May 17
Some Love For Saha | Ole on Current Squad | Tevez
A very good morning to you all. Assuming you did manage to wake up on a Saturday morning, sober enough to read this.
As the days draw ever so close to the Champions’ League final, news comes from Moscow as police from the Russian capital outline their plans for tackling fan violence.
It’s good to see that local police are taking steps for the fans’ safety, but the ban on public drinking and the absence of outdoor TV screens will not sit too kindly with the travelling folk. That said, the club has clearly warned United fans against travelling to Moscow if they had no ticket.
Louis Saha has pretty much resigned himself to the reality that it could be his last season at Old Trafford. The Frenchman has been dogged with injuries throughout his United career and that reputation has made him legendary — only recently rivalled by Tomas Rosicky, who apparently is not even sure if he can recover from his injury. But while we’ve all been left frustrated, breaking several objects in our vicinity every time we saw a starting XI minus Saha — especially in games where his attributes would have helped greatly — a part of us still feels sorry for the lad. Today’s article on the Guardian features his feelings for the club and his own frustrations:
“I know it [the final] could be my last game, and I would understand if the manager went for another striker. It would be painful if he did and it’s painful even to talk about it because I love the club so much. But it’s been very hard for me this season. This is the best and biggest club in the world and the fact is that I’ve had very few chances. I do get miserable when I am injured and it’s very tense for my family because I want to play and I want to win things, so when that chance is taken away from me I can’t help but be in a bad mood. I’m 29 now and I wanted to improve again this year because that’s what you have to do at a club like this. But it’s difficult when you get injured. You are staying in the same place all the time.”
Think about it for a minute. Yes, he’s our balsa boy. Yes he seems at times a bit too fragile mentally to not be able to play through a pain barrier. But we can’t apportion the blame squarely on him. It’s not entirely his fault that he ruptures his tendon while walking his dog. While players blame injuries, Saha seems almost apologetic; almost telling us sorry for staying injured. Perhaps, he feels guilty for not repaying the fans’ and the manager’s faith in him by playing regularly. [Remember it was SAF who dumped Ruud in favour of Saha in what were early days leading to the fluid formation that United possess today, and it showed when Saha played alongside Rooney in the first half of the 06/07 season]
That said, I think he knows and everyone knows that the writing is on the wall as far as Saha’s United career is concerned. The only question is, who’ll be daft enough to take a chance on him.
Meanwhile Solskjaer has drawn parallels with the current squad from that of ‘99 in terms of it’s depth.
Carlos Tevez is probably one player Ronaldo could learn from. While it may be a bit premature, considering the direction two other Argentinians’ careers took at United, him saying that he could sign today if a contract was put to him would only make him more endearing to fans. The lion hearted Tevez seems to only get better as the season wears on (just as he did for West Ham) and he’s played himself into contention for a starting place from his performances in recent games. What a player!
And finally — while this is old news — thanks to piss drunk Rangers fans who couldn’t keep a lid on themselves we won’t be seeing a victory parade from the lads anytime soon.
That’s all from me. I’ll see if I can catch a bit of the FA Cup action, and I am sure quite a few of you would be watching it for having a closer look at Aaron Ramsey, who we’ve been heavily linked with.
Let’s see how that goes, before we revert to discussing stuff in general… you know, like life, United and everything.
Cheerio.
Related items from Red Rants:- Should Saha leave Manchester United?
- Why United Should Hold On To Smith
- Evaluating the United players who faced Chelsea
- United to Sign Another Striker
- Preparing to beat Reading
Tags: Daily Roundup
May 17th, 2008 at 10:27
Saha will probably leave. With Campbell, Manucho and Welbeck becoming good players and Fergie saying that he will look for a striker this summer, I cant see him staying. But you are right, who will want to buy him? Possibly a club in Fulhams or Wigans statue, but maybe he will join a club like Lyon or Barco if he moves abroud. Leagues there are not so hard fysical. He should leave for about the same amount that Smudge was sold for, and use those money to buy Huntelaar or someone else, a real GOALSCORER! That is what we need.
Tevez, I love you! You seem to enjoy it here, and you can see on his face that he is always happy. I love the way he celebrates too! Against Spurs and Rovers, Tevez ripped his shirt off, kissed the badge and looked happy like a little kid that has just seen Santa in person. He shows commitment in every game, and if there ever was a player i can rely scoreing in the last 5 minutes when we trail 1-0 or are drawing it will be you! And Ronaldo really have something to learn from you. Keep up the good work and please score the winning goal in the final on wednesday!
May 17th, 2008 at 10:28
cool…….saha to newcastle and martins to MU, a pretty similar player to Saha who is younger, faster, deadlier, more consistent, skillfull, and SURELY NOT SO INJURY PRONE! An exchange maybe? or with Sunderland’s Jones! hahaha! cheers people!
May 17th, 2008 at 10:30
what do u guys think? good idea?
May 17th, 2008 at 10:52
Martins is explosive but very inconsistant, i’d be very suprised if Fergie was interested.
Just heard that Phillip Lahm has signed a contract extension with Bayern Munich so there goes our hopes of signing him. Richards it is then…….
I can see Saha coming on near the end of the game on weds and popping up with the winner, then all the stick he has got will be forgotten and he will leave the club a legend.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:54
Well I have to confess I do love the guy, Saha is a really good player skillful fast and everything we actually need in a striker BUT and thats probably the biggest but he cant stay injury free if his entire familys life depended on it, we should sell him to Lyon or something in the french league so he can stay closer to his family specially when hes injured LOL.
And Tevez is probably my player of the year (not including Ronaldo) he has been fantastic all season long he had no dip in form maybe an occasional bad night but consistant throughout truly an amazing player.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:04
yep, i’ll be watching the cup final purely to see aaron ramsey, though it looks like he’ll be starting on the bench according to cardiff fans.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:27
I had a dream about the Final and Saha was on the bench.
So maybe he will come on if we need him and give a new dimension to our attacking options. I really like Saha and when he plays i feel confindent but the problem is he doesnt play often enough
May 17th, 2008 at 12:32
Is it really fair to other players though, who have ran their bollocks off in all the other European games, to be left out of the final 18, and Saha come in when he has contributed little?. I just hope Hargo is in our midfield from the start. He knows what it is to play and WIN these big final games in Europe. I fear a Scholesy/Carrick midfield against Chelsea’s midfield. But maybe you all disagree!. We certainly need to play our experienced players, who know what it is to win in Europe. Tevez is a COMBATANT, and works dog hard every game. I think he is a UNITED player, whereas Ronnie is playing first and foremost always to showcase his talents, with unquenchable desire to be world No 1. Did you ever hear Kaka or Messi, and the great world No 1’s of the past harping on all the time ABOUT BEING NO 1?. Ronnie is so full of it sometimes. Sorry to any Ronnie massives on here who love him no matter what. I’m not trying to goad anyone. Please Fergie, just get you midfield right, because that’s where Chelski will definately be most powerful!!!.
May 17th, 2008 at 12:36
saha is a very good player exept his tendency to get injured. last season when he played regularly with rooney upfront that was one of our best footballing period ever. we dominated games completely and defences had no clue how to deal with our fluid attacking formation. but now sha’s time at OT looks like its over.
And I hope to watch the FA Cup final to watch ramsey.
we could have been there in prtsouth’s place to have a shot at the trebleonly for the referee to screw us up…it pains me greatly.
And we will be playing the winners in the next season’s curtain raiser the coomunity shield.
May 17th, 2008 at 13:33
Is Aaron Ramsey the son of Gordon Ramsey or something? I will be watching the FA cup final today, and like Faizan said, had it not been for Popmey we could have won 2 trophies before the CL final. Looking forward to play Pompey/Cardiff in the Charithy Shield game in August. It will be the first time since…dont know actually, but it will be the first time we dont play a top 4 side in the CS after the Prem began, I think.
May 17th, 2008 at 14:14
If Saha had been able to stay fit he would have become a United legend. We do not play with strikers any more, but Saha for me has everything you are looking for in a striker.
Tevez has integrity. He will leave United one day, but only when the club is willing to let him go and he is past his prime. He will give his best years to us.
May 17th, 2008 at 14:35
craig mc, totally agree with you about Ronaldos obsession with himself and being the best in the world. He has been great this season and deserves the awards that he has recieved but I for one am getting a bit sick of his comments about wanting to be no 1 and this thing when he throws his arms up and looks over at the dugout everytime he gets tackled is starting to get on my nerves. If he stays next season they might even change the name from Manchester United to Ronaldo United.
Your also correct when you state that it would be unfair on the likes of Ando and Fletch if they missed out on a Final berth because of Saha, Neville or Sivestre.
Anderson definately deserves to be included in the final shake up but his lack of games recently gives me a real bad feeling about SAFs thoughts on this and I would even go as far as to say that if Ando was not selected, it would be one of SAFs worst pieces of man management ever.
May 17th, 2008 at 14:47
gordon ramsey the fella on hell’s kitchen??????
anyway, other then the back 5 selection being obvious, i think it will be a 5 man midfield park/giggs, scholes, carrick, hargo, ronaldo
and rooney alone upfront… then in the second half, park/giggs off for tevez and scholes for anderson, hargo for fletcher…
May 17th, 2008 at 14:53
What is important is that the 18 players are well balanced and gives us all the right options depending on what happens during the game. Saha needs to be on the bench cos if we are chasing a goal then i’d rather he came on then say Anderson. Will be intersting the squad he goes for but I can see it being experience over youth.
May 17th, 2008 at 15:53
Saha will definitely leave this summer since we will be having campbell and Manucho back to the team which is going to limit his chances the more …I feel this poor lad , he is such a great player but injury has always been a problem
May 17th, 2008 at 16:29
Craig, I agree that our midfield may be inferior to Chelsea’s, but in my opinion, a midfield of Scholes, Fletcher, and Hargo could handle them easily. I would choose Fletch over Carrick because he is more physical, and would actually be able to head some crosses goalward. Also, we all know he steps up in big games.
May 17th, 2008 at 17:04
ramsey diffenatly has potential, i thought he was pretty average when he came on initially, then when he started getting into the game, dare i say it, showed glimpses of a primed out giggs with his dribbling, and the vision of scholes(i say vision and not passing because he wasn’t passing the ball that well and i hope he had an of day).
May 17th, 2008 at 17:16
I just woke up and have to share my wonderful nightmare. Manchester United had won the Champions League final by a 1-0 score. That was the wonderful part. The nightmare part is that Louis Saha scored the big goal late in the game. Why is that a bit of a nightmare in my mind? Most of you know my feelings on Louis Saha. I’d hate to be indebted with gratitude to the Balsa Boy. YUK!
May 17th, 2008 at 17:22
in other news, the EPL have become one of the most dominate leagues in Europe with a whopping 9 teams playing in europe next season, near half the league. 9 teams, 3 competitions, we are bound to win 1 or 2 of them…
May 17th, 2008 at 17:30
Hasta lavista Louis. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. It would probably knock you out and then you would demand United pay for the damages while you recuperate in hospital for three months. He’s not gone yet but I’ll say it anyway. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
And to all of you bleeding hearts who want to cuddle sweet Louis in your arms and tell him he is loved, Be careful, he may sprain something.
Sending him to any team is also a risk as he may have an accident on the way there. I guess you all can tell I hate the guy. No intestinal fortitude. It’s kind of funny that he was ready and fit to play for the final game of the season and the CL final. How convenient! He doesn’t have to do shit but he can share in the spoils. Sell him to Derby.
May 17th, 2008 at 17:30
Grognard; It’s fair to say you don’t like Saha and he is frustrating, but you just basically said you would be annoyed if Saha scored the winner for us. That’s senseless and illogical, and is very likely to happen with Saha’s recent record against Chelsea. That is, if he makes it past the warm up session
.
We already are indebted to the Balsa Boy, as without him, we wouldn’t have had the blistering start to the season we had last year, Ruud would still be here and we would be stuck in transition like we were for a few years.
He scored the opening goal of the season, to start off our good run, scored the winner in the Benfica and Celtic matches to keep our run going, scored the winner against Chelsea, scored the opening goal against Portsmouth, the winner against Blackburn and the opener against Everton. It’s hard to deny that if we did not have Saha last season, we probably would not have won the league last season.
These facts also show that he was a main reason behind why we killed teams off so quickly last season, something we have failed to do this season. He also gave Carrick, Scholes and Giggs a target to aim at, giving them a better platform to play their game.
This season, he scored 5 goals in 5 starts, proven quality. He scored the equaliser against Sunderland(and 2 goals against them away) and the final goal in the win over Chelsea. Without these goals, Chelsea would have had hope that they could have won the league, and they would have been on top at one stage, giving them a psychological advantage.
Whether you like him or not, he’s proven he is a brilliant player no matter how much money was ‘wasted’ on him.
He uses his agility to turn players brilliantly, better than anyone I have seen and I mean that genuinely, he holds the ball up in our team better than anyone, and he has done what was asked of him when he was on the pitch.
May 17th, 2008 at 17:40
Kurt, that’s what I mean mate, hopefully Fergie will pick the right midfield. Carrick as mentioned so many times is brilliant at passing, but he is no strong tackler. Scholesy does go in hard for the tackle, but misses the ball most of the time and gets the man. We don’t want to be reduced to ten men in the final!. Yet Scholesy is experienced at playing in Europe, been there, done that!. So he will start I am sure. We need experience and winners in this match, so I think Tev, Scholesy, our normal back 4, Rooney, HARGO MUST BE, Fletch and Ronnie. I do worry about Ronnie though, because he irritates ref’s with his arm raising antics each time he is tackled. Ronnie is easily pushed off the ball in big games, and doesn’t seem to be able to get up and fight back. Sorry Ron fans, but he is easily outmuscled in the big games. He doesn’t need to be either, as he showed in the Roma away again, where he went in where it hurts and with force to get his away goal. And no everone, I am not a Ronnie hater!.
I agree with Fred the Red about Ronnie obviously!. But I hope the title Ronaldo United never materialises LOL!.
I know what it feels like at away matches, some United players like Rio, Vid, Tev etc can be having magic games, yet the fans still chant Ronaldo’s name, and sing Ronnie and Andi’s songs. What must the other players feel like!. Nani for instance tries his heart out, and seeing he has 9 assists, 1 less than Roon, I think he has actually contributed more to Man U’s cause than Andi this season, but where is his song?. Still, someday he will be appreciated I am sure. Til then, I will champion his cause, whether peeps like it or not. So hope we bring back the European cup, whoever Fergie chooses.
May 17th, 2008 at 17:42
thats all right conor
but this season he scored 5 goals and pocketed maybe 3-4million quid (plus the medal)!!! Thats pretty expensive per goal really [for a striker]
May 17th, 2008 at 17:51
But is that his fault? He never asked to be injured all of the time, and he seems to regret the way things have turned out. If he can give us another good half of a season like he did last year, then there is no doubt he will be an asset. He was definitely one of the top 5 most important players last season even though he missed half of it.
He has played more games that Van Persie in the last two years, but you don’t see Arsenal fans asking to sell him, even though I would put them on a par in terms of ability. Do you know why? Because we have the money to replace him, we already have 2 of the best strikers in the Premier League ahead of him so he becomes useless. That’s the general opinion towards Saha, which shows a lack of loyalty, footballing knowledge and common sense to be honest.
Were fans asking for Ole to move on when he looked like he would never come back? Or more importantly, were you?
We may not buy a striker at all, SAF said we were going to buy “an experienced forward player to replace Giggs”, and he’s been known to spring a surprise, so who knows. He just got Tevez who will cost £20m, why would he get another £15m+ to leave Carlos on the bench?
If we don’t buy another striker, we won’t have a plan B and that could prove to be our main problem next season. If we don’t buy a striker should we still ship out Saha? Would Campbell/Wellbeck/Manucho be up to it?
May 17th, 2008 at 17:57
Dont forget Saha’s back heel pass to Evra which Evra then gave to Ronaldo for our 2nd goal against Arsenal at the Emirates.
I absolutely disagree with Grognard and agree with you Conor, yes he is the worst player alive in terms of injury but he is a brilliant footballer.
May 17th, 2008 at 18:27
Saudi: It is worth noting the impact Saha had on the Chelsea game at home. If you need to bring someone off the bench to try and stretch the game then he is the man. For that reason alone he should be on the bench in the final.
Conor: I wouldn’t fancy having the likes of Welbeck, Campbell and Manucho as our third choice striker next year. They are all big risks, IMO too big a risk to be relying on them as our main striker back up.
May 17th, 2008 at 18:31
JB; Neither would I, as I think SAF still has a lack of belief in them right now and we know to trust his judgement. If he feels they are not ready, then we should not be risking our whole season on being able to cope with injuries up front. Whether or not Saha deserves to play in peoples’ eyes, there is no doubting he is the one player we could bring off the bench to completely change our game plan to attack and Chelsea’s game plan to defend.
May 17th, 2008 at 18:45
Bravo Connor!
I don’t need to write anything cause you just voiced out all my views.
Good Luck Ptit Louis! Hope you have a great season wherever you go, just to show ‘em fickle doubters.
Though, knowing them, they’ll probably just moan about why you couldn’t do it for us, something like that…
May 17th, 2008 at 18:46
Conor: I think some people have a rather different criteria for deserving to play in a match than we do. I believe if you increase our chances of winning the final then you should be in the team or on bench. And Saha most definitely fits that bill.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:14
Since Fergie can dress seven subs for the game I guarantee that Saha will be one of them. Hold on! Strike that last comment. He will be on the subs bench if he is transported to Moscow in a protective bubble properly heated and kept away from sharp objects. Then again he will sprain a muscle in warm up. Seriously people, who the fuck cares if he score a handful of useless goals when at the end of the day he can roll his wheelchair home and collect his large paycheck. He isn’t worth shit in my eyes and for the individual who brought up Van Persie, I say the same about that brittle twig as well. I have no use for players whose careers have been spent in the hospital. Oh it’s not his fault he hurt himself walking his dog or when he was warming up or when he went to toilet to take a dump. Give me a frakken break already! It’s not like United hasn’t given Saha enough breaks? And Saha rewards them with his ability to break down at the sign of a stiff breeze. Players like him suffer from a very low pain tolerance and no intestinal fortitude. Simply put, no guts no glory. He has never found the strength to suit up when he was hurting. Players need to occasionally play with pain and discomfort for the good of the squad. When his knee acts up he has never said “You know I should take a pain killer and give it my best shot.” Countless other players in the game do. I may not like John Terry but the player has to be forced out of a game physically due to an injury. What are the chances Saha would play in the final if he had dislocated his elbow a week ago? Slim and none. Hell! He wouldn’t play if he scraped his elbow or if a mosquito bit him. He is a sissy and a wimp. Sure he has talent and when healthy and fully focused he can contribute. But over the the years he has been here, how many times can we say his presence was important and his reliability was key to our success? The man is completely useless for the money he was paid. He can piss off for all I care and nobody’s comments are going to change my mind on the Tosser. We all have a right to dislike whomever we choose. My choice is Saha. I’m sure everybody has a player at some point in their lives that just rubbed them the wrong way.
Having said that it is essential that he be on the bench as we may need a third striker late in the game to come back or to relieve a tired one. If he ends up being a hero, fine, I’ll be happy and ecstatic for the team but my feelings will not change on Louis. But I will thank him for finally showing up once when it counted. I won’t bet my life savings on it though.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:15
JB; I know, but sure they are the ‘true’ fans here so who are we to question their judgement.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:31
A heart warming display of support Grognard.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:34
nice grognard nice. conor your completely right, saha is one of the best strikers in the world when he is fit and on form, he was easily key to our success last season in the premier league and if he was fit for the whole campaign this season i strongly doubt pompey would of lift the cup today. which ever way you put it, he is one of the best.
and on the subject of useless players that have promise, podolski comes to my mind, or am i wrong grognard.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:44
Saha gets easily injured, we all know that. But like Conor says, he is a great player. I would love him to stay fit for his part more than anything. But I think the time has come for him to move on. All the things you say are true, but he will never become the player he was 2 seasons ago. I would love him to prove me wrong, cause I love the guy for what he has done for the club: First 5 games of his United career were out of this world, played amazingly in the 2005/06 season, showed what he could do in the 2007 season, but again he got injured. Had it not been for his goals against Chelski and Sunderland this season, and his pass to Evra at the Emirates we may not have won the League. Still his time has come, I say sell him and buy Benzema/Huntelaar.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:49
Oh, and Grogs…I seriously doubt you will hate Saha after he has won us the Champions League!
(Yeez, yesterday he was a love poet, today he is talking shit about one of our players. What cant happen in 24 hours?) 
May 17th, 2008 at 19:50
Alright im going out on the limb here and say that this ramsey stuff is 97% true:
link 1, bbc 606 a few weeks ago
link 2, the daily mirror today
May 17th, 2008 at 19:56
Grognard; Is it necessary to talk about a player in that way? Maybe other people do dislike certain players at this club, as you have assumed, but none of them have talked about them in the way you have constantly kicked Saha while he is down. I for one don’t dislike any players, sure people may think Dong was a waste of money and isn’t cut out for our team, or that Kuszczak is a nervy keeper and should be sold, but we all know that talking down on one of our players in the manner you have is wrong in every way. It makes people cringe.
May 17th, 2008 at 19:57
again, i agree with conor.
May 17th, 2008 at 20:54
why the lack of comments all of a sudden.
May 17th, 2008 at 21:14
Whoa, some harsh words there for Saha! When he is actually playing he’s awesome, great hold up, strong, fast and a reasonable finisher - certainly better than our other two strikers in that regard. But he’s barely played in the 4 years he’s been with us. At some point Grognard is right, it has to be something fundamentally wrong with him. It can’t be our physios, they seem alright, so just maybe not meant to be an athelete, his body can’t handle it.
That said, a lot of people have correctly pointed out the need for a ‘plan b’ late in matches, well surely he could be that? Lower chance of injury not starting (maybe someone needs to teach him how to warm up properly) and he’s a handful for any tiring defence. I’d have him on the bench Wednesday just for that reason. If it’s late in the game and we need to lump some into the box, then would you rather have him or Tevez, Rooney and Anderson to aim at? Didn’t think so. Then again we do have John O’shea…:)
May 17th, 2008 at 21:47
On the Saha issue: the boy is a quality player. SAF thought enough of him to pay 12million for him, and in the periods where he has been consistently fit he’s done well. We can hardly say he’s played many bad games for us, the problem is just how few games he’s played at all. I think he’s got it all; strength, speed, skill, a good shot (plus he’s left-footed, which adds an extra dimension), aerial ability, intelligence. The only things he lacks are fitness and confidence, which are part of the same issue. I wish him a happy and healthy career at another club, but would like to add that I hope he never scores against us.
15 mins at the end of the Champions League final and I bet we’ll all be begging to keep him.
May 17th, 2008 at 22:02
It may be worth recapping on Saha’s situation. It was strongly rumoured when he was bought that he was already carrying a long standing knee complaints. It is suggested that the club medical identifies the issue but the transfer is pushed through by SAF regardless. He starts off last season in the starting 11 and puts in a series of excellent performances in the first half of the year. He proves to be very important in stretching the opposition and providing us with a key outlet. IMO he is a major factor in a number of impressive victories in moderately difficult away games (i.e. Bolton, Boro and Blackburn), the types of fixtures we had a lot of difficulty with this season.
He is dropped from the first team on the arrival of Henrik Larsson and begins to suffer a series of niggly injuries. Towards the end of the season SAF looks to have lost patience with him and makes comments in a press conference suggesting he believed that Saha’s problems were mental rather than physical in nature. Rumours circulate that there has been a bust up between the two after SAF asked Saha to play through injury and he responded by saying something along the lines that you didn’t need me when Larsson was here so you shouldn’t need me now. Saha looks almost certain to be on his way at the end of the season.
Subsequently the clubs medical staff discovers a problem with Saha’s knee which they had missed earlier in the season. The injury verifies Saha’s string of lay offs and he goes under surgery during the summer. SAF comes out backing Saha in a number of press conferences this season and turns down a £7m bid from Bolton as late as this January. If SAF still believed that Saha was picking and choosing his games would he have survived two transfer windows?
On the comments about playing through the pain barrier, does anyone in fact know that his injuries are something you can play through? For example the last batch of injuries were hamstring ones. These types of injuries are ones that you don’t try to run off or play through. As for painkilling injections, they are something that SAF has previously stated a dislike of using and as a club we have (publicly) rarely made much use of them.
May 17th, 2008 at 22:08
[Conor]
I think we’ve been past that. Nothing we say is going to change Grognard’s opinion on Saha and he’s entitled to that. I know where you’re coming from regarding talking about United players. We usually don’t talk like that about any United player — typically support them through their hard times. But Grognard, in the midst of all the overtly harsh criticism, has a point: his fitness (or lack of it) frustrates us no end.
Personally, I would never criticise a player just for being a crock. It just feels wrong to me. For me, a player must be judged on his performances on the pitch, and I can’t fault Saha on that count. When fit he is as good as any striker we currently have on the pitch. Saha will always remain a case of ‘what could have been’ and it’s a shame he hasn’t been fit during his time at United.
Should he be sold? Yes, certainly, if we get an able replacement.
Does he deserve criticism? A little. But I would rather criticise a player for poor performance on the pitch. For example, some of the criticism Giggs got (and even Scholes got) was deserved because they were poor in certain games. But over doing it, like some people did with our legends, does not sit well with me.
Oh, well, that’s my opinion anyway.
May 17th, 2008 at 22:11
[JB]
Yes true. Saha apparently didn’t clear his medical when he signed from Fulham but Fergie went with it anyway.
May 17th, 2008 at 22:15
The unfortunate thing about this whole Saha debate is both points of view are correct.
When he is fit and firing on all cylinders he is a good player who is quick and strong and holds the ball up well which gives us a different point of attack in certain matches that Rooney and Tevez struggle to provide at times.
But theres no getting away from it, the guys injury record is one of the worst that I can remember and SAF can no longer put off signing another striker coz wether we like it or not Sahas fitness record makes relying on him totally futile.
I do have sympathy for him, but I cant see us getting away with having only 2 recognised strikers for all most a full season again.
Go for the Hunter.
May 18th, 2008 at 0:38
Unfortunately this club does not run on sentimentality alone. And what else is Saha going to say. Even Fergie has questioned Saha on his injuries in the past. Saha is a spent force and the only reason he might be at the club next year is because they couldn’t offload him. I will say this though, Saha on form would rival any onther top striker in Europe hands down. Unfortunately, merit alone doesn’t get you the win.
May 18th, 2008 at 0:52
Now that I’ve read back over the posts. RR you seem to always have to back up Grognard for some reason. People should be aloud to voice their concerns about what he says, just as he is to say them. I for one would never talk down a person’s credibilty as a whole, rather just their performances. Where as Grognard seems to go for the soul. Why do you feel the need to back him up RR? Let him answer his own critics, because there seems to be a growing number of people on here who are being disenchanted with his remarks.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:15
[TinManUnited]
I was backing Grognard? In fact I don’t agree with him on so many counts. I wanted to chime in on my views on Saha
If you have problem, however, about people expressing their free opinion on United I don’t understand what’s wrong with that. If you wish to respond to this get in touch via email. Not here in public.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:44
RedRanter, you don’t allow people to vilify each other on this blog, so why is it ok to vilify, or speak really badly about some of the players?. Are they not entitled to the same kind of common decency as the rest of us?. I have no problems at all with anybody having opinions about United as you put it, even forceful opinions, but Tin Man has a point about the way we express these opinions sometimes!.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:25
[Craig mc]
I don’t allow people to villify each other on this blog because it’s my duty as a moderator to allow people to discuss freely about United. That is the only purpose of the blog: Discussing about United. It is not to discuss each other’s personal problems or to call fellow commenters’ names because it hurts the other person.
As for United: this site is for you to rant as much as you can about the club. Vent your spleen on players club manager etc good or bad. It is for expressing FREE opinion on United. So if Free opinion means criticizing a player so be it, as long as the person justifies it.
In this example, Grognard was harsh on Saha, in my opinion overtly harsh. I disagree, and so I should tell him why I disagree. Free opinions discussed from both sides. I cannot start drawing lines on what you must say and what you must not on United. Because it will be a slippery slope.
The power of the internet allows freedom of expression. I want to allow that on my site, as long as fellow commenters are not hurt due to personal attacks. Free expression should come without clauses and conditions. Only then can we make the best use of this medium. If you disagree ignore the commenter, but don’t try to attack him. Simple.
Is that too much to ask?
May 18th, 2008 at 2:36
And full disclosure, I actually agree with Conor’s comments regarding voicing opinions on players. But it is my personal opinion, I can’t expect Grognard or anyone to express their hatred for a player in a certain way as I want.
I disagree with many people here, but I won’t delete their comments just because I disagree with their opinions.
Unless of course it’s a scouser or a twat from the council house trying to wind people up.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:42
RR - I was actually agreeing with you, I don’t think people should ever vilify each other, and THAT INCLUDES NOT VILIFYING THE PLAYERS!. If you read my post carefully, I wasn’t mentioning Grog or anybody, I purposely used the words, how WE express our sentiments sometimes can offend others. Anyway, we all see things differently, so fine!.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:04
Sky sports news have just had a look at tommorows papers and quite a few of them are reporting that Ronaldo is staying for one more year out of respect for SAF but that he will be considering his options next summer.
If this is the case then I think that SAF should be plotting our post Ronaldo course now and our transfer targets this summer should be bought with this in mind.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:25
the boys over at Red Cafe seem to have picked up on this and if the interview with Ronaldo that they quoted is accurate it would certainly put an imminent transfer in doubt
May 18th, 2008 at 3:49
The Ronaldo thing is just his agent trying to force us into offering him a new contract. I think Ferguson will turn him down, simply because Ronaldo committed last summer. Then he’ll say something along the lines of “continue in this form and we’ll give you an offer that’ll blow your mind”. Ronaldo has to earn new contacts just like anyone else, and to give him one now would be to capitulate to fear/his demands and would be the start of another “bigger than the team” situation. On the plus side, RVN leaving forced Ronaldo to step it up, Ronaldo leaving (even though it’s next summer earliest) could bring the goalscoring best out of Rooney.
May 18th, 2008 at 4:12
Oh and one more thing. Can I make this blog cook on a boring day or what?
May 18th, 2008 at 4:36
Fred the Red, what did the lads at the Red Cafe say about the Ronnie Interview then?. Are they saying that Sky have misread the situation, that he isn’t only staying for another year after all?. Arghhhhhh - a lot of this inuendo is so misleading.
May 18th, 2008 at 5:07
craig, the red cafe link is on the right hand side of this page mate,up at the top
May 18th, 2008 at 6:16
Grognard: agreed about your culinary skills, that’s for sure. But chill. Saha is not a cancer, he’s a quality player with serious fitness problems that we overlooked when we signed him. Our fault, not his. When he’s been able he has put in his time with dedication and really can’t be criticised for his play or his off-pitch life, and he can’t control his injuries which, while admittedly a source of frustration, he can’t be blamed for. He’s never refused painkillers, he’s never been offered them because you cannot play through knee and hamstring injuries without incurring further damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBpKbQGyGh4 is a decent video of his contributions. I respect your right to your opinion, but it is a little unwarranted to call him malignant and go on and on that he should “play through the pain” despite no evidence that suggests that that was an option for him. But he’ll be gone in the summer and then it won’t matter. For now, I just hope he does well if he gets a chance to shine in the final.
On the Ronny situation, we’ve got three more years of him unless we seriously eclipse every other team in the CL, but whenever he goes we’re looking at at least 50million. He’ll be here next season, it’s just not worth it to sell him.
May 18th, 2008 at 6:46
[craig mc]
I understood your comment and I reiterate, I don’t have a problem if someone criticises a player (or villifies) because it is his opinion. I don’t have a problem if some one criticises a player or United for that matter, if he has a reason for it. I am personally not for villifying, but if someone thinks so he is entitled to it.
Yes, players are people and are entitled to decency and all that, but no player comes over and reads what we say. It does not matter one jot what we write about players here. As long as you justify your criticism with something and not just say Giggs is shit/Saha is crap for no rhyme or reason it’s all fair game here. That’s my comment policy here. Criticising players ok, criticising fellow commenters, not ok.
And I have said this a million times already, but if you still have your doubts, get in touch through email. Debating my comments policy over here is a waste of energy and takes us off the topic of discussion.
May 18th, 2008 at 6:58
Michael; Honestly I don’t wish Saha any ill or do I want him to go to Hades. I just want him as far away from United as possible. I’m sorry but I think he’s soft. I’ve played American football and thus cannot relate to his unwillingness to give it a go. On the other hand I feel baseball players (especially pitchers) remind of the chicken shit attitude he he showed while he was here. I will confess, that maybe I am wrong and perhaps I have been very unfair with him but he has frustrated me (a diehard United fan) so much that I have soured on the man big time. It’s the fact that I know he had the skill to really contribute but never had the guts to play hurt that bugs me. It wasn’t always his bad knee that caused him to miss games.
The rest is not targeted at you Michael. Once again I make the point that I have that right to be down on Saha and to put him down to my heart’s content. And as I scour the internet I see that I am not the only person who feels like that. but on this blog I seem to be made an example of by many frustrated control freaks who see it as their mission to control the kind of rants that will be allowed. Correct me if I’m wrong but only RR is in charge of that. At least I’m not some Ranger lunatic causing problems in the streets after Rangers lose and start beating up on people and destroying public and private property. Those are the people who need to be told off on this site, not me. Nobody talks about that disgrace on this blog. No they would rather pick on a fellow member and insult him for having an alternative view. I’m not obligated to be nice or fair to any of our players, yet at the same time I should not be a target for abuse on this blog because I am a fellow member who has treated all of you with respect in the past regardless of my personal opinion.
I would now like to drop this and move on to more interesting football topics. Forgive me if I feel I need the last word on this. Something tells me I won’t get it though. Christ you show your dislike for a player and World War 3 breaks out. And they call Bush crazy.
There have been comments on this blog in the last few days that have been very derogatory towards Ronaldo. He’s been called names and insults that are far worse than anything I have ever said about Balsa Boy Louis. Yet nothing is being said to these people that is as venomous and as hurtful as what I seem to be receiving in posts. And before some of you social misfits tell me I’m overreacting and oversensitive, consider the fact that it may be you who are overreacting and oversensitive over my rants (YES I SAID RANTS). This site is called RED RANTS, not PC RANTS or CENSORED RANTS or POSITIVE RANTS. Get off my back and take up another pastime instead of looking for a way to piss me off. Get a hobby, get laid, just stop blowing up at every fucking rant I make on this blog. Feel free to disagree but stop telling me what I can and cannot say. It’s incredibly infuriating and frustrating to a person that values freedom of speech.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:47
RR - you obviously didn’t understand my comments!. I have never had a problem with people criticising players, or heavily debating about their worth to the team etc.etc. That’s what this blog is all about, I love a good rant. Ranting is one thing though, but vilifying and abusing players are another. If you can’t see the difference - SHAME on you!. And your dead wrong about the players not knowing what is written about them on this blog and others like it!. A friend of mine knows Wes Brown thru his other half, and admits that they browse the web perusing this and other sites. Anyway, your entitled to your morals and I’m entitled to mine. Seeing as it is your site, I will depart whilst I still have my dignity intact.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:49
I’m sure any opinion on any issue are a reflection of the certain persons current mind set,
Grogg is generally just looking at Utds whole picture.I personally rate Saha as a footballer but any posts denying he doesn’t infuriate them I can’t understand. All this season we have needed him as that alternative forward line, In fact I believe Fergie has even used Tevez as his ’supersub’ just because of his lack of options. There wouldn’t be this continious ‘Utd should sign Berbatov etc’ if we had a fit Saha, Grogg must have some respect for Louis to even be irratated.
Ole’ situation was different his is still a god at old trafford, he could score a hatrick of OG’ against the scouse and he would STILL be forgiven. Saha has contributed but many fans just believe his promise is wasted.
I hope people can look back at Jesper Blompquist as a reference he had all the promise but the day he signed for Utd he became Darren Anderton, but due to Utd’s cover in the {99}season he was completly forgot almost.
In fact when Park was injured I almost felt I had to remind my mate how invaluable he is for Utd.
To some up>Saha is a great forward when fit who i dislike for all of 90 minuted on a saturday away to Blackburn. He is really are only oldskool forward, who because of the void of him being unfit we have been short of options in the forward line(Welbeck).
I almost hope for the good of Saha he can move on and rebuild his career. I’m sure Utd can only command around 4m for him now so maybe Keano can come in for him.
p.s I went to open the youtube link of saha(to remind me of his contribution), unfortunatly my link broke down-Saha through and through lol.
Ronaldo rumours are ‘rumours’ lets not villify him already. Im sure Madrids backstaff will run this repetative nonsense all summer long.
We will have 3odd months of savioring this years acheivements, and this (rant)page will be full of ‘fantasy’ football rumours no need to join-in Madrids.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:19
not to be rude grognard, but the way you speak about some of our players is disturbing, and you do often show disrespect to other commenters and their views. Im not saying i dont, because i do probably as much and maybe a bit more as you, but i admit to doing it. i dont know if you dont realise or your in denial but dude, just admit that sometimes you get a bit over the top. we all do from time to time.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:21
I hope this summer wont be boring!
May 18th, 2008 at 10:23
ronaldo has reassured us that he’s going nowhere in a classic ronaldo style. link
i love it, “im the best” how modest of him.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:41
Love ya Ronny! I knew he wouldnt leave until Fergie does! VIVA RONALDO!! You truely are the best!
May 18th, 2008 at 10:47
Craig; What Red Ranter is saying that unless Saha comes onto this website and takes offence to what Grognard is saying, then Red Ranter has no real reason to stop him from saying this things. It’s like Dan saying that Welbeck has world class potential, which is bollocks, but it’s an opinion and nothing can be done about it. There is only one way to possibly get Grognard from not talking about Saha in this way again; Grognard as you can see people take offence to what you have said. I would like to think that while you have every right to talk about whatever player you want in whatever way you want, I would like to think that you do appreciate the sentiments of the other posters here. So if it isn’t too hard, could you tone down your opinion of Saha just while you are here? I know you like to be controversial but it is tiresome.
Moving on, Grognard; I would just like to bring up four things.
1. You called us a bunch of pseudo fascists yet you know that if we resorted to name calling you would be on a rant now about moral rights and respect etc. Gain some perspective.
2. “And then you go after Red Ranter and tell him how he should run his bloody blog. God some of you have nerve.” The amount of times you have taken it upon yourself to step up in RR’s place makes this comment hugely hypocritical.
3. You never answered my question about why you feel the need to talk down on a player in this way, when you know that it is going to cause controversy no matter what. The same thing happened the last time you talked about Saha, the same thing happened when Nani got his red card. You are trying to tell me that you didn’t expect this to happen? I thought I brought up a number of good points too and I was looking for a debate, but you just ignored my comment on the whole.
4. Hope you had a nice dinner.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:00
when the hell did i say welbeck has world class potential, bojan, messi, rooney and anderson have world class potential, i said welbeck has potential to be one of the best in the world. do not mention my name, just for the sake of it, because thats exactly what you just did. Crouch is 1 of the best target men in the world but i wouldn’t say he’s world class. please do not do that again.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:08
United travel through Manchester with the Champions League and Premier League trophy!
Silvestre to Bordoux for £4.5 million!
Tevez ends his loan and becomes a real United player!
Ole Gunnar Solskjær scores a hat trick against Espanyol on his testimonial!
Saha to Lyon for £5 millilon!
Benzema to United for £15 million plus Balsa Boy!
Richards to United, free transfer cause he got kicked out by Sinatra!
Eagles to Middlesbrough for £2 million!
Ronaldo signs new contract!
Real Madrid give up and instead of them getting Ronaldo, we get Marcelo!
Welbeck gets his debut against Pompey in the Charity Shield and scores 4 goals!
Liverpool gets gaught for match-fixing and are relegated to the Championship with -18 points!
Torres, Gerrard and Carragher move to Real Madrid and they shut up and say that they dont need Ronaldo!
Wenger is arrested for raping Fabregas!
Drogba gets in a fight with the Chelsea boss and says that Chelsea is nothing without him! He moves and they replace him with Voronin! BTW, They begin the season with -9 points because they play such ugly football!
Wouldnt that be a perfect summer?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:13
love that summer RD
May 18th, 2008 at 11:14
Conor, I know where your coming from mate - thank you!. I wasn’t just referring to Grog though in what I have been trying to get across, and obviously not doing a very good job of it lol!. Since I heard thru friends, that the players do browse United blogs/websites, I thought how I would feel if I was a player, and was reading the most vilifying or abusive arguement about myself. I know it’s not just Grog, and I have to watch what I post, and the way I express myself, because I often fall short myself!. I understood from some peeps on this blog, when I first joined, that Red Rants was a kind of fraternity, and Grog and JB were amongst those who helped convince me of this. So I thought, that although we are all entitled to free speech on the web, as RR said, surely as a fraternity we could seek to be less offensive in our expression sometime. Maybe I’m too much of a dreamer Conor lol!.
With regards to Saha, my Aunt is in the medical field for a long time, and she said players that play through injury, and against the pain that is the bodies way of telling them that they need to take heed, THEN LATER IN LIFE, after football, they will be crippled for a long time. So who wants to finish up at 35 yrs onwards crippled or handicapped for the rest of their lives. I am talking about those with recurring, long standing injuries, not all footballers. Louis has been saying how frustrated he has been, and totally gutted to having a continual series of manifold injuries. I thin he said last season, that he was so down about it, that Fergie was continually having to help him to ward of the depression. So it is not like he just draws his wage packet and doesn’t care.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:19
Dan; it was an example, I never quoted you or anything. Fine I’ll use a different example, I believe that Dong will become the WPOTY in 3 years.
Craig; I know, but really Grognard is the only one who would go as far to say this. I’m sure he wouldn’t take too kindly to it if RR decided that it wasn’t suitable to be put in here and Grognard felt he had done nothing wrong except “rant”. But you make a good point that I’m sure some of the more local lads could very well occasionally read websites.
RedDevil, Marcelo?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:28
thank you conor, interesting example, but thank you.
i think marcelo was the dude we where linked with and spurs made a bid for him. that said, its been reported that spurs has made a bid for dean ashton. shocker.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:29
Sarcasm, Dan?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:33
no, that thank you was sincere.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:46
Hey everybody,
Here’s my opinion on all this…. I used to be a HUGE fan of saha, while all my friends were saying that he isnt worth s#&*t because of all his injuries and i used to defend him all the time. BUT what happened this season ended all love i have for this guy, its just too much… there are no words for my frustration with this guy… we cant wait anymore to see if he can stay fit, he should go ASAP…
Now regarding Grognard’s comments, i have no problem with what the language he uses, as i said in a previous post regarding his views on Nani.. I disagreed with him on nani but agree with him on Saha.. why do u guys care so much on the language he uses?? U are free to agree or disagree but let every commentator here say what he likes about the players, EXCEPT of coarse if someone is insulting a player’s RACE, RELIGION, OR NATIONALITY…
May 18th, 2008 at 11:52
United players aren’t some god like men above us, they are human beings and have a right not to be disrespected like that. it’s wrong to talk about our players let alone a human like that.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:02
Conor- Marcelo, left back for Real Madrid. Young, 18 years. Been a regular there when Heinze moved to CB. He is completely like Evra, and had it not been for that he played for Real I wouldnt be surprised if United bought him this summer. Great LB!
Always buy him to United in FIFA 08 manager mode as a replacement to Evra.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:13
RedDevil; I know who he is, but why do we need him exactly? Evra is one of the best left backs in Europe, and he still has another good fouryears to mature. By then, Fabio(the more promising one) should be mature enough to fight for a first team place. We don’t want to become like Real or Chelsea buying players for the sake of it.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:13
B: The objection people have is when the criticism of a player becomes personal. You will be doing well to find anyone on here who isn’t frustrated with Saha and I would wager almost everyone wants to see him replaced in the summer. That said on what basis do we have to make personal insults, we don’t really know what his medical situation is, so how can we confidently call him a coward or a pussy for example? All we can accurately do is judge him on his on the field performances. Of course if someone wants to make personal attacks on our players then that is their right. However they should expect to get some backlash from it.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:14
HA-HA! Vidic just called Drogba a diver!
May 18th, 2008 at 12:22
Re: Saha
Lionel Messi is extremely injury prone, but I don’t hear many Barca fans vilifying him and calling for him to be sold. Rosicky and van Persie have been near-permanent crocks in the last two seasons but Arsenal fans recognise what quality players they are and stand by them regardless. Which is why I find the apathy against Saha shameful. I agree with everyone who backs him and I personally think he should stay on, but only as a fifth choice striker until he can somehow break free of his injury hell and work his way back to first choice. The man is only 29 for FFS! He’s in his prime and still has his best years ahead of him!
The fact is that he is an excellent footballer, he gives us options and adds an extra dimension blah blah blah I won’t repeat what everyone says about him, but without his goal against Sunderland at Old Trafford which practically kickstarted our season, we would not be Premier League champions, so I think he contributed well considering his circumstance.
PS. Can somebody please tell Carrick to shut his big mouth and just do his talking on the pitch? Preferably next Wednesday. The amount of times the man shoots his mouth off to the media about some next rubbish is beyond belief!
May 18th, 2008 at 12:30
Also, (off-topic I know) does anybody know where I can get those gold Premier League patches the United players wear on their sleeves? (I want the ‘07/08 Champion’ ones, not the 06/07 ones.)
May 18th, 2008 at 12:35
Nino; Sorry can’t say I do. Continuing with going off-topic, puedes decirme unas muletillas para mis examenes. Por ejemplo : pues, es decir, bueno, la verdad es que etc.? Comprendes? O unas palabras útiles para conversaciones normales?
May 18th, 2008 at 12:36
United run a business; a football business, not a charity. Saha is no longer value for money. He needs to be moved on, with all our best wishes. It’s not a question of whether one likes Saha or not (I like him). But like your car which keeps playing up and keeps getting repaired, and keeps playing up - the time comes when you know its right to trade in the loveable old banger and get a better, more reliable model. That time has come with Saha.
As to whether Saha makes the bench in the Champions League final, well I’m not so sure. SAF may start with Park instead of Tevez for tactical reasons. If so, this is likely to be United’s starting line up: VDS, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra; Park, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves; Rooney and Ronaldo.
As you can only have 7 on the bench, this would be my bench: Kuszscak, O’Shea, Fletcher, Anderson, Nani, Giggs and Tevez (so Saha, Silvestre and Pique would miss out).
Who from the 7 named above would you leave out to make room for Saha on the subs bench? Saha has no goal-keeping skills that we know about, so we can agree that Kuszscak is safe; O’Shea is needed as defensive cover; Fletcher and Anderson for different options in the midfield, where this game will be won and lost; Giggs and Nani give options out wide, one to help close down the game if you’re winning, the other to get back in the game if you’re losing; and Tevez is needed on the pitch after about 55 minutes whatever the state of the game.
Should one of those guys, who’ve never let United down, not be put on the bench in order to accommodate Saha? Could you rely on Saha if he came on? Could you take the risk of another injury to Saha when he is your third and last substitute? I wouldn’t. Each of the 7 players on my subs bench deserve to play ahead of Saha, and IMO would do a better job for the team once on the pitch. O’Shea and Fletcher in particular have sweated blood for United over the years, their loyalty and endeavour for the cause should be rewarded with at least a place on bench. Both will there next season; Saha won’t. It’s a no brainer.
SAF should use the evidence of a season and make the right judgment call. IMO there should be no place for Saha, except in a suit in the stands with the rest of the United entourage.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:46
Frankie: You included Anderson and Fletcher on the basis that they offer different options, ditto for Giggs and Nani. Well Saha offers an option that is different from anyone else in the squad. If we are trailing with 1o minutes to go and need to start slinging the ball long into the box then he is a far more valuale options than the likes of Fletch.
You say that United are not a charity and that is completely true. We are in the business of winning trophies and we pick the team to give us the best chance of doing that. As a result places should not be handed out in some misguided attempt to reward loyalty and commitment.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:47
Hahaha JB, you have this absolute knack of saying in a nutshell what I have been meaning in my posts!. Pinpointing what many have been saying, that it is personal attacks on players that bring reactions. It’s hard though isn’t it, because it’s a fine line between saying what we honestly see, and being able to express it in as less offensive a way possible. Most want to be honest, but as Grog and I have debated in the past, it is the spirit that a thing is said in that matters. I try to reel in my emotions when something said IRKS me, but I admit, I am not always succesful. Shouldn’t this debate be put to bed though now, because it seems to be all talked out.
Red Devil, that summer list you talked about - v. good humour mate.
May 18th, 2008 at 13:01
JB: Yep agree with you, Saha offers a totally and completely different option to somebody like Fletcher. He can offer an aerial threat which Fletch cannot.
Frankie: Leading on from what JB said; to be honest, what can Fletcher offer that Anderson cannot? Both of them hustle and harry and tackle hard, both step up in big games and both don’t really offer much attacking/goals wise. But I would pick Anderson purely because he is a more dynamic and explosive player than Fletcher. But on the other hand, like you said, it would be unfair to drop Fletch in favour of Saha purely because of their respective contributions this season.
However, I trust the gaffer to make the right judgement on this one. At the end of the day, only he knows whats best for United, better than anyone on here I might add.
May 18th, 2008 at 13:10
Nino; I wouldn’t be so sure. I’ll be putting in my application for the job once SAF leaves and I’ll prove that I am indeed even better than he is, once I win consecutive trebles.
May 18th, 2008 at 13:17
OK Conor. Post your CV up so we can all see what you’ve achieved/won so far in your career
May 18th, 2008 at 13:18
Hey, is it next season the Premiership starts to have 7 subs on the bench?
May 18th, 2008 at 13:23
Red Devil: Yep thats right. To bring us in line with the rest of Europe. I wonder how long it will be before they decide to cut the Prem down to 18 teams too?
May 18th, 2008 at 14:07
nino, an 18 team premier league would be great and would shut that blatters mouth up because half the league qualify for Europe, wouldnt it be great if a team promoted from the championship have a great season, finish in the top half and qualify for Europe
May 18th, 2008 at 14:24
it looke like pique is going to barca. link.
To be honest, it’s our fault, we didnt give him enough game time, he needs/wants first team football and so he is going to the club that he supported all his life and the club that made him. Its a big club and he’ll go straight into the starting 11, if i where pique, it would take a lot of convincing to let me stay.
May 18th, 2008 at 14:25
it looke like pique is going to barca. link.
To be honest, it’s our fault, we didnt give him enough game time, he needs/wants first team football and so he is going to the club that he supported all his life and the club that made him. Its a big club and he’ll go straight into the starting 11, if i where pique, it would take a lot of convincing to let me stay.
May 18th, 2008 at 16:26
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May 18th, 2008 at 16:41
JB:
And what if United are winning with 10 minutes to go, Anderson is already on the pitch and Scholes is knackered? Would you want to sling Saha on, rather than Fletcher? I don’t think so. Fletcher could also be pressed into service as an auxiliary full back in the event of an injury late on to one of the defenders (if O’Shea is already on the pitch). He’s a useful, multi-task player, who seems to be persistently under-estimated by a section of United support.
And incidentally when is the last time Saha came on with 10 minutes to go and did anything to affect a game (in United’s favour)? He’s been very disappointing as a late sub. So stop dreaming. Saha will not phoenix-like rise from the Bench and win it for United in injury time by long balls being pumped forward.
Chelsea are powerful and enegetic in midfield. That will be the most competitive area of the pitch. United will need reinforcements in central midfield, quite possibly more than one. Especially, if the game goes into extra time.
United have done well enough this season without Saha figuring for them for most of it. They can also beat Chelsea without him. If Fletcher comes on, the likes of Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo can play higher up the pitch. Which of Rooney or Ronaldo would you take off for Saha, bearing in mind that you may also have the option of Tevez from the bench?
I think SAF’s decision about Saha/Fletcher will turn on whether he decides to start with Tevez or Park. If he starts with Tevez, he’ll want to have the option of at least one forward on the bench. If he starts with Park, with the option of bringing on Tevez after about 60 minutes, the need to name Saha as well, diminishes.
Over to SAF.
May 18th, 2008 at 16:52
Comment number 100, Yippi!
May 18th, 2008 at 17:06
All these Drogba comments are worying me. Ferguson must be telling Rooney and Vidic to say it, but it didn’t work out very well for Liverpool, did it? I reckon it’s the sort of thing that if we keep him out for the first half it’ll be playing on his mind and take him out of the game a bit, but if he’s doing well he’ll just have even more motivation. I still think the team sounds a little too confident though.
May 18th, 2008 at 17:27
Conor; I understand what you are saying friend but please understand where I am coming from. First off, I am Canadian. This is not an excuse this is a fact stating that I may look at athletes and sports in a slightly different manner than people do in the UK and rest of Europe. For example, North Americans laugh at footy for their so called “FAIR PLAY” rules and for their yellow and red cards. North American sports believe in fair play but they do not punish intensity or the odd dirty play in such a severe manner. A hockey player slashes or cross checks an opponent, he gets two minutes in the penalty box. He does it again and he gets another two minutes. In football he may miss one or three game depending whether or not it is a straight red card. The same goes for injuries. Players in hockey, US football for example are expected to play through some discomfort or pain. The term “suck it up for the team” comes to mind. Nobody expects a player to play with a serious injury like a knee and yet there are players who play with torn ligaments or cartilage all the time and then they get their surgery at season’s end. And then there are some who cannot go at all and they are shut down. Football (soccer) is a sport where the men seem to not handle pain well and cannot play with much pain anymore. I remember old school games where players like Beckenbauer played with a separated shoulder and others who played through concussions, severe cuts, broken noses, sprains, muscle pulls and even slight hairline fractures. A famous hockey player Steve Yzerman once played the whole playoff season with a hairline fracture of his foot. ETC ETC.
My frustration with Saha reached the zenith when he had come back from a long spell in bed and hurt himself in warmup just before a big match where he was needed. Right then and there I saw the player as a terrible burden to the team and a hopeless jinx. Was I wrong? Perhaps in the eyes of many of you I was but like I have tried with great frustration before, I was expressing my free speech and “RANTING” on my favorite blog. Then Conor writes a post telling me to think of the feelings of others and to watch what I say for fear of offending the mob. Conor can you hear yourself and are you serious mate? This is a rant blog where fans should be able to rant to their hearts content, is it not? Red Ranter has said so many times. So it is not I who doesn’t get it. My point is that if somebody doesn’t agree with my viewpoint fine, say so and move on or make an argument for Saha. Don’t act like I just broke into your house and violated your daughter for crying out loud. Just move on and ignore my rant if it’s not up to your moral standards. Me thinks you protest to strongly. Too many of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill by spewing your venom at me. AGP said it well when he wrote “Grogg must have some respect for Louis to even be irratated.” Very true. Saha is a highly skilled player and a player we could have used on many occasions this year. I am of the strong belief that many times we played 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 because Fergie didn’t want to risk using both his available strikers at once. Two weeks ago we had to go with Tevez alone because of Rooney’s injury. Where was Saha then when we needed him? Yet he shows up a week later when Rooney is fit to play. I seriously doubt that Saha couldn’t find the strength and courage to speed his return by a week after such a long lay off.
And Conor; I am not be a hypocrite at all regarding Red Ranter. When I have tried to “police” this site it has been after no response to a bad post came from RR. Figuring he was away from his PC I felt it important to stop something before it escalated. I was wrong and RR himself told me and put me in my place. And I respect him for doing so. But it is not the same thing. Some on this site are telling RR what the rules should be regarding the nature and theme that member entries should be. I may have taken the law in to my hands when the law was away from the station but some feel like a coup is necessary and they will tell RR what to do with his own blog? Not the same thing at all. Where I was mistakenly trying to help, some were ordering RR to change his policies and rules.
And to answer your final question Conor, I wrote what I wrote because I felt the need to rant to other fans about my frustration and growing dislike for Saha. Was that wrong? NO it wasn’t. I was ranting. This is a rant site. What’s the point of contributing anything if you are going to worry what kind of backlash you get for your comment? Sure I knew I would stir up a hornets nest but it was not for that reason that I did so. I just needed to rant and express my opinion. I don’t mind nor care if others disagree with me. In fact let them put forth their case and defend it like I did mine. I may not agree but unlike many who went against me, I’ll respect their views.
Dan; The only time I show disrespect to other viewers is when they get nasty with me. Disagreeing or telling someone you think they are wrong is not rude and insulting. Calling him names and claiming he is stupid or an asshole is. There is a big difference. Where I might go over the line is if somebody says something that I feel is racist. Then I personally feel justified to be nasty.
May 18th, 2008 at 17:28
What are you guys favorite United songs?
Mine is the Wayne Rooney one.
Wayne Rooney, Wayne Rooney,
He goes by the name of Wayne Rooney,
I saw my mate the other day,
He said to me, He saw the white Pele,
So I asked, who is he?
He goes by the name of Wayne Rooney.
All time, would have to be United Road though.
May 18th, 2008 at 17:40
Craig; Honestly mate, do you really believe a player gives a rats ass about what a few insignificant bloggers have to say? Not only don’t they care but 99% don’t even bother to browse the blogs. If I was making millions the last thing I would do is waste time on a blog commenting on what I do. I should think the tabloids was enough abuse or love for a day. Gets some perspective already. It’s really hilarious to read that kind of stuff from you. Why don’t you apply as a personal body guard to these guys if you think they need your protection from the stabbing and cruel jibes people like myself throw upon them? Trust me, they don’t need nor to they give a damn about your protectionist support. They are big boys who are overpaid by societies standards and they should be willing to take the abuse that is thrown upon them, especially when it is deserved, and even when it isn’t. They have a thick skin and perhaps you should to. If I was sharing my views on Sahah or Nani with you over a beer, I doubt you would feel so protective or defensive towards my views. It’s the context of a blog that makes you lose the true perspective of what is going on here. Just chatter upon like minded friends. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. So what harm did I really do? Did I make racist or sexual remarks? NO. I just showed clear frustration over one player’s inability to be relied upon and another’s sheer selfishness and stupidity to be red carded at a time when he was needed.
It was my right as paying fan to say these things. And yes I am a paying fan. I have to pay for the pay channel that shows their games and the licensed material I wear or use with the player’s names or United’s logo on them. How dare anyone try to censor me from my god given right. Shame on those who tried.
May 18th, 2008 at 17:48
Come on you guys, stop with all this hate, please.
I totally agree with all of you (yes all of you) I agree with you who say Saha has contributed to this club enough to be respected and I also agree with who say that hes a piece of crap player (when it comes to injury).
The fact that this is a rant site gives Grognard all the right to express whatever he feels in whatever way he sees fit, Im sure many of you guys said the same words more or less on other players but none of you got all the hate mail Grognard did.
What does bother me is I actually dont hear fans of other clubs talk shit about their players the way we do, thats something I failed to understand can someone help me here please?
May 18th, 2008 at 17:48
Grognard , you are the one that your dad is a former Panathinaikos player? You said some time you re Greek. So, where are you from?
Anyway, I totally understand you. You have a different view in many things but you re never an execrative. It’s better for you not to disagree with people who cannot pass by your comments…Mybe they re doing it on purpose so as to laugh with your probity to your own ideals.
Please , EVERYONE , respect your interlocutor.
We all love Mancheter but still we are not brothers. Everyone has a dofferent opinion so respect it.
YOU ASHOLES ! LOL
May 18th, 2008 at 18:21
Dan, regarding this comment u made - ‘when the hell did i say welbeck has world class potential, bojan, messi, rooney and anderson have world class potential, i said welbeck has potential to be one of the best in the world’
Surely if Welbeck has the potential to be one of the best in the world then he would then be potentialy world class would he not? Does that make sense?!
RedDevil you also said ‘Love ya Ronny! I knew he wouldnt leave until Fergie does! VIVA RONALDO!! You truely are the best!’
If Fergie retires this summer then he is off aswell then! I know he wont retire but just think when we lose the greatest manager in the game we also lose the best player in the world - double whammy.
Regarding all this stuff which has been made of Grognard, everyone is entitled to their opinion and its the same for him. I enjoy reading what he has to say and although I dont always agree with it(especially what he has said about Saha) he brings alot of passion to the blog and to be fair it would be boring if everyone was straight down the line and had the same opinions!
Now the talk has started about the champions league final i’d like to give my XI plus subs -
GK: Van Der Sar
RB: Brown
LB: Evra
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Vidic
DMC: Carrick
MC: Hargreaves
MC: Scholes
RF: Ronaldo
LF: Tevez
FW: Rooney
Subs-
Kusziak
O’Shea
Fletcher
Anderson
Giggs
Park/Nani
Saha
May 18th, 2008 at 18:32
nikos, i thought grognard was from Canada?
May 18th, 2008 at 18:39
comment deleted by me.
May 18th, 2008 at 18:42
Love him or loathe him, you have to admire the Grogmiesters honesty, I just hope he never gets a job working for the Samaritans.
Grognard, carry on ranting
May 18th, 2008 at 18:44
Frankie: Hargreaves can play RB and O’Shea can play across the back line so it would take two injuries from the back four before Fletcher was pressed into service. I would rather load my bench down with options to win a game rather than players to shore up a lead. Cast your mind back to a certain game in 1999, we were more than grateful that we had two strikers to commit from the bench that day.
As for Saha not coming off the bench and changing a game recently, true. But he wasn’t available for that bad spell of results we had in the last couple of months. However at the start of the season he came on and changed a number of games, including the home fixture against Chelsea.
I am not saying the player dropped has to be Fletcher but Saha provides an option no one else does and for me that gives him a spot. We may have done well enough without him but if had been fit and firing all season I doubt we would have had to win on the last day of season to make sure of the league. Regardless of his brittle nature his presence has been missed.
May 18th, 2008 at 18:53
im just wondering, if we win the champions league, we are automatically in the champions league next season right, so does that mean, that the premier league gets an extra CL place for next season? because we already had a champions league place for next season so does it go to the highest place team(everton)?
May 18th, 2008 at 18:54
in case some of our foreign bloggers dont know who the Samaritans are, they are an organisation set up so that people who have problems in their life can call and have a freindly and positive chat, can you imagine a distraught Louis Saha picking up the phone to talk about his injury problems only to find Groggy on the other end of the line.
Just kidding Groggy
May 18th, 2008 at 19:01
Dan: No, under the new rules in the case of the winners not qualifying through the league the fourth place team will have their CL taken away. This is to ensure no country has more than four CL spots. As a result there is no extra slot per se for winning the CL.
May 18th, 2008 at 20:43
Grognard; you did not answer my final, and most important, question. How was your meal?
May 18th, 2008 at 21:09
Grognard whatever you say mate, and whatever RR says OK?. I can’t be arsed anymore to get into it. I am so sick of lengthy diatribes to support your arguements!. We will never agree, so lets feckin leave it at that!. I do believe players appreciate positive criticism and encouragement, rather than negative commenting all the time. I KNOW THEY BROWSE THIS SITE, AND I HAVE EXPLAINED WHY?. Our mindset is different, and I will leave it at that!. You just keep on with the rants to your hearts content Grog, as peeps on here have encouraged. I will never apologise for not wanting to willingly offend, but as RR says, you have the right to say whatever you want, however you want - that’s life!.
May 18th, 2008 at 21:13
ah right, thanks JB, that would of been great though, can you imagine the look on sepp blaters face when he found out that half the premier league would be playing in europe next season if we where given an extra champions league place. classic.
May 18th, 2008 at 21:15
If Saha really is match fit, and is not going to limp off after a few minutes, he should be on the bench, end of story.
Since the chances of that are nil, then he’ll be left out, because you do not want unfit players on the bench in a crucial match which could well go to extra time.
With that in mind I think we should hold Tevez back as an impact sub and play a 4-3-3 with Park/Nani and Ronaldo either side of Rooney and a midfield of Carrick, Scholes and Hargreaves (although I have a suspicion Ferguson will play Fletcher because he seems to rise to the occasion in big games). The defence picks itself.
Depending on how the game goes we can bring Tevez on and switch to 4-4-2 if we go behind.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:03
Grognard is a legend here on Red Rants, so I say we should let him express his feelings and opinions about United just as anyone else. That is what this blog is about, talking about United. Weather it is good stuff or bad stuff!
Ryan- Yeah, I have always said that Ronaldo would stay at United at least as long Fergie is here. He is maybe the most important person in Ronaldos life and that is why I think he will stay for a long time. Probably 3-4 years, hopefully longer!
May 18th, 2008 at 22:08
Just a European update that is totally unrelated to this article.
Inter Milan champions of Italy.
Lyon champions of France.
Real “Scumbags” Madrid champions of Spain.
Italian teams to Champions League: Inter, Roma, Juventus, Fiorentina(HA-HA, no Milan!).
Spanish teams to Champions League: Real, Villareal, Barca, Atletico Madrid(a team I hope United meet next season.).
Well, thats all! Good night.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:09
Red devil - Legend my arse!!!!
May 18th, 2008 at 22:18
Infamous might have been a better choice of words
May 18th, 2008 at 22:21
NIKOS; I am of Greek parentage. My father was from Athens and my mother from the island of Crete. I was born in Canada but have my Greek heritage close to my heart, although I sometimes I confuse people because of my love of everything German. I appreciate your words and they are very true. We are all different and we have different views, I do not intentionally create something in order to get people upset or riled up. I just express my thoughts and lets face it, I have the guts to speak my mind and to say a lot of things others think, but never have the balls to admit in public. This is good and bad and it gets me in trouble on this site.
Conor; I had barbecue beef ribs and they were a little dry and overcooked.
Thanks to all of you out there that support my right to rant. Trust me it is very deeply appreciated. Ryan said it well when he claimed that the blog would be very boring if everyone had the same thing to say and agreed all the time. Sometimes a little fire and brimstone makes things a little bit more interesting.
RedDevil; Referring to me as a legend may go to my head
Craig; Fair enough mate. We clearly don’t agree and that’s OK. I respect your feelings on the topic even if I think they are over the top a bit. You must feel the same way about my comments. Don’t lose heart. I certainly respect your contributions to the blog and hope you continue disagreeing with to your heart’s contentment.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:21
JB - your a feckin British Legend!.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:26
JB - your a feckin British Legend!. But then, are you Irish, or Northern Ireland lol?.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:35
OK GROG, FAIR ENOUGH!. As long as we understand each other. We agree to torment the feck out of each other, with our different mindsets lol!.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:35
Craig: I do my best
For the record I am Northern Irish for my sins!
May 18th, 2008 at 22:43
O right JB, feckin love the Irish, north or south!.
May 18th, 2008 at 22:51
Craig; I am a legend. In my own mind.
Let me know when you start that Grognard Fan Appreciation Blog. 
May 18th, 2008 at 22:58
Grog - you foolish Feck, that will never be in my mind. Grog appreciation society LOL, I am into Man Utd appreciations soceitey. I don;t think I need to apologise about that. But you have your little cheerleaders on this blog, so whoopee eh?.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:27
craig mc: Count me in as one of the Grog’s ‘cheerleaders’ then. Yes he may have an abrasive way of getting his points across sometimes, and its not unusual for a lot of people, myself included, to disagree with his opinions (and sometimes his choice of language) from time to time, but you got to hand it to the guy: his honesty and integrity is admirable. I have always enjoyed reading his posts as they are usually very insightful and offer an refreshing and alternate viewpoint from most fellow (I assume) British-based United fans who post here. The passion he channels into his rants is tremendous and is straight from the heart, and that alone is one of the major attractions of this blog if I may say so. It would be a sad day if he left.
So Grognard: Don’t listen to what anyone says mate, keep on ranting to your heart’s content! After all thats why ‘RedRants’ is called that. Freedom of speech is a fantastic God-given right to have, and you exercise it beautifully.
May 18th, 2008 at 23:53
Nikos, cheerlead whom you feckin like mate!. I have no objection, and neither will any of the Britsh fans you quote I suspect. Honesty and integrity from Grog, well if you say so mate - who cares to argue the point - I don’t!. I am a Salford red and feckin proud of it!. Salford, Mcr and Trafford reds who live within spitting distance of the ground are a law unto ourselves. Altho the Irish and Scots Man U fans are feckin legends too, if you want to talk about legends. We are of the history of Man United, AND fed Man United or City since our youth. If you want to support Grog, I have no problems with that!. But I am on here to support every Man United player, although I appreciate honest comment on each ande every one of them. I am not interested on exalting any fan on a blog, but I defend your right to do so Nikos.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:14
Nino; Calling yourself Grognard’s cheerleader? That is like insulting yourself!
JB; we live in the same country, never new that. Belfast?
May 19th, 2008 at 0:27
Conor and JB, Im from Belfast too, get a few more of us on here and we will own this site.
Just kidding Red Ranter
May 19th, 2008 at 0:31
Conor, are you Irish, Belfast eh?. Well feck me, I never knew you were from the Emerald Isle - magic!.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:35
Conor: I was quoting craig mc, not intentionally calling myself a cheerleader (though now you mention cheerleaders, sexy images of Hayden Panettiere in a mini skirt are suddenly springing to mind
hehe)
craig mc: I think you’re mixing me up with that Greek dude Nikos who also posts here. I’m a totally different person mate
, unless you actually were referring to that guy… Also, what are you saying? That only people born in Salford are true Reds and the rest are worthless tossers? And what makes Irish and Scottish United fans so special? I didn’t know you had to be from a certain place or be a certain nationality to be a true United fan or care about the club…
May 19th, 2008 at 0:38
Fred the Red - never - hahahahaha!. Your Irish too?. Well, I am of Irish ancestry, so guess I am one with you. The Irish contingent on this blog is mighty lol!.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:40
Craig; It was NINO who sang my praises not NIKOS. Get that straight mate before somebody gets upset with you. And i think you are harsh if you think that my comments are honest with integrity. They are. Just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t make them dishonest. And for God’s sake the legend claim was a joke. “A legend in MY own mind” as opposed to the term “a legend in his own time”. Get it? It’s actually me making fun of myself. It means that I do have a sense of humor and that I can be a good sport about things.
It’s funny how as soon as somebody out their appreciates my contributions and sings my praises and makes a humorous comment like I’m a legend, and some jump down his and my throat. So NEWSFLASH! I’m not a feckin legend OK? Honest!
Conor; Why is somebody claiming to appreciate my contribution an insult to himself? Did you ever think that was not insulting Nino but insulting me?
Honestly, what have I done that gives you the right to hurt my feelings by alluding that people who respect my posts are idiots? I think you are making things very personal.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:42
Nice, lot of Irish eh? I have a fascination for the Irish too. I typically get images of drunk men when I picture the Irish, however the commenters over here have forever changed my perception of the Irish. Most of you lot on here seem very intelligent and sober.
And no one’s a legend on here, including me. So don’t waste your time cheerleading each other.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:45
craig mc, Ive noticed a lot of wisdom in your posts, must be the Irish ancestry shining through
May 19th, 2008 at 0:47
Way to go NINO! I was thinking the very same thing. Borders on territorial racism to me. Like Scotland and Ireland have sole ownership of Manchester United and we frakken losers from the rest of the planet have no say nor any right to comment unless it is to agree with the Irish contingent and kiss ass in the process. What a load of total shite. I have no problem with the Irish contingent on this blog other than their attempt to rule the roost and claim ownership of this blog’s mindset and rules. What is a poor Canadian scum like me to do?
May 19th, 2008 at 0:54
[Grognard]
The Irish thing was just light hearted banter here.
May 19th, 2008 at 0:54
Nino. forgive me mate, if I mixed you up with Nikos. Apologies to you to Nikos lol!. Nino for feck sake mate, I never call anybody worthless tossers!. What I was saying is that Salford, Mcr and Trafford reds are a special breed, together with the Irish and Scots United fans!. Certainly those who are born within spitting distance of the ground are locals, and yes Nino, we do consider ourselves to be fundamental to the history of United. As I said, we were breastfed United from the womb. Surely as a devoted fan of Grog, and his freedom of speech, I have the same rights to cheer the local British support of locals, United born aND BRED, and the Irish and Scots who are likewise phenominal. After all Nino, it is just my HONEST OPINION, and as valid as others who you so avidly support. So please don’t try and drum up something that does not exist in anybody’s mind but yours - Ok?.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:03
Grognard, it doesnt matter where you come from, we are all equals on this site, its just that the English, Irish and Scottish bloggers are more equal than the rest
May 19th, 2008 at 1:05
Craig: Yes it is your honest opinion, and I just happen to disagree with your honest opinion. No you did not call anybody ‘worthless tossers’ but from what you wrote, that was along the lines of what I assumed you were implying. Apologies if thats not the case. Red Ranter put it well: you are privileged to live so close to such a fantastic institution as Manchester United but you don’t need to rub it in the faces of us people who are not so lucky.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:07
JB:
It wouldn’t necessary take two injuries for Fletcher to come on. It depends on your starting line-up. My starting line-up would have Hargreaves in central midfield, with Scholes and Carrick. Chelsea must be confronted with a strong midfield. At some point (probably after 60 mins.) Anderson will replace Scholes.
But supposing Hargreaves is injured early in the game, and you bring Anderson on, what happens later on when Scholes is flagging and a fresh Obi Mikel has replaced Makelele? To be without a central midfielder to match up against Chelsea late on in the game could be fatal. These are the sort of permutations, SAF has to try and factor into his choice of bench.
I agree that a fit and confident Saha would have helped United enormously in the title run-in; and I would find a place in the team for a fit and firing Saha. But he has given no indication that the current model Saha is anything like the striker we’ve known. You mention Solsksjaer and Sheringham coming off the bench in 1999. But in 1999, Solsksjaer and Sheringham had been banging them in all season, whether they started or came off the subs bench, and they were in very confident mood(Sheringham had come off the bench to win the FA cup final a few days earlier, and Ole was, well, Ole). You can’t put the current down-beat and fragile Saha model in the same category.
You say that you would not necessarily leave Fletcher out.. But if you’re not going to do that, who are you going leave out to accommodate Saha on the bench? You need O’Shea as cover right across the back four. So if you keep Fletcher on the bench of the 4 other outfield players, which of Anderson, or Nani, or Giggs, or Park/Tevez (depending on which of those two you start with) would you leave out instead of Fletcher? One of that lot would have to go if you would make room for both Saha and Fletcher on the bench. So, JB, who will it be? As SAF has said, hard choices need to be made.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:08
[Fred the Red]
You’re wrong mate, in this site all are equal. And only I (and Ahmed) are more equal than the rest.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:12
RR - for feck sake boss - where did I put anyone outside of my local area down?. If that is the way you want to interpret what I said OK, but it’s still your interpretation. Do I not have the right to love the local, Irish and Scots fans, they are feckin grat people and fun to be with at Old Trafford. I am not seeking to insult anybody outside these groups, but hey you just read into it what you want as usual!. Who doesn’t feel a oneness with their own local community?. And I am of Irish and Scots ancestry, so of course I am going to love those folks!. My dad is of Scottish roots, and my grandmother Irish origin. I cannot help but love my origin!. RR do you not love your roots?. Does Grog and Nino etc not love their’s?. Grog you need to stop calling people racists all the time because they love their own ancestral people!. I don’t go on to you, for loving the Greeks, Canadians and Germans!. I understand why you would. And RR I am not going to apologise or answer to you for who I am and where I come from - SORRY BOSS!.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:15
just a wee joke from the book animal farm Red Ranter, cant remember who wrote it, think it was George Orwell, a man of your intellect would know that
May 19th, 2008 at 1:18
[craig mc]
You are right mate. No offence taken. I responded to the impression your post caused to me. And I did read between the lines. So apologies. I take back my comment.
It’s been a tough day with too much mudslinging on the comment section. Hence the over reaction.
Peace.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:20
Fred;
Red Ranter; While we may seem sober, really we’ve been on the whiskey all day long, it’s just our alcoholism has taken us so far that we now are immune to it. 
Grognard; it was a joke. Jokes are lighthearted fun, you overreact. And no, don’t turn it on me, I am not missing the point etc. Then again this whiskey could just have gone straight to my head, who’s to know? 
Anyone have any decent jokes to lighten the mood?
May 19th, 2008 at 1:20
JB:
It seems that Saha has saved us the trouble. Surprise, surprise he’s injured and won’t travel. I wonder if that is the truth, or whether SAF told him he wouldn’t play and Saha decided not to travel.
In any event, whatever the true reason for Saha’s absence, I feel vindicated in saying that it would have been too great a risk to have put him on the bench in place of a more deserving and reliable player, such as Fletcher.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:21
[Fred]
]. I love the works of Orwell [1984, Animal Farm and a couple of his essays]. Great writer well ahead of his times.
I know mate, which is why I responded with me being more equal [I also added a smiley
At times written comments don’t exactly convey sarcasm.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:24
Nino, for feck sake mate, how am I supposed to know where you come from?. There is nothing on your posts, that tell me what nationality you are!. As I said to RR, do I have to apologise for my ancestry?. Whatever nationality you are, I expect that you love your nation, local community and peoples. It is the same with me!. My roots are Irish/Scots/English, and I am Salford born and bred, course I am going to be drawn and love my ancestral and local people. I don’t care who supports United, I am glad for every fan, wherever they originate, but I mix with locals, Irish and Scots mostly at the matches. What do you expect me to do about that Nino?.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:29
Yeah you’re right RR, allow the mud-slinging for today (well, until the next time Grognard posts something inflammatory hehe!). I’m beat and gonna go to sleep now. Craig mc: I have no problem whatsoever with you mixing with your people at matches. I’m also sorry if I misinterpreted your point, only you know what you meant mate, but like RR, I interpreted it to be something else.
Red Ranter: Just out of curiosity, what has been the record number of posts any of your articles has received? I’m sure this article must be a contender lol.
Anyway night all and sweet dreams (preferably about us winning in Moscow on Wednesday!).
May 19th, 2008 at 1:32
I just knew that you would be switched on Red Ranter, I think Orwells book 1984 would be an eye opening read taking into account when it was wrote and how it reflects certain aspects of life today, but that debate is for another day on a non sporting blog.
And by the way, although I must confess that for various reasons I share craigs views about the local fans and the scotch and Irish contingent,but I also respect the views of any United fan no matter were they are from.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:44
[Nino]
I think it was 194/195.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:47
RR - peace, what a good word!. I do understand and appreciate your position as Boss of this blog - not feckin easy for you by any means!. I value too, that you have allowed all the trying debating going on in this thread today, and have not interjected, even though you must have felt like it sometimes!. I know it seems like mudslinging, but with so many different mindsets and outlooks, it is bound to happen, and you did so great in letting us sort it out ourselves. Course there will always be things that will never get sorted, but that’s life. I certainly appreciate very much your discreetness today RR!. You just allowed the mudslinging as you call it to run it’s course lol. Thank you!.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:53
Nino, no problem mate, and thankyou!. Sweet dreams and hope you wake up fresh!.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:04
craig mc, how many games do you get to each year and whats the ticket situation like in Salford. Travelled over from Belfast for the Everton and Lyon games myself this season and God willing I hope to get to a few more next season, maybe even starting with Oles testimonial game in pre season
May 19th, 2008 at 8:51
If the news is true that Saha is once again injured and won’t make the final, then I damn well demand an apology from each person on this blog that busted my balls over the last 48 hours.
Perhaps some of you will be honest with yourselves and admit that deep down I am right and that you just didn’t have the kahonas to agree with my tirade against Balsa Boy. To quote Rafa “eeth omboliebable!”.
Craig the problem with pushing your nationality in that way is it comes across to some of us as very condescending with a pinch of Ancient Roman superiority mixed in for taste. When an outsider reads it it sounds like Irish, English and Scots are superior to the rest. It wasn’t that long ago that they hated each other’s guts and were at each other’s throats. Ironic! I know that is NOT what you mean but that is the curse of the internet. If people on this blog like yourself were having a drink with me at a pub and had me deliver my stinging commentary on Saha and Nani in person, you might not react so badly because seeing how I say it and how it is delivered would make you realize I was talking out of frustration and trying to fire up a little harmless banter. But writing on the blog even with the help of smiley’s just doesn’t always convey itself in the intended manner.
People can take things wrong and misinterpret intentions terribly. Something to keep in mind the next time you defend your position. Trust me, it’s not easy. Especially after a game where a Nani has pulled an incredibly bone headed act that could have cost the team dearly. Suppressing feelings of anger and frustration isn’t easy for me or other on this blog. But I seem to get under peoples skin more than all the others combined. Don’t think I am oblivious to that and that it doesn’t bother me. Everybody wants to be respected and liked. I am no different. But in order to get accepted one should not stop being himself and speaking his mind. Honesty and sincerity is a big part of who I am. Conformity and political correctness is not who I am. Quite often I am larger than life and I wear my personality on my sleeve. I am extremely extroverted and opinionated. I don’t feel comfortable around quiet and mousy people. I hate silence. It makes me insecure. My posts are long because I have things to say that take more than a few words. Expressing myself is therapeutic, yet so many of you try to stifle my thoughts as if you have been given some divine right to do so.
But still I go on because I love Manchester United and I need to speak my mind whether it be good or blasphemy. I’ve got to be me 
May 19th, 2008 at 9:53
Fred the Red, one can usually get hold of tickets for most of the games at OldTrafford, because as you know, season ticket holders send their tics back to the ticket office when they are not able to make the matches. This happens quite often with the prawn sandwich brigade, bless their hearts, and so tics are often available. My cousin and some of my friends are season ticket holders, and have jobs that mean they can’t make every game. So yeah, I can get to almost all the games some way or other!. When will your next pilgrimage to Theatre of dreams be then?. Did you say Ole’s testimonial?. That should be a mammoth entertainer!.
Grog, whatever you say mate, WHATEVER YOU SAY!. I will just skip all your posts in future, so there will be no arguements - how’s that!. Think others on the blog will be breathing a sigh of relief right about now lol!.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:03
Grognard; Ha, good luck getting your apology, you sure as hell ain’t getting one from me. I didn’t say that Saha was not an injury prone cunt, but the fact that he got injured does not vindicate anything you say or have said in the past about him, your feelings of hatred towards Saha are stronger than mine towards anyone, and since you don’t particularly know the man, too strong.
May 19th, 2008 at 15:15
Grognard; By the way, I’d rather you would use another word instead of conformists, I don’t particularly like the fact that you continually use it when talking about people on this blog. It would be a nice gesture if you agreed rather than gave me a speech about your right to say what you want.
May 19th, 2008 at 16:02
Conor; Too bad for you. I’ll use whatever God Damned word I feel like using OK,
Absolutely unbelievable! I make a joke, I even use a frakken smiley to get my point across as a joke and you have to hit back with rude and vindictive words that cut like a knife. Then you start dictating what words I should use. I think you take yourself a bit too seriously. You are also becoming a royal pain in my backside. Kindly leave me be and I’ll try not to waste my team responding to anything you say. I’ve absolutely had my fill of you.
May 19th, 2008 at 16:51
Grognard; You haven’t used a smiley the other times you called us all conformists. Also, “rude and vindicate words” = overreaction. I did no such thing and you know that yourself. I take myself too seriously do I? Wouldn’t that be what you would call a personal and very vindictive use of name calling Grognard? You are a hypocrite, it is clear for all to see. And no that is not a hurtful word, we all are, yet you deny it.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:11
When it comes to you Conor, I’ll lower myself to your level to get my message across one more time. You’re hopeless and I refuse to ever have anything to do with you on this blog ever again. So in the future you can say whatever you like because I will ignore you like I ignore American Idol. You are dead to me and you are a sad little man who likes to play judge , jury and executioner. Take a humility pill on your way out the door. And if you only knew how many expletives I refrained from using to express my rage regarding you.
May 19th, 2008 at 17:16
Grognard; you’re too easily wound up mate. Red Ranter, just in case, if you feel I was out of order I apologize.
May 19th, 2008 at 19:19
The Daily Mail reported this morning that Saha was injured: see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=567195&in_page_id=1779&ct=5
But that’s the only news outlet that has run with that story, and I’ve seen Saha get on the plane to Moscow. So who knows what’s going on.
May 19th, 2008 at 21:04
Frankie; I take the term “getting on the plane” very loosely. It generally refers to the players who will dress for the game. However, United will also pay for many of their staff as well as injured players and a few reserves who have made an important contribution over the year or years. Saha is probably being allowed to come along to take part in the celebrations should we win. That is of course if he is injured. If he isn’t, I see him on the bench. We need to have an alternative at strike on the bench if both Tevez and Rooney start. All the more reason for him to be injured. When has he ever been available when we needed him?
May 19th, 2008 at 21:10
[Grognard]
When has he ever been available when we needed him?
Against Sunderland when he headed that goal in from a corner earlier in the season when we were struggling to score. He was there when we absolutely needed him. Came off the bench too.
I know it was a rhetorical question. So don’t bother responding to this. It was answered with my tongue firmly in my cheek.
May 20th, 2008 at 0:19
RR; The third or fourth game of the season hardly constitutes a “clutch” situation. I think playing Chelsea at the Bridge or perhaps the Champions League final would be a better use of his availability.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:55
Like SAF, said when he’s fit, he’s an awesome striker. Wasn’t he supposed to be injured at the end of the EPL season? But he was healthy enough to hop aorund with the other players after winning the trophy…strange.