Jan 04
Southampton v Man Utd FA Cup Match Thread
This will be short — and will serve more like a place holder for match related talk.
Southampton will be interesting opposition as — correct me if I’m wrong — it’s the first time we meet them after relegating them to the Championship for the first time in their Premier League history.
It’s a four o’clock kick off, UK time, which is a few hours from now and I can’t really say much about our opposition. I could make the stock statement here, about this being their cup final and them parking their bus in front of their goal. But I think we know all that already.
For us though, it’s not exactly a chance for us to find our attacking groove because Fergie will look to rest the stars ahead of next week’s clash against Chelsea. But then we also have a Carling Cup fixture in midweek against Derby County. It is quite possible that the manager plays some stars for this and some for midweek — but then again, we can play this guessing game all week. So I can’t really bring an informed analysis ahead of today’s game. I don’t know why I am not too excited by the prospect of today’s game.
Oh well…
What I want to talk about briefly, before leaving you to discuss about the match, is regarding media speculation on Tevez possibly moving. I see no quotes where Fergie actually says that he’ll leave so I’ll not jump the gun. However, what Fergie says in reality is this:
“We will just work our way through it and that’s all we can do. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, we will just have to move on. It’s unfortunate, but that’s life. Carlos wants to stay. He’s happy here. I think he’s actually said that to the players.”
While there is a non-committal tone to his words it’s not an admission. It’s quite similar to the Wes Brown situation where the player wanted to stay. I’m sure, if Tevez were to demand £125,000, he wouldn’t be getting it. [Something in the 90k region is as far as I would go -- considering the apparent value Fergie has placed on him; in terms of appearances he's made this season.]
I’m sure asking this question — should Tevez be allowed to leave? — will divide opinion equally among fans. And would love to hear your response. I’d want him as long as we don’t over pay. Even 32 million is steep in my opinion. As a player he’s a wonderful asset to the club, needless to say.
Right, I’m out. Over to you…
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v QPR: Preview
- Derby Man Utd: Live!
- Aston Villa v Manchester United: Preview/Match thread
Tags: Site News
January 4th, 2009 at 13:35
Tevez is undoubtedly world class…..I wasnt happy with his arrival in the first place as didnt feel he was what we needed @ the time. As good as he is he’s a luxury player when u know 100% Rooney will play as long as hi is fit.
Having said that whats done is done & Mr.Tevez has time after time proved his class….
Guess though the question is wether you think Welbeck and probably Manucho will be good enough to step up n fill Tevez boots nxt year?
cant see us buying another stiker any time soon!?
January 4th, 2009 at 14:24
you say “should he be allowed to leave,” its not up to us or even fergie at this moment. its up to tevez. to pay £32 mil, and then give the guy 125k a week to sit on the bench is ridiculous.
No is my answer, its time to build from our youth anyway. we can use that money and invest into our youth.
January 4th, 2009 at 14:58
I think this points to one thing…. Kun Aguero. 35m should do it. Watch this space.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:11
@R: i agree.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:45
I hope that today wi will score two or more goals!
Live streams from this match, passwords: 1500
January 4th, 2009 at 15:45
@R: Wont happen, as much as i’d like it to. Tevez is as good, if not better than Aguero and if we sign Aguero (or any other top striker for that matter) we’d just be back to square 1. The only way Aguero will move here is if Ronaldo leaves. I’d love to see Maxi Rodriguez play for us and I’ve said before that if Ronaldo left he would be the best replacement. Anyway, this football manager mindset just won’t happen and it’s naive to believe otherwise. When negotiating Tevez’s fee the club made a mess of it. Liverpool spent 23m on Mascherano (6m loan and 17m fee) so why didn’t we just point at that deal as our negotiating stance?
January 4th, 2009 at 15:47
@Liam: aguero is a much better striker then tevez. who ever told you different is messing with you.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:48
If tevez contract is not made permanent then i feel we need to give the likes of campbell and wellbeck a chance. If wellbeck especially never gets give his chnace then we may as well close the academy because no1 will ever get brought through. Look at barca and some of the players they have brought through in xavi, iniesta, valdes, ouyol and more recently pique, messi, fabregas & bojan. They have faith with their youngsters and move on the ones that arent needed.
I hope wellbeck starts 2day against southampton cos then u will all see how good he is.
January 4th, 2009 at 15:50
@Matthew: i dont need telling at all. ask any of the oldies on this blog, im a firm believer off developing youth. welbeck deserves a chance.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:02
@R:
I would love to see him in a United shirt but I doubt it’ll happen. Barcelona are rumoured to make a move this summer and the player himself has said that he’d love to link up with Messi and prefers staying in Spain. Atletico probably know they won’t be able to hang on to him much longer and selling him to Real’s biggest rivals for what will undoubtedly be a ridiculous figure should make them happy. If Fergie feels like spending that kind of cash on another striker, Benzema seems more likely to me.
On another note, it looks like Mourinho is still an annoying cunt:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/mourinho-says-vidic-and-rooney-should-be-banned-1221874.html
January 4th, 2009 at 16:15
dan(u-ol), i wasnt implying anything about you, sorry if you thought i was. Its just that alot of people on here always are saying that we cant give these players a chance because we dont know how good they will be. Well we can use games like today to see. How are they ever to impress if they never play. We have given ample games to the fletchers, osheas, eagles and richardsons of this world so now its time to give campbell, wellbeck, possebon their chance too. If they dont impress then fine they can go, but if they do impress we may have a couple of gems. I struggle to believe none of them will be good enough, with possebon and wellbeck certainly impressing me. I would start those 2 2day.
I have to say though that alot of the blame comes down to fergie for not trying out these youngsters. I bet you 2day he plays rooney and giggs behind him rather than starting wellbeck. Come on lets give these lads a game, i hope he starts but i somehow doubt it.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:16
@dan(u-ol): I am proud of our clubs history of blooding youngster, like Beckham, Giggs, Gillespie, Scholes, Neville, Chadwick and Butt back in the days. Now we have players like Evans, Rafael, Fabio, Campbell, Welbeck and Gibson. Possebon in a few yaers too maybe. I hope Welbeck plays today, and I hope we score more than once for a change. UNITED!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:16
vds
neville vidic evans oshea
nani carrick andy giggs
berba welbeck
January 4th, 2009 at 16:18
@Viz: is that official?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:20
@dan(u-ol): just annouced on mutv..
January 4th, 2009 at 16:21
cool so welbeck starts.
it’ll be interesting to see if berbatov is the main striker or if he drops off welbeck.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:22
If so thats a great squad. come on welbeck!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:26
Team news:
GK: Van Der Sar
RB: Neville
CB: Vidic
CB: Evans
LB: Oshea
RM: Nani
)
CM: Carrick
CM: Anderson(yeey
LM: Giggs
ST: Berbatov
ST: Welbeck
January 4th, 2009 at 16:26
subs: pig rooney park rafa gibson possebon fletcher
great management give some of the first teamers a rest before the chelski game…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:27
thank god wellbeck starts, dont really know where he will play tho, he usually plays as the front man so i guess berba will play behind even tho i think this isnt his best position but oh well. You guys just watch him go, this kid really is an excellent prospect and i hope he gets a goal or 2 to show his quality. Happy to also see nani get a game at long last.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:29
I like that team. Its the best midfield combination we have, of Andy and Carrick. I really hope Nani does well today, it will prove wether the arrival of Tosic get the wished effect. I hope he score/gets an assist, for his and for the teams sake. Welbeck starts, really happy aboput that. I believe in giving youngester a chance, and from what Ive seen from Welbeck he is the real deal. The last time United scored more than one goal in was against Stoke. Welbeck netted then.
Maybe its a sign, and I hope we score 5 again. 
Wishful thinking, maybe, but I am allowed to dream. United should play well today and we might see some goals flying in.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:30
giggs on the wing?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:32
New twist in Tevez saga! I think this is gonna continue for a looong time in the future.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:33
They are just doing the fa cup draw now and we have been drawn against spurs. We always get prem teams nearly every round.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
We get Spurs in the 4th round…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
@Matthew: home or away?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:34
man utd vs tottenham could play em up to 4 times this season!
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
thats if we win today remember.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
RedDevilEddy, if we win 2day which we should we will play spurs at old trafford which is good cos im always confident in the home games.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:39
i think it’s a good draw we’re at home…
January 4th, 2009 at 16:41
Where is everyone going to be watching the match on the internet?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:48
Is it Christmas again? Nani and Anderson start! What the…
I’m officially excited, and great to see Wellbeck get a start too.
I smell goals today! Fingers crossed
Come on the lads, Andy to bag his first today, definately!
Peas out.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:52
pls upload a link for to watch the game..thanks
January 4th, 2009 at 16:53
anyone have a link to the game?
January 4th, 2009 at 16:53
@Sean: redlog.pl are streaming it I believe.
January 4th, 2009 at 16:54
http://www.ustream.tv/videoplayerpopup/channel/426291 [code=1500]
http://www.justin.tv/iraqgoals10/popout [code=1500]
http://www.justin.tv/iraqgoals12/popout [code=1500]
enjoy! top one is pretty good
January 4th, 2009 at 17:05
@m34ch: I managed to get the kick off before it went down … lol.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:09
here’s a sopcast link that works:
sop://broker.sopcast.com:3912/6816 = English
January 4th, 2009 at 17:10
nt working 4 me. any one else got a live stream
January 4th, 2009 at 17:14
berbatov is a god
January 4th, 2009 at 17:16
has anyone seen Welbeck’s left foot? It went missing in the box there.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:17
http://redlog.pl/2009/01/04/wideo-z-meczu-southampton-fc-manchester-united/
this one works for me
January 4th, 2009 at 17:20
NO HE IS GOD OMG
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
WELBECCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
welbeck, what a player!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
WELCOME BACK i mean WELBECK
January 4th, 2009 at 17:22
Berbatov looks the business today. Yes! and we have been missing Nani’s corners. Really whips them in.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:25
@Liam: no, but i’ve seen his head though
January 4th, 2009 at 17:30
Welbeck has scored. I have to follow live text so it might be a bit behind.viva youth players
January 4th, 2009 at 17:32
It wasn’t exactly a great goal. Anyone would have scored it. He was lucky it wasn’t offside though. Berba is being given acres of space. O’Shea has been good too.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:35
Anderson has been rubbish btw.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:36
that must be evans first mistake of the season!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:36
@Liam:
tell me how?
January 4th, 2009 at 17:37
carrick should’ve scored. what a tasty goal that would have been.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:38
bit harsh for a red but just seen the replay he deserves the red!!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:39
10 vs 11. Cmon Man Utd, get your scoring boots on now.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:39
That would’ve broken a lesser mans leg!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:41
@Liam: probably some1 like cisse he broke both his legs from running!!
January 4th, 2009 at 17:42
@dan(u-ol): every time he gets it he either passes it back to the defense or tries a Hollywood through ball and loses it
January 4th, 2009 at 17:45
@Liam: well some of his passes have gone to sunderland, but some have gone to unite players.
what would you prefer, a player who tries Hollywood passes or a player that only passes it back/to the side?
January 4th, 2009 at 17:47
Why isnt Manucho on the bench, if Welbeck does need to come off?! He isn’t very likely to play Gibso and Posse, but Gibson/Posse and Manucho is possible.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:50
@dan(u-ol): well that’s pretty much what he’s done. He must’ve passed it to Evans about 10 times. He has only tried to be Hollywood a few times and it’s gone wrong. He seems to be playing it a lot safer than he usually does. That was a good run there but no end product.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:52
welbeck reminds me of henry
January 4th, 2009 at 17:54
@Liam: that was down to good defending.
welbeck was unlucky not to get a second.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:54
Pretty dull stuff – is Possebon ready?
That said, I love watching Carrick and Berbatov – really creative. Please score some goals.
January 4th, 2009 at 17:56
Unusually good stream in English:
http://booyatv.net:9999/;stream.nsv
Open in VLC player: File-Open Network Stream-Enter the above address at HTTP
January 4th, 2009 at 17:58
i would take off carrick for possebon. not that carrick is having a bad game, but anderson needs games under his belt.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:02
@magno: a quality stream, but very much not english!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:05
@Traverse: Brush up on your Italian at half time
Commentary is in English 
January 4th, 2009 at 18:07
I apologise, the half time show was in Italian, but english coms.. seriously good quality!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:10
should have let anderson take it
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
@magno: Great sound, no picture
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
9.8 for the finish of his portugese flick!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:11
little man nani with a smoooth penalty. riot please? Welbeck almost scored again!!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:12
@DB9: Have you opened it in VLC player?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:13
I didnt think Welbeck was this quick…that was a pen
January 4th, 2009 at 18:16
The guy doing the comms on sky sports Italy is the biggest mug I think I have ever heard talk about football, and I’ve heard Keegan talk.
Nothing was a penalty, the sending off wasn’t a sending off, its all the refs fault blah blah blah.
chump.
Now he has started on Evans not being a good player…..
January 4th, 2009 at 18:17
Agreed dan. With 11 against 10 men we can afford to take off a first team player and give youth a chance to shine. For once Ferguson has selected an appropriate team using a combination of the golden oldies, youth and first team players lacking match fitness such as Berba.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:17
@magno: Now working, awesome quality!!! Thanks.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:18
@Sean: Why isnt Manucho on the bench, if Welbeck does need to come off?! He isn’t very likely to play Gibso and Posse, but Gibson/Posse and Manucho is possible.
What do I know ay?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:19
@Traverse: Yeah, sometimes its better when you can only get Chinese commentary, how could the ref not give that penalty…
January 4th, 2009 at 18:20
@taehr: WTF, Anderson should have taken it? Taehr mi man, it would have been skied with Andie – sorry
. Little man – HE DID GOOD 
. I got the FLU bloody virus, my mate got my Southampton ticket. How upset am I, when mi Little man got his first game in what seems a bloody long time – sick.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:21
Good too see Possebon come on for giggs and get a big cheer, brilliant to see him back in action.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:39
what is gibson’s appeal? i haven’t seen him play before, but he’s not had one good touch today – given the ball away every time!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:42
Berba is enjoing on the field and is our main player this season alongside with our rocksolid difence… …Ronaldo is second choice in our play and that is so good becouse we have this extra dimension in our game with berbA….Pure class!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:44
@bildani: …and then scores. Isn’t it the way?
January 4th, 2009 at 18:46
Nani’s been very good today. Nice crosses and excellent skills. Shame he is such a pussy.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:48
I was about to make exactly the same comment about Gibson! Possebom have also been underwhelming so far. I hope he scores as well!
January 4th, 2009 at 18:52
nani is so selfish
January 4th, 2009 at 18:55
OK this is a total embarrassment. Yes you are reading correctly. I would like to know what this team needs to do to eliminate their ineptitude in making a telling pass in the 18 yard box and when they manage to do so, why we cannot seem to hit the net? Southampton is truly as terrible as advertised. They are awful and with one man down, we should be trying for double figures. But instead we are stuck with 3 goals as I write this. It has been years since United has had that kind of room to run with the ball and pass it. Sothy’s marking has been non-existent and yet, we find ways to lose the ball or make a meal of a great counterattacking break. I just don’t get it. Berbatov has had loads of space to run with the ball, and when he does, nobody follows him in support and gets into an advantageous position. I mean if we cannot destroy at tosser side like this, we must really ask whether we have what it takes to win the Prem and the CL. Personally we are just not up for the job this season. We are definitely the gang that cannot shoot straight and team that presses the panic button whenever they are in a position to do something. Also, I don’t know what is wrong with Johnny Evans today but if we were playing any team from the Prem, we would have been in trouble. It’s just fortunate that every time he has been burned, the Sothy players have made a mess of their chances.
I am a little perplexed and confused over the starting lineup against such an agricultural outfit. Why has Berbatov been played for the entire game? Does he not deserve a rest? Why was Rafael not given some experience playing in this game? And why was EVDS wasted against a team like this? Certainly playing Pig would have been beneficial to him as well as giving EVDS’s old legs a break. I am so tired of trying to find a comprehensible understanding to Fergie’s way of thinking this season. At least he had the common sense to play Anderson, Nani and then give Possebon and Gibson a chance. But please tell me why he did not play Welbeck for the full game and rest Berbatov when he brought on Rooney? Inquiring minds would like to know.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:57
@Craig Mc: Nani was pretty damned decent today however, he still needs to make better decisions in the box. Some of his passes were the wrong ones to make but he still showed some class and energy that was nice to see.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:58
seems welbeck is our only striker capable of scoring.
January 4th, 2009 at 18:59
nani showed that although frustrating, is a lot better then park!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
@Grognard: I know Grog, on 5 live who usually are majorly down on United, they were saying Nani has so much talent and artistry, and that if United worked with him on decision making, he would be well out there. Even moan-a-lot on 5 said that Nani worked the wide berth and side really well today. What I liked is he had the balls to take the penalty, which if he had missed, the lad would never had heard the last of United fan feckin grumbles. Go on Little Man
.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
Grognard Berbatov was playing because he missed all of the World Club Cup with a virus and needs games to get his fitness back. Welbeck got injured before halftime so maybe Fergie thought it was best to tae him off. I don’t understand the EVDS decision and I guess Neville was played because Fergie wants Neville to get games under his belt seeing as Neville was injured for a year.
Yeah we should have hit a cricket score against these boys but there seems to be something about us which refuses to be ruthless. I have fond memories of that game in Rome where after sewing the tie up after 20 minutes we continued to attack and attack and attack.
We made around a million chances and only scored 3. No wonder against better opposition when we only create half a dozen chances we fail to score any.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:02
@dan(u-ol): Its an insult to football that Park is preffered over Nani.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:04
Where is Fabio? I thought he is over the shoulder injury.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:06
Nani is still a disaster. Kieran Richardson used to look good against rubbish sides, too. Every time we play a scrub squad in the FA or Carling Cups all you Nani apologists come out of the woodwork singing his praises. Of course he does well against a 10-man, relegation bound, Championship side. He had about 11 seconds on the ball every touch. The wings were absolutely abandoned.
Anderson had what impact today? He’s a fine player, but I simply fail to see the difference he makes in the side. He’s a possession player, who is a decent tackler and a fine pacemaker. But aside from making the obvious 6 yard pass, he lacks vision at times and can completely disappear from matches. Plus, and not to beat a dead horse, he couldn’t find the net with GPS, a compass and a tour guide.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:06
Craig…remember the CL final? Grognard,he didnt rest Berbatov because he had plenty when the team was in Japan..Rafael will probably play Carling Cup and so will Welbeck, who was terrfic…
January 4th, 2009 at 19:08
Three cheers for nani… Not. But hey, lets sugar coat.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:09
@johnsom33: Exactly what are you pointing to? What has Nani done this season that is worthy of inclusion in the side against any club in the top half of the table? He is the consummate ball-stopper. He is a selfish player with absolutely regrettable decision-making ability. It is impossible for him to spend less than five seconds on the ball.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:10
@Grognard: Grog, I think its because we have a game on Wednesday against Derby and maybe he is going to give Welbeck another go in that. But 5 live were saying Welbeck had a knock, so that may be why. Also if Tev is back, maybe Rooney and Tev will be playing Wednesday, and not Berba. Berba has missed 2 or 3 games, so perhaps he needed the full game. He didn’t exactly have to put much energy in to tire him did he?.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:11
@Traverse: Is this the guy with a slightly squeaky voice? The same who said that Possebon and Gibson were unimpressive since they came on?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:11
Just a few things take out of todays game:
1. Giggs is past it. Sorry, he is a legend and all and i love the guy but he is definitely finished. He just looked lost and wasnt involved in hardly any of the action. It wasnt 1 of his worst performances to date but it is painful to watch him at times seeing how he is playing now to what he once was. He is now 35 and surely he himself must be noticing his performances have been very poor this year. Sorry, he is a legend and all but he must retire soon and let some1 else take over from him.
2. Anderson should always play with carrick over fletcher. We look so much more dangerous with these 2 in the midfield instead of it seems fergusons preffered pairing of carrick and fletcher. Its not new news that ando offers much more than fletcher but also as a pairing the ando carrick pairing looks excellent. Carrick in my opinion had a decent game today not his usual high standard but he still had 1 great opportunity which he should have scored and also a couple of half chances he maybe should have converted. Anderson was his usual self, running around spraying the passes and also should have scored early in the 1st half. We looked so much better in the middle of midfield with these 2 in it and i really hope ferguson isnt stupid and changed this because they to me are our best 2 pairing at the minute.
3. Wellbeck is just what we need and looks a super talent. I have been bigging up this kid for a year and if you look at his stats for the 1st team so far it reads, 2 games and 2 goals. Yes his goal 2day was a simple 1 and any1 would have scored it but it was good he was in the box anyway even tho he was offside. He stays upfront and doesnt drift back which makes him different from all our other strikers we have. As some1 else stated above he reminds me a bit of thierry henry, he has great pace, is tall (adding another option to his game), and i hope we see alot more of him in the 2nd half of the season.
These were the points i came to from watching the game 2day, but a very decent performance in the end and im also happy to see possebon getting a game.
bildani comment 84, i said this a couple of weeks ago and i got the usual crap that he worked hard and is young so we dont know how he will progress blah blah. Yes he scored 2day but i cant see what else he does. Ive got no problem with him playing in games like 2day when the game is already won but he is usually always on the bench every game including premier league games. He gets in the squad over possebon who i rate much higher. I think most people can see he isnt good enough, maybe he just gets played to raise his value so we can get more for him when we sell him?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:14
@95 If so, I want to insult football every time we play.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:15
@Grognard: I guess there’s no pleasing you Grog? Somehow, you are managing to put a downspin on a positive result…
This is a team that has scored 4 goals in it’s last 6 games and now they manage to score three in a game, they cannot even receive some deserved praise and recognition? You talk about destroying the ‘tosser’ side, well, Liverpool, Chelski and Arsenal all played ‘tosser’ sides and the results were respectively as follows: 2-0, 1-1, 3-1. Out of all those results, we had the most convincing win, both in chances, goals and dominance. Don’t know what you were expecting, it’s not common to see 6-0 drubbings of these lower sides in the cup as they usually save their all for the BIG teams and most times, it is actually harder to get past them.
You also complain about the line-up, maybe it’s because we have two more games this week with the latter being a clash with Chelski. Berbatov wil not play in the carling cup midweek, hence was given a full run out because he will then have a week to rest. Rafael looks to play in the carling cup and Gaz, like Berba has been given some match time and will have a week’s rest for Chelski. Same goes for VDS. Welbeck in all likelihood will feature in midweek so was taken off early so as to prevent burnout. It’s all about rotation mate, i’m sure you know that. Cheer up man, we have gotten thru and have a home tie in the nxt round, so all is looking gravy.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:16
Exactly right Patrick…i couldnt count how many times he failed to get past that championship ship right back…He tries so many stupid balls and when he should shoot he tries a pass…Hes now what 22 and still doesnt think straight..he looked good(to some) today because he was slighty better than usual..and we were playing a poor side with ten men…But wow Championship side or not Berbatov can pass!!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:19
@colver: Havta agree with your appraisal of things. And slowly but surely, Van der Sar has been looking more and more like his own self. Perhaps it takes to play him agaisnt such minnows, but I donh’t mind his inclusion.
For the first time in recent memory, I think that Fergie got his line-up and substitutions right.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:21
@100 never mind patrick, we still have our young iniesta and xavi aka possebon and gibson.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:23
@Grognard: VDS couldn’t have been more rested than playing between the pipes in a match like today’s. If the old man is beyond standing still for 90 minutes he should hang up the boots.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:31
About Nani (since it seems to be the favored topic today), paradoxically, I agree with most of what has been said: that he was dangerous and deserves his place in the stating line up in front of Park, but that he was also very frustrating in his decision making today. And that was not on the odd possession; on many times he had the ball he didn’t choose the right option to keep the danger alive.
This contrasts with Dimitar the fucking count Berbatov, who was hands doen our best player today; distilling passes of outrageous quality; heck I wish I was better at using superlatives here.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what the Tosic competition factor will affect LMN (c)Craig.
On another note, sorry Eddy but Anderson was abysmal in the first half, mainly due to his advanced AM positioning when it was clear we needed and enforcer. He was more like his old self in the 2nd half, though.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:34
Btw, Tevez has denied all that rubbish media speculation about his wages!! This is the problem I have with the media; they know they have the power to substantially sway people’s judgements and views, hence they should be responsible enough to print honest and unbiased news. I mean, that rubbish tevez ’salary demands’ story already even got some United fans questioning Tevez and putting him in their bad books. He was made to look greedy and mercenary in nature when it’s quite the opposite without him even sat down to start negotiations yet. I know we should all take journalism with a pinch of salt but isn’t the whole point of journalism to report factual news?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:35
@johnsom33: Its an insult to football that the more in- form player is chosen over the more talented but woefully out of form player??? Yes please, let this insult continue.
@Grognard: Maybe a 10-0 drubbing would have pleased you??? Seriously, its a cup, performance wise, we were great, goal difference don’t count here, as long as the match wasn’t a bore and we score enough to get us true. As for Berbatov, we needed some experience up front and he brought that since he’s played the least out of the 3. I agree with you on VDS though, I’m a little puzzled at Fergie’s decision to play him, I was expecting to see Kuszack or Foster.
@ROOOOONEY: Yes i’m thinking the same, kinda a mixture of Kanu and Henry.
@taehr: Lol, seriously??? We should let a player who is undoubtedly good but looks scared in front of goal take a pen??? Can you imagine how much more damage it’d do to his confidence if he misses?
January 4th, 2009 at 19:41
@Patrick: Moan, Moan, feckin moan, Nani was good today, end of
. If our strikers could get on the end of some of the corners he whipped in, we would have doubled our score – but alas. If you want to gripe mate, gripe about our strikers who once again missed so many chances. But personally speaking, I don’t think anyone should be griping today 
.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:45
@Grognard: couldn’t agree with you more, grognard. according to the beebs’s chris bevan at st mary’s: Manchester United have totally dominated and could probably have scored more goals had they felt like it.”
scored more goals had they felt like it?! little does he know that 3 goals is all we could muster against a 10 man team facing relegation in the championship, and that too after being gifted a goal (if not two)!
January 4th, 2009 at 19:48
@RD…yes!!!he didnt touch the ball in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE final extra time(thats much more pressure init?) final and he smashed the ball into the net..think of what it could have done for his confidence rather than not.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:49
@Rd: FFS, he didn’t play like a woefully out of form player today
. And this after not playing FOR HOW MANY GAMES, and having a further 7-10 days break with no training. The lad did good, but some can’t live with that. Another thing, why did our team send him up to take the penalty kick, because our strikers were shit scared they would miss. It was a well taking penalty, and like they said on 5 live, Nani would improve with any other team his decision making, because he would get REGULAR games. So I have no sympathy for you whiners – sorry.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:49
To any1 that reads my posts they will know that in the nani/park debate i am firmly in the nani camp but let me just talk a bit about both of them.
Park is your loveable energetic terrier kind of player. He pleases the fans because of his heart, loyalty, down to earth attitude and energy. These are all good attributes to have in the game, things that you could say some of the top players in the world do not do. I see park as an excellent squad player, he is something of a fan favourite in some parts because of all described above. I would have no problem playing him against chelsea in a week and against inter at the san siro because these are the games when you cannot go all out attacking or else you will just get killed down that side and could end up conceeding 3 goals.
The only problem with park is ability wise he is extremely average. He is probably top 10 standard but would be more suited getting into the everton team week in week out but because of his added attributes he finds himself in our squad. Put it this way, if he didnt have these attributes would he ever find himself anywhere near our squad, i doubt it. Park will get 6/7 out of 10 every game, will run around but he never has a sensational game, just a normal good game except barca last year where he was sensational.
Compare this to nani where yes he can be incredibly frustrating but he can also look world class. Arsenal 4-0 win in the cup last year comes to mind. When he plays well he is an excellent player and is much better than park ability wise i think every1 would agree. I agree tho the problem is he doesnt perform like this enough but he is a young player, and surely by getting a good run of games he will become more consistent wont he, how will benching him ever help.
As i said about park rating each game, nani is the opposite. His ratings will be different every week. Some games he may get 8/10, others probably closer to 4/10. For me however i would rather take the risk on a player who your not sure about and could produce something magical, over some1 who you know will just be like always in park. My point is with consecutive games comes consistency, if nani had played half the games park did he would be twice as good as he is now. If nani was to leave tomorrow there would be a line of 10 big clubs wanting his signiture, where as if park was allowed to leave there would be the odd english team like boro wanting him but mostly asian teams probably.
There is good and bad in both players but for me i would select the unpredictable yet sometimes magical nani over the same old same old try but no end product park.
January 4th, 2009 at 19:54
@Rd: Oh if only Rooney was another Henry – I’d love him to be as prolific, and I mean that sincerely, because he can do most other things. If his scoring ratio was the same as the rest of his game – he would win Ballon de whatever EVERY YEAR.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:01
@Matthew: Spurs, Arsenal and one or two Spanish clubs already want him. Wenger wanted him before we got him. I will always say the lad should move on elsewhere, because of the attitude of some of the so called United faithful toward him. Like they said on 5 today, the lad has so much to offer, but it is not being matured at United. If some of you don’t like that, complain to 5 live not me.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:05
Craig Mc, yep i know, i gotta say sometimes i feel some of the players we have would have progressed so much better had they been working under wenger, im not saying hes a better manager just that with certain players he can develop them much better.
I just cannot believe that park gets in the team ahead of him just because he trys hard and busts a gut for us. Well i could do that, i could run around and never complain when im not getting games so does that mean that i should be in the 1st team. It really is pathetic, have our standards slipped so bad that we put players in the 1st team because they try hard and run around alot. Nani could be world class if he was first team, park will never be. That sort of settles the argument.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:08
@Gabriel: Gabriel it is Tev’s camp that are lying mate. Fergie said on MUTV for everyone to hear, that they have been trying to get this deal sorted forever, and getting nowhere. He said that United may have to move on – so Tev is lying when he said they haven’t had contacts yet, or Fergie is LYING when he says they most definately have and for a while. Also United haven’t denied the wage demands as being untrue, so I will wait until they do, before I just take as truth what Tev’s lot are saying. The media can lie yes, but we all know players and especially their agents most assuredly can too.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:15
@Matthew: There are some games that Park does a really good job for United Matthew. His game against Barca in the OT leg was just superb. He bled for us that night, as did Tev. So they all have there merits mate. Some fans love watching the Park’s week in week out, others would love to watch and see the likes of the Nani’s brought on to all that they could be. That is not going to happen for Nani at OT though, I really believe that Matthew. The chanting and singing for Anderson today from the OT faithful, and really as Liam said, HE WASN’T ALL THAT. Pitiful really from the fans.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:22
Craig mc, yeah i get your point mate. I am a guy who likes to see us attacking from all sides but i also realise that you cant do that every game. Away from home against the top teams and in games where we may be on the back foot (europe especially) i would definitely start park. But it is just madness to play him in games like boro, sunderland and the like at home. It really is pathetic playing him in these games because we dont need the defensive side to our game in these matches so park really should make way for nani in these games. In the games i just spoke about above we only won 1-0, had nani started those 2 games we probably would have won much more. It is seeing the likes of the parks and fletchers of this world in those kind of home games that makes me wonder at times if fergie is going crazy like grognard has said in the past. That or maybe the lack of a class assistant.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:23
@Patrick: FFS, you should go and take a fucking good look at last seasons end of season review, and SEE the big games Nani either scored or made very good assists for us. Are you Nani haters feckin blind or what. Nani apologists my arse. If you want to see Nani not playing against what you call the lesser sides and doing good, then Fergie should put him in against the top sides as he did last season. He never let anyone down, and if you think he did, then you are blind/biased indeed.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:32
Jb,
, I apologise Bro, because I promised I would calm down the scraps a bit, but some people get my heckles feckin right up. I don’t want to get into a bollocking from RR, so I better cool it a bit. But I tell you mate, give me and a few Nani rallying United fans some time with the lad, and we would build his moral up so much, and encourage his talent, he would become a feckin world beater, just let some of us Salford lads get to him 
.
January 4th, 2009 at 20:38
Berba was amazing that whole game. Worked very hard. Evans was shaky. Anderson is terrrrrrrible, a disaster. Why do you guys like him so much?
January 4th, 2009 at 20:43
To put it simply, Nani has tremendously more upside than Park, and thus we should give him the games to cultivate it rather than settle w/ Park.
To put it simply, Nani is a THREAT. He is a shooter, he has great vision, puts in a great corner and the ability to beat his man. He is everything that you could ever want in a winger. How many of these skills does Park possess. I’ll give you some time to think about it…
*plays Jeopardy theme*
NONE! Park possesses none of these skills. It’s just that simple. Playing Park effectively cripples 1 half of the field attack-wise because he offers NOTHING in offense. It pains me to see the skills of Nani being wasted on the bench to the point where I’d almost rather him go to another team. Because it’s obvious that SAF idiotically prefers Park. And the signing of Tosic only confirms this.
I want the most dangerous side on the field possible. That means playing Nani and Anderson, players of true genius over Park and Fletch (although Fletch isnt that bad) for better or for worse.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:09
@MUFC Fan in America: Wish you were on Man Utd’s coaching staff mate. Guess some eyes see what some eyes don’t. Thing is though, should we be relying on our wingers to get a lot of goals?. I believe if Fergie gave the same input to Nani or Park as he does to Ronnie, then both of them could come on as goalscorers. I mean he pushed Ronnie to develop the goalscoring side of his game. Still, truth is, we don’t know what Fergie is saying or not saying, sooooooo
. All I know is Nani did good for us last year when he played more regularly. Some players need to play regularly to build up confidence and form. Others like Park can just come off the bench and with so much energy, can be seen to be more in the game. Berba often seems not to be in the game, but to the trained eye, what he does with the ball and off the ball is seen plainly. Thats life Bro.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:25
@MUFC Fan in America: i just had a thought…. suppose Ronaldo leaves in the summer… free place on the right wing… perfect for Nani right? so then leaves the Left free for Tosic and Park finally finds his place on the bench…. perhaps the signing of tosic isn’t to replace Nani, but to replace Ronaldo… but doing it this way, it means we don’t get ripped off by anyone when they know we have the money from ronaldo. and if ronaldo leaves it could have the same affect that henry leaving arse had… not the not winning one.. but the freeing up of the team play/goal scoring
January 4th, 2009 at 21:39
@Craig Mc: I meant Wellbeck not Rooney
@Craig Mc: My out of form comment wasn’t on todays game, he’s been off-form this season, he had a decent but not great game today, still showed why he’s so frustrating to watch cus he simply doesn’t have a footballing brain to go with the massive amount of talent he has and that has nothing to do with not playing regularly. I too hope he gets a run in the team for a while. And I have no problems with him taking the kick, with the players in the team, I wasn’t really expecting anyone else to.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:42
has anybody else noticed when andy plays, we score goals? he must be doing something right!
January 4th, 2009 at 21:45
PS: RR can do increase the time limit between when you post and when you’re allowed to edit?? I don’t seem to be able to edit comments after 30secs or something.
January 4th, 2009 at 21:50
@Rd: Thanks for that mate, but to be honest, you cannot really say that he has been off form this season, when he hasn’t played enough games, and the games he has played mate, were quite a few only sub appearances. Would you say Ronnie has a footballing brain Bro?, because I wouldn’t particularly, but he has unbelievable skill and accuracy at goalscoring. He would rather have a shot himself that pass it to someone in a much better position, because he has been so good, and has a taste for goals. Nani last season made some great decisive passes Rd, and therein got a really high assists ratio. I just watched him on sky news, scored the penalty and went running to the United fans, he just so much wants to be accepted and loved mate, and I feel it would help him tremendously if he was in fans hearts as the other portugeezers are. Shame he isn’t mate.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:19
@Patrick: A bit old now, but I remember Nani beating the shit out of Arsenal in last year’s FA cup. (I actually thought they were going to send somebody into him after his juggling tricks). Nani has skill, but way too much with the rolling around after fouls. Good to see him back in the side. I think he deserves (and will get) a run in the team.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:25
@dan(u-ol): Exactly! Finally someone else than me sees that. Except for the game against LDQ, we usually have scored 2 or more when Andy plays.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:27
@taehr: Fine, I would still not risk Berbatov or Rooney against a minnow like Southampton. Manucho should have come off the bench. By the way, weren’t they supposed to recall Frazier Campbell come January?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:34
@Gabriel: Perhaps it’s more a case of you please far too easily. Damn it, there is nothing wrong with wanting your team to play up to their potential. If so this should have been 7-0 or 8-0 result. Instead they had all the space in the world and still couldn’t find the back of the net. Nobody should wonder anymore why we can only manage a goal against Prem competition. This game should have had a very embarrassing scoreline which would have shown how dominating United were. The fact that you are pleased only accentuates my point about English football supporters having the tolerance to settle for trash over substance. Watch a Bundesliga game once in a while and see what you are missing. English football is grossly overrated and unattractive to watch. And when the flagship team can only score 3 frakken goals against a useless and completely incompetent opponents, then it’s time to examine things a little more closely and call a spade a spade. United is a team that has lots of style but no substance. Incredibly incapable of scoring goals at a rate that justifies their overall dominance.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:37
Im happy aboutt odays game. We finally scored more than a goal, and when youngsters also score it is only better. Gibson, Welbeck, Nani, the future of United I feel. We scored 3 goals today, even though we should have scored more. Carrick missed a big chance, Berba doesnt shoot when he is unmarked on 5 yards, Wazza had a marvellous volley after flicking the ball over defenders head, Nani missed a good chance and even Welbeck could have had more goals if not for the keeper. Even thoug Dannys goal was offside, its these margins that wins you games in the FA cup. Imagine us having this kind of luck against Pompey last year, then we would have won the cup for sure. Ronaldo would have gotten the penalty, Evras shot may have gone in and Johnson wouldnt have cleared off the line. Like Pompey did last season, we are already bound to win the cup. Weve got our name on it already! Luck win the cup, and I have proof! In 2005 we missed heaven knows how many chances, hit the post 3 times and sdhould have had a penalty for Laurens foul on Ronaldo. In 2006 we lost against Liverpool, but amybe we wouldnt if VDS had punched the ball out for a corner instead of in via the post. In 2007 we should have had a goal from Giggs, the ball was clearly inside and the ref didnt blow for a foul. Last season we all know what happend against Pompey.
But we can see that already from the first game we get the luck we need. We got a goal from an offside, the opposition got a red card(thank God Vida is okey!) and we scored from a really, really soft penalty. I am not saying that we didnt deserve to win today, Im jsut saying that we are getting the luck a winning team needs. Where was this against Arsenal or Liverpool in the league when we conceded soft goals(Liverpool) and missed tons of chances(Arsenal)? I think its time to be happy, even though I start school tomorrow. 
Ive enjoyed my holidays to an extent, and I hope this year will prove great for us all. May United to well in every competition, and I do well with footy, health and school. May 2009 be the best year in history!
January 4th, 2009 at 22:38
@Patrick: Still, it was a game against a very weak opponent. He should have had the day off and it would have been important to give PIG some playing time to keep him sharp, just in case EVDS does get injured in the near future.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:39
@Grognard: No, Frazier wont come back until the end of the season. Just fake reports from the media, Fergie is pleased with Welbeck, Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:44
so let me get this straight. Because Nani had a halfway decent game against a Championship side’s youth team he is suddenly the best player in the world? Park plays over Nani because he is a better player than Nani. I’m sorry if as I think Matthew said Nani having one ok game every 3 games and being rubbish the rest of the time isn’t what I want in a player. Maybe he should go to Arsenal because they are like that. If Park had played today he would have destroyed Southampton IMO. John O’Shea was making through balls from just outside the box. Where is his plaudits? Gibson, a CM made to play on the right was able to get into the box and score. I don’t think he is better than Anderson because of it(Anderson was rubbish today though). I’m sorry but you can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t put in the effort you get nowhere. Ronaldo for instance, doesn’t really have a great football brain. His talent is not natural, it was beaten into him by pushing himself to the limit so what he lacks in technical ability he makes up for with his sheer athleticism.
On Possebon, I don’t get why he is so highly rated. Every time I’ve seen him i’ve seen none of his supposed composure on the ball. He lost the ball today with his first touch and that is something I’ve seen him do in the past. So how come he is hailed as potentialy world class yet somebody like Gibson who puts in as good a level of performance if not better is dismissed as not being good enough. Gibson is an international player which is something I doubt Possebon will ever be able to achieve. For some reason people seem to give more slack to our Latin players than all the other nationalities. When Giggs or Neville loses the ball they are ‘past it’ but if Nani or Rafael loses it it’s ok because they have potential. I judge players on what I’ve seen from them, not what I might see if this happens or that happens. I’m sorry if that upsets some of the people who see Anderson and Nani as never doing anything when they are on the pitch. Tell me apart from rolling in a penalty what Nani did today to warrant being first choice?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:45
@bildani: Exactly. Well said. A ten man tosser side that was ripe picking and that should have been our bitch for the evening. For me it was more like a 1-0 game and I for one felt that we had more space to perform than I have seen in years. These guys were terrible at marking and we still couldn’t score at will. Man, is this team a broken entity offensively. We are clueless and even when we get a great scoring chance, we make a meal out of it. Just not satisfactory and completely unacceptable. Why? Because one can read and examine what the team’s major problems are from a game like this and then understand fully why we can’t score more than a goal against better competition. And it just doesn’t seem to be improving. It just seems hopeless right now because in twenty years I cannot recall the team going four months with such anemic offensive output. Maybe it’s not panic time because for the most part we are getting the results, but my question to Fergie is how long do we have to wait before this team explodes and plays up to their capabilities and potential?
January 4th, 2009 at 22:48
@Mountfort: I remember that Arsenal game too mate, unfortunately some of the Nani dissidents amongst United fans don’t
.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:50
@Matthew: I for one prefer a player who suffers from inconsistency but has moments of sheer brilliance over a player who is consistently average and offers nothing tangible to the team’s offensive ambitions. If Nani is 4/10 in a game at least he is trying to make things happen and in many cases may still set up a goal or score one. Park is always a 6/10 and does nothing to help the team in the attacking zone. He is the fifth defender on a team that doesn’t need a fifth defender. Give me Nani every game over Park. A LW player should not be concentrating on defensive duties over offensive duties ever. Park is rubbish and I for one am not easily seduced with work ethic and heart. Those factors speak loudly only when it’s clear a player lacks skill. Skill is what matters at that position and Park is a liability in attack.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:51
rooney was world class. he works hard no matter what the score is or who is playing. did you see him getting everyone going when their play was unacceptable? Berbatov was amazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing. he worked very hard throughout the whole game. Anderson is TERRIBLE. what do you guys like so much about him? he cant string a good pass together unless it is going backwards. i maybe saw one or two good passes out wide to nani, switching balls. he also missed about 20 to berbatov by at least a yard or two..
January 4th, 2009 at 22:52
Another thing is that yes Berba had a good passing game today. However, is it too much to ask from our 30m striker to have a good scoring game for once. There was 3 or 4 times in the game today where every other striker who costs 25m+ would have at least worked the keeper and probably scored and Berbatov manages to not even take a shot in these instances. Give me an Eto’o or Torres anyday
January 4th, 2009 at 22:55
@Liam: Are you fecking blind too Liam – Nani sent the corner onto the head of O’Shea like a guided missile to its intended target, and that brought the first goal. He stepped up to take the penalty, and that’s just for starters. But then, blind as blind can be will support the likes of our strikers who have been so feckin inept this season, that we are lucky to be where we are in the league. Grog is right about our strike force, especially the ones that you feckin love so much Liam.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:56
@dan(u-ol): its not because of anderson. no no no. have you seen his shooting? my grandmother is better at finishing. and his passes definitely arent the reason. hes had one all year to rooney.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: i stopped reding when you said park was a better player than…
park and “better player than” does not belong in the same sentance.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: i agree berba needs to be more selfish and shoot more. he does not do that at all. and he needs to have more games like today where he goes after it and wants to create everything rather than just sitting back until it gets to him to create something.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@Liam: No, and its not too much to ask our other 30 million striker Rooney either
. I would rather have Torres other than Rooney too sometimes.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:57
@dan(u-ol): In truth Anderson didn’t have a great game today. Yes we scored 3 goals against a team that is second from the bottom one league below us. WOW! What an accomplishment? We were terrible in our finishing and chance creation. Just awful but nobody sees it that way because we won. Big Whoopie! We beat frakken Southampton by 3-0. Just awesome.
For me this game just made crystal clear the thoughts I have had all year long. Offensively we are the reincarnation of the Keystone Cops. We are painfully useless and inept. Thank God for our defense, although they sucked at times today also. Fortunately we were playing muppets who were even more inept offensively than us.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:58
@dan(u-ol): I like your humour Dan(u)ol
.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:58
Grognard, thank god you understand me. I would rather have a player who is unpredictable but can be absolutely sensational over a player who is consistently ok every game. If nani had played in all the games park had we would have probably scored an extra 10 goals minimum and nani would have improved greatly. Instead we play a player who contributes very little attacking wise and who is always the same, never excellent, never poor just always ok. That is not enough for me.
January 4th, 2009 at 22:59
@RedDevilEddy: Mate, today we scored only three goals against a pub side. I am personally embarrassed. Southampton looked awful and we still could not finish and break them down with a barrage of goals.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:00
@Liam: you really, really dont like berbatov. its now getting to a stage where it looks pathetic. you say this right, then you have tevez, a possible £32mill signing, who couldnt hit a barn door from 2 metres away! rooney is a 30mil striker and he’s hardly prolific is he? if you check your starts you’ll see berba is the one with more goals and assists.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:02
@Grognard: to call them a pub side is exaggerating it just a tad isnt it?
January 4th, 2009 at 23:06
@Liam: You are being far too critical of him due to losing the ball once. It’s not like Scholes has never lost the ball you know. Possebon was fine but the biggest problem is Fergie has him playing too far back. He has great offensive skills and touch but it’s hard for that to show when you are constantly playing in your own end. He is very composed and is a great distributor of the ball. Lets just be honest and say that you are not a fan of his style of football, not that he isn’t good. There are plenty of great players out there I don’t particularly care for. It’s all about personal taste and what your preferences are.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:07
@Craig Mc: No too many Nani fans keep bringing up the Arsenal game like that was the only time he ever showed his true skills and abilities. He had plenty of good games last season that one can remark on but it’s always the Arsenal game with most.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:12
@Matthew: Exactly. Sure Nani frustrates but even when he has had some poor games, out of nothing comes a moment of sheer brilliance that creates a great goal or at least an opportunity. And we know that in this game all it takes is one opportunity to be the decider. I would rather have Nani at 40% effectiveness than Park at 80%, frankly because a winger should not be on the field to defend and mop up, but to be a guiding force and a sharp knife that cuts through an opponent like butter. In that respect Park is a very dull table knife that gets bogged down halfway though a cube of butter.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:18
@dan(u-ol): It’s hard to hid one’s player bias and in that case I sympathize with Liam. Sure he is not a Berbatov fan and he has his reasons. Although I appreciate him, I’m not a big Tevez fan. What is important though is that when Tevez plays well, I am the first to acknowledge that and give him credit. Liam unfortunately cannot gather himself enough to admit when Berbatov plays well, simply because he has it in his mind that Berbatov was bought simply to score goals. Liam, you were mistaken. Fergie could have bought Huntelaar if that’s what he was looking for. No Berbatov was bought to emulate the role previously performed by one Eric Cantona. Look back at Cantona’s scoring record with United. Not exactly prolific but his presence on the pitch as well as his creativity and playmaking were legendary. That is what is demanded of Berbatov and although he has yet to reach Cantonesque levels of class, he has led the EPL in assists and still displays a silky and creative touch with the odd well taken goal.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:19
@dan(u-ol): Yes you are right Dan. Calling them a pub side is really a terrible insult and unfair knock on all pub sides in England.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:26
@Grognard: Damn, this is not an insult for you Grogs, but I just knew you were gonna say that!
January 4th, 2009 at 23:26
@Grognard: Think that was because we all loved that great bit of showboating Grog, that got the Arsenal players wanting to chop the legs off of him
.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:28
@Grognard: Well your right on that one Grog, there are some great PUB sides in Manchester area, and they are not averse to doing someone in who only calls them a pub side.
.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:29
@Grognard: you have said exactly what i was thinking
January 4th, 2009 at 23:41
Berbatov can hold a ball like no-one I’ve ever seen. He can pull a ball down out of the air as if it’s part of his leg. We’ve now got to capitalise on that by regularly bulging the old onion bag.
I thought Andy’s play was regularly restricted in the first half because of the positions Giggs was taking up. Giggs drops deep and slows play down, Andy tries to inject some pace and purpose from there.
I don’t think Gibson put one meaningful cross in from good positions on the right whereas Nani continually looked threatening on his wing and got his head up well today. I almost wish for an injury or two to get him a run in the team.
Possebon was caught early on in possession but adjusted to the pace of the game thereafter and looks technically good.
Welbeck is deceptively quick and looks confident. He was a handful for the Saints’ defence and Perry has always been a decent reader of the game.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:52
I can see similarities with Cantona in Berbatov but what I am waiting for is to Berbatov to help us win a BIG game with a bit of skill or a key goal. You cannot read too much into his performance today. I mean Tevez scored four against Blackburn who are a Premier League team! Similarly Berbatov’s fine scoring record is against Aalborg, Celtic, and a couple of newly promoted teams.
I want to see if Berbatov can become a big game player and score crucial goals for us the way Tevez did last season.
Also I agree that Nani should be playing ahead of Park in most of our games. I can understand why we might want to play Park in a big game when teams have good full backs who push forward. But against teams who come to us and defend we need Nani’s penetration.
I can understand the people who say Berbatov wasn’t bought to score goals but Rooney is not a goalscorer either and we are benching Tevez. When it comes to scoring goals we truly are a one man team and that man is Cristiano Ronaldo. Therefore teams realise to stop us scoring they just need to stop Ronaldo. I believe we need a multiple goal threat and at the moment we just do not have that.
Cantona was not a big scorer but he did score crucial goals. Berbatov hasn’t really done that for us this season so far and until he does as far as I am concerned the jury is out. Berbatov has also looked ordinary in the big games we’ve played.
I get the feeling for him to really weave his magic Berbatov needs space which he gets against weaker teams but doesn’t get in the big games. He has the control so there is no reason why he can’t be as successful in the big games, I just haven’t seen it yet.
So this is not a huge criticism of Berbatov but I do think if he is going to be the RIGHT player for Manchester United he needs to contribute more goals especially in big games
January 4th, 2009 at 23:53
@dan(u-ol): Thats because of my inspired intellectual properties and extreme wisdom.
Oh yes, and my humility too.
January 4th, 2009 at 23:58
@the three Rs: I can’t help but think that Tosic is going to help this team a great deal. As much as I like Nani, he has disappointed this season. Not all of it is his fault, but nevertheless, he has not lived up to his previous billing. Tosic has a lot of speed and skill with the ball. Add Ronaldo to the right side and that dual speed down the flanks with the ability on the ball and skill to deliver crosses, corners and free kicks can only make our offense more threatening. It will force less attention placed on Ronaldo because the player on the other side will be able to burn them too. I just hope he is the player I think he is and that he gets accustomed to our team and the English game soon. His influence has the potential to make the difference. Still, even with all that, this team needs to find it’s finishing now.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:02
@colver: “but what I am waiting for is to Berbatov to help us win a BIG game with a bit of skill or a key goal.” I’m sorry mate but did his play not win our last two Prem games? Every game is a big game when you are 7 points behind the leader. If we draw those games we would have been 11 points behind. Two losses and we are 13 points behind and done like dinner. His goal and assist in the last two games were massive contributions on a team that has been snake bit all season long. I think you are underestimating his contributions. Unfortunately all of us were hoping for a van Nistelrooy, and that’s just not what he is.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:07
@colver: “Cantona was not a big scorer but he did score crucial goals.” Again I sitting reading this with a bit of shock. Why? Because I remember so vividly the talk around Manchester media as well as the British media over the fact that as brilliant as Cantona was, he rarely showed up in a big cup game or especially in the Champions League. Yes he scored two penalties in one game in an FA Cup Final replay and he scored the winner on well taken half chance in another final but in general, his play was very mediocre in the finals and semi’s that he played in. A great player and my favorite United player of all time, but hardly a clutch performer in the classic sense.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:45
Right clearly since I’m just going to be mobbed everytime I make a comment that Grognard, Dan and Craig don’t agree with I’ll go with facts. Cantona in the league for us scored 64 goals in 143 appearances. That is nearly 1 goal every 2 games. Now I didn’t bother to check Berbatov’s so I’ll guess he played around 12 games to get his 3 goals. Cantona could produce something out of nothing to score but Berbatov seems to need a signpost just to take a shot. He got into some great positions that 9 times out of 10 a top striker would score and yet no shot.
@Matthew:yeah right we would’ve scored 10 more with Nani on the field. You just keep believing that
@dan(u-ol): I may be wrong but as far as I’m aware Rooney has more goals and similar assists to Berbatov
@dan(u-ol): wow that’s some argument
you’ve completely changed my views now. Park has played in 2 CL semi-finals and a world cup semi-final. Nani played in the 5th round of the FA Cup. Think next time before you speak as I think your mouth might be working faster than you’re brain. Nani is nothing until he achieves something. I know I’m going to get the ‘no talent’ comments again and ‘Park wouldn’t get into the other top 4 teams. Now let me think… I’d prefer him to Benayoun, Babel and Kuyt. I’d prefer him to Eboue and Ramsey so that’s 2 of the 3 and since Chelsea pay 15m for reserve players he wouldn’t get in there. But maybe it’s just me.
January 5th, 2009 at 0:48
@Grognard: Grog some people don’t see, or don’t care that a moment of magic from a Berbatov type player, that wins a game for you, and 3 points as opposed to one, is someone you want to have in your team. Like you said, those same people would have been whining like crazy if we had gone 11 points behind the leaders, as we would have without Berba’s very needed contribution. But hey, they will perhaps never see Grog
. Some folk would rather have the Rooney’s Parks and Adnersons who are the ever ready batteries of the team, but who would have only brought us the 2 points instead of 6. Not that I don’t think the ever ready batteries have their part to play, a team needs all different types of player.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:00
@Liam: Hummmmmm – didn’t Cantona take all the penalties though to score a lot of his goals – something Berba doesn’t do. I guess you would be one of those who whined about Teddy when he 1st came to us Liam, but he proved his worth in the end. Berba has already started proving his worth in my mind, getting us the vital points in our last two games to keep us up there with the leaders. If he keeps doing that he’ll do me. As for Nani, I can’t be arsed arguing with you anymore.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:06
@Liam: Why don’t you include Berbatov’s goals with Spurs to see that his goals per games played in the Prem is better than Cantona’s? But that wouldn’t suit your argument then right? Also, Berbatov’s goal production with an inferior team should put up all kinds of red flags and make you wonder if the problem is with him, or is it with United and the way he is being used? Hmmm!
Sorry Liam but the reason we disagree with you is because we think you are wrong. Not a problem really and not a big deal. Just our opinion really. God knows many think I am wrong constantly. As long as they don’t get abusive and insulting, I have no problem with it. So I think you are wrong about Berbatov but I do understand where you are coming from and why. Your expectation may have been wrongly fed. You were expecting a prolific goal scorer and unfortunately all you got was a play maker and decent goal scorer. So unfortunately you will have to live with it and hope that with time Berba changes your opinion. I doubt it though because I know how stubbornness over a player can taint your feelings about him. Hope you don’t feel like we are ganging up on you. We just disagree with you on this point. Not a big deal really.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:06
@dan(u-ol): But saying Tevez can’t hit a barn from 2 meters away isn’t?????????
January 5th, 2009 at 1:08
@Craig Mc: So true mate. Some people couldn’t recognize class if it bent down and bit them on the ass. Berbatov is class personified.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:10
@Craig Mc: Good one. Sheringham was a good addition. Very similar but far from prolific. A great player with touch, imagination and vision.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:45
@Grognard: Is all that crying and moaning really necessary? First, yeah the opposition wasn’t exactly Inter Milan but its the early rounds of the FA Cup ain’t it, so isn’t it expected to play lower quality sides? The task remains though, get the win and move on. And yet occasionally those lower sides pull some magic out of their asses and get results, ask Chelski and City about that.
Second, our squad wasn’t exactly the full first team. Missing starters included Evra, Rio, Rafa, Rooney, Ronaldo, Park (debate or not, he has been a regular)and you could even add Scholes to that list. So, over half the side.
Third, with that weird mixture of players who I would wager don’t spend all that much time playing together with that exact group as they have never done it in actual matches (first time with Welbeck and Berba up top) and like I said I doubt that group gets a lot of time together in training, they DID still create numerous chances. Their keeper made a string of fine saves that kept the score line respectable.
Fourth, and most importantly, maybe Fergie and the lads just didn’t feel the need to run up the score on a bunch of young lads working their asses off in front of their own fans? Yeah whatever you can talk about sending a message about blah blah blah and letting our rivals know we mean business, but really, if Chelski had won their match against a championship side 18-0 I wouldn’t give two shits. You think its any different for a professional footballer? Is super cunt John Terry going to shit himself if he saw we beat Southampton 15-0 so that he goes on to be so affected by that score line that he shows up to OT on sunday drunk and scores three own goals? I doubt it. It was 3 goals, a deserved lead, and we advance onward and upward towards another trophy. Step back off the ledge a little bit please….
January 5th, 2009 at 2:43
@Drew Vader: Hey Vader, happy new year Bro, where you been then? Not seen you around much
January 5th, 2009 at 2:56
Thanks man, happy holidays to you as well. And I still come by and read the the comments on a regular basis, but have just been a silent observer keeping my opinions to myself. Sometimes I’m too angry to properly express my frustration, and sometime I just think better of telling someone else to F off!! RR wouldn’t stand for it for very long.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:00
@Drew Vader: Drew mi man, I get you mate, but just come on and have a rant anyway, because this is red rants, and fans will always have STRONG views on our club, and different players who we like or don’t
. Perhaps we are not always fair in our assessments Drew, but hey thats fandom for you. 
.
By the way, Fergie is having a right rant in todays daily star re Berba and his contribution to United, and the surprise stats that show Berba RUNS more in a game than anyone else, and that includes Rooney he says. There is so much more comical stuff in his rant, you will have to read the Star mate, because he is non too happy with the Berba criticisers. But some of Fergie’s comments had me PMSL. Good amusing read Bro.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:33
This Park/Nani Debate – my two cents. I think park is prefered over Nani due to the presence of Rafael at RB who isnt the best defensively. If we had, say, Brown whose solid back there, I think Nani would be the preferred option but as it is, Park gets the edge cos he can help our young RB.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:38
ronaldo if he was fat and american
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7617650986559551054
i swear the resemblance is uncanny
January 5th, 2009 at 9:47
@Liam: 1) nani would have been our leading assists man had he not been injured last season and rooney taking him over. we WOULD have gotten at least 10 more goals because you see when your favourite player park gets in those good positions but fails with end product, nani would be scoring/making play in those positions.
2)
rooney berbatov
26 apps 19 apps
10 goals(from his spurt) 7 goals
4 assists 6 assists
berbatov has been more prolific in in both goals and assists.
3) wow so park got into the a world cup semi final with korea WOOOW, we should sign the whole team!why is carrick starting? he hasnt been in world cup final, we should sell him quickly! thank god we sold saha. i could go on but i think you get the picture. if you prefer park to babel you need your head checked.
so would park get into a team ahead of deco, cole(who is struggling to get into the chelsea team)malouda? lampard? babel? gerrard? reiera? walcot? van persie? nasri? to save you the time of actually thinking about, no.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:15
Grog- think its very unwise to assume Tosic is gonna waltz right into the team, replacing Nani just like that.
I mean Tosic is hardly an established player, hes way less proven than Nani!
I mean yeah he looks sweet, his left foot def looks special but none of us have actually seen him play a run of games!?
Hes coming from a weaker league than Nani did n has less caps for a far weaker footballing nation.
Dont get me wong sure Tosic will be a star but then so will Nani!
The boy Nani really gets a shit deal from the so called fans out there….
How can ppl use his sending off last yr as a reason to hate him!? i mean what player hasnt got sent off stupidly!???
The more i think bout it, despite his dip in form, Nani hasnt seen a lot of game time this season as Fergie is reigning him bk in a bit this season.
Last yr was his first season at the club. He was bought for the future yet he played 30 odd games, whilst as Dan mention, contributed significantly….maybe this is part of the reason we aint seen him much this yr?
ppl sayin Nani should be sold are fuckin mugs, im sorry.
Long live Nani, wing genius….watch this space.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:32
Player ratings:
EVDS – 7.5 – Looks to have his Mojo back. Dominated on crosses, great distribution. He and Rooney looked to be the only two players wanting more goals late in the game.
Gary – 7.0 – Easy game, but was not beaten on his side. Didn’t get forward much, but provided cover allowing both midfielders to roam.
Vida – 8.5 – Getting better every game. Controlled everything coming his way, and seemed to want a goal late on. Was getting well past the halfway line, which is a bit weird.
Evans – 6.0 – Not a good omen right before Chelski. His poor control/deliberate pull back wasn’t the only dangerous mistake he made. Got turned inside out by Ryan Smith who he should have forced wide rather than let him get to a great shooting position. His passing is also terrible. Hopefully just a blip, because he has been great to date.
O’Shea – 5.0 – I don’t get it. He’s slow, can’t cross, can’t control the ball, can’t pass, can’t tackle wingers and is only really useful in the air. So glad Evra is coming back soon. Very disappointed at his ‘progression’ as he did once looked a decent player.
Giggs – 4.0 – I get why you’d play him against a crap opposition, the logic being he’s less crap than them. Fergie was wrong. Clearly left his first, second and third touches up in Manchester. At least Fergie pulled him off for once. I mean, where was he playing anyway?
Nani – 6.5 – A funny one. I get both sides of the argument, but thought he was alright personally. He’s quicker than he looks, beat his man several times, got crosses in – fine we didn’t convert, but at least they came in. When was the last time someone remembers Park actually crossing the ball? Bottom line is that Nani is a winger, and comes with all the downsides of that. If we want to play with two wide men, he is one of the best two at our club. If we want to play condensed through the middle, Park is more useful. But why do that?
Carrick – 7.5 – The boy is class, and that shows up against lower teams. He and Berba were having a competition between themselves to see who could delicately slip by the most Southampton players without shooting. I don’t really know why they’d do that, but hey, if you can right?
Ando – 7.0 – Was excited to see him in a more forward role early in the game, but he quickly reminded me where he is best, which is in the backfield, providing energy and urgency, and the occasional good through ball. I’m really getting excited about his potential, once he calms down and a bit learns composure, he is going to be very, very good. Also paired well with Carrick.
Berbatov – 8.5 – I wanted to give him a 9, and would have had he managed 2 shots in the game. His control, skill and passing were some of the most fluid and clever I’ve seen since Zidane hung up his boots. And that’s the biggest compliment I can give a player. He was firmly an attacking midfielder, not a striker, but if he plays like that every game, I could care less.
Welbeck – 7.5 – He looked fine, and not out of place in our team. Or out of place against a pretty crap opposition. Promising, but if we had a match tomorrow I’d take Frazier Campbell.
Gibson/Possebon – 3.0 – They both ended the debate about which we should keep and who is more promising. Neither. Awful awful awful. No touch, no vision, no composure, no ambition. At least Gibson wasn’t playing his ‘natural’ role. Possebon was like Fletcher was 4 years ago, minus the grit and determination. I’m pretty sure Hargo in a wheel chair would provide more than either, so that’s our back up option after Scholes, Fletch, Carrick, Ando and this is how bad they were, Giggs.
Just a thought on today’s formation/style – we may have our solution to the Ronaldo issue. If he does leave this summer, and we start playing with wingers staying wide, it frees up space for Berbatov in the middle, and he was simply sublime there.
———————VDS——————–
–Rafa—-Rio——–Vida—-Evra—-
———Carrick——Ando/Hargo—-
—————-Berbatov——————
—Nani————————–Tosic—-
——————-Roon———————
(assuming Tosic doesn’t suck)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:35
@Drew Vader: Excuses…bloody excuses. This is what we have become, a bunch of excuse makers due to the inability of our team to score goals no matter what the lineup is. I for one am sick of it. How many excuses can we come up with this season. And when the season is over and we have won piss all, what will the next excuse be for that? No, I think I’ll cry and moan all I want thanks. Frankly, it’s my right and I honestly feel I am correct in my assertions. If you want to live in denial, that is your prerogative, just don’t expect me to look at a glass half full, when it looks half empty to me.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:41
@realred: Fergie will not be able to resist blooding the lad. He will give him several game to see what he’s got and frankly, one the player shows him what he’s got, it may be hard for him to resist playing him. I for one want to see more of Nani and I never want to see Park again and Giggs only as a late substitution from now on. And I for one do not want to see Nani sold however, I don’t see the lad putting up with yet one more player keeping him from starting. He’s got too much talent to sit on United’s bench for the rest of his career.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:54
…honestly grog, id rather see Park than Giggs. It pains me to watch him play these days! really pains me….when he is on the pitch u struggle to identify his position. He loses the ball morethan anyone in squad & when he mannages to keep the ball he fails to do anything with it!! infuriating.
it must be extremely hard coming to end of such an illustrius career but he needs to call it a day sometime soon………
January 5th, 2009 at 12:01
Happy New Years boys!
Park is not a world class footballer in any shape or form, but when we play the big four, or any top European side he is worth putting in only in Rafael plays as he gives the young lad cover, and also it allows Rafael to get forward. If we played Browm or Nev, then Nani or Whoever should certainly play, but Rafael is on a learning curve and with Park in it does protect him some what. Park is not my particular brand of Vodka but his worth is that if he allowa Rafael to develop then he is worth a game.
@Beachryan: Very harsh mate on Possebon and Gibson, at least give then a chance, I heard people say the same about Ronaldo when he first played, they are young and need game timehten surely we can judge.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:30
@ Stephen – Ronaldo was harshly judged because he tried audacious things, took shots when he should have passed and had ridiculously terrible hair.
Possebon and Gibson yesterday were incapable of making 10 yard square passes to open teammates, and control them as they came back. I know the pitch was a lil crap, but they were like sand in our engine. I’m happy to give them a chance, I was just utterly shocked how out of their depth they looked, in what really was the easiest 20 minutes of football they’ll ever get at United. Possebon in particular, people were talking about him being Scholes-esque – the boy didn’t play a single ball forward. I’m all for keeping it simple when you have to, but this was a chance to put on a show, and they showed absolutely nothing.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:43
@Beachryan: I agree to some degree mate, Gibson is 21 and is essentially British probably should be further on in his development, but he has done something that Anderson has never done and score.
Possebon is 19 and has come from another country and nees time to develop and adapt and maybe should be sent on loan, but he does remind me of Guti in some sort of way, and that isn’t good!
January 5th, 2009 at 12:59
@Stephen: Hey Stephen mi man, where you been Bro? Did you take off for the holidays
. Lucky you if you got away to warmer climates. I got the flu, and can’t get out at all 
, damn the English weather.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:03
@Grognard: Grog, I do love you mate when you talk like this
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:05
Beachryan, dont worry bout Possebon, he will mature into a fine fine player. His physical stature, n his playing posture/style says it all for me.
Hes shown already, to those that have been watchin, what a thunderous shot he has as well as being more than capeable in terms of passing & general play. His technique looks particularly solid to me.
Personaly i think he will end up as a defensive midfielder who will also provide goals for the team.
By the way our last 8 buys have been incredible in my books,
1 Anderson
2 Nani
3 Rafael
4 Fabio
5 Possebon
6 Berba
7 Tosic
8 Ljajic
January 5th, 2009 at 13:12
@Craig Mc: Missed you bro!! I have been in south Africa for a blast of sun matey, and my Blackberry was up the shoot!
@realred: Tosic and Ljajic incredible? Bit early for that and Possebon, Fabio certainly havn’t even played, in fact Nani and Anderson have only showed potential, although Nani looked good yesterday I thought.
Anderson to me is a falacy, people seem to be very blinkered to his contribution in my eyes, he has all the ability in the world and I like the lad don’t get me wrong, but people seem to over rate what he actually does.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:14
@realred: Errr Realred, there’s only me saying Nani would be better off being sold, and I said that because the lad needs regular first team football, so as not to regress. No way would I sell the lad if he was getting a fair deal at United to progress in the same way that Ronnie did, but ALAS. I don’t think anybody on the blog is saying he should be sold because he isn’t good enough. If they are, tell me who mate, and I will give em some
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:23
@Stephen: South Africa?, you jammy GIT Bro
. I’ll bet you lapped up the sunshine, and bet you didn’t think of us poor b’ards shivering to death here in blighty 
.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:37
@Beachryan: Why are you so harsh on O’Shea? From where I was he was better than Anderson. He would’ve even set up a goal if Berbatov knew where it was. I don’t know if people now expect their full-backs to score 42 goals a season now as well as their wingers. I bet if O’Shea had Rafael on his back you’d be saying it was a masterclass in full back play.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:48
@ Realred – Think there’s some heavy optimism there about a few of those players. I mean Possebon does have a ripping long range shot, I’ve seen some reserve matches, but I expect him to get the basics right. I think all the talk of his technique partly comes down to where he’s from, and if he’d contributed identically yesterday but been from Scotland, we’d all hear how crap he is. Happy to give him time, he’s very young. As for Tosic and Ljajic – they’ve not even put on their jersey’s in earnest yet! Hardly sound buys! Maybe, sure, but who knows? Hargreaves was the best signing I’d heard about since Rooney, but he’ll barely have given us 30 games in two full seasons before maybe returning from surgery. Gotta wait to see worth IMO.
@ Liam – I’m harsh on O’Shea because I expect a quality performance from him. He’s not some inexperienced lad from Brasil, he’s been in our first team for donkeys years now. And he got regularly skinned by a second rate winger from the bottom of the championship. For me its more his first touch that infuriates – he gets down the wing and the winger/midfielder plays it to him, and about 2 minutes later he’s controlled it well enough to look up, by which time of course there are no good optiosn to him. Just seems that after 15 years of professional football training, he should be able to one-touch pass occasionally.
Dunno why I’m so grumpy with him, I think it’s just sadness at his limited development. He looked quality when he came through.
January 5th, 2009 at 13:57
appolagies lads, i meant to say in my last post how they were all great signings for the future. The point i was trying to make was how positive all the buys have been considering they are all very highly rated players. As far as i can see we are building an ‘incredible’ team for future seasons already
January 5th, 2009 at 14:11
After saturdays shaky showing of our defense against average opposition, I am praying Rio is fit and back for the Chelski game. This defence does worry me a little. Evans usually plays very well at OT, so I hope that is the case again, and does anyone know if Evra will be able to play this game? If they count the cup matches, which they have done for John Terry, then after the Derby game, won’t that be Evra’s ban over?
January 5th, 2009 at 14:12
Sorry guys, I meant sundays game, not saturday
,
January 5th, 2009 at 14:30
@Craig Mc: Evra mate is available, it was lovely by the way, and I missed you all!!
January 5th, 2009 at 14:36
@Beachryan: O’Shea was awful, probably not his fault as he has no left foot, can’t get forward, has no pace and clearly isn’t remotely a left back as much as EVDS is, and to be honest actually isn’t a very good footballer.
January 5th, 2009 at 14:45
@ Stephen – Yeah, kind of with you. Thank the lord Evra will be back, hopefully not too rusty (he did have the WCC a couple weeks back to keep fit).
Sunday will be all about which Drogba shows up. If it’s the Drogba that still rallies for big games, we’re in a spot of bother. If it’s the Drogba that can’t be asked because it’s cold and he’s away from home, we’ll be fine.
Either way it’ll be a great test for a our midfield. I’m guessing we’ll see a Carrick/Scholes/Fletcher combo, which to be honest is defense but probably necessary against the really quite good Lampard/Deco(or Ballack)/Mikel trio.
Still have Derby to get through, watched them on Saturday and they weren’t particularly good, but some decent striking. Awfffffull kits though, good lord.
January 5th, 2009 at 14:50
@Beachryan: I agree think we will have to pack the midfield, I would play 4-3-3 with Wazza and Ronnie either side of Berba, (or what I like to call RooBerRon, get it!!) who was the brilliant yesterday by the way.
But Park will start I think as he is the new love child a la Fletch/O’Shea of a few years back.
January 5th, 2009 at 15:15
RooBaLdo?
January 5th, 2009 at 15:19
@Traverse: You need a ber in there hence Rooberron!!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 15:40
Surely BerbaRoo is the greatest strike force name ever? (do like RooBeRon for the trio
)
January 5th, 2009 at 15:46
@Beachryan:Lets do the Roober!!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 16:15
Roonaltov?
January 5th, 2009 at 16:15
@Beachryan: I am not sure Drogba will play mate, he doesn’t seem to be very popular at the moment!
January 5th, 2009 at 16:33
@RedDevilEddy: Don’t fight Rooberron, allow it into your heart and and it will love you back.
January 5th, 2009 at 16:39
@Stephen: I might, but I really fany the word BerRooRon. Like a Baron?
Sounds good. Berooron. The Baron! 
January 5th, 2009 at 17:19
@ Stephen – They’d be stupid not to play him. Tit as Droggie is, Anelka doesn’t pose nearly the same individual threat. Which is fine against weaker teams, because Deco/Lampard/Kalou can be very offensive and take up defensive resources, but against us Chelsea will need the big man up front as their midfield will be covering.
Anyone else find Obi Mikel’s development interesting? If he’d signed with us (or rather, stayed with us) I’m determined he’d be a box to box, Keane/Essien type. Now he’s the new Makelele.
January 5th, 2009 at 17:47
@Beachryan: The only reason I see to play Anelka against us is that the enfesis is normally on the home team to attack the away side so it gives Chelsea more of a chance to counter, eg utilise Anelka pace in behind, but at Stamford Bridge teams play deeper so a, Anelka’s pace is not so needed, but b, they need a battering ram style player to create more chances for lets say Lampard to run onto.
Mikel is a liability, a booking/sending off waiting to happen amd getting £16m for him seems good business, but on a seperate note if Arteta is available for £8/10m then to me that is a really good buy.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:23
@realred: They are both useless but I would rather see Giggs out of respect and see Park go to another team. Frankly, I am quite sick and tired of listening to others BS about his value and contributions. They are free to support him as much as they want if all they demand from a winger or wide midfielder is plain white toast with nothing on it.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:27
@Craig Mc: That’s nice mate but I’m not giving you that reach around you crave. And tell the GF that we are not going steady, so she need not worry.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:30
@ Gronard – I’m somewhere in the middle on Park/Nani debate. I get both sides, and agree that Nani certainly has more potential to change a game. But the way we set up sometimes necessitates that the wide midfielders role is not just offensive, but their defensive responsiblities are emphasized too. And given that we know Ronaldo is far too important to ever backtrack (slightly tongue in cheek, I know his worth on the counter) it means the other side has to provide cover.
Personally I’d like to see Fergie make better use of subs to balance the situation. Start Nani, see how he gets on, and if we’re in the lead/he’s having one of those days, bring Park on.
Oh and stop Nani from diving so much. It’s embarassing. Vidic took a studs up challenge with a look of mild annoyance. Nani goes to ground and covers his face when an opposing player sneezes.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:38
@Beachryan: It’s personally very disturbing that we are automatically thinking our teams setup for Chelsea has to be defensive minded. Why? We are at home and we are the defending Double champions. Why should we fear them. More like they should fear us at OT.
I want to see a 4-4-2 with an attacking lineup and lets see if we can beat them by playing our style of football rather than conform to their game.
On that note, Fergie will go with the defensive cautious approach by starting a midfield which will include Fletcher and Park and the result will be a boring 0-0 or 1-1 draw.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:41
@Beachryan: United have always had a tradition of exciting wide players Best is obvious but Hill and Coppell ect were all attacking wingers, Park isn’t.
I see that he does “do a job” which is all well and good but the words not United and class come to mind. The only benefit is the protection of Rafeal which I can understand but he doesn’t get me off my seat and I like wingers to do that.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:45
@Beachryan: I totally agree with you. Start Nani , get a lead then bring Park on to defend that lead. But when you start Park, you completely derail your offense and so even if Nani comes in late in a game, he does so tied or behind in goals. Start Nani and go for the jugular.
Also, what’s wrong with playing Tosic? I remember that Ronaldo played immediately upon being purchased. What’s wrong with throwing or should I say tossing Tosic in late in the game for some experience? I’d love to see him make his debut vs Chelski
January 5th, 2009 at 18:47
@Grognard: Why not play Tosic on Wednesday? It is a micky mouse cup for starters and also well Derby at the moment are awful.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:54
@Stephen: Well putt mate. Protecting a fullback has never been the role of a winger throughout the history of United. Why are we now being saddled with such an offensive liability as Park? Sure he could play a role as a part time defensive substitute or even start the odd road game where we have to contain another teams wide star player (ie; Messi or Ribery), but to start him game after game and always play cautiously and without imagination is not the United way and personally, it’s making me sick to the stomach. I’ve been fed an overdose of JS Park and to be honest, I have never been a fan of Korean food. It’s time United’s manager woke up and started approaching the game the way he did before some Italian dude cornered him in a dark parking lot and read him the Serie A riot act. Start playing football again instead of this boring slow buildup football that creates numerous half chances but rarely puts opponents on their heels. And stop wasting good talent like Nani for useless one dimensional waste products like Park. Enough already.
January 5th, 2009 at 18:55
@ Grognard – I agree re: 442, Fergie used that to great affect in the CL final, and completely took them by surprise. However he may have played that hand now, guess we’ll see.
Has anyone heard any updates at all on Hargreaves? Did he have the second knee done? I know the surgeon broke his arm, just hoping it was after he’d sorted Owen out!
January 5th, 2009 at 18:56
@Stephen: I have no problem with that. It would be a good opportunity to see what he has. I’d still like to see him play against Chelsea though, even if it is only as a substitute.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:01
@Grognard: Well put also surely the goal drought could be put at Parks door also.
Ronaldo always tends to cut inside for a shot so he is not going to create many chances for our strikers, and Park well just runs around and looks busy. Carrick plays deep and if Fletcher plays, well see what I said about Park and that is exactly the same.
Our most creative winger is Nani, simple and yes he frustrating but aren’t most wingers? especially if thay have had little game time to create confidence, wingers are there to take people on so they will get tackled and make wrong decisions, but if they make more right then wrong then we will score more goals ans Nani has that ability given more game time.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:02
@Beachryan: This is from Hargreaves own site. Itappears his second operation is sometime this month.
“For me personally, it was a roller-coaster of a year. I’m currently in rehab following my knee surgery. In January the other knee will be operated and then I hope to finally be able to play pain-free again. Like every year I spend the holidays in Calgary with my family where I will try to get some rest and recharge my batteries for the new year.”
Just hope it goes as well as the first and that he comes back strong as ever next season. God he has been missed out there this season, that’s for sure. All the best Hargo
January 5th, 2009 at 19:05
@Stephen: To be honest and fair, Park did deliver a few good low crosses in his last game only to have Ronaldo and Rooney fan on them. When you are snake bit, even your good play turns out badly. The boy as well as the team seem to have little luck and what luck they do have is bad.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:14
Lots of places on the internet are saying we are sending £6million, with Possebon and Gibson on loan for the season to Leeds for Fabien Delph.
Not a bad deal for Leeds if Possebon and Gibson get Leeds promoted, and they’d do well for any of the current Championship teams, cause Delph is going to go eventually…
January 5th, 2009 at 19:21
I just read this little bit on BBC news.
“Arsenal could lose forward Theo Walcott on the cheap after dragging their feet over a new contract. (Daily Express)”
Just how cheap and would Fergie entertain going after him? Wenger probably would not sell him to us but Walcott is a player I would love to have on United. Great pace and skill and if used properly, a world of potential.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:35
@Grognard: Grog, Tosic hasn’t played since early december according to Fergie, and so he feels he is not match fit.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:44
@Grognard: Hahahahaha – Grog the GF says you don’t stand any chance against the Nani love
. I don’t think she’s worried at all though, except she’s planning the wedding, when I haven’t even proposed yet. Still I know she’s the one, so I’ll get to it. I just wish she liked sport though, and United, because like the Portugeezers, she wants to leave England for sunnier climates. Reckons the only thing keeping me here is my beloved United. She’s bitter Grog, BITTER 
.
January 5th, 2009 at 19:51
Grognard, i saw that earlier and i was wondering if we should put a bid in there just on the off chance. You never know, maybe he would love to come here, he has huge potential just needs to show it, could be a replacement for ronaldo. Think i read he could be available for £400k if i read it correctly.
Traverse, its probably just media crap linking us with every1. I know he has been linked with us a bit but i doubt its true. Plus fergie has already said that we are done with our january business already, although he has said things like this b4 and then gone out and brought some1 in.
What websites are reporting this anyway traverse?
January 5th, 2009 at 19:58
@Grognard: i wouldnt sell no at all. wit his pace, it would be the end of park. walcot has enough pace to be running up and down the wing all day. if he is available i say we get him.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:01
@Grognard:
His contract expires in less than six months. This means that under Bosman rules (if I understand correctly) other clubs are now allowed to offer the player a contract for next season. All that would have to be paid to Arsenal is a nominal fee for training costs (around £400k from what I hear). Here’s a full list of players in the same situation:
Michael Ballack, his contract hasn’t been renewed yet and he doesn’t seem happy at Chelsea. He is now available for official offers from other clubs for next season. Offer him a ridiculous paycheck and then offer Chelsea a fee to let him go immediately. Abramovic appears to have been hit hard by the credit crunch, so he’ll probably rather get some money for Ballack rather than having to let him go for free over the summer. For a full list of players in the same situation see:
http://www.mcalcio.com/expiring-contract-soccer-players-2009/
Quite a few surprises on there…
January 5th, 2009 at 20:01
@Craig Mc: she sounds like my mum
i would play tosic on a wednesday. the only way to get match fit is to play matches. its the CC and we’re against derby. perfect time to play him.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:11
Oops, ignore the Ballack bit, that was a City fan idly hoping they’ll sign anyone better than Bellamy
bit hasty copy/pasting the link there…
January 5th, 2009 at 20:17
@dan(u-ol): Which bit Dan(u)ol, the wedding bit, or taking off for sunnier climates?.
.
January 5th, 2009 at 20:29
@Craig Mc:
the wedding! im too young to get married anyway.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:02
@dan(u-ol): Oh
sorry mate, I thought we were talking about your mother. Now I’m confused!
January 5th, 2009 at 21:43
@Craig Mc: She is probably special but is she more valuable than United? Based on this season United would probably finish a distant second. Especially considering last season when she probably received sloppy seconds from you. God I remember when I was attached (I called it whipped), no team ruled over my gal. But I’m better now.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:46
@dan(u-ol): Walcott won’t cost as much but the problem is whether Arsenal would even consider selling him to a heated rival? Silvestre wasn’t exactly a major deal. I’d love to see Walcott play for us. His speed and versatility would be a real treat.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:50
@Grognard: they wouldnt have a say in it! under the bosman rule, walcot is allowed to talk to WHOEVER he wants, and if he agrees to join a club, arsene cant do a damn thing about it more then smile when he gets a check of £400k
January 5th, 2009 at 21:53
@Grognard:
nothing comes before united!
united
money
family
then girls
is what i love the most!
woops i forgot, grognard after money
January 5th, 2009 at 21:53
@YDR: I love Ballack as he is my favorite player (I know I know WTF), but I don’t see United ever going after him because he already snubbed us and because he is old. A player I think could be just what we need surprisingly enough is Mark Van Bommel. United has needed a hard man to run the midfield for a long time. Not since Keane have we had a defensive minded hard player who has a reputation for yellow cards and strong marking. A player like that would free up Carrick or Anderson to move forward and would also not allow teams to get away with fouling or trying to injure our players. A month ago I remember a player from a German team try to cripple Franck Ribery. Within minutes Van Bommel put him in the hospital with a legal but hard challenge. Message sent. You don’t mess with our stars or you will pay the piper. In this way he reminds me so much of Keane and Gattuso.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:56
@dan(u-ol): I agree. I don’t start him but I give him 20 minutes at the end of the game. He needs game time.
January 5th, 2009 at 21:57
@Grognard: i would start him from the outset. and if he looks out of his depth, take him off at half time. you’ll know he had game time and is starting to settle.
yes, i am a football manager!
January 5th, 2009 at 21:59
@dan(u-ol): Yes I guess that’s true. Now is the time to seduce the young fellow with a nice talk to by Fergie and then get his England teammates like Rio, Rooney, Carrick, Hargo etc have a good talk with him and show him why United is the only way. My question to you and others though is, why is Wenger not trying harder to sign this lad up? Does he know something we don’t? Injury concerns, attitude etc???
January 5th, 2009 at 22:00
@dan(u-ol): That’s more like it.
I live by the rules set up by Tony Montana. First the money, then the power, then United and then the woman. OK so I added United in there. I’m sure Tony would have too , but he was high on Coke and forgot.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:04
@dan(u-ol): Problem with starting him over bringing him late is that a team, especially United struggle to get cooking right away. He would be wasted until the team finally gets it’s shit together. By the 65th or 70th minute the game will be on the boil and a fresh set of fast legs can really take advantage of the situation and challenge the tired legs out there.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:18
@Grognard: Hmmm, weird. DAaily Mail was reporting that he’s already had the second op in late November iirc.
@dan(u-ol): Hopefully that is firmly tongue-in-cheek or the Park baiting has just reached new heights of absurdity.
@Craig Mc: Ronaldo has made some horrible decisions too, but he seems to know when to shoot and when not too, which makes me think he’s a little more developed football brain- wise than Nani. And yes I agree on the last part, I too can’t seem to find any reason why most United fans haven’t warmed up to him. Though I’ve seen some fans say the reason for this was the little bit of play acting he did vs. WHU last season.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:26
as far as my knowledge(Football Manager) goes, a club from another country can talk to people in the last 6 months of their contract but English teams can only negotiate within 1 month of contract ending. WAIT why am I even talking about this! Not a chance we’re getting him
January 5th, 2009 at 22:36
@YDR: Walcott has 18 months on his contract left, and their chief exec has already said that sorting out a contract for him is top of their list of things to do.
Not gonna happen.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:38
Maybe it’s not Park playing to cover Rafael’s defensive naiveity but Rafael playing because Park is not a winger.
Wingers hug the white line, are fast, can beat a man and can cross on the run. They are confidence players and need to be applauded for taking their opponent on and supported when not successful. Wingers give pace and excitement to a game. They can run with the ball or run behind the defence for the pass in behind the full back. Lennon at Spurs lost all his confidence but again looks a real threat. As a full back I wouldn’t lose much sleep before playing Park but Nani would have me on my mettle. He just needs to utilise his pace a bit more. Kanchelskis and Giggs gave us such pace. A quick Schmeical throw out and ………..
Don’t know if Tosic has real pace ( though Grog suggests he has )but he’s def got a sweet left peg. Berba will need to be on the end of it. Eric was great at timing runs to score with his head.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:44
Walcott is a speed machine. I have never ever seen a player move so fast on a football field. I think maybe only Bolt is faster than Theo. I know, I shouldnt call a player from another club with his first name, but Im getting used to say Theo because that is what all my Arse mates call him. Its stuck to me in some way, just like I am used to say Cesc or Robin. Probably because of the surnames.
And yeah, ive become friends with the Arsenal fans, they aint that bad when they dont brag about their team(or I mock them for being in 5th spot). 
But we have signed Tosic and we have Nani and Park in the ranks. We still dont know if Tosic will be preferred over Nani, or if Park is gonna be chosen over both of them. If we dont give Park a new contract, or we sell Nani in the summer, Walcott would be a great buy. I admire him, as a player only, and his run agaist Liverpool in the CL quarter-final last season was just like Giggs` vs Arsenal in 1999. Pure brilliance. If we sell either Park or Nani, there might be a chance of us landing Walcott. If I remember correctly Fergie followed him closely when he was at Soton, and now that Fergie and “Teh Voyuer” has become best mates, who knows really? I would be glad to see him in the team, as his speed is good enough to change a game on its own.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:48
Park’s clearly not highly rated on here then. His movement, one touch pass-and-move technique and intelligent and probing passes suit our playing style perfectly and he’s been very, very good this season. Just because he’s not flashy doesn’t mean he isn’t effective, but it always seems to have an impact on some people.
He deserves to start ahead of Nani no doubt.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:49
Oh, and I am surprised nobody has mentioned what Tevez said to Argentinian radio. From what my sources in Argentina say(the brother of my aunts husband) Tevez really said this. This is not media bullshit, but just plain frustration from Carlito. And to be honest, who can blame him?!
January 5th, 2009 at 22:54
@Conor: Have you been drinking too much lately?! Park deserves to play over Nani? Well, that is… Its just… I have no fucking words!
Park is shite, his finishing is even worse than… well, prabably just as bad as Andersons! Or possibly worse. He cant beat an opponent, he cant cross, he cant head, he cant shoot, he cant play defense splitting passes. The only think Park is good at is just positioning. I think, that if his finishing would be like Ruuds, Park would play as Inzaghi plays for Milan. No football brain, or class of any sort, only good at positioning. To be honest, even Eboue is better than Park! 
January 5th, 2009 at 22:55
Oh, and I am surprised nobody has mentioned what Tevez said to Argentinian radio. From what my sources in Argentina say(the brother of my aunts husband) Tevez really said this. This is not media bullshit, but just plain frustration from Carlito. And to be honest, who can blame him?!
January 5th, 2009 at 22:57
@RedDevilEddy: He’s probably our worst finisher, doesn’t bother me. He’s actually not a half bad crosser but rarely gets into those positions to, and his vision for a pass is more than underrated.
His footballing brain is of a much higher level than Nani’s, lets not be silly now.
January 5th, 2009 at 22:59
@RedDevilEddy: I wouldn’t blame him for being frustrated, I think it’s a bit odd what he said though.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:05
@RedDevilEddy: Having good positioning and movement requires a good footballing brain. They come hand-in-hand.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:28
@RedDevilEddy: It really is getting beyond a joke with Park. He has become the team’s new scapegoat, along with Neville. No one is suggesting that the lad is a world class player but the attitude some have to him on here astounds me.
As for the comment about no football brain, you have to be joking? A football brain is about decision making, positional skills, movement and tactical nous. Park’s problems are his technique and physical attributes, not his brain.
I can understand why people want the more talented player to start but then there doesn’t seem to be any reasoned assessment of the situation. Simply bunging all of your most talented players out onto the pitch does not necessarily equate to a team that has the best chance of success, just take a look at Real Madrid. You could also note our improvement in form in 2001-02 when Butt was preferred with Keane in CM over the vastly more talented Seba Veron.
In addition what if the more talented player is playing absolutely woefully, does he still have a good given right to start every week over the work horse? Yes, I would rather watch Nani to Park but based on what I have seen over the course of the season I can appreciate why Park has got the nod. His stats and highlights reel will never be particularly good looking but he provides a solid level of performance for 90 minutes and his sheer persistence and good positioning do make things happen.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:34
@the three Rs: Yes, that is the traditional, romantic vision of a winger. However IMO in modern football such rigid definition of player roles are a thing of the past. Ronaldo last year doesn’t exactly fit your definition of hugging the touch line. Modern players fulfill whatever role is required of them by the team. If a setup uses highly aggressive full backs and a winger that rarely tracks back and requires a defensive winger to act as a counter point then so be it.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:38
@dan(u-ol): Walcott may have the pace to run up and down the wing all day but it doesn’t mean that he knows what he is doing when he is defending. He was standing looking around him when he completely lost Evra for our second goal at the Emirates last season.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:44
@Conor: Well somebody is lying here, be it Tevez’s camp or the club. Regardless, it seems increasingly likely that the price required to make his move permanent is too steep.
January 5th, 2009 at 23:58
couple of points
first, i think walcott has 20 months still left on his contract so he still has just under 2 year left on it. I think this means that if a club came in and managed to turn his head then he could buy out his contract and could be ours for peanuts. Would he wanna leave arsenal for us, possibly, will fergie even consider him, i sincerely doubt it.
Grognard, what u said about van bommel with that challenge, haha great, i love players like that. For all the qualities hargo has when fit his aggression is not 1 of them, we need a rooney but in the centre of midfield. Oh oh, hope ferguson isnt secretly on here reading comments or he might just try to convert rooney from a striker to a defensive midfielder lol.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:05
Now a few general thoughts on the game, quite frankly I don’t know why some people are reading so much into it or getting uptight about the result. The match was played like an exhibition for large parts with no need for the team to exert itself to any degree. With 9 games in 29 days or so I could live with a few more energy saving, easy games like that. Just look at the hard work some of our main rivals made of dispatching lower league opposition. We should be grateful that our tie was navigated with such ease.
On the performances of the players only one really stood out, Berbatov. He may have been playing against poor opposition but that doesn’t lessen his control, vision and technique in the slightest. A superb performance from him. If we can get him playing to that type of level regularly in the second half of the season and SAF can get the Roon and Ron firing then I believe we will canter to the title.
Elsewhere there where average performances from the old guard, O’Shea and Evans and good displays from Carrick and Vidic. Of more interest were the few young lads trying to secure a place in the team/squad. Firstly Nani and Anderson. The first performed well while the latter was distinctly average. Neither put in a performance that suggested they will be knocking SAF’s door down for the Chelsea game.
Next up are Gibson and Possebom. Frankly Gibson looked woeful despite his goal but he is not helped by being played out on the wing when he gets chances. Possebom has a bit of class about him but he is still miles off the pace required for any competitive game of any significance. Lastly Welbeck, who produced an excellent display. He was lively, strong, fast and willing to stretch the opposition defence. He has done his chances of getting some sub appearances in the league later in the season no harm at all.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:14
@the three Rs: The times I saw Tosic play in the Under 21 Euros last year he looked very fast with great dribbling skill and the ability to cross the ball well.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:18
@RedDevilEddy: The thing is that Walcott can play the same role Rooney and Tevez play also. His versatility is great but his down side is his injury prone history. His pace on the ball is sublime and he appears to have found the way to influence a game and to also finish with determination and flair. I doubt very much whether we could get him but the fantasy is a nice one to think about.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:18
@Matthew: There has been a lot of talk in the press about players buying out contracts. However there has only been a handful of cases of this type and the ruling is still not on the same firm legal grounding as the Bosman case. Attempting to break a contract in this manner is a minefield of problems and leaves the player open to legal action from his club. If Walcott tried to force a move of that type he would easily be the highest profile case to date and likely turn himself into a pariah in England.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:20
@RedDevilEddy: Mate, you have to always remember that there will always be those who will pass on a filet mignon steak and choose a bologna sandwich instead. Never underestimate the bad taste of others. Seriously speaking, anybody who thinks Park is a good player needs…………
I’ll leave it to your imagination.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:35
@JB: I agree with you about us not needing to spend any more energy than we did. I would have liked to see some of the easy chances we had to get more goals come to fruition though Jb. With regards to the new lads, Welbeck did good, but to be honest it wasn’t a very competitive game to test the lad out, so I will reserve my judgment until I see him in bigger testing games. Possebon and Gibson do need to be loaned out, so they can develop a combat edge to their game, against better opposition than reserve football.
I thought Nani did really good, but yet again he needs a talking too from Fergie about playing dead whenever he is fouled, and like Ronnie he is often fouled from BEHIND which I hate. Still both Ronnie and he, need to get up and play on unless they are really hurt, as Vidic did yesterday, setting them the right example
.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:45
@JB: What are the things though that Park has made happen Jb. I am not saying he shouldn’t be played, in some games he does give the sheer persistence and terrier qualities you talk about, but I want to know what you mean by he makes things happen, because I am not seeing it as you are. I do remember last year at Boro, when we got our equaliser from Park sidetracking the full back and getting the ball into Rooney. But I can’t remember too much of that kind of thing. I do appreciate though that football is horses for courses, and I can live with that Bro.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:49
@Conor: Can’t see how you work that one out
. Perhaps if like Nani he had the equivelant number of assists as Nani did last season, and in the few games Nani has played this season, then I might understand more where you are coming from. Ask Jb our master stats man, he can back up the difference in stats on assists.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:52
@RedDevilEddy: I can blame him mate, players who come out and question Fergie in the media usually make the rod for their own back.
January 6th, 2009 at 0:57
I meant it in a sense that although he does not feature heavily on goal scoring or assist charts he does help to contribute. For example his persistance in the air to win the ball for Carrick just before the goal against City or his cross for Ronaldo against Arsenal just after their second goal. His final ball (shot or cross) may not be good but the way some talk on here you would think he offered absolutely nothing
January 6th, 2009 at 0:58
@the three Rs: Good thinking there three Rs, and thinking I mostly agree with
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:05
@Rd: Errrr Rd, are you talking about Ronnie or Nani in the WHU thing?. If your talking Nani then I get you, but you need to take a look also at the WHU full back, because Nani just put his head to his forehead, and we went down like Mohammed Ali has slugged him. I am not excusing Nani, but to say he wasn’t provoked would be total denial. However, his cover up job to not be sent off was complete Drama which I denounced at the time. I still love the lad though. Thing is Rd, all this playacting and cheating is RIFE with most foreigners coming into PL, and they are getting slyer at it. Altho Gerrard is not behind the door at diving etc, and he is English – soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:06
JB, Take your point about players needing to be versatile and accept that I may hold a rather romantacised view of the outside right/left. However, when teams park the bus (to use the new term in the vernacular), it is even more essential to get behind the defence.
Park comes inside to an already congested area rather than going outside his full back. Becks could deliver his curling cross without going past his full back, Park doesn’t have that ability. His runs without the ball get him into positions behind the defence but he generally lacks composure when there. Nani can beat his man and can cross well. Particularly at home, and specifically against teams with zero attacking ambition Nani should have been in the starting line up. That has rarely happened and Tosic has arrived before Nani has been given a fair chance. Park has many qualities, a good football brain being one of them but he does not fit my definition of a winger, not even the modern definition that you suggest has superceeded the old one.
Your posts are well thought out and interesting and I would agree with your asssessment of Sunday’s mismatch.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:10
@Grognard: Grog, I don’t sleep with United, so there’s your answer
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:13
@Craig Mc: You are correct, Nani’s stats are vastly superior in terms of assists last season (9 to 1 in about triple the playing time). Goal ratio is fairly similar last year. Park’s goal ratio in 2006/07 sticks out, where he got five goals in less than 9 full games. Interestingly the ratio of chances created does not differ anywhere as near as much as the assists between the two players.
Nani has two assists and one goal to Park’s one assist and one goal in around a quarter of the game time this season. However given the extremely small amount of time Nani has played this season it is difficult to draw any meaningful insight from his stats this year.
Park is the better passer by around 10% in terms of completion rate and is a better tackler (the team also tends to concede less when he is in the line up). Nani is the more accurate shooter and (obviously
) takes more shots. Park concedes fewer fouls and wins a comparable amount to Nani. Park also has a superior disciplinary record.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:20
@the three Rs: I agree largely with what you have said there. I reckon the old saying different horses for different courses fits. There will be days when Park’s defensive attributes will be needed (dare I say Inter away) and others when Tosic/Nani’s offensive spark is demanded.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:22
@JB: Thanks for that Jb, I think it will be a little difficult to really compare as you say, unless both players get equivelant number of games
. I think a lot of this fan thing is down to individual preferences, and fans will always be split on who they love among players. Player affinity is a divider alright. 
January 6th, 2009 at 1:35
Some interesting stats for the EPL:
Games started Goals Assists Shots Shots on target
Berba 14 3 6 31 12
Rooney 14 4 4 66 23
Ronaldo 14 8 3 85 23
Park 11 1 0 24 8
Carrick 10 2 0 20 8
Note that Berba averages two shots a game. For a forward that is seriously low and his shots are on a level with Park and Carrick who are midfielders. Personally and I use his goalscoring exploits at Tottenham to support my case, I see no reason why Berbatov cannot be scoring 20 goals a season for us in the EPL as well as contributing a good amount of assists. But he needs to take more shots. Also we need to ban Park from shooting. I think that sums up the argument for the Nani supporters: Park is a very unproductive players….hardly scores, doesn’t provide many assists. Nani on the other hand last season was very productive and for me that makes up for the occasions where he loses possession or is out of position.
So my plan to get us scoring goals again:
Play Nani or get Tosic into the first team within a month and instruct them to ping crosses into the box for Berbatov and Ronaldo to get on the end of.
Tell Berbatov to take more shots on goal because he is a damn good finisher.
Give Rooney some psychological coaching so that he scores more consistently as these goal streaks and goal droughts are just frustrating.
Chelsea are ours for the taking. 4-4-2 and attacking them is my game plan too!
January 6th, 2009 at 1:37
@JB: Seems odd that either of them would though, Tevez never came across as someone who would lie and I don’t understand why Gill and co. would do it either. Either way I’m not impressed.
It’s looking increasingly more likely we won’t sign him, which is a real shame.
I wasn’t to sure about Tevez at the end of last season to the beginning of pre-season. Wasn’t sure how much he really contributed and thought he was overrated. But then I had a look back over the season review and you see how heavily involved he was in everything, his ability to link up with others is up there with the best in our team and on top of his game he adds another dimension to our team.
His partnership with Ronaldo was key to us last season, they had such a great understanding that I didn’t realise at first. It’s not even just the passes like the one against Newcastlem it’s the little things where they just played simple passes and the other one made a run the opposite way and it created so much space.
I don’t think his benefits to the team stand out in the same way Rooney’s or Ronaldo’s does, but it’s the little things he does that often made a big difference last season.
I’d be overjoyed if we got him, even for the extra £20m odd. I really would.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:37
Mmmmmm according to our friends (NOT) the Sun, Tevez has told Argie magazine interviewer he would like to play for Real Madrid. He says he loves United and the fans, but if another club offers him a 5 year deal, then he would have to take it. If I remember correctly, isn’t this the kind of crap Tev’s agents pulled with Mascherano at L’Pool. They should understand that United are not L’fool, and trying to force United’s hand will not go down well with hierarchy. The sun reckon Tev phoned them yesterday, saying he felt he was being forced out
.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:40
@Craig Mc: Nani’s far more talented than him, in terms of physique and technical ability, but Park’s undoubtedly got a better footballing brain.
Don’t worry though Craig, I still love the lad just like you do and hope you’ve been sticking up for him plenty because I’m sure he got a fair whack of criticism on here with how little he’s played and how he’s unimpressed a few times?
January 6th, 2009 at 2:11
@Conor: Did you see the Saints game Conor Bro?. What I noticed specifically in that game, was that Nani was taking time to get his head up, and look around to see who was in space before making his passes this time. I don’t know if it is just me, but I very much noticed this in the game. I thought he was really unlucky not to get more assists in this game, because he found players in space in and around the box, and if they had been on shooting form, Nani would have had those assists
. This pleased me really, because I thought, are the coaching staff working with him at last 
. I do believe I saw a difference mate. I loved how he sent the ball onto O’Sheas head like a guided missile to its target, that led to the first goal. I was impressed too, that he stepped up to take the penalty kick, when we had strikers on the pitch. Anyway, I hope he continues to work really hard with the coaches on his game, and he comes into the form of last season, or even better – yeah better 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:13
Conor thanks mate, I did answer your comments, but I got the awaiting moderation thing, and I will wait until RR posts my post
, because I don’t want to explain it all again. It was a really encouraging post too.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:37
Ah righto Craig.
Oh, and I’d apologise to you now about the last time we talked but I don’t think a straight apology is enough, so I’ve decided I’m going to work my way back up because I’m sure I (justifiably) went down in your estimation that day.
And I won’t take no for an answer!
January 6th, 2009 at 3:26
jeez, I leave the blog for a few hours and the people who actually support my viewpoint show up. Typical
January 6th, 2009 at 5:18
@Liam: I disagree Liam, I’m back too.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:21
I wish Park plays every game, just to irritate many people here.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:38
@scrtls:
January 6th, 2009 at 8:59
the way i see it, we have been poor through out the WHOLE season, on 1 wing we have the greediest player in the world who cant shoot for shite right now! and puts in 1 cross in about 3-4 matches. then on the other side we have a player that cant shoot, pass or cross, but gives us defensive back up
, then in the centre we have 2 players that prefer to pass to the side a million times instead off passing forward.
its a surprise we have gotten as many goals as we have this season.
park give us balance BULLSHIT! we should play to our strengths, attacking football, not too the other teams weaknesses and play defensive.
Let me ask you this, does any other successful team have a park in their team?
the way i see it, nani and anderson need to start, nani our only fit winger that can cross, anderson, our only CM that will pass forward.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:17
Oh, I enjoy taking this ‘balance BULLSHIT’
January 6th, 2009 at 9:53
@ Dan – Um, yes, most successful teams have a Park in them. Look at our main rivals: Pool have Kuyt (and Keane) and Chelsea have Kalou. Both of them are ‘attacking’ players that hustle and bustle the whole game, close down defenders with the ball and basically get into good positions but don’t score often.
Like it or not in the modern game a good quality opposition will exploit you if you play a simple 442 with 4 of those players being attacking focused. This is partly due to the fitness of players today being much higher and also with using a lone striker system, and sending 3 midfielders forward to target weaker areas of your defense. If we play a formation which includes Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov and Nani it leaves us vunerable against teams doubling up on our full backs. Which is fine against crap opposition, but not fine against quality because we will pay for it.
Last season we got away with it a lot of the time because teams were too fearful to leave Ronaldo alone when they were attacking, they’d hold a midfielder in front of him, and keep a full back behind him. This season as his efficacy has gone down, teams are starting to run right past him, and unless he starts using hte space to make them pay, we’re going to really suffer, as both of our midfielders can never get forward through the middle, as they’re busy picking up Ronaldo’s man.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:23
If Park has to play which I believe Fergie feels is to protect Rafael, well is Rafael needs protecting why is he playing?
He is a good player and could be superb, but let him play I have nothing against Park and he works he socks off, but he simply like O’Shea and Fletcher if I was being really honest with myself isn’t Manchester United quality, I know Fletch has playe dwell this season but he is no where near a world class midfielder which this club deserves.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:29
@Beachryan: Both of those players you mention are attacking players who hustle but who also have an ounce of talent. Park has no talent. Truly, I am tired of all the Park BS on this site whether it’s for him or against him, it’s becoming a futile enterprise. Lets face it, Fergie does what he wants and sees something in that useless bag of fluid and bones that I and many others don’t. Fine, lets end there. Going around in circles about a useless little player is getting us nowhere. What’s the point, I’m not going to change my view unless Park himself helps me change it. And vice versa I’m sure. So too all of you, lets put the Park stuff to rest. It’s becoming overly redundant and boring.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:45
@ Grognard – Yeah fair enough. Fergie does as Fergie does.
Tevez situation is interesting, word here is that he even called up the Sun to clarify his points. Which I find hard to believe given his English skills, but something must have happened. For me the bottom line is that he’s settled, quality and a useful player to have. But he’s not worth breaking the bank if we can’t afford it.
I think the best situation would be for us to buy him for between £15 and £20m, taking into account the fact that he’ll get us nothing in return at the end of 5 years. Unfortunately, as he’s nothing more than a shiny jewel in Kia Joorchabian’s collection, I doubt Kia will settle for anything other than the highest price. If he actually gets an offer for £30m I say fair play to him, and wish him the best.
The problem with signing him is that it doesn’t solve any of our problems, other than covering Rooney/Berba for a long season. Ronaldo leaves, we’re still without a winger. We still lack a poacher for games that need one. We still lack a physical presence. Tevez is good, but like everyone said when we got him, not a necessity, more a luxury. If that luxury becomes too expensive, well you just have to move on.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:19
@Beachryan: But who would pay £30m for him?
January 6th, 2009 at 11:21
@Stephen: That’s idiotic. Besides the fact you took a completely irrelevant dig at O’Shea, Fletcher is United quality and so is Park.
Calling any one of our players useless is a utter disgrace too. (that’s not directed at you)
January 6th, 2009 at 11:24
@Stephen: Plenty of teams. Inter are planning on selling Suazo and so will have a spot open for him, Real Madrid need a player like him, Chelsea are in need of a striker and City might be in with a chance.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:35
@Conor: I am certainly not an idiot and don’t take kindly being called one.
I am entiltled to my opinion as are you and we both can say what we like, and Fletcher is not in my view a world class midfielder.
Inter up front play with one striker and that will be Ibrahimovic, thay also have Julio Cruz, Crespo, Balotelli and Adriano who probably be sold.
On eirher side they have a Mourinho favorite Quaresma and Mancini can’t see them paying £32m for Carlos.
Carlos is superb great lad brilliant attitude but we need to negotiate to bring the fee down simple and that isn’t idiotic.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:58
I’m sure you’re not an idiot, the comment itself was idiotic rather than you being an idiot. There is a difference. Fletcher’s not world class, no. Neither was Nicky Butt, neither was Phil Neville, but they still did a very important job for the team. Actually forget about them two, even Michael Carrick isn’t world class, and I rate him highly. You can’t have a squad full of world class players.
They play with one striker because none of those four can play with Ibrahimovic, although Balotelli, Adriano and Cruz have all been given a chance to this season, and failed.
A Mourinho favourite?! Where’d you get the idea he’s a favourite?! He’s only made 7 league starts from 17 games this season, so you’re well off there.
He’s worth anything under £25m more, which is likely to be what’s going to be paid for him by us or by a foreign club.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:12
@Conor: I would say Michael is not far off being world class, but he not yet.
Butt and Neville have both been sold, and were never first choice so how is that relavant?
So are we saying that we have no world class centrel midfielders then,Scholes was but now obviously age is not on his side.
Mourinho has always played one up front perdominatly, at Chelsea and Porto, he does like Quaresema and saying he is a favorite I meant that Mourinho said that he will be a “different player soon”, after he has moulded him, the same why he did with J Cole.
The comment also was not idiotic, Fletcher and O’Shea are fill in players, O’Shea is no way a left back and Fletcher is not a shoe in starter.
Would he play in front of Alonso, Gerrard or Mascherano at Liverpool?
Would he play in front of Deco, Mikel, Lampard and Essien at Chelsea?
I think not, we are short of a world class centrel midfielder in my view and that again is not idiotic.
To say Park is United quality is your view maybe like Fletch and O’Shea a squad player but not a starter, and that what the three palyers are currently.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:23
How is it relevant? Because between them they played over 500 games for us, which shows we don’t need world class squad players.
I’d say we don’t have any world class midfielders, no. On his day Scholes still is, but just on his day. World class isn’t a term that should just be thrown around like you did.
He likes Quaremas? Explain that to me, did he say that he like Quaresma any more than the rest of the team?
The three players are starters now because of injuries and suspensions, that’s it. That’s why we call them squad players.
We don’t need a world class midfielder, the jobs our midfielders do are limited in that they don’t have to be world class to play them to perfection, and Carrick and Scholes do play them to perfection.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:48
Butt was sold at 29 and Neville at 28, in their prime if they were so important in Fergies eyes he would not of sold them, they were squad players.
“We don’t need a world class midfielder”? Surely the centre of midfield is the most important position in any side, and having one world class player in that position in paramount.
What injury or suspension is Park playing over?
Fletcher you could argue over Hargo but he is playing over £18m worth of Brazialian international, so maybe a first ccoice now.
With regards to Quaresema, well Mourinho did make a point of signing him so maybe he does like the player somewhat, but thats my view.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:11
Of course they were squad players, but the only reason they were sold is because of people like Fletcher coming through and them wanting to leave! You’re either missing the point completely or ignoring it intentionally, I have no idea which one it is though.
Apparently not, seeing as we didn’t have a world class midfielder last season.
Park’s playing ahead of Hargreaves in my eyes.
Fletcher’s been playing ahead of Carrick/Scholes due to injuries, not Hargreaves.
He also signed Mancini, doesn’t mean he likes him particularly much, just that they needed wingers and he seen them as viable options. There are very few available wingers going about though so his choice was limited. Mancini’s only made 7 league starts as well for what it’s worth, so the idea that they play a 4-3-3 with Mancini and Quaresma surrounding Ibrahimovic is clearly wide of the mark.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:28
@Matthew: You called it and it was spot on. Whata great game he had!
January 6th, 2009 at 13:28
@Conor: Mancini has been injured, but I am not interested in Inter, yet anyway.
Hargreaves in a centre midfielder, who can play out wide if needed, so Park is in my view is currently first choice even if Hargo was fit.
Scholes will only start against teams inferior to us or we play three in the centre of the park, because his legs have gone, Fletcher currently is above him in the pecking order and above Anderson as we are playing 4-4-2, no I am missing the point.
We in my view still need a world class midfielder as we are net creating enough chances, Carrick is playing deep and Fletch is simply a worker. We either need a attacking goal scoring midfielder or a holder so Carrick can get forward more and create, but thats my view.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:54
@Stephen: We have 2. One of them is injured. This is why we have a squad. Carrick IS a world class midfielder. Carrick has a range of passing that is only matched by Scholes in his pomp. If he was Italian or Brazillian we’d have had to pay £30million for him easy, and he would be called a genius. Unfotunately for him he’s a barcode!
I think the purchase of Tosic combined with recent quotes from Giggs concerning his career mean that this is his last season. Scholes will most likely keep on playing, so that leaves us with the following options for next season.
1 Carrick
2 Hargreaves
3 Anderson
4 Scholes
5 Fletcher
6 Gibson
7 Possebon
With 3 quality players for 2 places and 2 decent back ups, and 2 upandcomers I think the last place we need to spend money is CM.
January 6th, 2009 at 13:58
@Stephen: That’s absurd. Firstly to say that Scholes can only play in a midfield three of against weak teams. Secondly to say Fletcher’s just a worker and thirdly that we need a new midfielder.
We just bought an attacking midfielder in Ljajic!
Christ people’s expectations have gone up on here, almost to the extent people are now overly negative.
I wonder who’s fault that might be….
@Traverse: Carrick’s not world class and his nationality has nothing to do with it.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:04
@Conor: Our recent success coincides with his arrival and what he bring to our midfield. If his name was Carrinhio and could learn how to walk around with his mouth closed nobody would question it.
Name one player who is a better passer than Carrick? Our fast attacking play over the last 2 seasons has all been possible because of his pinpoint distribution.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:04
@Traverse: Well I am not sure about if he was Brazialian we would pay more because buying English is more expensive than buying foreign. Caarick in my view has been our player of the year, and has been superb, but not World class as he only recently has got back into the England squad which know one would pay £30m for not an international player.
Hargreaves is a superb player, but he in the summer would not have played a ll full season for over 3 years, and will he ever be the same player again or will he ever be fit again, personally i love him and pray to God he will.
Anderson is a tough one, he has potential but will that come through, he played well first half of last season and tailed off, which is understanable, but he has not hit form this season regardless of what people say.
Scholes next season will be 35, the best English player of his era but unfortuantly that era has passes, but he at the moment has something to offer, but mainly as a sub
Flech is a good squad player and he energy is great, but has no real quality but a good squad player.
Gibson does nothing for me and already is 21, and going on loan will do him good next year.
Possebon is still adapting and the jury is still out, but will need time.
So in my view we could do with a centre mid.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:07
@Traverse: A better passer? Pirlo and Alonso are two.
Ignore Pirlo’s form and he’s still one of the best, if not the best passer, in world football. As is Alonso.
There’s more to someone’s game than just passing though, I wouldn’t call Alonso world class either, passing isn’t Carrick’s biggest asset anyway.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:08
@Stephen: Getting into the England team means feck all, just look at Scholes in the England team.
Didn’t stop people from Lippi and Zidane saying he was the best midfielder of their generation.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:13
its true that we dont have a Worldclass solid DM or Worldclass Solid AM..what we have is CM’s who prefer to stay back and create from there.. instead we have the wingers stepping up to get the goals from midfield… thats how we play…but if ronaldo goes and if tosic is the one who is going to replace ronaldo,then we definitely need an AMF who can score goals as ronaldo is our only available clinical finisher at this moment…
may be if anderson can step up and start scoring goals,then well and good… or if ljajic could recreate a kaka magic
January 6th, 2009 at 14:14
The real issue here is squad management. Our hands are tied because Hargreaves is injured all season and it would make little sense to spend twenty million on a replacement because by next season we will hopefully have a fit Hargreaves and an even better Anderson competing alongside Carrick for the central midfield berths.
Where we are screwing up is promoting decent squad players such as Park and Fletcher to first team duties rather than chancing on Anderson and Nani and giving the games to see if they develop.
Anderson is not yet of the standard required for a team of our stature. I mean look at Pool who have Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherona and Chelsea who have Lampard, Ballack, Deco.
Nani is not the same level as Anderson but then again other teams struggle with wide players because there is a shortage of good wide players in the modern game. Even so you could make a similar argument.
Unfortunately the same applies to Fletcher and Park. So the argument for not playing Nani and Anderson is very weak. I guess Ferguson appeals to seniority and is worried that Fletcher and Park will want to leave (I believe there was an issue with Fletcher over the summer and Ferguson had to promise him games to get him to stay).
We need to give Nani and Anderson at least a full game a week and see how much progress they make in a year. If they make the required progress in a year we can then sell Fletcher and Park if they insist on more games by which time Tosic and Posssebon/Gibson will be able to replicate their squad roles.
We are in a transition process. Scholes and Giggs are shadows of the players they were in the prime. Anderson and Nani are developing and not quite the level required. Hargreaves is out. So central midfield and the wings are our weak point this season.
Ferguson should give youth a chance and let this transition process happen naturally. But I think he is so desperate to win a few more trophies before he retires that he is playing safe and plumping for Park and Fletcher because of their experience. Moreover they are consistently average as opposed to Nani and Anderson who have good games and bad games.
Personally I believe consistency comes with regular games and if Anderson and Nani have a bad game it is unlikely to cost us a match while if they have a good game they are able to help us win matches we would otherwise have drawn.
So I can understand why we play Fletcher and Park in big away games but at home and away games against weaker teams it should be a no-brainer:
play Anderson and Park and go for a win!
January 6th, 2009 at 14:16
@Conor: How is that absurd?, Scholes is 34 and does not have the legs anymore especially as a lot of teams play with 3 in the centre, and Fletcher is a worker, he is not a creative midfielder nor a particlar goal scorer his 10 goals in 121 games sugguest that!
Ljijic is at Partisan until 2010, and who knows how good he can or will become.
My expectations are as high as always, I have been a season ticket holder for 10 years, and Keane, Robson, Scholes, Ince have all been our main stay in the side and world class. I want the best for my club and am fully behind the team and manager, and am not negative, just airing my views on a site called Red Rants.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:18
@Conor: Scholes was an England regular but retired?!?!
Zidane was the best player in the world, don’t get your point.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:23
@Stephen: He does though, the idea that he’s a sub nowadays is ridiculous.
I’ve only been a season ticket holder for the last three, so you must be a better supporter than me.(or else why would you throw that in there, other than to prove a point)
Our team is changing, we are less reliant on our centre mids because Rooney and Tevez give a bit of added steel defensively and Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney provide more than enough going forward.
Our centre mids are completely different to before, but so are our strikers. Things change and this system works without a world class midfielder.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:26
@Conor: Spot on mate….if this system works,then why should we change our system
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@Stephen: But he couldn’t get a regular place in centre mid for England and never really performed for them, performances and anything to do with England are largely irrelevant to a players overall ability. Look at Henry, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard etc. they never performed to the same heights they hit for their clubs consistently for their international teams but that doesn’t make them bad players.
Judging a player by how often he gets in a national team or how he performs for them is never a good idea.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@Conor: Give me a break, I was responding to your expectations comment, and to explain where I was comming from, and there is no need to get like that.
Who are you talking about, Scholes being a sub or Fletch?
Are team is no different and the idea of midfielders no longer being important is just nonsensicle to me, midield should and is in any team to the engine room and the most creative part of any side.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:29
@bond: Because we’re spoilt, it seems.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:32
@Conor: He performed when he was played correctly under Keegan and Hoddle.
You can’t judge a player off International form or if he plays, really?
January 6th, 2009 at 14:33
@Stephen: Scholes. Scholes-Carrick is still far and away our best partnership.
It may be nonsensical but just watch us last season for any proof you need, pretty much all of the creative threat came from the front four and our two centre mids just gave the ball to them and let the front four cause havoc.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:34
We have changed our system and style to some degree from last season with the arrival of Berbatov.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:36
@Stephen: You can’t judge a player off international form?
I’d say a definite no.
It’s a completely different game, because of the fact the system is often very different and the players rarely have time to form on-field relationships the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez have, and some very good players don’t play half as well as they can.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:37
@Conor: Would you play Scholes and Carrick on Sunday against Ballack or Deco, Lampard and Mikel? I certainly wouldn’t, with Berba and Rooney up front.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:38
@Stephen: We have indeed, only slightly though.
It’s actually made Carrick perform even better than he had done previously because it gives him license to come forward and he really stamped his authority on some games more so than last season, but I don’t understand the point you’re making.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:41
@Conor: I would not agree, but only would agree if you are soley talking about England.
I am also not a spoilt United fan, and please don’t accuse me of being one, all I am trying to do is put my point accross as are you and the digs at me are not needed.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:47
@Conor: That is debatable, we played a very fluid system last season with Wazza, Rooney and Carlito interchanging, now we are more rigid with Berba playing as more of a focal point through the middle. Last season Ronnie was allowed to come inside more as he was the main focus of our play.
We also played with 3 centre mids last season in games and have not done that this so far, so we have changed from last season.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:50
@Stephen: We play around 6 big teams a season at most, that’s around 12 big games. For them games I would go for a middle three with Anderson, Carrick and Scholes. That doesn’t mean Carrick-Scholes aren’t the first choice partnership because they’re likely to play the rest of the matches, more than any other partnership.
Oh, and I wouldn’t call you spoilt in any sense, although I don’t think we need to expect anything more when we’re the double winners, with arguably the best squad in world football, so I’d say your expectations are quite high in comparison to mine. It was more of a comment about the general consensus.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:56
@Stephen: I don’t think Berbatov has effected Ronnie’s role at all, he still cuts inside plenty and he still gets plenty of chances, he just misses them. I’d say Park’s had as much of an effect on him, because it leads to Ronaldo playing most of his games on the left.
The bit about centre mids might have more to do with Queiroz, but I’d hope not.
We’ll find out against Chelsea, but if we play 4-4-2 I’ll worry.
January 6th, 2009 at 14:59
@Conor: All I expect from us is to play good football and to compete, and play with the integrity I have become expectent of, I have not told you before what my expectations were, but anyway.
I would love the Scholes of a few years ago play with Carrick because either one could sit and go forward, and I would hate to play against them in piggy in the middle at training, that would be a nightmare.
It does depend on who we play against, Scholes can and has never been able to tackle, Carrick is more of an intersepter than a in your face kind of midfielder and in big games against the stongest midfield you need that.
If Hargo was fit I would play those two with him, but alas that is not the case.
January 6th, 2009 at 15:00
@Conor: I find the whole CQ thing a falacy, Fergie runs the team know one else.
January 6th, 2009 at 15:09
I have a feeling that 2009/10 will be a major, major season for us like 2007/08 was. This season however I can see United only winning one trophy and probably exiting the Champion’s League quite early e.g. before the semis, as we are suffering a hangover it seems from our unprecedented success last year. 2009/10, however, will be the year when we are back to our imperious best!
This will be down to three reasons: 1) Hargo will be back!! I can’t help but think that our current malaise could be in part due to his absence, and the fact that some of our best performances last year came when he played is no coincidence at all. 2) the likes of Anderson, Nani, Foster, Rafel, Fabio and Tosic will be ready to fully stake a claim for a permanent place in the starting XI as Giggs, Scholes, EVDS and Gaz Nev prepare for their swansong season 3) Fergie will make one (possibly two) new signing in the summer and we will definitely be the most complete football team in Europe, if not the world. Hopefully Tevez will still be with us next year, but if not, then Fergie will (hopefully) sign a genius player like Aguero or Arshavin to replace him (I can dream…).
January 6th, 2009 at 16:15
Tried to read all the articles and comments that I missed while on holiday, just too much.
I just want to add that I think for the past 2-3 games, Berbatov is SLOWLY starting to impress me. Not regarding his skill – to deny he hasn’t is obviously stupid, but for his workrate lately, and also his performance and attitude on the pitch. He had a good game on Sunday, but I doubt he will often get that much space. Still, he had a very good game. I hope he continues like this so that I can start seeing Cantona in him.
For those lambasting Anderson. Sure he had a bad game. But, so did Giggs, Possenbon, Gibson, Evans, etc. He needs a some games again to get in his stride. One very noticing thing was the way he just looked in a different class to Possenbon and Gibson when they were on the pitch. And, WTF is this with Gibson playing on the wings? What gives SAF the impression that he did a good job there in the previous games?
January 6th, 2009 at 16:18
This whole Tevez thing amuses me!!!…why in the hell would Fergie go around toying with that guy Tevez??
Fergie’s tactics and attitude pulled down a player who committed 4-5 yrs for United, a fan’s favourite from the top of his game and confidence to a filthy low that he announced in press that he would like to play for Real
..
I never understood what was the problem that we were trying to fix from last year..only problem i saw was Rooney’s scoring record….
Ronaldo-42,Tevez-19,Rooney-12 odd…If rooney can provide that 20-23 goals and if our midfield can step up their tally a little bit we were pretty much good…
The all attacking and worth a watch team is gone and what we have is a team who plays boring football and come out with 1-0 wins all the time…
Still dont understand what went wrong…
January 6th, 2009 at 16:47
Well, first.. belated happy new year to fellow ranters!
@Stephen: Stephen mate.. I agree that Berbatov’s inclusion has caused the fluid motion of the forward play to decrease drastically. I have rarely seen Ronnie in the middle this season (compared to last yr).. now it is only the right or the left that he is found. And I for one would like to see this solved. I’m not saying kick Berbatov out, but I’m just in favour of affording Ronaldo his freedom of last season.
January 6th, 2009 at 16:50
The Tevez issue is highly annoying for me. I don’t wanna see him leave in the summer. I’d much rather see the ‘Rooney Ronaldo Tevez’ trinity play week in week than any other combo. They have the collective teamwork creativity, grit, determination and skill to get the job done. Plus the boy the loves playing for us.. which is a rare thing these days!
January 6th, 2009 at 16:55
@Conor: The system works Conor if you want to watch BORING SHITE FOOTBALL.
January 6th, 2009 at 16:57
@Shyam: IIRC Rooney did score something like 18 or 19 goals last year, not 12 like you said. Agree about Tevez though, it’s a shame what’s happened to him…
January 6th, 2009 at 16:57
@Stephen: You go Bro
. I want the best MF too, but we aint got one at the moment 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:14
@dan(u-ol): Strangely enough my friend, I agree with most of what you have said in this post
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:18
@scrtls: And to give us a few more BORING SHITE 1-0 or 0-0 games no doubt
.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:31
Agreed we have reverted to 4-4-2 (or more like 4-4-1-1) which is very different from the 4-3-3 we favoured on many occasions last season. Perhaps this is the influence of Quieroz leaving…Ferguson is reverting to what he knows best and the arrival of Berbatov allows him to do this.
We have the players to be able to adapt but it will take time. The most important thing is to improve the service from central midfield so Berbatov stops this bad habit he has of always dropping too deep to get the ball.
January 6th, 2009 at 17:32
@Conor: O my God Conor mi man, did you say something to me that warrented an apology?
. Just shows you mate, I can’t even recall what on earth it could have been. You know what Conor, I just say what I have to say, and love to get into scraps dissenting with others of differing viewpoint, but I never take it to heart Bro, and remember, because to me it just FANDOM.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:08
rafael has played 15 times this season, at least 3-5 off those games where off the bench. park has played, 19 teams, only one off the bench if memory serves correct. to say park is there to cover rafael is BS because 1 he has started more games, and 2, our wingers always chance wings.
but as grognard says, this is getting nowhere so might aswell end it.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:09
@Craig Mc:
January 6th, 2009 at 18:26
@dan(u-ol): I wasn’t being rude to you Dan(u)ol mi man. I was just saying I agreed with most of your points. As you know, I don’t always agree with all points a person might make in a particular post
. We cool then Bro?.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:27
@Craig Mc: Not too much to ask is it bro??!!
January 6th, 2009 at 18:29
@dan(u-ol): that comment wasnt for you lol, the one below was lol, that was just a comment for all!
January 6th, 2009 at 18:34
United is one of the biggest clubs a footballer can join. Players that have been successful elsewehere are not always so at OT and can then leave and be subsequently successful. A certain confidence is required. Carrick I think is already close to world class and when he accepts that he is the main man in the centre, having learned from Scholes and wearing Keane’s old shirt with pride, he will blossom still further.
Now Andy needs to be playing regularly alongside him and doing his apprenticeship. Fergie admitted to using Andy and Nani more last year than he had expected – both playing well and part of our successful team, but the confidence that must have given them to my mind has been negated by being played less in the first half of this season when surely they would have anticipated playing at least as often.
Andy played against the best midfielders in the league last year, on their patch, and bossed them. Fabregas is even in his song. In the absence of Hargreaves, he should be allowing Carrick to get forward ( probably our best striker of the ball who can work space for himself in tight areas) and at other times be the one to get forward because he commits defenders as he drives straight into their area of the field and can produce a telling pass at pace. I think he is unsure of what is wanted of him yet he should be well into his apprenticeship by now.
Buying young players is exciting but they are entitled to the proper training.
January 6th, 2009 at 18:39
We need a new thread because the topics of conversation on this one have gone boring and infuriating as Hell. Can you hear me RR, wherever you are?
January 6th, 2009 at 18:47
Does anyone care about tomorrows game, with regards to the fact we have the rent boys on Sunday?
January 6th, 2009 at 18:52
@Stephen: I care! (about the fixture in General) I might go to the second leg!
January 6th, 2009 at 19:06
After saying that, I realise that Id like a win over Chelsea over everything else.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:22
The Trials and Tribulations of the Terrible Terrier Tevez
Regarding this Carlos Tevez mess that has been brewing the last few days, I’m surprised more of you have not voiced in with your thoughts on this. I for one cannot blame the lad one bit as I think he has been shown no respect and has also been lied to. Sad that United would come out months ago and say that they were promising to sign him for an estimated 32 million but now they just seem to have forgotten his existence. WTF? What’s going on?
I like Carlos Tevez but I don’t love him as a player. For me he is a talented player with great desire and ability to affect a game just when you need it to be. He has a flair for scoring in clutch situations and has always been a fan favorite since his arrival. Carlito is a fine talent but just not my cup of tea. For all his positives (and there are many), there are things that he just does not offer as a forward which leave me to believe that we can do better and sign someone else who will offer us more goals per game and more of a presence in the box. Tevez is too much like Rooney as he likes to roam, track back too far and get involved in the play in areas far away from the 18 yard box. He is like a possessed and rabid terrier as he just runs runs runs and causes havoc. He isn’t a tall man and his lack of height has always been a concern for me being that he is a striker. He also hasn’t got the greatest burst of pace or the long strides to get past a defender in a one on one situation. He is not dominant in the air due to his height yet I can say he has scored more goals with his head in one year and a half than Wayne Rooney or even RVN ever did. He contributes positively in his own unique way and I suppose too many like myself, he is an acquired taste.
So what is to become with Carlos Tevez? I for one have no problem with the club keeping him but truthfully, is he worth the money his agent is demanding and the money that it will cost to buy out his contract? The answer is NO. Carlito is just not worth 32 million. Sorry Tevez fans but I call a spade a spade and he is just not worth that kind of money. Not when two great players can be purchased for that price and not when there are other more pressing needs for the team than a third striker. Some of you may ask how I believe we don’t need another #3 striker? Frankly, I have more than a lot of faith in both Frazier Campbell as well as Danny Welbeck to fill that role next season. Campbell is ready and certainly Welbeck has not embarrassed himself in his limited auditions. Too me Tevez is an overpriced extravagance when I feel we should be filling other spots with players of quality. For example, I am of the belief that although Anderson has shown significant improvement of late, the need for a central midfielder of high quality is needed. Either a defensive minded midfielder of the hard quality like a Van Bommel, Senna or DeRossi mode, or an attacking maestro who can scheme, finesse and manage the team’s offensive style.
We also should be looking for a proper backup to Ronaldo. Tosic was really bought for the left side to compete with Nani and Giggs. Giggs is hinting of retirement after this season and so finding yet again another versatile winger who is comfortable on both sides or a wiz on one side is important. And I do not want to hear see the word PARK mentioned in any replies please. Unlike some of you, that player just rubs me the wrong way and he is the antithesis of what Manchester United football stands for.
Finally, we should seriously be looking fro van der Sar’s replacement. Sory folks but Foster is not the man and the sooner we all come to agreement on that, the sooner we can come to agreement on who should be EVDS successor. I nominate Boruc, Adler, Frey, Malfeev, Akinfeev or Neuer
as my main choices. All world class keepers and all more than capable of manning the position for a long time. I for on e would be over the moon if we were to get either Boruc, Adler or Neuer. Other than the proven Buffon, Cech and Casillas, I would rate these the next best keepers on the planet. With 32 million we can fill these weak or aging spots in our lineup.
When I read the rumors of Fergie still wanting to buy Karim Benzema, I physically get sick to the stomach. Nausea overtakes me. Not only do I feel Benzema is highly overrated, but I think he is the last player this club should ever consider buying. He is a selfish player with grand delusions of himself and where he wants to go in his career. He absolutely loves Spain and especially Real Madrid and we certainly know what that means to our club. He has the ability to be a destabilizing force on the club with an attitude reserved for me me me. I see no pleasing him and I see no way that he will accept a rotation with Rooney and Berbatov yet alone the position of #3 forward. Not gonna happen.
So this all brings us back to Carlito and what to do with him. Unfortunately I have to bid the fine Argentine farewell. Frankly, he doesn’t deserve that kind of money. I personally value him around 17 million. He is far from a prolific goal scorer and other than his tenacious and terrier-like style of play, he doesn’t posses one specific skill that is world class and something we can’t do without. So unless he and his agent come way down on their asking price and that the final buyout price comes way down to about 20 million from 32, then I am reserved to losing his services for 2009/10.
There is no doubt in my mind that United have avoided making a deal due to their intention to drive his price way down. Don’t play him and cause him frustration while making other clubs look elsewhere or even question their initial interest. Problem with this strategy is that it has the potential to severely unsettle the player himself and cause him to feel betrayed and ill treated. And this seems to have come out in Carlito’s recent interview on Argentine radio. This is a player who has called Fergie and the club a pack of liars and has denied even being made an offer, yet alone refusing it. I have a feeling that Tevez’ last days in a Manchester United uniform will be sad and bitter ones, and for that I am sad and very sorry. Although he wasn’t my favorite, he deserved better from us and we let him down.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:37
@Grognard: well said, grog; my thoughts exactly. i personally really like tevez but 32 million is an unjustifiable amount for him, especially when it can go a long way to help rectify some of united’s problems. i just really hope that the club can make it up to him prior to letting him go; i’d really hate to see him leave with ill feelings.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:44
@Stephen: What do you mean do we care
, Stephen it’s a trip out to Wembley mate for the final 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:45
@bildani: Unfortunately mate, the club’s hierarchy have already caused problems and his frustration is at a point now that he has begun to rebel off the field. This has never been a strategy that any player has used successfully in the past when dealing with Fergie. Ask Ruud van Nistelrooy what happens when you bitch about the team or your contract or your playing time. This recent outburst by Carlito I feel, just helped stamp his one way ticket out of town.
When it comes down to it, I think the recent credit crunch has hurt the team more than they are willing to admit. I have always had my doubts about the Glazer’s intent and their high debt load, but now, they have taken a tremendous hit back in the States and I think this will cause them to severely reduce the transfer kitty amounts they usually give the club to play with as well, I think the contracts they serve out to players will be carefully looked at and examined. Therefore, offering Tevez a contract like he is asking and buying out his initial contract is just not sound business when you are pinching pennies. So the fault is part Tevez and part United. One is greedy and the other is strapped for cash. It’s a no win scenario I’m afraid.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:50
@the three Rs: Mate, Carrick frustrates the hell out of me when he is up around the penalty box in shooting positions. Instead of shooting the darn ball straight away, he just dilly dallies or takes an extra step and seems to finish up getting tripped with his own feet
. He should hit the ball without thinking, when he did that against Roma at OT and scored 2 great goals. Apart from that his all round general play is ok.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:54
@Craig Mc: I know I am in the minority mate but I seriously don’t care. I have no respect for a tournament or cup competition that is not taken seriously by the team enough to field their best players all the time. It’s fifth or sixth on Man Utd’s to do list every season after the CL, the League, the FA Cup and the World Club Cup or European Super Cup. All it is and has been for a long time is a beast of burden. Yet more games in an already packed schedule and more chances for our players to get injured.
So it has fallen to a few starters, all our bench players and the reserves to carry our banner through the tournament. Big Whoopie. It’s a bush league tournament that Fergie doesn’t take seriously. Why then should I or any of us? If we win fine, yet another trophy. If we lose it, so what. Spurs and all the other rejects of the game need something to define their useless existence by. I say hand them a bone and not waste valuable time, effort and manpower pursuing an albatross. My greed centers around three trophies. The League, the Champions League and the FA Cup in that order. Everything else is trivial and useless in my humble opinion.
January 6th, 2009 at 19:59
@Craig Mc: That hesitation or dilly dallying as you call it is just being plain slow in my opinion. In North America we have term for his lack of quickness and pace as well as reaction time. Carrick is a LEADFOOT. Greeks have a saying that doesn’t translate well into English but still gets the message across. By the time the one leg moves, the other one is rotting. Carrick constantly frustrates me with his slow footedness and inability to find a real burst of speed or just get rid of a ball without it looking like a poorly oiled machine. Great skills but performed in slow motion.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:22
@Grognard: i agree with everything apart from the keeper comments. lets be honest grognard, you have only seen foster play once maybe twice. i remember after the blackburn game, you hadnt seen the match and was quick to blame foster, when in fact all 3 conceded goals was down to our star centre back, gary neville. foster is much better then you think, you shouldnt judge this guy when you havent seen enough of him.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:22
@Grognard: I’m not sure Grog really. If United believed he was worth 32 million in the first place, why not just pay it there and then?. I think perhaps the club may have always had doubts. I would definately agree, IMO he is never worth 32 million. Also, Rooney, Berba and Tev are sameness. They are all like a pride of lions prowling the MF and outside the box, but none of them seem to really like to frequent the box, so it is usually uninhabited until too late. I would like to see us get another striker who just loves to inhabit that box, and is found there where a striker should be when the balls come into the box. I’m not for all this hovering around just outside the box, and trying to run in late. Still, not all fans would agree with my sentiments no doubt
.
I don’t really feel we have treated Tev badly Grog. I mean it is going to hurt isn’t it to know that you are not deemed to be worth 32 million, hurt pride I guess, but we cannot be all sentimental about this, to the clubs hurt. I haven’t spoken to any fan who believes he is worth 32 million. Last few seasons the PL has been profligate with INFLATED transfer fees, and wages, but with the credit crunch this is now unreasonable and to be honest greedy disdain for such times of poverty.
I reserve judgement on Campbell and Welbeck, because they have proved nothing for us yet. Until we see them in the big PL and CL games, who’s to say they will make it as top players for Man Utd FC. Not me anyway. We all hope they will come good though, but we can’t depend on that at the minute.
We need a MF enforcer of the highest quality, and I have been saying that for nearly 2 seasons now.
I have loved Tev, and he is a combatant, but we have 3 same-same strikers now, and only room for two of the same ilk. I want an out and out speedy striker, and MF strongman, and that will do me
.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:30
@Grognard: Awww Grog, not that bad surely
. Like I said, he wasn’t lead footed against the Roma in the thrashing we gave them, but he just seemed to run on to the ball and whack it in that game. I got the feeling Grog, that most of our play seems to be in slow motion this season, so much BACK passing which I detest. So this might have put players like Carrick into slow mode, because I don’t think he has always been like that Grog, seriously.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:34
@dan(u-ol): Sorry mate, I don’t have to see a lot of him to realize he’s not what I want or what United need. I pride myself on being a great judge of quality keepers and although I may have been a little unfair to Foster, I see a player who is poor on crosses, and who seems a little hesitant and unsure of himself. So much time off has hurt him greatly and he just continues to get injured. A brittle keeper is the last thing we need. I want a goalkeeper who is not just a great shot stopper and who makes solid judgments on high balls. I want a keeper who is full of confidence and who has presence and commands respect in the box from both the opposition and especially his own teammates. A player like Schmeichel where when he stared you down or shouted at you, your knees began to wobble a bit. A keeper who can be clutch and make the big save in a game even if he has had a poor game. I’m sorry but I don’t see that in Foster and EVDS days are surely numbered. For me Boruc, Adler and Neuer demonstrate almost all of those qualities, and Adler is also a lifelong United fan. Let Foster go somewhere and reprove himself. His time at United has been unfortunate for both him and the club and I for one am not willing to bank the team’s future on a keeper I am not confident can make the grade nor stay healthy.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:37
@Craig Mc: Things will pick up soon mate, I’m sure of that. You can’t underestimate how big a loss Scholes is.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:39
@Grognard: Awwww Grog PLEASE
. I love watching our reserve and youth games as well as our 1st team, so to me, it is a golden opportunity for the youth to be blooded. I want to support our peripheral players too, especially if they are part of our future. It is good for them, and anyway, a trip to Wembley for a drunken weekend frolic post match is welcome, especially for the good bunch of lads and banter/playtime we all have. I don’t count the cup anything, its the least we want to win, but I still want to win. And it brings in more good money for our new player coffers 
. Come on your 2nd string Red Devils, I wish you well. Don’t scold me Grog please – haha.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:40
Oh, and Boruc would be a rubbish signing.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:41
@Conor: I know Conor, he was such a great legend for us. Still has some gas left in the tank, but we have no like replacement in the ready do we mate?.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:48
@Craig Mc: Craig, we have treated him poorly. Last year Tevez was a starting forward that scored almost 20 goals for us and contributed greatly in our run for the Double. His value was great but not 32 Million worth of great. He is not the player we need but still, he did nothing to lose his place in the starting lineup.
Five months ago I predicted numerous times on this blog that Carlos Tevez was going to leave after this season because once Berbatov or Huntelaar showed up, he would be out of a starting job. Fergie was hungering for a different look and Carlito was too much like Rooney. Well we all know Rooney wasn’t going to lose his place and once it was determined that Berbatov was the man, fergie was certainly not going to pay 32 million for him to watch him sit on the bench as the club’s #3 striker.
Many disagreed with me back then and thought I was full of shite. The Grognard may not always be right but he is far from being full of shite. I called it as I saw it and as my own feelings on the situation proved to be correct, I now stand up with pride telling all of you, I TOLD YOU SO.
Carlos Tevez is not the player we need as a #3 striker. But Craig, here is where you and I disagree. You believe that Campbell and Welbeck are not ready or good enough to be elevated into that role. I do. The idea of buying another world class player like Benzema and having him take that role is absurd for us all to consider. No great player should or would want to take on that role. Therefore, give it to your young and up and coming players and let them prove themselves. Campbell’s time has arrived. Baed on the way you are thinking I am amazed we ever gave Ole Gunnar Solksjaer the time of day. He wasn’t as good as Cantona, or Cole or Yorke or even Sheringham. But he played the role of #4 or #4 forward with joy and pride and he elevated himself into a top class player by simply being available and making the best of his opportunities. Campbell and Welbeck deserve the chance to prove they can do this also. They are both rated high not just by us and United but by others as well. Let them have season to show what they can do in that role and then make a decision. The team will not be let down and the team will also have more harmony with far less ego sitting on the bench festering with bitterness and unhappiness. Finally, both players are forwards who like to live in the box. Exact opposites to Berba and Rooney. I say make it so.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:58
@Craig Mc: Mate don’t take this badly cause you know I love ya but I am truly tired of blokes constantly bringing up the 7-1 thrashing we gave Roma a few years back. Not only is it ancient history but it was a mirage, a fluke a one in a million occurrence. It was a trick of the light. We came up against a Roma club that was badly hurting with injuries and on a night where all the planets aligned well for us and where Roma’s biorhythms were way down. Too much is made by that pounding we gave them. They proved to us last season that it was a fluke as they played hard against us and even deserved to win one of the games they played against us.
As for Carrick, he is a leadfoot, like it or not he is very slow with his feet. I know because I relate. I was a very good athlete in my day having been successful in a number of sports but my one Achilles heel was foot speed. I too was a leadfoot. Had I been faster I think I would have pursued a career in either US style football or hockey. I had all the skill but no speed and my reaction time when it comes to my legs and my speed from starting point to end point was woefully not acceptable. Carrick really drags his ass sometimes when he and his body should show some urgency. He’s still a very good player and is surprisingly pretty decent defensively considering he cannot catch an old lady stealing handbags.
January 6th, 2009 at 20:59
@Conor: You are welcome to your opinion mate. I personally feel your thoughts on him are as well.
January 6th, 2009 at 21:00
@Grognard: Groggy! You say that Well we all know Rooney wasn’t going to lose his place. With all dur respect! When you talk about Rooney, do you speak in sarcasm! Cause honestly, half the people on this blog know that
Rooney> Tevez
So Fergie is definitely right to choose Rooney over Tevez!
January 6th, 2009 at 21:03
@Craig Mc: That’s fine Bro. Remember, you live there and can take advantage of experiencing them more than I can. I live too far away to concern myself with what the reserves are doing. I am preoccupied with the big three competitions as they alone are more than enough football for me to worry about as well as my passion for Bayern Munich and the German National side. League cups are just a big risk in my books and a serious fatigue factor on both our players and coaches.
January 6th, 2009 at 21:05
@Darth Red Diablo: No I am not being sarcastic. There was never ever going to be a threat on Rooney to lose his starting spot. He along with Ronaldo are Fergie’s boys and can do no wrong. Tevez only chance of winning a spot was to beat out Berbatov. And we all know what has happened there.
By the way, love the change to your nickname. Classic.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:03
Off topic I know, but I was born and live in burnley hehe – come on you Clarets!
1-0 up at Spurs! (HT)
Also, I hope Nani starts tomorrow again; the kid needs minutes on the pitch!
Peas out, hope you’re all well chaps and chapettes.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:09
@Grognard: Grog it wasn’t my intention to bring up the 7-0 thrashing match. It was the game I chose, because I could remember what Carrick was doing on that night, and he didn’t dilly dally on the ball. That was all I was trying to point out in referencing that game, nothing else.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:12
@m34ch: That is my worst nightmare mate – sorry. To have to play Burnley instead of another PL team at Wembley. Not wishing to offend you though, but really. Burnley have done very well against the big teams though
. I don’t get it, because Spurs played like demons against UNited and forced a draw, and yet one nil down to the Burnley – its a joke 
.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:19
@Grognard: Grog I’m a fanatic
, I’m interested in every aspect of my football club. But I understand why you are only interested in those 3 major trophies. I believe they are the only things that are deemed wothy tournaments of winning, but for me, I also like to give the youngsters some support.
I am not against Welbeck and Campbell getting an opportunity to prove themselves for the reasons mentioned above, but they do have to prove that they can score at the higher level, which Tev has proved. I understand and agree with your position on our young strikers won’t mind being on the bench. Thing is, after being at Hull last season, Campbell said he would have to see if he got regular football before deciding whether to stay with United or sign for another club. So it doesn’t follow that Campbell will not mind sitting on the bench, because he said he will mind.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:26
@Grognard: You got it right Grognard!!. If Tevez didnt do anything bad last season and team dint do bad either and if Welbeck/Campbell are good enough backups who live in the box why did we buy Berbatov for 30 mill pounds???
He wanders outside the box like Tevez..still havent gel that much in the team or dint do it as fast as Tevez did…For some reason with him team doesnt show that fluidity that we require..
Now lets be honest…What happened to last years double winning team…Ronaldo is whining!! Rooney gets frustrated easily ..0-0 and 1-0 are routine scorelines…Dont you miss the team which moved the ball freely from one end of the pitch to other in the flash of an eye…
I have heard a lot of ppl bashing “Boring..” “zzz” in between matches in this blog..Have we ever seen that last term??..Even in second gear we were able to fly past mid table teams….It all started becoz we got the wrong man in the summer…No offense to berbatov as a player…he has immense quality and great finishing skills….but he was not the missing piece of the jigsaw
What we required was another option or dimension of attack other than our fluid attack which depended lot on the Roo-Tev-Ronnie…What we have now a languid Tevez with a bagful of tricks and flicks…
Fergie may be was trying to prove something by getting berbatov and playing him ahead of a well settled squad…
January 6th, 2009 at 22:34
@Grognard: I honeslty feel sorry for the lad.
Tevez is a type of player that would walk into any, absolutely any side in the world. A player with true determination, grit, will to win and a pretty good finisher. Chelski would want Tevez, Arsenal, Liverpool, Real, Bayern, Barca, Milan, Juventus. But there is one problem that does that Tevez well and truly doesnt fit in here. The fact is named Wayne Rooney! Wazza has everything that Tevez has. He has passion, grit, determination, never wants to relax and always wants to win, and a talent for deciding important games. But Wayne also has a few advantages that Tevez doesnt. First of all, Rooney is English. Like it or not, but Ive seen in many comments that Fergie has made that he admires Englsih footballer and wants them. Really wants them! If Fergie buys a player, and english player, you will see that Fergie always mentions the fact that he is english. Take Michael Carrick or Owen Hargreaves. He say things like “brings new dimension to our team”, “he will be an important asset” and “He has the quality to become a great player here”. But when it came to Owen, Carrick or Rooney, he mentioned this: “He is English”. I am not gonna be judging here on Fergie, because I understand him. If he gets the chance, he would rather play a britishman over a foreign. I understand, because he wants us to keep our british heritage, and not become like Arsenal with no Englishmen. Talking about Welbeck. “Home grown lad”. Frazier. “Englishman with bright future”. Foster. “He will be Englands number 1 in some years”. Tevez would be great, and vitally important for every team that needs someone like that. Unfortunately we dont, as we already have Rooney.
Benzema is not overrated. Selfish, stupid, worst personality Ive ever seen in a footballer, or a human being, thinks too high of himself, likes Real and quite easily put: A cunt. If we had a player with that talent, with possibly Scholes personality, I cant see how Fergie would not drool over such a player. He would spend £40 millions if he had to, even if its silly money. Now let me say this: I can of cource not guarentee that statement, but Scholes is what Fergie has called the most perfect proffesional in the game. And he has also stated that Benzema is one of the best strikers on the planet(March 2008). You do the math…
Well, I think we can probably say that Tevez will leave. I could say “here we go again” with the rolled eyes in the end, but I think this is a quite different situation to Ronaldos sage. First of all, the differences are clear. There is one that Ronaldo is the star player of our team, while Tevez is most of the time a substitute. The other is that when Fergie was asked about Ronaldos situation with Real, he always said there was no chance of Ronny leaving. When it comes to Tevez he says he doesnt know whats going on. That is not a good sign. Then, Ronaldo did not publicly say that Fergie was wrong, that he didnt care which club he played for as long as they wanted him, that he is not happy with his role in the team, or that he was confused with everything that went on. Despite my hate for Ronaldo during the summer, I think what he did was not as bad as the papers put it. He said some silly things, but never did he question the manager, or say he would play for ANY team in the world, or that he was unhappy in the team. He stated time and time again that he was happy at United, and that we could see spending a lot of time at this club. Whereas Tevez says he wants to leave for Boca when he reaches his peak. And the most important factor, which is that we dont own Tevez. We own Ronaldo. We own Rooney. We own Berbatov. Carrick, Evra, Welbeck even. Tevez as it seems is not owned by anyone. Tevez will cost us £32 million. Ronaldo would cost us nothing more than he is now. Tevez will have to settle for a place on the bench. Ronaldo is a promised and safe starter. Tevez has a family, which obviously wants him to spend time with them. Ronaldo has no wife or children. He has his mother and brother, and Anderson and little man Nani(can I also call him that Craig?). From what Ive heard from newpapers and TV, Ronaldo lives with Anderson and Nani for most of the year(Late Autmn, winter and early spring), while his mother and brothers live with him during April to October, and around Christmas. Okey, why did I start writing about Ronaldos life?! Came a little out of the case, sorry.
What will we do if/when Tevez leaves us? Will we instantly buy a new striker? Villa, Benzema, Aguero, maybe even sucky Owen? Question is, will any of these players settle for a place on the bench(Berbatov and Rooney are obviously preffered up front)? The former three wold definately not. They are really good, young strikers and will want to show themselves as regulars at the best club in the world. But we must remember that at least 2 of them would cost at least as much as Tevez. When it coems to Owen he is doing all he can do come in the England team, and despite his injuries is a perfect striker. Kinda in the Ruud mould, but just a horsehead shorter. lol. He would probably be happy and not complain to be on the bench, because when you are not starting for Newcastle, how the hell can you expect to start for United?! So Owen is a good option. Then we have the two young Englishmen, Welbeck and Campbell. Both has scored in the top English division, showed themselves as fairly good players when they has played and they have a really bright future ahead of them. Danny is only 18, while Campbell is 21, I think. Somewhere around there! I have high hopes for them both, but I really wonder if they can both play for this team at the same time. They are incredibly similar! They can both finish, they are amazingly fast, they can use both feet(and head), they are good at positioning for their age, and they have a good temperament and not to mention their aggresion levels. Its not far away from Tevez` I tell ya! At least Frazier, in the Newcastle game I remember him running after players like a terrier, fighting for every ball and showing the English winning mentality. I think he is the best, but he is also 3-4 years older so…
Its difficult for me, because I love Tevez! But he is not worth taht amount of money. And we know he is gonna leave us in a few years. So what do you think?
January 6th, 2009 at 22:37
@RedDevilEddy: I think that is by far the longest comment Ive ever made!
And probably the best one too! 
January 6th, 2009 at 22:43
@m34ch: Looks like Burnley are down and out, even before the game at home against Spurs. Can a championship team really manage to beat a good Premiership side in a semi final of a cup at least 3-0? They need get at least another consolation goal, as they can win 2-0 against Spurs. They did it against Arsenal, why not against Tottenham? They are equally as good(4-4!
).
I really want to face Spurs in the final. We should get past Derby with ease, I just hope we take our chances! In a final, you should face the best team possible. Chelski, Liverpool, Arsenal and Villa are all out, so that just leaves Spurs. I dont want Burnley! Berbatov to score the winner at Wembley!
January 6th, 2009 at 22:48
@Craig Mc: No I realize that Bro but you were the unlucky winner of my “Who’s going to be the next person to bring up the 7-1 Roma win award”. The prize is an evening with Grognard talking about German football and how it is better than the English game. And you my Bro are the winner.
Poor fellow! 
January 6th, 2009 at 22:50
@Craig Mc: So how do they get a chance to score at the highest level unless they get the fair opportunity to do so? They need a an extended run to see what they have and then a decision can be made on whether the club needs to buy another striker. Until then, lets give them a shot.
January 6th, 2009 at 22:55
@Shyam: You get no argument from me mate. I love Berbatov and all he offers but for me Huntelaar was the man, and always will be. We needed an in the box predator who could score goals like RVN. Berbatov with all his quality is like a Cantona but lets not make the mistake that he is a Cantona. Further more, when Cantona was allowed to play his game for United, the club had other players who could play the traditional striker role in the box. This team does not. Berbatov is capable of being a traditional in the box striker as I have seen him play that role for both Leverkusen and Spurs but our system and Fergiue’s requirements are such that players have to track back fully and get involved in the action in midfield. Because of our slow buildup no space is created in the hole for him to take advantage of and thus he has no room to utilize his immense skill set. It’s all so frustrating.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:00
@Grognard: for all we know huntelaar would/could be a major flop, and recent history supports it.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:00
@Shyam: The main reason why we managed to roll over teams easily last season was not because of Tevez. It was because we managed at least a fucking early goal each 3rd game. Villa, Liverpool, Boro, West Ham, Newcastle(away), Derby. We scored least 2 goals before haf time in those games. When have we seen that happend this season? Our biggest wins are 3-0 against Soton, Celtic and Aalborg, and 5-0 against Stoke. In the 3-0 wins, we led 1-0 at half time in every match. Cortesy of goals from Rooney, Berbatov and Welbeck. Against Stoke we led 1-0 after 4 minutes, and 2-0 at half time. Let me think this season. Against Liverpool and Chelski we scored early. Both our goals came in the first half, one in the 3rd and the other in the 22nd minute. We missed tons of chances, I can remember especcialy Tevez right after Wes own goal at Anfield, when he skied a low Anderson cross over the bar from 8 yards. Then it was at Shitbridge, where Fletcher, Rio and Rooney missed chances that would be goals 9/10 for a normal team. Against Arsenal, didnt Rooney sky a shot over from 16 yards, or Carrick shoot just outside of of the post in the first 10 minutes. I think that game was the one we started the best game of the season. If I would judge that game by only the first 30 minutes, that would be our game of the season so far. Not by goals, but by chances created and brilliant attacking play. But then came Nasri and…
Boro, Shitty, LDQ or Celtic(away). Can anybody please tell me if you have forgotten teh start we made in all those games. If those games had been a normal game in 2007/08, we would have led at least 3-0 at half time. We skied shots, hit the post, missed sitters, hit goalkeepers, arms, faces, butts, you name it! If we had only scored on at least 1/3 chance we would get in each game, our goal difference and position in the league would be very much better. We would have won at Shitbridge, Emirates, Villa Park or Spurs. It wouldnt have been only 1-0 against Sunderland, LDQ, Boro or Pompey. We would at least have seen four 4-0 wins this season. How many have we seen? Not a single one! Two 5-3s, one 5-0 and three 3-0s. Best results we have been getting these season. Its not creating chances, being in the right place or just lack of talent. We just are not managing to score 100% chances anymore! That is our problem, that is why opponents defend. We create chances, but dont score, so why should they?! If we would score more goals in the first half, we would probably see many more goals. I relaly hope 2009 will be the proof of that.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:06
@Craig Mc: None at all, we’ll have to change another winning system because there aren’t many players like Scholes these days. I’m worried, because most likely we’ll replace him with Anderson, but we replaced Keano with Carrick so I have faith in Sir Alex as always. While we’re on that point I’d just like to say I thought Anderson played well against Southampton which is encouraging seeing as he was out of position.
@Grognard: Why do we need a poacher now if we didn’t need one in 06/07?
@Grognard: Watch him this season, in pretty much any match. He’s been rubbish and been shown up for being nothing like Schmeichel and he makes awful decisions at times.
Fabianski even got in ahead of him for Poland a few times this season, says enough to me.
You’ve always had that irrational liking about him though.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:07
@Grognard: The dutch league gives you far more space and time in and around the box, so you must be pretty bad to not score many goals. 8/10 of the Dutch defenses are more easy to get between than a dutch hookers legs!!!
Huntelaar was immense in Holland, but we will see how he does in Spain. If he is a flop, you will admit Fergie knows best. If he become grea there too, I think you then have a more solid backgound to you statements about Huntelaar being the unltimate striker. For all we know, he can be a worse goalscorer than Alan Smith!!! Or he can become the next Ronaldo(fat one in his prime). Future will give us all the answers to our questions, which is why I am at the moment believing in everyhting that Sir Alex Ferguson does and decides to do.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:07
@RedDevilEddy: WOW! Mate is that your imitation of the Grognard. That was a long one and I loved it. Good stuff. I agree with most of it. Benzema is still overrated for me but that’s OK, we can disagree on that. I really feel Fergie will have to decide on either Welbeck or Campbell and loan the other one out next season. I honestly do not believe we need to take the money saved on not buying Tevez and spend it on another striker. I am intrigued by Michael Owen as a #3 for us because I honestly feel he would accept the role and not cost a mint to get. Other than him, my preference and shopping list calls for a midfielder in the middle and a goalkeeper. And it’s goodbye to Carlito and his astronomical buy out fee and wage demands. Let him apply those skills for a team like Madrid that will have three or four strikers ahead of him next season. Who are they going to sit down, Raul RVN, Huntelaar, Higauin, or possibly Benzema? It’s off to a team like Atletico or Valencia where he will be replacing a Villa or Aguero I think.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:09
@dan(u-ol): You keep smoking those funny cigarettes their mate. They certainly make you see things the way you want them to be.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:11
Oh and about the goalkeeper issue, I think we have the best goalkeeper in the world in Tomas Kuszczack!
LMFAO, ROFL, whatever you need to see the sarcasm. No, I honestly have faith in Foster. From the few games I saw him play for Watford, plus his game against Derby last March, he looks the real deal. But he is young, inexperienced and always injured. I really admire Akinfeev and Neuer, but Borux really doesnt do it for me. Neuer is my first choice, then Akinfeev and then Frey.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:14
@Conor: First off we don’t need a poacher now unless it’s a striker to be #3 who can come in and be a presence in the box when we are tied late in a game or behind. I am more than happy with Berbatov over a poacher because I know he can be that poacher too. It’s just that Fergie’s system is not allowing him to play deep enough to get enough quality chances on goal.
As for Boruc, every keeper worth his salt in value has bad periods or drops in form. Adler is considered an uber keeeper in Germany yet he blew one against England that made him look like amateur hour. Frankly I have seen Boruc too many times with both Celtic and Poland to call him rubbish as he is the best pure shot stopper I have seen since Oliver Kahn and Schmeichel. No he is not perfect and he is prone to the odd gaff but then so has EVDS as well. It’s the nature of the position. And I am far from irrational.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:16
Gutted for the Clarets, but I concur fully, Spurs in the Final smells tasty! Really looking forward to tomorrows game, don’t you just love being able to see this much football (Burnley being my guilty bonus this season thus far)
Any inclings to a likely starting eleven yet?
Happy Tuesady Chaps n Chapettes
January 6th, 2009 at 23:22
@RedDevilEddy: First off need I remind you and so many others for the unpteenth time that the Dutch League is also the factory that brought us RVN, Bergamp, Overmars, and many other great players. Huntelaar has had it easy in Holland and because of that he scores a goal a game. Two days ago United had a far easier opponent than any Eriedivisie squad and had a hard time scoring goals and making good chances count. So before we criticize Huntelaar for scoring goals against sub par opponents, lets look at our present squad and ask why Berbatov, Rooney and others had such a hard time scoring against a tosser side like Southampton. They were an embarrassment to football and we weren’t that far behind. The mighty Manchester United being held two a goal, a cheap penalty and an offside goal against them. No, I think it’s time to wait and judge Huntelaar on what he does with Real Madrid, where I think he will be a hit, unfortunately.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:23
@Grognard: He-he, you see I have some firepower in me as well.
I just wrote from my heart, and to be honest I didnt expect the comment to be so long. But anyways, I think we should leave that Beznema talk. We know that I am never gonna convince you about how I see him as a player, and you will never change my mind either. 
BTW, lets just say I got a new idea of how to make our strikers score goals. Lets say Fergie all makes them wear Nike Mercurial and Nike Lasers. Fact is, that since the years 2000, every player that has won the English golden boot has worn Nike boots. So has our top scorers. 2001/02: Henry. 02/03: Ruud. 03/04/ and 04/05 and 2005/06: Henry(Changed to Reebok in November 2006). 2006/07: Drogba. 2007/08: Ronaldo. And our top scorers since the year 2002 have been as following: Ruud(02), Ruud(03), Ruud(04), Rooney(05), Ruud(06), Ronaldo/Rooney(07, 23 goals each), Ronaldo(08). I am just stating facts now, and if we shall listen to theory make Berbatov wear Nike boots! And please God, please, make Anderson wear lasers! His boots definatley cant score a goal! lol.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:23
@RedDevilEddy: I’m amazed you don’t rate Adler as high?
January 6th, 2009 at 23:27
@Grognard: Fergie’s system, or Berbatov’s natural instincts? I know which one I think it is…
That’s one mistake from Adler, not countless mistakes over the whole year of 2008. Frankly he’s not the keeper he once was at the start of his Celtic career. You’re not irrational but irrationalities pop up from time to time in everyone, like how highly you once rated Riquelme.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:28
@Shyam: exactly! I was saying that before we even signed him! Everyone says he was bought to lead the line and would make us perfect, well if this is perfect then I want the ‘flawed’ system that people seem to think we had last season. Now instead of having 2 shadow strikers, we have 3. Berbatov doesn’t suit us at all. United have always played good counterattacking football and Berbatov just isn’t suited to that. I still remember the moment in the Chelsea game when he got the ball on the right touchline and he had the last defender in front of him. Instead of running towards goal he decides to basically stop for about 5 seconds and then lose the ball. I was watching on an internet stream and i actually thought the game had stopped for a free kick or something. The reason he looked so good at Spurs was because their whole system was built around his play and they had the 2nd best attack in the country so talk of him playing well at an inferior club is just wrong. He still has his big fish in a small pond mentality and it’s only now that he’s starting to put the work in that he is beginning to look better.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:29
@RedDevilEddy: Not even that Dan, but look at his scoring rate in goals per game this season. So if all he contributes is goals, and then you look at how average his record is this season, it seems a bit odd to tihnk he’d be the right signing for us.
And yes I realise he’s now injured, which ia why I mentioned goals per game.
Huntelaar’s not the right player for our team at all.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:30
@Grognard: I remember those days. When the Dutch league actually had great players! Now the star in the dutch league is… I dunno to be honest. Probably the PSV fella, the youngester which I cant remember his name right now. Van Der Vaart, Huntelaar, Sneijder, Alves, Heitinga, Van der Sar, Drenthe, Van Bommel, Robben, Ruud… Do any of them play in the dutch league? They had a great time some years back. But now all the dutch stars are being sold, and their staus is falling down. They do not have any stars left, and there is no quality left in the whole league. Even OSV, who came to the semis in 2005 are now out of the group against Liverpool, Marseille and Atletico. They barely made the UEFA cup! And I must add soemthing to the Bergkamp, Staam and Overmars stament. “For every Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy or Staam, there is an Alex, Kluivert and Kromkamp.” Cheers mate.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:32
@Grognard: I have not seen him as much as Neuer or Akinfeev, therefor I cant judge him. But from the few games I have seen him, he was been pretty orinary.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:32
@Liam:Berbatov’s work-rate shouldn’t have any effect on how you rate him as a player, he’s a striker for christ’s sake.
And why is it bad theat instead of having two ’shadow strikers’ that won us the double, we now have three? They’re all quality and we now have brilliant depth in quality there.
January 6th, 2009 at 23:56
@Liam: Let me honestly ask you a question. What do you want from a striker? You say we now have three shadow strikers. Three strikers that are not in the box too much. But you want Berbatov to run more.
Doesnt add up for me, sorry. If you want another Ruud, I am sorry to dissapoint you but that is not our style of play. In 2003, when Ruud was at his best, we played with a clean 4-4-2. Beckham and Giggs on the wings, Scholes and Keane in teh middle. It was actually more of a 4-1-2-1-2. Keane sat in front of the defense, with Scholes timing his runs into the opposition box to perfection. We had two real wingers. Or let me not call them winger, but to side midfielders. Beckham crossed whenever he got the opportunity, while Giggs would be the one running at defenders. Ruud and Ole would be in the box most of the time to be on the recieving end of crosses. But that was a time when we actually crossed. Fact is, that until 2006(when Ruud left) 68% of our goals came from crosses. Stats from Opta. We had Ronaldo playing in his not so free-role, more of a sided midfielder. Giggs and Ronaldo both provided crosses, but often Gary Neville and Patrice Evra would join in too. Those days are over mate, forget them! They are as we say, finished! Done! Finito! We dont score more than half of our goals on crosses. You know why? Because back then we had 2 “wingers” that crossed the ball. Now we have a maximum of 1.
When Park plays we know he is not gonna cross. Forget about it! We need Rooney, Evra or Rafael to provide those. Ronaldo wouldnt cross if he had a chance to shoot, which he in some way always see. When Nani plays he crosses. But they sometimes are too late, because he wants to toy with defenders first, or they are too long because he doesnt get the space he wants. When he gets them right, we usually make a chance out of them. Why do you want a tall striker anyway? We dont cross every game, we dont use a target man very often, we usually play on the ground in the middle and around defenses. Not in from the side, but around. Overlapping full back that are practically shooting the ball low and hard just hoping for it to hit a leg and deflect in to the net. You want a target man or a aerial presence? Lets buy Crouch or Køller then!!!
Berbatov has his skills on the ground. He is intelligent in his runs, positioning and finishing. But the problem with him is that he plays too safe. He wants to keep posession, something that really annoys me when we get a counter attack. We lose all of our speed and flair when we counter with Berba, because he turns and walks with the ball if he doesnt have any support. He doesnt try to beat his man, but turns and looks for an alternative. For a club like Man United, that is not the proper thing to do. He has removed an important dimension from our play, which is counter attacking. Expect from the Gibson goal, I cant remember the last time we scored on a counter.
But, he adds a new dimension to our team. And that is very valuable. Something we have missed for years and years. Since Becks, Giggs and Scholes in their prime, we now manage to unlock a shut defense. We create tons of chances with Berba on the field. He can make a turn, a pass, a flick, and we are through on goal. Just finish it off! That is what we dont do. I am pleased with Berba, even if he can be very frustrating at times.
I know you are not a big fan of Berba because of his flaw, which is not in the box too much and not shooting enough. Well, too bad. But remember that no player is perfect! Ronaldo is selfish, Rooney self-less, Anderson cant shoot, Nani cant be consistent, Rio can lose concentration sometimes, Vidic can lose his head, Evra cant cross, Neville, Scholes and Giggs are old… I can go on and on and on and on. You understand what I am saying, and you need to look behind Berbatovs flaws. Do that, and you will see the Magician living behind that depressed dracula-lookalike face.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:06
Well now that Tottenham have got Defoe back I doubt Campbell will get the games he needs to develop. Such a shame we weren’t able to loan him to Hull for this season as he would have got the Premiership experience he needs.
Personally my move would be to buy back Rossi if Tevez goes and then ROTATE to keep our strikers happy. Campbell could use a decent run in the cup games with us which he would have got if he had stayed with us this season. Rossi cannot be more than 15 million and that is fair value in my book as he has matured a lot at Villareal.
Benzema is overpriced. Two 30 million strikers is more than enough we do not need another. If we have that money to throw around it should be used to strengthen our midfield. Ideally a creative midfielder who can give us that bit of creativity in midfield we’ve been lacking.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:37
Benzem’a not overpriced, he’s the best striker at the age of 20 or under with the potential to win the Ballon D’or at least once. He’d be well worth the money.
And yes, I think he’s better than Aguero. I followed him from November last year to November this year through Sopcast links and if a match ever clashed I just recorded it. I never missed a match, and he’s outstandingly good. He’s been even better this season too. 10 goals in 13 league starts, 5 CL goals in 6 starts, and some of them have been things of beauty in the build-up, some have been brilliant pieces of powerful striking play by just running through players and two in particular – volleys, were expert finishes from stupidly difficult angles(in terms of his own body positons).
I can’t praise him highly enough, although he’s still too selfish and doesn’t make the right decisions more often than he should do.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:45
@Conor: I still rate Riquelme highly. Sure he has gotten old and is no longer good enough to play a regular role for a major team but he is quality through and through. Fine you don’t care for him, but don’t devalue his ability just because he’s not your cup of tea. To millions he is a magician and artist with the ball. He certainly doesn’t deserve to knocked when many on this blog built up Park to be something he isn’t which is a footballer.
As for Boruc, Ronaldo hasn’t had a very good year either. Does that mean he is shit and should not be considered world class? Player go through bad periods. I remember a period when Schmeichel couldn’t stop a beach ball. He was so bad Fergie sent him on a holiday. Certainly Schmeichel wasn’t crap now was he? Lets be fair about players and understanding in regards to their being human and being capable of off games or even seasons.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:48
as much as i like Tevez, his goal return.. (despite the importance of most of them) isn’t worth 32million… that said… berba needs to start knocking in a few more. Personally i think i will work itself out and we’ll get him.. if you think about it, its win win, if we buy him he stays great! if he goes it means ferguson has to bring in a new striker and if he has 32 million to play about with its pretty much our pick of the worlds best… but of course welbeck etc and don’t forget campbell.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:50
@RedDevilEddy: Dutch star have always gone to Spain, England or Italy. Holland like the former Yugoslavia is nothing more than a football factory. They produce a lot of great footballers but finances keep them from being able to make them stay in Holland. So Ajax, PSV, Feynoord and others are simple jump gates to stardom. That does not mean that they don’t have great or potentially great players, because they do. Holland has a tremendous development system with many academies for youth to develop. But the days of staying in their country and seeing their teams do well in Europe have left when the van Basten’s, Gullit’s and Kluivert’s left for bigger money and fame. I take any prospective star from Holland seriously.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:52
@RedDevilEddy: Trust me mate, he is far from ordinary. My prediction for Rene Adler is he will be the big signing for Bayern Munich this summer. Michael Rensing is only decent and that is not good enough for Bayern. Adler is too good to be stuck with a middle of the road club like Leverkusen.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:56
@Conor: You are naive if you think that our shadow strikers were the reason for our incredible success last year. Ronaldo was the reason for our success last year and the obvious reason why we aren’t doing as well this year when it comes to goals, even with the addition of a third shadow striker. Take Ronaldo off this team and we would all be singing for our supper.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:57
@Grognard: He is a magician, I’ll not even begin to argue with where the irrationality comes into it though.
That’s a disgraceful thing to say about someone who plays for us Grognard, disgraceful.
He’s always been one to the odd error, it’s not something completely new to his game. And it’s been his form for 12 months, not just a few months.
Adler would be far and away my first choice for a new keeper, and I think we might need one because I can see Foster leaving on a free this summer and TK won’t be someone I’d put my faith in as a first choice keeper, talented as he is.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:58
@RedDevilEddy: Berbatov is a dream. It’s the ordinary extras surrounding him that are causing our team to look so anemic. I of course don’t include our back four or Ronaldo in that. Even though Ronaldo has not been at his best, he is still head over heels the best player out there.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:59
Well don’t worry about the goals guys, cos Little man Nani is going to get them ALL for us, and then you will all have to say that mi man Craig is a great foreteller of the future (NOT).
As for the striker excuses, no way can we say that they have not had chance after chance, and missed the feckin lot. You cannot deny that chances have gone begging like we were in Charity season. Do not blame anyone that we seemeth not as efficient this year so far, as it is only our MAIN strikers who are inefficient, because they left their shooting boots in foreign lands pre season. We have been limp, limp, limp, in the striker department efforts at scoring goals.
January 7th, 2009 at 0:59
@Grognard: But Ronaldo’s still in the team, which makes the idea about complaining about this system silly.
Once he leaves, we’ll need to change our playing style. Berbatov coming in is the first step in that and Scholes and Ronaldo leaving will be the last one.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:00
@Conor: Yes it’s too bad he is a selfish egotistical, moody little cunt who dreams of playing for Real Madrid. Hell he hasn’t played one game for us yet and he already is dead to me.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:02
@Grognard: The ignorance of not mentioning Rooney there is shameful, and Carrick deserves recongition as someone who isn’t an ‘ordinary extra’.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:07
I want our absolute BEST teams out for the Chelsea gane and our two games in hand this month, BECAUSE if we win these games we are well on the way to the finish line for the PL again, and it will be a fantastic boost for our game against Inter in CL. By the way what is Mourinho on about Vidic being banned for that CL game, I thought he was banned because of sending off in WCC match. Has Vidic been reprieved or something?.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:08
@Grognard: Oh I agree, it’s as if he feels he has a divine right to pick whatever team he wants to go to from the best of the best and doesn’t have any sort of morals or loyalty it seems.
Unjustified arrogance at its best/worst.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:10
@Grognard: Grog, who is dead to you, I’m not following your thought – soz
.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:10
@Conor: No, actually Conor what is disgraceful is calling fellow bloggers idiots, absurd, a disgrace and spoilt while elevating your dogma as correct and the only answer. I’ve read your contributions all day and you seem to have a bit of hostility towards some of us who don’t see eye to eye with you. Not a problem but before you call me a disgrace for insulting a player I clearly do not care for, I think you should plan on being a little more respectful towards your fellow bloggers.
What we think and how we feel about players, managers or teams is fair game on this blog….or didn’t you get the memo. So kindly keep your personal snipes to yourself and stick to football. If you don’t agree with my sentiments towards Park, sorry pal, just learn to live with it or tell me why you think I am wrong, not why I am a disgrace. I’m not really sure why this name calling is so necessary for you to make your point. You certainly seem intelligent and articulate enough to make you point or argument without being argumentative or abusive. Try it out, you might learn to like it.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:12
@Conor: I sincerely hope you are not talking about my great mate Ronnie here, because if you are, I know where you both live
.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:14
@Craig Mc: Christ o mighty, Craig is still smoking up cause he now thinks Nani is the goals scoring savior of the team too. You may be full of it sometimes Bro, but you do know how to bring a smile out of me. Thanks for that.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:17
@Craig Mc: I think I’m the only person who likes Ronnie’s arrogance, his personality, but I can’t help it. Her’s naive but I don’t care, I love the lad!
Wew were talking about Benzema.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:18
@Conor: Ohnow we are adding the word shameful are we? Mate you have a serious problem of blowing things way out of proportion and name calling over nothing. Truth be known, Rooney has not elevated his game to the caliber where he gets a free pass from me like Ronaldo. That doesn’t mean he is on my shit list either but to continually call people disgraceful and shameful is just so sensationalist and completely uncalled for. I honestly think you are way out of line and today you have gone way out of you way to insult a few of us here who don’t share your mindset. What’s with that?
January 7th, 2009 at 1:21
@Craig Mc: I was referring to Benzema. If he was to come to play for United the player would be dead to me before he even put on the red kit for the first time. I don’t like his attitude or his personality and he is not what this team needs. He would be a cancer from day one. That boy belongs in Madrid where he can help United more by spreading his poison amongst them exclusively.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:22
@Grognard: Slighlty condescending there Grognard, eh?
If you’re going to give me advice I’d appreciate being told it some other way.
It feels like you’re just unfairly singling me out here, I don’t understand why. Is there a lingering dislike towards me…?
See how the roles can change Grognard, that was me playing the victim there. And you’ve hardly been one to shy away from name-calling, so I think that’s a bit hypocritical.
But yes, I’ll take it all on board and apologies for being overly aggressive etc. Might have something to do with me being a bit pissed, but I don’t intend to absolve myself of any blame through saying that.
And please don’t take this in the wrong way.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:24
@Grognard: Rooney’s been our heartbeat for the past 2 and a half seasons, which should be enough to give him a free pass, never mind the fact he’s played well this season.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:37
@Conor: I’m being condescending?
God give me strength. This morning I woke up and went to the blog and all i could see was you calling Stephen and idiot, spoilt and absurd. He clearly told you he wasn’t appreciative of your name calling but you haven’t refrained. Instead you make your points, of which many are well thought out and valid with a mean spiritedness that I personally find offensive.
Do I dislike you? Of course not mate. I don’t even know you. Whether we agree or disagree on matters pertaining to football should not have anything to do with whether we like each other or not. You can disagree with me all you want but I take exception to the name calling. And I am definitely not a hypocrite and i resent that inference. Anytime I have ever called anyone names, I was baited into doing so. In other words, I never started it. BIG DIFFERENCE. And if you think that I dislike you, it’s probably the other way around. Notice that in my comments to you I never called you a name or reduced your intelligence by insulting it. If you can’t get my meaning here than there is nothing more I can offer you.
The roles don’t change one bit mate. I am no saint but I try to be respectful to others on this site, unless they attack me first. Having said that, I like anybody is prone to the occasional hiccup so I do not tell you this as someone who feels holier than thou. I just noticed that you seem to be having a difficult time today conversing with some of us without name calling or bashing our intelligence. Bloggers are sacred on this site.
Like I said United and all their players are fair game, but bloggers are not. Therefore, you will never have a problem with me as long as you respect me like I respect you. And if you don’t feel that my responses have been respectful, them by all means take them up with Red Ranter. Because I am not trying to make you an enemy, I’m just trying to make you see that you did something wrong. Do you honestly not see that? Unfortunately it is you have taken things the wrong way. Sorry if you feel offended.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:37
@Grognard: O right, I don’t want Benzema either
.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:43
@Conor: I know what it’s like to be in abad mood or just having a bad day and I totally understand and sympathize if that’s what was happening today with you. I do relate, believe me. You are too smart a football supporter to let yourself go down that route in order to make your point. That is not condescending, that;’s stating a fact. I enjoy your take on things even if I don’t always agree with them. And I actually respect your respect towards the team and players and wanting to defend them. Unfortunately, I feel a little too beaten up by life to give them a free ride when I am annoyed. Either way, we are both die hard fans who share one thing in common for sure. We are Manchester United for life, agreed?
January 7th, 2009 at 1:43
@Grognard: It might come across as a cheap dig to you, but that’s how it seemed to me. By all means tell me I’m well off in insulting people, but I personally felt the way you did it was condescending.
The second part was much more meaningful and not in any way condescending, although I resent the idea I dislike you.
Good to see you’re opinionated as ever too.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:44
Not sure if a blog will be written for tomorrow’s game, not sure how many people on this blog give a damn about the League Cup
I certainly do, like i said when we were in the Super Cup and the Club World Cup, every single bit of silver wear in the cabinet is one more step towards greatness and history.
Derby are in disarray but have appointed Nigel Clough as their new manager (not able to manage tomorrow’s game, will watch it from the Director’s Box). Now before we all tune in tomorrow night expecting United to roll over Derby County with a proper mauling let’s all remember that we’re playing against a team who’ve got a new manager and how many thousands of times in the past have United been the first opposition for a new manager and how many of those thousands of times have we been frustrated and unstuck by smaller teams with a spring in their step and more grit and determination to fill the Channel Tunnel?
Now i don’t for one moment expect us to falter against Derby tomorrow, but if we don’t manage to get an early goal, we could be in for a long night. In the end of the day the result of the first leg will be pretty much irrelevant as we’ll batter them back at Old Trafford.
Yet another opportunity to see more from our younger players (and hopefully Fabio will get a run out) under the guidance of a few experienced heads and first teamers.
I would expect a similar team to the Southampton game, perhaps one or two changes with regard to the Chelsea game (Berba dropped in favour of Tevez to keep Berba fresh for Sunday for example)
January 7th, 2009 at 1:45
@Grognard: Hahahahahahaha – and why can’t I live in hope for Little Man Nani Grog? He is going to score more goals for the rest of this season than anyone else
. Well if Fergie lets the lad get on the field that is. I just posted a pair of charmed boots to Nani, and they are MAGIC and can score on their own. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Grog, I am not smokin mi man, I have some vices but filthy habit smoking isn’t one of them, and never has been. I haven’t even had a tot of alcohol either, but I am just recovering from flu, so it could be the after effects of the delirium from the fever 
.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:46
@Conor: That’s true but his inconsistency in goal scoring does get on my nerves and I have a hard time holding back my frustration. I am not a fan of shadow strikers. I like goal scorers. Problem is I go back almost 40 years with my football knowledge and experience and i respect and appreciate the old school striker who lives in the box, sets up camp in the box and who eventually gets married and dies in the box. I am not a fan of strikers who like to go walkabout.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:47
@Nick: I might say I don’t care but I will be watching and recording the match for my collection.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:49
@Craig Mc: Sounds like the stuffed nose hasn’t allowed enough oxygen to reach your head mate. I know you love your lil man Nani and we love you for it too. Hopefully he gets a good workout tomorrow because you know Fergie will piss me off on Sunday and start Park.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:50
@Nick: I already mentione this match a few posts up Nick. I agree that I want us to get to Wembley. According to the Sun (if it is to believed) Tevez was earmarked for the game tonight, but Fergie is reportedly upset with his ongoing remarks to the media about wanting a move to Real Madrid. So the Sun says Fergie is thinking of leaving him out altogether, and playing Welbeck up front on his own, with 5 MF’s behind him.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:52
My personal feeling is that United need games like these to help us gain this rhythm we’ve been lacking. That free-scoring style of last season, it’s almost as if it’s bursting at the seems and the players look like they could break into a killer attack at any second but seem to become dumbfounded the moment a defender blocks their path.
Against lesser opposition like this, potential goal-fests can help boost the confidence of players trying to click into gear. Sure the trophy isn’t as important to everybody as the Premier League or Champions League, but it’s still another piece of silver wear at the end of the day, and if these Cup Distractions can help us to not only blood our younger players, but also to regain our form and rhythm then they can only be a good thing.
Talk of fatigue i think is incorrect when you see the size of our squad and the fact that barely any first teamers will play and the ones that do will no doubt get a rest in the coming weeks to compensate.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:53
@Grognard: Yeah, but what about the magic boots Grog
. I don’t think Nani will play tomorrow, because Fergie said that it would be a different team to the Saints game.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:53
@Conor: Yes I am handful, on that I agree. And if you don’t dislike me I am very happy to hear that. Sometimes negative comments and names can make someone believe otherwise. So let this be an official peace and lets go from here on knowing that whatever we say or disagree on in the future, that none of it is personal. Like I said earlier, I do respect your ideas and hope to debate or agree with you in the future. I for one feel better for airing out our disagreement and finding a way to se eye to eye and move on. Cheers!
January 7th, 2009 at 1:55
@Craig Mc: Actually, I thinkhe only has so much room to change. He certainly does not want to start his big boys and he will only go two or three deep in reserve players. I will be shocked if Nani doesn’t play. Especially since he put in a decent shift last game. And the magic boots are really so gay. THRILLER…….
January 7th, 2009 at 1:55
@Nick: I agree completely with your thoughts Nick – I see it as all good too. Also I like the two games a week thing, it keeps things exciting.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:56
@Craig Mc: Hmmm the idea of Welbeck on his own upfront is…. disconcerting, but it’ll definitely give us a proper look at the young lad and how he handles tough situations. Championship defenders do not give an inch that’s for certain.
As for the Tevez speculation, I’m finding it hard to come up with a proper opinion on it when i see mto be hearing a different “quote” every couple of hours that points in a different direction. Much like the Ronaldo fiasco of the summer, it’s all very confusing, and more annoyingly, very vague (in that way that only the British media can be, bless ‘em!). I hope we keep Tevez and i hope he sorts his problems out with Fergie, but for the time being i’m oing to try not to draw too many conclusions from the tabloids.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:58
@Grognard: Oh I know your take on strikers and I completely understand, people like Gerd Muller are your ideal strikers.
I’ve never seen it that way, and I have absolutely no expectations on our strikers to score a set amount of goals as long as they are involved in spreading the goals around the rest of the team. We did that in 06/07 and some of the football then was magnificent.
Oh and we’re Manchester United for life no doubt. I have the utmost respect for you as a United supporter but even more so for an observer of the game.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:01
@Conor: Conor, I would agree with you that Rooney’s general play has been ok this season, but for a striker he has missed so many sitters mate, and at one stage I wrote to Salford Rugby Club to give him a trial, because he could sure boot those balls into the stands
.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:03
@Nick: What’s disconcerting about that? Personally I think Welbeck’s best role is up front on his own.
I have genuine belief that he’ll make it through, and I’d be over the moon if he did.
His array of talents, rather than having one or two particular ones like Campbell’s speed and finishing, is something that will do a world of good for him. His movement in behind is very good, his hold up play too, he links up play very well for a young striker, he offers a threat in the box and he can beat a man which gives him another threat from running from deep.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:07
@Nick: No Nick, but Tev’s agent has made a press statement to say that he doesn’t know whether Tev will be at OT next season. He says that Real Madrid have made very strong contact for him, and that several other clubs are wanting him. Also it is not the same as Ronnie, because Ronnie never spoke straight really about what was happening, but Tev always speaks out to the media and tells it straight, and trust me he has been speaking out. Whatever Nick, he is no way worth 32 million, and I hope we do not pay anywhere near that. Hope that doesn’t offend you if you really like Tev Nick.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:09
@Craig Mc: Ok sounds very harsh, one commentator even said at the end of November he’s his pick for player of the season so far! Obvoiusly that’s an overstatement, but I think he deserves more credit than he gets.
But yeah, he really needs to get his shooting boots on. He creates so many chances through his brilliant movement it would be a shame not to.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:09
@Conor: Conor, if he is supposed to be playing the lone striker up front, he shouldn’t be coming from deep though, should he Bro?
.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:11
@Conor: O I thought Stevi me me Gerrard was the medias choice of player of the season so far?
January 7th, 2009 at 2:13
@Craig Mc: If a 27 year old Bebatov is worth £31m, a 24 year old Tevez is worth £1m more.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:14
I gotta go to bed now peeps, I’m whacked. Night all
.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:16
@Conor: Haha – yeah Conor, but we all know Berba wasn’t worth that money, we were Dick Turpin – ed
. And we don’t want highway robbery again with Tev. I’m off to bed now mate – night then 
.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:17
@Craig Mc: Bah! The fact that he has the ability to come from deep just shows he’s adaptable. But yeah, it came out wrong there.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:20
@Conor: I thank you for that. And yes you speak from a different school of thought where spreading the wealth around is the new norm in football. It used to be that your two strikers would score 75% of a team’s goals. Now it seems to have dipped to 40% with a lot of teams. But I ask you to take a look at the EPL this season as well as the other leagues where goals are well down on the average. Perhaps this new wave look at distributing the scoring around is not the most successful way to score goals as a team. I somehow feel that football is going through a period of transition as it tries to redefine itself and figure out ways to combat the negative defensive influences that have so paralyzed the sport over the past few years.
Up until this season United seemed immune to the negative aspects, despite not scoring with traditional style strikers. This year the plague that has infected the whole league and the game has infected United too. I pray and hope that Fergie finds us a way out of this maze of despair and we once again return to the attacking and entertaining football we are known for. No matter the scorers are.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:21
@Craig Mc: Lol, no offence at all man, I know his agent has made the statement, but i also heard Kia Jo… Joo…… that guy who owns his rights talk on BBC Radio Five Live earlier this evening about how Tevez wants to stay at United beyond the end of the season and that it’s up to United to pay up. Other people can enquire all they like but nobody can talk to him until his contract with United is up (it’s not like a regular contract whereby players with 6 months on their contract are free to talk to other clubs, from what i understand)
As for whether he’s worth £32m or not? Pssh i’m not a financier If United can afford him, then he’s worth it. At the end of the day, when it comes down to money and players, is anybody ever truly worth that much money?
@Conor: my disconcerted comment is more to do with my hope for a goal fest and generally 1 up front isn’t conducive to that. But i am an eternal optimist much to the annoyance to most other football fans, so if Fergie thinks One Up with Welbeck leading the line will do the job then bring it on, i can’t wait to see how he works out (i too have high hopes for the kid)
January 7th, 2009 at 2:23
@Conor: That’s a good point and a strong observation. He reminds a bit of Darren Bent who was prolific up front and by himself but falls to pieces when partnered with someone else. Although at 17, he still has plenty of room to grow so I wouldn’t pigeonhole him just yet. But I could see us playing a 4-5-1 with him on days when you give Rooney a different role and Berba the day off.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:26
@Conor: Lets face it, the team does not play well at all when Rooney is not in the lineup. Even when he isn’t scoring he is running and passing and contributing by creating space and problems for the opposition. If he only improved his finishing rate by 15% he would be the Balon D’Or winner. But the fact that he does miss so many chances does frustrate greatly. Still, I cannot envisage the team without him.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:28
@Craig Mc: It’s nani time for Craig. Pleasant dreams of counting 1000 Nani’s on the wall. Good night mate.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:30
In my own twisted view of things i’ve always seen Rooney as a long term replacement for Scholes. He’ll never be a deadly striker but his passing is matched only by his vision.
No? just me? i’ll get my coat….
January 7th, 2009 at 4:10
I think this season is going to be a rude awakening once everyone realises what some of us have worked out on here that the success of last season was due to Ronaldo having what may well be the season of his career and providing almost half our goals.
I get the feeling Ronaldo has become a victim of his own success and will be subject to even more cynical fouls than last season which will succeed in limiting his effectiveness. I also feel his freedom is restricted this season and as a player who likes to play the game at lightning speed he must be frustrated by our sluggishness this season
I can foresee Cristiano only getting another ten goals this season, fifteen more at best. Generally teams need 70-80 goals to win the league and as teams are more defensive this season I reckon we could get away with scoring 70 and we are on 30 so far so the question is where are the other forty goals goals going to come from?
People tell me over and over that Berbatov was not bought to score goals. They accept begrudgingly that Rooney for all his attributes is terrible at finishing with the exception of the occasional five game spurts where he scores every game. Tevez got a decent goal haul last season but Ferguson is screwing with him this season and as Tevez was expecting a contract by now he is going to have one eye on the exit door for the rest of the season. I have written off Anderson as a goalscorer, Carrick is only worth a couple, same applies to Fletcher, Park, Nani and the rest. So I think we are going to struggle to make the 70-80 mark and we will look back on this season and say “If only we had scored more goals”
Craig I think Nani has an eye for goal and would be worth 10 a season if he played all the time. But Fergie has messed with his confidence and his shooting this season is really wild because he is trying too hard to make an impact. I miss the bullets of last season.
So I see this season as a transition season in which we struggle with the question of “What do we do when Ronaldo is not getting us out of jail?”
The answer is as a bare minimum our strikers need to score another twenty goals between them. So far they have not even managed ten between them! Which incidentally is only a third of our goals which is below even the 40% figure Grognard has quoted.
So please lets stop talking about our strikers who weren’t bought to buy goals and stop admiring their silky skills and vision and creativity and all that and demand goals from them. And that applies equally to Rooney, Berbatov and Tevez.
January 7th, 2009 at 4:56
@colver: Very well said mate. I have been saying for a long time that this team was headed for as you put it “a rude awakening”. Ronaldo was the team’s life force last season but this season, injuries, poor fitness and a diabolical and cynical attitude by other clubs has limited his effectiveness, played with his confidence as well as his temper. Now Fergie has some real managing to do for a change. Can he turn this team into a well functioning well oiled machine that does not require Ronaldo’s magic to succeed with? I think not. Frankly, we are not good enough. But then you know, I don’t think Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal are good enough either. There has been a major drop off in quality this season with the Big Four. With a little luck and a return of form by Ronaldo, I think the EPL can be had but I honestly see no hope in the Champions League. Not with Barca, Bayern and Inter in our way. I have a bad feeling about things. Perhaps we can get by Inter depending on who bores who to death first. But after that…….who knows?
January 7th, 2009 at 11:36
@Grognard: Thanks for the compliment about my nickname!
Anyway, Tevez can never replace Ronaldo OR Rooney. We all know that they both are better than him.
And i tried adler in fifa 09. He’s A GEM!
January 7th, 2009 at 11:36
Oh my, nearly 7 hours since last comment!
Long time… Well, I care about tonights game and I hope we reach Wembley again. I want us to win a competition that matters at Wembley Stadium for once. We won Charity Shield there in 2007 and 2008, but we lost and FA cup final in 2007. I want us to win tonight, and I hoe that Andy, Tevez and Nani plays. If those 3 play, we are bound to see goals fly in from United.
January 7th, 2009 at 12:04
I agree with the line of thinking that we got the wrong man in the summer (as good as he might be).
Regarding Tevez, I don’t think it is a matter of him not being worth 32m. If Berbatov is worth that, and Rooney 5 years ago was worth that (probably in today’s terms +- 40m), then he sure is worth that money. There was also absolutely nothing wrong with Tevez’ performance until SAF decided to experiment. If the status quo were to be upheld during the summer, I’m pretty sure that his goalscoring would also have increased.
The real question is, is United willing to spend 32m on him (because he definitely is worth it). It does not seem like they are.
If United were to sell Tevez and buy Benzema, it will show complete tactical ignorance from United’s management. Somehow, I doubt the proud United management will ever let that happen. After making an expensive ‘bad’ tactical purchase, they will approach high profile transfers with utmost care in the foreseeable future. If Tevez goes, I doubt anyone will come in as striker. SAF will then have to give Campbell and Welbeck a shot.
January 7th, 2009 at 12:25
I think the fundamental problem with the Tevez situation is that despite us doing well last season, the Tevez/Rooney front pairing isn’t viewed as a viable option by Fergie. Even when they were our only two strikers we had times that Fergie stuck Ronaldo up with Rooney instead of Tevez. For some reason or another, Fergie clearly doesn’t rate that duo as a long term option.
Having accepted that, Tevez cannot play on the wings. Absolutely cannot. I’ve never seen him deliver a decent cross, or put his head up and pick a pass from out wide. He is best with his head down, running at players and shooting. The role of a front man, which is what he is. I personally don’t think he’s all that great of a support striker either, because he doesn’t have great passing range. I think you play him as a fully forward, out and out striker to get the best out of him.
Which isn’t as good as Rooney’s best in the same position. So what do you do? You offer him an amount to be a third striker, which lets face it guarantees about 30-40 games a year with a club like United, and you hope he takes it. If he does, great, five years of a quality player, who to be fair will probably play better once this is sorted.
If he leaves, well you haven’t spunked £25m unecessarily, and for about £10m you have a great chance of bringing in an experienced, happy to sit on the bench, different kind of threat. And you can use the other funds to either pay off some debt or get a young/backup winger. Plus you give Frazier Campbell a chance, keep Welbeck developing. Manucho – well who the hell knows. Must not be great to have not gotten a single look in yet.
Or you can get little Mickey Owen on the cheap. Hell, Ruud’s now superfluous to requirements at Real, if he ever plays again. We’ll never find another Ole, but we can always dream…
January 7th, 2009 at 12:34
I live Carlos and his attitude and commitment is superb, but the real issue is the amount of game time Fergie intends to give him.
If really he is seen by SAF as a Carling cup player/back up striker, which at the moment he is being used as then £32m is absolutly out of the question, it is a ludacrous amount of money.
But if Fergie finds away of playing Tevez into the first team regualar, then pay the money.
Personally it seems we have no intention of forking out that sort of money for the lad, as he really likes the Berba/Rooney combo, which on paper should work, but is stumberling at the present moment.
I agree we need more than two main strikers, Manucho seems to be on his way probably on loan and Welbeck is untried and Campbell hasn’t played enough by Spurs to be classed as a first team player.
Do we let Carlos go and bring in someone else? Or ideally neg the Tevez transfer down to £20m as I have said before I cannot see anyone paying £32m for him in this current climate.
January 7th, 2009 at 12:51
@colver:
‘Where are the goals going to come from?!’ Classic.
Berbatov, Rooney and Tevez are likely to get around ten more each, that’s 60. Nani and Ronaldo are likely to get 15-20 between them, that’s 75-80 goals.
January 7th, 2009 at 12:52
@Stephen: It’s £22m. Forget about the money for the loan.
Tevez is either going to move to us for £22m, or move abroad for £22m. But it’s definitely £22m, not £32m.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:01
Does anyone else think the chances are that Fraizer Campbell might come back this month seeing as spurs just signed Defoe?
He’s now got Defoe, Pavyulchenko and Bent ahead of him with Dos Sants coming back in. He might play in the second leg of the Carling Cup, and he can’t play in the final… he isn’t going to get picked in league as Harry will try and find the best partnership between Defoe and the other 2. The FA cup is over for them too cause they are coming to us this month, and he can’t play anyway. Is he going to get picked in the UEFA Cup? Unlikely.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:10
@Conor: The loan money is still part of the overall transfer package.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:21
@colver: I wish I was a United coach Colver, I would work with Nani day and night, and build his confidence to sych a high, he would think he was wonder Man
. But then you all know that don’t you, but I feel the lad has goals in him, if someone would only tell him. I am going to send Paul McKenna the monies to get Nani a course of hypnotherapy – haha. No rude comments from you all either, I know where you all live 
January 7th, 2009 at 13:27
@Craig Mc: Ha ha probably in the same road as you!
January 7th, 2009 at 13:29
@Grognard: I’m gonna get you Grog for SURE
. If United had 1000 Nani’s – WOW we’d WIN every trophy imaginable.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:40
Right you lot of bloggers, could anyone please try and answer straightforward questions
. Has Vidic been banned for the Milan game, as Mourinho is practically begging FIFA to do?. What a scare-dy cat Mourinho is showing himself to be. He wants Rooney and Vid banned, and Ronaldo too no doubt. F off Mourinho.
Also, why when Woodgate, Bowyer, Thug Barton and others have been banned from playing for England when they are involved in a court case for aggravated assault and bodily harm, is SAINT Gerrard being allowed to get away with it. Sick of hearing professionals supporting this guy, he did somebody with his mates, and should pay for it. I bet the one getting payed will be the victim, who will be payed to say Gerrards part was very small etc.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:48
@Craig Mc: Don’t forget Alan Smith, if you are Steven Gerrard or John Terry you can pretty much do what you like, if your name is Wayne rooney then you can’t, that’s the joy of the FA.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:52
Conor, Im talking English Premier League. We are halfway through the season and Ronaldo has 8 goals, Rooney has 4, Berbatov 3, Tevez 2.
You are now confident that in the second half of the season Rooney, Berba and Tevez will each score ten goals despite only two of them being on the pitch at any given time. Essentially you think the three of them will score three times more goals than they did in the first half of the season. I’d agree with the Ronaldo/Nani prediction (if Fergie actually plays Nani) but Id go with 15 rather than 20.
I wish I shared your confidence mate.
Grognard yeah if we win the EPL it will be a case of the other teams losing it.
Europe is another story. At least in Europe we have the advantage of a solid defence (although Id be reassured if Brown came back as much as I love Rafael, Brown is defensively). If we can keep two clean sheets against Inter then I think we have a chance of sneaking a goal in one of the legs. It will be boring as hell but it would be worth it to get revenge on Jose.
However I think Barcelona will take revenge on us this season, them or Bayern.
January 7th, 2009 at 13:59
Hehe Craig I love ya man. Just had the funniest mental image of 1000 Nanis in the Champions League Final against Barcelonas first X1!
January 7th, 2009 at 14:05
Just taken a long time to catch up on the posts.
Counter attack – implies an attack from the other team. I think that has definitely changed from last season. The Schmeical throw out to the wingers was the start of a counter attack. EDS is most likely to be throwing out after a bleeding back pass with the 11 opposition players in their own half. RDEddy – You’re absolutely right, an early goal completely changes the nature of our matches and we’ve not been getting them.
Can we have a stat on the number of chances versus goals in the corresponding fixtures played so far, substituting the newly promoted for the relegated. We seem to be over-passing rather than shooting so perhaps a shot stat will be enlighteneing. If we’re shooting as often then the blasted barn door syndrome is truly the virus that has infiltrated the camp. Welbeck’s goal stands out, not just because it flew in, but because he had the gonads to try it.
I agree Grog, our young strikers should be 3 + 4 and getting game time. They both (Campbell being one of them) take up good striking positions and their instinct is to shoot or head. The days of having an Ole to sit patiently and wait his chance are over and I’m certain Benzema would not do so. I think he is serious quality but would be a negative influence and the Madrid crap would be always hovering.
Tevez does not offer what either of them do, nor Manucho if the African Nations was an indication of his style. I think he was got on loan until Berba was acquired. I think in Fergie’s mind a loan arrangement gave him a chance to work out his options. There has already been a considerable down payment but what may only have been a stop-gap in his mind then turned out to be a great season.
I don’t think that could have been repeated because so much relied on Ronnie’s goals. He is now building around Berba, Rooney is definitely in his plans and he appears to want a winger in Tosic. Nani should be playing on the right anyway. Far better to naturally go outside to cross with your stronger foot than come inside and cause the forwards to go back and re-time their run( also gives the defence time to regroup.)
Can’t comment on the goalies mentioned as I haven’t seen much of them. Foster has not been given the chance to impress. Loaning out players only works if, having been successful at their adopted club, they then get a chance. I think the reluctance to do so is another indication of Fergie’s increasing conservatism. Foster admittedly has a balsa-like sheen to his skin. Where have we seen that before……..?
Grog, you’re the expert on matters German footy, how do you rate Podolski? He looked perfect for the EPL and Europe, appeared to have a great attitude but hs seems to have been shunted to the left and doesn’t seem properly valued anymore. Has he real pace? I think that adds such a dimension to a forward.
Sorry – prob far too long to read.
January 7th, 2009 at 14:46
Has anybody seen Kun Aguero’s team of 2008 on the UEFA website? He’s named Evra, Rio and Ronaldo in his XI and said some very complimentary stuff about Tevez and SAF, who he’s named as manager of the team. Clearly he admires our club a lot, and who knows, if we lodge a bid for him some time he might just think about it…
January 7th, 2009 at 14:49
@Craig Mc: We all know by now the FA has a special corner for UNited players.. and another different sort of corner for England’s leading lights (Terry and Gerrard)
And I’d like to see Nani start on the right wing tonite.. I hope tonite he doesn’t play as usual with the intelligence of King Julien (from Madagascar)!
January 7th, 2009 at 14:54
@Nino: Do you have the link???
January 7th, 2009 at 16:08
@colver: Yeah Colver Bro, that would be ALL attack, and shite all defending, if we had 1000 Nani’s
. It would be fantastic going forward all the time though, instead of some of the continual HATED backpassing and sideways passing of most of our team at present 
.
January 7th, 2009 at 16:09
@Rahul: Yeah Rahul I know, and it gets on my wick to be honest
.
January 7th, 2009 at 16:12
@Stephen: Isn’t it just Stephen
. Lets go get the FA and duff them up should we 
.
January 7th, 2009 at 17:18
@Nino: He must really Love SAF then. These are his words “I revere Sir Alex Ferguson”. But I dunno why Messi is not in his team. He says that Ronaldo is the best in the world right now and Ibrahimovic comes second. Looks like Messi wasn’t even considered at all. Here’s the link.
http://www.uefa.com/footballeurope/news/kind=2/newsid=790750.html
January 7th, 2009 at 17:20
Any news/dope on the lineups? or the bench? or the weather..
Cuz i’m really bored and I just want the game to start… to see the lovely back passes and the great misses.
January 7th, 2009 at 17:21
@colver: The flip-flaps, summersaults and Michael Jackson-lookalikes would confuse the Barca players to death.
Thriller!!!
January 7th, 2009 at 17:47
@Conor: I wasn’t aware of this until i read it in The Guardian today. Apparently each of the two years of the loan United have paid £5m to MSI, meaning that at the end of this season he’ll cost us only £22m, which is still a lot of money, but not nearly as bad as i first thought.
January 7th, 2009 at 17:59
@Karl: The thing that management seems to ignore is that if they let Tevez go, they seem to think they can sign a Benzema who will not come to OT and accept the role of #3 striker. I can at least say that Carlito’s only gripe with the team is them not offering him a new contract. That means he accepts his role and is willing to fight for a place on the squad so long as he is paid. That is one major hurdle that has been climbed. Finding a player who would accept the Ole Gunnar Solksjaer role. But United want their cake and eat too. They want Benzema or God knows who else and they expect them to accept a seat on the bench as willingly as Tevez has. Naive and stupid to say the least.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:06
@Craig Mc: Just make sure the GF is nowhere near the two of you or this love triangle will explode in your face.
Finally, after all these years Craig has figured out his goal in life. Personal trainer and life coach to Nani. I love it.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:09
@Craig Mc: That’s Mourinho working his mind games magic. Nobody does it better mate. He pisses you off and then after the game throws sweet nothings and praise your way. He’s special.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:19
@colver: I have to agree with you on Conor’s quite optimistic predictions. This is the bloody EPL and nobody is scoring goals this year. I expect 10 from Ronaldo, 3 from Nani, 7 from Rooney, 5 from Berbatov and 4 from Tevez. That is a total of 29 more goals from that group. Lets add another 5 from the rest of the team and you end up with 64 give or take five goals. That’s a significant reduction from last year and I dare say that I may be actually expecting them to score more than they will. None of the players have actually matched those numbers in the first half. There is always the possibility they could go south rather than improve on their existing numbers. For example, if Tevez gets benched more often and Nani just doesn’t score in his few opportunities, that tally could reduce by around 5 goals. Berbatov has only scored three up to now. What if he was to only add another 3 or maybe 4 for the second half. I doubt it but the tally could end up between 55 to 60 as opposed to over 60. It’s really a tough one to predict but the one optimistic element is that the top nine teams from last season will be playing us at OT in the second half. That will hurt our goals for at OT but our goals on the road should improve. But then again, if teams continue to park the bus on the road and at home against us, it could end up being one United’s most frustrating seasons ever when it comes to goals scored based on the clubs potential.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:37
@the three Rs: I agree with you on your view their Triple R. As for Podolski, he is a bit of an enigma at times but there is a super talent just dying to get his chance to showcase his skills. Truthfully, Bayern have done wrong by him. All one needs to do is look at his numbers at Cologne and especially the German National team to realize that Bayern made a major error with him. It started under Hitzfeld when Bayern was playing a slow plodding Italian style buildup and attack game which did not serve Poldy well and where there wasn’t a defined role for him. The acquisition of both Luca Toni and Miro Klose was a real slap in the young man’s face. Did Bayern need both of them? No but for whatever reason, they went for both who were world class strikers and not about to sit on the bench. Poldy got screwed over at Bayern but still scored at a prolific rate for Germany.
Then this season Klinsmann shows up and Poldy starts to feel good about himself again because it was Klinsmann who gave him the chance to play for Germany and who showed so much confidence in him. But I believe the politics at Bayern told Klinsy to play Toni and Klose because they were experienced and cost so much. Once again Poldy gets relegated to the bench despite playing well when he has gotten the chance and having scored some cracker goals.
Podolski needs to go to a team where he will be the #1 or #2 striker. Playing him on the left side is fine because he has the speed, the dribbling skills and crossing skills of a winger but he also has the finishing skills of a striker. His heading has improved greatly and his left foot is just lethal. One of the hardest shots in the game as well, he has really shown me situations where he has finesse and touch too. I personally think he is a great player but his only knock is that he is similar to Rooney as he is not an ideal target man striker who can play with his back to the goal and who commands the box. His best comes from outside th box and he likes to approach the box like Rooney. The difference is he is more aggressive about scoring and has a true cannon shot with accuracy from as far as 25 yards out. I have also seen him score some nice goals with his weaker right foot. Right now he is wasting his vast potential sitting on Bayern’s bench but next year he is as good as gone and Bayern know this. That is why they signed Hamburg’s Ivaca Olic to replace him next season. As far as I am concerned, Bayern blew it big time as this guy was their future at forward but all they could see was the present and playing two guys around 30 years old for the short term. Very unlike Bayern to waste a talent like this.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:51
@Nino: Aguero has long been known to be a Manchester United supporter. So what does this mean for United? Absolutley nothing. Truthfully, one of my pet peeves in sports and even in movies and television is when a player or actor confesses his love for a team or role and shows his commitment and passion for it and then what happens? The role or position goes to someone undeserving who cares nothing for the show or the team. It just drives me crazy when managers do not appreciate or admire a players devotion or love for a team and their desire to play for that team. I’m not talking about players who are unworthy of wearing the red of Man Utd. I am talking about players like Kun Aguero and Rene Adler who are both young and world class and who have come out of the closet to showcase their love and desire for the club.
But that’s not good enough for Fergie. No, our wise gaffer prefers to covet a punk and piece of trash like Karim Benzema who is a moody, sulky egotistical, selfish prick who has shown that kind of devotion and love for another, that being Real Madrid. So what does that mean? For me it means that Fergie isn’t looking to better the team and keep it happy and harmonious. No, he wants to bring in a player who has the potential to disrupt everything only for one reason. To stick it to Real Madrid. So help me, I will go postal if Benzema ever comes to United. I hate the prick with a passion. When I think of class players like Aguero and Adler consistently getting the ignorant shaft, while being players we could really benefit by having, it makes me physically ill. Huntelaar wanted United too. I guess that’s one that Real got over on us. Time will tell whether Berbatov was the wiser choice over the hunter. As for Aguero and Adler, I am convinced they will never be United players while Ferguson is still here, and while the Glazer’s own the team. Frankly, I doubt whether we can afford them.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:52
They should just change the name of this site to Grognard Rants.
January 7th, 2009 at 18:58
@Patrick: No, if they called it that you would banned for being a prick.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:01
@Grognard: buying berbatov over huntelaar will always be the wiser decision until huntelaar comes to the premier league. im sorry grognard, the reason that managers are reluctant to buy from the dutch league is because in recent history, all the prolific players from holland have been major, major flops. please dont go and start listing all the great players to come from holland and play in england because that was in a different time and in the present, prolific dutch players do not necessarily make them prolific in all leagues.
kezman
kuyt
alves
babel
are the most recent to make the trip, out of that list only babel has a chance of making it in the united team.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:11
@Grognard: That was a nice comeback!!!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:13
@Grognard: c’mon grognard patrick was only joking! you literally had a go at conor a several hours ago for doing the exact same thing!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:14
@Rahul: Thanks mate. That troll really bugs the Hell out of me because all he does is come on and try to piss me off. And it always works because I have a tendency to not tolerate scumbags.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:15
@Grognard: I don’t think Aguero will be a case of affordability here Grog. It’s never about affordability when Fergie wants someone. The problem here is that Fergie wants not Aguero.. but that slut Benzema. We want not the slut Benzema, but the brilliant Aguero!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:22
@dan(u-ol): Dan, Conor and I are fine and we made our peace. Patrick the Troll only showed up last month when RR was away and all he did was insult me and bait me. He has never offered an ounce of footballing wisdom or ideas to this site. He’s just an angry repressed punk that has issues with people who challenge his limited intellect. So kindly stay out of it because I have no beef with you.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:24
I really rate Podolski, but he’d just be another Tevez for us. Either be shunted out of position or a #3. Doesn’t exactly solve his problem.
If were City I’d leap at him, can’t understand why he hasn’t been offered what money is needed to change his mind. Guess it’s a bit of a step back.
If we do get rid of Tevez, I don’t think we should be searching for a ‘prospect’, we should be after a calm, experienced head. I really wanted us to get Gudjohnsen a few years ago, someone like that would be ideal.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:26
@RedDevilEddy: Thriller indeed!! Also equivalent of a 1000 King Juliens! Laugh riot!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:26
@dan(u-ol): Why is it I knew as soon as I would bring up Huntelaar’s name, you would chime in with your anti Huntelaar sentiment. Fine Dan, I get it, you don’t like him. So why go on about it? Lets just agree to disagree on that player. I see nothing gained by constantly arguing over his worth. You are not changing my mind and I won’t change yours. Lets agree that we both like Berbatov and move on.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:29
@dan(u-ol): And Conor did not do the same thing. He is a regular contributor that was basically having a bad day and took his frustrations out a bit. Patprick is nothing more than a blog troll who surfs around and reads comments and then decides he wants to chime in with his little bit of poison. Go back three weeks and check out his first appearance on this blog before you come down on me for defending myself. I expect more from you mate.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:30
Grog, Thanks mate on the Poldy info. It’s what I thought had happened. I was expecting big things of Klose in the Euros but he seems to have gone backwards whereas Podolski looked generally threatening, even in a position we both think he is slightly wasted in.
Agree with you on Kun and Adler regarding Fergie’s reticence. Hope the suggested argy bargy with the Argy doesn’t put off fellow countrymen. He has a bit of previous with Heinze does he not?
Whilst it is going to have its traumatic elements, I have a sense of excitement too about a new boss coming in to work with our players, buy one or two more and be tactically inventive and versatile.
That is not meant in any way as an insult to his great years at the helm, more a recognition of the need to keep fresh. Interesting that the last of his old guard are nearing their end too. Here’s to an awesome swansong of a season. It’s not appeared that way but we’re sitting threateningly on the shoulders in every competition.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:35
@Rahul: I agree that we want Aguero much more than the Slut Benzema but I am not so sure of our ability to afford either to be honest. I have read some disturbing things in the US sports media about the Glazer Empire crumbling at the seams. They already were in massive debt but since the economic crunch of three or four months ago, they have taken a severe hit. Hell Abramovich isn’t buying players now due to his losses, can you imagine how the Glazer’s feel having 1/50 the net worth of Big Roman? There is no way this team can afford 40 million to buy either player. It’s a pipe dream. Aguero would be nice although i have to ask in all honesty, do we need him. He is too good to be a #3 striker and who sits down if he starts? I can’t see the sanity in sitting Berba or Rooney.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:38
@Beachryan: Truthfully, City would be scary if Podolski and Robinho played up front with their speed, shots and width. Hopefully he won’t go to City. I have a funny feeling when all is said and done, Italy and probably Juventus will be his final destination. Cologne want him back but they clearly don’t have the money to buy him or pay him.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:39
I hope we can see fabio today!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:39
@Grognard: thats not true you know, i like huntelaar he seems like a good person and player. i would just have my doubts about him as a player because of recent history. i would accept him though unlike other people who when they dont like a player or dont think the player should be at united, who make sure the player does no right.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:42
@Beachryan: The player I’d love us to get is Ibisevic from Hoffenheim. 18 goals in 17 games played in the first half of the Bundesliga. An in the box striker with a prolific goal rate and the ability to turn on a dime, head the ball and take advantage of half chances in congested situations. Sure he is a star right now with Hoffenheim, but i think a player like that would welcome a #3 spot for a team like United.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:44
@Grognard: I was talking in reference to 30+mil for Berbatov and the 17mil just paid for the Serbs. I dunno much about the Glazers’ losses in the economic landslide.. but I’ll take ur word for it. And that frightens me quite a bit.. cuz good economy or otherwise.. when Fergie leaves… the next one (manager) isn’t gonna get the 50 odd million a year to spend on whoever he likes. Long term, our affordability looks discouraging either ways. Hopefully the 2 serbs will prove a great investment by then alongwith Anderson, the twins, Possebon and… Nani
January 7th, 2009 at 19:46
@Grognard: Poldy is my most wished striker buy ever! If you remember back in June, I had told you my feeling about Podolski. Too bad he is doing bad for Bayern(on the bench
), but Im happy with what he does for Germany. I dont wanna see him at Shitty though, that would be a nightmare. I believe that if he came to United, as a striker or left winger, he would be brilliant. Just too bad Fergie doesnt like Germans…
January 7th, 2009 at 19:49
@the three Rs: Truthfully, with all my negative comments of late towards Fergie, I dread the day he packs it in for good. Make no mistake, even with his stubbornness and questionable moves of late, he is the glue that keeps this team together and functioning at a high level. Once he leaves I worry because his successor will fold due to the pressure he will be under and I still have serious issues and concerns over this team’s current ownership. If the team were sold to a wealthy Arab consortium and Jose Mourinho takes over from Fergie, then and only then would I feel more secure about the club’s near future. I may bash him and criticize him but I love Fergie and i never want to see him retire. Even if in moments of frustration I call for his sacking. I love him like a Dad. But then I fought with my Dad all the time.
January 7th, 2009 at 19:59
@dan(u-ol): Dan, you seriously have me confused mate. For over a year I have read your anti Huntelaar statements and the fact that you constantly put down the Eridivisie despite the fact that in it’s history it has probably developed as many world class stars as either Germany, Italy or Argentina. Brazil would be the one above them. I honestly don’t know hat you plan to gain by constantly bringing up names like Kuyt, Alvez and Kezman for as they are not true indications of how great a football factory Holland is. How about Cruyff, Haan, Neeskens, Gullit, van Basten, Riijkard, Kluivert, Bergamp, Overmars, Davids, Seedorf, EVDS, RVN, Romario and Ronaldo etc. It’s amazing how the greats don’t count with you but you bring up the failures do defend your position. Also, you keep on bringing up the recent past with Huntelaar as if he has done something terrible or not performed. What’s with that? The man has averaged a goal a game for Ajax in his career and for his team before that. He also has a strong goal scoring record for Holland despite having to wait for his chance behind the legend RVN. What more convincing do you need? Does it mean nothing that a team coveting Ronaldo
You can’t fool me on that one.
would make him their next big signing? And yet you say you like him? Come on mate!
January 7th, 2009 at 19:59
@Grognard: Grog, although I disapprove of what Patrick has said, not that I am anybody to approve or disapprove, I remember you praising him for his footballing wisdom sometime ago. Both of you gentlemen have a lot to offer to this site in terms of footballing knowledge.
@everyoneelse : Any links for tonight?
January 7th, 2009 at 20:03
@Rahul: This is why you see the team buying so many young prospects. Nani, Anderson, Tosic, Ljajic, Possebon, the Twins etc. The team is trying to build the Arsenal way because the Man City’s and Chelsea’s of the league as well as the Madrid’s, Barca’s and Milan’s of the world will constantly be able to outbid the team for the big stars. No longer will the lure to play for an Alex Ferguson run team be as high for foreign players. Therefore, the solution is to nab them when it’s early and hope the pan out. You are right, the days of 50 million pound transfer kitty’s is a thing of the past.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:07
@Grognard: Funny you posted about an Arab takeover and Jose Mourinho becoming manager.. cuz that’s exactly what I was dreaming of when writing my last post!!!!
January 7th, 2009 at 20:09
Ok.. I’m gonna go and see which channel is showing the match!! and then off to sleep.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:10
@RedDevilEddy: Actually he doesn’t do bad at Bayern when he gets to play. The problem is a numbers game and Klinsmann is frustrated that he can’t find more playing time for him due to the large contracts of both Toni and Klose. At the beginning of the season he was playing more because Toni was hurt and because Klose was in bad form. Then all of a sudden Toni returns and Klose caught fire and back on the bench Poldy goes. And when the odd cup opportunity came up for him to play, all of a sudden Poldy came down with an injury. It’s more bad luck rather than not playing well enough. In fact he has scored a couple of goals this season that were just breathtaking for Bayern. And furthermore, his options at LW are also limited because guess who patrols that side? Franck Ribery. Poldy can’t win at Bayern. I personally think the best team for him and his style would be Werder Bremen, Arsenal or Atletico Madrid if Kun Aguero leaves. Italy would be poison for him as he responds best to teams that move the ball quickly and use their quick passing and speed to destroy the opposition.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:10
Team news?
January 7th, 2009 at 20:12
GK: Kuszczak
Def: Rafael, Vidic, Evans, O’Shea
Mid: Anderson, Scholes, Gibson, Nani
Fwd: Tevez, Welbeck
January 7th, 2009 at 20:14
@dan(u-ol): Good team, but I think it will be a 4-3-3 with Tevez in the middle and Nani and Welbeck on the wings, with Gibson, Anderson and Scholes in the middle. United to win 2-0.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:14
@UnitedUnited: Patrick is not a regular contributor on this blog mate. Anytime he has ever shown up, it has been to cause trouble RealDevilEddy and others even came to my defense the last time he showed up and told him what they thought of his rudeness and lack of offering any football insight. And if I ever praised him it was to try to make peace with him so that we could indeed talk football. He wasn’t interested in that. Insulting and calling people names is not what this blog is about. I hate when I am forced to retaliate because it’s against my nature, but I am not one to take an insult sitting down. Sorry if that offends you. That certainly was not my intention in defending myself.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:14
@Rahul:
I’d personally like to see O’Neill given a shot after Fergie decides to call it quits. I think he’s an excellent manager and one of the few that could be with us for the long term. Whoever takes over will need to be given some time though. Fergie is a tough act to follow. One of my biggest annoyances with football is the musical chairs game with managers that gts going every now and then. Players are only allowed to move during certain periods, so should managers. Hopefully Villa crack the top four this season so he can get a taste of top flight European football.
On another note, anyone got news about the line-up?
January 7th, 2009 at 20:15
Kuszczak
Rafael, Vidic, Evans, O’Shea
Anderson, Scholes, Gibson,
Tevez, Welbeck, Nani
just in from talkSPORT
rooney, ronaldo, giggs, carrick on the bench
January 7th, 2009 at 20:15
Team:
Kuszczeck
Rafael, Vidic, Evans, O’Shea
Gibson, Anderson, Scholes
Tevez Welbeck, Nani
January 7th, 2009 at 20:16
@Rahul: I read your mind.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:16
@Traverse: Damn, got there first
January 7th, 2009 at 20:17
@Grognard: yoou have just done exactly what i thought you would do. bring up players from a different time instead of RECENT history. you tell me what world class player from holland has come to england and reach the heights of those players in RECENT history? NONE! thats who. quite frankly, i dont give 2 houts about the players you have listed, because none of them can play presently. i care about the players playing in the dutch league NOW.
i’ll put it like this
past dutch league=GREAT
present dutch league=HORRIBLE
your telling me huntelaar averaged a goal a game for ajax, didnt alves score something like 120 in 100 appearances in the dutch league? it does NOT matter about the past players, you cant use them as an excuse for the shite the dutch league is producing now.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:18
@dan(u-ol): I’m not sure about that midfield because Nani is our only true wide player. This would have been a good time to throw in Tosic. The fact Park is not in there or Fletcher means they start vs Chelsea. Oh Yea!
January 7th, 2009 at 20:22
@Grognard: and park
January 7th, 2009 at 20:22
@YDR: I totally agree with you mate. What he has done witha very small team at Villa has been outstanding. Yes they are predominantly English but the lack of depth on the squad would have caused other managers fits. O’Neill has managed to get by and move the team into the Big 4. And yes, if we hired him and he was successful, he would stay for the long haul and not be seduced by any other job out there. My only concern with him is he has no success managing his teams in Europe. Then again he has never had the talent to call upon like Fergie has had.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:26
@Grognard: After all these years????, Grog I’m all of 24 years young, hardly a lot of years yet
.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:28
i fear im recieving the wrath off grognard as we speal…
January 7th, 2009 at 20:30
Oh and Grog, my GF is more obsessed with nobbling me me because of my LOVE for the gorgeous ‘Lush Puppy’ of girls aloud, Miss too Delicious Kimberley Walsh
. So what can one do?. I mean how can someone be jealous over a myth?.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:31
@dan(u-ol): That’s the problem with you Dan my boy. You don’t respect history and you don’t respect the Dutch for their continual history of producing fine footballers. Who by the way all get their start in the Eridivisie. If you recall the past Euros, just 4 months ago produced and exciting and highly entertaining Dutch side that with some luck could have won the whole thing. Also, their under 21 side won the Euros. So I don’t think I live in the past. The Sneijder’s, van der Vaarts, RVN’s etc may not be playing in Holland anymore, but that’s because Holland can’t afford to keep it’s best. And Huntelaar is one of their best. You consistnetly show no respect or regard for the fact that my argument makes sense and has soemthing to stand on. Yours on the other hand is weak and based on the players who have failed, of whom most of them aren’t even Dutch. Give it a rest mate, you lose. You don’t win this debate no matter how you may think you do. You brought a knife to a gunfight. And further more, Babbel is a great player that isn’t being used correctly at Liverpool and Kuyt is a far better player than JS Park will ever be and with the same strong work ethic. Don’t put doesn’t a country that has always produced world class players and still does. Respectfully, this is a tired and pointless argument you make mate. Give it a rest.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:33
@Craig Mc: A slight exaggeration then mate.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:34
@dan(u-ol): It’s not wrath mate. I’m just debating with you and trying to make my point. I have lots of love for you, trust me.
But I’m also right. 
January 7th, 2009 at 20:35
Any links to the game?
January 7th, 2009 at 20:36
@Craig Mc: Just tell her she has nothing to worry about from Kimberly because your true love is Lil Man Nani and he’s already taken by somebody better looking than you.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:41
@Grognard: i respect history, but when it comes to signing a player only recent history counts, no more no less.
January 7th, 2009 at 20:43
@Grognard: im right you re wrong, im big you’re canadian
January 7th, 2009 at 20:49
@dan(u-ol): Again that makes no sense because recent history has brought us Sneijder, RVN, van der Vaart, Engelaar etc. And recent history has one if not the biggest team on the planet just buy Huntelaar to add to their already large DUTCH contingent. You think they may know something you don’t?
January 7th, 2009 at 20:51
Ive always wanted to know, what does PIG stand for? (In relation to Tomaz)
January 7th, 2009 at 20:52
@dan(u-ol): Dan, you’re big? As big as me. I’m 6′5″ tall and weigh over 300 pounds. I used to play the defensive line in my university US style football team. I seriously doubt you are that big. And being Canadian, well that’s a badge I wear with great pride thanks.
January 7th, 2009 at 21:01
A good report on really whos Fabio??/ Fabio report
January 7th, 2009 at 21:14
tevez looks lost
January 7th, 2009 at 21:18
Oh Come ON!
January 7th, 2009 at 21:18
Oh Come ON!
January 7th, 2009 at 21:21
scholes looks lost too
January 7th, 2009 at 21:22
Rahul: You’re worried about Nani, but not about Rodrigo?
He’s been ridiculously overhyped and he’s been rubbish for the reserves recently, which says it all.
January 7th, 2009 at 21:24
We’ve had more of the ball, but we’ve also been shite. Come On Tevez!
January 7th, 2009 at 21:25
@Grognard: Fletcher’s our best big game player, and has been for the last two seasons in the Premier League.
January 7th, 2009 at 21:26
working link anyone?
January 7th, 2009 at 21:29
@bildani: http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/wed7.1/Derby_ManU.html@<a
@ROOOOONEY: Everyone looks lost
January 7th, 2009 at 21:30
@bildani: If you have sopcast sorry
January 7th, 2009 at 21:33
i dunno about everyone , i thought anderson is playing well
and nani just annoys me
January 7th, 2009 at 21:36
Just when you think it cant possibly get any worse, it does. What I saw was a United team being outmuscled, outpassed and generally outplayed by Derby. The players look lost, noone seems to have any idea of what they are supposed to do. No energy whatsoever and no concentration. That must have been the worst ever 45 minutes by a United team in terms of passing accuracy in the past few years……
January 7th, 2009 at 21:36
well that was poor
, i learnt a few things about united though.
carrick, not scholes is the heart of our team.
nani, better then park
also, tevez has only done himself in further, with his performance. £32mil for that? heck NO!
January 7th, 2009 at 21:38
Scholes and Anderson in the middle….when will Fergie learn?…we would have more success with Gibson playing in the middle…poor use of all that possession
January 7th, 2009 at 21:40
Good goal by them, United are doing dreadfully though.
I said earlier in this blog that teams with new managers always raise their game against United! I wish i was wrong
Stick on Ronaldo and Rooney if nothings changed by the 55 / 60 minute mark and tell them to show the youngsters how it’s done.
Scholes have been okay, Anderson probably our best players. The whole back four has been sketchy at best. Gibson has been underused and whenever he has put balls into the box they’ve always been quality (compared to Nani’s), but nobody has got on the end of them (as usual!)
January 7th, 2009 at 21:40
we have all known anderson and scholes cant play together, why cant rudolph see this?
January 7th, 2009 at 21:42
This is embarassing. Gibson as a right winger. Really? Seriously?
At least Nani is trying to do something. Scholes looks like he wants to be someone else, maybe wherever he left his ability. Shocking stuff. Anderson is all huff and puff and terrible through balls to the opposition keeper. Tevez appears to still be in Argentina, and Welbeck is playing like a 17 year old. Fair enough.
And as quality a strike as it was, you can’t say they didn’t deserve it. Dominating chances, looking more up for it…fair play to Derby. Fergie has to show me something at half time.
January 7th, 2009 at 21:43
There’s only one thing for it;
The Fergie hairdryer treatment.
These lads f*****g deserve it
January 7th, 2009 at 21:44
Welbeck, Tevez, Ando and Gibson looked underwhelming. Our defence was doing its job, Evans particularly has been good, but our mifdfield at times was overrun. Nani nonetheless was very much involved, which can’t be said to most of our non-defenders.
Oh, and once again Pig doesn’t look comfortable.
January 7th, 2009 at 21:47
@bildani:
http://redlog.pl/2009/01/07/wideo-z-meczu-derby-county-manchester-united/
The ustream one works for me (pw: 1500), not great quality but watchable and not choppy.
@Grognard:
I think O’Neill did ok with Celtic, I could be wrong but I think he got them to the UEFA cup final a few years back. Still, it would probably take him some time to get it right in the CL, the PL and FA cup shouldn’t be a problem though. I think the style of football he demands from his teams would fit in with United’s general football philosophy, something I think wouldn’t be the case with Mourinho (as great as he is tactically).
As for the game… well, I only came in right before the Derby goal, so I’ll keep my mouth shut until full time..
January 7th, 2009 at 21:49
@Beachryan: well they deserve it as much as scholes deserved to hit one of his long shots from outside the box.
they look to be defending with 8 then moving just past halfway and blasting a shot they are still derby and evryone and their little brother scored against them last year. why cant our little brothers hit something?
January 7th, 2009 at 22:02
@ROOOOONEY: How the feck can you say Nani annoys you. Are you blind mate or biased. He put O’Shea thru one and one, he put someone else thru one and one, he got his corners into the middle of the box, too bloody poor that no United player could get anywhere near them. I don’t mind Nani criticism when justified, but not when it isn’t.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:03
What the f**k is going on!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:07
Blaring signal to all: We’re just shite without Roon and Ron. Well, they’re comin on now, so let’s see if they make a difference.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:07
Finally! Now lets f*****g kill these bastards!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:11
I don’t remember Nani giving any good corners…what I remember is two pathetic ones in quick succession in the second half…
January 7th, 2009 at 22:13
Craig plz this match marks the end of nani , where is he in the 2nd half
January 7th, 2009 at 22:14
Anyone who thinks Tev is worth 32 million, think again. And all you Berba haters think again as well, the difference between his precise passing and putting players thru on Saturday and tonights players is MILES.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:15
we are getting carved up in mid field by DERBY
January 7th, 2009 at 22:20
yea great call take off the only midfielder that has touched the ball all half
January 7th, 2009 at 22:22
pleeeeeeeaaaaassee put this away Ronaldo!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:28
After this Im gonna drink something pretty strong.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:28
wow tevez really isnt helping ” i want to stay case “
January 7th, 2009 at 22:30
Tomorrows gonna be a nightmare.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:31
Well this is quite funny. we are making Derby county look like AC Milan
January 7th, 2009 at 22:31
Ger the ball on target for f***s sake!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:36
what is wrong with us we suck soooo bad
January 7th, 2009 at 22:37
meh , i would be angry if this was a knock out we still have a 2nd leg which i dont think we will lose
January 7th, 2009 at 22:39
@antsBoy: Well open your feckin eyes then!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:40
@ROOOOONEY: r u sure its a 2 legged thingy?
January 7th, 2009 at 22:41
@ROOOOONEY: Where the feckin hell was everyone else in the whole game. But if it makes you happy to blame Nani just feckin enjoy yourself.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:42
yea the 2nd leg is in two weeks at home , and sorry craig i do like to blame nani even if he plays well!
January 7th, 2009 at 22:43
@t_reason: yes
January 7th, 2009 at 22:43
That was 2 hours of my life I’ll never get back…….Man we suck so bad, I wish we could at least go back to the 1-0 run…..
January 7th, 2009 at 22:44
The worst performance of the season for me, considering the opposition, which played good. I don’t know what else to say, just out of words…
January 7th, 2009 at 22:44
We played like we didn’t need to win. Which I hate to see, but is true. Several initial thoughts:
1. That was the single worst performance I’ve ever seen from Paul Scholes.
2. Darren Gibson was utter tosh on the wing, Fergie got that massively wrong.
3. Once the pitch froze we were never going to have a chance keeping it on the ground. At around the 60th minute someone should have said to the boys, alright, move O’Shea up, pull Tevez to left back and start hoofing. Because that’s the only thing that’s going to work at places like that.
4. We have no plan b, for all that money spent. Anyone could see that a 442 with no strength in the middle suited Derby to a T, which is because a: OShea can’t overlap and b: Gibson isn’t a winger. So we were essentially a team set up to give it away.
5. Ronaldo is so much better than our other wingers its embarassing.
6. Gibson and Carrick look exactly the same on my tv. At the end there when they were both in the middle I had absolutely no idea which was which.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:44
Everyone who wants to make Nani the scapegoat, what about Scholesy and his romance with shooting into the stands, Tevez who was fucking poor to say the least, Gibson, if he is United class I’m a dutchman. O’Shea and the idiot we had in goal. Am I wrong that we always concede a goal when he is between the sticks. Need I go on, I BLAME THE FECKIN LOT OF THEM, not one man.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:46
@Craig Mc: Sorry if you don’t like what you see, but everyone sucked today…Vidic was perhaps the saving grace. That includes LMN as well. He wasn’t the worst out there..maybe one of the better ones, but they all still SUCKED.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:48
@Beachryan: Beechy I feckin love you mate, the only one who didn’t make Nani the scapegoat. He gave us two golden opportunites to score when he put players thru one on one in the first half, so blame the tossers who messed up their shots. I’m pissed big time with some of you lot.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:48
@Craig Mc: I agree with you we were pure SHITE. I expect the polar opposite of this when those sheepshaggers come to Old Trafford. It had better, Im gonna be there. Now, for that drink.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@antsBoy: Okay, so why the feck didn’t you say everyone was fucking useless, instead of picking on Nani?.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:52
@edwin: Thank you Edwin, someone gracious enough to tell it like it is – EVERYONE of our lot should be ashamed of letting a team of sheep shearers beat them. No feckin idea.
By the way, I don’t blame Welbeck, because he did not have Berba finding the openings for him that he had to exploit on Sunday.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:53
@Craig Mc: Read my statement again, I never picked on him. I didn’t say he was the worst out there. I just corrected your one sentence with regard to Nani.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:53
We got owned… BY DERBY!!!
I mean, Derby owned us with Anderson, Vidic, Tevez, Nani, Scholes, Rafael, Evans, Rooney and Ronaldo on the field! What the fuck was going on there?! I dunno what the fuck Tevez was doing tonight, he looked like he was still in Buenos Aires. And Rafael, oh Rafael! Did he do at least one thing correct tonight?! Please tell me he did, because I luv the lad, but unfortunately I cant remember anything positive by him. Ronaldo was okey, Rooney at least showed some will to score a goal, Anderson had good attacking visions but movement was poor. What the fuck is Tevez running into Anderson for when you know he wants us to score and plays through passes. We saw how weak Welbeck is today, but he is only 17 and I still think he is gonna be great. O`shea… Was playing like O`my. Oh, My, God, He well and truly sucked. I could critisise evry player, but I cant remember any of them playing any football. This was shite, and I am gonna get burnt tomorrow.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:54
Tevez stank the place out. We played almost the same team against Southampton, who are I think four places worse off than Derby in the Championship and Berbatov ran the show and it was a stroll. Fair enough the young Derby lad Addison was imperious in the center, but our one shot on target was from john o’hell-he’s-starting and even that didn’t reach the keeper.
We better wake the fuck up against Chelsea and Wigan next week.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:55
@Craig Mc: Have to agree there mate. I’d go as far as saying that this season Berba has been our best offensive player.
Probably Welbeck wouldn’t have looked so good on Saturday if he wasn’t receiving the service from Berba. The lad is good, but at such a crucial position would we be satisfied with just a ‘good’ player. Right now Campbell looks better.
Andy too looked disinterested. Our midfield was crying out for an enforcer, but he looked disinterested to do it.
Andd finally it seems that Rafael for all his talents, can’t seem to pick a good pass.
Maybe the Portuguese masterplan is starting to backfire already.
As for Tevez, he previously couldn’t create, scored only once in a while, and if now he loses his grit and commitment what’s left to pay for him?
January 7th, 2009 at 22:56
@Orez: I’m with you Orez.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:56
Utterly shocking. What more can you say about one of the most inept performances I have ever witnessed from a United side. Frankly we should consider ourselves lucky to only be at 1-0 for the return leg.
Some of you will no doubt point to the team selection, midfield partnership, motivation, our form this year, SAF having lost his touch and so forth as reasons for this defeat. But that would be to try and provide excuses for the staggeringly bad performance by the starting 11, who are supposedly professional footballers. To attempt to excuse their performance tonight would be nothing short of criminal. I would like to note that the subs and Vidic are excused from the following criticism.
Start Nani over Park? Anderson as first choice midfielder with Carrick? Da Silva the new first choice right back? Tevez worth 125k a week and £32m in fees? Every one of them should consider themselves lucky that they are not being consigned to the reserve team for the rest of the season and fined two weeks wages. PIG, Evans, Welbeck and Gibson managed to look out of their depth against a struggling Championship side. Scholes, well put it this way, I thought he would be starting against Chelsea earlier in the week. And O’Shea…. well at least Evra’s suspension is finally served.
They couldn’t pass, they couldn’t shoot. The set pieces were diabolical, the defending lax and the midfield non-existent for huge stretches. Movement was poor and there was no understanding between the players. Tevez couldn’t trap a bag of cement, Anderson aimed every through ball and a white shirt and Da Silva had the positional sense of a drunk baby. I really could go on all day at this. And you know what is even worse? I didn’t think Derby even had to play that well to make us look like a pub team
That said a loss here doesn’t particularly matter too much given the second leg at OT and we are still hot favourites to progress to the final. But each of those players needs to go home and look at himself in the mirror. Regardless of circumstance or situation that was an unacceptable level of performance for a Manchester United player.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:57
I always read this blog and most of the time have nothing to rant about, but after that load of shambles on the pitch I had to break my silence. Its a pity because I had high hopes for this game, in terms of the youngsters showing their future United credentials like Welbeck and Gibson for example, and also seeing Anderson and Nani play with some creative freedom…But we got none of that.
People are going to rant about individuals not performing, in particular as the theme currently is people Nani bashing here, but it was in truth the whole team which played poor. Sure Nani’s freekicks were poor, but the midfield distribution was poor, in particular Scholes, which the 20 year old Addison had him literally in he’s back pocket. John O’shea did he steady pedestrian like job on the left and Rafael ran like a headless chicken without prevail. We had Welbeck upfront, who, despite he’s height couldn’t head on anything Kuszczak (:D spelt it right!) pumped forward.
This is suppose to be a good, if not, the BEST squad we have ever had, and to be honest I saw nothing like that out there. The only plus point is that this shouldn’t have any impact on the game on Sunday, although atleast a draw and not the stick I will recieve tomorrow would have been nice.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:58
@ROOOOONEY: What does that say about you then – twisted
.
January 7th, 2009 at 22:59
Oh and I realise our loss is all my fault today, I drank out of my cursed united mug by accident. I apologise to all concerned.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:00
@Vivek: Well imagine what Inter Milan are going to make us look like then.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:05
Let us spare a thought for Evans, who saved us a few more embarrasing moments tonight. He, was United’s best player for me. And Craig, I’m willing to give LMN some slack since he played ok in the first half and to me looked tired in the second (probably from lack of match fitness…)
January 7th, 2009 at 23:07
tevez needs to fuck off if hes going to perform like that! way, way too selfish for my liking.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:08
@Beachryan: Beechy Bro I’d say we played like we have been playing all season – 98% of our shots are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off target. How the feck is it that MULTI MILLION pound footballer strikers cannot manage to get any shots in or any shots ON TARGET. I thought Nani was regressing, but feck me, every one of our players has regressed in some form or other. I mean Derby fans see Ronnie and Rooney coming on, and they are quaking in their boots – hahahahaha – they know now there’s nothing to fear in the return leg at OT. Just take a look Derby at the number of 1-0 results United have, score an away goal and your thru lads.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:11
FUCK FUCK FUCK !!!!! (Sorry RR for the caps)
This has to be the most frustrating game all season, i can’t remember a single clear cut chance we created tonight against Derby ‘fucking’ County.Oh my god, we played a team which is struggling in the Championship for Christ sakes and made them look world beaters. To be fair Commons had a really good game but c’mon that display out there was a total disaster.
Anderson, for me was a mess tonight. He goes for the killer pass too often and gives the ball away so regularly it makes me want to pull my hair out. He for me has always been way over rated (i know i am going to get murdered for this comment) because apart from his energy he has never really shown me the quality that an attacking midfielder should possess in the final third. Lets be honest his shooting is woeful and his through balls although imaginative have hardly ever been executed proficiently.
O’Shea was downright awful, but I’ve come to expect that from the Irishman so no big shock there.I can’t wait for Evra’s return!!
Rafael had an off-night. He wasn’t great going forward and was getting exposed at times at the back as well. He’s young and developing so it is expected to happen once in a while. If I were SAF I’d play Neville against Chelsea but i’d keep on blooding himagainst the other sides because i see a lot of potential in this kid.
Nani had a couple of bright moments namely the one-two that played through O’Shea and the through ball to Tevez that won us a free kick but apart from that was completely invisible.
Which brings me to Carlos Tevez. He was awful. Apart from Carrick this was the same side Berba led to a comfortable victory against another Championship side. He was a part of everything that was good with United, and tonight all Tevez did was…..what the fuck did Tevez do?!?…i can’t remember a single productive thing he did all evening. I know one thing is for sure after tonight he will never be first choice at United and in my opinion his United days are numbered which in my opinion is a good thing because there is no way in fucking hell that i would pay 32 million for a player like Tevez.
Kun Aguerro, Messi and Kaka are the only 3 players out there that I would pay anything above 30 million for…..
January 7th, 2009 at 23:11
Conor mi man, I thought you assured me last night Bro, that I needn’t worry, that things were going on the up. I cant see even the slightest sign of that mate
. Chelsea can’t wait to meet us on Sunday after tonights debacle.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:13
That performance was so embarrassing, I had no option but to chug down a pint of cider when it ended!! WOW, awful line-up/formation and even worse performance. No player in that team bar Vidic and Nani deserved a rating above 5. I’m sorry here, but Fergie should take the blame for this performance. He plays two attack minded players in the middle away from home!!! Scholes was basically the holding player, WTF? If ur gonna play those two, at least make Ando stay behind scholes. That was the reason Derby had so much space when they were on the counter.
Let’s not even go into Gibson on the wings, WTF? He’s a good crosser but can’t beat a man to save his life. When I saw that line-up, I thought it was gonna be a 4-3-3 with gibo, ando, scholesy in midfield and Welbeck, nani and tev upfront – similar to when we played Blackburn in the cup. Fergie screwed this one big time and this is not the confidence booster we needed with chelski coming this weekend.
As if the line-up wasn’t crippling enuff, the lads on the pitch decided to leave their desire and concentration in manchester. The passes were off, there was no creativity (ironic, as we had two attacking mids for that purpose), the defence was shaky, overall, we made Derby look like Barcelona. I really want to know what Fergie has to say after such an abysmal performance by the whole team, especially the technical/coaching staff.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:14
i like twisted
January 7th, 2009 at 23:16
@Nico QB: Nico I’m hearing Nani was carrying a knock in the 2nd half, so don’t know. Also Nico I can’t get passed we should have 2 goals up before the sheep shearers scored, because Nani put O’Shea, and one of our other players thru one on one. How they did not score – well we all know don’t we. INEPT to the extreme
.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:17
@ROOOOONEY: I think everyone has already sussed that out
.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:21
@JB: Wow! that’s the first time I see JB “the voice of reason” venting the full extent of his wrath against the players. Something I’d never thought I’d see!
Anyway I agree with most of what you say xcept that I think Nani had a decent first half and I think you’re much too harsh on Evans. While he looked dodgy against Southampton I thought that tonight he made several crucial challenges as Derby attacked. Now that wass not his fault as the defender, but more the fault of an asleep midfield: basically Derby players cut through our midfield like butter…
January 7th, 2009 at 23:21
@Gabriel: Gabriel like someone said in another post – Evans saved our bacon a few times tonight too
. Otherwise I agree with you post mate.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:23
well murder them in the second leg
January 7th, 2009 at 23:24
@Sidharth: O Sidarth, so you didn’t see Nani put O’Shea thru one on one with Roy Carroll, and another player too. If they had netted, which they easily should have done, then we would have been 2-0 up before they scored as I said before.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:27
@Traverse: Hahahahaha – cursed United mug, that must be it then Bro
.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:28
@Nico QB: Trust me, that piece was toned down significantly from what I was going to write first time up. I would happily defend the players after tonight if I felt there was anything to defend or some positives to take from the performance. As SAF said the only thing we can take from tonight is the fact is that it is only 1-0.
On Evans, although he made several important blocks I felt he was making a meal of dealing with his striker and was poor positionally at times. Maybe an upgrade from piss poor to poor for him
Nani, yeah he was one of the better players in the first half but let’s be honest, that isn’t saying much
@Craig Mc: I wouldn’t read too much into this for the game against Chelsea. I have a feeling that there won’t be that many of tonights lot in the starting 11 on Sunday.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:31
Wow, Grognards comment must be long! After such a bad performance, its gone nearly an hour since the game ended. I cant wait!
January 7th, 2009 at 23:31
I think i can now safely say, I’m glad I missed the match, lol
January 7th, 2009 at 23:32
@Hakieran: I wouldn’t bet on the no bearing on Sunday’s result mate. I am praying that Rio is back to plug the defence, and that we find a DECENT midfield from somewhere. Tonights game funnily enough, would have been a good game for Park to play in, because we needed that defensive cover on flank and MF that Gibson couldn’t provide.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:34
@Craig Mc: Nah, you definitely won’t see Gibson, Welbeck, Nani, Tevez and PIG starting on Sunday, so don’t worry
January 7th, 2009 at 23:34
@Craig Mc: mate i said he put O’Shea through in the first half…i seemed to forget the second guy he put through in the first half..i do think he was pretty ineffective tonight except for the odd moment here and there.
I actually really like the guy but he seems to be regressing this season and I put quite a bit of the blame on Fergie but i do hope he improves and does come good for us in the second half of the season.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:38
Wow, how much crappier can we get, as crap performances go that was right up there.
Even against teams like Derby, you have to set up right to allow your superiority to influence the game.
There was tactical reasons why we were crap tonight and it has nothing to do with the starting 11, who were more than capable of winning that game tonight.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:40
@Craig Mc: Well I didn’t, given that O’Shea’s shot was blocked by a covering defender, so in fact was not in on the keeper. As for the other ‘one on one’….. I haven’t a clue who that was supposed to be and I’ve checked three online commentaries who make no mention of the incident.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:43
@JB: Considering you feel ALL the players apart from Vidic were horrendous and should be ashamed and made to face up to their performances tonight, then WHY shouldn’t they all be consigned to the reserves for the rest of the season?. Why just pick on the 4 you did – well I know why, so I don’t know why I am bothering asking. I would like the coaching staff to make the players STAY BEHIND after traininf every day for a month, to watch the video of tonights performance, and face up to what they dished up for the United away fans, who sang valiantly from the terraces, but who must have felt feckin ashamed and wanting to hide their faces behind their scarves. Not to mention the cost of going to Derby in travel and tickets to watch that SHITE dished up. I hope Derby get rewarded and go on to Wembley, and I mean that, because they gave blood for their cause tonight. They want Wembley real bad. Where might I add, Spurs will dispose of them easily.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:47
@JB: So watch the game on MUTV, I think it was Tevez, who lost the ball, because he cannot control a ball to save his life. But I know it happened, becaue I watch Nani’s game carefully, because of all the flak he cops after games. The defnder blocked O’Sheas shot, because O’shea dallied for a split second, and hit towards the defender, or let the DF onto him. Basically he was too slow. So I cannot agree with you there mate.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:49
Fergie reaction:
The margin of defeat was one of the scarce positives for Sir Alex Ferguson following United’s Carling Cup reverse at Derby County.
The Reds boss believes his side could have been staring at a mountain, rather than a molehill, of a task for the second leg of the semi-final after seeing the Rams take only one of several chances at Pride Park.
“The positive is we’ve only lost 1-0,” reflected Sir Alex.
“It’s a fantastic result for us considering the performance. We could have lost four goals so 1-0 is a fantastic result for us and going to Old Trafford now, it’ll be different.”
The team won’t be too different for the second leg, however – Sir Alex feels his young players can still take the Reds to Wembley after helping to see off Middlesbrough, QPR and Blackburn at home in previous rounds.
“I think we’ll persevere with our younger players,” Sir Alex confirmed.
“They deserve to be in there, I felt they were our better players tonight in actual fact. Gibson certainly was one of the better players.
“I have sympathy for Welbeck – he never really had any service in the game so it would be unfair to judge him.”
January 7th, 2009 at 23:50
@Rd: And you felt you had to make that comment WHY?.
.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:50
@Craig Mc: I picked on the four I did (and Scholes should really fall in there as well to be fair) because they are the ones pushing for the full time starting 11 slots and I expect better of them.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:54
@Rd: By the way, I’m not worried mate, because I think we will get a hiding from Chelsea whether they play or not. I am not impressed with our MF or forward play this season. So I think about Ballack, Deco, Lampard etc and feel we will be so outplayed in MF. But I will be there anyway, cheering on our pathetic bunch of this season, and I mean all of them.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:57
@Craig Mc: To be honest that sounds like clutching at straws. If we hyper analysed every other player we might be able to pick out one or two moments during the game for all of them. To be fair to Nani, I think there is a reasonable argument to say he was one of the best players out there (if you exclude Vidic and subs from the equation). That still doesn’t mean he played well. I agree with you defending him if he is being scapegoated (although I have only seen one person single him out) but I can’t agree with trying to defend his overall performance. Even if it was marginally better than the rest it was still an unacceptable level of performance from him.
January 7th, 2009 at 23:58
@JB: Ok fair enough Jb, BUT I expect better of ALL our inept players, they deserve to share responsibility for the performances this season. I feel only Vidic and Rio when fit, plus EVS have been very good for us. The rest of them – NO NO NO. O I apologise to Evra, I should include him as 1st rated performer this year too.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:02
@JB: I didn’t say his performance was tip top Jb, my arguement was that he did do a couple of very good thru balls that could have got us goals if those the balls got too, had shot on sight. I am not saying he was great, I know he wasn’t, but he sure as feck wasn’t any worse than most out there tonight. But hey, I will live with it, because he was carrying a knock in the 2nd half, according to 5 live.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:07
@RedDevilEddy: Gibson was one of our better players?. I do wish Fergie would stop guzzling the old red wine, its addling his brain. Fergie will never admit he got it wrong, or that we have had to put up woth a season of shite. I’m afraid it is going to have to take a few good hidings to convince him.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:08
Ì didn’t actually think Nani was that bad. His job is to stick to the wing and get crosses in. I also thought Vidic was good, and can’t blame Kusczak for the goal.
Screw it I’ll do player ratings, painful as they are:
Kuscak – 7 – He was alright. Not commanding. Never our number 1.
Rafael – 6 – Poor. Got caught out, left upfield a bunch, and Gibson spent half his time having to fill in for him. If Fergie wanted him as right winger, he should have just started him there.
Vidic – 8.5 – The only reason we’re still in the tie.
Evans – 6.5 – What happened. At fault for a good few chances Derby created, didn’t look composed at all. Got skinned repeatedly and didn’t win many aerial battles.
O’Shea – Part of the reason we’re not good tonight. Doesn’t provide anything on his side of hte pitch at all. And every ball played to him is as slow as you like coming back. Just not a LB.
Anderson – 6 – He tried but was still crap.
Scholes – 4 – What the hell??!?!?!?
Nani – 6.5 – Did create things, set up O’Shea and looked lively. Given how terribily placed Gibson was on hte right, meant everything had to come through him, so was always double marked, especially O’Shea missed the overlapping memo.
Gibson – 5 – I don’t blame him for being crap on the right, he’s not a wide player. Looked better in the middle.
Tevez – 4 – Still in Argentina right?
Wellbeck – 5 – Played like a kid in his second ever away game. I guess that’s okay, but not what we needed today. No touch, not many runs.
Team performance and tactics – 0.1 – Has to be Fergie’s fault. I’ve never seen us set up so incredibly wrong for a game, and then not adjust at all. Derby realised that they could handle NAni with 2 men on the left, and didn’t have to do anything with Gibson on the right, so had both of our strikers marked in front and behind by 2 men each, and used their strikers to pick up scholes and ando in our half. They don’t care how much Vidic and Evans pass to each other. And we never tried to ping one up to the strikers, because neither of them can hold the ball up. And who cares if they can, because they’d only be able to hold it for our midfielders coming through the middle, of which there none.
Quite simply I’m astonished we didn’t switch to a 433, and bring a midfielder to connect the strikers. OUr strikers weren’t at fault for having no service, our midfield was pegged back. Derby set up very well against us and we didn’t adjust a f*cking thing. Why are the coaches getting paid?
January 8th, 2009 at 0:18
@Craig Mc: Im not sure about Park being needed for tonight, if anything we would have needed some more firepower and skill to break through their defense, and it makes me laugh saying that…this is Derby for god’s sake!
We’ve got a track record for bouncing back against defeats, and hopfully we will in style, although as much as people might hate this but a scrappy 1-0 again will do us good for Sunday.
The fact is that this is now the second half of the season for us, and im sure fergie and the lads will do the rentboyz for us on Sunday.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:22
@Conor: I know Fletcher’s been our best big game player for a while now. And that should tell you right their how crappy we have been in big games.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:23
Although Vidic defended reasonably well tonight, in my opinion he must take a lot of the responsibility for our performance tonight, let me explain.
As the elder statesman and most senior player in our back four tonight, it was his responsibilty to dictate were our defensive line would be drawn and tonight it was far too deep and created a gap between the defense and forwards that was far to big for our midfield to cover,
This allowed Derby to go at the heart of our defense in dangerous positions way too easily {ie the goal} and made the gap for our mids to support the forwards too big for them to consistently build momentum, our play was too stretched which forced us to dwell on the ball for too long {Scholesy}, or else grope for passes that were never relly on {gibson and Anderson}.
Vidic has a tendency to drop too deep when Rio is not beside him and tonight he was practically playing just beyond the 18 yard box the whole game and this more than anything affected were we started to build our attacks from which in my opinion was too deep, and too far away from our forwards which prevented us from playing with speed and tempo.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:24
@edwin: Fuck that mate, I say waterboard the whole fucking lot.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:26
@Craig Mc: Mate, challenge him one on one in the parking lot behind the Stretford end. Blasphemer, bloody Hell
January 8th, 2009 at 0:26
Ratings:
Kuczy: [5] Couldn’t be blamed for the goal, it was a wonder strike and very few keepers could have saved it. Was really left unprotected by defence/midfieild, however, he still looked unsure and hesitant a lot of times, especially during corners. Can’t really see him being 1st team material.
Rafael: [4] Was really all over the place tonite, and I don’t mean that in a good way. A very undisciplined performance. Maybe it’s the enthusiasm and lack of inexperience, however, that’s why we have a technical staff and they should have worked on this negative aspect of his game to at least see an improvement. Would not trust him in any big/crucial games, especially against skilled opposition.
Vidic: [8] This was maybe the only player on that pitch that displayed ‘United’ class. He was dominant and saved Evans’ arse a few times. He is a true world class defender and it’s a shame his partner today left his concentration in Manchester.
Evans: [5] It’s a shame he will exit the 1st team with such a poor performance. His concentration was non-existent, he was lacking for pace and just looked unlike the young, promising defender we have come to love.
O’Shea: [4] I almost feel bad for giving O’shea this low mark, as we all know he doen’t have the quality to give performances that United deserve. How can a professional footballer not be able to trap the ball and pick out a proper pass? As if his technical ineptitude wasn’t enough, like evans, he left his concentration in manc town. Shame after such a lovely performance against southampton, he has to exit the 1st team with this howler.
Gibson: [5] Really don’t understand why Fergie likes to force square pegs in round holes. If i’m not mistaken, Gibbo is a central midfeider. Yes, he can cross the ball, but when u can’t beat a player, what’s the point of playing him there. He is so much more effective in the middle and I’m surprised we didn’t employ a 4-3-3 with him in the line-up.
Scholes: [4] Really poor performance from the ginger prince. This is partly to do with his return from a knock, but moreso to do with Fergie’s utilisation of him. He was basically playing the holding role today, what’s all that about? He is not a defensive midfielder and doesn’t even have the legs to adapt in that position. This was one of the reasons Derby had so much space on th counter. The goal was a result of this space and a more talented team would have gotten more goals with all that space afforded to them.
Anderson: [4] Was playing further up the pitch in the first half and proved to me why he is not an attacking midfielder. His thru passes were all misplaced and can’t control the tempo of a game to save his life. Even when he moved behind scholesy in the 2nd half, his display didn’t improve. Right now, he doesn’t deserve to be ahead of fletch in midfield.
Nani : [6] Was a constant threat and a thorn in Derby’s defense. However, if Nani cannot learn to release the ball on time, he will continue to warm the bench and eventually be left out of the 1st team. Has the skill to beat players, but takes it one dribble too far and ends up losing the ball and the play in the process. If when the ball is passes to your winger and you keep wincing, hoping he doesn’t lose it, then you know something is wrong.
Tevez: [3] Absolutely woeful performance. Could be judged as a minus-1 today. Maybe it’s cause of his trip to Argentina, but didn’t offer any telling contribution to the game. If he was hoping to prove his worth, he failed spectacularly. Hopefully, he was being bitter and refused to show some grit, because without that tenacity, he is pretty much a useless player for us.
Welbeck: [4] Wasn’t in the game today. Also didn’t perform and would have got equal ratings with Tevez if not for his age and lack of experience. Strikers thrive on supply and he received very little today. Like all the other fringe players, it’s a shame he had to sign off for now with a below-average outing.
Rooney, Ronnie, Cazza: [5] All of the subs had a decent outing, however, the team was in too much of a mess for them to effectively affect proceedings.
Fergie and his band of dimwits: [2] Absolute horror line-up from the coaching staff. Fergie has really been serving up some clunkers this season and today, it was a case of serious poor team selection and poor motivation that caused this performance. It seems like Fergie under-estimated Derby and expected us to steam-roll them with a disjointed team. Well, whatever confidence and morale we should have had going into the Chelski game is now lost. Really poor performance from the Big man.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:28
@Craig Mc: Now you are making me all warm and frisky with your comments on Berba. You smoothy
I agree by the way. The Count Rules!
January 8th, 2009 at 0:31
@Craig Mc: Just go to bed mate and dream about those 1000 Nani’s on the wall and everything will be fine tomorrow. Just remember, “the kid is not my son”?
January 8th, 2009 at 0:31
@Beachryan: I’m glad somebody noticed they double marked Nani because he was getting crosses etc in. Like you say Beechy, Sheasy didn’t give great support up that left flank, sooooooooo he didn’t have much option as back up.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:33
@Grognard: Grog, WTF
. You know I’m a scrapper, I don’t quit the ring so easily. I will stand my corner, or rather Nani’s corner 
.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:35
@Craig Mc: It’s a conspiracy mate. They are trying to fuck with your boy and bring you down. Just remember, I’m in your corner because even though he has annoyed me on occasion, I like Nani and I think he has more talent in his little finger than half of the squad put together. This team is just not a good fit for him and that’s easy to see. I find it funny how he seems to excel when he plays for Portugal. I also know that Scolari and now Queiroz give him way more freedom to roam around and let him express himself naturally.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:36
O by the way Grog, I have a much more energetic way of getting to sleep, I don’t need Nani or any other kind of counting. Ask my GF for confirmation on that – I think you know what I mean
. I am in the doghouse a bit at the moment though, because of my love for Girls Aloud babe Kimberley. Dash it Grog, I have too much love for my own good.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:39
@Grognard: You got the Portugal thing right Grog. He plays great most times when playing for his country. And yes he does have licence to roam more.
.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:40
@Grognard: The Count might have just been the man to bridge the massive chasm between our midfield and forwards tonight, nevertheless our starting positions for building attacks was shocking tonight and was something that we were guilty off at the back end of last season, too deep, too deep, too deep.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:50
Today is a good day for the Grognard. It started out with me being invited for lunch by a good friend who I was unable to see over Christmas because we all got snowed in here in Vancouver. This was great on two counts. First I was forced to record and not watch the debacle that was Man Utd’s embarrassing loss to DERBY FUCKING COUNTY
, which spared me the fact that I would have sat through 2 hours of disgusting and futile play by our highly overrated misfits of footy.
Secondly my friend made my millennium by giving me a gift that blew me away. In past years I have helped sell many of his sports collectibles and in appreciation for my efforts on his behalf at sports collectible shows and on E-Bay, he gave me an autographed Mickey Mantle baseball with COA which is valued at around 600 pounds or $1200.00 US. WOW! I am over the moon and totally blown away bu his generosity. The ball dates back to 1993 and has authenticity from a very reputable company. Having grown up a big Mantle fan as well as New York Yankees fan, this was a dream gift. Are you reading this Mr. Muhozi? I know you would be appreciative of what I am saying.
Anyway, nothing can dampen my mood today and the fact that I missed probably the trashiest performance a United team has ever had while under Ferguson is a relief. All I can say from what I have read is what a disgrace it was and what a humiliation to be a United fan today knowing that our once mighty and powerful warriors bottled it and let down all of Mancunia with their ineptness and lack of passion and heart.
I don’t plan to watch the game because frankly, I am not a glutton for punishment. Lets just say that today the Grognard has been further vindicated over his views on why this club is going nowhere fast. What a Joke!
But hey, I got a Mickey Mantle ball, HURRAH! 
January 8th, 2009 at 0:53
Today is a good day for the Grognard. It started out with me being invited for lunch by a good friend who I was unable to see over Christmas because we all got snowed in here in Vancouver. This was great on two counts. First I was forced to record and not watch the debacle that was Man Utd’s embarrassing loss to DERBY FUCKING COUNTY which spared me the fact that I would have sat through 2 hours of disgusting and futile play by our highly overrated misfits of footy.
Secondly my friend made my millennium by giving me a gift that blew me away. In past years I have helped sell many of his sports collectibles and in appreciation for my efforts on his behalf at sports collectible shows and on E-Bay, he gave me an autographed Mickey Mantle baseball with COA which is valued at around 600 pounds or $1200.00 US. WOW! I am over the moon and totally blown away by his generosity. The ball dates back to 1993 and has authenticity from a very reputable company. Having grown up a big Mantle fan as well as New York Yankees fan, this was a dream gift. Are you reading this Mr. Muhozi? I know you would be appreciative of what I am saying.
Anyway, nothing can dampen my mood today and the fact that I missed probably the trashiest performance a United team has ever had while under Ferguson is a relief. All I can say from what I have read is what a disgrace it was and what a humiliation to be a United fan today knowing that our once mighty and powerful warriors bottled it and let down all of Mancunia with their ineptness and lack of passion and heart.
I don’t plan to watch the game because frankly, I am not a glutton for punishment. Lets just say that today the Grognard has been further vindicated over his views on why this club is going nowhere fast. What a Joke!
But hey, I got a Mickey Mantle ball, HURRAH! 
January 8th, 2009 at 0:53
@OllieY: Mmmmm wouldn’t be so sure mate. We should have murdered them in this leg. Yet they were unlucky not to murder us. That Fergie has to be glad that Derby didn’t do us with more goals, says it all really, its bloody pathetic. I get the impression from what Fergie said after the game, that he doesn’t feel it matters if we lose away from home, because we will do them at OT. Yeah right
. What a pathetic way to look at things. That a team of so called super stars could rejoice that they didn’t get hammered by the minnows. We should be ashamed not to be walloping these teams 
.
January 8th, 2009 at 0:59
@Craig Mc: So this is the time you need a relaxant and so you take any picture or magazine with Kimberly and you go into the washroom and you ease your self into a sleepy state. Drastic times call for drastic measures. It’s like when my ex hated the fact that I would get together with some friends and go for a few ales at the local peeler bar. Christ, I never touched, I only looked. Sometimes their insecurity amazes me.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:02
@Fred The Red: Damn it don’t tell me more. You are getting me to become more curious than a cat in heat and I almost feel like I need to abuse myself and torture my soul by watching this game just so that I can come up with more negative venom to sling for the next month.
Nah, I’ll spare you all the wrath of Grognard as many of you have already done a very fine job on your own. Must have been some kind of blunderful
January 8th, 2009 at 1:05
@Fred The Red: I agree Fred, but in Vidic’s defence, he CAN efficiently defend when deep, unfortunately the others can’t. We also had nobody in the defence who could really get to the incoming balls from corners etc before the Derby forwards got to them. Usually Edwin can get to a lot of these balls, Kuczak can’t, and Fred I have zero faith in PIG as a GK for us.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:06
RED RANTER; A new thread please. This one has gotten very slow and sluggish now that it is nearing the 700 mark. If you are not around, then Ahmed, please make it so.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:14
@Grognard: Grog are you trying to get me kicked out on my arse mate, I’d never do that, because basically my GF is everything to me, and I’d feel like I was cheating on her. So better end this convo, because she eavesdrops on this blog
, and I wouldn’t want her to read this stuff 
.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:15
@Craig Mc: I agree, Vidic is a dreat defender anywere on the pitch, but for the sake of the team I think he should have pushed us 20 to 30 yards further up so that our team was not so stretched out.
I also like your taste in woman, Kimberley Walsh, a fine lass.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:18
Damn I had the flu today and got out of bed to watch the game in the hope that I’d get a glimpse of the future of Manchester United. Utter shit. I have to say it is games like this that make us realise who are the players who make us tick: Carrick, Evra, Rooney and Ronaldo. Without those guys we are very average.
Tevez and Welbeck are a defenders dream. Nani was probably our most dangerous player but keeps the ball too long and gives it away too easily so we had to work even harder tonight than we’d have liked.
God knows what happened to Scholes and Anderson is good defensively but cannot dictate play the way Carrick can. I say we need another creative central midfielder for when Carrick is out.
Vidic was solid but as captain he has to take some of the blame for our shambolic defending. Evans looked like a lost boy and it is lucky he is could at rescuing himself.
Gibson is not a winger. Thank god Tosic has arrived.
We should have brought Ronaldo and Rooney on at the sixty minute mark. I feel in half an hour they could have got us a goal.
Im confident we’ll win at Old Trafford but chances are we’ll have to use a few first team players we’d have ideally wanted to rest. My hope is that Tevez gets his head screwed on and we play him alongside Rooney in the return leg.
Chelsea on Saturday. I just hope our players are fresh enough to give a good performance because today we seemed anaemic, lazy and sluggish compared to a Derby side who pressed and pressed and ran and ran and deserved a few more goalss
January 8th, 2009 at 1:18
@Craig Mc: Fair enough mate. The doghouse is not warm and fitting for a bloke so go give her a kiss and an affectionate reach around and all will be well with the world. But remember Bro to count 1000 Nani’s silently before you fall asleep.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:51
@Grognard: What about 1000 Kimberleys Grog
.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:55
@Fred The Red: Isn’t SHE just Fred. Beautiful girl inside and out, the nicest member of Girls Aloud in my opinion
.
Now back on topic
, yeah maybe Vid should take more responsibilty for organising the defence, when Rio isn’t there.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:36
anderson sucks
January 8th, 2009 at 2:37
Anderson is terrible!! his passing percentage was probably 25% that game.
he sucks!! and nani takes 20 seconds on the ball every time he touches it!! 
i love tevez but he is getting worse and worse. 
rooney looked like the only one who cared out there. and vidic of course. but ronaldo kinda kicks it back doesnt really take on people like he used to. 
hes still great though so cant complain about him
January 8th, 2009 at 2:55
@Craig Mc: OK I had to finally go online and have a look at this gal Kimberly Walsh because she and her girl band are not even known yet in North America. All right Bro, she’s sweet but she’s also so plastic and manufactured. I personally hate woman that look like a Real Doll. But if she makes you all misty inside, who am I to argue. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Call me old but I’ll take Kate Winslet and the Cylon #6 from Battlestar Galactica any day of the week. Of course these days they wouldn’t have me, but I can dream can’t I?
January 8th, 2009 at 2:57
@Craig Mc: 1000 Kimberley’s over 1000 Nani’s?
Has Lil Man Nani entered Craig’s doghouse? Am I reading this right? Be still my beating heart. Nani has been forsaken. 
January 8th, 2009 at 5:07
Well that was the most dis-jointed performance I’ve seen in years. Nothing worked at all!!
The defensive line up provided a Keystone Kops display; letting the ball bounce then swinging and missing at the second ball, running into one another and then, when in possession, hoofing it down the throat of Derby’s rampaging midfield.
Now lets see about the “Midfield”. Scholes was playing a holding role for much of the time. Scholes as a holding midfielder!?, are you kidding me, any tackle from him is likely to see a Red Card, and he seemed to acknowledge that belief by sheepishly turning his back on most 50/50 balls. Anderson was rubbish in feeding forward, only providing an occasional accurate pass but usually providing the low low percentage option that our “Strikers” were not able to latch onto.
Our strikers played as if they would play for Bolton or Fulham. They were so clearly overmatched by the opposition that I often felt they tried to impress the Derby manager-to-be during the Transfer Window. Carlos Tevez was truly awful in anything he did. He made no opportunities for other players and certainly did not make any for himself (know what I mean!). Welbeck looked winded by his outing at Southampton and did not impress at all, as did Gibson. Rooney was surprisingly subdued when he came on and showed no sign that he wanted to get “stuck in” and prove his Kamikaze tendencies and Ronaldo again kicked the ball from way too far out!!
Nani showed again why SAF prefers Park in the big game. He impressively would dance down the left side only to make one poor decision after another. Turning to the outside instead of the inside, getting forced into the corner and then loosing possession by holding the ball too long. Park is much better at getting the ball through to the center but his accuracy is not great either.
In all, I feel that a better balanced selection would have done the job. SAF has Chelsea on his mind, clearly, and I allow for that, but he now has to field a strong eleven in the home leg against Derby if he wants Wembley in February.
January 8th, 2009 at 7:59
WTF. Park didnt play this game? Gosh, now we got no one to blame for the porr performance…
January 8th, 2009 at 8:39
@xWAYNExROONEYx: your name is terrible.
January 8th, 2009 at 8:43
before the game i was thinking, maybe o’shea should start at chavski, hes been playing OK and evra hasnt played for 4 games and must be out o form. then i saw john play…
welcome back evra.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:19
Last night was awful.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:28
That has got to be the worst team and individual performance(s) I have witnessed over the years. I just hope that this performance doesn’t translate to the Chelsea game.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:42
If Anderson and Tevez are worth a combined fee of £50m then I am a goat. That was an appalling and embarrassing performance, we will be better against the Rent boys simpley because only Vida will start out of the first eleven of last night.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:59
Ah!! I want last night’s 2 hours back as well.
Guilty as I am of Nani bashing to a bit, I thought he played pretty decent yesterday. In the first half, he was the best option in offense. He did make his usual silly mistakes from the set-pieces, but he also was lively and looked to be using his brains while setting up others. And twice at least he tracked back to where O’Shea was supposed to be to scrap for the ball. Sure he faded in the second half, but that’s more because everyone else on the pitch saw Rooney n Ronaldo as the ones to pass to. My hopes for him therefore are still alive.
The team set-up was absolutely shit as pointed out. Gibson on the right was awful, and only after he was put in the middle did he look like he understood who the f*ck he was.
Anderson and Scholes were confused as to who should do what. Lord knows you never play the two of em together. Anderson tried too many smart-alec through balls.. none of which were. Maybe Scholes got up thinking it was 1999 and tried to play that way. Whatever the reason, he was unable to do anything worthwhile.
Rafael seriously needs to be given extra classes in defensive positioning, and another one on ‘when to go forward’. Enough though, I love the boy.
Welbeck… though he didn’t have much to do with cuz no one paid attention to him.. he was truly a lost soul. Poor positioning.. and he is utterly slow (seemed that way to me at least). He’s 17 yr old or something.. so i won’t bash him more.
Tevez:
Oh Tevez! That way you are not gonna get a 5 year deal or even a loan extension deal. Truly useless last nite. His contribution was an absolute epitome of useless. Waste of flesh and blood out there last nite.
O’Shea: It’s not his fault, but he cannot do anything right on the left side.
Evans did okay overall, some poor stuff and some good stuff. Mixed bag.
Vidic was definitely the saving grace. By far our best player this season. I’m sure he misses our best back-four of him, Rio, Evra and Brown.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:02
@Redrich: I have a feeling SAF gives four flying fucks about the Carling cup. His selection last night was reflective of such. He just gave players a starting run-out.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:05
Whoever said that last night we made Derby look like AC Milan was spot on!
January 8th, 2009 at 11:07
@Beachryan: Gibson and Carrick look exactly the same on my TV as well. It’s so freakin difficult telling who’s who.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:14
@Rahul: It looked like a friedly the way we performed out there.
I firstly am not that fussed about the Carling Cup, but it is a semi final and should be played as one.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:15
@Rahul: Nah imo, I think he cares but he obviously has Sunday’s game in mind. What worries me now is that when Derby comes to OT we’re probably gonna see them Parking the bus like we’ve never seen.
@dan(u-ol): Wipe that awful thought off your mind. As long as Evra is fit, O’Shea shouldn’t be starting at all.
@scrtls: lmfao, i had to laugh, the Park- bashers won’t see anyone to vent on. All thats left is a confirmation that Phelan wasn’t involved in the match at all.
@Gabriel: I still don’t get it, what was wrong with the line- up???
@Craig Mc: Ummm, because you were talking about judging this performance to guage the Chelsea game and I replied that most of the players that started today won’t start on Sunday, so it’ll be different. It wasn’t a dig at Nani if thats what you think.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:19
@Stephen: Exactly mate… hence my utter disdain at yesterday’s show.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:19
@Rd: I won’t bet against that!
January 8th, 2009 at 11:20
Late post i know but i have to say this. man utd is simply becoming a one man team = berbatov. after japan the guy has simply pulled us through with crucial wins and results and when he does not play like last night we look toothless.
i am still optimistic we will pull through but thats lotsa lessons learnt
January 8th, 2009 at 11:24
Rahul, regardless of what Ferguson thinks about the Carling Cup he still put out a team with over 50 million pounds market value.
I think the real problem was the balance of the team. As someone pointed out Anderson and Scholes do not play well together. The defence had no leadership and there was a complete lack of understanding between the players. Gibson was played out of position. Welbeck is lightweight and I saw no evidence that he had any pace. Whatever has happened to Manucho? I loved the boy at the African Nations and against a physical Championship team like Derby he’d have roughed them up. Tevez just looked pissed off.
Also I think Giggs would have done a better job in that game than Scholes or Gibson and seeing as Giggs is not a first team starter would have been nothing lost from playing him tonight. I know people slate Giggs but he at least has an ounce of creativity and is good enough to play against a Championship side.
I agree this isn’t going to be reflective of Chelsea. From the players Fergie rested my guess is against Chelsea he’ll play:
EVDS
Neville Rio (if fit) Vidic Evra
Park Carrick Fletcher Ronaldo
Berbatov Rooney
Utterly predictable and I fully expect people to criticize Fergie for selecting Park and Neville and Fletcher. But sadly this is our first XI in Fergies mind this season and none of the boys on Wednesday did anything to force Fergie to change his mind.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:26
@Rd: @Rahul: I will bet on this happening on Sunday, we play well for 15 mins great attacking football, then try to sit on it, they score, we draw 1-1, poor 75 mins of turgid football.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:28
@colver: If Neville plays, then surely we must start Nani.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:33
@colver: Yea.. but I seriously hope Brown recover faster and plays the RB slot over Neville. Rafael for late subs and weaker teams. Also Giggs could have been of use in last night’s maniacal mess.
@Stephen: I’m contemplating whether to even watch the game! Dunno about the score.. it surely will be turgid.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:38
@colver: Where is Man-uch-o, what is the point of not playing him in games like last night?
@Rahul: Lets hope it is a lot better than last night, as I said I know it was only the CC, but I expect United players to wear the shirt with pride, especially in semi finals when a Wembley day out is on the cards. There were players just stolling around seemingly not caring.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:34
Um…what?!
Stoke City defender Ritchie De Laet has today agreed a deal to join Premier League, European and World Club Champions Manchester United.
The 20-year old, who has spent the early part of this season on loan at non league side Wrexham, will pen a contract at Old Trafford after the two Club’s agreed a performance related payment package.
Apparently true, all over the news.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:48
In the last few games I have seen a pattern emerging.
The united forward line has moved from last years fluid 3 (in a 4-3-3) to 1-1 (in a 4-4-1-1) with the introduction of Berba. But our midfield has not adjusted to this change. They are still stuck in a 4-3-3 mindset where there are 2 holding and 1 forward midfielder. In the current 4-4-2, 1 or both of our CMF’s have to push up frequently. This is especially true since we tend to play with defensive wingers these days(Park, Gibson). Now, if you watch the games closely, what we can see is the CB’s passing the ball amongst themselves, and then pass it to one of the CMF’s. They in turn pass it back to the CB’s. The CMF’s do not turn and run at the opposition like a good AMF but they make too many square passes and of late many hollywood thru balls (Anderson was especially guilty yesterday). To counter our midfield, all the opposition has to do is sit back in their own half, let us pass the balll all we like in our own half, and as soon as the CMF decides to carry the ball into the opposition half, they begin to hustle our players, to win the ball back/foul our players/to generally break up play. They always keep 2 men on Ronnie to track his runs and that cuts out our only avenue of escape from this trap. Our other “winger”, Park is usually the free man in this, but he is not quick enough to make use of the space given to him. Berba/Rooney then have to come deep to collect the ball from the CMF’s and even when they are successful in finding a thru ball since Ronnie is too tightly marked for him to do anything. His woeful attitude of late hasnt helped either.
So thats my two cents on our current problems.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:55
who?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4764085,00.html
January 8th, 2009 at 13:14
@Craig Mc: Ahhh Craig mate…somebody else who appreciates that frisky Vixen that is Ms. Walsh! Ooooh ahhh I say!! (If you saw the Girls Aloud Party which was on ITV just before Christmas you’ll know what I’m talking about!)
PS. I know all about the doghouse mate, w.r.t. to my admiration for Kimmy ….and many other women!
January 8th, 2009 at 13:29
@Stephen: You can at least try to show some optimism, lol
@Michael: And yes i’m wondering the same thing, who is he?? It just broke on SSN a while ago. And I’m confused, some news sources are saying its a full signing, while Man Utd.com says its a loan deal.
January 8th, 2009 at 13:32
@Rd: I was referring to the lack of balance the players exhibited as a result of the formation or rather the wrong formation for the players we had on the pitch.
In a 4-4-2, you need at least one competent defensive midfielder and yesterday we had none. Scholes was playing the holding role FFS. Combined with the deep positioning of our defenders, there was so much space!! If a more talented team saw that space, we would have been punished with quite a few goals. What even peed me off more was that this was fairly obvious even to the untrained eye in the 1st half and instead of Fergie to order Ando to move back and scholes forward, he waited all the way till the second half to do so. By this time, Derby’s confidence could not get any higher, what with all the space they were being afforded.
Then there’s the forcing square pegs in round holes. Why does Fergie exploit player’s versatility so much. Is it any coincidence that it wasn’t until Gibson moved to central midfield that he began to look like a decent footballer? This is because he is a central midfielder, not a right mid/winger. Fergie does this all the time and messes with players’ key positional abilities, ergo their confidence.
There was nothing wrong with the batch of players on the pitch, it was simply the tactics and formation employed. I’m sure you would admit, a 4-3-3 would have been more suited with the players we had on the pitch? Gibson hovering in front of defence, with scholes and Ando allowed to do their thing. Nani and Welbeck to create width with tevez in the middle. It was a diplay of under-estimation and poor management by Fergie and his ‘Yes-men’. We under-estimated Derby, put out a dis-jointed team for the sake of fitness or whatever and failed to promptly change tactics when things were so horribly going wrong in the first half.
This is one aspect of Fergie’s game this season I do not like, the balls to promptly change things mid-match when they are not going right. I don’t know if it’s stubbornness or he misses someone that can tell him to his face that something needs changing, cause it sure as hell doesn’t look like any of the coaching staff do that at the moment.
January 8th, 2009 at 13:37
just checked out my FIFA09 widget it says united signed de laet? who the hell is that guy? says he’s a defender and came from stoke, if we can sign complete unknowns, sign tevez now!
January 8th, 2009 at 13:47
@Nino: Yeah mate, I saw the girls aloud party, and yes Kimmy – WoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooW
. Thing is Nino, she doesn’t even try to be sexy like the other GA girls, she just IS naturally all woman, as she sings in their song, “From top to bottom I’m a woman sunshine” – haha!. Glad to know others out there get in the doghouse for just showing a bit of admiration for the admirable in other lasses. But when they are like drooling for male celebs, well that is ok, talk about double standards!
Anyway, back on topic – I agree with Gabriel points about our poor MF, and Fergie’s frustrating inaction to change things early. Ronnie was sent on FAR too late to make a difference.
January 8th, 2009 at 13:54
@Beachryan: Beechy Bro, it embarasses me when I hear us chanting PL, Cl, world champions in away grounds, when we are performing the shite we have been dishing up this season. Oh the irony
.
January 8th, 2009 at 13:58
@Stephen: Stephen, I hear Man(u)cho has become a leper, and has to ring a bell when trying to get the attention of Fergie and his not so merry men
. Poor Manu, I hope he gets to go on loan, and get a bit of first team football. 
.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:01
@Stephen: Stephen, if we do not get MF sorted, I think Chelsea will do us on Sunday. The same goes for our pathetic striker performances.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:08
@Craig Mc: We just nned to score more goals mate, and watching our lack of creativity in midfield it won’t change.
Anderson really is going backwards and to me looks very, very expensive for £18m, Iknow he is young but jeez, and I must we need to give Nani a game, especially if Gary Red plays.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:08
De La Et will play for the reserves, and he used to play for Royal Antwerp. Royal Antwerps former assistant manager is now Ole’s assistant manager with the reserves. Looks like this guy has said ‘De La Et is worth a punt’, and we’re giving him an extended trial to see what ole thinks.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:16
@Rahul: Well that isn’t good enough mate, and very DISRESPECTFUL of United fans who travelled and obviously DO GIVE A FUCK. Who got numbnuts from standing in the freezing weather, and SANG their hearts out, and for what?, to be rewarded with a half arsed performance that makes me severely embarrased. United fans don’t deserve this kind of shite, I don’t care if we lose, but I do care about the performance we put on, and the ridicule United fans have to put up with from opposing fans, while at the same time chanting champions of etc.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:17
@Craig Mc: I hear ya bro…I hear ya! She looks foxy as hell in the video for their new single too, though I can’t believe she’s bloody 27 (according to Wiki) already! Anyway let’s get back to football before we get in trouble eh! lol
January 8th, 2009 at 14:23
@Craig Mc: I am not going to the second leg especially with the Carling Cup rip off scheme.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:25
Ronaldo crashed his car this morning….lol. Will play on Sunday though.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:26
@Grognard:
. Kimberley = LOVE 
.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:32
@ Gabriel – Good post, that’s exactly what worries me most. I mean, it seemed simple, just pull Gibson back to where he likes to play, allowing Scholes and Anderson to play where they like to play, and see how the team plays when all the pegs are in the right sized holes.
But Fergie has shown time and again this season a certain naivity with formations and substitutions. Personally some of this comes down to luck (he can make a change and it can be the right one, but some other event happens which makes it look bad) but last night was absolutely screaming for a shift to 433, and pulling a midfielder forward to link play. Begging for it.
Does anyone remember anytime in our past when our two centre backs did so much passing between themselves? Part of me likes the possession, but without pressuring teams we’re nto stretching them, and it means they can relax and not get tired. Dull.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:41
@Craig Mc: I would like to have them all, even the ginger one!
January 8th, 2009 at 14:43
@Grognard: Grog mate you are WRONG with a Capital W
. Don’t mistake her concert persona for Kimberley herself. She is a very fashionable lady with her own style and dress, she is classy mate. She is very personable ‘girl next door’ type, utterly lovable. Everyone LOVES her, and the media who criticise everyone as you know, have only ever had good things to say about Kimba. So please, you cannot judge by the costume dress on stage, you need to see the person in their own habitat, which I have done. Kimberley is beautiful when you see her in the flesh without make up. Her skin is to die for. But anyway, enough of this. I love everything about this girl, and she is the most down to earth NORTHERN lass, with no airs and graces. Don’t get me going Grog, the GF is already miffed with all the Kimberley love 
. You aint seen the right photo’s mate, and you haven’t seen her in the flesh – I have. Errr no literally in the flesh – man I’m in so much trouble!.
Anyway, one thing United fans won’t love about Kimmie, she is a Leeds United fan. Whereas 2 of her bandmates Nadine and Sarah are Man United fans. Cheryl Cole married to numbnuts Ashley Cole of Chelsea and England is from N’castle and is of course a fanatical N’Castle fan. Nicola is from scouseland, and supports Everton. They all love football, so they are sporty and great girls to have a couple of beers and chat down the pub with.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:48
@Grognard: Hahahahaha – Kimberley is LOVE
.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:53
@Stephen: Stephen, if your GF reads this blog, you are in so much shit mate
. I thought I was bad loving on Kimberley, but you want them all.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:56
@Beachryan: Beechy, you and Gabriel up for a thousands of pounds a week job on United’s coaching team, because you would do so much better m’thinks than the ones we have
.
January 8th, 2009 at 14:57
@Craig Mc: I do what I can mate, they are all very, very splendid, I do have a funny thing about the ginger one I must confess!
January 8th, 2009 at 14:59
@Stephen: I was going to go Stephen, but when I heard Fergie saying he was going to continue with the youth for the return leg, I thought Fuck it. So I won’t be there.