Sep 21
United come through its acid test unscathed
This should quite easily be among the most breathtaking United matches in recent times. The drama, the talk going into the match, the punches being thrown pre-match between managers, fans and players alike, everything contributed into elevating the stakes to stratospheric proportions.
It was a derby after all, with three points to bag, but with so much talk, United and United fans would have absolutely hated losing this game much more than past derbies.
The match began at a frenetic pace; it took Rooney all of two minutes to open the scoring, keeping with his rich vein of form. For the first fifteen minutes, it was all United. The players played like this really mattered. After all, whilst a United win would mean status quo, a loss would make everyone in the press bleat about how City have “finally arrived”. That talk would be far too annoying for any supporter, and it’s good to see the players recognized that during the first fifteen minutes.
If there was one recurring theme that could characterize this match it was individual errors. Foster’s indecision — trying to be cute when an adherence to basic goal keeping fundamentals, of clearing the lines, would have worked — was brutally exploited by a certain Argentinian hobbit, who passed it to Barry to stroke it home. 1-1.
After that City gained the ascendancy during the half with Tevez going close; hitting the post. A Tevez goal would have made me absolutely sick, and I’m sure a lot of the fans in the stands who booed him at every opportunity would have felt the same. Thankfully we went into halftime, level, and hopefully, a Ferguson bollocking lying in wait.
Before we talk about events that were to follow, I must praise the manager for getting his tactics right. We didn’t accord the unnecessary respect we seem to give to any decent side at OT [like our 4-5-1 against Arsenal at home, for instance] 4-4-2 it was, and a fearless one at that. Park was more or less expected to do the defensive work, whilst Giggs started on the left.
We started the second half with much more purpose, ran City’s midfield ragged, Ryan Giggs, Darren Fletcher growing into colossal figures in the match; the two combining to score two of our four goals. Anderson also was impressive in lending urgency and steel to our midfield alongside Fletcher. It’s glaringly obvious now, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, our midfield looks far better with Fletcher in it. And he was everywhere, now even attacking the ball at full pelt in the box. We have been crying out for midfielders who can step up to share the goal scoring burden. Yesterday Fletcher did just that, and more.
To be fair, not much could be done about Bellamy’s first goal — it was a belter and a fabulous one. However, once we made it 3-2 with another Fletcher header, and winded down the clock, Ferdinand inexplicably looped the ball, in an attempt to be the footballing equivalent of cool as some of his rap idols, gifting the ball away with another counter attacking goal from Bellamy. Foster was beaten at his near post, but the fault squarely lay on Rio. I wouldn’t hound him for it; I’m sure he’s yet to fully recover from his injury. With Evans also playing on through pain in other games, with a dodgy ankle, we have some issues with our defence that needs sorting.
Much has been made out of the extra time given to United resulting in our injury time goal, but according to the MOTD2 analysis, Bellamy’s goal celebration took 56 seconds, the Carrick-Anderson substitution would add another thirty seconds thus giving us a total added time of 5:26. We scored at 5:27; a second later, which is not something Hughes should be mad about. What he should really be talking about was the mindless hoofing City’s defence resorted to in an attempt to see out the day, rather than holding on to the ball to run down the clock. High scoring derbies, are often a showcase for poor defending, whilst being great for the neutral. Yesterday was no different in that respect. We made some glaring individual errors which Ferguson was rightly angry about, but given the way we dominated the second half we would have scored 6-7 goals if not for Given’s late reaction saves. City were abject defensively, and it will take them a while to gel together as a back four.
It’s fantastic to see Michael Owen net the winner for us. We’ve swapped Tevez for Owen, saving us millions, but earning us absolute gold; in terms of Owen’s quality, if he can approach his form of old (and staying fit). I like the way we’ve handled him so far, nursing him onto the big stage rather than rushing him and expecting the world out of him. He gives us a different option, completely predatory in nature, and his experience and intelligent movement was the difference yesterday. Ferguson spoke about giving him more chances and it’s good to see him make the right noises ever since he joined United.
And finally, all praise must be reserved for Ryan Giggs. I wrote an article last week on the need for our old guard to call it quits, but I made a clear exception on Giggs. Today showed us why he still has a big role to play. I remain sceptical on his ability to play all ninety minutes on a regular basis. But he stood head and shoulders apart yesterday. The clear standout performer alongside Fletcher. He lacks the pace but his intelligence and ability to weave past players, as if in slow motion, was still on display — and almost surreal, in a way.
Three matches of real importance, i.e., Arsenal, Spurs and City, and nine points from the three. We eked out a win against Arsenal playing poorly. We beat Spurs in a commanding display, and we got the result against City despite the nervy nature of the contest. Chelsea as a threat loom large, following their thrashing of Spurs, but for now, we can be satisfied that we’ve passed our first acid test of this season.
Before I sign off, here’s the MOTD2 video of the derby, in full streaming goodness. Watch it before it’s taken down:
Manchester United v Manchester City
Related items from Red Rants:
- Test
- Preparing to beat Reading
- United warmup for Arsenal with second half blitz
- Stoke City vs Manchester United: Preview
- Roma vs Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Match Reports
September 21st, 2009 at 7:52
At first I actually felt Hughes had a legit beef with the refs for the amount of extra time given but based on the interpretation of the rules, a subbing of a player is 30 seconds and Bellamy literally took a minute to celebrate his goal so 4 minuted plus a minute and half makes sense. Then he had to play another 30 seconds or so because of United’s celebration of Owen’s goal. I’d like to say that I feel sorry for Sparky………..but here’s the thing…………………………….. I don’t.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:12
Also I updated the post with the MOTD video of the derby.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:44
The greatest Manchester derby I can remember. Owen has wrote his name in united folk law. Who did he play for in the past I have no idea. The image of the day SAF dancing down the touch line towards the city fans. Such a great day those in blue singing “your not even from Manchester” why are they obsessed with that The reply from me “you haven’t won a trophy”. Love the reception Tevez got, just what he deserved Great day, why can’t it be like this every week.
On a side note. A real shame to see the white Tiger Woods (Graig “the club” bellendery” ) Hit one of our fans. I hope the FA act according. He is a true classless thug from the Joey Barton school of tw*ts
September 21st, 2009 at 8:53
@Grognard: But looks like most of the ABU media are harping on about the time added on without looking at the facts.
Here in Asia, on ESPN’s coverage the YSB cunt Steve McMahon was hinting at he existence of “Fergie Time” bullshit.
Well here’s something you guys might or might not have observed: at the Arsenal game couple of weeks back, when the fourth offical held up the board for 5 mins of added time, I was shocked. There was no way so much time was wasted. But because it was Arsenal who were chasing the game, nothing was made out of it. If indeed it was United at 2-1 down, I am sure we wouldn’t be hearing the end of “Fergie Time” complaints from the media, Wenger and all the other ABUs.
And trust the media to give more coverage to a innocuous boot throw by Rooney to the punch by Bellamy at the game today.
And Mark Fuckin Hughes is a disgrace. I know Fergie and United haven’t been angels in the past, but defending Adebayor and Bellamy after what they have done. Liar and twat of the highest order.
September 21st, 2009 at 9:18
Red Ranter, I think that O’Shea was at fault in Bellamy’s first goal. He systematically fails to close down attackers and leaves them too much space to shot/cross the ball. Wes Brown is a much better defender in my opinion and should be our first choice as rb.
September 21st, 2009 at 9:54
Was that like a cup final or what? Fuck me, i haven’t been that gee-ed up for a long while! Oh the nerves,the heart, thats what it is to be a United fan. Very pleased after yesterdays performance/result. Classic derby for sure! Fletcherihno,(now this man is a perfect example of Fergie knows best! I, among others had written off Darren a long time ago! Now look at him, captain of his country, quickly becoming Most Valuable Player for his club now! Wtf do i know?
) what a monster, and was that Ryan Giggs the Younger?I was transported back in time, about 10 years ago, just looking at Giggsy! This is where all that clean living comes back and repays you, fair play Ryan, living/playing United legend! Just loved seeing him twist and turn Ireland inside out! Twice! Fuckin magic! I really hope that Hargo comes back strong, but even if he doesn’t, Anderson seems to have picked up his game and attitude, fair play to the lad. Again, very clever on Fergies behalf, his man management is second to none.
Never write off United, this team can play better than the sum of its parts, and we’ve got use right manager to utilise our strengths.
Glory, glory Man United,
glory, glory, Man United,
as the Reds go marching on, on, on!
September 21st, 2009 at 9:59
Great match, great atmosphere, for once the game itself lived up to all the hype. Really we should have beaten the bunch of mercenaries and their deluded, obnoxious fans 4-1. The ABU’s are besides themselves with their usual accusations of conspiracy, cheating etc which makes the victory even more sweeter. The look of bewilderment on the face of Judas was classic.
September 21st, 2009 at 10:03
@frankie: if its anyones fault it’s park.. o’shea was showing bellamy down the line and all park had to do was go in and take the ball… and what does he do watch closely and you will see he runs away from the ball allowing the space!
September 21st, 2009 at 11:05
Thoughts on (a wonderful) game:
1. Our defense has issues, period. Foster contiunes to make mistakes that other goalkeepers make (see VDS v Reyes for an even worse example of yesterday’s goal) but he seems to be put under so much pressure that he’s bound to break. I have no idea what he did to the media/fans, but they clearly hate him and he’ll never be given a chance.
2. Rio won’t do that again. Period.
3. John O’Shea is not a first XI right back. I don’t know if Wes Brown is, but surely he’s higher in the order than Johnny?
4. Anderson and Fletcher should have been outplayed by Ireland/Barry/De Jong – but they weren’t. Both had great games.
5. Ji-Sung Park offers nothing to our game. His consistent inclusion seemingly in the face of terrible performances is just a mystery. I don’t care how nice he is, how great he is to coach and all that – he lacks the fundamental footballing ability required to play for us at the moment. FFS Fergie why can’t you see this?
6. Giggs had as good a second half of football as you’re likely to ever see a winger have – but that might be due to him having not played in the first half.
7. Berbatov was really quite good. Must be gutted. From those distances he did the right thing – get it on target. Given always has games like that against us.
8. We deserved all 3 points but it doesn’t change the fact we were very close to not getting them. Somehow we’ve gone back to being slightly suicidal in our mentality. Particularly when Evra bombs forward and leaves Vidic to keep pacy with tricky wingers.
9. Hughes has to defend his playrs to a point, but he’s taking it a bit far. Out by Christmas.
10. We’ve probably had the toughest schedule of the big 4/6 to date, and we’re right up there. Let’s keep this momentum going and spank some of the smaller teams, dropping 2 points to Stoke would do a great disservice to this game’s memory!
September 21st, 2009 at 11:48
@Beachryan:
Firstly on Foster, he hasnt done anything to offend the media or the fans, its just that goalkeepers are judged as much on their shot stopping as on their consistency. Making one gaffe a season is all fine, but he has already made 3-4 errors in the season so far. So for all his heroic shot stopping the rest of the game, its always the cock-ups that will be remembered. That is the nature of goal-keeping. Take Barthez for example. For all his eccentricities, he was a great shot stopper, but do any of us remember that?
And on Berba, people are making him out to be really unlucky. Well he was unlucky, but not to the extent that you make him out to be. For a central striker, the chances he got are bread and butter. He should be burying them all day long. Take the Torres header on Saturday as an example. He was under pressure, but still managed to get the ball in the corner, and he headed DOWN. For all his heroics, Shay Given was not made to pull a truly magnificient save by Berba. Do you really think Ruud or Ronaldo would have not scored atleast 2 of the 3 chances?
September 21st, 2009 at 11:51
@frankie: I agree mate, when Wes Brown is fit, he is the better defender, and should be on the pitch. He wasn’t even on the bench yesterday, with Red Nev prefferred, Mmmmmm the mind boggles. I think also if Richie DeLaet plays all the cup games this season, and he does as well as he has in the couple of games he played for the 1st team, then he will get Garry’s place in the next season or two! That lad is immense, and far too good for the reserves!
September 21st, 2009 at 12:02
@Beachryan: For your answer Beachy to why the fans/media are on to Foster all the time, just look at point two in your enumerated list – i.e. Rio will not make that mistake again PERIOD! The same cannot be said about Foster mate, because unfortunately for Ben he does keep making mistakes on the slowness of clearing his lines all the time. This area of his game is so glaringly in need of putting right, that I cannot understand why he and our coaching staff seem too dumb to see it!
September 21st, 2009 at 12:05
@Vivek: I agree about the fact that Rudd would have certainly buried the chances. But, I don’t agree with what you are saying somewhat totally. I mean, if you have both the headers which were clear cut opportunities the first one was berba’s miss as he was in 6 yard box and had a free header but he headed it straight down the throat of Given. But, on the second occasion it was more of a STOP from Given rather than MISS Berba. And we have to remember that year afetr year playing for New Castle GIVEN has always managed to have great games against us…
But, still RUDD was Definitely head and shoulder above Berba as far as Goal Scoring is Concern…..
September 21st, 2009 at 12:17
Mark Hughes aftermatch quote to the media – THEY are not supposes to be bothered about us, but when Owens goal went in, they celebrated like it meant everything to them to have beaten us, and Gary Neville wsent mental! Well I want them to know that we are still hear, and we are going nowhere! I think the 2nd half of that statement might be very correct in the long run – they are going nowhere!
Also, Hughes should remember that all the hyped furore was whipped up by Manchester City themselves, day after day after day. If he didn’t want to incite Man United passion against his club, City wouldn’t have put up their inflammatory poster in the middle of Manchester town centre. What Hughes is upset about, is that Man City have whipped things up to such an extent, that both He and a good few of his players cannot deal with the stress without completely losing their heads!
September 21st, 2009 at 12:25
I think Foster has made two very poor mistakes this season, but from every match so far people have picked up on at least 2 or 3 that he should be taken to task for. In a way that, certainly, EVDS was not. The Arshavin shot was a great example – yes maybe he could have done a bit better, but it wasn’t like he missed the ball, he actually did well to get over to it. From reading on here you’d of thought he walked up to Arshavin, picked the ball of his feet and threw it into the back of the net.
I have no idea if he has the mental and physical skills to be our number 1. But I do know that if we treat every new keeper the way he has been treated, we’ll never be able to get a new number 1.
I’d much rather Foster do that once in his career, in a game we won, and that he use this as motiavtion to improve his concentration.
September 21st, 2009 at 12:25
With regards to the Media – the ABU’s are so mightily pissed that City didn’t beat us, because they had their pens at the ready for the Fergie and Man United slaughter. THe headlines were already printed and edited – Fergie knows he is 2nd best now, that Man City are the new Kings in town etc etc etc
. Shame they had to be kicked into touch. No mention that when Chelsea played Stoke – 7 minutes times was added to that game and Chelsea scored in the las minute to win 1-0. L’Pool are always getting added time that no one knows where it comes from. Mark Hughes practically accosted the 4th official on the sideline, and was firmly brushed away. If Hughesy loses his head like that, his players are going to as well!
September 21st, 2009 at 12:40
@Craig Mc: PS- Gary Neville hilarious.
Celebrating like a lunatic 
– runs down to the city fans- has the presence of mind to realise what he’s done- then pretends to warm up- priceless! 
September 21st, 2009 at 13:10
@Beachryan: Beachy – can’t you see how many times he was nearly caught out yesterday trying to CLEAR his lines. He wants too long mate, and you don’t get that time to look around and dawdle before kicking the ball out of your area. Tevez almost caught him 3 times yesterday, and once it cost us a goal
. I’m sorry but that has to cost us if the message doesn’t get thru to him. The coaching staff should jump on this, because United fans are fearful every time the ball is passed back to Foster!
September 21st, 2009 at 13:11
@vanderberg: I know mate
.
September 21st, 2009 at 13:14
Vivek- Ruud and Berbatov shouldn’t be compared at all. The former was the best finisher the Premiership has ever seen. Not even Inzaghi or Trezeguet come close. I do think he should improve his goalscoring rate but he seems to be attacking the goal more. Shay Given is a brilliant shot stopper. His reactions are second to none in the Premiership. He has his other weaknesses but when it comes to close range shot stopping that certainly isn’t his weakness. And besides there are three goalies that when it’s their day it’s just their day and u can’t buy a goal if they’ve started saving your shots. Given, Friedel and James. Personally I feel The Count should be given a good chance as it seems his partnership with Wayne is beginning to bear fruit and he seems eager to get goals. I think so far his season can be described as unfortunate. You could smell a goal coming vs Spurs but it was necessary for Scholes to acquire his 1st of 5 reds for the season and he had to be sacrificed. In the Arsenal game, the manager resorted to cowardice but once introduced Berbatov had a great impact on the game. But still missed a sitter. I think we owe him time at least, esp after wasting his debut season in the no man’s land between the border of midfield and strikers. Now looks as if Ferguson is repenting from his player positioning atrocities.
September 21st, 2009 at 14:03
link check this out,bellamy hits a restrained fan but is afraid when ferdinand grabs his shirt….
September 21st, 2009 at 14:25
Picture of the DAY: here ” inglorious bastards” t-shirts sold outside at oldtrafford
absolutely hilarious
September 21st, 2009 at 14:28
That’s hilarious.
September 21st, 2009 at 15:08
Am currently watching a replay of the match. Will give my thoughts after
September 21st, 2009 at 15:15
@Jay wire: Only got one thing to say in answer mate – Mickey Owen – one chance – one goal, and that in such a prestige game as Manchester Derby!
September 21st, 2009 at 15:26
I’d just like to say if you really want to review a match without being clouded by emotion, mute the volume. Really helps.
September 21st, 2009 at 15:29
@Jay wire:
Ok then let me compare Berba to the contemporary strikers in the league. Off the top of my head, Torres, Drogba, Adebayor, Crouch, Defoe, Darren Bent, Kenwyne Jones, Tim Cahill would all have taken 1 if not more of those chances. As Craig said, even Mickey Owen would have taken 1 despite being a whole head shorter. Point is, its all fun when we watch him orchestrate play outside the box, but as a striker his primary duty should be inside the box, the other attributes should be complementary.
September 21st, 2009 at 15:38
Just two thing.1. The BBC MOTD 2 added up the time addded on at the end of the game and it turned out that Owen scored the goal 1 second after time was up. So therefor Sparky should shut the hell up. Nuff said! 2. Ive said it once and ill say it again, Ben Foster takes way to long to clear the ball when its passed back to him. He waits till the ball is basically at his feet so he can reposition himself to kick it wit his left foot. A goalkeeper of his standing should know by now you have to position yourself to kick the ball wit watever foot is your strongest long before the ball is at your feet.
September 21st, 2009 at 15:54
so many millions played in this game
one of the most setup games in the Manchester derby history
anyway , Ben Foster SUCKS !
September 21st, 2009 at 16:11
@NiKOS: Why are you here you twat! You should have been banned a long time ago
September 21st, 2009 at 16:20
Right. I have to touch on all the major talking points in my own review of the game. It was a great game and was quite open which is encouraging. It was also frenetic and dramatic which is a great thing for a derby. Okay. From the back. Ben “the unloved” Foster. Didn’t have a great game. Looked panicky at times. 1st goal was really not his fault. There was nothing else to do but try and beat Tevez 1st. Tevez was just to close when the ball got to Foster and clearing it looked almost impossible without getting blocked by the tenacious forward. 2nd goal was not entirely his fault either. Simple rocket into the top right corner. Super goal really. I put the blame on either or both of O.Shea and or Park who were confused by Bellamy. 3rd goal. Well he has to take some blame there. Maybe 20% of the blame. The decision to move forward and then slightly to the right opened a very small gap between him and the post and due credit to Bellamy who pushed the ball thru that tiny space under great pressure. His clearing still leaves a lot to be desired but he doesn’t deserve all the heat being levelled at him. Still I’d rather we acquired a better keeper for him to play understudy.
September 21st, 2009 at 16:27
John O.Shea- Was okay defensively but then again he didn’t have much to do from that side since City were mainly trying to go thru the middle. Offered something in the range of zero and not much ito attack. Average. Should be allowed to leave that right back spot to Brown for now
September 21st, 2009 at 16:38
@Dan: ehh?
September 21st, 2009 at 16:47
Rio&Vida- Rio nearly cost us three points but was pretty solid imho throughout the game. Vidic was rarely troubled and made no mistakes at all. Nothing to worry about in our central defence Evra-great game and unlike his counterpart on the right, he took full advantage of the gaps left on the flanks due to City’s tactics. Had almost nothing to do defensively and linked well with Giggs and Rooney. Fletcher and Anderson- Energy, energy and more energy. Considering that City’s tactics were to play thru the middle and thereby placing 3 in the midfield I think our pair did quite well. Ball retention, chasing the ball and driving the team from the middle. I was impressed. Given that this happens to be I think their 1st full 90 together in the middle they did the job well. Fletcher esp. Great tackling. Anderson has still work to do ito accuracy and getting himself into offensive positions esp his off the ball movements in attack. He has great vision though and some of his crossfield balls were amazing. I am convinced that these guys should become our 1st choice in the middle however.
September 21st, 2009 at 16:54
Park- Wasn’t as bad as some will have you believe. Wasn’t great either. He’s pretty good with the one twos. Personally I’d rather more chances be given to Nani and Valencia in his stead. And on that note I have to say Valencia is a good crosser of the ball. He can still deliver a great and dangerous cross under immense pressure and in tight corners. He is quite fast too but definitely needs to add more to his game than crossing. Not too imaginative.
September 21st, 2009 at 17:00
Giggs-had a great game but I don’t think it was his best in recent times. I put the Chelsea game as one of his masterclass performances. Still he was sublime. Alongside Berbatov and Scholes they make a trio of our most intelligent players. Very clever indeed. Hard to point out any faults but if I have to be forensic I’ll say he needs to work his passes. But best player on the pitch.
September 21st, 2009 at 17:00
@Red Ranter: Well, the last time we heard from the twat, he was calling my mother a “tittie fucker” and a bunch of other brainless things to do with my mother. This was during one of your hituses and threads started would reach 700 comments minimum.
I believe this is when eddy started posting, and even he had to tell nikos to do one.
September 21st, 2009 at 17:18
Rooney & Berbatov- Rooney was not exactly setting the stage on fire tbh. On and off. He seems to find it hard to hold on to the ball and he has a very poor pass completion rate in general. He really needs to work on that. Very hard. And his shooting has deteriorated over the years. No confidence in shooting which was probably his strongest attribute. Something needs to be done about that. Took his goal pretty well under pressure and is fast becoming a big threat inside the box. Strange indeed. Rusty outside the box. Deadly inside the box. You’d think we were referring to Ruud van Nistelrooy. How things have changed. Anyway onto his strike partner. His link up play with Rooney and everyone else was really impressive. One thing struck me in recent games. He is attacking the goal. He is trying hard to score and getting into good positions to get the goal. He is even shooting from outside the box. He is definitely not lazy. That’s ridiculous to say he is. For the most part he was unlucky not to score. The 1st close range header was a good save from Given but he should have directed it sideways. 2nd header was a good header by him and a great save from Given. Can’t fault him there. The important thing 4 me is he is now actively trying to get on the scoresheet. Their partnership seems to be on the right direction. He may need to make enquiries from Fletcher on how to head properly.
September 21st, 2009 at 17:29
we need to support ben foster.he is better than PIG.from what i watching yesterday rio was also at fault for the 1st goal and clearly the 3rd goal.
September 21st, 2009 at 17:30
@NiKOS: For information, I did not write this comment!!!
(Often people seem to make a confusion between nikos and NicoQB…)
September 21st, 2009 at 17:31
Finally. Michael Owen. I feel he would succeed as a hitman or hired assassin. In fact the earth could be caving in around him with Transformers 2 type explosions taking place and he will still hit his target. Clinical. Not since the days of Ruud and Ole have I seen such precision. Cold blooded finishing. He is our very own Dexter. Having said that there was some silly noise about Craig Bellamy’s goal celebration. Please don’t spoil a great game with such silly “observations”. Look at Michael Owen’s celebration and if you still come to the same conclusion book an appointment for a CAT scan hastily.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:03
@Shreyas: There were a lot of goals scored in regulation time, 3 in all and if you look at each goal in second half costing 30 seconds then that is two minutes just for goals. For everything else, there should always be at least two minutes added because there are times the game stops for free kicks, throw ins, injuries etc. Now if we add to that six substitutions which are another 30 seconds each, excessive time wasted celebrating goals by both Bellamy and finally Owen, I see another 4 minutes being added. So for me, there should have been 7 to 8 minutes of extra time based on all those factors. Where Hughes has a legitimate argument is that despite what the rules say, you rarely see referees live by the law when it comes to injury time. Rarely do we see 5 minutes of injury time in games unless there is a long injury delay in a game. I mean if we are all truly honest with ourselves, I think we do have admit that we were all amazed that the whistle had blown 30 seconds before the goal was scored. Still, according to the rules there is nothing that looks shady from the referee, but clearly, there is a good chance he wasn’t much of a Man City fan.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:07
@frankie: Absolutely right. O’Shea gave Bellamy far too much room and was lacking the aggressiveness needed to close down on a player and force him wide. Bellamy was allowed to casually move right and take all day to target himself and and take his shot. And although it is not Fosters fault on that goal, I feel he was not in a strong position to make the save as he was hugging the near post a little to closely and never cut out Bellamy’s angle better. Had he done so, he may have gotten a finger on it. Still, not his fault, but he is paid to make impossible saves and the way you make those types of saves besides having the talent is by positioning yourself properly and Foster for me has never had strong positioning or footwork. And we won’t even talk about the other goals he gave up because then I’ll just rant on for twenty minutes.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:11
@Vivek: Thing is Vivek mate – Berba had 6 great opportunities inside the box, 3 where there was no player pressure upon him whatsoever, and yet he still couldn’t score. He did what he always seems to do, head or shoot the ball DIRECTLY at the opposition GK. You see what Mickey Owen did is AN ART FORM, he always places his shots away from the GK’s.
Lets see how Mickey does if he playes against Wolves in the cup game, especially if he plays full game! Then we will know better. So far he has proved just as good as Tevez was at coming on late into the game and snatching goals!
September 21st, 2009 at 18:22
@Cyclops-Red: Our defending in the game as well as our goalkeeping was comical because they allowed City to score three goals and hit one post in four chances. Yes they only gave up four chances all game and other than that City never touched the ball but we have become incredibly careless with the ball in our end and have lost that edge and that concentration that our back four and EVDS are known for. Lets just say that the Foster experiment is and will be a massive failure of epic proportions. The man is a muppet. The man makes Massimo Taibi look like Schmeichel. He makes Manuel Almunia look like Sepp Maier. He is the worst keeper I have seen at this level in years, and I am not exaggerating my point in the least.
Our back four have lacked the cohesiveness and the focus and raw edge that they have had in the past. Injuries and just poor form have made the Fearsome Foursome very ordinary indeed. Vidic has been good but has not been his blazing physical self from last season…..yet. Rio is just a shell of himself and he’s playing like he is high on drugs. His focus and concentration is terrible and he has clearly lost a step or two. Many will blame his injury for causing his pace to be less and his focus to be poor but need I remind all that he was like this in preseason as well and lets not forget the gaffs he was making while playing for England too. Something is not right with Rio but I feel comfortable and secure that he will right the ship. Our RB situation is concerning me because O’Shea has looked poor of late and Neville has never been Neville for a while now. Rafael has been injured and i am not sure what is going on with Wes Brown. When healthy and committed Wes Brown is all we need at that position but he too has been absent both when he plays and when he doesn’t.
Surprisingly, the only man to be a consistent performer this season is the artist formerly known as Skinned Sausage. Pat Evra has been very good and has helped all of us forget his poor form from last season. He’s had a few bad moments but overall, he has been good. As a group the boys need to communicate better and that has more to do with the idiot manning the goal than anything. Fergie talks about demanding his keepers know English in order to communicate but that apparently isn’t helping Foster who seems shell shocked while on the pitch. This especially shows up when highballs come into our box. Our defenders who are strong in the air have been getting beat all season and have been out of position or letting their markers get free. I know right now who Peter Schmeichel would blame if he was watching the games. Ben Frakken Foster. EVDS, PLEASE COME BACK ASAP.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:25
@Will: It was O’Shea’s fault 110% as he gave up too much room and didn’t do what any defender would do in that situation which is move forward and force Bellamy out wide. Park could have done more but in that area of the pitch, Bellamy was not his responsibility.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:37
@Vivek: Correct on all counts mate. Foster makes too many mistakes. For others to say that EVDS and others also make mistakes is not a valid argument because EVDS will make two bonehead gaffs a season while Foster makes two each game at least. Lets not forget the ones he makes that don’t cost us goals. He is the last line of defense and like Cantona once said about Schmeichel that he allowed them to play with confidence and take chances because he made them all feel secure that he would be there to stop anything should they screw up. Foster never leaves us with the confidence that he will make the stone cold stop when the back four have fouled things up.
As for Berbatov, yes he is unlucky but here is the thing about being lucky, to be lucky you need to be good and you need to have confidence. Berbatov has no confidence right now. He is fighting himself. A great striker in form has the confidence and the ability to head the ballat goal but away from the keeper. The Torres header is a good example but look at the Fletcher headers yesterday, especially the second one. He aimed for the corners. Berba needs to do more of that. I get more upset with players who shoot straight at a keeper than those who miss the goal by inches or a few feet wide.
I have always believed that Owen would come good for us because he still has the confidence and the guts to shoot for corners. Both his goals have been scored like that and most of his misses have been shots that have gone wide rather than right at the keeper. Berba needs to take shooting and heading practice seriously and work on his composure when shooting or heading. He is so composed in every other aspect of his game, but when he is asked to score goals, he has acquired a chicken switch that makes him think too much and become tentative and nervous. This leads to bad luck finishing an shooting right at keepers. Hopefully he can overcome this because he is now more of an attacking force than he was last year as he is in the box much more and getting many more chances to score than he would in the previous campaign.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:38
@Craig Mc: Totally agree mate. Brown is the man and if not him, De Laet must be given a shot to establish himself. But I wouldn’t forget Rafael either. He lacks a lot more defensively but he is a strong attacking force and he will improve in all areas too. He needs to play for that to happen though.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:45
@Beachryan: He was poorly positioned for the Arshavin shot while also lacking the concentration and the footwork to get to it quickly. But that is the least of his many errors. I counted five terrible mistakes alone in the Charity shield and at least 3 in every game except one. He makes some great saves but he has poor positioning, his footwork and distribution is completely amateur and his concentration and decision making is a total joke. A great keeper has all these attributes every game, not just a few. It gives no team and no back four any confidence knowing that they cannot trust the keeper behind them to not only make the big stop but to do the little things that are expected of him and that teams take for granted. The first goal given up yesterday is a perfect example of that and the third just emphasizes the need for the defense to feel more secure because they will make mistakes that will cost us goals, but it would help if we had a keeper that would have played Bellamy correctly. I have one word to describe Ben Foster and it’s what I truly believe. Ben Foster is a BUM.
September 21st, 2009 at 18:49
@frankie: Problem being, Brown isn’t fit enough yet. And with Rio already looking touch and go, it’s hard to expect Brown to play alongside him.
September 21st, 2009 at 19:48
This was probably the second most heart-tampering game that i have witnessed in my united life (obviously the ‘99 CL final is no. 1); it was an emotional roller coaster and i would like to know what other sport can offer such excitement, entertainment and heart attacks…
We should have won the match 4-1, but two moments of poor decision making hurt us with Foster being at the center of one and Rio at the other. Foster has showed us that he is not United quality; time and time again he has made absolute howlers that we previously had not seen from him (previous seasons) in which he played fairly well, with many good reaction saves. So my question is,
“Is Foster not concerned with performing to his full potential because he knows that he will be replaced once VDS comes back (i.e no competition/no reason to do well)?
The second goal and almost more of a howler than Foster’s attempt to be an outfield player was Rio’s absolute ridiculous decision to try and cutely lob the ball a city player.
Rio’s thought process (or lack their of)
1) I was the last line of defense so I probably shouldn’t try to be cheeky
2) Perhaps I am not fully fit so I cannot perform these “trick” moves
and I sure a hell cannot track down a sprinting Bellamy.
3) Maybe, I’ll help my good friend Foster and show our fans that everyone makes a howler now and again
Unfortunately, his good nature shone through and he helped out Foster; what a lad!
@Red Ranter:
You said that you wouldn’t hound too much because he is not fully fit. I strongly disagree. If he is not fully fit he should know not to try all these moves and play it safe. The third goal was absolutely his fault 110%; this is inexcusable from a world class defender. I would expect stuff like this from someone like Carragher, not from my beloved Rio.
September 21st, 2009 at 20:14
I still think my player ratings are the most accurate, so I’m re-posting them here!
Foster – 4
Totally at fault for the first goal, and could have done better closing down on the third (Bellamy’s second)
O’shea – 6
Run ragged by Bellamy. To be fair, Neville and Rafael wouldn’t have fared better imho. Wes Brown should have started.
Ferdinand – 4.5
Was already not having the best of games before his moment of madness. Partly at fault for another goal too.
Vidic – 7
Ok, but not spectacular either. Did his job with no-nonsense clearances. Foster and Ferdinand could take heed.
Evra – 7.5
Usual Evra. Relatively solid in defence, wasn’t fazed playing against his old pal tevez, and contributed going forward.
Fletch – 9
Two goals from a defensive midfielder, what more can one ask for? I thought he was maybe a bit tired in the first half though.
Anderson – 7.5
Good presence, but once too many times dodgy end product.
Giggs – 9.5 MOTM*
How does he do it?
Assists, dribbling runs, passing – if he can keep his fitness levels up, he can easily play past 40 years old. Our very own Maldini.
Park – 5.5
Poor passing in the first half, poor end product, fouls…
Rooney – 8.5
Dangerous on the ball, kept his position, tracked back only when needed: a typical in-form Rooney performance. Once in a while a bit selfish (could have passed to berbatv a bit more), but all in all a well-rounded performance by him.
Berbatov – 7.5
A rather poor showing in the first 45, but picked up his game in the second half. Given denied him several times good scoring opportiunities, but as some said, he could have given more direction to his headers. I still think his team mates should pass the ball to him more though.
Subs:
Valencia – 7.5
A clear improvement from Park, he caused trouble on his right side and as usual drove in some dangerous crosses.
Owen – 8
One opportunity, one goal. New solskjaer, 0£ bargain, Fergie’s a genius, etc., etc…
Others:
SAF – 8
Cannot be blamed for his selection of Foster and Ferdinand, though its easy to say afterwards that Evans should have started in front of Ferdinand considering match fitness. Bringing Owen on was a masterstroke.
Bonus:
Tevez – 7.5
Played well in the first half, disappeared in the second. Loved the reaction of the fans.
City defence – 6
Totally outclassed, especially when dealing with wing play.
City midfield – 6.5
Solid in the first half, but again disappeared inthe second.
City attack – 9
Considering they miss two of their best players in Robinho and Adebayor, they are a sure threat going forward.
Mark Hughes – 7
Does a good job in the face of adversity. Makes his team play on its strength.
Loved the beaming smile on Sir Alex’s face while he looked ready to punch SAF when they shook hands at the end of the game!
September 21st, 2009 at 20:17
@Grognard: I can’t disagree with your analysis.The sausage has been playing “out of his skin” recently. Never my favourite player but to have improved so much from last season’s poor form deserves credit.He also deserves credit for the way he closed Judas down when he hit the post. No doubt a true world class player would have hit the onion bag but Quasi is not world class. We were superb going forward and Fletcher is becoming indispensable by the game. Our defence has looked shakey but I’m sure this can be fixed. We may not win any trophies this season but at least we are playing the United way.
September 21st, 2009 at 20:34
I was fotunate to have a ticket for the game yesterday and not getting to see United as much as I wish I could, I will be forever thankful I was in the stadium to witness the game. My friend and I travelling to the game were convinced it was never going to live up to the hype and thought it had 0-0 written all over it!!
The atmosphere outside the ground prior to kick off was fantastic, lovely hot day with stella flowing the song sang the loudest was ‘who’s that twat from Argentina, who’s that money grabbing whore.. Carlos Tevez is his name and he hasnt got a brain.. and he wont be winning trophies anymore’!!! Whilst that was being sang there was a shirt with JUDAS 32 on the back being held up and an Argentina shirt being hurled in the air. Good reception? No chance!!
Great start to the game before a typical Foster howler – you could tell no one around us has any confidence in Foster albeit appreciating he is a good keeper but has an error in him. Take that away and he will be very good but his chances are fast going. I remember his mis-kick for Watford and in the same season where Paul Robinson scoed past him from a goal kick – terrible errors BUT he was fantastic for them that season. I can see why fans are split, im still not convinced.
Park was awful, offered nothing going forward and just fouled when going back.
Everyone saw it but Giggs really was immense, that eclipsed any of his player of the year performances of last season – simply amazing for his age and seems to just get better!! Evra must take alot of credit for his help on the left side – the combo worked very weill indeed… unlke O’Shea and Park – oh dear.
Fletcher again showed why he has become so important – at only 25 he really has the best years ahead of him and whilst you may shot me down for this – future United captain? His energy just seemed to rub off on everybody and that wasnt just yesterday but also the Arsenal and Spurs games. Great proffessionl.
Rio – well he wont do that again. It was such a horrible feeling, everyone around us had our heads in our hands gutted by it. Felt sick.
I was watching Michael Owen very closely while he was on and I have gotta say his movement up front is unbelievable, he never stops getting in fantastic positions and a few times our midfield let him down by not attemping the pass through to him. His goal typified that movement, great touch great finish. He could be massive for us this season. When that went in we just went mental, i’ve never hugged so many random people in all my life….! Everyone in that stadium were lunatics when it went it so sparky cant just blame Red Nev.
Sorry for a long and pointless post but i still have a huge smile on my face
September 21st, 2009 at 20:42
Hahaha!!!
@ 12:30 in the video above you can actually see Red Nev starting a run towards the city supporters and then him running in the background (with Fergie in the foreground!).
It does seem he did want to wind up the away support a bit!
September 21st, 2009 at 20:48
@NicoQB:
The best bit is when he realises the camera is on him so he pretends to be warming up doing star jumps – even though all 3 of our subs had been used!!! legend. A city fan was on talk sport moaning about Fergie earlier saying his fists up celebration was aimed at giving the city fans the V sign, without the V…. stop moaning and talking complete shite!
September 21st, 2009 at 20:49
@Ryan: Great account there and a very fine name you have by the way!!!
September 21st, 2009 at 20:54
@NicoQB: RedNev would NEvER wind up scousers or bitters
September 21st, 2009 at 20:57
@Ryan: Pointless post? Come on, mate! That’s as relevant (and excellent) as they come.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:00
@NicoQB: Ah yes, I’d like to think I was named after the great man himself….
Its amazing my first Manchester United season review video was season 1990-1991 where Giggs made his first United start and against City and scored(ish). Cant believe how young I was then and how old I am now and he is still turning in performances like that.
Mark Hughes is the man on the cover of that video aswell…..
September 21st, 2009 at 21:02
Great derby match – Good job the ref can’t tell the time!
September 21st, 2009 at 21:03
@Ryan: Haha!
Thanks for that mate, really have to watch really hard to spot that!
Of course, back when I was in front of the telly, I was way too past gone in my crazy celebrations to notice small details like that.
And, I barely couldnt get to sleep yesterday with all the adrenaline pumping!
And watching those highlights just triggers another rush!!!
September 21st, 2009 at 21:08
@Red Ranter: Haha okay RR.
One thing I didnt mention which is amazing is the fact that people still left early to beat the traffic!! Why go to the game if all your thinking about is beating the traffic home??!
The couple next to me were late and missed Rooneys opener. They then came back from half time late and missed the 2 goals after half time. Then left the game when we were 3-2 up with 5 mins to go!!!!! I couldnt believe it! They missed 5 of the 7 goals. Unreal.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:10
@Paul(No1Fan): The ref did a perfect job in time keeping actually, most pundits and papers agree on that mate!
@Ryan: An ambassador of the game if ever there was one. Even kopites respect him begrudgingly. That must mean something!
September 21st, 2009 at 21:11
@Cyclops-Red: Quasi showed exactly why he was not kept. He is not a goal scorer and cannot be counted on in the second half of a game he has started because he flat runs out of gas. I couldn’t care less about his hard work. Yes he created the first goal by hounding an incompetent keeper but seriously, hoe often is that going to happen? He does more good causing turmoil than he does scoring goals. I have invented a new position for Teves. He is a DST, a defensive striker. A player put on the pitch to cause stress and havoc by chasing everything down. He is Hargreaves and Fletcher in the offensive end, but the fact remains, when it comes to scoring goals, he is found wanting. Like Berbatov, most of his good chances usually are aimed right at goalkeepers. One thing I know for sure is that I never started to watch this game 35 years ago so that I could watch DST’s play. I want strength, pace, finesse, skill on the ball and clinical finishing from my forwards, not hard work and imitations of flying pests. So based on that criteria, I am in heaven with the signing of Michale Owen. “Oh Mickey your so you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind oh Mickey oh Mickey”. Now that’s what they should be chanting in the stands at OT every time he scores a goal.:grin:
I have a confession to make. Although I have always disliked Liverpool, I have to say that I have always liked and admired Michael Owen. Not because he is a Scouser but because he was also a great player for England and because he was just a great player. So now I am in heaven because two of the top three Scousers in England now play for United. And frankly, they can keep Gerrard.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:13
@NicoQB: I saw it when I got back from the game either on MOTD2 or sky sports news, cant remeber which one but the had a closer camera on Nev where you could see it clearly. Might find it on youtube or something.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:14
If anyone got rapidshare to that MotD video above please post it. For posterity.
)
Or when I feel the need for a quick morale booster.
(Still got that Macheda vid!!!
September 21st, 2009 at 21:16
@Ryan: I wasn’t aware that it was Foster who was in goal for the free kick by Robinson. That actually really makes my point resonate even more. The fact that positioning might be a problem is obvious but when a keeper scores on you from 100 yards away, that is a case of poor focus and concentration. Something I have been on Foster for all season. Thanks for pointing out that howler. Just gives me more ammunition to help make my point that this lad is just not up for being the heir to EVDS. This club shouldn’t just have a world class keeper, it damned well deserves one based on history and merit. Settling for anything but world class is a giant slap in the face of the fans, the players and the history of the team.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:21
Off-topic: Obertan’s english… wow!
He’s been here for what, 2 months?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rud_S24kQw4&feature=player_embedded
September 21st, 2009 at 21:25
Michael Owen still has it folks. I have to agree 100% with Ryan when he talks about his movement up front. It’s completely awesome and when you have a strong central midfield, it can become very lethal. Fletcher has established himself, now lets partner him up with a midfield genius, an AMF with skill, vision, finesse and the ability to make the big pass all the time. Owen cannot be blamed if he is not getting the service. His entire problem at Newcastle last year was poor service and when you receive poor or no service, you stop making those big runs because in your head you start asking yourself, what’s the point? Well at United he will get the service and with the addition of a class player like David Silva,
Owen will reemerge as a goal threat extraordinaire and wake Fabio Capello up as well and make him realize that in no way in Hell, should a human slug like Emile Heskey, be keeping Michael Owen from starting alongside Rooney. Defoe is in good form right now but nobody is going to convince me that Defoe in great form is a better player than Owen in just good form. Here is hoping Owen nets 15 to 20 for us and gets his long overdue call up for England. I’m finally starting to believe that giving him the coveted #7 shirt was the right move after all. Now Fergie needs to do the right thing and start him more often.
As much as I like Berbatov, Owen is a much greater threat to opponents and causes teams to spread out too much to contain his speed and movement off the ball. This can only create space for midfielders to exploit and create room for Rooney to utilize as well. When Berba is out there, things slow down and we are not as dangerous on the counter.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:26
@NicoQB: Apparently he was fluent in English years ago. I read that a couple of months ago.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:29
@Cyclops-Red: I for one have no problem with winding up or taunting fans because they do it to player and managers themselves. Tit for tat as they say. It adds passion and emotion to the game and make rivalries and derby matches even greater with more importance. It is great for the game and fans need to have a bit more of a thick skin.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:34
@Ryan: Giggsy is a medical marvel. He has had his off days but he still tends to amaze much more than he disappoints. What I have loved about him more than anything is his balance when he is 1 on 1 with an opponent and how he can turn them inside and out with such skill and panache. I have yet to see those kinds of balance moves and changes in direction performed with the same amount of grace and control or even success from the likes of Ronaldo, Messi and other greats. Giggs is not just one of the greatest United players of all time, he is one of the greatest players of all time and incredibly consistent. With no disrespect to Wales, it would have been interesting to see him play for England back when their biggest problem was not having a great enough player on the left side to compliment Beckham on the right. A legend and soon to become SIR RYAN GIGGS. I guarantee it. PFA player of the year last season? Hell, he is playing better and more often this season.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:44
@Grognard:
I agree about David Silva, he would love playing behind Owens movement.
Im excited to see what Oberton has to offer when back from injury and also looking forward to finally seeing Ljajic and Diouf in January.
Despite the loss of whats his name to that club whos name escapes me over the summer for 80m, I think there is a lot to get excited about at our club at the moment.
September 21st, 2009 at 21:48
@NicoQB: The video I linked to is from Myspace. And there are ways to rip videos from Myspace and download them. As always Google is your friend: http://bit.ly/5KDgT
September 21st, 2009 at 21:54
@Grognard: My main worry about Foster is actually the effect he may be having on the back 4. Everyone knows when a defence hasnt got 100% faith in a keeper then that is when indecisivness sets in and errors happen.
Its a shame because there is something about Foster I like, I think he has great potential but at a club like United you dont get many chances and I feel that once VDS comes back then he may not get another chance.
September 21st, 2009 at 22:01
@Grognard: Yeah, I should have guessed so. Still not bad compared to other latin players…
About Berbatov vs Owen, I’m kinda happy with what fergie is actually doing. Berba starts, and being the better *all-round footballer* he can conttribute to us gaining a foothold in the game. Hopefully he can get his shooting boots on.
hereas Owen will always be the better finisher, so if need be, he’ll be our super sub. Or, he may start against teams that we are sure to dominate in terms of possession…
September 21st, 2009 at 22:08
@Ryan: Hehe. You’re addressing a self-proclaimed pessismist-in-the-light-of-Ronaldo’s-departure in Grognard.
I’ve always been somewhat of an optimist considering Ronnie’s departure, believeing that it would release some of our shackles much in the same way of RVN’s departure.
Let’s see what the future has in store for us… I would be happy if we can outscore last season;s number of goals scored…
September 21st, 2009 at 22:23
Anybody think like I do that CARLA seemed very confused and miserable during the game. He never really seemed to smile much even when he was celebrating with the City players after they scored. His best friends he said today are Evra, Nani, and Anderson, and I think he was very shaken that he was deserted and boo’d by our fans en masse. If I am right, his slave owners have a lot to answer for. He seemed out of place with the City team. Is this just my faulty vision, or did anybody else get the same impression. The only time I saw him smiling, was when Evra or Anderson were coming off the field with their arms around him!
September 21st, 2009 at 22:25
@NicoQB: Ronaldo is a one off, he came and we enjoyed but life and Manchester United always goes on. Rooney finally has the limelight and his favourite position back and im so happy he has made the start to the season he has. Rooney is the replacement for Ronaldo as I see it and Nani is Rooneys replacements in the wide area. We didnt need to buy to replace Ronaldo, we always had the players there who couldnt express themselves and because of Ronaldo’s role they were limited.
September 21st, 2009 at 22:27
@Red Ranter: Thanks boss.
Got some toolbar app from download.com.
September 21st, 2009 at 22:28
@Craig Mc:
I think we would all be miserable if we had to swap United for City!!
He only came out with all that crap because he was bitter about leaving the biggest and best club in the world… yesterday it must have really hit home. Chin up Carlos
September 21st, 2009 at 22:32
@Craig Mc: For some strange reason I think he was expecting some sort of God-like reception. Obviously his pimp successfully managed to convince him he could walk on water and at the same time line his pockets with £47m.
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:04
@Ryan: I agree that he has a very negative influence on the confidence of the back four. That is the whole point. When they lose confidence in their keeper, it trouble. Where I disagree with you is in the potential part. I’m sorry mate but I do not see any potential whatsoever. He has none. He is a decent shot stopper but to be a top keeper you have to have all the other necessary tools to be considered someone with potential. He is poor with his feet and positioning, slow to react. His distribution is horrible, his lack of quality judgment and aggressiveness on high balls is a major albatross around our team’s future as he will cost us many times with those errors. Even though he is a good shot stopper, he sometimes is slow to react to shots from long range (classic example is the Arshavin goal and his positioning on the Bellamy long range effort was not good although I don’t think he would have stopped it even if he was better positioned) and goes down to easily on short range efforts. Basically, i feel he is one of the worst keepers i have seen play in the Prem for many a year. I’d swap him for the Burnley keeper Jenson any day and i’d give them money on top of the swap to seal the deal. Seriously speaking, I cannot believe we have selected such a muppet to be our goalkeeper for the future and not a more accomplished and skilled keeper. This guy is even worse than Almunia who I used to feel was the worst keeper in the league.
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:22
@Grognard: Because of loan deal and his myriad of injury problems, I just don’t think we knew one way or the other on him.
He was good for Watford, and was in large part credited for their promotion to the PL. It was a long loan deal, and his subsequent injuries masked his true potential.
The odd one or two appearances for United, was never gonna tell the whole story and so this extended spell was good for all concerned.
If he continues in this error prone manner, there is no way he could fill out the shoulders of the #1 shirt.
SAF will see it as getting something out of his system, and will move on.
The scary thing though, is we have’nt seen VDS yet this year, and at his age he could well have lost something!!
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:29
@Cyclops-Red: I am so, so glad we are rid of him!
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:45
@NicoQB: This is probably what you’re looking for: http://rapidshare.com/files/282789939/MUFC.v.MCFC.mkv
And the analysis part: http://rapidshare.com/files/282794413/MUFC.v.MCFC.Analysis.mkv
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:53
I love all this talk about David Silva. He certainly could the one that could push us over the edge as far as competing in all competitions.
)
His aggressive MF presence could push us higher up the pitch and quicker at it too.
Would be good for all the team (save Carrick!
Make it happen SAF!!
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:18
@Redrich: Sadly it’s all just talk, silva has made it clear he wants to stay in Spain.
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:30
@Johnsom33: Well you’re probably right, but we can but dream.
Here’s the link to the gossip in the Mail, if you haven’t already read it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1214840/Manchester-United-set-splash-25m-Valencias-Spanish-star-David-Silva.html
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:35
@Redrich:
If true, it will be great competition for our wingers (Obertan, Valencia, Nani, Ljajic, Giggs).
But, if he plays in the Europa League will he be cup-tied for the Champions League since both are UEFA tournaments?
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:58
@Redrich: And yet, he still doesn’t know when to shut the frak up. Read this article and get even more pissed off with Quasi.
http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/27259/Tevez_No-one_is_going_to_want_to_say_it_but_United_are_missing_Ronaldo.aspx
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:01
@Redrich: The best article I have read that best follows my thinking on Calamity Ben. I especially love the way the writer saw the Arshavin goal in the exact same way I did.
http://www.epltalk.com/ben-foster-is-not-the-answer-for-manchester-united/11310
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:06
@Lars: I won’t mind such competition though…
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:10
@Grognard: The problem with this guy is he just doesn’t have any sense of what is the reality. I mean he is talking about United missing RONALDO. Agreed. No one can say that We don’t miss World Player Of the Year….
…. And thats the crux of the matter…. 
But, that IDIOT can’t understand a simple fact that no one is missing him for sure……
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:11
@Johnsom33: Actually Silva has come out in the media and has spoken about a specific team in England that has shown interest in him and then spoke about how much he respected and admired United and that he would always seriously look at playing in a league like the EPL. That for me is a not too subtle SOS to Fergie to come and get him. He has all the right skills to make a big difference for our team. He is the play maker that our forwards so badly need. Scholes is finished and Anderson and Carrick have not made the grade in that area of the game. Silva has pace, dribbling ability, sublime vision, a great passing touch with tremendous finesse and when needed, he can score goals too. The fact that he is able to play in the middle or wide left also makes him versatile. I think there is a chance Fergie will go after him come January and break his old habit historically of doing little in that transfer window because Silva’s value will shoot up if Spain do really well in the World Cup.
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:21
@Onkar: The only people who are missing Ronaldo are fans like myself who absokutely loved him and are having a hard time dealing with his loss form the side. United’s players and staff on the other hand don’t miss him one bit. It’s not that they don’t like him or appreciate what he did for them, but that ship has long since sailed and they have moved on with life. Unfortunately Carlos hasn’t and so he has adopted a new strategy since his original one backfired on him so badly on Sunday. He saw and heard with his own eyes and ears just how little he has been missed and so in order for him to continue his bitter tirade agains the club and Fergie, he now has decided to use Ronaldo as his weapon of choice. He is a sad sack mofo to be sure and I can’t help but shake my head and laugh out loud at him like so.
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:28
@Grognard: Absolutely… I think we should give some credit to the MAN as he is making sure that the smile on our faces should not fade away… So every time things go bit gloomy and slow he comes up with some or the other thing which makes us laugh on the MAN…….
TBH I really pitty him to be a part of SHITTY….
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:31
@Grognard: Yup… I think its what we generally call as come and get me plea by David Silva…
The man is great footballer…. Class is written all over his game….
I really hope we are adding him to our team sheet… It will give that bit extra to move from very good team to great team…..
And thats what we should be… GREAT TEAM…..
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:36
@Grognard: As far as missing Ronaldo is concerned I am sure that wheather people accept it or not but we are definitely missing him.. I know we are playing well for what 2-3 weeks… We are playing like old self… But, when things are gloomy and we need that little extra we always use to look at Ronaldo for that spark… I think we are well oiled and great team as whole today.. But he was that spark… Which all of miss a bit… (Specially when he scores the kind brace he scored for MADRID on the week end)…
But, the point the point is NO one is missing that Argentinean TWAT..
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:20
Just a comment on the Bellamy and fan incident. If the fan had punched Bellamy while he was being restrained by Vidic in the penalty box. Would the fan be in jail right now?
Just a thought
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:37
@Onkar: I think it’s also interesting that I read where David Villa had a bust up with his Valencia manager over the tactics they used in their last 2-2 draw. He too is unhappy and he really doesn’t seem to figure in the plans of Barcelona or Madrid because they spent their money on big name strikers already. That leaves three teams in the running for his services as I see it. United, Liverpool and Chelsea. Liverpool can’t afford him, He doesn’t fancy Chelsea or London life from what I have read so is it possible that we could be looking at a duo of Davids coming to United? Doubtful but you never know. To be honest, I think there is going to be increased pressure on Berbatov to perform and score more goals. If he goes through another season with fewer goals than what was expected of him, he may be sold to an Italian or Spanish club where the style of play suits his style much more. This would open the door for Villa I think. Complete speculation but you never know. Silva on the other hand I want to believe is a very real possibility.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:44
@Onkar: In terms of his contribution and skill set of course we miss him. But as a teammate and employee of the club, I really feel he has been long forgotten. He has moved on and so must we all. Tough to do and we can never ever expect to replace him, but as long as we have players like Fletcher and Owen raising their game to compensate for the loss, we should be competitive. Unlike others, I may have been down on the team and I still am to a point, but I do not think we need a lot to become a supper side once again. What we need is three things. A world class goalkeeper like Neuer or Adler, a world class attacking midfielder like Silva and for Fergie to wake up tactically and let the team play the style of football that so electrified us all in the second half of Sunday’s game. Play that kind of old school 4-4-2 and scrap the slow plodding and unimaginative Italian crap he fed us vs Besiktas and I think our team can be incredibly great. Two players and a tactical change. Not too much to ask for in my books/
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:38
It’s all been said hasn’t it,tremendous game,incredible, thunderous atmosphere, and two ben foster mistakes to cap it all up. Make that three, he should have done something about bellamy’s first.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:47
@Grognard: I agree.. i think as far as Striker situation is concerned I am willing to wait. I am ready to give Berba time, knowing that we have little Mickey Owen getting back to doing what he does the best. I would also like to see what Danny and Kiko will be doing in the Cup competition to take call on there chances as well. And not to forget the guy Diouf coming will wait to see and throw him against few smaller teams. So, I will keep my patience on that position.
But, as far Silva goes. Hands down need is to sign him for two reason…
1. In all this joy and all we are frogetting one thing that for three consecutive week now the man who is bailing us out of dooms is no other that Ryan Giggs. But, the man is already 35. We can’t expect him to do that every week for full season.
2. Silva would be straight forward like for like replecement for the United legend. And as long Ryan is aroung he will fullfill our requirement for CAM as well.
So, I am just crying out loud for him.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:55
I have been hearing that a conspiracy existed between Ferdinand, Foster, Tevez and ABU to get shitty and Tevez a goal and some points and in return they will get signed next year and become the highest paid defender and goalie respectively.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:25
He could have sone something about the first, obviously but Bellamy’s first goal what could he do grow another foot? maybe O’Shea should have got in Bellamy’s face instead of backing off.
With regards to the first goal it was an error from Foster, but Anderson was half asleep when he should have tracked Barry, but the error was Foster’s in the first place.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:46
@ Spizzy – seriously? Foster at blame for Bellamy’s first? You either don’t watch football or are a WUM, either way, f(ck off.
Alright, this is my very last opinion on Foster until something dramatic changes:
1. Does he possess the physical attributes to be United’s No 1: I believe that yes, he does. He’s tall, strong, atheletic and has good reactions. The only caveat here is around injuries.
2. Does he possess the mental attributes to be United’s No 1: At the moment, no he does not. But where do people think that mental strength comes from? He has barely played 10 games at our level. If we got in a German keeper, I guarantee you they’d have at least 10 games to ’settle’ into the premiership and our team by the fans. At the moment he isn’t demonstrating the mental strength of a world class keeper because he isn’t one. The only way to get better is to play, make mistakes, make game-winning saves and gel with the defense (who have been all over the place this year).
3. Is there a better option than playing Foster at the moment? No. There isn’t. Tomas will never be our no 1, he’s shown nothing to indicate he will be. VDS is injured. Amos is a kid. And we don’t want to spend in this ridiculous summer on an unproven talent. So we’re stuck with Ben at least for the moment. What I wish so desperately is that people would get behind the guy! He’s a United player, give him a damn chance!
Also, the hyperbole in here is shocking. @ Gronard – the worst keeper int he premiership? Seriously? Every goal keeper could have highlight reels of their blunders, from Cech to VDS. (note I don’t include Casillas in this – he is simply superb, and I would give anything to pry him away from Madrid). Hell, VDS’s error against Arsenal a few years back (for Fulham) was way worse than Foster’s yesterday.
Bottom line is that Foster is our keeper, so we can continue to damage his development by ensuring that every tiny mistake is fixated upon, or we can focus on giving him the chacne we afford all of our other new players.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:55
@Beachryan: Just because your a Foster fan and see his merits, and Spizzy doesn’t, no need to tell Spizzy to fuck off just because he has a different opinion on Foster than yours. Anyway, I thought responding to other posters on this blog with a fuck off wasn’t allowed by blog rules! A lot of United fans are very worried by Foster in goal, myself included. My worry though is that Ben is FAR TOO SLOW to clear his lines, and that invites players who harrass like Tevez does to win out against him. I am afraid every time he is given a back pass from our lads, because he wants far too much time to control the ball and clear the ball.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:58
@Stephen: I agree. If Wes Brown or Richie Delaet had been at right back, Bellamy would not have passed, he would have been kicked into touch.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:02
@Craig Mc: Bellamy would be still airborn if Wes was playing mate, for me O’Shea stood off him and should have got into him.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:04
@Craig Mc: Mate blaming Foster for Bellamy’s first is simply ridiculous though mate in Beachy’s defence.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:05
@Onkar: Danny and Kiko couldn’t even muster up enough fight to shove it up the arch enemy L’POO for the reserves. They have both become lazy arsed, and I can see why the Italian under 21 manager says Kiko is idle and does not put in enough effort for a lad hia age, and that he is far from ready. I agree – sorry. Because he scored one spectacular goal for us, doesn’t mean he can produce mediocre lazt ased performances for the reserves. Especially when Richie DeLaet runs his knackers off every game, 100% effort trying to get more 1st team opportunities. Welbeck AND Kiko stroll around like they have already made it! And yes I do watch ALL the reserve games.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:10
@Stephen: Still not right to tell someone to fuck off though Stephen, you would be mighty pissed if you were told to fuck off for having a different opinion on a player! You know you would mate
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:12
@Stephen:
, I agree. Take no prisoners Wes eh?
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:12
@Craig Mc: I don’t know what you are talking about
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:13
@Craig Mc: Top boy mate, true Manc lad to boot!
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:14
@Stephen: It does worry me though Stephen that SAF says that O’Shea is in possession of the right back spot now
– BIG MISTAKE!
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:19
@Craig Mc: Completly, O’Shea is a jack of all master of none great squad player but should not be seen as anything else, I am a big Wes fan.
Two seasons ago Wes was superb at right back and in my view should be our number one in that position, O’Shea has no pace, no agility, can’t cross for toffee, so all in all not a right back.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:25
@Craig Mc: Unfortunately bro… I haven’t have the priviledge of watching any of our youngster playing in researvs. As it doesn’t get telecasted in India. So can’t help it bro…
Given the circumstances, the only option I have is to judge them by the CUP competition apearences. By the way, it was not just about the dramatic goals its about the eye for goal in general…
Though anywhich way I would like to give time to our current striker rather than jumping on the gun and getting VILLA. I am more interested in SILVA though…
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:27
@Craig Mc: and @Stephen: I wonder why SAF keeps on overlooking Wes and DeLeat. Lads deserve there chances. Please use them as a starter….
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:34
@Onkar: That’s not really true Onkar mate. Tevez has come out about his hostile reception at OT, and it is reported all over the media. He said he really believed he would get a good reception, and he did from the United players and staff, but the cauldron of hostility he received from the United fans was too difficult for him, and it hurt. He said that they United fans always wanted him when he played here. Strange thing to say, because he needs us to want him, when he doesn’t play for us anymore. Man he really needs to feel wanted, even when he broke the fan/himself relationship. How he doesn’t get it, I don’t know. He has a massive ego certainly!
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:35
@Onkar: Wes deserves a start more than anyone, Richie will be great though I must say, but so will the twins in my view.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:36
@Onkar: They are both playing on wednesday I believe! Good
Mickey Owen is starting as well.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:39
@Stephen: I do so agree
. Lets start a bring back Wesley to the Rt back position 
.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:42
@Craig Mc: I am all for that bro, I would have loved to see him up against Bellamy and the Elephent Man on Sunday, thankfully my only disappointment of the day
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:58
@Craig Mc: Which position are they playing. I mean if both of them are playing then who will be playing the RB position…
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:08
@Stephen: Now you are on anderson when a every player inthe pitch was expecting that dumb keeper to save or atleast boot the ball, He is a useless keeper who cant be trusted to do even the simplest of tasks, every time the ball goes towards foster, vidic should be advised to run his ass off towards the goal line because foster may just escort the ball and watch it slowly stroll into goal while contemplating if he should boot it or pass it to a team mate.
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:12
According to reports, Wes Brown is playing Centre half partnering Johnny Evans. DeLaet one of the full back positions. I think Lil Man Nani will be on left wing, Michael Owen forward striker. Carrick will probably play with ? Gibson in MF, but not sure on that scale yet. Is Scholesy back – 2 yellows is only one game ban isn’t it? Anybody know please?
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:14
@spizzy:
, Well I can agree with you about KICKING the ball more quickly at least.
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:28
@Craig Mc: Good for Mickey Owen that he will get a full game (I hope). I have heard that even Johnny Evans is playing with pain in the anckle for some. What is the update on that.
If he is not 100% then won’t it be good to play De Leat and Wes in the center and Fabio in the RB position???
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:30
As far as I know 2 yellows means 1 match suspension. But, I am as sure as you are as well…. : grin :
But still prefer that united giving run in to Gibson as he deserves his chance in team as well…
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:43
@spizzy: Well Barry was alive to it and Anderson wasn’t, but I said it was Fosters error.
September 22nd, 2009 at 13:46
CARLA Tev bemoaning his and City’s plight again to the media
. Quote – “We didn’t deserve to lose. 6 minutes overtime is too much. I feel OBLIGED now to beat Manchester United when we play them again.” So you didn’t feel obliged to beat us this time then Carla. that is what you are paid the pocket bulging money for? Feeling obliged is one thing, actually doing it is another! Bring it on, United fans are ready – always!
September 22nd, 2009 at 14:26
@Craig Mc: If I were a City fan, and I thank my personal God that I am not, but watching him with his arm around Evra at the end of a game which we lost in injury time and laughing would really annoy me no end to say the least.
September 22nd, 2009 at 14:36
@Stephen: But if you were a city fan you wouldn’t have the wherewithal to use your fat webbed fingers to mash at a keyboard until the internet happened. They probably are, they just can’t communicate it to humans
September 22nd, 2009 at 14:37
@Traverse:
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:13
United has definitely had the hardest schedule aside from Arsenal, but last season, even with Scousers trailing, the glut of home matches in the Spring all but ensured the title. This year´s schedule is a bit too top heavy and a bigger lead will be needed by December.
Also, I love O´Shea´s passing and vision, but agree he is a bit slow to cut out crosses for an outside back. Then again, Brown is not exactly the fleetest of foot
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:20
@Elliott: Brown is more agressive and is direct in the tackle, so he can get away with playing full back but I am sure he would rather play centre back.
O’Shea really does not look like a modern day right back in any way shape or form and really is a back up centre half, Wes had a great season when played there so for me should be a shoe in until the twins or De Laet are ready to take the matle on.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:23
@ Craig MC – I apologise for the f*ck off terminology, but not the sentiment. If you read Spizzy’s comments (not just that one) you’d think that Ben Foster was also responsible for Ronaldo leaving, the credit crunch and world hunger. It’s just an absurd view, and isn’t worth addressing. He’s clearly decided that he doesn’t like Foster, I’m fine with that, but to then to blame him where he’s blameless and attribute every problem under the sun onto him reaks of immaturity or WUM.
I’m more than happy to discuss his merits logically and sensibly, but if one of his faults is not saving one of the best placed, flatest, hardest and surprising shots this year, well then we’re not going to get very far. It’s like blaming Tosic for not providing any assists for the first team this year. When he hasn’t played.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:24
Has Mark Hughes suffered some sort of brain injury? Has he been in a motorbike accident I am unaware of? I just watched him on sky news say that Bellendmy was ‘defending himself’ against that fan, and ‘was right to do so’.
Astonishing.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:27
@Traverse: Hughes has turned into a buffoon, it is that Stockport air which has messed with any sense he had previous, even though he caim out with plenty of twaddle at Blackburn.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:30
As for Wes Brown – I’m actually 50/50 on the lad. He has some good attributes: Tough in the tackle; United through and through; good in the air; strong and aggressive
But some negative ones too: Not great with the ball at his feet; not really fast enough to be a full back; injured all the time (had one healthy season, rather than one injured one!)
Anyway, my point being that I don’t see him as a truly world class full back either. He’s a centre back playing out wide. If you remember back to the Barcelona semi final over both legs their strategy was basically mark the rest of our team, and force us to play the ball to Wes Brown. Because he couldn’t do anything with it. I realise he had one decent cross all year (the final) but it doesn’t make up for generally poor attacking play, especially when you compare him to Evra.
If we want to only attack down one wing that’s fine, and he’s defensively sound, but he doesn’t provide the balance between attack and defence that Gary Neville did. I see a lot more of Neville in de laet so far.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:34
@Beachryan: I agree but feel he should hold that birth until the twins learn how to defend better and De Laet has a few more games under his belt.
Young inexperienced fullbacks get exploited at the highest level, so playing the young lads mentioned in the league cup, some FA Cup games and bringing them on late in games will give them the game time they need.
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:43
Jake Clarke the Man United fan who ran onto the pitch – go read his statement on Republik of Mankunia. What I loved was this comment{-
Bellamy quote to Jake – “Get of the fuckin pitch, you fuckin knobhead!”
. I know United have given him a life ban, and he is heartbroken about it, but he knows and we know he shouldn’t have been on the pitch. Their were two people involved in that confrontation, and we all know it was Jake and not Bellamy who is THE LEGEND. 4-3 mate, quote of the year 
Jake to Bellamy replied – 4-3 mate.
What a feckin legend Jake is – go read his statement and see what I mean. 4-3 mate, I will never forget that comeback. United fans over at Mankunia are talking about having T shirts made, signing him up to their facebooks etc, and doing an interview with him on Republik of Mankunia. That lad will never need to buy himself another pint of ale as long as he lives. Where do I buy the T shirt
September 22nd, 2009 at 16:50
@Beachryan: Beachy I don’t expect you to apologise for your sentiments mate, they are your sentiments, and as valid as anybody elses
.
September 22nd, 2009 at 18:35
@Stephen: Don’t go pointing a finger at Anderson for such an idiotic mistake by Foster. Last night I was watching my old dvd games and was watching the 1-0 FA Cup final win over Liverpool in 95 I believe. Anyway, Schmeichel got himself in the very same position as Foster. Almost identical where his defender wasn’t reacting and he had to come out that far right and deal with the ball. So what did Peter the Great do? Punted the ball up to 40th row at Wembley. That is what Foster should have done but like his footwork, his mind also works just as slow.
And although 100% of the blame for the first Bellamy goal goes to O’Shea for playing him so loosely, Foster did make one mistake on that goal. No he couldn’t grow an extra leg or become Captain Fantastic and stretch out more but his positioning was terrible. He was hugging his right post when he should have been a yeard or two more to his left to have a better angle at any shot that Bellamy tried. And even though Rio was culprit #1 for the third, the way Foster played that goal is so comical and so amateur hour that I am sitting here asking my self two things. Why is that man even a goalkeeper in professional football and secondly, what are pro Foster supporters smoking when they still have the bollocks to go online and support the wanker? Seriously, the man is a human blooper reel. Somebody the other day commented on seeing a blooper reel of Schmeichel, while stating that he made mistakes too. Ah yes and he made a dozen or so mistakes over a ten year period. Foster has already matched him 7 games into the new season. Nuff said I think.
September 22nd, 2009 at 18:44
@Beachryan: When I make comments like Foster is the worst keeper in the Prem, I MEAN IT. So if you disagree with that comment that’s fine but never assume I am just using hyperbole for shock effect. I take my knowledge of the game and especially on keepers seriously and I rate Foster that poorly. And if what we have to say about him can be so psychologically damaging to his development, well all the more reason why he is not the keeper for us. United wants and bloody demands a mentally as well as physically strong keeper who can handle game situations as well as pressure and controversy. Every keeper fouls up now and then but few make a habit of doing it nearly every game. And yes playing Tommy K right now is a better option until EVDS returns. Why because he doesn’t make the mental mistakes and is better at his positional duties. He may not have the reflexes for the outstanding save but then Foster shows that to us only in glimpses too. Quite often he is too out of position or sleeping at the wheel to make the big save. If you cannot handle the reality of what I and other others are dishing out, sorry mate. The truth often hurts and sometimes it’s tough to accept also. I suggest you learn to deal with it because Foster is on borrowed time.
September 22nd, 2009 at 18:46
@Beachryan: Also, telling others to fuck off because they do not see your DEFENSELESS support of the pratt is not cool.
September 22nd, 2009 at 18:54
@Craig Mc: O’Shea is good role player but he lacks the true confidence and aggressiveness to be a defender of the highest order. On that goal he gave Bellamy a very easy cushion of space while hoping the player went wide. The fact he didn’t wasn’t a surprise because giving any player five yards of room to move left or right of you is a no brainer really. Bottom line also is that O’Shea is a better LB than he is RB. He seems more comfortable there.
I have become sick and tired waiting for Brown to return to his form and to finally get his mysterious injury behind him. I for one still believe that it’s not an injury thing as much as it’s Fergie’s doghouse thing. I could be wrong but I want to see Wes back in the starting eleven sooner rather than later. I also want to see Richie De Laet. Either he or Wes are a better option for me than Neville or O’Shea and even Rafael right now. Perhaps we can thrown Hargo in that spot when he returns. We know he can play the position like he is Maicon. Our back four are struggling because they have no confidence in their keeper. I have seen this many many times before. The confidence given to a defense from the competence and brilliance of a great keeper who is also strong at communicating and organizing is invaluable.
September 22nd, 2009 at 18:57
@Stephen: Go back watch the video and see where he is positioned. He is not in the ideal position or in a strong triple threat pose ready to jump or dive for a ball. As usual, he was caught with his pants down, out of position and slow to react. But yes, the blame still is 99% O’Shea’s as no keeper should ever take the blame for a goal like that. But great keepers give themselves a sliver of a chance at getting a finger or palm on the ball because they are awake and in better position.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:01
@Craig Mc: They may stroll around more than you like because they are playing a slower more Italian style of play like what Fergie has imposed on the main team. Remember, Macheda is Italian and comes from a culture where traditionally strikers do not run around like Carlos Tevez. They act much more like Berbatov. As for Welbeck, he should know better. I also think the lads may feel down because having seen both Ronaldo and Tevez go, they probably felt they would get more of a show than they have been given up to now. It’s natural for young kids to then mentally tune out. I wouldn’t worry about them too much. And De Laet should be starting for us as long as Brown is still not fit.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:07
@spizzy: 100% in agreement with you mate. Trust me you have way more allies on this than those few mystery men who still believe in Foster. They kind of remind me of US Republicans who lie through their teeth and say whatever they can to destroy Obama’s health care plan. Delusional and desperate but with no case for their position whatsoever. But they still do their thing and never give up hope that they will be vindicated in the end. KEEP DREAMING JOBRONIES! Lies, deceit, anger, skullduggery, whatever it takes for all of us to see that Ben Foster is a world class Sepp Maier waiting to happen.
It is truly comical and sad all in one. I don’t what they are taking but if it would make my back pain go away, I’d become addicted to it too. Even if it left me without any common sense or good taste. 
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:17
@Beachryan: What? I heard through the grapevine and my local barber shop that the reason Ronaldo left was because Fergie told him Ben Foster was going to be our future #1. Ronaldo then got on the phone to Madrid and begged them to buy him as he felt he could no longer play for a manager that was willing to throw in the towel to our future.
Seriously mate, you have the right to support that useless pratt all you want and all the power to you. But you have no right whatsoever to tell others to fuck off and to even feel the sentiment because you are simply FLAT WRONG. Your position is simply not tenable right now. Perhaps if some miracle happens like one day Foster wakes up and looks at himself in the mirror and a goalkeeper looks back at him, then perhaps we all might jump on that lonely bandwagon. Until then, refrain from putting down others while you try to defend a forlorn position. But if you must defend a hopeless cause, be polite about it because nobody likes to have abuse thrown at them. You are too smart and to good a contributor on this blog to resort to that kind of crap.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:28
@Traverse: I have been down on Sparky for quite a while now. Simply because he is a Man Utd alumni who walks around with an aura of hatred and bitterness towards the club and towards Fergie especially. I do not know where this animosity comes from? He was like this when he was at Blackburn too. I can see a bit of a point from the perspective of Roy Keane but not from Sparky. This is why I love Steve Bruce. He always has a nice thing to say or a pleasant demeanor before and after a game towards the team and Fergie. Yes it’s about being professional and doing their job but above all, Hughes needs to remember that once United, always United and that his loyalty to his present club is one determined by nothing more than a paycheck. If that requires one to start acting like an asshole and lying through their teeth, then he is dead to me.
I used to be a huge Mark Hughes fan. And Mark Hughes owes everything to Fergie for making him a truly memorable striker in the game. Lowering himself to these antics and comments is just showing how classless he is and how hopeless his cause is. If I were him, I would look internally at his own inability to manage and ask why he has so many players suspended or pending suspension , why he cannot maintain discipline amongst that band of misfits and why his tactics were so useless and ridiculous to the point where they allowed United to take control of the second half. If Sparky is looking for someone to blame for that loss, well he hasn’t got far to go. Just look at yourself Sparky, you useless overrated git of a manager. Sold yourself and your soul to Satan, or was that a Sultan? You reap what you sew. One thing is for sure, Mark Hughes will definitely not be the replacement for Fergie at United. His inability to manage and his lack of loyalty have cost him dearly.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:32
@Beachryan: His injury history is definitely a negative but when healthy like in all of 2007-08, he was awesome. He was the best RB in all of Europe that year. Yes Maicon and Alves may have been more dynamic but none of them were as good positionally or as good defensively as him. And his crossing and decision making had really improved as well. I for one love Wes Brown but he needs to find the courage to play with a little pain because I’m sorry, whatever it is he has, cannot be so bad that it takes more than year to get over it. I mean Hargreaves may return before him and their injuries are not even comparable in terms of severity. He needs to toughen up a bit and fight through some discomfort. Some players are just not good at doing that. Louis Saha for example.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:35
@Craig Mc: Jake had no business on the pitch but yes 4-3 mate is classic. As for Bellamy, being a poor loser is really nothing new for that wanker now is it? He is a criminal right up their with modern street thugs and and perpetual recidivists. Professor Moriarty he aint.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:48
@Grognard: I can’t blame Sparky to be honest. Players and managers don’t think like fans necessarily. Also, he grew up a Chelsea fan, and a lot of his close associates say that he is more a Chelsea boy than a United one. He made his name for United, but he’s is far more real about football and tries to keep things straight as far as his football career goes.
I don’t mind him standing up to Ferguson. True his defending of Adebayor and Bellamy was ridiculous, but managers are myopic like that. I think Hughes, like a lot of ex-players/ managers doesn’t have the time to be caught up with what fans think of him, and I don’t begrudge him anything for the way he’s conducted himself. He’s the manager of our rivals, and I think it behooves him to behave in the way he has so far.
We view it from the point of fans, but I don’t think he does. So fair play to him.
He was and will continue to be a United legend as a player, and some of the abuse fans hurled at him lately would amuse him considering, as a player he was a thorough professional and gave everything. Never whined about the manager, never whined about the club etc. He’s been dignified for most part. And he recognises that fan memories can be too short which is why he doesn’t give a fuck about them anymore. I can completely understand his behaviour.
September 22nd, 2009 at 19:55
Also the whole sold your soul to Satan bit by going to City, is a tad dramatic. Going to a cash rich club like City with big budget to manage is always going to be a step up over managing Blackburn Rovers. What does one expect? Wait till Ferguson retires and hold out hope that he’ll be rolled out a red carpet welcome into Old Trafford?
Hughes did what is right for his managerial career, and I can’t understand why people get so worked up over that.
September 22nd, 2009 at 20:07
@Red Ranter: This post just made me lose a lot of respect for you RedRanter. If that sentiment wants to make you use expletives – fair enough. But I could NEVER agree with said sentiments you have posted about Mark Hughes. He will not be offered the United job, no way, and especially as SAF has a big say in his successor!
September 22nd, 2009 at 20:14
@Grognard: At least he wasn’t beating up women this time, as is his usual practice Grog. See he only hits guys too if he had golf clubs as weapons, or if the guy LIKE JAKE is restrained and can’t fight back. And Lying Bastard Hughes says that the fan was aggressive in behaviour towards Bellamy. The TV pictures tell a total different story, and show Mark Hughes for the lying deceiver he has become. United have banned Jake for life, but we know how to get him into OT, and so do most United fans. Besides as Man Utd said, they can only ban and keep track on season ticket holders. They cannot stop fans buying from other fans, or the spivs! Bellamy has got away with a warning because of spineless and testicle less FA hierarchy. Who also gave Gary Nev a warning! Bloody typical.
September 22nd, 2009 at 20:17
@Grognard: Everton are saying that Louis Saha is the all round complete striker, who has played a lot og games for them, and that he will get them 30 goals this season. Makes me wonder why United medical team couldn’t keep him fit, or did Saha give us a lot of kidology???
September 22nd, 2009 at 20:51
@Craig Mc: Of course he’ll never be offered the United job. And I wouldn’t want him at United either. So I don’t understand what you’re trying to say?
Also, you don’t have to respect me. I’m ok with that.
September 22nd, 2009 at 21:12
@Red Ranter:
Good, Good.
September 22nd, 2009 at 21:16
Speaking of shit keepers, what happens when you have a really bad keeper and an equally shit striker? This
September 22nd, 2009 at 21:17
Also, I think it’s time for people to move on to another thread. No particular reason, but just for everyone’s benefit, as newer threads load faster.
September 22nd, 2009 at 22:32
@Red Ranter: I understand what you are saying and you are correct but he still should be showing his former boss and mentor a lot more respect. Be competitive and desire beating your mentor but being an asshole in the process is completely unnecessary and shows a lack of real class. And his defending of all his players borders on sociopathic because their crimes are not just poorly timed tackles. They are acts of violence and poor sportsmanship. But then again, it’s clear to me that Sparky knows nothing about sportsmanship.
September 22nd, 2009 at 22:36
@Red Ranter: Of course it’s dramatic but I am looking at it from the point of view of a hard core loyalist supporter. Once United always United. United for life etc. You know what I mean? Nobody said I had to be reasonable about things. It irritates me greatly when players become traitors and go over to the enemy. Ince is a traitor, Tevez is a traitor, and hughes is a traitor. You need to go to teams that are not considered arch rivals of United. Shitty, Liverpool, Leeds, Arsenal and Chelsea to smaller degree are teams a former legend should never go play for or manage. It’s the principle of the thing.
September 22nd, 2009 at 22:44
@Craig Mc: Banning that lad for life is a bit harsh. Yes he was on the filed but other than that, he didn’t harm anyone or throw anything. Ban him for the season but not for life. Another example of how United have lost touch with their base. A corporate monster, cold, clinical, unsympathetic and out of touch with it’s supporters.
September 22nd, 2009 at 22:46
@Red Ranter: He still showed more mobility and dribbling skill than Foster. The striker kind of reminded me of Tevez circa 2008-09 I think.
September 22nd, 2009 at 22:47
@Grognard: I hope that GMP take action and throw the book at this no-neck thug. The FA have no bollocks so unfortunately its down to the police to sort this mess out. The dick who ran onto the pitch was dealt with so why did Bellamy have to get involved? In case he was spat on from 20 yards? Yeah, right!
September 22nd, 2009 at 23:01
Good article about Giggs performance…
But what I found more interesting was the comments, from Spurs fans, scousers, all and sundry acknowledging the class of the great one!
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,16708_5573910,00.html
September 22nd, 2009 at 23:09
@Grognard: You and I are hardcore loyalist supporters but it doesn’t apply necessarily to players and managers. It’s unreal of us to be expecting that kind of loyalty from players and managers. We don’t apply a blanket rule on players going to the other side. Ince, is a traitor not just because he moved to Liverpool, but because of his badge kissing and celebration in front of United fans — he rubbed it into us, which did it for fans.
Tevez wouldn’t have got the boos he did if he hadn’t whined his way out of Old Trafford and went about things silently instead.
Silvestre moved to Arsenal, but he still got a warm reception from United fans.
Hughes went to Chelsea but always got a good reception. And if history books are right, Denis Law continues to be a legend despite playing for City and scoring a goal that relegated us. So there is enough evidence that football fans can be reasonable. Which means we don’t always have to throw our intelligence into the dustbin, just because a player moves to the other side. Every case is subjective. Ronaldo moving to any Prem club other than us would have been unacceptable because it wouldn’t make sense. Tevez moving to City would have still not been a problem and fans would have pinned it on Fergie had Tevez not whined like a woman. And if Ruud is to move to any big four club today (perhaps other than Liverpool), I’m sure he will not get a chorus of boos.
Just saying a player becomes a villain merely by moving over to the other side is actually very simplistic way of viewing it. I’m sure had Tevez not whinged one bit, and moved to City he’d still have your sympathy.
September 22nd, 2009 at 23:11
@Grognard: Harsh is a bit of an understatement Grog. Its total bollocks from Management. A season would have been long enough! He didn’t do anything except celebrate Owens goal – though he should have kept off the pitch. Bellamy walked 10 yards to attack him, and Hughes and Bellamy have the audacity to lie thru their back teeth and say the fan spat at Bellamy, and was aggressive and Bellamy defended himself. How can Hughes keep on lying like that when the TV pictures show his lies for what they are. He is so hardfaced. He is losing every bit of respect he ever had, and its not just United fans!
September 23rd, 2009 at 0:05
I don’t know what went wrong with Saha. I was a huge Saha fan. I think our best forward partnership ever was Rooney and Saha in Ruud’s last season at the club. No doubt he’ll score lots of goals for Everton but he could just never stay fit for us. Maybe it was the medical staff, maybe it was terrible bad luck, but one thing I will say-when Saha was fit he was a class act and I would take a fit Saha over Berbatov any day. Of course the reality was he couldn’t stay fit for United and that is a shame. Looks like Hargreaves is going the same way.
I for one cannot wait till Edwin comes back. And at the end of the season I expect us to use some of the Ronaldo cash to buy a top tier striker. The obvious choice would be Neuer and I don’t care if it costs us £20 million. It is money well spent.
By the way I heard a rumour we have been taking a look at Hamsik. Anyone know much about him?
September 23rd, 2009 at 0:38
@Red Ranter: I think I agree with most of what you say…, logically and rationally. I mean there’s not mush to argue about really.
But fandom, is really not a rational pursuit is it??
I must admit that I was surprised at myself this past WE, with how tight I was emotionally wound and I think my wife gave me a strange sideways glance, when at 10am, I was jumping up and down like a chimpanzee on crack, yelling….
“STICK THAT ONE UP YOUR KAISER, SPARKY”
September 23rd, 2009 at 0:46
@colver: Hamsik is a class player mate, seen him a good few times in the past and its clear hes a top player, just needs a move to a bigger club imo to really show his potential. However if fergie really is looking to bring in a new AM then i would put the names gourcoff and also david silva who can play there above him. Its nothing against hamsik cos he is a class player but ive seen more of these 2 and i think both are ahead of him right now but then youve got to say these 2 would cost upto and over the £20m mark whereas im sure hamsik would be alot lower in value.
My personal choice would be david silva because he offers versatility, his main role is as a LM but he can perform equally as good in the iniesta role in the middle so hes a great all round player. I do hope though if were serious about strengthening in that area and silva is the player we have in mind that we bring him in january because im sure once silva has an outstanding world cup with spain his price is just going to rocket.
Same goes with a keeper too, adler, neuer, akinfeev have all been mentioned here and theyre all excellent keepers and i wouldnt mind out of which of those we ended up with, i just hope we do see a bit of business in january because with the world cup coming up as normal players values absolutely rocket and i dont want to hear the manager again going on about missing players like silva, neuer and akinfeev because he believes they arent worth the money, bring them in january and we can avoid the summer prices.
So anyway back to answer your question hamsik is a real talent and i would be happy if we brought him in because hes an improvement on what we have, but imo hes not the best option out there but im sure its all paper talk anyway.
Anyway night all
September 23rd, 2009 at 0:50
@Craig Mc: I think the FA puts a huge amount of pressure on clubs to punish offenders severely.
If a club has a record of dealing with these issues lightly, the league could impose something really severe – like a Points Deduction.
I really don’t think they had much choice, mate!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 0:57
@Matt: Someone asked earlier in the thread whether Silva would be cup tied for the CL and I’m pretty sure he would, because he’s played in the new Europa Cup.
So January would be unrealistic to sign him. Hopefully in the summer though!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:03
@Redrich: I am sure almost every fan watching the game with the wifey, sisters, mothers, gfs, or clueless americans would get a glance or two as Owen tucked the shot into the bottom corner.
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:09
@Redrich:
I completely lost the plot. Didn’t realise how wound-up I was and started behaving like some petulant school-kid. I was flicking the V-signs at Sparky as he was moaning at the fourth official right at the final whistle even though we’d won. 
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:15
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Careful there buddy, my wife’s American!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:07
Apparently no love lost between Fergie and Sparky (sound’s like a cute children’s hour show, doesn’t it!
) so no wonder at the fireworks this past WE.
I look forward to the next round, with baited breath!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:52
@Red Ranter: This badge kissing nonsense doesn’t bother me. It’s symbolic horseplay. Actually physically getting up and going to play for an enemy team is what is unforgivable, not them kissing a stupid crest on a shirt. What’s worse, Kim Philby being a traitor to his country and defecting to the USSR or him kissing the Soviet flag? When you play a long time for a team like United, you become part of the culture and the tradition. Things are expected of you both on and off the pitch and will always follow you even after you retire. I cannot get mad at a player who is no longer wanted by our club who signs with somebody else, but to sign with one of a handful of enemies is strictly forbidden in my books. And that’s what has happened here. I cannot begrudge Brucey or Keano for going after jobs to further their managerial career but those lads are United thru n thru and must therefore never ever sign to manage Arsenal, Liverpool or Shitty. It’s not too much to ask. Professionals look at things differently than the fans perhaps, but they should not be so removed from what it means to be part of this great team.
Michael Owen. Is he a traitor for having signed with us? Well some Scousers may think so because he was a Liverpool legend. But here is the thing, Rafa and Liverpool cut him loose. They didn’t want him so he went and struggled in Purgatory for five seasons until SAF came calling. As far as I am concerned, it is Liverpool that betrayed him. It’s a thorny issue but I just feel that long time players for a club need to be more understanding and sympathetic to the history and traditions of the club and to respect the club and it’s followers by always showing loyalty, no matter what. And if they take a job elsewhere fine, but never ever say a negative thing about United or our manager or players.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:01
@Craig Mc: I’d like to know what punishments others who have walked on the pitch over the years have gotten? If they all got lifetime bans then it’s simply a case of walking on the pitch. But when the lad doesn’t actually do anything to bring about Bellamy’s hostility, then I am not certain why that warrants a lifetime ban. Had Bellamy ignored him and moved on meant that the fan gets off with a slap on the wrist. It’s Bellamy who is the real criminal here and he is the one who should be banned. Had the lad spit on him or threw something at him, then that’s different. But he never did that. If I was that guy, I’d take United to court to get the ban rescinded.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:04
@Matt: Gourguff is an interesting choice because I think he could be had. Fergie has always had a very good relationship with his former CB Laurent Blanc and that relationship could pave the way for getting a player like that. But i still would prefer Silva myself.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:06
@Redrich: I don’t see how that is being cup tied if he is playing in a competition that doesn’t involve United. I could be wrong but I do not think he is cup tied unless he moves to a team that is in the competition like Villa for example.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:08
@Cyclops-Red: Truthfully, I really hate it when a former player I used to love gives me reason to just hate him. He was such a great and true player for us for so many years and now, I too just want to flip him the finger every chance I get. I never felt that way about him when he was with Blackburn.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:16
@Redrich: Pretty sad really. I also think it’s unfortunate that Fergie left early because he is the one that always goes on about drinking wine with fellow managers and being hurt if they do not stick around to indulge in a bottle with him. On that count, Fergie is guilty but it’s also very evident that Sparky is carrying some very heavy baggage along with him.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:26
@Grognard: OK, I went onto Eufa.com and they say that if you play in any Euro competition for one team, then you cant play for another team in anything other than the stupid Supercup. or whatever they want to call it.
I’m really not sure about this, but it was my take on it!
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:32
@Grognard: I think that the managers can get involved in a little extra-rational curriculum too.
It has to do with their ego’s, and of course which one is the biggest.
No wonder we fans have a field day during these battles!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:49
@Grognard: It’s not the act of badge kissing itself — it’s what it represents. It’s one thing to switch clubs (in Ince’s case he was cut loose by Ferguson and he moved to Liverpool via Inter) it’s completely another to taunt the ex-fans.
And expecting the likes of Keane, Bruce and Hughes to never manage Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea or City is too much to ask. If the United seat is not empty, you are denying them the chance to manage a very big club just so that it doesn’t blot the copybook of us fans? How is that even reasonable?
You’re argument is also a little confusing because you say, you’re ok with a player signing for another club if he’s not wanted by us, but they still should not sign for our rivals. What if he has a choice between Liverpool and Hull City? Any player in their right mind would go for a Champions’ League club.
I agree with your argument that they shouldn’t be bad mouthing the club and the manager, and on that count I think Mark Hughes has crossed several lines.
Personally, I am ok with players and managers doing what’s right for their career as long as they conduct themselves with dignity and professionalism on matters relating to their ex-clubs where they made their names.
But while I have been a bit annoyed with some of the stuff from Hughes, I don’t really have much of a problem with him moving to City. Or even Liverpool for that matter. It would have been a problem for me had there been a choice between us and one of our rivals.
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:56
@Redrich: I think in the heat of the moment every fan is prone to such emotion. And I think it’s perfectly normal for such an irrational behaviour. That’s what defines fandom. But I think far from that in a sobered up state there is room for rational thinking and logical debating (I guess this site allows for such pursuits)
As a principle I look at the circumstances/motivations which causes a player/manager to move away from our club, to form my opinions on them rather than following a blanket policy of: player X moves to rivals = BAD. player X stays in club or moves to lesser club = GOOD. That’s all. 
Again, that’s just how I look at players/managers in the game, and I’m not telling anyone that this is the best way.
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:05
@Grognard: Really??, I just love all the rivalry and banter. The passions it raises make me feel alive and aware that I’m still breathing this game.
Being a sports fan makes everyone feel love and hatred. Sometimes alternatively and quite often simultaneously. The idea of it all makes us passionate in our lives and passionate people make for a better world.
This game becomes a microcosm of our lives. Lots of failure, success, disappointment and elation. It’s what we are and what we want. The passion to succeed and the compassion for those that don’t.
You can read it in these posts, and you can see it on the pitch!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:08
@Red Ranter: I know mate, but it’s probably gonna take a while for us all to sober up!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:15
@Redrich: I think I am enjoying City’s rejuvenation under Hughes. The atmosphere appeared absolutely mindblowing from my living room. We have a real local derby rivalry which is fabulous for the Premier League as a whole. Bring em on I say.
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:22
@Red Ranter: Amen, brother!!
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:48
@Redrich: my wife is from the US of A as well. I still get made fun of/get glances when my emotions collide with footie in real time — it is not just a game, now is it?
September 23rd, 2009 at 6:12
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I guess my wife and I wouldn’t categorize Americans as clueless mate. Even if they haven’t yet become generally clued in to “the game”.
You probably mean no malice, but you should be careful with those sweeping generalizations.
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:32
@Beachryan: Stooping a bit low there, your lucky i got a thick skin and can take your juvenile comments and still laugh otherwise I’d diss your ben hoaxster loving ass so bad you’d wish you’d been aborted.
Ben foster fans are sooooo fickle it’s embarrassing, The guy makes so many errors it’s unbearable.I have heard of seeing the positives in everything, a silver lining in a dark cloud but seriously at some point, fans just have to acknowledge when a player just sucks. with ben you just know he’s going to screw up at some point. I for one I’m tired of people giving him the benefit of doubt, he is shite and the worst keeper to wear the united badge. I wouldn’t be suprised to learn he’s from liverpool, because he has excellent knee jerk reaction but when faced with a situation where he has to think of his next move, the gerbil firing up his brain just cant get the brain working. It seems as he gets his experience he seems to forget the basic’s, so minute is his brain it can’t handle new information and still keep the old.
And as long as EVDS is out, I have to suffer through his mistakes cause his supporters figure that time will eventually make him better, well newsflash, you can give him a year, even ten and he will never be good, and I can assure you ben foster just doesn’t have it in him to be a good keeper. And where is Dan, he is ben foster fan number 1, but he’s been a little quite lately
I love berbatov but if he continues with his rich goal scoring form i’ll have to denounce my love and get on his case.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:38
I can’t get Music onto my 360 Hard Drive from my mp3 disc…. Any ideas guys?
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:49
@Red Ranter: Oh I realize that what I am asking may seem very unreasonable but again I speak as a diehard supporter who sees no middle ground. For me it’s like war. There is us and there is them. They are the enemy and so you never cavort with the enemy no matter what. It’s unrealistic and demanding but I would like to see professionals exhibit the same passion for their team that us poor jobroni’s do too. I love players with passion and loyalty and they live on forever in our hearts because they blled United red for life. Cantona, Charlton, Crerand etc. Robson went out there and managed but he eventually came home as an ambassador to the club. At no time did he ever take a job that would have put him in the bad books of the United faithful. Career be damned. There are tons of jobs for good qualified managers. It’s not too much to ask ex United legends to avoid three English teams when looking for a job. And yes RR, the sky in my world is red. Never Man City blue.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:54
@Red Ranter: “Personally, I am ok with players and managers doing what’s right for their career as long as they conduct themselves with dignity and professionalism on matters relating to their ex-clubs where they made their names”
I can’t disagree with you on that. As much as I don’t like seeing our ex legends take these jobs, I am generally fine with it as long as they always pay United the respect it deserves and as long as they never put down our manager or managers to be. Hughes has issues with Fergie and that is truly sad. I am not saying it’s all Sparky’s fault. From what I am reading it sounds like Fergie has done some things to deserve his wrath as he has done the same to Keane, Beckham, RVN and other legends. But the Boss still should be respected for his greatness and for what he has meant to the game. Can you imagine former players ever managing teams and coming back to OT and acting like that when Sir Matt Busby was manager? Fergie somehow brings out the worst in people.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:57
@ Spizzy – again I apologise for the use of expletives, but your comments about Foster were so far out of right field and reactionary, they’re just not worth addressing. If you want to do more than just jump up and down in glee at his failings, then fine, let’s talk about his failings, but if you want to just make up random stories about him it’s not particularly productive.
I could care less if Ben Foster ends up being our number one, certainly it doesn’t look like he will. But I’ve almost never seen the level of criticism levelled at a single player before. Maybe he’s not United quality. Good lord the number of young players that we’ve said that about over the years. Obviously this site was around, but would Patrice Evra have been slaughtered like this for his debut? How about the years of mocking Fletcher has had – only there because he’s Scottish? Fans are always fickle I know, but I just can’t work out why, even if he’ll never cut it at United, people are digging into Foster this way. Maybe its a goalkeeper thing…
Anyway moving forwards, we’ll just have to wait and see who our number 1 is in January/May. At the moment I expect it to be Edwin, but maybe Fergie will sign in January, assuming the transfer market has closed down.
Does anyone else think that waiting this summer was a brilliant move? With all the news around Madrid’s debt, coupled with Chelseas ban and Cit’ys general unplesantness, if we have £50m to spend we could be the best destination in the world next year for some new talent.
Oh and for those obsessed like me, it’s now the 23rd of September, ie, the date Fergie said Hargo as back in training. I’ll believe it when someone shows me photos.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:58
@Red Ranter: What gets me is when managers call modern day players mercenaries. Then they get a job offer and do the same thing. It is important for fans like myself to pinch ourselves every so often and realize that at the end of the day it may be a passion and a way of life for me and other supporters, but for players and managers, it is still first and foremost a job that pays big money. And as much as it hurts me to see players leave and sign with other teams, deep down inside none of us can begrudge anyone from making a living. Perhaps if they paid us supporters to stay loyal to our teams. But then again why would they. We’re so daffed and loyal we will do it for nothing anyway.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:06
@Redrich: Gosh Batman, when you put it like that.
Yes you are right. It’s the straw that stirs the drink and what makes things truly exciting. I for one was never as worked up about Liverpool games having not been brought up in Manchester. But having to tolerate that ass clown Rafa and having developed a great dislike for him has made the Liverpool and United rivalry finally really resonate for me. Up to then I still felt that the real rivalry that mattered to me being a Canadian was always United vs Arsenal. City were a non entity or the quiet little neighbor. So Derby matches or historic rivalries never meant as much to me as the two best teams in the league playing each other and hating each other. For over a decade I have loved Ferguson vs Wenger, Vieira vs Keane. For me nothing will ever replace the buildup, hype and drama I felt before the FA Cup semi final replay of 1999. And that win with the wonder goal from Giggs is what its all about. Not watching a useless derby between United and it’s hopeless little wannabe neighbor Man Shitty. At least Rafa has made United vs Liverpool interesting again.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:11
@Red Ranter: It’s great for the game because it has finally given meaning to the derby. For decades it’s been the have’s vs the have nots and that has been boring. Now City are contenders with grand ambitions and it has made it a big event on the calender. I mean, since I have been a United fan I have never ever looked forward to a Manchester Derby. Why should I. I am not from Manchester and City for me has always been a second division team that seems to always do enough to survive relegation. But now things look to hot up and it means a lot of fun down the road. And truthfully, although it’s sad, the feud between Fergie and Sparky seems to make it even greater and more attractive. Oh yes, and there’s that Tevez fellow too. He really gets under all our skins.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:19
@[OPTI]Madschester United: For the last 35 years I have looked around North America’s sports scene to find the sport or the team that would bring back my passion and my childhood. I love baseball but that never did it. I love the NFL but that never did it. My childhood passion for the Boston Bruins and Bobby Orr has always been the greatest memories of sport that i have and the memories I cherished the most up until the time I really became a hard core Manchester United fan. Yes I have been a fan of the club since 1976 but my true passion began when the Premier League began. Since then the thrill this sport and this team have given me so outweighs all the sports in North America combined. There is still an honesty and reality to the game of footy that the glossy NFL, NBA and MLB cannot compare to. Something about the game and it raw passion and ability to emote every emotion out of your soul is truly something special. Nothing compares to United when it comes to bringing the little boy out in me. Last Sunday’s game made me feel totally alive and made me realize and remember why I was a football fan to begin with. I wish that Fergie would also feel that way and that he seriously decides to scrap his Italian experiment of the last two years that have slowly but surely taken the fun, the thrill and the passion out of the game and out of me.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:28
@spizzy: Well said mate, well said. It’s time for all Ben Foster fans to wake up and see things for what they are, You cannot make gold fro salt. Try as you might, it just won’t happen. SOme of these stubborn and fickle fans have something I truly loather in people. It’s infinite patience. I detest infinite patience. Life is too short to be wasting time and space on an experiment gone wrong. Why do I want Manuel Neuer or a keeper like him? Because I want results right frakken now. And that sad truth is that even if I had patience, in the end, Foster would still never reward me because he frankly has shit for talent. Fergie has seen the future and the future does not include this stiff. He was fair to him and he gave hi a chance but he now realizes that the lad is a waste of time. Time to move on.
As for Dan not commenting, I don’t know why he is being so quiet but if I were him, what would I have to come in with and use for ammunition supporting Foster? He knows he has no case for his love and faith in the player, therefore why bother.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:30
@Darth Red Diablo: You need to finalize the disc by formatting it. It needs to be finalized on your computer so that it will play on other machines.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:45
@Beachryan: Goalkeepers are viewed through the looking glass. Every little move of theirs is scrutinized and is magnified ten times over. Often keepers are thought to be good as Foster was because they make a lot of saves for bad teams like Watford. In reality it is much harder to play goal for a very good team because you spend most of the game doing very little. You have to be very mentally strong with great focus and have the ability to react and recognize situations better when on a good team. Being peppered with shot after shot often makes very mediocre keepers look like world beaters. But in games where they do very little, all of a sudden the fundamentals of focus, concentration, positioning, footwork and distribution play a major role. There are many keepers like Given and Jaskilinen etc who are seen as good keepers because they are great shot stoppers with strong reflexes. But given showed on Sunday just how ordinary he is. He made many great reaction saves but was found very wanting on high balls crossed into the box. Foster is a good reaction save keeper. He is very poor at everything else. If he had only one or two weaknesses, I’d say maybe in time he can work on improving them, but his overall game is so flawed that I truly ask myself how in God’s green Earth has he managed to make it to the elite Premier League and to be keeper on the best team?
Every muppet on the planet should feel a rush from this and feel that they too can overachieve and make it in their respective fields even if they haven’t got the skills to excel. Ben Foster is not just a poor keeper mate. He is a terrible keeper. I have watched this game for over 35 years and i have taken the effort to study the art of keeping especially. I have had the privilege and good luck to be able to watch the greatest keepers play many many games. From Maier, to Schumacher, to Shilton, to Schmeichel, to Zoff to Kahn, I have seen them all and they have taught me what it takes to be great at that position. It took Schmeichel an entire career to accumulate enough gaffs in one blooper reel to equal the same number of gaffs that Foster has committed in 7 games this season. Please tell me, when is enough enough? How long must the experiment go on before you and some others finally clue in to what the whole world already knows? Why is it so important for you and a few others to show such loyalty to this player when he clearly hasn’t got the ability to be our #3 keeper yet alone our #1? When do we end the debate and move on? I cannot wait for the day EVDS returns. Hell, I’m hoping PIG plays the game of his life tomorrow and makes Fergie consider playing him instead of Foster.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:53
@ Grognard – All fair points, and I have to say I’m beginning to agree. At first I was happy to attribute his mistakes to nerves, which is exactly what you’d expect from a first time keeper at United, but there have been so many in such a small space of time that he looks like a flop. Again, I have no problem with saying that he’s not class, but I just don’t like the knives out approach to him! Especially as every time Tomas plays I’m terrified, and VDS is out.
I agree that goalkeerps are massively underrated, particularly for big teams, as their concentration, organisation and general fear factor help shape a defence. Kahn was legendary for this, as was big Pete. I thought Cech was going to become a modern day great, but he’s just never been the same, not as commanding since having his head cracked (fair enough!). I trust your judgement on Adler and Neuer as I don’t see them enough.
If Neuer was keen (as the press indicated a while back), how nice a transfer window could we have next summer? A happy Silva and Neuer? That would be simply drool worthy…
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:02
Time doesnt exist at Old Trafford does it.
I believe Giggs just scored the 5th goal 5 minutes ago.
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:10
@ Idopas – Sorry was that humour?
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:30
@Beachryan: They did that on talksport yesterday…
“BREAKING NEWS : Ryan Giggs just scored, it’s now 5-3″
September 23rd, 2009 at 11:36
A-ha! I see what they did there! Clever rapscallions…
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:41
@Grognard: It was Fosters mistake which i said, but Anderson was asleep and should have tracked Barry who was alive to the incident, and I wasn’t “pointing the finger”.
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:46
@Grognard: No keeper would have saved that, simple.
September 23rd, 2009 at 15:15
@NicoQB: I like this one “Manchester United 18 titles Liverpool 18 titles Arsenal 13 titles Ryan Giggs 11 titles Everton 9 titles Here’s to Ryan Giggs, the 4th most successful club in english history!!!”
September 23rd, 2009 at 15:47
Wolves preview up.
September 23rd, 2009 at 16:07
With regards to Foster there seems to be “you are rather in or your out” mentality, surely this should not be the case, the lad on Sunday fundamentally had a stinker and not even the ardent fans of Fozzy can say he didn’t. But looking back on his performances this season and considering he has only played a handful of games was Sunday forgivable?
Lets try and rationalize the situation, all goalkeepers have made mistakes and by the nature of the mistake these are always howlers as they are the last line in defence, this does not forgive or forget Fozzy’s lapses on Sunday by the way.
I have seen many poor keepers at United in my supporting life, Carrol, Taibi, Ricardo, Goram, Bosnich, Leighton in his latter year and Kuszack gives me heart problems every second he is between the sticks.
Foster has in games made some great saves but also has made errors, the mistakes could be simply down to him not being good enough I understand peoples views but there could be other factors.
The defence has been choppped and changed quite a lot and for a inexperienced keeper who needs to bed in this surely cannot help him, he has only played 7 games and 3 were clean sheets.
In his defence he has a great kick and moves the ball out well to fullbacks and such like, but also seems to be all left foot and suffers from confidence or he beats himself up too much when he makes an error, something that Schmeichel would never do regardless of the mistake being glaringley his.
EVDS’s form last season was shakey to say the least and probably should have been his last season, so Fergie in my view was right to have a look at Ben Foster as no point in spending if the long term solution is already under your nose.
Saying any other keeper coming in would “certainly” do better is a fallacy and nobody knows that to be true, playing for United is a big deal and lots of players like Barthez couldn’t handle the pressure and was a total liabilty when he wasn’t going off injured at half time.
The fact of the matter is that we should not write him off, but on the flipside he has a lot to prove and we are not going to bring in anyone else until at least Jan and even then that is very unlikely.
My personal take on the lad is that he has ability, and he has proven that already and saying he is the “worst” keeper in the league is not even true Almunia for one is awful, he for me is lacking confidence which is one of the most important aspects of the make up of a World class goalkeeper, so maybe he is a top goalkeeper but not at OT, like James and Fridel who could not handle it at Liverpool but went on to be very good elsewhere.
But one thing is for sure he will get more games and would not be suprised to see him play tonight, to get him straight back out there knowing Fergie I know I would.
I never want any player not to succeed at United, I dislike all the abuse certain players and the manager get form some people and find it unnecessary and simply very short sighted, I for one will be cheering the lad on and cross my fingers for him as he seems to be a top lad, lets hope he will be a top keeper.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:16
@Beachryan: Neuer and Silva would be sublime business indeed. I still think that we might just get Silva in January because I believe a player as great as that and as expensive could have his price skyrocket after the World Cup. For me it makes more sense and is good business to buy him in January to avoid the hike up in price that a great performance in the big tournament would bring. I think Fergie knows this and if Silva is not injured or still in good form, I think we could see a surprise big name purchase in January.
As for Tomas, I think it’s a little unfair to feel nervous about him being out there considering he does not make the mental mistakes that Foster makes. He may not have the shot stopping skills or reflexes of Foster but i personally think he is an OK keeper and a decent backup. I would never prefer him in goal over EVDS but right now, I honestly would prefer John O’Shea in goal over Ben Foster.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:19
@Stephen: It’s Fosters fault all the way mate. It should never had gotten to Barry in the first place. It should have been punted up to row 50 by Foster. Where Anderson is really to blame is on the play that Tevez hit the post. He allowed Toure of all people to just dribble and drive by him and never made any attempt to block his path or take the ball away. The defensive part of his game really lacks refinement. He needs to learn how to get position on a player and how to take him out of the play.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:22
@Stephen: Probably not, but that does not take away from the fact that yet again, his positioning was poor. I have seen top class keepers make saves on even greater shots than that. Not because they are super human, but because they are always on their toes and in top position to make and effort at it. In fact, I have often questioned Foster’s positioning on goals we have given up as well as close calls. Frankly, it’s awful.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:24
@Grognard: I have said it was Fosters fault pal and never have said anything else, it was more of an observation with regards to the follow up that Anderson was caught napping when Tevez stole the ball from him and Barry was alive to the situation and Anderson wasn’t, I was not passing on the blame for the mistake onto the Brazilian.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:27
@Grognard: I can’t blame him for that goal at all, but would question why O’Shea failed get into Bellmays face which gave the the little twat time to score the goal.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:29
@Stephen: He is lacking confidence because his own actions have shattered what little confidence he had. Your opinion is noted and I respect it. I cannot however agree with it because it speaks of what I have been saying earlier that if you are in Foster’s camp you are the kind of person who is very forgiving and incredibly patient. Good for you mate, just don’t expect everyone else to be like that too. Life is short and football seasons are even shorter. We are Manchester United, not Watford or Wolves. We don’t have three years to wait on a goalkeeping project while we allow him to throw our trophy quests in the crapper with every start.
The sooner EVDS comes back the better and then we must seriously look for the ultimate replacement to Eddy because it is not Foster. Yes United have had numerous bad keepers over the last ten years. And where are all of them now? None stayed because Fergie thinks more like me and less like you. We have no time to give a keeper while our season hangs in the balance based on his inability to catch crosses, distribute passes and make the simple raw fundamental decisions that John O’Shea can make when playing goal.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:32
@Stephen: Agreed, he was caught napping but no player could ever have assumed that his keeper would perform such a lame brain howler as to give the ball away like that. Yes he is guilty but he is not charged because he was just an innocent bystander to the crime that Foster performed in my opinion. I’d like to be as fair to Foster over the Rio gaff but the way he played Bellamy was just awful. That was the moment that made me realize that this lad was truly an awful goalkeeper incapable of making solid smart spur of the moment decisions.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:34
@Grognard: I agree with your points but is seven games enough time to judge him on?
and VDS was not exactly safe hands last season, if we brought in a new keeper he would be given more time than Foster has that is for sure and rightly so, I agree we cannot start to throw games away if his form continues in this vain, but PIG for me is no better if not worse than Foster.
I am not that patient mate
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:35
@Stephen: Again, I wasn’t happy with his footwork and positioning on the goal but yes, he cannot be blamed for that as it is 100% O’Shea’s fault. On that we agree. I am just looking at Foster on every play and it amazes me how bad his concentration, focus and positioning is. That’s why I bring up that point. He had 0% chance of stopping that ball where a Buffon, Casillas or Neuer may have had a 15% chance based on their solid positioning skills and concentration.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:36
@Grognard: I agree I felt he could have done better with Bellamys second, he was caught in two minds instead of being decisive one way or the other, but Rio should have been fined four weeks wages for that.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:38
@Grognard: I think simply his confidence has gone, and playing in goal for United you cannot allow that to happen.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:43
@Grognard: It Doesn’t work….
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:46
@Stephen: Seven games for a keeper is more than enough. Like i said earlier, keepers unlike any other position are looked at under the looking glass and focus on their every moves is scrutinized. Remember Massimo Taibi? He made one mistake and was shipped back to Italy. Foster has been so underwhelming that his mistakes are just too numerous to mention. Don’t just look at the goals he has given up. Every game except one has had at least three major errors by him and he has been lucky many times to not get punished by his gaffs. Keepers are on the firing line, especially at this level mate. United haven’t got the time or extravagance of a healthy lead to be patient with a goalkeeper who continually makes games an adventure for them.
Consider this. We outplayed Man City so badly but we beat them with a miracle at the end 4-3. Had it not been for Given’s heroics and Fosters’s blunders we should have won that game 6-1 or 7-1. What kind of message would that send to the rest of the league and what kind of a confidence boost would that have given the squad and especially Fergie on the tactics we used? But instead, we squeak through a game we completely dominated. A game where we had a dozen excellent chances to score and where City was gifted two goals from incredible gaffs by our goalkeeper twice and Rio once (remember that on the second Bellamy goal, Foster played him like 10 year old kid in goal). Our defense is lacking confidence because our keeper is useless. And it’s going to be like that until EVDS returns. Do you honestly think Fergie is going to continue experimenting with Foster after what he has seen? The man is 69 and has a few years left. He wants to win in Europe and break the tie with Liverpool for championships. Do you think he is going to continue to wait and see if Foster all of a sudden comes good? The lad is not good enough. All the time in the world isn’t going to turn a frog into a prince.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:50
@Stephen: Hell I’d bench Rio for that mistake. The only reason I think twice is because of his long layoff and rust possibly contributing to it. I was also distressed with he fact he couldn’t keep up with Bellamy. I know Bellamy is very fast but before his injury, so was Rio. At his age he has either lost a step or his injury is still not healed and he is working on his fitness. But as bad as his mistake was, when I saw the way Foster played that, I was more upset with Foster. That’s the time when I want a world class keeper to be present. When our defense screws up and he is the last bastion of defense.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:52
@Darth Red Diablo: It could be the kind of disc you are using. Is it a DVD-R or CD-R? If so, I don’t know what else to tell you not being there. However, if it’s DVD+R, that is probably the reason.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:53
@Grognard: No… It’s a CD-R… Mp3… Problem is that the 360 doesn’t rip it to the hardrive!
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:55
@Stephen: Exactly. United are top club constantly playing vital and important games. We cannot wait out a keeper’s confidence and performance problems unless it’s a keeper who has been great for a long time and is going through a slump. Schmeichel went through one in the late 90’s but Fergie was patient with him because frankly, the man was a goalkeeping God and had proven himself. If Foster is a future goalkeeping God, he needs to show it now, because his window of opportunity is about to be slammed shut for good.
September 23rd, 2009 at 18:59
@Grognard: I agree his time is running out and if he is ever to be our number one he needs to a run of games where he is better than faultless.