Nov 28
United Get the Job Done, Just
I will be very brief, and apologies for those expecting something elaborate. Pressing issues, setting the house in order are just some of the minor things that need to be addressed in the offline life. So short posts will be the order of the day for the moment, at least.
Right. So we move top of the table for sure. Which means we can field our Carling Cup XI against Roma and rest the lads so that they stay fresh for the Liverpool game played three days later.
There wasn’t too much to talk about the game. Well, there is a lot to talk about, but due to reasons mentioned above I can’t be elaborate. So I will present this match report in bullets:
- We were terrible in the first half and much better in the second.
- We hardly managed to string passes properly and Sporting Lisbon deservedly took the lead as well as shaded us in possession
- Their goal was due to an error by Tomasz Kuszczak. And I have to say, Abel actually went for the shot rather than trying to cross it. No excuses for not blocking a shot that went to the near post.
- It is a little harsh on the Pole, but in the time that I’ve seen him, he is a good shot stopper, but his ability to command the area and decisions making remains dodgy.
- Anderson had a poor first half. And not too better second although he did get more space in the second and sent in quite a few long range passes.
- Carrick was much better than he was against Bolton. Although that would be an improvement from Appalling to merely Disappointing. Nonetheless he is getting games, which means he will get better hopefully.
- Nani just kept finding new ways to give the ball away. I know he’s young and all that. But someone needs to beat some sense into him. Perhaps it’s his rather poor decision making ability. He should get better hopefully.
- It was little wonder then, that Tevez’s and Giggs’ introduction gave our team some teeth in the attacking third. At times it appeared as if Tevez was the only one who wanted to get the win. His goal despite the tap in from close range was well deserved for his efforts.
- Ronaldo hit a free kick that actually curled! Can someone believe that?! It is likely that we wont see Owen Hargreaves taking free kicks again for another ten games. Which is sad.
- In conclusion, I’d say the win was fortuitous. I’d expect better in future. But we got the result, so we’ll rejoice in our topping the group. Hopefully it means we don’t have to play Arsenal or Liverpool; I am not sure if UEFA rules prevent clubs from same leagues draw each other in the round of 16 itself.
End of report. Discuss.
Cheerio.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Quiet Monday Roundup
- Fletch Wants To Stay. Do You Want Him?
- Why Carlos Queiroz is More Important than Ronaldo
- Keegan ‘I’d Love It’ Returns To Geordie-land. Heh!
- Should United keep Brown?
Tags: Match Reports
Craig Mc (195)
RedDevilEddy (170)
Opti (135)
Moscow is my heaven (96)
Ian (95)
Last year, Tevez scored some spectacular Free kick goal for Westham united. I think, he should get some chance to take free kick aprt from Ronaldo and Hargo.
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Grognard, when Liverpool play with 2 defensive mids (2 of Mascherano, Alonso and Sissoko) they very rarely play as well as when they have Gerrard paired with one of them. 2 DMs basically means that you have one less attacking player than playing a 4-4-2(well i suppose that we kind of play a 4-1-2-1 already due to the fact that we have 1 DM and one AM). Also there is a lack of space in that formation for a Paul Scholes/Anderson playmaker type of player to get in and around the box and play a killer pass/shoot. We’ve seen it in action with ‘Pool what can happen with 2 DMs and it wasn’t good so why should we do it?
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Yes Red Ranter, I said 4-4-2 is boring. But let me clarify that a bit. It is boring when pedestrian teams like Bolton and Reading and everyone in the Coca Cola League play it. I am not talking about Bolton under Alardyce. For Christ sake I was generalizing about the general formation used by all the crappy teams in British football. 4-4-2 is a GREAT formation in the EPL if you have the players to pull it off.
United have a lot of Continental players now who are not great at crossing the ball and using width as a real weapon. Having fullbacks like Evra helps but he can’t cross the ball very well. Therefore, Fergie has devised a system where the team DOESN’T always play 4-4-2 even if they look like they have lined up that way. And go back and read one of my earlier posts where I plainly explained that 4-2-2-2 is not that much different than 4-4-2 except that the wide players play up further and in more while the two central midfielders play back more as DMF’s.
The problem here is that people jump on me because they tend to speed read what I have written. If they would stop and take a minute they would get the hole jest of what I am writing.
Taehr; I love your logic condemning the capabilities of both Mourinho and Capello because they got the sack. WOW! Incredible intelligence. Next time you want to come to a gunfight, don’t bring a dull table knife. That has to be the stupidist argument I have read in all the months I have participated on this site. The mind warbles!!!! You want to know who I would play in my version of 4-2-2-2, I’ll tell you, but I will include Veloso as I have said from the beginning that their interest in him is for this reason. And if United sign a striker I can see either one of them fighting with Tevez for the second forward position.
GK: RVD
RB: Neville/Brown CB: Rio CB: Vidic LB: Evra
DMF: Hargreaves DMF: Veloso
AMF: Ronaldo AMF: Anderson/Nani/Scholes/Giggs
FW: Rooney FW: Tevez/Huntelaar/Berbatov/Anelka????
To want to defend your English 4-4-2 formation is fine, but before you shit on everything I say, look around and take a gander at what the greatest clubs in the world are doing. It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. 4-4-2 is nothing more than a nice security blanket.
Like Fergie has started to initiate, it’s time some of the supporters showed some balls and went along with the changes he is slowly but surely implementing. The game is changing and evolving. Too many of you have your football roots firmly implanted in the Dark Ages. And you wonder why England is out of Euro 08 and why the whole football development project in the UK needs a major overhaul. I’m not the one who is closed minded and stubborn here. Open your minds to something new and much more dynamic. 4-4-2 British sides constantly beat European opponents who used an old 4-3-3 formation during the 70′s and early 80′s. Then Europe got smart and adapted their style to better handle this formation. They weren’t stubborn, they adapted. Do all of you want to regularly beat the the two Milan’s, Juventus, Bayern, Real and Barcelona or are you just content with beating the Newcastle’s, Tottenham’s or West Ham’s on a regular basis? 4-4-2 will take care of the latter teams more often than not, but rarely will you succeed against the big European clubs playing that style. Not anymore. Yes Liverpool fluked one off three years ago. It will happen once in while but it seems to me that Spain and Italy rule the competition because of their deep pockets but also because of their style of play. Neither are the richest leagues in the world. That crown belongs to the EPL. So lets start to play like it.
One final thing on Carrick. As of right now I will not write another thing on the pillock.
Whether he plays like Shite or if he is the man of the match, I will remain silent. Simply put, I have made my feelings very clear on what I think of him, only to have some of you defend him without any real justification. Week in and week out he bores us to death and achieves very little. Fergie has lost confidence in him as a midfielder who can open up defences. So he has him play a more defensive role which he does fairly well. He is an average player plain and simple. So, until he is transferred, I will remain tight lipped on the subject. To those of you who agree with me on Carrick, feel free to take the lead in the campaign to rid us of this bloody tosser and lambaste him to your hearts content. I’ve had enough giving and taking criticism over this bland bowl of porridge he serves up and that you all seem to love so much. Ah the calamity of blind faith and loyalty!
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As I’m sure you can read Grognard I said I (like all you) only see Ronaldo’s FKs on matchdays….but Ferguson and Quieroz see what goes on in training and I don’t see them gesturing for Tevez and Hargreaves to take the free kicks. From a central postion about 25+ metres out then there is no-one better in English football than our number 7.
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damn i was watching some highlights of the 06′-07′ season and i realized (again) how effective rooney and ronaldo were at running the two man fast break. ocasionally giggs would join in, just as tevez does this year…but man, those two. . unbelieveable footspeed, skill and creativity
oh and some pretty decent finishing as well
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Samg, why cant someone be bought to jsut distribute the ball, like carrick. We dont need him going forward when the likes of ronaldo and rooney are in form. That being said, I will agree with grognard that he is a very normal player who makes special passes every once in a while and is definitely not worth the money we paid for him. But who cares? Why should he have to live up to a transfer fee that he didnt set, and I believe whole heartedly that he would say the same if you ask him. To that end, why is he a bad choice as second string mid?
I, for one, am so loyal to him because he is so loyal to united. He is, in my opinion, the same type of player that o’shea is (without the position versatility but with better skills) and the player that fletcher wants to be. I’m not sure that I would be all that disappointed to see him go, if it comes to that, but I certainly think he belongs here and is united quality.
Lets think about it, with him distributing last year, we scored plenty of goals. I think SAF is not unknowledgeable and knew exactly what he was buying with all that money.
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if were getting veloso i think it means were getting rid of carrick and that Scholes injury has him in a bigger doubt than SAF is letting on.
how much for huntclear ive got five on it.
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or this is smoke screen as we go for ronaldinho and SAF will blow dry him into shape and move him into a strikers role;)
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[Grognard] I did speed read most of it. I am really hard pressed for time and some times thanks to my low attention spans when I am stressed, I skip bits of longer posts. (This is not a dig at your long posts. And blogging is not the only thing I do for a living.
)
But I did understand your 4-2-2-2 thing. Fact is football is far too dynamic to be constrained in formations as subtle in difference as a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-2-2.
Your formation is only as good as the players and how they are used to it. Fergie tried the 4-3-3 in Europe in the past and we paid dearly for it. 4-4-2 is not boring for us because, as it follows from what your said, we are United which means we are NOT a pedestrian team.
It’s fine if we play 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 as long as we confirm to our basic ideals of attacking football. That’s all I care. It may sound a little naive of me to be saying this, but then I do get a little tired of debating too much about tactics. I’d rather watch the game.
I am very much smelling the coffee mate. Just a lot of blends that I am smelling.
(Poor metaphor I know.)
PS: Don’t worry if we all don’t subscribe to that view of 4-2-2-2. After all we are expressing opinions/speculating/second guessing Fergie’s next move. So No one is really Right as such. Although your idea of that formation is a good one. I don’t disagree, because if it does come off successfully, it would look great.
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If u read my post u would understand gronard.mourinho and capello are great managers.if u read properly and not rushed through as u accuse everyone of u would see that i used the word creative.i even stressed on the fact that capello was sacked AFTER winning the league.the reason? no entertaining play.no creativity.the same for mourinho.
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Taehr; then don’t bring up Mourinho and Capello getting sacked as a weapon in making your point. Fact is they are fantastic managers (whether I like them or not, and I hate Mourinho). I can read just fine thanks. Perhaps you should look at the way you right with all the mispellings and computer slang like “u” which I think is just plain laziness and HARD TO READ. I write the longest posts on this site and I don’t abbreviate or use computer slang because I know that not everyone who reads it is a computer geek.
And if you think those two managers are creative then what the hell is your point mate? You accuse them of getting the sack because they were creative. Read what you wrote. Facts are they got the sack because the powers that be in both Chelski and Madrid have their collective heads up their collective assess. They know absolutely nothing about football and all they want is attack attack attack, not realizing the realities of todays tough competitions.
Red Ranter; You are so right about too much being made about formations. When the game starts formations always get distorted anyway. 4-2-2-2 would not work unless the two wide attacking midfielders have tremendous skill on the ball and pace. Therefore, it makes sense that United should utilize this formation as their Portuguese contingent and Anderson definitely have the talent and speed to burn. They also have great skill on the ball and can drive inside which can allow our fullbacks to overlap. If by chance the rumors are true and we get Moutinho too, then my goodness the options really open up. Personally I am very happy with a 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 formation. We have so many versatile and dynamic players that the sky is really the limit. That is why a static old fashioned yet successful formation like 4-4-2 needs to be given a rest. Bring it out for EPL games against the bottom half of the EPL or League Cup games.
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carrick was only bought as a plan C. remember that the top two targets to play alongside scholes in midfield was 1st) hargreaves then Ballack,,but wen these options backfired, thats when fergy went for carrick tho i hyave to say that he exceeded his expectation in the 1st season coz carrick played a bigger role in bringing the championship home..
the problem that many fans have with him is this season, he aint playing the same football he played last season and def. he cant be paid with hargreaves. for his game to be effective he needs a scholes/anderson type of player.
getting velos will be another waste of money as already our mid is crowded priority should be given to Right back position and strike(anelka).
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I personally think that SAF bought the great joke because he wanted to create a milan styled pairing of gattusso(the biggest dick in the game, but i still love the mans passion) and pirlo. the problem is carrick has never ever had th ability to spread the ball with the delicacy and finesse of pirlo. haregreaves is better than gattusso, in my opion because his game is much more football orientated, meaning he can hit a pass over 10 yards without missing the target. but pirlo is one of the worlds best players, a real rarity, a true footballing purist. Believe me that is hard to say as im an Australian and still sore about the WC.
In Europe I can really see a 4-2-3-1 formation working. With OH and Veloso as the DMs, much more Milan styled combination and then wingers + Anderson behind Rooney. Thats a very formidable away team in Europe. Yet still has the excitment factor in the top four players. But this is all dreaming as I doubt that United will be given transfer kitty to be able to purchase Veloso and a striker. After the amount that was spent on a EPL winning team in the off season I dont really think the Glazers will be keen on pumping more money into the team at this point. At the moment doesnt everyone feel like we got the best of the worst with the Glazers looking at whatsgoing on at liverpool. At least they dont minggle with the team dynamics like those other dicks, well from what we can see on the street.
Those poor souls who are still defending Carrick all i can say is look at his overall performances for United. Are they up to the quality we have come to expect from our great CMs?? No. Because he is nothing special, there is no point in looking at the past for specifics, his few top games over a season mean little as they are dotted with some very very average performances. Inconsistency costs titles. And to compete for titles I think we can all agree isthe only reason a club like United exists. The reason for last years success was that our original playing group really stepped up all over the pitch.
Gambling man; I have to disagree, I would much rather Gerrard over the ball. He is in some fine form from dead ball situations. I still cant believe his hit in the CL aginst Porto, did not miss by much. If that went in theyd have to find a new net, a real rocket.
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comma, there’s nothing wrong in buying a player for distributing the ball… infact, thats what michael carrick was bought for….. i remember sir alex refering to carrick’s passing range as the main reason behind his purchase…. i’m not blaming him for his price tag (i didnt even mention it!)….. i am, however, blaming him for not doing the job he was bought to do….. he was bought to pull the strings in mid-field, he doesnt do that effectively, he doesnt dominate in games where the opposition mid-fielders rely on their skill and he doesnt dominate when they rely on strength…… now, i dont know what sir alex expects from him (frankly, no one outside the team wuld know that), but i do remember seeing the interviews last year and based on that i dont think he’s getting the job done……
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you’re right samg, you didnt say anything about the price tag, but i. for some stupid reason, seem to think that its the main reason for all the negativity in regards to him. I apologize for that assumption. I dont know, but i assume that carrick wasnt bought to dominate anything. He was just supposed to get the ball to the poeple that could, which i think hes done somewhat. I also believe that his performances are dependent on everyone else. hes not going to create something out of nothing, he needs people to create things for him so he can just make the pass. Im not trying to argue that hes a great player or can change a game, just that he has been united quality because he does what he supposed to, expectations aside. I mean, we knew when we bought him that he isnt going to take over games. As far as I know hes been like this his entire career.
I guess what im trying to argue is, i know there are better midfielders out there, and anderson will be one day, if not right now. Im not even arguing that he gives us the best chance to win. Just that he does what he is supposed to do, and you cant ask anything more from a guy than that. I mean he isnt a veron or the like, who was godly when he played somewhere else but didnt produce when he came here.
I dont know about many of you, but i’d much rather have carrick as a second choice then fletcher, and not because fletcher is a bad player, just because i think that carrick brings more to the table than him.
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comma,,u have pointed out something that i fell i must comment on..carrick jus does what he is supposed to do…right thea! thats where the prob is, to be a man utd quality player u need to do what u were brought for and do a little extra. to be in man utd u should not be an iordinary player,,first do what u r supposed to, then do it well..finally have something special in u that no one else can duplicate..make fans ask que when u are out,like what will we miss if carrick was out..right now the answer would be nothing,,coz if its only the passing we got plenty of people hu can pass,,what will we miss if ronaldo is not playing,,hope u guyz are getting my argument..
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I guess you do have a good point. Last year without him we lost a lot in my opinion, but with the addition of hargo and anderson, he becomes a obsolete model. I do get your argument, and its a good one at that. I dont really have an argument to that, so you might have shown me the light.
But at what point do we become real madrid and just by the best at each position regardless of ego? I just feel that someone who doesnt bring anything extra to the table contributes just that. He wont get in the way of the bigger egos, not that we have any, and he’s more than willing to come off the bench for the better part of the season (or at least i think so).
I have a feeling that because of your last post man utd jaluo, that when carrick is gone i wont miss him. But until then, i will support him as long as he wears red.
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u jus convinced me to be a carrick fan comma, i will support him coz he wheres the man utd jerzy.
i had overlooked the ego concept which def will affect the team and knowing fergy, he would end up sacking evryone..e.g beckaham and ruud boy van nilstroy and man utd will have no team.
but also we should compliment him for the way he’s handled rooney and ronaldo this far and he managed to still instill the passion and deep desire to win in them.
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comma, i actually agree with you…. we shuldnt question carrick’s commitment to the united cause, simply bcoz he has given us no reason to(i hope i didnt give anybody that impression, coz if i did, i apologise), i also think if carrick accepts it, it wuld be nice to have him on the bench……
also we have been lucky to have talent without the ego (scholes, giggs, rooney to name a few!)in the team, and a hierarchy that stays the hell away from the manager and the players…. thats the reason why we have not become real madrid….
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also comma, ur assumption about carrick’s pricetag isnt stupid or baseless…. i also get the feeling that most ppl dont see him to be worth the money he cost and also for that reason dont consider him to be an option off the bench…..
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SANJOY: You are precisely right, Tevez last year was simply super with freekicks at westham. Do you know i was elated when we signed him, hoping to get some goals from his freekicks. Its a pity ronaldo already had that duty before he came, and he is not given a chance. PLEASE COULD SOMEONE TELL THE PLAYERS TO ALLOW HIS SHOW THE SKILLS HE HAS ON FREEKICKS AS HE SHOWED LAST SEASON.
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FIRST:
Carrick was bought in order to play with Hargo. Unfortunately (perhaps fortunately), SAF could not sign Hargo last season.
SECOND:
To all Carrick-haters:-
Why do you think he must be sold? Is it because he does not do what he is expected to do? (I’m sure if SAF felt that way, he would have been dropped already)
Or, is it because we paid too much for him? (He’s already here and now we feel that in order to rectify the situation, we must spend more money on another mid and lose money on his sale?). Silly. Why are we bothered about how much we paid for him? That is Malcolm Glazer’s concern. The main question is wether he is effective in doing what he is expected to do by SAF. The answer is YES. That said, I do believe he has some confidence issues at the moment, but it can get sorted out if he gets enough games.
THIRD:
Please don’t go into formation debates again. I thought I explained United’s formations i the previous article yesterday. 442 and 4222 is the same thing at United.
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He RR, what happened to my comment that I just typed?
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Karl; He needs to be sold because at this stage he is still worth a lot of money and because United can get back most of their investment and use it towards buying a RB or a striker or Veloso.
As for Fletcher he makes a fraction of the money as Carrick and most of the time he delivers about the same performance level. He’s a quality substitute or part time starter that doesn’t break the bank.
Sam; Well said mate.
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Grognard, I understand your point, but unfortunately United flops does not make for good sales. If we sell him now, SAF will admit he made a mistake and that Carrick is a flop. We’ll never get our money back. (Remeber Veron? We lost 16m on him)
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