May 28
United Sleepwalk to Defeat
There’s been this nagging feeling at the back of my head; the press had built up United to be a monster that would just walk all over Barcelona. Even many fans were disturbingly over confident over our chances. Surprisingly, a good number of English non-United fans were also fairly confident of United’s chances.
With all the hubris surrounding the game and United in particular, there was one thought in my head: everyone is building this up with a chance of a spectacular fall lying in wait. That was a thought more due to my cynicism over any unduly gushing praise; even cockiness over a side that have been demolishing everyone left, right and centre — scoring well over 100 goals this season.
One may say this is hindsight talking, but I mentioned this prior to the match. I knew we were perfectly capable of beating Barcelona on our day, but I was also perfectly aware that it was foolishness to expect United would just walk all over them.
The first 10 minutes however, gave me the hope that United were really up for this and it could be our night. Ronaldo was in his elements, out to prove a point. And despite all the media shenanigans over the best player in the world, he was among the few players to emerge out of the match with any credit.
Samuel Eto’o’s goal came, as they say, entirely against the run of play. There was no indication till then of Barcelona ever coming close to the ball till that instant. More shocking was the ease with which Eto’o turned Vidic, and whilst EVDS could have done better at his near post, the damage was done.
United were shell shocked, visibly, and chased shadows for the rest of the game. There is nothing else to say about this really. Ideally, my match report should end here. Full stop.
But it won’t, because I have to waffle a little longer because of the occasion. So, waffle, I shall.
There was a debate about Guardiola being a better coach than Ferguson. It’s hard to make that argument because of the gulf in experience and achievements between the two managers. But today, it looked like Barcelona were well coached and prepared for the occasion once they got their goals. The Barcelona coach was on the touchline belching out instructions even when they were ahead, and he was quick to spot moments of indiscretion from his wards — although they were few and far between.
It’s also hard to say that Ferguson got his tactics wrong. I think he put out the side everyone predicted. It could be said that Fletcher was missed, but I’ll again chalk this down to the first goal that knocked the wind out of the players. What was shocking was the lack of drive shown by the players to get their heads together, regroup and come back stronger. There was little fight, and only more frustration as Barcelona passed us to death.
Ferguson was absolutely right when he said we did little when we got the ball. Fletcher can help get the ball back for you, but when Carrick tried way too many Hollywood passes, and Rooney just got angrier and angrier, and Evra mishit everything after another foray, and Park fell down after being given the ball by Ronaldo (following much hard work by the Portuguese) there is little one can do but scratch heads vigourously.
So, how do I feel? I feel sick but in a strange way. I am not gutted by the defeat, as I would have had it been at the hands of Chelsea or Arsenal or Liverpool. But I still feel empty today. It was as if the day seemed blank. There is a weird curling feeling in the stomach, yet no grief.
We were extraordinarily poor today, and there is little disgrace in losing to an exceptional side. I only wished we gave them a bit more fight than we did today.
*
The obvious fan reaction will call for heads to roll, players to be sold etc. I’ll pass on that reaction, because it belittles a season’s worth of work. Yes, we have obvious weaknesses, but so does every club. So I’ll spare my readers my rant on which player needs to be sold or who needs to be dropped. I think I’ve either moved past that or can’t be too arsed to go through that ritual following a defeat. Doing that just feels like taking hindsight to the back of the truck and subjecting him to gross, even illegal, physical abuse.
The time will come when we take stock of the season — and that will come over the next few days. So watch this space.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd 2-0 West Ham: United Sleepwalk Past Hammers
- Manchester United throw the last game of the season
- Perez would ‘welcome’ Ronaldo — that’ll be £70m, thank you.
- Betting Preview: Manchester United set to thump Burnley
- Liverpool outplay poor United
Tags: Match Reports
May 28th, 2009 at 7:14
Nicely put mate. I feel similar, not exactly gutted but still feeling like something is a little off. I think it helped that Barca played the way they did. It was a case of well yes we didn’t play well, but at least we lost to a team that clearly played at 100%.
As to the reaction to the game. I really don’t think there needs to be many questions asked, that is questions that haven’t been asked already. Today was just a bad day at the office but the same questions remain:
* Has Berbatov improved our play compared to last season? If not, what is his role moving forward
* Will Ronaldo & Tevez stay? If not, who do we get to replace them
* Does Anderson have what it takes to play for United at the highest level
That is all….
May 28th, 2009 at 7:34
I will be satisfied if the following happens
Out:
Neville (Retirement)
Giggs and Scholes (well maybe not out, but they should be limited to the odd cameo)
Campbell
Manucho
Park (cant ship him out fast enough imo)
possibly Anderson and Nani
In:
DMF (dont really know whats out there and Hargreaves is still in limbo…Muntari? Veloso? Flamini?)
AMF (I dont really know whats out there since Diego got snapped up. he would’ve been nice, maybe Silva could work here…)
LW (David Silva please god make it happen)
CF or sign Tevez (primarily of the goalscoring variety, we dont need more Rooneys and Berbatovs, can we get Forlan back lol?)
make it happen
if were smart with how we spend the money i think we can get all this for 60m
May 28th, 2009 at 7:35
@Adam Axon: Berbatov has not improved our play nor will he do so in the future. His role is to play up front despite his lack of abilty. Ferguson will play him because he has paid £30 million for him and is going to get his worth.
Tevez goes, Ronaldo maybe goes. Ronaldo either signs a contract sharpish or he goes. Simple. Ribery to replace and no more of this ronnie up front bollox!
Anderson is quality. He had a terrible game in the champions league final but he’s young and it was a big game. He’s brilliant on the ball, can tackel and can spot a pass. He’ll be a legend at United, you wait and see
May 28th, 2009 at 7:37
one of my friends who’s a ‘pool fan also thought that if one of ronaldo’s shots got in early, the game might’ve turned out different…
at least we’re not the only ones not thinking it could’ve gone in a different direction..
we still missed that fighting spirit, like we did in recent come from behind wins.
granted they were a good team, it seems like we were happy enough to get in the final, and that was good enough for trophy.
All in all, if this is the kind of hangover season we have after winning last year, I’m more than happy with our accomplishments, we could’ve been drunk on last years triumphs, but we weren’t.
This is United. Always challenging for the top.
May 28th, 2009 at 7:40
@MUFC Fan in America: and to respond to myself
Money shouldnt be an issue for us if we dont sign Tevez along with the deep runs and victories we made in all competitions. Our transfer fund should be vast. If our summer is threadbare, then I’ll be worried for next season.
May 28th, 2009 at 7:42
@Bill: Berbatov is like that expensive shirt you bought cause it looked good on the mannequin, but when you took it home, it didn’t look as good as you thought, but you want to get your money’s worth so you wear it no matter how ugly it is, until…someone tells you how ugly you look in it.
maybe SAF is looking in the magic mirror.
I think Berbatov is a good player, and has contributed to us this season, but not in the way we needed. he’s merely changed our dynamic a bit, not improved it all that much.
May 28th, 2009 at 8:14
Nice note – I have this sick empty feeling at the bottom of my stomach….kudos to barca for playing the way they did, but I was surprised at the apparent lack of spunk. 2 players I missed like crazy yesterday:
1. Roy Keane – ohh, what I would have given to see him galvanize the team after Eto scored……he was the one guy who could drive the team. Sorry to say this, and I admire Rio, Giggsy and Scholes as much as the next guy, but they don’t quite have the same leadership effect.
2. Ruud Van Nistlerooy – to hell with fancy skills and tactics….all season I felt that what we needed was a good, old fashioned finisher, someone who can convert one out of one, because in a CL final against a team like Barca, thats all you’ll ever get.
May 28th, 2009 at 8:17
We didn’t play well. They did. We lost. Period. But yeah, I am gutted. Because our team couldn’t even put in a fight. If the team is not motivated enough to put their best shift for a Chmapion’s League Final then when else will they?
That aside. This season was fantastic. We did well on all counts and had Fergie not put in the reserve team for the FA Cup semi we would have had a realistic chance in the competition too. So this speaks volumes of the quality of squad.
SAF sometime back said that he had learnt a lot from the defeat at SanSiro. Well, he has to learn a lot from this defeat too. The commentator said that it wouldn’t matter if there were six forwards on the pitch if your midfield is incapable to providing them with service. Grognard has been screaming for the past year that our midfield is inept at providing service. This is the primary reason that players like Berbatov are apparently not performing to the fan’s expectations. We should address this problem immediately.
An incoming Hargreaves should spruce up the midfield immediately. Add to him, Carrick or Anderson and I believe we have a good midfield. Anderson cannot be judged by his performance tonight. He has shown flashes of brilliance this season and plenty more lats season. He should be given time. But I should admit that he was definitely not worth 18 mil. There is no urgent need to offload a lot of players. One or two smart additions should do the trick for next season.
May 28th, 2009 at 8:19
@Natzca: Berbatov is the expensive very good looking shirt without buttons. Unless Ferguson provides buttons, the shirt will look atrocious when worn.
May 28th, 2009 at 8:45
Well said RR. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on one’s outlook) I won’t add more to the debate as I pretty well ranted my way to submission on the previous thread. I am gutted and I feel as low as I have ever felt after major sporting event that my beloved team had lost. Only the World Cup of 82, The Stanley Cup finals of 1970/71 and 78/79, the 2001 World Series and the 1979, 1984 and 2008 Super Bowls compare to this. I am as you know an elitist and with that comes a pride in the teams I choose to support. I don’t follow losers and I don’t just expect victory, I want it doen with pride, poise and style. So imagine just how shocked, humiliated and depressed I am feeling right now. My beloved United has become the Damned United in one day. Damn, I am pissed at the team, at Fergie and at the way we went about our business yesterday. It was beyond disappointing. It was a disgrace and although I do not feel heads must roll, some changes are needed, if we are to recover from this and somehow remotivate ourselves and find our confidence, focus and mojo so that we can come back for revenge or retribution or whatever.
But I cannot get out of my mind that tonight might be the beginning of the end. The start of the big decline that is unfortunately inevitable with Fergie’s eventual retirement and the unease I feel about our current financial status and owners. Will we be back to win back what once belonged to us? I honestly don’t know. The present team as it is right now was exposed for what they truly are yesterday. A slow and below average side when compared to Barcelona. Sure I still think we are grand but our central midfield is a joke and anyone who cannot see this needs a couple hours with an analyst.
We have been outed and we are a bit of a fraud. Berbatov…..a fraud, Evra…….a fraud, Anderson……a major fraud, Carrick…..overrated, Giggs, Scholes, Neville, EVDS………OVER AGED and Park…….Overused as well as overrated and overindulged. These are our weaknesses. I still feel we can work with Carrick because he has some skills but is too slow of foot. Giggs can help us as a sub, but the rest I’m sorry to say cannot cut the mustard at the very top. Sure Park can be a role player and all but really, how much of Scholes, Neville and Anderson can anyone be expected to stomach? And will Berbatov ever be the player Fergie envisioned when he bought him? And yet, the two players we may lose are the only players that injected any life and desire in that final. Tevez and Ronaldo. We lose them but keep the rest? Something is wrong with that picture and with United’s policies. But if they are determined to leave, well let them.
I’m sure Fergie will find a couple of 15 year olds in the Brazilian jungles or in some Portuguese village that will be our saviors, right? Or are they digging under the war ruins in Bosnia and Serbia for relatives of Tosic and Llajic who may want to play for us. Somehow I just can’t help but feel that we are becoming even more pathetic than Arsene Wenger and Arsenal, because all we seem to be focusing on for helping our team of late is babies who are still being milked by mommy. NUTS!
May 28th, 2009 at 8:46
@Jeet: You said it mate. Cheers and well said. God how I miss Keano or even Paul Ince in a game like that.
May 28th, 2009 at 8:47
Thoughts:
The bad things
I’m not a football manager. I’m certainly not the best that has ever lived (Sir Fergie). But I would have thought maybe telling the boys to put pressure on the man with the ball against hte best pass and move team in the world would have been a good idea. What the hell were we doing? Standing off of them, allowing them to move behind us…who’s plan was that?
We didn’t show up. Ando, Giggs and Park were absolutely woeful. And therefore there was nothing for Rooney and Ronaldo to do. As good as those two are, they can’t do it all themselves against 5 men.
We never laid seige. We never hinted at that 99 spirit of alright, it’s our time to score. We went down 2-0 and gave up. The rest of the match was played at walking pace.
Puyol. What a disgrace. Is it something about Barcelona right backs? He won the Drogba award for gaining over 10 minutes of wasted time for his team, all by himself through feigning injury. Get up you girly-man.
Ji-Sung Park is a great athelete. Reads the game of football well. Tries really hard. But his attacking skill with a football places him somewhere behind (deep breath): Nani, Berba, Tevez, Macheda and Welbeck. I’m tempted to add Fabio and Rafael into that. So in the final of the CL, why is he playing? Sympathy? Fergie – wtf?!
Fergie played the formation everyone expected, and it failed spectacularly. I was absolutely sure there would be a twist, but we set up to neutralise Barca. That’s not the United way. That’s not using our best strengths. It was just negative, and you know what? It was cowardly. That’s what I’m most annoyed about. That with the team we have, we’d show that much fear.
Vidic has had an outstanding year, but made 3 big mistakes. Fortunately the two against Pool didn’t hurt us in the end, but last night’s was unforgivable. Everyone who has ever played knows you show the attacker wide, not into the middle. What an idiot.
The good things
We made it to the semis or finals of every competition we entered this season, played more games than any other club in Europe, won the league and some other cups and occasionally looked really quite good.
Hopefully Fergie will spend the summer thinking about his cowardice, his new found negativity. Yes, it works for Rafa and it worked for Jose – but that’s because they have mastered the negative arts. Fergie has never been good at it – got lucky last year in the CL semi. I remember when the ‘fab four’ were mentioned I just wondered as a defense which one you double team. You can’t double team them all, and they all need it. By only playing two of them, one out wide where he’s useless, you give them a very easy job. All I want is for Fergie to grow some balls again. Barcelona, with their depleted defense, would have been genuinely worried had we at least put out 3 attacking players. It would have forced the midfield to think about their defensive duties. But instead we basically said – alright you guys attack and we’ll defend. It was awful, AWFUL tactically.
If we’d won, what would the players be playing for next year?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:07
Manchester United is always about bouncing back from defeat.
We still have a young squad apart from neville, scholes and giggs
I expect that next season will be their last one and they will be used only as subs.
We have the Da Silva brothers, Gibson, Possebon, Welbeck and Macheda waiting for more first team opportunities.
I think next season we will see the best of united and we will see the real difference between utd and liverpool. If the kops think that they are the main rival for the league, just watch the utd demostration, There will be no extra match played(world cup in japan and supercup).
Both teams will be on the same number of matches played during the season.
I see the team motivated to put back the final’s disappointment and ready for next season. + Brown and Heargreaves are back
Just watch out
May 28th, 2009 at 9:14
@Beachryan: The thing that is truly beautiful about football is that at it’s core, it really is a very simple game. Other than the individual skills and technical attributes that players bring to the game, the game is not that complex and is really far easier to analyze and manage from your couch than you might think.
Trust me, baseball and American football are much more intricate and complex and I would even say that basket ball is more complex as well, hockey is a tougher game to coach and design plays for due to the high speed and the strange ice filled surroundings. Footy on the other hand is not a game requiring brain surgeons to dissect. I mean really, lets face it Liverpool have done pretty well with nothing but a dumb fat waiter in charge.
Today however many managers have instilled too much technical mumbo jumbo and many intricate machinations into the game that may confuse many, but really they shouldn’t. The only real changes these new managers have invoked into the game is player rotation and zonal responsibilities. They have broken the field down into a grid and told each player what his responsibilities are. It’s then up to the player to make sure he does the job based on his skill set and how all these players can mesh into a team.
Trust me when I say that the game was far more complex in the 70’s when the Dutch and to a smaller extent the Germans came up with what was known as “Total Football” or the “Dutch Whirl”. A system that promoted slow abut aggressive attacking football but with the key component that everybody could attack and everybody could defend and players could cover for each other by switching positions. If a LB mad an attacking run the CB would shift over to the left and the RB would shift over to the CB position while the RMF fell back to the RB position. Alertness, concentration and ability to play more than one position was key. The reason this never lasted and survived like Italian Catenaccio is not because it was complex. It was because it required an eleven man squad that were all close to world class. Great for the Dutch and German national sides of the time as well as for Bayern and Ajax, but certainly not for smaller less talented clubs.
My point is that it doesn’t take much to manage a team to succeed on the pitch if all we are talking about is strategy and tactics. Where the good managers are made and where the poor ones fail is in man managing and motivation. Knowing how to talk, discipline, compliment and utilize your players is more important than tactics. Knowing your player’s physical and mental strengths and weaknesses is key. In this Fergie is a legend. But today he got something wrong in the motivational end of things. I didn’t have a problem with Fergie’s tactics or the lineup he chose. I in fact picked the very same one so he must then be a genius.
But what surprises me is how poorly we played and how lethargic and tired we looked.
We unfortunately peaked against Arsenal and were never able to get our energy back. Perhaps at this late stage of the year, ten days rest was far too much for the lads. Somehow I think our failure lies somewhere in there and not in on the chalkboard or lineup sheet. We will never know but I am a little surprised at how composed and carefree Fergie looked on the sidelines and how little he did to wake the players up and get their heads in the game. Instead he sat on his hands and did nothing while Guardiola up 1-0 was up at the touchline barking orders and shouting and motivating his players.
I love and respect Fergie but today he was out managed by simply not having prepared the team better and for not helping right the course by screaming on the sidelines. The old Fergie would have done that. Perhaps the man is too old and too tired for that these days and all I can say is that by doing nothing, he did a major disservice to his team. A team needs leadership on the pitch and on the sidelines. That is one thing that I truly love about Mourinho and Klinsmann as well as some others. Energy, confidence and youth mixed with pride and arrogance. Fergie only has the pride and the arrogance left.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:18
@Beachryan: Cowardice has been a new component in Fergie’s game of late. Long gone is run and gun fire at will mentality. He so wants to win the Champions League that he has sold his soul to the Devil known as Italian football and has borrowed every negative thing about their game in order to guarantee wins. It’s not pretty but for the most part it was a effective. But today attacking attractive football won the day and I hope this opens the floodgates in changing the negative mentality that has been prevalent for too many years. Give the game back it’s beauty and get rid of the defensive negativity. Today was a loss for United but a victory for football. And that statement is not only the sad truth but it breaks my heart to admit it.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:19
i dont care what anyone says, you take iniesta out of that team and they wouldnt be half as good. He is their most important player, hes better then messi, and almost as good as an on form ronaldo.
The only player we will buy in the summer is benzema or villa. Probably benzema. Tevez will go, ronaldo, despite whhat he and the papers say, will stay.
As for the midfielders, we are going to have to take the bet with hargreaves, hes good enough to enforce himself in the midfield, its just, will he be thet same player when he comes back. But even if he isnt, who else out there can we get? Veloso? no, senna, to old, who is out there that is available and can play in that position?
Its only a striker we will buy.
And it didnt take long for the berba haters to come out and blame him
May 28th, 2009 at 9:20
After the first goal, the midfield was technically and physically deficient, but what struck me most was the mental weakness. Keeper to defender, to Carrick, then panic,fear, no options…there was absolutely zero mental control and the lack of confidence in midfield passing was disturbing, the ball often going back to the VDS.
High pressing teams have exposed this weakness before this season. I fully expect Berbatov, Nani, Rooney and Ronaldo to look a lot better when this weakness at the very highest level is adressed.
The attack is being held back because the midfield isn’t strong enough, hybrid players like Park are having to be used to hide weaknesses elsewhere.
By weakness, I mean lack of speed, strength, fitness and close range accurate passing in midfield.
Scholes still looked better than all the others when he came on last night, because he’s crafty as well as skilful…but unfortunately he’s too old to do the energetic stuff as well.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:22
we have to sell players to buy players, but who would buy ours?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:22
we can prolly scam city lol
May 28th, 2009 at 9:23
Hopefully barca this season has reminded fergie that it’s best to impose yourself on a team rather than to play scared. To barca a pep credit they never changed their tactics they wanted to score and they weren’t gonna change for anybody. Rafa discovered this during the second half of the season and Liverpool couldn’t stop scoring. Meanwhile we got bailed out time and time again by wonder goals from unlikely people (macheda anyone).
I hope fergie works it out this summer and rediscovere his attacking mojo.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:33
Beachryan, spot on about Puyol he was a total disgrace, funny none of the pundites have brought that up mmmmmmm?
We do need to look at the midfield it is an area which needs work, defensivly we are fine and depending on what happens with Carlos we should be Ok in that department. The guy who said Anderson will be a United legend is clearly on drugs, he is a flop, a Kleberson Djemba Djemba and sooner people realise this the better. We nned to look at what formation we are going to play and construct a side around it, but a leader in there is essential.
May 28th, 2009 at 9:33
Anyone knows that Rooney is the new Dirk Kuyt?All he has is workrate and no end product.Folks might say he is played out of position,but if he was good in his,they wouldnt move him.
When was the last time we wqent to a game and said ROONEY WILL WIN THIS FOR US?
We were just too negative and like chelsea,we didnt deserve to win
May 28th, 2009 at 9:40
@donibrasco: Rooney didn’t get any service, no wonder he didn’t look good.
At least he tried a plan B by trying to get in some crosses in the box when he could, everyone else seemed to stuck on plan A. Carrick did try the more direct route too, but the execution of these moves was lacking in surprise and accuracy.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:01
Carrick left his pasing range in Manchester, he is so important to us in controlling the possession and he gave a below average performance.Well people might say he was overawed by the occassion or that he isn’t enough quality to be in the side but he was not helped by the other mid fielders. Ando and Giggsy did nothing to take note of. How many times was Giggs actually involved in the play. Carrick needs an enforcer in the mid-field just like how Rooney needs a striker to play along side him. Hargo should walk staight back into the first team. Period
We could see Fergie’s tactics there. He wanted us to hurt Barca through the center using Ronaldo’s pace and strength.But that didn’t come off and we should have gone for a plan B. Did anyone else think , why didn’t Fergie try Rooney through the center and Ronaldo on the flanks say after the hour mark ?
We needed to stretch their defense and we had no one to do that. By putting Ronaldo up top , we didnt have anyone who could carry the ball forward and launch our counters. Ronnie is the only one who can dribble past the opposition and carry the ball forward from our half. Ronnie against Sylvinho , there would have been only one winner in that contest.
But as much as we are spoiled, we can’t expect to win every game. Credit to Barca and congrats to our team as well for their success this season. Let’s bring on the 19th !!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:03
I’m hoping this opens Fergie’s eyes. @ Grognard – you’re completely right. In his efforts to get us European glory, Fergie really has gone against what got him to where he is, the United way. I can understand why, watching Mourinho and Rafa kick some ass in Europe taught him a lesson or two. But hopefully now we can put all this behind us. Towards next year.
GK: I realise he’s calming and experienced and all that, but when was the last time EVDS made a save that was important? I don’t really blame him for the goals last night, but Cech/Reina/Given would have saved the first one. And that’s the kind of keeper we should have. Would Foster of? Who knows. He’s never fit enough to prove himself.
LB: Evra is still relatively young, and has all the tools to be good enough. Needs a summer off to refocus, but I wouldn’t scrap him yet. Fabio seems able back up – again if he can stay fit for more than a week at a time.
RB: John O’Shea is not a world class RB. Never will be. Rafael is raw as anything, but the only way to improve him is to give him games. Neville is done. Tough call.
CB: Evans, Rio, Vida, Brown – We’re fine.
CMF: Fletch, Carrick, Hargreaves, Gibson – IMO those are the only central midfielders we have. Maybe that’s enough.
AMF: Giggs, Anderson, Berbatov – Again, my personal view is that these three are all really attack-minded midfielders, even Berba.
WF: Ronaldo, Nani, Park – Two of them are quite good at attacking, the third is a hard-working labourer.
SS: Rooney, Tevez – This might be a little unfair, because I do believe Rooney can lead the line, but still, in theory both of these should be sitting in the hole. Of course only one can at a time.
CF: Macheda – Hasn’t played much and isn’t really good enough to start for us, but at least he plays like a CF, pulling defenders back, getting in behind.
Anyway, my point is we’re still in pretty good shape as a squad. But maybe our first XI isn’t as strong as it could be. And we certainly don’t have the right shape. I think Fergie needs to think long and hard about a few of our players and where they should be playing. In my unknowing, FM view of the world, the best possible formation we could go with to utilise what we have would be:
———A new GK———-
-Rafael-Rio–Vida—Evra—
—-Carrick–Hargreaves—-
——-Ando/Berbatov——-
-Ronaldo———–Nani—-
———Rooney————
You could argue that Ronaldo, Nani and Rooney would never track back and provide support. Damn straight. As I’ve been saying a lot htis year they damn well shouldn’t! Did you see Messi darting back to help his FB? Henry? Eto’o? No. Absolutely not. That’s because they’re more helpful to the team holding their shape and providing outlets. Putting Park and Rooney on the wings basically makes our formation a 4-7-1. Which is retarded.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:18
I think ronaldo will leave this summer, i dont know why but i have this feeling that i wont see him in the team next season.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:20
@Beachryan: We never see Messi, Eto’o and Henry tracking back because seldom there back line is stretched. Iniesta and Xavi keep the ball so well that , the opposition rarely attacks their fullbacks with venom and stretch their defense. Honestly it is just so mentally and physically draining to be chasing shadows and trying to get the ball of them.
On the Scholes front. He is into his last season now and it is a shame that he still is our best distributor.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:22
Agreed with much of what has been said here. Feeling rather empty after yesterdays disappointing game, but in the aftermath satisfied with the season… I felt that the final was a bonus after scraping through to win the league, and a game against a freeflowing Barca would allways be hard.
What was most disappointing for me was the lack of energy showed by our players. Could it be the heat that affected them? Certainly the opening minutes with high pressure would be hard, but it lead to us creating some dangerous opportunites. But what could have been done differently? Could we have tried to approach the game in a defensive manner more like Chelsea did? It would have lead to a more boring game, but we would not have burned so much of the energy that seemed to be lacking as the game wore on…
May 28th, 2009 at 10:26
@Beachryan: Mate VDS made a great save just after halftime from Henry to keep us in the game.
But I agree the squad is still good, probably need evolusion rather than revolution, we need a top draw centrel midfield player, sort out what is happening with Carlos, which I am sure is happening and just get a settled system.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:39
united we stand,
granted we are all unhappy not least by our loss, but by the manner we lost. we had two major problems;
1. the gaffer (our precious fergie): as much as we love him, he got his tactics wrong, its as if he does not beleive in his team, we set out to contain barca, when will he stand up and play the best available team! go out and bloody attack barca for goodness sake, we have the players that are good enough. let them worry about us, and if we loose- so be it. instead we sit with our tails between our legs content to soke up the pressure!
2. second to barca, i think we are the most gifted team in world football. but we do lack character in midfield, in defence we have natural born winners and in attack we have determined players, but in the midfield, we lack belief- without a shadow of a doubt we could have done with hargo or fletch, better still keane or ince.
as far as frauds for players, i disagree fully, i think park and oshea are the only players not good enough, park has amazing energy levels, but c’mon we need more, he lacks the intelligent pass, crossing ability, long range shot. we need a player with all that, and is still prepared to defend- like rooney for instance! oshea is a good squad player, no more-no less!!
but fear not, as this is not the beginning of a decline, it is however a learning experience! pls dont compare us to wenger and his kids, or fear for our future. it has been a long hard season, berba did not top goal charts, anderson did not blow us aaway, tevez has been unsettled, evra inconsistent, but we did win 4 trophies, and we are still a young team, with plenty time on our hands
united we stand, keep your heads up!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:46
any idea when pre-season starts?
May 28th, 2009 at 10:47
VDS
Johnson Rio Vida Evra
Carrick Hargreaves
Ronaldo Rooney Ribery
Berbatov
I’d take that as a team. Johnson would cost £10mil, Ribery £40mil. We got £57mil for losing the Champions League! We need an international quality RB, and Johnson is both good and English. Nev is done. Raf is not ready.
Rooney needs to be playing centrally behind a striker. He can do a job out wide, but he can do a MUCH better job in the middle. Fergie needs to hit Berba with sticks until he stays forward. Hargreaves needs to stay fit.
VDS stays for now, but being beaten at your near post so obviously like he was last night was horrifying. Foster is a better shot stopper, but VDS has more command of his box. I guess that’ll come with experience.
The big thing we need is a left winger who is as good as our right winger. Or atleast close. Nobody fits this better than Ribery. Pay whatever it costs. If he goes to someone else, we’ll regret it and spend more than half of his worth on someone half as good. Let Tevez go and pick up someone like Gudjohnson as an option along with Campbell.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:53
@Traverse: Right Back?? we have Brown, Rafael, O’Shea and Fabio is right footed so to me a waste of £10m mate, Ribery will sign for Real or I hear posibley Chelsea.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:53
i think we’re all in agreement that we need 1 or 2 big name summer signings, but does fergie agree? hes as stubborn as it gets!
May 28th, 2009 at 10:57
@Dan: We do tend to buy every season, but it would depend if we are going all out to buy Carlos, I am not sure about what money we have to spend, with the AIG Glazier recession issue.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:05
I actually disagree. We don’t need much, and the players we have are worth developping. The only exception to that is if we lose Tevez. In that case we should have some remaining funds to pick up another winger.
Am I the only one that wouldn’t mind a season that wasn’t 66 games long and stretching our squad to the max? A season when we could let something resembling a first XI gel together, with youth filling the gaps? Between Welbeck, Macheda, Nani and Campbell, we have some real talent coming through up front, and we also have a very solid defence. In the midfield, I’m desperate to see Ando given some proper game time, and think Hargreaves will be useful.
I feel like this season with the whole Berba/Tevez situation and the way we had to rush the beginning of the season meant we never developped any understanding between our best players, and they played like it for the rest of the year – disjointed and out of sorts. Hopefully Fergie will rectify that htis summer!
May 28th, 2009 at 11:21
@Beachryan: We need a world class centre midfielder, also depending on what happens with Carlos.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:23
i think the tevez ship has sailed, we wont be signing him. Even if its for 25 million, we can still go out and get better.
Im am 100% sure that if a competant assistant manager was here also, the likes of park and giggs wouldnt have started yesterday, but thats behind us, lets go out next season and lose another.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:46
I am absolutely gutted by yesterday’s performance. It is not the deafeat so much that hurt (kudos to Barcelona, they deserve it), but the way we played. Last night I was truly EMBARRASED to be called a United supporter. Whole season, I’ve been crying for one entertaining game (and then people say I always complain???), and last night proved just how far away we’ve moved from that. People talk about Fergie and his tactics? What is this ‘Wimbledon-type’ of long-ball game we played last night? I mean, wtf is this about winning the ball back and then hoofing it up as soon as possible to Ronaldo? It was a disgrace. I mean, moaining to everybody that “when you lose the ball in Europe, you wait a long time to get it back”, and then employing the tactic to do exactly that…give it back quickly! over-and-over. Failed attempt after failed attempt. Shit Sherlock! The team were so un-imaginitive, it was mind-boggling. We seemed very indecisive on the ball, just because the players with the ball were looking for an opportunity to hoof the ball up to Ronaldo. When that path got closed, no one knew what to do with the ball. What a disgrace? Hell, even a kindergarden coach could have countered that specific tactic.
I can stomach a loss. In fact, I feel it is good for the beatifull game that Barcelona won. On our season’s performances, it would have actually been a bit bad for football had we won. Maybe even unfair. But, a United performance without grit and determination. no fighting spirit? Who the fuck told the players to give up on the game after 10 minutes? What happened to our ‘one-touch’ football? What happened to our attack-minded brand of football? What happened to our soul?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:09
@Stephen: I think that we can speculate as much as what we like, but our team for next season will depend largely on what tactics Fergie intends to deploy next season.
If he decides to stick with this cowardly tactics, we effectively need a major re-shuffle. We will have to get, as you mentioned, 1 or 2 major midfielders, a RVN-type poacher and the sale of players like:
1. Tevez, Nani, Anderson and Ronaldo
2. a choice between Rooney and Berbatov, unless Rooney becomes destined for the left wing
The current crop of players does not really suit this type of play. Even though we were fairly successful this season, you could see that the players were uncomfortable playing this way. Besides, they will never reach their true personal potential in this brand of football.
The only player whom it benefitted was Ronaldo, because he basically had free reign. Unfortunately, as good as what he is (and I do believe he is better than Messi), his selfishness is hurting the team in a sense.
If Ronaldo stays, I can only see him become the new center-forward. This will definitely mean that one of our two 30mil pound strikers will be on the bench (unless Rooney sticks to the wing of course).
What I’m tring to say is that our current team is highly unbalanced. The arrival of the expensive Berbatov actually added to that imbalance. Either we change tactics, or we re-shuffle the team.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:13
Only reading the fiorst few comments now, and it already seems like my prediction from yesterday materialised.
People are already bashing Berbatov when he only had 20minutes to play, and that when our midfield had already had their thoughts on their holidays. Still he nearly provided another assist.
And Tevez came on at half time, hustled and bustled as he always do, did squat and can do no wrong.
But anyways, I can’t believe the amount of stick ou strikers have been receiving this season, when clearly its our midfield that has not been performing.
Picture this: Suppose we had Ruud Van Nistelrooy circa 2002, in this team. Would he have scored 30+ goals in this season? I think not, as back when RVN played with us he received good service from Giggs, Scholes, and the odd support midfield. THis season the job of proving assists has befallen on our strikers, and that’s an indictment of how our midfield lack creativity.
Another reason why our midfield is so poor nowadays is that one of our world class midfielders is no longer one – a midfielder. Yes, I’m talking about the player called Cristiano Ronaldo. He’s a forward nowadays, and Rooney is being played as the midfield he is not. Isn’t this the illustration of some major tactical flaw? Why does Ronaldo never play as RM nowadays? You would bank on an attacking duo comprising of any two from Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov to have opportunities coming from Ronaldo’s plays.
Unforntunately, our game has been transformed to suit Ronaldo’s need to score to figure well in Ballon d’or and our team performance shas suffered as a result. THat’s my opinion anyway.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:16
@Karl: Mid season – our best form this season – we payed with Rooney and Berbatov up front. And would you believe it, it worked like a charm.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:23
Guys I got a lot of stick last night by THE ABU’s. I said that we just did not turn up, bu my work colleagues said that is because Barca didnt let us show up.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:28
@Karl: Personally we need to give Berba a decent run in the side ideally up front with Rooney, the issue wiyh that that both players like to drop in deep.
A 4-3-3 would be better so you can deploy Rooney and Ronaldo either side, but in the centre we hopefully will have Hargo fully fit, Carrick and who else?? Scholes is too old as is Giggs, Fletch is not good enough, superb squad player but we are Manchester United for fuck sake!!
We need to say this is us this is how we play, and build a side around it.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:35
It’s a mental thing. When the going gets tough, some of the millionaires in the team react like rich boys. Remember how Liverpool hammered us? And Macheda was the one who rescued us in the premiership. Some of these rich boys need to be shipped out.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:47
@NicoQB: You are probably right, we base our side around Ronaldo, Rooney and Park are simply on the pitch to give him the ball which when things are clicking welll into place then we are flying but when not then we are very predictable.
We set up last night to nick a goal and to try and sit on it, if we go a goal down then we are in trouble, thats why Fergie did something he rearely does bring on a sub at half time.
To be fair to Giggs, who was poor he was asked to play as a support striker and to fill in in midfield in the first half, he is 35 years old and up against their midfield that is border line imposible.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:56
@Stephen: Definitely. And I agree about Giggs.
About Scholes and Neville I wonder how much they earn. As they can’t claim to be essential starters in this squad, wouldn’t their possible retirement free up a massive fee in terms of player salary?
May 28th, 2009 at 12:57
@Stephen: Brown hasn’t played all year, Rafa can not defend, and Neville should have retired when he got injured a year ago, and oshea is just not good enough. He’s alright, but he was massively at fault for Messi’s goal and isn’t world class. We are manchester united, not everton.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:01
@Traverse: Rafa is young mate and will be one of the best right backs in the world in a few years time, Wes was superb last season and looked good against Hull, so after a decent pre season he will be fine also with O’Shea who was one of our better performers last night and most consistant defender recently we are fine.
I think we can spend £10m a lot wiser not in a position which we are very comfortable.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:04
@NicoQB: Scholes has still something to offer, he made the best challenge of the game last night
But he kept the ball simple, Gary Red I am afraid has had it, he should be kept at the club in some sort of capacity but sadly not a playing one.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:05
thanks for the article very well written. as saf says “bloody football” theres no predicting it or loogic in it . last night was just a “bad day at the office”. We will have days/nights like that and it will be someone elses day/night.But we will have days /nights were it will all go right and be our day/night. remember arsenal semi!!!! that was our night everyone played a blinder. Hopefully we will have more good ones than bad as time goes on BELIEVE
May 28th, 2009 at 13:12
Very disappointing to see the team crumble like that after the goal. Shows us that this team is still not a great one, and we are definitely missing a bit of leadership on the pitch.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:27
@Dan: comment 37 about an assistant i completely agree with you. The problem for me is fergie has never been great when it comes to tactics. What i think it is, is when fergie is picking his team he could do with an expert in the tactical area to say who should play where. Quieroz did this very well and in my opinion it is why now with the introduction of a muppet like phelan we have seen a few crazy tactical decisions, a few include:
Neville at CB, he has no height and in my memory has never played CB before this season in his 15 years, why now?
Rooney RM yesterday for the 2nd half and at anfield earlier in the season, whats the use of him playing there?
Anderson and scholes in a midfield 2, i remember in the zenit game and earlier in the season these 2 got a few games together, it was never gonna work cos theres no tackler in there.
Anyway they were just a few examples of the crazy tactics employed this year and yesterday going sentimental picking oshit, park and giggs showed that. Phelan is an absolute bloody muppet who has some how made a good life out of being a mediocore player and crap assistant.
When the 2nd goal went in yesterday they showed a shot of the united bench. There was phelan slouched in his chair looking dis interested chewing his nails, and this is the man whos our assistant, its a bloody joke imo.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:29
@Matt: Are you in the changing room or the training ground, how do you know what he does?
May 28th, 2009 at 13:33
Fed up reading comments from Americans telling us about the beautiful game we invented. Simple fact is we lost it in midfield, Carrick played way too many woeful passes and Giggs/Andersone just didnt get involved. No protection for the back four; no service to the front man. We needed to get wider and test the legs of Puyol and Slyvinho.
Also pisses me off to read about the negativity towards Fergie – sure I’d like to have seen him have an impact on the game and he genuinely looked clueless for the first time in the season, but in SAF we trust.
There’s always next season lads – time to pick ourselves up and humiliate everybody; starting with the Pool and Chelski, and reclaiming what Barca have borrowed from us.
Make no mistake last night’s perforamnce was atrocious, but that makes it easier to deal with.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:35
@Matt: Phelan picks the team does he? What did he pick the side that beat Chelsea 3.0? Did he pick the team that destroyed Arsenal also with Park and O’Shea? Jeez give me strength, do we give him credit for the great run of not conceding, or likewise blame CQ for how awful Anderson is, if we had lost on pens in last season final would that have been CQ’s fault? Of course not, we were poor last night and the buck stops at the manager, but last night you have to blame the players.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:35
Also I agree we got to get some new faces in the backroom staff – like the bloody seven dwarfs. Watching Phelan chew his nails and probably wandering where his bovril was really pissed me off.
Hoo ray for Solksjaer is all I can say, hopefully he’ll bring up the next generation in the ‘99 frame of mind.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:39
Even at 2 0, with only minutes remaining, Barca were still pressing our defenders with 3 or 4 players in our half. The defender had no time on the ball and no easy outlet. ( Hence so many back passes ) Rarely were our midfielders passing to each other whilst moving forward, and in fact rarely passing to each other. Our team was strung out whereas Barca’s seemed so much more compact, moving forward and back as a tight unit.
No matter the personnel next year, we should be playing a pressing game. Practice should revolve around receiving in tight areas and giving options to that man in possession.
We had spare man at the back because we didn’t push on to pressurise the ball as a team. Our defenders were waiting for fast passing players to come into their zone.
It might have been different had we scored first but it is better that we learn from the way Barca played as that surely is the way to play.
This will be a good examination of Fergie’s ability to adapt to the challenge laid down last night. If it has required this defeat, so be it. We didn’t play well enough this season to have won everything.
A quaity passer of, and mover with the ball in midfield to link with Carrick is paramount.
May 28th, 2009 at 13:51
@Stephen: I agree with you, Stephen. People tend to put too much emphasis on the influence CQ had on the tactics, and thereby his abilities to change the way of the game. This year, the tactics have been great for many games, as it have been for many games in previous seasons. But as soon as we lose a game, we tend to find a scape goat. And this scape goat is for many on this site Mike Phelan. I think that is a far too easy solution to explain yesterdays loss…
As for the players mentioned by Matt, I think G Neville has played a backup central defender also in earlier seasons. How good he has been in that position, is another discussion. But I do not think it is because Mike Phelan thinks Gary is a capable central defender… And about Anderson, how can one say that he is not a tackler?
May 28th, 2009 at 13:53
@Stephen: The very first contribution of Scholes last night was nearly getting himself sent off!
May 28th, 2009 at 14:01
@NicoQB: Wonderful challange
To a degree and I am not saying we should have fouled them, but Anderson and Carrick should have got into them early, I think Xavi and Iniesta are made of stronger stuff than they would have gone hiding but sometimes against good players he simply need to get into them.
@supah: I think all this CQ ran the team, he is a tactical genius blah blah, Phelan is this Phelan is that is rubbish, he may not be brilliant, who knows, but to blame him is plain laziness.
We defended badly last night Vida looked like he lacked confidence and Rio simply looked unfit, we played the same side essentially as we did against the Gooners, we played well then and were shite last night.
May 28th, 2009 at 15:10
@Stephen: we cant afford to spend 3 years with a player in the first team who isn’t good enough. as a back up fair enough but not in the first team. If Brown comes back better than ever then fine, but if not, we are going to be light there in quality, if not numbers….
May 28th, 2009 at 15:12
The stats hardly say we were “embarrassed” as the ABU press seemed to make everyone believe.
Barca possession 52% United 48%
Barca territorial advantage 49% United 51%
Barca Shots off target 4 United 7
Barca shots on target 7 United 2
Barca Corners 4 United 7
Barca successful passes 87 United 82.
The two that have interested me are the successful passing, which Barca had only 5 more than us and considering how YSB Rednapp had his penis in his hand about how the brilliant Xavi and especially Iniesta, passed us off the park.
But what is really annoying is the corners, we had 7 corners against a fragile defence and could not score with Vida, Ronnie, O’Shea and Rio in the box very frustrating.
But I suppose “There are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
May 28th, 2009 at 15:16
Of course I am gutted at losing last night but I can accept the fact that we were defeated by a better team, that makes it a little easier to face the world today.
Barca showed us where our real deficit is – namely the lack of an attacking and creative midfield – defensively we were unusually shaky with o´Shea being the weakest point, although both goals were results of rio and vidic mistakes. We really lost the game with our inability to retain possession and make incisive attacking passes from midfield. Our attackers got practically no quality balls after the first 15 minutes.
enough of yesterday, we need to look to the Future – winning 19 EPL Titles! and 09/10 CL Final! To do this though I feel we need to face up to some hard facts.
The Old Guard (Giggs, Scholes and Neville) are too old to cut it on a regular basis, they can be brilliant but only on occasion and should be used as subs in the future depending on the game at hand.
VDS is our best keeper since Schmeichel but I can´t see him lasting more than one more season, Foster needs more starts in the league next year to see wether he will live up to his promise, if he doesn´t we will need a new GK (Buffon would be my choice)
Although still a top defender, Rio is not the man he was, maybe he has taken too many knocks in his brilliant career, good that we have Jonny Evans who should be able to fill his shoes.
Consequently we will need to nominate a Captain who commands a First Team Place – Rooney would be my choice, his commitment to the team and club are second to none!
Ronaldo (if he stays) should play in the traditional role his number 7 carries – bombing the right wing, feeding into the box or cutting in and taking his chances.
A real Right Full-back – O´Shea is too slow and his touch and passing just aren´t good enough – Rafael is young and has potential and IMO should be the starting RFB next season.
Left-wing – Park is a workhorse and shows occasional brilliance but he isn´t consistent with crossing and give-get play. A left winger playing up the field out of midfield and allowing Evra to move up in support is what we need. Park will need to improve to fill that role.
Rooney is NOT a left winger he IS a Striker, and should be in a roaming role in front of the midfield and just behind or alongside Berbatov who has the best first touch in the squad and is a natural striker. Berbatov should have a first team slot as man in the hole next season.
Tevez is full of commitment and energy but lacks the quality to really justify a first team place, his first touch is abysmal and I personally think that the 25+mil could and should be spent better on a midfield player with the format and quality of an Iniesta or Xavi.
Midfield is where our biggest deficit lies, defensively and pressing we have Fletcher, Anderson, and Hargreaves – all good there. Carrick is a solid passer and sometimes brilliant tactician but he his too often used defensively. We need a midfield maestro making runs into the box drawing defenders and freeing up our strikers to score goals. Last night the midfield was static stopping the ball and leaving the back pass as the only option to retain possession.
Macheda and Gibson should both get first team spots (on the bench) next year. Macheda has the potential to be a goal scoring legend. Gibson has real quality and should be used to give us more options in midfield.
I sincerely hope and believe that SAF will analyse last nights game and rethink our entire squad and tactical situation, the Team doesn´t need rebuilding just reorganising – transfer targets for the summer must be to improve the attacking quality of the midfield especially on the left wing and in creative aspects.
Something tells me we won´t be buying Tevez and we could well be seeing CR7 off to Real Madrid – the cash gained could and should be used to shape and strengthen the squad and give us the attacking edge over our rivals in what will surely be a hard 09/10 campaign…
I have complete faith in SAF and am sure he will take the lessons learned last night to improve the team and lead us on to further success in the domestic and european leagues.
United for Life!
May 28th, 2009 at 15:26
@NicoQB: “Mid season – our best form this season – we payed with Rooney and Berbatov up front. And would you believe it, it worked like a charm.”
Rooney and Berbatov as a partnership had a total of ‘ONE’ goals between them. How did that work as a charm? With Rooney being Fergie’s own step child, don’t you think he would have persisted with that partnership if he thought it was successful?
Problem is, both need to play in the hole. Any other position, and you will not get the very best out of them. Rooney for example is very capable playing wide, but it is a sin against the football gods to let such a gifted support striker play in that position.
IMO, even though Berbatov is well capable playing as the main striker, you overlook his greatest assets of spraying the ball ‘in the hole’ when you let him upfront. I’m pretty sure that was the reason Fergie bought him, NOT to play as the main striker. Either that, or he is one hellava flop.
@Stephen: How many games’ run do you want to give Berbatov? He was first choice the entire season.
I promised that I will keep my judgement on Berbatov until the end of the season. Well, it is now the end of the season.
In my view, he did not impress.
I don’t think he is a bad player. But, I do believe that he was the wrong choice and that his arrival unsettled the team. Somehow, I get the feeling that with a few tweaks to the team during the summer, we will see a different Berbatov next season. I really get the feeling that he will have an amazing season next season. Thing is, we will have to make changes to the team. In saying that, we would not have had to if we did not sign him up in the first place.
Bottom line is, so far, he did not live up to expectations. (Disclaimer: In no way am I blaming last nights defeat on him, or any other player for that matter).
May 28th, 2009 at 15:34
@Traverse: You see this is my problem. How on Earth is a right back at fault for a right sided attacking player cutting in and scoring a header in the centre? People are looking for scapegoats. Barca were better than us last night, on another day it could’ve been different but I’ll say it again like I’ve been saying the last few months: We have gone backwards as a TEAM since last season. This is to do with a change of style and incorporating Berbatov into the team. We won the league and the CL last season. Yet we had to change our whole style for some reason lost on me.
May 28th, 2009 at 15:36
@Liam: My sentiments exactly Liam
May 28th, 2009 at 15:39
I agree with liam people are looking for scapegoats, and that wont stop. till we start the new season and i demand an answer to the way we lost yesterday.
May 28th, 2009 at 15:44
Our manager was exposed for his lack of tactics.I mean the line up could have been predicted by any one who can spell football.Not with him assuring Park ad Oshea starting berths a month to the final.Who wouldnt know the rest and the formation?
Another person,a neutral would tell you that Ronaldo is half of man united and the rest in the attacking front wait for the win and start going to the press for interviews of how they help the team in defending.
We should learn from barca and have attackers to attack midfielders to supply and defenders to defend.Enough of the tracking back bs.half the time we are strothan most teams.
May 28th, 2009 at 15:54
@ROOOOONEY: Well said. At least now we have pre-season to try and figure out our weaknesses and try to improve on them. The new season couldn’t come quicker.
May 28th, 2009 at 15:55
@Liam: he came in from the left for his goal, he ran in, o’shea stood still and watched him…
May 28th, 2009 at 16:24
@Liam: At what point did I mention the first goal? You either invented me talking about it, or it didn’t happen..
ANY right back of Championship quality would have felt like a chump for leaving a player free in the box 5 yards away when there was no one behind him.
Let alone if that player is Messi. It’s indicative of our weakness. Players who aren’t good enough to get into any other top team being labelled good enough for us because they pull a few good performances out of a hat.
May 28th, 2009 at 16:33
I’m not picking scapegoats for the game. We were garbage,
But there is no way in hell I’m going to let League 1-esq errors slide. O’shea’s was one, and VDS being beaten at the near post was another (especially as it hit his bloody hand on the way through).
The game could have gone completely differently. If we’d have scored one of the 3 good chances we had in the first 9 mins Barca would have been the ones having to chase the game, and our players would have had that boost from the goal. Barca were on the block, and they got a goal from nowhere. That lifted them and deflated us, with a few players already a bit nervy, and from then on we had to chase the game, and that played right into their hands.
But it didn’t and these things were not acceptable. We’ll see what happens over the summer, but a good signing before pre season kicks off would give the whole place a boost if nothing else!
May 28th, 2009 at 16:38
@Traverse: Dont forget our biggest chance of the game, Park Ji Sung getting blocked last minute by Pique. Park could have lifted it over the Spaniard but it was not to be.
The line between success and faliure is paper thin. Probably less than that.
May 28th, 2009 at 16:39
@Karl: “Thing is, we will have to make changes to the team. In saying that, we would not have had to if we did not sign him up in the first place.”
Those are exactly my thoughts on berbatov, He is undoubtedly a world talent but I dont think he is good enough to alter our squad to accomodate him. This is why I prefer tevez over Berba, Berba is obviously the more skilled player but Tevez fit in with our team much better.
I think its a little harsh to call Berba a flop or a fraud after 1 season, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt and give him one more season to prove his worth. (just to be clear, Im not calling him a flop and Im NOT-NOT calling him a flop. I am just reserving judgment till after next season.)
May 28th, 2009 at 17:04
Holy fuck the haters have come out in force. Its losses like this that makes you realize just how jealous people are of Uniteds success. Take a gander at different sites and you will see what Im talking about.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:22
@johnsom33: And in your inbox too. Makes me wonder why the new season cant come quicker so we get a chance at shutting up those fools.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:27
i just hope fergie makes those 1 or 2 signings sooner rather then later.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:28
you know what i dont want during this time, another ronaldo saga, i dislike him already if hear one peep out of him it better be i am out or i am in.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:28
@Stephen: Going way back to comments 54 and 55, i didnt say phelan picked the team though. What i said, or what i meant to say if i didnt explain clearly was fergie isnt a great tactical manager and he needs a strong assistant who is good with tactics. Part of the problem seems phelan is a yes man, so when fergie decided on going all sentimental and picking oshea and park and giggs, a strong assistant would have spoken up and said those players were not the correct players to pick. Ok i see why oshea was picked but playing giggs in a midfield 3, or park as the attacking winger on the right is pretty stupid tactics if you ask me. I think an assistant with a strong personality (not a yes man), who had good tactical knowledge would have made his feelings known and if fergie valued him enough he would have taken on board his assistants words if he felt the team wasnt good enough. But for fergie to still put out that team it means 2 things, either phelan agreed with the team which shows he like fergie has no tactical knowledge, or phelan made his point known about the team not being correct and fergie took no notice, but for my money i would go for the 1st theory.
Maybe your right though, maybe phelan played a part in our defensive good record but then he must also play a part in our attack getting worse mustnt he? The fact of the matter is i dont rate and every united fan ive heard from doesnt either. Maybe he doesnt make such a difference to this club i dont know, but from an outsider looking in he looks like a clueless idiot and i just dont see the players respecting an idiot like him. Thats my opinion and you can have yours mate but thats what i feel and i just would have more confidence and would feel alot better if i saw ole gunnar or even a cantona on the sidelines next to him instead of that bold, lost looking idiot.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:36
@ROOOOONEY: Its unavoidable my friend. Some one should convince RR and Stephen to do a news blackout on this site on that topic until the new season. For our sanity.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:42
@edwin: News blackout on Ronaldo Madrid nonsense until there is a picture of him standing in the Bernabau holding a shirt, or the season starts and he’s here….
Infact, anyone mentioning the 2 in the same post gets a 2 day ban!
(from here on in obviously
)
May 28th, 2009 at 17:45
@edwin: Park hasn’t got the brains to do anything but the patently bloody obvious mate, and even that he doesn’t do often enough
.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:47
May 28th, 2009 at 17:48
@Matt: My problem with Phelan is that he got the job because of who he is, not that he is the best man for it.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:50
@Craig Mc: It is rather cringeworthy to see Park on the field because you know you’re not gonna get much. (Apart from the odd goal, good performance which are too few and far between)
But every team needs a headless chicken, we have two thankfully, in Tevez and Park.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:52
@edwin: Edwin Bro, we have had all bloody season to SEE what and who our weaknesses are, we don’t need to FIND them. Any sad git of a coach woud surely have noticed by now. Midfield, Midfield, Midfield, and the left side of the pitch has needed sorting since day one, and the answer is not the Roon, that lads best position is behind main striker, or in front of main striker if playing for England. Capello can see that, but NOT Fergie, lets play putting square pegs in round holes patchwork quilt football. I mean just to confuse everybody right. Aaaaaah Fergie, gotta love ya, but you have been so wrong, so often this season, with formations. Yet lady luck has been on our side
.
May 28th, 2009 at 17:58
I’m as angry as anyone about our defeat, but once again Africa takes it a step further. Following on from the Kenyan Arsenal fan who hung himself after we beat them in the semis….. this madness!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8072356.stm
May 28th, 2009 at 18:13
So the jist of discussion…. 1. We need a new right back. 2. Phelan is to blame. 3. Anderson will become a legend. 4. Bring in (day light 50m) Ribbery. 5. Kick Berbatov out. I must say…. well done Sherlocks.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:16
@Brent: Spot on Brent mate, we do need somebody to LEAD. I didn’t see anybody from United shouting their fecking heads off and remonstrating with the players all around them. Truly we needed somebody to take our game by the scruff of the neck, and give a good few of the players around them a bollocking
. Find a productive NASTY GIT to FIRE our MF Fergie for goodness sake. All this from Anderson and others, we are a loving family and Fergie is like a big daddy to us all – PLEASE, how fecking sickening is that? We don’t need babies, get some TROJAN WARRIORS in, those who will eat the opposition for breakfast rather than get beaten. These latin players are as soft as shit. O please, you are disrespecting me, I need to be loved – is total garbage. Not to mention embarrasing to watch these poor little dears, as we had to last night. I feel gutted for the UNited faithful, who payed probably a years earnings to go and watch that Limp lettuce showing from our lads last night 
.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:20
@Traverse: Yes agree with that about phelan, not sure though why he was brought in to begin with. Im too young to ever remember him playing but from what ive heard he was a pretty useless player here, so why when he went into coaching did we bring in a guy who never did much for us even as a player. Just because they used to play for us doesnt mean we owe them anything really, harsh as that may sound. If we were offering coaching roles to every player that played for us we would have a coaching staff of 1000 players.
The thing with him i dont like is i never see him on the touchline shouting orders. Yesterday hes there slouched in his chair biting his nails, whats all that about. Would that inspire confidence into you or would a guy like that command respect. Maybe we get away with it cos fergie is so good in the other areas but i cant help but feel an assistant with a bit of brains in the tactics department would help us enormously, which sadly is a part of the game fergie fails in imo.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:20
@R: Your so intelligent at working things out R, I would say you are at Mensa levels really
. Think you got the right gist of things said though 
.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:24
@Craig Mc: You are right, rarely was our midfield been top class last season (with the exception of, of course, the Chelsea game) Id like to see more of your man Nani, and as little of Park as is humanely possible. But we do need some cover on that left side and a DMF. Im hoping for Veloso.
)
(An FM favourite of mine.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:24
You’ve all heard about the CREDIT CRUNCH – right?, now time for a bollocks crunch, for the softies among the players at OT – OUCH
.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:25
@Dan: Iniesta is half the player Xavi is. And neither is Messi. And all of us don’t care what you say either Dan.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:28
@edwin: So how come you and I aren’t being paid the millions of pounds to sort out the team deficiences at OT Edwin?
. I haven’t seen Veloso much, is he A HARD TACKLING MF with a creative touch????
May 28th, 2009 at 18:32
@Craig Not exactly. Forgot to add the honourary mention of- Evra is a fraud. And same to you about the intellect part.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:32
@Craig Mc: Problem is there isnt too many of those leader kind of players around at the minute. Right now i would bloody kill half the squad to get keane in his prime. He wouldnt have tolerate some of the crap the players have played this year.
Its been mentioned before but another player i would have loved in the team yesterday would have been none other than juan seba veron. The man got alot of unfair stick imo, but looking at the way the team plays especially in europe it looks ready made for the argentine. Just my opinion but had we had veron and keane in their prime playing yesterday in that midfield 3 i could not have seen any other winner than us. Watching barcas midfield 3 yesterday actually made me really depressed, the way they stroked the ball around with precision and ease compared to our slow and old unmotivated midfield was really painful to watch. Real changes in personnel or players attitudes need to occur. The likes of giggs and scholes must be used sparingly and the likes of ando and carrick really need to buck up their ideas or they may be on the way out. A real AM with passing technique and goal scoring capabilites is a must but i really cannot see fergie bringing them in, probably will stick with giggs and scholes.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:33
@Traverse: They don’t have any lock up asylums for the insane in Nigeria probably, so plenty of loonies probably at large. Most Nigerians are sound people though, so not to tar all with same brush!
May 28th, 2009 at 18:37
@R:
, I’m not an Evra fan R, as you will have gathered, I want him GONE 
. Otherwise, we agree on us having football brains that are a genius level 
.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:37
Does anyone feel Park would be better off playing LB or RB?
I’m pretty sure he would do a much better job than Evra?
May 28th, 2009 at 18:38
@Grognard: lol, im being serious, had iniesta not been playing in that barca team, it would have been a different outcome.
We NEED hargreaves, he and anderson/carrick will be our midfielders for the next few seasons, i dont think fergie will sign a midfielder. He’ll sign either benzema, or valencia/ribery and move ronaldo upfront. I hope he signs benzema, because y=i cant imagin valencai coming good in a champions league final like yesterday.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:39
@karma: the prat cant even tackle, hes light weight, and can read the game like a blind man to a book
park isnt good in any position.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:43
@edwin: Thing is though Edwin, on their day, our energiser bunnies Tev and Park, can play a great game, but over 90 minutes in last 20 minutes of games, their shizzle almost always FIZZLES and the batteries run down.
.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:48
@karma: I was just saying that yesterday to a mate. The guy does a sound defensive job but aint good enough attacking wise so why not use him as a RB or LB or in some defensive position anyway. The guy offers nothing as an attacking force, seeing him play in a front 3 and his job still being tracking back and defending is pathetic, compare that to henry on the left who stayed forward all game and theres the difference between us and barca. We used to play just like barca, seems now we are like bloody liverpool, we can be so painful to watch at times and its the inclusion of the players like park that have done this.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:48
@Johnsom33: Great point. Barcelona is not flexible in any way. They attack attack attack. That may actually be too arrogant and stupid but it works for them because of the kind of attack they use and because of the high skill set of their player. Now look at our club. Evra cannot make a pass that reaches it’s destination target if his life depended on it. O’Shea is just a utility player starting because Brown was not fit for most of the season and because Rafael is too young and inexperienced. Carrick can pass with the best of them but is too slow footed and reacts slowly. Anderson is an idiot who can make a long distance through ball work occasionally in the Prem but has a hard time making a ten yard pass to a fellow midfielder. Giggs is too slow and for all his skill and vision, his passing skills have fallen off greatly the past two seasons. Scholes is a passing master but lets face it, statues are not good at scaring opponents. He’s stiff and hardly moves any more.
Fletcher is a decent player but hardly a world class play maker. Park is an absolute joke offensively and his inclusion in any of our starting lineups is a glaring distress call that Fergie has lost the plot and that cowardice and senility are merging together and turning his mind into a paranoid version of Jello Pudding.
These are all players starting for Man Utd. Most are good players but are nowhere in the caliber of players like Xavi, Iniesta and players that didn’t even play yesterday like Alves and Abidal. I won’t even get into comparing forwards. They have great forwards but sorry, so do we. We might bitch and complain that ours don’t score as much but I still would take Ronaldo over Messi and Rooney over either Henry or even Etoo. As for Tevez, well he offers us a lot of energy and intangibles but goal scoring is not his forte. He is only an average goal scorer and coming off the bench yesterday in a Champions League final where we were losing like in 1999 we needed a Solksjaer and a Sheringhame and instead we got Tevez and Mr. Sominex Berbatov. I like Berbatov but only as a starter. He is not everyone’s cup of tea but he has great skill on the ball and great vision. What he doesn’t have though is great pace, desire and this year he hasn’t had great finishing ability. So why would I even bring him on late in a final when we need a goal? I would have brought on a Welbeck or Macheda who at least are hungry and chase the ball and show some urgency in the game. Berbatov is more suited to our style and game plan when the score 0-0 or we are up a goal.
So obviously we are not as sound and as skilled at certain positions like Barcelona. They rock in the center of midfield and at both fullback spots and their forwards are as good and may be better goal scorers than ours. Well as a team we are better defensively than them, although you would not have known that based on yesterday’s performance, but offensively we are light years away from the beautiful fast one touch football that they play and the confidence in that system that they use that led them 104 goals in La Liga and helped them climb every mountain in the Champions League. They were lucky against Chelsea but in the end, they are a credit to football and yesterday they beat Fergie’s Italian anti football mantra which had ruined this season for me and for many others. They exposed us for the frauds that we were because in the end, we lost because we never had as many world class player on the pitch as they did. Fergie was taught a valuable lesson. If you are going to borrow a style of play from the continent to utilize and admire Gaffer, borrow Barcelona’s, not AC Milan’s.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:50
@Traverse:
, I agree!
May 28th, 2009 at 18:52
@Beachryan: I find it funny how you can put down Puyol for acting and feigning injury when Ronaldo does it five times every frakken game. I never hear you placing the label girly man on him. And as great as he is, he is the epitome of a girly man. But at least for now we can say he is still our girly man.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:55
@magno: Rooney’s passing was poor all game and he had no spark or drive in his game like he usually has. I expected him to come out the second half along with Tevez as men possessed. Instead he was the same. He just never had it yesterday and he also didn’t have it in his last game in the EPL. He looked mentally and physically wasted and ten days off wasn’t going to change that.
May 28th, 2009 at 18:57
@PHIL C: For the good daysto really return Phil, we need to get rid of this pedestrian type SNOOZE football we have been dished up by Fergie and our team this past season. What happened to the devestating to opposition teams, of our fast furious football finesse from the season before? I’ll accept any answers on a postcard please
.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:01
@Stephen: Oyh for Wes Brown to have been on the field last night! He would have scared the shit out of Barca’s attack with his AGGRESIVE TACKLING. ‘Bite your legs’ Wes, and Hargo we need back and QUICK
.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:04
@Scorp: Carrick sucked but Carrick is still a good player that is being asked to do too much. Xavi and Iniesta are not asked to do the workload Carrick is because they usually have Busquets or Keita or Yaya Toure to do the dirty work. Carrick’s slow footedness really hurts him when he plays to far back and when he is asked to do the yeoman’s duties. Yes definitely, a Hargreaves partnering him would be an ideal solution as long as Fergie saw fit to moe Carick forward more and lessen his defensive duties a bit. He still would be expected to track back but his emphasis would change from defensive duties first to offensive duties. A Hargreaves next to him would allow him to relax a bit and you would see a marked improvement in his passing. Xavi and Iniesta haven’t got a worry because they know those other blokes have things covered defensively. They are artists who are allowed to paint away and create rather than being given a paint by numbers book and told to stay within the lines like Carrick is being told.
It’s time for Fergie to scrap his Italian plan and go to another more adventurous and more offensive system. Playing Barcelona style will not work for us right now because we don’t have the players in the midfield or at fullback who can handle it. But building towards that over the next couple of years a with a few purchases every year can help us get back and make a positive statement in the final before Fergie hangs them up. I want him to retire knowing his team played great football and entertained us all. Not the crap we have been watching this season and the garbage display we were forced to cry though yesterday.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:04
@David: Couldn’t agree with you more mate
.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:06
@Craig Mc: Id love those millions too bro!
But Veloso is a good tackler and quite solid positionally (in my opinion, which was infulenced by watching the player and his stats on FM)
I forgot, we do have cover on the left, we just have to see how well Tosic does before we go spending. Oh and Ljalic. He can play everywhere in midflield right? or is it just attacking mid?
May 28th, 2009 at 19:09
@Beachryan: OK, before I even continue to read the rest of your lengthy post let me come right out and say you are wrong about EDVS. Yesterday I counted him making 4 fantastic saves when we were down 1-0 that kept us in the game and then he pulled off another one when we were down 2-0. He literally kept us in the game because we were pear shaped in the back four and in taters. I agree we need to find another keeper like a Boruc, Adler, Neuer, Akinfeev, Frey etc but lets be fair to the old Dutchman, he was not to blame on either goal yesterday and he still almost stopped the first as he got a good piece of it. If he had protected more of that short side, the whole far side would have been exposed for Etoo. So lets be fair to him.
And Cech would have made a mess of all the crosses in the box and would have cost us more. If you haven’t noticed, Cech has become a major liability for Chelsea of late.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:11
@Karl: Bro we can’t play one touch football with these players, because apart from odd one or two, the majority of our players DON’T HAVE A FIRST TOUCH. They invariably let the ball roll away from them – and Barca gave us a football lesson in receiving and passing the ball in one, and in perfect control.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:15
@edwin: Another good thing about veloso is he can strike a mean free kick.
As for ljalic, he plays AM as his natural position but he can also play on the right wing, not sure about the left wing though. Am really looking forward to seeing this kid, comes in jan though which is a bit far away and will probably be in the reserves for a year before we really see him.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:27
@Matt: Seen a couple of those freekicks. Lovely stuff.
As for Ljalic, i cant wait to see him either. Our scouts have been quality of late, and id like to see the fruits of their labour. (namely Ljalic and Tosic)
May 28th, 2009 at 19:30
@edwin: its spelt ljajic
May 28th, 2009 at 19:35
@Dan: Is it? I always thought it was Ljalic!
Silly me.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:41
@Beachryan: First off, Evra is young but he certainly does not have all the tools. The Craig proclaimed “Skinned Sausage” is weak at covering, quite often finds himself out of position (like yesterdays first goal), is dumb as nails and often makes stupid and blind clearances right to the opposition (like yesterdays second goal) and can’t make a telling pass or cross if his life depended on it. Add to that a terrible first touch and only adequate dribbling ability and I fail to see what it is about the guy that makes you feel he has talent?
Please, I and a lot of other on here are very confused by that mate.
As for our midfield, I noticed you forgot or intentionally omitted Scholes. I would have too.
The rest of them combined to not match up with Barcelona, Chelsea, Liverpool and several other teams in European football. Fletcher is nothing more than a good utility midfielder. Hargreaves is super but a major question mark hangs over his head. Can he come back and be the player he was or even better? Carrickhas talent but is also slow and his lack of pace and reaction time has been exposed. Anderson is nothing more than a useless dread locked git who has been built up into something he is not. He’s not even a footballer. Frak, the player looks so uncoordinated when he passes or shoots the ball he reminds me of myself when I tried to play the game many moons ago. That one time where he fanned on a pass yesterday spoke volumes to me about his uncoordinated lack of skill and his poor mechanics not too mention his pea sized intellect. The guy is a shit pate. I’d go tot he Manchester docks and throw him overboard.
That leaves us with Park. The first guy I would bring on if we need to suppress a team’s winger or if we need to stop our attack from embarrassing the opponent with goals. Park will make sure he puts the breaks on our attack with his lack of skill, lack of vision, lack of leg length and his ability to water slide on his ass for most of the game. Basically a one dimensional utility player who shouldn’t see more than ten to twelve games a year of action. Now how about Giggs. He’s lost his pace, his skills have fallen off a bit and his vision no longer seems tuned in with his skills as he rarely makes a big play or pass. He still is decent though but because of his age he needs to be rested much more and start only sparingly. He needs to be a sub 95% of the time. Scholes? Still a great passer of the ball with fantastic vision but the motor no longer runs and he cannot move or keep up with anyone. His shooting which one time was lethal has started to resemble Mr. Anderson for ineptitude, although in fairness, he’d have to get both feet amputated to be more like Anderson. Bottom line, is he is washed up and it’s time to retire and take Anderson with him. As for Gibson. Very young and has a lot to learn but has great potential as does Possebon. I also look forward to seeing what Adem Llajic has to offer. Is he the real deal?
Our forwards are a mixed bag of nuts. Despite your assertion that Berbatove is an attacking midfielder, I disagree. He is a CF and that is all he will ever be. He lacks the pace, urgency and the defensive ability to ever be a midfielder. He is a slow, languid, but highly skilled player with great vision, average finishing ability and is clearly worth half of what we paid for him. His first touch and ball control are all fantastic but at the end of the day it never really ends up to anything because whatever he does that is positive, always seems to be too far away from goal. He spends very little time in the box and for me, that is a major flaw. Rooney, well Rooney is Rooney. Truly a great gifted player that has flaws but his positives and his desire and courage make up for all of that. He’s fantastic. Ronaldo? The best player in the world despite Messi’s great year. Ronaldo has it all. What he doesn’t have is a humble and likable personality and the loyalty I would want from anyone wearing united red. If he cannot commit long term to us and shut his fucking trap about wanting a move, then let him fucking go and be done with it. I for one am sick and tired of this theater of the absurd after every CL final. He needs to grow up and shut up. Tevez? See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya. Too bad this hgard working valuable asset is owned like a cicus monkey and allows himself to be played by an agent who gives not one ounce of a damn for him. Instead he bitches and complains about Fergie and the club disrespecting him. No mate it is Joorabchian that disrespects you and treats you like his bitch. It’s also your lack of finishing that has landed you on the bench in favor of other alternatives. Yes you are a great little player but trust me Carlito, you are not the cat’s meow.
And finally, a quick work about the rest of our defense. Neville, retire for Christ sakes and give us all a break. You were average at your very best and now you are just a bag of rotting shite. Have the class to hang them up and give the captaincy to somebody who not only deserves it more, but starts games unlike your useless candy ass. Never liked you couldn’t give a rats ass about you. Sorry if that offends Nev fans but I am just being honest. Other than Evra who I have discussed, the rest of the defense is rock solid even if they sucked yesterday.
May 28th, 2009 at 19:54
@Traverse: You seem to think that every dollar we make from winning or losing a tournament or league is placed immediately in the transfer kitty. You are wrong mate. The glazer’s have a massive debt to look after and the club has other bills and staff to pay on a year round basis. The money we have to buy new players 30 million per year. That’s it. Any other money comes from the selling of players and that is it. So if you feel we can go out there and spend 50 million to buy Johnson who we do not need as well as Ribery who will cost more than 40 million, then you are either dreaming or are delusional. Get a grip mate, it doesn’t work like that. The only chance and it’s a remote one to boot, that we can get Ribery completely depends on whether we sell Ronaldo. It will be a minor miracle if you ever see Ribery and Ronaldo playing together on United.
And rather than concentrate on Johnson and Ribery, why not look for a better LB if there is one because I’ll bet that more than half the goals we gave up as a team this year were caused by the stupidity and inadequacy of one Patrice Evra. O’Shea and Brown as well as Rafael are more than enough at RB. And as for Ribery, I think Valencia can cover that spot more than adequately and for one quarter of the price. I also feel that it is in the center of midfield where the big bucks should be spent. Even if Hargo comes back healthy, we need depth and quality there because Scholes and Giggs are finished and Anderson never even got started. Carrick, Fletcher and an unproven Gibson is all we have there. In order to buy what we need we need to cut some weight of our budget. Sell Anderson, Nani and force Neville and Scholes into retirement. That will give us the 50 million we need. Then watch Fergie pull a boner and spend it all on Benzema.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:00
Gourcuff signed a four year contract with Bordeaux.
Good for him and good that l’poop and others don’t get him.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:01
@Grognard: thank god, i thought i was the only one that noticed this about evra! give me lahm any day of the week, or fucking fabio! Heck, De laet aint to bad either!
May 28th, 2009 at 20:03
@Traverse:
“The big thing we need is a left winger who is as good as our right winger. Or atleast close. Nobody fits this better than Ribery. Pay whatever it costs. If he goes to someone else, we’ll regret it and spend more than half of his worth on someone half as good.”
I love Ribery. I’d love to have him but seriously, did you watch yesterday’s game. Where do you think we lost that game, on the wings? We lost that game in the middle of the park where Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets had their way with Anderson, Giggs and Carrick. They bloody well made a meal of them and it was embarrassing to look at. A great team cannot beat anther great team with an adequate central midfield. And that’s all we have, and average and adequate central midfield. Sure a winger on the left side would be nice but it isn’t necessary to have the best wingers in the world as bookends to utilitarian midfielders who cannot provide support and service. Remember, the continental game is not about width, it’s about slow precise penetration up the middle with the occasional forage upfield from a wide position. 4-4-2 is dead my friend. You throw a Xavi in the center of our midfield and watch us hum like birds. Ribery would be nice but he would not have been able to help us win yesterday. Only a Hargreaves could have helped yesterday.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:03
Gourcuff, the exact type of player we need and he signs for some second rate french club for a measly £15mil.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:04
@Stephen: I also hear there is a very strong possibility he stays at Bayern.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:05
@Grognard: Mate.. Benzema and Rooney cannot play in the same team.. Fergie isn’t an ass you know….
He knows we need a midfield.. I know that we all are negative here.. But Fergie isn’t mad.. He knows what we need…
Heck.. United have even enquired about Ribery.. Uli whats his name of bayern said it HIMSELF!
So don’t worry.. We are talking about Ferguson…
I’m just worried about Ronaldo though.. The best player in the world.. To me.. He was the United captain yesterday.. Focused on the task and started with a flier.. Unfortunately his team let him down.. BIG TIME!
I want him to stay.. But i don’t know whats going on in his mind…
May 28th, 2009 at 20:06
@Stephen: If Carlos comes into the game yesterday and saves our bacon, he forces United into buying him whether they want it or not. Or at least he forces them into agreeing to buy him, He still may not want to come. But yesterday he came in and worked hard but really made nothing happen. Therefore, I feel his passport was stamped and he’s on his way out of OT.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:11
@Karl: The reason we played long ball mate is because they never had the legs to keep up with Barcelona. You could not out run them and we are not good at one touch football like we used to be.
Yesterday we looked like fat slobs trying to run with Usain Bolt. We were embarrassingly slow in the center. Watching Anderson and Carrick and especially Giggs trying to keep up with Xavi, Iniesta and even Busquets was frustrating and sorry to see. We lacked the speed and quickness to play little ball with them so we became Hull City over 90 minutes and looked like a minnow who wasn’t even capable of parking the bus. How bad is that?
May 28th, 2009 at 20:12
@Grognard: Just a quick question i wanted to ask you cos i know your a fan of bayern. Have they signed that ukrainian lad i think he was who played for zenit. He looked quality when i saw him play a few times this season, and i heard he signed a contract to sign for them this summer. Just wondered if the deal went through or am i thinking bout someone else? Whatever it is bayern are bringing in some quality players and with a good coach like van gaal in charge bayern could be a big challenger for the champions league next year.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:14
why are we getting adem in jan?
May 28th, 2009 at 20:15
@Stephen: You know the old saying mate, “Stats are for losers”. Never has that been more evident.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:17
@Grognard: You know thinking back, why didnt we just play rooney and berbatov up top? rooney would have dropped off more if we needed help in the midfield as he always does, ronadlo would have made puyol look like shit(even though his face does already), i just dont know.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:18
Fergie, despite what we want, will not be signing thet midfielder we want, he has complete faith in hargreaves. What i am certain off, is that he’ll sign a winger/striker, tevez stayed in rome, which all but confirms hes leaving, that frees up about £35mil. we will sell some fringe players like we do every season, that will give us another £5-15mil, plus with all the trophies we’ve won, about half of that money will go into the kitty, thats probably another £20-25mil, giving us a minimum off £60mil, and a maximum off £75mil, remember, this is just rough guesses of what we’ve won, who we will sell, how much we had for tevez and how much the glazers are prepared to give us. I reckon it its somwhere near my maximum estimate, the glazers will take off about £25mill, and leave us with £50mil, in fact anything over £50mil the glazers will take it, and leave us witg £50mil.
I reckon fergie will try and get benzema for roughly £35mil, and valencia for £17 mil. These numbers dont add up, so i reckon they’ll both be slightly less, and packed with terms and clauses that will bump the price up as we go on.
I think ive been playing FM09 to long, but i do think im on atleast the right track on how fergie and the glazers will go about their business this summer.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:19
@the Count: Nice post there Count. I agree with nearly everything you said. I thought you were being a little kind with Park but overall, well said.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:21
@ROOOOONEY: Because the serbian league finishes later in the year.
Im hoping/praying there is a clause in the contract that allows him to come in, in the summer rather then january.
Wow, we’re all hoping that ljajic becomes our saviour
May 28th, 2009 at 20:23
@ROOOOONEY: You demand an answer to the way we lost. Hell, Fergie doesn’t know why we lost. All he could come up with was our defense was shabby and Barcelona were the better team. What he should have come out and said is that he got the tactics all wrong, our defense was shabby, our central midfield was an embarrassment, out hustled and out muscled and our forwards other than Ronaldo all took the night off. What more do you want? We sucked mightily and we paid for it.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:25
What I’ve been saying all along about Rooney, but with probably better wording:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/may/28/wayne-rooney-manchester-united-champions-league
May 28th, 2009 at 20:28
@donibrasco: Fergie got it wrong yesterday but EXPOSED for lack of tactics?
Please! Hardly the case. Was he exposed against Arsenal or Inter or Porto away or Chelsea etc? No. Yesterday he made a rare mistake and lets face it, it was the players that lost the game yesterday because none of them showed up. There wasn’t a tactic invented that could have shot us to victory yesterday because every player’s biorhythm was on low. We don’t have to always like his tactics but his tactics got us this far. What he need was for the players to come out like hungry and determined professionals, not like the scared deer that saw the headlights on the highway and froze out of ear before getting run over by the Barcelona steamroller. Lets call it for what it was. It was a gut and soul check that our players failed yesterday. And shockingly so.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:28
” an answer ” i meant that we do well next season, what makes me sad is that they had a patched up defense and we never tested them. we are so used to winning it leaves even more of a bitter taste.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:30
i read that article few mins ago its how i feel about rooney as well
May 28th, 2009 at 20:31
@johnsom33: It’s not hate. It’s disappointment and it’s just confirmation by many of us of what we have thought were inadequacies with our team all season. Some choose Berbatov, others like me choose Evra, Park and especially Anderson, others blame EVDS, or Carrick or Rooney etc. It’s just frustration and disappointment mate. Let them all be and we will eventually get over it.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:33
@Matt: Phelan has fuck all to do with tactics and style of play. All he does is put them through their round of training and follows Fergie play book to a tee. Fergie takes full responsibility for everything. If Phelan can be blamed for anything it’s probably the inability to offer new ideas and concepts in tactics to round out Fergie’s plan like Queiroz was able to do. Phelan is nothing more than a coach that follows his boss’ orders.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:35
@edwin: The headless chicken theory huh? I offer the headless turkey. Mr. Anderson.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:36
I am glad this season ended the way it did, it could have been a lot worse, imagine liverpool winning the league thats more sickening, all our wins were stressful it was a very stressful season tiring till the last min. we knew we could do better but we didnt we always settled for ” getting by ” and we got caught at the end.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:39
@Dan: I’d settle for R2D2 at LB over Evra.
And Dan, don’t you read our posts anymore? Craig and I have been down and loud about Evra for a very long time. We both despise the “Skinned Sausage”. 
May 28th, 2009 at 20:43
@Grognard: id rather take a rock, at least it cant get skinned
May 28th, 2009 at 20:44
Grognard, would you like to see Ribery at OT next season?
May 28th, 2009 at 20:46
@Darth Red Diablo: Captain doe not mean he has to be the best player on the pitch. Yes he led by example but he never supported his teammates and his lack of defensive workethic along with Evra gave Barca the second goal. A captain is leader by example and by the whip. He’ll shout and get in his teammates face if they fuck up. Ronaldo just curses and shakes his head. Petulance is not a prerequisite for captaincy. Rooney is more of a captain and I personally would pick Vidic over everyone. That said the guy I really would prefer because he has all the qualities isn’t available until next year. For me the quintessential captain is Owen Hargreaves. Leads by example, respected by all his teammates, can guide and scream a good game on the field and is always in touch with the realities of the situation. He also earns and deserves respect with his approach professionalism and demeanor.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:47
@Grognard: yea, i know about the skin sausage
May 28th, 2009 at 20:52
@Matt: Yes Bayern have agreed to a contract with Tymoschuk of Zenit. He will be coming to Bayern as well as Mario Gomez, Olic, Baumjohann and I’m sure a few others. Apparently Manuel Neuer turned them down and so now they are looking at my favorite Artur Boruc. I also think they are looking for a defender and another central midfielder and if they sell Ribery, will look to replace him. A possibility if they sell him to Real would be Schnejder coming back in the deal. It’s going to be an interesting off season for them as they reshape the team for van Galls liking. Yes they will be a threat because they will be adding better goalkeeping and grit to their team and Gomez is much more prolific and hungry to score than the moody Podolski who was a major bust for them. The key for them in the Champions League though is keeping Ribery. Without him, they are not going to do it.
May 28th, 2009 at 20:56
@Dan: None of it would have made a difference because the weakness was ventral midfield mate. They controlled th ball and had the touch and quickness in the middle that just dissected us and put us on our heels all game long. Puyol started his career at RB and so he was no embarrassment back there. He never offered Alves ability to attack but he was actually better than Alves in defense. I just thought not having played there for a long time would affect him. It didn’t. And rather than pick on him, I would have sent Ronaldo to the right to pick on Sylvinho instead. He’s much more suspect than Puyol ever would be.
May 28th, 2009 at 21:17
@NicoQB: Funny people are bringing that up now. Only recently Fergie was being hailed as a genius for working out the best position for Rooney — which was the left wing.
He was marked out of it fair and square. Even the best in the world can get marked out easily on bad days. It’s just that our entire side completely lost their mojo after 10 minutes.
May 28th, 2009 at 21:21
Lol, is anyone watching britains got talent, its live, you got one geezer constantly shouting out, i think he said something along the lines of “simon you twat” LOL, and a girl shouting out “I LOVE YOU JULLIAN!” lol, live TV, you cant beat it!
May 28th, 2009 at 21:32
@Grognard: Bayern want boruc eh, well its about time, every time ive seen bayern since kahn left the keeper they have had has looked like crap. They play that rensing dont they, dunno if hes a good keeper overall but everytime ive seen him hes looked absolute kack. Bit like kuszack, ok but nothing great and defo not first team material. Like i say i dont know if hes good overall but in the 5/6 times ive seen him hes looked rubbish.
Boruc is a pretty good keeper, if he really is available we should at him, with van der sar coming near 40 and pig not good enough and foster unjury prone i think he would be a good signing, probably would be pretty cheap too.
May 28th, 2009 at 21:41
i, sorry grognard, dont rate boruc particularly highly. He is ok at best with reaction saves, and commands the defence well, but i think he lacks concentration, he has made some pretty big howlers in the past, thats something i think is vital in a keeper. Further more, he looks very ordinary, in my eyes, in a less then satisfactory standard league.
Thats how i feel about him anyway.
May 28th, 2009 at 21:59
@Red Ranter: Not me! Basically everytime Rooney got into his “scoring spurts” he played as second/ support striker. His confidence depends on his scoring, so recently he’s been poor also when it comes to creating for others.
Even Capello and Fergie ackowledged it, but he’s been scarificed time and again to allow for ronaldo’s more central role, a tactic which more often than not bombed against top class opposition.
I’m convinced that had it not been to Ronaldo’s big ego, CR7 could have played as a true midfielder, RM most probably and with Rooney up front and either Berba or Tevez, we’d certainly have more bite than what we’ve displayed recently with Rooney on the left.
May 28th, 2009 at 22:05
@Grognard: Errrr Ronnie a girly man – feck me I don’t think so Grog. Did you see his body when he ripped off his shirt after the third comeback goal against Spurs? He has a body as massive as the Incredible HULK, and bulging muscles GALORE. He look like NO Girlie I have ever seen
.
May 28th, 2009 at 22:23
@Craig Mc: mate, you sound like the girls at my school talking about ronaldo like that
May 28th, 2009 at 22:29
@Craig Mc: Wearing hot pants for one is a questionable fashion choice
May 28th, 2009 at 22:34
picture this, greedevev signs for pool and scores 20 league goals, 2 of which against united, how would you feel?
I would think tevez never cared for us at all, to score 20 league goals for the scouse and a shitty 4 or 5 for us.
I can imagine him scoring loads for any other team, but not us!
May 28th, 2009 at 22:34
@Red Ranter: hot pants AND shaved legs, make off it as you will…
May 28th, 2009 at 22:45
@Dan: Dan bro.. I have MAJOR doubts on you!!!!
May 28th, 2009 at 22:48
Teve future to be decided soon? I would like to see how his supporters would react if he joined the enemy.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article6383259.ece
May 28th, 2009 at 23:02
@Darth Red Diablo:
May 28th, 2009 at 23:09
Didn’t kknow that Evra was at fault for both of the goals…
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sport/clfinal_talkingtactics.pdf
May 28th, 2009 at 23:59
@Dan: I was just trying to get thru to Grog how my GF and all her girlie mates see Ronnie, and believe me it isn’t as a girlie GUY
. Look at Boney Torres, and then at the shirtless Ronnie, I mean come on Torres looks more girlie surely, although they are both pretty boys as the GF says. You trying to tell me something Dan 
.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:04
@Red Ranter: Hotpants??????? I haven’t got your meaning Bro. Are you saying Ronnie wears HOT pants, if so I didn’t see that one coming
. When was that then?
May 29th, 2009 at 0:16
@Dan: Rubbish tv.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:19
@Matt: Rensing is a joke and his backup’s last name, Butt says it all. I’m surprised that they never went after Boiruc this past season because Klinsmann has always been a big fan of his because of his incredible performance against Germany in WC 06. Poland lost in the last minute 1-0 but Boruc kept it from being 6-0 with amazing save after amazing save. For me the second best pure shot stopper alive after Cech, but much better in the air on high balls than Cech. Now that his personal troubles are a thing of the past (nasty divorce), his head is back in the game and he is for me among the top keepers in the world.
As for United going after him. I stopped singing that song long ago because Fergie has his head up his ass when it comes to judging keepers of late. He likes calamity types like Kameni.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:26
@Dan: I don’t care what you like Dan simply because you base your facts on highlights and a few games. If you have seen Boruc play over 50 times like me, you would see that he is one of the VERY BEST reaction shot stoppers alive. I rate only Cech and possibly Casillas over him. He decent on high balls and his distribution and long kicks are great. Where he falters is in focus and concentration at times because like most keepers, he can have a real clanger once in a while. Earlier this season he struggled with his focus because he was going through a nasty divorce. Since then he has rebounded and has kept Celtic who have lost their scoring touch in games with great reaction save after great reaction save. Your argument is just as bad as the one you have for Huntelaar. They just keep playing well and you keep putting them down. So sorry mate but I couldn’t care less if you like because I do not respect or agree with your player assessment, for very good and valid reasons. But fear not, I still love ya despite your blindness mate.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:29
@Craig Mc: Girly man as a definition has nothing to do with physique Craig. It’s got to do with attitude and mentality. He’s a diver and dram queen and for that he is a classic girly man. And Bro, I’m worried about you. Sounds like he gives you a bit of a chubby.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:31
@Red Ranter: I bet you he doubles as tranny at Portuguese nightclubs.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:34
@NicoQB: Ya right. I bet you Fergie and Gill are halfway to the airport and off on their three week vacations like last year while all Hell breaks lose with Tevez and especially Ronaldo. Meanwhile Ribery, Benzema and anybody else we are interested in will be signed by other teams because our head boys are off wanking on their vacations. Sure they deserve vacations but after the business of buying and selling players is done, and not a day before that.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:37
@Grognard: If we’d have had a real left winger, Rooney would have been through the middle, and Ronaldo on the right. We lost the game by playing people out of position, against players who are very good at playing their positions.
And yes I agree, Hargreaves would have quite the difference. Giggs played far too far forwards, considering he was coming in to replace Fletcher.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:38
@Craig Mc: He’s a girly man Craig. He’s a regular Antonio Banderas. Actor willing to do anything for the role……if you get my jest. In case you don’t, Banderas played in a lot of Spanish gay films before he made it on the heterosexual side in Hollywood. And women are always keen on guys who look like girls. It’s the inner Lesbian in them calling out. And Torres and Ronaldo bring out the inner Lesbian in women, trust me.
May 29th, 2009 at 0:41
@Traverse: Fine but that would not have changed the outcome of the game because defensively we were a shambles because our midfield up the middle was played like a pimp taming his bitches on a hot summer day. We lost the game up the middle mate. We could have had George Best out there with Gerd Mueller and Pele up front and would have lost. Nothing happens unless the center of midfield (aka the engine room) is functioning well.
May 29th, 2009 at 1:04
All I’m saying is, it didn’t help. And you can’t be sure. Who’s to say with Rooney as an outlet rather than Ronaldo, and with Rooney dropping off on occasion through the middle to pick at the ankles of Iniesta and Xavi that Carrick wouldn’t have been more confident?
In actual news, Tevez didn’t come back with us from Rome. Wasn’t on the plane. He is 100% not staying.
May 29th, 2009 at 1:23
@Craig Mc:
Definition of hotpants.
Here’s an example
May 29th, 2009 at 1:24
@Grognard: And here we were thinking that it was the fat Ronaldo with the trannies.
May 29th, 2009 at 3:33
@Red Ranter: When you really think about it, the name Ronaldo is kind of gay. It just sounds wrong. Can you imagine Ronaldo dating Ronaldo? EEEH YUK!
May 29th, 2009 at 3:39
Looks like we are making our first signing of summer….. Josh Thompson.
Some young centre back from Stockport…
May 29th, 2009 at 4:06
Guys
With so many people clamoring for a midfield general – How do you people rate Marouane Fellaini? I think he cud be a very interesting signing for us! With him probably we can even play 4-4-2!
And he and Carrick and Hargo can even play in 4-3-3! Probably much better first team choice than both Anderson and Fletch.
May 29th, 2009 at 5:16
@jos: Good opinions all around. I’ll wait for the dust to settle and see what off season manuevers we make. Fellaini cost Everton 15 million and based on his performances this season, they not only would be reluctant to sell him, but his stock has certainly risen, so purchasing him is out of the question. His former teammate, Steven Defour, would be an interesting option.
May 29th, 2009 at 8:14
@Red Ranter:
, I know what hotpants are Bro, I just didn’t see any pics of Ronnie wearing them, but oh well, we live and learn 
.
May 29th, 2009 at 8:25
@Traverse: Trav the man with the EYES! Yes, we did lose mate because of playing players out of position, but few people have mentioned that. Also, can anyone please tell me if Fergie got to the touchline to encourage our players to get their fingers out etc, because all I saw was Guardiola who NEVER seemed to leave the sidelines, it was like he was glued there, and pushing his players to Herculean efforts all the time. Fergie only seems to get animated when we are ahead in games. Or am I mistaken. Also I dont think Fergie is getting any respect from the latin players, they certainly don’t FEAR the great man it seems. Whenever players broke ranks at OT, and started mouthing off as the latin contingent plus skinned sausage have done regularly, at onetime not so long ago, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT THE DOOR!
May 29th, 2009 at 8:30
@Grognard: Dont start winding up the GF again with that kind of suggestive talk Bro. I’m working on her to marry me, and those comments are not helpful Bro. You trying to ruin my chances eh?
.
May 29th, 2009 at 8:35
@Craig Mc: Lol….
You proposed??
Or are you chicken???
May 29th, 2009 at 8:40
@Traverse: Played fergie, buy more youth and reserves, and forget about the areas on the pitch that need strengthening. I think fergie has become a “wengerphile”…
May 29th, 2009 at 9:54
@Craig Mc: We lost becuase we played poorly, no other reason, not becuase we are shit, tactics, Phelan, the manager, simply the players who played or not played as the case was simply did not turn up and perform.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:04
@jos: KlebAnderson as I will now call him is an awful player we should sell him and move on, what I loved was when he tried to pass the ball in the first half and completly missed the ball, thanks CQ £18.6m well spent.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:11
@Stephen: Rubbish, absolute rubbish, anderson is an excellent player with a bright future, if you cant see that then theres something wrong with your eyes.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:15
@Dan: Really an excellant player? Sorry mate then there truly is something wrong in my eyes mate, he can’t pass, shoot tackle sorry but this season he has been rubbish.
I know he is popular with some people but to me he simply is not United quailty, and for a midfield player not to score in two years really is poor.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:36
The players it looks like Fergie wants on their way according to todays Guardian are Park Ji-Sung, Nani and Tomasz Kuszczak. Paul Scholes could be asked to either retire or move on.
If we are insistent on playing 3 in midfield from now on, and 2 of those places belong to Hargreaves and Carrick, for £10mil we could do a lot worse than Gareth Barry. He’s definitely leaving Villa this summer (last year of contract), wants to play in the Champions League, and Liverpool are keeping Xavi Alonso.
May 29th, 2009 at 11:06
I am now atarting to believe the best thing is now for the old gaurd either move to a coaching role or to retire.
This should now be a water shed with the side, install Rio as the full time captain this will give all the players one person to look to rather than to dilute the role.
Really look at the midfield, Carrick is a top player, not world class in my eyes but a really decent player, but who else in the centre of midfield could you call world class now??
Fletcher, no, Scholes not at his age, Anderson will never be in my eyes but will love to be proven wrong, Giggs is not a centre mid and is too old, Gibson isn’t a will never be in my view, Hargo posibley but that is probably bias in my eyes.
Chelsea have Essien, Lampard and Ballack all world class, Liverpool have Mascherano, Stevie Me and posibly Alsonso as world class players. Arsenal have Fabregas, Barca have Iniesta, Xavi even Real have Sneijder and even Van der Vaart who I think is a cracking player.
We missed a trick with Diego going to Juve but this an area we need to sort out, we need a midfield general and a player who can either create or score we have Carrick who is a deep lying playmaker but we need someone further forward and enforcer, sorry rant over.
May 29th, 2009 at 11:50
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jzCyK2Y1tS5dopCiRMxZ6YPODO4w
I hate him, i hate him with a passion and a vengeance. He is completely dead to me, and the sooner he leaves, the better. He cam on at half time and did fuck all at best, but he thinks hes gods gift to united!
A classic case of a player thinking hes better then what he actually is. Hes not fit enough to lace verons boots.
May 29th, 2009 at 12:06
yay gigs is not retiring WOOO….NOT
May 29th, 2009 at 12:08
@Dan: Nobody has a god given right to be in our first team. Nobody. I’m done with Tevez. He can go and play 1000 games a season for Madrid and win nothing.
May 29th, 2009 at 12:10
@Mr.Muhozi: Very respectful
May 29th, 2009 at 12:27
WOW!!! I’m reading some intriguing stuff here… not just the usual defeat post-mortem but some complete 360’s with regards to some of our players. We had an off-day at the office, that was all!! We were naively set-up tactically and once they stunned us with that first goal, we just could not recover (Fergie included). It’s not because our players, who have proved without a doubt their outstanding quality all season, suddenly became shit. Jeez, from what i’m reading here, we should sell half of the squad that got us to the semi-final or further in every competition we entered this season??? Truly amazing stuff
I’m not saying we don’t need some issues addressed, yes we do, but only a few tweaks here and there and maybe one major addition. I believe Fergie will stick with this 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formation for some time as it seems to be the formation most of the big and successful teams are employing ( Barcelona, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal ), especially in Europe. If this is the case, I believe we just need Hargo back to partner Cazza in midfield. Fletch and Ando are more than capable back-ups. Upfront, I suggest we stick Rooney in the middle!! Either as the supporting striker in a 4-2-3-1 or the forward in a 4-3-3. This is not rocket science. We have seen what he has done in his career whenever he is played upfront or beter yet, paired with a striker. If tevez leaves, and I really want him to ( seen his latest comments? and we thought Ronnie was a twunt
); we should get a striker to complete the quartet of Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov, ?????. I would prefer Benzema as we know he can interchange between all the positions.
Our defence is perfect, wouldn’t alter it one bit. Foster should be played all through the pre-season schedule to see if he can consistently perform at a high standard without injury or major lapses in concentration. Most importantly, I really hope this one loss would not put a grey cloud over what has been a truly great season for the club. I mean, four amazing trophies and within sniffing distance of the other three. The fans, players and everyone else should recognise that.
May 29th, 2009 at 12:30
@Gabriel: Surely this stuff does nor surprise you? We should take one of these articles and stick it on the dressing room at Old Trafford.
May 29th, 2009 at 12:36
I am still reeling from defeat. The truth is we never really learnt our lesson from Milan. At Milan we got unstuck because Carrick is lightweight and we do not have a Makele/Essien/Keane type to break up play. So Barca went through our midfield like a knife through butter.
To be fair Barca got their tactics right playing Messi as a support striker. That messed us up because with Park and Rooney on the wings we were set up to neutralise Messi out wide so he destroyed us through the middle the same way Kaka did for Milan. Also Barcas defence was way better than ours which amazed me.
Really we thought we could destroy them like we destroyed Arsenal and Inter. But Barca are a class above those teams and we should have focused more on neutralising them and hoped for a wonder goal a la Scholes last year. Putting Tevez on for Anderson was suicide. But we just didn’t have any midfielders on the bench. We needed after the break to gain some control over the midfield, get more possession and carve out a few chances to give us a hope of getting to extra time. Instead Barca were able to dominate possession 2nd half and Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney were bystanders.
What I would have given to have had Hargreaves to mark Messi out of the game. But even then Carrick and Anderson wouldn’t have dealt with Iniesta and Xavi. Chelsea always had a better chance of beating Barca because although they are crap out wide, they have a strong centre with Essien, Ballack, Lampard.
We are a seriously unbalanced team. Our central midfield is average, our central defence is (usually) superb, our fullbacks are a bit lightweight (if I was Fergie id have thrown Brown into the mix or at least Evans because Rio and Vidic just looked sluggish out there). We have one amazing winger who we have to use as a striker because he is the only player who can put the ball in the back of the net. Our other winger of choice this season offers nothing offensively and while he regularly plays out of his skin today he just looked average. We have never been able to find a way to get the most out of Rooney and he still doesn’t score enough for a striker which is a problem because aside from Ronaldo no-one else can seem to score.
This is my prescription:
Buy Valencia on the cheap. Anything more than 15 million do not bother. He is physical, good offensively AND defensively. Ribery would be nice but we have more pressing concerns up front and in central midfield.
Buy a proper striker to play alongside either Rooney OR Berbatov. Both Rooney and Berbatov need a proper striker alongside them. Rooney and Berbatov doesn’t make a good partnership. I cannot think of anyone in particular but Benzema may be as good as anyone.
Buy another midfielder. We cannot rely on Hargreaves and Anderson should be a squad rotation player not starting in the final against the best central midfield in the world. While a creative midfielder would be nice I think we really need some steel in midfield. I want Hargreaves, Carrick and ANOTHER to be our first choice midfield, with Fletcher and Ando as BACKUP. Again names escape me but I think we missed a trick not buying Senna three years ago. Unfortunatey he is too old now.
To raise funds, first don’t buy Tevez, secondly sell Nani, thirdly sell Campbell (he is promising but we need a striker who can score 20 goals a season RIGHT NOW to take the pressure off Ronaldo) and if we can get £10-15 million for Evra Id take it! O’Shea can fill in at left back until Fabio is ready and Brown can resume service at right back.
May 29th, 2009 at 12:36
@Traverse: exactly! He really thinks hes that good, the stupid moronic twat thinks hes the best player at united, fucking park and evra(2 other annoying shitty players) seem to think this also. Fuck me, im done with the 3 of them, they think they’re above united, tevez would struggle in the stoke team, park isnt a good enough winger for hull, and evra is as over-rated as abidal, he has the control of a drunk man, and the crossing ability on par with park. Hes not even a great tackler, hes the skinned sausage!
May 29th, 2009 at 12:47
@Gabriel: Agree, major changes are not needed and to be honest i dont think everyone on here has been calling for a complete over haul but we have to be honest, there are a few players here that do need to be shown the door so we can bring in 2/3 more players.
In my opinion neville, scholes and giggs are well and truly finished. Im sorry they are legends and all but should they be kept because of this. Neville in my opinion is behind brown, rafael, even oshea, is it worth it having him as a 4th choice RB, im actually surprised by neville, infact all of them wanting to continue even though you would have thought they would realise most of their performances have been below par and what is expected at this club.
Scholes will do a job for the likes of the wigans at home and the teams who basically come to us and sit back all game. For away games though he gets people in his face and hes not the right pick for these kinds of games, so in my opinion say 10 games a season is all hes good for and is it worth having him for that? I hope the stoke rumours are true with him cos i think it would be best.
Giggs has won the PFA award this season and most people would say hes done excellent this season, he hasnt been excellent hes been ok imo. The guy still has a bit to offer, but as a sub player. When i look back and see that he was picked in the arsenal games, liverpool at anfield, chelsea at home (fair play he had a good game there) and against barca i cant help but feel in these big games hes not the right choice. Apart from the chelsea game i cant remember a good performance against one of the top teams, what im saying is 30 odd games here and there is fine against the little teams but he should be no where the teams like barca and chelsea and the game on wednesday proved this.
Also out needs to be kuszcak, park and a few of the players like simpsons, gibsons etc. That sounds alot of players out but its mostly squad players, the first team would be very much the same. Tevez out for benzema, a top quality central midfielder and we would be sorted. Of course if ronaldo goes we need a few more replacements but looking at it with ronaldo staying the squad would be unchanged really looking like this:
FOSTER OR EDWIN
BROWN/RAFAEL RIO VIDIC EVRA
CARRICK HARGREAVES NEW SIGNING
RONALDO BENZEMA ROONEY
May 29th, 2009 at 12:49
@edwin: Mate, I wouldn’t mind the articles, but some of the comments are hilarious at best. Like I said, we just had an off day. We started confidently and we were stunned with a killer goal. What I believe was our undoing on wednesday night was the lack of that strict, rigid shape we have employed all season. It’s like Fergie told them to go out and turn on the style, thinking our defence would keep out the strikers and our midfied trio would stifle theirs. Where was our usual shape?? Evra was caught in no man’s land for both of the goals, no one was tracking Messi for the second… it was truly amazing stuff. Fergie’s substitutions were not much better either. I mean, how did Giggs manage to last that long on the pitch? And why wasn’t a possesion player like Scholes or Berbatov introduced sooner seeing as we needed to keep the ball a little bit more?
We picked the wrong day to leave our footballing brain, courage and ethos back in Manchester. Why Fergie abandoned the style of footy that got us this far in the competition is beyond me!! (On a side note, I believe Carrick needs to be tested for drugs after every match. Yes, he doesn’t look the type, slow and unergetic, but that is because the lad must be on Valium!! Nobody is that lead-footed and languid, not even Berbatov)
May 29th, 2009 at 12:56
Scholes to Stoke??!
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5353740,00.html
I say celebrate his legacy and give him the coaching job .. Did he have his testimonial?
May 29th, 2009 at 13:04
@Matt: simpson might leave, gibson wont, im sure of that.
Another striker that popped up in my head is aguero, he would do the business, but might be more expensive the benzema. Also villa is an option, we could get him for £30mil, valencia need the money.
To be honest, i think saf will stick with nani and give him more of a role next season, the same way he did with park last season.
Neville needs to retire, end off. Scholes can become a player coach HERE instead off at sunderland. Thats a semi-retirement i guess.
Giggs, back up, only back up, should never be considered when the likes of anderson, fletcher , hargreavs and carrick are all fit.
I really think this could be a big summer for us!
May 29th, 2009 at 13:04
@NicoQB: That site isnt known as ABU365 for nothing mate. Scholesy would never do that.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:07
With Tevez on the leave and rumours about Park’s future, will that lead to Evra’s miscontent if it happens that his two buddies are off?
I would love it if we could get the Evra of 2007 back, but this season he’s not been exactly sound…
May 29th, 2009 at 13:09
@Dan: Do you really think that? I seriously believe it could be our quietest summer for a while, with very little commings and goings.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:11
@edwin: there is a lttle momentum to that storey, but find it hard to believe that it, you are right about ABU365.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:15
@edwin: Its not F365, they are just reporting the Daily Mail.
In any case I always felt that F365 is fair and balanced to all teams when it has to diss Epl teams. Their mailbox is infamous for its legions of paranoiac mersysiders…
May 29th, 2009 at 13:20
@NicoQB: It also states that Citeh and the Dippers have agreed the fee with Tevez’s advisers with regards to his transfer, so we will wait and see.
RIPOSA IN PACE 39 BIANCONERI.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:26
@Dan: I really dont rate gibson at all, fair play he has an excellent shot on him and hes not the worst player ive ever seen but in my mind there is absolutely no way he is united quality at all.
A player we have i do rate is young possebon, i know im only basing it on reserve football but i honeslty believe given a couple of games next year and a bit of time he could be a quality player for us.
Just the way he stands, the way he can find a pass so easily, this kid reminds me of scholes now, not a very attacking player but a guy who can spot a pass and deliver a precision pass to them, excellent stuff to watch, i prefer possebon over gibson any day.
As were on the topic of midfielder who do you all think we need more, a midfield general like a keane, or a more creative midfielder who can keep the ball and can score a few himself.
These midfield generals are pretty hard to come by, de rossi the stand out choice for me along with gattuso and senna but thats about it.
As for creative midfielders i guess you could throw arteta, hamsik, moutinho, fellaini (as someone mentioned) etc.
Im under the opinion a creative midfielder would be of more use, we have hargreaves and fletcher who can do the DM job, although hargo should be given a final season if his fitness was not to improve de rossi would be my choice for next season. I feel though we lack a genuine goal threat from our central midfield. Iniesta is an excellent passer and also gets a few goals a season too, if we had an iniesta, gerrard, lampard we would be unstoppable. Whilst i realise these players dont grow on trees there are players who have similar qualities.
Moutinho has been spoken about as being identical to scholes in his prime, but i dont think his goal record proves this and i havent seen much of him tbh. Arteta is a good player, good passing, excellent free kicks, and gets a few goals, would be a good choice, fellani the same but much more expensive.
Any others any1 can think of, i think this kind of player is needed badly. Try for benzema, forget valencia and go for someone like i mentioned or someone with similar qualitites. Gutted we didnt try for gourcoff cos he would have been quality here im sure of it.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:30
@Matt: im sorry, but the sooner we get rid of possebon the better, gibson is miles better then possebon, and the only thing that lad has going for him is the fact hes brazilian, playing for italy. Trust me mate, hes shite.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:36
@Matt: A lot does stem from if Hargo comes back to his best, if he does then the midfield enforcer is there, and if we play 4-4-2 then he and Carrick are fine I suppose. The issue is if we play 4-3-3 then we need a top class creative player who can chip in with goals and they are hard and expensive to come by.
I am worried about Hargo I really hope he comes back to full fitness but there is a lingering doubt in my mind that he won’t, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:39
@Dan: You really think so, well ok mate im appreciate your opinion but i wouldnt agree with that. Gibson does have a few good qualities, he not a bad tackler, and has a good shot, his passing isnt bad but for me i dont like his positioning.
Playing in the CM position your positioning has to be spot on and when ive seen him he always seems to be in the wrong place, when the opposition are pressing forward hes nowhere to be seen. I dont know maybe its just me that notices that but it was one of the things that i saw about him and i didnt like.
I admit though what ive seen of possebon he seems to have gone backwards a bit after that pogatetz foul on him but i dont think we should get rid. In my opinion he has everything gibson has plus more, better passing, great shots, not sure about his tackling but i wouldnt say possebon is worse than gibson. Maybe cos gibson has had more 1st team chances than possebon i dont know, but i hope to see possebon given the chance gibson was before we ever considered getting rid.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:42
@Stephen: What do you think of danielle de rossi, in my opinion he is the man i would break the bank for if hargo didnt recover from his injury. I will given hargo another season but you have to say anything less than 25/30 games next season from him and we should cut our losses and break the bank for de rossi, he is a bloody monster, reminds me of roy keane the more i watch him imo.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:45
@Matt: I would love him mate, he is hard and can use the bsll well, I was at the 7-1 game and he was there only ray of sunshine in the game and scored a great goal, but he is ROma through and through.
We need a nasty player and he would be ideal, I have already previous brough up Flamani as a cheaper option, simply because of the fact that he is very realistic and would not cost the earth.
May 29th, 2009 at 13:54
@Stephen: Flamini is or was being left out of the team for that jankulovski or who ever he is called, what the hell was ancelotti thinking there. Also i believe gattuso was out cos he had a bad injury, if gattuso was ever available i would snap him up in a minute.
As for de rossi, hes a very loyal player and his loyalty is admirable but roma have been struggling recently and maybe if they werent making enough progress he would consider joining us, maybe not.
Your right though hes a quality player and the goal in the 7-1 was pretty sensational. I wasnt there but i remember when that goal went in the united fans were applauding that cos it was so special. Good thing about him is he can also play as the CM, and ive seen him a few times even as the AM sort of role.
Maybe unrealistic but i would love him to join what a player.
May 29th, 2009 at 14:06
@Matt: Me too I think he is superb, Gattuso is good but he is 31 and Fergie doesn’t buy midfielders of that age another who falls in the 30’s catorgary and who I would love to see and would be a punt but is only 30 is Riquelme, but unrealistic I suppose.
Also I like Cambiasso, who is probably not gettable, if that is a word, but really I would like to see Hargo fully fit.
May 29th, 2009 at 14:18
@Matt: Agree with you there. I feel strange saying this but, aprt from scoring regularly, i don’t think Gibson does much.
Possebon, lest we forget, also has a good shot from distance and better technique on the ball.
May 29th, 2009 at 14:20
@Stephen: Just wondering from your point of view cos you seem like a guy with a lot of knowledge about the game, if you have the say £30 million budget what would you do?
Would you buy tevez, buy a replacement or give the kids a chance.
And if you were looking for a creative midfielder who exactly would you rate enough. The likes of artetas are good but i just look out there and dont see anyone, so im always interested to hear other peoples views.
May 29th, 2009 at 14:58
to be honest it upsets me when people say possbon is better then gibson, i honestly think its a latino Vs irish thing, people expect possebon to be better because of where the players are from. If gibsons name was gibinaldo and possebons nam was potters, then gibson would get the recognition he deserves.
Gibson is in a no win situation, i have no doubt in my mind hes better then potters.
May 29th, 2009 at 14:59
How can people say ‘get rid of Anderson’, but in the same breath ‘hold on to Gibson’. Even if Anderson never fulfill his potential, in this season (an off season for him), he is still miles better than Gibson (or even Possenbon). I’ve seen the 3 of them playing together and believe me, Anderson is way better than them (and younger too).
On another note, if Tevez cannot be kept happy with his role in the side, what would make us believe that Benzema will be?
I would like to propose a solution that is actually very inexpensive and easy to implement.
“Screw this Milanese football and play the Manchester United way”
We used to approach games (especially against Barca) of “we will score more goals than you”. We abandoned that approach. Barca didn’t. Guess what…Barca came up tops.
I think the lesson learnt from the final for Fergie should be “you don’t have to betray who you are to make your mark”.
Somehow I doubt he will learn that lesson because that would mean having to admit that you were wrong.
Sadly though, Think about it, we won the CS, CC, WCC, PL, ended up finalists in the CL and just about missed the FAcup final.
Added to this, we finally equalled Liverpool’s domestic record.
What exactly in this scenario will make Fergie or the Glazers believe that we need to change the team?
Realistically, I don’t foresee much changes really (neither signings, nor tactics).
May 29th, 2009 at 15:00
@Matt: i would buy ribery with that £30mil, and give welbeck and macheda extended runs in the team.
Id also sell the likes off park and evra, to raise funds and buy lahm.
May 29th, 2009 at 15:37
Jesus you really know when the summers coming cos these bloody ronaldo rumours go full swing. Just heard that muppet perez guy saying they have an agreement in place which will cost £80m. If im honest im sick of this crap and i really have grown tired of it. £80million would buy us 4/5 top quality players so if im honest and this comes true i aint over concerned. Ronaldos a great player but if he wants to go he should.
The team should be built around rooney anyway and if ronaldo was to leave we could start to do that.
Buy ribery, get a world class CM, benzema and were sorted.
Feel a little sorry for madrid though, they dont live in the real world. According to that idiot perez they want ronaldo and kaka, god hope they have £150m then, idiots.
May 29th, 2009 at 16:48
@Dan: Wow your tevez hate has completely consumed you. If you ignore the headline and actually read his quotes, it’s not bad at all. He just questioned the tactics just like ronaldo and most fans for that matter. You are way over reacting. I can’t help but wonder if tevez would have gotten to the ball when valdez spilled ronaldos freekick. Tevez is far from being a clinical finisher but he has a knack for scoring scrappy goals like that.
May 29th, 2009 at 16:53
@Dan: I disagree about the Gibson being hurt cause he is Irish, I think it’s the opposite. For the most part, players from the UK are usually over hyped and over inflated. Ask yourself this question. If Gibson was American would he be in the team?
May 29th, 2009 at 16:59
@Gabriel: Great teams are judged by what they do and how they perform on the big day, not the whole season. Two years ago in America an undefeated 16-0 New England Patriots team went into the Super Bowl against a rag tag bunch of overachieving misfits known as the New York Giants who barely got into the playoffs with a 10-6 record. They went on to win three playoff games against better clubs and then shocked the world by beating the seemingly invincible Patriots 17-14.
The Patriots weren’t just undefeated. They had broken NFL record for most points scored, most touchdowns and their star quarterback Tom Brady broke several major NFL passing records. So how could this happen? There is not reason that is logical other than the team took the other one lightly and was not mentally prepared for the game. What’s surprising about that is that New England wasn’t some newbie in the Super Bowl scene. They had won three previous games over the past seven seasons.
My point to all this is nothing is ever written in stone and there are no assurances when playing sports. The other thing learned from this is what you do the whole year means jack shit when you lose the big game. In twenty years from now nobody remembers who lost the Super Bowl or the CL final. They only remember the winner and so this old saying does come into effect when we speak of Manchester United. “What have you done for us lately?” To all those who say that we just had a bad day, I say blow out your ass. We choked on the big day and played like assholes. We were worthy losers and chumps. We couldn’t even win the Premier League title with any real class or style having to back end our way to celebrations with a 0-0 tie at home to a demoralized Arsenal.
To say I am down on this team is a major understatement. Part of me says get over it and stop panicking. The other part of me says that in order to beat Barcelona and recapture European glory, major changes and housecleaning have to be made. But what are Fergie and Gill going to provide us. Stubborn and stoic resolve with a don little attitude as they calmly go on their holidays and let the world collapse around them like they did last year.
Already the noise has become. To Hell with Tevez,let him go, but Ronaldo and Madrid have already started their campaign of rumors and disinformation. Already we have to read and listen to Florentino Perez claim that he is buying Kaka, Ribery and Ronaldo and that Ronaldo is furious with Fergie and wants out. Already we have to be subjected to this bull shit and garbage and rather than put an end to all of this crap, Fergie and Gill will do nothing for God knows how long while we poor bastards who pay their salaries stew in our own juices wondering not only if we will lose Ronaldo, but if there will be anyone left to buy after he is sold. United has a manner of dragging it’s ass in off season business that really irritates me to know end.
Yes it’s been a long tiring season but their is no Euros or World Cup this year and there is also plenty of time to take a long vacation. Get the business of buying and selling players out of the way now, before you go on holidays. For once make the off season anything but a bloody hell for your loyal supporters all over the world. I do not and will no tolerate a month of will Ronaldo go or will he not. I don’t care if he goes, just make it happen now rather than later. And make sure that if he goes, either Kaka or Ribery are coming to OT.
Now that Barca are kings, Real Madrid will be more bent out of shape than ever. They may break the bank and sell the King of Spain’s jewels to fund a new Galacticos revolution. And what are we going to do while this is happening? Sun ourselves in the South France like last year Fergie. If you are too damned old and you can’t put in the overtime to right the ship right frakken now. RETIRE and sun yourself until your last days. I want action and I want it right frakken now. I’m so tired of the procrastinating and stalling and all that bullshit. Either sell Ronaldo or issue a warning to him to put a fucking sock in it right now. I am not relishing another Summer of the Sun and Marca cavalcade of bull shit taking up all our time and patience.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:03
@NicoQB: I hope he goes because he clearly isn’t good enough anymore to play for us. Greatly respect him but was never a major convert of the Ginger Ninja. Still, I’d like to see him do well but I just don’t see him as a manager or coach. This guy is shy as Heck and is afraid of hi9s own shadow. Hardly the temperament or personality one can see becoming a successful manager. I bet you his wife wears the pants in the family too. Still, I could be wrong and I do wish him well. I have a feeling though that he may turn this offer down. He is after all, United through and through.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:05
@Stephen: Go read the online papers mate. The shit storm has already begun, especially for Ronaldo and those pricks over at Real Madrid.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:07
@Matt: I agree with you about Possebon but I wouldn’t cancel out Gibson quite yet. I think the lad has great tools and with experience he will get better. Remember he and Possebon are still very young and so too much should not be expected or projected of them quite yet.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:12
@Stephen: Even if Hargo comes back, we still need another game defining take charge midfielder. I mean forget Iniesta and Xavi for a second. Barcelona doesn’t have one, not two, but three quality DMF’s. Busquets, Keita and Yaya Toure are all great and only one of them can play per game. That’s depth in a pivotal role. If Hargo goes down next season, who takes over for him without giving United the same old look that got them thrashed in the CL final? Who? We need to buy another great midfielder who is box to box and who is also known for his pace. We are far too slow in the center of midfield and we need to get somebody who can cover distances and move quickly
May 29th, 2009 at 17:13
@Matt: I’d break the bank for him even if Hargo does recover. Problem is, I don’t see him leaving Roma.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:14
@Matt: The problem with Flamini is I find him slow and he is also ex Arse. I want nobody whi is ex Arse.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:14
@Grognard: It is going to be a long summer…………
May 29th, 2009 at 17:15
@Matt: Tevez I would never buy, because he is a full of himself GOBSHITE. His claim of today, is that the loss was down to Fergie and wrong tactics. He said United would of won if they had played him from the beginning
. Sure they would Tevez, and you proved that when you came on and did shite all didn’t you!
May 29th, 2009 at 17:18
@Dan: Possebon is better on the ball and has far more composure on the ball than Gibson. Gibson has the shot because everyone has seen it. Then you must admit that so does Possebon because you watch reserve games. They are both good and I wouldn’t slag one over the other. Lets promote both of them and be glad we have both of them. Hopefully they will both pan out for us in the end.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:19
@Matt: Mate I know very little about football but like everyone I have an opinion
I would not sign Tevez, I would try and buy Arteta, he has Premiership experience, a good passer and can chip in with goals also. Ribery has pretty much signed for Real so that is out of the question, personally I would love De Rossi but that could be just a dream.
I would love simply to Macheda, Welbeck, Anderson, Gibson, Possebon, The Twins ect a chance to prove themselves Barca had seven players start against us and with a level of loyality to the club players tend to perform.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:21
@Craig Mc: Exactly! the stupid prat talks to much and thinks hes the next maradona!
May 29th, 2009 at 17:22
@Karl: How can one say it? Easily mate, read carefully. GET RID OF ANDERSON, HE IS A USELESS AND TALENTLESS GIT.
Hows that? And further more Possebon and Gibson have more raw talent than Anderson who other than his ability to dribble at pace and protect the ball with his fat ass, is incapable of doing anything else constructive on the pitch. Especially against big clubs where he is exposed for the overrated fraud that he is. Fuck Anderson. I’m sick at the site of him and would love him well away from United and England for that matter so I never have to see him and his ugly hairdo again.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:22
@Grognard: How long do we have to keep shouting this before somebody at OT GETS IT Grog
. Fergie has to forget Nev, Giggsy and Scholesy NOW. No more sentimentalism, just ruthless cutting of a squad. Thise 3 players have served United so well, and we will always love them for it, but they have had their time and day. Giggsy is already talking about playing and winning everything next season again, doesn’t he realise that he played total shite, and gives the ball away far too much. Times up Giggsy. But probably lots of Giggsy fans will not appreciate these comments 
May 29th, 2009 at 17:30
@Grognard: Hes better then marin
May 29th, 2009 at 17:31
@Karl: It doesn’t matter what style of football we played on Wednesday night mate, we would have lost. Unlike many who think it was our tactics that made us lose, I counter and disagree 100%. It was not a tactical loss, it was a loss caused my a players malaise and loss of confidence and courage. As soon as we gave up the first goal, the team went into a panic and immediately hung their heads collectively. Up to that moment Barca were scared at the sight of us and for ten minutes never even crossed midfield. Once they broke us down for the first goal, their fear went away, their confidence and swagger came back and being up one goal, they were able to now play their typical ball control keep away game. We on the other hand had nobody to combat their center midfielders in both class and pace and that is where we were exposed and where we lost.
Not having an answer for Xavi and Iniesta and not having the skill and the smarts to exploit Sylvinho was a telling problem. God knows Park wasn’t going to embarrass Sylvinho. Instead we concentrated on Puyols who to his credit played the game of his life. Sure there were errors in our tactics, but only because we never had the players to change the tactics to serve our way of playing. And all because our depth in center midfield was awful and because the players as a team, just didn’t show up for the biggest game of their lives. In theory, the very same tactics we used against Arsenal should have worked against Barcelona. The reason they didn’t is quite obvious. Barcelona are a cut above Arsenal in class and Man United is also a cut below Barcelona in class. The truth hurts.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:33
@Craig Mc: He wasn’t the only one on Wednesdat mate.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:40
@Matt: Ribery is a great player mate but he isnot the answer believe me. Look at the Bayern Munich roster. They have great player in the their back four, quality wide players and were three deep in world class striker but were humiliated by Barcelona. Why? Because like us, Bayern are only average in the center of midfield. The European game is not won with wingers and won wide. It’s a continental game of slow short passing buildup up the middle. Teams with strong central midfielders will usually dominate. Look at only one team that was able to handle and tame Barcelona and you will see a team that has no wide players of any quality but who are stacked with world class central midfielders. I am talking about Chelsea. They have Essien, Ballack and Lampard and even Mikel. And we know how thoroughly they handled Iniesta and Xavi for two full games while getting royally screwed by a referee who was out of his depths.
Chelsea is the blueprint on how to become Europe’s best. Strengthen the center of the park. Not with just Hargo and Fletcher but buy buying a world class DMF or talisman who can orchestrate and run the club from that position. We need a Roy Keane or Bryan Robson badly. Otherwise we are going to continually meet up with this problem unless somebody does us a favor and eliminates Barca.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:44
@Craig Mc: How is Giggs supposed to realize the game is up when the clowns vote him PFA player of the year? Giggs can still offer up a lot as a sub but as for Scholes and Neville, retire already. And what really pisses me off about Neville is his lack of class and true leadership. He should have given up the captain’s armband last season and placed it on a worthy successor rather than hang onto something he doesn’t deserve or warrant anymore. Selfish and greedy is what I say about your beloved Red Nev.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:44
@Gabriel: If you think Evra is PERFECT, specsavers is down the road Bro
.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:45
@Dan: In your dreams mate. Marin is the star of his club and is already a fixture with the German National team. Quite the accomplishment for somebody so young.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:48
@Mr.Muhozi: I know Muhozi Bro, and I can assure you, that we will not see Giggs retire UNTIL riga-mortis sets in and he is ashamed into leaving
.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:49
@Grognard: I have sort of met him mate and he isn’t a nice bloke I can tell you.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:53
@Craig Mc: It amazes me how some people cannot see Evra for the useless, brainless little French crumpet that he is. Why don’t they get it Bro? How many times must the Skinned Sausage be skinned? How many times must he be caught way out of position? How many times must his last pass in the attacking zone end up in the opponents possession and how many times must we endure his blind and stupid clearances that go straight to the opponent and help them score goals like the second goal on Wednesday.
Some might say he sucks but that there are no other LB’s out there that are good enough that we can afford. Perhaps that is right. God know with all our other problems, breaking the bank for Philip Lahm is not an option. But here the thing, Fergie, play young Fabio and show him the confidence you showed Rafael. He is every bit as good as his brother and many feel he is better. And if you want to break him in slowly, then do so. O’Shea is more than a capable starter for now as long as you are smart enough to place Wes Brown back at RB where he belongs. W e don’t need to shop to find Evra’s replacement. We already have him. How about selling Evra for 15 million and taking that money and buy a midfielder or a world class goalkeeper for the future? Now there’s an idea.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:53
@Craig Mc: You mean Giggamortis.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:55
@Stephen: Tell us more. I’m intrigued. I assume you are talking about Neville and not Giggs, correct?
May 29th, 2009 at 17:58
@Grognard: Giggsy I hear is a lovely fella, Craig will know about Neville, he has a bad rep in Manchester.
I was in Starbucks and he was in front of me in the cue (hence the sort of met) and the girl who in fairness was obviously quite new and not great but Red Nev was just bloody rude to her and arrogant with it, bacically not called for.
May 29th, 2009 at 17:58
@Darth Red Diablo: Well I told her I am saving for a TOP, TOP, engagement ring, and she smiled which I think means agreement
.
May 29th, 2009 at 18:00
@Dan: A Wengerphile – Dan I’m pmsl Bro.
.
May 29th, 2009 at 18:00
Everybody talks about us buying the unaffordable Ribery or getting Valencia but I for months have touted one name and nobody even bothers to comment on him when I do. Yuri Zhirkov. Well today I read at the BBC that Chelsea just bought him for 30 million. Now they have not only the best central midfield players anywhere outside of Barcelona. Now they have a world class winger who can also play LB better than Evra on his best days. NUTS!
“0950 BST: Chelsea have signed Russian international midfielder Yuri Zhirkov for $30m from CSKA Moscow according to Russian newspaper Tvoi Den. The tabloid claims Zhirkov will join on a four-year contract. (Russian tabloid Tvoi Den)”
May 29th, 2009 at 18:03
@Stephen: Errr wtf Stephen??? I said that I didn’t agree with Fergie playing people out of position, and I NEVER mentioned Phelan – what are you on Bro? Just stop drinking that Red wine will you mate
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May 29th, 2009 at 18:07
How’s about Jeremy Toulalan from Lyon?
Haven’t watch much of the French League to have an assessment on him.
My mate’s been raving about him to me all the time!
May 29th, 2009 at 18:09
@Grognard: Grog your Quote “How many times must the skinned sausage be skinned?” What before he is CANNED you mean
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May 29th, 2009 at 18:11
@Grognard: GIGGAMORTIS –
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May 29th, 2009 at 18:31
Why park is a terrible player.
http://www.4shared.com/file/78173996/346940a3/What_a_miss_by_Park.html
Enjoy.
May 29th, 2009 at 18:40
@Craig Mc: I was just that the players played shite mate that all plus I am drinking white!
Also are you an engaged man???! If so congrats matey will have a drink to celebrate your news!!
May 29th, 2009 at 18:45
@Stephen: No I’m not engaged yet, but I am SAVING for this bloody costly ring she wants
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May 29th, 2009 at 18:48
@Craig Mc: I feel your pain mate,will have a drink anyway!
May 29th, 2009 at 18:53
Sorry boys my spelling today has been awful, my father would delighted with the money he spent on my education
May 29th, 2009 at 19:15
@Craig Mc: Become a male “escort” for a week or two, the money will be coming in(and out
) like children to the ice-cream man. Trust me, its good fun, and you get paid for it.
May 29th, 2009 at 19:26
@Dan: You know what annoys me about that miss is 2 things.
1 is parks reaction to the miss. A sort of oh well i tried look, he didnt look too disappointed, i bet if rooney had missed that he would have been punching the air and swearing all that, maybe im looking into that too much.
The other is fergies reaction and it kinda annoys me. Fergie had the look of a father who sees his son miss a sitter. Hes disappointed about the miss but ah its ok cos its park. I guarantee you if that was nani he would have been out of his seat waving his arms around looking furious. And people say fergie doesnt have his favourites indeed.
May 29th, 2009 at 19:36
@Matt: i totally agree mate, totally agree. Fergie has his favourites, CQ had his, CQ is gone, so fergies favs IE park now get “special” treatment. Unfair, and poor, poor man-management.
May 29th, 2009 at 20:01
new post up btw.
May 29th, 2009 at 20:22
@Dan: That has got to be the miss of the century. I still don’t know how it was possible to miss that? I often use the saying “can’t hit the side of the barn from two feet”. If ever there was a video description of what I mean, that would be it. I’m like the bloke in the stands. You can’t even get mad about it. You just have to laugh because it’s so comical.
May 29th, 2009 at 20:24
@Dan: And of course Dan, you speak from experience right?
May 29th, 2009 at 20:27
@Matt: I can’t help but agree with you there. Certain people get the hairdryer or stare from God and others just get the Aw shucks, maybe next time treatment from the Boss. I for one can say right now that although I admire and respect the man a great deal, I could not play for a man who shows favoritism and preference to some while alienating others. Especially gits like Park who are undeserving. It’s infuriating.
May 29th, 2009 at 20:42
@Dan: Dan
, if I did that mate, I would get my arse kicked out the door PRONTO. Besides I could never cheat, I’m one of those annoying loyal to the core gits. When I care for somebody, I never look at anybody else, and before Grog gives me some stick, I mean anybody else but Lush Puppy Kimba 
. The GF knows about that one though 
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May 29th, 2009 at 20:51
@Craig Mc:
May 30th, 2009 at 0:07
@Craig Mc: OK so we know you are loyal to the GF but supposing you had difficult decision like picking between one managing Man Utd or two, the GF, what would you do then?