Oct 06
Thoughts on Blackburn and the Weekend action
The good news for the other Barclays Premier League clubs is that Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves are injured and Cristiano Ronaldo has yet to find his best form. The bad news is that Wayne Rooney and Dimitar Berbatov are starting to hit the high notes, Darren Fletcher and Anderson are no mugs in central midfield, Ryan Giggs continues to defy the years, Rio Ferdinand appears to be impregnable at the back and Ronaldo will start destroying the opposition, as he did so often last season, soon.
This was a glimpse of the future. For 11 minutes here, Manchester United’s forward line read Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez, Cristiano Ronaldo and Dimitar Berbatov, the first time the fab four have been fielded together. It was short-lived but the quartet sparkled both individually and collectively, suggesting they will soon become the world’s most devastating attack.
As you would have observed by now, the theme of our victory has been fairly consistent across the board. It’s rather convenient to bring up the buzzwords — or should we say buzz-phrases, or rather, buzz-analogies?; the Berbatov-Cantona comparisons, the “mouth-watering fearsome-foursome” — all seem rather made up and artificial to me personally. I must admit, I did fall victim to use of such comparisons, but now it just looks little bigged-up, so to speak, by everyone looking to see such an array of top class talent strut their stuff, all at once, on the field.
One can’t blame them though; after all who wouldn’t want to see Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo and Berbatov tear the opposing defenders to bits with some mazy interplay? Of course, the question would be asked to fans of sides who are neither our title rivals nor the opposition in question. But the chances of us seeing all four at a time from the start seems a little remote. And Ferguson will have to call upon his famed man management skills to the fore to ensure we are still a team of very good artists performing in harmony — not a set of sulking soloists looking to pitch their compositions at the expense of the symphony. Poorly constructed analogy, but point conveyed, one would hope.
At the moment, at least on Saturday’s evidence, we seem to have a happy bunch. And long may that continue.
Fergie, to everyone’s surprise, chose to start Rooney. Mind games or not, it looks a good indicator of who, between Tevez and Rooney, the manager rates higher. I thought it was unfair to bench Tevez considering we could take it easy on Rooney for the moment. But then, I would hope Fergie’s not making enemies in the dressing room with his team selections. Of course, I really don’t know how many managers can command the amount of respect and ability to manage dressing room egos, in today’s football — so if Fegie can’t do it, I don’t think we can find too many who can. But that’s how it was and Tevez started on the bench for the second game in succession.
But man management aside, I do think I could question Fergie’s tactics at times. Playing Rooney out wide makes little sense to me. Considering the presence of a proper target man, the stage is set for Rooney to do his thing in the “hole”. Thankfully he did get a bit more involved in the second half as he drifted into the middle.
Wes Brown must be a relieved man, though. And his celebration, after scoring the goal, was a sign of how badly he wanted to play — always good to see the hunger, which seemed a little absent at the start of the season, return to many of the players on display on Saturday.
But the performance, on the whole, was a bit iffy, despite the scoreline. We were sublime at times, and, at other times, we gave the ball away too easily. But I could excuse that because the weather was diabolical. It was pissing rain and, perhaps, Noah’s Ark might have seen better days.
But let me reserve a significant portion of my commentary for the attacking end, which, despite all the honours won in the past two seasons, is still — amazingly so — a work in progress. Actually, scratch that — our attack is evolving again, and this time, blossoming into something exciting and equally dangerous. It’s a different beast this, than the devastating one we saw last season. Note the word, different. If our last season’s attack was built upon tactical unpredictability — in terms of defenders being able to read and mark our attack — this season’s attack adopts a more traditional and classical touch, but with a pinch of the sublime added to it.
Both, Berbatov, and Rooney (at his best), are blessed with the deftest of touches. Ronaldo is no mug either. But a significant subtext to our attack — over the past week — is the blossoming of the “pairs”.
I mentioned Ronaldo and Berbatov could link up in a way that could be mouth watering, and Saturday saw a bit of that in great evidence. Berbatov’s vision can pick a pass to an on rushing Ronaldo in counter attacks and it did lead to our second goal. But I see promise in some excellent interplay if Ronaldo hits his high strides of last season. Ronaldo and Rooney are the second pair, and their link up play has been well documented over the past season — as well as against Bolton. The second goal on Saturday served as further evidence.
And finally Rooney and Berbatov. Much has been made about Rooney’s need for a target man to allow him some freedom in his favoured position. The pair has taken time, but are fast developing an understanding that could have already translated into several goals — but for some good goal keeping and a lack of luck. I cannot talk about yet another pair — Tevez and Berbatov, because I’ve seen precious little of that combination.
A triad (of Rooney, Berbatov and Ronaldo) however, could be devastating — but for most part we would attack in pairs.
But from pairs and triads, let’s talk about an individual. Dimitar Berbatov came for an inflated price — and for that I hope to hell Spuds get relegated. But we can already see what he is capable of and has done. A fully fit Louis Saha was a part of such attacking verve at the start of the 06/07 season (and even when Ruud was dropped in the tail end of the 05/06 season). Berbatov is a far fitter (fingers crossed) and a classier version of the Frenchman, and I see us getting only better from here on. As I’ve been saying for the past week or so.
Saturday made me feel happy, as Sunderland held Arsenal to a draw, but Sunday was gloomy, as City inexplicably let in three second half goals to give the dippers another sense of “self-belief” and all that motivational garbage. Watching City vs Liverpool is a strange feeling anyway. It’s like watching an ideological debate between Hitler and Osama bin Laden: you don’t know why you are watching it in the first place; you don’t know how, or whom to cheer; and even if one of them wins you really want the ground they are standing on to gobble them up.
So while my interest was piqued by their half time scoreline, I gave it a pass — partly assuming the ‘dippers will surely not win this one. I just couldn’t believe my eyes when I read about Dirk Cnut’s equaliser — I mean, how does he get time to make contact with the ball when he’s in the midst of his headless chicken routine around the pitch for a good part of the 90 minutes?
Oh well, I think I will have to get back to watching paint dry as the international break approaches. Cheerio.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd 2-0 Bolton: Ref Reprieve Earns Win
- Deadline Day Looms…
- Blackburn v Manchester United - Preview
- Neville and Carrick get married
- Rooney Out For A Month
Tags: Match Reports
October 6th, 2008 at 10:29
We are blessed, arent we?
I wonder what is going to happen in the near future. Which two of Tevez, Rooney and Berbatov are going to lead the line? When Hargreaves and Carrick get back, who are we going to play in the middle? Fletcher has done reall well so far, but Anderson is about to hit top gear. Hargro is injured almost all the time and Carrick is our best CM. Fletcher doesnt deserve to be dropped, but Anderson is much better and when he hits top gear lik elast season, it will be dangerous for Untied if Fergie decides to leave him out. And Nani? Does Fegrie rate Park and Giggs higher than him? Aginst Blackburn Park came on and Nani was stuck to the bench. He needs more games to get confidence and play better. Last season he played in all of our first 10 PL matches. The first game he stood out was against Arsenal at the Emirates. And Brown? After his goal, will Fergie see that Brown deeserves his spot as our first choice RB over Neville and Rafael? Hopefully Fergie makes the right decicion. Only the greatest manager in the world can do that! 
October 6th, 2008 at 10:32
Nice one R R, as usual you introduce a sober and calm appraisal of our club. Looking good for the future. I’d go as far to say, that this team could be the best ever, if we get our midfield sorted. And we could go all the way this year and win the treble! Come on you reds, in Alex we trust.
October 6th, 2008 at 10:50
Personally I think we did well considering the players we had out, I thought it was an odd one in playing Giggs through the middle and Rooney out wide, but it worked and Rooney is now slipping beautifully through the gears. You really have to wonder about Carlos and Nani, when will they ever get a run? If there were doubts over Rooney, why play him? I am glad we did he was superb but couldn’t last 90mins, and Giggs, well he played well against the Danish pub team we played but bar that he has been er inconsistant to say the least.
Do Nani and Tevez have a futre, personally I hope so because, Tevez gives everything and Nani has tremendous ability, my main worry is Andy, he was less than spectacular on Sat, and is he goung backwards or is it just a blip in form, I think the latter, but his form does need to recover soon.
October 6th, 2008 at 10:52
@RedDevilEddy: there’s plenty of football to be played and we’ll need cover in all those positions. For me, Hargo and Carrick in mid with Nani and Ronaldo on the wings, and Rooney, Berba up front is our best attack. Not forgetting Teves as our super sub! Its positively mouth watering!
Another combo that people havn’t been mentioning is Carrick and Berba, i for one cant wait to see our passing game with those two on the pitch together!
October 6th, 2008 at 11:02
Great article RR, well done.
@RedDevilEddy: sir alex has so many choices, but imho he rarely picks the bad ones. 
@phoenix red: carrick + berba = sounds delicious 
October 6th, 2008 at 11:02
@Stephen: i hear what you’re sayin about Anderson bro and i agree. Remember, he’s been playing alot of football and probably needs more time to fit into a defined role. If we want him to play as an AMF, then play him there. I think Fergie has given him differing roles for different games, much like Rooney! This lad will shine though.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:03
Great article.pity the international break is here. Watching the game on saturday really gave me a lot hope that the team is getting there. Its gelling and my i cant wait for west brom match. Hope that we dont get any casualties
October 6th, 2008 at 11:13
i feckin hate international breaks.
October 6th, 2008 at 13:05
I think we should start the quartet against the mid/lower table teams (tottenham??? :)) and have midfielders like Hargreaves/Anderson and Carrick to support them…It does not matter whether Rooney/Tevez start on the wings..The trio (Ronaldo,rooney and Tevez) can buzz around Berba and can terrorise any defense in this world…Against big teams Fergie have to make the decision and play a little more neutral team..
October 6th, 2008 at 14:09
Here fellas check this article on RVN it put a smile on my face!
October 6th, 2008 at 14:29
been a while…
the game was a testament to our bench strength more than anything else…
however i should contest the point you make RR about fergie’s selection of rooney over tevez..seeing the highlights it was pretty clear that rooney was asked to man the right side while ronaldo the left while giggsy was in the “hole”….here lies the point that as far as christmas socks go..having rooney as that sock is better than having tevez as the same…
what im trying to point out is that..in my eyes rooney was selected only because of his ability to play out wide..not saying tevez cant but whenever tevez has be deployed out wide even in west ham its been in the left wing..so it was more of a tactical decision more than choosing one over the other
btw enjoying daydreaming about our fab four together though the occasion which they come together might be rarer than anderson going forward( again something i see as a tactical decision rather than a personal choice)
October 6th, 2008 at 14:44
@TinManUnited: Ha! I was about to post the very same article by the masterful Tim Stannard.
Brilliant article by the way! Really gives some deserved credit to RVN’s name and I just lovvvve the fact that Real scum cant appreciate how truly great a player the have and how it seems that Ruud is not truly “one of them” as is Raul.
I still think that some of our tactics at the time were dumbed down because of RVN (not entirely his fault) but you’ve got to love the man: somehow I sense he regretted his bust up…
You’ll love the article, Grog!
October 6th, 2008 at 14:50
@Nico QB: How brilliant was it it when he jumped on Beckham and shouted United, during an interview with the Spanish press. They must have loved that. haha
October 6th, 2008 at 15:20
@TinManUnited: brilliant article, still sad horseface left for stupid real/
October 6th, 2008 at 15:27
Yeah it was a good RVN article illustrating the difference between us then and now. In those days we gave Ruud great service and he scored most of our goals. These days we have players who can be providers and scorers so we balance the goals across our forward line. But sometimes I do get frustrated when we create a ton of chances and I think to myself Ruud would have finished that one off
October 6th, 2008 at 15:27
@TinManUnited: @TinManUnited: I never knew about that one!
Found about it just today! Anyone got a youtube of this? Can’t seem to find it…
October 6th, 2008 at 17:21
@Nico QB: Ruud who?
Ever since the arrival of my new found love Dimitar Berbatov I have chosen to forget all strikers who came before him except of course for the King. Berbatov is such a pleasure to watch it makes me totally forget about how I missed RVN and how disappointed I was at not signing Klass Jan Huntelaar. RVN is fantastic but he now plays for the enemy and he is also too ancient to wish he was still playing for us. In Berbatov we have 4 or 5 years of artistry to drool over and really get excited about. The King is gone, Hail to the Count! 
How great is Berbatov? Just look at Spurs now.
October 6th, 2008 at 17:48
@Grognard: Oh, Berba’s the bee’s knees alright, but I thought that Ruud is showing tremendous longevity (compared with Henry; and Kluivert, who was born same day and same year than RVN), considering he’s Madrid’s most important player, and scoring like fun. And there’s no denying Madrid are scum, but Ruud seems above that as shown by his United joke in the Spanish interview.
Did you read the article? Stannard makes a good case of how RVN seems to good for Madrid scum!
I just wonder… Next season, or perhaps the season after… a certain slave will be off bernabeu… And with the current economic downfall, and slave unlikely to repeat last season’s heroics, the transfer tag is likely not going to be the 70million talked about… How about 50m+RVN?
Having the count, Roon and Tev(?) and a much stronger midfieldand defence than last time he was here would perhaps make it a very different game… Oh I’m just dreaming, huh?
October 6th, 2008 at 17:51
@Nico QB: No more drugs for that man!!
October 6th, 2008 at 17:52
As a Canadian who has been brought up on North American sports and leagues in football, hockey, baseball and basketball I have never fully been able to tolerate and handle footy’s need to continually interrupt domestic competitions with these absolutely ill timed and annoying international breaks. I mean really, can’t these teams get together at the end of a season and play 6 games in two to three weeks instead of interfering with the flow and momentum of a domestic league? People in North America just laugh at this and find it absolutely ridiculous and obstructive.
One might say that it needs to be done because seasons are too long and there is no time at the end of a season for star players to rest if there were 5 or 6 internationals. Well I say BOLLOCKS to that. How many weeks are lost to the season every year due to international interruptions? I’m going by memory but at least 4 or 5 weeks of league play is delayed due to this crap. Imagine if these internationals were not played and if the season’s schedule was restructured due to this. Season would end a full month earlier and there would be plenty of time for national sides to play their qualifying games as well as a friendly or two and players would still have a 2 month vacation. You would play enough games over this summer break as to make sure that no interruptions other than perhaps one two or three week break around Christmas took place. That would allow national teams a chance to make up 2 or 3 games every year and give teams a rest from the cold and a break for the holidays. There is so much going on for folks at Christmas that even fans need a break from the domestic campaign in order to get their shit done and prepare for Christmas or any holiday celebration in their given religion.
This garbage has just got to stop. Leagues need to stop being held hostage by these international schedules that rudely interrupt a teams play, development, buildup of momentum and natural seasonal progression. How many times have we seen United play a strong opponent after an international break and it has cost us? It’s not the same for everybody. United is a team build around all star players from many countries. They all go out and play for their countries and then they all fly back knackered and fatigued and it affects the club. Lesser clubs don’t lose so many players to international duty. And is there anything worse, and I mean anything worse than losing a star player for an extended time because he picked up an injury while playing for his country? At least if all these games happened after the season ended, the player would have two to three months to recover fully from an injury and the chances of that injury impacting his domestic club would be minimal. It just makes more sense to me to tighten the domestic schedule and allow for 4 weeks at the end of a season for international duty. Enough games can be combined in that period as well as the Christmas break to give the national team the time to play enough games to qualify both fro the World Cup and the Euros.
As for international qualifying groups, make more of them with fewer teams. Have only 4 or 5 teams per group which would allow for fewer games needed to be played and then have a playoff between the worst of the second place teams. I don’t see why a team needs to play close to a dozen games to qualify for a tournament. Hell, it’s usually always the same teams anyway. A smaller group with fewer games may lead to more surprises. Fewer games, more surprises and less weeks interrupted during and after a season. Makes sense to me. FIFA, UEFA need new leadership with bold thinking to realize that these present day systems and schedules are just totally for the birds. Wake up and smell the coffee and some common sense. And stop ruining and delaying the domestic game with this international scheduling that borders on intrusive breach of authority. Domestic teams should not have to stand for this crap considering they are the ones paying for the players wages as well as for their medical bills. It’s not winning situation for them. It’s plain wrong.
October 6th, 2008 at 18:03
Found this on Manutd.com:
“…In other news, the Daily Mirror report that the Reds were pioneering a new brand of in-flight entertainment on their plane home from Aalborg last week. Instead of the traditional game of cards, Carlos Tevez, Patrice Evra and Ji-Sung Park took part in a version of playground pastime scissors, paper and stone which involved the loser being whacked hard around the head!…”
October 6th, 2008 at 18:06
@Nico QB: RVN’s longevity has been because of the way in which he plays. It was alluded to in the article. He gives minimal effort because he plays like an old school striker. Too many people look at players like him and Berba and call them lazy. It’s so untrue. They know how to pace themselves and not waste energy doing things that are not demanded of their position (are you reading this Wayne Rooney). They also know how to be in the right place at the right time. Most of that is a gift and a sixth sense that cannot be taught. It’s the infamous goal poacher’s instinct. Ruud has it big time and Berby also possesses it but not to the same extent. Like the great and god-like Gerd Mueller, RVN has had the instinct and good timing to be at the right place at the right time and he has scored so many garbage goals, sitters and tap ins that his stats have been stacked because of the incredible good fortune he creates for himself. This is why I love Huntelaar so much. He is of the very same makeup except he can also score incredible goals too. But neither of them have the touch, vision, imagination and passing ability that Berbatov has. Against Blackburn I counted 4 sure assists Berby should have had if it were not for our boys truly poor finishing. Giggs, Rooney, Fletcher and Ronaldo had fantastic chances to score due to great setups by Berbatov. RVN never had that many assist opportunities in an entire season. Ok, that’s an exaggeration designed to get my point across. I hope I have succeeded. Before his career is over Berbatov will go down as a god amongst United fans much like Best, Law, Charlton, Keane and Cantona. He’s that damn good and he will continue to get even better as he gets more comfortable with his teammates on the pitch. Hell, he may force Fergie to delay his retirement because the lad will have elevated United’s game so high that Fergie would be crazy to leave that kind of adrenaline rush behind for retirement and a rocking chair. Hail the Count!
October 6th, 2008 at 18:07
@Grognard: International football should be the most important thing in football. The domestic game should be the natural feeder for the national side, league football already has to much say and it is affecting the English side, they have too little time to prep for big international games.
I am a loyal England fan and always will be which as a United fan is rare, when England play in a major tournament the whole country gets behind the team, which brings unity to the country and patorism which this country really lacks.
To say there are no suprises is wrong, Greece won the Euro’s nobody thought that, England did not qualify for the world cup, and there have been times when Brazil have struggled to qualify.
The good thing is at least England are playing on the Sat and Wed, which eats less into the domestic season.
October 6th, 2008 at 18:12
@Nico QB: Haha I can imagine Evra being a real wiz at that game.
October 6th, 2008 at 18:19
Quick question guys… I was considering purchasing the new Fifa 09, and I wanted to know which console it performs better on, PS3 or 360? I heard they are the same, but one console must have gotten a better deal with regards to certain factors in the game… so if anyone knows better, pls fill me in. Cheers
October 6th, 2008 at 18:47
@TinManUnited: Hehe. Indeed.
But good thing Vida wasn’t playing!
October 6th, 2008 at 18:53
I’m bored!
sorry…
…ciao for now…
October 6th, 2008 at 18:59
Saw this on football365, good one!!
“What is the difference between Tottenham Hotspur and a triangle?
A triangle has 3 points.”
October 6th, 2008 at 19:26
@Gabriel: I would say 360, casue thats what I play.
Really dont know, but I think games on PS3 are the best. But FIFA was actually created for XBOX 360, so…
OOOOH! I hate international breaks!
Its so boring, no news and no action! 
I dont like to watch internationals, they are just boring! Id rather see United vs West Brom! Rooney scoring a goal. The only thing I care about when international games is: “Yo, if any of Uniteds peeps get injured, Im gonna smack the fat country managers head in the gangsta wall!” It buggers me.
October 6th, 2008 at 19:27
@TinManUnited:
October 6th, 2008 at 19:28
@TinManUnited: I have another one: What is the difference between Arsene “Wouyer” Wenger and a battery? The battery has a positive side!
October 6th, 2008 at 19:34
Why does birds gather at St. James Park? It is the only ground football is not played.
Why did Ronaldo leave for Milan? He likes italian food.
What is the difference between Chelsea and a comedian? Comedians attract people to watch them, Chelsea pay people to watch them.
What does is the difference between Grant and Ramos? Grant got sacked for winning, Ramos got hired for losing.
October 6th, 2008 at 21:41
@Grognard: My master! Is that optimism I see from you? Surely hell will break lose tommorow!
So I think that it is time that i succeed you!
What’s the difference between Nani and a football player? A football player passes the ball but Nani shoots it like he is Johnny Wilkinson!
October 6th, 2008 at 22:30
@Nico QB: Lol, from looking at training pics, it definitely seems that Evr and Tevez are the closest among the bunch.
@Red Diablo: Its been scaring me too, lately theres been too much positivity from Grog, WTH is going on?
October 6th, 2008 at 22:44
@Stephen: I agree Bro
.
October 6th, 2008 at 23:02
@Stephen: Sorry I don’t agree. I don’t believe that any domestic league or program should have to take second place to a tournament of all stars join up every two years and play no more than seven games that decides either a European or World Champion. It’s ridiculous because the players are not paid for their sacrifice and above all, the teams that provide these players are not paid nor are they taken care of if a serious injury ruins a player’s career or if it forces him to miss time for his local club.
Sorry but a league should be looked at and compared by all of us as similar to our everyday lives and jobs where on the other hand, an international tournament seems and feels like a vacation to me. National pride is nice but ask most people in Manchester whether they would prefer the World Cup or the Champions League or EPL and I think they would pick the club competitions. Why? Because every day they wake up they deal with the goings on with Manchester United or with Man City. It makes more of a difference and means more to them every day when they go out or when they pick up the paper or turn on their computer. It’s what they talk about on their lunch breaks or around the office water cooler. I know of many fans that hate international tournaments because they worry what it may do to their domestic teams future chances of success. Players come back knackered, injured and basically burnt out.
So you are more than welcome to your beliefs and views but you will be hard pressed in convincing the majority of others to share that opinion. I mean for God’s sake can I love a team more than United that has Gerrard, Lampard and both Cole’s on it as well as the Antichrist John Terry? I don’t think so. Give me a break mate
National pride is great but can also be very misguided. I’m more willing to understand territorial rivalry more when it deals with my actual back yard. Unless I am at war with another country, beating them doesn’t mean as much to me as when United beats Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea or Arsenal. Those games mean way more to me and I live in Canada. Even here in Canada I don’t really care about international hockey tournaments that Canada is involved in. Yes we like to win the hockey gold in the Olympics but Vancouverites would trade that in for hockey’s club holy grail known as the Stanley Cup any day of the week. We don’t feel like sharing the glory with other competitor cities in Canada. Just a different and more grounded view I think. 
Still, you are welcome to disagree. 
October 6th, 2008 at 23:06
@Gabriel: It’s been a pretty consistent and basic belief for a number of year that the 360 has been the better platform because it seems to have less problems with the graphics and loading times. However, you never know about the future but I have noticed that 9/10 times other games that are made for both consoles seem to perform better and get better rating s from the 360 side. Believe me I am showing know bias here because I have gone through 5 XBOX 360’s before I finally bought a second generation one that supposedly prevents the red ring of death. As for myself, I prefer the 360 and I have always preferred the XBOX controller over both the PS2 and PS3. So for what it’s worth, I would go with the 360. Good luck.
October 6th, 2008 at 23:11
@Red Diablo: I am only trying to lull them all in to a sense of safety and security. Then I will unleash Hell with a blatant attack that infuriates and aggravates them all in to a mad rage. I detect a sense of betrayal or faith young apprentice. If so, I have trained you well. As a young apprentice taught in the mysteries of doom and gloom (the dark arts) I would never expect you to stay loyal and if you were not always thinking of betraying me and usurping my throne, I would think you were an unfit and useless apprentice. So you are doing well. Just remember, I am still more evil than you BBOOOOOWWHAAHAHAHAH!
October 6th, 2008 at 23:14
@Rd: He is just lulling all of you in to a false security. Never underestimate the power of the dark side.
October 6th, 2008 at 23:16
@Craig Mc: Ah mate BOOOO!
October 6th, 2008 at 23:27
@Grognard: Yeah. Well I pretty much have nothing to talk about these days except football for 2 hours a day and Studies for the remaining 22 hours. 3 GCSE’s in till 31st. Praying to God and studying like HELL For an A!
And then on the 1st Nov it will be me Fifa 09 and a big bag of chips and a 3 Ltr bottle of Coke!
October 7th, 2008 at 0:20
@Grognard: cheers mate, that seems to be the general consensus anyway… I myself have always been a Pro evo fan, but after last year’s attrocity and Fifa08’s fun factor, u could say I now swing both ways
Are you still hoping for an improved effort from Konami, cuz after watching demos and supposed ‘actual’ gameplay of both games, FIFA seems to be the better one this year, again 
October 7th, 2008 at 0:48
I have played both in HD and feel the PS3 version looks a bit better, and the button system makes a lot more sense for fluidity ingame. No difference in loading times or any of that jazz.
October 7th, 2008 at 0:51
Also, the be a pro season is amazing. Played a few games for United’s reserves with my created player.. me.. got made captain of the reserves, then called up to the first team, and then a reserves international and then finally a full international friendly… scored a hat trick at anfield too… bloody brilliant!! I’ve barely played real matches!
October 7th, 2008 at 1:19
@Traverse: really? haven’t got a next-gen console yet, cuz all I played was pro evo and last year’s was soo bad, i didn’t bother getting a next-gen console to play it. This year tho, i’d like to get one and also get both PES2009 and FIFA 09. Which console d’u reckon will play both games to their maximum, PS3 or 360?
October 7th, 2008 at 1:29
@Red Diablo: Stay away from the bag of chips mate and buy diet coke. That’s the kind of shit that killed my friend. Man he was a junk food addict.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:37
@Gabriel: I suppose it depends on what your specific needs are. The 360 has better games and the cheapest one is half the price of the cheapest PS3. The PS3 is more reliable, the online is free(€60/£40 per year on 360) and has built in wireless and an Internet browser. My 360 has lasted for about a year and 3/4 and by the sound of it it won’t last much longer. The 360 is very loud compared to the PS3 because the PS3 installs games onto a hard drive at the start.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:42
@Gabriel: I’ve been waiting, hoping and praying for an improved Konami product but their lead program a Japanese fellow nicknamed Seabass needs to get the boot and somebody who actually gets it must be hired. That whole development team has become lazy and it shows in their graphics and poor design. The game was a favorite of min back 2005-06 because it offered something that FIFA never did. A comprehensive and in depth editing tool. Since 2006 they have watered down the editing tool and basically made it a total joke. I loved the game because it allowed me to take my knowledge and vast data base of knowledge and design teams and league from past years in Germany, England and the World Cup and Euros. If you knew anything about the Bundesliga in 1977 to 1981 you would have been amazed with what I had created and how accurate the players were on and off the field. A collection of Kicker Yearbooks with team pictures and some really great resources online helped tremendously. My recreation of the 1974 World Cup is still epic for me. Why cannot I edit to my heart’s content in the new versions? Instead they limit editing and have licensed certain teams so that they are not editable either. Their graphics and licensing sucks so forget about it. I wish the game was open ended and designed for hard core gamers who like to create and design their own players and teams. Now that would be a game to die for and a game with no restrictions. FIFA has a great factor but they have no sense of history and they have a poor editing feature that allows you to only be able to make limited changes to player’s skills. Creating new players is also limiting so the idea of creating the 1974 Dutch side is out of the question. The more I think about it the more both games piss me off. At least the game dynamics in FIFA have improved greatly and look and react more like real football in the last two years. Konami’s looks like and feels like an arcade game. The game controls were better on the old XBox. Pretty pathetic. And regardless of the editing, every player looks 6′5″ tall. Bring on FIFA 09. PES will have to get very high and very solid reviews and ratings before I even consider it. That never used to be the case. Being burned the last two years has made me smarter.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:53
I’m watching espn classic and our game against Blackburn in 05/06 is on. It was the one we lost 4-3 but the interesting thing is that after we went 4-1 down, Fergie made changes which made our team look like this:
VDS
Neville Brown Vida Evra
Park Rio Rooney Ronaldo
RVN Saha
Anyway after making those changes we beat the crap out of them in the last 35/40 mins and nearly came back to draw. Just looking at it now, if you switch in Berba and Tevez up front, move Rio to CB and put in Scholes/ Anderson/Fletcher/Carrick to play beside Rooney (who looked very Scholes like in that game) and maybe Nani in for Park then that could be a good formation. Anyway I’m just thinking aloud here as I’m very
bored…
October 7th, 2008 at 4:10
@Liam: That’s a bunch of if’s don’t you think?
October 7th, 2008 at 5:57
@Grognard: I completely agree with your point about editing. Customization is what gives game true re-play value. I simply dont understand why developers dont realize this. EA frustrates me more than any other software developer cause they have the ability to make the highest quality games around, but at time I feel they intentonally hold stuff back because they are lazy.
Last year they had Be-A-Pro mode wich I absolutely loved, but it was ony for one off games. They have the same exact mode in Madden football but it is over a career. Now tell me why they couldnt do that with FIFA? Also this year they had it but limit it to 4 years. WHy would they do that? I think its because they want to make sure they have features to add to next years game.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:02
@Gabriel: I have both a 360 and a ps3(unfortunately both are broken at the moment) but I always buy the 360 version of a game. SImply because Sony has nothing that stacks up to Xbox Live. I also am a sucker for achievmentt, at first I thought they were the dumbest idea ever but before I knew it I was jumping thru hoops trying to get 10 extra points. Its sad but im a achievment whore.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:51
@Grognard: groggy, i see you really love the count.
all hail berbs. 
all hail the heir to eric’s throne. 
October 7th, 2008 at 7:54
@johnsom33: You’ll be happy to know that this year you can play up to 4 seasons with a player in a Be a Pro mode. I too loved that feature and I think why they did so lame last year was just to test it out and see if it would be popular before they spent money and time developing the concept over four years. The reward for the player besides his team accomplishments will be to elevate himself and get international status. I know a few of the guys developing the game here at EA Canada and they are hard working blokes. What they don’t have is a producer for the game who has a wide enough vision for what the franchise is capable of offering. They are financially tied to the licenses they pay big money to FIFA and the individual leagues that they don’t seem to want gamers experimenting and creating their own players and teams. Madden, NBA 2k9 and a lot of other games offer this and they don’t seem to mind. FIFA might be lazy but i think they just don’t care. I’ve suggested it to my friends and they have brought it up to their superiors but nothing has come of it. By the way, I really let them have it over the Be a Pro mode only being one game. And 6 months ago they did tell me they were going to expand that.
And as for achievements, I just hate that aspect of gaming. I hate being manipulated and led around like some 6 year old being told he has to solve this puzzle or that puzzle in order to get points. I’m an older gamer and I am dishing out my hard earned money. I bloody well want everything unlocked in the game like all the extras at the Fan Shop. I don’t want to go through hoops in order to finally get the privilege of buying United’s 3rd kit. For me it’s just not right because we are paying for it. Points should be granted for legitimate landmarks like winning a season or scoring a ton of goals. And then one should be able to contact EA and actually get a legitimate prize like a t-shirt or voucher for a future game. Thats how you motivate players and treat them like mature shoppers.
Also, I have asked them to consider putting out a FIFA World Cup Classic edition. This would include all the team from all the World Cups ever played with all the stadiums and kits and bad haircuts of the day. I doubt they will ever do it but man that would be great. Man to play the 1970 and 1974 World Cups would be a dream on FIFA. I’d also like West Germany to get bloody revenge against Italy for the 1982 final which Italy won by having a Spanish ref wear Azurri blue all evening. I’m still bitter about that one. Playing the 66 tournament would also be a lot of fun. Add all the atmosphere and look by creating lens textures that kind of take you back in time. I’m surprised FIFA has not suggested this game to EA themselves. Man it would be awesome and major seller amongst hard core gamers and fans of the game’s history. Imagine playing Charlton, Eusebio, Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Mueller, Cruyff, Kempes, Rivelino, Rummenigge, Socrates, Rossi, Gazza and Lineker etc etc. My God I would never shut my box down. Add to it a proper editing tool so that we have the freedom to make valid changes and this would be the sports game of the century.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:59
@count berbatov: I’ll second that motion and I’ll also be the next person to compliment you on your nickname. Count Berbatov!!!! That’s just classy mate. Love it.
If I had one wish in football it would be for Berbabtov to be German. Germany is my team and I would be in 7th heaven knowing he played for United and for the German national team. No disrespect to Bulgaria but a player like that would bring the World Cup back to Germany. He is the second coming of Eric the King. Just wait until the second half of this season when he is finally in tune with all the lads and he is firing on all cylinders. Man I can’t wait. As long as he, Ronaldo and Rio stay healthy, the EPL is ours again. And the CL is once again within our grasp.
October 7th, 2008 at 8:00
@Grognard: Alright! Coco Milk with salad it is then!
October 7th, 2008 at 8:01
@Grognard: My friend never forget the Roon!
October 7th, 2008 at 9:57
@Grognard: I my view you are wrong mate, firstly saying its is ridiculas that players are not paid for their “sacrifice”, what sacrifice is it it represent your country, the hopes of millions on your shoulders?, that is ludicrous surely? plus they do get appearance money, and all the players are well insured if they do get injured.
Fans do not dislike international tournaments that is a falasy, fans dislike meaningless revenue raising friendlies, all football fans love major tournaments, to say players are burnt out after these competions is surely bowing down to the precious footballer, the Euro final was on the 29th of June and the first league game was 17th of August so well over a month and a half to re charge thier batteries in the sun drenched holiday destination of their choice.
To say national pride is misguided, that is your opinion and not shared by the majority, and certainly not by me. I am proud to be English, and the Spanish seemed very proud of their National side winning the Euro’s and well done to them and I hope we can win a major tournement soon.
I can understand your frustrations, just when United get into the swing of thing an International break, but that is football and it is the same for every nation, and club we just have to live with it.
I am giving what I believe a grounded view, international football unites countries, a lot of the English people will remember Euro 96, I just about remember Italy 1990, they were great times for our national side and all the country got behind the team regardless of their team.
I am a massive United fan, season ticket holder for over ten years, and 99/08 were superb years for me, but I do love England.
October 7th, 2008 at 10:58
Hows about a program that links Football Manager with Fifa, backroom, transfers, training etc on FM and the match engine in Fifa, allowing you to use your skills. That would be amazing.
October 7th, 2008 at 11:18
Ah, references to my favourite Red - RVN. Good to see people still don’t appreciate his talents, despite the fact that when he retires he’ll probably have one of the top 5 goalscoring records in European history. Anyway, a bit like flogging the proverbial dead-horse (buh-dun) but he is and will always remain a class act who loved United. Most dissapointing day of my fanhood when he was sold (for £12m!!!!). He’ll be up there on the Golden Boot charts for another 2 years. Sigh.
Anyway, good to see Berba starting to come good, he is lovely to watch on the ball. I’m surprised how much he drops deep, we really do play a 4-2-4 with the front men just alternating. I’ve not seen him play as a true target man at all, other than on goalkicks. If anything we seem to play with the wingers being the most forward, and the two ’strikers’ pulling back to the 18 yard box. Seemed to work against blackburn though, but for some woeful finishing we’d have scored 5
October 7th, 2008 at 16:26
@Red Diablo: Make it straight milk and go buy some sugar free chocolate bars. That’s the ticket,
October 7th, 2008 at 16:46
@Stephen: Look mate I understand what international prestige and these tournaments mean. I enjoy them myself even though in football my allegiance and passion is for Germany and not Canada or Greece who hold my heritage and my passport rights. When Greece won in 2004 I was elated. When Germany won the WC in 1974 and 1990 I was over the moon. When Canada wins international hockey tournaments I am also over the moon. But I never lose my perspective on what those tournaments really mean. They are usually something that comes around once every four years, so yes they have meaning because they are rare. However, I don not obsess over them as a fan like I do over my two club sides Manchester United and Bayern Munich. What those clubs do or don’t do interests me and grabs my attention far more. and that will always be the case.
I don’t hate the tournaments and I as much as anybody else looks forward to them every two years. I just want the qualifying format changed so that it stops messing with and ruing the flow and momentum of domestic leagues. I won’t repeat myself on how that should be done. All I’m saying is that my solution sounds very reasonable and logical and it allows for the league to go on with only a small Christmas interruption and as it will end sooner than before, it gives international teams plenty of time to play numerous qualifiers at the end of a domestic season. Why not play the qualifiers after a season like the tournaments are played after a season?
I’m not going to debate over whether ones national team is more important than ones favorite domestic team. That’s all up to the individual and nobody is wrong here. But to allow international qualifiers and useless friendlies to delay a season and ruin the momentum and flow of all teams and leagues in all the domestic campaigns is ludicrous and it’s laughable.
Remember, I am looking at a lot of this from a North American perspective. The professional game is the one most important here and although we all care about our national sides, we still understand the necessity not to mess with things. The NHL has mad the slight concession every four years of shutting down the NHL for two weeks in order to allow the players from all the participating countries to go and play hockey in the Winter Olympics. But here’s the thing, qualifying for that tournament isn’t an issue for major clubs. And games like that don’t get in the way of a league’s schedule. Really and honestly, there are 12 to 15 nations in world football that shouldn’t even have to bother with he qualifying. Based on their past record and historical success, they should just be give the bye and therefore, they should only have to worry about playing the odd friendly. Radical thought perhaps, but domestic football should never be interrupted for this stuff. For me, it’s wrong. There will be no convincing me of international tournaments having more importance for me. They have a time and a place, but not during my team’s domestic campaigns thank you very much
October 7th, 2008 at 16:47
@Red Diablo: Roon who? Just joking
Yes, never forget the Roon, good point.
October 7th, 2008 at 17:05
@Grognard: I understand your frustrations certainly, but to say play qualifyers @ the end of the season does counter act your previous comment of fatigue with players, also other nations leagues do not run to the sheduale of our own domestic leage.
Also if there are only 12/15 nations who should not bother enter the competion and mate you are so right, Northern Ireland being one of them and they beat England a while back, and you would have not given CFR Cluj a chance against Roma and Chelsea and see what happened. You could also argue why only play the prem with United, Arsenal and Chelsea you could add Liverpool just and I say through gritted teeth to that aquasion.
Football at any level should not be eleatist as fans of smaller countries love playing the Germany’s, England’s and Spain’s of this world it also raises their countries profile and boosts their economy.
I do understand your point certainly and we will have to agree to disagree I suppose, but give me a break about North American sports you guys call Baseball the World series and its only North Americans who play in it!!
October 7th, 2008 at 17:57
@Grognard: Thats the thing.M not happy to know its a 4 year career. not only should it be 10-15 years, but that feature should have been in LAST YEARS game. I could be wrong but I just dont see how it would cost more for them to implement it. Like I said, they already had it developed in John Madden Football(its called Superstar mode). so unless The FIFA developers are barred from the Madden developers I dont see why they couldnt do it.
I have been a huge fan of EA games since the early 90’s, but I have noticed that in the last 5-8 years they have seriously took their foot off the pedal and have done the bare minimum to keep your business. Fifa has been a different story because they have been playing catch up to Konami for so long. Do you remember the first 2 FIFA games for the 360, “Road to the world cup” and then the world cup game? They were shocking, the fact they had the ball to even release a qualifyng game is downright diabolical. Then they revamped the engine for FIFA 07, atleast that was their reasoning for only having 4 leagues. Maybe its true, I have no reason to know for sure but the fact remains that fifa 07 for the orginal xbox was far superior to the 360 version.
EA got away with this because at the time they had no competion for 360 consumers so they rolled out half assed products because footie starved fans like me were desperate. This hurts me so bad because like I said before I have seen what EA is capable of when they go all guns blazing. I am just sick and tired of them leaving out features just so they can add them next year if they cant think of anything else to add.
October 7th, 2008 at 18:35
@Stephen: The reason you play qualifiers at the end of the season is because due to no interruptions, the seasons end sooner thus giving international teams a bigger window to play those games and still give the player 2 months off. It’s a win win scenario.
If great players demand and want to play for their nation then they will just have to play a longer campaign. But they do that anyway every 2 years when they rush off to train with their sides for the Euros and the World Cup. My solution is to shorten the length of a domestic season by eliminating international breaks and then throw those days at the end. It makes so much sense I am shocked that it has never been considered before.
As for clubs who should automatically be entered, it’s based on history, winning percentage and pedigree. Why should Germany interrupt their domestic campaign so that it’s national side play countries like Malta, Andorra or San Marino? It’s stupid and completely unnecessary. Minnows should have to go through a special qualifying tier just in order to qualify for the qualifiers for crying out loud. Germany, Holland, England, Spain, Italy, France, Brazil, Argentina, are eight nations who definitely have earned a free ride to the tourneys every time it’s played. One could also argue for countries like Russia, Croatia, Czech Rep, Sweden, Uruguay, Mexico, Portugal and Poland. Countries who have a history of success at big tournaments. Sorry to the Pacific Rim, Africa and others but the countries I have mentioned have succeeded at these tournaments by qualifying for them many times over, by winning tourney’s in many cases or by finishing in the top 8 on a consistent basis. OK, so you still want them to have to qualify? Let them get a bye the first year of qualifying and let the other teams in their region go through a first round of qualifying groups just to see which teams face the big 8. In Europe the top 8 get a first group pass. When their qualifying begins, there are only 3 team in each group and therefore they will have to play no more than 6 games to qualify. We’ll use 2012 EUROS as an example. Qualifiers can be played for this tournament involving the big 8 or 16 at the end of the 2010/11 season 6 games over 3 to 4 weeks in May and early June. Then the players will have all of June, July and some of August to rest while the rest of the footballing world has most of May, June, July and some of August.
Come on mate it works and it allows all parties to be happy and content without interrupting domestic leagues that matter. Nothing should interrupt or delay the play in leagues like England, Scotland, Holland, Germany, Spain, Portugal, France and Italy. In South America the Brazilian and Argentine leagues should not be screwed over. The only delay for all is 3 weeks at Christmas.
October 7th, 2008 at 18:50
@Stephen: It’s the World Series because it’s been called that since the 19th century when nobody else played it. And still today, America is the king of baseball and will always be because of it’s infrastructure and heritage. Some countries like Japan, the Dominican Republic and Cuba are decent but they can’t hold a candle to the US. Hell, most of those countries best players play in the US for money. I’m still Canadian and hockey is our game here. Canada loves big international tournaments but hates exhibition games or friendlies. They just don’t tolerate distractions to the NHL. The Olympics or an epic Russia vs Canada series is the exception. Or at least Russia vs Canada was the exception during the Cold War because both countries hated each other in hockey. Their was blood spilled. No football tournament will ever or everh has had the meotion and the political tension and stress that the 1972 Canada vs Soviet Union Summit Series had. 8 games, 4 in Canada and 4 in Russia. Canada won the series 4 wins, 3 losses and 1 tie in dramatic style with 30 seconds to go in Moscow’s Luzniki Arena against corrupt refs and Soviet officials who stacked the deck against Canada by forcing them to play under incredibly unfair conditions and with corrupt referees to boot. To this day, that series had more to do for bringing all Canadians together and establishing Canadian pride than two world wars and confederation ever did. Every Canadian who lived through those 4 weeks remembers it with fondness and great pride and those players especially Paul Henderson and Phil Esposito are looked at as icons and gods by Canadians for winning the series, saving our pride and defeating the communists. Man, nothing even comes close to it on a national scale. It was total war and Canada was surrounded but still fought and won. Man it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Only the epic 3 game series in the 1987 Canada Cup even comes close to that moment. Nothing has ever since. Internationals only mean something when their are rivalries build on the pitch or through politics or wars. Germany vs Andorra is just a colossal waste of time and money, don’t you think. Now England vs Germany or Germany vs Russia, now those are rivalries were watching.
October 7th, 2008 at 18:55
@johnsom33: EA Cnada are in Burnaby and EA US is in California but they get a company called Tiberion to make the Madden game in Florida. Totally different teams at work here. It would cost more because people have to be hired or put on the team to develop the Be A Pro feature an this requires design and programming which will offer more options and length to that component. Trust me, I used to be an IT Recruiter and so I know how much that extra little effort would have cost in manpower and time allocated. They saw best to test the waters last year and if gamers enjoyed it then they would feel more safe about putting the the money and manpower resources forward for the following year. There is very little risk taking in the gaming industry. My best friend worked fro a gaming company called radical Entertainment for three years and he still has nightmares about that time in his life. It’s hard work and long hours and they still never get everything done because of deadlines.
October 7th, 2008 at 19:01
I’ve been playing FIFA 09 for the past three days and it is awesome. But the fouls in this one are awful but really go unpunished. I’ve lost Nani, Carrick, Scholes and Ronaldo to injuries. But I’ve bought Messi so no problem.
October 7th, 2008 at 19:07
@johnsom33: Although I do agree that at times EA has sat back and been lazy I’d have to say that is no longer the problem. I think their games in all markets have dramatically improved over the past two years. Nobody is going to convince me that FIFA 07 and 08 were