Aug 10
Some NOTW Nonsense + Community Shield Preview
We return to some real footballing action today with the Community Shield against Portsmouth — although pseudo-real could be a better word as the real action begins next week. But before we move on to the preview of today’s game a brief word on some early morning bollocks.
The News of the World, as is their wont, decided to run a story where Real Madrid are to sue Ronaldo for £17m for deciding to stay at Old Trafford. The reason: apparently they had agreed personal terms with Ronaldo and there was a clause of compensation of 17m if he decided to stay back at Manchester. The story was run sans quotes which gives it as much credibility as a talking chimp on weed.
But the same paper ran another story where Fergie is quoted as saying that Madrid had put in one bid in the summer which was rejected. Now if one were to put these two together, then I can see only two possible outcomes:
1. Real Madrid are clearly guilty of tapping up and said contract with the player would be rendered null and void.
2. The story is absolute bollocks.
I tend to go with outcome #2. I can’t imagine a seasoned agent like Jorge Mendes indulging in potty deals like these.
Speaking of bollocksy stories, so is the one on Henry. Where the fuck is the proof in that This is London article? It’s got no quote, and it’s the only source carrying that story. Lazy journalism in my humble opinion. And I really don’t rate any daily these days apart from the BBC to some extent. Everyone including the Guardian are up to no good. (Although, I do think the Guardian have a few good columnists.)
Anyway, on to better things, the Community Shield today pits us against Portsmouth. Michael Carrick, who made a quicker recovery from the virus that has kept Rooney down, returns to the squad and so do Nani and Neville. It’s unlikely Neville will start whilst I believe Nani will. So will Carlos Tevez.
I guess, our starting XI should be something like this: EVDS (in goal), Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Nani, Tevez, Campbell. At different times in the game we will get to see the likes of Possebon, da Silva twins and Darron Gibson.
It’s good to give a run to a more settled squad that will play next week. And that’s why our strongest defence will be put out first and given a good work out.
Prediction: 2-0 to United.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Chelsea: Community Shield Preview
- Anderson talks – puts speculation to bed
- Community Shield Preview
- Sunday Roundup: Heinze Speaks Finally
- United* 1-1 Chelsea: First Blood to the Reds
Tags: Manchester United News
Craig Mc (195)
RedDevilEddy (170)
Opti (135)
Moscow is my heaven (96)
Ian (95)
Hahaha, if you lot think that game was entertaining, that what do you all do for FUN, attend Wakes!. To me, it was all huff and puff, with no CLIMAX at the end, in other words a letdown. I want the Roon, the Ronnie, the Berba, the Hunterlaar, the Santa Cruz, anybody who can put the feckin ball in the net. Excuse me, if I thought football was all about scoring goals, if you are playing what Fergie calls the United Way!!!!!!!.
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@Red Ranter: thanks for the clarification RR!! btw, what did u think about the game today?
I thought our team really showed composure in defence, disciplined build-up play, but were unlucky not to finish it off(maybe a striker will solve that). But what I was most impressed with was our chemistry despite the team being a mash-up of players playing out of position. They all seemed to have matured from last season and are displaying the confidence of true champions.
Also, Gaz was impressive, so was Fletch. I reckon he might do a neat job on the wings this season, what do you reckon?
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Fletch is the best worst player in the premiership
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Gabriel do you really believe our players were unlucky not to finish off their good field play, which I can agree to the build up was okay. They weren’t unlucky though not to score, they were totally inept. It says something, when the Pompey fans cheered and ridiculed our every so called effort on goal. Last season, opposing fans hearts were in their mouths with Rooney and Ronnie bearing down on their goal. Not today, the Pompey fans were confident that if we played all day, we wouldn’t score. Sorry, but I don’t think there’s any excuse for that kind of ineptitude. Doesn’t anybody think it was a little bit embarrasing?.
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tevez looks like aman on a mission, and would be gobsmacked if and when we get the new striker, he was dropped for rooney.
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Embarrassed?????? Pardon my french man, but what the fuck was embarrassing?? Playing a top 8 Prem side off the pitch while missing a whole team of regulars through injury?? Of course the Pompey fans were cheering our misses, what the fuck else were they going to cheer about? Their team gave them nothing! And its easy to not have their heart in mouths with nerves at our awesome firepower when the game doesnt fucking mean anything!
Please guys, for fucks sake, just relax….We created enough chances to beat them twice, and I admit I dont know the pompey side inside and out but I think that looked like it was rather close to their strongest side. And united dominated in every aspect of the game.
Im thinking the starting 11 for Newcastle will have Wes come in for Gary, Carrick come in for O’shea, and Wayne comes in for Nani. If any person on here is still concerned about the three points with that available line up, well, i just dont know what to say to you.
In Vidic I Trust
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@Traverse: Agreed
No seriously, he’s really underrated! On top of his game he’s a world beater, its just a shame he’s irregular.
On the other hand, I have my doubts about O’shea… If Fletch were to leave us he coulld easily go play for Villa or teams looking after Europe! But can you in all honesty say the same about JOS? I used to think he was quite decent at CB, he was fast, strong, tall and a decent tackler. Playing him at Full back, well, why not? But he’s freckin inept at CM/DM! A DM remains a CM and should be able to pass and privide disponibilty to other players to find them in build up play. Unfortnnately it seems that this aspect of the game is really not his forte. Bring on Anderson (after he finishes the olympics as top scorer!) and Possebon!
Oh and just as Grog is officially the leader/founder of the Owen Hargreaves Appreciation Society, I wish to be known as the founder of the Possebon Appreciation Consortium. This guy is going to be world class mark my words!
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About the match itself….Player notes/observations….
–VdS, could have brought a book
–Rio and Vidic, ditto for both of them. Had “bambie on ice” and defoe locked down completely.
–Evra, just outstanding. Amazing tackles and dangerous on the attack. I love it when he gets fouled by his marker and it makes him mad (like papa diops tackle from behind in the first half) because i swear it just pisses Evra off and makes him play even better. He is terrific, the best LB in the league.
–Gary, Good to have the club captain out and good to see him back in action, but the rustiness is understandably still there. Just looks like he is two steps slow. Oh well, the comeback is a long process.
–O’Shea, did good work defensively, broke up play nicely a few times. But just not enough quickness or vision to be a Defensive CM for me.
–Scholes, typical, pass and move pass and move, keep it simple. Nothing spectacular, but just consistently consistent.
–Nani, looked good. Glen Johnson is a decent footballer and a decent right back, but Nani went at him constantly and caused him problems the whole match. I like how he fights to regain possession for the team and I like his aggressivness, he fights for his teammates which I think they appreciate so they dont get so angry or frustrated with him when one of his crosses goes behind the goal or some such.
–Fletch, not bad at all even in his unfavored position. I think he is a very capable box to box CM, and never has been and never will be a good right winger, but he does his job and works his fucking ass off, so you gotta love it. Had some good moments in the game too, I liked his chip with the outside of his right foot, that would have gone in!
–Giggs, meh…not great. Came into the game well though i though, and his passes and flicks started coming off more effeciently as the game went along.
–Carlos, as everyone has already said, he was awesome. Always wanting the ball, always looking to create, and just a tazmanian devil to deal with.
Disappointed not to see Possebon come in for O’shea, as I wanted to see a CM partnership of Carrick and Possebon, but oh well. Same disappoinment for not seeing Rafeal. And does anyone else, especially those of us with siblings, feel really bad for Fabio? God, how much must that suck when your brother gets the call up for the first team and you dont. How depressing.
In Vidic I Trust
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@Craig Mc: mate, like u said in ur post, Rooney and ronnie were missing (two of our top scorers). Anyway, we all know we need a striker/poacher as Fergie even confirmed. Apart from that, every other aspect of our game was sublime, and when we get that striker plus the return of our 1st-teamers, other teams will be quaking in their boots.
imagine us controlling games like we did today with the added bonus of having someone to convert all the chances we create…. mate, this season is gonna be amazing!!!
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Drew Vader, I wasn’t talking about the overall play, I was talking about the ineptitude in front of goal. Maybe you weren’t embarassed Drew, but I was. So sue me lol!. I did find the game boring to be honest, but that’s my opinion, and not one I’m likely to change. Sorry Drew mate.
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@Red Ranter: Thank you for the clarification. I was not aware of that. It’s like when somebody is the bomb. In north America to bomb is to be a major failure. It actually makes more sense because bomb fall. Americans have a saying where they call a person BAD. That means the guy is real good. Christ I hate modern day slang. It’s the shits (North American version). Thanks again for the clarification and Apologies to my good mate Gabriel for misunderstanding his statement. Just an old Grognard who is not too hip with the modern slang.
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@Gabriel: Yup! RR pointed that out to me. My apologies mate. I wasn’t aware of that slang term meaning the exact opposite to the North American version. So I guess we are in agreement and once again, great minds think alike.
I like Fletch a lot but my hero on the team is Hargreaves. I admit to a little Canadian bias there but I just love his style of play and determination as well, he played many years for my other favorite team Bayern. Hargo can do no wrong except suffer from this frustrating tendinitis. The two United jersey’s I own are Cantona and Hargo. He’s the shit! 
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RR; I thought you were going to e-mail me to discuss my change of thoughts towards Ronaldo? Or so I thought.
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@Craig Mc: Hey Craig, I’ve been to some pretty good wakes where the food was great and I ended up meeting girls that I shagged. Don’t knock wakes.
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@Grognard: i see ur doin it will ferrell style from wedding crashers
… how do people pick up chicks at wakes? y’all need to fill me in 
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@Craig Mc: I agree that they were inept but I really think that comes down more to pre season rust rather than lack of ability. But you are so right about the aspect of the game is to score goals. All the tricks, movement and pizazz means nothing unless you score a goal. Reminds me a little of Rangers who continue to useless finishers up front and sit a true goal scorer down every game. Smith just doesn’t get it and he and the team deserved what they got this week. It’s all about goals and we better start seeing them. Lets not forget that we got off to the same start last year and it lasted 6 games into the season before the offense woke up. We ended up scoring 80 goals in the EPL and the second most goals in the CL. So I wouldn’t panic although yes, we still need a world class striker to give us more option and quality up front and improve our seasonal goal tally to near 100. Why not, shoot for the stars. The 2000 team almost scored 100.
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@Gabriel: You need to respond to their soft and emotional side and you need to basically talk to women. Too many men don’t know how to talk to women. Without being a flirtatious Guido, I use my Greek charm and a very caring and understanding ear to break through their defenses. And I never shagged them the night of the wake. It was a date or two later. That was many moons ago and trust me, I have lost my touch and ability to get a handshake yet a good shagging these days.
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@dan(u-ol): I think a solid rotation of the three will bring out the best in all three and keep them fresh for the whole season. At United it’s not about ego, it’s about trophies. If the new signing doesn’t like that, Fergie knows exactly what to do with him.
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@Drew Vader: In Lord Vader we trust.
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@Grognard: LOL.. hang in there mate, we all have our dry spells!! we always move past it, and get hotter chicks in the aftermath; just like United did after our fruitless seasons of 2003-2005
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@Grognard: *Gasp* you were actually positive…never thought i’d see that day…Anyway, no one was ever denying we needed a striker, i for one just mainly disagreed with your comments that the reason for our transfer inactiveness was that we were broke due to the debt and the Glaziers and i continue to stand by that…
@Red Diablo: Thats awful news, i wouldn’t want Henry anywhere near OT or even in a United shirt, God please don’t let this be true.
On the game, most of the players had a good game, O’Shea was anonymous, but he did his part, so far Campbell has done nothing to prove that he deserves to be our first team striker, i can’t believe Fergie would think of not buying anyone and leaving us with Tevez, Rooney and Campbell, I’d have liked to see Rafael get a run-out, I think if he could pull off runs like the ones in the Juve and Peterbrough games against a defense like Portsmouth, then i’d say he’s ready to start some games for us, but i guess that was not to be.
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Grog lol, your incorrigible!. Wakes are supposed to be sad, tearful, and sombre affairs.
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Grog, Gabriel, I hear you, but I agree with Fergie, that we cannot afford to fall behind the other top 3 at the start of the season, like last year, because Fergie feels the others will not fall away due to injuries at strategic time to their players, which is what allowed us to catch them up. We need the goals flowing from the very 1st match.
Drew Vader, just to be devilish, here’s my take on the players game today.
VDS – Bloody marvelous as always, though he had little to do.
Evra – Always plays like a winner, which he did today.
Red Nev, should have only played the 1st half, cos he ran out of steam quickly.
Rio/Vidic – Immense, solid as a rock.
O’Shea – gets stuck in, but he’s not a Hargo is he?. No doubting his enthusiasm though.
Fletcher – couldn’t have scored, if terrorists were holding him at gunpoint, and his life depended on it. He did work hard tho, but got him no bloody where.
Scholesy – Not one of his better days. Where he left his shooting boots, and his MAP showing the way to the goals, I do not know.
Giggsy – If anyone ever sees a Giggsy pass get to the player it is meant for rather than the opposition, let me know please, and I will send him a congratulatory telegram in recognition.
Little Man Nani – BLOODY BRILLIANT IN EVERY SINGLE WAY, didn’t put a foot wrong. Course that isn’t just me being biased because he’s my favourite player, of course not lol!.
Apache Tev, he runs on and on, and on and on, like a battery always on charge. Great footballer. He better real in those temper tantrums he has started to have, and putting his hands around other peoples throats, because he should have seen red today, and then we would have been in even more bloody trouble for start of season.
Campbell – he tired, he failed, that’s all I can say about him.
Wes – reliable as ever.
Carrick, not on long enough to have the kind of effect on the game we know might have changed things.
All in all a right SNOOZE fest, as most of the papers are saying in tomorrow’s headlines.
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@Rd: I’ve been positive many many types mate. It’s just some of you only cling to my negative comments. As for our finances, I am still a believer of my theory that the tea has very little money to spend on transfer until Fergie proves me wrong and buys a player or two. Until then I feel I have a real case because it seems he is being halted in his pursuit of a striker because he doesn’t want to pay and extra five million to get him. When you are this in need of a striker, you don’t bicker over 5 million. Not if you make the money that team does in a year. But you do if every dime you make goes into paying off a massive debt. It’s all in how you look at things. It’s up to Fergie to prove me wrong.
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@Gabriel: Right now my sex life reminds of Liverpool’s number of EPL titles.
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@Craig Mc: It’s all in how you look at it. Actually I have been to a number of very upbeat wakes where plenty of food and jokes were being presented. Some people feel their loved ones would want them to celebrate their lives and not their deaths. Then there are Greek wakes where there is lots of food but nobody can enjoy it because everybody is so quiet, withdrawn and sad. A real bummer of time and a bad place to pick up girls. The wakes I have had success at were and Irish wake and an Australian one. They were very upbeat ceremonies and there was even soft and classy dancing in a hall. Go figure! Oh and although I have never crashed any weddings, I have had great success at them. Especially with envious and jealous bridesmaids. Just make sure you let them how much more beautiful they are than the bride. Secret to my success.
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My Girlfriend is away for a week or so, and that’s why I have been able to spend a bit more time blogging – haha!, Things will revert back in a few days when she returns. Women eh?.
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I swore I wouldn’t watch the Olympics because of China’s politics and crimes against humanity and because the coverage of the events is catered to people with ADD. Still, I was channel surfing and the Canadian coverage (God bless their non American souls) had the class to show the Argentina vs Australia game in it’s entirety. Man I love to watch the Argentines play. I especially love watching the great Riquelme (God’s gift to football) play and distribute great passes and show incredible vision. It is especially a treat to see how Riquelme and Messi are attached at the hip. They have an uncanny understanding of what the other will do. Both missed some great chances today but the teams build up to the goal was fantastic. But here’s the thing. The very same thing happened to them in the box that was happening to United. They were making a meal of their opportunities. And I honestly have to say that the combination of Aguero and Messi up front isn’t working. This just strengthens my theory that you cannot properly function with two second strikers or CF’s. You need a Crespo up front to poach and to show the proper instinct in the box. I swear, you put either Rooney and Tevez up front with Huntelaar and incredible things will happen. Even Berbatov, but not nearly as well. But please God, do not destroy my season by bringing that cunt Henry to OT.
Riquelme is still GOD. That man is just sublime and majestic to watch. I wish he was German. By the way, Argentibna won the game 1-0.
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@Craig Mc: Hey Craig, now that you are back, you can’t go cold turkey on us and disappear again. You need to sit down with the lady and have a heart to heart. Pick her favorite hobby and interest and use it against her. You need your footy fix and this blog needs you mate. Problem is, we don’t smell or feel as good as she does and we don’t put out…right?
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I wonder if Tevez was watching that game. The Argentine’s are passionately patriotic, so I expect he was. Grog, it’s 2am in the wee small hours here, so I’m off to bed and dreaming. Night then!.
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I can still get on to blog, just not as often. Just learnt to compromise that’s all lol!. You keep blogging Grog, cos its early evening where you are in Canada isn’t it. I will look up all your posts tomorrow.
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@Grognard:Your theory that two second strikers playing up front together limits their effectiveness is entirely accurate. I share this opinion with you. However, feel that rooney is the exception to the rule. He is naturally a second striker but i think he can basically play well and play effectively anywhere. He is a very complete player. As a main striker, he is better than messi or aguero, and is competent with the likes of torres. This is the reason it would seem that i disagree with your general view. I don’t, you are correct in my eyes that a strike partnership should consist of two players who’s styles are complimentary. I personally feel that robbie keane wasn’t the right player for liverpool. He is like torres in the sense that he looks to run in behind the defense. It will be interesting to see how they link up.
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Craig…Who cares if it was boring to the neutrals man? The only time the community shield could ever be exciting and thrilling was if you had either two teams that hate each other, or if you had two of the top four who are BOTH desperate to set the tone for the season and get a small mental edge. We had neither of that in todays match, so it was about getting fitness and preparing for the season.
Other than that I’d say we agree on pretty much agree on everything else. Although Nani is nowhere near my favorite player….
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Reflecting again on the Portsmouth game it was the sort of game we’d have won in the past with a Ronaldo goal. So many matches last season it was Ronaldo we relied on to finish one of the millions of chances our team habitually creates.
Tevez scores the odd match winner and Rooney has scoring streaks but Ronaldo is still the only consistent goal scorer in our squad. As goals are required to win matches that is a crazy situation to be in.
Rooney and Tevez can work but for that partnership to be ideal Rooney would have to be a more consistent goal scorer. Ferguson keeps talking about turning Rooney into a 30 goal a season man but it never happens.
Nani is great to watch and so fast! Cannot wait till he finishes his suspension and we get to see him step up in Ronaldo’s absence!
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@Craig Mc: Have a good night mate. Catch you tomorrow.
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@tevez: I agree with you regarding Rooney except for a few key problems. Wayne is not physical enough in the box, he really does suck in the air and lets be honest, his finishing and poaching skills have dipped off compared to his first couple of years with the team. The good news is I think he can improve his finishing and instinctive qualities. His first touch is sublime but he isn’t great at holding up the ball. Put a Berbatov who is fantastic at holding up the ball and then distributing beautiful finesse passes that penetrate a defense and you have a real potent weapon whether it be Rooney or Tevez who are on the other end of those passes.
I really think the goal for the team this year and next is to have the forwards score more goals and to actually have Ronaldo score fewer goals but become more well rounded and dynamic. That will actually make the team better. Ronaldo 25, Rooney 20, Tevez 15, Berbatov 15, is a better and more even distribution of goals and would actually give our team more dimension and put more of a scare into the opposition. Now if we get increased scoring out of our midfield it is very conceivable that we can reach 100 goals if we stay fairly healthy. Those totals are only EPL goals. In the CL I could see Ronaldo scoring 5 to 10, Rooney scoring around 5 and Tevez a couple because I think Berbatov would be Fergie’s preference in the Cl as that is the motivating factor for Berbatov to leave. You need to play him therefore in those games and play Tevez more in the EPL. I think Berbatov could score 5 to 10 in the CL. we’ll have to wait and see as well, we still don’t know if Berby will be ours.
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Courtsey – The Mirror
Man Utd and Spurs in Berbatov stand-off
By Paul Smith, sundaymirror.co.uk 10/08/2008
Dimitar Berbatov
Manchester United and Tottenham have less than 72 hours to agree a peace deal that can pave the way for Dimitar Berbatov’s transfer.
Sunday Mirror Sport can reveal that the Premier League will sit in judgment on the complaint brought by Tottenham against United for allegedly tapping up the Bulgarian striker on Wednesday morning.
If the PL feel there is a case to answer, United will be charged and fall at the mercy of a three-man independent commission who will sit in judgement.
United could even be docked points if the commission feel their crime is serious enough.
United, who have already tabled a £20million offer for the 27-year-old, insisted last night they would not increase their bid and any chance of the transfer going through depends on Spurs immediately dropping their action against the champions.
A senior United source said: “Our interest in Berbatov remains but is now the subject of certain demands.
“Primarily the club want any action taken against them by Spurs rescinded and they must accept there will be no improvement on the original offer.”
Spurs have already set a precedent after dropping a similar case against Liverpool to pave the way for Robbie Keane’s departure to Anfield.
Tottenham want about £35m for Berbatov, £15m more than United are prepared to pay.
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I am sure somebody has said this already Fergie not Henry…………..please.
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@Grognard:
Everyone knows we could do with another striker but its not about buying just anyone. Its about the right striker at the right price. We have perfectly adequate options especially as its looking like Rooney might be back so buying just anyone doesnt really add anything.
I mean you have people like Huntelaar who is unproven due to playing in an inferior league that allows Afonso Alves to have such a good strike rate (infact slightly better), or for that matter Georgios Samaras or before them Marcus Allbäck and Jon Dahl Tomasson. Yes there are players who did well in England also coming from such as Ruud and Bergkamp but with the step up in quality and settling into a new club, a different league and a new country its alot to ask for him to be worth spending the £20mill reported on and be a player you could throw into the team and get a performance from immediately. Don’t get me wrong I think he would in the long term be a great hit but I see him taking atleast as long as Torres to look comfortable in the league (He was fairly ordinary for the much of the first half of the season) maybe even longer as the jump from the spanish league to the english league is a lot less than dutch league to english league
Its not even as if he is that young either, he is 25 tomorrow which lets be honest cant have been good for his development. He needed to have been playing at a higher level earlier than 25
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Colver – post 134. Couldn’t agree with you more mate. You pretty much said everything I believe. And your sensible enough to be a Nani fan, and see his potential lol!.
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Drew Vader, but I am not a neutral, am I ?. Yet I am honest enough to agree with the neutrals, that yesterday’s game was SHITE, and snooze fest supreme. For a supposed showcase of football, a curtain raiser, it failed big time. Football without goals is not my cup of tea, I don’t care who we are playing.
And Drew, how can Nani not be your favourite player – haha!. That lads a little belter!.
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@Grognard: Rooney definitely sucks in the air and he is not all that physical in the box, but i wouldn’t say his finishing and poaching skills have dipped off. With him playing in a more advanced position last season, his long-range efforts have dwindled and he has found himself in more one-on-one positions. I am greatly encouraged by the number of times he found himself through against the keeper, especially as he missed a great deal of them. I would have been very worried if, after squandering a few of his chances, they had dried up. Obviously, there is room for improvement here, and i agree with you that he should improve on the number of chances he converts. For this to happen though, he has to be playing in the out-and-out striker position where he played last season. Bringing in an out-and-out striker for rooney to play off of will see rooney utilising some of his other qualities instead. His passing, vision and decision-making abilities would come back into play, along with his dribbling and long-range shooting – his flair, basically, returns to his game, as this is what the position requires.
While rooney plays in the main striker role he does not have to be able to hold the ball up well. It is not his game, not his style. Strikers don’t have to be able to hold the ball up effectively if they have genuine pace and make intelligent runs. I’m sure you’ll agree that torres, villa, eto’o, owen and ronaldo(brazilian) are or were great strikers, and none of their styles revolve around playing with their backs to goal or being physical in the box. It doesn’t stop them scoring goals. They help their team’s play not hamper it. They do not need to be paired with a more physical target man in order for either the team to be effective or the player to be effective. When rooney plays up top i would compare his style to that of these players, and i think they benifit more from being paired with a player who has an eye for a pass, rather than a hold-up player. Take the torres-gerrard partnership last year. They were excellent near the end of the season when benitez settled gerrard into a position in behind torres. Once gerrard got the ball, torres was on his bike and gerrard had the vision to find him. No real need for a player holding the ball up on the front lines. I agree that berbatov would help the team’s play, but it has more to do with his vision and finesse rather than his ability to shield the ball. I do not think the signing of berbatov means we will be seeing rooney return to his natural position behind a striker, as i don’t see berbatov as a main striker. It is more likely he will continue dropping off the defense and drifting about, looking uninterested and relaxed, peforming classy touches and passes. He isn’t the kind of player to bust a gut to get in the box either. A wayne rooney playing with berbatov will be quite similar to the rooney of last season, in that he will probably look to play on the shoulder and get on the end of berbatov’s threaded passes.
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@wakey: Your statement about the weakness of the Dutch league has no validity to it. Need I go into the dozens of world class names that have come out of that league in the last ten years? How about the hundreds since 1969? How about I just go with two names right now who happened to have pretty damned good careers while in the EPL? Ruud van Nistelrooy and Denis Bergkamp. If Fergie and Wenger held your bias and narrow minded view of that league to heart, these players would never have played in the EPL. A league does not make a player. A player makes a player. Don’t punish Huntelaar because he’s Dutch, just like you shouldn’t downgrade Adebayor because he’s from Togo. Quality and class doesn’t just breed in the top four or five leagues in the world. I guess Ole was garbage too coming from the Norwegian league and Dwight Yorke may have had some EPL experience before we bought him but come on, he’s only from Trinidad & Tobago.
Your argument is weak because you really are not backing up your point with hard evidence to prove that most Dutch players who come to the EPL like Alvez and Kezman (not Dutch by the way) are total shite. Like I said I can be repetitive and give you the lists of world class players who have come from Holland which I’m sure you already know is one of the top three best football factories in the world. Their domestic league may not be what it used to be in the Cruyff or even Gullit or van Basten eras, but they have turned out so many world class players that it just make me laugh and chuckle at your continual downgrading of their efforts and those of one Klass Jan Huntelaar. Give it a rest mate, you’re not convincing me and you are not winning this argument no matter how much you believe to the contrary. For you it’s a forlorn hope because you cannot look beyond two weak points in you theory. That just because a league is weak, that means all their players are and just because a player has no EPL experience or experience in a top league, he is not qualified to play in the EPL for Man Utd. Just totally wrong on so many levels. Sorry mate, I won’t travel that road with you because it’s a dead end.
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@tevez: I think Rooney’s chances and strike rate will improve even if he plays the role of a second striker behind a Berbatov or Huntelaar. Too many times last year he was stuck out on the wing or even in an advanced midfield role and that made him virtually useless up front. He also does not do well as a lone striker up front as he has the tendency to want to do too much and he’s not strong at holding up the ball and waiting for support. He reminds of a supply truck in war that overruns it’s supply lines and has to wait for the lines to move forward to catch up. His finishing will also improve when he is not counted on to be the main striker. He was prolific and far more composed at finishing his strikes when RVN was in front of him. Ronaldo’s brilliance on the other hand often forces him to try to match the brilliance and that often leads to him doing too much or going a bridge too far. Barring injury, Rooney will be much improved this year as his role is better defined and better suited to his abilities. But he will never be the quintessential striker we need because he lacks the physicality, aerial ability and poacher instinct (not bad, but not Huntelaar) that is required for a striker. As a second striker or CF, he is one of the best in the world.
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@Grognard: Rooney did play out on a wing at times last season but when he was playing as the main striker he played like one – he stayed long and although he was mobile he did not spend his time out wide. His strike rate will improve if he plays as the main striker, but playing as a second striker will limit the number of times he finds himself one-on-one and therefore will limit his goalscoring capacity.
Physicality and aeriel ability is only a requirement for certain kinds of strikers. It is a good characteristic of forwards like luca toni and huntelaar, but it is not something that every striker needs. Michael owen is a fairly shit player overall nowadays but he is still a good striker and he will still score goals. I will assume you think of torres as a good striker. He does not base his game on his strength and holding the ball up, but he does put himself about, like rooney does. Torres’ game is about his pace and movement, and he utilises the vision of his teammates( well, gerrard). When rooney plays on the shoulder, his style is similar. The big difference between the two is the conversion rate. Often last season, torres would only need one chance and rooney would need plenty. Here’s the thing; that was the first season where torres has been clinical. In the seasons before last, torres’ conversion rate was like rooney’s. Torres is likely to be a consistent goalscorer for the rest of his career now, provided he doesn’t get second season syndrome. Rooney gets on the end of a similar number of chances to torres. Even when he misses, he continues to make chances. This is important. A player who makes chances will score goals. Eventually. At some point rooney will break the pattern he is in right now if he holds onto the responsibility that comes with being the teams main striker. Then he would be regarded as a complete striker.
I agree that a lone striker needs to be able to play with his back to goal, hold the ball and wait for midfield runners. However, i hate the idea of only playing one up front. It is negative. I like two up front or three up front – and when i say three i mean a proper three-man attack, not the 4-5-1 crap most managers claim is a 4-3-3. Huntelaar doesn’t do it for me as a lone striker either though, he is far more effective when he has a supporting forward who gets involved in play. It means he doesn’t have to take part in build-up play and can take up his excellent positions in the box. It is the same with van nistelrooy, michael owen and kris boyd. This definitely works in huntelaar’s favour in terms of his suitability for united, with rooney and tevez both being complimentary to him. They would bring out the best in huntelaar.
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@tevez: Fair enough I agree with your last post. Rooney is not a Huntelaar or Toni type but he does bring other qualities to that role that those guys don’t. I admit though that I am a little old school in my way of thinking and I do want a striker that fits the more traditional model for striker. And as that is my criteria, I see Rooney and Tevez alternating at second striker and either one of them spelling off the striker we do buy for the odd start up front. Either way all three will get plenty of games but not so many that they are tired or knackered by the end of the year or when it really becomes crunch time. Add to that Campbell, Manucho (if they can get him his visa) and God forbid Saha, and we have enough cover for early round FA Cup games and League Cup games that will allow the big three even more rest.
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@Grognard:
My evidence isnt valid is it? Its more valid than anything you raise, lets name loads of old players or players who have learnt their trade elsewhere or lets name lots of Foreigners that were successful in the premiership while TOTALLY ignoring how almost all of those named took atleast 6months too look at where near premiership quality if not longer or infact never did.
The dutch setup is good for developing talent to a certain level but there is a point where playing in a weak league damages potential. You can only start to fulfil your potential by playing at a level that challenges you.
I have seen alot of Huntelaar and I am a fan but he isnt the player we need first. It does seem like we are after signing two new strikers and I would like him to be the second of the two along with a proven premiership striker so he could arrive without the presure of being expected to lead the team and given the time that all but a golden few foreign players have needed to adapt to the country, club and league
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