Jan 14
United Aim to Stop League Skid against Cahill-Less Bolton
It’s rare that expectations are low for Manchester United, but after the back-to-back disappointments against Blackburn and Newcastle, United were the clear underdogs heading into last weekend’s FA Cup showdown at City. But as has happened time and time and time and time again, United delivered when the chips were down, and while the 3-2 triumph doesn’t make everything better in an instant, it served as yet another reminder that it’s never a wise idea to write off Manchester United.
However, that win, as sweet as it was, won’t matter if United can’t build off of it, and today, United host local rivals Bolton looking to snap the league losing skid.
TEAM ANALYSIS
Bolton Wanderers
1. This is Bolton’s 11th straight season in the Premier League, but they look to face a real fight to make it a dozen. Owen Coyle’s side has spent most of the season at the lower end of the table, and they currently sit 18th, one point behind fellow strugglers Wolves and QPR.
Bolton started the season with a 4-0 win at QPR, but they proceeded to go 2-0-14 in their next 16 matches. Their play has started to pick up as of late, however, as they’re 2-1-1 in their last four matches.
But today’s match marks the start of a tough three-match stretch, as they follow up today’s trip to Old Trafford with home matches against Liverpool and Arsenal. Fortunately for them, after a trip to City in early March, they have only one more game against the current top six for the rest of the season (a home match against Spurs on 14 April), which could be helpful for their survival hopes.
2. For what it’s worth, Bolton have been better away from the Reebok thus far this season. While they’re 1-1-8 at home, they’re a 4-0-6 in away matches, and they come into today’s match with wins in their last two away matches in the league.
3. Bolton sit 10th in the league in goals scored with 25, with seven of those strikes coming from Ivan Klasnic. Kevin Davies has been a consistent performer for Bolton over the last several seasons, but he’s struggled to find the net this season, as he has only two goals in 18 league appearances. Speaking of Davies, he’s likely not too fondly thought of in these parts, as he
4. Statistically, Bolton are at the bottom of the league defensively, as they’re tied with Blackburn for most goals allowed with 43. On the season, they’ve posted only two clean sheets, one in the season-opening win at QPR and the other in their only home win of the season, a 5-0 win over Stoke City in October.
They’ve allowed multiple goals only once in their last four league matches (a 2-0 home defeat to Newcastle on Boxing Day), but they’ll face United without their best defender and prized asset, Gary Cahill, who’s on the verge of completing a £7m move to Chelsea.
Manchester United
1. United haven’t lost back-to-back home matches in the Premier League since 2001, when Chelsea came into Old Trafford and won 3-0 on 30 November and West Ham followed that up by downing United 1-0 a week later. Those consecutive home defeats were at the back end of a run that saw United pick up only one win in seven league matches (with five of those matches coming at home).
2. United have scored 30 goals in 10 home matches this season, and they’ve scored multiple goals seven times in those 10 matches. So, scoring shouldn’t be an issue today, especially with Bolton no longer having Cahill to call upon.
However, it would be refreshing, even if it’s not necessary, to see a strong defensive performance today, as United have let in eight goals in their last three matches.
Of course, with United’s defense it’s been about ‘play whoever’s fit and can slot in at the back’ due to all of the injuries and illnesses that have wrecked United’s defensive depth this season, but Chris Smalling came back for the win at City, and Jonny Evans could be back today. If he is, then Phil Jones can move back into the center of midfield, which, as I’ve stated here and there, is his best position for now and for the future.
3. The 5-0 win at the Reebok in September took United’s unbeaten run against Bolton to eight matches, with Bolton’s last win against United being a 1-0 win in November 2007. Speaking of the number eight, United have won eight straight home league matches against Bolton, and in that run, United have outscored Bolton 21-3.
4. At this point in the season, you’d rather not be dealing with a debate about who your #1 keeper should be, but that’s the position United still find themselves in. Who’s got the edge right now? Anders Lindegaard made a rare mistake in spilling a shot that allowed Sergio Aguero to score and set up a tense, tense finish last Sunday, but he’s still the best man for the position at the moment, when it comes to command and communication, mental steadiness, and being better equipped to handle the physical requirements.
Starting Lineups
Manchester United: Lindegaard; Rafael, Evans, Ferdinand, Evra; Valencia, Carrick, Scholes, Nani; Welbeck, Rooney.
Subs: De Gea, Fabio, Pogba, Park, Giggs, Berbatov, Hernandez.
Bolton Wanderers: Bogdan; Steinsson, Knight, Wheater, Ricketts; Eagles, Muamba, Reo-Coker, Petrov; M.Davies; Ngog.
Subs: Lynch, Riley, Boyata, Pratley, Tuncay, K. Davies, Klasnic.
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Lindegaard,
Rafael Da Silva, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra,
Valencia, Carrick, Scholes, Nani,
Rooney, Welbeck.
Subs: De Gea, Berbatov, Giggs, Park, Hernandez, Fabio Da Silva, Pogba.
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@OPT Ferguson means business. Since being “signed up” Scholes has made a sub appearance and a full start. Definitely hasn’t been signed to warm the bench.
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A goal in his second match back? Not bad, not bad at all!
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Bloody hell 2 penalties, 2 misses. I said to my Bro as soon as Wazza stepped up – he will miss this. His overall game has been mega poor so far, but I hope for a better 2nd half from him
Please tell me what led to the assist for the goal because I missed it. Thanks
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@Craig Mc: he might have missed it, but by no means was it a weak penalty. in this case the keeper made the right judgement and made an excellent save. sometimes in life we should also acknowledge the other player was good.
this one wasnt wazza’s fault! he was plain unlucky.
he still got to show two assists in the game!
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@Craig Mc: and everyone misses a penalty in their life. Christiano used to miss his fair share, most famous of them was CL final of 2008. he also missed in the semis againt Barca in the same year! so 2 back to back misses from him!
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Craig who would you suggest takes our penalties?
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@colver: Anybody but Wazza the form he is in
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@colver: It’s just surprising how a club as big as United do not have a genuine penalty, free kick and corner kick taker! OR they simply do not practice it…
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Well back to winning ways! And gained a march on Tottenham.
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Should’ve been more than 3-0 and should’ve been wrapped up before it was, but some chances weren’t taken full advantage of, and Bolton’s keeper made some good stops.
Overall though, solid performance, three points, and a nice boost to the goal difference. Hopefully City will follow Spurs and drop points on Monday.
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Pogba’s been on the bench for each of the last three league matches, which is a good thing to see. I imagine Fergie’s waiting for some low or no pressure situations to put him on…I was hoping that’d happen today, but the game was still up in the air when it was time to sub out Scholesy. Soon though, soon.
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@Eddie Griffin: Even if he isn’t getting on the pitch it’s good for him to be ‘in the picture’.
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Mi man Nani was not at his best today – and FFS Lil man work on getting your corners over the 1st man – or alternate corner kicks with Vally etc
.
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Valencia is just too good..
Everyone\\\\\\\'s talking about this one! - Join the debate.... Like or Dislke:
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@Owen: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if he had a left foot he could be world player of the year.
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@Traverse: Agree. I’m actually baffled he doesn’t score more goals, he has one of the hardest shots I’ve ever seen in my life!! No need for pace either, he can just stand quietly and put his foot through the ball and I’d set fire to the net… Crowd needs to scream “SHOOOOOOOT” more often methinks!
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He’s back at his and man with the way arsenal’s defence is playing cant wait for Sunday. Must say we should have scored more but Wazza was a bit wasteful today. We’re getting there though.
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Pleasing result. Losing streak over. Onwards and upwards. Let’s make Arsenal our bitches at the Emirates again!
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A good win in the end for United. I missed the first half as usual but saw the highlights of the first half. We created a lot of chances in the first half but didn’t just put the final finish on those. It was great to see Scholesy scoring again for United. A good comeback for him to OT.
2nd half Bolton started off well and they had their moments. Antonio Valencia was brilliant for me in the 2nd half he was creating space on the right side and putting such wonderful balls in. He created a chance for Rooney which he should have scored honestly and he had 1 beautiful ball in the end which nobody attacked. I feel if Hernandez is given chances to start and Valencia is in such a crossing mood and creating space that would a deadly combination. Its quite clear that Rooney gets more goals when Valencia plays but I feel Hernandez would get a share of goals as well if Valencia is started.
Danny Welbeck is becoming a good player for us. He might even be called as a combination of Berbatov and Hernandez according to me. He sometimes reminds of Berbatov with his beautiful finish against ManCity and today he ran the channels and took the opportunity when presented to make things easier for us.
Michael Carrick puts the icing on the cake for us with a beautiful left footed finish. Amazingly his first goal at OT in around 2 years.
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Actually there was still almost 10min to play Pogba after Carrick’s goal. The game was in control to be honest and playing for 10min wouldn’t have hurt anyone.
But it was a controlled performance. Still not satisfied at all with overall tactics because games like this will make us think we’re doing the perfect thing. But can’t complain all the time, especially after Spurs drew. Hopefully City drop points during this Toure-less period
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@Jay wire: Main worry was our dull attack:
On multiple occasions, we were 6 against 4/3 bolton defenders and Vally was left with no open players — that is extremely poor from us. 6 (SIX!) players in the box versus 3 Bolton defenders and we could not muster a shot on goal in such a situation…. all ran the same pattern and ended up on the goal line.
Against better teams (where our tactic of “being faster” doesn’t work), we need to be able to take advantage of our temporal advantages to score. Also, on two occasions, Bolton could have scored, but their own ineptitude saved us.
Best players today: Vally, Carrick, Welbeck, Rafael, Evans in that order
Worst players today: Rooney (worst!), Nani, Evra in that order.
Rest were OK.
WE HAVE STILL TO STEP IT UP ANOTHER LEVEL
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Well thank God we won an easy game after messing up our last two easy games.
But the games are going to come thick and fast.
Between 22nd January and 22nd February we are playing Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool TWICE and Ajax TWICE.
I’m particularly excited about the explosive FA Cup tie and the chance to play Ajax for the first time under Fergie-a worthy opponent in a much maligned competition.
It is absolutely mouthwatering.
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@colver: I wouldn’t hold my breath. Of the ties you have mentioned, only two games are at home (Liverpool in the league, return leg against Ajax). Expect a series of cowardly football and pragmatic performances.
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@Moscow is my heaven: We’ve been better away from home than at Old Trafford this season mind you, only lost points at Stoke and Anfield!
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@RedDevilEddy: We are yet to travel to the Etihad, Stamford Bridge, White Hart Lane and the Emirates in the league so I will remain sceptical of our away form, especially considering how we did at the big venues last season!
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@Moscow is my heaven: To be fair, Stamford Bridge doesn’t strike me as a fearsome place anymore. They’ve already lost to Villa, Arsenal and Liverpool there this season, and I think today was their first clean-sheet at their own ground since early November! Anfield will be a stern test, but we got away with a point playing with a discustingly defensive team… Arsenal have always been our bitch, and we seem to have figured them out. It’s gonna be an interesting fixture, but not as fearsome as it used to be.
As for Etihad, that will be a vital game which may decide where the title ends up. White Hart Lane usually promises goals, and I’m really looking forward to that game. Spurs are playing some brilliant football this season, United at times the same, so if we can keep the momentum going that may be one of the best games this season no matter who wins! (hoping for a United win though of course!
)
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@RedDevilEddy: Try telling the Geordies that we only lost points at Stoke and L’Poo
I wouldnt bank on beating arsenal either.
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@Craig Mc: Arsenal are missing 7 players and 4 defenders… they’re thinner than Walcott and ready for a raping… even Fulham got them.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I still say we will be fortunate to beat them – and injured players suddenly have a way of accelerated healing when United come to town Opti!
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We had made all three substitutions after Welbeck went off injured for his 2-0 goal though….
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@RedDevilEddy: Supposed to be a reply to @JayWire!
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Welbeck was immense today though, this is probably the first time I’ve seen him pull the trigger on more than two occasions during a single game, AND he won us the penalty. Loving it!
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@RedDevilEddy: any word on the injury hope he is back soon. he is doing great this year and getting better.
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@gator: It’s just a twist, so should be back for the Arsenal game.
Some weeks we are going into, eh?! Looking forward to it!
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Rooney has now missed 4 of his last 7 penalties for Manchester United, is it time to consider whether someone else should step up to the spot?
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Giggsy has scored 5 penalties in a row now, and I remember Wazza saying he asked the Welshman if he wanted to take it before he converted it himself against Arsenal earlier this season. If Giggsy was playing every game I’d put him as the nailed-on candidate, but who should else do we actually have?
Carrick has missed a few, same with Nani. I’ve seen Chicharito score a few for Mexico, but he doesn’t feature as often anymore with Welbeck having taken his place. I’d like Ando and Young to take them, they seem really confident whenever they’ve stepped up in the past!
I know it may not be an issue for many people, but at United I’ve been used to seeing Cantona, Irwin, Ruud and Ronaldo take penalties with aplomb and whenever we got a penalty it was basically a certain goal! I don’t have that confidence anymore with Wazza on the spot. Arsenal have RVP, Chelsea have Lampard, even Liverpool have Gerrard who’s scored two incredibly well taken penalties in the space of a week. Penalties at this level should be a certain goal, so having someone who can convert 4 out of 5 penalties is vital. Any opinions?
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@RedDevilEddy: Nani has missed a few pens??? I thought he had only missed one???
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@Craig Mc: Missed one against Fulham and one in pre-season a while back… I remember him taking a storming penalty against Bayern in the Allianz-Tournament summer of 2009 though, and I’m not saying he isn’t a candidate but his style of kicking doesn’t seem to affect the goalkeeper much. Hard and low or high right in the corner, no dilly-dallying. Ruud scored almost EVERY single penalty of his rocked into the right hand post of the goalkeeper, I’d rather have a penalty taker with that confidence and ability.
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Welbeck should be taking the penalties after Rooney. No gimmicks.
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@Ian: Give me a break – too many people on the Welbeck wagon jump far too early imo
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@Craig Mc: Craig, no wile meant but what have you got against the lad? He is a coming United legend and I don’t see you praising him one bit, despite being our best striker this season, any spesific reason?
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@RedDevilEddy: Yeah Eddi – I don’t jump on bandwagons when some young player has scored a few goals etc. I certainly don’t start prophesying that they are future United legends. It is all the early adolation people like you Eddi dish out so easily, that makes youngsters like Welbeck haggle overcontracts when they are just only beginning some kind of career at United. Sorry he may well make it as you say, but I am not so easily persuaded. You were saying all these things Eddi as were many United fans when Andi had a good few games at start of his career with us – but he is NO legend so far mate! That is all I am saying. If Fergie caves to any Welbeck agents demands and he does become as you say a United legend then fare enough – I will start to give him the credit due the legends, but certainly not now – sorry Eddi mi man!
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I’d trust him not to showboat, I couldn’t say the same about Berbatov or Nani or even Young tbh. Personally I don’t think there’s any reason to change it, Rooney just needs to start putting his foot through it a bit more often. It’s ok side footing it, but all good regular penalty takers have variation, he doesn’t.
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@Ian: I really don’t see Welbeck as a penalty taker, for all his skill and class he doesn’t strike me as a great shooter. Agile, yes, but not powerful or accurate enough. I want Valencia to take them really, he’d give the keeper no chance! Even if the Goalie did get his hands on it, he’d end up with skid marks or a lost arm after it!
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@RedDevilEddy: Yes- but what amazes me is that Rooney thinks he should still be penalty taker
By the way just been reading about your man Welbeck in sunday people – apparently he is kicking up a storm at OT regarding signing new contract, as his agent wants well above what United are prepared to offer, and Welbeck is sticking to his guns. Says he could leave with Pogba and our other rebel ravel. Well welbeck plays a few games for 1st team and already thinks he should be cashing in big time – fook off Welbeck – I hear the Wastelanders and Chelsea are after you. I don’t give a toss if you go that’s for sure! I hate big time charlies.
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@Craig Mc: Wait… Scholes comes back (probably for FREE) and Pogba, Ravel, and Welbeck all demand more than 50K (presumably) …. as backups to the GREATEST ENGLISH FOOTBALLER OF LAST 20 YEARS….
Youth is so shortsighted.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: According to the people report Pogba and Ravels agents are asking 45 thousand a week to sign, and Welbeck wants 60,000 plus pw. City are saying they are not prepared to make offers for Pogba and Morrison, because they feel what they are asking they are not prepared to pay either, and they went on to say that taking from someone elses academy could cost a bit because of going to tribunals. Welbeck they are after because he is more promising and is not academy. They can have him as far as I am concerned, because I detest players who have done nothing of worth yet, and they figure they should be raking it in. United are not prepare to break their wage structure for any of them, and I am with United where this is concerned. When you have got small fry academy players – the tail trying to wag the dog – well FFP is coming in soon, and none of the clubs will be able to just throw their money around!
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You guys are hypocrites or am i missing sumthing here. Surely in terms of impact if united could break the bank for Phil Jones then IMO Welbeck deserves every penny that Phil Jones is getting.United is gaining quite a reputation for unfairly treating their best players. For past few seasons Vidic has clearly saved our backsides more than any other player IMO but in terms of pay where is he in the order??? There are a lot of overpaid players at united already allow the lads to take their share. These boys are no rebels they are products of our system and I diplore a system that is prepared to pay more to raid from elsewhere than properly reward its own. For the record Welbeck is as much an established premier league player as Jones and Im sure he can play in any team in the EPL. And why the hell are Fergie’s comments on the contract talks with the agents for these boys so careless.I havent heard more careless comments from responsible managers for their top prospects. Even Wenger as he lost the inevitable battles for Nasri and Fabregas still had the grace to just say we are negotiating.It is this Cavalier attitude by our manager that is costing us on the pitch. I certainly hope our collective reaction to these boys requests is not motivated by the colour of their skins. Otherwise there is a little Suarez in many of us.
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@Vida Dollar: That is the most disgusting post comments – and you are complaining about Fergie. To even suggest that COLOUR comes into the amount of pay they get. United have a wage structure and they have to keep to it – or move towards administration. We cannot afford to pay unproven youngsters TOP DOLLAR at present without having to raise the wages of all other clamouring players – it has nothing to do with colour of their skin, and I am amazed that more of the lads on this blog have let you get away with a comment like this one without commenting on it. Rimmers I think that colour post should be removed!
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This is the first I’ve seen of it Craig. Bit tricky to pay it the right amount of attention in work and on my phone. I’ll look at it asap.
Anyone else offended by the comment or feel Craig is justified to ask for it ti be deleted?
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@Craig Mc:
Ravel is linked with Arsenal (b/c he admires Henry) and Barca (because on Twitter, he stated that when playing footy he could ever only think of wearing a Barca or United jersey).
Ravel is United through-and-through! Now, repay my faith in you, little man by signing up for another 5 years!!!!!
Pogba, Welbz — do the same.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: Mate the wage structure at Arsenal is brutally rigid, and never broken, so I cannot see Morrison getting his demands met by Le Arse!
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@Craig Mc: Too many rumours going around to be honest for me to say anything, but I doubt it. I think Cleverley got a 60k contract earlier this season, Welbz probably deserves the same, but I doubt it has because a “fuzz”… Don’t see why really. English media is shit.
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@RedDevilEddy: Yeah well everybody was calling english media – but Fergie confirmed about Pogba and Morrison, and so I tend to believe about Welbeck too. I know people disbelieve media but often they are proved right, they were right about Ronnie, right about Rooney, right about Tevez and what makes you think welbeck is any different.
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@Craig Mc: They’ve also said players like Evra, Vidic, Fabio and Carrick have held the club at ransom and I don’t see that. Morrison and Pogba, even Rooney and Rio strike me as people who would go as far as trying to FORCE the club into paying over the odds, whereas people like Welbz and Cleverley don’t.
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@RedDevilEddy: Oh Eddi please, you are not comparing Welbeck with seasoned professionals like Rooney Rio Evra Carrick surely? Usually when something in the press isn’t true Fergie normally comes OUT straight away and puts it right – like he did with press saying Rooney wanting out recently. He hasn’t denied but confirmed Pogba and Morrison – and with Welbeck info only coming out yesterday we have to wait and see. A few goals can go right to someones head and they think they are ALL THAT! What’s the news from Twitter re this – I’m not a twitterer
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@Craig Mc: He is from Manchester, been at the club since he was in his diapers, and he loves the club, I really can’t see any reason for him to ruin that relationship. Ravel is an idiot and Pogba is from France, and Rooney is a scouser! By the way you’re the only one who’s mentioned anything about Welbeck starting a riff, not read it on newsnow or on Twitter or anywhere!
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@RedDevilEddy: I said that the report was in the sunday people newspaper, and on talk sport, and another United website I read tonight, can’t think of the name but it was on news now. Anyway I wait to hear what Fergie says to see if they and I are wrong!
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On Pogba and Morrison, both are already professional and their contracts expire in June. They’ll technically be free agents then and training compensation will have to be paid by the club that chooses to sign them. In England, that’s where a tribunal is called upon, but mostly as a formality. If any club wants them in June, they can go. It’s good news if City are saying their wage demands are too steep and unreasonable. It sends a message to their agents that they’re wasting time and no one will touch them on potential alone. But it’s also not proven if this rumor is a fact.
What I don’t get is what logical reason was there for both players to be sidelined. I don’t blame players for being ambitious or arrogant. After all,what do you expect an 18 year old to do when Sir Alex gets in front of a camera in the heat of the summer’s biggest transfer saga, and declares United are not in for Sneijder because we have Pogba. I’m sorry,but Sneijder is one of football’s top players and you don’t just get an 18 year old’s hopes up like that and expect zero reaction. Not only that, but as a 16 year old in France, he was considered the best talent to come out of France. All the top clubs were after him and that’s why we had to do the undesirable to get him. He already knows his potential and if we were not serious about him then we should have left him alone to find a better destiny. We waste these youngsters time, and tend to be so cowardly about progressing them into the first team, whilst the rest of football is taking chances with 17 year olds
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@Jay wire: That’s not the issue here though Jaywire, although I agree about the Pogba being used as excuse given to not buy Schneider. The issue here though is the unreasonable wage demands of agents/players who want to run before they can walk. Whoever buys these too will only be buying on possible potential which may or not materialise, no matter what was acclaimed about Pogba before he left France. Nobody knows yet if they will make it as top class professional footballers. As for the City reports, I think they are probably true, because a City insider spoke to the press and said Mancini is very unhappy that the City board will not sanction any more purchases that Mancini insists he needs to win the PL, and they say it won’t make any difference whether Tevez is sold and money gained, because they are very concerned they have to be ready for FFP. City are operating all the time at a loss, and that would have been no problem for their wealthy owner if FFP was not coming in soon. So whether Mancini will get the Tevez money is very much in the balance. So I could understand them saying that they are not prepared to give yet unproven youth 45 thousand quid wages each week – besides which they will have a queue quickly formed of their own acadamy players demanding the same wages, and it will cause a probable landslide. No I agree with Fergie that we should stick to our wage structure, and if by some miracle those lads manage to get the wages they are demanding from another club – then let them go.
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@Jay wire: Be patient, he’ll get his chances.
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http://trifter.com/europe/united-kingdom/breaking-news-manchester-city-has-been-sold/
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Agree with you Jay Wire. Using Pogba as an excuse not to sign Sneijder and letting him rot in the reserves is typical of the hypocrisy of the club in recent years. If we didn’t intend to play him this season we should have let him go on loan with the intention of fast tracking him into the first team next season.
I agree CraigMc that the wage demands are unreasonable for players who have potential and nothing else. The problem is if you take a stand and refuse to pay them what they want you lose them for nothing and then you have to splash £20 million to get a replacement who will want high wages as well.
But I think not playing our youngsters doesn’t help. Arsenal have a very rigid salary structure but are able to keep most of their youngsters happy by giving them regular games. When they do leave the club in search of higher wages Arsenal at least is able to get good money for them.
Pay them Fergie or play them. Your choice!
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@colver: Fergie won’t pay them until they prove they can cut it in United 1st team. He won’t play them while they have attitudes and are trying to get what they want by negotiating with other teams thru their agents to get their demands met. Fergie is not looking for just talent alone – he is looking at their whole lifestyle and character, behaviour etc and is finding them not acceptable at the moment. Morrison particularly and now Pogba with his rush tactics. Fergie will not be bulldozed especially by 18 year olds who think they are already big – yeah big egos which Fergie will never allow. We have plenty of kids with talent and personality who are doing it the right way. Tunnicliffe is getting rave reports at P’Boro for his all action MF performances and tackling ability, and box to box play. That is what Cleverley did – and he is well respected now and part of Fergie’s 1st team plans. Rafael and Fabio have the right character and they prove that if you are good enough and apply yourself to the team cause and Manchester United cause he will play you. He doesn’t think Pogba and Morrison are ready – maybe in the head where Morrison is concerned – but I believe for sure Fergie is right in not breaking the wage structure – because he will have great upset amongst all the other apprentices at the academy, and especially those who have done it the right way. Their agents will all be coming for mega bucks and United will not let that happen for UNPROVEN whippersnappers thus far!
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Here Here. Great post Craig, great post. (imo)
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There is something special stuff in players who played for Fergie for long period of time. I ‘d say it is pure will to win. Glad to see Paul score. I don’t want to say too much about Rooney. Big bright spot of this United team is excellent array of wide players. Twin played full game actually.
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After the first half of the season and especially with todays performance and resut ib mind, I think it’s a good time to draw your attention to comments @RedDevilEddy and@Stepehn made pre-season when we ran a poll ask ‘Who Will Be The Next United Manager?’.
The comments relate to Brendan Rodgers’ inclusion on the list. Just wondering if you think he deserves his place on there now AND.….do you think the result of the poll would be different if we ran it again now?
http://redrants.com/who-will-be-the-next-manchester-united-manager/
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@Ian: Brendan who? Swansea?? When you have no pressure on you play hap-hazard football sometimes pay off (today) and sometimes doesn’t (usually).
By similar arguments, Norwich manager should be a better candidate… table doesn’t lie.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I remember people raving about Owen Coyle but look at Bolton now. Phil Brown with Hull a couple of seasons back is another example where courageous and enterprising football came crashing down.
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@Moscow is my heaven: Ummm dont forget Ian Holloway
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@Ian:
Don’t get me wrong boys I’m not banging his drum on the back of that win today, just think that people with his philosophy will go a long way in football nowadays.
….and the chance to rib Steve and Eddy is just too good to resist!
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/7434994/Berba-set-for-Leverkusen-talks
*Sigh*
I guess this is the end of the road for Berba at United. Your time here never lived up to its potential, but I will remember that hat-trick against the scousers. Best of wishes at Leverkusen and thanks for the memories.
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Craig. My issue is not really about wage demands. I really don’t like making opinions about rumors. My issue is with them not being played. Eddy says I should be patient, but why should I? They’re ready. They’ve been ready ever since we offered them professional contracts. These days, by the time a player reaches 25, they’d have been around for a long time. Times are changing. It’s very possible that Pogba will find it difficult to get into France’s U-21 the way things are going. Or at least be considered a key player. Right now he’s in limbo. Stuck between the first team and Reserves in a place known as The Bench.
He’s hardly played 100min of football since August as his counterparts are playing week in week out in their first teams. And I should be patient. For what reason? Ferguson seems to always get away with the totally ridiculous saying “Fergie knows best”. He doesn’t. Especially of late. He is human and he is making huge mistakes. If Pogba was at Bayern Munich or Arsenal or Barca or anywhere else but United, he definitely would have been given a useful chance. I mean when is he going to get his chance? When will he be ready? And how? By playing on the bench? He’s not even good enough to play ahead of a half fit, 21 year old right back. So why keep him?
More than wages, as Colver implicated, players need to play. This has been a wasted season for these kids. They learnt nothing at all, made absolutely no progress. At least if they had gone on loan then they’d have experienced the dynamics of football. Unless the lesson for this season is how to deal with disappointment. Then they’re learning a great deal i.e they’re at the wrong club.
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@Jay wire: Pogba doesn’t seem mentally ready to perform at his best in front of 76,000. We’ll destroy him if we use him too much, too early. I think he would have played on Saturday had Welbeck not gone off injured, next time we have a comfortable lead he’ll probably get 10 or 20 minutes off the bench. It’s not “Fergie’s right”, but it’s the way he does it.
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@Jay wire: Mate you don’t like making opinions about rumours – fine, but I already established from listening to Fergie himself that Pogba and Morrisons agents are looking for money outside United pay structure that United are not willing to pay. Fergie said that out loud on MUTV so no rumour mate. We are waiting for confirmation re Welbeck. You know I agree with you about playing them for ist team experience, or sending them out on loan which is a better option for them to get more games and lots more football experience. They have to agree to loans though have you thought of that. Some of them refuse if they don’t want to be away from home!
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It appears to me that Rooney seems to prefer partnering Hernandez to Welbeck. The lad had to graft tirelessly to get some decent service and most of Rooney’s passes were never completed.
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Morrison has come out and said he hasn’t rejected a United contract offer,which makes me wonder what the hell is going on at United, part of believes him knowing how fergie bends the truth to suit the club, are we just forcing him out?
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Even without Sneijder we have these weasels asking for more money before settling themselves in. Evans – for all his criticism is a full fledged international & he was paid peanuts for all the time and effort he had given on the field.
This is probably ONE of the biggest reason of not signing Sneijder. Should we have agreed on a 250,000 a week salary. Imagine the issues that would have cropped up. Rio, Vida, Pat, Nani would all be asking for a pay rise themselves.
Players need to know… They play for Manchester United for the club and not for the money. Which is why maybe Scholes came back. He’s probably playing for a nominal fee. Rooney isn’t exactly the BEST example for the young players in our squad. If Pogba and Morisson wants money, they can go away for all I care.
We do not need a Tevez situation in the club, no matter how good they are. We are not aiming for 1 season of success and 20 years of administration.
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I don’t know what is this all saga about young prospect’s wage. United is top class football club which compete with very best players.
If they want to make a bit more money then they should go to Arsenal I guess. I don’t think these guys having right mind set as a United players.
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Giving in to Rooney’s wage demands created a horrible precedent.
We clearly haven’t changed our wage structure. Otherwise we would have signed Sneijder. Because our claim that his wage demands were in the way makes no sense when he was asking for less than Rooney (and quite possibly his high wage demands were influenced by his knowledge Rooney was on £250K a week). Moreover Sneijder can claim to be a better player than Rooney having placed fourth in the 2010 Ballon D’Or with Rooney nowhere to be seen in the rankings and possessing much better international pedigree.
So we have this strange anomaly of one player earning double, triple, quadruple or quintuple the amount of other squad players and everyone is supposed to be happy about it.
Rooney is one of the senior members of the squad that the younger players look up to.
So if we find our youngsters making unreasonable wage demands ask yourself who they learnt that behaviour from?
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@colver: Same place that Rooney learn’t his from HIS AGENT!
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Someone says players should know they’re playing for the club, not the money. All of us football fans are extremely hypocritical. Even more than Ferguson and that’s an achievement. These players are contracters. They’re employees. They get paid and they are taxed. They’re not doing anyone a favor or being charitable human beings. They provide a specialised service, and in this industry, billions of dollars are exchanged every year. What would you do at your work place? Your company is one of, if not the most successful in the industry in revenues and profits. You’re an upcoming, young, highly regarded apprentice and just about all the competitors are trying to steal you. But you’ve been an apprentice for nearly 3 years, even after being offered and accepting a contract. You’ve been gaining zero experience whilst other upcoming prospects have been steaming ahead. The company’s VP is being paid 10 times or more what you’re being paid and he also happens to be the least disciplined. He threatens to leave and his pay is immediately doubled. Time is definitely running out and you need the experience. If it was me, I’d do one of the following:
1. Hand in my resignation letter
2. Ask for a better deal because it seems the only way they’ll pay attention.
If they let me go, maybe I’ll get an actual job elsewhere. I bet 90% here would do the same. Agents are not the problem. The problem is every human being has an inherent desire to get more. Even Ferguson. He is one of the most paid ppl in football, so what is he talking about? He also is after money just like the person reading this. I’ve never seen a more hypocritical person in football. Even exposing the kids to the media. Yeah right,we’re not playing them because we’re protecting them from pressure. It’s much safer to speak to the noble guys from the media and possibly make up stories about how they’re greedy individuals,influenced by diabolical agents. Perhaps the ppl from The Sun will offer their world renowned counsellors to help these boys. I can’t stand the things Ferguson gets away with. All in the name of being a legend. He’s not all-white, people. And in this case, it’s 100% his wrong.
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Yeah I think it is a bit unfair to paint footballers as only caring about money. If that were true City would be top of the world. But in reality they were only able to get discontented squad players and even when they did buy first teamers from clubs such as Arsenal they had to double or even triple their salaries.
Footballers want to play for successful clubs knowing that long term it is the best way to get rich.
However if our players face an uncertain future at the club they are more likely to pursue short term objectives such as maximizing theire current salary.
We have a history of carting out youngsters from the club such as Rossi, Pique, Gibson, Richardson and so on.
If our youngsters are on the pitch playing they do not face this uncertainty. They are getting games and the future is in their hands. If they play well they will see their salaries rise.
If they are on the bench they have no opportunity to prove they are worth more so their salaries are flat. Because they don’t see any prospect of breaking through they are more inclined to be tempted by big money offers from other clubs promising them more games.
Our policy of waiting till their early twenties to give them games is not viable in the 21st century. Either pay them whatever it takes to keep them happy while they wait their turn or play them.
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I have another theory. Pogba and Morrison are not good enough. They were used by Ferguson as deterrent to buy world class midfielders in the summer. We are broke. Fergie says we are not, therefore he is lying.
Morrison has come out and said what Fergie said about contract negotiation is untrue. Who to believe?
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@Moscow is my heaven: Well, you can’t entirely blame SAF. Nobody airs their dirty laundry in public.
and returning Scholes to the field is the biggest indication we’re broke? I think we definitely are. Don’t forget the $ spent on Jones, Young, DDG, Lindegaard
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@Moscow is my heaven: Im not so sure mate, pogba and in particular morrison, are definitely good enough in my humble opinion, to be getting some decent game time ahead of the likes of anderson (had enough time/chances), giggs (still offers something in certain games but is being way overused) and scholes (his return has been overplayed to the max, still shows touches of brilliance but then im sure cantona or sir bobby would too if they got their boots on).
Half our midfield then, along with fletcher out and they still aint getting games
So why is this? Well to be honest i think its more to do with fergie really than anything else. He just doesnt like taking the chances anymore. And at 70 years old, i suppose thats only natural really at a time when traditionally you mellow out and take less risks.
Its all safety this and safety that with him these days which is probably half the reason why our football for much of the last 3 odd years, has for the most part, been rather mediocre and totally un manchester united like.
All result first, performance later. Alot more chelsea like really, which was something we used to criticise them for back in the day.
Still the results keep coming, so thats enough, right? Why take any risks for the sake of entertaining football when your winning eh.
Why splash the cash and try to take on barca, when its a lost cause. No one else is going to take them on for the next few years, so as long as we keep winning the domestic cups and pans, its all good right.
Why take the risk throwing in an 18 year old kid who might make a costly mistake that costs us points, when you can just bring on giggs, park or scholes to do a job.
I mean lets not under estimate the mighty aldershot and actually give the kids a platform to show their talent, lets just go with park again, i mean he might show us qualities we havent seen before in his 7 year spell here
Now without doubt, their haggling over new contracts leaves me a bit miffed if im honest, and doesnt improve their situation or chances of getting any game time in the coming weeks and months, but then i suppose when your being bigged up as the next scholes, giggs, and cant even get a game at aldershot, your bound to start having doubts on your mind.
Maybe if we’d have given them 5/6 games earlier on in the season, they’d of had no reason to dig their heels in and be unreasonable. They’d be getting game time afterall, so an increase on their wages by a few quid a week, and the promise of more games in the 2nd half of the season, and i reckon they’d of signed their contracts in a shot.
As it goes, right now its just all a whole great big ruddy mess. Apparently theyre both now wanting something like £50k a week, pogba’s agent is sounding out every top club in the world for a summer transfer and theyre both now as good as off.
Its sad stuff really. I think people have been quite right to slate them if they really are demanding such extortionate wages, but then i dont think the club can just pin all the blame on them either.
If we’d shown a bit of faith in them and given them more than 10 minutes, we might of avoided all this shite, so with fergie being the man in control here, ultimately a large portion of the blame has to come down to him. Its as simple as that.
Some people though will just see this as a fergie bashing post, completely overlooking what i feel are some rather valid points. Ah well.
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Colver. I have to say, you speak a lotta sense generally. I mean it doesn’t even pay to be loyal in football. Look at Berbatov. Being as professional as can be, but there’s no justice there. Even the fans don’t like him. No one will forgive him for costing so much. Ferguson for one reason or the other, is desperately trying to sell him to get some money back. Clearly it’s all about the money. So only a fool will make decisions in football, without prioritizing money and career development. Just like any other industry.
Moscow. Your theory could explain things. For me, it’s either they’re not good enough, they’re being sabotaged or more likely Ferguson screwing up. But them not being good enough is very unlikely. I’ve watched a bit of Pogba and have to say, I’m thoroughly impressed. But my sole opinion means nothing. A considerable number are really impressed as well. Interest from elsewhere is not being afforded to the likes of Petrucci,Fryers,W Keane. It’s just Pogba and Morrison. At the very least, from any angle u look from,both players are way better options in midfield, than Rafael. Possibly even Park. No one can ever convince me otherwise. Park-Rafael in midfield is a milestone in the history of technical screw ups. I’m not even going further with this one. Point is, whilst still a theory, it is the least probable in my opinion.
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@Jay wire: Agree. I have said for a while now, when its a player weve spent £10/15m quid on, were not afraid at all to just throw them in. Why then is that in such contrast to the way we deal with our own youngsters? Why is it necessary for every young lad to go down the whole “loan route” regardless of their talent.
I mean, without doubt, that route worked wonders for clevs and welbeck, but then theyre about the only 2 players weve brought through since fletch and john boy, so its not exactly worked wonders for us either.
As matt busby once said, if theyre good enough, theyre old enough. If were to believe that park, gibson and rafael are better than any one of pogba, morrison or the like then we may as well just do away with the academy.
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@Jay wire: They must not be good enough. Either that, or Fergie hasn’t been taking his pills.
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What if Fergie never spent the Ronaldo money because he’s keeping it to try and buy him back eventually? Just a thought.
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@Traverse: Rooney >>>>>>>>>> Ronaldo!
We don’t need him
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Like I said, just a thought.
On a day when Martin Samuel reveals Ronaldo, Mendes and Gill were spotted together in London before Christmas.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2088036/Crisitano-Ronaldo-Manchester-United-makes-sense–Martin-Samuel.html
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@Traverse: Even if we were to dream, and this was actually genuine and real wanted to sell, would we have the £150m+ they’d likely demand? Hell, even if they were to offer him back to us, for the price we sold him, does anyone genuinelly believe the glazers would actually sanction an £80m bid for him.
Would be interesting to see actually. Ronaldo is probably the only player fergie would be willing to splash that kind of dough for, so if, as expected, the glazers said no to such a deal, might make for an interesting exchange, and might see fergie let up a little on his glazer support. Wonder what the outcome would be there.
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@Traverse: this has been my thought forever. especially as fergi has put his 3 season notice in. and morinho the likely successor… morinho lets ronny go on the cheap and gets him back in 2 more seasons when he comes back to england. he should let a few more of his players contracts run out
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Interesting twitter chat today. Michael Vaughan tweeted PNev, GNev and Rio asking how good Ravel Morrison is.
Rio has tweeted saying ‘He’s got huge potential. Have told him what I think of him and what he needs to do to fulfil it’* followed by ‘I love to see young lads come through the youth system. Would be a big waste if it all goes tits up, got some good ones coming through though.’
*grammar corrected
Very interesting. You’d have thought Rio would be the perfect role model for him, being a kid from a similar background who got in various scrapes who applied himself and made the mega money.
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Ha ha all this talk about pay increases and Fergie has got himself a 60% pay increase which seems generous given he just cost the Glazers £20 million or so by failing to qualify for Champions League
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@colver: Reward for keeping his mouth shut about Glazernomics. Coward.
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