May 23
Some Sober Reflections
It’s hard to step back and look at the whole final without being tainted by the result. The temptation is to exult the good bits and ignore the bad bits, on the basis that it was all part of a masterplan. It’s also hard to give any new perspective, given the pages and pages of journalism on the subject. But I’m going to try – I’m going to give you two bits of hype that you should believe, and also four hard truths that we need to learn if we are to improve on what seems like perfection.
1. Believe the hype – 4-4-2
There weren’t many pundits who genuinely thought that we’d go in with a 4-4-2. “All about the midfield battle”, they pontificated, talking fluent cliche; “Chelsea are very physical and United will need numbers to combat that”. Having suffered through the Barca games and the loss at the Bridge, plenty of us also expected a 4-3-3 cum 4-5-1 to take the field.
There can be no doubt that we played an orthodox 4-4-2 for the whole first half, and that it worked superbly. Not least because it was a total tactical wrong ‘un, which it took Grant until half time to figure out. Carrick and Scholes were 15 yards deeper than Lampard and Ballack expected, so they had an extra touch or two to dictate the play. Our strongest player homed in on their most vulnerable. Makalele had no floating players to track, and so was comparatively ineffective. Cashley’s incursions were limited by Hargreaves, helping Brown to tuck and and deal with the central threat.
But the extra stroke of genius, what turned it from an interesting ploy into a potentially match-winning gambit, was the use of Hargreaves. When the teams were announced, literally everybody took it as proof that we were playing 4-3-3. Hargo’s been better going forward recently, but nobody has him down as a right winger. He was to be the screen – after all, that’s what he was bought for. So Chelsea would have focussed their last minute team talks on re-inforcing their strategy against 4-3-3, and a slight surprise was turned into a brutal curveball. It took them fully 45 minutes to recover; by that time, we should have had the match wrapped up.
2. Hard truth – Rooney and Tevez aren’t ruthless enough
This doesn’t matter in many matches, but it does in the really huge games. You don’t get many chances, and you have to be able to take a very high percentage of them against the very best teams to stand a chance. Ronaldo, nominally a winger, had one chance and put it away – that’s been the story of his season, what has turned 25 into 42.
I’m afraid Rooney and, in particular, Tevez aren’t doing that. They have each scored a decent number of goals, but not as many as they should have done in a team of this creative potential. In the final, Rooney didn’t have a single shot on goal – extraordinary for your centre-forward, however selfless. Tevez did – he should have scored twice in the first half, and in the second half he wasted a couple of decent positions by trying to beat the best most orange keeper in the world at his near post.
We need that Huntelaar type of figure – the predator who converts the great moves – to maximise our chances of retaining the European Cup.
3. Hard truth – Edwin van der Saar
Just as for Jerzy Dudek, the last penalty hero in a CL final, so it must be for EVDS. He has been struggling of late, with dodgy kicks and the odd flap at a high ball. It was extraordinary to see Fergie instruct his team at Stamford Bridge not to pass back to EVDS, and there were a couple of examples of that in the final where Vida tamely put balls out for throw-ins rather than trying to re-cycle the ball through his keeper. Nor is this fading towards the end of the season a first – it was the same last time round.
I don’t blame him for the slip for the first goal, since he was going for the first deflection and had to change again for the second. But when he slipped in the second half as Essien approached, that could have cost us the game – if Essien’s shot had been on target at all, it would have gone in.
We have a ready-made replacement in Ben Foster, and this is the ideal time to blood him. He has one of the most experienced keepers in the world on the training pitch, and the most secure back four in recent history in front of him.
4. Believe the hype – Nemanja Vidic
People have talked about the contribution of our stingy defence, but Vida was truly massive in this game. I don’t think there’s anyone better (and I’m including England’s Bottling John Terry, or England’s Bawling John Terry*, as you prefer) at dealing with a physical centre-forward. He had Drogba in his pocket for almost the whole night, so that Drogba’s only contributions came when he dropped out into midfield territory (the shot which hit the post) or out wide onto Evra in the air.
Bear in mind that Rio struggled through half of the game with mystery cramp, and you see the true achievement in containing Chelsea’s attacking threat. It’s no accident that Drogba targeted Vida for that girlie-slap – he was taking out his frustrations on the man who had shut him out of the final.
* For those not familiar with the Fiver, Terry is sarcastically nicknamed England’s Brave John Terry (EBJT) for his tedious self-portrayal as the indestructible, tough but ultimately good bloke.
5. Hard truth – substitutions
It’s been a long time since we’ve had such a strong bench, and Fergie needs to remember how to use it. One of the things that Mourinho was best at for Chelsea was recognising before anyone else did that things weren’t working, and acting decisively to change it.
It is only recently that we have had a full bench of geniune first team players to choose from. We were in serious danger of being over-run in the second half, when the 4-4-2 gambit had been recognised and dealt with. If Fergie had really been on top of his game, Scholes would have come off after 60 minutes and been replaced by Anderson, whose energy and combative spirit would have been very welcome as Chelsea began to move through the gears. At the same time, we should have reverted to the more logical 4-3-3, and freed Ronaldo from the responsibility of tracking the marauding Essien. The sentimental use of Ryan Giggs could have been saved for later.
If you want an example of the benefits of decisive subsitutions, look at the Arsenal game where Tevez and Anderson replaced Park and Scholes after 55 mins, and changed the game – we came from behind to win 2-1. More of this, please, Fergie, and less dithering.
6. Hard truth – Ronaldo as penalty-taker
That penalty miss must mark the end of Ronaldo’s stint as United’s first choice penalty taker. Whilst he has scored some high-pressure penalties (again, at Arsenal, for example), he missed three last season. Three is way too many – one is about the acceptable limit.
And think which penalties they were. First, to put the away game at West Ham out of sight – we went on to lose, and those three points would have been invaluable at end of the season. Second, in the first few minutes of the epic Barca tie – the whole tone of the tie would have been different if we had effectively started with a lead. Last, but not least, the one in the final.
Each could have cost us dear, none did. Let’s not push our luck, and give someone else the honour.
Right, that’s it. I’m going back to glorious celebrations, random chanting and myopic idolisation now. If you can step back from the hype, though, let’s hear your thoughts in the comment.
Related items from Red Rants:
- CHAMPIONEEEESSSSSS! YESSSSS!
- Some Love For Saha | Ole on Current Squad | Tevez
- Sports Direct, Hillsborough and fan behaviour
- Familiar guff from Messi, and a word on England fans/Rooney
Tags: UEFA Champions' League
Opti (541)
Stephen (485)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
Dan; I’m asking you to back up your opinions with facts and a decent argument. I don’t care about changing your opinion. So tell me, since Rooney’s goalscoring record is better than Zola’s and Bergkamp’s, is he a better player?
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[Dan]
Why is it that when someone argues with you with a reasoning do you have to get pissed off and hit back?
He’s making an argument, you don’t have to hit back and say “I don’t care”. He didn’t attack you did he?
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[Dan]
And clearly Conor is not trying to change your opinion. He is reasoning with you, which is entirely different.
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Conor, I know you weren’t saying you didn’t like Tev mate!. I mentioned 30+ a season but I said for a TOP striker, or those considered to be PROLIFIC!. Perhaps that’s the word I should have used. My main point I was trying to get across Conor, was that if we have two strikers like Tev and Roon who get up to 20 a season each, that is equivelant to having a 30+ prolific striker, like Ronnie at present, and Ruud, Henry or Torres. As goal difference becomes more and more of a possible decider of separating the 4 top teams, then I know they want players who can bag plenty of them. So to answer you question, that’s why goals do matter!.
Dan(u-ol), I hear you mate. But I think Rooney’s form has been effected by his injuries this season. However, I would concede that he has missed a lot of one on ones with the keeper, and over-elaborated in other of his attempts on goal. I do believe his goalscoring form will return though Dan, and to be honest, HE NEEDS TO PLAY IN HIS RIGHT POSITION FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. Always been played out of his natural habitat has not helped him. I have a feeling he won’t disappoint you this next season Dan. But I can see why you love Apache Tev. I love him too. Tev, Nani, Hargo and Rio are my faves, with Vid and Brown closely near them LOL!.
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Just to interject here for a sec…any news on the right back position?
I also wish we could get a lot more forward fluency on the right wing…like we get on the left when Ronaldo and Evra play together…they seem much more potent there…if that makes any sense.
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Hey guys forget roon’s problems Sir Alex might have a plan so lets just leave that there.by the way
the City council has denied us a parade This blows and they are stating the Rangers fan’s misbehaviour earlier as
the reason not to hold a parade in Manchester.Well this is Horseshit and I am Sure all the officials
support frickin man city they just frickin cant stand our sucess even after sinatra spent all that
frickin money bloody assholes.Cops are full of shit man…
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Conor, with respect to your comparison of Rooney with Cantona and Bergkamp, I quite agree with your point.
But still Cantona and Bergkamp had a much bigger footballing brain, meaning that dangerous actions would rarely peter out if possession was with them. If Rooney can develop his brain, i.e. playing in triangles, one deft dribble/touch to eliminate marker and immediately shoot or provide an assist, then he would reach the level of these all time greats. Clearly this season, he has not done that. But, we all know he has the necessary skills to develop that.
Oh, and you guys forget about Rooney imprving in the summer what with his forthcoming marriage! Most probably he’ll put on a few kilos before the start of pre-season!
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Nico; I know that, I don’t expect Rooney to ever have the footballing brain of King Eric or Bergkamp, some of the goals they scored were class personified. I was just trying to point out that even some of the best players are not prolific.
Craig; I understand now, and I full agree. I’d be perfectly happy to have a Huntelaar or Gomez or whoever if they were willing to accept that they would need to establish themselves rather than walk right into the team, like Eto’o probably would. Goals are the most important thing in football, but they are not the be all and end all, I think it is clear we both realise that.
Finally, Evra is not one of your favourites?
The thing about our team is that there are so many likeable players, unlike Chelsea who are definitely full of people who are easily to dislike.
On this subject, Vidic recently had an interview and he seems like a really genuine person, never mind the fact he is an absolute monster. I would give him my MOTM in the Champions League final for a display which should tell the world he is definitely on his way to becoming one of the best defenders in Europe.
Dan; I’m sorry if you think I am trying to make an argument out of nothing, but if you look at Craig and Nico and pretty much everyone else here, they expand on their points. When you do you make a pretty damn good argument, it makes it easier to understand where you are coming from.
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i already have expanded on my points though, i respect your view but im still going to say tevez is better.
Craig, ok injury has effected rooney, but not having a break from football since 2004 must have effects to, and this is his first full season in english football to, next season tevez will be even better, with a proper rest, and a season and a half worth of english football experience under his belt.
conor sorry mate for accusing you like that, im having to deal with a very stressful family row right now and utd is one of the only good things right now, take no notice of it.
But im still going to say tevez is better.
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Some more Terry laughs — and from an Arsenal blog too — in this link, open the audio link at the end of the post (click play button) and somewhere in the beginning of it (about the one minute mark)
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Dan; No worries, no need to apologize on this blog to me, ever. I take everything here in a light hearted way, and it just makes things even better since we have just won the league.
Red Ranter;
I’ve been on that blog a few times and I’ve already subscribed to his podcast, the blogger is a funny character I must say. It happens at the 1:21 minute mark.
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I listen regularly to his podcast (Arsecasts) because the guy is funny. If you ignore the bias, it’s very entertaining.
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It was funny RR but going there and listening to his blog felt like walking in and accidentally ordering a drink in a gay bar. It just felt wrong.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOmd2ChXLbc
‘Average premier league striker’
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[Grognard]
As I said, if you ignore the bias he’s pretty funny. Especially considering the various funny segments on his podcast.
That said I do listen to different podcasts and read a wide variety of blogs for perspective.
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Conor – Evra is ok, in fact all United players are!. But if everyone on this blog was asked to do a questionaire on who their fave players in the team were and why, I think it would be colourful and interesting to hear what draws us to certain people in life and not to others!. The characteristics that draw us out to other people differs mightily with each of us. What do I love about my fave players?. Apache Tev – big heart, combatant, winning mentality but controls his aggression not mixing it with oppenents or officials. Nani – is shy really, and so desperate to be loved and accepted by the fans, as he sees his friends Ronnie and Andi are!. Something makes me want to champion his cause always. Rio is maturing so much into responsibility for his and the teams karma whilst on the field. Hargo is just such a decent person, another combatant and winner who gives his all, but fights fairly. Those are just a few of the things that draw me to these players in particular, but everybody has their own faves, and their own reasons for loving them. Who are your faves Conor, obv Evra is one of them – right?
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Red Ranter I can’t compare Rooney to Cantona they are both great players and they are both TOP players in terms of technique. But I DO LOVE THE CURLING OF THE BALL. It means perfect striking ability -both on shooting and passing- and maybe better than Cantona’s . ROONEY NEVER TAKES THE FREE ROLE CANTONA DID. WHEN HE DID THEN HE DID THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihbbX7D2_4
He should begin as an attacking midfielder/shadow striker
BUT SAF KNOWS BETTER I GUESS. Maybe he is in love with Ronaldo and Queiroz…Anyway,ROONEY IS NOT AN “IN THE BOX” LONE STRIKER
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Craig; You make a fair point. I like Hargreaves, Evra and Tevez for their enthusiasm and Rooney for his impact on the team
Evra is the one for me though. He appreciates our club’s history, he seems like a decent person, he never stops running and he doesn’t fail to excite me. Plus, he just gets better and better every day.
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all this rooney playing his preferred position talk is non-sense, if any of you havent seen the many interviews he has had this season, leading Striker IS his favoured position. hes said it time and time again that he enjoys playing in that position more than anywhere else
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Mike, I don’t think people were debating Roon’s PREFERRED position, but the position he seems to be best at, which is not an out and out striker im my honest opinion. He appears to play better just behing the main striker. He may enoy the main striker as his favoured position, and doesn’t complain wherever Fergie plays him, but in most fans eyes he does seem to play better just off a main striker.
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And a final word from me about the whole issue of respecting Chelsea. I just thought briefly about players in Chelsea that I would consider players of some integrity (and hence would respect): I can’t think beyond Essien and Cech.
Goes to show how despicable they really are. Sorry, I can’t have any sympathy for them.
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Red Ranter; Totally agree.
Mike; In a question and answer interview this is what Rooney said:
Q What is your favourite position, if you were going to pick the team yourself?
A “I don’t know to be honest. Obviously I’m not going to be picking the England team, that’s down to the manager and wherever he wants me to play I’ll play.â€
He has always been happy to play wherever he is asked, and he doesn’t quite know where his best position is. His willingness is a benefit and a disadvantage for him and us both.
Source
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Conor, Evra is into knowing and caring about United history yes!. He is not the usual stereotype footballer. He is a thinking, caring dude seemingly. I was watching his post CL final interview earlier on MUTV, and he was saying that he wanted to dedicate the win to Prince Albert and his team mates from his Monaco time. Apparently Prince Albert had asked him when Monaco were in the CL final to win it in memory of Prince Ranier. Evra was very sad they lost the game, and he couldn’t honour the Prince Ranier. He also said that if United has not won, then he would have felt himself an unlucky black cat, and would have asked Fergie not to play him in any other CL finals. So yeah, deep, deep thinker and very sensitive guy. The kind if we went down the pub with, he would get all philosophical by the end of the night lol!.
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[Craig]
He’s also mad. But in a funny way
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RR i wouldn’t venture so far as to include essien in that list even though he’s definitely a united fan…flopping bastard that he is…
http://tribalfootball.com/comments.php?id=94438
go here and let out more of your joyful ire on those disgraceful scavenging madrid cunts who are intent on distracting from this, our most happy of occasions…im daddy on the forum btw..
yes i know its a crap website, tribal, but its really addictive….it is ///:)
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Haha – that too Red Ranter!.
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why the infighting? one would think we just went out in the group stages…enjoy …dan et connor….
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Call me knipicky but I’m feeling great!
Short term memory lasts between 20 and 100 seconds (depending on which type of memory). Just though you might like to know that you have bad long term memory, though I doubt that is the case either. You do remember where you live don’t you? You just do not pay as much attention to football as you do to some other things. Yea, I just finished a psych class!!
Also, I like Rooney more than Cantona. For me Rooney, next to Shearer, Giggs and 20LE is one of the players that deserves the upmost respect from just about everybody.
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[nagraj]
sorry mate but tribal football, to me, represents everything that’s evil and wrong about football reporting.
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RR; I totally agree about not being able to respect any of the players on Chelsea other than Essien and Cech. My favorite player because of my long ties to German football is Michael Ballack. I could kick the shit out of the kraut bastard for his two goals a month ago and for his whining and poor sportsmanship in the final. He is better than that and has conducted himself with more dignity when he plays for his national team and for the German sides he has dressed for. Something happens to footballers when they join that culture at Chelsea. They lose proper perspective on things and it’s like a kid joining a neighborhood gang in LA and deciding to wear colors. All of sudden sanity , class, good taste and tact is thrown out the window. It’s really sad what a pathetic and sad bunch of assholes they have all become. All I can say is in their corporate pyramid the shit flows downward from the top. Having billions can’t buy you class.
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Talk about divine intervention. Are any of you aware the when John Terry took that penalty it was Thursday morning May 22nd. That happened during George Best’s birthday. TRULY AWESOME! I guess you can say the same for Giggsy’s kick and Sulk’s miss. Georgie Best was watching over all of us and I for one thank him.
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guys
we should be mindful of one thing at least. We had 4 additions to our squad this year in OH, Andy, Nani and Tevez and still we won double. I say still bcoz most of them (3/4) are quite young players and usually it takes time for players to come to new team and bed-in with others. I guess this year was kind of a transition time with rerpect to building a new team and next year we should see how good everyone really is. Tevez and rooney showed flashes of brilliance playing together few times this season. I guess this understanding will only get stronger and we should see more of it next year (if they are played together). Similarly for Andy and Nani. This was first season for them in England and they have done quite well playing for the biggest club on earth. Next year they should be better. We can expect few more goals from both these players. I guess instead of a Huntelaar we should go for more experienced and pure goal scorer who can come off bench and stick in a few when needed (so a third choice striker instead of first choice). Trezeguet comes to my mind who can do this kind of job. He has 2-3 good years left in him and by that time we will know how good Manucho is!!! In 2-3 years we might go for someone like Benzema as well if he is not available this year.
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Grog – you seem to forget Ballack’s incessant diving in the 2006 World Cup…
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Ahmed; As long as we can all say we are Ronaldo fans I think we have to give diving a pass. It’s at epidemic proportions and every team has players who are guilty of it. Ballack has never been a serial diver although he did perform a few 9.5′s at the World Cup. I love Juergen Klinsmann but he was one of the worst divers ever. I’m not condoning it but I think it’s small potatoes compared to the antics of both Chelsea and Arsenal players when it comes to whining, intimidation of the refs and disgusting conduct during and after matches. And regarding Ballack once more, what I remember is how he along with Kahn carried a poor German side almost single handedly to the final in 2002. He’s a great player and the best header in the world. He just suffered some kind of blunt force trauma to that brain of his because there is no justifiable reason for him to betray his loyal fans by signing for the Satanic cult known as Chelsea. I may never totally forgive him for that one. Especially when he could have chosen United. A personal betrayal of epic proportions.
Jos; I don’t want a third choice starter. Penguin’s article clearly made the right assertion that our present two strikers are just not ruthless or physical enough to take us one step above where we are now. We won the double this and both were won by the skin of our teeth. Our competitors are going to retool and improve. If we stick with the present pair up front we will digress and be overtaken. We need a fresh look and more intimidating presence up front. This will also make Rooney as well as Ronaldo better players than they already are. Tevez is more useful as a spot starter and a super sub like Solskjaer.
Sorry to disagree but Trezeguet is the last striker I’d want on this club. No valid reason other than he is too old and I don’t like him. Oh yeah, he’s French. It took a while for me to warm up to Evra and as you know I have no love loss for Saha. It’s not racism, it’s just that I don’t care for the French players style of play in general. They are soft and instead should be baking croissants and drinking fine wine on the Left Bank. The only French players I have ever liked are of course King Cantona and Franck Ribery. I also thought Ginola was a great talent but he too was soft. I want Huntelaar or Gomez. I think our chances to get Klaas is 50/50 but Gomez is slim to none. The new van Nistelrooy is also a Dutchman and his name is Huntelaar. I’d break the bank to get him. I’ll be totally gutted if Real Madrid or any other big team swoop in and get him instead of us. Other than him, all we need is a replacement for Giggs. I still think Nani needs to be blooded slowly as he is very immature and selfish on the pitch. Add to the buying list a player like Arshavin and I think our search is complete. Unlike our competitors we don’t need to retool, we just need to tinker a bit and fine tune a well oiled machine.
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its great we won! the final was sandwiched between two of my papers so I was very busy. but still I watched it and it was absolutely brilliant. and It was great to see terry miss too, I have always felt he is an over-rated player.
But our squad is not perfect and now is the time to take remedial action and attract players we need. A striker must definitely be bought in who can finish our moves. we must have beat chelsea 3-0. we were lucky that tevez’s miss did not cost us. and chelsea did dominate the whole of second half. fergie must ensure this will not happen again.
and next season we have to take part in 7 competitions!
so we do need a large squad.
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Over the last couple of days I have been debating in my mind whether the European Cup winning team of 2008 is better than those of 1968 and 1999. I have also been debating about which was the best team out of the 94, 99 or 08 teams.
I can’t bring myself to say that the current team is the best at the moment. I think it has the potential to be the best but I think we are crying out for a clinical goal scoring striker in order to take some of the goal scoring weight off Ronaldo’s shoulders. If we had such a striker we would probably have been at least 2-0 up by half time on wednesday.
I also wonder how many of the current team could have walked in to the 1999 team. I think Ferdinand would walk in but I am even struggling to find a place for Ronaldo. After all Cole and Yorke scored reguarly and a lot of those goal were largely due to Beckham crosses.
Anyway, what do you all think?
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Just watched the post game celebrations again on mutv, and Anderson, for a Brazillian, he aint got no Feckin Samba rhythm lol. His dancing is shite!. Enjoyed himself though lol!.
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7 competitions next year? hope we dont have the usual FA cup vs world club c’ship conundrum…what did those thieving scouse have to do when they lucked out and won? was there any controversy surrounding them? nooooo…
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gaitherAnt; “I am even struggling to find a place for Ronaldo.” Are you serious mate? Really? Ronaldo is not good enough to be on your all time MU team? With all due respect to David Beckham who I am a big fan of, he couldn’t clean Ronaldo’s shorts. Still, I would place both of them on the team because Ronaldo isn’t really a conventional RMF. He plays all over the place so Beckham can cross balls to him on my team.
I’d place him as one of our three forwards in 4-3-3 or in a 4-4-2 because nobody comes close to him in the past 15 years other than RVN and especially Cantona. It’s not just the goals, it’s everything he does on the pitch and the room he creates for his teammates that makes him priceless.
MY ALL TIME MAN UTD PREM TEAM;
GK Schmeichel
RB Neville
CB Rio
CB Stam/Vidic tie
LB Evra
RMF Beckham
CMF Keane
AMF Cantona
LMF Giggs
ST van Nistelrooy
ST Ronaldo
SUB Scholes
SUB Irwin
SUB EVDS
SUB Solksjaer
SUB Hughes
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Saw this over at the Republik…couldn’t pass on posting it here.
Viva John Terry,
Viva John Terry,
Could have won the cup,
but he f*!ked it up,
Viva John Terry.
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This has to be joke of the season: “Real Madrid have conducted themselves exquisitely in this whole affair with Cristiano Ronaldo” – Calderon. Is the guy crazy?
Ronaldo would easily slot into my all time man utd team along with scholes, giggs, neville, rio and maybe vidic and evra
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Hargreaves for penalty taker, for sure. He has been training by Germans never to miss
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