Nov 10
So, Should We Still Have This Berbatov Discussion?
I haven’t been in a habit of putting up images in my posts, lately. Although something — and some common sense — tells me that this site would look a whole lot better with a few pics here and there. So I thought I’d get the Berbatov pic in. And I hope I do manage to get a pic up, however irrelevant it may be, every now and then. However, be warned that you wouldn’t see too much of, what they call, eye-candy; more a space filling device than anything else.
It wasn’t too long ago when most of us were creaming ourselves over the Bulgarian; on how perfect he would be to link up play; or be a target man. Or simply drop back as the need arises. But of late we have seen some aspects of his character that makes it appear that he may actually be a soft bloke deep down. Or rather, a person who is so full of himself.
We’ve heard reports quoting Ramos, when he said that he wouldn’t stand in the way of Berbatov if he wanted to move. Then we’ve heard Berbatov pledging his love for Tottenham. And, of course, we’ve most recently seen reports from none other than the Sun, where his brother was quoted as saying that Berba had ‘outgrown’ Spurs and would love a move to United.
Countless websites, columns and blogs have discussed about this. So I consider this to be my moral right to follow suit and contribute to the noise of opinions that have already clouded internet space — if that was even a decent metaphor. And, of course, the person who considers me to be his favourite Man Utd blogger also wrote a piece. So I am tempted to reciprocate write one myself.
My discussions on Berbatov will draw from two articles from the Guardian written just eight months off each other. I suggest you read both of them before proceeding.
First Article (Amy Lawrence)
Second Article (Jonathan Wilson)
The first article, written way back in March, makes for a good read, which is not much of a surprise coming as it does from Amy Lawrence (despite her Arsenal tilt in general), as it gives us insights into the player — his strengths and skill. But despite being an article full of praise for the Bulgarian, it comes with some warning signs of the player, which I quote here for your convenience:
Klaus Toppmoller, the genial ex-coach of Leverkusen, who had been something of a father figure to Berbatov, said: ‘He can be one of the best strikers around, but everyone should be aware he can be a lazy bastard.’
While these words may have been laughed out seven months ago, they now sound eerily prophetic. A possible cause for his downfall, this season? We may never know.
The second article, by Jonathan Wilson, is more damning. It appears that Berbatov doesn’t only have troubles with Tottenham. He has also become an object of hate in his home country. Some excerpts from the second article look to strengthen such a belief. Like this one for example from his agent, that reeks of a false sense of self importance:
“He is worried about not scoring,” his agent, Emil Dantchev, said. “But he sees the situation clearly and knows that Tottenham are lacking the player who can make that killer pass that leads to a goal.”
And this one:
…but the complaints were given credence by Berbatov’s reaction to Bulgaria’s 2-0 defeat to Holland in a Euro 2008 qualifier in September. In the dressing room after the game, Berbatov, who is captain of his country and their highest-profile player, laid into his team-mates, blaming the goalkeeper, Dimitar Ivankov, for an error that cost a goal, attacking the defence for their supposed sloppiness, and accusing the midfield of making his job impossible by failing to supply him with passes of sufficient quality. That he himself had missed two highly presentable chances was ignored.
While there may be a fair bit of sensationalism attached to this article, in trying to pounce on his rather poor form, so far, there still is a fair bit of truth to lend credence to the fact that from his commitment (or the lack of it) Berbatov is clearly not United material. Sure, part of the reason for his poor form might be attributed to the unsettling effect of being linked to United. True, SAF might have actually done a better job at cajoling the hell out of the player had the striker chosen United over Spurs. But do we really need him now?
Despite the obvious strengths he has in his game; despite his undoubted skill and ‘languid genius’, as some would put it, he would demand a regular starting berth in the side. Or, at least, his price tag would. That would certainly destabilise the team. Even today, in the absence of Rooney, he wouldn’t be welcome in a side where the system takes precedence over the player. Our side is not built around one player. At least not this season, as we showed we were just as capable of scoring with, or without, the likes of Ronaldo.
We would surely do better to look at a decent back up who would be content to come off the bench and fill-in rather than some one who struggles to even do a warm-up, when called upon.
Seriously, Mr. Berbatov, you could really fuck off.
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The_Philosopher (487)
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The hollow apology was down to the fact that JB didn’t feel as if he did anything wrong. And if you can’t tell then why would you automatically assume he was directing ‘abuse’ at you? Don’t assume the worst Grognard, which is what you did, as more often than not people will just be joking.
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[Grognard]
There are people for whom English may not be their first language. They may not be as good in their writing as you or some others may be on this site. So since we are not aware of where many of those short comments come from (I do, of course, know because my site does report me the IP addresses for the sake of anti spam) we don’t have the right to criticise short commenters. They are as important as the long ones.
Not everyone can organise their thoughts into writing.
If you look back at the comments, I think it started when Conor questioned Bayern Munich which made me think that he may be trying to wind you up. JB of course said it out loud, passionate as you are about your fav German club. The point is JB has contributed a lot to constructive debates on this site so an occasional bit of humour is welcome. (It would be same if it were you.) I would clearly object if someone, who hasn’t contributed much of note in here, just said something like that out of the blue. These things are subjective and will go on like this.
How does one usually spot sarcasm over the internet? Use of smilies. Simple, but very effective nonetheless.
Although the moral is that Everyone MUST lay off Grognard as regards humour. And I will try to ensure that so that we share only opinions here with you. So is that okay with you?
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[Just1n]
I am afraid it is so for now. Hopefully regular service will resume. Soon.
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RR You are a over protective host. Respect!
Lets not sign Berbatov unless we can get him on loan until the end of the season with a 1st option to buy. I would say the same for any player that will cost a fortune as I feel with the money we spent in the transfer window, SAF should have an adequate squad to carry him through till the end of the season. If we can pick up a bargain for 2-3 mill then hell go for it.
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Aww man, good one Grognard, we’re in big trouble now.;)
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Just1n: This definitely isn’t the Operah show it’s more like Jerry Springer
Call in the bouncers Redranter 
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Can’t afford one. Let it be freestyle for now.
Lay off Grognard though.
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Grognard and everyone else
This may help and it may not but maybe you could use the forum when you start to go off topic because it is quite annoying to read 50 or so comments about pure crap when we should be discussing the article
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JB: Hahahaha You got to love old Jerry. So who is the first one on the strippers pole?
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Liam: Thats what I thought too.
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I may sound like it but I hate being thought of as some senile old ogre who is on the rampage and is defending himself constantly. None of you really know me and if you did, you would be surprised to see the opposite of what you think is true. I know it was said with a smiley face and all but the thought of being compared to a guest on Jerry Springer stings. The point is as much as I rant about these feelings I have, nobody gets it and nobody really gives a shit. So I’ll leave it that. And kindly refrain from the quick “what a relief” comeback you were thinking JB. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to my session with Dr. Phil. (You Oprah fans will know who I’m referring to)
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Okay lads, back to topic
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Grognard: Dr Phil is a marriage councellor, isnt he?
JB: I love the spoon you bring onto the blog. It really stirs it up. lol.
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Like I said before…Berbatov is not worth getting for the money we will have to pay. A loan deal is the only option I can think of. I get irritated when we splash the cash like Russians. Our squad is huge and we must cope. Enough excuses.
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Just1n; No, Dr Phil is a Guidance Councilor for all kinds of personal problems or disorders. Marriage is just one of his many areas of expertise. Still, I think he is a wanker.
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Apologies Liam if I contributed to topic driftage, I haven’t even commented on the Berbatov situation. Quite frankly I think he has played his way out of a move. You can always tell more about the character of a man when the chips are down and I’m afraid Berbatov has failed that test in my eyes. I would actually be interested in what market value he would currently command as his stock has fallen so sharply since the start of the season. Certainly I would be reluctant to pay much more than what Spurs got him for now.
Second point I had intended to raise before my ‘remark’ caused such a furore was about Kenwyne Jones. I have heard his name bandied about by a few people in the last week or so and I was very impressed by him in the Tyneside derby today (he had for me, similarities to a rawer, less polished version of Saha). That being said a move during the winter window would be too hasty for my liking as he hasn’t played enough games to determine whether he is a genuinely good player or someone who has hot a purple patch. Interestingly Liverpool have been linked with a £12m bid.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/11/06/ufnjones106.xml
Just1n: By the looks of it, it was a bloody electric whisk I’ve brought to the blog not just a spoon
And Dr Phil is a ‘celebrity psychologist’.
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JB; On Berbatov we are in agreement. His attitude has been terrible and he has shown himself to be a poor professional. When van Nistelrooy began to sulk about his exclusion from the starting lineup in the League Cup final in 2005, Fergie dealt with him accordingly. I would be shocked if United made a move for him unless like JustIn says, it is a loan until the rest of the season. This would let Fergie see just what kind of player and man he has.
Regarding Kenwyn Jones, He may not be Saha but I think he may be worth the risk. If we wait until the season is over we may see if he is worth it or not, but United also stand a greater chance of losing him to others. Unless of course Keano wants to offer Fergie first dibs for old times sake. I rather doubt that would happen.
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Dan you get Barca off that list (or demote them a place) as they have lost 2-0 to Getafe tonight.
Finally a bit of humour that I hope causes no offense, Paul Merson during Soccer Saturday today (check the 11th post).
http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=428613&start=0&
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I’m surprised that didn’t hurt. It may have been part of a denture because I know I’d be screaming in pain if my tooth wanted to come out. Pretty embarrassing too.
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I believe it was a false tooth.
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That was hilarious. Im sure he is not used to wearing the thing, hence it falls out on national tv. Priceless. Should be in the new mastercard ad.
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I thought this was about Berbatov. Anyway, we don’t need him. Rooney will be back sooner than we think and then nothing and noone will be able to stop him leading us to Moscow.
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I think people are making a bigger deal out of berbatov’s ‘attitude problems’, I don’t think he’d be detrimental to our team spirit(which by the way does it not really annoy everyone when the Arsenal players come out with “Oh we have such a great team spirit” and ” oh we’re all just like a big family” crap and then they go into a big huddle as a sign of this? It’s just plain stupid and many other teams like Blackburn and us have just as good team spirit”),as although he’s lazy, he can be brilliant at the same time, as he was last season, the problem I’ve always had with him is that he goes missing in the big matches, last season he didn’t score against any of the big four, and he scored against teams in the bottom half in 10 of the 11 matches he scored in(the other being against Everton), plus he’s not a natural finisher. He is a creative forward with great first touch and vision, but he’s not fast or a good dribbler. Before, I thought that as he was slow and isn’t a good dribbler he would never make it at United, because at the time I thought we need a direct replacement for Saha, but seeing the way Tevez runs about and is constantly looking for the one-two Berbatov could be a great foil for Tevez to play off, with Berbatov staying up top and Tevez running around him. The only real reason I don’t want him is his price, I’d still say that even with the problems he’s had this season he would still cost around 15 million. Jones looks good and the only difference that I’ve seen between him and Saha is that Saha gets involved in the play better, I mean by keeping the ball moving which I think he’s great at because the way he turns defenders is brilliant, which also could be a problem with Berbatov as he slows down the play, but both Jones and Berbatov seem like they could play in our team with ease.
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DONT SUPPOSE NE1 KNOWS ANYTHIN ABOUT OUR NEW BOY JOHN COFIE??
reckon wee’l win pretty easy tomo, BBurn will put up a fight but cant see them stoppin us.
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Cofie is only 14 and recently graduated from diapers and the nursing bottle. You won’t be seeing him play anywhere near Old Trafford for 4 to 5 years I think.
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Conor; I am reading some disturbing articles the Bayern Munich executives like Beckenbauer and Rummenigge are apparently upset with manager Ottmar Hitzfeld’s rotation policy and in particular the lineup he put out against Bolton. Their current run of poor form may lead to a managerial change as Hitzfeld’s contract does run out at the end of this season.
The reason I bring this up to you and United fans is the fact that Franz Beckenbauer is actually good friends with someone we all recognize well, by the name of Jose Mourinho.
Mourinho did say in interviews after leaving Chelsea that he would not be adverse to managing in the Bundesliga and other than Italian, German was a language he wanted to learn.
I may be blowing steam here and this slight bump in the road for Bayern will end, but not only were the Bayern executives upset at squad selection but also in the team play starting to resemble last season’s overall poor performance. Bayern is a massive club with very deep pockets and great pride and heritage. I could see them boldly going after the Special One. Just an interesting angle to ponder in the weeks ahead.
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[Grognard]
That would be a conflict of interests, wouldn’t it? On one hand you have Bayern. And on the other you have the ‘shit on a stick’ brand that Mourinho would bring to the club. I honestly thought Valencia would take Jose. But given the political turmoil there, Mourinho would have been sane enough to avoid it.
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I agree Red Ranter but Bayern has a history of hiring managers that do not follow the tactical philosophy of offensive minded individuals like Beckenbauer, Hoeness and Rummenigge. Trappatoni and Magath are only two such examples. Mourinho is very high profile and probably an interested if not willing candidate. I think they would look at him.
As for Valencia, I believe that they are a tier two European power like Porto, Bremen, Roma, PSV, Ajax etc. Very good side but they are not Inter, Milan, Juventus, Bayern, United, Chelski, Arsenal, Barcelona and Real. I intentionally left out Liverpool on principal. I honestly cannot see Mourinho lowering himself and going to a team equal in stature to Porto. He wants a team with real pedigree and above all MONEY. He can’t function with out a large transfer kitty. The real question is could he function under the watchful eye of Uli Hoeness who is more of a watchdog than Abramovich, and much more football astute? Lets just say I put this theory out there first and we will we see in a few months if I’m full of shite or not. Hey! And I’m not full of shite already
PS: And to all of you out there, I will try very hard not to be so over sensitive in the future. I apologize for my tangent. It really got us off the theme of football. A good couple of hours of Call of Duty 4 – Modern Warfare on my XBOX 360 helped rid me of all my angst and hostility. Actually, talking about Berbatov was boring me anyway. The guy is a lazy, moody wanker.
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WHAT A JOKE!
JUST ANNOUNCED
European Footballer of the Year Award. The FIFA Pro World XI is as follows:
Giaunluigi Buffon (Juventus)
Alessandro Nesta (AC Milan)
Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid CF)
John Terry (Chelsea FC)
Carles Puyol (FC Barcelona)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United FC)
Kaká (AC Milan)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool FC)
Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona)
Didier Drogba (Chelsea FC)
Ronaldinho (FC Barcelona)
For fun and the sake of argument here is my eleven as follows;
CECH
NESTA
CANNVARO (for his World Cup, not his play at Madrid)
CARVALHO
LAHM
RONALDO
KAKA
RIQUELME
MESSI
TOTTI
DROGBA
Honorable mentions to ESSIEN, FERDINAND, VIDIC, van NISTELROOY, MARIO GOMEZ and WAYNE ROONEY
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Yep. A load of bollocks really. Btw, a request; It would be great if you turn off the caps lock key. The capitals feel grating to the eye, and at times it gives the impression that someone is shouting at you.
Ronaldinho, Terry and Puyol’s inclusions especially are baffling to say the least.
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fine jb, i am replacing barca with qpr my hometown heroes(no bias there either)
berbs would be a waste of hard earned(lol) money, we will have to pay 30 odd million for him and he’ll be on the bench most of the time, i was thinking we could either do two things:
a rumour going around is that scouserville want camron jones, and give away peter crouch in an exchange deal, then we offer them money that they simply cant refuse, and we take peter crouch, and in an exchange deal, they can have saha and evans OR we just buy jones.
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who the fuck is camron jones?
Unless you mean Kenwyne.
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hey RR
are you still doing stats or are you finding real life commitments make it a real hassle?
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You know grognard I was thinking the same thing, there’s every chance that Jose Mourinho could go there as I remember him saying he wanted to learn German. I always thought that Ottmar Hitzfield was just a temporary manager until a big manager became available, but then they give him lots of money to throw around and now I’m not too sure they’ll chuck him out so quickly, and do you really think they’ll give Mourinho the money? Because after spending so much recently and the fact that they’re not a big spending club, I wouldn’t have thought so.Dan why would we get Peter Crouch exactly? No well actually fair enough he’s a good goalscorer and not too bad all round player but how much do you think we’d have to pay for him? Because I don’t think he’d want Saha, since he knows he’s injury prone, and as far as I know, he’s not Spanish
And about Valencia, at one time they looked like moving intothe top tier of top teams, when Benitez managed them, but after he left they completely lost it and without David Villa they would be a mid table team.
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There’s a really huge difference between Cantona and Berba! Thought both may be “trouble makers”, if i’m not wrong, Fergie described Cantona as the one who kicked the drinking culture in United and inspired the other players, while Berbatov is being described as a “lazy bastard”
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[RedRanter]
Regarding the LONG posts:
Perhaps you can consider changing the theme colours?
Maybe change the comments section to normal ‘black-on-white’, or something a bit more nuetral?
‘Black-on-grey’ has a tendency to seem a bit dull and therefore makes the long paragraphs seem more longer than what they are. Maybe this will help with making long posts seem not so long?
Not trying to criticise, just trying to help. If you don’t think it will be of benefit, then discard the idea.
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Hey guys (Grognard and Conor), why is no one including Lahm in their list of world class players at Bayern? He can get into any damn team in the world!!
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redranter mind your language!!! loser you were telling everyone else to talk properly before so do it yourself hipocrite
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I never said anything about swearing. I said stuff about attacking people. If you’ve read this blog at all, you would have noticed swear words in the articles even in the past. So if you do have anything productive to say do so.
Use of foul language to some extent is allowed here. Attacking people is not. Hope you do get the difference before labelling someone a hypocrite.
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True Shreyas he could get into any team in the world probably, but that’s because most teams lack a truly great fullback, I’m not sure I would call him world class yet, he produces moments of brilliance but he’s still getting better.
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What market value would Lahm command these days?
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Lahm would cost a mint. He’s the best LWB in the world. His only weakness is he’s a bit injury prone. He is also just as good at RB, which is what he’s playing right now for Germany and Bayern. Very versatile to say the least.
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RedRanter, with the way you are talking about Berbatov you would probably have been amongst the fans wondering what thr heck we were thinking signing a certain troublesome French genius from Leeds. WE all know how that turned out….
Berbatov lays into his teammates because he is a winner. He is proud and hates losing. So don’t expect him to have kind words for his spurs teammates or Bulgaria team mates. That’s tehw ay of such geniuses like him.
WE obviously need 4 strikers at our club. And Berbatov would be a sensational addition as the 4th man. Period!
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[Keith]
You probably haven’t read the earlier comments on this post where I said why it was unfair to compare him with Cantona. But I’ll say it once again.
Cantona was well known for his training methods and commitment. He had actually revolutionized the training methods and as one other commenter pointed out above, helped kick the drinking culture in a big way for good. He used to be among the first to report to training and used to request Sir Alex to borrow some team mates to do some more training even in late hours. Plus, if you did read the second Guardian article I linked to in my post, you would see how Berba’s performance itself didn’t warrant him laying into his own team. He missed a couple of gilt edged chances in that match. So he shouldn’t have blamed the team for that.
Remember he was the darling of Bulgaria — a pin up boy in his country. He would have done something seriously wrong to have become a number one hate figure in his country.
The test of character of a player is when the chips are down. And he isn’t giving a good enough account of himself at the moment. I may be wrong, but right now it doesn’t look good for me.
Another flaw in your argument is using him as a 4th striker. 4th striker? He would cost upwards of 15-20 million pounds. That much for a back up beggars logic and common sense. Even the Glazers wouldn’t consent. I seriously doubt that given Tevez was signed. We would be well served with a player who would be average, good in the air and does the simple things well. I am not sure who that person could be, but for me it certainly will not be Berbatov.
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“We would be well served with a player who would be average, good in the air and does the simple things well. I am not sure who that person could be, but for me it certainly will not be Berbatov.”
PETER CROUCH
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Red Ranter you missed the point. Before Cantona came to United he had the worst reputation a player could have. And at or Leeds, especially before he left, he wasn’t at is best, yet he wasn’t getting on with anyone.Despite his incredible talent. That is why it’s fair to compare them.
Berbatov is even less of a bad boy yet is also incredibly talented.
Eric before we signed him was known to be absoulute trouble. Always dissing teammates. And in the past had even punched his coaches. But he had the talent. SAF knew such talent was worth the risk. All Eric needed was the right platform to blossom. A manager like SAF and a club like Manchester United gave him that. For he was surrounded by only real quality unlike at Leeds. Bring Berbatov to a club like United and he would explode.I’ve seen many bad boys reform at big clubs. Cantona was one. RVP at Arsenal springs to mind too. At Feyenoord he was what you’ve described Berbatov as. Yet At Arsenal he was been the model professional. I just think your animosity towards Bebatov is needless.
Secondly. I said we need 4 strikers. I never said he would be 4th choice. Just the 4th (man)striker on our books. One of 4 top forwards to compete for 2 starting roles. Just like in 99. Which is what we need. Which is to have competition/cover for the injury prone Saha & Rooney.
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