Oct 03
The Debate on United’s First Eleven
It was interesting to hear Fergie make comparisons recently to the Treble-winning squad. He particularly alluded to having a pool of strikers who he could rotate through the season, drawing parallels with the Yorke, Cole, Solskjaer and Sheringham quartet. However, whilst the strength in depth of our squad is at least equal to the Treble boys (and probably superior), there is one major difference that makes other comparisons irrelevant:
We have no idea what our best team is.
Simple as that. And to me, that makes us vulnerable. When the going gets tough, it helps to have habits to fall back on, to know how your teammates and going to react and where they will position themselves, to have the belief that comes from having got through this before together. If we’re not careful, we’re going to lose that valuable ingredient. In 1999, there was no doubt at all what our best eleven was:
Schmeichel – Irwin, Stam, Johnsen, Neville – Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham – Yorke, Cole.
No question in anyone’s mind. So to rotate a couple of players here and there was useful and practical. They fitted into the side amongst the core of 8 or 9 players from the first team – Blomqvist, Butt, Solskjaer, Sheringham, Phil Neville, Henning Berg and others all played strong supporting roles in this context.
Even last season, nine of the eleven names on the teamsheet were set in stone:
EVDS – Evra, Rio, Vidic, Brown – ??????, Carrick, ??????, Ronaldo – Rooney, Tevez
You could have had a debate about Anderson, Scholes or Hargreaves to play alongside Carrick, and between Giggs, Nani and Park for the left wing slot, but the rest was clear-cut.
Now this season. I would say, based on performances so far and assuming a fully fit squad, I think there are five names, six at most, who definitely form part of our best team:
?????? – Evra, Rio, Vidic, ??????- ??????, Carrick, ??????, Ronaldo – ??????, (Berbatov)
And that doesn’t even take into account that we don’t know our best formation – do we play 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-2-1?
Why don’t we know?
So why is it such a mess? Well, the most recurring theme is the transition to the next generation. Across the team, there are players who are just a bit too old to be play their best all the time, and there are players who will be good but haven’t matured fully yet. Complicating matters even further, in most positions there is a solid but unspectacular third player.
GK: EVDS (fading legend); Kuczszak (solid middle-man); Foster (future superstar)
RB: Neville; Brown; Rafael
CM: Scholes; Hargreaves/Fletcher; Anderson
LM: Giggs; Park; Nani
The striker issue is different, and we’ll come onto that. But for these four positions, there is a tough balance to strike between experience, competence and potential. Filling the gaps with EVDS, Neville, Scholes and Giggs would leave you concerned about the energy levels of your team, particularly in the last third of the game. Use TK, Brown, Fletcher and Park, and you will get solid performances but rarely a match-winning performance. Opt for Foster, Rafael, Anderson and Nani and the thrills of watching young talent blossom will be tempered by heart-attacks as they make mistakes and learn some tough lessons in the heat of battle.
On the strikers, things have been stirred up the purchase of someone who is not comparable to anyone else in the squad. When Berba is fit and firing, he must surely play – and equally, there can surely only be space for one of Tevez and Rooney. Here the variables are different. Berba is the sort of player who will run hot and cold more emphatically than Rooney or Tevez, because he contributes little when he is not scoring or contributing to goals – how will Fergie react to a cold spell? Which of Rooney and Tevez will play best with him, or will it be the case that each partnership offers a subtly different skill set? Is there a way of accomodating all three in a different formation? The are questions to which nobody, not even Fergie, has the answer, so we must wait and see.
Outside factors
I can’t finish this article without playing this game. So what should our best team be? Assuming a fully fit and reasonably on form squad, what is our best team? Hmmm?
First things first – did you immediately start putting together a line-up in your head? Or did you mentally ask “what is the match”? If you’re in the latter group, you seem to be in line with Fergie’s current thinking, that a game away at Chelski requires a totally different team to a game at home to Bolton.
I’m not sure about this approach. I would prefer to play our best side, and say “here you go, do your worst, because we know this team is good enough to beat anyone”. It’s a slightly simplistic view, though, when you have a squad at your disposal that offers all sorts of shades of grey rather than forcing you to pick black or white.
Indeed, as the CL final showed, a creative team selection can really gain the initiative, and tailoring the complexion of your line-up to the occasion appears to be logical. But then, would you care to recall the away leg of the Barca semi? No, me neither – it can be taken too far.
Who would you pick?
For the sake of argument, I’m going to give you four line-ups. First, what I regard to be the best team we can select, assuming I had to pick a team for a game without knowing who the opposition were or where it was to be played. Second, home to a big four or major European team, assuming I accepted the principle of adjusting my team to suit the occasion. Third, away to a big team. And fourth, against lesser PL opposition.
Best team (blindfold)
EVDS – Evra, Vidic, Rio, Brown – Nani, Carrick, Anderson, Ronaldo – Rooney, Berbatov
EVDS just gets the nod over Foster for his experience, but a few impressive performances from Foster would change my mind fast. Neville looks too sluggish, Rafael to weak defensively. Nani gives us the attacking flavour that I think we should approach every game with. Anderson and Carrick have all the attributes between them to be a sensational partnership. Rooney links more naturally with Berba at present.
Home to a “big” team
EVDS – Evra, Vidic, Rio, Brown – Park, Hargreaves, Carrick, Ronaldo – Rooney, Berbatov
Park shores up one wing, making up for the fact that Ronaldo won’t track back – the central midfielders only have to cover one errant winger. Equally, Evra provides extra impetus behind Park going forward, whilst Park provides more cover for Evra’s over-enthusiasm going the other way. Hargreaves gives more mature and secure bite to our midfield, where Anderson can be a bit of a gamble.
Away to a “big” team
EVDS – Evra, Vidic, Rio, Brown – Hargreaves, Carrick, Anderson – Ronaldo, Rooney – Berbatov
Three in central midfield ensures we get a foothold in the game, with Anderson having licence to bomb on if the foothold turns into a more sustained advantage. Ronaldo and Rooney are more flexible, looking to start raids wherever there is space.
Lesser team
Foster – Evra, Vidic, Rio, Rafael – Nani, Carrick, Anderson, Ronaldo – Rooney Berbatov
Gives Foster and Rafael valuable experience. Rafael’s and Nani’s attacking prowess is more relevant against the large number of teams that set up with ten men behind the ball.
Obviously many of you will have alternative opinions, but that’s what the comments are for. Should we be adjusting for who are opposition are and where we are playing? And how would your four line-ups look?
Ed: Penguin, the author of this article, also blogs here.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Barnsley vs Manchester United: Preview
- Manchester United vs Wolves: Preview
- West Ham United vs Manchester United: Match Preview
- Man Utd v Celtic: Preview
- Can We Really Rely On Berbatov?
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (542)
Stephen (500)
RedDevilEddy (462)
Craig Mc (349)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Ryan: Agree with that formation, as I think it almost picks itself. The only contentious spot and choice I think would be the Nani/Park debate…
I for one am looking forward to seeing the Fletch/Anderson partnership again. I know he hasn’t exactly been the reincarnation of Zidane, but I have found watching Fletch to be very pleasurable and I find myself rooting for him to do well. Its almost like we are proud parents having watching his occasionally painful development and its just very rewarding to see his hard work and determination paying off. There was a tackle in the first half against Bolton that he made where someone else gave the ball away cheaply, it looked like Bolton were going to hit us on a break, and Fletch came out of nowhere with an absolute peach of a crunching tackle to win the ball back. That shit had me off my couch.
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@Drew Vader:
Yeah I think Fletcher deserves it because he has done a good job for us whilst we have had injurys, just a shame for him when Carrick, Scholes and Hargreaves come back he will more than likely be squeezed out. But him and Anderson have the chance to show what they can do together and its up to them to become undroppable.
I think after his midweek performance Fergie will take Nani out the fireing line, his confidence is low and its a game we must win. Im sure he will be introduced late on if we need to change the game. So with Rooney out will Manucho be sitting on the bench?!?
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@dan(u-ol): I n fairness to Alves he plays for a shitty team that provides him very little quality service. It’s a big step below playing for a team in the bottom 10 of the EPL. Teams that lack skill and imagination don’t create a lot of chances. And all strikers require service in order to sing for their supper.
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I wonder if the Glazers got there hands on a part of the 700 Billion? It would be nice if the US goovernment bailed United out… while im dreaming, it would also be nice to take Palin out on a date and see how dumb she truly is…
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nice article….
look at some of stats about our midfield…….makes an interesting read
link
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I concur with the Penguin. Except vs lesser teams I’d play this below
Foster – Evra, Vidic, Rio, Rafael – Carrick, Anderson/Possebon – Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo – Berbatov
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Good persepctive, i think its open different side.
i want to share my perspective. my team selection prefer to what for? for Premiership? LC? FA Cup? or Carling Cup ? i focus and want to build “strikers chemistry” with my selection.
For Strikers : i prefer Berbatov&Rooney for Premiership and Carling Cup, Berbatov&Tevez for LC and FA Cup.
For Midfield : i agree with Penguin, depend on situation and ur opponent.
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If I had to pick one team for the entire duration of the season:
EVDS, Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Hargreaves, Scholes, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Rooney
Formation: 4-3-3
There would be the option of changing to 4-4-2 by bringing Nani on for Scholes. Alternatively Anderson could come on once Scholes began to tire.
My reasoning is that even if he is not as consistent as he used to be Scholes on his day is miles ahead of the other central midfielders. Therefore I’d give him the first half to change the game for us and then if he was off form or tired I’d bring on Anderson his eventual successor for a grittier but less creative substitute to firm up our hold on the game.
I would use Nani as an impact sub because he has a lot of pace and would take advantge of tired defenders and the attacking impetus he would give us late in the game would offset his tendency to give the ball away.
Tevez would come on for Rooney or Berbatov at some stage.
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This is hilarious!
Keano – what a legend!
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its been awhile! just been on hols in Barcelona, what a city! recommend it to anyone. Good article Penguin! You’re getting into Fergie’s mindset. I know that Aalberg werent up to much, but there are still Berba doubters out there after 2 goals! Lads, Berba is world class, he just needs time to fit into our style and get used to playing with Rooney, Teves, Ronaldo et al. This is already progressing nicely.
Anyone remember when Andy Cole came to us from the barcodes? He played a completely different system in newcastle to what was expected with us. Naturally it took time for Cole to adjust,indeed Van the man had to learn the united way too, now i’m not comparing them directly, but you get my point. Give the guy a chance to prove you wrong or right.
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@phoenix red: agree with your comment mate but one tiny correction from your post RVN never needed any settling in period. He hit the ground running from day one…but do agree that Berba needs time and he eventually will prove to be a class signing.
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@Sidharth: know what you’re sayin bro, although i felt that RVNs overall game definitely improved in time with us.
Any predictions? My cautious self says 2-1 to us.
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@Sidharth: know what you’re sayin bro, in RVNs case, i was thinking more of his overall development as a player as opposed to his goalscoring prowess
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sorry internet teething problems, double comment
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Wheres the pre-match article for the Rovers game today?
I’m saying 2-1 to us, Berba to open on 6 minutes!
Peas out.
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team news?
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Go Sunderland Go…
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the tevez hating on here is incredible. the guy has had 2 or 3 off games after being demoted, despite being our best player early in the season, and people are calling for his head? lest we forget some of the absolute clutch goals he scored for us last season, his incredible work rate, and his unflinching commitment to the club. i challenge anyone on here to find a more skilled young player with a better winning record across his brief career. and seriously, anyone who is saying they would rather spend that 30mil on huntelaar doesn’t know shit about the sport.
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VDS
brown
vidic
rio
evra
JOS
ronaldo
giggs
nani
berbatov
tevez
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anybody have a link for the game?
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@t_reason: why is o’shea starting for fuck sake! and wheres rafael!
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whoa!! sorry guys, that wasnt the right one…YahooEurosport said that…
This one is from soccernet…surely u can rely on them
VDS
Rio Evra Brown Vida
Fletch Andy Ronaldo Giggs
Berba Roon
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@t_reason: jeez, dont do that again, but i still see brown…
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Team From MUTV
VDS
Brown
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra
Anderson
Fletcher
Giggs
Ronaldo
Rooney
Berbatov
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@dan(u-ol): ya, should have waited for JB
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heres me thinking the days of giggs on the wing where finish, and nani becoming a starter, how wrong was i.
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link for the match;
http://www.veetle.com/viewChannel.php?cid=48cb03bd8ab18
Requires a small plug-in instalation first, but then you watch in-browser.
Good quality so far.
Peas out.
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The preview is up, but it’s very short and of course the news on line ups is a bit stale. But you can continue discussions there
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rooney is playing guys!!!!!!!!
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goallllllllllllllll
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I can’t believe people on here have dared to question Tevez’s role as a United player
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4-3-3
Foster
Brown – Ferdinand – Vidic – Evra
Hargreaves – Scholes – Anderson
Ronaldo – Berbatov/Rooney – Tevez
Tevez has to start, he’s better than Rooney and Berba. I chose Foster in goal because Van der Sar is finished and if Foster is the real deal, let him prove it
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I think you ignore the fact that Tevez is one of the best big game performers while Fletcher is always overlooked.
Premiership matches should rotate around central midfieders with Park, Nani and Fletcher rotating while Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves and Anderson rotate and Giggs is a substitute. Ronaldo keeps his place as does the immense back four (including Brown) Berbatov starts but i do not see why we could not start with Ronny and Rooney/Tevez on either flank with Berbatov and another in the middle. Best front four and back four in the world (maybe in History)
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I read the whole article and all the comments (ok, almost all of them) twice over. Lemme catch up some themes that caught my eye.
Sure we don’t know what’s our best formation. Thats a good thing because we have good players all over.
Sure we pay excessively for players. But as someone already said it, thats because we are a victim of our own success. If Manchester United want to buy someone, the guy must be that good and his price must be that high. Thats how every other club goes in. And, mostly we get good value from our over the odds prices.
Did someone say 12.5 mil for an unproven 17 year old was too high?? If we hadn’t paid so much, that unproven 17 year old would have been at Arsenal by now.
Tevez is nowehere in author’s lineups. Campaign winning contributions (Lyon away & Blackburn away got us titles; plus the huffing n puffing to annoy the hell out of Barca for example) surely deserve an assurance of not being denied any thought.
Lastly, IMO, i see no reason why we cant have Lord Dimitar, Master Rooney, Senor Tevez and Count Cristiano all starting the game against lesser PL opposition.
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Interesting that you don’t regard Tevez as a starter in any formation.
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@Rahul: It was me who said that, and why would he be at Arsenal now?, would they have paid that for him?, I think not.
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Great stuff. Though I was slghtly disappointed to see that Tevez didnt make it to any of your lineups.
Though it may never work, I’d love to see the Fab Four playing together.
At least against the Boltons and Fulhams of the world.
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