Sep 04

The fools on the hill

Tag: Opinion Piece @ 8:50 am

Day after day,
Alone on a hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see that he’s just a fool,
And he never gives an answer,

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning ’round.

Well on the way,
Head in a cloud,
The man of a thousand voices talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him,
or the sound he appears to make,
and he never seems to notice,

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning ’round.

And nobody seems to like him,
they can tell what he wants to do,
and he never shows his feelings,

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning ’round.

Ooh, ooh,
Round and round and round.

And he never listens to them,
He knows that they’re the fools
They don’t like him,

The fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning ’round.

Ooh,
Round and round and round

Writer: LENNON, JOHN WINSTON / MCCARTNEY, PAUL JAMES

Ever since September 2nd’s shambolic last second desperado attempts to acquire talent for Manchester United, I have had this song playing in my head and have come to accompany it’s lyrics with the reality that has become David Moyes and Edward Woodward.
The fools on the hill or the fools from Old Trafford, either way it ends up the same at the end and the lyrics resonate with reality. David Moyes has gone from being a mystery and a small concern three months ago to the man who cannot put his pants on right. His short tenure as manager of Manchester United has been a roller coaster car that is waiting to derail and come crashing down to earth while crushing the dreams and aspirations of the millions of supporters who begrudgingly placed their support and faith in the man.

In these three months Moyes has gone from mystery, to popular choice to out of his depth tactically and now he is marked by his ineptitude and incompetence in the transfer window as well as having shown no positive signs in improving his club’s chances or play on the pitch. I cannot help but recall Sir Alex Ferguson’s plea to all the supporters to stand by our new manager and give him a chance. Fair enough, but it has become evident quite early in his Manchester United career that the man may have bitten off more than he can chew. As far as this supporter is concerned, he is way over his head and way out of his depths and his lack of support from upstairs points to a disastrous turn as manager of this once proud and prestigious club.

Many of you might be wondering what do I mean by using past tense to describe our club’s pride and prestige? Well what exactly can I mean after the recent events on and especially off the pitch have redefined our club as a comedy act resembling the antics of Benny Hill, the Muppet Show and Laurel and Hardy. The disgraceful and embarrassing manner in which Moyes and his partner in crime, Edward Woodward conducted themselves during this past transfer window will go down as legend, but for all the wrong reasons. Their dual incompetence, disrespect and naiveté in attempting to buy players has placed United in a very unfamiliar and uncomfortable state.

In all my years I have yet to recall Manchester United or any club for that manner behave in such an idiotic, disrespectful and embarrassingly amateurish manner when trying to negotiate player transfers. Edward Woodward alone should be taken out to the city square and placed in stocks and United fans should be allowed to walk by him, slap him across the face and throw eggs at him. His sheer incompetence and disgraceful lack of etiquette in negotiations with clubs like Everton, Athletic Bilbao and others has me wondering and asking serious questions of intent when it comes to the Glazer family for placing him in a position where he had zero experience and every chance in the world to fail in. The man was the Glazer’s investment banker and was originally hired to advise them in their takeover bid of United. After that he was brought in to run their commercialization of United. He was adept and experienced in signing up major telecom companies, insurance companies, Russian Airlines and Malaysian crisp manufacturers etc, but not football players. As far as football experience and knowledge, he was clueless and you know what folks, it shows.

In the last two months United under the leadership of Moyes and Woodward have laboured and suffered the ridicule and incriminations of millions of supporters of the club as well as those who don’t support United but are laughing themselves silly in the process. We have gone from being the beacon of competence and professionalism that was evident under Sir Alex and David Gill’s tenure to becoming the laughing stock of the football world. Meanwhile all is rosy and wonderful in Florida where the Glazer’s continue to rake in the cash without a solitary concern over the ineptitude that threatens to turn their investment sour in no time at all.

The lack of vision and practical business sense displayed by the owners of this club beckons the question, how in God’s name did these ass clowns ever become multi- millionaires in the first place? Seriously, how can you expect a sports franchise, any sports franchise to succeed and maximize its revenue stream when you do not invest wisely in quality players annually as well as hire competent and highly qualified personnel to run the club at all levels?

Under Sir Alex it was clear that the Glazer’s had simply won the lottery. They were not required to invest much money in player development and yet the club flourished and succeeded on the pitch thanks all to the genius and abilities of Sir Alex. While he was manager the Glazer’s could expect significant investment in the team from merchandising and commercialization because everybody wants to back a winner. But have these Floridian Con artists ever considered a scenario where Fergie was no longer the manager and the victories and trophies all of a sudden dried up. That a drought and slump would incur due to a lack of on field investment that would reverse their fortunes as owners. All of a sudden the salad days were over and the money stopped rolling in because fewer fans were buying merchandise, ticket sales started to diminish and worst of all, sponsors started to close their doors to their approaches. Those are the realities of losing and what long term failure will bring to this club thanks to their narrow vision and lack of scruples. At that point they will seriously consider selling which may seem like a Godsend to most of us, but we have no assurances that they will sell to a top investor who has the best interests of the club at stake. We could only be so lucky to be bought by a owner committed to winning like a Sheikh Monsour or a Roman Abramovich. The reality unfortunately is that the Glazer’s in their spite and bitterness would pawn us off to some other greedy pyramid scheme American ownership group and the whole cycle would begin again. But I digress. This article is about Moyes and Woodward.

Getting back to the dynamic duo, I just cannot and will not ever understand why these two men were ever hired for their positions considering the size, scope and expectations this club has and what their supporters expect? Even more puzzling is why Sir Alex would be so willing to entrust and support David Moyes with something he put 26 years of blood, sweat and tears in to build, only to have an inexperienced and ill suited man come in and destroy it over night? As much as I love and respect Fergie, I just cannot and will not ever understand his willingness to support this fellow Scot and to comply with the demands and limitations the Glazer’s imposed on him during his last years running this club. During that time, not a single disparaging peep out of him questioning the direction this club was taking.

So let’s look back and review the summer and the comedy sitcom that was created during the “Silly Season” . Assurances and promises were made. Under Moyes and Woodward, quality players would be brought in to bolster the defending champions. Moyes was astute enough to realize he needed to improve his midfield and find a replacement for the aging Patrice Evra. He also had to deal with the headache that was Wayne Rooney. The fiasco started with us being linked with Thiago Alcantera. Plan “A” is a great little player with loads of potential but a player I realistically could not see leaving Barcelona unless his mentor Pep Guardiola came knocking. And that’s what happened. Two weeks wasted chasing a ghost and never even placing a bid for fear it would be accepted. Now it was time for Plan “B”, Cesc Fabregas. If there is a definition of an “unrealistic target”, Fabregas fit the bill. A devoted Catalan and life-long Barcelona supporter, he was never interested in leaving and the only thing he got form this interest shown in him was a fat ego and bargaining power for a better contract from Barcelona. How many bids did we put in for him? One, two, three? Regardless, the answer from Barcelona each time was NO and eventually Fabregas put an end to the farce by saying he was flattered but definitely not interested. So what was Moyes and Woodward’s rebuttal to that? Lets waste more time and make another bid.
Those first two Barcelona targets were dismal failures but they pointed out a strategy and motive for United’s transfer season. I have mentioned numerous times on the blog that I believe that United entered this transfer season with virtually no serious money to conduct business on a par with Manchester City, Chelsea, Tottenham and as it showed at the end, even Arsenal. For years now it seemed that Fergie was settling for players that would cost no more than 30 million pounds total. 2011/12 was an exception to that golden rule because it was a year where we got embarrassed on the final day of the season and championship number 20 eluded us and because of that, Fergie demanded a few dollars more from the Glazer’s and purchased Robin van Persie and Shinji Kagawa. Other than that, we seemed to follow that 30 million cap closely.

But now Fergie was gone and the Glazer’s felt no pressure to deliver on promises made and they felt no pressure from Moyes who after all was hired because he was loyal and never rocked the boat when he never got his way financially. So a scheme was concocted. An elaborate ruse and facade designed to keep fans interested and hopeful and to sell the illusion to the rest of the league and world that United were still major players and big spenders , when in reality, nothing was farther from the truth. Simply put, United lied to all of us and mislead us. They created rumour after rumour linking us with players and in the case of players like Fabregas, Modric, Ozil, Khedira, Sneijder, De Rossi, Baines, Fellaini, Coentrao, Herrera, Mata and a few others supposed bids were made. Problem is all those bids were far too low and never came close to the market valuation of those players. The initial 20 million pound bid for both Fellaini and Baines in fact were insulting to not only Everton FC, but any sane, intelligent and devoted fan of football. Considering we ended up paying over 27 million for Fellaini and having a final 20 million bid for Baines turned down shows exactly how low and ridiculously insulting that first bid was.

But the clown act was far from over. Weeks went by and we attempted to insult Real Madrid, Galatasaray, and others with low ball bids for players worth at least twice the amount. Edward Woodward was showing himself to be either a first class Muppet or the evil servant of the Glazer’s performing their bidding, which was to not spend a dime on anyone.

It had become crystal clear that Moyes was not experienced enough in evaluating his needs and his cheap Scottish demeanour would not allow him to splurge a few dollars more and buy quality rather than settle for shite. Woodward was a bull in a china shop. Everything he touched would break due to his incredible incompetence and willingness to insult players and clubs with terrible bids and low salary expectations. Failure after failure followed and most of us were wondering if anyone would be signed?
Moyes was the man who designed the contract for Marouane Fellaini at Everton. He was aware of the 23 million buyout clause yet he ignored it, let it pass by and then in a last minute desperate act spent over 27 million to buy him as the clock was running out just to save face. Sheer lunacy and the act of a man who shouldn’t be in charge of his personal budget let alone that of a first tier football club. But I save the best for last.

For me the coup de grace of this shambolic first two months for both Dave and Woody came on the final day as they seemingly tried to seal two deals before the deadline. Fellaini for me was going to happen so I am not referring to that one. The deals I am referring to were the attempts to sign Ander Herrera from Athletico Bilbao and the loan from Real Madrid of Fabio Coentrao. Now I admittedly know very little about this lad Herrera. But in the last few days of the transfer window United’s interest in this player turned what probably is a “B” talent into a marquee name. After all, if United are after him, he must be good. Funny how a Spanish player that is supposedly world class in the eyes of Moyes and Woodward has not even gotten a wink from Barcelona and Real Madrid over these past months. Ander Herrera is not a world-class talent. In fact he is relatively unknown because he is relatively average to good. His goal scoring record for an attacking midfielder makes Luka Modric’s goal haul seem like Ronaldo’s or Messi’s. Add to that his assist numbers don’t even belong in the same universe as those of an Ozil or Mata. Nevertheless, United saw him, liked him ad it seemed were prepared to make a bid for him despite the fact Bilbao said he was not for sale. The glimmer of hope in signing him however was in the fact he had a buyout clause which stated he could be sold if that 31 million pound was met. Well then Woody and Dave, what are you waiting for. Here is a player who can be bought, who has agreed to come to United and even agreed to a pay cut. And before I continue, consider this. How humiliating is it for a fan of Manchester United when player from a minnow of a club like Athletico Bilbao is forced to take a pay cut if he is to play for the supposed second richest club in the world?

So we all know what transpired by now. We under bid of course and then at the last minute we supposedly matched the buyout number but then reneged on it at the last minute while mysterious negotiators claiming to be United officials attempted to hijack the proceedings. I find it interesting that these individuals would show up in Bilbao and then also see United pull off an unprecedented public relations nightmare by reneging on an agreement to buy. Well that’s how I have heard it anyway. Anybody feel free to enlighten me if things went differently than I am reporting them. United showed and played their hand like amateur poker players who just got fleeced in Vegas. Moyes and company never for a minute had any intention of buying Herrera, unless he was given to them at a bargain price. To renege on an agreed deal and to sight the fact you never agreed to the player valuation is just retarded speak for getting cold hands once your bluff is exposed. And what did this do for Ander Herrera? It left the player swinging in the wind with his dick exposed wondering what the Hell just happened.

That was to be followed by the last minute attempt to wrangle a deal with Real Madrid for Fabio Coentrao. This loan for me might have help salvage the calamitous failure of this transfer season, but even that was not meant to be. Instead United got burned simply because the paperwork involved was too complex to complete in the few minutes they had and once Real Madrid lost out in their pursuit of replacement LB Guilherme Siquierato to Benfica, they stalled and time had elapsed. Simple, you do not wait to get your business done at the last second. Deadlines that are not respected are usually not met. As a model, I lie the club that wraps up its buying in the first week of the transfer window or at the end of the previous season. Why dick around, procrastinate and wait until everybody and the neighbour clues in to your target. Why wait until the end when the player’s price tag increases? Like I said earlier, Edward Woodward should be marched out and placed in stocks and David Moyes should…… well I’ll, reserve my insults for him as I am still committed in giving this man a chance to prove himself and redeem his dwindling reputation. Woodward gets no such consideration or respect. Unlike Moyes who paid his dues with eleven semi successful and loyal years at Everton, Woodward has done nothing and shown nothing to warrant the position he has been granted. Fact is, and this is no joke, I’m more qualified to run the club as are many of our loyal Red Rant members. That alone is a biting indictment on the incompetence and sheer disgracefulness in conduct hat has followed this clown since he took this position as Chief Executive.

The transfer window is closed and with our dreams and aspirations for a highly successful campaign. I cannot get out of my mind that for 42 million pounds we could have bought Mesut Ozil, a playmaker extraordinaire and a world class talent who wanted to come to Old Trafford. Instead we bogged ourselves down for two months pursuing forlorn hopes and lost causes. Despite Moyes’ limited allure and pedigree, there were players like Ozil who wanted to come and play for us. Even Cristiano Ronaldo wants to come back but good luck ever seeing that happen. Yeah right, when I get elected Prime Minister of Canada.

David Moyes has Fellaini and now he has to concern himself with how this club will turn around their fortunes on the pitch. It will be interesting to see just what he does. Will he be his own man for a change and stop walking in Fergie’s shadow or will he make a muck of things like he has up to now? He needs to wake up to the realities of his squad and its limitations as well as it’s positive potential. Good things are waiting to happen if he would only sit down Giggs, Cleverley, Young and Valencia and start playing the youthful super talented players like Adnan Januzaj, Wilfried Zaha and even Jesse Lingard. He has succeeded in stopping Chelsea from raiding us and stealing Rooney and now he needs to get the very best out of Wayne because Sunday’s sad showing against rivals Liverpool showed just how pedestrian and mediocre we are without him in the line-up. We need to make better use of Shinji Kagawa. A splendid little player with creative skills we are presently not utilizing yet are in desperate need of. And finally, I am of the believe and greatly hope that Marouane Fellaini solidifies our midfield by partnering Michael Carrick well and adding some creative elements as well as some physicality and grit. His ability in the air on set pieces should also be a welcome gift. There is nothing else we can do for now and so despite his inadequacy and his show of ineptitude during the summer, we must band behind him and support him even though that element of common sense and logic in our kinds tells us it’s a hopeless endeavour.

I want David Moyes to do well despite his inadequacies for the job. I want Edward Woodward to go straight to Hell or to the Glazer’s mansions in Florida (same thing). Just get as far away from Old Trafford as is humanly possible. David Moyes needs to do well if we are to have any chance of maintaining and keeping this club’s label as a dynasty and slowing down the internal rot the Glazer’s have started. Dave needs to open his mind and wake up to the realities of the situation and with that I pray he finds the courage and resolve to stand up to his employers and for a change have somebody within Manchester United stand up and represent the best interests of the club and it’s millions of loyal and adoring fans. What is presently happening is ugly and will mark this club. Hopefully winning and the spirit it evokes can cover up these scars and allow us to progress in the future until more suitable ownership takes over the club presently being held hostage by greed and unscrupulous criminals. So despite my disappointment and words of foreboding, I say it’s now time to forget the recent past and move forward despite what our minds tell us. Follow your hearts mates, despite the owners and the staff in charge, Manchester United will always belong to the supporters and we will continue to support and sing to the team’s success. We will all survive this regime and the club will one day be freed from this bondage. Even if the road ahead looks long, winding and awfully bumpy.


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No Responses to “The fools on the hill”

  • ‘The transfer window is closed and with our dreams and aspirations for a highly successful campaign.’

    There’s Groggy for you pure class. Calling the season dead 3 weeks in.

    I could load that quote up with vitriol. But it really speaks for itself. For someone that talks so much about give Moyes time and space that takes the cake.

    ‘ I cannot help but recall Sir Alex Ferguson’s plea to all the supporters to stand by our new manager and give him a chance. Fair enough, but it has become evident quite early in his Manchester United career that the man may have bitten off more than he can chew.’

    Right. He wanted desperately to support Moyes. You have to believe him. More than anything, more than the desire to breath and eat he wanted to support Moyes. But it’s been 3 weeks, and no rational personal can now doubt that the Moyes experiment has been a failure. You just can’t. Certainly not with all that beautiful roller coaster imagery. Very evocative.

    ‘We could only be so lucky to be bought by a owner committed to winning like a Sheikh Monsour or a Roman Abramovich.’

    Mhm…. Nods knowingly. Nothing to add that that comment does not scream by itself.

    ‘Getting back to the dynamic duo, I just cannot and will not ever understand why these two men were ever hired for their positions considering the size, scope and expectations this club has and what their supporters expect? Even more puzzling is why Sir Alex would be so willing to entrust and support David Moyes with something he put 26 years of blood, sweat and tears in to build’

    Well Groggy, I daresay you are no Sir Alex Ferguson. Perhaps he sees and knows things that you don’t? His prose may not be so wondrously flowery, but I have heard it said he knows a thing or two about football.

    ‘As much as I love and respect Fergie, I just cannot and will not ever understand his willingness to support this fellow Scot and to comply with the demands and limitations the Glazer’s imposed on him during his last years running this club.’

    Well, considering this man you love and requested asked you to stand by someone, and you made it 3 weeks into a 38 game season, I will leave it to others to do the arithmetic as to how much you loved and respected Sir Alex, I have never been particularly good at math.

    ‘ This loan for me might have help salvage the calamitous failure of this transfer season…’

    Man, someone would look positively silly if Fellaini had a great season and United won silverware after saying that.

    David Moyes should…… well I’ll, reserve my insults for him as I am still committed in giving this man a chance to prove himself and redeem his dwindling reputation.’

    You may not have an understanding of what it means to give someone a chance. So I can help a bit. When Fergie said, give Moyes a chance, he’d didn’t mean, loudly, and insultingly call him a failure 3 weeks into his first season, and then MAGNANIMOUSLY allow him to work his way back into your not at all fickle graces. I believe he meant, support him as you would have supported the man, the legend, the surrogate father Fergie himself, at least for say…. 4 weeks into the season? Yes, I’m sure Fergie meant 4 weeks at least.

    ‘ Yeah right, when I get elected Prime Minister of Canada.’

    Perhaps mayor of Toronto would have job perks more to your liking.

    ‘ There is nothing else we can do for now and so despite his inadequacy and his show of ineptitude during the summer, we must band behind him and support him even though that element of common sense and logic in our kinds tells us it’s a hopeless endeavour.’

    I cannot shake the feeling that you have a basic misunderstanding of several words in the above.

    ‘So despite my disappointment and words of foreboding, I say it’s now time to forget the recent past and move forward despite what our minds tell us. Follow your hearts mates, despite the owners and the staff in charge, Manchester United will always belong to the supporters and we will continue to support and sing to the team’s success. ‘

    Nothing so successfully caps a polemic like an ending of the exact opposite tone and meaning. Brilliant. Very pretty wording.

  • words fail me…..

  • Bloody hell, will you give it a rest….

  • A severe indictment and not a wholly inaccurate one either. It almost goes without saying that this window was, or at least should have been, highly important to Moyes. Not only did he need to strengthen a team which had fallen behind badly against its European competitors and had been kept at the top domestically through Fergie’s personality and will power papering over the cracks, but he needed to show that he could actually land a top player or two. Players who not only would make a difference but who actually were prepared to come to United instead of our rivals. All that has been dashed of course and it is now history. Hopefully lessons will have been learnt. But we have Fellaini so it cant all be bad can it? The key for me now is where he fits in. Alongside Carrick in a holding role perhaps? That would leave Rooney to play the attacking advanced midfield role behind Welbeck and RVP. Alternatively Kagawa in that role with Rooney replacing Welbeck further forward. However, I fear that Fellaini will be put into the hole behind Rooney and RVP with not only Welbeck sitting out but also no place for Kagawa. Over to you Mr Moyes!

  • The club is just too big for Moyes, he decided to sack all men who were behind SAFs, for sure he will fail, we needed some one from with in much as it would take some time, @ 50 I dont think he has alot of time, let him leave us alone.He is mid table manager with his assistants, just look at his transfer targets (Baines, Fellaine) the others coould not accept to work with him. The best we can do is a 5th positions.

    • @pets: I read something about Moyes tonight that bemused me. It’s from a puff-piece in the Guardian that seems to have come from the ghost pen of Ed Woodward himself. This is apparently why we didn’t sign the wonderful Barcelona & Spain playmaker Thiago Alcantara…

      “The issue of Thiago Alcântara also needs clearing up. In his case, it has been portrayed as him snubbing United for Bayern Munich when the truth is actually that Moyes decided he was not entirely comfortable going for the Barcelona player. United had been monitoring him for three years and effectively lined up the transfer but Moyes, as everyone at Everton can testify, likes to have a huge amount of background information on new signings and, having initially gone along with it, decided in the end he did not want to take someone else’s word about a player he had seen infrequently. Again, it boils down to a new manager shopping in a new market, with a limited amount of time.”

      So, as Graham Hunter said at the start of the summer, Sir Alex and United had put in a lot of groundwork on this one, chatting up Thiago and his father for three years and now finally – unbelievably – we were set to prise one of Barcelona’s crown jewels away from them for an absolute bargain price. The player himself even believed it to be a done deal, judging by David De Gea’s famous “see you in Manchester” message.

      Exit Sir Alex Ferguson, enter David Moyes. David Moyes, a man who spent (relatively) big at Everton on Fellaini, Bilyaletdinov, Andy Johnson and James Beattie, wasn’t sure about Thiago’s quality. Let that sink in. The kid who had just captained Spain to the European U21 title, scoring a hat-trick in the final and picking up the player of the tournament award to boot, was deemed not worthy of a “punt” by David Moyes, who would go on to pay almost 30 million for the big unit Fellaini and throw in desperate 30 million bids for Herrera and Khedira just as the transfer window was about to close.

      If that doesn’t make you wonder about Moyes, nothing will.

      • @The Truth: If that story’s true, doesn’t bare thinking about. So all utd’s background information on the player and scouting reports basically ment fuck all. :-x

  • HOw many more times are you going to say or imply the same things?
    I think we’re all somewhat disheartened by the shambles of a summer we’ve had, but at some point we’re going to have to get behind the team and, you know, support them. Its what supporters are meant to do.
    Im as pissed off as anyone, but I’ve said my lot and now ill get behind the boys and believe that they can do it.
    United always do it the hard way. That’s lesson number one when you’re a United fan. Come on, now, anyone fancy writing a positive slant on our great club? No? no?
    Take a look at the positives, eh.

    • Im looking at you Ben. :wink:

      • @BigRed:

        *Rides in on a unicycle with a whiteboard under one arm with which to illustrate happy United facts*

        I aim to please. :wink:

        I can’t wait to see Fellaini in our midfield. That game is stuck in my mind, how he just demolished United. The whole time I just kept thinking, yes, this is what we need. Can you even imagine that, THAT, working behind our strikers, sitting in front of our defenders? It’s an exciting thought. He’s a monster. The things he does, you cannot get anywhere else. Can’t wait to see him giving his all in this side.

        I also can’t wait for Zaha, Nani, and Kagawa to start getting into sides, hopefully the same side. The thought of that type of lineup really makes me smile. Moyes hasn’t played that so far, but it’s early times, and he’s still feeling out his squad. I wouldn’t be stunned if he goes with very conservative squad choices till we clear this 5 game stretch and then really open up the squad selection and start incorporating less proven players. Or, testing those types of lineups in non-league games and working them into the league once he feels he knows what he has. 3 weeks is not a long time to know your squad. There is the preseason yes, but preaseason is nothing, and he has to see this squad in real games. There is nothing surprising about this type of squad selection right now, and it makes a good deal of sense from a ‘find out what you have’ perspective. But I am convinced we’ll see some really aggressive creative sides put out, and I think Moyes will be more inclined to that than Fergie. Time will tell, but it’s got to be an exciting idea for any United fan to see a side like that run out. I think it’s they type of squad we have wanted to see, a slick, fast, attacking, clinical side. Fellaini may be the key to unlock that type of a side.

        The other top teams have big problems. They are going to drop points. Once Moyes gets a good handle on what this squad can do, some great exciting football is going to result.

        Also, the transfer window is over thank god. And none of us have to hear any god damned longer about players we’re linked to, and the just as certain ‘world is ending’ response if United don’t sign them. Now is the time to watch this team go out and give everything. Such a great time in the season. And a new midfielder! Everything ahead of us, still in all the competitions, I love this time of the year. I cannot wait for the weekend. Can’t wait for the beginning of European footy.

        Exciting times.

        As you requested sir :)

        • @Ben: Spot on. Time to sit back and watch how this new Utd era unfolds. Moyes is still learning, and it was always going to be a steep learning curve. You’re right though, he’ll want to get past these first few games safely before being more adventurous. At the moment he’s between a rock and a hard place, he can’t keep everyone happy, so I hope he does his own thing, in his own way. All we can do is support him and the team.

        • @Ben: That’s the spirit! I’m putting all my angst aside for the time being and will get behind the lads to come through this. A very tricky start to the league campaign and I don’t think I’ve given that enough consideration of late.
          I, like you, am really excited about the chance of seeing the most attacking components of the team slowly broken in over the coming months. I’ve had my concerns about Fellaini, about him not really being a United type of player, but he’s here now and there probably is something he can bring to the team. I’m hopeful he’ll be given a deeper more defensive role alongside Carrick. I think the added strength to our back four and centre MF could be very useful. And, if we’re chasing a game with five minutes left he could add a bit of aerial power and physicality to our front line.
          Am glas we didn’t get Ozil or another AM, we have Adnan Januzaj to do that and i’m sure he’ll get broken in over the first half of the season. Jesse Lingaard is another youngster that would have suffered from the arrival of more superstars.
          Add to that, like you say Zaha (that boys got stardust on his boots, i’m sure of it), Nani and surely Kagawa and I reckon we have something very special in the mix.
          We kept Rooney too. Not my favourite to be honest given recent events but the fact remains he is one of our best.
          We have a solid back four and a keeper that could be the best in the world in time.
          So, yes we are being ran by fools in suits upstairs but there is undoubtedly a lot going for the team on the pitch.
          Look back over the history of the Premier League and you will see United do not have a track record of out spending many clubs. Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle, City have all out spent us over the course of the Premier League’s history. But who is top dog? Yes, we are.
          We have a proven track record of playing kids and buying promising players then turning them into superstars.
          So, heads up lads, this is it.
          We may not win the title this year, but i’m looking for other things. Something that would make Sir Matt proud.
          Well said Sir and thank you!
          :wink:

      • @BigRed: Was that a wink? Please, go get a room! :)

  • There really is no point of crying over spilt milk, the deadline has passed. The simple fact is, Fellaini who was never my top choice, is better than what we have. He will provide a physical presence and hopefully more goals to our midfield.
    Moyes now has to take control of his side, stop pandering to Giggs and play his better players, rather than ones he is in awe of. Fergie even in his madder days, would never have played him on the right hand side of midfield.
    Woodward is the real villain of the piece, we all know that. Lets give Moyes time, so far like many, I am not impressed. But after Fergie, I have been amassed in Stockholm syndrome, anyone wouldn’t have been a jot on the great man. But Moyes will only get better, the more relaxed he gets in his surroundings, the braver he will become. He has to get out of the Everton mentality of not wanting to lose. The Manchester United way, is to always try and win. Be brave, risk losing in order to win. Draws do not win trophies, shame Mulensteen isn’t still on the coaching staff because I feel he would have been a great help.
    It is another International break, so tend to look backwards, but lets not be Liverpool and forge on.

    • @Stephen: Agree with the point about Mulensteen.would of been a major asset during the first few months while moyes found his feet. Obviously he had his own reasons for leaving for Anzi, still a loss we could of done without.

  • Abramovic and Sheik Mansour are not simnply “committed to winning”, they are committed to laundering the reputation of their home nations through british institutions. Ambramovic is protecting his assets by using Chelsea to distract from the criminal way in which he came to be so incredibly wealthy, i.e. stealing his countries natural resources. Mansour is doing to the same thing to distract from his nations appalling human rights record, where torture and imprisonment without trial is commonplace.
    Don’t be so simplistic in your descriptions of these monsters.

    • @BigRed: I was talking football, not politics.

      • @Grognard: Hmmm, you sound a little like The Sun newspaper. You can’t talk about the money City and Chelsea spend without recognising or acknowledging where the money comes from and WHY its being spent.
        The bigger picture is the whole picture. To look at things in isolation is to miss the point Grog.

  • The thing that sadden me is not David Moyes you know. Its the people in charge of buying the players. David Moyes wanted to strengthen our midfield and i support him for this but the people in charge of purchasing the players is so amateur that its so funny.

    The manner at which our summer transfer window has gone in a way that i never know it will happen and the world of football is laughing their ass off. I really hope some competent people come in and replace that missing plane Ed who went on holiday for more than 2 months.

    Its sad that i have to complain this much but we complain because we do care for this club. No matter how much dislike and complains i have, i will still go back to support this club, its just the venge in me that i have to let out.

  • For me, id evaluate how moyes is progressing with regards the team and tactics after the jan transfer window. By then he’d of had enough time to bed himself in and get an idea of how he intends to take the club forward with tactics, who he fancies and who he doesn’t etc.Does he want to make an imprint on this club with his own vision and ideas or just try copy a tried and trusted formula for success. This is the best chance moyes is gonna get to prove he can hack it at the highest level, so I hope he’s gonna make use of everything available to him, not just go for the easy option where players are concerned. Just hope he makes the Wright decisions, because it’s not just his reputation at stake. We’ve been spoilt with success during the saf years, so I think most fans won’t expect miracles during this transition period. All I’d say to moyes is use this period of transition wisely because fans won’t be so forgiving if you appear to be taking this club backwards. Let’s see some fresh ideas.
    With regards the transfer side, seems to me you’re showing either naivety or arrogance where player recruitment is concerned. To me it’s obvious at this sort of level you need assistance and your not getting it from the clown prince woodenhead.I read somewhere that the best investment spurs made this summer was the recruitment of Franco Baldini.Obvious to see why. Compare how he’s gone about recruiting the best players available to that of kinnear at Newcastle. There’s obviously good and bad in every job, that’s why I’ve mentioned them two. Someone with the connections and pulling power of a Baldini to work in tandem with moyes would be perfect scenario. I just hope we learnt our lessons in this window because our standing and credibility in reference to our transfer dealings can’t be much lower than it is at the moment.

  • Thanks Ben, faith in the future duly restored ….the original poster had a couple of decent points tbf but between the righteous indignation, the melodramatic call to arms, the hyperbole and soporific effect of reading 4 pages of waffle I shan’t be seeking out any more examples of his ultra negative in a hurry…although it takes a special talent to invoke the spirit of the French Revolution with the florid prose of Barbara Cartland

  • Thanks Ben, faith in the future duly restored ….the original poster had a couple of decent points tbf but between the righteous indignation, the melodramatic call to arms, the hyperbole and soporific effect of reading 4 pages of waffle I shan’t be seeking out any more examples of his ultra negative divisiveness in a hurry…although it takes a special talent to invoke the spirit of the French Revolution with the florid prose of Barbara Cartland

  • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

    Think we are all pissed off at the minute. The assurances that we had lots of money and would compete for top players did of course not validate themselves meaning an embarrassing first transfer window under the new regime.
    Moyes needs to be given time and appears to have lacked support above as the Glazers penny pinch. The only concern on the part of Moyes being Evertons nickname of “Dithering Dave” when it comes to transfers.
    Lets not forget Gill and SAF cocked up many a transfer but that history appears to have taken on a rose-tinted angle everywhere I go. Ronaldinho anybody?!
    This public beating, you’d envisage, will mean that we’ll go into the next two transfer windows in the correct manner and identify and purchase the required players. Satisfy the supporters, if you’d like. like the Gooners have done with Ozil.
    However, although not one of the WC players I happen to think our new big man will do well for us. His sheer physical presence on the pitch means Moyes will have more confidence in playing the likes of Kagawa, Zaha and the young uns. Providing that’s the case then I’m happy that we’ll continue to reside near the top.
    More energy, more creativity should be the way forward and not a reliance on a 39 year old legend, a backwarding going Clevers, Young and Valencia.
    One more tricky game at City and then a relativity decent run upto Xmas with the gooners at home and Spurs away sd yield plenty of points and leave us in a strong position going into 2014.

  • Pardon me for this giant……
    ——————————–
    I’ve been feeling this itching need to contribute to the great flood of analysis and blogging on Man Utd – ever since Fergie retired and this seemingly epic transfer window transpired. I must have consumed every article on news now over the last two months.

    While on most days it was an emotional roller coaster as my insides were tugged here-and-there by passion for the club on one hand and the rationale that I am but a single human far far away with a life to get on with…and with no bearing on what happened, is happening or will happen at the club. An ant in an anthill. A red rant from a red ant.

    – Transfers. Once it sunk into me that Moyes just simply had nothing managerially to attract the world’s top players, it was (first shocking) fairly easy to digest the string of refusals and other difficulties in landing those that SAF would have landed with one stick of gum. Simply put, even next season, players will come to what Manchester United stood (past tense) for and its legacy. No one is going to come because of our manager. Add Woodward to that, and it is evident that we’ve gone right back to kindergarten in many ways, as far as the club is concerned. (This is a genuine problem SAF or the club could have foreseen)

    – Our Squad & Tactics. I’m not going to rehash but most people know about our squad, but I noticed some general misconceptions. Firstly, our left-back Evra does not need immediate replacing. He’s worse than he was, but what he still has is still needed and will still do. The only thing that got me going about Baines was if Moyes used him as a left midfielder pumping in Beckhamesque crosses quickly and simply. Our left would be a service flank, all defense and pinged crosses. Persie would love it.

    Secondly, just as bad as our midfield are our wings. Young is crap for this level. He cannot take on, dribble, cross or finish well enough a winger and is often atrociously poor. Nani is at best a few great flashes in the pan. I highly doubt Valencia will be the kind of guy he was two seasons ago. And then Zaha, the one great hope who Moyes will slowly bed in, too slow to even think about right now. Kagawa, Rooney and Welbeck would fill in, but cant be counted on or looked at as Wingers. Kagawa is meant for the centre. Put him on the wing and you’ve limited all his creativity to one side of the crayon box.

    Overall, we have no wingers who can cross well, go past their man (with a dribble or push) reliably, or pose a goal threat. Our wings are more mediocre that they have ever been so that will affect our service through this season. Yet this doesn’t seem to be an issue much taken up.

    Compare this to the fact that in midfield, we do have Carrick who is genuinely near world-class in his position…so at least one player you can count on for the season (fingers crossed). Then cleverley…who although is rather poor, is like Valencia for midfield. You can expect a decent minimum. Giggs (who should never play on the wing again, and if in the centre, then never for more than one half of a game) Anderson and maybe Fletcher. So midfield if anything, really lacks personnel, for which we now have Fellaini, which is good.

    We are a club that always plays down the wings and as long as our midfield was just good enough to get the ball to them, this was fine. Our midfield now is good enough to get the ball to the wings and shield the defense, but the wings are crap. In the Liverpool game, there were umpteenth chances down the wings which collapsed in Young or Valencia or Nani’s poor play. This is where we will lose out this season, if we do. Without Kagawa in the mix (hopefully Moyes will not dissappoint), there is no filter for the crap on the wings.

    – Moyes. My mind is torn about him. Pros and cons aside, there is no getting around that the man has never won trophies and has never come close to writing history. It would have been a great signal of intent if he won at Anfield for his first time ever. But he failed to put his balls on the line when he could have. I fear he will repeatedly take this cautious route when United get into those must-win should-win games. Unbelievable for someone who has so much Premier League experience.

    Also the fact that he stuck with Young and Giggs for as long as he did in that game shows a marked lack of flexibility. He is clearly not a guy who takes his chances. I also dont see him tactically outwitting any of the big ones in crunch matches. If Martinez, Rodgers, Lambert, AVB, Mourinho are promising or great today, it is because they did something they should not have been able to do in their position – they won big things with small teams. Moyes never did. HE thinks he’s doing his best in a tough job…..well shit, lets be honest, he could not have it easier. He has a great squad of hungry players, champions league football for his first time ever, all the backing and support he needs…show some ambition man!

    Some say it is too soon. But what are the signs of hope? If he doesn’t win the league this year or the next no biggie. But its not like he plans on building anything major or to walk the unbeaten path. He is unheard of in Europe so that already is a mountain to climb, forget the champions league. And I don’t see how a winner (if he is one) sits with a club for 11 years without progress. Its like Wenger without the philosophy or reputation.

    Since Moyes has no reptuation to speak of he cannot attract the great or the most promising players to Man Utd. To build that reputation he has to do win with that he has. But his history at Everton and his seeming lack of tactically bravery or creativity means he may not ever be able to win with what he has. So we have a catch-22 with Moyes where we’re stuck with a manager who’ll stick with us, but might not take us anywhere. This is why I am amazed Ferguson went for him as opposed to someone like Klopp. What does Moyes build? After 11 years at Everton, can anyone tell me what he stands for? What is his vision for the club? He has to come down assertively with his plan for Man Utd. He has to impose himself and take the lead in this post Ferguson era…not simply hope and fret that the cart isn’t upset.

    Moyes, You can’t outdo Ferguson, but act like you plan to outdo yourself at least!
    —————————–
    …….outpouring.

    • @RedAF:

      There are just a host of suppositions there that as you say, it’s too early to make.

      Zaha will play a part this season. He’s ready. Nani is not flash in a pan. He’s a brilliant lad who’s been inconsistant at times, and most of that I put to the squad selection, and putting it on his shoulders to improve unambitious, non-creative sides. It doesn’t work. You can’t play older, slower, less conservative players, and then toss on 1 creative player and demand they somehow take over a game. It’s a team sport. That boy Giggsy has magik on the bench. We’ll see squad selection change, we’ll see players get worked in. It’s 3 weeks in. You cannot possibly say who won’t play a part in the squad 3 weeks in.

      ‘He has to come down assertively with his plan for Man Utd. He has to impose himself and take the lead in this post Ferguson era…not simply hope and fret that the cart isn’t upset’

      Okay. It’s been three matches. If he had won all three convincingly, as happy as people would be, most everyone would still say, ‘it’s too early to say he’s stamped his image on this team’. And those people would be right. It is literally impossible for Moyes to have ‘imposed himself’ on this team in a quantifiable, objective way in three weeks. If we must criticism Moyes, we should probably keep the criticisms to things it’s actually possible for him to have succeeded at, not bemoaning the fact that he has not done something it is impossible for him to have done in this timeframe. You’re on record saying you cannot imagine Moyes doing that in the future. I’m not so certain. Moyes will leave some impact. He’ll leave some image. But it’s not going to happen in the next week, or even the next month.

      When Fergie came in, he didn’t do any major business to start his first season. He wanted an entire season to assess his squad. I think that is fair. I really think a manager should have that type of space, and freedom from criticism, one whole season to assess. Season 2 they start moving, they start building, and by season 3 you should be seeing something approaching their completed vision, you should be seeing something of their grand scheme for how they want the team to play. Had you looked at Fergie, three games into his tenure, you could have said this exact same thing. This bloke Fergie doesn’t mean to do anything. He has no plans. I can’t see him doing anything big and meaningful. That’s true. And you wouldn’t have, and with Moyes, you probably won’t.

      I imagine Moyes knows how little United fans want to hear, ‘I need a season to fully acclimatize to the squad before I am certain what I have, and what I need’.

      None of that is to say that Moyes doesn’t have big plans for United, that he doesn’t have big ambitions. Nobody gets to that level of football without wanting, dreaming, and pursuing with everything they have to attain their Champions League dreams. I find it insulting to say someone that loves football, that loves managing as much as Moyes does, simply doesn’t care about winning trophies. It beggers belief.

      Moyes wants to give everything for this club, and he wants to win everything for this club, and you’re not going to see all of that happen right now, in front of you, and succeed immediately. It’s not reasonable. It’s not what Fergie does. It’s now what teams that value stability do.

      Now is the time to watch. Now is the time to see Moyes begin. And that’s very exciting when you understand that, this is a man finding out what he has, finding his way to become United’s manager. I can’t say whether Moysie’s grand plans and visions will succeed, but I know I am very excited to see him start his moves, to start his plans, to move from assessing, to building, to running at full speed. It’s great to know the squad we start that process with is so strong, and it’s great that we’ve picked up a midfielder that we need. Now we get to watch. I can’t wait.

    • @RedAF: Some valid points Red, but 3 games is far too soon to judge Moyes as the Utd manager. Yes transfer window did not meet our expectations, but there again Fellani is the first MF purchase for 5 years! That’s progress! The team Moyes is playing is Fergie’s team – both the good and the bad. Moyes didn’t bring in Young, Valencia, Giggs, Cleverley, Welbeck et al – he inherited them as 1st team players from Fergie who managed to squeezed every last drop of productivity out of relative mediocrity over the last couple of seasons.

      Moyes thus has limited proven options and while I for one would give him latitude to have a clear out of the dead wood and play the youngsters now, others would not & I can understand Moyes playing it safe at first (until he realizes this is not actually gaining us any more points than taking some risks!). Yes I would like to see much more Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha and I hope we soon do. But let’s see what his first choice XI looks like a year from now and I think we’ll be in a better position to see where things are heading. If Giggs, Young, Valencia etc are still featuring on a regular basis then yes, I too will be concerned.

    • @RedAF: Like really. Where have you been my whole life.

      You said it so succinctly. Moyes has no special qualities except his ability to work damn hard. Thats what Ferguson fell for; his work ethic.

      Warren Buffet said diversifying is only for people who don’t know what they’re doing. Much in the same way Moyes’ fear of upsetting the apple cart is more about him not having a clue than it is about him showing respect to the established order at United.

      Moyes has next to zero tactical clout at this level. Based on what I have seen of him so far, the guy is a bonehead.

      He is making the kind of decisions that he would make at a club like Everton. The problem with that is that United is not a club like Everton. He needs to grow some balls and go for the kill. Otherwise I hope he’s outta here in two seasons time.

      I hope Jürgen Klöpp is watching and plotting a career path that leads to united. This is the perfect club for Klöpp. Moyes is not a top level manager.

      I wouldn’t mind Manuel Pellegrini either to be honest.

      Loved your rant mate.

      You made my day.

  • How many times a day do you wash your hands, Grog? :lol: Seriously, it’s time to leave what was a shambles of a transfer window behind and look forward to the coming games. We might not have got everything we want, but we did get something, and let’s face it, Fellaini is an improvement. There will be time during the January transfer window to get back on the soap boxes if needs be. Utd have always been at their best with backs against the wall. Give Moyes a little more time to find his best team and hopefully we’ll be away and challenging. The season is like a long play, exciting bits, boring bits, times when we’ll all be on the edge of our chairs and no doubt times when we’ll be shouting, swearing and cursing. The point is you can’t judge a play at the beginning, only at the end. At the moment I’m still willing to believe the ending will be a happy one.

    • @red astair: When I submitted this article I told Ian it would be my last simply because I too was fed up and tired of it all and wanted to go back and just concentrate on football. I just wanted one last moment to vent my spleen and show my frustration.

      • @Grognard: Well, I hope it’s only your last article for a while. It would be a great loss if you stopped writing completely, mate. Anyway, enjoy the season.

  • I don’t think that Moyes has destroyed Ferguson’s 26 years of work over night. So I think you’re being a bit dramatic there. But he sure has put a nice little dent in the image this club enjoyed under Sir Alex.

    I can’t imagine that we are as respected and as revered now as when we were under Ferguson, especially after Moyes’ world class dithering. Couple that with they manner in which we lost against Liverpool and the despereation and lack of composure displayed by our players that day and I can imagine a lot of the people who loathe United have a big fat grin plastered across their sorry mugs.

    What I am most disappointed about is the fact that Ander Herrera and Fabio Coentrao were realistic targets and we fluffed our lines badly on both those two.

    Why was Moyes not determined a month ago to sign Fellaini for £23.4m, Herrera for £31m and Coentrao on loan?

    His dithering on these three footballing decisions is inexcusable. Moyes has 9 years of premier league experience. He should know better.

    Gary Nevllie said it last year; The guys who are still doing their transfer business at the last minute of the last day of the window don’t know how to run a football club.

    It is a serious indictment on David Moyes. This is not the kind of short coming Ferguson told us to abide patiently. Its gross incompetence on the part of the manager.

    The indictment: Indecisive!!!

    And we all know how that quality is a key ingredient in all good leaders. All the top managers in the world all exhibited this hallmark of success and excellence: Indecision.

    Moyes’ inability to make decisions also fills me with lots of hope and optimism for the future.

    • @The_Philosopher: The problem was that they were hell bent on getting Fabregas. He was the main target, however unrealistic as it turned out,and this is where the money part comes in. We were given to understand that there was no specific budget and Moyes could go out and get whomever he wanted. Neither Fellaini nor Herrera were first choice. When the Fabregas deal started to become bogged down they started to look elsewhere eg Thiago, Ozil and Modric. Had they got any of those and paid over the odds – maybe 40m – 50m – then there would not have been sufficient over for Fellaini and Baines. They did test the water with 28m for both in the hope that were Everton to agree, then there would (might) be sufficient cash over for one of the main targets. I think probably 60m – 65m was what they had as a budget. Talk about being caught between the proverbial stools!

      • @Julian: Where this all starts getting a bit farcical is, common knowledge now that utd was offered ozil approx 4 weeks ago for around €42 million .Utd’s responce was they weren’t interested in the player and certainly not at the price quoted.Fast forward to deadline day and we’r trying to hijack Arsenal’s deal for ozil, the same player we had no interest in 4 weeks previous! .That’s just total desperation in anyone’s book.And people wonder why we lack credibility.

  • The latest rumour is that Ferguson had a deal in place for Garay but Moyes pulled the plug. Presumably because he felt Baines was the defender we needed.

    There is a bit more clarity on the Herrera deal (Source: Daily Mail)

    Moyes insisted yesterday the pursuit of Herrera ended because he simply considered the £30.5million fee too high, saying: ‘I really liked the player and still do. We were trying to do a deal but I just thought the buy-out figure was the wrong valuation.’

    So there you have it!

    Moyes really liked the player but because of a £5M difference in valuation pulled the plug.

    Presumably Moyes liked Fellaini so much he felt the buy-out figure was too low so waited till the last day to pay £3.5M more than that!

    You do not need to be a maths genius to realize that had we moved for Fellaini at the end of July and started negotiations for Herrera sooner we could have probably landed him for £28M as the player wanted to join us.

    • @colver: That ideology would have entailed a throughout plan. We entered the transfer window with a shambolic system which involved a scatter gun approach. We simply had one real target, Fabregas. The rest of the plan was made up as we went along. Moyes looks out of his depth and needs his hand held. The problem is the man doing it is a buffoon and even more clueless.

      • @Stephen: you made me think of Fawlty Towers when Mr. Fawlty hits Manuel in the head and they leave out the door holding hands and looking like Man-Monkey pair. The difference between that image and United is that Woodward (the monkey) is leading our transfers while Moyes (the Man) is being led.

    • @colver: To pull the plug for 5m when he was your last realistic hope of getting someone half decent is absurd. Or is it what might be described as an “Evertonian mindset”. Mind you it gives further credence to the theory that they were working to a budget whose cap was probably in the region of 50m – 55m.

      • @Julian: My guess is that the decision was not as black or white as just “5 million.”

        Moyes is known for his analytic way to football, ranking potential players and thinking forward 2-3 years.

        Just one question: why wouldn’t Moyes wait until January (3 months from now) to get Herrera?
        — He is not in Champions League so can join in January for knock-out round,
        — his buy-clause doesn’t change his “value”,
        — he is interested in joining United
        — he gets playing time at Bilbao.

        Sure, we lose HAVING Herrera available for team selection for 3 months, but his impact would be limited and I think he (and United) are actually better off by waiting.

    • @colver: With regards garay, think it all depends which source you wanna believe. The most common one I read was that a fee in principle had been agreed. Utd pulled the plug when, for whatever reason, Benfica upped the asking price from £17 mill to £21 mill.Always seems Portuguese clubs are notoriously difficult to negotiate with, so seems to me that’s what probably happened.

  • 2 factual errors.
    Fellaini cost United £23.5m the extra £4m is cost of his bonus which Everton no longer need to pay, so the ‘value’ to Everton is £27.5m which they reported.
    Barca bid for Herrera earlier in the summer. As they were allowed to talk to him they must have offered the buy-out figure. The player turned it down because he felt that Barca had so many midfielders he would not get regular games.
    Otherwise your rant is at least consistent with previous efforts. I doubt anyone , including Moyes and Woodward is anything other than unhappy and frustrated with events. But that’s life, you learn and move on. Its only a few months before the transfer pantomime reopens, hopefully United will be very careful to make a better fist of things next time. The media has loved making the most of United’s problems to put the most pressure on Moyes. People like you make their job so much easier. What Moyes and the players need now is support without pressure.

    • @JW:

      There is a whole lot of stuff that you can overreact to in footballing. You can overreact to individual results, to squad selection, to transfer window. The fallacy for all of this overreaction is generally the same: Why, if this happened every time, or most times then we would be facing a disaster! And close on it’s heels, is the assumption that we will based on the fact of a sample size of a couple of events.

      There are so many examples of that thinking in this article. One transfer window under Moyes and Woodward, and it is airily supposed this is what it will be every time.

      3 games in, and to some, they have seen all they have to see about squad selection.

      I don’t think it’s necessary to explain why that type of thinking is not effective. It’s self evident. The evidences in football tend to take longer than 3 game stretches to discover. You could examine last season by three game stretches, and with such a tight focus, you could make a case for practically every club in the league winning it. It’s not 3 game stretches that matter, it’s 1 38 game stretch. Not that you can’t go smaller than 38 games, a dozen is probably a good sample size to start with.

      Point is, whatever it is in footballing, if you take a very small number of events, over a very tight frame of time, you can get very upset and concerned by then extrapolating that into infinity. And truly it is not necessary. It’s not effective. I think everyone wants to be the first one to see something. Alright. But the above method is very flawed, and good analysis is more often backward looking than forward, and that happens to be for a reason.

      Then there is the rage and certainty as a result of such thinking. I would say it adds a certain power to the prose, but at the cost of being either a patronizing condescension, or a blustering demand. Don’t believe this the anger yells, and you are simply a fool without critical thinking faculties.

      The transfer window looked bad, I will agree. But there are a hell of a lot of generalizations, and if it neatly skirts directly saying a load of predictions, they are inherent in the rage, and the insults. And they’re predictions. All the anger, all the rage, over this certainty that things will go exactly as he thinks. Maybe they won’t. Maybe they will. Since however the data points lay in the future, the only thing to do is wait for them.

      Are there things that could go well for United? Yep. There sure are. Are there ways that United could thrive, and get silverware? Yep. Absolutely. If we’re now down to POSSIBILITIES, airily fighting our future notions against each others like broken oracles, then surely we must allow the possibility of United doing well. And if we are asked to go forward, I am very confident there are as many reasons to be optimistic about the performance on the pitch, and actually much more, than there are reasons to be pessimistic about the team on the pitch.

  • Januzaj
    United have announced the CL squad. One name missing! Even Will Keane is in the list and he hasn’t kicked a ball yet this season.
    I do hope this does not indicate problems with his contract renewal negotiations, not another Pogba, please!

    • @JW: If that happens, heads should roll, simple as that. Can’t believe utd would let that scenario happen again. Surely not :evil:

    • @JW: Sounds a little worrying. I thought a 5 year contract had been agreed. Let’s hope it’s just an oversight.

      • @red astair: Apparently any player from list B can be added to list A before midnight on the eve of the CL game. Still, looking at some of the players on list A, it’s a puzzle why Januzaj has been omitted.

        • @red astair: It cannot be an oversight. Perhaps he’s going out on loan or there’s a problem with the new contract. Do we really need this on top of recent events?

        • @red astair: Why a puzzle? The boy has not played a first team game yet. How can you feel so desperate about the squad that you get upset when a reserve player is omitted from the CL sheet??

        • @red astair: Redrich – I think you’re missing the point, no-one is desperate about the squad, just questioning Januzaj’s ommission.

  • Everton’s director of communications says we are paying £27.5M for Fellaini.

    I very much doubt we will go back in for Herrera in January. Moyes has made it perfectly clear he does not think the player is worth the buy out clause and Bilbao aren’t going to sell for less. Plus I am sure the player is pretty pissed off at us for leading him on and pulling the plug at the final minute. I still maintain Herrera was just a back up plan in case we could not land Fellaini.

    • @colver:

      It’s hardly a crisis if we miss out on herrera. Perhaps in January he’ll want a CM, and I he’ll have months of results both from his team and of possible targets narrowing down who he will want to buy. I’m sure between now and January the target list will be revised several times.

      • Herrera isn’t cup-tied for the CL, most of the other targets will be. Barca wanted him to be back-up for Busquets and potentially replacement for Xavi, not a bad recommendation.

        • @JW:

          Generally I am not a believer in looking at a position, and saying ‘this player is the one!’, implying that everyone else wouldn’t be good enough.

          I look on it as a spectrum between fitting into the squad, and not fitting into the squad. Herrera would be a a good fit for us. And I do think he’s good enough. But he’s not the only player we could say that about. In the next 3 months I would expect to hear about midfielders I have never heard about before stepping up, taking their chances in new squads, and getting recognized. Football moves very fast, you miss a player 1 transfer window, by the next one there is a new batch of up and comers. It would be nice to have Herrera, but I have no doubts that by January Barca, and Borussia Dortmund, and other clubs astute and pulling great young talent will have new players they will be looking to pick up, and so will we. Not to take anything away from the lad, I’d like to see him play for United, but not to the exclusion of all other midfielders.

  • An interesting piece.Thanks.in all fairness,I wouldn’t place all that much blame at Moyes’ doorstep.the gigantic transition from (to quote Grognard)a sad sack outfit to reigning prem champions cannot be easy at all.plus he has SAF as his predeccesor,which is like Robin trying to be Batman.as for his handling of the transfer window,I would give him 4/10.he gets 4 because I don’t believe that he has all that much say with how much money may be spent.for that he gets 2.the other 2 he obtains as a result of bringing Fellaini over from Everton.now,I’ll get serious.Mr.Woodward gets 0/10.Firstly,he talked a good jive all summer but failed abbysmally to back it up when it mattered most.Secondly,even in signing off on Fellaini,he wasted an extra 4 Million pounds when he could have sanctioned the deal whilst his clause was still active!bad accounting dude.Thirdly,his tardiness with the failed Fabregas,Coentrao,Herrera,Thiago Khedira and Ozil bids leaves a bitter aftertaste in my mouth.he made United look like fools.for that he deserves class treatment from the Red Army & The Men In Black!Lastly,we all know he is the Glazers new lapdog,so we know he only has their interests at heart.if he even has one.Woodward is the culprit in this sad story of ineptitude and tardiness.We are being buried under the avalanche of his inadequacies.God bless the day when the Australian Football Union appoint his as their Chief Financial Officer and we get to see the back of this douchebag.

  • A technical director would definitely be a good thing.

    Moyes is great at the man management stuff and the coaching side of things but seems out of his depth in the transfer market. Having someone with a broad knowledge of European football identify potential targets for him could only be a good thing. Moyes would get the final say of course but at least we would move more decisively and have someone provide the occasional reality check.

    It makes no sense to have a commercial director such as Woodward who clearly has no knowledge of football and not have a technical director as well.

  • The link below is to an article today in the Guardian. It doesn’t explain everything, but goes a long way.
    As usual most of the ‘noise’ has been an invention of the media. Its been ‘open season’ on United since Fergie’s retirement, we shouldn’t be surprised, just disappointed that people who profess to be United fans join in on the bandwagon.
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/04/manchester-united-ander-herrera-transfer-farce

  • Proof positive that it’s just not me who is disenchanted. This has me very worried.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/336543/Robin-van-Persie-and-David-Moyes-hit-skids

    • Nobody said you were the only one disenchanted. If anything, the majority of the braying on forums and blogs is how awful things are.

      Which makes any type of sober assessment that much more rare.

      Bleg. Van Persie is fine. I don’t buy that article for a second. Oh, Van Persie’s friend said he’s unhappy. I guess everyone should panic now because 1 paper quotes one unnamed source to say Van Persie is frustrated. I daresay say if he could weather 8 years of Arsenal and be productive and great he’s capable of weathering 3 weeks of Moyes.

      It is unneeded to do this hypervigilent exploration of every player, every situation day by day to find some proof to back up the idea that everything is awful.

      You have to have more in your bag than that Groggy. Searching so hard for the doom and gloom, but even for you that is quite slim pickings. You could of course go back to extolling the awesomeness of Citeh and Chelsea.

      Let’s see. It’s a strong squad. It’s been strengthened. And in a couple months time we’ll be able to see what Moyes is up to, start to get an idea of how things are going. But this is just laughably early to be concocting crisis.

      • I, too, will say “amen” to the botched transfer window, however, it did happen and as much as we want it to go away, it won’t.
        It is now part of United lore – as much as the selling of Ronaldo, the winning of the 68 European Cup and the Munich air disaster.
        Because it’s bad doesn’t make it a bad thing to embrace, it’s just another layer in the way you feel about the club.

        The predictions of doom (which I hold in MY head) or the feeling that we are still good enough to win (which some of you hold in your heart), will be proven out over the course of the next 6 months.

        I’m excited to be along for the ride, but I’m buckled in real tight this season.

  • Does United need a “director of football operations”? I say, absolutely.
    Who really is there to make a “football” decision about the club other than Moyes, and his new coaches? Who is making judgement calls on Moyes’ performance, other than the media?

    EW is a ” “, fill it in folks – your choice of cuss words, but regardless of what you think of him, is he smart enough about the game to excel at getting Moyes his players. I think not. There needs to be a “football executive” in between him and the Manager, a person that can mediate the needs of the team to the Owners. EW is not that man nor will he ever be.
    Be interesting if anyone has any ideas on names. Can I say “David Beckham”.

    • @Ben: Will you end with the constant attacks on every fucking thing I say. There are others on this blog who have views to, and many echo mine but with you it’s Groggy this and Groggy that. Your vendetta against me is tiresome mate. Every God damned word I use is over analyzed and dissected and multiple meanings come out for you. “DISENCHANTED” means disenchanted and I have the right to feel that way without you insisting that I am not allowed to do so.
      How about you give it a rest because I am starting to get way more than just pissed off. I will say and express myself as I feel and you are not in any position to censor what I say provided I do not insult or swear at people in your classic manner. My views are about United, not the members on this blog. United is an open book and they are open to any kind of scrutiny that people want to level on them. So put your police badge and night stick away and give it a rest. You will not shut me up and I won’t shut you up for you views either, provided they are about United and football, and not me or others on this blog. I have way more in my bag than you have even fantasized mate. If I choose to be “hypervigilent” in my analysis and exploration about the club I support, that is my right and you sir, are way out of line to tell me or anyone how to support, who we support and when. Try being nice for a change. It might do you some good. Agree or disagree but show some class and some tolerance for other people’s views.@Redrich:

      • Groggy, you have the freedom to bring a patently empty, pointless fluff piece, with 1 single anonymous source, vaguely suggesting possible frustration in Van Persie. Yes Groggy, you have the freedom to link that article, and shout to the world how scared and upset that article makes you feel. That’s your right.

        And it’s my right to say gee, feels like a light substance-less article. It’s my right to say, that in a search for confirmation of your own biases, even for you, this is a remarkably feeble attempt which bears up under absolutely no scrutiny.

        • @Ben: You are a hopeless cause. From now on I suggest for both our sakes that you just ignore what I write. It’s that simple. Your feeble attempts to silence me will not work. Should you continue to insult me and belittle my efforts, will force me to speak with Ian. I do not want to do that. Respect and tolerance mate. I can live with your views, despite my strong disagreement with them, I suggest then that you do the same. I don’t give a rats ass what you think of me or my views. :roll:

        • @Ben: patently empty, pointless fluff piece light substance-less article, confirmation of your own biases, remarkably feeble,
          You have to have more in your bag than that Groggy,
          Searching so hard for the doom and gloom, but even for you that is quite slim pickings, article is extremely thin, bordering on completely meaningless, point out how thin and basically useless that article is.

          And that just comes from two of your replies to me. I would have to write hundreds of replies to come up with that many personal insults to anyone else. Call me a hypocrite all you want but nobody has issue with me insulting or belittling them. They may have great disagreements with my views and that’s fine, provided they offer theirs or at least disagree in an adult and cultured manner, and not like you. Your personal attacks are not welcome, not appreciated and I kindly ask you to avoid doing them in the future. You say you enjoy this blog? How exactly, by making it a nightmare for others like myself? God what I would give to meet you face to face. LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE. IGNORE MY WRITINGS, ASSUME I DON’T EXIST. And I can offer you the same courtesy. :-x :-x

    • @Redrich: Red, we definitely need a football director but my worry is that even with one, the same inactivity in the transfer market will continue due to the ownership. I am willing to be proven wrong on this but until it happens, I will go with past history and the lack of player purchases over the past four years. Hell Spurs bought more players this month than we have since Ronaldo was sold. Perhaps we didn’t need as much help as them but I still think we have been slow to improve the club while sticking with dead weight players like Anderson for way too long. And yes Spurs spent a 100 million because of the Bale sale but then all I have to say is that Valencia for Ronaldo strengthens my argument.

    • @Redrich: Beckham would be last choice. For me the idea of a Director of Football is very sensible, as Woodwood couldn’t direct traffic.
      The most obvious contender, who can actually communicate, unlike Beckham would be Cantona. He is quite bright and would be a pull for foreign players. Fergie would be a the best option, but we need to allow Moyes to row his own boat without the spectre of the great man looming over him.
      The club at the moment looks like a rudderless ship, with Gill and Fergie at the helm, we had direction and a structure. Currently we have none. For the first time in many years the club looks a mess and this has to be a concern.

      • @Stephen: Cantona already has experience doing that work for the New York Cosmos. Not comparable I know but allure and being able to talk to agents and players as well as clubs and be respected is key. Funny but Beckham has achieved a great reputation around the world and is well liked. He could do the job provided others told him what talent to pursue.

      • @Stephen: DB is a very, very, good businessman, mate. He has amassed a fortune over the years and that will attract the Glazer power trust AND good players. A rudder that will not just steer the ship toward more Glazer profits.
        Cantona good too, mate!!

    • tonymontanna4united

      @Redrich: I’m not all that fond at the idea of a director of football tbh, they always seem to be hit or miss, with more in the latter category.
      As Grog says, it’s not really going to mean we spend any more money or push the boat out any more than we do currently, but I suppose having someone who might have a few contacts, and might be able to spot a young player with superstar potential isn’t a bad idea as I don’t think our scouts have been up to much in regards to first team players coming in these last few years (although it has to be said they’ve done a good job with the academy spotting the likes of Januzaj, Perrera, Vermijl, Pogba & Daehli before they left, who all look like they have excellent potential.
      The return of the King would be something I’d like to see if we did go down that route, although with his outspokenness against the Glazers I’m not sure if he’d take up the position.
      G Nev speaks alot of sense and seems to know his stuff, but I think I would prefer someone from abroad with contacts outside England, as we don’t seem to struggle bringing in talent from these shores.
      Germany and Belgium are the current hotspots at the minute, so maybe someone with links to these countries? The dutchies always seem to know their stuff so I don’t know- Guus Hiddink, Frank Arnesen maybe?

      • @tonymontanna4united: Point taken, mate, but it is the wave of the future. If this gets EW away from getting his nose into player negotiations, I’m for it. How can it get any worse?
        Would you give EW a hit or a miss?
        If Moyes has any future at all, he will need a better advocate than the one he’s got now.

  • Boy you are angry! But rightly so.. :twisted:

  • Here’s a fact Groggy. You throw out a nothing fluff article, with one anonymous source, and tell everyone how afraid that makes you.

    Alright, fair enough.

    But now, you come at me, and tell me that part of your freedom of speech is that I cannot say that article is extremely thin, bordering on completely meaningless? That you will get Ian to enforce your right to post links to fluff articles, attach vast meaning to them, and then shut anyone down who comments on the thin basically useless nature of the article you post, because to point out how thin and basically useless that article is, someone in your reckoning is a personal insult. To be clear, I did not either attack you, or insult you.

    I say Citeh have weaknesses for an example.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762121-what-are-manchester-citys-most-obvious-weaknesses

    Then say I put that link beneath it. You can read that. You can come back. You can say the link is informative, or not informative. You can say it shows I’m grasping for straws to support my point. None of that would be personally insulting, or attacking, or belittling, or demeaning.

    You are mistaking fundamentally the right to be treated civilly, and the right to be agreed with. Which means that by your own admission, you cannot expect me to either agree with your posts or be silent, and deny my right to a differing opinion. That is something you have said over and over again, and you would be wise to apply that to your own conduct, lest you rightly be labelled a hypocrite for imposing a standard on me which you refuse to live up to yourself. Having different points of view expressed civilly is a good thing. I look forward to continued posting, which is not directed at you specifically at all, but at posts that catch my attention. I responded to many posts, not just yours. Some I agreed with, some I didn’t. I like this blog, I like the discussions, I wish to continue and add to the discussion in a way which enriches conversation, and I am thankful for the opportunity.

    • @Ben: You need to learn how to differentiate between the terms DISAGREE and INSULT. You can disagree with what I say and offer your opinion or solution but you cannot go about it by insulting my intelligence, demeaning my effort and throwing insults I and others consider personal in nature. And I am not the only ones on here who have had to endure your tirades. Get over yourself. Your views are no less important or valid as mine or anyone else. This is a forum mate where we share ideas, not where we come to get abused by a bully like you. Disagree to your heart’s content but try to do it with some class and respect for the other person who despite your attempts to prove otherwise, loves and knows his club as well as you.

      • @Grognard: My two pennies worth…Grog, you seem to be suffering from a chronic case of double standards. You are the first to “attack” anyone who dares disagree with you and your dismal view of United. It’s like you HAVE to have the final word. I’d personally rather finish on a positive than finish on a negative, but you don’t seem to be able to hep yourself. Can I say change the record without sounding rude? I don’t know, you decide. But for pitties sake, let it go.
        Your view is not gospel. If you don’t appreciate some of the comments you’re getting, perhaps try a different approach. Clouds and silver linings and all. Look at the sunnier side of things for a change if possible.
        Remember, you’re airing your views on a public forum, where users are encouraged to respond, if you don’t like the criticism perhaps you should take a break from voicing your views for a while. Let things calm down.
        I’m not “attacking” you, just call it Devils Advocate. Red Devils advocate, if you will.

        • @BigRed: I never ever said my view is gospel and you are missing my entire point. I don’t care if you disagree with my posts or articles. I just want people to treat each other with a bit more respect. I’m not perfect on many occasions on here when I have misbehaved, I have returned and apologized. And 99% OF THE TIME THAT WAS BEFORE I RETURNED from my year long hiatus. Since then I still write opinionated stuff and other than having issue with those who love the Glazer’s, I more than behave myself, unless I get attacked and insulted. And even then I don’t blow an axle like I used to. There is no double standard here. I am the target of insults and ridicule while at the same time many on this blog are in full agreement with me.

          Disagree with my views to your heart’s content, offer up your opinion, but for gods sakes man, I just asked for that man to get off my fucking back for once. He is making coming on this blog Hell for me and maybe I haven’t got as thick a skin as others. I’m 54 and very old school and I really resent somebody hiding behind his monitor talking crap to me when he would not if he were face to face. I just want us to voice our feelings and get along. We all come from different walks of life, from different parts of the world and our allegiance to the club has been built differently. I wasn’t born with the Man Utd DNA in my blood. I didn’t inherit it from family members and I’m not from Salford. Therefore I follow and support the club the way I know and the way I choose based on my cultural background and beliefs. And I have as much right to voice my opinion without every second word of his reply being an insult about me as a person or my way of thinking.

  • ‘God what I would give to meet you face to face.’

    How am I not surprised it has come to this? That is, if I am not mistaken a veiled threat of personal violence. Wow. For someone so prickly it really is astounding of you to actually stoop to implied threats of personal violence.

    I will address your charges, though they have no substance.

    I called an article you linked a fluff piece. I was not aware that was considered a personal attack on this blog. I have seen other people refer to linked articles as fluff pieces in the past 24 hours. And I did not take that to be a personal attack on the person that linked an article, and I don’t believe the person who had their link called a fluff piece did either.

    Also, to say you are searching to confirm a bias is not a personal attack. I shouldn’t have to explain why, but I will. Saying you have biases is the same as saying you have opinions. Saying that you seek to confirm your bias is exactly the same as saying that you are giving proof of opinions you hold. Commenting that the proof you have provided is weak, and fluff, and does not lend any particular support to your view is not a personal attack in any way.

    But I will say you have really shown your colors Groggy. I would hope that Ian would not tolerate implied threats of violence from anyone. Whatever you think of what someone says, that has to be considered miles over the line. Hopefully Ian sees your indefensible and outrageous intimidations and intimations of personal violence and takes action.

    • @Ben: Oh it’s not a veiled threat at all. I truly wished I could meet you in person. Take that as intimidation if you want, I just take it as a heartfelt wish on my part. I’d love to meet the boy who has the balls to talk to me the way you do in person. Violence? Nobody said anything about violence but trust me, I’ve fantasized about it. You have made my presence on this blog a living fucking Hell. You are rude, condescending, ill mannered and full of yourself as well as acting like a wannabe copper. You come on here and act like a bully and all I know is that in person the bully in you would cease to exist, believe that. I’m not flexing my muscles or telling you how strong or big I am because that is not my intention. My intention is that you sir are a little coward. A person who talks like a big tough enforcer while he hides behind his pc screen when in reality all you are is a bitter little man who has insecurities and anger issues. And you resent people with opinion s that don’t jive with yours.

      I told you what the solution is. Leave me the fuck alone and imagine I’m not round. Converse with the others on the blog but leave me and my articles alone because now I resent you having to say anything about them, good or bad. I didn’t want to be your enemy and I was the first to extend an olive branch while trying many times to get you to calm your bad attitude down but with you it was always in one ear and out the other and a continuation of your attacks. I don’t care if you do not like me or care for my views so just ignore them and believe me, from now on you are completely dead to me. Lets see how long it takes you to come back with more of your ill mannered venom and insults. And stop attacking the views of others also. Who the fuck made you guardian of Manchester United Clark Kent?

      • More insults.

        Now he says he fantasizes about physical violence against me.

        Ian anywhere?

        • @Ben: He lifted the corner of the rug so that little entities like you can sweep all the dirty bits and pieces away from his sight.
          Don’t worry, he’s on your side, you will get the help you need.

      • @Grognard: “..You are rude, condescending, ill mannered and full of yourself as well as acting like a wannabe copper.”

        Some more double standards.
        You are constantly telling people how to behave and then doing the exact opposite yourself. That statement you made above could easily be something being said about you. I could add to that aggressive, foul mouthed and on a power trip.

        “You come on here and act like a bully and all I know is that in person the bully in you would cease to exist, believe that…”

        What is this statement if not a threat? Cultural differences or not, that’s your typical internet warrior comment. Ten men down a telephone line. Why do you do it?

        Do you see the double standards?

  • I made an attempt to read you. I stopped after the first paragraph. Jagger-jagger, babble-babble and in the end, DOOM. You are a drama queen man…

  • Dont see why the Glazers are being blamed in this transfer window. It was a risk putting Ed in charge of transfers, and I am sure Glazers knew that. But, it was worth the risk at the time, since Ed has proven himself to be a genius in the commercial side of football. If he manages to do something similar in the player transfers side, then we would have the greatest football club CEO the world has ever seen. I think thats what the Glazers thought when they appointed him. Didnt work out too well, but he deserves another chance. Gill made his fair share of mistakes in the transfer market too, but he wasnt sacked because of one bad transfer window. Fans are singing Gills praises now, so that shows how fickle some fans can be. Ed could yet prove to be a competent CEO, so he should be given another chance imo. He failed this window, and the media has written article after article bashing it. This is the best learning experience he could ever get, and he should get a chance to prove whether or not he has learnt from all of this. Gill and most CEOs in football didnt know shit about football transfers until they learn from trial and error.

    Glazers financially supported Moyes. The money was there to spend. 35 million quid bid for Khedira, along with overpaying for Fellaini, and bidding good money for Baines, shows that the Glazers did back Moyes financially. Some fans want an owner like Sheikh Mansour or Ambramovich. Those fans don’t really deserve the right to be having digs at City and Chelsea fans for buying their way to success if they want owners like they have. Its just two faced, and I would like to see each fan have a consistent, balanced opinion.

    There are some things that I feel Moyes messed up in the transfer market. Not all of this summers mistakes were Ed’s fault. But I think both of them will learn from this and move on.

    Dont understand why people think Moyes is out of his depth tactically. If he is incompetent at football tactics, then Fergie was even worse. Imo, Fergie was above average, but not outstanding. His strengths lay elsewhere. Moyes is a better tactician. 3 games have passed so far. We were good against Swansea. Good against Chelsea. Lacked some killer instinct in the final third, but we were in control for most of the match, and would probably have won had Mourinho not come for a draw. Think about it, Mourinho set up his side for a draw. What does that say about United and Moyes as a tactician? As for the Liverpool game, both sides didnt play well. We lacked creativity up front. Liverpool were lucky to win, but the fact we lost isnt a big deal overall. We tend to play shit at Anfield more often than not anyway. If I remember correctly. Last season, out of the same 3 fixtures, we got 4 points. We have 4 points now as well. I dont see why fans think Moyes is a bad tactician or hasnt done fine so far in matches, especially when compared to last season. But this wont be the last time this season that Moyes will be thrown under the bus for a performance that was less than perfect by some of the “supporters”.

    “The fiasco started with us being linked with Thiago Alcantera. Plan “A” is a great little player with loads of potential but a player I realistically could not see leaving Barcelona unless his mentor Pep Guardiola came knocking. And that’s what happened. Two weeks wasted chasing a ghost and never even placing a bid for fear it would be accepted.”

    We didnt place a bid for Thiago, because we hadnt even agreed terms with him. Bayern did the same. They didnt bid for him until they agreed terms with him, more or less. Considering the fact that you support both United and Bayern, I am gobsmacked you are so poorly infomed on the Thiago transfer.

    “Cesc Fabregas. If there is a definition of an “unrealistic target”, Fabregas fit the bill. A devoted Catalan and life-long Barcelona supporter, he was never interested in leaving and the only thing he got form this interest shown in him was a fat ego and bargaining power for a better contract from Barcelona. How many bids did we put in for him? One, two, three? Regardless, the answer from Barcelona each time was NO and eventually Fabregas put an end to the farce by saying he was flattered but definitely not interested. So what was Moyes and Woodward’s rebuttal to that? Lets waste more time and make another bid.”

    if I remember correctly, Fabregas made his first public statement about Uniteds bids, and then we immediately stopped bidding for him. I dont recall us bidding for him again after he released that statement, to which we replied publicly with a statement of our own.

    “For years now it seemed that Fergie was settling for players that would cost no more than 30 million pounds total. 2011/12 was an exception to that golden rule”

    we spent around that figure a few times since the Glazers tookover. Obviously, due to interest payments. But we did spend more than 30m in a single transfer window, during the Glazers reign. In summer 2007, we spent net 52 million. In 2011/12 we spent more because our financial situation was improving. Maybe Fergie asked for more money, maybe he didnt. No way to know for sure. But what is sure is that our financial situation has improved in the past 2-3 years. Our transfer budget last year was around 70 million pounds net (my estimate), and the budget this year was even more. 99.9% of fans arent looking at the signs and financial data. They just like knee jerks more than reading and unbiased analysis. This summer we had the biggest transfer budget we have ever had. My estimate is around 80-100 million. Glazers didnt deny Moyes and Ed money to spend. As I said, fans that blame the Glazers for this summers transfer mess are acting very ignorant. I hate the Glazers too, but for the love of fairness and balance, Glazers should not be blamed for stuff that isnt their fault. If people are unfairly blamed by others, then those “others” have an agenda and/or are biased and have their judgement compromised.

    “They created rumour after rumour linking us with players and in the case of players like Fabregas, Modric, Ozil, Khedira, Sneijder, De Rossi, Baines, Fellaini, Coentrao, Herrera, Mata and a few others supposed bids were made. Problem is all those bids were far too low and never came close to the market valuation of those players.”

    we never bid for Ozil (Telegraph, and many others, say we were never interested since we had Rooney and Kagawa), and never bid for Mata (same reasons as Ozil). Coentrao was a last minute loan deal, according to the papers, which collapsed anyway. Later in your article you said that Herrera is nowhere near as good as Modric/Mata/Fabregas/etc. So, how much do you think Herrera is worth then? We supposedly bid around 23-26 million pounds for him. Doesn’t that seem enough and match his valuation, or even excessive, for a player that you say is “relatively average to good”? You admitted that you know very little of Herrera, so how do you know that he is “relatively average to good”?

    Fabregas was someone we could never bid his market valuation for. Not when most of the money is being saved for possible bid for CR7 later in the window (which was a risk, and depends of the whims of Madrid and CR7). Some papers say we bid for Modric, some say we didnt. The size of possible bid wasnt mentioned, so there is no way to tell whether or not we bid his market valuation. Bidding for De Rossi was a waste of time, he didnt want to join us, and Roma didnt need to sell, and we underbid for him anyway. Galatasaray say we bid for Sneijder. No one knows if its true, let alone size of the bid. We were right not to bid Baines market valuation. We bid over Fellaini’s market valuation, let alone match his actual value. We under bid for Fabregas, but that had nothing to do with Glazers. It was due to the transfer strategy, but thats a long story. We bid 35 million pounds for Khedira. How does that not qualify as at least “bidding market valuation of the player”? He isnt worth that much money. Even Real Madrid fans I speak to say the same.

    “The initial 20 million pound bid for both Fellaini and Baines in fact were insulting to not only Everton FC, but any sane, intelligent and devoted fan of football. Considering we ended up paying over 27 million for Fellaini and having a final 20 million bid for Baines turned down shows exactly how low and ridiculously insulting that first bid was.”

    the first joint bid for Baines and Fellaini was actually 28 million pounds, not 20 million pounds. Papers say we never bid 20 million for Baines on deadline day, so I dont know where you got information from. I dont think the first bid really matters since everyone bids small at first. The second/third joint bid of 38 million pounds was fair and close to market value according to most fans.

    “Ander Herrera is not a world-class talent. In fact he is relatively unknown because he is relatively average to good.”

    This is the same Ander Herrera that pulled the strings in the middle of the park, when Bilbao kicked us out of the Europa League a short while back. This is the same Herrera that you said you barely even know. So how can you say he is “relatively average to good”? Graham Hunter, who I am sure everyone here knows, said the following on Herrera. “

    “How humiliating is it for a fan of Manchester United when player from a minnow of a club like Athletico Bilbao is forced to take a pay cut if he is to play for the supposed second richest club in the world?”

    I dont see how that is humiliating. Herrera is a good talent, but he isnt worth 25 million right now, because he hasnt been tested against the best players, like other players of the same age, since he hasnt played much Champions League football. But those that have seen him play on many occasions say that he is a very good player, with the realistic potential of becoming world class, and then getting the winks and nods of approval of Barca and Madrid that you want Herrera to get before he can be designated as a top talent, and before we could go out there and buy him. My only reason for not paying 31 million for Herrera has nothing to do with his talent. He is a really talented player, but I am not 100% comfortable with spending that money on him since I havent seen him tested against the best on a consistent basis, due to Bilbao not being a consistent participant in the champions league. But if Moyes ends up deciding to pay 31 million for him in January, then its fine with me. Wage cut will make the real transfer fee lower than that though, which was the whole point of the proposed wage cut.

    Asking him to take a pay cut isnt humiliating. He isnt 100% worth the amount of money we bid, so to make up for it, cost elsewhere had to be saved, and so a wage cut would make the transfer fee feel fair. Herrera supposedly agreed to it and was happy with it, so why should this concern the fans? Its between United and Herrera, and doesnt concern the fans. Its not like players dont get a pay rise if they play well. Had Herrera joined us and played well, then he would have gotten a pay rise, just like other players get. Barca made Fabregas take a pay cut when he joined them. Was this humiliating for Barca and its fans? Do the Barca fans care? No, of course not, because as long as Fabregas is happy with what Barca pay him, then why should the fans give a shit.

    “To renege on an agreed deal and to sight the fact you never agreed to the player valuation is just retarded speak for getting cold hands once your bluff is exposed”.

    We never agreed a deal with Bilbao. We supposedly agreed a deal with Herrera, but that is the norm in transfer negotiations nowadays. We haggled with Bilbao, but they didnt want to settle for less than the buyout, so we withdrew. Some say it was due to tax issues, which is a very plausible theory as well. As for Herrera, he seems fine with the fact we didnt manage to complete the deal. He says he isnt angry with United and is very flattered that we wanted him. Its likely that we will return for him in the future.

    “I cannot get out of my mind that for 42 million pounds we could have bought Mesut Ozil, a playmaker extraordinaire and a world class talent who wanted to come to Old Trafford.”

    fans are bitching and moaning that Kagawa will never be the CAM due to Rooneys presence, and so would have to use Kagawa on the wing. You want to add Ozil to the ranks? Where is he supposed to play? Its simple, there is no space for him, and he might not even fit the tactical system. I wanted Beckham back a couple of years back, just for old times sake, shits and giggles. But I am not the manager. You say that you support Moyes, and now you blame him for not signing Ozil? You say Moyes is a poor tactician, bad at transfers, poor at attracting top players with just his reputation, etc, and you call this “supporting the manager”? Singing his name here and there during a match is hollow/fake support after you throw hundreds of insults at him beforehand and feel is completely incompetent. At least stand your ground and say that “Moyes is incompetent and I wont support him, and if he proves me wrong, then I will just hold my hands up”. By calling him incompetent and insulting him further, and then saying you still do support him, it just seems fake. You say that you respect Fergie. So how can you not trust his judgement when he picked Moyes? By insulting Moyes, you insult Sir Alex and his judgement too. Sir Alex asked fans to back and trust the manager, and some “supporters” gave him 2 months and 3 games before throwing him into the meat grinder. United really has such a fantastic, loyal and understanding fanbase, and I am so fortunate to be part of a fanbase that is a model for all clubs fanbases to follow.

    “I want Edward Woodward to go straight to Hell or to the Glazer’s mansions in Florida (same thing). Just get as far away from Old Trafford as is humanly possible.”

    fire him, and watch the stampede of top clubs trying to get him. This man is the very best when it comes to commercial deals and sponsorships in football. Bayern seem intent on increasing their lead over other clubs in terms of commercial revenue. If they were serious about that, and had any brains in them, which I am damn sure they have, then they would hire Ed. If City, Chelsea, PSG, Barca, Real Madrid, Dortmund, etc want the best at the sponsorship side of football, then Ed would be their number 1 choice, and I can guarantee that. Demoting Ed to the position he held before Gill resigned, is an understandable cry from the fans. But kicking him out of United is an ignorant cry.

    • @khalid7: Damn brave of you to come out at the very beginning of the season to predict that all is well (suspiciously over-optimistic, seeings we’ve already dropped 5 points in 3 games) and that adjustments or changes are not called for at all.
      All is well, right mate, the ship has a good captain and the shipyard has the best interests of the passengers and crew at heart, huh!!

      Do make sure you wear something Red today, because failing to do so may make a bad and evil fan – and that urge to say something negative will probably tug at the heart strings.
      I’ve heard Ian is doing free confessionals immediately after each home game. You are golden! :)

      • @Redrich:

        of course i think some changes are necessary. but the right changes, not the wrong ones. Moyes and Ed, both, made mistakes in the transfer market. in some, Moyes was to blame more, in others it was Ed’s turn. so what should we do? sack them both? imo, no

        Ed and Moyes both made mistakes, and many lessons will be learnt from this summer by them both. its all about trusting the manager, and supporting him. Moyes and Ed seem like capable men, and i am sure they will learn from the personal humiliation they have gone through by the media and fanbase. if the fans arent present and standing by both Moyes and Ed through their early tests, then it will only be right that they hang their heads in shame when they do become 100% competent at their jobs and tasks.

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