Sep 01
The Tuesday Theory: Time for extended Foster-Care?
I have a secret to admit – I love the attitude of seventeen year olds. Cocky? Arrogant? I’ve always believed that confidence should exceed talent by a simple 2:1 ratio. When the sun-earth-moon align, the solar eclipse can blind one with power and beauty. However, in my opinion, there is nothing uglier than when vision-reach-grasp align.
I know that Van der Sar set EPL records with his shutout streak last season. I know that his positioning exudes confidence. But I also saw the Champions League final – he was beat nearpost on the first goal, and did not even anticipate or make an attempt at Xavi’s cross for the second. In short, the rust showed itself against quality opposition. Van der Saar is also no spring chicken at 38.
Enter Ben Foster. At 26 years of age, he is about to enter his prime. While a goalie can last until his mid-40′s, the decline in athleticism manifests itself in subtle ways. Goalies cheat on their angles. Anticipation becomes trepidation. Not so long ago, an aging German goalkeeper got red-carded in a Champions League final, losing his job the following season to an up-and-coming Spaniard.
Foster played a crucial role in Watford’s climb to the Premiership summit. He also found a creative use for the ipod: predicting penalty kicks, and used his technology savvy to guide United to a League Cup. Could this be Foster’s breakout year?
I know what your thinking – the last young, athletic, confident goalkeeper lost his nerves in a crucial Champions League home-tie. But Foster has shown excellent decision-making thus far into the season. While most young goalkeepers try to catch every cross, he has held his line when called upon. However, unlike Van der Saar, he has the vigor and legs to come off his line in a flurry.
While an argument could be made for Foster failing to reach the Arshavin blast this past Saturday, in that same game he pulled off a fantastic save on Van Persie. I don’t believe that two wrongs make a right, but his stop was a turning point in the game for United. When was the last time Van der Sar stood on his head to turn a tie?
Granted, Van der Saar did make the save on Anelka’s penalty-kick to give United the Champions League title. But sentimentality and sport go together like water and oil. Football is a young man’s game, and Foster surely deserves a run of games to prove his worth.
Elliott is the editor of Futfanatico.com
Related items from Red Rants:
- links for 2010-01-19
- Links for 2010-01-20
- United Look For Winning Return At Swansea
- Can Foster Capitalise On Lucky Break?
- Fergie’s Cleverley About-Face
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (485)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (346)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Craig Mc: @Traverse: @Dan: If anything Gibson is actually shutting out opportunities for even more talented up-and-coming Central midfielders!
James, for one.
Ok, maybe not (his mule of a kick made me revise my opinion of him!)
I hope that for the sake of Cathcart (and Gibson – but hopefully not) that this is not the same Newcastle that sat Rossi down on the bench for an odd season.
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@Craig Mc: Haha. Fan is a big word for my feelings towards Foster.
But I do appreciate the lad, and I’m firmly in the give-him-his-chance camp.
If he played for Arsenal or (god forbid!) the dippers he would have been hailed as the future, or make that the present of the england national team, but we all know the story here.
People seem to forget that even the great Van der Sar had a crap start to the previous season (I think) and some were calling for his head.
But true, I thought that the post of Elliott Tuckers’, other than being well written, was also well thought of, something he didn’t achieve when he first crashed unto this site.
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@NicoQB: end this comment with a
please!
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I see there are not too many Foster fans on here, but I respect the tone of the opinions and also not being called a pouncer
I am obviously a Foster fan, but the Arshavin blast surely was not as bad as getting wrong-footed nearpost in the Champions League final. For all the talk of fundamentals and experience, I find that lapse to be crucial and perhaps indicative of a decline.
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Its amazing that people think that Foster has poor footwork. Admittedly his footwork against Chelseas was not the best, but I think those people should be given a dose of Kuzcak or Bosnich to remind them of actually what is really poor footwork.
Even Van der Sar is known to belt dodgy back passes into the near crowd..
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@Elliott: What’s a pouncer, sir?
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@NicoQB: I think he meant ‘ponce’ but I’d rather he explain it himself.
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@Elliott: Wrong footed for the final – was that the Eto’o goal?
As I thought that Eto’o stroke it well. Tall goalkeepers dread the low ball just a foot or so away from either leg, as they rarely have got the reflexes for the leg save (Foster v/s Van Persie) or the Schmeichel lightning dive.
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@NicoQB:
VDS had a poor final, and was partly at fault for both goals.
The first, he was beaten near post, no excuses, it shouldnt have gone in.
The second, he had enough time to come out for the ball, he didnt, then he moved his arm away instead of trying to save the messi(smallest man on the pitch) header.
But nothing was made of this.
Foster kicks the ball in the wrong direction, hes useless and a liability.
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@NicoQB: Hardly, they are different type of players, and if anything, james isnt ready for the 1st team.
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@Dan: Actually VDS has had his share of criticism. I remember Grognard pinning some blame on EVDS for the Messi goal. However, almost everyone was crap on that day.
In fact, when our clean sheet streak was ended and we started conceding goals in a hurry, a lot, and I mean A LOT of people were questioning if EVDS deserved any credit for the clean sheet thing. So he has got his share of criticism. It’s just that you are so pissed off at people criticising Ben Foster that you’ve decided to overlook the criticism levelled at EVDS and say nothing was made of it.
The reason he gets less stick is because of his experience and the fact that he put an end to our goal keeping problems (ever since Schmeichel left). For most part of his tenure at the club he’s been decent, due to which he’s built up a fair amount of credit.
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@ Craig, sorry mate no news reguarding Gibson except the Sport.Co.Uk!? Story. Thought that since you’re tyneside, you might have a better insight. Got to say i’d be disappointed to see him go. And i’d have thought that if that was Fergies’ plan maybe he’s suddenly seen the HOLE in midfield. Also i’d have thought that Wolves would be a better option for the lad, seeing as he’s been successfull there already and it’d be prem experience. Saying that i’d love to see him more involved definitely as a sub initially. He’s got loads to improve but at least he’s got that “Gordon Mc Queen” special shot, which is usually on target, which is more than most of our midfield have to offer. Leaving out Nani, cos he does like to have a go too!
@ Elliot, Good article, it begs to give the lad a chance, he definitely deserves that. I think, like some other players in the squad, Foster needs a run of good games to build confidence. A goalkeeper especially needs to be assured and confident, this is gained in time. We’ll just have to see how much time it’ll take.
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@Dan: James, I feel is more complete. Better passer and creativity, guts and just as dangerous when it comes to rattling the onion bag.
Would have been a cert for Young player of the year last year if not for Kiko’s late explosion.
@Dan: Agree about VDS underwhelming final but then I don’t begrudge him since the whole team was definitely 2nd rate that night.
@Red Ranter: I always thought Barthez was made a scapegoat for our defensive problems. He was more than ok until a dodgy 3 months resulting in that famous CL exit. Vidic and Ferdinand he didn’t have.
But then again he was definitely a loon. But a bloody talented one!
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Good night everybody!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZJXkh88oM
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@NicoQB: Wrong, gibson is the more complete player as he is a good attacker and a good defender.
James is just an attacker in my eyes, so gibson is the more complete player.
James has a lot of potential that said, i hopes for him. But thte likees of cleverly and hewson also have potential, its really down to the one that takes there chance when given.
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@Red Ranter:He gets criticism, but nothing like foster.
Do you think the criticism of foster has been dished out fairly?
It seems all his haters will call him every name under the sun when he kicks it the wrong direction, but when he produces magnificent saves, its always, yea it was a good save, but hes still (insert insult here).
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@Red Ranter: in our previous discussions I think we both agreed that we lacked a creative midfeilder, the transfer window has come and gone without SAF addressing this problem so in my opinion the time has come for the gaffer to cut the reigns on Anderson and let him show us what he can do. We paid 17 million for a 19 year old who was widely regarded as one of the best young attacking midfielders in the world, hence the price tag and in his time here he has shown glimpses of brilliance and plenty of enigmatic performances.
The boy needs a run of 20 to 30 games were he is allowed to express himself, he might just be the answer that we are looking for, coz he has pace, power, good control and dribbling skills and at his previous clubs he showed that he can create and and score goals.
I think the kid deserves a better chance that what SAF has given him, and I think that he has been badly handled during his two seasons with us. He certainly cant do any worse than our other midfield options who even at thier best are not much more than functional players, Anderson can be as functional as them any day of the week, but something tells me that there is an untapped level to Anderson that could bring a spark that is lacking in our game, its time to see if he is the real Mccoy or just hype.
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@Dan:
Of course people have been gentler on EVDS. It’s because of his established pedigree. Foster is yet to achieve the success EVDS has so far. One is a seasoned campaigner whilst the other is the upstart. You can’t expect both to be treated the same way. More often than not, EVDS has been decent, and at times excellent. Which is why people have been forgiving of his shortcomings.
Foster was lavished with praise when he performed very well for us against Derby, and the Carling Cup final.
I think a lot of people have called it as they saw it with Foster. You have a problem with a select few people on here who haven’t liked him from day one. But many of them here, including me, have been supportive of him but have been equally critical when we saw some of the mistakes he made. It’s hard to be objective when you take to someone so much that you begin to take it personally when someone attacks your favourites. I’ve seen that with you when it comes to Foster (or some big youth prospects that you rate), with Craig when it comes to Nani, Anderson with Eddy (although he takes it much better than most) and with Grog it is when it comes to Ballack or Huntelaar.
I find it hard to debate in those situations because the other person gets emotionally attached to him that it becomes harder to get critical of him without offending the other.
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@Fred The Red: I understand where you’re coming from regarding Anderson, But I think he has regressed ever since his first season. Whilst a good run might help my gut tells me he’s not the answer – he seems far too inconsistent for me. Not that my gut feeling means anything.
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@Red Ranter: my gut feeling tells me we have no better options at the minute so it might be worth the gamble, but SAF appears not to trust our young players anymore and opts for the safe option over the wrisky and it is this attitude that I see as the biggest threat to our success this season. I do believe that we have the squad to win the league this year, but it remains to be seen wether SAF has the vision to get the best out of it, could go either way, which is why I always qualified my positive comments with lets wait and see.
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@Fred The Red: As I’ve said, the strange thing with this United side (something the Guardian’s Rob Smyth touched upon) is we have a good squad, but a questionable starting XI. I know that doesn’t make sense, but that’s what I feel about this side.
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@Red Ranter: theres some merit in what he is saying, and it makes this season a very strange one indeed becuase both options are a real possibilty, top four finish and last 16 in Europe or a team oriented Championship win were everybody plays a part without being aided by superstar players, the third option is one that I hope that we have to many good players to become a reality.
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@Fred The Red: You probably got a point Fred. As RR thinks Anderson has regressed, I thought Nani had too, but I think he is proving he has the skills there to do good things for the team, but it begs the question, does a players game and playing skills lie LATENT when they don’t have a good run of games to express themselves. What Nani has been showing in the few games he has played so far, are those marvelous thru balls that put our strikers one on one with the GK’s. As he did for Owen, and for Berba against Le Arse. Nobody who saw Nani’s showboating against Arsenal in his 1st season, can have any doubt that the lad has innate talent. Bringing it out is SAF’s and the coaching staff’s job. Now in view of that, I wonder whether Andi has lost what he thrilled many of the fans with in his 1st season, which inspired the United Anderson song, or whether it is just lying latent from not being given a good run of games. I think Andi’s problem is that he will not show a work ethic in training, take his game seriously, with a determination to improve it. That is what SAF is mad about, and has told him that to get more game time, he has to put the work in on the training ground, and show more all round effort. That way any latent talent he has will start to exhibit itself again
.
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@Fred The Red: I don’t think it has anything to do with SAF not trusting the young players Fred, but rather that we have not had the best start to the season performance wise so far. Although I personally loved the Wigan game 2nd half especially, and the Arsenal game for end to end stuff. Because we needed the points at Wigan, he wasn’t going to play the kids, and I agree with that decision. Against Arsenal was another must win game, in the sense that SAF said he didn’t want a repeat of us not taking points of the other top 3 again this season. Especially as we had vital players missing in defence, so it was makeshift. Once the games start to flow again, the kids will get their opportunities, but he may wait until the Carling cup against Wolves, keeping the experienced players for the Spurs and City games.
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@Redrich: It’s funny how I said after the game that I thought Foster played the Arshavin shot poorly and I got criticized for it. Now you and others including Fergie have come out to verify my original findings. Yet another case of me being right I think. The sooner EVDS is back manning the pipes, the better I will feel. And I have given up on any sensible fantasies like Neuer or Adler ever wearing United red.
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@NicoQB: Rensing is awful and I am a hard core Bayern fan and he’s been getting it from me for a lot longer than Foster has. However, in his worst days, he’s still technically far superior to Foster although Foster is a better shot stopper.
Just so this German bias ends, My top ten keepers in the world, only two are German. That’s two out of ten,not nine out of ten.
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@NicoQB: They are both shite, so what’s your point? United’s backup keepers are shite. There is Shite #1 known as FOSHITE. And there is Shite #2 known PIGSHITE.
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@Dan: Lets not forget that Evra was the root cause of both goal scoring opportunities. One a giveaway and the other not coming back fast enough to cover his area. I blame the Skinned Sausage for both. And damn it, I also blame Ben Foster. Why not?
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@Red Ranter: I am an EVDS fan and always have been but even I have thought he was well past his best. I actually found him at partial blame for both of those goals in the final but I also thought he was our best player having made 4 or 5 world class saves to keep us in it. I’ll never forget that day and how badly we played after they scored the first goal. It’s like somebody hit the kill switch and we al went into a deep sleep.
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@Fred The Red: Well yes, this is a squad that will be selected on a best possible basis. It might not have to be that way had we’d used the Ronaldo cash for a MF’er or/and a Striker and perhaps a proven Goalie.
I certainly do see a squad of youngsters that show some potential, and with a little love and nurturing they may possibly be the future of this team!
However, the idea of blooding the full squad of players that could rejuvenate our starting eleven (lacking badly in CMF, Forward, Goal Keeper and perhaps at wide right defender) could literally take years to accomplish, and in the meantime the club, our club, will be dealt a firm blow of mediocrity!
In the modern game, mediocrity doesn’t suit the best players. Their worth and psyches are polished by the success they achieve at the club level, and in no uncertain terms, they will take the easy hike to a well paying club that will acheive this for them!
I would like to see Rooney spend the rest of his career with United, to me he is one of the best players England has produced in years. But how long will it take for him to look at calmer waters, take the big cash, go to a better climate and basically do the whole Beckham thing.
If we were to introduce these youngsters, one by one, being shepherded in by experienced, top notch players, this transformation would make sense. But the lack of class players throughout our ranks would not make this not possible!
There was a lot of hand wringing here today about the rumor (spread by Craig) that Gibson was to go on loan. My god, what has it come to when we fear the loss of a very young, unproven, midfielder.
So I say this. Are we just doing the best possible, or are we simply scraping the bottom of the barrel!
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@Phoenix Red: Chris Hughton is saying that Cathcart hasn’t been signed yet, but that he is more than hopeful of United agreeing to the full season loan agreement. The N’castle fans are very agreeable to this, as they rate Cathcart and think he will do a job for them. They absolutely love Darren Simpson since they got him on loan, and Hughton again says that he is doing a real man’s job for them. He had him play centre half in the last two games because of shortage of personel, and says for a 5ft 9in player Simpson is very good at the spring leaping reqd for Central defending. That is why they want Cathcart, so Simmo can go back to his natural full back game. No mention at all of Gibson loan, but it is mentioned on N’castle web forums! I would be amazed if SAF agrees to a Gibson loan!
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@Dan: Dan, if there is anyone who has been fair with Foster it is me. You may laugh at that but I urge you to go back and read my posts after his great Carling Cup game last year and after the Birmingham and Wigan games this year when i gave him credit and praise where he deserved it. Nobody ever remembers those instances because when I am negative that seems to resonate a lot louder. Maybe it’s because deep down, most people actually agree with me that he is just not good enough. So be his champion but trust me at the end of the day, it won’t be my sword that skewers him, it will be Fergie’s
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@Red Ranter: You forgot Riquelme.
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@Craig Mc: a blind man on a galloping horse could see the talent that Nani had, good feet, pace, skill and a great delivery. What he didnt have was consistency and the knowledge of how to use his attributes in the most effective way, thats normal for a young player, but that only changes with games, not one or two hear and one or two there, that was alright in his first season, but last season Nani should have been our starter on the left from the start of the season and then we would have seen significant progress in the mental side of his game to compliment his many skills.
Instead SAFs use of the boy was nothing short of disgraceful and the same applies to Andy, we are still asking questions now that should have been answered last season, instead we seen far to much of the painfully average Park and the out of position Rooney.
I sincerely hope that SAF leaves Nani in the team for a while, he is showing signs of going in the right direction and he is forming a good understanding with Evra, leave him alone and let him grow and do the same with Andy. I dont think that they regressed as players, they simply never had the right opportunity improve from thier first seasons showings, which in turn caused a dip in form and confidence, the talent is most definately still there, its up to the gaffer to bring it out, heres hoping, the little man could be a very important player for us this year mate if hes left alone.
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@Grognard: Well I wish I was there to back you up. Had a nightmare of a week (nuff said) and initially saw the game on very interrupted P2P links.
Before I fall into the ranks of “Foster Haters”, I’d like to give him more of a look. TBH, and apart the couple of games we saw of him last year, I don’t know what to think yet. The next two games will be a good watermark for him (and the whole team, really), I’ll have a better perspective then.
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@Redrich: The reason I mentioned Gibson mate, is nothing to do with losing him, but more to do with the fact that SAF said the reason he wasn’t giving more game time to Carrick and Anderson was because they were very impressed with Gibson and wanted to further develop and bring him on this year. However I do like Gibson, and feel it would be mad, when we have NOT so many options in midfield to let him go out on loan, when he is one of the youngsters who was given 1st team experience last season. BY the same token I feel the same way about Cathcart, because we don’t have much back up in defense, when Rio, Vida, Red Nev, Brown, and Evans are often injury casualties.
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@Red Ranter: I totally agree with that. In fact I don’t think another team in world football have as much or as good a depth as we have. Our second eleven could finish in the top 8 clubs in the EPL as far as I’m concerned. But we lack those truly skillful world class stars in the midfield. We lost Mr ALL Universe and we replaced him with a couple of projects and a previous world class player who I think I’m accurate in saying is not the Michael Owen of old. For me the only world class players presently on our club are Rio, Vidic and Rooney. To not have a single world class player in our midfield is folly and an absolute disgrace. And that more than anything is what defeats us. Because quality and skillful midfielders can often make adequate strikers better than they really are because of the regular and consistent service they provide.
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@Redrich: I agree. One thing with keepers is that they need to play in order to improve. I see too many flaws in his game to ever believe he could become world class, but I am willing to stick it out with him as opposed to seeing PIG instead. But as soon as EVDS is fit and ready, enough with Foster I say.
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@Fred The Red: A blind man on a galloping horse –
. I hope SAF does keep Nani in this season Fred, and consider him one of his regular starters – we shall see. Anyway – I bid you goodnight mate, I need to go and hit my bed 
.
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@Redrich: I dont quite know myself, I see potential, but I also see pitfalls, and its a strange way to feel.
With the right handling we could maintain our top class status, but a couple of bad decisions could be painful. Missing out on Benzema was a blow and deep down I feel at least one good signing would have helped us greatly. As much as I hate to say it, I feel that the return of Hargreaves could be a very important moment for us, heres hoping.
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@Craig Mc: Well mate, SAF will do what he will do. Gibson (or anybody else, come to think of it, seeing we’ll probably need them) should be nurture and introduce into our starting ranks. But it shouldn’t be critical to the success or failure of United this year. I think that was my point.
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@Fred The Red: Hargo could save our season, but I wouldn’t bank on it.
Someone coming back from his kind of surgery will be treated with kid gloves initially, and then he has to regain him fitness, and then he has to regain his form (if he can).
So, to me, best poss is that he could help us in the spring, if we are still contending!
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@Redrich: I think we have enough about us to be contending by the spring but it would take a brave man to predict what way our season will bounce, Im hoping that somehow the gaffer will find the right mix to make us successful, I think we just about have the right parts, its just a case of blending them together, but I doubt it will be a vintage season, more of a funcional one one.
Good nite and God Bless.
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@Fred The Red: Good nite Fred, you have sweet dreams, while I entertain the horror show of my nightmares!!
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@Red Ranter: If we are not going get the ‘Spcial One’then I am all for the Baby face Assasin. I mean he is United through and through and he has right philosophy.. But … DREAM on…..
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@Redrich: SAVE our season? It hasn’t been lost yet mate. Hardly four games in to the season.
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indescribable boredom..
ugly football.. 
No flair players 
.. Life sucks 
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Sad times indeed when I can objectively say I don’t expect united to win any thing this season, sad sad day. I had expected fergie to pull a rabbit out of his hat yesterday but I’ll have to be content with fletcher and whatever skillfully skint,mediocre player fergie put in the midfield to join him, or better still, be treated to an incredible lineup at OT of five midfielders, hell bent on defending to stop the likes of chelsea and liverpool and every other european team from playing. Yep, that’s what united have been reduced to, instead of outplaying the opposing team and dominating them, our first objective is to stop the other team from playing and then hopefully get a goal at the break. Tactics reminiscent of watford or second tier teams playing against premiership teams.
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Well the doom and gloom continues from some quarters of our fanbase which without one over paid paid greedy foreigner to grace the pitches of beloved OT is that such a bad thing looking at what other clubs have done this summer.
This summer in the Premier league I have seen Joleon Lescott being transfered for £24m, Adebeyor £28.3m, Santa Cruz £18-19m, an injured Aqualani being bought for £18m sweet baby Jesus even Lee Catermole was sold for £6m.
Our summer expenditure was pretty much £20m, Valencia I suppose was the safe option proven in the Premiership but not exactly mouth watering, Gabriel Mekonhead is an unproven punt, Mame Biram Diouf again somewhat of a punt and Owen on a free which is either superb business or our only true realistic option available.
There are two schools of thought with the lack of big names coming to United this summer some think that Fergie is to blame, which to me is bizarre as any manager who has funds available does tend to spend what is available to him unless his name is Wenger who has faith in talents like Bendtner and Eboue, probably the reason he has not won anything for such a long time. For me Fergie has always spent money, we have a reputation of over spending, Berba £30m, Carrick £18m, Nani and Anderson £35m combined, Veron when Lazio owed us money still on the Stam transfer, Rio when Leeds were on the verge even Ronaldo was silly money at the time, for a relative unknown.
The second school is that we simply do not have the money to spend or let we word this one differently, Fergie doesn’t have the money to spend we have a debt of near on £700m and this needs sevicing with heavy repayments to the interst on the loan.
The Glaziers have had a large windfall, £80m cash from the Ronaldo transfer, not intalments all cash a good deal really considering the players heart was no longer at the club and desperatly wanted to leave. But a good deal for who? The fans?, Not really we lost our best player and for many a favourite, for Fergie? Not at all he lost his match winner and the player who he set his team around, a good deal for the Americans as the have pretty much won the lotto.
My take is the latter, Fergie has not been allowed to spend the money bestowed onto the club as we are in a World wide reccession, the Glaziers have been hit by this and the debt is certianly not getting snaller and the majority of the debt has been secured against OT and Carrington.
Fergie isn’t entirely balmeless I agree, but he is in sniffing distance of his lifes work of overtaking Liverpool championship titles and he does not want to rock the boat he is also a big fish in an even bigger pond and enjoys the control the Glaziers obviously allow him, I have people saying that Fergie would not accept this and would walk out of the club, why?
Fergie is a workaholic, he is the fist person at the training ground and is the first to leave, he loves the club so there would be no chance of him leaving for another and his desire to overtake Liverpool in my mind is the reason why his tactics of laste have been somewhat less carefree and more win at all costs as he is aware time is running out for him.
In conclusion the lack of signings might be a not be a bad, Anderson, Nani, Gibson, Welbeck, Macheda, the Da Silva’s, Da Laet ect will hopefully get their chance to shine and I certainly would prefer “one of our own” playing for us than an inport who is soley only at the club for the money, remeber Barca won the treble last seaosn with someting like six or seven homegrown players in their starting eleven.
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Good points, Stephen. I think our lack of spending is probably explained by three factors:
-the transfer fees this summer have been very high
-the board wants to curb spending a bit
-Ferguson has great faith in the youngsters
The third point makes me look forward to this season with great interest.
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