Jan 04
Southampton v Man Utd FA Cup Match Thread
This will be short — and will serve more like a place holder for match related talk.
Southampton will be interesting opposition as — correct me if I’m wrong — it’s the first time we meet them after relegating them to the Championship for the first time in their Premier League history.
It’s a four o’clock kick off, UK time, which is a few hours from now and I can’t really say much about our opposition. I could make the stock statement here, about this being their cup final and them parking their bus in front of their goal. But I think we know all that already.
For us though, it’s not exactly a chance for us to find our attacking groove because Fergie will look to rest the stars ahead of next week’s clash against Chelsea. But then we also have a Carling Cup fixture in midweek against Derby County. It is quite possible that the manager plays some stars for this and some for midweek — but then again, we can play this guessing game all week. So I can’t really bring an informed analysis ahead of today’s game. I don’t know why I am not too excited by the prospect of today’s game.
Oh well…
What I want to talk about briefly, before leaving you to discuss about the match, is regarding media speculation on Tevez possibly moving. I see no quotes where Fergie actually says that he’ll leave so I’ll not jump the gun. However, what Fergie says in reality is this:
“We will just work our way through it and that’s all we can do. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, we will just have to move on. It’s unfortunate, but that’s life. Carlos wants to stay. He’s happy here. I think he’s actually said that to the players.”
While there is a non-committal tone to his words it’s not an admission. It’s quite similar to the Wes Brown situation where the player wanted to stay. I’m sure, if Tevez were to demand £125,000, he wouldn’t be getting it. [Something in the 90k region is as far as I would go -- considering the apparent value Fergie has placed on him; in terms of appearances he's made this season.]
I’m sure asking this question — should Tevez be allowed to leave? — will divide opinion equally among fans. And would love to hear your response. I’d want him as long as we don’t over pay. Even 32 million is steep in my opinion. As a player he’s a wonderful asset to the club, needless to say.
Right, I’m out. Over to you…
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v QPR: Preview
- Derby Man Utd: Live!
- Aston Villa v Manchester United: Preview/Match thread
Tags: Site News
January 4th, 2009 at 13:35
Tevez is undoubtedly world class…..I wasnt happy with his arrival in the first place as didnt feel he was what we needed @ the time. As good as he is he’s a luxury player when u know 100% Rooney will play as long as hi is fit.
Having said that whats done is done & Mr.Tevez has time after time proved his class….
Guess though the question is wether you think Welbeck and probably Manucho will be good enough to step up n fill Tevez boots nxt year?
cant see us buying another stiker any time soon!?
January 4th, 2009 at 14:24
you say “should he be allowed to leave,” its not up to us or even fergie at this moment. its up to tevez. to pay £32 mil, and then give the guy 125k a week to sit on the bench is ridiculous.
No is my answer, its time to build from our youth anyway. we can use that money and invest into our youth.
January 4th, 2009 at 14:58
I think this points to one thing…. Kun Aguero. 35m should do it. Watch this space.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:11
@R: i agree.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:45
I hope that today wi will score two or more goals!
Live streams from this match, passwords: 1500
January 4th, 2009 at 15:45
@R: Wont happen, as much as i’d like it to. Tevez is as good, if not better than Aguero and if we sign Aguero (or any other top striker for that matter) we’d just be back to square 1. The only way Aguero will move here is if Ronaldo leaves. I’d love to see Maxi Rodriguez play for us and I’ve said before that if Ronaldo left he would be the best replacement. Anyway, this football manager mindset just won’t happen and it’s naive to believe otherwise. When negotiating Tevez’s fee the club made a mess of it. Liverpool spent 23m on Mascherano (6m loan and 17m fee) so why didn’t we just point at that deal as our negotiating stance?
January 4th, 2009 at 15:47
@Liam: aguero is a much better striker then tevez. who ever told you different is messing with you.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:48
If tevez contract is not made permanent then i feel we need to give the likes of campbell and wellbeck a chance. If wellbeck especially never gets give his chnace then we may as well close the academy because no1 will ever get brought through. Look at barca and some of the players they have brought through in xavi, iniesta, valdes, ouyol and more recently pique, messi, fabregas & bojan. They have faith with their youngsters and move on the ones that arent needed.
I hope wellbeck starts 2day against southampton cos then u will all see how good he is.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:50
@Matthew: i dont need telling at all. ask any of the oldies on this blog, im a firm believer off developing youth. welbeck deserves a chance.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:02
@R:
I would love to see him in a United shirt but I doubt it’ll happen. Barcelona are rumoured to make a move this summer and the player himself has said that he’d love to link up with Messi and prefers staying in Spain. Atletico probably know they won’t be able to hang on to him much longer and selling him to Real’s biggest rivals for what will undoubtedly be a ridiculous figure should make them happy. If Fergie feels like spending that kind of cash on another striker, Benzema seems more likely to me.
On another note, it looks like Mourinho is still an annoying cunt:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/mourinho-says-vidic-and-rooney-should-be-banned-1221874.html
January 4th, 2009 at 16:15
dan(u-ol), i wasnt implying anything about you, sorry if you thought i was. Its just that alot of people on here always are saying that we cant give these players a chance because we dont know how good they will be. Well we can use games like today to see. How are they ever to impress if they never play. We have given ample games to the fletchers, osheas, eagles and richardsons of this world so now its time to give campbell, wellbeck, possebon their chance too. If they dont impress then fine they can go, but if they do impress we may have a couple of gems. I struggle to believe none of them will be good enough, with possebon and wellbeck certainly impressing me. I would start those 2 2day.
I have to say though that alot of the blame comes down to fergie for not trying out these youngsters. I bet you 2day he plays rooney and giggs behind him rather than starting wellbeck. Come on lets give these lads a game, i hope he starts but i somehow doubt it.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:16
@dan(u-ol): I am proud of our clubs history of blooding youngster, like Beckham, Giggs, Gillespie, Scholes, Neville, Chadwick and Butt back in the days. Now we have players like Evans, Rafael, Fabio, Campbell, Welbeck and Gibson. Possebon in a few yaers too maybe. I hope Welbeck plays today, and I hope we score more than once for a change. UNITED!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:16
vds
neville vidic evans oshea
nani carrick andy giggs
berba welbeck
January 4th, 2009 at 16:18
@Viz: is that official?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:20
@dan(u-ol): just annouced on mutv..
January 4th, 2009 at 16:21
cool so welbeck starts.
it’ll be interesting to see if berbatov is the main striker or if he drops off welbeck.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:22
If so thats a great squad. come on welbeck!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:26
Team news:
GK: Van Der Sar
RB: Neville
CB: Vidic
CB: Evans
LB: Oshea
RM: Nani
)
CM: Carrick
CM: Anderson(yeey
LM: Giggs
ST: Berbatov
ST: Welbeck
January 4th, 2009 at 16:26
subs: pig rooney park rafa gibson possebon fletcher
great management give some of the first teamers a rest before the chelski game…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:27
thank god wellbeck starts, dont really know where he will play tho, he usually plays as the front man so i guess berba will play behind even tho i think this isnt his best position but oh well. You guys just watch him go, this kid really is an excellent prospect and i hope he gets a goal or 2 to show his quality. Happy to also see nani get a game at long last.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:29
I like that team. Its the best midfield combination we have, of Andy and Carrick. I really hope Nani does well today, it will prove wether the arrival of Tosic get the wished effect. I hope he score/gets an assist, for his and for the teams sake. Welbeck starts, really happy aboput that. I believe in giving youngester a chance, and from what Ive seen from Welbeck he is the real deal. The last time United scored more than one goal in was against Stoke. Welbeck netted then.
Maybe its a sign, and I hope we score 5 again. 
Wishful thinking, maybe, but I am allowed to dream. United should play well today and we might see some goals flying in.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:30
giggs on the wing?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:32
New twist in Tevez saga! I think this is gonna continue for a looong time in the future.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:33
They are just doing the fa cup draw now and we have been drawn against spurs. We always get prem teams nearly every round.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
We get Spurs in the 4th round…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
@Matthew: home or away?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
man utd vs tottenham could play em up to 4 times this season!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
thats if we win today remember.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
RedDevilEddy, if we win 2day which we should we will play spurs at old trafford which is good cos im always confident in the home games.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
i think it’s a good draw we’re at home…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:41
Where is everyone going to be watching the match on the internet?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:48
Is it Christmas again? Nani and Anderson start! What the…
I’m officially excited, and great to see Wellbeck get a start too.
I smell goals today! Fingers crossed
Come on the lads, Andy to bag his first today, definately!
Peas out.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:52
pls upload a link for to watch the game..thanks
January 4th, 2009 at 16:53
anyone have a link to the game?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:53
@Sean: redlog.pl are streaming it I believe.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:54
http://www.ustream.tv/videoplayerpopup/channel/426291 [code=1500]
http://www.justin.tv/iraqgoals10/popout [code=1500]
http://www.justin.tv/iraqgoals12/popout [code=1500]
enjoy! top one is pretty good
January 4th, 2009 at 17:05
@m34ch: I managed to get the kick off before it went down … lol.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:09
here’s a sopcast link that works:
sop://broker.sopcast.com:3912/6816 = English
January 4th, 2009 at 17:10
nt working 4 me. any one else got a live stream
January 4th, 2009 at 17:14
berbatov is a god
January 4th, 2009 at 17:16
has anyone seen Welbeck’s left foot? It went missing in the box there.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:17
http://redlog.pl/2009/01/04/wideo-z-meczu-southampton-fc-manchester-united/
this one works for me
January 4th, 2009 at 17:20
NO HE IS GOD OMG
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
WELBECCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
welbeck, what a player!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
WELCOME BACK i mean WELBECK
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
Berbatov looks the business today. Yes! and we have been missing Nani’s corners. Really whips them in.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:25
@Liam: no, but i’ve seen his head though
January 4th, 2009 at 17:30
Welbeck has scored. I have to follow live text so it might be a bit behind.viva youth players
January 4th, 2009 at 17:32
It wasn’t exactly a great goal. Anyone would have scored it. He was lucky it wasn’t offside though. Berba is being given acres of space. O’Shea has been good too.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:35
Anderson has been rubbish btw.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:36
that must be evans first mistake of the season!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:36
@Liam:
tell me how?
January 4th, 2009 at 17:37
carrick should’ve scored. what a tasty goal that would have been.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:38
bit harsh for a red but just seen the replay he deserves the red!!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:39
10 vs 11. Cmon Man Utd, get your scoring boots on now.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:39
That would’ve broken a lesser mans leg!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:41
@Liam: probably some1 like cisse he broke both his legs from running!!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:42
@dan(u-ol): every time he gets it he either passes it back to the defense or tries a Hollywood through ball and loses it
January 4th, 2009 at 17:45
@Liam: well some of his passes have gone to sunderland, but some have gone to unite players.
what would you prefer, a player who tries Hollywood passes or a player that only passes it back/to the side?
January 4th, 2009 at 17:47
Why isnt Manucho on the bench, if Welbeck does need to come off?! He isn’t very likely to play Gibso and Posse, but Gibson/Posse and Manucho is possible.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:50
@dan(u-ol): well that’s pretty much what he’s done. He must’ve passed it to Evans about 10 times. He has only tried to be Hollywood a few times and it’s gone wrong. He seems to be playing it a lot safer than he usually does. That was a good run there but no end product.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:52
welbeck reminds me of henry
January 4th, 2009 at 17:54
@Liam: that was down to good defending.
welbeck was unlucky not to get a second.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:54
Pretty dull stuff – is Possebon ready?
That said, I love watching Carrick and Berbatov – really creative. Please score some goals.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:56
Unusually good stream in English:
http://booyatv.net:9999/;stream.nsv
Open in VLC player: File-Open Network Stream-Enter the above address at HTTP
January 4th, 2009 at 17:58
i would take off carrick for possebon. not that carrick is having a bad game, but anderson needs games under his belt.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:02
@magno: a quality stream, but very much not english!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:05
@Traverse: Brush up on your Italian at half time
Commentary is in English 
January 4th, 2009 at 18:07
I apologise, the half time show was in Italian, but english coms.. seriously good quality!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:10
should have let anderson take it
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
@magno: Great sound, no picture
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
9.8 for the finish of his portugese flick!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
little man nani with a smoooth penalty. riot please? Welbeck almost scored again!!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:12
@DB9: Have you opened it in VLC player?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:13
I didnt think Welbeck was this quick…that was a pen
January 4th, 2009 at 18:16
The guy doing the comms on sky sports Italy is the biggest mug I think I have ever heard talk about football, and I’ve heard Keegan talk.
Nothing was a penalty, the sending off wasn’t a sending off, its all the refs fault blah blah blah.
chump.
Now he has started on Evans not being a good player…..
January 4th, 2009 at 18:17
Agreed dan. With 11 against 10 men we can afford to take off a first team player and give youth a chance to shine. For once Ferguson has selected an appropriate team using a combination of the golden oldies, youth and first team players lacking match fitness such as Berba.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:17
@magno: Now working, awesome quality!!! Thanks.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:18
@Sean: Why isnt Manucho on the bench, if Welbeck does need to come off?! He isn’t very likely to play Gibso and Posse, but Gibson/Posse and Manucho is possible.
What do I know ay?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:19
@Traverse: Yeah, sometimes its better when you can only get Chinese commentary, how could the ref not give that penalty…
January 4th, 2009 at 18:20
@taehr: WTF, Anderson should have taken it? Taehr mi man, it would have been skied with Andie – sorry
. Little man – HE DID GOOD 
. I got the FLU bloody virus, my mate got my Southampton ticket. How upset am I, when mi Little man got his first game in what seems a bloody long time – sick.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:21
Good too see Possebon come on for giggs and get a big cheer, brilliant to see him back in action.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:39
what is gibson’s appeal? i haven’t seen him play before, but he’s not had one good touch today – given the ball away every time!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:42
Berba is enjoing on the field and is our main player this season alongside with our rocksolid difence… …Ronaldo is second choice in our play and that is so good becouse we have this extra dimension in our game with berbA….Pure class!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:44
@bildani: …and then scores. Isn’t it the way?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:46
Nani’s been very good today. Nice crosses and excellent skills. Shame he is such a pussy.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:48
I was about to make exactly the same comment about Gibson! Possebom have also been underwhelming so far. I hope he scores as well!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:52
nani is so selfish
January 4th, 2009 at 18:55
OK this is a total embarrassment. Yes you are reading correctly. I would like to know what this team needs to do to eliminate their ineptitude in making a telling pass in the 18 yard box and when they manage to do so, why we cannot seem to hit the net? Southampton is truly as terrible as advertised. They are awful and with one man down, we should be trying for double figures. But instead we are stuck with 3 goals as I write this. It has been years since United has had that kind of room to run with the ball and pass it. Sothy’s marking has been non-existent and yet, we find ways to lose the ball or make a meal of a great counterattacking break. I just don’t get it. Berbatov has had loads of space to run with the ball, and when he does, nobody follows him in support and gets into an advantageous position. I mean if we cannot destroy at tosser side like this, we must really ask whether we have what it takes to win the Prem and the CL. Personally we are just not up for the job this season. We are definitely the gang that cannot shoot straight and team that presses the panic button whenever they are in a position to do something. Also, I don’t know what is wrong with Johnny Evans today but if we were playing any team from the Prem, we would have been in trouble. It’s just fortunate that every time he has been burned, the Sothy players have made a mess of their chances.
I am a little perplexed and confused over the starting lineup against such an agricultural outfit. Why has Berbatov been played for the entire game? Does he not deserve a rest? Why was Rafael not given some experience playing in this game? And why was EVDS wasted against a team like this? Certainly playing Pig would have been beneficial to him as well as giving EVDS’s old legs a break. I am so tired of trying to find a comprehensible understanding to Fergie’s way of thinking this season. At least he had the common sense to play Anderson, Nani and then give Possebon and Gibson a chance. But please tell me why he did not play Welbeck for the full game and rest Berbatov when he brought on Rooney? Inquiring minds would like to know.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:57
@Craig Mc: Nani was pretty damned decent today however, he still needs to make better decisions in the box. Some of his passes were the wrong ones to make but he still showed some class and energy that was nice to see.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:58
seems welbeck is our only striker capable of scoring.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:59
nani showed that although frustrating, is a lot better then park!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
@Grognard: I know Grog, on 5 live who usually are majorly down on United, they were saying Nani has so much talent and artistry, and that if United worked with him on decision making, he would be well out there. Even moan-a-lot on 5 said that Nani worked the wide berth and side really well today. What I liked is he had the balls to take the penalty, which if he had missed, the lad would never had heard the last of United fan feckin grumbles. Go on Little Man
.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
Grognard Berbatov was playing because he missed all of the World Club Cup with a virus and needs games to get his fitness back. Welbeck got injured before halftime so maybe Fergie thought it was best to tae him off. I don’t understand the EVDS decision and I guess Neville was played because Fergie wants Neville to get games under his belt seeing as Neville was injured for a year.
Yeah we should have hit a cricket score against these boys but there seems to be something about us which refuses to be ruthless. I have fond memories of that game in Rome where after sewing the tie up after 20 minutes we continued to attack and attack and attack.
We made around a million chances and only scored 3. No wonder against better opposition when we only create half a dozen chances we fail to score any.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
@dan(u-ol): Its an insult to football that Park is preffered over Nani.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:04
Where is Fabio? I thought he is over the shoulder injury.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:06
Nani is still a disaster. Kieran Richardson used to look good against rubbish sides, too. Every time we play a scrub squad in the FA or Carling Cups all you Nani apologists come out of the woodwork singing his praises. Of course he does well against a 10-man, relegation bound, Championship side. He had about 11 seconds on the ball every touch. The wings were absolutely abandoned.
Anderson had what impact today? He’s a fine player, but I simply fail to see the difference he makes in the side. He’s a possession player, who is a decent tackler and a fine pacemaker. But aside from making the obvious 6 yard pass, he lacks vision at times and can completely disappear from matches. Plus, and not to beat a dead horse, he couldn’t find the net with GPS, a compass and a tour guide.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:06
Craig…remember the CL final? Grognard,he didnt rest Berbatov because he had plenty when the team was in Japan..Rafael will probably play Carling Cup and so will Welbeck, who was terrfic…
January 4th, 2009 at 19:08
Three cheers for nani… Not. But hey, lets sugar coat.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:09
@johnsom33: Exactly what are you pointing to? What has Nani done this season that is worthy of inclusion in the side against any club in the top half of the table? He is the consummate ball-stopper. He is a selfish player with absolutely regrettable decision-making ability. It is impossible for him to spend less than five seconds on the ball.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:10
@Grognard: Grog, I think its because we have a game on Wednesday against Derby and maybe he is going to give Welbeck another go in that. But 5 live were saying Welbeck had a knock, so that may be why. Also if Tev is back, maybe Rooney and Tev will be playing Wednesday, and not Berba. Berba has missed 2 or 3 games, so perhaps he needed the full game. He didn’t exactly have to put much energy in to tire him did he?.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:11
@Traverse: Is this the guy with a slightly squeaky voice? The same who said that Possebon and Gibson were unimpressive since they came on?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:11
Just a few things take out of todays game:
1. Giggs is past it. Sorry, he is a legend and all and i love the guy but he is definitely finished. He just looked lost and wasnt involved in hardly any of the action. It wasnt 1 of his worst performances to date but it is painful to watch him at times seeing how he is playing now to what he once was. He is now 35 and surely he himself must be noticing his performances have been very poor this year. Sorry, he is a legend and all but he must retire soon and let some1 else take over from him.
2. Anderson should always play with carrick over fletcher. We look so much more dangerous with these 2 in the midfield instead of it seems fergusons preffered pairing of carrick and fletcher. Its not new news that ando offers much more than fletcher but also as a pairing the ando carrick pairing looks excellent. Carrick in my opinion had a decent game today not his usual high standard but he still had 1 great opportunity which he should have scored and also a couple of half chances he maybe should have converted. Anderson was his usual self, running around spraying the passes and also should have scored early in the 1st half. We looked so much better in the middle of midfield with these 2 in it and i really hope ferguson isnt stupid and changed this because they to me are our best 2 pairing at the minute.
3. Wellbeck is just what we need and looks a super talent. I have been bigging up this kid for a year and if you look at his stats for the 1st team so far it reads, 2 games and 2 goals. Yes his goal 2day was a simple 1 and any1 would have scored it but it was good he was in the box anyway even tho he was offside. He stays upfront and doesnt drift back which makes him different from all our other strikers we have. As some1 else stated above he reminds me a bit of thierry henry, he has great pace, is tall (adding another option to his game), and i hope we see alot more of him in the 2nd half of the season.
These were the points i came to from watching the game 2day, but a very decent performance in the end and im also happy to see possebon getting a game.
bildani comment 84, i said this a couple of weeks ago and i got the usual crap that he worked hard and is young so we dont know how he will progress blah blah. Yes he scored 2day but i cant see what else he does. Ive got no problem with him playing in games like 2day when the game is already won but he is usually always on the bench every game including premier league games. He gets in the squad over possebon who i rate much higher. I think most people can see he isnt good enough, maybe he just gets played to raise his value so we can get more for him when we sell him?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:14
@95 If so, I want to insult football every time we play.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:15
@Grognard: I guess there’s no pleasing you Grog? Somehow, you are managing to put a downspin on a positive result…
This is a team that has scored 4 goals in it’s last 6 games and now they manage to score three in a game, they cannot even receive some deserved praise and recognition? You talk about destroying the ‘tosser’ side, well, Liverpool, Chelski and Arsenal all played ‘tosser’ sides and the results were respectively as follows: 2-0, 1-1, 3-1. Out of all those results, we had the most convincing win, both in chances, goals and dominance. Don’t know what you were expecting, it’s not common to see 6-0 drubbings of these lower sides in the cup as they usually save their all for the BIG teams and most times, it is actually harder to get past them.
You also complain about the line-up, maybe it’s because we have two more games this week with the latter being a clash with Chelski. Berbatov wil not play in the carling cup midweek, hence was given a full run out because he will then have a week to rest. Rafael looks to play in the carling cup and Gaz, like Berba has been given some match time and will have a week’s rest for Chelski. Same goes for VDS. Welbeck in all likelihood will feature in midweek so was taken off early so as to prevent burnout. It’s all about rotation mate, i’m sure you know that. Cheer up man, we have gotten thru and have a home tie in the nxt round, so all is looking gravy.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:16
Exactly right Patrick…i couldnt count how many times he failed to get past that championship ship right back…He tries so many stupid balls and when he should shoot he tries a pass…Hes now what 22 and still doesnt think straight..he looked good(to some) today because he was slighty better than usual..and we were playing a poor side with ten men…But wow Championship side or not Berbatov can pass!!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:19
@colver: Havta agree with your appraisal of things. And slowly but surely, Van der Sar has been looking more and more like his own self. Perhaps it takes to play him agaisnt such minnows, but I donh’t mind his inclusion.
For the first time in recent memory, I think that Fergie got his line-up and substitutions right.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:21
@100 never mind patrick, we still have our young iniesta and xavi aka possebon and gibson.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:23
@Grognard: VDS couldn’t have been more rested than playing between the pipes in a match like today’s. If the old man is beyond standing still for 90 minutes he should hang up the boots.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:31
About Nani (since it seems to be the favored topic today), paradoxically, I agree with most of what has been said: that he was dangerous and deserves his place in the stating line up in front of Park, but that he was also very frustrating in his decision making today. And that was not on the odd possession; on many times he had the ball he didn’t choose the right option to keep the danger alive.
This contrasts with Dimitar the fucking count Berbatov, who was hands doen our best player today; distilling passes of outrageous quality; heck I wish I was better at using superlatives here.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what the Tosic competition factor will affect LMN (c)Craig.
On another note, sorry Eddy but Anderson was abysmal in the first half, mainly due to his advanced AM positioning when it was clear we needed and enforcer. He was more like his old self in the 2nd half, though.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:34
Btw, Tevez has denied all that rubbish media speculation about his wages!! This is the problem I have with the media; they know they have the power to substantially sway people’s judgements and views, hence they should be responsible enough to print honest and unbiased news. I mean, that rubbish tevez ’salary demands’ story already even got some United fans questioning Tevez and putting him in their bad books. He was made to look greedy and mercenary in nature when it’s quite the opposite without him even sat down to start negotiations yet. I know we should all take journalism with a pinch of salt but isn’t the whole point of journalism to report factual news?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:35
@johnsom33: Its an insult to football that the more in- form player is chosen over the more talented but woefully out of form player??? Yes please, let this insult continue.
@Grognard: Maybe a 10-0 drubbing would have pleased you??? Seriously, its a cup, performance wise, we were great, goal difference don’t count here, as long as the match wasn’t a bore and we score enough to get us true. As for Berbatov, we needed some experience up front and he brought that since he’s played the least out of the 3. I agree with you on VDS though, I’m a little puzzled at Fergie’s decision to play him, I was expecting to see Kuszack or Foster.
@ROOOOONEY: Yes i’m thinking the same, kinda a mixture of Kanu and Henry.
@taehr: Lol, seriously??? We should let a player who is undoubtedly good but looks scared in front of goal take a pen??? Can you imagine how much more damage it’d do to his confidence if he misses?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:41
@Patrick: Moan, Moan, feckin moan, Nani was good today, end of
. If our strikers could get on the end of some of the corners he whipped in, we would have doubled our score – but alas. If you want to gripe mate, gripe about our strikers who once again missed so many chances. But personally speaking, I don’t think anyone should be griping today 
.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:45
@Grognard: couldn’t agree with you more, grognard. according to the beebs’s chris bevan at st mary’s: Manchester United have totally dominated and could probably have scored more goals had they felt like it.”
scored more goals had they felt like it?! little does he know that 3 goals is all we could muster against a 10 man team facing relegation in the championship, and that too after being gifted a goal (if not two)!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:48
@RD…yes!!!he didnt touch the ball in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE final extra time(thats much more pressure init?) final and he smashed the ball into the net..think of what it could have done for his confidence rather than not.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:49
@Rd: FFS, he didn’t play like a woefully out of form player today
. And this after not playing FOR HOW MANY GAMES, and having a further 7-10 days break with no training. The lad did good, but some can’t live with that. Another thing, why did our team send him up to take the penalty kick, because our strikers were shit scared they would miss. It was a well taking penalty, and like they said on 5 live, Nani would improve with any other team his decision making, because he would get REGULAR games. So I have no sympathy for you whiners – sorry.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:49
To any1 that reads my posts they will know that in the nani/park debate i am firmly in the nani camp but let me just talk a bit about both of them.
Park is your loveable energetic terrier kind of player. He pleases the fans because of his heart, loyalty, down to earth attitude and energy. These are all good attributes to have in the game, things that you could say some of the top players in the world do not do. I see park as an excellent squad player, he is something of a fan favourite in some parts because of all described above. I would have no problem playing him against chelsea in a week and against inter at the san siro because these are the games when you cannot go all out attacking or else you will just get killed down that side and could end up conceeding 3 goals.
The only problem with park is ability wise he is extremely average. He is probably top 10 standard but would be more suited getting into the everton team week in week out but because of his added attributes he finds himself in our squad. Put it this way, if he didnt have these attributes would he ever find himself anywhere near our squad, i doubt it. Park will get 6/7 out of 10 every game, will run around but he never has a sensational game, just a normal good game except barca last year where he was sensational.
Compare this to nani where yes he can be incredibly frustrating but he can also look world class. Arsenal 4-0 win in the cup last year comes to mind. When he plays well he is an excellent player and is much better than park ability wise i think every1 would agree. I agree tho the problem is he doesnt perform like this enough but he is a young player, and surely by getting a good run of games he will become more consistent wont he, how will benching him ever help.
As i said about park rating each game, nani is the opposite. His ratings will be different every week. Some games he may get 8/10, others probably closer to 4/10. For me however i would rather take the risk on a player who your not sure about and could produce something magical, over some1 who you know will just be like always in park. My point is with consecutive games comes consistency, if nani had played half the games park did he would be twice as good as he is now. If nani was to leave tomorrow there would be a line of 10 big clubs wanting his signiture, where as if park was allowed to leave there would be the odd english team like boro wanting him but mostly asian teams probably.
There is good and bad in both players but for me i would select the unpredictable yet sometimes magical nani over the same old same old try but no end product park.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:54
@Rd: Oh if only Rooney was another Henry – I’d love him to be as prolific, and I mean that sincerely, because he can do most other things. If his scoring ratio was the same as the rest of his game – he would win Ballon de whatever EVERY YEAR.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:01
@Matthew: Spurs, Arsenal and one or two Spanish clubs already want him. Wenger wanted him before we got him. I will always say the lad should move on elsewhere, because of the attitude of some of the so called United faithful toward him. Like they said on 5 today, the lad has so much to offer, but it is not being matured at United. If some of you don’t like that, complain to 5 live not me.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:05
Craig Mc, yep i know, i gotta say sometimes i feel some of the players we have would have progressed so much better had they been working under wenger, im not saying hes a better manager just that with certain players he can develop them much better.
I just cannot believe that park gets in the team ahead of him just because he trys hard and busts a gut for us. Well i could do that, i could run around and never complain when im not getting games so does that mean that i should be in the 1st team. It really is pathetic, have our standards slipped so bad that we put players in the 1st team because they try hard and run around alot. Nani could be world class if he was first team, park will never be. That sort of settles the argument.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:08
@Gabriel: Gabriel it is Tev’s camp that are lying mate. Fergie said on MUTV for everyone to hear, that they have been trying to get this deal sorted forever, and getting nowhere. He said that United may have to move on – so Tev is lying when he said they haven’t had contacts yet, or Fergie is LYING when he says they most definately have and for a while. Also United haven’t denied the wage demands as being untrue, so I will wait until they do, before I just take as truth what Tev’s lot are saying. The media can lie yes, but we all know players and especially their agents most assuredly can too.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:15
@Matthew: There are some games that Park does a really good job for United Matthew. His game against Barca in the OT leg was just superb. He bled for us that night, as did Tev. So they all have there merits mate. Some fans love watching the Park’s week in week out, others would love to watch and see the likes of the Nani’s brought on to all that they could be. That is not going to happen for Nani at OT though, I really believe that Matthew. The chanting and singing for Anderson today from the OT faithful, and really as Liam said, HE WASN’T ALL THAT. Pitiful really from the fans.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:22
Craig mc, yeah i get your point mate. I am a guy who likes to see us attacking from all sides but i also realise that you cant do that every game. Away from home against the top teams and in games where we may be on the back foot (europe especially) i would definitely start park. But it is just madness to play him in games like boro, sunderland and the like at home. It really is pathetic playing him in these games because we dont need the defensive side to our game in these matches so park really should make way for nani in these games. In the games i just spoke about above we only won 1-0, had nani started those 2 games we probably would have won much more. It is seeing the likes of the parks and fletchers of this world in those kind of home games that makes me wonder at times if fergie is going crazy like grognard has said in the past. That or maybe the lack of a class assistant.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:23
@Patrick: FFS, you should go and take a fucking good look at last seasons end of season review, and SEE the big games Nani either scored or made very good assists for us. Are you Nani haters feckin blind or what. Nani apologists my arse. If you want to see Nani not playing against what you call the lesser sides and doing good, then Fergie should put him in against the top sides as he did last season. He never let anyone down, and if you think he did, then you are blind/biased indeed.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:32
Jb,
, I apologise Bro, because I promised I would calm down the scraps a bit, but some people get my heckles feckin right up. I don’t want to get into a bollocking from RR, so I better cool it a bit. But I tell you mate, give me and a few Nani rallying United fans some time with the lad, and we would build his moral up so much, and encourage his talent, he would become a feckin world beater, just let some of us Salford lads get to him 
.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:38
Berba was amazing that whole game. Worked very hard. Evans was shaky. Anderson is terrrrrrrible, a disaster. Why do you guys like him so much?
January 4th, 2009 at 20:43
To put it simply, Nani has tremendously more upside than Park, and thus we should give him the games to cultivate it rather than settle w/ Park.
To put it simply, Nani is a THREAT. He is a shooter, he has great vision, puts in a great corner and the ability to beat his man. He is everything that you could ever want in a winger. How many of these skills does Park possess. I’ll give you some time to think about it…
*plays Jeopardy theme*
NONE! Park possesses none of these skills. It’s just that simple. Playing Park effectively cripples 1 half of the field attack-wise because he offers NOTHING in offense. It pains me to see the skills of Nani being wasted on the bench to the point where I’d almost rather him go to another team. Because it’s obvious that SAF idiotically prefers Park. And the signing of Tosic only confirms this.
I want the most dangerous side on the field possible. That means playing Nani and Anderson, players of true genius over Park and Fletch (although Fletch isnt that bad) for better or for worse.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:09
@MUFC Fan in America: Wish you were on Man Utd’s coaching staff mate. Guess some eyes see what some eyes don’t. Thing is though, should we be relying on our wingers to get a lot of goals?. I believe if Fergie gave the same input to Nani or Park as he does to Ronnie, then both of them could come on as goalscorers. I mean he pushed Ronnie to develop the goalscoring side of his game. Still, truth is, we don’t know what Fergie is saying or not saying, sooooooo
. All I know is Nani did good for us last year when he played more regularly. Some players need to play regularly to build up confidence and form. Others like Park can just come off the bench and with so much energy, can be seen to be more in the game. Berba often seems not to be in the game, but to the trained eye, what he does with the ball and off the ball is seen plainly. Thats life Bro.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:25
@MUFC Fan in America: i just had a thought…. suppose Ronaldo leaves in the summer… free place on the right wing… perfect for Nani right? so then leaves the Left free for Tosic and Park finally finds his place on the bench…. perhaps the signing of tosic isn’t to replace Nani, but to replace Ronaldo… but doing it this way, it means we don’t get ripped off by anyone when they know we have the money from ronaldo. and if ronaldo leaves it could have the same affect that henry leaving arse had… not the not winning one.. but the freeing up of the team play/goal scoring
January 4th, 2009 at 21:39
@Craig Mc: I meant Wellbeck not Rooney
@Craig Mc: My out of form comment wasn’t on todays game, he’s been off-form this season, he had a decent but not great game today, still showed why he’s so frustrating to watch cus he simply doesn’t have a footballing brain to go with the massive amount of talent he has and that has nothing to do with not playing regularly. I too hope he gets a run in the team for a while. And I have no problems with him taking the kick, with the players in the team, I wasn’t really expecting anyone else to.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:42
has anybody else noticed when andy plays, we score goals? he must be doing something right!
January 4th, 2009 at 21:45
PS: RR can do increase the time limit between when you post and when you’re allowed to edit?? I don’t seem to be able to edit comments after 30secs or something.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:50
@Rd: Thanks for that mate, but to be honest, you cannot really say that he has been off form this season, when he hasn’t played enough games, and the games he has played mate, were quite a few only sub appearances. Would you say Ronnie has a footballing brain Bro?, because I wouldn’t particularly, but he has unbelievable skill and accuracy at goalscoring. He would rather have a shot himself that pass it to someone in a much better position, because he has been so good, and has a taste for goals. Nani last season made some great decisive passes Rd, and therein got a really high assists ratio. I just watched him on sky news, scored the penalty and went running to the United fans, he just so much wants to be accepted and loved mate, and I feel it would help him tremendously if he was in fans hearts as the other portugeezers are. Shame he isn’t mate.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:19
@Patrick: A bit old now, but I remember Nani beating the shit out of Arsenal in last year’s FA cup. (I actually thought they were going to send somebody into him after his juggling tricks). Nani has skill, but way too much with the rolling around after fouls. Good to see him back in the side. I think he deserves (and will get) a run in the team.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:25
@dan(u-ol): Exactly! Finally someone else than me sees that. Except for the game against LDQ, we usually have scored 2 or more when Andy plays.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:27
@taehr: Fine, I would still not risk Berbatov or Rooney against a minnow like Southampton. Manucho should have come off the bench. By the way, weren’t they supposed to recall Frazier Campbell come January?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:34
@Gabriel: Perhaps it’s more a case of you please far too easily. Damn it, there is nothing wrong with wanting your team to play up to their potential. If so this should have been 7-0 or 8-0 result. Instead they had all the space in the world and still couldn’t find the back of the net. Nobody should wonder anymore why we can only manage a goal against Prem competition. This game should have had a very embarrassing scoreline which would have shown how dominating United were. The fact that you are pleased only accentuates my point about English football supporters having the tolerance to settle for trash over substance. Watch a Bundesliga game once in a while and see what you are missing. English football is grossly overrated and unattractive to watch. And when the flagship team can only score 3 frakken goals against a useless and completely incompetent opponents, then it’s time to examine things a little more closely and call a spade a spade. United is a team that has lots of style but no substance. Incredibly incapable of scoring goals at a rate that justifies their overall dominance.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:37
Im happy aboutt odays game. We finally scored more than a goal, and when youngsters also score it is only better. Gibson, Welbeck, Nani, the future of United I feel. We scored 3 goals today, even though we should have scored more. Carrick missed a big chance, Berba doesnt shoot when he is unmarked on 5 yards, Wazza had a marvellous volley after flicking the ball over defenders head, Nani missed a good chance and even Welbeck could have had more goals if not for the keeper. Even thoug Dannys goal was offside, its these margins that wins you games in the FA cup. Imagine us having this kind of luck against Pompey last year, then we would have won the cup for sure. Ronaldo would have gotten the penalty, Evras shot may have gone in and Johnson wouldnt have cleared off the line. Like Pompey did last season, we are already bound to win the cup. Weve got our name on it already! Luck win the cup, and I have proof! In 2005 we missed heaven knows how many chances, hit the post 3 times and sdhould have had a penalty for Laurens foul on Ronaldo. In 2006 we lost against Liverpool, but amybe we wouldnt if VDS had punched the ball out for a corner instead of in via the post. In 2007 we should have had a goal from Giggs, the ball was clearly inside and the ref didnt blow for a foul. Last season we all know what happend against Pompey.
But we can see that already from the first game we get the luck we need. We got a goal from an offside, the opposition got a red card(thank God Vida is okey!) and we scored from a really, really soft penalty. I am not saying that we didnt deserve to win today, Im jsut saying that we are getting the luck a winning team needs. Where was this against Arsenal or Liverpool in the league when we conceded soft goals(Liverpool) and missed tons of chances(Arsenal)? I think its time to be happy, even though I start school tomorrow. 
Ive enjoyed my holidays to an extent, and I hope this year will prove great for us all. May United to well in every competition, and I do well with footy, health and school. May 2009 be the best year in history!
January 4th, 2009 at 22:38
@Patrick: Still, it was a game against a very weak opponent. He should have had the day off and it would have been important to give PIG some playing time to keep him sharp, just in case EVDS does get injured in the near future.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:39
@Grognard: No, Frazier wont come back until the end of the season. Just fake reports from the media, Fergie is pleased with Welbeck, Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:44
so let me get this straight. Because Nani had a halfway decent game against a Championship side’s youth team he is suddenly the best player in the world? Park plays over Nani because he is a better player than Nani. I’m sorry if as I think Matthew said Nani having one ok game every 3 games and being rubbish the rest of the time isn’t what I want in a player. Maybe he should go to Arsenal because they are like that. If Park had played today he would have destroyed Southampton IMO. John O’Shea was making through balls from just outside the box. Where is his plaudits? Gibson, a CM made to play on the right was able to get into the box and score. I don’t think he is better than Anderson because of it(Anderson was rubbish today though). I’m sorry but you can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t put in the effort you get nowhere. Ronaldo for instance, doesn’t really have a great football brain. His talent is not natural, it was beaten into him by pushing himself to the limit so what he lacks in technical ability he makes up for with his sheer athleticism.
On Possebon, I don’t get why he is so highly rated. Every time I’ve seen him i’ve seen none of his supposed composure on the ball. He lost the ball today with his first touch and that is something I’ve seen him do in the past. So how come he is hailed as potentialy world class yet somebody like Gibson who puts in as good a level of performance if not better is dismissed as not being good enough. Gibson is an international player which is something I doubt Possebon will ever be able to achieve. For some reason people seem to give more slack to our Latin players than all the other nationalities. When Giggs or Neville loses the ball they are ‘past it’ but if Nani or Rafael loses it it’s ok because they have potential. I judge players on what I’ve seen from them, not what I might see if this happens or that happens. I’m sorry if that upsets some of the people who see Anderson and Nani as never doing anything when they are on the pitch. Tell me apart from rolling in a penalty what Nani did today to warrant being first choice?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:45
@bildani: Exactly. Well said. A ten man tosser side that was ripe picking and that should have been our bitch for the evening. For me it was more like a 1-0 game and I for one felt that we had more space to perform than I have seen in years. These guys were terrible at marking and we still couldn’t score at will. Man, is this team a broken entity offensively. We are clueless and even when we get a great scoring chance, we make a meal out of it. Just not satisfactory and completely unacceptable. Why? Because one can read and examine what the team’s major problems are from a game like this and then understand fully why we can’t score more than a goal against better competition. And it just doesn’t seem to be improving. It just seems hopeless right now because in twenty years I cannot recall the team going four months with such anemic offensive output. Maybe it’s not panic time because for the most part we are getting the results, but my question to Fergie is how long do we have to wait before this team explodes and plays up to their capabilities and potential?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:48
@Mountfort: I remember that Arsenal game too mate, unfortunately some of the Nani dissidents amongst United fans don’t
.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:50
@Matthew: I for one prefer a player who suffers from inconsistency but has moments of sheer brilliance over a player who is consistently average and offers nothing tangible to the team’s offensive ambitions. If Nani is 4/10 in a game at least he is trying to make things happen and in many cases may still set up a goal or score one. Park is always a 6/10 and does nothing to help the team in the attacking zone. He is the fifth defender on a team that doesn’t need a fifth defender. Give me Nani every game over Park. A LW player should not be concentrating on defensive duties over offensive duties ever. Park is rubbish and I for one am not easily seduced with work ethic and heart. Those factors speak loudly only when it’s clear a player lacks skill. Skill is what matters at that position and Park is a liability in attack.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:51
rooney was world class. he works hard no matter what the score is or who is playing. did you see him getting everyone going when their play was unacceptable? Berbatov was amazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing. he worked very hard throughout the whole game. Anderson is TERRIBLE. what do you guys like so much about him? he cant string a good pass together unless it is going backwards. i maybe saw one or two good passes out wide to nani, switching balls. he also missed about 20 to berbatov by at least a yard or two..
January 4th, 2009 at 22:52
Another thing is that yes Berba had a good passing game today. However, is it too much to ask from our 30m striker to have a good scoring game for once. There was 3 or 4 times in the game today where every other striker who costs 25m+ would have at least worked the keeper and probably scored and Berbatov manages to not even take a shot in these instances. Give me an Eto’o or Torres anyday
January 4th, 2009 at 22:55
@Liam: Are you fecking blind too Liam – Nani sent the corner onto the head of O’Shea like a guided missile to its intended target, and that brought the first goal. He stepped up to take the penalty, and that’s just for starters. But then, blind as blind can be will support the likes of our strikers who have been so feckin inept this season, that we are lucky to be where we are in the league. Grog is right about our strike force, especially the ones that you feckin love so much Liam.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:56
@dan(u-ol): its not because of anderson. no no no. have you seen his shooting? my grandmother is better at finishing. and his passes definitely arent the reason. hes had one all year to rooney.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: i stopped reding when you said park was a better player than…
park and “better player than” does not belong in the same sentance.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: i agree berba needs to be more selfish and shoot more. he does not do that at all. and he needs to have more games like today where he goes after it and wants to create everything rather than just sitting back until it gets to him to create something.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: No, and its not too much to ask our other 30 million striker Rooney either
. I would rather have Torres other than Rooney too sometimes.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@dan(u-ol): In truth Anderson didn’t have a great game today. Yes we scored 3 goals against a team that is second from the bottom one league below us. WOW! What an accomplishment? We were terrible in our finishing and chance creation. Just awful but nobody sees it that way because we won. Big Whoopie! We beat frakken Southampton by 3-0. Just awesome.
For me this game just made crystal clear the thoughts I have had all year long. Offensively we are the reincarnation of the Keystone Cops. We are painfully useless and inept. Thank God for our defense, although they sucked at times today also. Fortunately we were playing muppets who were even more inept offensively than us.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:58
@dan(u-ol): I like your humour Dan(u)ol
.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:58
Grognard, thank god you understand me. I would rather have a player who is unpredictable but can be absolutely sensational over a player who is consistently ok every game. If nani had played in all the games park had we would have probably scored an extra 10 goals minimum and nani would have improved greatly. Instead we play a player who contributes very little attacking wise and who is always the same, never excellent, never poor just always ok. That is not enough for me.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:59
@RedDevilEddy: Mate, today we scored only three goals against a pub side. I am personally embarrassed. Southampton looked awful and we still could not finish and break them down with a barrage of goals.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:00
@Liam: you really, really dont like berbatov. its now getting to a stage where it looks pathetic. you say this right, then you have tevez, a possible £32mill signing, who couldnt hit a barn door from 2 metres away! rooney is a 30mil striker and he’s hardly prolific is he? if you check your starts you’ll see berba is the one with more goals and assists.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:02
@Grognard: to call them a pub side is exaggerating it just a tad isnt it?
January 4th, 2009 at 23:06
@Liam: You are being far too critical of him due to losing the ball once. It’s not like Scholes has never lost the ball you know. Possebon was fine but the biggest problem is Fergie has him playing too far back. He has great offensive skills and touch but it’s hard for that to show when you are constantly playing in your own end. He is very composed and is a great distributor of the ball. Lets just be honest and say that you are not a fan of his style of football, not that he isn’t good. There are plenty of great players out there I don’t particularly care for. It’s all about personal taste and what your preferences are.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:07
@Craig Mc: No too many Nani fans keep bringing up the Arsenal game like that was the only time he ever showed his true skills and abilities. He had plenty of good games last season that one can remark on but it’s always the Arsenal game with most.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:12
@Matthew: Exactly. Sure Nani frustrates but even when he has had some poor games, out of nothing comes a moment of sheer brilliance that creates a great goal or at least an opportunity. And we know that in this game all it takes is one opportunity to be the decider. I would rather have Nani at 40% effectiveness than Park at 80%, frankly because a winger should not be on the field to defend and mop up, but to be a guiding force and a sharp knife that cuts through an opponent like butter. In that respect Park is a very dull table knife that gets bogged down halfway though a cube of butter.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:18
@dan(u-ol): It’s hard to hid one’s player bias and in that case I sympathize with Liam. Sure he is not a Berbatov fan and he has his reasons. Although I appreciate him, I’m not a big Tevez fan. What is important though is that when Tevez plays well, I am the first to acknowledge that and give him credit. Liam unfortunately cannot gather himself enough to admit when Berbatov plays well, simply because he has it in his mind that Berbatov was bought simply to score goals. Liam, you were mistaken. Fergie could have bought Huntelaar if that’s what he was looking for. No Berbatov was bought to emulate the role previously performed by one Eric Cantona. Look back at Cantona’s scoring record with United. Not exactly prolific but his presence on the pitch as well as his creativity and playmaking were legendary. That is what is demanded of Berbatov and although he has yet to reach Cantonesque levels of class, he has led the EPL in assists and still displays a silky and creative touch with the odd well taken goal.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:19
@dan(u-ol): Yes you are right Dan. Calling them a pub side is really a terrible insult and unfair knock on all pub sides in England.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:26
@Grognard: Damn, this is not an insult for you Grogs, but I just knew you were gonna say that!
January 4th, 2009 at 23:26
@Grognard: Think that was because we all loved that great bit of showboating Grog, that got the Arsenal players wanting to chop the legs off of him
.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:28
@Grognard: Well your right on that one Grog, there are some great PUB sides in Manchester area, and they are not averse to doing someone in who only calls them a pub side.
.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:29
@Grognard: you have said exactly what i was thinking
January 4th, 2009 at 23:41
Berbatov can hold a ball like no-one I’ve ever seen. He can pull a ball down out of the air as if it’s part of his leg. We’ve now got to capitalise on that by regularly bulging the old onion bag.
I thought Andy’s play was regularly restricted in the first half because of the positions Giggs was taking up. Giggs drops deep and slows play down, Andy tries to inject some pace and purpose from there.
I don’t think Gibson put one meaningful cross in from good positions on the right whereas Nani continually looked threatening on his wing and got his head up well today. I almost wish for an injury or two to get him a run in the team.
Possebon was caught early on in possession but adjusted to the pace of the game thereafter and looks technically good.
Welbeck is deceptively quick and looks confident. He was a handful for the Saints’ defence and Perry has always been a decent reader of the game.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:52
I can see similarities with Cantona in Berbatov but what I am waiting for is to Berbatov to help us win a BIG game with a bit of skill or a key goal. You cannot read too much into his performance today. I mean Tevez scored four against Blackburn who are a Premier League team! Similarly Berbatov’s fine scoring record is against Aalborg, Celtic, and a couple of newly promoted teams.
I want to see if Berbatov can become a big game player and score crucial goals for us the way Tevez did last season.
Also I agree that Nani should be playing ahead of Park in most of our games. I can understand why we might want to play Park in a big game when teams have good full backs who push forward. But against teams who come to us and defend we need Nani’s penetration.
I can understand the people who say Berbatov wasn’t bought to score goals but Rooney is not a goalscorer either and we are benching Tevez. When it comes to scoring goals we truly are a one man team and that man is Cristiano Ronaldo. Therefore teams realise to stop us scoring they just need to stop Ronaldo. I believe we need a multiple goal threat and at the moment we just do not have that.
Cantona was not a big scorer but he did score crucial goals. Berbatov hasn’t really done that for us this season so far and until he does as far as I am concerned the jury is out. Berbatov has also looked ordinary in the big games we’ve played.
I get the feeling for him to really weave his magic Berbatov needs space which he gets against weaker teams but doesn’t get in the big games. He has the control so there is no reason why he can’t be as successful in the big games, I just haven’t seen it yet.
So this is not a huge criticism of Berbatov but I do think if he is going to be the RIGHT player for Manchester United he needs to contribute more goals especially in big games
January 4th, 2009 at 23:53
@dan(u-ol): Thats because of my inspired intellectual properties and extreme wisdom.
Oh yes, and my humility too.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:58
@the three Rs: I can’t help but think that Tosic is going to help this team a great deal. As much as I like Nani, he has disappointed this season. Not all of it is his fault, but nevertheless, he has not lived up to his previous billing. Tosic has a lot of speed and skill with the ball. Add Ronaldo to the right side and that dual speed down the flanks with the ability on the ball and skill to deliver crosses, corners and free kicks can only make our offense more threatening. It will force less attention placed on Ronaldo because the player on the other side will be able to burn them too. I just hope he is the player I think he is and that he gets accustomed to our team and the English game soon. His influence has the potential to make the difference. Still, even with all that, this team needs to find it’s finishing now.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:02
@colver: “but what I am waiting for is to Berbatov to help us win a BIG game with a bit of skill or a key goal.” I’m sorry mate but did his play not win our last two Prem games? Every game is a big game when you are 7 points behind the leader. If we draw those games we would have been 11 points behind. Two losses and we are 13 points behind and done like dinner. His goal and assist in the last two games were massive contributions on a team that has been snake bit all season long. I think you are underestimating his contributions. Unfortunately all of us were hoping for a van Nistelrooy, and that’s just not what he is.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:07
@colver: “Cantona was not a big scorer but he did score crucial goals.” Again I sitting reading this with a bit of shock. Why? Because I remember so vividly the talk around Manchester media as well as the British media over the fact that as brilliant as Cantona was, he rarely showed up in a big cup game or especially in the Champions League. Yes he scored two penalties in one game in an FA Cup Final replay and he scored the winner on well taken half chance in another final but in general, his play was very mediocre in the finals and semi’s that he played in. A great player and my favorite United player of all time, but hardly a clutch performer in the classic sense.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:45
Right clearly since I’m just going to be mobbed everytime I make a comment that Grognard, Dan and Craig don’t agree with I’ll go with facts. Cantona in the league for us scored 64 goals in 143 appearances. That is nearly 1 goal every 2 games. Now I didn’t bother to check Berbatov’s so I’ll guess he played around 12 games to get his 3 goals. Cantona could produce something out of nothing to score but Berbatov seems to need a signpost just to take a shot. He got into some great positions that 9 times out of 10 a top striker would score and yet no shot.
@Matthew:yeah right we would’ve scored 10 more with Nani on the field. You just keep believing that
@dan(u-ol): I may be wrong but as far as I’m aware Rooney has more goals and similar assists to Berbatov
@dan(u-ol): wow that’s some argument
you’ve completely changed my views now. Park has played in 2 CL semi-finals and a world cup semi-final. Nani played in the 5th round of the FA Cup. Think next time before you speak as I think your mouth might be working faster than you’re brain. Nani is nothing until he achieves something. I know I’m going to get the ‘no talent’ comments again and ‘Park wouldn’t get into the other top 4 teams. Now let me think… I’d prefer him to Benayoun, Babel and Kuyt. I’d prefer him to Eboue and Ramsey so that’s 2 of the 3 and since Chelsea pay 15m for reserve players he wouldn’t get in there. But maybe it’s just me.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:48
@Grognard: Grog some people don’t see, or don’t care that a moment of magic from a Berbatov type player, that wins a game for you, and 3 points as opposed to one, is someone you want to have in your team. Like you said, those same people would have been whining like crazy if we had gone 11 points behind the leaders, as we would have without Berba’s very needed contribution. But hey, they will perhaps never see Grog
. Some folk would rather have the Rooney’s Parks and Adnersons who are the ever ready batteries of the team, but who would have only brought us the 2 points instead of 6. Not that I don’t think the ever ready batteries have their part to play, a team needs all different types of player.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:00
@Liam: Hummmmmm – didn’t Cantona take all the penalties though to score a lot of his goals – something Berba doesn’t do. I guess you would be one of those who whined about Teddy when he 1st came to us Liam, but he proved his worth in the end. Berba has already started proving his worth in my mind, getting us the vital points in our last two games to keep us up there with the leaders. If he keeps doing that he’ll do me. As for Nani, I can’t be arsed arguing with you anymore.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:06
@Liam: Why don’t you include Berbatov’s goals with Spurs to see that his goals per games played in the Prem is better than Cantona’s? But that wouldn’t suit your argument then right? Also, Berbatov’s goal production with an inferior team should put up all kinds of red flags and make you wonder if the problem is with him, or is it with United and the way he is being used? Hmmm!
Sorry Liam but the reason we disagree with you is because we think you are wrong. Not a problem really and not a big deal. Just our opinion really. God knows many think I am wrong constantly. As long as they don’t get abusive and insulting, I have no problem with it. So I think you are wrong about Berbatov but I do understand where you are coming from and why. Your expectation may have been wrongly fed. You were expecting a prolific goal scorer and unfortunately all you got was a play maker and decent goal scorer. So unfortunately you will have to live with it and hope that with time Berba changes your opinion. I doubt it though because I know how stubbornness over a player can taint your feelings about him. Hope you don’t feel like we are ganging up on you. We just disagree with you on this point. Not a big deal really.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:06
@dan(u-ol): But saying Tevez can’t hit a barn from 2 meters away isn’t?????????
January 5th, 2009 at 1:08
@Craig Mc: So true mate. Some people couldn’t recognize class if it bent down and bit them on the ass. Berbatov is class personified.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:10
@Craig Mc: Good one. Sheringham was a good addition. Very similar but far from prolific. A great player with touch, imagination and vision.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:45
@Grognard: Is all that crying and moaning really necessary? First, yeah the opposition wasn’t exactly Inter Milan but its the early rounds of the FA Cup ain’t it, so isn’t it expected to play lower quality sides? The task remains though, get the win and move on. And yet occasionally those lower sides pull some magic out of their asses and get results, ask Chelski and City about that.
Second, our squad wasn’t exactly the full first team. Missing starters included Evra, Rio, Rafa, Rooney, Ronaldo, Park (debate or not, he has been a regular)and you could even add Scholes to that list. So, over half the side.
Third, with that weird mixture of players who I would wager don’t spend all that much time playing together with that exact group as they have never done it in actual matches (first time with Welbeck and Berba up top) and like I said I doubt that group gets a lot of time together in training, they DID still create numerous chances. Their keeper made a string of fine saves that kept the score line respectable.
Fourth, and most importantly, maybe Fergie and the lads just didn’t feel the need to run up the score on a bunch of young lads working their asses off in front of their own fans? Yeah whatever you can talk about sending a message about blah blah blah and letting our rivals know we mean business, but really, if Chelski had won their match against a championship side 18-0 I wouldn’t give two shits. You think its any different for a professional footballer? Is super cunt John Terry going to shit himself if he saw we beat Southampton 15-0 so that he goes on to be so affected by that score line that he shows up to OT on sunday drunk and scores three own goals? I doubt it. It was 3 goals, a deserved lead, and we advance onward and upward towards another trophy. Step back off the ledge a little bit please….
January 5th, 2009 at 2:43
@Drew Vader: Hey Vader, happy new year Bro, where you been then? Not seen you around much
January 5th, 2009 at 2:56
Thanks man, happy holidays to you as well. And I still come by and read the the comments on a regular basis, but have just been a silent observer keeping my opinions to myself. Sometimes I’m too angry to properly express my frustration, and sometime I just think better of telling someone else to F off!! RR wouldn’t stand for it for very long.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:00
@Drew Vader: Drew mi man, I get you mate, but just come on and have a rant anyway, because this is red rants, and fans will always have STRONG views on our club, and different players who we like or don’t
. Perhaps we are not always fair in our assessments Drew, but hey thats fandom for you. 
.
By the way, Fergie is having a right rant in todays daily star re Berba and his contribution to United, and the surprise stats that show Berba RUNS more in a game than anyone else, and that includes Rooney he says. There is so much more comical stuff in his rant, you will have to read the Star mate, because he is non too happy with the Berba criticisers. But some of Fergie’s comments had me PMSL. Good amusing read Bro.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:33
This Park/Nani Debate – my two cents. I think park is prefered over Nani due to the presence of Rafael at RB who isnt the best defensively. If we had, say, Brown whose solid back there, I think Nani would be the preferred option but as it is, Park gets the edge cos he can help our young RB.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:38
ronaldo if he was fat and american
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7617650986559551054
i swear the resemblance is uncanny
January 5th, 2009 at 9:47
@Liam: 1) nani would have been our leading assists man had he not been injured last season and rooney taking him over. we WOULD have gotten at least 10 more goals because you see when your favourite player park gets in those good positions but fails with end product, nani would be scoring/making play in those positions.
2)
rooney berbatov
26 apps 19 apps
10 goals(from his spurt) 7 goals
4 assists 6 assists
berbatov has been more prolific in in both goals and assists.
3) wow so park got into the a world cup semi final with korea WOOOW, we should sign the whole team!why is carrick starting? he hasnt been in world cup final, we should sell him quickly! thank god we sold saha. i could go on but i think you get the picture. if you prefer park to babel you need your head checked.
so would park get into a team ahead of deco, cole(who is struggling to get into the chelsea team)malouda? lampard? babel? gerrard? reiera? walcot? van persie? nasri? to save you the time of actually thinking about, no.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:15
Grog- think its very unwise to assume Tosic is gonna waltz right into the team, replacing Nani just like that.
I mean Tosic is hardly an established player, hes way less proven than Nani!
I mean yeah he looks sweet, his left foot def looks special but none of us have actually seen him play a run of games!?
Hes coming from a weaker league than Nani did n has less caps for a far weaker footballing nation.
Dont get me wong sure Tosic will be a star but then so will Nani!
The boy Nani really gets a shit deal from the so called fans out there….
How can ppl use his sending off last yr as a reason to hate him!? i mean what player hasnt got sent off stupidly!???
The more i think bout it, despite his dip in form, Nani hasnt seen a lot of game time this season as Fergie is reigning him bk in a bit this season.
Last yr was his first season at the club. He was bought for the future yet he played 30 odd games, whilst as Dan mention, contributed significantly….maybe this is part of the reason we aint seen him much this yr?
ppl sayin Nani should be sold are fuckin mugs, im sorry.
Long live Nani, wing genius….watch this space.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:32
Player ratings:
EVDS – 7.5 – Looks to have his Mojo back. Dominated on crosses, great distribution. He and Rooney looked to be the only two players wanting more goals late in the game.
Gary – 7.0 – Easy game, but was not beaten on his side. Didn’t get forward much, but provided cover allowing both midfielders to roam.
Vida – 8.5 – Getting better every game. Controlled everything coming his way, and seemed to want a goal late on. Was getting well past the halfway line, which is a bit weird.
Evans – 6.0 – Not a good omen right before Chelski. His poor control/deliberate pull back wasn’t the only dangerous mistake he made. Got turned inside out by Ryan Smith who he should have forced wide rather than let him get to a great shooting position. His passing is also terrible. Hopefully just a blip, because he has been great to date.
O’Shea – 5.0 – I don’t get it. He’s slow, can’t cross, can’t control the ball, can’t pass, can’t tackle wingers and is only really useful in the air. So glad Evra is coming back soon. Very disappointed at his ‘progression’ as he did once looked a decent player.
Giggs – 4.0 – I get why you’d play him against a crap opposition, the logic being he’s less crap than them. Fergie was wrong. Clearly left his first, second and third touches up in Manchester. At least Fergie pulled him off for once. I mean, where was he playing anyway?
Nani – 6.5 – A funny one. I get both sides of the argument, but thought he was alright personally. He’s quicker than he looks, beat his man several times, got crosses in – fine we didn’t convert, but at least they came in. When was the last time someone remembers Park actually crossing the ball? Bottom line is that Nani is a winger, and comes with all the downsides of that. If we want to play with two wide men, he is one of the best two at our club. If we want to play condensed through the middle, Park is more useful. But why do that?
Carrick – 7.5 – The boy is class, and that shows up against lower teams. He and Berba were having a competition between themselves to see who could delicately slip by the most Southampton players without shooting. I don’t really know why they’d do that, but hey, if you can right?
Ando – 7.0 – Was excited to see him in a more forward role early in the game, but he quickly reminded me where he is best, which is in the backfield, providing energy and urgency, and the occasional good through ball. I’m really getting excited about his potential, once he calms down and a bit learns composure, he is going to be very, very good. Also paired well with Carrick.
Berbatov – 8.5 – I wanted to give him a 9, and would have had he managed 2 shots in the game. His control, skill and passing were some of the most fluid and clever I’ve seen since Zidane hung up his boots. And that’s the biggest compliment I can give a player. He was firmly an attacking midfielder, not a striker, but if he plays like that every game, I could care less.
Welbeck – 7.5 – He looked fine, and not out of place in our team. Or out of place against a pretty crap opposition. Promising, but if we had a match tomorrow I’d take Frazier Campbell.
Gibson/Possebon – 3.0 – They both ended the debate about which we should keep and who is more promising. Neither. Awful awful awful. No touch, no vision, no composure, no ambition. At least Gibson wasn’t playing his ‘natural’ role. Possebon was like Fletcher was 4 years ago, minus the grit and determination. I’m pretty sure Hargo in a wheel chair would provide more than either, so that’s our back up option after Scholes, Fletch, Carrick, Ando and this is how bad they were, Giggs.
Just a thought on today’s formation/style – we may have our solution to the Ronaldo issue. If he does leave this summer, and we start playing with wingers staying wide, it frees up space for Berbatov in the middle, and he was simply sublime there.
———————VDS——————–
–Rafa—-Rio——–Vida—-Evra—-
———Carrick——Ando/Hargo—-
—————-Berbatov——————
—Nani————————–Tosic—-
——————-Roon———————
(assuming Tosic doesn’t suck)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:35
@Drew Vader: Excuses…bloody excuses. This is what we have become, a bunch of excuse makers due to the inability of our team to score goals no matter what the lineup is. I for one am sick of it. How many excuses can we come up with this season. And when the season is over and we have won piss all, what will the next excuse be for that? No, I think I’ll cry and moan all I want thanks. Frankly, it’s my right and I honestly feel I am correct in my assertions. If you want to live in denial, that is your prerogative, just don’t expect me to look at a glass half full, when it looks half empty to me.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:41
@realred: Fergie will not be able to resist blooding the lad. He will give him several game to see what he’s got and frankly, one the player shows him what he’s got, it may be hard for him to resist playing him. I for one want to see more of Nani and I never want to see Park again and Giggs only as a late substitution from now on. And I for one do not want to see Nani sold however, I don’t see the lad putting up with yet one more player keeping him from starting. He’s got too much talent to sit on United’s bench for the rest of his career.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:54
…honestly grog, id rather see Park than Giggs. It pains me to watch him play these days! really pains me….when he is on the pitch u struggle to identify his position. He loses the ball morethan anyone in squad & when he mannages to keep the ball he fails to do anything with it!! infuriating.
it must be extremely hard coming to end of such an illustrius career but he needs to call it a day sometime soon………
January 5th, 2009 at 12:01
Happy New Years boys!
Park is not a world class footballer in any shape or form, but when we play the big four, or any top European side he is worth putting in only in Rafael plays as he gives the young lad cover, and also it allows Rafael to get forward. If we played Browm or Nev, then Nani or Whoever should certainly play, but Rafael is on a learning curve and with Park in it does protect him some what. Park is not my particular brand of Vodka but his worth is that if he allowa Rafael to develop then he is worth a game.
@Beachryan: Very harsh mate on Possebon and Gibson, at least give then a chance, I heard people say the same about Ronaldo when he first played, they are young and need game timehten surely we can judge.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:30
@ Stephen – Ronaldo was harshly judged because he tried audacious things, took shots when he should have passed and had ridiculously terrible hair.
Possebon and Gibson yesterday were incapable of making 10 yard square passes to open teammates, and control them as they came back. I know the pitch was a lil crap, but they were like sand in our engine. I’m happy to give them a chance, I was just utterly shocked how out of their depth they looked, in what really was the easiest 20 minutes of football they’ll ever get at United. Possebon in particular, people were talking about him being Scholes-esque – the boy didn’t play a single ball forward. I’m all for keeping it simple when you have to, but this was a chance to put on a show, and they showed absolutely nothing.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:43
@Beachryan: I agree to some degree mate, Gibson is 21 and is essentially British probably should be further on in his development, but he has done something that Anderson has never done and score.
Possebon is 19 and has come from another country and nees time to develop and adapt and maybe should be sent on loan, but he does remind me of Guti in some sort of way, and that isn’t good!
January 5th, 2009 at 12:59
@Stephen: Hey Stephen mi man, where you been Bro? Did you take off for the holidays
. Lucky you if you got away to warmer climates. I got the flu, and can’t get out at all 
, damn the English weather.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:03
@Grognard: Grog, I do love you mate when you talk like this
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:05
Beachryan, dont worry bout Possebon, he will mature into a fine fine player. His physical stature, n his playing posture/style says it all for me.
Hes shown already, to those that have been watchin, what a thunderous shot he has as well as being more than capeable in terms of passing & general play. His technique looks particularly solid to me.
Personaly i think he will end up as a defensive midfielder who will also provide goals for the team.
By the way our last 8 buys have been incredible in my books,
1 Anderson
2 Nani
3 Rafael
4 Fabio
5 Possebon
6 Berba
7 Tosic
8 Ljajic
January 5th, 2009 at 13:12
@Craig Mc: Missed you bro!! I have been in south Africa for a blast of sun matey, and my Blackberry was up the shoot!
@realred: Tosic and Ljajic incredible? Bit early for that and Possebon, Fabio certainly havn’t even played, in fact Nani and Anderson have only showed potential, although Nani looked good yesterday I thought.
Anderson to me is a falacy, people seem to be very blinkered to his contribution in my eyes, he has all the ability in the world and I like the lad don’t get me wrong, but people seem to over rate what he actually does.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:14
@realred: Errr Realred, there’s only me saying Nani would be better off being sold, and I said that because the lad needs regular first team football, so as not to regress. No way would I sell the lad if he was getting a fair deal at United to progress in the same way that Ronnie did, but ALAS. I don’t think anybody on the blog is saying he should be sold because he isn’t good enough. If they are, tell me who mate, and I will give em some
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:23
@Stephen: South Africa?, you jammy GIT Bro
. I’ll bet you lapped up the sunshine, and bet you didn’t think of us poor b’ards shivering to death here in blighty 
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:37
@Beachryan: Why are you so harsh on O’Shea? From where I was he was better than Anderson. He would’ve even set up a goal if Berbatov knew where it was. I don’t know if people now expect their full-backs to score 42 goals a season now as well as their wingers. I bet if O’Shea had Rafael on his back you’d be saying it was a masterclass in full back play.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:48
@ Realred – Think there’s some heavy optimism there about a few of those players. I mean Possebon does have a ripping long range shot, I’ve seen some reserve matches, but I expect him to get the basics right. I think all the talk of his technique partly comes down to where he’s from, and if he’d contributed identically yesterday but been from Scotland, we’d all hear how crap he is. Happy to give him time, he’s very young. As for Tosic and Ljajic – they’ve not even put on their jersey’s in earnest yet! Hardly sound buys! Maybe, sure, but who knows? Hargreaves was the best signing I’d heard about since Rooney, but he’ll barely have given us 30 games in two full seasons before maybe returning from surgery. Gotta wait to see worth IMO.
@ Liam – I’m harsh on O’Shea because I expect a quality performance from him. He’s not some inexperienced lad from Brasil, he’s been in our first team for donkeys years now. And he got regularly skinned by a second rate winger from the bottom of the championship. For me its more his first touch that infuriates – he gets down the wing and the winger/midfielder plays it to him, and about 2 minutes later he’s controlled it well enough to look up, by which time of course there are no good optiosn to him. Just seems that after 15 years of professional football training, he should be able to one-touch pass occasionally.
Dunno why I’m so grumpy with him, I think it’s just sadness at his limited development. He looked quality when he came through.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:57
appolagies lads, i meant to say in my last post how they were all great signings for the future. The point i was trying to make was how positive all the buys have been considering they are all very highly rated players. As far as i can see we are building an ‘incredible’ team for future seasons already
January 5th, 2009 at 14:11
After saturdays shaky showing of our defense against average opposition, I am praying Rio is fit and back for the Chelski game. This defence does worry me a little. Evans usually plays very well at OT, so I hope that is the case again, and does anyone know if Evra will be able to play this game? If they count the cup matches, which they have done for John Terry, then after the Derby game, won’t that be Evra’s ban over?
January 5th, 2009 at 14:12
Sorry guys, I meant sundays game, not saturday
,
January 5th, 2009 at 14:30
@Craig Mc: Evra mate is available, it was lovely by the way, and I missed you all!!
January 5th, 2009 at 14:36
@Beachryan: O’Shea was awful, probably not his fault as he has no left foot, can’t get forward, has no pace and clearly isn’t remotely a left back as much as EVDS is, and to be honest actually isn’t a very good footballer.
January 5th, 2009 at 14:45
@ Stephen – Yeah, kind of with you. Thank the lord Evra will be back, hopefully not too rusty (he did have the WCC a couple weeks back to keep fit).
Sunday will be all about which Drogba shows up. If it’s the Drogba that still rallies for big games, we’re in a spot of bother. If it’s the Drogba that can’t be asked because it’s cold and he’s away from home, we’ll be fine.
Either way it’ll be a great test for a our midfield. I’m guessing we’ll see a Carrick/Scholes/Fletcher combo, which to be honest is defense but probably necessary against the really quite good Lampard/Deco(or Ballack)/Mikel trio.
Still have Derby to get through, watched them on Saturday and they weren’t particularly good, but some decent striking. Awfffffull kits though, good lord.
January 5th, 2009 at 14:50
@Beachryan: I agree think we will have to pack the midfield, I would play 4-3-3 with Wazza and Ronnie either side of Berba, (or what I like to call RooBerRon, get it!!) who was the brilliant yesterday by the way.
But Park will start I think as he is the new love child a la Fletch/O’Shea of a few years back.
January 5th, 2009 at 15:15
RooBaLdo?
January 5th, 2009 at 15:19
@Traverse: You need a ber in there hence Rooberron!!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 15:40
Surely BerbaRoo is the greatest strike force name ever? (do like RooBeRon for the trio
)
January 5th, 2009 at 15:46
@Beachryan:Lets do the Roober!!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 16:15
Roonaltov?
January 5th, 2009 at 16:15
@Beachryan: I am not sure Drogba will play mate, he doesn’t seem to be very popular at the moment!
January 5th, 2009 at 16:33
@RedDevilEddy: Don’t fight Rooberron, allow it into your heart and and it will love you back.
January 5th, 2009 at 16:39
@Stephen: I might, but I really fany the word BerRooRon. Like a Baron?
Sounds good. Berooron. The Baron! 
January 5th, 2009 at 17:19
@ Stephen – They’d be stupid not to play him. Tit as Droggie is, Anelka doesn’t pose nearly the same individual threat. Which is fine against weaker teams, because Deco/Lampard/Kalou can be very offensive and take up defensive resources, but against us Chelsea will need the big man up front as their midfield will be covering.
Anyone else find Obi Mikel’s development interesting? If he’d signed with us (or rather, stayed with us) I’m determined he’d be a box to box, Keane/Essien type. Now he’s the new Makelele.
January 5th, 2009 at 17:47
@Beachryan: The only reason I see to play Anelka against us is that the enfesis is normally on the home team to attack the away side so it gives Chelsea more of a chance to counter, eg utilise Anelka pace in behind, but at Stamford Bridge teams play deeper so a, Anelka’s pace is not so needed, but b, they need a battering ram style player to create more chances for lets say Lampard to run onto.
Mikel is a liability, a booking/sending off waiting to happen amd getting £16m for him seems good business, but on a seperate note if Arteta is available for £8/10m then to me that is a really good buy.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:23
@realred: They are both useless but I would rather see Giggs out of respect and see Park go to another team. Frankly, I am quite sick and tired of listening to others BS about his value and contributions. They are free to support him as much as they want if all they demand from a winger or wide midfielder is plain white toast with nothing on it.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:27
@Craig Mc: That’s nice mate but I’m not giving you that reach around you crave. And tell the GF that we are not going steady, so she need not worry.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:30
@ Gronard – I’m somewhere in the middle on Park/Nani debate. I get both sides, and agree that Nani certainly has more potential to change a game. But the way we set up sometimes necessitates that the wide midfielders role is not just offensive, but their defensive responsiblities are emphasized too. And given that we know Ronaldo is far too important to ever backtrack (slightly tongue in cheek, I know his worth on the counter) it means the other side has to provide cover.
Personally I’d like to see Fergie make better use of subs to balance the situation. Start Nani, see how he gets on, and if we’re in the lead/he’s having one of those days, bring Park on.
Oh and stop Nani from diving so much. It’s embarassing. Vidic took a studs up challenge with a look of mild annoyance. Nani goes to ground and covers his face when an opposing player sneezes.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:38
@Beachryan: It’s personally very disturbing that we are automatically thinking our teams setup for Chelsea has to be defensive minded. Why? We are at home and we are the defending Double champions. Why should we fear them. More like they should fear us at OT.
I want to see a 4-4-2 with an attacking lineup and lets see if we can beat them by playing our style of football rather than conform to their game.
On that note, Fergie will go with the defensive cautious approach by starting a midfield which will include Fletcher and Park and the result will be a boring 0-0 or 1-1 draw.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:41
@Beachryan: United have always had a tradition of exciting wide players Best is obvious but Hill and Coppell ect were all attacking wingers, Park isn’t.
I see that he does “do a job” which is all well and good but the words not United and class come to mind. The only benefit is the protection of Rafeal which I can understand but he doesn’t get me off my seat and I like wingers to do that.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:45
@Beachryan: I totally agree with you. Start Nani , get a lead then bring Park on to defend that lead. But when you start Park, you completely derail your offense and so even if Nani comes in late in a game, he does so tied or behind in goals. Start Nani and go for the jugular.
Also, what’s wrong with playing Tosic? I remember that Ronaldo played immediately upon being purchased. What’s wrong with throwing or should I say tossing Tosic in late in the game for some experience? I’d love to see him make his debut vs Chelski
January 5th, 2009 at 18:47
@Grognard: Why not play Tosic on Wednesday? It is a micky mouse cup for starters and also well Derby at the moment are awful.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:54
@Stephen: Well putt mate. Protecting a fullback has never been the role of a winger throughout the history of United. Why are we now being saddled with such an offensive liability as Park? Sure he could play a role as a part time defensive substitute or even start the odd road game where we have to contain another teams wide star player (ie; Messi or Ribery), but to start him game after game and always play cautiously and without imagination is not the United way and personally, it’s making me sick to the stomach. I’ve been fed an overdose of JS Park and to be honest, I have never been a fan of Korean food. It’s time United’s manager woke up and started approaching the game the way he did before some Italian dude cornered him in a dark parking lot and read him the Serie A riot act. Start playing football again instead of this boring slow buildup football that creates numerous half chances but rarely puts opponents on their heels. And stop wasting good talent like Nani for useless one dimensional waste products like Park. Enough already.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:55
@ Grognard – I agree re: 442, Fergie used that to great affect in the CL final, and completely took them by surprise. However he may have played that hand now, guess we’ll see.
Has anyone heard any updates at all on Hargreaves? Did he have the second knee done? I know the surgeon broke his arm, just hoping it was after he’d sorted Owen out!
January 5th, 2009 at 18:56
@Stephen: I have no problem with that. It would be a good opportunity to see what he has. I’d still like to see him play against Chelsea though, even if it is only as a substitute.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:01
@Grognard: Well put also surely the goal drought could be put at Parks door also.
Ronaldo always tends to cut inside for a shot so he is not going to create many chances for our strikers, and Park well just runs around and looks busy. Carrick plays deep and if Fletcher plays, well see what I said about Park and that is exactly the same.
Our most creative winger is Nani, simple and yes he frustrating but aren’t most wingers? especially if thay have had little game time to create confidence, wingers are there to take people on so they will get tackled and make wrong decisions, but if they make more right then wrong then we will score more goals ans Nani has that ability given more game time.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:02
@Beachryan: This is from Hargreaves own site. Itappears his second operation is sometime this month.
“For me personally, it was a roller-coaster of a year. I’m currently in rehab following my knee surgery. In January the other knee will be operated and then I hope to finally be able to play pain-free again. Like every year I spend the holidays in Calgary with my family where I will try to get some rest and recharge my batteries for the new year.”
Just hope it goes as well as the first and that he comes back strong as ever next season. God he has been missed out there this season, that’s for sure. All the best Hargo
January 5th, 2009 at 19:05
@Stephen: To be honest and fair, Park did deliver a few good low crosses in his last game only to have Ronaldo and Rooney fan on them. When you are snake bit, even your good play turns out badly. The boy as well as the team seem to have little luck and what luck they do have is bad.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:14
Lots of places on the internet are saying we are sending £6million, with Possebon and Gibson on loan for the season to Leeds for Fabien Delph.
Not a bad deal for Leeds if Possebon and Gibson get Leeds promoted, and they’d do well for any of the current Championship teams, cause Delph is going to go eventually…
January 5th, 2009 at 19:21
I just read this little bit on BBC news.
“Arsenal could lose forward Theo Walcott on the cheap after dragging their feet over a new contract. (Daily Express)”
Just how cheap and would Fergie entertain going after him? Wenger probably would not sell him to us but Walcott is a player I would love to have on United. Great pace and skill and if used properly, a world of potential.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:35
@Grognard: Grog, Tosic hasn’t played since early december according to Fergie, and so he feels he is not match fit.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:44
@Grognard: Hahahahaha – Grog the GF says you don’t stand any chance against the Nani love
. I don’t think she’s worried at all though, except she’s planning the wedding, when I haven’t even proposed yet. Still I know she’s the one, so I’ll get to it. I just wish she liked sport though, and United, because like the Portugeezers, she wants to leave England for sunnier climates. Reckons the only thing keeping me here is my beloved United. She’s bitter Grog, BITTER 
.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:51
Grognard, i saw that earlier and i was wondering if we should put a bid in there just on the off chance. You never know, maybe he would love to come here, he has huge potential just needs to show it, could be a replacement for ronaldo. Think i read he could be available for £400k if i read it correctly.
Traverse, its probably just media crap linking us with every1. I know he has been linked with us a bit but i doubt its true. Plus fergie has already said that we are done with our january business already, although he has said things like this b4 and then gone out and brought some1 in.
What websites are reporting this anyway traverse?
January 5th, 2009 at 19:58
@Grognard: i wouldnt sell no at all. wit his pace, it would be the end of park. walcot has enough pace to be running up and down the wing all day. if he is available i say we get him.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:01
@Grognard:
His contract expires in less than six months. This means that under Bosman rules (if I understand correctly) other clubs are now allowed to offer the player a contract for next season. All that would have to be paid to Arsenal is a nominal fee for training costs (around £400k from what I hear). Here’s a full list of players in the same situation:
Michael Ballack, his contract hasn’t been renewed yet and he doesn’t seem happy at Chelsea. He is now available for official offers from other clubs for next season. Offer him a ridiculous paycheck and then offer Chelsea a fee to let him go immediately. Abramovic appears to have been hit hard by the credit crunch, so he’ll probably rather get some money for Ballack rather than having to let him go for free over the summer. For a full list of players in the same situation see:
http://www.mcalcio.com/expiring-contract-soccer-players-2009/
Quite a few surprises on there…
January 5th, 2009 at 20:01
@Craig Mc: she sounds like my mum
i would play tosic on a wednesday. the only way to get match fit is to play matches. its the CC and we’re against derby. perfect time to play him.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:11
Oops, ignore the Ballack bit, that was a City fan idly hoping they’ll sign anyone better than Bellamy
bit hasty copy/pasting the link there…
January 5th, 2009 at 20:17
@dan(u-ol): Which bit Dan(u)ol, the wedding bit, or taking off for sunnier climates?.
.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:29
@Craig Mc:
the wedding! im too young to get married anyway.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:02
@dan(u-ol): Oh
sorry mate, I thought we were talking about your mother. Now I’m confused!
January 5th, 2009 at 21:43
@Craig Mc: She is probably special but is she more valuable than United? Based on this season United would probably finish a distant second. Especially considering last season when she probably received sloppy seconds from you. God I remember when I was attached (I called it whipped), no team ruled over my gal. But I’m better now.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:46
@dan(u-ol): Walcott won’t cost as much but the problem is whether Arsenal would even consider selling him to a heated rival? Silvestre wasn’t exactly a major deal. I’d love to see Walcott play for us. His speed and versatility would be a real treat.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:50
@Grognard: they wouldnt have a say in it! under the bosman rule, walcot is allowed to talk to WHOEVER he wants, and if he agrees to join a club, arsene cant do a damn thing about it more then smile when he gets a check of £400k
January 5th, 2009 at 21:53
@Grognard:
nothing comes before united!
united
money
family
then girls
is what i love the most!
woops i forgot, grognard after money
January 5th, 2009 at 21:53
@YDR: I love Ballack as he is my favorite player (I know I know WTF), but I don’t see United ever going after him because he already snubbed us and because he is old. A player I think could be just what we need surprisingly enough is Mark Van Bommel. United has needed a hard man to run the midfield for a long time. Not since Keane have we had a defensive minded hard player who has a reputation for yellow cards and strong marking. A player like that would free up Carrick or Anderson to move forward and would also not allow teams to get away with fouling or trying to injure our players. A month ago I remember a player from a German team try to cripple Franck Ribery. Within minutes Van Bommel put him in the hospital with a legal but hard challenge. Message sent. You don’t mess with our stars or you will pay the piper. In this way he reminds me so much of Keane and Gattuso.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:56
@dan(u-ol): I agree. I don’t start him but I give him 20 minutes at the end of the game. He needs game time.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:57
@Grognard: i would start him from the outset. and if he looks out of his depth, take him off at half time. you’ll know he had game time and is starting to settle.
yes, i am a football manager!
January 5th, 2009 at 21:59
@dan(u-ol): Yes I guess that’s true. Now is the time to seduce the young fellow with a nice talk to by Fergie and then get his England teammates like Rio, Rooney, Carrick, Hargo etc have a good talk with him and show him why United is the only way. My question to you and others though is, why is Wenger not trying harder to sign this lad up? Does he know something we don’t? Injury concerns, attitude etc???
January 5th, 2009 at 22:00
@dan(u-ol): That’s more like it.
I live by the rules set up by Tony Montana. First the money, then the power, then United and then the woman. OK so I added United in there. I’m sure Tony would have too , but he was high on Coke and forgot.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:04
@dan(u-ol): Problem with starting him over bringing him late is that a team, especially United struggle to get cooking right away. He would be wasted until the team finally gets it’s shit together. By the 65th or 70th minute the game will be on the boil and a fresh set of fast legs can really take advantage of the situation and challenge the tired legs out there.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:18
@Grognard: Hmmm, weird. DAaily Mail was reporting that he’s already had the second op in late November iirc.
@dan(u-ol): Hopefully that is firmly tongue-in-cheek or the Park baiting has just reached new heights of absurdity.
@Craig Mc: Ronaldo has made some horrible decisions too, but he seems to know when to shoot and when not too, which makes me think he’s a little more developed football brain- wise than Nani. And yes I agree on the last part, I too can’t seem to find any reason why most United fans haven’t warmed up to him. Though I’ve seen some fans say the reason for this was the little bit of play acting he did vs. WHU last season.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:26
as far as my knowledge(Football Manager) goes, a club from another country can talk to people in the last 6 months of their contract but English teams can only negotiate within 1 month of contract ending. WAIT why am I even talking about this! Not a chance we’re getting him
January 5th, 2009 at 22:36
@YDR: Walcott has 18 months on his contract left, and their chief exec has already said that sorting out a contract for him is top of their list of things to do.
Not gonna happen.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:38
Maybe it’s not Park playing to cover Rafael’s defensive naiveity but Rafael playing because Park is not a winger.
Wingers hug the white line, are fast, can beat a man and can cross on the run. They are confidence players and need to be applauded for taking their opponent on and supported when not successful. Wingers give pace and excitement to a game. They can run with the ball or run behind the defence for the pass in behind the full back. Lennon at Spurs lost all his confidence but again looks a real threat. As a full back I wouldn’t lose much sleep before playing Park but Nani would have me on my mettle. He just needs to utilise his pace a bit more. Kanchelskis and Giggs gave us such pace. A quick Schmeical throw out and ………..
Don’t know if Tosic has real pace ( though Grog suggests he has )but he’s def got a sweet left peg. Berba will need to be on the end of it. Eric was great at timing runs to score with his head.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:44
Walcott is a speed machine. I have never ever seen a player move so fast on a football field. I think maybe only Bolt is faster than Theo. I know, I shouldnt call a player from another club with his first name, but Im getting used to say Theo because that is what all my Arse mates call him. Its stuck to me in some way, just like I am used to say Cesc or Robin. Probably because of the surnames.
And yeah, ive become friends with the Arsenal fans, they aint that bad when they dont brag about their team(or I mock them for being in 5th spot). 
But we have signed Tosic and we have Nani and Park in the ranks. We still dont know if Tosic will be preferred over Nani, or if Park is gonna be chosen over both of them. If we dont give Park a new contract, or we sell Nani in the summer, Walcott would be a great buy. I admire him, as a player only, and his run agaist Liverpool in the CL quarter-final last season was just like Giggs` vs Arsenal in 1999. Pure brilliance. If we sell either Park or Nani, there might be a chance of us landing Walcott. If I remember correctly Fergie followed him closely when he was at Soton, and now that Fergie and “Teh Voyuer” has become best mates, who knows really? I would be glad to see him in the team, as his speed is good enough to change a game on its own.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:48
Park’s clearly not highly rated on here then. His movement, one touch pass-and-move technique and intelligent and probing passes suit our playing style perfectly and he’s been very, very good this season. Just because he’s not flashy doesn’t mean he isn’t effective, but it always seems to have an impact on some people.
He deserves to start ahead of Nani no doubt.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:49
Oh, and I am surprised nobody has mentioned what Tevez said to Argentinian radio. From what my sources in Argentina say(the brother of my aunts husband) Tevez really said this. This is not media bullshit, but just plain frustration from Carlito. And to be honest, who can blame him?!
January 5th, 2009 at 22:54
@Conor: Have you been drinking too much lately?! Park deserves to play over Nani? Well, that is… Its just… I have no fucking words!
Park is shite, his finishing is even worse than… well, prabably just as bad as Andersons! Or possibly worse. He cant beat an opponent, he cant cross, he cant head, he cant shoot, he cant play defense splitting passes. The only think Park is good at is just positioning. I think, that if his finishing would be like Ruuds, Park would play as Inzaghi plays for Milan. No football brain, or class of any sort, only good at positioning. To be honest, even Eboue is better than Park! 
January 5th, 2009 at 22:55
Oh, and I am surprised nobody has mentioned what Tevez said to Argentinian radio. From what my sources in Argentina say(the brother of my aunts husband) Tevez really said this. This is not media bullshit, but just plain frustration from Carlito. And to be honest, who can blame him?!
January 5th, 2009 at 22:57
@RedDevilEddy: He’s probably our worst finisher, doesn’t bother me. He’s actually not a half bad crosser but rarely gets into those positions to, and his vision for a pass is more than underrated.
His footballing brain is of a much higher level than Nani’s, lets not be silly now.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:59
@RedDevilEddy: I wouldn’t blame him for being frustrated, I think it’s a bit odd what he said though.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:05
@RedDevilEddy: Having good positioning and movement requires a good footballing brain. They come hand-in-hand.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:28
@RedDevilEddy: It really is getting beyond a joke with Park. He has become the team’s new scapegoat, along with Neville. No one is suggesting that the lad is a world class player but the attitude some have to him on here astounds me.
As for the comment about no football brain, you have to be joking? A football brain is about decision making, positional skills, movement and tactical nous. Park’s problems are his technique and physical attributes, not his brain.
I can understand why people want the more talented player to start but then there doesn’t seem to be any reasoned assessment of the situation. Simply bunging all of your most talented players out onto the pitch does not necessarily equate to a team that has the best chance of success, just take a look at Real Madrid. You could also note our improvement in form in 2001-02 when Butt was preferred with Keane in CM over the vastly more talented Seba Veron.
In addition what if the more talented player is playing absolutely woefully, does he still have a good given right to start every week over the work horse? Yes, I would rather watch Nani to Park but based on what I have seen over the course of the season I can appreciate why Park has got the nod. His stats and highlights reel will never be particularly good looking but he provides a solid level of performance for 90 minutes and his sheer persistence and good positioning do make things happen.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:34
@the three Rs: Yes, that is the traditional, romantic vision of a winger. However IMO in modern football such rigid definition of player roles are a thing of the past. Ronaldo last year doesn’t exactly fit your definition of hugging the touch line. Modern players fulfill whatever role is required of them by the team. If a setup uses highly aggressive full backs and a winger that rarely tracks back and requires a defensive winger to act as a counter point then so be it.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:38
@dan(u-ol): Walcott may have the pace to run up and down the wing all day but it doesn’t mean that he knows what he is doing when he is defending. He was standing looking around him when he completely lost Evra for our second goal at the Emirates last season.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:44
@Conor: Well somebody is lying here, be it Tevez’s camp or the club. Regardless, it seems increasingly likely that the price required to make his move permanent is too steep.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:58
couple of points
first, i think walcott has 20 months still left on his contract so he still has just under 2 year left on it. I think this means that if a club came in and managed to turn his head then he could buy out his contract and could be ours for peanuts. Would he wanna leave arsenal for us, possibly, will fergie even consider him, i sincerely doubt it.
Grognard, what u said about van bommel with that challenge, haha great, i love players like that. For all the qualities hargo has when fit his aggression is not 1 of them, we need a rooney but in the centre of midfield. Oh oh, hope ferguson isnt secretly on here reading comments or he might just try to convert rooney from a striker to a defensive midfielder lol.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:05
Now a few general thoughts on the game, quite frankly I don’t know why some people are reading so much into it or getting uptight about the result. The match was played like an exhibition for large parts with no need for the team to exert itself to any degree. With 9 games in 29 days or so I could live with a few more energy saving, easy games like that. Just look at the hard work some of our main rivals made of dispatching lower league opposition. We should be grateful that our tie was navigated with such ease.
On the performances of the players only one really stood out, Berbatov. He may have been playing against poor opposition but that doesn’t lessen his control, vision and technique in the slightest. A superb performance from him. If we can get him playing to that type of level regularly in the second half of the season and SAF can get the Roon and Ron firing then I believe we will canter to the title.
Elsewhere there where average performances from the old guard, O’Shea and Evans and good displays from Carrick and Vidic. Of more interest were the few young lads trying to secure a place in the team/squad. Firstly Nani and Anderson. The first performed well while the latter was distinctly average. Neither put in a performance that suggested they will be knocking SAF’s door down for the Chelsea game.
Next up are Gibson and Possebom. Frankly Gibson looked woeful despite his goal but he is not helped by being played out on the wing when he gets chances. Possebom has a bit of class about him but he is still miles off the pace required for any competitive game of any significance. Lastly Welbeck, who produced an excellent display. He was lively, strong, fast and willing to stretch the opposition defence. He has done his chances of getting some sub appearances in the league later in the season no harm at all.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:14
@the three Rs: The times I saw Tosic play in the Under 21 Euros last year he looked very fast with great dribbling skill and the ability to cross the ball well.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:18
@RedDevilEddy: The thing is that Walcott can play the same role Rooney and Tevez play also. His versatility is great but his down side is his injury prone history. His pace on the ball is sublime and he appears to have found the way to influence a game and to also finish with determination and flair. I doubt very much whether we could get him but the fantasy is a nice one to think about.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:18
@Matthew: There has been a lot of talk in the press about players buying out contracts. However there has only been a handful of cases of this type and the ruling is still not on the same firm legal grounding as the Bosman case. Attempting to break a contract in this manner is a minefield of problems and leaves the player open to legal action from his club. If Walcott tried to force a move of that type he would easily be the highest profile case to date and likely turn himself into a pariah in England.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:20
@RedDevilEddy: Mate, you have to always remember that there will always be those who will pass on a filet mignon steak and choose a bologna sandwich instead. Never underestimate the bad taste of others. Seriously speaking, anybody who thinks Park is a good player needs…………
I’ll leave it to your imagination.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:35
@JB: I agree with you about us not needing to spend any more energy than we did. I would have liked to see some of the easy chances we had to get more goals come to fruition though Jb. With regards to the new lads, Welbeck did good, but to be honest it wasn’t a very competitive game to test the lad out, so I will reserve my judgment until I see him in bigger testing games. Possebon and Gibson do need to be loaned out, so they can develop a combat edge to their game, against better opposition than reserve football.
I thought Nani did really good, but yet again he needs a talking too from Fergie about playing dead whenever he is fouled, and like Ronnie he is often fouled from BEHIND which I hate. Still both Ronnie and he, need to get up and play on unless they are really hurt, as Vidic did yesterday, setting them the right example
.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:45
@JB: What are the things though that Park has made happen Jb. I am not saying he shouldn’t be played, in some games he does give the sheer persistence and terrier qualities you talk about, but I want to know what you mean by he makes things happen, because I am not seeing it as you are. I do remember last year at Boro, when we got our equaliser from Park sidetracking the full back and getting the ball into Rooney. But I can’t remember too much of that kind of thing. I do appreciate though that football is horses for courses, and I can live with that Bro.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:49
@Conor: Can’t see how you work that one out
. Perhaps if like Nani he had the equivelant number of assists as Nani did last season, and in the few games Nani has played this season, then I might understand more where you are coming from. Ask Jb our master stats man, he can back up the difference in stats on assists.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:52
@RedDevilEddy: I can blame him mate, players who come out and question Fergie in the media usually make the rod for their own back.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:57
I meant it in a sense that although he does not feature heavily on goal scoring or assist charts he does help to contribute. For example his persistance in the air to win the ball for Carrick just before the goal against City or his cross for Ronaldo against Arsenal just after their second goal. His final ball (shot or cross) may not be good but the way some talk on here you would think he offered absolutely nothing
January 6th, 2009 at 0:58
@the three Rs: Good thinking there three Rs, and thinking I mostly agree with
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:05
@Rd: Errrr Rd, are you talking about Ronnie or Nani in the WHU thing?. If your talking Nani then I get you, but you need to take a look also at the WHU full back, because Nani just put his head to his forehead, and we went down like Mohammed Ali has slugged him. I am not excusing Nani, but to say he wasn’t provoked would be total denial. However, his cover up job to not be sent off was complete Drama which I denounced at the time. I still love the lad though. Thing is Rd, all this playacting and cheating is RIFE with most foreigners coming into PL, and they are getting slyer at it. Altho Gerrard is not behind the door at diving etc, and he is English – soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:06
JB, Take your point about players needing to be versatile and accept that I may hold a rather romantacised view of the outside right/left. However, when teams park the bus (to use the new term in the vernacular), it is even more essential to get behind the defence.
Park comes inside to an already congested area rather than going outside his full back. Becks could deliver his curling cross without going past his full back, Park doesn’t have that ability. His runs without the ball get him into positions behind the defence but he generally lacks composure when there. Nani can beat his man and can cross well. Particularly at home, and specifically against teams with zero attacking ambition Nani should have been in the starting line up. That has rarely happened and Tosic has arrived before Nani has been given a fair chance. Park has many qualities, a good football brain being one of them but he does not fit my definition of a winger, not even the modern definition that you suggest has superceeded the old one.
Your posts are well thought out and interesting and I would agree with your asssessment of Sunday’s mismatch.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:10
@Grognard: Grog, I don’t sleep with United, so there’s your answer
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:13
@Craig Mc: You are correct, Nani’s stats are vastly superior in terms of assists last season (9 to 1 in about triple the playing time). Goal ratio is fairly similar last year. Park’s goal ratio in 2006/07 sticks out, where he got five goals in less than 9 full games. Interestingly the ratio of chances created does not differ anywhere as near as much as the assists between the two players.
Nani has two assists and one goal to Park’s one assist and one goal in around a quarter of the game time this season. However given the extremely small amount of time Nani has played this season it is difficult to draw any meaningful insight from his stats this year.
Park is the better passer by around 10% in terms of completion rate and is a better tackler (the team also tends to concede less when he is in the line up). Nani is the more accurate shooter and (obviously
) takes more shots. Park concedes fewer fouls and wins a comparable amount to Nani. Park also has a superior disciplinary record.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:20
@the three Rs: I agree largely with what you have said there. I reckon the old saying different horses for different courses fits. There will be days when Park’s defensive attributes will be needed (dare I say Inter away) and others when Tosic/Nani’s offensive spark is demanded.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:22
@JB: Thanks for that Jb, I think it will be a little difficult to really compare as you say, unless both players get equivelant number of games
. I think a lot of this fan thing is down to individual preferences, and fans will always be split on who they love among players. Player affinity is a divider alright. 
January 6th, 2009 at 1:35
Some interesting stats for the EPL:
Games started Goals Assists Shots Shots on target
Berba 14 3 6 31 12
Rooney 14 4 4 66 23
Ronaldo 14 8 3 85 23
Park 11 1 0 24 8
Carrick 10 2 0 20 8
Note that Berba averages two shots a game. For a forward that is seriously low and his shots are on a level with Park and Carrick who are midfielders. Personally and I use his goalscoring exploits at Tottenham to support my case, I see no reason why Berbatov cannot be scoring 20 goals a season for us in the EPL as well as contributing a good amount of assists. But he needs to take more shots. Also we need to ban Park from shooting. I think that sums up the argument for the Nani supporters: Park is a very unproductive players….hardly scores, doesn’t provide many assists. Nani on the other hand last season was very productive and for me that makes up for the occasions where he loses possession or is out of position.
So my plan to get us scoring goals again:
Play Nani or get Tosic into the first team within a month and instruct them to ping crosses into the box for Berbatov and Ronaldo to get on the end of.
Tell Berbatov to take more shots on goal because he is a damn good finisher.
Give Rooney some psychological coaching so that he scores more consistently as these goal streaks and goal droughts are just frustrating.
Chelsea are ours for the taking. 4-4-2 and attacking them is my game plan too!
January 6th, 2009 at 1:37
@JB: Seems odd that either of them would though, Tevez never came across as someone who would lie and I don’t understand why Gill and co. would do it either. Either way I’m not impressed.
It’s looking increasingly more likely we won’t sign him, which is a real shame.
I wasn’t to sure about Tevez at the end of last season to the beginning of pre-season. Wasn’t sure how much he really contributed and thought he was overrated. But then I had a look back over the season review and you see how heavily involved he was in everything, his ability to link up with others is up there with the best in our team and on top of his game he adds another dimension to our team.
His partnership with Ronaldo was key to us last season, they had such a great understanding that I didn’t realise at first. It’s not even just the passes like the one against Newcastlem it’s the little things where they just played simple passes and the other one made a run the opposite way and it created so much space.
I don’t think his benefits to the team stand out in the same way Rooney’s or Ronaldo’s does, but it’s the little things he does that often made a big difference last season.
I’d be overjoyed if we got him, even for the extra £20m odd. I really would.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:37
Mmmmmm according to our friends (NOT) the Sun, Tevez has told Argie magazine interviewer he would like to play for Real Madrid. He says he loves United and the fans, but if another club offers him a 5 year deal, then he would have to take it. If I remember correctly, isn’t this the kind of crap Tev’s agents pulled with Mascherano at L’Pool. They should understand that United are not L’fool, and trying to force United’s hand will not go down well with hierarchy. The sun reckon Tev phoned them yesterday, saying he felt he was being forced out
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:40
@Craig Mc: Nani’s far more talented than him, in terms of physique and technical ability, but Park’s undoubtedly got a better footballing brain.
Don’t worry though Craig, I still love the lad just like you do and hope you’ve been sticking up for him plenty because I’m sure he got a fair whack of criticism on here with how little he’s played and how he’s unimpressed a few times?
January 6th, 2009 at 2:11
@Conor: Did you see the Saints game Conor Bro?. What I noticed specifically in that game, was that Nani was taking time to get his head up, and look around to see who was in space before making his passes this time. I don’t know if it is just me, but I very much noticed this in the game. I thought he was really unlucky not to get more assists in this game, because he found players in space in and around the box, and if they had been on shooting form, Nani would have had those assists
. This pleased me really, because I thought, are the coaching staff working with him at last 
. I do believe I saw a difference mate. I loved how he sent the ball onto O’Sheas head like a guided missile to its target, that led to the first goal. I was impressed too, that he stepped up to take the penalty kick, when we had strikers on the pitch. Anyway, I hope he continues to work really hard with the coaches on his game, and he comes into the form of last season, or even better – yeah better 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:13
Conor thanks mate, I did answer your comments, but I got the awaiting moderation thing, and I will wait until RR posts my post
, because I don’t want to explain it all again. It was a really encouraging post too.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:37
Ah righto Craig.
Oh, and I’d apologise to you now about the last time we talked but I don’t think a straight apology is enough, so I’ve decided I’m going to work my way back up because I’m sure I (justifiably) went down in your estimation that day.
And I won’t take no for an answer!
January 6th, 2009 at 3:26
jeez, I leave the blog for a few hours and the people who actually support my viewpoint show up. Typical
January 6th, 2009 at 5:18
@Liam: I disagree Liam, I’m back too.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:21
I wish Park plays every game, just to irritate many people here.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:38
@scrtls:
January 6th, 2009 at 8:59
the way i see it, we have been poor through out the WHOLE season, on 1 wing we have the greediest player in the world who cant shoot for shite right now! and puts in 1 cross in about 3-4 matches. then on the other side we have a player that cant shoot, pass or cross, but gives us defensive back up
, then in the centre we have 2 players that prefer to pass to the side a million times instead off passing forward.
its a surprise we have gotten as many goals as we have this season.
park give us balance BULLSHIT! we should play to our strengths, attacking football, not too the other teams weaknesses and play defensive.
Let me ask you this, does any other successful team have a park in their team?
the way i see it, nani and anderson need to start, nani our only fit winger that can cross, anderson, our only CM that will pass forward.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:17
Oh, I enjoy taking this ‘balance BULLSHIT’
January 6th, 2009 at 9:53
@ Dan – Um, yes, most successful teams have a Park in them. Look at our main rivals: Pool have Kuyt (and Keane) and Chelsea have Kalou. Both of them are ‘attacking’ players that hustle and bustle the whole game, close down defenders with the ball and basically get into good positions but don’t score often.
Like it or not in the modern game a good quality opposition will exploit you if you play a simple 442 with 4 of those players being attacking focused. This is partly due to the fitness of players today being much higher and also with using a lone striker system, and sending 3 midfielders forward to target weaker areas of your defense. If we play a formation which includes Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov and Nani it leaves us vunerable against teams doubling up on our full backs. Which is fine against crap opposition, but not fine against quality because we will pay for it.
Last season we got away with it a lot of the time because teams were too fearful to leave Ronaldo alone when they were attacking, they’d hold a midfielder in front of him, and keep a full back behind him. This season as his efficacy has gone down, teams are starting to run right past him, and unless he starts using hte space to make them pay, we’re going to really suffer, as both of our midfielders can never get forward through the middle, as they’re busy picking up Ronaldo’s man.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:23
If Park has to play which I believe Fergie feels is to protect Rafael, well is Rafael needs protecting why is he playing?
He is a good player and could be superb, but let him play I have nothing against Park and he works he socks off, but he simply like O’Shea and Fletcher if I was being really honest with myself isn’t Manchester United quality, I know Fletch has playe dwell this season but he is no where near a world class midfielder which this club deserves.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:29
@Beachryan: Both of those players you mention are attacking players who hustle but who also have an ounce of talent. Park has no talent. Truly, I am tired of all the Park BS on this site whether it’s for him or against him, it’s becoming a futile enterprise. Lets face it, Fergie does what he wants and sees something in that useless bag of fluid and bones that I and many others don’t. Fine, lets end there. Going around in circles about a useless little player is getting us nowhere. What’s the point, I’m not going to change my view unless Park himself helps me change it. And vice versa I’m sure. So too all of you, lets put the Park stuff to rest. It’s becoming overly redundant and boring.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:45
@ Grognard – Yeah fair enough. Fergie does as Fergie does.
Tevez situation is interesting, word here is that he even called up the Sun to clarify his points. Which I find hard to believe given his English skills, but something must have happened. For me the bottom line is that he’s settled, quality and a useful player to have. But he’s not worth breaking the bank if we can’t afford it.
I think the best situation would be for us to buy him for between £15 and £20m, taking into account the fact that he’ll get us nothing in return at the end of 5 years. Unfortunately, as he’s nothing more than a shiny jewel in Kia Joorchabian’s collection, I doubt Kia will settle for anything other than the highest price. If he actually gets an offer for £30m I say fair play to him, and wish him the best.
The problem with signing him is that it doesn’t solve any of our problems, other than covering Rooney/Berba for a long season. Ronaldo leaves, we’re still without a winger. We still lack a poacher for games that need one. We still lack a physical presence. Tevez is good, but like everyone said when we got him, not a necessity, more a luxury. If that luxury becomes too expensive, well you just have to move on.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:19
@Beachryan: But who would pay £30m for him?
January 6th, 2009 at 11:21
@Stephen: That’s idiotic. Besides the fact you took a completely irrelevant dig at O’Shea, Fletcher is United quality and so is Park.
Calling any one of our players useless is a utter disgrace too. (that’s not directed at you)
January 6th, 2009 at 11:24
@Stephen: Plenty of teams. Inter are planning on selling Suazo and so will have a spot open for him, Real Madrid need a player like him, Chelsea are in need of a striker and City might be in with a chance.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:35
@Conor: I am certainly not an idiot and don’t take kindly being called one.
I am entiltled to my opinion as are you and we both can say what we like, and Fletcher is not in my view a world class midfielder.
Inter up front play with one striker and that will be Ibrahimovic, thay also have Julio Cruz, Crespo, Balotelli and Adriano who probably be sold.
On eirher side they have a Mourinho favorite Quaresma and Mancini can’t see them paying £32m for Carlos.
Carlos is superb great lad brilliant attitude but we need to negotiate to bring the fee down simple and that isn’t idiotic.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:58
I’m sure you’re not an idiot, the comment itself was idiotic rather than you being an idiot. There is a difference. Fletcher’s not world class, no. Neither was Nicky Butt, neither was Phil Neville, but they still did a very important job for the team. Actually forget about them two, even Michael Carrick isn’t world class, and I rate him highly. You can’t have a squad full of world class players.
They play with one striker because none of those four can play with Ibrahimovic, although Balotelli, Adriano and Cruz have all been given a chance to this season, and failed.
A Mourinho favourite?! Where’d you get the idea he’s a favourite?! He’s only made 7 league starts from 17 games this season, so you’re well off there.
He’s worth anything under £25m more, which is likely to be what’s going to be paid for him by us or by a foreign club.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:12
@Conor: I would say Michael is not far off being world class, but he not yet.
Butt and Neville have both been sold, and were never first choice so how is that relavant?
So are we saying that we have no world class centrel midfielders then,Scholes was but now obviously age is not on his side.
Mourinho has always played one up front perdominatly, at Chelsea and Porto, he does like Quaresema and saying he is a favorite I meant that Mourinho said that he will be a “different player soon”, after he has moulded him, the same why he did with J Cole.
The comment also was not idiotic, Fletcher and O’Shea are fill in players, O’Shea is no way a left back and Fletcher is not a shoe in starter.
Would he play in front of Alonso, Gerrard or Mascherano at Liverpool?
Would he play in front of Deco, Mikel, Lampard and Essien at Chelsea?
I think not, we are short of a world class centrel midfielder in my view and that again is not idiotic.
To say Park is United quality is your view maybe like Fletch and O’Shea a squad player but not a starter, and that what the three palyers are currently.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:23
How is it relevant? Because between them they played over 500 games for us, which shows we don’t need world class squad players.
I’d say we don’t have any world class midfielders, no. On his day Scholes still is, but just on his day. World class isn’t a term that should just be thrown around like you did.
He likes Quaremas? Explain that to me, did he say that he like Quaresma any more than the rest of the team?
The three players are starters now because of injuries and suspensions, that’s it. That’s why we call them squad players.
We don’t need a world class midfielder, the jobs our midfielders do are limited in that they don’t have to be world class to play them to perfection, and Carrick and Scholes do play them to perfection.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:48
Butt was sold at 29 and Neville at 28, in their prime if they were so important in Fergies eyes he would not of sold them, they were squad players.
“We don’t need a world class midfielder”? Surely the centre of midfield is the most important position in any side, and having one world class player in that position in paramount.
What injury or suspension is Park playing over?
Fletcher you could argue over Hargo but he is playing over £18m worth of Brazialian international, so maybe a first ccoice now.
With regards to Quaresema, well Mourinho did make a point of signing him so maybe he does like the player somewhat, but thats my view.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:11
Of course they were squad players, but the only reason they were sold is because of people like Fletcher coming through and them wanting to leave! You’re either missing the point completely or ignoring it intentionally, I have no idea which one it is though.
Apparently not, seeing as we didn’t have a world class midfielder last season.
Park’s playing ahead of Hargreaves in my eyes.
Fletcher’s been playing ahead of Carrick/Scholes due to injuries, not Hargreaves.
He also signed Mancini, doesn’t mean he likes him particularly much, just that they needed wingers and he seen them as viable options. There are very few available wingers going about though so his choice was limited. Mancini’s only made 7 league starts as well for what it’s worth, so the idea that they play a 4-3-3 with Mancini and Quaresma surrounding Ibrahimovic is clearly wide of the mark.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:28
@Matthew: You called it and it was spot on. Whata great game he had!
January 6th, 2009 at 13:28
@Conor: Mancini has been injured, but I am not interested in Inter, yet anyway.
Hargreaves in a centre midfielder, who can play out wide if needed, so Park is in my view is currently first choice even if Hargo was fit.
Scholes will only start against teams inferior to us or we play three in the centre of the park, because his legs have gone, Fletcher currently is above him in the pecking order and above Anderson as we are playing 4-4-2, no I am missing the point.
We in my view still need a world class midfielder as we are net creating enough chances, Carrick is playing deep and Fletch is simply a worker. We either need a attacking goal scoring midfielder or a holder so Carrick can get forward more and create, but thats my view.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:54
@Stephen: We have 2. One of them is injured. This is why we have a squad. Carrick IS a world class midfielder. Carrick has a range of passing that is only matched by Scholes in his pomp. If he was Italian or Brazillian we’d have had to pay £30million for him easy, and he would be called a genius. Unfotunately for him he’s a barcode!
I think the purchase of Tosic combined with recent quotes from Giggs concerning his career mean that this is his last season. Scholes will most likely keep on playing, so that leaves us with the following options for next season.
1 Carrick
2 Hargreaves
3 Anderson
4 Scholes
5 Fletcher
6 Gibson
7 Possebon
With 3 quality players for 2 places and 2 decent back ups, and 2 upandcomers I think the last place we need to spend money is CM.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:58
@Stephen: That’s absurd. Firstly to say that Scholes can only play in a midfield three of against weak teams. Secondly to say Fletcher’s just a worker and thirdly that we need a new midfielder.
We just bought an attacking midfielder in Ljajic!
Christ people’s expectations have gone up on here, almost to the extent people are now overly negative.
I wonder who’s fault that might be….
@Traverse: Carrick’s not world class and his nationality has nothing to do with it.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:04
@Conor: Our recent success coincides with his arrival and what he bring to our midfield. If his name was Carrinhio and could learn how to walk around with his mouth closed nobody would question it.
Name one player who is a better passer than Carrick? Our fast attacking play over the last 2 seasons has all been possible because of his pinpoint distribution.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:04
@Traverse: Well I am not sure about if he was Brazialian we would pay more because buying English is more expensive than buying foreign. Caarick in my view has been our player of the year, and has been superb, but not World class as he only recently has got back into the England squad which know one would pay £30m for not an international player.
Hargreaves is a superb player, but he in the summer would not have played a ll full season for over 3 years, and will he ever be the same player again or will he ever be fit again, personally i love him and pray to God he will.
Anderson is a tough one, he has potential but will that come through, he played well first half of last season and tailed off, which is understanable, but he has not hit form this season regardless of what people say.
Scholes next season will be 35, the best English player of his era but unfortuantly that era has passes, but he at the moment has something to offer, but mainly as a sub
Flech is a good squad player and he energy is great, but has no real quality but a good squad player.
Gibson does nothing for me and already is 21, and going on loan will do him good next year.
Possebon is still adapting and the jury is still out, but will need time.
So in my view we could do with a centre mid.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:07
@Traverse: A better passer? Pirlo and Alonso are two.
Ignore Pirlo’s form and he’s still one of the best, if not the best passer, in world football. As is Alonso.
There’s more to someone’s game than just passing though, I wouldn’t call Alonso world class either, passing isn’t Carrick’s biggest asset anyway.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:08
@Stephen: Getting into the England team means feck all, just look at Scholes in the England team.
Didn’t stop people from Lippi and Zidane saying he was the best midfielder of their generation.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:13
its true that we dont have a Worldclass solid DM or Worldclass Solid AM..what we have is CM’s who prefer to stay back and create from there.. instead we have the wingers stepping up to get the goals from midfield… thats how we play…but if ronaldo goes and if tosic is the one who is going to replace ronaldo,then we definitely need an AMF who can score goals as ronaldo is our only available clinical finisher at this moment…
may be if anderson can step up and start scoring goals,then well and good… or if ljajic could recreate a kaka magic
January 6th, 2009 at 14:14
The real issue here is squad management. Our hands are tied because Hargreaves is injured all season and it would make little sense to spend twenty million on a replacement because by next season we will hopefully have a fit Hargreaves and an even better Anderson competing alongside Carrick for the central midfield berths.
Where we are screwing up is promoting decent squad players such as Park and Fletcher to first team duties rather than chancing on Anderson and Nani and giving the games to see if they develop.
Anderson is not yet of the standard required for a team of our stature. I mean look at Pool who have Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherona and Chelsea who have Lampard, Ballack, Deco.
Nani is not the same level as Anderson but then again other teams struggle with wide players because there is a shortage of good wide players in the modern game. Even so you could make a similar argument.
Unfortunately the same applies to Fletcher and Park. So the argument for not playing Nani and Anderson is very weak. I guess Ferguson appeals to seniority and is worried that Fletcher and Park will want to leave (I believe there was an issue with Fletcher over the summer and Ferguson had to promise him games to get him to stay).
We need to give Nani and Anderson at least a full game a week and see how much progress they make in a year. If they make the required progress in a year we can then sell Fletcher and Park if they insist on more games by which time Tosic and Posssebon/Gibson will be able to replicate their squad roles.
We are in a transition process. Scholes and Giggs are shadows of the players they were in the prime. Anderson and Nani are developing and not quite the level required. Hargreaves is out. So central midfield and the wings are our weak point this season.
Ferguson should give youth a chance and let this transition process happen naturally. But I think he is so desperate to win a few more trophies before he retires that he is playing safe and plumping for Park and Fletcher because of their experience. Moreover they are consistently average as opposed to Nani and Anderson who have good games and bad games.
Personally I believe consistency comes with regular games and if Anderson and Nani have a bad game it is unlikely to cost us a match while if they have a good game they are able to help us win matches we would otherwise have drawn.
So I can understand why we play Fletcher and Park in big away games but at home and away games against weaker teams it should be a no-brainer:
play Anderson and Park and go for a win!
January 6th, 2009 at 14:16
@Conor: How is that absurd?, Scholes is 34 and does not have the legs anymore especially as a lot of teams play with 3 in the centre, and Fletcher is a worker, he is not a creative midfielder nor a particlar goal scorer his 10 goals in 121 games sugguest that!
Ljijic is at Partisan until 2010, and who knows how good he can or will become.
My expectations are as high as always, I have been a season ticket holder for 10 years, and Keane, Robson, Scholes, Ince have all been our main stay in the side and world class. I want the best for my club and am fully behind the team and manager, and am not negative, just airing my views on a site called Red Rants.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:18
@Conor: Scholes was an England regular but retired?!?!
Zidane was the best player in the world, don’t get your point.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:23
@Stephen: He does though, the idea that he’s a sub nowadays is ridiculous.
I’ve only been a season ticket holder for the last three, so you must be a better supporter than me.(or else why would you throw that in there, other than to prove a point)
Our team is changing, we are less reliant on our centre mids because Rooney and Tevez give a bit of added steel defensively and Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney provide more than enough going forward.
Our centre mids are completely different to before, but so are our strikers. Things change and this system works without a world class midfielder.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:26
@Conor: Spot on mate….if this system works,then why should we change our system
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@Stephen: But he couldn’t get a regular place in centre mid for England and never really performed for them, performances and anything to do with England are largely irrelevant to a players overall ability. Look at Henry, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard etc. they never performed to the same heights they hit for their clubs consistently for their international teams but that doesn’t make them bad players.
Judging a player by how often he gets in a national team or how he performs for them is never a good idea.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@Conor: Give me a break, I was responding to your expectations comment, and to explain where I was comming from, and there is no need to get like that.
Who are you talking about, Scholes being a sub or Fletch?
Are team is no different and the idea of midfielders no longer being important is just nonsensicle to me, midield should and is in any team to the engine room and the most creative part of any side.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@bond: Because we’re spoilt, it seems.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:32
@Conor: He performed when he was played correctly under Keegan and Hoddle.
You can’t judge a player off International form or if he plays, really?
January 6th, 2009 at 14:33
@Stephen: Scholes. Scholes-Carrick is still far and away our best partnership.
It may be nonsensical but just watch us last season for any proof you need, pretty much all of the creative threat came from the front four and our two centre mids just gave the ball to them and let the front four cause havoc.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:34
We have changed our system and style to some degree from last season with the arrival of Berbatov.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:36
@Stephen: You can’t judge a player off international form?
I’d say a definite no.
It’s a completely different game, because of the fact the system is often very different and the players rarely have time to form on-field relationships the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez have, and some very good players don’t play half as well as they can.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:37
@Conor: Would you play Scholes and Carrick on Sunday against Ballack or Deco, Lampard and Mikel? I certainly wouldn’t, with Berba and Rooney up front.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:38
@Stephen: We have indeed, only slightly though.
It’s actually made Carrick perform even better than he had done previously because it gives him license to come forward and he really stamped his authority on some games more so than last season, but I don’t understand the point you’re making.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:41
@Conor: I would not agree, but only would agree if you are soley talking about England.
I am also not a spoilt United fan, and please don’t accuse me of being one, all I am trying to do is put my point accross as are you and the digs at me are not needed.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:47
@Conor: That is debatable, we played a very fluid system last season with Wazza, Rooney and Carlito interchanging, now we are more rigid with Berba playing as more of a focal point through the middle. Last season Ronnie was allowed to come inside more as he was the main focus of our play.
We also played with 3 centre mids last season in games and have not done that this so far, so we have changed from last season.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:50
@Stephen: We play around 6 big teams a season at most, that’s around 12 big games. For them games I would go for a middle three with Anderson, Carrick and Scholes. That doesn’t mean Carrick-Scholes aren’t the first choice partnership because they’re likely to play the rest of the matches, more than any other partnership.
Oh, and I wouldn’t call you spoilt in any sense, although I don’t think we need to expect anything more when we’re the double winners, with arguably the best squad in world football, so I’d say your expectations are quite high in comparison to mine. It was more of a comment about the general consensus.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:56
@Stephen: I don’t think Berbatov has effected Ronnie’s role at all, he still cuts inside plenty and he still gets plenty of chances, he just misses them. I’d say Park’s had as much of an effect on him, because it leads to Ronaldo playing most of his games on the left.
The bit about centre mids might have more to do with Queiroz, but I’d hope not.
We’ll find out against Chelsea, but if we play 4-4-2 I’ll worry.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:59
@Conor: All I expect from us is to play good football and to compete, and play with the integrity I have become expectent of, I have not told you before what my expectations were, but anyway.
I would love the Scholes of a few years ago play with Carrick because either one could sit and go forward, and I would hate to play against them in piggy in the middle at training, that would be a nightmare.
It does depend on who we play against, Scholes can and has never been able to tackle, Carrick is more of an intersepter than a in your face kind of midfielder and in big games against the stongest midfield you need that.
If Hargo was fit I would play those two with him, but alas that is not the case.
January 6th, 2009 at 15:00
@Conor: I find the whole CQ thing a falacy, Fergie runs the team know one else.
January 6th, 2009 at 15:09
I have a feeling that 2009/10 will be a major, major season for us like 2007/08 was. This season however I can see United only winning one trophy and probably exiting the Champion’s League quite early e.g. before the semis, as we are suffering a hangover it seems from our unprecedented success last year. 2009/10, however, will be the year when we are back to our imperious best!
This will be down to three reasons: 1) Hargo will be back!! I can’t help but think that our current malaise could be in part due to his absence, and the fact that some of our best performances last year came when he played is no coincidence at all. 2) the likes of Anderson, Nani, Foster, Rafel, Fabio and Tosic will be ready to fully stake a claim for a permanent place in the starting XI as Giggs, Scholes, EVDS and Gaz Nev prepare for their swansong season 3) Fergie will make one (possibly two) new signing in the summer and we will definitely be the most complete football team in Europe, if not the world. Hopefully Tevez will still be with us next year, but if not, then Fergie will (hopefully) sign a genius player like Aguero or Arshavin to replace him (I can dream…).
January 6th, 2009 at 16:15
Tried to read all the articles and comments that I missed while on holiday, just too much.
I just want to add that I think for the past 2-3 games, Berbatov is SLOWLY starting to impress me. Not regarding his skill – to deny he hasn’t is obviously stupid, but for his workrate lately, and also his performance and attitude on the pitch. He had a good game on Sunday, but I doubt he will often get that much space. Still, he had a very good game. I hope he continues like this so that I can start seeing Cantona in him.
For those lambasting Anderson. Sure he had a bad game. But, so did Giggs, Possenbon, Gibson, Evans, etc. He needs a some games again to get in his stride. One very noticing thing was the way he just looked in a different class to Possenbon and Gibson when they were on the pitch. And, WTF is this with Gibson playing on the wings? What gives SAF the impression that he did a good job there in the previous games?
January 6th, 2009 at 16:18
This whole Tevez thing amuses me!!!…why in the hell would Fergie go around toying with that guy Tevez??
Fergie’s tactics and attitude pulled down a player who committed 4-5 yrs for United, a fan’s favourite from the top of his game and confidence to a filthy low that he announced in press that he would like to play for Real
..
I never understood what was the problem that we were trying to fix from last year..only problem i saw was Rooney’s scoring record….
Ronaldo-42,Tevez-19,Rooney-12 odd…If rooney can provide that 20-23 goals and if our midfield can step up their tally a little bit we were pretty much good…
The all attacking and worth a watch team is gone and what we have is a team who plays boring football and come out with 1-0 wins all the time…
Still dont understand what went wrong…
January 6th, 2009 at 16:47
Well, first.. belated happy new year to fellow ranters!
@Stephen: Stephen mate.. I agree that Berbatov’s inclusion has caused the fluid motion of the forward play to decrease drastically. I have rarely seen Ronnie in the middle this season (compared to last yr).. now it is only the right or the left that he is found. And I for one would like to see this solved. I’m not saying kick Berbatov out, but I’m just in favour of affording Ronaldo his freedom of last season.
January 6th, 2009 at 16:50
The Tevez issue is highly annoying for me. I don’t wanna see him leave in the summer. I’d much rather see the ‘Rooney Ronaldo Tevez’ trinity play week in week than any other combo. They have the collective teamwork creativity, grit, determination and skill to get the job done. Plus the boy the loves playing for us.. which is a rare thing these days!
January 6th, 2009 at 16:55
@Conor: The system works Conor if you want to watch BORING SHITE FOOTBALL.
January 6th, 2009 at 16:57
@Shyam: IIRC Rooney did score something like 18 or 19 goals last year, not 12 like you said. Agree about Tevez though, it’s a shame what’s happened to him…
January 6th, 2009 at 16:57
@Stephen: You go Bro
. I want the best MF too, but we aint got one at the moment 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:14
@dan(u-ol): Strangely enough my friend, I agree with most of what you have said in this post
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:18
@scrtls: And to give us a few more BORING SHITE 1-0 or 0-0 games no doubt
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:31
Agreed we have reverted to 4-4-2 (or more like 4-4-1-1) which is very different from the 4-3-3 we favoured on many occasions last season. Perhaps this is the influence of Quieroz leaving…Ferguson is reverting to what he knows best and the arrival of Berbatov allows him to do this.
We have the players to be able to adapt but it will take time. The most important thing is to improve the service from central midfield so Berbatov stops this bad habit he has of always dropping too deep to get the ball.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:32
@Conor: O my God Conor mi man, did you say something to me that warrented an apology?
. Just shows you mate, I can’t even recall what on earth it could have been. You know what Conor, I just say what I have to say, and love to get into scraps dissenting with others of differing viewpoint, but I never take it to heart Bro, and remember, because to me it just FANDOM.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:08
rafael has played 15 times this season, at least 3-5 off those games where off the bench. park has played, 19 teams, only one off the bench if memory serves correct. to say park is there to cover rafael is BS because 1 he has started more games, and 2, our wingers always chance wings.
but as grognard says, this is getting nowhere so might aswell end it.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:09
@Craig Mc:
January 6th, 2009 at 18:26
@dan(u-ol): I wasn’t being rude to you Dan(u)ol mi man. I was just saying I agreed with most of your points. As you know, I don’t always agree with all points a person might make in a particular post
. We cool then Bro?.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:27
@Craig Mc: Not too much to ask is it bro??!!
January 6th, 2009 at 18:29
@dan(u-ol): that comment wasnt for you lol, the one below was lol, that was just a comment for all!
January 6th, 2009 at 18:34
United is one of the biggest clubs a footballer can join. Players that have been successful elsewehere are not always so at OT and can then leave and be subsequently successful. A certain confidence is required. Carrick I think is already close to world class and when he accepts that he is the main man in the centre, having learned from Scholes and wearing Keane’s old shirt with pride, he will blossom still further.
Now Andy needs to be playing regularly alongside him and doing his apprenticeship. Fergie admitted to using Andy and Nani more last year than he had expected – both playing well and part of our successful team, but the confidence that must have given them to my mind has been negated by being played less in the first half of this season when surely they would have anticipated playing at least as often.
Andy played against the best midfielders in the league last year, on their patch, and bossed them. Fabregas is even in his song. In the absence of Hargreaves, he should be allowing Carrick to get forward ( probably our best striker of the ball who can work space for himself in tight areas) and at other times be the one to get forward because he commits defenders as he drives straight into their area of the field and can produce a telling pass at pace. I think he is unsure of what is wanted of him yet he should be well into his apprenticeship by now.
Buying young players is exciting but they are entitled to the proper training.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:39
We need a new thread because the topics of conversation on this one have gone boring and infuriating as Hell. Can you hear me RR, wherever you are?
January 6th, 2009 at 18:47
Does anyone care about tomorrows game, with regards to the fact we have the rent boys on Sunday?
January 6th, 2009 at 18:52
@Stephen: I care! (about the fixture in General) I might go to the second leg!
January 6th, 2009 at 19:06
After saying that, I realise that Id like a win over Chelsea over everything else.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:22
The Trials and Tribulations of the Terrible Terrier Tevez
Regarding this Carlos Tevez mess that has been brewing the last few days, I’m surprised more of you have not voiced in with your thoughts on this. I for one cannot blame the lad one bit as I think he has been shown no respect and has also been lied to. Sad that United would come out months ago and say that they were promising to sign him for an estimated 32 million but now they just seem to have forgotten his existence. WTF? What’s going on?
I like Carlos Tevez but I don’t love him as a player. For me he is a talented player with great desire and ability to affect a game just when you need it to be. He has a flair for scoring in clutch situations and has always been a fan favorite since his arrival. Carlito is a fine talent but just not my cup of tea. For all his positives (and there are many), there are things that he just does not offer as a forward which leave me to believe that we can do better and sign someone else who will offer us more goals per game and more of a presence in the box. Tevez is too much like Rooney as he likes to roam, track back too far and get involved in the play in areas far away from the 18 yard box. He is like a possessed and rabid terrier as he just runs runs runs and causes havoc. He isn’t a tall man and his lack of height has always been a concern for me being that he is a striker. He also hasn’t got the greatest burst of pace or the long strides to get past a defender in a one on one situation. He is not dominant in the air due to his height yet I can say he has scored more goals with his head in one year and a half than Wayne Rooney or even RVN ever did. He contributes positively in his own unique way and I suppose too many like myself, he is an acquired taste.
So what is to become with Carlos Tevez? I for one have no problem with the club keeping him but truthfully, is he worth the money his agent is demanding and the money that it will cost to buy out his contract? The answer is NO. Carlito is just not worth 32 million. Sorry Tevez fans but I call a spade a spade and he is just not worth that kind of money. Not when two great players can be purchased for that price and not when there are other more pressing needs for the team than a third striker. Some of you may ask how I believe we don’t need another #3 striker? Frankly, I have more than a lot of faith in both Frazier Campbell as well as Danny Welbeck to fill that role next season. Campbell is ready and certainly Welbeck has not embarrassed himself in his limited auditions. Too me Tevez is an overpriced extravagance when I feel we should be filling other spots with players of quality. For example, I am of the belief that although Anderson has shown significant improvement of late, the need for a central midfielder of high quality is needed. Either a defensive minded midfielder of the hard quality like a Van Bommel, Senna or DeRossi mode, or an attacking maestro who can scheme, finesse and manage the team’s offensive style.
We also should be looking for a proper backup to Ronaldo. Tosic was really bought for the left side to compete with Nani and Giggs. Giggs is hinting of retirement after this season and so finding yet again another versatile winger who is comfortable on both sides or a wiz on one side is important. And I do not want to hear see the word PARK mentioned in any replies please. Unlike some of you, that player just rubs me the wrong way and he is the antithesis of what Manchester United football stands for.
Finally, we should seriously be looking fro van der Sar’s replacement. Sory folks but Foster is not the man and the sooner we all come to agreement on that, the sooner we can come to agreement on who should be EVDS successor. I nominate Boruc, Adler, Frey, Malfeev, Akinfeev or Neuer
as my main choices. All world class keepers and all more than capable of manning the position for a long time. I for on e would be over the moon if we were to get either Boruc, Adler or Neuer. Other than the proven Buffon, Cech and Casillas, I would rate these the next best keepers on the planet. With 32 million we can fill these weak or aging spots in our lineup.
When I read the rumors of Fergie still wanting to buy Karim Benzema, I physically get sick to the stomach. Nausea overtakes me. Not only do I feel Benzema is highly overrated, but I think he is the last player this club should ever consider buying. He is a selfish player with grand delusions of himself and where he wants to go in his career. He absolutely loves Spain and especially Real Madrid and we certainly know what that means to our club. He has the ability to be a destabilizing force on the club with an attitude reserved for me me me. I see no pleasing him and I see no way that he will accept a rotation with Rooney and Berbatov yet alone the position of #3 forward. Not gonna happen.
So this all brings us back to Carlito and what to do with him. Unfortunately I have to bid the fine Argentine farewell. Frankly, he doesn’t deserve that kind of money. I personally value him around 17 million. He is far from a prolific goal scorer and other than his tenacious and terrier-like style of play, he doesn’t posses one specific skill that is world class and something we can’t do without. So unless he and his agent come way down on their asking price and that the final buyout price comes way down to about 20 million from 32, then I am reserved to losing his services for 2009/10.
There is no doubt in my mind that United have avoided making a deal due to their intention to drive his price way down. Don’t play him and cause him frustration while making other clubs look elsewhere or even question their initial interest. Problem with this strategy is that it has the potential to severely unsettle the player himself and cause him to feel betrayed and ill treated. And this seems to have come out in Carlito’s recent interview on Argentine radio. This is a player who has called Fergie and the club a pack of liars and has denied even being made an offer, yet alone refusing it. I have a feeling that Tevez’ last days in a Manchester United uniform will be sad and bitter ones, and for that I am sad and very sorry. Although he wasn’t my favorite, he deserved better from us and we let him down.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:37
@Grognard: well said, grog; my thoughts exactly. i personally really like tevez but 32 million is an unjustifiable amount for him, especially when it can go a long way to help rectify some of united’s problems. i just really hope that the club can make it up to him prior to letting him go; i’d really hate to see him leave with ill feelings.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:44
@Stephen: What do you mean do we care
, Stephen it’s a trip out to Wembley mate for the final