Jul 09
Thursday links and some pre-almost-weekend mumbling
This will be very short because I am not currently disposed to do a long one right now. So I’ll share some links with you, mumble a few words under my breath and leave the stage to you.
The well respected Andy Brassell, the European expert on BBC’s excellent World Football Phone-in, gives a favourable review of Gabriel Obertan on the official site. He was also on World Soccer Daily yesterday as guest and considered him to be physically suited to the demands of the Premiership. Considering Brassell spent a good part of his life following Ligue 1, I would feel a little encouraged by his assessment.
The man of the moment, Obertan, meanwhile completed possibly the slowest medical and signature in transfer history, as his reported medical took about two days. Allegedly, of course.
Since the fee seems to be in the region of £3m, I think it’s not a bad bit of business.
The Huntelaar stories seem to have gone a bit cold at the moment, although Arnold Muhren gives a ringing endorsement of his compatriot.
The Mirror reports we’re sending Richard Eckersley out on loan to QPR for the rest of the season.
And shockingly, we’re linked today with a move for Zlatan Ibrahimovic. I am wondering how to say the world’s biggest “No!” to that flat track bully.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Short Thursday Roundup
- New Links Feature
- Some Links for the Day
- United related links
- United gravy train chugs back after Asian jaunt
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (485)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (347)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Grognard: Would you care for some Philosophy101?
I agree with your views on football and especially our team a lot, just one little ‘philosophical’ disagreement I feel I should raise because you seem to mention it a lot:
You say “Some of you refuse to see reality …”
What is reality?
It is not so much a reality, rather an opinion. Reality is in fact something that is variable. It differs from observer to observer. It is nothing more than the observers ‘interpretation’ of his or her perception. Your interpretation depends largely on your conditioning due to past experiences, and your perception again – contrary to the saying “I know what I saw” – depends on many things eg. your interest, point of focus, blindspots, conditioning, belief systems, preconceived ideas, etc. etc.
I don’t believe in the argument “I’m being realistic” or “that’s reality”. It is nothing more than an opinion. THAT is reality. Then again, this is just my version of reality, in other words, my opinion
Welcome to the Matrix. (There is no ‘red pill’ or ‘blue pill’, just drugs).
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cheers craig for the reply, i didnt realise robben was so injury prone, i would still be prefer aguero anyway, but if we did get him is he going to play in centre where rooney should play and rooney out wide? this option shouldnt even be considerd but has fergie learned his lesson yet over rooney and the wing??
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@Karl: Well, accordind to my reality, your reality is just plain, unreal, really!!
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@Redrich: 2007/2007 Prem stats time!
Ronaldo – 17 Goals
Rooney – 14 Goals
Saha – 8 Goals
Solskjaer – 7 Goals
Scholes – 6 Goals
Park – 5 Goals
We won the league.
So, could Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Nani, Valencia and Carrick get 57 goals between them? Probably. I’m not that worried. Rafa has gone fullback mental and their best 2 players are injury prone. Arsenal will lose home and away to Hull and Stoke. Chelsea will fire Ancelotti by Christmas. City will win every home game, and lose every away game, and still finish 6th.
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@Craig Mc: I’m glad to hear that.
To be honest, I feel somewhat stupid for my 360. I don’t know if it is a case of me seeking a hero, or me liking to bet the underdog or being different, or me craving another Cantona, or me being right. All I know is, I get this feeling that the Berbatov of this season will be totally different to the Berbatov of last season.
To be honest, he should. He cost us a lot of money…30m+Wellbeck+Tevez. Pretty expensive if you ask me. For this reason, I seriously doubt that our stubbourn Fergie will let him go anytime soon.
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@Craig Mc: Love that story, craig. Then we can shoot our wad on Aguero, and perhaps a goalie, and end this argument once and for all.
If we get Eto’o and Aguero, I will love Berbatov much, much better!!
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@Traverse: The answer to that, is doubtful. Just based on history alone.
I’m really not sure why you don’t want to get better players for our squad. Your reasoning seems to be based on a “hunch” that we will pull together as a team, and then against all odds, have success this season??
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And your hunch is based on doom gloom and our team for the last three years being based on two players. One of whom scored the same amount of goals in the premiership as Park did in 2007. Could we do with another striker? Maybe. Hunter would be good, but we’ll end up with the Tevez saga all over again.
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@Traverse: I agree with u, i think there is a good chance that we go with who we have and the goals may be shared around the team aka 2006/07 season. Its a big risk doing this but people were saying the same thing back then, infact worse. We were all thinking we were getting the next essien aka mahamdou diarra who we missed out on, senna who was a unknown yet good decent player, ribery who a few people reckoned was coming and finally none other than fernando torres.
I remember being a regular on a torres to united thread on bbc 606, it lasted for about 3 months and got thousand of posts, the word was torres was a done deal, the ballague bloke said he was looking for a house in manchester and everyones hopes seemed to be up.
Start to the first game of the season and the expectation was major low. I remember looking at the squad and predicting a 4th/5th place finish, you just couldnt see where the goals were gonna come from.
And yet we played some of the best football i have seen in years, we spread the goals and as a team we did very well. Ronaldo got 23 that year as did roonet, saha got a good load, ole got bout 10 but it was a good season cos the goals were spread through out the entire team.
Now im not saying this year will be the same, i look at the team and i definitely think we need another player capable of getting 15 goals a season, sneijder is my pick. However i honestly think thats it for this season and whilst i may not like it i do think we will still score a good deal of goals this season.
Lets say 20 odd for rooney, maybe between 15 and 20 for berba and say 10 for rooney and your saying for a good season you maybe need another 30 to 40 goals. I am positive nani would get up to 10 and create plenty of assists its just where the rest come from. You will get a few from the likes of carrick, giggs, valencia and the like and nothing much more but i do think a few players could surprise us. So yes whilst i would like a sneijder or an eto’o to get us another 15 goals a season i dont think we will see it and we will have to do like 06/07 which may surprise a few people i dont know.
Just another thought on the subject as i said b4 i reckoned this is it for the transfers this season, i honestly think fergie will save it for next season for a few reasons.
First off the prices will be down again next season, clubs will reckon the ronaldo cash is gone into the debt so whilst we will get our usual united tax we shouldnt be over over taxed if u get me.
Also looking at our squad i would say next season could see alot of players going out next season. Edwin, scholes, neville should be gone by then and i would also place anderson, nani, berbatov and hargo on a list where it could see them given their final season before they are shipped out, ando less so though.
Thats about 7 players which could leave and they would all need replacing, so whilst im not saying fergie is doing all this with next season in mind, it does make sense if you think about it.
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@Traverse: No, mate, I’m never doom and gloom when it comes to United. However when stark facts stare me in the face, I will say my piece. That’s why I go to this blog.
Advocating a meek “stand as you are” attitude will never produce success at this level, Domestically or in Europe. As you stand still, the rest of our opposition are moving ahead and plotting our demise. You just can’t give them the advantage at all!!
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@Redrich:
, the papers are full of Eto to United, and also Fat Rafa has said that he has fought off 60 million bids for Torres from Chelski, Man Utd and Man City. Can anybody believe that? Batter bit of news and more likely maybe, is that SAF has made Ashley Young a major target, because he wants to ensure a powerful left side of the field 
. Martin O’Neill is not happy but they are in the process of bidding for a left winger/s so it looks like it could be on? I think SAF is just spoilt for choice, and he should just make up his bloody mind who he wants and GO FOR IT once and for all. Also there is talk about Tevez again, but I have no idea whether there is any truth in that, especially after all the spouting and reviling of Fergie that Tevez has done! If he wants to return I will be flabbergasted, but he has never stopped whining and crying about the club since he supposedly left, so m’thinks he protests too much and really knows he made the wrong decisions. He is too proud a little bastard to admit that though!
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@Craig Mc: If anything, I think SAF is trying really, really hard not to get overcharged. And after all it’s a rare sight seeing a Scotsman spend money!
However the hesitancy of some of these stars to come to Manchester, has to do with something more than the rainy weather! We have a fairly rigid pay structure and until we grease those wheels, we’ll forever be investing in the “youth movement”.
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@Karl: Argh. You relativists sometimes drive me bonkers. Seriously, perception plays a definite part into a person’s view of ‘reality’ but
the truth(oops! nope, can’t use that word) it just so happens that the events that we all base our perceptions upon are the same. So while you say that it is impossible to see ‘reality’ as one entity (rather that personal point of view), I maintain that it is perfectly possible to see it as long as one can view the events objectively.That said, there are two flaws in the above argument:
1. I am using relativism to make my point for absolutism.
2. Humans (and especially football fans) cannot even begin to think about trying to start being objective.
–
I kinda miss Philosophy class
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Craig:
“Methinks the lady doth protest too much”
Care to remind me where that quote is for? I have a feeling it is from the ‘Taming of the Shrew’ but cannot be entirely sure.
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@Craig Mc: Do you have any quotes on those rumours? Dying to read some…
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@Andrei: I just love your 2nd point. It infers that there is an alternative to humans!!
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another man utd target..
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/07/11/1376953/manchester-united-target-nicolai-boilesen-coy-on-future
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I love how some of you try to paint Ronaldo’s greedy goal instincts as a negative and something that was a detriment to the team. That is a load of rubbish, his role is to score goals. Greed is a trait that I want in all my strikers, Because goals are the name of the game. Tevez had greed in abundance, but his technical skill is what failed him the most. As fergie said he is a “tryer” you can fault him for a lot of things but you cant fault him for his mentality or work ethic. Its funny because Berbatov is the exact opposite of Tevez. He is a player who just oozes skill, and his first touch is damn near angelic. But he couldnt be arsed to use it. Last year he had far too many games where he took zero to 1 shots the entire game. and for a striker that is inexcusable.
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@Craig Mc: Eto’o would be a case of really bad business for United as well as another example of hypocrisy. Why spend 18 million on a player and then break your salary structure and then have him vacate us for six weeks to go waste his time in the Africa Cup of Uselessness? (If that offends Africans out there, tough. They should schedule their cup at a time that doesn’t interfere with the dozen of domestic league’s at play from the number one footballing continent on the planet.)
It is also major hypocrisy on Fergie and United’s part because a month ago they let everyone know that they had this new policy that no money for transfers would be issued for players over 26 and already they have signed Michael Owen (albeit he was a free transfer) and now they are looking at snatching up the 28 year old Eto’o. I fail to see how Eto’o at 18 million and with a massive weekly salary and six weeks off ids better business at 28 years old than Klaas Jan Huntelaar is at 25 and without all the demands and baggage. Eto’o has never been United’s first choice. Greed has kept him from being picked up by numerous teams. All he is concerned with is getting Champions League play and he doesn’t really care about the team provided they pay him.
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@Karl: I believe in Berba but I don’t think United, the players, the fans or even Fergie believe in him much anymore. I also think Berba doesn’t believe in Berba the way he was hanging his head in shame near the end of last season. And personally, anybody that says he wants nothing to do with taking penalties in the shootout because of his previous failure lacks the courage and confidence I want from a United player. Personally, I think he’s bottled it and it’s time to ship him. A shame because he is a classy player but quite frankly, he was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole with our club. There can be no denying that. Perhaps another year without Ronaldo may unlock something great in him but I think there is too much at stake to be taking that kind of risk when I feel Aguero could be a dynamic replacement for both him and Ronaldo.
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@Karl: It’s more of a figure of speech mate. It’s like when I say get real. In other words it’s a friendlier way of telling people to wake the frak up.
When somebody offers up something that I think is incredibly naive or unbelievable or even impossible in theory I will say something like get real or you need to get back to reality. The thought that Berbatov, Owen and Rooney can combine for 60 goals is just such a scenario. That’s SCI-FI at it’s best because it’s not ever going to happen, so in that moment i will offer up a reality lesson. I think it’s so much more friendly than telling the person he is fucking off his rocker and he needs to get himself checked out by neurologist, don’t you? 
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@jamie lee: Yes Robben is a hospital stay waiting to happen. He’s quite brittle. As for Aguero, he is capable of playing across the forward line as a striker, a second striker (his best position), and both left and right wing. If he was to show up I think you would see Rooney move to the middle unless he was bought and we kept Berbatov or bought Eto’o or Huntelaar. Then I could se us play 4-3-3 with Rooney on the left, Eto’o, Huntelaar or Berba in the middle and Aguero on the right. And I could also see Rooney and Aguero changing sides during the game a lot the way Ronaldo and Giggs used to. The good news is this 4-3-3 wouldn’t be so wide that it would hurt Rooney’s goal scoring ambitions. It would actually be quite dynamic if it ever happened.
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@johnsom33: I agree with most of that mate.
Berbatov: Well it wasn’t that he was bad, he just didn’t make the effort to fit in. It was almost like he expected the entire team to adopt to his pace!!
If there was a final straw placed on Ronaldo’s back, then Berbatov’s performance last year could have been it. The effort and graft put in by all and sundry, was not matched by Berbatov, and animosity bloomed as a result.
If there was ever a reason to ditch this guy after just one season, then having the rest of the changing room looking at him sideways, would be it.
I never expected SAF to cut and run with him, but if he did, it would make perfect sense to me!!
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@Traverse: We only scored 68 goals last season with Ronaldo and Tevez in tow. How on Earth are you expecting those players to tally 57 goals by themselves and then expect the rest of the team to score more than11 goals to exceed last year’s total? Do you not think that your estimates are a bid to unrealistic to achieve? I think you’re dreaming mate. We scored 68 goals and lost 23 and you think by adding Owen and Valencia that we will exceed 68. I want whatever you are smoking.
KARL, if you are reading this, a classic example what I mean by the term “getting with reality”. 
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@Redrich: If we get Aguero and Eto’o or Huntelaar I will love Fergie much much more.
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@Redrich: More like a major bet down at a Vegas roulette table with all the money down on the number 13.
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@Redrich: Well said. Nothing I hate more than the stand pat types who just lose the greatest player in the world and are delusional enough to think they are better off without him and will do better. Ridiculous optimism driven by blind faith and a lack of true understanding and………..REALITY.
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@Grognard: After all, it all about the Love!
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@Grognard: If he’s the betting type, I’m offering the odds!
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@Andrei: Shakespeare really needed to work on his lisp. It affected his writing. It DOTH not mean anything to me.
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@johnsom33: Bravo mate. He was the only player we had that really knew how to bulge the old onion bag consistently and with purpose and there are those who liked to call him greedy or selfish, which he was and I for one loved him for it. No I’d rather have him refuse to take a shot and pass it to that two left footed muppet Tevez to make a meal of the chance. Ronaldo ruled and we will grow to miss him more an more it seems as the days go by and Fergie does fuck all to find his replacement(s).
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80,000 people showed up to greet Ronaldo at the Berbabeau. 3 people and their dachshund named Colin came from their Rotten Borough to welcome Owen. Borrowing a little Black Adder humor for the occasion. But I think that says it all about the difference in player class and just how far we have fallen.
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@Redrich: To quote four special scousers, “All we need is love”. And Fergie will not get an ounce of it until he does the right thing and signs up Aguero or Huntelaar or both.
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@Redrich: Nice.
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@Grognard: “Ronaldo, Ronaldo, where for art thou, Ronaldo?? ”
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@Grognard: Agreed, but when he does I want to hear it mate!!
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@Grognard: I don’t think it says anything Grog, except United don’t run their football club like a Real Madrid circus.
You can bet that if United opened up OT at the weekend to present anybody to the United fans, the parents would turn up bringing the kids in their thousands from every area of Manchester, especially if it was free entrance, as it is in Madrid. You do United fans a dis-service with your comments Grog.
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@Andrei: If you are talking about Tevez, it was announced and discussed ALL MORNING yesterday on Talk Sport which is usually one of our most reliable sources at breaking football stories.
Also a Mark Hughes quote, that City fans need to understand that the Tevez or Eto’o plans are far from sealed yet – should tell you something. I believe the way Tevez has NEVER stopped talking about United since he left, is very telling, but you don’t have to agree Andrei. You and I seldom agree on much anyway, same with you and Grog it appears
. That’s fandom!
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@Redrich: A Ronaldo, a Ronaldo…..my kingdom for a Ronaldo.
Now is the “summer” of our discontent
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@Craig Mc: WTF? I do fans a disservice? I don’t think so mate. My comment was pointed directly towards Man Utd the club and their lack of ambition. My point was while Madrid signs a true major superstar that they can parade out to 80,000 fans, all we have to show is Michael Owen who will attract no more than three fans and a dog. That’s an insult to United for thinking so small, not a dig at United fans. Christ if we were to sign Messi tomorrow,At least 50,000 fans would show up but the doors would be closed because like you said, United don’t do circuses. But then again why should they. It’s not like they ever sign anyone noteworthy or major.
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@Craig Mc: Hey, we often agree to disagree. That’s agreeing on something.
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http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/113429/Fergie-trails-Samba-star
We might as well as we have the money.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/88696/Fergie-25m-Ash-dash/
Cocks out?
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New post up, by the way
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@Grognard: I look forward to the day you come out of this negative mood of yours Grog
. My point was, that if United had made it known that they wanted to publically introduce our New signings to the public in the OT stadium, that the fans with their kids were turn up in droves. We would all enjoy the day out and the carnival atmosphere. That will never happen though, as United are not Real M and we have never done things that way. No matter what you might think Grog, on your personal feelings towards Michael Owen, if United invited us all down to welcome him, Valencia and Obafanny to the club, we would get into the spirit of things, regardless of our personal feelings. I think I know Manchester folk a little bit better than you Grog, whether Red or Blue of the City, we are diehards! 
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re: grogard! the fact aguero is so versatlie is brilliant, as he then can be our new ronaldo and even better because of his personality, but as u pointed out the 433 with rooney cutting in from the left can be dynamic, i have to disagree! in thoery its great, but in substance its not! rooney is half the player he is when out wide, whether is narrow or not, he cannot control the game from a wide area, and i think fergie is trying to do a stevie g on him! i think rooney is future caption and must built around, not accomadated, he is lethal in the hole and can even play up top on his own, 442 with good wingers like 99 for me man
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@Grognard:
, I was talking about you not agreeing with Andrei too much, not you not agreeing with me 
.
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@jamie lee: To make it easier for you mate, when you want to reply to a persons post comment, press on the little arrow in the blue square next to their signature name, and it will bring up the name you are responding to in the reply box below. Then we will all know who and which post you are replying to
.
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cheeers!!
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@Craig Mc: cheers!!
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@Craig Mc: Mate you are not reading what I am saying. I am not talking about Manchester United fans. I am talking about the way United handles signings and the fact that they rarely make big enough signings that they turn into a circus atmosphere. I was poking fun at United and comparing their signing of Owen with Madrid and their signing of United. More passion and more interest all round for Ronaldo because Madrid went for the gusto and never settled on a washed up old scouser. How did this get into a discussion about the fans? Where in anything did I write and put down the passion or interest of the fans? My point is that we sign nothing thus getting nothing close to a circus atmosphere where Madrid make big news and sign three major players and have coming out parties for them. My point was United’s lack of ambition and the fact they have given United fans nothing in years to get really excited about from the point of view of signings. Every signing we make is under the radar and usually gets little attention. And then we parade the player out to the media but we never create an even t for the fans to enjoy a new signing and get acquainted with a new player.
Fact is United are to corporate in the way they do things. Cold and clinical and too businesslike. Superstars want a big event to mark their signing for a team and that’s one of the big reasons why they like to play for Madrid and Barca or bigger Italian teams. Two countries that treat their footballing superstars like pop culture icons. How this rant of mine came to an insult of United fans I will never know mate. Sorry but my mood is not hampering my mentality and my intelligence. It’s my mother who is suffering from dementia, not me. I love the Mancunian supporters and I for one feel they deserve better than they have received in terms of consideration and respect from our manager and our club.
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@jamie lee: I see what you are saying but you have to know that a truly dynamic and properly run 4-3-3 does not force the two wing forwards to play that wide. They play much more towards the middle and link up much more with the central striker. This is much more like the way the game was played in the 70′s with the 4-3-3 being the way of the world outside of the UK. It wasn’t so much a case of a striker and a left winger and right winger as much as it was a case of a striker with a right forward and a left forward. Completely different positions where those wide players cut in a lot and spent more time in the box trying to score goals and interchanging. I think it would suit Rooney well. last year we were to cautious and Fergie used Park in a completely defensive manner despite playing him as a wide forward. I don’t think that is what would happen this year if we were to get Aguero and with Valencia already on the team.
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