Oct 10
The Tevez Problem
So far, the biggest loser from the signing of Dimitar Berbatov has been Carlos Tevez. He didn’t get on the pitch at all against Chelsea, failed to gel with the Bulgarian against Notlob, and was relegated to the bench for the games against Aalborg and Blackburn. His industry whilst on the pitch haven’t been rewarded with goals, and at the same time Rooney is returning to something like his best form.
And yet talks are on-going to make his contract permanent by paying MSI (the company who “owns” him) an eye-watering sum, reported to be around £32m. Which is more than we paid for Berba or, for that matter, anyone else. Ever. Spot the disconnect? Doesn’t take a genius.
There are essentially three questions:
1. Has Tevez really become a reserve?
2. Should we retain Tevez on a permanent deal?
3. How much should we pay for him?
Has Tevez really become a reserve?
I would certainly say that Tevez has become the second choice support striker to Berbatov. There’s been a lot of debate about whether Tevez is better than Rooney or vice versa, but to my mind Rooney is a much better fit with Berbatov.
The reason for this is that Berba isn’t a poacher who plays right up top all the time in the Van Nistelrooy mould – as we saw against Blackburn, he likes to pull off and receive the ball to feet with his back to goal. When he does this, Rooney is adept at pushing forward into the spaces behind Berba as an auxiliary target man (think of his goal against Aalborg as an example). Indeed, Rooney played much of last season as the main striker.
Tevez, on the other hand, is almost never to be found on the shoulder of the last man. He is rarely in a one-on-one situations (Rooney is sometimes criticised for missing too many, but at least he gets there), and is mostly to be found surging from deep or from wide. Therefore, when Berbatov drops off, it is unlikely that Tevez will “swap” and take him place as the line leader. We will lack the kind of central, goal-poaching presence in exactly the same way as we did for much of last season, relying instead on intricate moves or pieces of magic from deeper-lying players.
That is not to say there is not a role for Tevez. It would be criminal of Fergie not to try the 4-2-3-1 approach, with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo playing behind Berbatov. It might not work – it might be a case of too many cooks – but it surely must be tried. If it does work, and if a role can be created for Tevez to raid from a wider starting position (something he has done in the past for Argentina), then he certainly mustn’t be a reserve. But if it doesn’t work, then unfortunately the answer to the question is “yes, Tevez has become a reserve”.
So, should we sign him?
On the face of it (and not considering price for the moment), this seems like a no-brainer. Even if we can’t accomodate him regularly in a first choice line-up, over the course of the season injury, fatigue and just plain rotation will see him play a good number of games, make important contributions and score a decent number of goals. As an impact sub he would be almost unparalleled.
However, before signing a player who may have to spend more games than he would like on the bench, you need to know more about his temperament. On the one hand, you have the Ole Solskjaers, Darren Fletchers and Wes Browns of this world, who would prefer to be part of a successful squad than a starter for a team winning nothing. But Tevez seems a bit too good to be accepting this sort of role on a long term basis – the teams who coming knocking on his door will be of the Real Madrid calibre, not the Spurs calibre.
Therefore, even if he is initially happy with a role as junior partner in a rotation system, the offers and the stories linking him away from Old Trafford will be relentless. Such rumours, as we found out in the extreme case of Ronaldo over the summer, can be massively unsettling for both the player and the club.
In the long term, if Tevez can’t nail down a regular place in the first team, he’ll leave, even if it is reluctantly. Which begs the question – why sign him in the first place?
How much should we pay for Tevez?
This is the real crux. If we could sign Tevez for two more years at £10m, we should do it without batting an eyelid. But for £32m? For a player who may well end up being a regular substitute? On top of the £5 approx that we have already paid as his loan fee? It’s just madness.
Apart from the sheer ludicrousness of sitting our most expensive player on the bench two matches out of three, we’d have no hope of getting anything like our money back when he moves on. If we sold him on for £20m in 18 months time, we’d be doing well.
So if we do decide to sign him, about £20m is the most that we should be prepared to pay, and we should be looking to get that down to nearer £15m (at the cost of additional payments based on appearances, goals etc). But is there a deal to be done at that price? You would have thought not, since the company that owns his rights will be looking for a much bigger return on their investment, and could certainly get a higher price in the open market. And we could certainly buy a decent support striker who is happy to be part of a rotation system for that amount of money.
I don’t like where my train of thought leads me – where this article is going. I don’t want to let Tevez go, I love the lad, I love his attitude, and he’s scored some crucial goals for us. But pure, cold-eyed business sense dictates that, unless the dream-team Fab Four up front works, we may have to let Red Tev move on.
Penguin, the author of this article, also blogs here.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Celtic: Preview
- Ben Foster to Sign for Birmingham | Fergie Parsed
- 5 reasons why Tevez needs Manchester United
- The Red Hot Roundup: Scholes, Eggy, FIFA, Evra
- Ferguson: There is absolutely no patience in the world now
Tags: Opinions/Columns
October 10th, 2008 at 13:37
yes Penguin! you’re following my line of thought exactly. Would love to keep him, but not for that money.
October 10th, 2008 at 13:47
Backtrack to Fergie statement before the media bullshit…”We got him on the cheap” rings a bell? Looking at in a business sense: He is an asset to the organisation.
October 10th, 2008 at 13:52
I too feel that £32m for Tevez is ridiculous. I love having him in the squad but I don’t think he is the type of player we NEED as a 3rd striker. His work rate is unprecadented, but for £32m I think we could do a bit better, and that is not a knock on him at all. I guess what I’m trying to say is that with the squad we have, he just doesn’t fit for that price. As Penguin said, at £20m he’d be a bargain, but there is no way we will get him at that price. Especially with Man City rumoured to make a run at him, and I can only imagine the other clubs that would love to swoop for him just to get one over on United. Without the Glazer’s selling the club, I’m afraid this may be his last season as a Red Devil.
October 10th, 2008 at 14:00
are u nuts?…let tevez go?how can you come to this conclusion after seeing the lad work his socks off all last year..and don’t forget that ronaldo might as well leave for real next summer…we’re gonna need him then.
October 10th, 2008 at 14:03
Red Ranter/Penguin,
This is probably a long shot, but have you ever considered making a podcast? You could model it on 606 five live phone-ins.
RR and Penguin could host the cast and us blog readers could ring in to discuss issues.
This would all be easily achievable via Skype and internet radio.
The first episode would probably be crap as it would be highly experimental, but my lord I would love to see it happen (plus I’d love to hear Grognard speak/contribute).
October 10th, 2008 at 14:07
He scored so many vital goals last season. I personally believe tevez, rooney, ronaldo and berba can all fit into the first eleven.
October 10th, 2008 at 14:56
@swapnil: I think what we’ll need is a replacement for Ronaldo, not a striker playing out wide. We’ve tried that before (The Newcastle game for example) and it didn’t work out too great if I remember correctly. I know that it was Rooney out wide and not Tevez, but my point is that we are the one of the biggest clubs in the world, and it seems like all we do is play people out of position. Now so far it’s worked for us, but sometime soon it’s going to bite us on the ass. I appreciate everything that Carlito has done for us, and I would hate to see him go, but from a business sense AND a footballing sense, I’m afraid that we may have to let him walk. 32m is just too much. Unfortunately being sentimental doesn’t win many trophy’s.
October 10th, 2008 at 15:17
perhaps if the author or some of the posters here could read and retaing information, they’d realise what a pointless article this is…
the deal, as has been widely reported is 10m over the 2 year loan deal and THEN a further 20m for a permanent deal. Thats a TOTAL of 30m INCLUDING the loan. The transfer alone is 20m and thats a bargain.
Decision is a no brainer. He WILL be bought
October 10th, 2008 at 15:17
if we lose carlitos its like losing one on a family. he is united caliber and he loves united, seeing him go is unimaginable, and 32 mil is just too much, we could snag up 2 firepacked players in that sum, but with all due respect tevez has earned and deserves to be in united. if we could find a spot for him that works, little less of 32 quid i think will be worth it.
October 10th, 2008 at 15:20
honestly, id rather let slavey leave, even though he is that good, he’ll leave anyway, but tevez has stated he wants to stay with us. that is the heart of a true red devil. but as penguinisimo stated, the problem is he does not fit in the style anymore.
October 10th, 2008 at 15:59
I would pay £32 million for tevez…
He tends to deliver when it matters, so i would argue the money is worth it because it means winning more titles.
I completely ignored my liking of the player when thinking about this
October 10th, 2008 at 16:42
I certainly wouldn’t pay that for him, good player love his work rate, attitude no doubt but £32m is way, wat too much.
October 10th, 2008 at 16:51
@Utd: I don’t see your point, the whole deal is £30 whatever million, which for a player who seems to not figure in SAF first eleven, is too much money.
October 10th, 2008 at 16:55
berba is 28 and at his peak, and thus a short term solution. tevez is 24 and has his best years are ahead of him. besides, we need tevez to be able to compete on all fronts and competitions without wearing ourselves thin. we also need him should berba or rooney get injured.
October 10th, 2008 at 16:57
Mascherano to Pool was 17m +3m for the loan so I think an extra 3m on top of the extra 2m we paid for the loan would be fair.
October 10th, 2008 at 17:04
anyone watching SSN? Aparently Charlton are getting taken over by ‘Dubai based investors’
October 10th, 2008 at 17:28
People need to understand I don’t think there is one United fan who does not want Tevez to stay. He is a superb player no doubts, but United always get taken for a ride by other clubs, because Fergie is like a Mounty and always gets his man regardless of how much.
In hunble view this must stop, Carlos wants to paly for us, know one else, we have the upper hand for once and need to use it. David Gill needs to neg a transfer for a chance rather than cave in, we have paid £10m already, offer another £10m and that is to me his value.
October 10th, 2008 at 17:30
i think people are getting a little carried away by berbatov?…tevez i believe is a striker of equal caliber as rooney and berba who btw lest we all forget is prone to mood swings and such…and we aren’t even free flowing as we were last year….32 million for a striker of his caliber and who is loyal and willong to stay with us another 6 years at his peak is not a bad deal…
October 10th, 2008 at 17:49
with tevez, nothing is a bad deal.
October 10th, 2008 at 17:52
@Liam: charlton athletic?!
October 10th, 2008 at 18:06
@Liam: Mascherano is in the first 11
October 10th, 2008 at 18:06
@Devilinho: hey i did my coursework on the glazer take over of manchester united last year, (i got an A, my examiner must have been a red
) if you would like i could upload it somewhere and send you the link to read it, it assess the impact of the takeover, what it has done, and how it might affect united in the future along with it’s stakeholders.
Grognard: the link in post 51 sums it all up i suppose. Bolton has one of the brightest prospects to come in england in a while, yet it is the 2 “richest” clubs are the ones who are battling to sign him, its a joke. what is even more of a disgrace is what football has become to the extent players no longer feel patriotic to play games money has taken over pride and there seems no end to it, long gone are the days of what a club has won, or it’s heritage to manifest into a global monster of what it is worth. I remember reading and article once that said fans now care more about how much it is worth than what it has done, salaries are a barometer of how good a player was, now zico during his prime would have earned less than lets say some back up midfielder, with todays logic, that back up is better than zico in his prime, or any other legend who made their name pre bosman. Contracts are inflated, as i elated as i was when united signed anderson i was disgusted at the price he was bought for, £21 million for an unproven 18 year old no matter how much of a talent they possess unless they are called Edison Arantes do Nascimento (pele to those who don’t know). Money is the new equalizer not tactics or farm system its how much money you have, if you don’t believe me look at the 3 promoted teams, west brom, Stoke and Hull, they were promoted in that order, however the 3rd place team got the most money because of a play-offs due to media exposure, no hull is doing well which more than i can say for stoke or west brom because they have more money, now does this seem fair, that hull city who were promoted got more capital because of a play-off than the actual champion, if i was a manager of a championship i would aim for the play-offs rather than win the league because of the extra money what’s even worse, hull got more money than united did for winning the Champions League, so you’re saying the play off is better than Europe’s biggest club competiton. you’re having a laugh it’s things like these such as over inflated player prices and un even win bonuses are what is ruining football as well as the points grognard stated.
In terms of financial backing football is a business and players are assets so limit how much teams pay for those assets and how much overheads those assets will cost , a way to even stakes is not by imposing a wage cap but a structure; To elaborate, a system that allows all and i mean ALL clubs to pay certain players, for example:
15-19 year olds- let say these are young and unproven talents, the most a club can ask to pay them is £5m
20-24 years olds-£10m max since they are a bit older and more mature
25-30- these are when players are in their prime so £30m max for the best of players
30+- may be past it, but useful £15m max
now what this does get rid of over price players and allow smaller clubs to buy some players. on the other hand it negates the ability of small clubs to maximise their profits on their young stars, so porto will not be able to get £21m for one of their youngsters, which may limit their growth. Now i admit this is flawed, however it took me 5 minutes to come up with this structure and i’m sure the delegates over there at fifa and uefa can come up with one better than this. Also i want to see one for wage, i have a gut feeling in 5-10 years in the paper i will be reading
10 year old signs for Manchester united for £20m for £50k per week
it scares me football will develop into that and it probably will unless something is done, if their is a wage structure no longer will players want to leave smaller teams because they can get more money at another. What happened to the days of when players would stick at a poor club to build itself a reputation, i mean pele rejected madrid to stay at santos because it was the club he loved, and he only got lured by money when he got too old. YOu mean to tell me robinho is at man city because he loves the club not because he gets £1m a month? If so then you are as blind as those buffoons at running the show
October 10th, 2008 at 18:25
Quick point
Someone up top said its 30m regardless of whether 10m was for the loan. Look at it this way:
that 10m over 2 yrs is probably a payment indirectly for his wages only which we would pay in any case ig we bought him back when we loaned him. The TRANSFER FEE is 20m. Thats it
October 10th, 2008 at 18:48
Tev is worth as much as 2 Berbatovs (his age 24 comp to 28 of Bulgarian, his attitude and is big match monster).
Nuff said.
October 10th, 2008 at 18:53
I love Tevez and would love to keep him but no player on the planet is worth that kind of money as a reserve. During the off season I was the one that kept saying that when and if Berbatov or Huntelaar are bought, it would be Tevez who sees himself on the bench. For a couple of reasons. First off, he is not as good a Berbatov and he arguably isn’t as good as Rooney when both players are in form. My problem with Tevez and his price tag has always been that he doesn’t score enough goals or create enough goal scoring chances for himself as a forward. He’s a quick and nifty little player but I’m sorry, he’s not a skilled on the ball nor does he have the vision and passing ability of Rooney. His finishing is also sporadic and quite often he makes the wrong decision. His work ethic and desire is second to none and that is why so many love him but is that what United need right now? What they need most is a general in the center of midfield who can attack and we need a poacher like Ole to come off the bench and get us a tying or go ahead goal. There are times when Tevez can be that goal getter but he is not dependable enough in that part of his game. And still you have to love the player for his attitude and work ethic. But no reserve or part time starter is worth 32 million or whatever they are thinking of paying him.
I’m starting to think that the United brain trust is also starting to realize that with Tevez they have a player that clearly is valuable but incredibly overpriced. They need to seriously consider whether he is worth making that kind of monetary commitment and therefore I think they are intentionally procrastinating in order to see how he reacts to his new role and what he is able to bring to the team from the bench and the occasional start. There thinking is that Campbell or Welbeck may be far cheaper alternatives for that role next year and the money spent on Tevez could go towards a midfielder, winger and most importantly to the Glazer’s their debt. So no, Tevez is not worth that kind of money in my opinion. A good little player but a player who is worth 18 million a year, not over 30. Spend half and get a winger if Nani doesn’t cut the mustard or buy that CDM (if Hargo doesn’t recover) or AMF to replace Scholes. I say by a fantastic left winger like David Silva or Alex Sanchez or Marko Marin. Or break the bank and buy Marco Senna for our DMF. I’m willing to give Campbell, Welbeck or Manucho the job to battle for two striker positions on the bench. Sorry to Tevez because I admire his heart and his passion and desire. But really, did he ever have a chance to displace Fergie’s boy Rooney? And we knew that he would not be sitting down the Count. So unless Gill surprises us all or Tevez surprises us all and accepts the role he’s given, then expect Tevez to go to Spain next summer or go back to his beloved Boca bitter and with the feeling of betrayal in his heart. Such is the world of professional football. But in the end, he has only himself and his agent to blame because of the money he is asking for. Unrealistic in his situation.
So in the end I am going to be proven right yet once again.
October 10th, 2008 at 18:54
No its not 32 million off the bat. The 32 million is the price which includes what we’ve payed per year for him during his loan, 5 million per year which amounts to 10 million over 2 years then plus the 22 mil to buy him outright.
October 10th, 2008 at 18:57
@benjd: Truthfully the Grognard should have his own podcast because he does have a big mouth and he is controversial. To those of you who know who I am talking about I would say that I would be football’s version of Rush Limbaugh. Some love him and many hate his guts.
And RR seems far too busy to get involved with that kind of stuff. He’s one busy fellow these days.
October 10th, 2008 at 19:00
@Utd: But will he want to be bought if he realizes he is destined for the bench? And does United really want to pay that money knowing they have three other strikers who are all promising and they could use that money elsewhere to fill a few holes?
October 10th, 2008 at 19:09
@phoenix red: @Stephen: @Wheezy: I second all the posts! I’ve been accused of being a Tevez basher for stating more or less the same things except perhaps I was perhaps a bit too vehement
Great article again Penguin, Sir!
October 10th, 2008 at 19:27
hey, you know what else ‘doesn’t take a genius’? seeing that tevez is a workhorse and a champion, two things you a) you cant put a price tag on, and b) are rare in the epl. he has won at nearly every level imaginable and, quite simply, saved our ass last season. yes, he literally saved us with some clutch late goals. while 32mil may be inflated, i think it is money well spent especially considering the injuries berbsy-poo and baldy are sure to pick up throughout the season and the flight risk potential of our favorite iberian metrosexual. also, lest we forget that last season, even without berbsy-poo, tevez did not start in certain matches when tactics dictated a stronger midfield lineup or greater width. still, he came on, worked his tail off, and put in game changing and championship winning performances. regardless of your “pure, cold-eyed business” sense, it’s not your money being spent penguin man. in your last two posts, however, you have thoroughly revealed yourself to be an ungrateful tevez hater. plus, his cumbia villera band gives our squad much more street cred than rio’s efforts in hip-hop ever will.
October 10th, 2008 at 19:36
£32m – let’s see, what players can a team buy with that kind of money?
Benzema – add £5-7m and me thinks he’s in the bag. Shame he wouldn’t cosider playing for us.
David Silva – easily, me thinks we could get him as low as £20m. The only plausible replacement for Ronnie if he leaves (Bayern won’t sell Ribery and Nani plays better on the left).
Aiden McGeady – ok I’m a sucker for his trademark flick dribble. And he’s hinted that sooner or later he might want to step up a level. 7 goals and 19 assists can’t lie can they? [And for those quick to slate the SPL, I have only two words - Henrik Larsson]
@Utd: and before you ask, I’m doing this only for the form
October 10th, 2008 at 19:49
Oh, and how good is Matty James? Everytime I drop by Manunitedyouth it seems that he’s MOTM when he’s playing.
If he’s really as good as Nickogs reckons, we might not need a replacement for Hargo. What with Possebon also in the wings..
Kudos also too for the Kiko MAcheda’s performances. He’s starting to look very good this boy – at least from what I hear…
Anyone with MUTV can give us a bit more info about Macheda and James, I mean other than Kiko being a goalscorer and James an midfield enforcer…
What’s their movement like? How fast are they? Can they manage the odd dribble? Is their passing closer to Fletcher or Carrick?
CraigMC? Dan(u)ol?
As anyone can see, I’m really excited by these bunch of kids.
October 10th, 2008 at 19:51
@Nico QB: with Benzema, therin lies the same tevez conondrum… will we pay that kind of money for a striker that is going to be rotated? Will he come from Lyon (champions in their own right) and agree to sit on our Bench? Although he is more of a Rooney/berba type and will fit in either’s role, he will still be subject to the rotation and might not be too happy about it. No doubt I would love the guy, but as we have gotten Berba, along with rooney and tevez, I really don’t see him as a financially-sensible option.
I concur with the back-up winger proposal. We need extra wingers now Giggs is an ‘AMF’ and we have just Park, Nani and Ronnie left. What if one of them got injured? Will it not be ideal to get a young and precocious winger that can be an understudy like Nani was last season; use that time to acclimatise to the United way while also stepping in when injury hits or match sharpness is needed for the 1st teamers?
I suggest Gill and Fergie play hard ball with tevez’ owners; the lad wants to play here, we have a good relationship with them, we finally have an upper hand in a major transfer, use it!! I see no reason why we can’t just pay the extra 10m -15m and call it £20-£25mil in total for Tevez. Let’s face it, that is probably what they will have gotten from other top clubs!! If we are held to ransom with this transfer, then somebody in our negotiations team has to be held responsible!!
October 10th, 2008 at 20:07
@Nico QB: Our kids are really looking bright, but like I pointed out in my post above, we have no genuine/quality wingers in our academy/reserves. If we had one, then I would absolutely reject any more big name/foreign/established purchases. We have an exciting bunch; Macheda, Welbeck, Petrucci, Possebon, Cleverley, The twins, Cathcart, Amos, plus our ‘young, but a bit older’ bunch; Nani, Foster, Evans, Simpson, Campbell and Ando. Notice no winger in that list, we need one to join those kids and develop into a United legend. For now, we have almost every important position covered apart from that and as soon as we can get one, we will be looking very good indeed.
October 10th, 2008 at 20:09
@Gabriel: Agree about your assessment of Benzema, but I was just beng rethorical, just showing what kind of player would probably justify the fee.
Gill and Fergie should indeed play hard ball, but when was the last time we actually came on top of negotiations, financially speaking? Most of the time we gt our player, but we are played for fools.
So actually who is the villain is this story? Is it that Joorabchian guy?
October 10th, 2008 at 20:18
@Nico QB: yeah, I know.. was just playing devil’s advocate there
I suggest we test the waters with Tevez on how he reacts to some bench time and we’ll know if we can take that plunge. Berba and Rooney should be able to take it, but that’s because they know they are almost always gonna be 1st choice, however Tevez still has to fight for his place and it will be interesting to see how he behaves in this situation. He is young and can move somewhere else, so we’ll just have to wait and see if he chooses that option. If he does, it will be very sad, but we do have options ourselves; Macheda, Petrucci, Welbeck, Campbell, Manucho.. it’s almost too much options and potential 
October 10th, 2008 at 20:31
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6620228
Viva Wayne Rooney
Viva Wayne Rooney
Viva Wayne Rooney
With Berba He’s gonna score!
The Net’s gonna go Sore!
Viva Wayne Rooney
He’s gonna Fuck them all
He’s gonna outscore them all
Viva Wayne Rooney!
October 10th, 2008 at 20:51
Tevez is too good to let go. Chelsea and Liverpool would gladly buy Tevez.
October 10th, 2008 at 21:04
@Grognard
Its not as if fergie plans to bench him for EVERY game. Hell, whats the odds rroney and berbatov stay fit the entire season? So he’ll probably still start about 30 games this season given we’ll probably play close to 60
October 10th, 2008 at 21:15
Story in the telegraph today:
Manchester United’s Dimitar Berbatov reveals desire to play in Italy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/3164818/Manchester-Uniteds-Dimitar-Berbatov-reveals-desire-to-play-in-Italy-Football.html
October 10th, 2008 at 21:31
@Utd: I never said that. I said that he would naturally get the odd start but that he had become the third choice up front. Of course Rooney and Berbatov will need rest and injuries do happen. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that no 3rd striker is worth over 30 million. Either play him or let him go.
October 10th, 2008 at 21:43
wow, has it really gotten to this, we are now putting our hearts before our head.
if it’s a choice between who should partner the berb, without a doubt it should be tevez.
1. he is a better finisher
2. he is not afraid to shoot accurately and powerfully from afar, c’mon when was the last time rooney scored with a venomous shot from outside the box 18
3. he can create chances from deep. not as muchas wazza but he can do his bit.
4. he is prepared to run himself into the ground for the team, like wazza
5. he has not even been given a fair chance so far this season to link up with the berb. the did well for the goal against the shitty pool!
the only reason why rooney starts, is because he is english,
coming into the the season tevez had better form, waS OUR BEST PLAYER AGAINST POMPY and for those who say he does not work well with the berb, i remind of our goal against liverpool.
for whatever reason you give rooney is a poor finisher.
typical fergie
pls united fans call a spade a spade. and if we can afford to pay 30odd millon for a striker who played major parts i our double winning season, why the hell not, the berb is not worth 30 mill, rooney over the past couple of seasons is not worth 30 mill, players generally now are overpriced, deal with it!!! GENERALLY WE TEND TO PAYB ABOUT 5 MILL MORE THAN W ESHOULD
we are the most deluded ungrateful fans in the world, give tevez a chance.
October 10th, 2008 at 21:56
With the purchase of Berbatov it puts us in a decent position with Tevez. We need to put MSI to the sword and get a decent price on this.
I think Tevez can solve the winger problem with his wide movement if he can develop a cross, much like Ole did to Beckham.
The Emergence of Evans and Rafael have shored up CB and RB positions. I think all we need to see is some Fabio action and assess the left back youngster role.
I want to see Manucho play more reserve games. Is he gonna get any games during the international break?
October 10th, 2008 at 22:00
@bildani: I read the artcle. It really looks a fantastic piece of researched journalism, complete with statement of intent from the Count himself.
October 10th, 2008 at 22:34
@Gabriel: I think that playing the twins on the wing could work. They (especially Fabio from what I hear) run all over the place and the main criticism of Rafael has been his defensive positioning. They have the skills to make good wingers and wouldnt have to worry so much about defense (any excuse for Fabio to play, I can’t wait for him to light it up)
October 10th, 2008 at 22:35
@oneunited: easy man, I believe most fans here are just concerned about the price, especially as we have an upper hand in this dealing. Everyone here wants Tevez to stay, but are just calling for a reasonable price as everything is in our favour this time. Nobody appreciated paying £30mil for either berba or rooney and if we have a chance to prevent a repeat of that absurd pricing, why shouldn’t we? If you could prevent paying that much for any player, wouldn’t you give it a go?
I, and I believe most of the fans here, love Tevez. He is United material thru and thru and we will love nothing more than for him to secure his immediate future with us, preferably at a reasonable price.
October 10th, 2008 at 22:41
@oneunited
very relevant points. I think tevez probably has some reason to be frsutrated even though he wont show it. he was undoubtedly our best player for the first month but rooney is clearly favoured in some ways by fergie over tevez irrespective of form. dropping rooney now of course is unjustified because he’s finally got his act together and starting to perform where should be
October 10th, 2008 at 22:45
@Liam: It’s all good if they can become wingers, but i would rather have a natural winger who was educated and developed from a young age playing that ‘winger’ role or something similar(e.g CF). Wingers are usually brought up playing as such as the talents they require for that position are acquired at an early stage of their development.
Fabio has already notched two goals in the reserves and it’s a shame he’s out injured as he could have been featuring as much as his brother has for us. However, good things come to those who wait, and I’m sure when Fabio gets his chance, it’ll be a whirlwind of a performance.
October 10th, 2008 at 23:40
Lets think that all are in their best possible form. Rooney is better than Berbatov. Berbatov is better than Tevez. That leaves Tevez out. But Rooney is injury prone and Berba has just gotten so many games lately cause he needs to learn how we play and get some match fitness. Rooney is on a goal scoring run and he cant be left out right now! Tevez will get more starts during the season, the only reason he hasnt played so many games until now is because he is the only striker we have that got a real pre-season. Rooney was sick and Berba didnt want to play. Now Berba needs games and to learn how this wonderful team works, Rooney is on a goalscoring run so its difficult to leave anyone out! We have to buy Tevez, I trust Gill and Fergie. They wont let this happen. After that latest transfer deadline we had, I believe anything can happen when it comes to transfers. When City bid for Villa, Berba, Gomez and buy Robinho, then I believe we can get Tevez for £500,000.
Just kidding of cource, but we have to buy him cause he is a part og the family. Without him we lose a big part of our team. He probably wont cost 32 mill, its just a number the papers have written because they want headlines and the number is because its his kit number! 
October 11th, 2008 at 0:03
@Grognard: Groggy, check this article out, it really presents another view to the Foreign investment(ownership) debate. Tell me what you think…
October 11th, 2008 at 2:50
@Gabriel: Interesting article but he seems to confused with his perspective. The bottom line is he doesn’t see foreign ownership as a bad thing where I do. But only because it is being allowed to get away with bloody murder. So there in hand lyes the problem. The FA, FIFA and UEFA are allowing too much skulduggery to go on unpunished. Too much money and dirty dealings and tapping up of players etc etc. It needs to stop and only the governing bodies of the game can do this. But then again, they can only do it with the help of the EU. Sports leagues cannot survive with aright wing capitalist mentality. Their needs to be a solid socialist structure in order to keep the competition fair and balanced. Until the game wakes up to that we will continue to see the demise and destruction of the game and lesser teams. We are headed for a European Super League. It is inevitable. A league of 20 teams from Europe with deep pockets. And that for me would be a disgrace and a crying shame. Money and wealth be damned. What happened to kicking the ball around for sport?
October 11th, 2008 at 6:55
Here are my answer to the questions posed in the article:
1. No. He will be part of rotation system.
2. Absolutely. Ne is essential to our current success.
3. 25 million.
October 11th, 2008 at 9:18
@RedDevilEddy: good points eddy, tev will have his share of playing time, not just now since we are blending the count in. he will not be benched every game, as i have said he will be part of the rotation. fergie wont just let one of his best players leave, fergi has a plan, he bought berbs coz he wants 4 strikers in rotation. and tevez is one of those strikers.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:37
wasn’t everyone rubbing their hands with glee the period just before tevez was signed?
tevez is a winner. he is technical. he has flair. he has workrate
i partially agree with a few of the comments above claiming tevez was better than rooney
both are not defensive liabilities i.e. ronaldo & berbatov
yes, tevez is probably a better finisher, but 2bh both waste chances aplenty. the finishing standard we expect is too high; not everyone can be as ruthless as ronaldo/ rvn.
i actually feel tevez is a better dribbler; does anyone else have that feeling?
two things going for rooney are that he is english + he is an assist king.
yes, rooney does get into those “scoring” positions more often (but that just makes us cringe when he misses)
anyway, my point is: love them both!!!
i would straight swap him for sergio aguero, coz the latter is younger and therefore more expensive. no other way i let our tevez leave.
October 11th, 2008 at 11:15
Don’t forget that Ronaldo isn’t likely to stay much longer and so that would allow Berbatov, Rooney and Tevez to play together more in the future, so for that reason I say keep him.
October 11th, 2008 at 14:43
@Grognard: I think he is criticising Blatter for homogenising Forign investment in Football. His point is that not all of them are bad, take Aston Villa’s chairman for example, Randy Lerner; he seems to be running a steady ship, better than Ken Bates (an English man) did for Leeds!! Football is a business, a global one too and investors are always seeking to invest in businesses, foreign or local. Why is the fact that Foreign investors are bad, but local investors are good? Mike Ashley of Newcastle, anyone?
Secondly, they say the Money input is creating an unfair playing field.. well i don’t think that is the case. First, lets’s examine the PL.. before all this money came in, the only clubs that had any serious dominance were ManUtd and Arsenal, now with this foreign money, Chelsea, Manutd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Man city, Tottenham, West ham among many can all have a realistic shot or at least be more competitive in the player market and hence on the pitch. If that’s not levelling it a bit, then I don’t know what is. This ‘new’ money has helped a lot of averagely financed club compete in the transfer market, hence increase their perfromance, profile and hence increase their commercial revenue, be it thru Tickets, shirts or tv rights. You might say it’s still the same top four, and no other team has a chance, but these top four already had the foundation’s for dominace set in place; they were already up there when the ‘new’ money came in. Chelsea were already in the top four when the investments came in, infact they were already in the CL.
Let’s look at other leagues for example, Lyon has won the french title 7 years in a row now, how is that a fair playing field. Real and barca have been switching the title btw each other for years; with only Valencia interrupting that flow (and yes, you guessed it, because they were invested in by a millionaire). Inter, Juve and co the same. Leagues from smaller countries are only allowed one participant in the CL, and that participant gets over £10mil each year just for that; with that kind of money, which team do you think will win that country’s league nxt year? Talk about stones… glass houses!!
European teams have been run by millionaires for a long time; inter milan, ac milan, barcelona, real etc in the process creating unfair playing fields and unrivalled dominance, but just because those millionaires were homegrown, it was alright!! The business world is global now and with the success and lure of the PL, foreign investment is expected. That is not to say a proper fit persons test should not be in place, but for both foreign and local investors, which will include such restrictions, like, borrowing against your assets to buy a club, like the Glazers did!!
I do understand that the ‘new’ money is making player prices and wages skyrocket, but the best way to derail that is to introduce salary caps and transfer limits, not limit investment in lesser club so as not to disturb the already established status quo of top teams. If not for ‘new’ money, will chelsea, valencia among others have been able to reach the heights they have today?
Those imbeciles at the Helms of FIFA and UEFA are the ones that are confused about their perspectives, instead of them to worry about how they can regulate these investments that are definitely raising the profile and competitiveness of the game, they are trying to banish it alltogether and in the process protect the status quo of teams already at the top, who are no doubt lining their pockets.
October 11th, 2008 at 16:54
does anyone have a link for the england game?!?
October 11th, 2008 at 16:57
@Grognard:you know the idea of a similar system to what major league baseball has is not a bad proposition, team can get a return on some of their youth players and it will stop the creation of young mercenaries who want to leave for fortune.On the other hand the draft idea would not work since football is played on a global level it is impossible to have a system that would benefit every team in england let alone euro or the world.
Tevez for £32m seems a little too much, however the guy can play football is an incredible talent and hard working which is rare to find these days, the only qualm i have with tevez is he is argentinian and being a canarinha its amazing that i support the dude
i would like to bring him back because the squad depth would be immense with him
October 11th, 2008 at 17:27
rooney finally shaved that shit hair of his off
October 11th, 2008 at 17:56
Hallelujah! Carrick and Hargo back!
October 11th, 2008 at 18:47
@Gabriel: Very good and well thought out points. I totally agree that one of the big cures for the type of ownership in the games should be considered only after rigid and strict fit persons tests to properly evaluate the prospective owners intentions, capabilities and assets before allowing them to buy a club in the league. And I am not talking just the EPL. I mean all leagues in Europe need to have strict measures when allowing individuals to purchase teams. They need to have more than enough of their OWN money and they need to show why they want to purchase a club and what their plans for the future are.
I disagree about the fact you lumped Spurs, Villa and West Ham into the group with the big four and now Man City. Sorry but those teams are not in the same category and they aren’t even close. They are sellers and not buyers. Spurs had to sell the heart of their club in order to buy other players. West Ham haven’t bought a worthy player honestly in years. Remember, Mascherano and Tevez were shady deals. Villa spends money and buys some talent but doesn’t really break the bank to do it. To their credit though, they don’t try to be other team’s bitch either (ask Liverpool).
Nope, there is a big difference between what I see as really the big two and everyone else. I am bold enough to say that right now there are two major economic forces in England and United are not one of them. Right now the two most financially powerful teams are Chelsea and Man City.
Yesterday Abramovich lost 12 billion dollars on his other investments due to the market crashing in Russia. And still, that’s a drop in the bucket for him. Can anyone imagine that kind of wealth? His oil wealth will sustain any kind of losses in other ventures by far. United, Arsenal and Liverpool do not have that kind of ownership. Liverpool and United are massively in debt as is Arsenal as they try to pay of their stadium. When was the last time Arsenal spent serious money on a player? No, the economic pinch is affecting more teams than we all think. And there just aren’t enough oil billionaires to go around. Rather than have a few oil billionaires skew everything out of perspective and rather than having several owners leverage themselves with hefty loans, these leagues need to become more conservative in their way of thinking. Only allow owners who have the capacity to run a club but who don’t have delusions of grandeur. Take the pressure off them to have to compete beyond their means by changing the rules for qualifying for Europe and stop rewarding teams who make it in Europe with more money than they deserve. And that counts for all countries in Europe. Right now a team making it in Europe is a punishment for every other team that doesn’t make it. How is that right?
Like I have said before, the only fix for this problem is a socialist one started by FA and with the blessing of the EU. once they may make the first move, the rest of the world will realign accordingly. Salary and transfer caps will take away a lot of the purchasing power of big clubs and allow them to spend on their marketing and building their farm system and scouting. Let them find and develop players the old fashioned way. In England, the territorial boundaries need to be eliminated. In a socialist order, it’s a free for all and let the most organized and most efficient teams succeed based on their infrastructure. But this does not have to depend on money. Measures will be in place and restrictions to keep big teams within check. Especially when it comes to how much is spent and where the money is spent within a country. We can’t have Chelsea buying every great young prospect in England.
Teams working under debt has got to stop. I don’t give a rats ass if the Glazer’s feel they can handle it. Trust me, they have lost their shirts in the market this past month and AIG’s advertising deal looks certain to end too because of their need to cut back costs. Bottom line, if you don’t have the personal wealth to buy a club, you are not eligible. Enough with the pretenders and market sleazbags who manipulate banks and other investors in order to tweak their ego’s. Checks and balances. A simple accounting term, but now more necessary than ever.
Finally, the nature and effect of the Champions League needs to be changed. The system needs to be overhauled and the motivation for entering it should be for silverware, not for millions of pounds. It used to be that the European Cup was all about prestige and pride. Now it’s about making money and seeing how far you can go for the sake of the money. I’m sorry but I for one find it a little sick and grotesque that a fourth place club from our domestic league can win the CL. It’s just not right but FIFA and UEFA don’t care. They have sold the integrity of the game down the river for decades now and have flushed ethics and fair play down the toilet also. The Champions League is and should be only the champions of a league participating in that tournament. not pretenders to the throne. It’s a travesty and an outrage. For the second place to fourth place teams and other adequate runnersup throughout Europe, create a UEFA tournament for them that strokes their competitive and financial needs and motivations while maintaining a semblance of integrity and restraint.
FIFA and UEFA have got to stop meddling in the worst ways and they have to stop acting like high priced whores. They need to start acting responsibly and stop feeling their goal is to create tournaments with 200 teams involved. The World Cup should not be more than 24 teams, the Euros are fine with 16 the CL should only involve the champions of Europe and the EUFA Cup should be structured to allow more teams and one early knockout round to get rid of pretenders and minnows. I am truly sick and tired of capitalism melding with democracy to create hypocrisy in football. It’s time for an Obama type to take the reigns and save the game. Change and reform is greatly needed. Not richer owners with their greedy and sleazy agendas. Someone, please save the game I love from itself. It’s amazing but so many people in high places JUST DON’T GET IT.
October 11th, 2008 at 19:10
@Mr.Muhozi: You don’t have to have a global draft. It can be local only. However I use the National Hockey League as an example where the draft can be global. Almost half of the players playing in the NHL today are from Europe. The vast majority of them were drafted. How does that work you may ask? The bottom line is that a player from Sweden can be drafted by the New York Rangers. What that means is that the Rangers own that player’s rights within the NHL. If that player does not want to come and play in the NHL, he doesn’t have to. He can choose to stay and play for his Swedish side. However, should the lure and ambition of playing in the greatest hockey league in the world stoke his fire, then he must report and negotiate a contract with the NY Rangers.
This same system could be used for football. For example every year their is a draft. Players have to be 18 or over to qualify for the draft. Enough of this exploiting 13 and 14 year olds. Let them grow up like normal kids and enter the draft when they are more mature. In this system United could use their pick to draft Rafel Da Silva, Possebon, Aaron Ramsey etc. It’s all depending on their scouting force and of course their position. As they are first place team, they would get the last pick. But the world has much to choose from. Now this system would not stop a similar draft from happening in Spain, Italy, Germany etc. That’s where an individual team’s ability to persuade a player to sign with them is important. In a socialist climate where there is a cap on spending, this isn’t such an undertaking. And one rule I would include is that domestic teams have first choice over domestic players. This is just a rough drawing of my plan but I hope you get the jest of it.
The other measure that would control this draft and make it much more domestic in nature is a limit of foreigners allowed in one country. Before RR and others start crying bloody murder and telling me it is impossible I say here me out first. This measure can only be done with two parties being committed to it. FIFA, who already are committed to this and then they need to persuade the European Union to play with labor laws in order to categorize football as a distinct society and allow this form of socialist reform to take place. After all, we are talking about millionaires here, not plumbers and line cooks. A well put together proposal that uses North American sport as a fine example of distinct societies that operate in this manner even though they operate within countries that are right wing in their capitalist tendencies, is essential. The problem is nothing will get done if ass clowns and muppets like Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini run the European and world game. Enough already. These clowns need to be lined up on a wall and pissed on. They are a disgrace and they have sold the game out for their own personal greed and ambitions. If only people like Pele had the business and organizational intellect to run the game. That is why I feel the best man for the job is the clear minded and highly intelligent Franz Beckenbauer.
October 11th, 2008 at 19:13
baldooney bags a brace
now dont break your foot…
the white pele is back hahaha
October 11th, 2008 at 19:21
For all the Rooney doubters – more evidence that he’s back to his best – 5 goals in his last 4 matches!
The Roon is on Fire!
About the England match, I thought SWP and A.Cole were woeful today. Becks played well for the 10min he was on.
October 11th, 2008 at 19:55
@Grognard: Mate, it seems we are resonating at similar frequencies here. I say, if you can’t fight it, work with it… that’s what the powers at be in Football’s hierarchy must do. Football clubs are global businesses in their own rights, as in they appeal and gain from various countries, races and people. Businesses are meant to be bought, run and sold, so Football clubs are eligible for all these. However, here is where FIFA and UEFA can set an agenda; any person interested in investing or purchasing a football club must go through a rigorous fit and proper person’s test and if intentions are to purchase, must prove they have substantial liquid cash, not borrowed money with repayments mortgaged on the acquired club’s asset. That will be one problem solved as you would not have people like the Glazers or Thaksin Shinawatra in the picture, but people like Randy Lerner. Clubs will only stand to benefit from these kind of owners.
Secondly, the Wages and transfer debacle. Simple solution, introduce Salary and wage caps. It’s as simple as that. If caps are introduced, then the acquisition of players will be a bit fairer to lesser clubs and evenly spread out as most clubs will be offering similar amounts and players actually decide their destinations based on footballing, club potential or club historical reasons.
All these talk about Foreign ownership is just a smokescreen for FIFA and UEFA’s bigwigs incompetence or rather their corruptness. It is obvious that employment and business laws cannot allow for a totalitarian form of governance over football clubs, so why not set up regulations for every club registered under footballing’s governing body (FIFA) that regulates these factors that they complain so much about? Is it not possible to introduce salary caps and fit and proper persons tests? Instead, they want to banish all investment in the game, be it good or bad.
Plenty clubs have been under wealthy ownership in the past and they weren’t any questions asked before. Why didn’t they look to regulate the situation then before it got out of control. Like Blatter said, the PL is a phenomenon and with that lure, the investors, be it foreign or local will come streaming in. If FIFA, the English FA, or UEFA were competent, they will have prevented the bad seeds from entering the game. The PL has done wonders for footballing profile in the world the past few years and this could not have been possible without investment. Yet Blatter blasts this investment, using the fact that it is mainly foreign as his arrowhead. How is local ownership any better than foreign? maybe it’s because the other wealthy clubs in mainland Europe who have been lining his pockets are all locally owned, so they escape any retribution or accusations.
Mate, the real problems and solutions are clear for all to see, yet Blatter and his associates choose to fight an unjust and ill-directed battle at England. How can we be the sole harbingers of death to the Footballing world when we have done so much to raise it’s profile the world over? We have made some mistakes along the way, but instead of trying to bring down that which has helped the game so much, why not try and find a way to fix it?
Btw, rooney’s on form, two more goals to his name and a shaven head. Also hargo and carrick are looking good for our nxt match, can’t wait!!!
October 11th, 2008 at 20:20
Mr. Baldy aka The Roon just scored two goals! And Rio scored one too! He celebrated like a man possessed! United ruling the England Place as well!
And to all Rooney haters and lovers!
Ahm ahm!
Viva Wayne Rooney
Viva Wayne Rooney
Viva Wayne Rooney
With Berba He’s gonna score!
The Net’s gonna go Sore!
Viva Wayne Rooney
He’s gonna Fuck them all
He’s gonna outscore them all
Viva Wayne Rooney!
October 11th, 2008 at 20:44
WOW! It’s just the end of the first half but my German machine is really laying a licking on poor Russia. I haven’t seen a German team move and pass with such pace and imagination in quite a while. I thought the Russians had changed jerseys with them. Actually, Germany were playing very much the way Zenit play. The movement off the ball has been fantastic. 2-0 could easily have been 4-0 or 5-0 and Russia is a great side. Where was this from Germany when they played Spain? Damn!
As for England, they beat a true minnow and should have even done more considering they were asleep at the wheel for the first half. Good to see the Roon scoring again but frankly, he should be scoring against crappy opponents. My question however is when is Capello going to show courage and finally put a rest to this Lampard-Gerrard midfield combination. Despite the second half resurgence once they moved to 4-4-2 from the ineffective 4-3-3 it’s clear that they do not work well together. It’s time to make a tough decision Fabio.
October 11th, 2008 at 21:04
@Grognard: A slight nitpick: Abramovich is worth about 23.5 billion dollars. Losing 12 billion is half his wealth. Dunno how that translates as a drop in the bucket. Yes, the remaining 12 billion is still sizeable, but I’m sure anyone will be more than irritated at the loss of half ones’ wealth.
Just a minor nitpick though, but I do get your drift.
October 11th, 2008 at 21:15
@Red Ranter: Make those losses of 20 million dollars per Bloomberg’s original article. The figures excludes Abramovich’s property, cash and cash equivalent holdings, so I’m pretty sure he isn’t exactly in poverty, but that is a significant chunk of his wealth gone.
October 11th, 2008 at 21:59
@Red Ranter: My mistake. He lost 12 Million. I was so used to talking in billions that I made the error. And he is worth more than 23 billion. He has a lot of wealth tied up in areas. I read last month that his estimated net worth is over 100 billion so the guy is not poor. Yet he is poor compared to the Man City Consortium or the Prince of Dubai.
October 11th, 2008 at 22:06
Russia really made a game of it in the second half. Germany laid an egg and Russia really came at them in that great style of theirs. One thing Germany gained from this game besides 3 points is they definitely found their new superstar goalkeeper for the future. Rene Adler was absolutely fantastic. 10 big saves in the game and the man of the match. Now Adler is a signing I’d like to see by United. Either him or Manuel Neuer. Young German keepers, tall, strong, great distributors of the ball and tremendous shot stoppers. Above all, they take command of the are on crosses and show great positioning. Podolski also did look great today.
October 11th, 2008 at 22:15
From USA Today;
So 12 or 20 billion could be correct after all. Could this mean doom and gloom for Chelsea? Does this mean his 300 million dollar yacht is for sale? Trying times for the leader of the Russian Mafia.
Really though, how much money do these clowns have. One day you read one figure the next a totally different one. I’m confused. Then again this guy is a criminal. I’m sure most of his wealth isn’t even on record.
October 11th, 2008 at 22:49
Rooney is gonna win the PFA trophy for 2008/09, teh United player of the year award, the golden boot and the Ballon D`or.
Ive said it before, Ill say it again: Rooney is brilliant! 
Looks like a pig at the moment, but he plays like Superman!
October 11th, 2008 at 23:31
@RedDevilEddy: More like a potato, lol. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here though, he’s on form at the moment, hopefully he keeps it up this season, it’d be awesome if he ends up scoring 25+ in the Premier League alone this season.
@Nico QB: That was fast, physioroom.com said Carrick would be back Nov 8th. Good news that we’re getting back some of the creativity in our midfield.
October 11th, 2008 at 23:50
@RedDevilEddy: Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I for one, as much as anybody (and considering I’m pro-Rooney), would love it if the Roo grabbed individual awards at the end of this season.
But however let’s remember that this season has only just started and form – as we all know for Mr. potato head – can be temporary (No, I won’t complete the cliché, I grew tired of it
)
Everybody you go watch the end of 2007-2008 end of season review. Rooney was just about our best player in the first 2 months probably even ahead of ronaldo… get my drift?
October 12th, 2008 at 0:42
nani was doin the same selfish shit with 11 on his back as he does w 17 damn i have been taking up for the guy too. passsss the damn ball and ronaldo got kicked out of the game.
October 12th, 2008 at 3:34
england played great in the second half, but fekk me it should have been an international cleansheet, stupid ashley cole gifting the borats a goal. rio deserve to captain the 3 lions, what a class he showed their. and becks, england kicked into monster mode when becks played, walcott was average, but when becks entered, many opportunities were made, defoe scored, hesk almost scored, and the roon scored.
remove super rent boy the skipper badge! give it to big rio!
rooney: man of the match
October 12th, 2008 at 3:43
The count had held off reigning world champs in sofia!
October 12th, 2008 at 4:35
@count berbatov: Italy playing a scoreless tie is almost as certain as the sun coming up every morning. The country is a footballing disgrace.
October 12th, 2008 at 7:35
Anyone one seen this, old but still good
Rio seems to be a cool enough guy in all his vids,good man.Some other of his stuff is lying around too! Vid link
October 12th, 2008 at 8:10
Hilarious Gary Neville
October 12th, 2008 at 8:26
On the Tevez issue;does any one of you guys work in the Manchester United (PTY) Ltd’s Finance department? If not, then please inform me of how you are getting to the conclusion that 32 million pounds is too much money for Tevez? Are you basing your figures on the Sun or NOTW? If an amount is undisclosed,then let’s not bother speculating.Secondly,who informed anyone of Fergie’s plans with our forwards for this and the following seasons?Did Rooney not start benchwise for 2 consecutive games with Tevez starting with Berbatov? For crying out loud,Fergie said we were going back to the 1999 season with 4 rotating forwards after we bought Berbatov.There is a tendency to shift positions and goalposts on this blog at an alarming rate. One day Tevez is better than Rooney,now its the other way round.We base our opinions on one or two games and then conclude the rest of the season on that opinion(which will inevitably change the following week,when a new event attracts a new set of opinions). Berbatov btw is not guaranteed a place in the squad as we shall all see when the season progresses.Everyone will be given a deserved chance.I think Tevez has a critical role to play this season and its not as a super sub as some of you will have us believe.
However,Penguin honorable sir,your article is not in vain as it shows the way we think.I mean all of us.It is a saving grace that none of us are involved in top level football management.
It is funny how Mr Wayne Rooney has been elevated somewhat ,however subtle,by this article.And on that note , Dan u -ol and Craig mc,do you still want to be involved in the Great Wayne Rooney Debate?
Viva Roovez
October 12th, 2008 at 12:24
God the international break is so boring, it is great to see rooney coming back to his true self and not all this running around like a midfielder shit, this is the rooney me, grognard, craig and many united faithful have been craving for, for the last 3 years. ronaldo, eat your hat out because with rooney playing liek this, and hopefully for the rest of the season, you can fulfill your dream and play for those idiots
in spain, you WONT be needed.
October 12th, 2008 at 13:35
If you believe News of the World we are targeting Douglas Costa an 18 year old Brazilian attacking midfielder who plays for Gremio. Does anyone know anything about him?
October 12th, 2008 at 14:00
@colver: i dont believe nay of it. it says we will pay £20mil for him, and we are buying him over tevez.
but gremio do produce the best attacking players in my honest opinion thats a plus, but for 20 mil, nah.
October 12th, 2008 at 14:02
@dan(u-ol): Dan(u)ol bro, don’t speak to soon eh. 1st half playing on the left side for England Rooney was pure shite, and I actually felt sorry for Ashley Cole, because he was having to do the work of two men up and down the left flank. However in the second half, when Rooney was more central and positioned where he should be, his game mega improved. I commend Capello though, for the roastings in recent games he gave to Rooney, demanding that he stay further up the field, and not all over the feckin place. Because Rooney proved the point I have been making for ages, that when he is up field, in or around the box, he is a menace, and gets the goals he is payed for. He had a great second half, but was lousy in the first half. He should never be played on the flanks. Capello is a right Numb Nuts for shoving Rooney out wide, and for what. For changing the whole feckin team around so that he could play a sterile, give the ball away Gerrard. Lampard was better than Gerrard in this game, but that’s not saying much. Neither ever reproduce their club form for England. Only one of them should play. The same cannot be said for OUR lads. Wes, Rio, and Rooney scored or assisted in 4 of the goals, and defended really well. Rio – Captain fantastic.
October 12th, 2008 at 14:34
@Jay wire: Jaywire, admittedly some may have variation of opinions on players from match to match. Where Rooney is concerned though, MY opinion of him has not changed over a long period. This unchanging stance is what gets me into so much trouble with rattled devoted Rooney fans. I only share on this blog what I want to see from a player who is meant to be one of our main strikers. So we have got to see something to convince us in the last 4 or 5 games that Rooney is still a striker. For that I am truly happy. If this level of consistency continues, I will be more than happy, but still it is only what I would always expect from strikers, who cost the amount of money Rooney did. Like Berbatov has said, he is EMBARRASED when he misses easy opportunities to score, because of the amount of money United payed for him to be a striker. He also has yet to prove his striking prowess, like he did at Spurs. Otherwise I will judge him with the same hard arsedness as I do Rooney. If that upsets people, tough titty!.
As for Penguin’s article, I didn’t read it so not sure what you are on about. I usually just read RR’s stuff – sorry!. I have been so snowed under with work lately, that I have little time to spend on the blog. I have never thought that Tev is worth the amount of money that United are being asked to fork out for him. He plays a similar role to Rooney, so we should think about laying out that kind of money, and I have loved Tev since day one. However, I wonder if in this team now, Tev might be somewhat surplus to requirements. United did promise him a permanent contract though, but when did giving your word in football mean anything
. No honour amongst thieves is there 
.
October 12th, 2008 at 15:14
@colver: I have been reading that myself today from various inernet sources, apparently United sent Yip Jaap stam to watch him play recently with Barca and Real also said to be keen on the boy.
Could anybody enlighten us further on this Douglas Costa
October 12th, 2008 at 16:11
20 million is the buy out fee but seriously I doubt that anyone will pay that much for a player unproven in European leagues. I’d imagine even with competition from Real and Barcelona he’d go for between 10 and 15 million. As we are well stocked with defensive midfielders (Fletcher, Hargreaves, O’Shea, Carrick) but will be short of a few attacking midfielders when Scholes and Giggs retire, then if he is the real deal he could be a great acquisition.
We could definitely use a creative midfielder when Scholes retires!
October 12th, 2008 at 17:03
Douglas Costa i think as a replacement for cristiano if he is leaving next summer, which i think he is.
October 12th, 2008 at 17:23
@ali: he plays as a CAM though.
October 12th, 2008 at 17:33
@Grognard: Do you know that Adler is also a Utd fan!!! And he dreams of playing at OT one day in utd colors
October 12th, 2008 at 17:54
@jos: where did you hear this, if this is true, im sorry foster but this guy has the potential to be the best, you have the potential to be the best…in england.
October 12th, 2008 at 18:41
Rooney in the centre= world class, Rooney out wide= average, so if SAF or Capello play him out wide then dont blame Wazza, simple as.
The criticism of Rooney on this site is getting tedious coz when he has played in his favourite position he has rarely let us down
October 12th, 2008 at 19:01
He let us down the majority of 2007 in his favorite position, Fred the Red. He had an awful season by his standards
October 12th, 2008 at 19:09
@Keith Kaira II: he started the season in his normal position and was brilliant but after he returned from his metatarsal injury he was either stuck right up top or out wide, niether is his preffered position coz there is a massive difference between playing as a striker and playing in the hole.
I repeat what I said earlier, when he plays in the hole he rarely lets us down.
October 12th, 2008 at 20:53
blimey i’m slipping for the first time there is canarinha talent i do not know about, Douglas Costa has slipped under my radar, if i can find any old videos of gremio matches then i’ll have a look see, but as far as i know, the only real young talent is Alex of vasco de gama or lulinha of corinthians but both are very raw and lula has a real problem with injuries. For me Alex is the best young player in brasil, and if Sir Alex wants a real talent go for him, douglas costa seems to be one of those “next insert brasilian here” but i have yet to see him play so i will reserve my judgement of him
October 12th, 2008 at 21:47
@jos: Yes but can Fergie get beyond his anti-Kraut status to sign him and make him the new Schmeichel? He is a perfect choice for our future #1 keeper. Not the two who we have now. This should be EVDS final season and a concerted effort should be made to get Adler. A keeper that good who dreams of playing for United should be a priority signing.
October 12th, 2008 at 22:00
@Grognard: Grog, is this Adler guy really as good as Schmeichel?. How long as he been player at a higher level?. Is he experienced, or just becoming experienced?. I don’t know much about him bro.
October 12th, 2008 at 22:02
douglas costa? what’s this? has anybody seen him playing?
October 12th, 2008 at 22:05
i think foster IS good enough to be our no.1, and the best in england(thats english), but i also feel adler has potential to be the best in the world. So, i would be perfectly happy with foster(extremely actually, knowing he’s home grown) but i would no shut the door on a possible move for adler.
October 12th, 2008 at 22:08
@Grognard: This Adler guys seems good from what i’ve read, quite similar to Ben Foster’s rave reviews some time ago!! He actually got his debut last night due to injuries to Germany’s preferred GK choices, but still impressed and is looking a shoe-in for a permanent spot in the national 1st team.
If he dreams of playing for United, good, but I’d still like to give Foster a good ‘ol run of games this season first. I believe Foster will come good, and Fergie has been repeating phrases along those lines frequently, so there must be something about Foster that makes him receive constant praise and adulation from the gaffer.
Btw, did anyone watch the Sweden-Portugal game? How did our wingers perform?
October 12th, 2008 at 23:26
@Gabriel our wingers well nani continued his disappointing selfishness and ron was kicked out of the game.
October 12th, 2008 at 23:50
@gator: What’s up with Nani? I hope that’s not gonna develop into a habit… I thought CQ could be our last resort with regards to sorting out his recent performances!! He has to get out of this slump pronto, we need him to live up to some of his potential and produce those goods. The funny thing is, he is a great passer of the ball, yet that is where he is failing. I’m all for trying to attain/develop a vast array of skills, such as, dribbling, shooting, crossing etc but when the chips are down, you fall back to what you know best; in Nani’s case, this will be providing assists.
He is either very strong-willed/determined in his pursuit of all round excellence or he is very ignorant and naive to the fact that his recent, less than average performances are doing both his commercial/footballing stock and chances in both United and Portugal’s 1st teams a lot of harm.
October 13th, 2008 at 0:49
Did anyone watch Angola vs. Niger??? Did Manucho play? and how’d he do?
October 13th, 2008 at 1:17
@Craig Mc: I never said he was as good as Schmeichel. My God Schmeichel may go down as one of the top 5 keepers of all time with Maier, Yasin, Zamorra and Zoff. What I’m saying is that he could be the next Schmeichel for United. A long term keeper with greatness written all over him. Certainly has all the tools and he comes from the number one country when it comes to producing keepers, Germany. Hell, I even think Manuel Neuer is better than him. That’s how blessed that country is with keepers.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:23
@dan(u-ol): Foster has missed far too much time and has shown a real propensity to get injured. Get rid of him and bring in a true blue chip keeper. United should have a keeper that is ranked amongst the best in the World, not just fucking England. A country that produced wankers like Seaman, Robinson etc. No way. Schmeichel was great because he learned and trained with the German masters he idolized when he was young. His favorite keepers were Sepp Maier and Toni Schumacher of Germany. Two fantastic keepers and keepers who are physical and take charge in the box. Great distributors and shot stoppers but above all commanders. And Schmeichel was that. If Adler has one thing over Neuer it is this ability to dictate and command the box. He has courage and he really goes after crosses and high balls in the box. The guy is awesome and has the potential to be a future Rock of Gibraltar for any great team that signs him.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:23
@Grognard: Oh ok Grog, my mistake
. I thought your glowing recommendation was that we would be getting another Peter Schmeik, but like you say, he has the potential to be. I believe if Ben Foster keeps up the constant injuries he sustains, we truly will need someone outstanding to replace Edwin.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:25
@Gabriel: Truthfully, I don’t really fancy Foster and even if he is pretty good, I much prefer Adler. United should not have a second rate keeper. Top class world class is what I want. After all, we are talking about Manchester United, not Aston Villa.
October 13th, 2008 at 5:50
Hey Groggy, a question
I’m not much of a hockey fan, although if I had to pick a favorite team, it’d probably the Capitals (the Hurricanes do nothing for me tbqh).
What’s your take on Ovechkin vs Crosby?
October 13th, 2008 at 7:47
@Grognard: no no no and no. Homegrown talent is ALWAYS better then buying talent, the way you say “get rid of him” makes him sound like he just a pile of poo. Remember his debut, if it wernt for him, we could of lost… to derby fucking county, the worst team ever to grace the premier league, and lose the title also. How you can mention seamen and robinson in the same breath is beyond me. In england and the rest of britain, currently there are class goalkeepers that are good enough for united, like given, gordon, kirkland, hart and even foster.
i have slep on this i just realised, foster IS better then gordan, buffon, says gordon has the potential to be the best in the world, would that not mean, foster also has the potential to be the best in the world.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:10
@dan(u-ol): here are some links:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/international?id=33998&league=uefa.euro&&cc=5901
http://www.skysports.com/football/euro2008/player-profiles/0,23132,12023_126146,00.html
http://www.goal.com/EN/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=906797
I like Foster and he can have success at Utd but right now he is mighty untried and not an International + he looks like he is always injured!!! We need a good replacement for EVDS (who, in my frank opinion, is now turning into a big liability – too many gaffes in lots of important games plus he is very very nervous in handling crosses in the box these days despite his 6′6 frame!!!). My number one choices for long term goalie are either Adler or Ochoa, both of whom are almost world class and both are utd fans! We can have two top class keepers in Foster and Adler/Ochoa and PIG as no. 3 (or sold! He doesnt at all convince me that he is a man utd player!)
October 13th, 2008 at 8:17
Some more GK reports from Goal.com
October 13th, 2008 at 8:45
@MUFC Fan in America: I used to be a huge hockey fan but I have grown to hate the sport over the the past 15 years. Too much equipment, Goalies are two times their normal size because of it, the rules suck, the defensive clutch and grab style of play is boring and the game just nauseates me.
Crosby is an all round better player than Ovetchkin. While Ovetchkin is a better goal scorer, he is not in the same league with Crosby when it comes to play making. It’s like comparing Gretzky to Brett Hull. Hull in his hay day good score 75 goals but get only around 40 assists. Gretzky would score 55 goals but get 130 assists. Crosby when healthy is good for 40+ goals while Ovetchkin is good for 50+ but Crosby can get 70+ assists and Ovetchkin will struggle to get near 40 to 45. I’ll always pick the play maker over the sniper. Also, I’ll always pick the Canadian over the Russian. Truly and historically, Canadians play the game with more heart and passion. When it comes to hockey it’s built into our DNA.
I suspect you are in a fantasy draft, correct me if I’m wrong. In a draft where points count, Crosby is the better choice.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:48
@dan(u-ol): You have your preferences and I have mine. Foster at his best is not a world class keeper. Adler already is. End of debate. United are the best club in the world. They need to have a world class keeper. A good English keeper just isn’t good enough. He may not be poo, but he’s not what the doctor ordered either.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:53
@dan(u-ol): Buffon sounds an awful like Buffoon don’t you think? He’s never played with Gordon has never trained with him so he is just guessing like all of us. I’ve watched Gordon enough to say that he is a good keeper but frankly, I thought he was better than he has shown. Truthfully, If I want a critique on an upcoming keeper I’d prefer to hear what Schmeichel, Maier, Kahn and Schumacher have to say. For me they are the best keepers ever and play the position the way I like to see it played. Aggressively with a take no prisoners, show no mercy attitude. All four of those keepers are very high on Adler and Neuer as well as Tim Wiese.
October 13th, 2008 at 9:12
I’m glad MU fans are not managers. It’s a bit sad when fans want to apply EA Sports FIFA or Football manager techniques to our club.
First off, Tevez deal is 20m. The papers sensationalise it at 32m by inlcuding monies already paid and wages in an attempt to make it purposefully sound more than the Berbatov deal. And we all fall for it.
Second, Tevez is worth every penny of the amount that United have ALREADY agreed with MSI.
Thirdly, I’m glad to see the Rooney bashers have now laid off him, but a bit sad (although not unexpected) to see they have now jumped onto Tevez’ back.
Fourth, up until a few week ago, people referred to a ‘Tevez/Rooney type of player’, now they refer to a ‘Berba/Rooney type of player’? And in the same breath saying Tevez is not like that? What a joke?
Grognard, dissapointing to see your take on the whole matter, especially considering it was you who not too long ago cursed Rooney (before he started scoring goals again I might add).
Tevez = class
Rooney = class
Ronaldo = class
Berbatov = class (I hope – as yet not convincing enough to justify the Eric Cantona comparisons)
United = class
So, why should we not sign him?
Rooney > Ronaldo
October 13th, 2008 at 9:37
We should sign Carlito, but we should bare in mind monies we have already spent, which are part of the package and monies MSI still want as part of the deal. We also need to understand what rile he has to play in the team, if he is being seen as an impact sub then if the alround deal is £32m, than that is very expensive.
October 13th, 2008 at 9:44
@Stephen: “We should sign Carlito, but we should bare in mind monies we have already spent…”
Why should we? We are not the owners of the club.
October 13th, 2008 at 9:48
@Karl: We should be concerned about our clubs finances, and any true fan doesn’t want to see the club taken for a ride by any other club or organisation.
October 13th, 2008 at 9:55
Ou club have been taken for a ride ever since I can remember. We alway pay over the odds for players and sell at give-away prices.
This is not an attack on you, but simply an example because the view you have is that of almost everybody. The point is, we are NOT the owners and do NOT share in the profit/loss of the club. Fans should stick to keeping their Football Manager techniques on the playstation and EXPECT or DEMAND to be entertained by the best possible group of players in the world when it comes to our team. We DESERVE the best and should not concern ourselves with how much it cost the club. That is for the owners to worry about.
October 13th, 2008 at 9:58
What do you guys know about World WAr One? PLease reply. Ive got a school assignment and I coul duse some help- Grog, Dan, Craig and Stephen….everybody? PLease help me and make it short. Thanks.
Nothing to do at the moment so I just thought this is something to do to spend time if you dont hae anything to do.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:00
@Karl: Well it does affect me because if we pay too much money for players, my season ticket goes up and up every year, so it does affect the fans.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:11
@Stephen: I understand what you are saying and am in agreement in part. But there is a limit that season ticket prices can go up with. The owners know that if it goes up too much, the fans won’t come, so it will have to be moderated. There are too many other factors involved. If player prices go up too much, it then forces the club to become more creative in ways of making money. There is no way they can burden that on ticket prices. For example, we are currently the most debt-laden club in the world, yet our ticket prices are lower than London clubs.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:20
@Karl: As you say our season ticket prices are lower than London clubs, and rightly so due the econmics of the areas. Also there is margin for them to increase and saying the fans won’t come, is wrong the real fan will be priced out of going, but tickets will sell to corparates and to the tourist element which is already there. We do have large debts but due the revenue we gererate we can manage that debt, like your income can supplement your mortgage. The Glaziers are at the club for money, not fun like the Sheiks or Abromovich, they intend to make money, and if we spend big the will want some return back, if we fail to win the league or the EPC, then they will still want to make money, and the fan will be the one to pay.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:50
@Stephen: Ticket price increases will be aligned according to trends and supply/demand. Like you said, the Glazers are in it to make money. They will always strive to get the most out of the situation. If a tourist is prepared to pay 100 quid, why should the good businessman sell for 60 quid? Therefore, regardless of whether we pay 5mil or 30mil for a player, the price are still likely to go up. I agree that by paying more money for good players forces the club to put it up (or rather gives them a reason as opposed to an excuse), but that does not mean that if we pay little money for silly players then the ticket prices will not go up.
The point I was trying to make is that there are many other ways of making money. True the fans in the end pay for it all, but it is not all linked to the ticket prices.
My verdict, let the businessmen concern themselves with the profit/loss margins and we concern ouselves with being entertained. THAT is what we are paying for. For my hard earned money, I DESERVE THE BEST!
I know that I am not very eloquent in bringing a point of view accross, but try to see the principle of what I’m trying to say.
October 13th, 2008 at 11:03
@Karl: Mate you make your point well, and we all deserve the best as we the best fans in the World.
The point I was trrying to make is we all want Carlos to stay, he works his socks off and his heart is firmly lodged with the club and that means a lot. But to say lets pay £20m on top of the £10m lloan figure we I believe we have paid already is a lot of money. If Fergie sees him as soley an impact sub, then we could spend that money wiser in my view. I am not bashing him at all, but if he is not a regualar starter that is silly money, and I care that my club is taken advantage of by other greedy chairman. We could bolster our club in different areas with hat sort of money. To say it is not our money its theirs is not right, the fans foot the bill, if it is not season ticket prices, it is new shirts, food and drink at the ground.
We are lucky because revenue is being generated due to success on the pitch, but if and God lets hope not, we fail to win a trophy for three or so years, we still will pay over the odds for players, and the fans will pay.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:14
Tevez suffers from lack of versatility. He can only really play as a support striker which is Rooney’s favoured position and while earlier in the season Rooney was really rather poor, there is no doubt he is returning to top form and needs to be playing every game. Tevez and Rooney can work but it looks to me like Berbatov and Rooney will be a far better partnership.
Looking back to 1999 Yorke and Cole were the starters. Solkjaer was an impact sub but it is worth remembering he was playing a lot of games on the right wing. So I think Tevez needs another position he is able to play effectively for us if he wants more games. Any ideas what it could be?
October 13th, 2008 at 12:40
@colver: I’m not trying to cover for Tevez, but I think he is very much suited to the attacking midfield position that Scholes used to play. If you think about it, his tackling is not worse than Scholes’. I am pretty sure that is what is earmarked for him (to run in tandem with Anderson), with being Rooney’s replacement his secondary role.
I am glad to see that Berbs is starting to track back and do some work lately, so this is not a pun for him. However, there are times when we play teams where we cannot afford the luxury of having 2 attackers up front that don’t contribute to defensive duties (Ronaldo/Berbatov). In these circumstances, it makes a lot of sense to have a Rooney/Tevez combo.
Btw, Rooney=30m, Berbs=30m, why is Tevez=30m not justified?
October 13th, 2008 at 12:45
@Karl: Rooney and Berba, seem to be shoe in staters Tevez isn’t.
Tevez could play out wide in a 4-3-3, but not as a midfielder, he has not got the passing range which is require. Also it is a bit of a square peg in a round hole, Tevez is an off striker and should be played as one.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:46
One little fact that our Football Manager gurus also need to be mindfull of is the fact that should we not sign Tevez, his most likely detination would be over to Anfield to link up with Mascherano. Can you imagine Tevez and Torres against us? I doubt Rio and Vidic would be able to contain that.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:48
@Stephen: I just find it strange that the same was said of Tevez and Berbs not too long ago.
Why do everybody assume that Dimitar Berbatov is a sure starter? And that he is better than Tevez and Rooney?
He might well be, but so far, I am not convinced (that’s not implying I don’t want him to be – if he do well, my team do well).
October 13th, 2008 at 12:51
@Karl: Because he is starting?! All three striker have been fit and Tevez has only started one game, and that was when Ronaldo was out at Anfield, and I am not a football manager guru, I am saying Tevez is a great player, not if he is not going to start an all round package of £32 whatever million is very expensive for a sub.
October 13th, 2008 at 13:08
@ Karl – I’m not convinced he would want to make that move – i think he firmly understands what that would mean to United fans and he also seems a pretty top bloke. Then again, his owner might not care. I think he’d go to Spain or Italy – just because they can pay more for him and that’ll be the determining factor.
Personally I can’t see us offloading Tevez. For two reasons: 1 – he has great fitness and is quite young and 2 – we’re not a selling club.
Point 1 – Unlike Rooney and many of our other players, Tevez almost never seems to hurt himself. Over the course of the year we need a player that is always available, and so far he seems to fit that bill. He can just about play anywhere centrally forward. Plus he’s got plenty of time to learn more nous and understanding – he has a lot of hte technique already so can work on his reading of the game with time. I don’t think he relies on pace as I don’t think he has all that much, so he is going to need to work on the more tactical side of the game which is natural for someone his age.
2 – when we sell Ronaldo we’re going to have to work very hard on sustaining our image as a destination club, not a visiting club. We have a great core of young, talented foreigners, and if Ronaldo and Tevez were to both leave at such young ages it would send a pretty clear message to the other players. If we hold onto everyone other than Ronaldo, then he will be seen as the exception to the rule.
The big problem will come down to: is he happy to not be in the starting XI, but instead player 20 some games a year as a starter and probably another 20 from the bench. I can’t yet tell…
October 13th, 2008 at 13:24
@Stephen: I’m not attacking you. I just made a general comment. There are also many other reasons why Berbs are currently starting / started ahead of Rooney and Tevez.
@Beachryan. You are probably right in your Anfield assessment, but the irony is, at the moment, the fans don’t want him (they don’t think he’s worth it). Why should he care about the fans then? Why not piss them off on purpose? Not saying that it will be the reason for him moving there, but it will definitely be the reason for Rafa to lure him there. He’s already acclimaticed to England, and everybody knows he will do very well at any Premiership club.
As you stated, at the end of the day, the final decision lies with how happy Tevez will be with his team role. However, SAF has a lot of input in that decision, so, the final decision actually lies with SAF.
October 13th, 2008 at 13:58
@Karl: I totally agree with you on the Tevez issue. It seems a lot of people consider themselves football experts when they are clearly clueless. Who informed anyone here that Tevez is now super sub. Why did that not apply to Rooney when he was benched for two consecutive games? However,I don’t think Tevez will move because SAF has a plan for all our strikers for this and the following seasons.
Tevez is on the bench because Rooney is on form and because Berbatov needs games. We may all be surprised to see that in the following game ,Roovez will be starting with Dimi on the bench.It’s called rotation
October 13th, 2008 at 14:10
@Jay wire: Actually Fergie has said he is an impact player, and if I am not mistaken he has been on the bench 4 times out of the last 6 matches, and he only started against Villareal as Berba was injured.
He is a top player no boubt but not £32m, we just have to negotiate.
October 13th, 2008 at 14:12
@Karl: Who says the fans don’t want him? Because we’re questioning such a heavy price tag for a player that has indicated clearly how desperate he is to play for us, doesn’t mean we don’t want him. I mean, he has played a whole season for us, why should we be held to ransom when we clearly have the upper hand in this deal. Very few players are worth £30mil+… Neither Berba or Rooney are worth what the money we paid for them, but we we’re held to ransom, so we had to fork out. However, in this case, we have a strong opportunity to negotiate the asking price and you say we should pay the exorbitant amount just because?
I love Tevez and I know he will get plenty starts this season. It’s just the start of the season and both Berba and Rooney needed the extra games to get 100% match fit, so we’ve seen more of them. The liverpool comment is just ludicrous at best.. why would liverpool pay £30mil for a new striker when they have torres, keane, gerrard etc? I mean they paid around £20mil for torres!! Besides, even if he went to Liverpool, he will be in a similar situation to what he is in now, a rotation policy, so it doesn’t make any sense!!
If you were David Gill and you could lower the asking price for Tevez, wouldn’t you do it?
October 13th, 2008 at 14:13
@Gabriel: Spot on mate!!
October 13th, 2008 at 14:40
@Stephen: cheers mate
I just find it wierd why fans’ opinions/comments have to be polarized. It’s not a case of ‘You want him or you don’t', we’re just questioning the price-tag, especially when we have a very good chance of reducing it. Just because we have paid £30mil+ for players before doesn’t mean that should become our transfer market standard.
Tevez is not a bench player, but part of a strong attacking quartet; Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo. We can’t play all of ‘em at the same time, so a rotation policy must be utilised. Every big team has superstars who are part of a rotation policy; Barcelona, Inter Milan etc People are too quick to sensationalise minute issues.
October 13th, 2008 at 14:46
It is not a case as Gabriel said of either we want him or we don’t, we all want Carlos to stay, he is a superb player with a tremendous attitude. All we want is to get the best deal we can for our club and to say I don’t care what we pay as long as we get him is not good for the club.
Carlos wants to stay, we want him to stay, all I want is David Gill to do his job rather just roll over and pay what people want.
October 13th, 2008 at 15:00
@Gabriel: Please re-read the last paragraph of Penguin’s article, and most of the comments in agreement.
What if management is unsuccessful in negotiating the price? Then it seems the concensus is to let him go. Is that not correct?
That, to me is an indication that he is then not wanted, especially considering that the price was set even before he joined the team. The being held ransom part does not quite effectively hold here because, there’s no surprise in the price because the amount was agreed in priciple by both parties from the start already.
I don’t intend to debate the ‘negotiation of the price’ issue. My point is – in case you did not get it – why are we concerned over the price of the players? That is management’s headache.
(Btw, on the ticket price issue, expect our ticket prices to go up already next season because we paid over the odds for Berbs).
October 13th, 2008 at 15:11
@Karl: They will as they have every season since the Glaziers have taken over.
October 13th, 2008 at 15:31
@Karl: First of all, there has been no official statement from either parties about a set price, it’s all just rumours, and we’re commenting on these rumours. The general consensus is unclear as no poll has been taken. I don’t want him to leave, and neither do you, so based on that I can also assume the consensus is split!!
With regards to you questioning the fans’ concern over Player prices, why shouldn’t we? We are fans of the club and we are entitled to our opinions regarding club issues!! On your train of thought, we shouldn’t be worried about anything involving the club, as we have no direct say in it. We should not be worried about formations, performance on the pitch etc as that is the manager’s headache
.
Again, I don’t want Tevez to leave, but neither do I want us to be extorted if there is a chance that we could reduce the price. It’s just an opinion, just like when I comment on United’s performance on the pitch ; I have no direct way of influencing the situation, but I comment about it.
October 13th, 2008 at 16:38
this man needs his head checked
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=909713
October 13th, 2008 at 18:09
Its a pity that we have a discussion like this. What happened to all those Tevez lovers last season. The hero who bailed out United almost 5 times from Spurs, Lyon and that all important tying goal at Blackburn…In my opinion that goal pushed the team towards the very end..
In my opinion Fergie should rotate our 3 strikers and can also play 3 of them + Ronaldo in a 4-2-3-1 formation.. Why Berbatov is guaranteed a place in starting 11 and Tevez not..As a team we were never short of goals last season…Why are we looking for goal poachers then???…All the goals scored last season was accurate passing and direct football which was fun to watch and not all tricks,flicks,backheels and “tap-ins”…
United should sign Tevez on a permanent deal..Berbatov is like ‘99 Sheringham while Rooney-Tevez can recreate Yorke-Cole combo…
Bottom line : Tevez is simply irreplacable and one of a kind…this guy oozes passion and desire which i think makes United…
October 13th, 2008 at 18:41
@Karl: I think you are being quite unfair Karl. I have no problem with Tevez other than the price tag and I have to seriously ask the question if he will accept a role on the bench? I am fully aware of what I said about Rooney and I still stand by it. He goes in and out of these streaks of his. Tevez on the other hand never get injured and seems consistent. Problem for me is that as a starter, he doesn’t score enough goals. As a sub, he’s to expensive. So you solve the problem knowing that Fergie will never sit Rooney down for an extended period of time.
I just cannot see Tevez remain happy with that and our chances of signing him the longer we wait is slim and none. And my gut feeling is, that as long as the status quo remains, they don’t really want to sign him. I think they have earmarked that 20 or 30 million for other needs. I like Tevez, believe me I do. But United have Campbell returning next year and they also have Welbeck and Manucho. What they don’t have is the heir to EVDS (Sorry but it’s not Foster). the heir to Scholes (unless Possebon gets a real run out there) and I’m sure they have many questions over the drop in form of one Mr Nani. Also, who knows, Ronaldo may once again kick start the Real Madrid sweepstakes. Tevez will be an expensive surplus on a side that needs that money for other positions. So I am not down on Tevez at all. In fact I’d like to see him start more often. I just don’t see Fergie doing that though. So placing your disappointment on me is unfair and unjust. I am not the enemy here. I’m just calling it as I see it. Don’t shoot the messenger.
October 13th, 2008 at 18:52
@Karl: Spoken like a truly spoilt fan. Not caring about your team’s financial status is absolutely an extraordinary admission mate. Perhaps you’ll sing another tune if the Glazer’s continue to lose millions on the market and sell the club to Mike Ashley (an exaggeration of course). As a fan I am not just concerned about winning and enjoying the game on the pitch. I care about the health and and fitness of my team both on the field and in the boardroom. I care about all aspects of my club’s performance. Why? Because an unhealthy club (ref; Newcastle) is a cancer to itself, it’s supporters, it’s community, it’s league and it’s country. Sorry you don’t see things that way.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:02
@Karl: Man you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. What miserable and cranky reaction. Christ you are so cynical and you seem to like talking down to fans who care enough about their team to offer anecdotes even if they are not in a position to be heard. Perhaps you have forgotten that this is a a rant site where people can voice their views, their dream lineups, their criticisms of the club etc.
I’m sorry if it seems like I’m picking on you here Karl but you have never sounded so angry, fed up and cynical towards any of us before. Let supporters say what they want.
If everyone thought like that there would be no fans and certainly RedRants would have to shut down due to lack of interest. Don’t suppress people’s wishes, dreams and fantasies mate. It’s not fair and it’s not kind. We’re not all juveniles here when we talk about the wish for certain players to be on our team. It’s human nature and it’s part of what makes the game off the field interesting also. So, some friendly advice, lighten up a bit. Supporters are not the problem in the game today.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:04
@RedDevil: I consider myself an expert on WW2 and on the Napoleonic wars but not on WW1 Still, I feel I know a fair amount. Ask away. The worst thing that could happen is an honest I don’t know. Too bad this wasn’t about WW2 or Napoleon. Other than football, I live for that stuff.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:08
@Stephen: Very well put Stephen. I totally agree there. That amount of money could be better spent filling other more important needs. Lets not forget our owners are in a very precarious situation right now and we cannot assume that our transfer kitty always has the money needed to buy whichever player Fergie requires. Therefore budgeting and cutting costs seem to be the measure of the day.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:14
@colver: Solksjaer played very few games on the RW. In truth back then we played a consistent 4-4-2 and Fergie had four strikers who did not have the ego problem that the ones we have now do. I cannot see either of our big three forwards accepting a role on the bench even if that makes them another Solksjaer. Does anyone have any idea how rare a player like Ole was and is? Not only a great player and clutch but completely unselfish and focused on the good of the team. Rooney may seem like that but I think his tune would change if he was benched for a prolonged period. Tevez already looks unhappy and it has affected his game as he hasn’t been great coming off the bench. Berbatov , well we know how he would accept that role. Sheringham was also a player willing to accept that role as a sub and part time starter. When we got him his best days were behind him. He was already in his 30’s and I think he was quite happy with his role. Yorke and Cole were also good team players who accepted the fact they would occasionally sit or that they would be taken off. Ahhh, the good old days.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:18
@Karl: Again I totally disagree. He would go to Spain or back to Boca. He has said this many times before. Him and Mascherano are not connected at the hip. And Carlos honestly cares enough about United that if he were allowed to leave, I seriously doubt he would leave with such bitterness in his heart that he would want to stick it to United like that. Again mate, pretty bloody cynical. And stop referring to us a football manager types. Give some of us credit for having an intellect up there with yours.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:29
No brainer. Tevez should be signed at all costs.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:37
@Karl: Look budy Fans are like children, the candybar loses its appeal instantly when it comes in their hand, especially if there is another more shiny one in pocket or one staring through the glass, Its human tendency so don’t lose your cool about it.
. Any way its collective openion that matters and its hard to see a collective thickness suddenly taking shape, especially where it matters: in the board room.
People are going to have opinions irrespective of what is correct and what is not simply because there are too many of us around and largly because what was meant for work is now being used to give rest to the tongue
October 13th, 2008 at 19:48
@Grognard: Grog, totally agree with your post bro. And yes, aaah the good old days indeed
. I think Ole was only pushed out on the right wing when Fergie had one of his outbursts, and vendettas. He was mad at Beckham, and left him out and played ole if I remember correctly, 
.
October 13th, 2008 at 19:59
Tevez transfer still set to go through
Published Date: 13 October 2008
Manchester United will not have to pay £32m for former West Ham United star Carlos Tevez when the club finally sign a deal to turn his Old Trafford loan deal into a permanent move.
Neither will the Reds be making a U-turn on the agreement with Tevez’s owners MIS that was struck in the summer of 2007.
The club fully intend to go through with the transfer as originally outlined, despite rumours that the worldwide credit crunch
has hit, and United would seek to negotiate a cheaper fee.
However, when the Argentine forward was captured by United two summers ago, Old Trafford’s hierarchy and MIS put in place a fee of around £32m.
However, deducted from that would be a figure of around £3m a season the Reds are paying the owner’s of Tevez’s registration.
The final cash sum that would see the permanent future of Tevez sealed at some point this campaign will be around £25m.
It has been reported that United’s interest in Gremio’s teenage striker Douglas Costa, who is rated at £20m and has Barcelona and Real Madrid also on his list of admirers, could scupper the Tevez deal.
But it is understood there is no get out clause in the original Tevez deal and United will willingly pay up the remaining cash to ensure the forward becomes the Reds’ property.
Meanwhile, United await the meeting this week of US Treasury officials where they will discuss the financial rescue of the Reds’ shirts sponsors AIG – the under-fire American insurance giant.
Insiders on Wall Street are saying that it could begin moves to cancel the £14m-a-year agreement with United.
However, United have already banked this season’s instalment and are confident that another global Blue Chip company would be keen on replacing AIG on the shirts if the rug is whipped from under the current deal.
October 13th, 2008 at 20:19
@Just1n: So its not £32m? Its £25m…
For me one word: disgrace…
Once again no attack on Tev, but whotf are MIS?
Would much prefer David Silva.
October 13th, 2008 at 20:31
@Nico QB: David Silva does nothing for me. He is supposed to be a winger isn’t he? If we have to sign a winger to replace slave or Giggs then the only option would be Ribery imo.
October 13th, 2008 at 20:51
@Craig Mc: Funny how time clouds things. Nothing to do with Beckham’s poor form in a number of key games or his injury disruptions? Or how about Solskjaer’s exceptional form on the right side in a 4-2-3-1 in Beckham’s absence, with 15 goals and numerous assists. The fact he was picked for most of the key games in the run in that year speaks volumes.
October 13th, 2008 at 21:10
@Grognard: That’s (Gretzky/Crosby v Hull/Ovie comparison) cool to know, but I’m not in a fantasy league. I dont know enough about hockey for that.
I’d be interested in knowing what rule changes youd make to the current game though.
October 13th, 2008 at 21:11
Grognard I am also worried. Really we need a situation where each of our three forwards plays at least once a week. That would keep everyone fresh and guarantee them around 20-30 games a season as well as the prospect of substitute appearances.
That is the only way I see of keeping three strikers who could walk into the first team of almost any other club in the world happy.
Tevez seems to be the odd man out at the moment. I think we will be able to wrap a deal up if we still want to. But once he is signed I foresee him getting dissatisfied with being left out and we might be forced to sell him on the cheap just like we did with Heinze, RVN, Veron and all the other players who became misfits
October 13th, 2008 at 21:17
@Just1n: Agree about Ribery’s quality and I was miffed when Fergie seemed oblivious to that boy’s talent, when his eyes were on unproven talent coming from Portugal. At the time I thought 25m (it was euros i think) was a bargain for Bayern.
But nowadays no way is Bayern gonna let go of their best player, even for £32m!!! Just ask Grog. Heck they were willing to let go their not the most important- seemingly always injured Hargo at £25m, was it? Now just imagine the price of one Ribery!!
October 13th, 2008 at 21:21
@Craig Mc: @Grognard: as far as I can remember Ole played quite a few games at RM and as JB says he was fantastic there and until he got injured was our first choice for at least a fair few months
October 13th, 2008 at 21:28
@Grognard Why do we have to talk about “Is Tevez happy with a bench role?”. ..I want to go back 3 months back when every United fan was begging to sign a new striker…Arent we going back to that stage if we leave Tevez (with only 2 world class strikers)??..I think and hope Fergie have enough man management skills to manage the ego problem you are talking about…Berbatov is no Benzema or Huntelaar..He is at his peak and going downhill starting this season or next season…In my opinion Tevez-Rooney should be our first choice strike partnership with Berbatov providing that very good alternative…We are now assuming a starting place for Berbatov because of the money we have spent on him….but i dont think thats the criteria…
Why should we spend 20M for a untested new midfielder when we already have 3-4 world class midfielders and plenty of untested ones and sacrifice a truly awesome footballer and a world class striker for that…Tevez has proved his worth time and again last season and the football the trio played have to be appreciated…
Above all, who would like Tevez playing against us, say for Real or Barcelona…doesnt that sound scary?
October 13th, 2008 at 22:00
@Shyam: Shyam, most of us agree with you about Tevez mate, but we doubt that Fergie does since Berbatov arrived. I have loved Tevez since day one, and this season was meant to be HIS season of proving himself even more, because he was over tired from not getting any kind of a break from football last season. However, he has been the one that has spent the time on the bench really, since Berba came. Still it is early days, but if this continues for any length of time, I agree with Grog, that Tev will not settle for any prolonged time on the bench. He is an all action kind of player, who needs to continually be involved. Problem is, he plays in a Rooney type position, but he like you said Shyam, is the one who gets those vital goals in very tight matches. Rooney doesn’t do that. Rooney gets goals in the free flowing, multiple goal type games. Tev can always be brought on as an impact sub, but he will not do that for long I don’t think. He could as you say, play alternate games, but he would not be happy if he was left out of the BIG games in PL or CL. Thats just my opinion, but we all just wait and see
.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:09
@Liam: Liam, I understood that was because Fergie, having dropped Beckham from the team to teach him some kind of lesson only Fergie thought he needed, played Ole on the RM, and because Ole did so well there, he told Beckham he couldn’t drop Ole. That’s that the Manchester and football papers were saying at the time. I know Beckham was out for a few games, and I know he was really hurting because of it. Victoria Beckham on Manchester radio morning sports talk in said as much. I think she should know what was going on.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:12
@Nico QB: Nico, I understood United tested the waters to try get Ribery, but he didn’t want to come to the premiership at the time. Anybody else heard of this attempt?.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:18
@JB: JB I am not denying that Ole played fantastically for us for quite a few games in RM. I didn’t say that in my post mate. I am saying that Victoria Beckham on Manchester Radio interview at the time, denied that Beckham was injured, but that Fergie was protecting him from what was going on with Fergie and him at the time. Fergie himself, has come out and said that he does when discipling players, leaks that they are injured, because of all the bad and wrong press speculation over disciplining players. Now I heard him say that myself, and that’s the truth JB.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:31
@Jay wire: Please refresh my memory bro, when was Roon benched for 2 consecutive matches, and wasn’t injured
?. Serious question mate, because I don’t remember it. Not saying you are wrong though, I am just surprised 
.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:38
@Karl: Rio and Vidic can master anyone. Torres does not play well against them. We only lost at Anfield because of Edwin’s folly, otherwise it would have been a draw. And we weren’t even playing at 70% our top form. They will KOP it at Old Trafford.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:41
@Craig Mc: And Victoria Beckham is such a reliable source. Sounds far better that big bad Fergie is victimizing Beckham because of some vendetta rather than he was dropped for his showing against Roberto Carlos in the Bernabeau.
When Beckham wasn’t starting during the run in of 2002/03, I don’t remember injury being used as an excuse, he was dropped plain and simple. And in the games he was dropped, he was sitting on the bench against Madrid, Arsenal and Liverpool, only missing the Newcastle 6-2 entirely. So I don’t know where the disciplinary cover up is coming from.
The vendetta theory would have made more sense if it had came after the flying boot incident earlier in the year against Arsenal in the FA Cup but he started most of the games in the aftermath of that. Bottom line, Ole was playing better at that stage of the season and fully justified his place in the team ahead of Beckham. Of course that doesn’t look particularly good for the Beckham media machine; better to blame it on an SAF grudge.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:41
@Craig Mc: Yes, we prodded the waters, but didn’t show the kind of willingness to get what was clearly to me, and everybody who followed a bit of french football, one of the future best 3 players in the world. Ribéry was that good, even at Marseille. (at the time I was watching French highlights regularly and still do once in a while)
As I remember, we didnt put a concrete offer, or nothing substantial to sway Marseille…
Oh, and about Rooney not scoring in important matches… off the top of my head, I say Roma, and Arsenal – when he breaked their invivcibility, oh I loved that one
October 13th, 2008 at 22:47
hello mate, can anyone update me about carrick,hargo and others injury ,when are they going to come back?pls i really need it now mate.
October 13th, 2008 at 22:59
@JB: I always thought the biggest mistake in Beckham’s career development was the fact that everybody raved about his crossing ability, which ended up with him not developing the other aspects of his game.
I remember the year in which Rivaldo won the ballon d’or (totally unfair, Beckham should have won it but at the time there was (and still exisits) the propensity of voters to vote for latin european championships) Beckham had excellent technical ball control, intelligent carrick like through ball passing, could shoot like curlers and missiles alike from afar, had his well-known tireless running and of course his radar crossing.
3 or 4 years later the only aspects left in his game was the crossing, the running and to a lesser extent the shooting.
And to go back to this argument, yes at the time Ole was playing better, but I also thought that fergie was being a tad unfair on Beckham as he could have played him a bit as CM – Scholes was still AM and Keane DM, he could have rotated a bit. Then if I remember correctly while United was losing an iimportant game (Madrid was it?) Fergie decided to actually give Beckam 20min. He came on, scored and created oportunities. Fact is he was far from finished at the time – miles better than what Giigs or Scholes can offer today (as proved by the fact that he was Madrid’s best player in the season where he won the Spanish league) even though he was not delivering the stellar Brylcreem Becks performances…
And, no I’m not a Becks supporter, just trying to give him a fair assessment – he was a prat off-field but never disappointed on the pitch (as far as I remember)
October 13th, 2008 at 23:11
@JB: Look JB, you can be as sarcastic as you like, but I heard that Victoria interview on Manchester Radio with my own ears. David is her husband, so I think she would be more in the know than you and I. David didn’t speak out, but Victoria did, and that’s why Fergie always had a problem with her. Or are you going to deny that too?. Fergie himself admitted, in an interview of his own, that he does cover for players so that they avoid press embarrasment and outlandish speculation over disciplinary matters. You can think Fergie an absolute saint if you like, that he doesn’t have sudden grievances against certain players that upset him, but it is common knowledge in Manchester that he does. All people everywhere have spats, and Fergie is no exception. He has admitted it himself, so we don’t really need to defend him, because he is not too concerned about it. If you want to call Victoria, David (since he left), various ex Man Utd players and Fergie himself liars, then feel free to do so. I’m not in such denial – sorry.
October 13th, 2008 at 23:15
@Nico QB: Nico, the match you are talking about, Fergie’s refusal to play Becks cost us that game. Madrid were there for the taking, and had Becks been on much earlier, we would have done them for sure.
October 13th, 2008 at 23:21
@Nico QB: I’ll have to disagree slightly, I felt that Beckham a season earlier (2001/02) produced a level of performance at the same level to the Ballon D’or year, so I think it is harsh to say his game had degraded as much as you suggest.
With regards to playing him as a CM, I think tactical considerations ruled that out. SAF was playing a 4-2-3-1 at the time and was using two defensive midfielders (Butt and Keane) to free up Scholes, Giggs, Ole and RVN to attack. And Beckham did have an impact coming on against Madrid, scoring a free kick and another scruffy goal (which was probably going in anyway) but you got the distinct feeling that it was because he had a point to prove.
Incidentally I don’t necessarily agree with the decision to sell Beckham and he certainly wasn’t finished at the time. Getting rid of him and Veron at the same time was a mistake in my eyes. Personally I think Beckham’s lack of flexibility/adaptability was a key component in his departure. SAF had begun to rework the attack into a more fluid line up at the time and while the likes of Giggs showed the ability to adapt his game to changing requirements Beckham didn’t. There were strong rumors that Giggs would be sold to Inter Milan that summer but the adaptability he showed in the second half of 2002/03 probably saved his hide. The same could not be said for Beckham.
P.S. RVN and Casillas would probably argue with you over who was the best Madrid player in 2006/07.
October 13th, 2008 at 23:26
I think Beckham just proved at Wembley stadium, that he still has his great probing, accurate floating of balls into the opposition penalty area.
October 13th, 2008 at 23:30
@Craig Mc: I am not disputing whether you heard the interview or not, that SAF can hold a grudge or whether Victoria Beckham has a better idea about her husband than us. SAF quite clearly had a long standing problem with her, so you can stop trying to put words in my mouth.
SAF may well use injuries to cover up disciplinary matters in the club (he likely did so with Beckham a couple of years prior after he missed training) but that never appeared to be the case in 2002/03. Beckham was dropped to the bench after a number of poor performances, no injury cover-up, it was as clear as day what was happening. The disciplinary issues would have arisen months early in that season.
If SAF is capable of lying to cover up disciplinary procedures, is Victoria Beckham not capable of doing so to paint her husband in a more favorable light?
@Craig Mc: Defensive fragilities cost us that game. We created plenty of chances before and after Beckham’s substitution.
October 13th, 2008 at 23:32
@Nico QB: good call about Rooney there mate, dont forget about AC Milan at OT, Liverpool at Anfield plus important gamebraking goals against teams like Derby and Chelsea away last season, the volley against Newcastleand the winner against Pompey and Arsenal and at OT the the season before last, all tight matches were our other big players went missing.
It appears to me that our Wazza can do very little to appease his detractors coz I can think of many more tight games were The Roon has got us going, so to say that Tevez gets the important goals and Rooney doesnt is blatantly not true.
Both good players who have scored important goals so cmon Craig MC old mate, I thought we agreed to differ judgement until Rooney got a run of games in his favourite position coz if he does, he will be a big player for us this season.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:09
@colver: I don’t see it that way. As for this year Tevez will just have to get used to starting one out of every five games. As for next year, I think he is a luxury we cannot afford. We need that 20 to 30 million to sure up other weaknesses. I for one would never sit Berbatov down except in early FA Cup games and all League Cup matches. Tevez must play all those cup matches and I’d start him over Rooney in every 1 out of 4 EPL matches. In the Cl he is nothing more than a super sub.
Again, this is not me being anti Tevez. I like the guy and I think his heart and desire are fantastic. The problem, for me is he doesn’t score enough and he really doesn’t spend enough time in goal scoring areas. Rooney has had this problem too, but he seems to be coming out of it and lets face it, he’s scoring goals a plenty right now. If he goes cold and his form suffers, then put Tevez in. But right now, Tevez is the odd man out. Sorry but for me Berbatov is untouchable.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:11
@Nico QB: Fergie is oblivious to a lot of greatly talented players. Even with his great success, I wouldn’t necessarily call him a great judge of talent. He looks for certain players that he feels he can work with or that offer something he is looking for. For all his greatness, Ribery doesn’t offer Fergie what he wants or he felt he was over priced. Bayern on the other hand spent very well in getting him and I doubt he would be available as he is very happy in Munich.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:12
@Liam: I think he played there a bit in Beckham’s final year. Before that I don’t think so.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:18
@Shyam: Yes you are correct that we would be going back to where we were before we got Berbatov except for one thing. Berbatov is GOD. He is everything we were missing and in great need of when Rooney and Tevez were both starting and doing fairly well. He’s also not very injury prone and he paces himself well. Rooney and Tevez run themselves into the ground. And quite often for nothing. Look I want Tevez but I am just questioning the price for a guy sitting on the bench. We can buy an incredibly qualified striker to man that role if need be and for under 15 million. I’d spend the money where we need it. Besides, I think one more year of experience for Manucho, Welbeck and Campbell may help one or two or even all of them really raise their game and begin to make a statement. They weren’t ready this year. I just see a weakness on the wing, no attacking midfielder and a need to buy a true heir to EVDS as being more important for next season.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:21
@Craig Mc: Good point mate. Totally agree. She has no reason to lie and she is the closest person to him. He also claimed the same thing in his book. So either the Beckham’s are liars or whatever.
October 14th, 2008 at 0:33
@JB: I thought Becks had a chance in CM. Everytime he played there he seemed to perform reasonably well and one can only guess about how he would have developed there. I never really rated Butt. Red through and through but he’d one of those who showed their true quality when moving to another team. When someone plays regularly alongside Scholes and Keane I think he’s bound to look better tha he actually is. Perhaps he was on the same level of Fletcher, albeit more defensively minded. Oh, and he commited way too many faults. And let’s not even thinkabout Phil Neville!
Becks was still world class in 2001/2002 indeed, but what I meant was that he was no more among the 3 – 4 best players in the world or so i thought.
But also when you talk about Beckham’s lack of flexibilty, I can only envision 3 possible positions for him, RM, CM and RB as last resort. And agreed that he was probably going through a dip of form but all of our great players have gone through one – Keane, Giggs(he even used to be booed! Unthinkable today!
), Scholes (well, lesser perhaps), Rooney(spurter), Cantona… But Fergie was always ready to give them a chance to regain their form. The exception of course are those who crossed the limits – Stam, Andrei,… So did Beckham cross the limits? As I said I never felt he let us down on the field, even if some of his performances might have been underwhelming.
Beck’s transfer to real scum was the first one which really left me shell-shocked. I was just a kid when Eric and Andrei left…
OK, me tuck in now!
October 14th, 2008 at 1:33
@Fred The Red: Fred bro, I said that Rooney is playing well in some games lately, that’ll have to be enough for now mate. I’m not deliberately trying to goad Roon fans you know. We lost the games at Chelsea and Arsenal away, didn’t we. Also the one against Inter Milan at OT wasn’t a vital goal either as it turned out, because we were piss poor in MIlan. The ones against Roma and Pompey I will give you
. But Fred, I was referring to goals scored in otherwise lost or drawn games that would have effected the PL trophy win last season. Tev seemed to get them last season, and even Fergie was saying Tev was like Cantona for getting the goal that counts. I am not saying he is a better all round goal scorer than Rooney, just that he is a winner for us in games that would have been lost and cost us PL. It’s all swings and roundabouts anyway Fred, but I know Tev is not better all round goalscorer than Rooney 
. That good enough for you mate 
.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:37
@JB: Whatever JB, whatever. Suit yourself mate.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:39
Grognard, who are Germany playing in their international game on Wednesday?.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:51
@Craig Mc: Wales.
October 14th, 2008 at 19:25
@Nico QB: I’m not so sure to be honest, he played well in CM for us a couple of times (mainly the tail end of 1998-99) but he never appeared there consistently. He played there quite a bit when he went to Madrid and I was never particularly convinced by him in there. I know what you mean about Butt but he was good at his particular role. For example Ronaldo is better than any of our CM’s but you wouldn’t want him in CM to do a defensive job. Butt was a limited player but his positioning and tackling were good and he kept his passing simple but efficient. He fulfilled the role of DM in a 4-2-3-1 well IMO.
When I was talking about flexibility I was meaning what his role would be in a 4-2-3-1 using fluid attacking players. If you want to use DM’s as the two, then that only really leaves a space amongst the floating attacking players. And despite Beckham’s many attributes I don’t think he has the necessary skill set to act as a free floating attacker, his role was always fairly one dimensional (and extremely effective). Personally I couldn’t ever see RB being a long term option.
Why did he leave? I wouldn’t say that form was the only reason but I think this notion that some have that it was solely a Fergie vendetta is flawed. The media circus had built up to horrendous levels around him impacting on him and the team, he has passed his peak as a player, his replacement had proved more than capable in his absence and a marquee player was set to arrive to replace the lost creativity (Ronaldinho). And of course personal aspects would have played a part. Anyways there is quite an interesting article on the situation from the time.
Beckham sells plenty of shirts, but Ferguson is in the business of winning
October 14th, 2008 at 23:05
@JB: Yeah, I agree for the most part with your analysis, except that I’ll just add that even though he was indeed past his best, if he could regain some form, he could still do the job and be a valuable player to have in a team. I would have swapped that Beckham of the wane for Nani and Park today.
Part of the problem for me is that Beckham became a caricature of himself at the time. In his best season, his playing bore resemblance to what Veron was doing at Lazio in midfield (which left me baffled why Veron came in, when I thought Beckham in midfield could do that job), pinpoint long distance passes, through balls, crosses, shots, etc. By the time media circus took over he was pass a few, run a bit, try to put the cross in, basta.
Perhaps the media circus affected his game, but then considering Fergie’s tactical limit (now don’t go contesting that, everybody knows he’s a bit tactically limited
), he wouldn’t have been able to convert Becks into a new positiion. 4-2-3-1 was copyrighted Quieroz btw, if i’m not mistaken and it only really ticked when Ronaldo came to prominence. For a few years the 4-2-3-1 seemed unnatural and I remember most people begging to come back to the 4-4-2. And we did play much better in 4-4-2 during the transitional years.
But somehow, it seems to me that Fergie had made up his mind about Beckham, the spiceboy would have never been part of his stalwart protégés as are Scholes, Gaz and Giggs.
I’m disappointed how Beckham ended up. Even when he left Madrid we could see he wa still a very good player, and could turn out world-class on a good day. But somehow he went to that graveyard which is the MLS. I’ll always wonder how Beckham would be welcomed if he turned up to play at OT… And there’s no doubt that the Man Utd board should be indepted to him to have brought to our cause a great number of fans. Some(or many) of them might have been plastics, but I bet that many stayed loyal.
And about the witch Victoria, I can’t really fault her. I mean, she’s nothing like Britney or Paris is she, and they truly love each other those two, I wonder if Cheryl and Cashley will be able to maintain the same longevity (for celebrities, that is).
The only real thing which left me appalled in Beckham’s behaviour is his befriending of that crazy guy Tom Cruise.
October 14th, 2008 at 23:35
@Nico QB: I just want to pick up on a couple of points on the tactical areas. The 4-2-3-1 got its first sustained outing in 2002-03 (when CQ was assistant manager in his first spell) and was a rip-roaring success in the run in, using Scholes, Giggs and Ole as a three man supporting attack with RVN. You are correct in that the myriad of European formations didn’t work well during 2004 and 2005, although I’m of the opinion that this was due to the player pool not being as strong as it was in either 02-03 or 06-07 rather that any inherent limitations with the formations/style.
The other point was with regards to Beckham being converted positionally. I don’t think it matters what SAF’s tactical ability was, IMO Beckham didn’t have either the flexibility or adaptability to reinvent himself as a free floating attacker. You couldn’t really see him popping up on the right one minute, interchanging with the left winger the next and then moving into the hole behind the striker. It isn’t meant as a criticism of him, but his style wasn’t really like that.
Finally on Victoria, I just want to clarify that I don’t think she is a bad person or anything like that, I just don’t think that ‘Brand Beckham’ was above a bit of spin and media manipulation when it suited.
October 14th, 2008 at 23:51
@Nico QB: I agree with your sentiments in your post on Beckham mate. Also with your comments on Fergie as a tactician
.
The Cole’s and Beckhams are very good friends, and Victoria was a great advisor to Cheryl during Numb Nuts Ashley’s several infidelities with loose women
. Cheryl has a completely different mentality to Victoria over Money though, she is more interested in building a family life, than the Cole empire according to her many interviews in tv/newspapers etc. She is worth several millions of her own, and does not use Ashley’s plastic. ,
October 15th, 2008 at 21:35
Signing Berbatov was the mistake, his laziness makes me sick. Tevez is as good as Rooney and better than Berba. Tevez scores in the really important matches and he is the hardest worker United have. Go back to Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez and let the good times roll!
October 15th, 2008 at 21:40
Don’t forget if United don’t sign him there’ll be no shortage of takers. Real, Barca and Inter will be top of the que and dare I day it – Chelsea and Man City would love to have him
October 16th, 2008 at 8:56
I have mixed feelings about this. It won’t be easy trying to satisfy all the strikers in the team. Unless Berbatov, Rooney, Tevez & Ronaldo could all play on the same field together, someone will be rotting on the bench. No matter what Fergie says, he won’t be able to keep all his strikers happy unlike the 98-2000 era. Those days, Yorke & Cole started most of the games leaving Solskjaer & Sheringham on the bench. Fortunately, Solskjaer and Sheringham accepted their roles in the team. Tevez,is a player who every top club in this world would like have with them. It just doesn’t make sense if he’s left to rot on the bench. I am waiting to see what fergie’s reaction will be to Tevez’s claim that his goals have dried up because of the way he’s been asked to play at the club.
October 16th, 2008 at 14:26
32mn seems bit too much for most of the readers but the thing is that these days the transfer prices are only so hyped up that you can’t help it..we paid 30mn for a 28 yr old kinda lazy player(don’t get me wrong he’s still a great player)so why can’t we pay just about the same amount for a player 4 yrs younger to him and has a potential to become maybe better than berba!!!