Dec 13
United blow chance to close gap
Before the Villa game, Chelsea had just drawn 3-3. There was all the motivation for the side to cut their lead from three to zero; separated on goal difference. The anticipation was also high among our lot; after all, we just beat sides by handsome margins with a joke of a defence. Surely the confidence was so high that we might have as well stuck in gardeners and the kitman at the centre of defence and yet manage to squeeze something out of the match.
Funny story: Saturday didn’t quite go to plan.
But while our defence, as stretched as it was (Vidic was just returning from his bout of flu) was to blame for their goal, it was the complete lack of cutting threat — actually anything — going forward that did us in.
It started with the obvious: Ferguson inexplicably going with a 4-5-1 formation at home. What was that all about? This is Villa. No disrespect to their status or their form in the league, but at home, given our record against their largely unchanged squad, we ought to have been a bit more positive. And to play like we had bags of lead attached to our feet was hard to understand. Moreso, when you have the chance to pair Rooney with Owen, a striker fresh off a red-hot display at Wolfsburg, you grab that chance with all the hands you have at your disposal — even the imaginary ones. Strikers like Owen deserve to be given the chance when they are on a roll. You don’t drop him from the starting line up immediately. It sounds a lot like rotating the side for the sake of it — which should never be the idea.
Despite all the talk about our lack of creativity and cutting edge, this season, we were capable of much better than the fare that was served up on Saturday.
Rooney started brightly only to frustrate for great parts of the game. There were also moments of desperation from him when he tried to do too much. Oh, and there was that dive! I’m not in the practice of getting on the backs of our players excessively, but I find the relative silence in the mainstream media on his dive astonishing. English star players like Rooney and that hypocrite, Gerrard, get away with a lot, I must say from the mainstream press. [This is not a rant on Rooney, although it feels like crap when one of your own players dive, but more on the double standards of the media -- near hysterical reaction -- when a foreign player dives.]
Also, I have to ask now: why Park yesterday? Why? I saw little point in him, and while he does very well for us as a defensive winger / wing back, Park as a winger is as useful as a blunt pencil for precision diamond-cutting.
Giggs, meanwhile, was having one of his off days. It can happen; he’s 36 years old. Can’t blame him necessarily as we can’t be expected to be reliant on him every week. Someone else needs to get that hint.
I won’t say who.
The manager later went off on one about time keeping to be taken off the refs’ hands: good idea, but we could have had all day yesterday, and still huffed and puffed. However, I’d like to agree with the other thing SAF said; that it was a bad day at the office. Having played our way through a horror injury crisis and still scored for fun over the past few weeks, I’d like to give him that benefit of doubt. Although I’m still in disbelief over our tactics.
4-5-1 at Old Trafford? Why oh why? Or as the kids, and most adults like to say these days: WTF?!
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- Gamba Osaka v Man Utd: Match Thread
- Newcastle 1-5 Man Utd: Newcastle Taken To The Cleaners At Home
- Derby Day. Raging Ferg. Welbeck.
- Diouf, Guardiola and Post-Boxing Day
Tags: Match Reports
December 13th, 2009 at 13:30
Maybe some good news to come out of this most irritating of weekends.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/635697/pound1BILLION-CHINESE-TAKEAWAY-AT-MANCHESTER-UNITED.html
Chinese consortium of 6 billionaires. 2 of them massive United fans who have already been to OT this season. For the love of god I hope this happens. People in charge who actually have their own money.
December 13th, 2009 at 13:46
@Traverse: I brought that up yesterday but I’m dubious about shady consortiums. We’re seeing the mess Portsmouth and Notts County are, where no one even knew who was taking over their clubs.
I’d still say be careful what you wish for. And don’t let your hatred for the Glazers blind you towards possibly a worse set of owners.
I’m not saying they’re bad, but I will reserve my judgement untill I see evidence of decent track record from the backers.
December 13th, 2009 at 13:50
Cheers RR, if i hadnt watched the match twice, your review describes the events brilliantly, had me spurting out my coffee as i read
“Funny story:Saturday didn’t quite go to plan” YE THINK!
How ever Traverse’s link looks like there may be some light, cheers m8
December 13th, 2009 at 14:00
It just did not work did it. And how would it? When our best player was having his most ineffective second half performance ever. I watched that second half almost amazed at just how poor a 48 mins(should have been 49 if your SAF) wayne was having. Nothing worked for the lad, through balls to owen and berba he’d usually put in not only with pin point accuracy but the kind the man could do in his sleep! His corners or crosses dint clear the first man most of the time and it was no surprise to me when those surge of attacks usually witnessed at Old Trafford post the 80 minute mark never came! It was a performance that was really limp in the end. Yes credit to villa, but if anyone watched the game closely, a lot of fans still had that glimmer of hope, a part of me was quietly confident we’d ‘atleast’ see an equaliser, such was the performance. It was neither here nor there. But we never shifted gears last night and that doesn’t happen often. It was just one of those nights.
Those wondering why Fergie brought owen on for giggsy might have a point. But i can understand what his thinking was for such a move. I dont think giggs was having a great game. There was a lack of sharpness in his play, the kind we have gotten used to drooling over most of this season. And he probably noticed the few gaps in the villa defence that valencia failed to make most of at times (how good would he be if he had a left foot?) and thought someone like owen could exploit. Unfortunately like most of his peers on the day, there was no spark from the mid week hat trick hero. I thought the fresh legs of obertan would have added an added dimension to our attack. Their full backs were hardly tested and i thought the frenchman could have found some joy down the flanks. But in the end we ended up with three strikers off colour and midfielders out of ideas.
Brad Friedel is known to be a tormentor for us, always managing to pull stunning saves against our boys over the years, but i wonder if hes ever had such a quiet time at OT. Funnily though, i cant remember too many keepers having much to do in recent times, only shay given’s performance comes to mind. I personally dint think Villa were great, they were there for the taking last night. But we never played to our strengths, we were understandably jittery at the back, too many mistakes in midfield and lack of support for rooney. I dont know why but Valencia seemed off the pace last night. There were a couple of occassions where i thought he should have been steaming towards the far post to support wayne, but it wasnt to be. It was just one of those nights.
I’ve barely ever watched United ever losing an opportunity to close the gap over the team ahead of them, its usually like this inbuilt mechanism that just kicks in after a team a few points ahead drops points. Just like how we rarely lose a game after goin ahead, or lose two games in a row, its very Un-united like to not make the most of such a scenario.its barely the end of the world though. This season has turned out to be more about which team ‘wins’ more points rather than ‘drops’ them. Chelsea havent won a game in four! So they really arent as unbeatable as the pundits, having creamed their pants in praise, made out to be. Yes its an opportunity lost, yes United do seem to lack that bite..that X-factor..that ruthlessness at times if you like.But you still need balls to bet against united making it four in a row. I do think theres vast scope for improvement even squadwise, areas do need strenghtening. While january moves are highly unlikely, this team needs players stepping up from within. Its time for Berba to show his class, its time for anderson to step up his confidence and authority on the field, its time for the ol’ Vida to be back! Anyone who has watched united over the years would know that despite recent scorelines, we have been a shade unconvincing. Understandably so, as we have been THE best team in Europe in recent years and without a certain portuguese-hair gelled-twinkle toed-winker, we’ve become ‘one of the best’. We have to get used to that for a while until we unearth our next star, but till then we have got to hope that nights like last night, was simply ‘one of those nights’.
December 13th, 2009 at 14:07
Player ratings and thoughts:
Kuszcak – 7.5 – Nothing he could really do on the goal, and saved our bacon a few minutes later. Some good holding onto shots too. I can’t believe it, but starting to look the part.
Fletcher – 5.5 – He gets points for trying, but he’s not a right back. His positioning and awareness is awful, but what was more dissapointing was how rubbish his crosses were when he got forward. He’s probably played close to 40 matches on the right side of midfield in his time with us, and can’t deliver a ball. Not good enough.
Vida – 7.5 – Dominating and strong. Looking back to his best.
Brown – 4.0 – At fault for the goal, and pretty much gave the ball away everytime he tried to pass the ball. His ability on the ball is woeful for a professional, experienced footballer. Sooner Rio’s back the better. Or Evans.
Evra – 7.0 – Did what Pat does, kept the left side of Villa’s attack quiet, and got forward. Was far more dangerous than…
Park – 1.0 – I’m sure he’s a nice fella. I’m sure he’s very dedicated in training and brings in some shirts. But my lord he’s not good enough for us. Getting in good positions is only helpful if you have the ability to do something when you get there. Didn’t even track back that well.
Anderson – 6.0 – His game breaks down a bit when playing against 10 defenders, because he constantly tries throughballs. Not awful, but not great.
Carrick – 6.5 – Little bit better than Ando, did a good job of controlling play. I mean, we did have about 80% of the ball in the second half. Could have scored on another day towards the end.
Valencia – 5.5 – Worst game for United so far. Did a lot of things right, but for f*cks sake shoot when you’re in the box, don’t keep going wide. Especially when you can’t manage to cross the ball.
Giggs – 3.0 – As always, a dire first half, but this time we didn’t even get his second half masterclass. Offered nothing.
Rooney – 6.0 – Was wasteful but far and away our best player in the first half. The dive was awful. And towards the end his mind went a bit and kept choosing the wrong option. Still, when he’s that isolated for 90 minutes, I can understand it.
Owen – 2.0 – Did he touch the ball?
Berbatov – 6.0 – Created our 3 best chances in the second half. What does he have to do to start a match, at home?
Gibson – 5.0 – Nothing he could really do, but was wasteful. Just because he’s scored some goals doesn’t mean he should shoot everytime he gets the ball. But he’ll learn.
Fergie – 2.0 – 451 with Giggs and Park at home. Not good enough, not creative enough and we got what we deserved.
December 13th, 2009 at 14:09
As an aside, our corners and free kicks were not the least bit threatening. My new theory is that Tosic has something in his contract that means we don’t have to pay some fees if he doesn’t play in the league a certain number of times before January. Because a left footed option, on the left, who can deliver set pieces consistently HAS TO BE BETTER THAN PARK.
December 13th, 2009 at 14:44
Giggs made his name playing on the left, so why fuck around with that?
Park needs to get his arse in a westbrom shirt.
4-5-1 at home….
Rooney up front on HIS OWN?!
I’m gonna forget yesterday happened.
December 13th, 2009 at 14:51
We were aweful and if we were still playing the game now we still would be losing 1-0. Come on Fergie 451 at home with Rooneyon his own is asking for problems. I seem to rememberhim saying that this is a fantastic squad, sorry boss but its not. We don’t frighten teams anymore and we simply don’t have a clue when a team like Villa takes the lead and says to us break us down if you can.
If we are to win the Prem League this season he has to spend big in Jan. A striker, a creative midfield player and a defender will do. Got to give Tosic a chance on the left because Park can’t do it.
December 13th, 2009 at 14:55
@Red Ranter: With that reasoning we could never be sold to anyone, because it could be worse. It could also be alot better.
I’d rather be possibly mismanaged by people with plenty of money to spend than definitely mismanaged by people with none.
December 13th, 2009 at 15:04
@Traverse: You didn’t understand what I said: I said I wouldn’t get too excited just because someone’s fronted £1b upfront without a plan and with no idea of their sustainability. I’d wait to hear their background before even jumping for joy. I want to know who the owners are, what their track record is before having an opinion on them.
So I didn’t imply we couldn’t be sold to anyone.
December 13th, 2009 at 15:31
Well it’s being reported as a Billion of their own money. Not a borrowed Billion. So that alone would be a step up from our current position.
December 13th, 2009 at 15:39
@Traverse: yeah because servicing that debt is draining the clubs funds, and simply improving lending institutions profits.And not helping us move forward,Any one for a Chinkie?
December 13th, 2009 at 16:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNAkX_rkkAs
December 13th, 2009 at 17:33
@Footy4Eddy: brilliant video m8, well done, if only we could display that style and flair in real life, but we must keep trusting
December 13th, 2009 at 17:36
@Scotjimland: Believe
December 13th, 2009 at 17:56
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/football/633436/WHO-IS-THE-FASTEST-FOOTBALLER-IN-THE-WORLD.html
Rooney at Four!!!
THat means he must work on his acceleration, rather than his top pace!
Ryan Giggs is a saint.
December 13th, 2009 at 17:59
I honestly hope that those rumors are true. If we get new owners…(what 6 billionaires?)then we at least would have money to spend without the lingering debts.
I think Ive seen enough of Aston Villa to say that I want Martin O’Neal to take over from Fergie. He has something that fergie doesnt have these days and thats…balls. Which team has ever played 3 wingers and 2 strikers at Old trafford. I think if they didnt shut shop in the 2nd half they would have scored more. I think he would clean out the parks and play proper players and end this stupid rotation policy
December 13th, 2009 at 18:14
@pjch: Funny thing was we looked better in the first half – playing the 4-5-1!!
December 13th, 2009 at 18:57
@Traverse: A step up financially, but stability is also a very huge issue.
If these investors are solid characters with long term goals, then all well and good. But if they are only looking to turn a profit in the short-term, it could well put our future in a fog.
December 13th, 2009 at 18:59
Scouse dogs lay down to put Arsenal back in the race!!
December 13th, 2009 at 19:01
@pjch: If we played with SOME URGENCY apart from the last 10 minutes of games, we might get somewhere. Unfortunately like you say – I think SAF has actually become anti football with his cautionary and PATIENCE mouse approach to the game these days. This is very sad, seeing as SAF was so all out for daring, flamboyant, football. I believe it is his obsession with getting one more CL trophy before he retires that has brought the kind of shit called football we play at OT these days!
December 13th, 2009 at 19:03
@Will: I wouldn’t if I was you Will, because you can be sure yesterday is going to keep on happening!
December 13th, 2009 at 19:09
@CraigMc: I think SAF can see that it makes a difference to us with the extra man in MF. It really is a damning admittance that we don’t have a solid enough group of MF’ers to even compete against the likes of Villa.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:13
@ArnabDG: I must have BALLS then mate, because I bet against United making it 4 in a row. I also have doubts we will beat LEEDS in the FA cup at OT and MAN PITY in the semis of league cup. Depending on who we get in the CL next round, I wouldn’t bet against us losing that one either. We are playing crap mate, and OT is becoming something of a bounty ground for the Besiktas, CSKA’s, fortunate against the Germans at OT too, and were lucky in the league against Sunderland, Man Pity, Arsenal. Yeah things are not exactly inspiring these days mate!
December 13th, 2009 at 19:15
@Redrich: I know mate, and Sunderland of all people were a couple of minutes away from beating us at OT. Like I said, doesn’t exactly fill the fans with expectation does it?
December 13th, 2009 at 19:18
@Redrich: Oh and I meant to say Rich, even with 5 in midfield WE CAN’T BREAK DOWN parked bus defences, and everyone knows it. I’d say time for a rethink, if I didn’t know how stubborn SAF is in persevering with the present ODD fucking type of football.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:21
@Taehr: You have got to be joking! That was a strong display of defending by Villa but that is all it was. It was a cowardly display right from the beginning. Their goal came out of nothing as we were completely controlling the game. Do I want us to be mired in those kind of tactics when we go on the road? I don’t think so. Besides, before yesterday O’Neill never had a clue on how to beat us as he was Fergie’s bitch for years. O’Neill is a good manager, no doubt about it, but he doesn’t have the IT FACTOR. Anybody who is going to take over United has to have a lot more intangibles than just being a good manager. Moyes, O’Neill, Redknapp, Hughes are all good managers but they fall short when it comes to managing the most popular team in the world. I have numerous people I would consider but for me, there is only one man who can take over a legacy like Fergie’s and not have us sliding back due to the shock, and thats Jose Mourinho. He has the IT FACTOR in spades and is a proven winner. We may not play United style football under him but then again, we aren’t playing that now either. At least we will win and maintain our position on top of the perch. I wouldn’t hand a club like this to a lunch bucket manager like O’Neill. No way in Hell.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:21
@CraigMc: Well that bit is due to fact that we need a new striker as well, mate!
December 13th, 2009 at 19:22
@CraigMc: We have lost only one more league game than Chelsea, we are second in the league, topped our Champions league group in the semis of the league cup I think under Fergie we have been spoilt somewhat and we have spend about £30m net in under the Glaziers, that is our main issue no money.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:23
@CraigMc: Just in case you haven’t gone over to the last the thread, I replied to you about our current style of play and depressing ways. Here it is again.
I know how you feel mate. I would be as sick as Hell if I lived in Manchester and was a frequent member of the Salford Reds or sitting anywhere in OT for that matter. Yesterday I got into it with Traverse over my negativity, yet again. It amazes me how many do not get or understand my position. You at least have come around to seeing things like I have been pointing them out for over a year. Remember, this style of football did not start this season. It’s been building up since our we played Barca in the semi’s two seasons ago. The difference is we always had Ronaldo to lift our spirits and bring some life to games that Fergie had tactically thrown in the gutter.
We all can waste time coming up for reasons why we are failing in certain areas but regardless of the results, the fact is that watching United play these days isn’t the positive and pleasing experience it used to be. I feel sorry for the fans who go to OT to watch the club play. The corporate mentality has robbed them of so much and as for the Salford End, well, that is just a symptom of the bully’s of political correctness denouncing specific rights by hard core fans to celebrate in their traditional manner because it either offended the rich ticket holders or because they felt intimidated by them. In the process they have killed the spirit and the atmosphere that used to be a 12th man for United on game day.
So what is to be done about all this blandness and incredibly ordinary agricultural football? I’m just watching Arsenal beating Liverpool and I am thankful we are not in the sorry state of affairs that the Scousers are in, but then are we headed in that direction but only at a slower pace due to the experience and brilliance of our manager to get the very most out of a rag tag bunch of players who collectively are pretty good but who are rather ordinary as singular entities. I watch a player like Arshavin and notice his cracker of a goal today and come to the realization that we don’t have that kind of player. A match winner and a world class midfielder who can take the game by the scruff of the neck and make it his. I see the ordinary elements we offer at GK, RB, AMF, LW and RW and I say, that simply we are just not good enough to cal ourselves elite anymore. Yet, we are three points behind the leaders and in the second round of the CL as a top seed. What are we to make of it?
The bottom line is that despite our negative style of play, our tactics, and Fergie’s rotation system and square peg in a round hole philosophy, we seem to get way more out of team than Rafa gets out of Liverpool or that Wenger is presently getting out of Arsenal. Again I think this speaks well of our overall depth and not the quality of our starting eleven. When we ask something out of our starting eleven in a big match, they have been found wanting. When the club quietly fights it’s way into a position to regain top spot what do we do? We blow that opportunity by losing to an inferior Villa side at home. Is it lack of quality or lack of killer instinct? I think it is a bit of both.
Fergie says he has 60 million to spend but cannot find value? Utter bollocks! More like we cannot find value in what he is doing and what he is professing. He hasn’t got 60 million to spend, not even close. What he has is a work ethic and a pride in supporting his employer no matter what by lying to our faces. Ask yourself this one question mate. If you were 69 years of age and on the last turn of an epic race that is your career, would you not spend 60 million of somebody else’s money to secure your team’s chances of winning major hardware before you retire? I know I would and I seriously doubt there is an individual out there that wouldn’t. So why say you have the money and not spend it? To further lie to us and take us for fools who will buy into anything the Boss says out of faith and trust. Well I love Fergie but I do not trust him and my faith in him is receding by the day. It’s time he woke up to the reality that exists. That he is presently managing a good side of lunch bucket 9 to 5?ers who work their ass off and have their moments but who are lacking that touch of class and individual brilliance than separates them from the Barcelona’s, Real Madrid’s, and even Chelsea’s. This club needs an injection of world class talent and they need it now. Fergie can lie all he wants and be forever in denial but he is flat WRONG, and deep down he knows it. What this club needs is a touch of class, like when Cantona showed up. Until then, consider ourselves mired in the mud.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:27
@Redrich: Where we are also hurting is that we have no presence from RB and that we have no wingers who can go at a defender, turn him inside and out and fool him completely. We have Obertan but he is still just learning. Nani has the skill but for whatever inexplicable reason, isn’t showing it and never plays at full speed anymore. Valencia is good but I’m sorry, not good enough and don’t even get me started on Park. Our wide players are not doing a good enough job of stretching defenses and then their service into the box is not only predictable, but completely useless. Sure we could use an attacking central midfielder, but what we need more than anything is presence on the wings and a striker with an aerial presence and tendency to make the box his domain.
December 13th, 2009 at 19:52
@Grognard: Ashley Young
December 13th, 2009 at 19:54
Liverpool will never walk alone…
Everybody will follow them and laugh at them when they go into the Championship
December 13th, 2009 at 19:58
@Grognard: Absolutely agree mate. The only one that is making headway along the flanks is Evra! – and this with Nani, Valencia, Park, Obertan, Tosic, Giggs all able to play that position.
But the thing that grieves me more than anything is the abysmal performances of our front men.
Chance after chance are wasted, and it’s not even close – their efforts are just third rate and don’t belong at OT.
If I see Rooney try to chip the keeper again, when a powerful shot or a layoff to someone in a better position would be better options, I’ll be looking for a new Plasma the next day.
December 13th, 2009 at 20:02
Berba-Alan Shearer interview… link
December 13th, 2009 at 20:05
Anyone else feel fergie missed a trick by not going after Arshavin? he would have been the closest alternative to our former greasy haired wide player? Seeing him smash that ball past the Kop made my day….
December 13th, 2009 at 20:10
@Redrich: Somebody who is far more prolific than Rooney you mean don’t you mate
December 13th, 2009 at 20:13
GK: Manuel Neuer
RB: Micah Richards
CB: Nemanja Vidic
CB: Georgio Chiellini
LB: Patrice Evra
RW: Cristiano Ronaldo
CDM: Michael Essien
CAM: Yoann Gourcuff
LW: Andrei Arshavin
CF: Wayne Rooney
St: Fernando Torres
My dream team.
December 13th, 2009 at 20:13
@Grognard: But that could be Grog because Rooney and Berba etc are never in the box where they should be, and thats often why our wingers keep playing back to MFers.
December 13th, 2009 at 20:15
@Grognard: Yeah I read your post Grog and answered it in that thread
December 13th, 2009 at 20:15
@CraigMc: I think I’ve spelled that out!!
December 13th, 2009 at 20:25
@Vivek: In a word, YES!!
December 13th, 2009 at 20:43
@Grognard: No Mourinho would be here 3 years max, I cant stand all his whining and shit plus his teams are even worse than fergies. Look at inter, theres a pile of shit and we truly outclassed them last year. I see a young fergie in O’neal, Villa were just 3rd yesterday and thats an accomplishment. Theyve beaten 3 out of the top 4
December 13th, 2009 at 20:50
Where is the 18 year old Rooney? He was a perfect footballer
December 13th, 2009 at 21:06
@Grognard: can you give us your take as a United Fan in Canada/ North America clearly with more knowledge of what the Glaziers are up too,EG there current financial status. What is the word on the streets so to speak.
No much wonder we have only 30 million to spend in improving the playing squad, its costing us 60 million a year to service the loans.
I agree whole heartedly with you regards Jose, my only fear is he tends to go to clubs who have potential but are not currently performing, Eg POOL/ SHITTY
December 13th, 2009 at 21:12
Why 451? Really no one has a single reason why Sir Fergie (the Legend) decided to go with 451 against Villa at home? Hint: The reason for 451 was the same as the reason for having Park on the field. Villa had a very easy mission against us. Run against Fletcher with Ashley Young. Fletcher was outpaced and fergie knew it – but was there another option at right back? Our defense was our weakest link in this game and if we had played aggressive 442 (or 433) how do you know that we would not have been destroyed on the counter?
The tactics worked because, while we gave up one goal, we had enough chances (rooney, berbatov, valencia) to at least draw the game. Our players played poorly yesterday and that is why we did not win. Fergie got it right. We created enough chances. Rooney was just not good enough.
December 13th, 2009 at 21:26
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I totally agree with you m8 regards Youngs speed one on one with Fletcher, but ffs, why put PARK on the PITCH, honestly think i could have done a better job or the tea ladies, or groundsman.
And yes we did have an off day, but we cant afford to keep squandering good chances in front of goal, cos we aint making bucket loads of them.
Personally i think SAF, in hindsight and thats a easy thing, underestimated Villa, and called the cavalary too late.
December 13th, 2009 at 21:28
@[OPTI]Madschester United: We played 4-4-2 and then 4-3-3 in the second half and it didn’t look as good as the 4-5-1.
So I agree with you, tactics were not the issue – it was poor performances by all and sundry.
December 13th, 2009 at 21:28
We won last week against Wolfsburg with our reserves and shut out good West Ham and Tottenham sides. After these games you were all warm and fuzzy and I think two red-ranters got married on this blog… then, came a loss against a good Villa side and suddenly, the United we all love become pathetic, Fergie goes senile and loses his balls, and we need to spend 1,000,000,000,000,000 pounds on a new team to remain competitive?
Where is you perspective?
We are three points behind an aging chelsea side (that is about to lose Drogba, Essien, Kalou, and Obi to the AFC) come January. Arsenal are on their last legs with injuries. We have had our defense/GK decimated all season with injuries. We have had (again) the hardest early schedule of any top team so far. Liverpool and City are proving that they are just pretenders (again) this season.
Manchester United can only improve this season and when players come back from injuries (Hargo, Ferdinand, Evans, Nevill/Rafael/Oshea/Fabio) we will be hard to ignore.
This discussion is just like last year… sub chelsea for liverpool.
Claim: Utd to win the title!
December 13th, 2009 at 21:40
Neuer to UTD… rumors intensify!
December 13th, 2009 at 21:40
@[OPTI]Madschester United:
thats why i love this blog” i think two red ranters got married” fucking brilliant 
I have printed that off, just to get your claim recorded for me, although i think its gonna be tougher than we think, we blow a great chance that was gifted to us.I am not a doom merchant m8, I trust in what i see, and what i see right now is not the real deal.
I know this hypothetical, but our squad is weak in comparison to Chelski/Spuds/ shitty, just we have a more experienced manager.
If anything was too happen( heavens forbid) to Wayne, we would be royally fucked.
December 13th, 2009 at 21:44
@[OPTI]Madschester United: cheers m8 post 50, that will put a huge smile on Grognards face, and it does to me, cos Foster just aint cutting the mustard
December 13th, 2009 at 21:52
@Scotjimland: Thank Eddy for the w(eddy)ng activities!
December 13th, 2009 at 21:56
@[OPTI]Madschester United: ha ha ha, I knew what you meant
i saw it also and as normal, being a happy scot, laughed
December 13th, 2009 at 22:02
GIGGS : Sports Personality of the Year 2009!
December 13th, 2009 at 22:05
@Traverse: and much deserved too, am I right in thinking thats the first time for him m8?
December 13th, 2009 at 22:05
Well done Sir Ryan x Living legend, fucking love that man!
December 13th, 2009 at 22:08
Nite Nite lads, off to the pub for some Fanny! wish me luck, fucking need it , Luck that is!
IF you aint UNITED yer lost
December 13th, 2009 at 22:10
Giggsy just won ‘BBC Sports Personality Of The Year’ !! Fully deserved; brilliant career, exemplary professionalism, superb talent and a wonderful personality. Congrats Giggsy!!
December 13th, 2009 at 22:12
Well done Sir Ryan Giggs, throughly deserved!
December 13th, 2009 at 22:17
Madchester Im not sure I share your optimism. We’ve got this far because Rooney has been uncharacteristically prolific. Once Rooney goes on one of his goalscoring droughts where are the goals going to come from? Id like to think Michael Owen could be our saviour but as any England fan will know, he is not to be relied upon when it matters. Berbatov still is unable to cement his place in the team.
Chelsea will definitely splash out this January and will replace the players that are off to Africa
December 13th, 2009 at 22:21
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Oooh, I think I’ll bookmark this comment!
December 13th, 2009 at 22:21
Well done Giggsy !!!
Well, thats our silverware in the cabinet for this season.
Just make sure you are around next year too.
December 13th, 2009 at 22:30
Someone tell me why I watched this movie of horrors. I had made up my mind about watching games live,but I just couldn’t keep away. I mean I had just watched the Chelsea game and the commentators kept yelling of how the “title race” had been “blown wide open”. And they were saying “folks we’ve got Manchester United vs Aston Villa immediately after this,in what could be the milestone match of the season. Stay tuned folks,because after that we have the Spanish 3 way bullfight on Supersport 3 and 7 in what could also be a turning of events in La Liga’s championship race.” It had “BIG WEKEEND” written all over. We had just come from a brave performance away in Germany with Owen scoring 3. I remember saying he should simply start the next game ahead of one of Rooney or Berbatov. What a glorious opportunity this was and I should have known better. United are specialists in blowing opportunities spectacularly. Extreme rubbish in it’s magnificent highest form.
I missed the first half and apparently it was the better of the absymal game. Just my luck. Where should I begin? The biggest culprits perhaps and once again Sir Alex and his team of clueless coaching staff aka Mr Phelan. First of all,what type of drinks did those men take prior to selecting the team formation and tactics? Who in their right mind would play cautiously against a team you have beaten like only 11 times out of the past 13 meetings with the other results being long forgotten draws. And the last time we had been beaten at home by this team was way back in the stone age. So it was logical to SAF to play a 4-5-1 at home in front of just a miserly 70 bloody thousand home support. I mean to be fair to him,they are well known for being the most quiet bunch in England. But c’mon,they are probably just busy preoccupied with exactly how they are gonna pay their kids’ tuition and rent etc after being made to fork out half their salaries for a season ticket. Now they must not have have had a thrill from those drinks and had to go for more and were clearly under the influence of some serious Caribbean weed to put Park in the first team ahead of the impressive Obertan and the million times better Nani and the Rupert the bear. The Teletubbies had a better shout.
After these culprits we had Rooney. I have never seen such dreadful a performance from Wayne Rooney in my life. Never. How hard is it to pass a football from yourself to the other guy dressed like you who is nearest? Surely that can’t be the hardest part in football. And why in the world is he allowed anywhere near our freekicks and corner kicks? Is that not more demanding technically than passing to a teammate 5 yards away from you? I couldn’t believe my eyes. But he wasn’t alone in this dept. Could someone please inform Vidic and Carrick about the height of Wayne Rooney. They could also let them know,that if he is playing alone upfront against two centre backs,logic and probability show us that he has very little to ,more accurately,no chance at all of getting a ball in the air ahead of aforementioned defenders. Is it just me or is it one of those obvious “duh” type of things? And speaking of Carrick,does he actually know that when you are a goal behind and desperately in need of,not one,but a minimum 2 goals in a potential title decider at home,it would be best to get a move on and not sleepwalk around the park? Especially if there is only 4 and a half minutes left in the game. He should go to Los Angeles Hollywood if he wants to audition for a Michael Bay,stunt sequence in his trademark slow-mo filming. Anderson. Wow. Houdini would be most proud of him after that disappearing act. Maybe he,unlike the rest of the world,took Hollow Man too seriously. It would be best not to talk about Park to avoid opening old wounds and the horrors associated with them. Is Evra the only man in our team who is being remunerated for playing for us,because he surely looks the only one serious about his job?
Having said all this,( a favourite of RedRanter)the biggest blame should be laid on the feet of Fergie and his coaching staff. About a week ago I was suggesting Ole as an assistant manager and the subsequent re-assignment(I don’t support retrenchment) of all our coaching staff. I also explained that SAF knows very little when it comes to the technical side of football. Someone educated me after this statement,by listing down all of the trophies won by our manager over his long tenure with us, mostly in the technically void EPL. “The most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard” the guy said. I don’t try to trivialise his achievements at all. Far from it. I honestly believe he could win the Champions League with the British Women’s Olympic team,with his unmatched management skills and prowess. He just doesn’t understand tactics and the only thing we need,clearly,is someone who does,to complement him. This is the only thing missing. Technical direction.
December 13th, 2009 at 22:47
@Footy4Eddy: Good player but way overpriced. Many guys in Europe as good for half the price. Milos Krasic for one.
December 13th, 2009 at 22:48
@Footy4Eddy: And yet we cannot seem to be able to beat them. You have no idea how that plays on my mind.
December 13th, 2009 at 22:55
@Redrich: I see your point but once again I will come to their defense and say this. All front men need plenty of service. A good striker needs three decent chances to pot a goal. Berba had two yesterday and should have scored both. But realistically, he should be getting four or five chances a game. As must Rooney. Strikers get rusty unless they get chance after chance. It’s asking a lot of a striker to score on the one chance he has on goal. Our midfielders and fullbacks are not getting them the ball in advantageous positions. They might not be ideal in comparison to the Torres’ and Villa’s of the world but I still think they are pretty decent when given the opportunities and above all, when we are playing a tactical system that frees them up more. Our wingers and midfielders have no imagination whatsoever.
If you get a chance watch the Bayern 5-1 win over Hertha yesterday. Their third goal was a master class in creativity and breaking down the wall and was made by two world class passes back to back by Lahm and then Schweinsteiger that gave Olic an open goal to shoot for. Lahm then did another great penetration job for their fifth goal. We have nobody like that. Evra has all of Lahms skills except when it comes to that final ball be it pass, cross or shot. And none of our midfielders other than perhaps Giggsy and a more adventurous and younger Scholes could make the imaginative passes that broke down Hertha yesterday as all they did was park the bus all game. We are too pedestrian and far too predictable.
December 13th, 2009 at 22:57
@Vivek: I’ve been crying about Arshavin for two years mate. One of the great mistakes of Fergie’s tenure as manager. Arshavin is everything we don’t have and so desperately need. What a cracker he scored today. Destroyed Merseyside.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:03
@Footy4Eddy: Based on player I would like to get, and not former players or players that are impossible to get like Ronaldo and Messi
GK Manuel Neuer/Rene Adler
RB Philip Lahm
CB Per Mertesacker
CB Nemanja Vidic
LB Skinned Sausage (I still kind of like the little guy)
RM Milos Krasic
CM Darren Fletcher/Owen Hargreaves
CM Yoann Gourcuff
LM Andre Arshavin
ST Klass Jan Huntelaar (I’m still a believer)
ST Sergio Aguero
And for my fantasy team I would insert Ronaldo, Riquleme and Ballack if life was like Middle Earth.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:14
@Grognard: Like I keep saying – Poor MF and Poor Strikers.
We have two issue and we won’t look any better until both have been addressed.
It reminds of the guy that when driving down the highway, noticed that his car was overheating. He went to pull over and noticed that he had a hard time stopping. He scratched his head trying to figure our how these two problems could be connected, and when he eventually replaced his leaky radiator he was amazed that he still couldn’t stop his car effectively. He was convinced that because the two happened simultaneously, fixing one would fix the other also.
Of course one had absolutely nothing to do with the other, and until he fixed both issues, independently, his car would not get back to normal.
This is our problem in trying to identify what ails our team. It simply is not just one problem that needs to be fixed, is it??
December 13th, 2009 at 23:21
@Grognard: I think the Bayern game was against Bochum. I have it to record on Tuesday – I’ll let you know what I think.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:22
@CraigMc: That’s more a case of coaching and not the players fault. Berba had no problem being in the box at Leverkusen or Spurs. It’s the role that Fergie has him playing that is killing that part of his game. And Rooney has always been forced to do more than he should. He seems to have no problem being Johnny on the Spot and living in the box for Senior Capello. This all falls on Fergie mate. In one way we cannot knock his tactics because with this group of misfits he is getting the most out of them. But he is not playing attacking enterprising and entertaining football because he realizes he hasn’t got the talent to play that way. So as much as we can criticize him, the fact remains that we are still winning because the man is managing us properly based on what we possess. I’m sure if he had a younger Giggs and Scholes with a Beckham and Keane things would be a lot different. But instead we have two oldies, an Anderson and Park to bring our game down. All considered, Fergie is doing wonders with the club. I honestly thought we would be more like Liverpool this season. At times we look like that but unlike Liverpool, even when we suck, we more often than not seem to get a positive result.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:27
@Taehr: If we had nothing but UK based players I would take Moyes or O’Neill. Neither does shit in Europe or understands how to manage foreign players well. We are Man Utd, a target for foreign players and therefore we need a manager who is internationally respected and more worldly with a successful record in Europe. You can say what you want about Mourinho but everywhere he goes, they win. Chelsea were absolutely fearsome when he was there and the players loved him and worked their asses off for him. Nuff said. Last time I saw, Inter were in first and they won last year two despite not having the deep pockets of some of the Spanish sides.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:43
@Grognard: Unless they are PROLIFIC strikers Grog of the highest order, and then they get ONE opportunity and ONE goal.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:43
@Scotjimland: Ah mate I have gone into this so many times in the past, but OK, I’ll give you the info from here as I know it. For years the Glazer’s have owned the Tampa Bay Buccaneers football team in the NFL. A team with a fairly new stadium and a team that always drew good support but has the LOWEST payroll in the NFL. A team that has never had a star player playing a skill position (QB, RB, WR) Since the glazer’s have bought the team built a team that actually won a Super Bowl on hard nosed defense. The stars on defense became well known names and demanded more money and what did the Glazer’s do? They traded them to other teams for nothing just to get rid of their money demands. From a successful team when they took over to the worst team in the NFL in a few years due to the Glazer’s unwillingness to spend money on the team.
Now about the Glazer’s finances. Wheelers and dealers is what they have always been. They got hooked on many shady and risky deals on Wall Street and took a severe hit having lost a third of their wealth when the meltdown in the market happened. Add to that the fact they were victims of Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi Scheme and they are absolutely reeling as they have been ripped open financially. They have been forced to liquidate many of their assets to pay off debts and the debt that is currently hanging over them when it comes to UNited is in serious jeopardy despite the fact that United makes a very good profit every year. Where does all that money go? Well we know it doesn’t go to player development other than salaries. The banks are only being paid the bare minimum despite the fact that United are making considerably more money but it is not really showing up on the field. I am pretty sure it’s being secured in a Swiss bank account as a slush fund for the glazer family if they end up losing everything in America and are eventually forced to sell United.
The Glazer’s are rats and weasels. They are sucking this club dry while allowing the team to slide towards mediocrity by the hour. Their willing partner in all this is Sir Alex Ferguson who shows just how naive and stupid he is in areas of money and investment because he has no clue as to what these sheisters are up to.
They are waiting to find that rich investor who will not only buy the team but take over the 600 million plus debt that is hanging over the team like an albatross. They are only on the rack for one third of that money so they are personally not that worried considering how much they are taking from the team every day they own the club. Frankly mate, they are just using the club to pay of their debts and to secure a slush fund in a secure bank where the IRS cannot get to. And for those who don’t agree with me, I accuse you all of being economically naive to the nth degree. I worked many years in big business and I know how the game is played. United was always nothing more than a tax write-off in the first place. Nows it’s become the gift that keeps on giving for them. To be honest, unless the banks pressure them more to pay off the debt, they would be better served to not sell the team and to let the team continue to make their Swiss bank account greater by the day. They are total scumbags.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:46
@[OPTI]Madschester United: when was the last time you saw a club come to OT and play with courage and attack attack attack? 4-2-2 would have put more pressure on Villa and would have forced them to concentrate fully on defense thus neutralizing the presence of Ashley Young on the left side because they would be parking the bus and using the parking break as well. The best defense is offense, it’s not a cautious approach. We literally gave Villa a get out of jail card and they took it. Two strikers invading their box would have forced them to be ultra cautious.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:51
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I’ll call you on this one when the season is over mate. I actually agree with you to a point but what I do not agree with all the sugar and syrup is that you are ignoring the fact that this club has problems and issues and these can only get worse. Sure players coming back from injuries will help but also, there is no denying that we need to upgrade several positions. Ignoring that is ignoring the inevitable. Our only real blessing this season is that thankfully our biggest competitors also suck this year. We have already lost 4 games this year and haven’t played a half season. At this pace we will lose 9 or 10 games. In most years that would land us out of the top 4. This year it could land us 2nd place. If this is satisfactory to you then you must be one of those blokes who settles for the ugly girl. I never settle. I’d rather do without than settle.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:54
My fucking God, “Love actually” is a fucking awesome movie!
And around Christmas time, not many better films to watch. Great movie!
December 13th, 2009 at 23:55
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I just had a multiple orgasm.
I find it hard to believe that all it will cost to get Neuer is 10 million pounds. I know Bayern Munich were willing to pay more and I’m sure other clubs would be willing to come close to 20 million. So I take it with a grain of salt. i have grown to hate the rumor mill.
December 13th, 2009 at 23:58
@Redrich: My sentiments exactly. We shall see who eats crow at the end.
December 14th, 2009 at 0:00
@Redrich: I’d add RB and GK to the problems with that car. Personally I’d sent to the scrap yard.
December 14th, 2009 at 0:01
@Redrich: That third goal is everything about the game that I love and we see none of it from our club. And it’s all because of the penetration and vision of Philip Lahm. Other than Neuer, he would be the number one target I would sign because Evra is being counted on for everything.
December 14th, 2009 at 0:04
@CraigMc: Not realistic mate. The greatest strikers in world history probably fire at a 40% hit rate. That means they miss 60% of the time. This is beyond outstanding. Our strikers seem to be firing at about 25% but are not getting the number of real quality chances either. A lot of half chances. I place some of the blame on them, but most of it is for the fullbacks and entire midfield.
December 14th, 2009 at 0:06
@Footy4Eddy: “Love Actually” is a real feel good film and a real guilty pleasure chick flick. Just love the chick the Prime Minister ended up with. My kind of woman and one hell of a mouth on her as well.
December 14th, 2009 at 0:11
@Grognard: I watched it with this girl I like, but I think that we`re still just friends.
Oh well, it`s Christmas time so all can happen! But truly, a great movie, especially when you watch it with a cuddly and nice girl. 
BTW, gonna train with AC Milan in late December, going over to Italy for Christmas to visit my family. Hope everything turns out great, gonna follow a special training program when I`m over there so I can stay healthy and fit while my other mates get fat on Norwegian Christmas food speciality!
*Huge grin!*
December 14th, 2009 at 0:17
@Grognard: I actually like Keira Knightley, she looks really innocent in that movie. It`s just that she is so fucking thin, if I shagged her I would feel like she was being crushed to pieces! If she could put on some weight it would be nice, would then be my type of girl.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:28
@Footy4Eddy: Good luck over at Milan and give my best to Becks and the Hunter. Tell the Hunter I love him and if I were in charge, he’d be at OT for life. As for you, just remind them all over there that according to the book Soccernomics, Norway is the greatest soccer nation in the world. So you have that going for you as well as your abilities.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:31
@Footy4Eddy: Keira’s ok but I like Martine McCutcheon (Hugh Grant’s girl in the movie). She’s all woman and has some meat on her bones.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:39
For the people who keep questioning the 4-5-1 Fergie plays, I think he’s just playing it safe on the injury front, maybe if he picks up another striker in january he’ll be less reluctant to play two up front, who knows?
That Diouf should be on his way, he’s been scoring a lot of goals apparently!
December 14th, 2009 at 1:46
@Grognard: Thanks mate, but I`m just going there to play a bit. As I`ve told some of you before my uncle knows one of the fitness coaches at Milan, so I have met them before. I`ve played against their junior time once in the past, but this time I am older and I have more of a reason to impress. If not, I`m just gonna try to enjoy myself and do my best.
Whatever the situation, nothing is worse than losing. AND – Nothing is better than winning! 
December 14th, 2009 at 1:50
@Grognard: My favorite chick in that movie is the blonde Colin meets in America, my God she was gorgeous!
Like I said Keira is just way to thin, the wind could move her! Don`t like the one you think is nice, way too big a face and ears for me. Dunno, just something about her.
Innocent and blonde
or
Sexy and brunette
That`s my style.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:54
@Harry Carrick: Diouf has impressed in training, we just need to sort out his work permit and he is good to go! From what I have seen he has the potential to become a great striker. A weaker version of Didier Drogba, but if he could improve his qualities he could become even better. Diouf is a monster of a player, the strongest I`ve seen in the Norwegian League in my lifetime. And that includes players such as Carew, Hangeland, Berg and Hagen! I honestly think he can do well here, and he certanly is much more different that all the other strikers we have. I think he and Pogba could be first teamers come 2011…
December 14th, 2009 at 2:01
I don`t see any harm in playing 4-5-1 to be honest… We played that against Arsenal in the CL semis last season, and many times during the 2007/08 campaign. It worked out well, and I think it also did against Chelsea at the Bridge. It`s just that it doesn`t seem to work without Hargo or Fletcher, we need an enforcer. And Anderson is not that player, no, he is supposed to be our creative force up front, that`s where he performs best. No wonder he fucks up when he is being played as a deep-lying playmaker or enforcer. It`s like playing Berbatov as right back, for Gods sake it`s ruining him!
I think that if we could play Fletcher and either one of Carrick/Hargo next to him, with Anderson just in front of them(as against Chelsea), we could easily play with just one striker up front. What is vital then is that our wingers are up for it, cutting inside as well as creating width. Park cannot play when we do that, Giggs is probably our best option at the moment. But if I could choose it would be Obertan and Valencia, they defo look good and seem to match eachother in a way. Still, in a perfect world we would have Ashley Young… 
Rooney could do well alone up front, but he then need support from the wings and the attacking midfielder, like he did against Villa in the first half with Giggsy. I don`t think using that formation is a waste, not at all I think it can be succesful. It just needs to be used properly, or else we will get fucked like we did against Barca in Roma. Same problem there as against Villa, wrong personel used in wrong positions.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:35
@Footy4Eddy: 4-5-1 can be a veil depending on the two wide men. If they attack and move forward it really is nothing more than a flexible 4-3-3.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:53
@Footy4Eddy: Så ikke nogen kringler eller marzipan for dig
December 14th, 2009 at 5:00
@Footy4Eddy: Hey bro.. Best wishes from me for your MILAN X’Mas. Pass on the same msg that GROG gave to HUNTER but also don’t forget to add my name into it. Afterall I was ready to dance on the streets of MUMBAI if we would have sign him remember????
December 14th, 2009 at 5:01
@Grognard: Grog the whole point of a 4-5-1 is to bolster the MF with the extra man. It gives the wide men more autonomy to do their job, whilst having extras to protect from the fast break. It also will protect a fragile back line (if they hold back) and dominate possession if you play a central diamond (ala Scholes v Wolfsburg). It is by far the most flexible of all formations and one that is preferred if you have a tendency to rely on your MF to score.
Look for it more and more this season, as our forwards continue to fail in the final third.
Quite frankly I’d rather have the extra man in the middle than watch Berbatov practice his ballet moves!!
December 14th, 2009 at 5:03
@Grognard: and@CraigMc: I think the BIG DADDY RR is implanting some MAGIC in here. I mean this place is changing or should I say INTERCHANGING the personalities of regulars on here. I mean you two have just looked like the personalities of each other. Changing the ends where you were at the start of of the season…
I wish i would be able to change my with who??? YEAH… EDDY who else..
December 14th, 2009 at 5:09
@Redrich: I don’t know mate, I kind of like his ballet steps.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:10
@Onkar: Our aim is to play with everyone’s mind.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:12
@CraigMc: I know you arenot greatest of TONY fan but, comparing him with PARK was bit to much. Even on the given day he was better than PARK.
Secondly most of us are so spoilt due to RONALDO heroics in last few season we have forgot what exactly the job of winger is. I mean leave that man alone bro… He has I think 4-5 Goals in around 15 starts and couple of assists at least already. If he wasn’t following the RONALDO in the team we would have held him as a good signing isn’t it?? I mean its a decent return on the investement bro.. He is no RONALDO…. No one can …. Please try and look at him in issolation….
Lastly, when we went to buy him we always new what we were getting. It was always a player who will go wide by line most of the time and whip the ball in. So, if we don’t have a striker to advantage of that we should have not gone for him or else we should have gone for some one like may I say HUNTER… He need a striker who will attack the front post more often then not. Then only his efectiveness will incraese. I mean we are looking like a team of so many misfits isn’t it???
But, it has nothing to do with the players… For me it has to with people who have assembled these players….
December 14th, 2009 at 5:14
@Grognard: Yeah… You already know that you have played on my mind isn’t it???
December 14th, 2009 at 5:16
@Grognard: Yeah and he Plies a bloody sight better than he Glissades – wanker!!
December 14th, 2009 at 5:22
@Grognard: I totally agree with you on point which you said that we are playing this way since that semi final in the CL two years back. But, never had problem with that as it was very much restricted to the CL at that time. But since second half of last year he has brought that style to PL as well and that is where the problem. I mean he should at least try play the PL in Man UTD way.. BUt, we all know that he just doesn’t have enough quality in the team to do so. People come here and say that FERGIE is tacticly incompetent. I can’t believe people say it. I mean I agree that he may not be the most tacticly efficient man but, he is far from incompetent. I am damn sure that whatever he is getting out of this team is not and easy job. I mean all those tactically superior people won’t be able do this for sure. No one achieve so much with this group of player that he has got so far.. AND PEOPLE CALL HIM TACTICALLY INCOMPETENT…FUH GET IT..
December 14th, 2009 at 5:38
@Onkar: True, mate – and with the track record of so much success and the “breeding” of so many top players, it hardly makes sense to point the finger in his direction.
I think that a lot of folks have emotional relationships with the players, stick them on pedestals, and generally make them untouchable gods. It creates a “convenient blindness” to their failings and shortcomings, allowing them the benefit of every doubt and the good grace of countless second chances!!
If you cant blame the play of the players on the players, then who are you to blame???
December 14th, 2009 at 6:03
@Redrich: Yeah… Its like finiding the soft targets to attack… And thats what people do…..
Blame the manager and forget about the shortcommings of players…..
December 14th, 2009 at 6:19
any news on hargreaves and diouf?? kindly update>>
December 14th, 2009 at 6:20
@Redrich: But I think fans also put the manager on a pedestal. If the team performs badly they’ll go on an “in Fergie we trust” chant preferring to brush aside the performance of the players.
So it works both ways.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:24
@adie: Nothing more other than what the official site reports. That they’re applying for a work permit for Diouf and Hargo will return to full training next week.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:35
@Red Ranter: o ok. hopefully diouf should get games by the end of jan or something and hargo can very well be playing by mid jan.. would be nice to see players returning so that they give it their best. the title seems a little far fetched.. but with united.. we probably might make it 4 in a row. surely good times ahead.. unless we keep loosing to mid table teams.. nd that includes liverpool
December 14th, 2009 at 6:43
@adie: Diouf — maybe Carling Cup initially. I still doubt he’ll play for us by January. Also, it’s a good thing Senegal didn’t qualify for the African Cup of Nations.
Hargo — I won’t be holding my breath till he gets a run of games. We’ll find out only as late as March/April if he’s up to it.
December 14th, 2009 at 7:17
@Red Ranter: diouf seems to be a beast for the carling cup. But thats where he’s gonna start for sure. Pray that he’s actually the real deal.
As for hargo.. yup patience will be the key here.. lets just not expect him to covering every inch of old trafford. give him till the end of the season nd then decide if we need any1 as cover cause i dont see fletcher continuing this way next season too.. we surely need a DM nd someone who can play all over the wings as well as AM.. surely gourcuff seems right but even van der vaart could do the job. Just putting up my point.. not that Fergie sits here reading RR all day.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:19
@Redrich:
December 14th, 2009 at 8:24
@Onkar: If Rafa was running the team we we have right now, we would have about the same record as Liverpool. Fergie for all his faults has done a stellar job with slim pickings. Yes he has great depth but the overall quality of the starting eleven is not so great. Yet he manages to get more positive results out of the team than anybody out there could. Tactically he is not great, but the job he is doing is getting the best out of players through man management. He knows how to motivate and how to scare players into performing. And as long as he has them playing a ball control game that limits the amount of time the other teams has the ball, the odds say he has a much better chance of winning.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:35
Just saw the season 4 finale of ‘Dexter’.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:26
@Grognard: Couldn’t agree more. It’s what I’ve tried to be saying since the beginning of the season. We may lose Ronaldo and Tevez, and while there is concern in replacing them adequately, I always knew that as long as we had Ferguson he’ll keep things going for us. If not the title, a top two finish would suit me just fine.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:54
we need a proven goal scorer. i feel rooney is much more a complete player then your high class goal poacher or striker. He wants to be more involved in the game when things arent working. Maybe saf should make a bid for saha now that he appears to be fully fit. Saha is good as any goal scorer in the league. Maybe united should tempt with a swap deal involving berbatov plus cash.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:19
@tom: Are you being serious?
December 14th, 2009 at 11:34
@Grognard: Cheers m8, for taking time to respond to my
I note in Giggsy acceptance speech “I am playing for the greatest manager of all time” now that says volumes!
I can see past that, all i would say, I truely enjoy reading your thoughts( put together with skill)
Also I should just like to add, I am new to this blog, and its not a fear of getting a mauling @ your hands, and I know you have that in your locker from reading a lot of posts
and not a small amount of humour! If you think your under appreciated , Personally i think you are wrong.Anybody who cant see your knowledge and wit, well thats there prob Grog.Keep up the good work
December 14th, 2009 at 11:37
@Stephen:
I thought that too, but just read it as windup 
But hay ho everyone is entitled to there opinion
December 14th, 2009 at 12:01
I have an even better idea rather than just berba and cash, lets chuck in Fletch as well, just to secure the deal!
December 14th, 2009 at 13:10
Arshavin is starting to grow on me.. what a sexy player!
December 14th, 2009 at 18:31
@tom: United should have NEVER got rid of Saha in the first place, it was the DUMBEST shit move ever! What amazes me, is that Everton could do in a short while, what United backroom staff couldn’t do in the lengthy time Saha was at OT – that is convince the lad that knocks and aches were all part and parcel of the game, and NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. United on the other hand wrap their wounded players in cotton wool, and ‘humm and aaaah’ about how we don’t want to push them and bring them back too soon – PLEASE! You can see this with the Hargreaves situation, instead of grabbing the bull by the horns, they plead once again that it is a mental thing with Hargo, and that we want to take our time. Recovering players at OT are treated with the same LONG TERM CAUTION as United play their games these days. WTF are we always being so cautious about. Saha so far has played a good few games for Everton, and is convinced by their physios that he can play thru a few knocks and bruises. Sickens me what goes on with our medical staff at OT – but there you go – CAUTIOUS bloody Nancy’s all over the place. Wonder our lads don’t want to commit hari kari with the disputations and doubts that smother them every time they get a minor injury. Brucey, Hughesy, Robbo, Cantona, Keane would laugh at the goings on in the treatment room at OT these days
December 14th, 2009 at 18:34
@Red Ranter: Easily pleased then RR – SAF will keep things going alright, it is how he is keeping them going that concerns me these past 2 seasons!
December 14th, 2009 at 18:37
@Grognard: He has them playing a ball control game that limits the opposition amount of time possession of the ball – really Grog, you believe that
. I think we give the ball away so cheaply these days, especially in the final third, and certain players are bloody specialists at it – starting with Rooney, you work out who the others are, I am sure you know who they are Grog 
December 14th, 2009 at 18:40
@adie: Tell you what mate, lets not play Hargo at all this season eh – I mean he might just FALL OVER A BLADE OF GRASS and do himself another serious injury – must be cautious eh?
December 14th, 2009 at 18:42
@Merlinus: 29 year old midget. No thanks. He is temporary help for Arsenal. In a year or two he will be an old nedved.
December 14th, 2009 at 18:43
@Red Ranter: I would play Diouf, he can’t be any worse than some of the strikers we have on staff at the moment!
December 14th, 2009 at 18:51
@Red Ranter: Most United fans are afraid to tell it as it is, because they get called NOT PROPER FANS. I mean have they any idea what a proper fan is? A proper fan is someone who bloody cares enough about his beloved club to call shit, shit, when indeed it is shit
. They are willing to be called not proper fans to highlight poor performances, wrong things going on at their club in the hope of a revolution – the party liners on ROM are very good at calling names -
anybody who says anything they consider to be criticism of the Manager or team, and not kosher to what is deemed PROPER fan-ism on their blog – is whiplashed as a blue nose or fucking bastard dipper – its true!
December 14th, 2009 at 18:54
@Redrich: A bit like Nani-ism isn’t it Rich
, that lad is on such a pedestal 
.
December 14th, 2009 at 18:58
@CraigMc: I know. It’s sad. Unfortunately being a fan seems to entail behaving like neanderthals abusing people if they say a certain thing that doesn’t conform to majority opinion. Oh well, that’s how it has degenerated into, and it also feeds into a new form of hooliganism — something which is not physical but full of verbal garbage.
December 14th, 2009 at 18:59
Also would be nice if everyone moved on to the new thread to carry on the discussion. That post is green with envy.
December 14th, 2009 at 18:59
@Onkar: NO mate I wont leave Valencia alone, when he plays like he did against Villa. Nobody is untouchable in Craig’s book Onkar, not Rooney, Valencia, uncle Tom Cobbley or all
December 14th, 2009 at 19:03
@Redrich: Rich – Rudolf Nureyev is back from the DEAD, he will be able to ballet step and pirouette his way thru any defence, leaving them standing and putting the ball in the opposition net – he is a ghost you see. We certainly need someone who can ghost passed defenders and get the goals. Nureyev will play for free too
December 14th, 2009 at 19:05
@Footy4Eddy: Errr we had Ronnie then mate
December 14th, 2009 at 19:06
@CraigMc: It’s not a question of being easily pleased. It’s about context. Of course I’m not satisfied with the way we’ve played, but I think any other manager, in this situation with the resources would have been overseeing a floundering side. Not a side that’s second in the league. It’s relative merit I’m talking of, and if you asked me if I’d rather be Liverpool or Arsenal or United at the moment, I’d take United and Ferguson any day.
I’m not best please with the way we’ve played, but I expected this season to be a hard graft. I predicted that in my season preview, so I’ve been prepared for it.
In short, United’s playing style this season hasn’t surprised me. When you had lowered expectations in the first place going into this season, you don’t have much to complain about. Had we played this way couple of seasons back I would be mad. This is why you don’t see me screaming fire after every dire performance. I’ve been more excited when I see a surprise 4-0 result.
I continue to maintain it’s a season of transition for us. I won’t complain even if we finish 2nd. Of course, I won’t be pleased if we finish below 2nd.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:11
@Red Ranter: Where we differ is that I never settle for second place. Sometimes you have no choice but you never accept it willingly before it actually comes to fruition. I wouldn’t call it defeatism as much as pessimism. As negative as I get, it never enters my mind that I’ll accept anything but first place. Otherwise what the Hell are we watching for? I’ll never understand the fans of minnow clubs who have no hope in the world and who have to settle for pot luck and scraps to satisfy their urges. To them I say…..LOSERS. Love your local team support them, but always have a big club to support also as we all need something to cheer for that has the potential to bring home the bacon. Many of us (me included) are acting like this season is purgatory. No, purgatory is being a Wolves fan or supporting Hull and Bolton. I am fortunate that as a young lad I had the common sense and extreme good taste to latch on to two clubs that just happen to be giants and successful ones at that. I am thankful that I am a Manchester United and Bayern Munich supporter. At least every season leaves me with optimism and the potential for silverware. Now if we could only get rid of the Glazer’s.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:16
@Red Ranter: Yeah like I said RR they abuse by calling true fans blue noses or bastard dippers! Doesn’t stop me getting into it with some of them though – their your not true fan is like water of a ducks back to me – I still tell it as it is. Although I will say there are some VERY solid MEMBERS of the United faithful on that ROM, and diehards for the United cause. So wouldn’t like to tarnish them all with the same brush! At the end of the day they are United thru and thru! I just wish sometimes they could understand though, that when other United fans have to say what they think about the team, Manager etc, they would be able to see it doesn’t make them any less a proper fan!
December 14th, 2009 at 19:20
@Scotjimland: Thanks for the kind words and vote of encouragement mate. Seriously, it makes my day to know somebody out there appreciates my contributions. I have never ever set out to offer my opinions in order to piss people off. I just call it as I see it and unfortunately, sometimes things look gloomy. But it’s because I am a perfectionist and when it comes to supporting teams, an elitist. I have never supported loser organizations or teams that are not committed to winning. Therefore, no matter what sport, I expect my teams to maintain their dominance as well as their style of play. When they don’t I respond.
United has given me over three decades of thrills with a few spills. At no time, not even in the mid 80’s did I feel I was supporting a loser organization. Sometimes we have to take a hit for a few seasons in order to rebuild for another dynasty run, but overall, we have had a tremendous run at this club and I for one am appreciative but I also am spoilt rotten. I do not want the party and good times to end. And I fear with the Glazer’s running the ship and their thriftiness that Fergie has been forced to compromise his natural attacking tendencies in order to keep this team floating above water. That’s where somebody like me comes in and starts to attack, question and challenge the status quo or events of the present. It’s great to know that there are those people out there like you who have the intelligence and common sense to understand what I am all about and who appreciate what I offer. It makes all the hate and abuse I get from some much more tolerable. Thanks again.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:25
@CraigMc: Sha was a royal crud bag. If he had stayed with us he would have spent his time in the infirmary because he hasn’t got the bottle mate. He plays for a decent team but not a contender and he hasn’t got fierce competition breathing down his back so he shows up and performs. Put him on a great team where he has to feel the pressure to perform and where the competition for time is fierce and he breaks down due to a gusty wind. He is a gutless little prick who would rather spend time in bed than have to actually fight for his place. Don’t be fooled by him when he plays for minnows. He is a gutless wonder, Mr. Louis Saha is. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:30
@CraigMc: Ball control in the last game 68% United, 32% Villa. The stats do not lie. I f we didn’t play ball control football, we would be even more sloppy and wasteful. By playing the safe boring pass and always back passing to maintain control of the ball, we limit the time the other team has the ball which limits their chances of scoring. It does not eliminate it completely but it also works when a team lacks the skill and imagination to easily break down other teams. Patience and ball control more often than not rewards that team that possesses it. Our record proves that. You can argue all you want mate but I am 100% right on this even though I agree with you that we should be playing a different brand of football. But Fergie is right not to do so, because we haven’t got the talent for that.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:32
@Red Ranter: Isn’t that the truth.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:34
I’ll give you some results for our upcoming games –
Man United 1 Wolves 2. (Tomaz PIG scores the single United goal).
Man Utd (CHILDREN) 1 – Leeds 2
Man Pity 3 – Man United children 0 (Tevez scores hat trick for City).
December 14th, 2009 at 19:36
@Red Ranter: I too would accept this season to be a hard graft or a transitionary period if ti were not for two lingering things in the back of mind. The first is that I do not see things getting better as long as the Glazer family is in charge and second, Fergie will retire soon. Then what? If we do not put serious money into improving the team and find an heir to Fergie’s throne that is dynamic and perfectly suited for the job, then our demise may be worse than we think and the club’s decline may continue indefinitely. That has been my mantra from the beginning and why I am not happy with the present. I see it as the beginning of something a whole lot worse.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:38
@Grognard: Mmmmmm m’thinks you’ve settled Grog! But go back to my post, I believe I said we are always conceding possession in the final third, and that more oft than not. I couldn’t care less about dinking the ball between the MF and defenders, and back to the goalie all the time, because I am usually asleep on the terraces with that brand of nonsense going on. I don’t agree that Fergie is right to settle for it either – SORRY!
December 14th, 2009 at 19:40
@CraigMc: MY GOD!
and they call me the negative one. 
Traverse, why aren’t you picking on Craig and accusing of all the negativity? Why is always thrown down at my feet? I don’t think I have ever exaggerated our demise quite like Craig has of late.
It’s pretty sad Bro when the Grognard is crying for you to be a bit more optimisitic.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:41
@Grognard: I can’t agree with you ever on that one Grog, sorry!
December 14th, 2009 at 19:44
@CraigMc: We don’t always concede possession in the final third. In fact, more often than not one of our midfielders ends up extricating us out of a bad position by back passing and having us start the attack over again. And it is officially ok to lose position in the attacking third. That is where you are expected to make things happen and even the best of teams will lose the ball more often than they will score. It’s all about controlling the ball in our end and in midfield and keeping the opponent from manufacturing scoring chances or keeping the ball themselves. In that area we are frankly excellent. Now if we had skilled individuals in attack who could figure out ways to unpark a bus, then we would not be bitching about United’s careless giveaways in the attacking zone.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:45
@CraigMc: That’s Ok mate. I’ll learn to live with the disappointment.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:49
Worldwide Newsflash for 2 weeks time – headlines, headlines, sensational headlines! Man United GIFT Man Pity their first piece of silverware in Donkeys years – GET THE POSTER DOWN from the Strettie end NOW.
– that negative enough for you GROGMEISTER? 
.
December 14th, 2009 at 19:51
@Grognard: wE’LL I think you’ve learnt to live with much disappointment from our great club of late Grog, so a bit more from me won’t go amiss eh?
December 14th, 2009 at 19:54
@Grognard: Yeah but the majority of the other good teams that lose possession is usually AFTER they have shot at goal and had it rebound back to them , not after running to the corner flag, Oh dear nobody in the box of our lot, so kick the ball way back to Brownie or Vida
.
December 14th, 2009 at 20:41
@Grognard: It’s not defeatism in my book. I will be disappointed but I recognize that it’s not FIFA 2010 and an odd season of failure can happen and is acceptable if it’s a “reasonable” failure – based on context and my expectations. I just take disappointment better than others. I see it realistic that in life you can’t succeed always. Also, United aren’t failing because of my effort (or lack of it). It’s due to a bunch of people millions of miles away. If I’d failed due to my efforts then I’d be hard on myself and quite unforgiving.
I just don’t place sports as high a pedestal that I demand perfection. I expend that energy on activities I do, to push myself to do better. That’s where a demand for perfection is useful to me. It’s not defeatism but the recognition that humans are not perfect. If we were failing year after year with sufficient resources I would be on their backs.
After winning 3 consecutive titles, raging at the team for not winning the fourth one in a row is not my style of treating the club I support. I’ll be sad on the day, but I’ll move on better than most.
This is not a slight on others, but my reaction to a season performance is more often directly related to my season expectations. I set a lower limit, below which would be unacceptable. (of course there’s no upper limit, obviously) This season anything below second place is unacceptable to me. Because I see the side good enough to finish second at least. But if we don’t finish first I wouldn’t be raging. However last season I wasn’t going to accept anything below first place.
December 14th, 2009 at 20:46
@CraigMc: I wasn’t referring to commenters on ROM specifically. Just fan behaviour on forums in general.
December 14th, 2009 at 21:03
@Grognard: This whole “Fergie will retire” palaver has been the subject of speculation for the last three years. Every year there has been the theory of Ferguson retiring in 2 years. Even Ferguson has contradicted himself. First he said he can’t say when he’ll retire. Then he said he can’t see himself beyond 70. Then, more recently, he said only ill health will see him quit.
It doesn’t matter if we have a fantastic squad or if we had a threadbare one if Fergie were to retire tomorrow. Bayern and Real and to some extent Lyon the past 2 seasons have proven that a crap manager can destroy even a very good side. Sometimes a manager doesn’t have to be crap — merely a change in environment can affect his ability.
Any case when Ferguson retires it’s not just him that will go. Most of the employees: from the groudstaff to the physios to the kitman to the coaching staff would have never worked under anyone at OT. Imagine that upheaval. However good or bad our squad maybe, the arrival of a new manager automatically entails we start from square one.
The other thing is about the Glazer ownership. I think we won’t see significant panic (of the Liverpool scale) until 2012 or 2013 when the time to pay the bigger sums of money kick in. As much as the Glazers may be the anti-Christ, the interests are serviceable purely on the revenue our club makes. As long as Fergie stays — and I’ll wager he’ll be on even in 2011-12 — we’ll still be thereabouts in the league title or Champions League spot.
The main cause of concern comes when we have to pay the principal amount in 4 installments (I think 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 correct me if I’m wrong). I suspect they’ll sell the club by then or will refinance the loan. While I remain skeptical of their actions, I think we are at least 1.5 years from getting really mad at them. Well we have been mad since they came over, but I feel wasting my energy in being mad at the ownership is never going to make them budge. Malcolm never visits OT, unlike Hicks and Gillet, and his coldly distant stand will not be affected by fan protest. Boycotting games is also never going to happen because the club will continue to perform well as long as Fergie will be there (which in my opinion is 2011-12) The real interesting part is after that. Till then I feel it’s unnecessary for me to get involved in debate about how Glazers are screwing our club. I settled into that reality when they took over the club, and I’ll get into it when the time for real change in managers happens.
Finally, I think United are a vastly expensive brand. Honestly I don’t see the value for any owner to pump in £1b of his own money into it when the revenue from the club football is peanuts compared to other fields of business. You’ve read Soccernomics, so I don’t need to get into why ownership of football clubs is more an act of philanthropy.
Anyway I have rambled on, but that’s part of the reason why I don’t waste my time talking about the Glazers now, and rather focus my time on the now — not out of ignorance, which is obvious I’m not from my explanation above — but it’s the football I want to watch and talk about right now.
Anyway, gotta get back to work.
December 14th, 2009 at 22:26
@Red Ranter: Problem for me is that we are so close, yet so far.
Just a couple of good signings and we could be back on top. It’s a fact that must be viewed at OT and so why are we left to sit and watch our team struggle through many games while the Ronaldo money sits idly by??
When you take away the luxury of the WPOTY and replace him with virtually nothing, it’s enough to make even the most patient of us all ferment with frustration!!
December 14th, 2009 at 22:33
@Traverse: wow some desperate comments over there
its a flattering story to read i feel like a group of supermodels in lingerie just tried to get me to leave my girlfriend.
“The consortium would also be willing to take a part-share in United if the Glazers did not want to relinquish total control.”
this
take 500mill and give them 49% keep glazers that love fergi and give him full reign but knock the debt down to a barley noticeable ammt. and game on bitches. 
December 15th, 2009 at 1:21
Yeah, the NOTW comments page is full of chumps. Pogba scored on his debut for the reserves tonight….
December 15th, 2009 at 3:13
@CraigMc: That positively grogifying and grogerific mate.
From now on if I ever get any BS from trolls or from guys on here who dislike my mantra, I will refer you to them and tell them that I am from now on known as MR HAPPY when compared to “Craig the Impaler”. Or is it “Craig the Knife”? Or how about “Craig the Ripper”. Yes, CRAIG THE RIPPER. I like it because he is ripping Fergie and Rooney a new asshole with his cutting comments. 
December 15th, 2009 at 3:14
@CraigMc: I love it. I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness. I just hope you get some of the abuse I get just so that I don’t feel it is just personally directed at me.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:16
@CraigMc: I don’t think you honestly watch those clubs as closely as you do United so that’s not necessarily true, but hey, I’m with you on this, they do hang the sausage to easily when in the attacking third and for me it’s due to a lack of creative skill.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:26
@Red Ranter: “I just don’t place sports as high a pedestal that I demand perfection. I expend that energy on activities I do, to push myself to do better. That’s where a demand for perfection is useful to me.” That’s because you have a life. What about me?
I know and hear what you are saying and you are making complete sense but the fact is that this team and this game means everything to millions. We can all call them lifers and losers or whatever but the fact remains they have chosen United and football to be their number one hobby and chief focus. For them the striving for success and achieving perfection is paramount. Why shouldn’t it be? Sure nobody will win forever but one must at least try. I think what is bothering me is the sense that United have kind of given up trying too hard to win and please the fans. Now it’s just about maintaing a status and selling the brand rather than attaining glory.
Whether you like them or not Real Madrid and the New York Yankees have the attitude that they must win all the time and second place is just not acceptable. Many hate this but in truth, I admire it because I look at these clubs and the revenue stream that they create and seriously think that anything but winning it all should not be acceptable for this club because they do everything in their power to put a solid product on the pitch and win. All you can do is try and they do. I do not see us trying because the Glazer’s have chopped off Fergie’s balls and fed them to David Gill. No money, no stars, no glory. It’s that simple. I could care less about the League Cup or finishing second. United is as big as Real Madrid and the Yankees and therefore should be stacking their squad with players to ensure a realistic shot at winning everything, especially their league and the European Cup. After all, we are not West Ham or Bolton.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:27
@Grognard: To be fair Craig’s got his share of abuse several times. He takes it on the chin better than most of us.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:32
@Grognard: Whether you like them or not Real Madrid and the New York Yankees have the attitude that they must win all the time and second place is just not acceptable
I can’t talk about the Yankees and I’d prefer a comparison within the realms of football. But Madrid are a circus. They throw money around, and are obsessed with brand building more than footballing reward. And it shows with their dismal record over the last decade. Throwing money does not equate to winning. Madrid lack coherency in their approach and to compare them with us is an insult to our club.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:38
@Red Ranter: That was a great ramble RR, I enjoyed it. I agree with you but I have a serious bug up my posterior when it comes to the Glazer’s. They make me want to be anti-Semitic just because of them. I absolutley hate their guts because I know far too much about them and how badly they have fucked up Tampa Bay and dallied in Ponzi schemes and shady investments. They are classic sheisters and they need to go. They have ruined the atmosphere atround OT, have turned the team into a cold corporate monster that cares not one bit about its supporters and have begun to ruin the on field product by slicing away at Fergie money for players. I know they are handling the loan expertly milking for as long as they can by making the bare minimum payment because the club is making them millions in money around the world.
What bugs me is unlike the Yankees and Madrid, that money isn’t making it’s way back to the field or the fans. It’s lining the Glazer’s Swiss bank accounts and growing in interest there while OT begins to slowly burn. They’ll get out when the hammer comes down on the loans because they know a buy will show up to extricate them from having to pay the full amount because legally, they are only obligated to pay a third of it themselves. They disgust me as they remind me of Remora which are those little parasitic fish that live on sharks and survive on whatever the shark doesn’t eat. I cannot ignore them even if I wanted to and I am calling for everyone to wake up now, not in two years when it’s too late. Demand that they sell now as we need to get rid of them before it’s too late. Give Fergie a few years of peace and money to work with before he retires.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:42
@Red Ranter: I’ve been here for two years mate and he has never received the BS I get. Also, until recently, he has not been as negative as I. The only crap he ever gets is about Nani. I on the other hand have ben called everything under the sun and have been accused of almost everything including being a woman. Sorry, but I am the King of Pain.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:49
@Red Ranter: It’s not about how they go about it because Madrid is clealy stupid because the people in charge are Neanderthals. But their intentions are not just brand building. They want to win everything but they do not get the simple philosophy that balance and buying players that blend well together as well as buying defenders too, not just attackers is the key to success. They have the right intentions but haven’t got the right formula. We’ve got the formula but our intentions are no longer sincere. It is United who are more consumed with brand building and less about improving the product on the field.
The Glazer’s aren’t concerned if we finish third as long as some telecom empire signs on or some bank signs a shirt deal. And although the Yankees are in a different sport, I feel they are a very relevant example because they do things the right way. The money they make they put back into the team first and into the Steinbrenner vaults second. No matter how much they spend, they pay their bills and the team is never suffering on the field because they cannot afford to sign a player. Being a diehard Yankees fan and having watched them win seven World Series since I was old enough to care, how on Earth can I possibly complain about their efforts? They do everything in their power to please their fans by always fielding a great team built to win it all. For the Steinbrenner family the first goal of the NY Yankees is to win the World Series, the second is to make a profit. I gotta love that.
December 15th, 2009 at 4:26
@Grognard: That’s because I’m arsing around being devilish sometimes, and othertimes I’m being serious, its just that folk don’t know which is which. Then I’m not at all paranoid, so if people give me landslide altercation responses to my post comments, I don’t really care – cos I love a good sabre rattling debate, and I can take the heat
. So it is up to folk to be able to assess when I am arsing about and when I am being serious – so FAR only one person on the blog is very good at telling the difference – and he won’t be giving any of you any help 
. 
December 15th, 2009 at 4:30
@Grognard: O dear, that doesn’t sound good Grog, its a painful place to be ripping somebody. I stay away from arseholes mate
.
December 15th, 2009 at 4:34
@Traverse: That may well be but the United children LOST AGAIN in their cup game – missing 3 penalties in the shootout, and at that time Bolton has missed their 1st two penalties. I think Ole and his reserve team staff are too feckin timid with that lot – most of them are little pansies mate
December 15th, 2009 at 5:09
@Grognard: Once again regarding this particular quote of yours: But their intentions are not just brand building I have to take issue and address it.
Madrid for the past 15 years have been all about brand. The Beckham purchase was completely brand motivated. The Cristiano Ronaldo deal was footballing in nature, but in Florentino’s first press conference following the CR’s deal he spoke of how important his brand is in Asia. Now will you ever see David Gill or Ferguson talk about a player’s brand? Never. They’ll only talk of the ability the players have and leave the brand building to the marketing side.
Another instance was when Perez left Makelele go because he wasn’t glamorous enough. And the most shocking of all was letting Eto’o go. By most accounts Perez’s opinion of him was that he was too ugly to be marketable. So he let him go.
They fired Vicente del Bosque when he won them the league and the Champions league because there was too much boardroom interference with the coaching and tactics. Again an example of complete footballing naivete.
I’ll give you one more solid example. Perez wanted to have earlier kickoffs of his matches because he could capture the time slot of China and the Far East. (In La Liga, since clubs negotiate their own TV deals he did that) Now while it is a good gesture to appeal to the foreign fans, it wasn’t due to any footballing reason or logic but a pure marketing move. Real Madrid for the past 15 years have been driven so much by greed and marketability that they’ve completely lost focus of the football aspect of the game.
Now you could say we have become like that of late, but we are comparing recent histories anyway. So a comparison with Madrid is completely inaccurate. We are far better as a club than we get credit for despite the presence of the Glazers. They may be ass clowns looking to fleece the fans, but they’ve never meddled with Ferguson’s tactics or even if they’ve had a say in the transfer budget, it’s never been washing dirty linen in public like Gillet and Hicks.
For that, and just that, I think, thank fuck we’re not Madrid! The only big club that actually spends big as well as has a coherent vision at present is Barcelona who despite winning the treble splurged on Ibrahimovic. You bring up Barcelona, and I won’t say a word. But comparisons with Madrid as a paragon just gets me.
I don’t know much about the Yankees, so I’ll take your word for it. But I still am not comfortable making comparisons across completely different business models. Also, Abramovich was the closest owner to not bother much about profits. Even he is feeling the pinch of the economy. And when eventually someone pumps in £1b into the club, he can’t afford to invest merely out of “love for the game.” That is remarkably hard in today’s game and economy.
December 15th, 2009 at 5:21
What post are we on here?? I’m jumping back and forth like a damn jackrabbit!!
December 15th, 2009 at 5:27
@Redrich: We were supposed to have moved to the Giggs post, but conversation continued here. I guess no one cares about Giggs anymore
December 15th, 2009 at 5:34
@Red Ranter: Well he’s a great player and I guess he’s got a great personality – lets move on!
December 15th, 2009 at 5:57
@Red Ranter: We are a far better team than Madrid because we still have Fergie to right the ship. Yes Madrid is concerned by brand, I do not deny that, but they are also obsessed with success in Europe and always besting Barcelona. They buy players that will improve their brand power but Beckham and Ronaldo weren’t exactly slugs coming off the street. They were very accomplished and great footballers that any team would have loved to have. And lets not forget where they came from. United has become a quintessential brand whore. The reason you don’t see them being as bad as Madrid is because of the way the cast of characters carry themselves and the fact they hide behind the curtains. In Madrid Florentino and the rest like to parade their asses out there for all to see because their ego’s are as big as the player’s. But make no mistake about it, Madrid has been winning for as long as Man Utd and has 9 European Cups to their name plus dozens of Spanish titles because they are obsessed with winning and Barcelona’s success is eating away at their pride and ego. So what do they do? They borrow a ton of money and buy players. Well as bad as that may be, Jeez mate, like I wouldn’t exactly cry bloody murder if United did the very same thing. Buy players but buy them wisely I say. After all, at the end of the day it’s really all about me. Satisfying the Grognard’s blood lust for wins, perfection and titles.
And in the end, trust me, that’s a good thing………..FOR ALL OF US.
December 15th, 2009 at 5:59
@Redrich: People just don’t seem too interested in talking about Giggsy mate. We love him but the troubles with the team are consuming our thoughts.
December 15th, 2009 at 12:35
@CraigMc: People loose games you know… Nobody wins every game.
December 15th, 2009 at 12:56
@Traverse: Your not getting it Trav – it is NOT losing games that’s the problem, it is the massive drop in the standard of football that is common at OT these days. SAF should work in training on setting up play against his 1st team by setting up 11 defenders against them, as they encounter in MOST games at OT, and insist they stay there playing until DAYBREAK (if that’s what it takes), until the MF’s and strikers particularly LEARN how to break down ‘park the bus’ visiting team play. Wolves are CONFIDENT that tonight they will park the bus, and that United will have to beat them by breaking them down. They are spouting already that this is the way to BEAT United at OT, with them getting an odd break away goal. It is so bloody obvious Trav, and instead of SAF continually telling his players to have patience, and hope to break down the opposition in the late, late show, he should insist they score early. He should offer a hefty bonus to the player that bulges the opposition net early, and you will be amazed how easy it will seem to come to them
. Like Mick McCarthy is saying – United have to beat us! That means lets see if they can break us down, because he believes that they are not able to do that at OT. Most managers believe that, and set up accordingly!
December 15th, 2009 at 18:13
@CraigMc: Craig, you have been to training sessions at Carrington have you not? If so, please tell me what an average training session consists of because I too have wondered why certain elements of United’s game are weak and never seem to improve. You speak of park the bus practice, I on the other hand would like to see how they handle corners, crosses and how individual players practice fundamentals. For example, does Anderson work on kicking the ball and is anyone working with him on this or how about Foster’s kicking and distribution etc?