Jul 31
The Red Issue Forum letter to Sir Alex Ferguson
In a Manchester United career spanning 25 years and 4 decades, Sir Alex Ferguson has achieved a collection of honours greater than any other manager in the history of British football. His management and tenure has seen Manchester United United dragged from their underperforming FA Cup winning era of the 70′s & 80′s and returned them to the title winning and European conquering era’s of the 50′s and 60′s. Importantly, he’s achieved it by playing attack minded football the United way.
However, there’s a growing sense of distaste amongst the Manchester United fans for the greatest manager of all-time, the man who has undoubtedly brought them footballing moments they never dreamt they would see thanks to comments he’s alledged to have said recently. Red Issue have pencilled and forwarded a letter to Mr Ferguson in the hope he’ll find the time to respond and answer the questions put to him about how he sees The Glazer’s, the clubs debt and more importantly asks….what is a real fan?
Here’s the letter in full.
Dear Sir Alex,
As lifelong Manchester United fans, we are disappointed and concerned by quotes attributed to you in a recent interview. Many of us are the same fans who protested to denounce Cubic Expression back in 2005. These are the same fans who had previously offered you their unwavering support during your private dispute over Rock of Gibraltar’s breeding rights, despite Cubic Expression raising some very pertinent questions. In the spirit of fairness, we would like to invite you to clarify these comments by responding to a brief summary of our concerns:
1. You suggested that ‘the majority of real fans will look at it [Glazer ownership] and see that it’s not affecting the team’. Can you clarify what constitutes a real fan?
2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans?
3. Have you personally met with any of the dissenters to determine how deep their commitment and affection for United may be?
4. What are your thoughts on an atmosphere which gets markedly worse each season as more and more local, traditional fans are marginalised and alienated from the club?5. You are also quoted in the interview as claiming ‘I’m absolutely comfortable with the Glazers situation. They’ve been great’. You are clearly aware of the opposition from the United fan base – does that not make you uncomfortable in any way?
6. What, in your view, would constitute poor owners?7. You have repeatedly claimed to have been backed financially whenever you have requested transfer funds. Is this your only consideration when determining what represents great ownership?
8. You continued the interview by saying that, ‘the salaries, agent fees – is just getting ridiculous now’. Whilst we agree in tone, it does represent a sea change in attitude from pre Glazer transfers. Agent fees in both the Ferdinand and Rooney transfers were criticised at the time for being excessive, so why does the club now refuse to meet market conditions for the top players?
9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?
10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’?
Given your personal background and previous support for fan involvement we hope you take the trouble to respond to our deep concerns about both the club’s situation and the wording of the interview quoted.
Signed:
Concerned Manchester United Fans
Related items from Red Rants:
Tags: Manchester United
The_Philosopher (408)
Redrich (221)
Opti (209)
Stephen (151)
Moscow (147)
Why is Fergie not getting rid of players like he used to. Ince Kanchelsis,Ruud, Cole. When they were not giving their best he got rid of them, now he keeps players till they can no longer wear the jersey because the Glazers are keeping him short of the transfer funds until they start falling behind like in the Euro champs.
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It`s been reported on sky business news that sir alex is st to be handed 16 million shares on floatation.Im seriously considerng walking away from this once great club.
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@mark,cork city: Good for you, but are you really a fan of the club? You sound like yet another who thinks by being extreme makes you a proper fan. United are and have always been bigger than any manager and any owner.
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Fergie has sold his soul for his own gain. His desire to remain at United is more important to him than his own views of what the fans think of him. Power and money corrupt and this has been the case with him for years. Once we had won the 19th title his work at really was done and he should fir me stepped aside. He would have gone out on a high and would have remained the bench mark for any other ever taking over the club.
But he is greedy, for money, success and winning. He is untouchable currently, he will never sacked and for me that is a dangerous position. Everyone in the profession needs and element of pressure, he has none. After being humiliated in the Champions League last season he walked between the raindrops of criticism and nearly won us the league.
He is a tremendous manager and a true winner. He has made the club what it is today and that should never be forgotten. We were a nearly team before he took to the helm and now we compete for trophies every season, which no other club has done. But he has made some real mistakes, his problems with the Rock of Gibraltar probably caused the Glazers to buy the club, his talking about”real” fans is a joke. What not locals but foreigners who buy merchandise are? His constant talk about “value” is also a massive bug bear, was Berba, Bebe and Tosic value? His falling out with the BBC has also tarnished the club and was petty to say the least.
He takes adversity and spins this into his benefit, this what he does best, but can he do the same with the fans?
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@Stephen: Fergie admitted he fucked up the CL with his squad selections.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/368614/20120731/manchester-united-sir-alex-ferguson-champions-league.htm
Can we please stop using 1 bad year in the CL as proof that the squad is lacking. The same squad that pushed City to the last day even though we finished last in the injury table. SAF is a great great manager, but lets stop acting like he was working with chopped liver last season. The team is talented just not star studded.
Everyone\\\\\\\'s talking about this one! - Join the debate.... Like or Dislke:
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@johnsom33: I have always backed the manager and his transfer policy. The issue was he neglected to invest in the midfield which was our undoing.
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@johnsom33: Also for many Fergie is an easy target. For the younger supporter he probably isn’t as cool as Mourinho and for us older fans we remember the club before he was in control. This is a double edged sword, we have constant success for 20 years, which is unprecedented and should be awe inspiring. No other manager or club has achieved that level of constant success. But some fans was glamour, we had it with Cantona and Ronaldo, bar Rooney who is hardly glamorous but a terrific player. The side is more workman like that swash buckling, his ethos has changed. This is more than likely to revolve around budget, the issue here is why does he not sate this? Talking about value, agents and clubs being unrealistic is modern day football. He is either protecting the club or protecting his best interests, most likely both. The Fergie our brigade are pathetic, but he has faults. Yes he is a brilliant manager, but of late he has treated the fans without any respect, we go to games, we buy the shirts, we pay his wages.
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@Stephen: To be fair stephen, i dont think anyone really wants fergie to step down. Anyone whose said that has obviously only said it in a moment of madness. Deep down though, i think we all get this club would be totally fucked if fergie stepped down at this moment in time.
However you ask me if the dream scenario was to happen, and the glazers sold up, we were debt free, able to spend what we wanted again and the topic of fergie came up- well then i think id have to go along with the idea that that would be the time for fergie to step aside.
As colver says below, a new era an all it’d make sense.
But not gonna happen i suppose. Fergie and glazer are thick as thieves.
They, and he, will vet the potential new manager when the time comes, make sure they get someone whose not likely to rock the boat, fergie will be made a director or some silly role, and he’ll still have a huge say in the running of the club, who comes, who goes, which staff stay etc.
Were treading a very fine line right now as far as im concerned.
Im sorry but to me, fergie has become far too big for his boots these days. Were almost ferguson united these days it seems, and im sorry but i find that just wrong as i do still firmly believe that this club is bigger than any one man, be they ronaldo, be they giggs and indeed be they fergie.
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@tonymontanna4united: Really Grognard, Moscow and others on this site have all stated they want him out one way or the other mate.
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@Stephen:
I only see one that needs to go GLAZER
LUHG
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@RedEyes: We all know that mate, but they are going nowhere. United are their cash cow, so under Fergie regardless of his faults we really do need him.
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@Stephen: We all get angry and say things in the heat of the moment mate.
I think if you ask moscow though, or if you asked grognard if he came back (hopefully he does one day), then i think they’d tell you probably the same as i said.
Under this regime, he has to stay really, even though i feel hes doing us major damage with his off field comments and lack of action regarding glazer.
However, if in an ideal world we were to see the leeches leave, well then it’d be a different story, and the departure of fergie is something id be 100% behind.
Call that unloyal, ungrateful or whatever, but unfortunately his comments re glazer, his seeming gain from this IPO and his lack of respect towards the fans has left me to think in that event the club would be better off starting fresh.
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@tonymontanna4united: I disagree mate, I think certain people have nailed their colours to their own masts. Frankly that is up to them, but I find this somewhat odd, regardless of what Fergie has said about the fans. This for the minority is a means to an end, they simply want a certain guy to manage United and will cling onto to any negativity the manager does. The majority acknowledge the fact the manager has sold hid should to the Devil, saying what he has about the club is simply inexcusable, but under his watch we are going to Ok. He says pulled results out where no other manager on Earth could do, but his comments have left a nasty taste.
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manu is a greate club & sir alex is greatest but american owner are not fan of manu we pray to god please save or send a messiiah to guard manu from americans
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The glazers once again showing how “great” they are, with their new revised plan regarding the IPO.
Apparently now, they only plan to use half of whatever they make from the IPO to clear the debt, which is in contrast to the full 100% they stated they would be using just weeks ago in the prospectus.
The other half goes to glazer and his wonderful family, to spend on their failing shopping malls in what ever american state theyre fucking in.
Tbh based on their revised plans, i really hope the IPO goes tits up, absolutely nobody shows any interest whatsoever, and we get laughed at from all and sundry.
Maybe my heart is over ruling my head here, but hopefully that’d take us a step closer to a full sale of the club in the coming months.
Probably not though, as i suppose instances such as this show what a golden cash cow we are for these leeches. £100m+ of free easy money for bog standard shares- what a world.
I wonder how much of that fergie will get as a bonus for his glowing endorsment of them last week
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@tonymontanna4united: not surprised really once the chevy deal was announced but for seven years…big bucks. Which meant that drastically improved the Glaze pov from a financial perspective and they no longer need to appease the fan base cos tell you what we all are united through and through we will stick to the club no matter what.
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16 million shares he will get from 5pm today.
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@tonymontanna4united: At $16 / share, they will sell quickly. The ONLY upside to a big IPO showing is:
1) Part of the debt will be paid off: United can handle interest of 200m in debt / year
2) 10% of club will be owned by non-Glazers. It’s a step towards fan ownership, even if a mighty small one
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@Opti: Im not so sure mate. Im not a financial expert (far from it) but from everything ive read, it seems that these shares are almost worthless with virtually no chance of any big money being made off of them.
1/10th of the voting rights and no dividends, i cant see any serious investors putting money into these things.
So were talking fans really, people who arent bothered about making money from these shares, who just want to buy a few so they can say they own a bit of united (even if that may only be 0.0000000000001%).
With a recession on and many fans UK based being adamant they wont be putting anything into this, i dont know but id say right now i cant see this being a success.
Which puts me in 2 minds really.
On the one hand if this doesnt do well it just might (hope hope) mean the glazers start to consider their future here and possibly start sounding out interested buyers for a full sale of the club.
Alternatively it could lead them to looking for money elsewhere ie renaming the stadium, selling off the training ground, giving less money for transfers etc etc.
If it does do well, then it sickens me to think these leeches are making more easy money off us again, but you are correct. Just knowing they’ve relinquished even 10% of the club is a start i suppose, though not enough.
So as i say mate, im in 2 minds. I think if you were to ask me honestly though, i still say id prefer this to go tits up tbh.
Even if it means were only 5% more likely to see the club being primed for a full sale in the next few months, then its a risk worth taking imo, because lets be honest, the longer these scum bags keep making easy money from us for doing nothing, the longer theyre gonna stick around.
So making £100m basically free money, probably isnt likely to result in that really is it.
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Ferguson is a total hypocrite over his transfer policy. Value never entered our vocabulary until the Glazers took over. And there is something incredibly corrupt about the Bebe deal which really needs to be uncoverede if the agent fee of 2.6 million is accurate.
Sadly the only way for this club to enter a new era is for both the Glazers AND Ferguson to go.
We peaked in 2008. I just do not see us having the financial resources to rebuild a team capable of challenging for the biggest honours especially as clubs like Paris SG, the Spanish clubs, Chelsea and Manchester City are splashing the cash.
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@colver: Lets not forget rio ferdinand either all those years ago. Apparently we paid £5m to his agent to get the deal running quicker.
That was in 2002, so thats what today, like £8m? And we complain about hazard and his agent.
Totally hypocritical, i dont know why he thinks he can come out with such shite when its so easy to prove him wrong.
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well well well. the fucking leeches have reared their ugly heads and have decided to take half of the proceeds and pocket it instead of clearing the debt they saddled the club with.
may this IPO experience a catastrophic failure. where are the glazer supporters? still sympathizing with them eh!
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your blog just lost any respect i had for it, kicking a pssionate post about the ipo and glazer. i included link to must as i thought it was relevant and you brand me a spammer, shame on you
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@RedEyes:
requested deletion why is this still here Admin sort it out please, thanks. was having moment, realise why your system kicked my first post
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As long as the fans keep paying, the glazers are staying. I hate them twats
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@dave:
LUHG
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Glazer has gone too far. AGAIN. TAKE ACTION NOW
Give up club memberships
Buy no more tickets
Write to sponsors informing them why you will not use their products
Cancel cable sports packages writting to providers informing them why
Never buy merchendise official or unofficial (even unofficial bears the marks of the sponsors this scum has profited from
Write to Fergie and inform him of your actions
Write to Gill and inform him of your actions
If you want to see united play use P2P streams
If you want to wear a united shirt buy a pre Glazer one of ebay
If you want an end of season DVD download it for free from pirate bay
Write to the club and tell them this is what you are doing and why
Inform local and national papers of your actions, where ever you live. All negative press is harmfull to the Glazer ownership
Why care about players in or out when this is going on. This is the only topic worth conversation
Take action NOW this has gone on too long
Rid our club of this cancer
I do not care about players in or out
I dont even care about results right now
This has gone to far and gone on to long
Rid our club of this cancer once and for all
Glazer has gone too far, AGAIN
LUHG
Share this post and take action NOW
LUHG
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@RedEyes: Were all behind you mate, but unfortunately it seems fans such as yourself and myself are in the minority.
You only need read the vomit inducing crap on places like manutd.com, rom, and even redcafe to see that to many united fans it seems long as we win a nice shiny trophy each year, off field matters really are of no concern.
Just a few little beauties ive heard in the past week alone include:
“football fans shouldnt be concerned with whats going on off the pitch, thats where the financial geniuses come in, and weve got plenty of them” ROM.
“Yes i believe fergie is beyond reproach” again ROM.
“This anti glazer stuff is really just fans who are actually just anti american” unbelievable but again from ROM.
Some bollocks too about marxism and manchesters engrained working class values being the reason we “unfairly” despise a bunch of decent businessmen who have come good
and so on and so on.
Sometimes i just despair tbh. Were being bloody robbed blind, its right there in fucking front of us.
The quotes last week about indebtedness affecting our financial position.
The news today about the IPO and only half of the money raised going towards paying the debt, whilst the glazers pocket the other half.
£500m leaving the club since 2005.
£250k a day spent on interest.
Season ticket prices increasing year upon year.
Fergies hyprocritical bollocks about value, agents fees (bebe, rio cough), us being the only team to use our youngsters (near 40 year olds giggs and scholes) etc etc.
You just cant defend the indefencable, and yet sadly some do try.
The sort of tripe they come up with like “oh its just business”, “they’re doing a good job increasing our profile off the pitch” blah blah blah.
Stop speaking like a consumer looking at growth charts and fucking statistics, and start acting like a bloody fan who supposedly has a bond and affinity with this club.
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@tonymontanna4united:
Thanks for your post, would love to sit down and have a pint or three with you.
The internet forums are full of clueless spoilt kids for sure.
It takes a few people and with luck more will follow and we will get that snowball effect. Every thing I said in my post I did years ago and you know what i am going to do it again.
I am not bigging my self up but a post like my last one should be shared and shared and shared.
It is every fans responsability to stand up. Fuck the silverware, fuck the transfers, fuck it all. THEESE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO.
The biggest impact that can be had is if thousands of people wrote to cable providers and said I am canceling because of Glazer.
My lunch has arrived will continue this later
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@RedEyes: Cheers mate.
Fortunately on here you will find weve got a good community (certainly the best united fan blog ive found on the net so far). Main reason for that being here we definitely dont have fans with there heads up their ass, party liners who wont say a bad word about the club (so in turn make some of the cringe worthy comments ive listed above).
If only more fans were like the majority on here, we’d have seen the back of glazer and his disgusting family years ago.
Unfortunately not though.
But we can only do our bit here and there. I gave up my season ticket in 2010, havent been to OT since.
Gave up buying shirts, merchandise years ago too.
Doesnt make any difference to the glazers end of year profits i know, but atleast i know in my heart of hearts i did my bit. If we all did that, well as i say we’d have seen the back of glazer years ago.
Who knows though, maybe this IPO business is the fuel we need.
Theres alot of anger in alot of fans now, alot of talk about the green and gold returning (great as that was though we do need to think of something new and bigger), so who knows.
I know from of mates ive spoken to who felt disappointed by this news about the IPO. They were never glazer supporters, but felt, however misguided, that the glazers were starting to make inroads, repaying off this debt.
Now though after this news about pocketing half, theyve told me they’ve now had enough, and feel as strongly about them as i do.
That sounds like something that is spreading, which can only be good news i suppose.
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From CNNmoney:
“On Monday [United] signed a seven-year deal with General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) to have its players wear the Chevrolet logo on their uniforms for a reported £27 million a year, starting in 2014, up from the £20 million annually that insurer Aon is paying for the current deal.”
27million/year could be our interest payment if half the IPO proceeds go to debt management (as currently postulated).
Fun fact: 27*7 = 189 million over seven year…. that’s A LOT of risk by Chevrolet. No wonder they fired the person who settled the deal.
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@Opti: Its weird that we announced this deal the day before this about the IPO was announced (was big news that it had apparently been cancelled, before we heard again how it was a go ahead).
Announcing a sponsor that wont come into place for another 2 years, this was just for the sake of the IPO im betting.
And whats the bet we get a lump sum from this deal similar to the AON deal 3 years ago.
So that’ll be another £50-70m+ gone on the debt/glazers bank account. Terrific.
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@tonymontanna4united:
not weired part of the plan, see my post below
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@tonymontanna4united: Timing is definitely suspicious.
over 7 years, Chevrolet deal is worth nearly 200 million (+ possible add-on fees based on success/profit-sharing/etc)… that COUPLED with IPO, may be the reason for the backtracking sleezy 50/50 IPO profit split by sleezy Glazers.
What I don’t understand is this: WHY OPERATE UNITED WITH DEBT??? Let the IPO leave United with near-zero debt and consider United a long-term piggy bank… where Glazer’s take 20million per year, I can live with that and United can handle it.
My guess is that the Glazers are struggling financially (as a family) and need an extra quick 100 million as opposed to a steady stream of 20 million per year OR their friends in the banks are giving them a “favors” from the interest payments…
I truly hate Glazers.
LUHG
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/31/manchester-united-glazers-employees-shares
I think the last paragraph says it all. Forget Ferguson and Gill. Lets sort the yanks and banks out first
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@RedEyes: Disgusting if true. Not that i ever believed a word that came out of gill or fergies mouth before regarding the glazers, but now, when they stand to gain out of sucking up to them, well thats it for me.
Fergie when it comes to football your the best. But as a man, you seem just like the rest of them- a greedy, selfish, sell out, champagne socialist. Pathetic.
As i said before, i really hope this IPO goes spectacularly tits up.
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@tonymontanna4united:
Aye it looks like Fergie has sold out big time.
The IPO is one big blag I think. The share price is being inflated by well placed media reports such as
New shirt sponsor
This 1 in 10 people in the world support united bullshit
and the rest of the crap our PR department churns out
I see a similar situation to the recent facebook ipo
Inflate the share price beyond anything realistic
Let the key men cash in
Watch the value drop as the poor fuckers that signed up for the IPO lose out
The rich get richer, the poor get fukd in the ass again
As for the shirt sponsor I would like a sponsor I can relate to as a supporter of Manchester united. You know a normal geezer from Manchester
Sad times, I am ashamed to be a united fan right now
LUHG (with a heavy heart)
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@RedEyes: I agree with you here. Except this:
“As for the shirt sponsor I would like a sponsor I can relate to as a supporter of Manchester united. You know a normal geezer from Manchester”
— Not sure what you expect. Is there any industry/company in Manchester which could pay 20 miillion / year as a sponsor??? I mean, it makes sense to hate SLEEZY GLAZERS, but even if we had good owners, you would expect them to go with highest bidder, no? The Manchester of Old is gone ever since United entered the stock markets back in 90s. United is a global brand who partners with companies from all over the (rich part of the) world, because it is more profitable.
THAT SAID, United should NEVER forget its roots. United should be HEAVILY involved with grass-roots programs in Manchester, charities in Manchester, education in Manchester, etc…
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@Opti:
you can not agree with everything
The fact our shirt has had AON on it just made me feel a bit sad, when you consider what an evil bunch of bastards they are
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@RedEyes: I agree there should be a balance between money and vaues: If good company X bids 20 million and evil corporation Y bids 25 million, we should go with X.
Of course, many would argue that X is evil and Y is good, unless Y is a bank
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Manchester United, the next Glasgow Rangers. This club cannot survive with the debt as it is.
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I don’t know what I exactly need to say, but do you guys really believe owner stay without profit from the club? I mean, I think if Glazer sell the club to next rich/greedy guy, the next owner will be pretty much do same in most cases. They buy out the club with huge debit which is allowed in England. I think United is one of very rare club that making the money. I don’t know why other smart guys miss the big chance to make easy profit. anyway, I don’t see difference between repay the club debit and owner pocket share selling money, United is private owned so they can do whatever they want. at least, new share holders can review financial information and they will make voice about club’s financial situation because it is about their own money.
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@Yang: the problem with Glazers is AT LEAST:
1) Heavy debt => increased ticket prices => boring atmosphere
2) Poor management of PIKs and debt has bled the club of 500 million. 500 MILLION!!!
3) Since Glazers net spending is below Aston Villa
4) Glazers have done a poor job at PR from the beginning
5) Gill lied about importance of debt a couple years ago
6) Glazers own an NFL club (Tampa Bay Bucs) and ran it into ground by minimizing expenses => worst team in NFL over 5 years.
—————
If they had been honest about the debt and enthusiastic about the club, history, and players, things would have been different. Instead, they entered PURELY for profit. Being a United fan, we demand entertainment, glory, and talent on the field. As the owners, they want cost-cutting and drain the club dry before Red Knights come stumbling with silly money… for a dead horse.
Glazers are a curse, which was caused by United’s desire to become a global brand in the 90s. If we can survive them, we will be fine. If they drag United down with them (i.e. they failing NFL team, mall business, etc), we will never forget the memories or the lessons learned. Red until I die!
LUHG!!!!
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Another day Another reason to be angry
Manchester United Ltd’s owners stand to make about three times their investment in the British football club if it successfully goes public.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/uk-manchesterunited-ipo-
Theese days I hate putting the words “Manchester United” in to google and hitting “news”
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Glazers out
Gill out
Fergie out
This evil triumvirate is ruining our once great club.
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If you are not pissing blood yet, then read on
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/31/glazers-manchester-united-takeovers
LUHG
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Looks like Fergie is set to gain an absolute fortune from the employee share scheme as part of the IPO. His hands are really tied behind his back eh? Oh he’s struggling but he’s not saying anything for the good of the club I suppose?
Never in my life have I seen a more traitorous, greedy coward than Ferguson. How shameful
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@Moscow:
I have seen a more traitorous, greedy coward than Ferguson and his name is Malcome Glazer.
Who put us in this shit?
Who continues to milk us dry?
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@RedEyes: If Fergie goes and with Mourinho not being allowed to get the job or frankly wanting the job, Guardiola, my dream choice out of of football for the foreseeable, who else do we have Moyes.
Getting rid of Fergie under the Glazers would be suicide.
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@Stephen:
Fergie should stay for a few more seasons. Glazer should throw him self under a number 86 bus
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HELL, lets talk football for a minute
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1585135_case-for-defence-manchester-united-concern-ahead-of-tour-games
I have an idea Fergie, get your good buddy Malc to stick his hand in his pocket and buy you a new defender. After all we seem to get more injuries than most
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See what I mean now Tony?
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@Stephen: I think what moscows getting at though mate, which i am also behind him with, is yes he would like to see the end of fergie. But he/we want to see the end of the unholy alliance of gill, glazer and fergie so ultimately as i said, fergie goes when glazer goes.
If glazer stays, then fergie probably has to stay too for the sake of the club (although there is something to be said for going through a slump ie dropping out of the top 4, which IF it saw the end of glazer id be well behind. Short term pain for long term gain and all).
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