Nov 28
United Get the Job Done, Just
I will be very brief, and apologies for those expecting something elaborate. Pressing issues, setting the house in order are just some of the minor things that need to be addressed in the offline life. So short posts will be the order of the day for the moment, at least.
Right. So we move top of the table for sure. Which means we can field our Carling Cup XI against Roma and rest the lads so that they stay fresh for the Liverpool game played three days later.
There wasn’t too much to talk about the game. Well, there is a lot to talk about, but due to reasons mentioned above I can’t be elaborate. So I will present this match report in bullets:
- We were terrible in the first half and much better in the second.
- We hardly managed to string passes properly and Sporting Lisbon deservedly took the lead as well as shaded us in possession
- Their goal was due to an error by Tomasz Kuszczak. And I have to say, Abel actually went for the shot rather than trying to cross it. No excuses for not blocking a shot that went to the near post.
- It is a little harsh on the Pole, but in the time that I’ve seen him, he is a good shot stopper, but his ability to command the area and decisions making remains dodgy.
- Anderson had a poor first half. And not too better second although he did get more space in the second and sent in quite a few long range passes.
- Carrick was much better than he was against Bolton. Although that would be an improvement from Appalling to merely Disappointing. Nonetheless he is getting games, which means he will get better hopefully.
- Nani just kept finding new ways to give the ball away. I know he’s young and all that. But someone needs to beat some sense into him. Perhaps it’s his rather poor decision making ability. He should get better hopefully.
- It was little wonder then, that Tevez’s and Giggs’ introduction gave our team some teeth in the attacking third. At times it appeared as if Tevez was the only one who wanted to get the win. His goal despite the tap in from close range was well deserved for his efforts.
- Ronaldo hit a free kick that actually curled! Can someone believe that?! It is likely that we wont see Owen Hargreaves taking free kicks again for another ten games. Which is sad.
- In conclusion, I’d say the win was fortuitous. I’d expect better in future. But we got the result, so we’ll rejoice in our topping the group. Hopefully it means we don’t have to play Arsenal or Liverpool; I am not sure if UEFA rules prevent clubs from same leagues draw each other in the round of 16 itself.
End of report. Discuss.
Cheerio.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Quiet Monday Roundup
- Fletch Wants To Stay. Do You Want Him?
- Why Carlos Queiroz is More Important than Ronaldo
- Keegan ‘I’d Love It’ Returns To Geordie-land. Heh!
- Newcastle v Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Match Reports
November 28th, 2007 at 10:36
can someone post the highlights of the game???
November 28th, 2007 at 11:04
Try this link for the highlights.
http://www.humsurfer.com/manchester-united-vs-sporting-lisbon-21-goal-highlights-champions-league
November 28th, 2007 at 11:16
United cannot draw any of the English clubs in the Round of 16, so Liverpool or Arsenal are not likely to be our next opponent. The most likely opponents could be either of the Old Firm clubs (if both get through), or Lazio. The best draw would be Rosenburg
November 28th, 2007 at 11:37
UEFA do prevent teams from the same league playing each other in the round of 16. We can only play the others from the quarter finals on.
November 28th, 2007 at 11:57
Highlights from the game: http://rapidshare.com/files/65131792/Man_United_v._Roma.wmv
It’s good to see Saha and Carrick get a run of games, they really need it. Don’t know what has happened to Nani lately, he’s been awful the last couple of games. Ronaldo man of the match for me, but credit to Tevez and Giggs who changed the game.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:10
* I think Anderson had a good game. It was the rest of the team that had a bad game.
I also think that he has settled enough into the club and made himself invaluable enough to start shooting now. The only dissapointment I have of him is that he does not seem to WANT to make the runs into goalscoring positions. I know he’s still young.
* From Abel’s body-language during the shot, I also believe he went for a shot. Brilliant shot, brilliant vision.
* Carrick I thought had a good game. It seems like the “deeper” position suits him well. He can cover well and also have the occasional long-pass which is so nive to behold.
* It doesn’t seem like Nani are coping well with the pressure of being a ManU player at the moment. I think we expect a bit too much from him and need SAF to bleed him in for next season.
* Saha… well… I’m just glad he did not get injured. Funny thing though…when he went down, I felt a bit anxious, but when I saw him holding his face (in pain), I actually felt GLAD and relieved. Imagine that…like feeling glad for someone in pain.
He had a terrible game. I think he’s having confidence issues. I wonder how much SAF’s statements of making him a super-sub has had an effect on his confidence?
* I loved the win, and loved Ronaldo’s free-kick, but whished it didn’t happen. I don’t wnat him taking free kicks. Oh well, like you said, we now have to wait for another 10 or so games to see either OH or Tevez taking free-kicks.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:53
def the intro of tevez not giggz gave the game some teeth. sometimes u only wonder where that will and desire to win goes to.
to put nanis perfomance in simply words..poor..anderson was okay he jus needs to shoot at goal..
carricks perfomance improved from that one for sat, unless OH plays in a diff position like yesterday. they cant play in the mid togerther,so it should be either carrick scole/anderson or OH scholes/anderson
November 28th, 2007 at 13:09
@ Red Ranter… Yeah clubs in the same league can’t play each other in the last 16, only after that.
Though regardless, I doubt liverpool will top their group, let alone qualify… And Seville are on top of Arsenal anyway.
So we all supporting Porto tonight, right?!!!!
Haha and Marseille in two weeks time!
November 28th, 2007 at 13:13
The ball that Anderson played for Hargreaves was amazaing!!
His left foot is brilliant and I really can’t wait for him to start shooting and using his pace and skill…
A real gem… He’s gona be somethin else…
November 28th, 2007 at 14:46
Anderson’s weakest position is when he has the ball in a shooting position. He never shoots and my expectations of him are so high already that I get really frustrated when he gets the ball just outside the box and tries to pick out one of the wingers with the ball. That pass for Hargo was fantastic though…
November 28th, 2007 at 17:45
Ranter who cares who we face to be the best we need to beat the best with a bit of luck Iwould realy be optimistic aboutwinning the champions league
ps I cannot see any team in the world that can match us and nobarcelona aren’t a team
November 28th, 2007 at 17:56
and guys lay off nani he is doing better than ronaldo when he first came so don’t forget his goals against totnham and midlesborough he is a gem that’s one I can truly see Anderson well what a player he is another gem veloso being a huge talent however is not needed carrick is not going to be sold he is a very good player just needs to get a bit of consitency in his game and to finish off Saha is the only player that I am truly disappinted with we may need to bring in another striker if he continues to miss chances like he did yesterday
November 28th, 2007 at 18:24
Shera thats what people always say if there is a chance their team will finish second, as fabregas did today, and often managers say that to keep confidence high, but as you said we will need luck to win it and so playing against weak teams would be a form of luck. I’d much rather play porto than Barcelona, or AC Milan, and we won’t necessarily need to beat any truly great teams if we’re really lucky, Porto’s only really hard game was against us.
November 28th, 2007 at 19:01
I mean seriously people, after what you just saw yesterday, who would you prefer playing next to Hargo, Veloso or Michael F$%&@@g Carrick? All you Carrick wishful thinkers just make me barf. How many games does the guy need to play to finally make you all realize that as far as playing for United the man is total crap? Veloso was outstanding yesterday in terms of his defensive output. He is just what the doctor ordered. As well, he would be an ideal backup for any CB or Evra as he has played all those positions in the past and played them well.
And as for Nani, he definitely had a poor game but because of his age and inexperience playing with us in such a big stage we need to show patience with him. Remember, that Ronaldo took two years before he really started to impress us without making selfish boneheaded mistakes. Nani is still in early development and is not in the same situation as Carrick who is far more developed. Much more has been expected from Carrick and he clearly hasn’t delivered often enough.
Also, Giggs showed one thing yesterday. That he has turned in to a super-sub himself. Clearly he is not a 90 minute player anymore but give him short bursts, and he can impress. Tevez for me is our super-sub of the future if we go sign a big name striker. I have no problem with him starting but he really injected energy and hunger when he showed up as a sub. Certainly Louis Saha has not shown us that kind of confidence, hunger and desire to go for a ball.
As for Ronaldo’s unRonaldo like free kick. Chalk it up to the power of criticism. He is starting to realize that his old approach is not used by any of the worlds best at that discipline. And if he was hoping to keep that role, he needed to adapt. That said, Hargreaves and even Tevez are far superior at taking free kicks. Hargo seems like a revelation to many of you but I have watched him for years with Bayern and believe me when I say he is an outstanding free kick taker from the right or center areas. Let Ronny or Giggs take the ones that are left of center.
November 28th, 2007 at 20:06
Grognard: What does Carrick have to do to get someprops from you. He had a good game yesterday, especially when chicken head Fletch was taken off. Some of his passing was sublime. No? Or have I got rose tinted specs on…
November 28th, 2007 at 20:54
Grognard u picked the wrong game to bash carrick coz yesterday he was brilliant.i didnt see veloso do anything to be honest.apart from his shot and his handballs.i still think carrick aint good enough to START maybe a sub
November 28th, 2007 at 23:19
Taehr: Carrick was not brilliant yesterday, he played well but not brilliant. I think Grognard is a little over the top with his critism of Carrick but when he say’s he is not United class then I think he has a point. He is an average player and always will be, he will never be good enough to be first choice in our midfield but is certainly a good squad player. Veloso does look a good player and if he does come then someone will be sacrafised and it wont be Hargreaves, Scholes or Anderson. With Fletch being such a willing squad player maybe just maybe Fergie would look at selling Carrick but after spending 18m on him and being such an important player last season I cant imagine he would. We shall see….
I think a striker is more important and the more I think of Anelka in a united shirt the more excited i get, he could be just what we’ve been looking for. I’d never have thought i’d say that about the incredible sulk!!!
November 28th, 2007 at 23:25
Carrick may have had a GOOD game yesterday as some of you say, but the lad is not United QUALITY. In attack he is not near as talented as Anderson, and look at the age difference. And in DMF he can’t defend near as well as Hargo (OR Veloso for that matter). This guy may be GOOD, but he should not start ahead of any of these players. I can see him as a sub, but no way should he start when Anderson and Hargo are fit.
November 28th, 2007 at 23:34
Grognard, I like your thoughts on Tevez being a super-sub. Personally, I haven’t liked the idea of not having an out-and-out striker this season, and I think that we could really use one in our line-up. I was actually opposed to having Tevez join us in the summer because I thought we needed someone like Torres or Huntelaar, I thought Tevez was too much like Rooney, as did so many others. Turns out I was a little wrong, and Tevez and Rooney CAN play together, and quite well at that. But I still feel we need a real striker, not just two supporting strikers (and we all know Saha isn’t going to cut it) and someone who has an aerial presence, for all those crosses we’ve been hitting into the box lately. I think if we got an out-and-out striker, such as Huntelaar or Anelka (preferable Huntelaar in my opinion), Tevez would be a great super-sub. Also, we’d be able to rotate our strikers a bit more than we can now and keep them fit. The only problem is Tevez might want a permanent starting position, and he could become unsettled.
November 28th, 2007 at 23:55
Kurt we don’t need an out and out striker, many teams play well without one, it would be great to have one but if you’re telling me that Anelka or Huntelaar are better players for this team and style of play then I disagree. I think there is a good chance that Anelka will come to us and I’m all for it, but Anelka firstly isn’t a better player than Tevez and secondly is a better super sub. Think about it, bring Anelka on, there’s a high chance we’ll get a goal, bring Tevez on, better work ethic but is less likely to make a real impact, and i’m basing this on the fact that Anelka will bring pace into the team and so can take advantage of tired legs. Also, if we plan on dropping Tevez then he could easily just up and leave, we haven’t actually permanently bought him yet and evn though the fee is in place he could just turn us down and leave for nothing.
November 29th, 2007 at 0:28
Ok lets sort out the Ronaldo free kick nonsense. He IS our freekick taker because he is our best. He practises, he scores in training – he even scores in matches sometimes. Now I, like all you, only see his efforts on a matchday, which have been hitting the wall rather a lot this season. Ferguson and Quieroz see his strikes in training and he remains on FKs because he is still the best. Get over it people.
November 29th, 2007 at 0:44
Conor; bringing in a sub isn’t just so that he scores a goal. Quite often they inject new life in to a team while their energy and desire to perform lifts the rest so a goal may come from somebody else. Tevez’s injection of desire yesterday and his play was outstanding and I’m not even talking about his lucky goal. He helped wake United up from their slumber.
Kurt; I agree, we need a target man and a true goal sniper. Tevez will still get plenty of opportunities to start as he is capable of playing numerous positions and thus giving a number of players a rest. He would start as a forward 30% of the time as it is time that Fergie also started resting Rooney one out of every 6 or 7 matches.
Just1n and Taehr; Sorry but you both are wearing rose tinted glasses. Carrick was far from brilliant. He was down right mediocre. It sure doesn’t take a lot to please you fellows. What’s for dinner tonight, Kraft Dinner, bread and a glass of water? Carrick is BLAND BLAND BLAND and BORING as Hell. Oh and did I mention he is BLAND? You two clearly have a glass half full mentality when it comes to Carrick. I on the other hand don’t have a glass half empty view. For me the glass fell out of my hand and shattered on the floor.
Carrick is a massive and very expensive failure. If Fergie can unload him back to Spurs, he will because that will also fund his purchase of a top line Striker. Who knows, Berbatov or Defoe (I hope it’s not Defoe) may come back to us in the deal. Sorry but you will not be seeing me cry the praises of this useless midfielder anytime soon. He clearly is a cut below what is expected at United from a front line starter and his price is over evaluated to stay as a sub. At least poor Darren Fletcher knows his role. He’s a sub and he knows it. Carrick honestly believes he belongs in the starting eleven. He does, for Derby County or Reading.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:18
I’d have to agree Carrick is no good…
People credit him for last seasons triumph…
But two words for those people Paul Scholes
November 29th, 2007 at 4:28
“Carrick is a massive and very expensive failure.”
Grognard, tell it to SAF; you’ll get free hairdryer treatment for sure..
November 29th, 2007 at 4:49
I guess Carrick’s not doing so well in your fifa 08 side eh, groggy?
November 29th, 2007 at 5:35
a few points….. i wasnt paricularly impressed by anderson’s performance in the first half, he was placing even some of the simple passes either too far ahead or behind the recipient, even when some space opened up in front of him, he still looked to pass, thats a noble idea – getting team mates involved and all, but he looks scared to loose the ball and expose the team to counter-attack and the since the carling cup game, he had taken 2, yes TWO shots on goal……. things improved in the second half, particularly when hargreaves came on and he became the supporting forward to tevez…… i genuinely believe that he doesnt belong in the middle of the park, he shuld be used as a supporting striker or as a winger….
carrick played his best game for us since chelsea…. but wait, thats not a complement….. he’s been bad all season, and he was bad yesterday, only to a lesser degree… he doesnt have the mentality to play for a big club like man utd, he’s been a wreck ever since we brought in some competition for his place in the team…..
as far as nani is concerned, i’m worried about his performances, bcoz he isnt making selfish mistakes like ronaldo used to when he first came…. ronaldo was a teenager who was full of himself, liked to show off and gave the ball away too often, what he wasnt ws indecisive… nani is 21 now, he’s played some more first team football for sporting and if i’m not worng, he ws their star player last season, which means he ws expected to create with the ball at his feet, he was expected to get things done…… also ronaldo was the first portuguese player ever at united, nani has a better support system in place…… while the situation isnt alarming, i wuld like to see some more self-belief in his performances…..
November 29th, 2007 at 6:54
I think the carrick assessments are totally undeserved. Sure hes boring, but how many ronaldos do you want? I mean, his only job is to get it to the likes of ronaldo and rooney and tevez or whoever is playing upfront so they can do what they do best, put it in the net. I wont argue that he was worth the 25 million pounds (or was it euros?) we paid for him because any player who isnt an out and out attacking mid like anderson but not quite a defensive mid like hargo isnt worth half that. But lets not pretend he was doing wonderful things at spurs before we signed him and then he went missing when he plays for us. No, he’s been doing the same things his entire career. So shame on us for paying that much.
But does that mean he isnt united quality? Well, if everyone we sign from here on out has to live up to the quality of ronaldo, even when he has a bad day now, then we are in for some serious trouble. The many does his job, which is get it to the people who want it. If we were going just on the game yesterday, I would say anderson lacks the quality. He looks scared and, to me, doesnt want the ball at his feet. Everytime he collects the ball is gone in 3 seconds, he forces stuff and doesnt always let things develop, which is why he makes his best passes on counter breaks. Now, dont read into this because I do think he is united quality and WILL do great things for us here. I would also like to see him starting next to hargo in the middle. I think carrick would do well to come off the bench and get the spot start much like o’shea and fletcher (albeit an expensive one).
My point of this whole thing is that we cannot hold carrick to nor blame him for the price tag we agreed for him. He does exactly what he was bought for and exactly what hes always done, and thats put the ball on the feet of the people who matter.
btw gorgnard, isnt veloso a holding mid like hargo also? So wouldnt he be used more as a back up/insurance for hargs? I will agree though, he did look like something special. But so did nani when he was there, so, yea…
November 29th, 2007 at 7:01
Redwater; I honestly feel the hair dryer treatment may be reserved for Carrrick as he needs a little extreme heat to wake him up. Fergie is getting fed up with him also, believe me. I’ll be shocked if he starts the 08/09 campaign with us.
Millz; Carrick was dropped from my FIFA 08 team as was Silvestre and Saha. My team has Riquelme as the AMF. And boy do they rock. Suffice it to say I have had no problem with free kicks and making the telling pass. A little exotic but Hell, it’s FIFA 08.
Samg, I wouldn’t worry too much about Nani. He is still learning and his mistakes are due to inexperience and wanting to do too much or make the perfect play. He will have to learn that there are times you must think conservatively. Once he does that, he will warm your heart much more.
Gambling Man; What would you know about what goes on in training? Do you have a guest pass? Ronaldo is an average at best free kick taker. That’s not to say he cannot improve.
He won that job a year ago from Giggs. He doesn’t own it. Hargreaves and Tevez are better free kick takers and it’s only a matter of time before Fergie and the world see it. Hargo will eventually win that battle unless like last night, Ronny really improves his overall approach. The fact that his last free kick had finesse and actually had spin is promising.
November 29th, 2007 at 7:45
Carrick is average, WAYYYY overpriced but he did the job last year. But its alright in the Middle of the Park. I agree that Veloso is the replacement for Heinze we never got but I worry about his price. We need a striker the mold of Ibrahimovic; tall, athletic, powerful, pacy. A Right Back similar to say Evra. We are missing that dimension in the right. That was evident yesterday. The Middle of the park was kind of lathergic last night but that can be amended; Anderson needs to get more energetic when Owen isn’t there to be the midfield engine. Carrick is not the energetic type, he’s a different type of player and we have to accept that of him…or replace him. So to recap this lenthy entry: Attacking RB, pacy Target Man, Veloso, and energy in midfield especially in important games!!
November 29th, 2007 at 7:51
comma… yes, veloso is a defensive mid-fielder, but in the xavi and the pirlo mould (i’m not saying he’s as good, just that he plays a similar role)… grognard had mentioned a 4-2-2-2 formation for which we need two defensive mid-fielders, one who is the hard man, who sits in from of the back four, makes the crunching tackles, and plays the simple 5-10 yard passes(hargreaves) and the other who is defensive minded mid-fielder with the capabilities of taking the ball outta defense, spreading the play and starting attacks and counter-attacks(a role for which veloso might well be bought)……. they will be played together…….
as far as nani is concerned…. i really hope he does well, coz i can see that when he does make up his mind, he can create good opportunities for himself and others….
about anderson, i saw a video that ws basically all of anderson’s touches in a game…. i dont know where he started, but he seemed to get the ball in much the same situations as tevez does when he a rooney are playing together….. he seemed a lot more comfortable in that game than he has in any game for man utd so far….. the game against sporting, in lisbon, anderson came from the bench and really showed us a glimpse of what he can do, he was playing up top…. u won the golden ball at the U-17 world cup playing predominantly on the left wing or off the front man…… i wuld really like to see him in either tevez’s role, or in ronaldinho’s role in barca….. NOT in the middle of the park(i know i said this b4, but i felt compelled to repeat this)
as far as freekicks are concerned, it was one heck of a strike…. but its not the first time we’re seeing ronaldo score off a freekick…. we know he can do that…. its just that he doesnt do it consistently…… i for one am not prepared to watch ronaldo hit the wall on 10 occasions b4 he scores one again (even if it is as fabulous as this one!!!)… its a simple game of numbers, hargreaves took a great freekick the other day against bolton, and as grognard said he took them often and very well for bayern munich(i’m gonna take ur word fr it, grognard, coz i dont really follow bayern’s fortunes that closely), so he shuld take them more often
November 29th, 2007 at 7:52
by the way…… i’ve been meaning to ask this for a while now…. has anyone seen magnus eikrem playing? i’m just curious how good he is??
November 29th, 2007 at 7:55
As an afterthought, I’m a fan of the big squad. I think its necessary for competing at this level and on all fronts (CL, EPL, CC, FA Cup). I believe the 98/99 squad was large and that’s probably what this squad is missing to be on that ability or better. As I’ve said before this is the closest we have come to that glory.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:01
Ronaldo’s took the freekick, like he’s taken every single one so far. I don’t know what you lot are talking about, when you say that he curled it and what not. He just hammered it like always, and once in a while they go in because of the way, he strikes it.
Carrick is hugely underrated in here. He may not be flamboyant, but he does the job, he was ordered to do. He practically never gives the ball away, and that’s why SAF likes him so much. He’s a really important type of player to have. His passing is better than Hargo’s, but his tackling is not as efficient. Carrick had an excellent game on tuesday, and his passing was almost back at the level, we should expect from him. Remember he was just out for more than a month and probably needed time to find his form again.
The problem is that he sits back in the same area as Hargo, because that’s what he was told to do, when he came here. SAF is probably trying to breed him into a box-to-box midfielder, but it takes time. That’s why he and Hargo can’t play that well together… none of them get forward enough. It’s also the reason, combined with Anderson’s sublime talent, why our attcking play looks more dangerous, when the young brazilian is on the pitch.
We look good for the upcoming matches, where the one at Anfield stands out. We have Rooney back at that time, which is really really great. He’ll even have 2 or 3 matches under his belt at the time. Liverpool play a season decider in France during the week and have to play their best squad, so they’ll be worn out, whereas we can rest as many players as we like and kick their asses.
November 29th, 2007 at 13:31
I’m with Tomas on this Carrick issue. He does what he’s told to do.
I think our frustrations come in because we want to see Anderson play. We all knows that he has the potential to be much better than Carrick can ever dream of becomming, but how do you pair the midfield with Hargo, Carrick and Anderson (then there’s also Fletch and co that need games).
Maybe its my imagination, but it seems like Anderson plays much better when he’s paired with Carrick as when he gets paired with Hargo?!?
November 29th, 2007 at 13:50
I notice we are on the subject of midfielders and who should play in the middle.
How about PAUL SCHOLES? He is the most underated central midfielder in the Premiership.
His work ethic and creativity is something Anderson is trying to live up to but it’ll be a few years till he gets there.
Does anyone remember his flick against AC Milan? It was awesome. Almost Ronaldiniho like. Nobody in the current squad could have done that.
We have too many players in central midfield for the positions but Fergie is very good at keeping everybody happy and hugry.
Saying that I didn’t really see any hunger at Old Trafford.
And to change the subject alittle Old Trafford is full to the brim with glory hunters. Football is a working man’s game. The people in that stadium are regularly outsung by the away fans. The United lot a full of familys on a day out with cameras and business men and old women. I mean where is the singing? The passion?
The best game I went to with the best atmosphere was Man Utd v Roma. The crowd were briliiant!
November 29th, 2007 at 14:00
That is Man utd v Roma last year!
November 29th, 2007 at 14:34
when nani and saha are in the same starting 11 then man utd always plays like we are two players shot. something always seem to luck,
carrick and OH will always cross paths wen played together and the only solution is the inclusion of anderson, in the beginning it seemed like nani was bedding in faster than anderson but anderson has reversed the whole situation,
my take is that carrick should be coming in wen and only wen we are leading with four goals and we need to maintain a clean sheet.
finally gigz should retire or accept the bench role
November 29th, 2007 at 14:52
While I’ll be the first to admit Carrick hasn’t quite looked like he did last season, keep in mind he was playing next to a certain Paul Scholes last year. That was a midfield that otuplayed almost everything they came up against. There isn’t another Paul Scholes in the team, so of course he’s not as effective. That doesn’t mean he’s not a very good player, and his long passing is some of the best in the prem. What he lacks at the moment are two things: confidence when’s closed down to wiggle out of the challenge and make his own space; and forwards who make intelligent runs. Saha barely looked to get in behind the back 4 in the last two games, and so he dosent’ have a target. Tevez drops back to almost 5 feet from him, again, no target. Ronaldo offers this and so does giggs, but when Nani is out wide he gives him nothing to aim at. I think he would have aboslutely flourished with Van Nistlerooy, and we’ll see him back to his best when Rooney is in the squad.
Also, why is everyone picking on Fletcher?! Yes when he came off the team played better, but that was because we went 442 with Tevez at lesat doing something upfront. He was unquestionably better than Anderson in hte first half, yet everyone seems to hate the lad. He’s really not awful, and I feel terrible for him during all this Veloso talk.
November 29th, 2007 at 17:09
So u guys think veloso had a better game than carrick?what a load of crap.veloso didnt do shit.nothing.one shot and some handballs,i understand u want united to sign him but that shouldnt affect your game ratings.we dont need this veloso guy.we have enough.the future of united in midfield is hargo and anderson.not some complicated 4222 crap its far too defensive.uniteds best formation undoubtedly is 4 4 2.with flying wingers one def mid and one attacking.4 2 2 2 is not applicable. with what?hargo and (veloso) ??then ronaldo and anderson and 2 strikers?play with one winger?not possible especially with our strikers that like too drop deep.it will turn into 4 5 1.and will become boring as it always is. There is no need to play 2 def mids.
November 29th, 2007 at 17:13
And dont give that shit about veloso being quietly effective because some people say carrick is shit because of it.i will be happy to debate with anyone on this matter
November 29th, 2007 at 18:47
“Does anyone remember his flick against AC Milan? It was awesome. Almost Ronaldiniho like. Nobody in the current squad could have done that” I’m sorry but did you not see Anderson’s flick just 2 nights ago, Anderson has the creativity and the work ethic just like paul scholes, but Anderson’s the better dribbler and Scholes is the better shooter.
And Tomas, “SAF is probably trying to breed him into a box-to-box midfielder, but it takes time”, I highly doubt that, he doesn’t have the stamina or willingness to run back and forward, and “but he does the job, he was ordered to do. He practically never gives the ball away, and that’s why SAF likes him so much. He’s a really important type of player to have.” all this crap about he does his job, if we spent 17m on one player then I highly doubt it was all just for a player who can keep possession well and has a good passing range. I’m sorry but 17m for that is just plain stupid, maybe SAF saw a player that he thought he could make into an english pirlo, but Carrick never was or will be that great, Pirlo has the passing abiity and vision to put the ball exactly where he wants it, as does Carrick, but he rarely plays the killer pass, Pirlo often does, and thats the difference, Carrick has the ability but doesn’t have the confidence to try and win the game himself, he lets others do that for him.
November 29th, 2007 at 19:02
Believe me that SAF is more than happy about Carrick’s ability to keep possession. The seasons before Carrick was bought, our main problem was not being able to control the midfield and thereby the pace of the game… that’s what Carrick was bought to do, and he actually does it quite well. He has things to learn, of course, but the type of player he is is needed at any major club. Carrick’s passing range is phenomenal, which we saw last season, and he’ll find his best form again, when he’s most needed.
November 29th, 2007 at 19:13
Taehr; Take your blinders off mate and watch the game again and again if you have to. Veloso played very well. Perhaps you were expecting Riquelme, Kaka or Ronaldinho. Veloso is a defensive midfielder. Quite often they are the invisible giants of a team. Veloso ruined many and I mean many United attacks in the game. And there is nothing complicated about 4-2-2-2. If you have a problem wrapping your mind around it I suggest you pick up a book on football strategy and formations. It’s very much like a 4-4-2 but the two central midfielders play back more while the two wide midfielders move up and in more. It calls for players of extreme attacking skill playing the wide positions and defensive specialists playing the two middle positions. After that, everything is basically the same as 4-4-2.
Why would United lower themselves and play the formation often used by Barcelona, Milan, Argentina and Brazil when we should play 4-4-2 like Bolton, Reading and Derby. Blokes like you would prefer someone like Alardyce or Jewell to manage England over far more creative and technically proficient managers like Capello, Mourinho or Klinsmann. 4-4-2 is for the birds pal. It’s old and antiquated and no great team plays it anymore. You don’t win the EPL or especially the Champions League or the World Cup playing 4-4-2.
You aren’t prepared to debate anything with anyone who knows anything about the game mate. When your responses amount to nothing but cursing and comments like “I DON’T GIVE THAT SHIT ABOUT VELOSO BEING QUIETLY AFFECTIVE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE SAY CARRICK IS SHIT BECAUSE OF IT”. Perhaps you can try not to be so blatantly rude in your responses to other’s comments. It’s one thing to “DEBATE” and it’s something else to curse and insult. And if you feel compelled to insult, make it witty and smart. Sounding like a hooligan is really quite boring.
So that you know once and for all the reason most of us are down on Carrick it is because Fergie spent a ton of money to bring him here as a future replacement to Scholes. He was thought of as an attacking midfielder. Well as most of us have figured out of late, that hasn’t worked out well for United. Carrick has been a royal bust as far as being an AMF. He has made up for his lack of courage, pace, imagination, finishing and creativity by sitting back and playing the safer defensive midfielder position with some competence. He hasn’t done that too badly but that’s not what he was bought for. Until Anderson showed up, nobody seemed to want to inherit the attacking midfield responsibilities. Not even Scholes had it in him this season. Anderson is far from reaching his potential and he is just learning but he links up better with Hargreaves and has shown more of an appetite for attack than Carrick. Veloso is also DMF, but he does like to attack on occasion, is a good passer but also possesses a lethal foot. He can score from 30 meters which adds a new dimension to our attack.
I get really tired of the Carrick supporters and their whining over the criticism he receives from fans like me. My answer to them is that you can go ahead and support the King of Mediocrity all you want and ignore posts like mine. This may be above of your head but I prefer a Mozart in that position, not a Salieri. And if you get the analogy, I applaud you. It sounds like some die hard Carrick fans prefer porridge for dinner rather than a nice juicy steak. YUK!
To each his own I guess.
November 29th, 2007 at 20:04
Cursing?honestly?if u think so.manchester united won the league with a 442.was it boring?no it was some of the best football played in years with your favourite player mr carrick in the center of midfield.i agree he should not start as anderson is a far better player.and if u read my earlier post i had hargo and anderson in the center of midfield.NOT carrick. i know your minds already made up on carrick so i wont bother. capello and mourinho creative?i guess thats y they both got the sack and in capellos case after delivering the la liga title.i dont care who takes over the england job it could be billy davies for all i care.although i would like to know which players are to play in this 4 2 2 2 formation of yours
November 29th, 2007 at 20:08
you bring alot of bias to your arguements grognard. You cannot say something like ‘you only think veloso was bad because you were expecting a Riquelme’ and then turn around and say you dont like carrick cause hes boring, basically saying its because he doesnt add the flair of riquelme. But at least now I know why you are always so down on him, and if you were thinking of him as an attacking mid, then your argument is quite good and carrick should be sold.
Problem is, hes not an attacking mid. He plays farther back and his only job is, and should be, to distribute the ball to the like of ronaldo and rooney and tevez and giggs and anyone else who might be making a run. The good thing is, he does exactly that most of the time. His shot isnt good enough for him to be a attacking mid, so pushing forward isnt really a priority for him especially since he can make a pass from anywhere on the pitch. When everything is going right, he will wander forward and sometimes find the ball at his feet for a shot like in the roma game for last year.
November 29th, 2007 at 20:09
grognard can you stop talking if you carrick so much then write to fergie fine he has been mediocre in the last couple of games but do you not remember Roma do you not remember how he performed against chelsea he is a very good player he will not be leaving this season nor at the end either veloso will not be bought this season so get over it everyone else fill down abut we are doing fantastically well in the champions league the only conCERN we have is getting striker Saha is not cutting it he is one player who does not have any consistency and is not reliable apart from that I am very happy and should you alone aswell because we are looking for bad points at the moment and to be honest there aren’t many
November 29th, 2007 at 20:12
“You don’t win the EPL or especially the Champions League or the World Cup playing 4-4-2″
I’m fairly sure we won the premiership last year, and eh, would I be wrong in thinking we used a 4-4-2? And liverpool played a normal 4-4-2 when they won the champions league 2 years ago.
Formations don’t make teams,players do, in reality, all you are saying is to take out a winger and put in a more defensive minded midfielder. We will still be playing the same type of football we have been playing for the last few years and that will not change regardless of what formation we play.
November 29th, 2007 at 20:55
[Grognard]
Did you just say 4-4-2 was boring? And the likes of Bolton use 4-4-2? Seriously?
Fact Check: Bolton (and Sam Allardyce) were one of the main advocates of the boring 4-5-1 formation where players lump the ball up to the lone striker. It is a strategy used by mediocre clubs against superior opposition to crowd out the midfield and harry their opposition.
This blueprint is usually used by all the lower rung teams as a safety first strategy. Reading were of course successful last season because they used an adventurous 4-4-2 where lita/kitson and doyle played upfront in an attacking 4-4-2.
United have used a 4-4-2 and got better results. They also did look very good in a 4-2-3-1 where the front four interchange while the middle two (CMs) stay back. Which was kinda what happened against Roma last year. But let us stop talking about that game. The 4-2-2-2 is nice thinking on your part but I don’t see it much different from the 4-4-2 formation other than the issue of defensive responsibility one of the formation expects of the wingers. At home we always start with a 4-4-2 and change shape as and when the situation demands. Let’s not dwell too much on whether our wingers play 20 yards further up or 18. It’s a little silly if you ask me. Although, I guess it’s each one to his own.
I wouldn’t talk about Carrick as you already know my stand on him.
November 29th, 2007 at 21:29
^^^^^
Agreed Tomas. Carrick really does alot of unnoticed work. Many would say he only know how to pass sideways and stuff. Which is absolutely untrue. What he brings to our game is composure and stability. He keeps the ball well and time his passes well. Seldom does he lose possesion. Yes maybe he needs to do it more, but ive seen his killer passes often enough to know that he has great vision accompanied by precise passing. Before, we only had scholes who can consistently make these kind of shrewd yet assured passes.
I disagree that carrick and hargreaves cant play together. Im sure SAF had this midfield pairing in mind when he went ahead to buy carrick knowing he was buying hargreaves next. Anyway Scholes plays as deep as carrick does nowadays. What they (carrick & hargo) need is more games together. If im not wrong, the bolton game was their first as a central midfield paring. But this may not materialise as soon as first expected because of the promising displays of young & talented anderson.
With players like ronaldo and nani on the wings we need our midfield duo to be adequate defensively. Carrick does the covering work very well whenever players like ronaldo and nani get stranded upfront. We all know these two (more of ronaldo) dont track back as well as say, giggs or rooney, but theyre improving.
The down side of carrick, i believe, is his lack of mobility and pace. That is what hargreaves gives us, in addition to good tackling abilities. Carrick is good enough at tackling but i think he lacks the speed. Im not sure if Miguel Veloso has pace. If indeed he has, then i will consider having him in our side. But we would have to sell carrick (unless we only want veloso as cover for evra). I dont think Veloso would come cheap too, that is after reading clubs like Real are also interested.
Carrick, possibly, also lacks personality. Thats why many would think of him as bland and boring. But hes effective. Hey we won the league when he came ya? (note: im not saying he won us the league)
Hmmm. Do we really wana sell an englishman and buy another portugese/foreigner?
November 29th, 2007 at 21:56
right on Red Ranter…… 4-4-2 vs 4-2-2-2 isnt really a debate coz they are essentially the same…. grognard i happen to disagree with you…. creative geniuses like wenger and sir alex have used to 4-4-2 formation and done wonders with it…. sir alex in particular has used the 4-4-2 system for so long and every new generation has played a different brand of football than the previous one… this merely proves that the system is flexible and very effective… 4-2-2-2 happens to be its latest avatar……
i feel the need to ask the carrick supporters one question… Why was michael carrick bought? Was it because he is an attacking midfielder? if that is the case he has done less than even scholes this season and we criticized him for being ineffective…. or was it because he is a defensive midfielder? frankly, i think hargreaves in the few games that he has played, has made more tackles and broken up more opposition attacks than carrick……. ppl wake up… if he isnt as good as paul scholes going forward or owen hargreaves at the back and if he all he has to do is keep the ball… then surely we culd have had fletcher do that (he’d be effective too if all he had to do was to play 5 yard passes sideways or backwards all day)……. face it, none of us expects him to be the next roy keane, nor do we expect a riquelme….. heck, i’ll even go ahead and say that carrick is NOT a bad player….. BUT, he isnt man utd quality, its as simple as that…..
November 29th, 2007 at 22:06
Last year, Tevez scored some spectacular Free kick goal for Westham united. I think, he should get some chance to take free kick aprt from Ronaldo and Hargo.
November 29th, 2007 at 23:06
Grognard, when Liverpool play with 2 defensive mids (2 of Mascherano, Alonso and Sissoko) they very rarely play as well as when they have Gerrard paired with one of them. 2 DMs basically means that you have one less attacking player than playing a 4-4-2(well i suppose that we kind of play a 4-1-2-1 already due to the fact that we have 1 DM and one AM). Also there is a lack of space in that formation for a Paul Scholes/Anderson playmaker type of player to get in and around the box and play a killer pass/shoot. We’ve seen it in action with ‘Pool what can happen with 2 DMs and it wasn’t good so why should we do it?
November 29th, 2007 at 23:33
Yes Red Ranter, I said 4-4-2 is boring. But let me clarify that a bit. It is boring when pedestrian teams like Bolton and Reading and everyone in the Coca Cola League play it. I am not talking about Bolton under Alardyce. For Christ sake I was generalizing about the general formation used by all the crappy teams in British football. 4-4-2 is a GREAT formation in the EPL if you have the players to pull it off.
United have a lot of Continental players now who are not great at crossing the ball and using width as a real weapon. Having fullbacks like Evra helps but he can’t cross the ball very well. Therefore, Fergie has devised a system where the team DOESN’T always play 4-4-2 even if they look like they have lined up that way. And go back and read one of my earlier posts where I plainly explained that 4-2-2-2 is not that much different than 4-4-2 except that the wide players play up further and in more while the two central midfielders play back more as DMF’s.
The problem here is that people jump on me because they tend to speed read what I have written. If they would stop and take a minute they would get the hole jest of what I am writing.
Taehr; I love your logic condemning the capabilities of both Mourinho and Capello because they got the sack. WOW! Incredible intelligence. Next time you want to come to a gunfight, don’t bring a dull table knife. That has to be the stupidist argument I have read in all the months I have participated on this site. The mind warbles!!!! You want to know who I would play in my version of 4-2-2-2, I’ll tell you, but I will include Veloso as I have said from the beginning that their interest in him is for this reason. And if United sign a striker I can see either one of them fighting with Tevez for the second forward position.
GK: RVD
RB: Neville/Brown CB: Rio CB: Vidic LB: Evra
DMF: Hargreaves DMF: Veloso
AMF: Ronaldo AMF: Anderson/Nani/Scholes/Giggs
FW: Rooney FW: Tevez/Huntelaar/Berbatov/Anelka????
To want to defend your English 4-4-2 formation is fine, but before you shit on everything I say, look around and take a gander at what the greatest clubs in the world are doing. It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. 4-4-2 is nothing more than a nice security blanket.
Like Fergie has started to initiate, it’s time some of the supporters showed some balls and went along with the changes he is slowly but surely implementing. The game is changing and evolving. Too many of you have your football roots firmly implanted in the Dark Ages. And you wonder why England is out of Euro 08 and why the whole football development project in the UK needs a major overhaul. I’m not the one who is closed minded and stubborn here. Open your minds to something new and much more dynamic. 4-4-2 British sides constantly beat European opponents who used an old 4-3-3 formation during the 70’s and early 80’s. Then Europe got smart and adapted their style to better handle this formation. They weren’t stubborn, they adapted. Do all of you want to regularly beat the the two Milan’s, Juventus, Bayern, Real and Barcelona or are you just content with beating the Newcastle’s, Tottenham’s or West Ham’s on a regular basis? 4-4-2 will take care of the latter teams more often than not, but rarely will you succeed against the big European clubs playing that style. Not anymore. Yes Liverpool fluked one off three years ago. It will happen once in while but it seems to me that Spain and Italy rule the competition because of their deep pockets but also because of their style of play. Neither are the richest leagues in the world. That crown belongs to the EPL. So lets start to play like it.
One final thing on Carrick. As of right now I will not write another thing on the pillock.
Whether he plays like Shite or if he is the man of the match, I will remain silent. Simply put, I have made my feelings very clear on what I think of him, only to have some of you defend him without any real justification. Week in and week out he bores us to death and achieves very little. Fergie has lost confidence in him as a midfielder who can open up defences. So he has him play a more defensive role which he does fairly well. He is an average player plain and simple. So, until he is transferred, I will remain tight lipped on the subject. To those of you who agree with me on Carrick, feel free to take the lead in the campaign to rid us of this bloody tosser and lambaste him to your hearts content. I’ve had enough giving and taking criticism over this bland bowl of porridge he serves up and that you all seem to love so much. Ah the calamity of blind faith and loyalty!
November 30th, 2007 at 0:52
As I’m sure you can read Grognard I said I (like all you) only see Ronaldo’s FKs on matchdays….but Ferguson and Quieroz see what goes on in training and I don’t see them gesturing for Tevez and Hargreaves to take the free kicks. From a central postion about 25+ metres out then there is no-one better in English football than our number 7.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:41
damn i was watching some highlights of the 06′-07′ season and i realized (again) how effective rooney and ronaldo were at running the two man fast break. ocasionally giggs would join in, just as tevez does this year…but man, those two. . unbelieveable footspeed, skill and creativity
oh and some pretty decent finishing as well
November 30th, 2007 at 1:43
Samg, why cant someone be bought to jsut distribute the ball, like carrick. We dont need him going forward when the likes of ronaldo and rooney are in form. That being said, I will agree with grognard that he is a very normal player who makes special passes every once in a while and is definitely not worth the money we paid for him. But who cares? Why should he have to live up to a transfer fee that he didnt set, and I believe whole heartedly that he would say the same if you ask him. To that end, why is he a bad choice as second string mid?
I, for one, am so loyal to him because he is so loyal to united. He is, in my opinion, the same type of player that o’shea is (without the position versatility but with better skills) and the player that fletcher wants to be. I’m not sure that I would be all that disappointed to see him go, if it comes to that, but I certainly think he belongs here and is united quality.
Lets think about it, with him distributing last year, we scored plenty of goals. I think SAF is not unknowledgeable and knew exactly what he was buying with all that money.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:51
if were getting veloso i think it means were getting rid of carrick and that Scholes injury has him in a bigger doubt than SAF is letting on.
how much for huntclear ive got five on it.
November 30th, 2007 at 2:04
or this is smoke screen as we go for ronaldinho and SAF will blow dry him into shape and move him into a strikers role;)
November 30th, 2007 at 4:36
[Grognard] I did speed read most of it. I am really hard pressed for time and some times thanks to my low attention spans when I am stressed, I skip bits of longer posts. (This is not a dig at your long posts. And blogging is not the only thing I do for a living.
)
But I did understand your 4-2-2-2 thing. Fact is football is far too dynamic to be constrained in formations as subtle in difference as a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-2-2.
Your formation is only as good as the players and how they are used to it. Fergie tried the 4-3-3 in Europe in the past and we paid dearly for it. 4-4-2 is not boring for us because, as it follows from what your said, we are United which means we are NOT a pedestrian team.
It’s fine if we play 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 as long as we confirm to our basic ideals of attacking football. That’s all I care. It may sound a little naive of me to be saying this, but then I do get a little tired of debating too much about tactics. I’d rather watch the game.
I am very much smelling the coffee mate. Just a lot of blends that I am smelling.
(Poor metaphor I know.)
PS: Don’t worry if we all don’t subscribe to that view of 4-2-2-2. After all we are expressing opinions/speculating/second guessing Fergie’s next move. So No one is really Right as such. Although your idea of that formation is a good one. I don’t disagree, because if it does come off successfully, it would look great.
November 30th, 2007 at 5:36
If u read my post u would understand gronard.mourinho and capello are great managers.if u read properly and not rushed through as u accuse everyone of u would see that i used the word creative.i even stressed on the fact that capello was sacked AFTER winning the league.the reason? no entertaining play.no creativity.the same for mourinho.
November 30th, 2007 at 6:07
Taehr; then don’t bring up Mourinho and Capello getting sacked as a weapon in making your point. Fact is they are fantastic managers (whether I like them or not, and I hate Mourinho). I can read just fine thanks. Perhaps you should look at the way you right with all the mispellings and computer slang like “u” which I think is just plain laziness and HARD TO READ. I write the longest posts on this site and I don’t abbreviate or use computer slang because I know that not everyone who reads it is a computer geek.
And if you think those two managers are creative then what the hell is your point mate? You accuse them of getting the sack because they were creative. Read what you wrote. Facts are they got the sack because the powers that be in both Chelski and Madrid have their collective heads up their collective assess. They know absolutely nothing about football and all they want is attack attack attack, not realizing the realities of todays tough competitions.
Red Ranter; You are so right about too much being made about formations. When the game starts formations always get distorted anyway. 4-2-2-2 would not work unless the two wide attacking midfielders have tremendous skill on the ball and pace. Therefore, it makes sense that United should utilize this formation as their Portuguese contingent and Anderson definitely have the talent and speed to burn. They also have great skill on the ball and can drive inside which can allow our fullbacks to overlap. If by chance the rumors are true and we get Moutinho too, then my goodness the options really open up. Personally I am very happy with a 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 formation. We have so many versatile and dynamic players that the sky is really the limit. That is why a static old fashioned yet successful formation like 4-4-2 needs to be given a rest. Bring it out for EPL games against the bottom half of the EPL or League Cup games.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:37
carrick was only bought as a plan C. remember that the top two targets to play alongside scholes in midfield was 1st) hargreaves then Ballack,,but wen these options backfired, thats when fergy went for carrick tho i hyave to say that he exceeded his expectation in the 1st season coz carrick played a bigger role in bringing the championship home..
the problem that many fans have with him is this season, he aint playing the same football he played last season and def. he cant be paid with hargreaves. for his game to be effective he needs a scholes/anderson type of player.
getting velos will be another waste of money as already our mid is crowded priority should be given to Right back position and strike(anelka).
November 30th, 2007 at 7:55
I personally think that SAF bought the great joke because he wanted to create a milan styled pairing of gattusso(the biggest dick in the game, but i still love the mans passion) and pirlo. the problem is carrick has never ever had th ability to spread the ball with the delicacy and finesse of pirlo. haregreaves is better than gattusso, in my opion because his game is much more football orientated, meaning he can hit a pass over 10 yards without missing the target. but pirlo is one of the worlds best players, a real rarity, a true footballing purist. Believe me that is hard to say as im an Australian and still sore about the WC.
In Europe I can really see a 4-2-3-1 formation working. With OH and Veloso as the DMs, much more Milan styled combination and then wingers + Anderson behind Rooney. Thats a very formidable away team in Europe. Yet still has the excitment factor in the top four players. But this is all dreaming as I doubt that United will be given transfer kitty to be able to purchase Veloso and a striker. After the amount that was spent on a EPL winning team in the off season I dont really think the Glazers will be keen on pumping more money into the team at this point. At the moment doesnt everyone feel like we got the best of the worst with the Glazers looking at whatsgoing on at liverpool. At least they dont minggle with the team dynamics like those other dicks, well from what we can see on the street.
Those poor souls who are still defending Carrick all i can say is look at his overall performances for United. Are they up to the quality we have come to expect from our great CMs?? No. Because he is nothing special, there is no point in looking at the past for specifics, his few top games over a season mean little as they are dotted with some very very average performances. Inconsistency costs titles. And to compete for titles I think we can all agree isthe only reason a club like United exists. The reason for last years success was that our original playing group really stepped up all over the pitch.
Gambling man; I have to disagree, I would much rather Gerrard over the ball. He is in some fine form from dead ball situations. I still cant believe his hit in the CL aginst Porto, did not miss by much. If that went in theyd have to find a new net, a real rocket.
November 30th, 2007 at 8:02
comma, there’s nothing wrong in buying a player for distributing the ball… infact, thats what michael carrick was bought for….. i remember sir alex refering to carrick’s passing range as the main reason behind his purchase…. i’m not blaming him for his price tag (i didnt even mention it!)….. i am, however, blaming him for not doing the job he was bought to do….. he was bought to pull the strings in mid-field, he doesnt do that effectively, he doesnt dominate in games where the opposition mid-fielders rely on their skill and he doesnt dominate when they rely on strength…… now, i dont know what sir alex expects from him (frankly, no one outside the team wuld know that), but i do remember seeing the interviews last year and based on that i dont think he’s getting the job done……
November 30th, 2007 at 8:27
you’re right samg, you didnt say anything about the price tag, but i. for some stupid reason, seem to think that its the main reason for all the negativity in regards to him. I apologize for that assumption. I dont know, but i assume that carrick wasnt bought to dominate anything. He was just supposed to get the ball to the poeple that could, which i think hes done somewhat. I also believe that his performances are dependent on everyone else. hes not going to create something out of nothing, he needs people to create things for him so he can just make the pass. Im not trying to argue that hes a great player or can change a game, just that he has been united quality because he does what he supposed to, expectations aside. I mean, we knew when we bought him that he isnt going to take over games. As far as I know hes been like this his entire career.
I guess what im trying to argue is, i know there are better midfielders out there, and anderson will be one day, if not right now. Im not even arguing that he gives us the best chance to win. Just that he does what he is supposed to do, and you cant ask anything more from a guy than that. I mean he isnt a veron or the like, who was godly when he played somewhere else but didnt produce when he came here.
I dont know about many of you, but i’d much rather have carrick as a second choice then fletcher, and not because fletcher is a bad player, just because i think that carrick brings more to the table than him.
November 30th, 2007 at 8:38
comma,,u have pointed out something that i fell i must comment on..carrick jus does what he is supposed to do…right thea! thats where the prob is, to be a man utd quality player u need to do what u were brought for and do a little extra. to be in man utd u should not be an iordinary player,,first do what u r supposed to, then do it well..finally have something special in u that no one else can duplicate..make fans ask que when u are out,like what will we miss if carrick was out..right now the answer would be nothing,,coz if its only the passing we got plenty of people hu can pass,,what will we miss if ronaldo is not playing,,hope u guyz are getting my argument..
November 30th, 2007 at 8:54
I guess you do have a good point. Last year without him we lost a lot in my opinion, but with the addition of hargo and anderson, he becomes a obsolete model. I do get your argument, and its a good one at that. I dont really have an argument to that, so you might have shown me the light.
But at what point do we become real madrid and just by the best at each position regardless of ego? I just feel that someone who doesnt bring anything extra to the table contributes just that. He wont get in the way of the bigger egos, not that we have any, and he’s more than willing to come off the bench for the better part of the season (or at least i think so).
I have a feeling that because of your last post man utd jaluo, that when carrick is gone i wont miss him. But until then, i will support him as long as he wears red.
November 30th, 2007 at 9:04
u jus convinced me to be a carrick fan comma, i will support him coz he wheres the man utd jerzy.
i had overlooked the ego concept which def will affect the team and knowing fergy, he would end up sacking evryone..e.g beckaham and ruud boy van nilstroy and man utd will have no team.
but also we should compliment him for the way he’s handled rooney and ronaldo this far and he managed to still instill the passion and deep desire to win in them.
November 30th, 2007 at 9:25
comma, i actually agree with you…. we shuldnt question carrick’s commitment to the united cause, simply bcoz he has given us no reason to(i hope i didnt give anybody that impression, coz if i did, i apologise), i also think if carrick accepts it, it wuld be nice to have him on the bench……
also we have been lucky to have talent without the ego (scholes, giggs, rooney to name a few!)in the team, and a hierarchy that stays the hell away from the manager and the players…. thats the reason why we have not become real madrid….
November 30th, 2007 at 9:28
also comma, ur assumption about carrick’s pricetag isnt stupid or baseless…. i also get the feeling that most ppl dont see him to be worth the money he cost and also for that reason dont consider him to be an option off the bench…..
November 30th, 2007 at 12:31
SANJOY: You are precisely right, Tevez last year was simply super with freekicks at westham. Do you know i was elated when we signed him, hoping to get some goals from his freekicks. Its a pity ronaldo already had that duty before he came, and he is not given a chance. PLEASE COULD SOMEONE TELL THE PLAYERS TO ALLOW HIS SHOW THE SKILLS HE HAS ON FREEKICKS AS HE SHOWED LAST SEASON.
November 30th, 2007 at 13:51
FIRST:
Carrick was bought in order to play with Hargo. Unfortunately (perhaps fortunately), SAF could not sign Hargo last season.
SECOND:
To all Carrick-haters:-
Why do you think he must be sold? Is it because he does not do what he is expected to do? (I’m sure if SAF felt that way, he would have been dropped already)
Or, is it because we paid too much for him? (He’s already here and now we feel that in order to rectify the situation, we must spend more money on another mid and lose money on his sale?). Silly. Why are we bothered about how much we paid for him? That is Malcolm Glazer’s concern. The main question is wether he is effective in doing what he is expected to do by SAF. The answer is YES. That said, I do believe he has some confidence issues at the moment, but it can get sorted out if he gets enough games.
THIRD:
Please don’t go into formation debates again. I thought I explained United’s formations i the previous article yesterday. 442 and 4222 is the same thing at United.
November 30th, 2007 at 13:53
He RR, what happened to my comment that I just typed?
November 30th, 2007 at 18:35
Karl; He needs to be sold because at this stage he is still worth a lot of money and because United can get back most of their investment and use it towards buying a RB or a striker or Veloso.
As for Fletcher he makes a fraction of the money as Carrick and most of the time he delivers about the same performance level. He’s a quality substitute or part time starter that doesn’t break the bank.
Sam; Well said mate.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:03
Grognard, I understand your point, but unfortunately United flops does not make for good sales. If we sell him now, SAF will admit he made a mistake and that Carrick is a flop. We’ll never get our money back. (Remeber Veron? We lost 16m on him)