Dec 13
Tottenham v Manchester United – Match Thread
According to my watch, Manchester United take on Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane in about 4.5 hours. I imagine there’s plenty of people here looking to sound off pre and post match, so I’ll stay out of the way after a few links to keep you good company:
- If you can’t watch the game (stream or on tv), you can follow the live blog with Victor here.
- Brian Kingston has written an obituary on Gary Neville’s career (I repeat, his career, not the man himself) – it’s a good read but I wonder if Nev will know when to call it quits considering that the time came and went at the end of last season…
- Looking beyond Tottenham, Al Ahly lost to Pachuca 2-4, so there’s one potential Club World Cup opponent out of the picture.
- No news yet on whether Carrick, Ferdinand or Berbatov will play, although Ronnie is supposed to make an appearance and our troublesome twosome Rooney and Evra will be sitting out due to suspensions. It’s why we have these ‘squad players’, you know…
Alright then, my prediction for the game: Tottenham 1-1 United. Over to you.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Aston Villa v Manchester United: Preview/Match thread
- United on Top of the league, for now
- Man Utd v QPR: Preview
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (485)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (348)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Martin: Im afraid you have come to the wrong blog, No one knows who you are or where you come from but your are swiftly becoming unwelcome. I suggest you change your attitude before RedRanter comes back, because at the moment you are on a fast track to getting banned.
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@RedDevilEddy: Matey don’t fall down to his level he is not worth it, in Grog we trust!
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@Stephen:
Maybe you are reading too much into it. But another perspective can be : Fergie is giving him too much of a free rein. This is debatable but, we havent seen a player of Ronaldo’s calibre since Cantona left. Scholes, Giggs, becks, RVN were all very good but none of them were ” the best player in the world”. So I guess, his arrogance needs to be curbed by SAF.
Scholes isnt as attack minded as he was but, he doesnt defend as much too does he?
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@UnitedUnited: You maybe right mate, but I think Scholes can be used as a deep lying playmaker with Andy to get forward and Carrick to sit and screen the defence, as well as tick the game over.
I must admit when we signed Veron I thought we had signed one of the best players in the world, but wasn’t to be, but Fergie playing him off a main striker and right mid probably didn’t help!
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Ben Foster has broke a finger in training….
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@Beachryan: “we do have a 6?1?, two footed, lightning quick, great leaping best finisher at the club, who is being marginalized out on the wing”.. well said mate. Quite my sentiments.
).
striker, but I am in favour of giving him more limelight within the box. I’ve stated this b4, that Ronaldo does not have the free license to roam and license to shoot as he did in the last season, and that is impacting his performances. He can cross all day if he likes, but then who’s gonna put them into the net?? (Berbatov hardly visits the box these days, Looney can try but he won’t be able to finish, and Tevez wouldn’t be able to reach em!) Think his limitation to flanks gets him frustrated many times (I’d like to optimistically take this as the reason for his recent attitude and form
Ronnie needs to be in & around the box, cutting in from wide positions. And then the confidence and the goals would come. And by heavens do we need em!
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@Beachryan: “we do have a 6?1?, two footed, lightning quick, great leaping best finisher at the club, who is being marginalized out on the wing”.. well said mate. Quite my sentiments.
I’m not saying we play him as a leading striker, but I am in favour of giving him more limelight within the box. I’ve stated this b4, that Ronaldo does not have the free license to roam and license to shoot as he did in the last season, and that is impacting his performances. He can cross all day if he likes, but then who’s gonna put them into the net?? (Berbatov hardly visits the box these days, Looney can try but he won’t be able to finish, and Tevez wouldn’t be able to reach em!) Think his limitation to flanks gets him frustrated many times (I’d like to optimistically take this as the reason for his recent attitude and form
).
Ronnie needs to be in & around the box, cutting in from wide positions. And then the confidence and the goals would come. And by heavens do we need em!
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Paul Ince got the sack for Blackburn…
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MArtin: Dude get the f out of this blog u prick..U really are getting onto people’s nerves here..this is a site where people are free to express their opinion so if you cant take it then Fuck off mate!!!just leave us the fuck alone u little twat..
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Why are my comments waiting moderation?
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@Stephen: That’s my FIFA 09 Formation, Baby! We run shit.
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@Patrick: Quality
, it might be worth another go as Scholes hasn’t got the legs anymore, Carrick can screen the back four and Andy can do all the leg work and get forward. It would free up the two R’s to really do what they want, and Berba can hold the line but also drop in to allow the other two boys to run through, maybe worth a punt.
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I like the idea of 4-3-3′s and 4-1-2-1-2′s, but it leaves you susceptible to counterattacks on the wing and decreases your ability to get your fullbacks forward because it is difficult to cover for them effectively in formations that clog the center of the pitch. Furthermore, considering that Rafael, while the lad clearly has a future as bright as the sun, is only 18, to leave him on an island with both attacking and defensive responsibilities with little cover would be irresponsible and bad for his development.
The 4-4-2 is the formation of choice for most teams because it provides the most balance and strength, both going forward and in defense. Additionally, given our admitted inability to score when given the opportunity, moving to a more attack-oriented formation is a risky maneuver. It isn’t for a lack of chances that we’ve failed to score of late. We’ve dominated possession and pinned teams back for long durations with nothing to show for it. I don’t think that moving a winger into the front line would really make any difference. And besides, Ronaldo is pretty much a third attacker as is. He has very little defensive responsibility and isn’t too diligent in his efforts to get back.
These are the questions that lay before us, as I see them:
-Who do we play in the hole, Berbatov or Rooney? Do we place the bigger target man, Berbatov, in the hole, robbing Rooney of his mobility and movement in order to keep a predatory striker up front? Do we place Rooney in the hole and take away a fine target for direct aerial attacking in order to place Berbatov, who leads the team in assists, in the poachers role? Or do we allow both of them to move freely, while risking the chance that the 6 yard box may be vacant at crucial moments?
-What are our expectations for our holding midfielders? Do we expect them to get forward very often? Do we want them penetrating back lines? Do we expect their first responsibility to be defensive, protecting the back four? How do we get more goals, or any goals, out of the position? Considering our miserly defense, couldn’t it be expected that they could take more chances going forward and supplement the attack more regularly to provide more bodies in the box for those crosses that seem to find no one?
-Once we answer that question, what first team pairing fulfills that role?
-Who should be our first team left winger, Park or Nani? Nani has loads of potential and given regular first team opportunities may show returns on the promise he exhibited last year. He is a fine crosser of the ball, but as we have mentioned, no on in our side can get on crosses, so what is the point? He lacks the experience and football intelligence to make the runs that ask questions of defenses as regularly as Park does. Park, while clearly inferior in skill, size and athleticism, has a much greater work rate than Nani and makes the best runs in the side. His feet and size let him down quite often, but he certainly opens up defenses through his motor. He is not nearly the ball-stopper that Nani is, so the offense maintains better continuity when he is on the pitch.
That’s all….
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@Patrick: I agree on most points especially with regards to Rafael and the fact that he needs cover, but 4-3-3 or whatever people want to call it does allow your fullbacks to get forward as you have no natural width?
I am a 4-4-2 man like most United fans as that is what we have been brought up with, Park currently is a Fergie Favorite, with Nani redundant to the sidelines as he is a little erracitc and Park is a safer bet as he gives us cover but for the lack of a better word he gives us fuck all going forward. The other opion is to give Carlos a run on the left as he works his arse off and gives us something going forward? I know this again is square pegs in round holes, but we don’t have a natural left sided midfielder as Giggsy now does not have the legs, and we have three right midfielders not including Hargo competing for the right birth.
Or Another option is to give Andy a go on the left like Fergie did with Becks and Fletch who were both centre mids, (I know Beckham stayed out there due to his crossing ability), when they were younger to protect them a bit, and to give them first team action, the lad has a left foot which would give us a bit of balance out there.
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@Stephen: It’s not that I think Rafael couldn’t get forward in a 4-3-3, it’s that we would be vulnerable on the counterattack. Given that we can’t score goals lately, one counterattacking goal against will probably make the difference between 3 points or 1, or 1 point or 0.
I like the idea of Tevez on the wing, giving up on crosses aside from when our fullbacks overlap. If we could get Rooney, Berba, Ronaldo and Tevez in a free-form, short passing offensive attack with minimal crossing and an emphasis on interchanging parts I would love to see that. Aside from Berbatov, who lacks the motor to be effective on the wing, all of those parts are largely interchangeable. Placing Tevez on the wing would provide United with the ability to defend from the front, with Rooney and Tevez’s workrate providing United with the ability to regain possession in attacking positions.
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@Patrick: I agree, it is as I said square pegs, but it would bring back the flexibility we had from last season with the interchanging of positions which would create space for really all the forwards that will hopefully bring us more goals.
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@Karl: You are absolutely right mate. Thanks for that. I obviously cannot meet certain people face to face or I promise you they would piss their pants and the term old man would change to I’m sorry Sir. Red Ranter not being around has cause these trolls to latch on to the blog the way parasites do to bigger fish in the ocean. I will take your advice as the last thing I need or want is an ongoing monologue with a complete Neanderthal or two.
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@Rahul: I could use a little air support too thanks.
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@Martin: is a arsenalogist he is just trying to agrivate us bc his club and manager sux.
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@UnitedUnited: Thanks so much for the kind words. You put things very well. Yes I blog a lot and yes I do come across negative much of the time, but I’m sure other regulars like yourself have read positive comments from me many many times as well, humorous ones. The problem with some people is they fel threatened when others intimidate them intellectually. Because they are incapable of forming thought and expressing it the same way or as often, they lash out at those who can. Martin is an example of a modern day French Revolutionary who dreams of being Robespierre. He worries about me and my influence on this blog while dreaming of taking it over with his presence and putting my contributions on the chopping block. Little does he know that these actions will cause his own demise form this blog once Red Ranter returns. I’d suggest to him to get a grip, grow up and learn some manners, or else. Thanks again for the support from you and others. It means an awful lot to know that ones blog mates support my contributions and my knowledge. Greatly appreciated.
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@Beachryan: It’s going to be difficult because like Stephen’s term about square pegs, Berbatov’s square peg style is trying to fit in where all the other ones are round. Fergie has him playing to high up and that is literally killing his game. I feel for him because he is a class player through and through.
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@Stephen: I agree 100% with that formation. Beachryan had some interesting ideas but I do fear our defensive capabilities would have suffered greatly. One of our three big forwards (not counting Ronaldo) is going to have to accept a role coming off the bench. With that said, I like your formation and that one works very well for me. The only change I would make is Hargo for Scholes when he returns.
The key element is that Berbatov has to be played up top and kept there with very little tracking back. He can hold up longer direct balls to him and Rooney and Ronaldo can interweave and use their considerable talents and speed to support him. The speed of our fullbacks overlapping could really make this formation sing.
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@UnitedUnited: I’m trying to understand why a virtually unheard of Serbian kid would even challenge the pay structure offered to him by a club like United? It kind of makes me think he has the soul of a mercenary and the first chance he gets, he will jump to the team of his choice, once he has built a reputation for himself with us. Nice looking player but I question his commitment already.
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@Grognard: “The problem with some people is they fel threatened when others intimidate them intellectually. Because they are incapable of forming thought and expressing it the same way or as often, they lash out at those who can.”
“I obviously cannot meet certain people face to face or I promise you they would piss their pants and the term old man would change to I’m sorry Sir.”
“They just bring out the worst in you and you really would love to see the cowards come out from behind the computer and say those thing to me face to face. And although i don’t brag about this, I am one big (tall and heavy) mofo who
has fought many a douchbag in the past and who intimidates very easily in person. That may sound like bragging but it isn’t, it’s the truth. And yet, I am not a trouble maker or a person who seeks out fights or who gets drunk and ornery. But sometimes your reputation and character as well as your honor is challenged by surfing blog trolls who have nothing better to do than attack people like snakes in the grass. It’s low and it’s the sad and pathetic act of cowards.”
“Grow up you piece of trailer trash. You low class gutter snipe. You don’t come on to a blog and start to insult people and expect them to take it lightly because you want to make a name for yourself. The moderator of this blog is on holidays or you would certainly have been warned by now. This blog has rules. If you don’t like what I have to say, ignore it and move on. You don’t know me and you have no reason to serve up your poison due to the fact my thoughts aren’t simpatico with yours or because my age is such an issue. But then would I expect anything to be truly wired properly upstairs in that bone head of yours. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you antagonistic little dog’s pizzle.”
If anyone is bringing down the level of discourse on this blog it is you. Relax, mate.
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@Stephen: I agree. In fact his bread and butter play the past three years has been the vaunted back pass.
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@Stephen: You could be right but my theory is that he just has a very immature way of dealing with physical pain and frustration. He has been knocked around this season like no year before and he is hurting. I also think he is hurting over the way he has been treated by many fans (guys like him and myself are often very sensitive and we are prone to lashing out at others when we are abused) as well, he has been very frustrated with his own play. All these combined have had him turn on himself and the whole world. Hopefully he will get his head turned around soon or perhaps he is limiting his days with us and he doesn’t even realize it. His presence on the field seems to dictate our style of play. And right now we are not playing well because he is not playing well and is being physically marked out of games. Is it too bold a statement to say that when a team reaches this point, a fresh approach is needed and perhaps a fresh look with different players. Barca had to get rid of Ronaldinho in order to wake up. Perhaps United need to do the unthinkable also. I certainly don’t want to see him go, but would it be better for the team? What do you and others think?
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To lose Ronaldo would be penny-wise, pound foolish. Considering we have almost no aerial threats in our front six, rendering crosses pretty futile, getting rid of our most creative player and best playmaker on a team that is dependent upon breaking down opposition defenses off the dribble would be unwise. I understand that it worked for Barcelona, but they have Henry, Messi, and Eto’o, all of whom are capable of breaking down back lines on their own. Without Ronaldo we would be left with Rooney and the presently well out of form Nani. Everything would have to come through passing, which would make our inept offense even worse.
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@Patrick: Patrick, I thought you and I were beyond this point. Everyone of those quotes attribute to me were retaliatory in manner. I never start that kind of stuff but quite often I finish it. It’s my defense mechanism and although I am not proud of it, I occasionally use it because frankly, some people deserve it when they snipe at me out of nowhere.
My biggest gripes are not with you. I thought we had buried the hatchet and moved on. My gripe was with two others. So why not make peace with me? You might find that I’m not such a bad bloke after all? It’s hard to relax when I am baited into a confrontation and then I am blamed for all of it. Not fair, not even close. Especially when I never started the proceedings. Read other the thoughts of other long time members. They don’t seem to have a problem with me and they all are supportive of me. Why? Because they know over the past two years that I am not the trouble maker or the one that ever starts a fight. My problem is my pride and rage often never allows me to walk away and ignore the occasional troll who come on here just to pick a fight. This is a very peaceful and very happy and friendly community on Red Rants. Bullies and trolls are not welcome. Although you and I got off to a start, I noticed that you do have an interest in talking football. So lets talk football shall we. Whether we agree on points is not important. It’s sharing ideas thoughts, complaints and joy that matters. Don’t you agree? The less baiting and name calling on the blog, the better we all are. I’m no saint, I never claim to be, but I am also not an instigator of hate and bile. Being negative, impatient and discouraged by my team from time to time is certainly not a crime and certainly within mine and everyone’s rights. Why you seem to be having a problem with me is beyond me because like I said before, all my words of anger were made in retaliation. I am not the instigator, and that is very important here. Cheers!
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@Patrick: I don’t want to lose Ronaldo. But if our style of play is stagnating because of him, if his attitude is poisoning the dressing room, then perhaps it has to be looked at. Last Summer 90% of Mancunia wanted him gone. Again, I don’t want him gone, but remember that if we were to sell him, the money we would get would be a significant amount. Should The Glazer’s keep their grubby paws off it, the players we could buy would help turn the teams style of play and attitude around. Even with a healthy, happy Ronaldo, I feel that perhaps the opposition is catching up to us and has figured out a few methods to slow us down and minimize the amount of quality chances we get. Add to that our poor finishing of late and what you have is a team that’s temporarily out of whack. Patience may very well cure the problem. As you know, patience is not my strong point but, we’ll wait and see. In past years I’ve always had faith in Fergie even though it’s normal to often question some of his technical and tactical choices. But as he nears the age of 70, I wonder if he is still up for the challenge. Only time will tell whether I am right or whether I am wrong.
By the way, as you are new to the blog, if you are directing your comments to specific individual, before you begin typing in the box, click on the gray arrow next to his name and you will get his name show up in red next to your comment. If of course your comment is for all, then just continue as you have. I just thought I would help you with that.
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Feed the scousers, let them know its Chrsitmas time!
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@Grognard: Honeslty Grog, you cant mean that Ronaldo should leave.
He is getting critised for things that no-other person in the world would be critisised for. He just came back from a really bad injury, and he has gotten lots of knocks after he started hitting top form. Against Villa he got a bruised ankle, against Villareal he got studs flied in at full speed in his knee, against Shitty he was abused by Richards and against Sunderland he got a hip injury that took Rooney 3 weeks to recover from, while he only got 6 days. 
I cant remember the last game I saw when Ronaldo didnt get injured or got a knock. Its a disgrace… I dont think its so much Berbas fault anymore, as they both showed at the start of the season(West Brom, Aalborg, Celtic and West Ham) that they work really well together. Its just that Berba has been played “out of position” and Ronaldo has gotten injured approximately every other game. And, we have faceddifficult oppositions. I cant remember Ronny playing well against Spurs, Villa or Everton last season. Nor the games against Arsenal away(even though he scored), Rovers or Pompey. Maybe it is true Ronaldo is only great against medicore teams, and that is what has made him play so “badly” this season. The teams…
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@RedDevilEddy: how did you get anderson to score from a corner?
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@dan(u-ol): First I made Andy take the corner. Then I had to find the oerdect spot to aim at, before I had to choose the correct power and swerve. Believe me, I tried to score with him from the corner at least 5 times. But when I lead and dominate, I feel I have the right to shoot without any worries. You gotta try it out lots of times, it aint easy.
I score one with Nani once, from the other side, but it went via the goalies head. 
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@RedDevilEddy: I agree with you mate. As you know I am one of the vocal pro Ronaldo members. He’s one of my favorite footballers and I would be gutted if he left. However, one has to be able to make sense of all this negative body language from him. Also, would his leaving and then reinforcing the team with some talented new blood make this team better for years to come? We have become far to predictable so I am just floating the idea out there for debate. For the record, I do not want us to lose Ronaldo. Players like him come around once every thirty years. I do disagree with the notion that Ronaldo plays poorly against good teams. He gets far more attention and world class defending and marking when he faces a great club. It’s up to others on the team to pick up the slack when he is being double marked and hacked down. Right now we have a bunch of ball watchers who are waiting to see Ronaldo do something special. And it’s been difficult for him this year for all the reasons I have given earlier. As Rooney and Berbatov and others pick it up a bit more, and as Ronaldo starts to improve more from all his physical aches and pains, then I think we will see the real United. But then again, that may not happen. Not if he continues to get hacked down every game. How much can his body take? How much more can he take before his emotions totally get the better of him and he snaps? What this team needs on the pitch more than anything is a policeman like Keane. Someone who will send a message to opponents who try to hurt our lads. And we presently don’t have that. We have become a soft team without a physical or intimidating presence like our great sides in the 90′s. Back then the Guvner, Keane, Bruce and others would never let opponents get away with that kind of assault and battery on Cantona or other stars. Above all, Fergie wouldn’t stand for it. Controlled retaliation was part of the British game back then but the game has become so technical that emotions are secondary to function. I’m not advocating dirty play, but a team needs players who will send a quick and direct message to violators. God knows the referees in this league are muppets.
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I was watching Football Fone-In on FSC last night and their guest was Robbie Earle. He said he believes the reason for Berbatov’s fall-off in form was due to the fact that he spent last year moping around White Hart Lane. He suggested that when you are moping, your form drops off. Therefore, he said it was just a matter of time until he was able to regain his prior form since, as he believes, it takes months to gain top form in modern football.
With that said, I think the same thing could be said for Ronaldo. His time spent moping around has seriously plagued his play of late. I don’t know what we can do with him, for he is virtually irreplaceable. But if his demeanor doesn’t improve quickly, Sir Alex will have to decide whether his relationship with the side is reconcilable. I know he has carried several knocks and really received some rough treatment this year, but he seems less patient with all of it because of his slight displeasure with still being at Old Trafford. Alot of this is speculation, of course, because I don’t know the lad so I can’t say if he is truly unhappy. But every physical cue he gives suggests that he may be eying an exit eventually.
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@RedDevilEddy: Further to the topic of protecting Ronaldo with a policman, I just read that Mark van Bommel is interested in joining one of the Big Four in England. Long noted for being a superior defensive midfielder and above all, a very physical hard player, van Bommel is just what we need to police the pitch and ofer the defensive protection we need. Bayern look ready to let him go at the end of the season because they are buying the Ukranian Tymoschuk who is younger and also very good as a DMF. van Bommel is not everyone’s cup of tea but his grit and graft on the pitch along with his no nonsense attitude would send a quick message to opponents who feel they have the freedom to cripple our stars. MVB is hated in Germany by the rest of the teams and their supporters because he is a no nonsense sheriff out on the pitch. He also has a great long distance shot, is a good header and a very good passer. He would be a good answer for us for a few years.
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@Grognard: Agree with your last post. Fletcher is the closest thing we have to a midfield enforcer and the lad weights next to nothing. He just wins balls on sheer grit and determination, but I can’t believe he is too intimidating. I thought Hargreaves might have been able to fill that void, but lord knows he can’t stay on the pitch.
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@Grognard: I would rather have De Rossi, Gattusso or even our own Hargo instead of MVB. Its not that I think he is a bad player, its just that I think those three are much better suited for United. Ive watched MvB before, and his play doesnt impress me. Good long-range shot, yeah. Tough tackler, yeah. But I dont like the fella. Maybe its just me…
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A couple questions of those of you from England:
1) Why isn’t there a more thorough compendium of statistics for football. It seems as though there are categories that could be compiled that are not. Additionally, where do you go to find statistics on the web?
2) I have always enjoyed the fact that football commentators are somewhat anonymous. I just saw Robbie Earle for the first time in my life last night and I’ve probably heard him call 50 games. It’s such stark contrast with American sports where the commentators are just as much celebrities as the players themselves. I was wondering if it has always been this way, and why?
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@Patrick: I agree with you on the form issue. When your attitude is all out of whack and you have been pouting for a long time, it’s tough to turn it up a notch automatically and go out and perform. Berbatov has struggled to find intensity in his game and for me he has been far too tentative. Always looking to pass rather than shoot. His confidence is not yet there but playing him so high up is not going to bring that confidence out.
As for Ronaldo, yes he seems to be crying and bitching about everything and it’s only a matter of time before members of the team just say enough and tell him to grow up. Once that happens, the end will come sooner than later. He has been mistreated by opponent player, fans and even our own supporters. His temper and his patience has reached the boiling point and he will snap. His emotional Latin personality will only take so much. What is very surprising is how Fergie deals with him. The kid gloves approach is not like him. All our great players in the past have received his wrath when they were acting poorly or jeopardizing the team. Cantona, Keane, Hughes, Ince, Beckham, Bruce, RVN, Heinze, Giggs etc have all felt his anger and the hairdryer. Some like Becks have felt the boot. But none of them had such a fragile personality and temper like Ronaldo. And none of them threatened to quit and demand a move to Real like he did over the Summer. When Beckham, Heinze and RVN pissed off the boss, he shipped them off to Madrid. He wasn’t knuckling down to their demands, he was letting diminishing assets go. With Ronaldo he seems very reluctant to let the lad go. Almost afraid to upset him or get him thinking of leaving. I’m not saying that’s what is happening, but as outsider looking in, it’s hard to read it any other way. It appears that Ronaldo has our team by the balls and we are afraid of him squeezing too tightly. What he needs as well as Rooney is some good old fashioned disciplining. Sit him down for a few games and scream a bit at them and let them know who is in charge and what they are doing on the pitch will no longer be tolerated. In that way he will regain the respect of the locker room as well as send a signal to all that it’s time to wake up and start playing harder. No more free passes.
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@Patrick: I think we can catergorise Anderson as a midfield enforcer as well. He is a good tackler, energetic, hard and can dominate games when given the chance. I think he is like Fletcher, only better, taller, faster, stroner. Okey, not taller, but better, faster and stronger. Plus, more skillful and better passing range.
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@Patrick: Excellent points. Germany has a couple of outstanding databases for statistical and historical information on players, teams and the leagues. As I am one who appreciates the past, I have often borrowed this in for from Germany and created my own teams and leagues in past versions of Pro Evolution Soccer. Just a fun pastime and hobby but I was always very frustrated with what little information is available for England. For years I loved the commentary of John Motson and I only got to see what he looked like last year. The best site I have found is http://www.soccerbase.com It’s far from perfect but it goes back years so that one can see results and even lineups for games. It’s very difficult though to find statistical information on players other than how many goals they have scored and games played.
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@Grognard: Agree with everything! Couldnt have placed it better myself.
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@Grognard: When Hillary Clinton was nominated as Secretary of State, a lot of people suggested that this was a bad move because Barack Obama had hired someone he couldn’t fire. I think the same thing could be said of Ronaldo these days. He is the prototypical modern athlete who is fully aware of his worth and wields his power in destructive ways at times. He knows that he is in a win-win. He is the best player in the squad on most days and if he is allowed to leave he will only cement his legendary status by inevitably lifting the form of whatever club he joins. He is unlike Becks, RVN and Heinze in that his game is more multi-dimensional. There are no replacement cogs for a player of his quality. His leaving would precipitate a rebuilding process for the club, the same could not be said for the aforementioned players.
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@Grognard: Yeah, I’ve been there before. Appreciate the post.
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@Patrick: Hargo is a ball winner and a pest but he is not an enforcer. I have watched him play ever since he was seventeen and he just doesn’t get physical. In fact, I think he has only had one red card in his entire career. A clean player who would rather use cunning and speed to get the ball. Van Bommel on the other hand can get very nasty and that is why he leads every league he is ever in with yellow cards. He is a no nonsense type player who is also very vocal and a leader. It’s rare when a German team, especially Bayern choose a foreign player as their captain. That is the reason for it.
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@Patrick: Very true. Fergie made the mistake a few years back in building our whole attack around Ronaldo. I understand that. Being Canadian and having been brought up with hockey, basketball and American football, I can remember teams building their attack around a specific player. I also remember some players realizing that and holding the team hostage come contract renewal time. The one that I am reminded the most is when Emmitt Smith refused to play at the beginning of the 1993 season for the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys offense was loaded with stars but the offense was designed to go through Emmitt. A large dose of Smith a game and the chances were very high Dallas would win. Jimmy Johnson was good coach but his one dimensional thinking hurt the team for the first two games of that year because Smith didn’t play. The Cowboys with all that talent, looked useless. Once Smith returned, everything fell into place and they went on to win the league and Super Bowl. Look at the Bulls with Jordan. Unitl Pippen showed up they were one dimensional as Hell , but in their case and in the case of the Cleveland Cavaliers with LeBron James, you have to use your star because the rest of the players around them just aren’t that good.
Fergie should use the model Glen Sather used for hockey’s last great dynasty, the 1980′s Edmonton Oilers. They had the great Wayne Gretzky but the coach built a team that could play very well without Gretzky. Multiple formations and styles of play allowed the team to show great flexibility. So when Gretzky was traded for scrap players and a lot of money, Edmonton felt the shock but within a year they once again won the Stanley Cup.
United are far from being a one man team but when the system of play constantly emphasizes that one player rather than being a free form style that promotes individuality and encourages others to contribute more, then you will eventually get bogged down. For us to play great football, Ronaldo has to be 100% fit and in form. Since that’s clearly not the case, we are struggling. Fergie needs to change things and free up others to express themselves more.
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@RedDevilEddy: I’m not disagreeing with you however, Gattuso and DeRossi have not shown any interest in coming here to play. And as for Hargo, the jury is still out on whether he recovers well enough to claim his starting spot.
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@Patrick: Obama wanted individuals who could challenge him and who would not be afraid to speak up. No coach or manager should ever allow players that same kind of privilege. If they did, the game would be in anarchy. You see Hillary is in many circles the equal to Obama in everything except position. Ronaldo is not the equal of Ferguson in power or influence. He is just a glorified pawn for the boss to move around. Once Ronaldo realizes that, the sooner he will grow up. I somehow doubt that will ever happen however. Fergie has given him a very long rope to hang himself.
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@RedDevilEddy: Actually the guy for me besides Hargo would be Marco Senna. He possesses a physical side to his game that is attractive and as desirable as he other skills.
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