars who are not known for their hard work in practice, but who bring it when the game starts. In situations like that, good managers cut a true star some slack. Berbatov however, is truly a cancer. He has a large ego and he would probably be fine if he was treated like van Nistelrooy (not counting his last season) and started 95% of the games. But that’s not going to happen. Who do you sacrifice for Berby’s demand?
What United need is a striker that has had his best days in the past but who can still contribute. Inter have Crespo and Milan have Inzaghi. They come off the bench and contribute. They both would like to start but they know that they are #3 in the pecking order. They have accepted their roles and they contribute positively. Why? Because like Teddy Sheringham, and Henrik Larssen last season, they are over thirty and in the last quarter of their careers. That is what we need as #4 striker. I can see Saha playing the role of Solksjaer because of his chronic knee. He would be an ideal super sub and that role could be ideal in preserving his health.
As for next year, I would look to buying a young 19 or 20 year old striker phenom and slowly bring him into a starter position over 2 to 3 years. At that age they know they will do some sitting on the bench. The old striker I mentioned is only a fix for this season.
Huntelaar is the player I most want but he is mature enough and good enough to want to start right now. This would cause a problem. I like the Jones kid at Sunderland and a host of other youngsters, but that’s a post for another day.
And Adil Alhinai, Adriano is the poster boy and definition for FAT, LAZY, MOODY and WORTHLESS. Give me a break mate. The guy is a festering Jabba the Hut.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:30
Conor; we all have our biased opinions but I do not show my bias despite what you may think. If I claim the Bayern Munich are one of the best sides in Europe, or that Riquelme is the best player in the world, then I believe it. Last season my Bayern outfit were total shit on a stick, and I admit to that.
As for them not having creative players other than Ribery, that is total shite also. Schweinsteiger (a Germany international) is an excellent schemer and passer with a lethal shot. Just ask Ronaldo and Portugal as Im sure they would agree. van Bommel is also a good passer and shooter. Ze Roberto is a little long in age but he is as creative they get and Altintop is also a fine player on his day. The real gem is a year or two away from being regarded as a superstar and top 10 player. That is Toni Kroos. He has already contributed massively in his few opportunities. He is also the reason Bayern are not actively trying to buy a replacement for Michael Ballack. Because Toni Kroos is his replacement. What they are lacking is a strong replacement for Owen Hargreaves. That probably cost them today.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:42
Oh yeah Schweingsteiger, you’re right he is very good, totally forgot about him, and from what I have seen of Toni Kroos, I do agree that he looks like a potentially world class player, and a very good one even at this young age, but Altintop and Ze Roberto just aren’t of the same level, and I may be biased but I don’t think Van Bommel is particularly creative, he’s just a hard worker with a good shot. “but I do not show my bias despite what you may think” but yes you do! Why deny it when its undeniable?! Just because you truly believe that Bayern Munich are a great team doesn’t mean that you are being unbiased! If I said I think Anderson will be better than Fabregas, and I really believe it, Arsenal fans will still look upon my opinion as biased, will they not? Anyways Grognard, prediction for the Blackburn match? You got the prediction right last time so lets hope you’ll become our good luck charm:) Because I’m the least confident of beating Blackburn as I am of against any other team we have played this season, even Arsenal.
November 10th, 2007 at 18:58
Connor, trying to convince him that his arguments show some bias is like pushing water up a hill, you might as well be idle.
November 10th, 2007 at 19:04
TRULY and HONESTLY Conor, I am not showing bias when I make the claims about Bayern. If it was Hamburg or God forbid Bremen that had these players, I would make the same claim. The fact that I love the team does not keep me from being objective and a realist. That’s not to say that I can’t be biased in the right circumstances. Check out my response (at the very bottom) in the previous post to our visitor from Chelski land. Correct me if I’m wrong but I do think I put him in his place in a very pro Man Utd biased manner.
And van Bommel can be a very creative player. The problem is that Hitzfeld has him playing Hargreaves old role so he is farther back than ususal. Originally he was signed to replace Ballack. He’s good, but he’s no Ballack. Ballack is an exceptional player who got a real bum deal at Chelsea even before his injury. He’s ten times the player Frank Lampard is. Too bad Mourinho was too dim to realize it. Also, Ze Roberto and Altintop are very good players too. Have you watched their games. Altintop especially has scored some great goals and created a few also.
November 10th, 2007 at 19:08
I honestly don’t appreciate the wise crack remarks JB. I don’t often agree with your remarks and views but I do respect them. I have never gone out of my way to mock your writing style, or content even if we cannot see eye to eye on an issue. This petty jabbing directed at me is really beneath you and I for one am a bit shocked and surprised to say the least.
November 10th, 2007 at 19:14
Yeah I’ve seen the goals Altintop scores, he doesn’t seem to know how to score a bad goal! I know, but then you should realise that people can be biased yet realistic just like you, and don’t dismiss peoples opinions as biased so readily. And I know he’s been played out of position but even for PSV and in the odd game at Bareclona he was never particularly creative, he could do everything else well, hes got a good shot, good at heading, good at defending and he’s a good leader, but I’m sticking by my opinion that he’s not creative. And JB: Hahahaha true.
November 10th, 2007 at 19:40
You bring up a decent point about being biased yet realistic. I’m not placing ban Bommel on the “A” list of playmakers. I just think he is a decent passer of the ball, but that certainly is not his strong point. Oh, and thanks for encouraging JB’s unfair abuse. Sorry you feel the way you do. I just try to contribute and to get debate going on issues pertaining to United and the game in general.
November 10th, 2007 at 19:44
Abuse? Why would you be sorry? I’ve told you this before you take offense too easily and you get the wrong ideas, as a rule, don’t take offense from any of my ‘abuse’ right? Just for future reference, and secondly, yeah I actually think he’s a good passer, just has poor vision. So what do you think the score will be? Anyone? And we’re all assuming Saha will start tomorrow yeah?
November 10th, 2007 at 20:08
[Grognard]
I have a feeling JB was just trying to make it in good humour. It’s okay to lighten up at times, fella. You JB and others have contributed enough to have known each other’s sensibilities. Although I think a little bit of gentle ribbing is okay. Abuse seems a strong word, though. That would be if someone were to dismiss your ideas as total crap.
I am not taking sides here, so if you take offence to that, then I don’t have much to say really.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:10
Conor I’m not saying that you were the abuser. JB stuck a few jibes in my direction that were uncalled for and abusive. All I’m say is that you with your “JB: Hahahaha true.” quote only stokes his fire and rains more of that stuff down on me. And I don’t think it’s fair.
I have always insisted that only those of you who feel compelled and are interested in my views should even attempt to read my long posts. Truthfully I should be running my own blog because I have a lot to say, I have experience writing article for magazines and because I feel I am intelligent and articulate enough like Red Ranter to do so and JB of all people should know this as well as yourself. Two contributors who have something to say that I take the time to read and that I respect. But when disagreements on content come up all of a sudden I’m negative and my posts are too long. This is very frustrating to me and incredibly disheartening. It’s got nothing to do with what I write but how I write?
When I think of all the garbage posts from idiots and illiterates that we all have to sift through, I would think that my take and contribution on things would be welcome and encouraged. Instead I get BS thrown back at me. Yes maybe I take offense too easily but consider this, You, JB, and whoever are at a pub with me talking like this. We would know and understand each other with much more ease. One can read another’s intent with more ease by seeing him face to face. The internet does not offer us that unless we use video feeds. Happy faces icons may help, but not really.
I am truly saddened and disenchanted by many of the responses I receive on this site (and only this site), yet I continue because I feel the need and the urge to contribute. I love football and Manchester United.
As for the score of tomorrow’s game I think it will be 0-0 or 1-1. Now I cannot wait until I hear the abuse for that one. Yes I think we are in deep trouble without Rooney and our smooth offensive play will be halted until he returns. Oh Jee! Am I being negative?
November 10th, 2007 at 20:27
Abuse, lack of appreciation, surprise and shock out of a line or two, well then Grognard I am sorry, I am obviously far more aggressive, cutting and rude than I previously thought. I will remember in future that ribbing is strictly off limits with regards to yourself.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:33
Red Ranter; You too seem to not get it. It’s not about what I write it’s mostly the nagging I get because of how much I write. I won’t even bother to guess how many of these ADD case even read article in newspapers and magazines yet alone read books. To attack the fact I write long posts is incredibly insulting. I have listened to some and even attemted to break them up in to more acceptable paragraphs for the eyes, but still, some people prefer a sentence. Where the Hell is the passion in that?
An opinion is worthless unless one can take time to defend their case and then offer alternative ideas and opinions. To do so in only very few words speaks volumes for how little they know and how little they care. I hate reading posts like “I thin we played like shite.” Boy is that ever informative and well thought out. But we get it all the time. Rarely do no minds ever get the less than positive feedback that I receive. Abuse is not a strong word Red Ranter if that is how I honestly feel. If someone was to run over your foot with a car would you not consider that painful? I’m sure you would but what if I was insensitive enough to say it is nothing, stop overreacting? On this site I often feel my toes getting crunched under the weight of many negative comments.
Although you have been supportive of me in the past I do realize that you generally disagree with my comments. But I do get the sense that you at least fair and respect them. But how do you feel about my length at times? Why does a post have to be so short? Despite what many may think, I’m not writing a novel. Most times I am writing an article similar to you or a newspaper. Is that wrong? If you feel this way I will cease contributing to this blog. No hard feelings will follow. I’ll just go where I don’t receive ABUSE and smart ass remarks about my writing and my viewpoints. Man do I feel pissed off. I need to cool off.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:34
Do you want an apology? Its clear to me that JB was having a bit of banter and I find him quite funny, hence I laughed at his joke, the people who say you’re posts are too long or negative have a right to their opinion, ignore them if you feel the need to, but how will it really affect you anyway? I’d just laugh at the stupidity of someone trying to slag someone else off on a blog, because its not as if anything will ever come of it.But it’s not always a one way thing Grognard and although I care very little about what gets said to others on the blog that doesn’t relate to football, you have been known to call people names which are ill-advised.I’m happy to have a conversation about football with you but too often does something else come up, abuse over the internet is stupid and in my opinion doen’t exist on this blog. I think you overreacted to nothing. But who really cares?
I have to say although I’m not sure if we’ll be able to take apart Blackburn as we have been doing to others in the past few games, I still think we have the quality to beat them. Both of our strikers have the ability to score, so does Ronaldo and Giggs has been getting back to some sort of form, so I think we can get 2 goals tomorrow, and with the way our defense has been recently, I can see them scoring, lets just hope Tevez doesn’t have to play upfront on his own, because if he does I don’t think we’ll score more than one. And did anyone see the Derby score? 5-0? At home! Against West Ham?! I’m looking forward to our match against them.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:35
Jesus H Christ JB; even your apologies have the distinctive ring of sarcasm. And that was intended to make me feel better was it? If it was then maybe you should consider the arrogance in which it was delivered.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:42
here here lol, its like a debate. top 5 on current form:
united(no bias here lol)
barca
madrid
ac milan
Dag ‘n’ Red
November 10th, 2007 at 20:45
No, while the first couple of remarks were meant to be light hearted, it seems that the last comment came across exactly as intended.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:46
“An opinion is worthless unless one can take time to defend their case and then offer alternative ideas and opinions” Im sorry but thats just not true and many great quotes speak volumes, am I right or am I right? We all have different views of passion so the few words that people say can mean as much to them as you’re long posts do And I’m fairly sure that if we put together all of you’re comments then we could quite easily make a novel, it could be called “The admission of Grognard: Ranting is my true passion in life”
By the way the fact that you took so much offence from JB’s 3 lined comment proves that a few words can speak volumes.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:48
Dan: That list is completely wrong, Dag ‘n’ Red should be second
And where the hell is Derby!?
November 10th, 2007 at 20:52
On current form? Madrid and Real hardly fit that bill having played terribly in the pst month. I think you ar picking based on reputation.
My Top 5 WOULD BE
UNITED
INTER
FIORENTINA
BARCELONA
ARSENAL
honorable mention to Ajax and Lyon.
I was tempted to add Bayern but their recent form has made them drop out of my top 10 for the time being. Mian isn’t in my top 30 right now. Real may be on top of La Liga but their form of late has been very poor.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:57
grognard, i read your posts and sometimes i dont, you right to give reason to your opinions, but tbh, a comment is a paragraph at most, sometime you do tend to insult others, as they insult you but c’mon, this site isnt a blog entry, its just somewere utd fans can speak, its not against the rules to make blog/article/extended comments as there is no limit in words(not that i know of)but most people will not take seriously because they wont read your comments.
November 10th, 2007 at 20:57
Conor; Cutting remarks only take a few words as do compliments. Well thought out opinions and arguments require more. And yes all my posts would make a novel but that argument seems pointless to me. Short and sweet just doesn’t cut it for me. Sorry.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:00
Grognard lighten up! We support a great team, we play great football, and we’re going to win the treble this season:D!
November 10th, 2007 at 21:00
united
DAG n RED
barca
madrid
DERBY COUNTY
November 10th, 2007 at 21:01
DAN; I beg to differ. I have disagreed with many and attacked their argument with controlled restraint (when my heart feels like referring to them as idiots) but never with an insult. If I have ever insulted anyone it was to defend myself against their insults.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:05
Conor all I want is to write about football, my beloved United and have positive debate, feedback and even disagreements on the topics. What I don’t want is sarcastic, arrogant and cruel remarks thrown back at me for either my opinions or the length of my fucking posts. Is that too much to ask for?
November 10th, 2007 at 21:09
Yes, yes it is, sarcasm is a form of humour, and you mispercept arrogance and cruelty with harmless jokes.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:14
Conor; How can I tell? Can I see the man’s face or read his body language or tone of his voice. On the Internet we must have more sensitivity in how we may say things as to not offend people. I am guilty in this as well. It’s a difficulty we all face but we must at least try take those conditions in to consideration. And sarcasm is never misinterpreted and appreciated in the middle of a hollow apology.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:27
Is this a footy blog or the Operah show? Why so sensitive?
November 10th, 2007 at 21:30
The hollow apology was down to the fact that JB didn’t feel as if he did anything wrong. And if you can’t tell then why would you automatically assume he was directing ‘abuse’ at you? Don’t assume the worst Grognard, which is what you did, as more often than not people will just be joking.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:41
[Grognard]
There are people for whom English may not be their first language. They may not be as good in their writing as you or some others may be on this site. So since we are not aware of where many of those short comments come from (I do, of course, know because my site does report me the IP addresses for the sake of anti spam) we don’t have the right to criticise short commenters. They are as important as the long ones.
Not everyone can organise their thoughts into writing.
If you look back at the comments, I think it started when Conor questioned Bayern Munich which made me think that he may be trying to wind you up. JB of course said it out loud, passionate as you are about your fav German club. The point is JB has contributed a lot to constructive debates on this site so an occasional bit of humour is welcome. (It would be same if it were you.) I would clearly object if someone, who hasn’t contributed much of note in here, just said something like that out of the blue. These things are subjective and will go on like this.
How does one usually spot sarcasm over the internet? Use of smilies. Simple, but very effective nonetheless.
Although the moral is that Everyone MUST lay off Grognard as regards humour. And I will try to ensure that so that we share only opinions here with you. So is that okay with you?
November 10th, 2007 at 21:42
[Just1n]
I am afraid it is so for now. Hopefully regular service will resume. Soon.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:55
RR You are a over protective host. Respect!
Lets not sign Berbatov unless we can get him on loan until the end of the season with a 1st option to buy. I would say the same for any player that will cost a fortune as I feel with the money we spent in the transfer window, SAF should have an adequate squad to carry him through till the end of the season. If we can pick up a bargain for 2-3 mill then hell go for it.
November 10th, 2007 at 21:57
Aww man, good one Grognard, we’re in big trouble now.;)
November 10th, 2007 at 22:13
Just1n: This definitely isn’t the Operah show it’s more like Jerry Springer
Call in the bouncers Redranter 
November 10th, 2007 at 22:22
Can’t afford one. Let it be freestyle for now.
Lay off Grognard though.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:23
Grognard and everyone else
This may help and it may not but maybe you could use the forum when you start to go off topic because it is quite annoying to read 50 or so comments about pure crap when we should be discussing the article
November 10th, 2007 at 22:23
JB: Hahahaha You got to love old Jerry. So who is the first one on the strippers pole?
November 10th, 2007 at 22:26
Liam: Thats what I thought too.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:31
I may sound like it but I hate being thought of as some senile old ogre who is on the rampage and is defending himself constantly. None of you really know me and if you did, you would be surprised to see the opposite of what you think is true. I know it was said with a smiley face and all but the thought of being compared to a guest on Jerry Springer stings. The point is as much as I rant about these feelings I have, nobody gets it and nobody really gives a shit. So I’ll leave it that. And kindly refrain from the quick “what a relief” comeback you were thinking JB. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to my session with Dr. Phil. (You Oprah fans will know who I’m referring to)
November 10th, 2007 at 22:34
Okay lads, back to topic
November 10th, 2007 at 22:35
Grognard: Dr Phil is a marriage councellor, isnt he?
JB: I love the spoon you bring onto the blog. It really stirs it up. lol.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:38
Like I said before…Berbatov is not worth getting for the money we will have to pay. A loan deal is the only option I can think of. I get irritated when we splash the cash like Russians. Our squad is huge and we must cope. Enough excuses.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:45
Just1n; No, Dr Phil is a Guidance Councilor for all kinds of personal problems or disorders. Marriage is just one of his many areas of expertise. Still, I think he is a wanker.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:45
Apologies Liam if I contributed to topic driftage, I haven’t even commented on the Berbatov situation. Quite frankly I think he has played his way out of a move. You can always tell more about the character of a man when the chips are down and I’m afraid Berbatov has failed that test in my eyes. I would actually be interested in what market value he would currently command as his stock has fallen so sharply since the start of the season. Certainly I would be reluctant to pay much more than what Spurs got him for now.
Second point I had intended to raise before my ‘remark’ caused such a furore was about Kenwyne Jones. I have heard his name bandied about by a few people in the last week or so and I was very impressed by him in the Tyneside derby today (he had for me, similarities to a rawer, less polished version of Saha). That being said a move during the winter window would be too hasty for my liking as he hasn’t played enough games to determine whether he is a genuinely good player or someone who has hot a purple patch. Interestingly Liverpool have been linked with a £12m bid.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/11/06/ufnjones106.xml
Just1n: By the looks of it, it was a bloody electric whisk I’ve brought to the blog not just a spoon
And Dr Phil is a ‘celebrity psychologist’.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:54
JB; On Berbatov we are in agreement. His attitude has been terrible and he has shown himself to be a poor professional. When van Nistelrooy began to sulk about his exclusion from the starting lineup in the League Cup final in 2005, Fergie dealt with him accordingly. I would be shocked if United made a move for him unless like JustIn says, it is a loan until the rest of the season. This would let Fergie see just what kind of player and man he has.
Regarding Kenwyn Jones, He may not be Saha but I think he may be worth the risk. If we wait until the season is over we may see if he is worth it or not, but United also stand a greater chance of losing him to others. Unless of course Keano wants to offer Fergie first dibs for old times sake. I rather doubt that would happen.
November 10th, 2007 at 22:55
Dan you get Barca off that list (or demote them a place) as they have lost 2-0 to Getafe tonight.
Finally a bit of humour that I hope causes no offense, Paul Merson during Soccer Saturday today (check the 11th post).
http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=428613&start=0&
November 10th, 2007 at 23:02
I’m surprised that didn’t hurt. It may have been part of a denture because I know I’d be screaming in pain if my tooth wanted to come out. Pretty embarrassing too.
November 10th, 2007 at 23:07
I believe it was a false tooth.
November 10th, 2007 at 23:13
That was hilarious. Im sure he is not used to wearing the thing, hence it falls out on national tv. Priceless. Should be in the new mastercard ad.
November 10th, 2007 at 23:15
I thought this was about Berbatov. Anyway, we don’t need him. Rooney will be back sooner than we think and then nothing and noone will be able to stop him leading us to Moscow.
November 10th, 2007 at 23:29
I think people are making a bigger deal out of berbatov’s ‘attitude problems’, I don’t think he’d be detrimental to our team spirit(which by the way does it not really annoy everyone when the Arsenal players come out with “Oh we have such a great team spirit” and ” oh we’re all just like a big family” crap and then they go into a big huddle as a sign of this? It’s just plain stupid and many other teams like Blackburn and us have just as good team spirit”),as although he’s lazy, he can be brilliant at the same time, as he was last season, the problem I’ve always had with him is that he goes missing in the big matches, last season he didn’t score against any of the big four, and he scored against teams in the bottom half in 10 of the 11 matches he scored in(the other being against Everton), plus he’s not a natural finisher. He is a creative forward with great first touch and vision, but he’s not fast or a good dribbler. Before, I thought that as he was slow and isn’t a good dribbler he would never make it at United, because at the time I thought we need a direct replacement for Saha, but seeing the way Tevez runs about and is constantly looking for the one-two Berbatov could be a great foil for Tevez to play off, with Berbatov staying up top and Tevez running around him. The only real reason I don’t want him is his price, I’d still say that even with the problems he’s had this season he would still cost around 15 million. Jones looks good and the only difference that I’ve seen between him and Saha is that Saha gets involved in the play better, I mean by keeping the ball moving which I think he’s great at because the way he turns defenders is brilliant, which also could be a problem with Berbatov as he slows down the play, but both Jones and Berbatov seem like they could play in our team with ease.
November 10th, 2007 at 23:44
DONT SUPPOSE NE1 KNOWS ANYTHIN ABOUT OUR NEW BOY JOHN COFIE??
reckon wee’l win pretty easy tomo, BBurn will put up a fight but cant see them stoppin us.
November 11th, 2007 at 0:20
Cofie is only 14 and recently graduated from diapers and the nursing bottle. You won’t be seeing him play anywhere near Old Trafford for 4 to 5 years I think.
November 11th, 2007 at 0:35
Conor; I am reading some disturbing articles the Bayern Munich executives like Beckenbauer and Rummenigge are apparently upset with manager Ottmar Hitzfeld’s rotation policy and in particular the lineup he put out against Bolton. Their current run of poor form may lead to a managerial change as Hitzfeld’s contract does run out at the end of this season.
The reason I bring this up to you and United fans is the fact that Franz Beckenbauer is actually good friends with someone we all recognize well, by the name of Jose Mourinho.
Mourinho did say in interviews after leaving Chelsea that he would not be adverse to managing in the Bundesliga and other than Italian, German was a language he wanted to learn.
I may be blowing steam here and this slight bump in the road for Bayern will end, but not only were the Bayern executives upset at squad selection but also in the team play starting to resemble last season’s overall poor performance. Bayern is a massive club with very deep pockets and great pride and heritage. I could see them boldly going after the Special One. Just an interesting angle to ponder in the weeks ahead.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:11
[Grognard]
That would be a conflict of interests, wouldn’t it? On one hand you have Bayern. And on the other you have the ’shit on a stick’ brand that Mourinho would bring to the club. I honestly thought Valencia would take Jose. But given the political turmoil there, Mourinho would have been sane enough to avoid it.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:09
I agree Red Ranter but Bayern has a history of hiring managers that do not follow the tactical philosophy of offensive minded individuals like Beckenbauer, Hoeness and Rummenigge. Trappatoni and Magath are only two such examples. Mourinho is very high profile and probably an interested if not willing candidate. I think they would look at him.
As for Valencia, I believe that they are a tier two European power like Porto, Bremen, Roma, PSV, Ajax etc. Very good side but they are not Inter, Milan, Juventus, Bayern, United, Chelski, Arsenal, Barcelona and Real. I intentionally left out Liverpool on principal. I honestly cannot see Mourinho lowering himself and going to a team equal in stature to Porto. He wants a team with real pedigree and above all MONEY. He can’t function with out a large transfer kitty. The real question is could he function under the watchful eye of Uli Hoeness who is more of a watchdog than Abramovich, and much more football astute? Lets just say I put this theory out there first and we will we see in a few months if I’m full of shite or not. Hey! And I’m not full of shite already
PS: And to all of you out there, I will try very hard not to be so over sensitive in the future. I apologize for my tangent. It really got us off the theme of football. A good couple of hours of Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare on my XBOX 360 helped rid me of all my angst and hostility. Actually, talking about Berbatov was boring me anyway. The guy is a lazy, moody wanker.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:32
WHAT A JOKE!
JUST ANNOUNCED
European Footballer of the Year Award. The FIFA Pro World XI is as follows:
Giaunluigi Buffon (Juventus)
Alessandro Nesta (AC Milan)
Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid CF)
John Terry (Chelsea FC)
Carles Puyol (FC Barcelona)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United FC)
Kaká (AC Milan)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool FC)
Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona)
Didier Drogba (Chelsea FC)
Ronaldinho (FC Barcelona)
For fun and the sake of argument here is my eleven as follows;
CECH
NESTA
CANNVARO (for his World Cup, not his play at Madrid)
CARVALHO
LAHM
RONALDO
KAKA
RIQUELME
MESSI
TOTTI
DROGBA
Honorable mentions to ESSIEN, FERDINAND, VIDIC, van NISTELROOY, MARIO GOMEZ and WAYNE ROONEY
November 11th, 2007 at 6:26
Yep. A load of bollocks really. Btw, a request; It would be great if you turn off the caps lock key. The capitals feel grating to the eye, and at times it gives the impression that someone is shouting at you.
Ronaldinho, Terry and Puyol’s inclusions especially are baffling to say the least.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:16
fine jb, i am replacing barca with qpr my hometown heroes(no bias there either)
berbs would be a waste of hard earned(lol) money, we will have to pay 30 odd million for him and he’ll be on the bench most of the time, i was thinking we could either do two things:
a rumour going around is that scouserville want camron jones, and give away peter crouch in an exchange deal, then we offer them money that they simply cant refuse, and we take peter crouch, and in an exchange deal, they can have saha and evans OR we just buy jones.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:24
who the fuck is camron jones?
Unless you mean Kenwyne.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:52
hey RR
are you still doing stats or are you finding real life commitments make it a real hassle?
November 11th, 2007 at 12:49
You know grognard I was thinking the same thing, there’s every chance that Jose Mourinho could go there as I remember him saying he wanted to learn German. I always thought that Ottmar Hitzfield was just a temporary manager until a big manager became available, but then they give him lots of money to throw around and now I’m not too sure they’ll chuck him out so quickly, and do you really think they’ll give Mourinho the money? Because after spending so much recently and the fact that they’re not a big spending club, I wouldn’t have thought so.Dan why would we get Peter Crouch exactly? No well actually fair enough he’s a good goalscorer and not too bad all round player but how much do you think we’d have to pay for him? Because I don’t think he’d want Saha, since he knows he’s injury prone, and as far as I know, he’s not Spanish
And about Valencia, at one time they looked like moving intothe top tier of top teams, when Benitez managed them, but after he left they completely lost it and without David Villa they would be a mid table team.
November 11th, 2007 at 18:13
There’s a really huge difference between Cantona and Berba! Thought both may be “trouble makers”, if i’m not wrong, Fergie described Cantona as the one who kicked the drinking culture in United and inspired the other players, while Berbatov is being described as a “lazy bastard”
November 12th, 2007 at 16:38
[RedRanter]
Regarding the LONG posts:
Perhaps you can consider changing the theme colours?
Maybe change the comments section to normal ‘black-on-white’, or something a bit more nuetral?
‘Black-on-grey’ has a tendency to seem a bit dull and therefore makes the long paragraphs seem more longer than what they are. Maybe this will help with making long posts seem not so long?
Not trying to criticise, just trying to help. If you don’t think it will be of benefit, then discard the idea.
November 12th, 2007 at 18:49
Hey guys (Grognard and Conor), why is no one including Lahm in their list of world class players at Bayern? He can get into any damn team in the world!!
November 12th, 2007 at 20:07
redranter mind your language!!! loser you were telling everyone else to talk properly before so do it yourself hipocrite
November 12th, 2007 at 21:46
I never said anything about swearing. I said stuff about attacking people. If you’ve read this blog at all, you would have noticed swear words in the articles even in the past. So if you do have anything productive to say do so.
Use of foul language to some extent is allowed here. Attacking people is not. Hope you do get the difference before labelling someone a hypocrite.
November 12th, 2007 at 22:39
True Shreyas he could get into any team in the world probably, but that’s because most teams lack a truly great fullback, I’m not sure I would call him world class yet, he pro