Jul 14

Two clubs going in opposite directions

imageI hope I am not going to be grilled over the coals for this article but sometimes I just can’t help myself. As some of you already know by now, I am a die-hard Bayern Munich supporter and I have been so since 1972. Yes I love Manchester United as much if not more but I am seriously concerned over the difference in direction both clubs are going when it comes to their collective futures.

Manchester United may be coming off another Premier League winning season but we have all noticed for several years now a decline in the club’s overall quality, especially in Europe.

Now, the club moves forward without our talisman and coaching czar, Sir Alex Ferguson. Meanwhile in the green and lush hills of Bavaria, FC Bayern Munchen are building a juggernaut so large, so imposing and so deadly that I am seriously doubting anyone’s ability to dethrone them in Germany yet alone Europe for at least three years if not longer.

Both clubs have had proud traditions and have always done business in a professional and approving manner. But then a funny thing happened to Munich starting back in 2010. They lost the Champions League final to Inter. Then hated rivals Borussia Dortmund dethroned them and beat them mercilessly for two seasons. The final straw was the embarrassing loss at home to a clearly inferior Chelsea side in the 2012 Champions League final. Well Bayern’s hierarchy of Chairman Uli Hoeness and President Karl-Heinz Rummenigge said enough is enough. German pride and hubris took over and the demand for perfection was the goal. First bit of business was to clean house of unwanted players. Gone was Breno, Olic, Petersen, Usami, Butt, and Pranjic. Then the club hired former German legend Matthias Sammer replaced then sporting director Christian Nerlinger with Sammer who then proceeded with the blessing of both Hoeness and Rummenigge to reshape the club.

Big bucks were spent. In came Mario Mandzukic, Dante, Xherdan Shaqiri, Claudio Pizarro and the missing link to their squad Xavi Martinez broke the German transfer record. The rest is history. Meanwhile, Manchester United did an admirable job winning the Barclay’s Premier League in a funny season where most of the major clubs in the EPL underachieved. In Germany, Bayern went on to set Bundesliga records for wins, points, goals, fewest goals conceded, then they went on to win the German Cup. The final topping on the cake was their demolition of the competition in Europe, especially Juventus and Barcelona on their way to the Champions League title. And just to add some sprinkles to that three-tiered cake, they also had the time and money to sign the most coveted manager in world football Pep Guardiola as they asked him to take over the helm at season’s end. This was a masterful and awesome treble winning campaign and yet there was more to come. Two more massive pieces of business occurred that have rocked the football world, the acquisition of world-class talents Mario Goetze and most recently Thiago Alacantara.

The reason for all this Bayern love juice pouring out of me is that as a fan of both Bayern and Manchester United I am caught between two worlds. My love for football has been split into a dichotomy, but a very unbalanced one. While one of my clubs seems intent on ruling the world and getting straight “A’s”, the other seems content on mediocrity and just passing the exam. Bayern Munich has always been run with a responsible monetary model and yet they have always craved success and wanted to be the best in Germany and a regular contender in Europe. Well in the past two seasons they seem to have pushed the envelope beyond that.

Bayern Munich RiberyTwo losses in three years in the Champon’s League final and back to back Bundesliga failures at the hands of Dortmund has turned Bayern into a ravenous pack of German Sheppards. While they have a surplus of cash to spend, they are being aggressive about building a super club that will be the toast of Europe for years to come, while always maintaining their German roots and monopoly of players for the German National Team. Success has made them even hungrier for silverware. They aren’t willing to sit on their laurels and be satisfied with the dream season of 2012/13. They are greedy and they want more.

Already they are trying to secure a deal with Dortmund that will allow Robert Lewandowski to stay with Dortmund for one more season whereupon, he will be allowed to move to Bayern unrestricted. All this and the injection of Tiki Taka and False Nines and Pepanomics and Bayern are truly planning for a long dominant stay at the top of world football.

Now lets look at my other love, Manchester United. Can I honestly feel as optimistic and enthused about the future and potential of this great and proud club? No. Oh yes this season plans to be very interesting and I returned to Red Rants simply because I was looking forward to the season, but admittedly not without a lot of trepidation and uncertainty.

Sir Alex Ferguson shakes hands with David MoyesOur beloved manager Sir Alex Ferguson has retired. The greatest manager professional sports history has left and in his place comes the somewhat successful David Moyes. Certainly not the jaw dropper I was expecting. I so wanted Man Utd to deliver a coup with the same impact of Bayern. If Bayern can get Pep Guardiola well we can get Jose Mourinho I thought. BZZZZZZZ! Wrong. No Fergie in his infinite wisdom decided to comply with the Glazer demands for a “Yes Man”. So he contacted David Moyes. I cannot express to all of you how that announcement knocked the wind out of my sails.

Like I have expressed myself many times before, I have nothing against David Moyes. For the umpteenth time I will declare him a fine manager and a good man and a manager who would have been perfect for Manchester United…..if the year was 1986.

See I have felt for a while that David Moyes and his former club Everton seemed caught in a time rift with their direct, long ball footy. 4-4-2 is an antiquated and medieval formation and I fear United are heading back to the War of the Roses tactically and strategically. Sam Allardyce, Brendan Rodgers, Ian Holloway, Harry Redknapp and Paul Lambert are all fine managers but not one of them is qualified to follow Fergie at Manchester United. Although I rate David Moyes higher than them, despite the fact he comes from the same old school British tradition of football that they all graduated from his methods at face value and from past accomplishments seem outmoded, stale and not in line with what we have become accustomed to at Old Trafford.

Lets face it, Everton played hard and tough football but they also reeked of boredom and suffered from a lack of imagination and creativity. And yes I know, Moyes has more talent to work with now but my concern is; will Moyes drag us down with the likes of Liverpool to the lower depths of footballing despair? Or is he really a hidden genius who will elevate his game and that of Manchester United and better the product Sir Alex left for him? The prospects aren‘t that grim but they are nevertheless shrouded in fog. Just what will this new United club look like? I haven’t got a clue.

What I do know is we are not playing the game like Bayern Munich on the pitch as well as off. We show no hunger or aggressiveness in the transfer market, we show no eye of the tiger and willingness to get down and dirty to get our man and we have yet to show intent with any major targets nor do we have the transfer funds available that a club like Bayern have at their disposal. And that for me is what upsets me most and is at the crux of the problem.

jurgen klopp and jose mourinhoAlthough I do not rate Moyes on the same level with Mourinho, Klopp and Guardiola, I do feel he could do a good job if we were able to sign some more big names while at the same time showing the exit door to players like Wayne Rooney, Anderson, Pat Evra and Nani. Instead we seem dead set on keeping players who feel unwanted, lack the proper attitude and motivation, lack the skill set or suffer from a diminishing skill set. We keep players on the payroll that are no longer worthy and we don’t have the aggressiveness to pursue world class talent in the transfer market before other clubs step in and conduct their business expediently. I’m sick and bloody tired of it.

I want, NO, I demand Manchester United find it’s hidden mojo and that they start acting like Bayern Munich or even better, act the way the supposedly richest club in the world with the number one brand should. While Bayern have offered Pep Guardiola a transfer kitty of 120 million and a club that is in the black financially, the Glazer’s offer their new manager a sack of change and 400 million pounds of debt. And please, to all those pro Glazer advocates (all three of you on planet Earth), stick it in your ear because I’m not buying your BS, nobody else with an IQ higher than 3 does either.

Up to now United has suffered and survived through the Glazer regime because one man, Fergie was strong enough, smart enough and intimidating enough to keep us on top in England, if not so much in Europe. He had the ability to keep the good ship United on course and competitive because he was clearly “da man”. There will never be another like him and I feel we all will suffer from his absence because the owners haven’t got the insight, the forethought and the willingness to do whatever it takes to ensure United’s ship has nothing but clear seas ahead.

The news from Old Trafford is that Moyes has been given a healthy transfer kitty to buy players. Well I’m here to say that the Glazer’s definition of a healthy transfer kitty and mine are two entirely different portions of meat. Bayern have a 120 million pound transfer budget, Barca and Real Madrid often spend in 60 to 80 million range annually. Manchester United have been stuck on that 20 to 30 million level for a long time. Sometimes they go over when Fergie’s demanded a Berbatov or an RVP but generally the money that is served up can buy a combination of Phil Jones and Shinji Kagawa per season. Nice players but I demand more. Mario Goetze and Xavi Martinez each cost twice that amount. And Ronaldo and Falcao would cost two to three times that amount. The reason I bring them up is because clubs like PSG and Monaco or a few Russian clubs are willing to pay the going price to get players of that calibre. Why should a club steeped in tradition and success like Manchester United be operating financially like Liverpool, Newcastle and Southampton, when we should be emulating the other elite clubs in world football? Hell, Liverpool should too except they are also snake bitten by greedy American ownership.

Ozil and GötzeI’m royally ticked off folks, I’m sorry. For all of you who think I should stuff it and go follow Bayern I say stick it. I love Manchester United. I wanted Thiago to play for United, not Bayern. I want United to meet Bayern in the Champions League final and beat them, honestly I do. I have been crying for United to sign German players like Neuer, Ozil, Goetze, Schweinsteiger and Muller for years now, but to no avail. I am jealous and envious of Bayern. While as a fan I look forward to their season, I have anxiety and tightness in my belly over what’s happening, or should I say what’s not happening with Manchester United.

I am growing increasingly worried and paranoid that the wonderful roller coaster ride that was the Sir Alex Ferguson era has ended and the car we were all riding on is now going to derail. I hope not for David Moyes and all our sakes. I sincerely hope David Moyes proves me and other doubters wrong and blows us all away with a great club that plays creative, imaginative attacking football. Yeah right, and John Lydon is going to become Prime Minister while Southampton wins the Barclays Premier League. Prove me wrong Dave, prove me wrong.

I wish Moyes well but my wishes approval are not what he needs. He needs the hand of God to strike down the Glazer menace and put this club in the hands of owner(s) who give a damn about the fans and about the product on the field and not just about spreading and marketing the brand to better line their greedy pockets. Some would say they lack the insight to realize that when the product on the field starts to decline, so will their licensing and brand empire. Bu they don’t care. They will milk the cow for as long they can before the old gal goes dry. Then they will sell, saddle the debt on other or just leave the club in tatters. Enough already Glazer’s go home. Better yet, go straight to Hell.

Have a nice day, United for life.


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Tags: Manchester United · Opinion Piece

67 Responses to “Two clubs going in opposite directions”

  • Without reading anything but title and intro: how can Bayern move further up. They the perfect season. It can only get worse.

    For United, if we challenge for the title this year (which we will), we’ll be AT LEAST as good as last year. If we go further than 1st round of UCL, we’ll be AT LEAST as good as last year.

    Seems like we can easily improve while Bayern will struggle to do so (purely by their insane success last year).

  • Exactly my thoughts! Well written article!

  • mate i 100% wholeheartedly agree with your rant i to always feel the same way but som e others keep trying to justify moyes’ appointment but i now a lot of people know his appointment would have a detrimental and significant impact upon our ability to sign players. It would have been great had ferguson actually shown his genius a bit more in the transfer market by actually signing a centre midfielder, why had he not seen that for five years or simply refused to buy it despite not only the fans but often the opposition managers as well as crushing defeats that were blatantly obviously due to the lack of quality that come through the centre of the park. (BARCELONA STRAIGHT TO MIND)It is indeed painful to see us now going for players who are not on the radars of the other European giants or who we may feel is to expensive and sadly going for scraps after everyone has done their business. The level of performance from many who we have especially that mid area is scary and sad to say the least as well as confirms as painful as it is to say we will not be winning the CL any time in the near future.

  • Isn’t the first rule of business that you must speculate to accumulate. Whilst the hierarchy at Bayern have realised this and acted, unfortunately the Glazers still think they can do it on the cheap. If you look at German football as a whole, Joachim Löewe has set the precedent of making the national team almost family like, their togetherness is apparent. The top clubs such as Bayern and Dortmund have followed suit. Of course it’s still about money but the difference is the fans matter. These clubs are run by football people for football people.
    Now compare the Glazers. To them Man Utd is a business interest, nothing more. They aren’t football people, they probably don’t give a shit about football, they are in it for the money only. They don’t care about tradition unless it is a sales point.
    Is there a togetherness at Utd? Do the fans matter? Do the Glazers care about anything other than profit? Until the answer to all these questions is yes, we will always be going in the opposite direction.
    It pains me to say it, but even Man City and Chelsea are run by people who have football at heart. People who want their team to be a success because they love football, not profit. Until we have owners that love Utd as much as the fan on the street it can never be the same.

  • A huge contributor to Bayern’s success is their excellent financial status.Also they’ve continuously bought world class players season upon season.Robben,Martinez and Neur to name a few.

    Unfortunately United are not in a position to do that and rely mainly on our youth products and good scouting. Both of which I feel United are failing,considering the magnitude of the club. We don’t find and develop players like Porto and Dortmund do and the academy doesn’t really produce world class players.

    If we are to continue challenging for honours Moyes has to find ways of improving the team with the budget he’s got,something he has vast experience with at Everton.
    This season,be it successful or not,will be more of a learning one than anything for Moyes.

  • this article is basically a grown man crying over football. united will be fine. we may stumble. we may fall. but we will challenge and thats all you can ask of moyes in his 1st season no matter who he signs or doesnt sign for that matter – testify

    • @RMPmaster: How do you know we’ll challenge? We might fall 20 points behind Chelsea and out of the title race by November for all you know.

      Your comment actually proves Grognard’s point. You admit that the best we can hope for under David Moyes is to “challenge” for trophies. Whereas under Sir Alex Ferguson the expectation was to WIN those trophies, every year. Those were the high standards Sir Alex set. In appointing David Moyes (and not even giving him any clout in the transfer market either) it’s undeniable that standards have now been lowered at United.

      So why is it “crying” to complain about this? What’s wrong with wanting the best for our club?

      The suits who run our club often claim that United is the biggest club in the world and boast about our financial might, but they clearly aren’t concerned with the team actually being the best on the pitch. Just good enough to “challenge” right? Just good enough to keep the money flowing into their pockets.

    • @RMPmaster: There is nothing wrong with a grown man crying over his football team. It means he cares and that he also has passion. I tend to never be the guy who puts his hands in front of his mouth, eyes and ears. I give a damn and I not easily duped by the corporation having had plenty of experience personally dealing with greedy corrupt corporations. Sit back and watch the decay spread or do something about it.

  • tonymontanna4united

    The simple reason for Bayern’s improvement these last few years is that they have bought excellently in the transfer market, and have no financial limitations unlike us (thanks glazers).
    You only need look back to that 2010 home tie against them, where we absolutely battered them for the best part of 60 minutes to see how much and exactly where they have improved.

    Their team that night was:

    Butt, Demichelis, Van Buyten, Badstuber, Lahm, Van Bommel, Schweinsteiger, Ribery, Mueller, Robben, Olic.

    That’s a good team without doubt. There’s still the likes of Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Robben, Ribery and Robben who played such a big part in their CL success this season and would obviously walk into most teams in Europe.
    Its basically got the core of a good squad, but looking at that side, its quite clear that they are lacking in defence, in goal and could probably do with a better striker and a replacement for the 35+ year old Van Bommel.
    So what do Bayern do? Well they go out and buy exceptionally, in exactly every one of those positions they are lacking.
    So over the next 3 years they bring in the likes of Neuer, Dante, Martinez and Mandjukic, whilst also giving chances to some of their young exceptional talent who have come up through their youth team in the likes of Alaba and Kroos. No waiting around and risking losing them for lack of playing time because they prefer to live in the past and keep playing 37/38 year olds ahead of them :roll:
    Basically Bayern have taken a good look at their squad, analysed where exactly they are lacking, and have been prepared to spend the big bucks to address them.

    Contrast that to us, our team that night was:

    Van der Sar, Rafael, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson, Nani, Rooney, Valencia.

    Since then, we’ve obviously had to go out and replace Edwin with DDG, who I personally think has been a fantastic signing for us and fair play, the scouting system deserves credit for that. There’s obviously also RVP, and what a signing hes been.
    Id also say we’ve improved the general squad since then. The likes of Jones, Smalling, Evans, Cleverley and Hernandez are improvements on Gibson, O’Shea, Park, Macheda and the like.
    However we’re still here, with evra and the LB spot still a problem (regardless of what people say of him having a “superb” season, he was still at fault for a lot of the goals and is in his 30s now). Young players like Fabio, who could be our Alaba equivalent, never given more than a game here and there.
    We’re still persisting with Valencia who at best is half way reliable yet extremely limited, at worst looks way out of his depth.
    We’ve seemingly told nani, our only exciting winger, capable of scoring and assisting more than anyone since ronaldo left, he can piss off for peanuts (hes apparently inconsistent despite scoring/assisting nearly 70 goals in his last 120 games :roll: ).
    All the while totally pissing away over £20m on the likes of young and bebe, who were never going to be good enough to make it here, whilst seemingly having had absolutely no interest in the likes of the Mata’s and Silva’s of this world who went for similar amounts.
    And then obviously there’s the midfield. Its quite staggering to think its been 6 years, since the 2007 transfer window where we bought Anderson and Hargreaves, that we last bought a midfielder.
    6 Bloody years.
    So many fantastic midfielders weve just plain old fucking ignored because apparently there was no one in world football better than a nearly 40 year old winger asked to play midfield, a 37 year old once brilliant midfielder way past his peak, an overweight Brazilian and the likes of jones (a defender) and fletcher (with an illness) etc.
    Oh and we’ve also lost one of the best young prodigy’s in world football because likewise, we didn’t think he was ready for first team football yet (if he’d have been patient he’d have surely seen some football atleast by the time he was 25 maybe :roll: ).

    That for me sums our transfer strategy up the last few years, and has shown exactly why the 2 clubs have seemingly gone in 2 very different directions.
    I don’t actually think the squad overall is that appalling.
    There’s certainly, in my view anyway, a lot of potential in this team with the likes of Smalling, Jones, Fabio, Zaha, Januzaj and Powell.
    Defensively I think were in excellent shape (although we do need to start the transition from rio and Vida to jones/smalling/evans now), and in attack if we we’re only to give nani a new contract and a run in the side, and maybe bring in a replacement should we lose rooney (jovetic has been linked), then I think in attack too we’re in half way decent shape.
    Its not exactly a secret, but whats desperately let us down the last few years has been our total negligence of the midfield, and it has cost us big time on many occasions (none more so than the embarrassments we had to witness in the 2 CL finals at the hands of Barca).
    There’s obviously a whole host of other things too, like many a time fergie rotating the side too much which was partly responsibly for us going out in the CL group stages 2 years ago, and also tactically we’ve been lacking more than a few times against the best sides.
    But mainly though, its been our transfer strategy, and lack of buying world class in areas we need, rather than buying quantity for the sake of quantity or buying for the future that has hurt us.
    A few more signings in the RVP mould in that midfield of ours, and I think the team would be looking very strong.
    Obviously then comes the argument of Moyes and how hes going to fare which is a fair enough concern really considering the little hes achieved so far in his career but that’s another argument.
    Hopefully first and foremost, he does what Fergie has neglected to do for so long, and goes out and follows the Bayern blue print, and buys quality in the areas we are lacking.
    Fortunately it seems from some of his quotes today, that that is something he is planning to do (buying a midfielder) so hopefully these aren’t just endless promises that don’t come to fruition.
    It’d certainly be a step in the right direction, although personally I don’t see us ever really reaching the heights of Bayern or our former selves, for the foreseeable mainly because I have no faith in our board and our clubs penny pinching ways.

    • @tonymontanna4united: You are so right. Adding to the squad is all well and good, but Utd really must address the problem areas first. Fergie was an undoubtedly great manager but there were times when he seemed to be blinkered. Over the last couple of seasons I had the feeling that it was more important not to lose rather than risk playing some of the young players, especially in games against much lesser opposition.
      Anyway, new manager new era. Moyes has said he wants to give youth a chance and he’s prepared to spend on worthwhile players. Let’s hope he walks his talk.

    • @tonymontanna4united: Fantastic rant Tony. Loved it. About Bayern. They remind me of the New York Yankees when George Steinbrenner was alive. Always turning a profit but always going after the best players and with the biggest payroll. How could you turn a profit and still put the best team possible on the field? You don’t lose the money to debt and to the owners greedy pockets. Now flash forward to the present. George Steinbrenner is dead and his sons run the show. Well you might as well call them Glazer’s because the club has lowered it’s payroll, they never by the really big name free agents anymore, and they are counting on a farm system that is nowhere close to the best in baseball. All this while attendance is going down as well because the product on the field isn’t worth watching. While George was in charge the Yankees won their division or were in the playoffs 15 straight years. Since he relinquished his hold,they missed the playoffs once and look to do so this year again.

      Bayern spent their profits on producing the best product on the filed and giving their fans the best stadium and atmosphere possible. After that After that 2010 final I was crying for them to go after players. My number one target for both Bayern and United was Manuel Neuer. No surprise that Bayern got him. Last year you may be surprised to know that the player I wanted them to after most was Xherdan Shaqiri. I watched him play in the EURO under 21′s and was blown away with his skills and speed. So this summer comes upon us and who did they already sign? The player I coveted the most in world football, Mario Goerze. What can I say other than they seem to be sympatico with my thinking. As a fan that feels special.

      Of course I cannot say the same thing for United as they have not signed a player I coveted since back when they signed RVN. I wasn’t aware of players like Ronaldo and Vidic, so kudos to them for those picks. In general they rarely sign players I like. Man how much I wanted Moura, Sneijder, Neuer, Falcao and Thiago. They continually disappoint. Bayern, Madrid and Barca do their business but they also have their ears to the ground and the pulse of their supporters. They answer to them whereas United is just a corporate monster stealing from us all and then telling us to go fuck ourselves. Other than pay for the tv package I get to watch EPL games I refuse to buy a single licensed product from Man Utd. It’s my mini form of rebellion as well as choosing to be a member of MUST. I wished more of us would wake the hell up and get a clue before it’s too late. :roll:

      • tonymontanna4united

        @Grognard: Yeah I remember you rating Shaqiri mate, and your right he was fantastic that tournament.
        I also remember myself mentioning, perhaps rather ironically, martinez as a player we should really be looking at too, who likewise also ended up where again….. :wink:
        Seriously you gotta commend Bayern. Their business the last 3 years has been outstanding but as Colver mentioned above, a fair share of their signings haven’t exactly been big money world class, which makes it all the more impressive.
        I wonder if we followed Bayern’s blueprint, whether even if the likes of Thiago, Gundogan, Vidal and Modric were to be unattainable (which they probably would be), we’d probably still end up with a couple of class players who in the near future could reach that level and would be happy to play for us.
        That tbh is what has really massively pissed me off with our transfer business the last few years. That even if the likes of Modric, Ozil, Schweinsteiger, Sneijder etc couldn’t be had, there’s no reason why we couldn’t have cast our net further afield, maybe gone for a younger player, or a 2nd tier player, given them time and let them grow whilst still giving game time to the likes of scholes, giggs, fletcher as you know Fergie would.
        I mean the likes of Vidal, Khediera, Sahin, martinez (back in 2011), Moutinho, Dembele off the top of my head, whilst not being world class or tier 1 players, would still be a mighty improvement on what weve got and left us in much better shape than the mess we currently find ourselves in.
        I cant tell you the sadness I feel, when I read back to comments Gundogan made in 2011 before joining Dortmund, where he described us as his dream club, and the one he would love to make a move to in the near future. Fucking heart breaking to think what could have been with him eh :cry:

      • @Grognard: I also remember you being eager for us to sign Ashley Young. How did that work out?

    • The_Philosopher

      @tonymontanna4united: Very well written Tony. Great rant.

      Evra isn’t the best left back in the world. Thank you for saying that. But he is great to have around in the dressing room as a motivator. He has a great attitude. But on the pitch he isn’t always on top of his game. Leighton Baines would be an excellent deputy.

      The loss of Pogba is still one of Sir Alex’s glaring failures in dealing with our midfield situation.

      I really hope Januzaj and Powell will be given a chance this season.

  • If you look at the players they signed none of them can truly be considered Tier 1. They did benefit from their own equivalent of Fergie’s fledglings and their intelligent approach to signing players going for realistic targets in positions that needed improving and certainly a clear out helps. Now they are reaping the rewards with greatly improved pulling power snatching away Gotze and next season Lewandowski they really will be the perfect team.

    We can learn from them.

    Stop going for players that are bound to join Real Madrid or Barcelona or one of the money rich clubs. Instead improve our scouting and be prepared to take a gamble on a player from a lesser league stepping up to the plate.

    Forget signing world class players and instead replace the average and unmotivated players in our squad with good players who are hungry and capable of stepping up to the plate. Simply doing that our entire squad will be vastly better.

    We also need to lose the England bias. The truth is that England has a total talent drought and most English players at the moment suck. We need to gamble on players at the smaller German clubs, the big Portuguese clubs, the smaller Spanish clubs, and the smaller Italian clubs. If we cast our net wide enough and stop going for the obvious wonderkids that Real and Barcelona are all over we should be able to sign some good players and most of them should work out OK.

    With that in mind I’d like us to sell Rooney Anderson and Nani and with the £50 million and our £20 million transfer budget splash out on four good players in the £15-£20 million range with the idea that if three of them turn out to be good and the other flops we are ahead

  • What an astonishingly concise and accurate precis of where we are in the football world; as opposed to where we ought to be.
    Nice one Kevan

    • @Paul Nunan:
      Additional ,
      when was the last time (for the doubters) that a signing made you whoop – RVP last year was a great signing but it was on the cards for a month so he was practically our player before he left. Mine was TEVEZ ……. however that worked out he was the last genuinely world class player we signed – not a prospect , not potentially – a straight off the peg world class player.
      How many of those do you think we are going to get in the next two years ? :twisted:

  • Grog, To support two clubs is to support neither,end of. United until I Die.

    • @Stephen: What a ridiculous comments. It is a big world out there. Not just many leagues but different nations. How often have Bayern Munich and Man Utd played each other in the past 40 years (non friendlies)? Probably less than 6 times. They usually play in different worlds so why the hell can I not support a different team in a different league that rarely overlaps? Sorry mate but that is a ridiculous comment. I am not born or raised in Manchester. If I was I might understand the territorial bias more. I belong to the football world. I also am my own man and choose to support whomever I choose. I am Canadian of Greek heritage and my favorite club are Manchester United, Bayern Munich and Germany. Unlike you I respect your choice to support Man United alone. Now what about passing on the same respect and courtesy to me mate. This is football, not bloody politics or war. Get some perspective will you. Take a look outside your glass bubble once in a while.

      • I can rarely think of someone who supports 2 teams, both of course very good ones, but, and I’m assuming here, never sees eithier.

    • Finally a person with sense.

  • Seriously never seen so many plastic supporters. I came over from ROM to see what they were all talking about. Now I can see it’s just on big moan after another featuring a daily wish list of players and why didn’t we get him!
    I get enough piss take for having a Season ticket and living in Stockport let alone supporting 2 teams in Munich and Manchester. It’s ridiculous.
    We have no divine right to the best players or to trophies. We’ve been crap before and if it wasn’t for FFP we’d be crap again.
    Rarely do big name players come to the Premiership. If I was coming to these shores from hot climates I wouldn’t even consider Manchester or the Premiership – Why would you?
    Look at our best players over the years. We’ve always spent a lot of money but rarely on big name tabloid sensations. Just accept it and give Moyes a chance. There’s something called stability that we’ve had our club for many years and there’s nothing wrong with continuing that rather than appointing a new manager every year.
    That so many of you seem to want Jose sums it up. A mercenary manager moving from club to club and yet you wonder why players do the same?!You complain about Moyes football but want Jose? That also makes little sense in terms of purist football.
    With regard to current transfer talk stop believing the daily crap that is written by the media. The media write to sell stories.
    If you wish to judge Moyes on his transfer dealings judge him at the end of the transfer window, not before. Remember the wish list of players that you want will not be the same as his and accept it.
    With regard to Bayern lets not pretend they have any great transfer methods. As the top team in Germany they’ve always cherry picked fro the other teams within their league and supplementing them with imports.
    Of the team that started the CL final over 60% of the players were taken from one of Bayerns other teams or from within the Bundesliga. They are again taking from their major rivals in the case of Goetze and it appears next year in Lewandowski in a way that we couldn’t take from City or Chelsea. A constant method of destablishing opponents.
    It is almost impossible for Bayern to fail. A team challenges so we’ll take their best players. How is that anything but ruthless business? It’s not down to great scouting!
    Don’t forget they’ve also made a lot of transfer mistakes.
    They would struggle like we do to attract players if other teams get in the way.
    Re the glazers there’s sweet fa you can do about it. I’d suggest giving up your Season ticket but I’m guessing that’s not relevant.

    • @Adaboy: Finally a calm head.
      Great rant about the rantings – and honestly what is most of it about, anyway?

      -Moyes, who’s been on the job for less than 2 weeks. :roll:

      -Failure to sign a player we never even bid on, in the first place. :roll:

      -Losing the first friendly even though there was some good work by a couple of the youngsters. :roll:

      Just a bunch of nattering old women who have violent twitches in their knees.

      • @redrich – Was sure my little rant would be hated by all! Seriously I’ve seen Moyes given crap for going on holiday, for not signing every player in the World, for not buying players we haven’t bid on etc etc
        Thank God we don’t all judge managers and players so quickly.
        Always good to win games but City lost as well :D and it’s just the first step on the fitness ladder. Yep, I hope, and assume looking at the squad, the nippers will continue to get an opportunity to impress – They’ve earnt it.
        Honestly the way the majority of the people lap up the medias daily transfer bollox is staggering.

    • I got half way through that and had to stop mate. If the club weren’t shouting it from the rooftops about how we’re the greatest sports brand in the world and if I hadn’t once heard that “it’s the pound in everyone’s pocket we’re after” I’d probably think you have a point. Fact is though, United masquerade as the biggest club in the world and shovel it down our throats yet when it comes to bringing the best FOOTBALL players in they act like anything but.

      • @ian
        Appreciate the effort ;)
        What do you expect the club to do – Say we aren’t a great brand?! Football is a business and the Glazers run it as such.
        We have rarely bought the best footballers to the club and have always claimed to be a big, Worldwide brand,
        This chap suggests that Bayern are the transfer model to follow. They largely just bring in players from their own league and supplement with a few imports. There’s no magic secret. They just cherry pick the tried and trusted players from their league.

        • You originally mentioned being there in the lean years, I’m presuming you mean the 70s and 80s. If that’s the case I don’t ever recall anyone from MUFC using the words Brand or Global during those years I spent loving supporting the club despite its lack of success.

          I hate the way the club has gone over the years but now they’re the self proclaimed global marketing supremo’s I agree with the writer that they should act like it in the transfer window, but they can’t/don’t.

          Btw, I don’t mean spend 100mil on a player I just mean target realistic players and go get them quietly and quickly.

      • @ian
        Sorry not used to these so hence replies all over the place!
        80s mate.
        I agree but the Glazers run us purely as a business.The deal with the devil has been signed and there is sweet fa we can do about it other than stop going.
        This particular transfer window is of particular interest as Moyes recognises the need to strengthen cm. As said cricitise at the end of the window, not the start.
        City and Chelsea haven’t exactly been ripping up trees on the transfer front.

        • This was also written in 2011 by Robbie Re Thiago.

          A bid for the spanish midfielders that are are playing under 21 might be a good idea. Wed get discipline and very technical football in, thiago alcantara at barca is never gonna break through with what’s in front of him, xavi, busquests, iniesta. And martinez aint to bad either

          This site has an intelligent following who don’t just say what people want to hear for sake of criticism or worse still a mouthful off other visitors.

        • Ha yeah it’s not easy until you’re used to it.

          Deal with devil signed exactly, so no going back, that bred a need for success which manifests itself as a ‘divine right’ amongst fans.

          Decisions made by the club has brought this on itself.

      • @ian.
        FFP makes it practically impossible to drop out of the top 4.
        Look at the trends of the PL and the CL over the last decade in particular. FFP makes that cycle of the same teams appearing time and time again concrete.
        Re Thiago – I take your point but my point remains that the majority would not have suggested him. Likewise many would have wanted Wesley S, Silva etc etc Who a manager wants and who the fans want are 2 different things.
        Re your comment on the followers. I have no doubt there are intelligent followers as there are for all clubs. All I’ve seen are articles supplied by someone who supports both Bayern and Utd and is seemingly above criticism. Football is about opinions. Mine is different. Criticise Moyes at the end of the transfer window, not the start.

    • @Adaboy: Well go back to ROM with all the other happy clappy MUTV subscribing numpties. “United is da bestest! Everything is perfect! Cleverley is better than Thiago! Moyes will win everything just like Fergie did! Yay!” :roll:

      • @The Truth
        What a mature response ;) When you all follow someone who supports both Bayern and Utd but attends no matches I think you can put yourself firmly in the Sky generation of supporters.
        Those of us that have grown up with Utd pre Sky, attended Season after Season do not see it as a divine right to be the best.
        As it happens I don’t frequent ROM as I prefer to discuss with other match goers but thought I’d try it in the close Season.
        Thiago, as a transfer target, sums you lot up. I can guarantee that if I went back even 2 months on this website his name wouldn’t have even been mentioned. It sure wasn’t on everyones lips at OT.
        One word from the Sun has you all wetting your pants without thinking the media often link us with everybody, like they do City in particular now, to then offer a “snub” story thereafter, guaranteeing comments galore.
        As said though the fact that you lot slag off Moyes’ style of football but then embrace Jose is laughable.
        Apologies for having an opinion different from the sheep but being raised in the North of England tends to give you some balls :-)

      • @The truth

        “Don’t worry, we will.”

        Exactly – Because he won’t have bought your wishlist of players.

        “Patronising” Suggest you look at your initial reply.

      • @The Truth:
        Really – He won’t have signed any of the players by the end of the transfer window?
        Care for a little wager?

    • tonymontanna4united

      @Adaboy: Tbh, most of this negativity is directed more towards Fergie and the way weve done business in the transfer market in recent years, rather than anything Moyes has done.
      I cant speak for everyone but tbh I’ve been encouraged that Moyes has atleast responded to the midfield issue head on, and seems he plans to address it this summer.
      This is a step in the right direction, and I agree he deserves til atleast the end of the window before we comment.
      The many names weve missed out on, many of them hardly stellar, who were clearly an upgrade to the likes of Giggs, Fletcher, Anderson and co has probably made a lot of us paranoid, and made us question the direction the club seems to be going in.
      But as you say its a new man and a new era, and I for one am willing to atleast give the guy a chance and see what he can do.

      As for thiago, well hes hardly come out of nowhere has he. Hes played probably close to 100 games for them, and hasn’t looked out of place in many if any of them. If he wasn’t being mentioned all too often in recent months it probably has something to do with the fact that most of us thought his chances of leaving were very low, because none of us had any idea of his release clause, which was only made public recently.
      Without that, you were probably talking about having to fork over the best part of £40m+ for him, which needless to say pretty much ruled us out.
      Its disappointing to lose him, but there are still plenty of other fish in the sea, some of them excellent players in their own right.
      Hopefully were targeting them.

      • @tonymontanna4united
        I get that but then that’s been a relatively consistent theme with SAF, like any manager, through the years. More and mores in modern times because we all have access to the crap sprouted by the internet.
        If we roll back the years then I dread to think the response to a Dwight or Andy C on here.
        We all complain abut the cm but then SAF did spend money there and it just hasn’t worked, for various reasons at the top level. The youth side didn’t work either with Pogba and Ravel. These are the probs that Moyes has inherited, but he appears to recognise it needs sorting, so I’m saying give him time to resolve them.
        He’s been working 2 weeks not 2 years!
        That link that Ian supplied is of interest where Moscow refers to Thiago. Reading the comments and no one takes any notice of what is written about Thiago as people concentrate on the players they wish for. At that point Wesley S seemed a popular choice.
        My belief is that we will bring in at least another couple of players and so we should wait and see.

        • @Adaboy: I fully expect us to bring in a couple more players. Players we don’t need at positions where we are already deep like at CB. We never seem to address the need for central midfield and LB and we still do not have that star player who makes things happen by managing the tempo and directing passes like Scholes. And who knows how long it will be before that need is finally addressed.

      • @tonymontanna4united: But Tony, has Moyes really responded to the need for midfielders? He went after Thiago when he and the Glazer’s were pretty sure they would not get him due to Guardiola hovering overhead. Now I am reading that United are tabling a bid for Fabregas. One would have to be daft or borderline retarded to believe that Barca would now entertain parting with another midfielder having just lost Thiago. United are doing this to save face and once again put on the facade that they are being proactive and aggressive in the market. It’s a con job. They know they have 0.000000% chance of securing Fabregas but that is exactly why they do this. It’s cost safe but makes the naive and uninitiated think that they are willing and ambitious to pend. People can argue and bitch about what I’m saying all they want, historically for me the proof is in the pudding.

        • tonymontanna4united

          @Grognard: Moyes said just on Sunday that midfield was an area we wanted to strengthen in. Now that I look, I cant actually find the bloody quotes anywhere, but im sure im not imagining them and they were real :lol:
          I don’t doubt that pursuits for the likes of Fabregas are only going to end in disappointment. If Moyes has actually targeted midfield though as a priority, then id like to think he’d be able to sign atleast one reasonably priced, enthusiastic young midfielder who wouldn’t cost the earth, and would like to come here.
          Lars Bender and Nemanja Matic are just 2, that I’ve mentioned many a time. Both, id think, we’d have a realistic chance of getting.
          I guess we’ll have to wait and see if we do target them.
          Those quotes, if they’re real which im sure I didn’t imagine, are atleast something to be positive about as you’d like to think we’ll atleast end up with someone even if its not the sort of calibre we had hoped for.

        • tonymontanna4united

          @Grognard: “I think we are trying to strengthen in a couple of areas. We are short in midfield”.

          http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8823765/Transfer-news-David-Moyes-says-Manchester-United-have-money-to-spend

          There we go. Knew I didn’t imagine it :lol:
          Its a bit more vague a comment than I remembered, but atleast he agrees and specifically mentions the midfield and us being short there. You’d like to think we’d atleast target one midfielder.

  • Yes Grog, it is madness to support one club, give me strength 8-O

  • the Silly Season is in full flow here in RR i see! Dont be led down the garden path by the former reactionaries of Fleet St. Although like many fans i would like to see our Midfield strengthened, i have been down this path before wrt possible United signings, and have ended up being disappointed come transfer day, only to find out later that United were never interested in said player. We all like to play Fantasy Football and Football Manager during the summer with our favourite club but there are always parameters outside our grasp and comprehension when the latest hot new signing chooses another club except United. I laugh out loud when some peeps blame the weather in Manchester and the rest!! Given that i was one of the mad ones who wanted Fergie sacked back in the day after his first season, i’ll reserve judgement on David Moyes for a much later day, not just a few weeks in the job. I try to ignore bs from dodgy tabloid reports who have always been largely ABU, and tend to lead us football fans astray. I always imagined a dartboard in the Suns’ Sports Editors Office with some pics of talented footballers and a hat filled full of Premiership team names. Believe it or not??

    • @Phoenix Red: Well said mate, there needs to be a balance of opinion here seeings that most have taken to an addiction to the doomsday headlines.
      Nothing to be proud about so far in the TM, but for cripes sakes, give it a few weeks why don’t you!!

      • @Redrich: We need togive Moyes time, it is hardly his fault we are whoring ourselves on the other side of the World, to sell a few shirts.
        At least he has said “we are short in midfield” which Fergie never did!

        • @Stephen: First of all, as much as Moyes was not my choice to manage, I have said on numerous occasions that we should give him a chance and I want to follow Fergie’s order to give hm a chance. My beef and the crux of my argument is with the ownership of this club. They had tied Fergie’s hands with their transfer policies and now it appears they are doing the same to Moyes. It’s not Moyes fault although I do believe that Moyes hasn’t got the pulling power of a Mourinho or Guardiola. Still, I’d love for the man to be given a chance but wouldn’t it be nice if the Glazer’s walked the walk instead of just talking the talk. So enough with skimming my articles and not reading them. I do not hate Moyes nor have I really bashed him. I am on an anti-Glazer campaign, not an anti Moyes one. I wish Dave well.

        • @Stephen: I’m all for giving Moyes time. Again for the umpteenth time, my issue is not with hi despite him not being my personal choice for manager. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE GLAZER’S

  • The_Philosopher

    You make some excellent points Grog.

    Creative and imaginative football coming from this coaching staff seems like a stretch to me. I am also concerned to tell you the truth. Why did we sign Moyes for six years? Isn’t the norm a 3 year deal?

    Jurgen Klopp is working off of a 3 year deal right now. Why 6 years? Gosh.

    Why are we playing the financial game like Liverpool, Newcastle and Southhampton. Very good question. Why are we so alergic to paying the going price, as you so eloquently put it, as if the rest of the football world has gone mad. We need to move with the times. For a world class talent you need to be prepared to pay 40 million pounds and higher.

    We act like we are affraid. Our transfers lately (other than the purchase of RVP) seem more lamb than lion. Aren’t we lions?

    • @The_Philosopher: And yet I have to believe that Moyes is capable of changing his tactical and strategic philosophies given the squad he has. Problem is his squad needs improvement.

    • @The_Philosopher: And today PSG paid a king’s ransom for Cavani. That just made the price for top world class strikers sky rocket. Good luck getting anyone of the caliber of a Lewandowski now. I guess they better keep Rooney. :roll:

  • 200% true. Mate, Since 2008, this has been my rant. I have however suffered big with some mentally imprisoned Manchester United Fans thinking that we are playing good football because we are winning the Premiership against weak and disorganized Opposition. for the last 6 years, Manchester united has managed to win the premiership because the potential threats like Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, and Liver pool have all been either very weak, lost focus, changed managers like clothings or lacked ambition. That’s even why the Galzers became confirtable not to buy good players because they then shifted Man utd’s birth Right to become Big in Europe and set their goals of only dominating weak opposition in England to appease the Fans. They then tactically embarked on a global bland image marketing to try to convince the World that United is still as Big as people think.
    Truth be told, our football standards on the pitch have greatly deteriorated since the Glazers took over. We have a weak and too much average squad comparable to Totenham and Everton. Even SAF knew that but because he never wanted to tangle with his Bosses, he tried to compassate for lack of squad improvement with his Tactical alertness. He wouls try to atleast win some trophies with a very average squad in the name of mantaining Confidence in his players and a longivity sense at United. United is Nolonger the United we all know. I personally have been supporting this club for the last 22 years. It is no longer the United we know. Glazers, i hate.

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