Aug 10
United snooze as Chelsea claw back to win Shield
The curtain raiser for the Premier League 09/10 is now behind us, and we can finally look forward to actual competitive football. Of course, the international friendly is almost surreal in its scheduling but we can break our head over it another day.
Here are a few thoughts on yesterday…
United started brightly and dominated Chelsea in the first half. They were quick off the blocks; Rooney and Berbatov linked up well, and Fletcher did a good job of snuffing out Chelsea’s formidable midfield. We attacked with purpose and should have been ahead by more than the solitary goal.
Nani had a bright game. I’ve had high hopes for him — I always felt he had the skills but his brain needed some sorting out. His brain seemed just fine, as there was marked improvement in his decision-making. The goal was beautiful, bisecting John Terry and Petr Cech into the right corner.
This has become a recurring theme in most of the United-Chelsea fixtures I’ve seen lately. Actually scratch that. This has been a recurring theme in most of the big games I’ve seen United involved in the last season (barring the Arsenal Champions’ League away leg, and the 3-0 defeat of Chelsea). We seem to fly off the blocks, get an early goal perhaps, and revert into a shell or inexplicably contrive to concede advantage to the other side. The second half was emblematic of the schizophrenia we’ve seen United display and I never saw us really deserve taking the lead in the second half. Carvalho’s goal almost seemed just to me, which brings us to my next gripe.
I’ve been supportive of giving Ben Foster the chance to prove himself. But yesterday he seemed very nervous and shaky. He hardly filled me with any confidence — and I suppose for the defence either — and if he keeps that form in the proper games, it will only be his Englishness that will keep him number one over Kuszczak. Sort it out, Ben. Foster fans can make all excuses they want about him, but he hardly inspired confidence in some of his decision-making yesterday — defence or no defence; not to mention, some dreadful kicking (which was supposed to be his strength).
And finally, onto the most contentious part of the match. Ballack elbowing Evra was a disgrace, but I won’t spend more inches debating on the German captain’s character. I was disappointed with referee, Chris Foy’s inconsistency. Whereas he didn’t play advantage when a Chelsea player went down he had no issues when Evra went down and played advantage leading to a Chelsea goal. Now I don’t have an issue if he’d played advantage for us in the first place. He has to give us an indication on how he interprets the rules. That’s all I ask. And I didn’t see that in the lead up to Chelsea’s second. That is all I will say on the incident.
In some bonus asides: I thought Berbatov sucked himself into a wormhole, during the second half. Some people claim to have seen him though. Nani’s injury was worrying, and I was really disappointed to hear reports that he’ll be out for a while. He will have a scan today, when the extent of the injury would definitively be known. Ben Hibbs, the Manutd.com resident journalist, however, provided an update on twitter that United’s doctors believe he may not have dislocated his shoulder after all. But nonetheless, a scan would only really tell.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Chelsea: Community Shield Preview
- United* 1-1 Chelsea: First Blood to the Reds
- United Let Everton off the Hook
- Anderson talks – puts speculation to bed
- Community Shield Preview
Tags: Match Reports
August 10th, 2009 at 7:56
what a complete screw up by chris foy and his bunch of helpers i wont call him a referee,to good for him,no advantage was played when ballack should have been sent off,for the fore-arm smash on evera,but only 2 min before,foy stops the game when ballack feigns injury,you only get 1 chance to referee,a game like this he should be taken of the list permanently.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:02
Ballack blocked off Evra,but after watching it ten times it was nowhere near his face,it was in fact his chest,so why was he holding his face.
Rooney passed the ball to Berbatov who played it into the Chelsea area.If
United had scored what would have been said.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:13
Phew! I posted 2 comments but an incorrectly typed email address sent my comments for moderation. RR, pls ignore them.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:34
So we lose on Penalties again. Isn’t this the second consecutive game where Evra has cocked up on Penalties? I certainly see a consistent performance from the boys.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:59
In the end Evra got punished for play acting. If he’d taken the shoulder, yelled at the ref then gotten up while Foy played the advantage, then he would have been in position to at least mark Lampard – who lordy knows he can outrun. But that’s the modern game for you. And yes, Foy was inconsistent so deserves criticism, but Evra is really the one at fault.
Does anyone else find it funny that Hargreaves isn’t even listed on the Manutd news pages anymore in their injury lists?
August 10th, 2009 at 9:18
I totally agree with the article. We had a good 1st half but we have a tendancy to dip in performance in the 2nd half, and we all knw this is wen Chelsea really starts to play their game. In the end we got wat was comin to us. Its unfortunate that we had such a bad round of penalties (wat was Evra thinkin? there was NO power behind that shot!!! and Giggs? wat are the odds?!?)
I can imagine things will be abit tricky to say the least not having Van Der Sar in goals for a while, not that Ben Foster is a bad goalkeeper, but i just feel he has alot of room for improvement.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:35
Ballack IS admitting that the referee GOT IT WRONG! He apologised to Evra at the end of the game, so he obviously did something. Ballack said the referee should have stopped the game, but as he didn’t Chelsea players seized their opportunity. I felt sorry for Rooney, having got such a cracking equaliser, United penalty takers let him down. However, it seems that our strikers and MF’s haven’t got the balls to take a penalty. As Frank Stapleton said on MUTV, they probably dodged putting themselves up to take a penalty, because they are liable to such ridicule and tormenting IF they miss! Berbatov anyone?
August 10th, 2009 at 9:39
@Craig Mc: Besides Evra, who else missed their pens??
August 10th, 2009 at 9:45
I do hope that Man.Utd.com are right, that Nani doesn’t have a dislocated shoulder after all. Considering he is right footed, and they stuck him on the left again, he didn’t do badly really. Needs to learn HOW to defend without fucking up when tracking back though
.
Fabio – He was FAST up and down that wing when he came on as full back for Sheasy. Ashley Cole was shitting himself, not to mention that Fabio is a nifty little GIT at harrasing and speedy coming away with the ball from the tackle. I enjoyed watching him
.
I still don’t think we have found a striker twosome combination that really works for us yet, but we live in hope. The real business starts this weekend, so we aint got any more time left for try outs
.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:47
@Rahul: Giggsy missed his penalty mate!
August 10th, 2009 at 9:49
I would like to see Michael Ballack vs Stevie Moi in a nightclub at 2 AM arguing over music.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:51
@Craig Mc: Ouch!!
August 10th, 2009 at 9:52
Just like against Bayern we don’t seem to take these penalty shoot outs very seriously. I mean Ryan didn’t look interested and Evra should never have been taking one after the Bayern miss. Where were Rooney, Owen and even Berbatov ? Completely daft.
What do we learn from the game ? Certainly, even without Ronaldo and Tevez we are still a very good side but what worries me is that this performance and the result – even though it is unimportant in itself – is probably going to be indicative of the season to come. We’ll play well in patches and we’ll have enough to get past the weaker teams but against the better ones we’ll lack inspiration. The inability to replace Ronaldo with someone approaching his stature may, apart from anything else, have sent the wrong message.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:55
@Beachryan: Beachy I don’t think Evra was playacting mate to be honest with you. Whatever Ballack did, and who knows if it was picked up on TV, so much was going on between Ballack and his dishing out treatment to Evra off the ball. Something went down, (besides Evra
), because Rio and other United players were having to hold Evra back from fighting Ballack – he was so enraged by whatever Ballack was doing. I saw that Even DOGba was putting a consoling arm around Evra at one point, towards the end of the game, and talking to him!
August 10th, 2009 at 10:03
I dont care what everyone thinks but fergie is begining to worry me.Not just this season,but even last on the issue of team selection.I know it wasnt a competitive game but our defensive tactics are really going to make us a laughing stock in football that is incresingly attack minded.Park is a good player but am sorry he should be a sub and nothing more.He has very limited ability and his stature doesnt help him either.
And how we manage to make some teams look like Barcelona and making poor penalty keepers look like buffon is beyond me and to be honest nowadays when am watching United games iam praying we win because they are nolonger entertaining unless you are a fan of slow play and parking the bus.
Lastly,the goal keeping issue should be sorted and even though i feel Kuszac is miles ahead of Foster,Fergie should pick one of them and stick with him.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:04
@Julian: Mate just think about it eh? If this game had been a PL game proper, and away in London, on Chelsea turf so to speak, and finished 2-2, with us getting the goal in the dying seconds, and the opposition getting their goal by poor refereeing GIFTING, then we would have taken points off a top 4 team, and but for the ref, may have won it. I take a lot of courage from that. A bit more luck, and we would have been 3-0 up at half time. So we will know better after our 1st few league games, we wait until then!
August 10th, 2009 at 10:11
@ Craig – I think you misunderstood, Evra definitely got shoulder barged over. But he laid on the ground for about 5 minutes, instead of getting on with it. It wasn’t his face, it was clear he got hit in the chest. Still a foul, still a f*ck up by the ref but still Evra ultimately at fault.
Agree with our attitude towards the pens. Giggsy didn’t even looked bothered that he missed. And it’s a bit harsh blaming Berba for not taking one, given he’d been subsituted :p
August 10th, 2009 at 10:11
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5482916,00.html
Guess a few us are not the only ones who thought Foster should have done better. I never have been a fan of Ballack and never will be the way he conducts himself.
We badly require David Silva in the MF for us. Carrick should play against weaker teams and Valencia-Fletcher-Silva-Nani should be the combination for stronger teams. And screw Park and all the money he generates from Asia.
fabio was a joy for the limited time he was in the field. I have always been a big fan of Evra but since January of this year he has been found wanting. He had a good game yesterday till he let Ballacks antics go to his head. I mean seriously, my grandmom wouldve hit a better pk than Evra! We are getting too tame this season and am worried Torres-Gerrard will run circles round us again like last year!
August 10th, 2009 at 10:18
@Beachryan: I wasn’t saying Berba should have taken a pen mate, because he wasn’t eligible like you say. What I meant about Berba, was in reference to Frank Stapleton comments on MUTV, when he said players may not be up for penalties, because they endure such ridicule if the miss. So I said Berba anyone? Meaning the stick Berba endured from fans for his poor penalty kick. Not that he missed it, but the shit he had to put up with afterwards. I do think that SAF has to sort players heads out about PK’s, because a lot of the BIG trophy games are more and more closely fought, and liable to go to pens
.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:19
@donibrasco: Foster is twice the keeper Kuszack is, saying any different is laughable.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:55
@ Craig Mc. Point well made. It is far too early to cast judgement. I am probably depressed by the result more than anything else – particularly our indifference regarding the pens. I am also highly sceptical on the Owen issue and I worry that Berba won’t be much more than an on/off sort of player for us. No matter, as you say we’ll see where we are after the first few PL games certainly by the end of Sept when we will have played Arsenal at home, Spurs away and City at OT.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:01
@Stephen: Mate, dont bother. Foster will never be good enough for us in some fans eyes.
Lets just leave it for foster to make them look stupid.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:05
With Vidic and Wes Brown at the back that match ends Chelsea nil. I’m ont worried abotu hte new season at all. I saw nothing from that Chelsea team that made me fear for our title challenge. They had quite a bit of possession, but look at their midfield,they should do! They did nothing with all this possession. No penetration at all. We kept getting in behind them and breaking through even the middle of their defence, and this was with park wasting one of our key attacking positions.
Rarely did we get an attack that wasn’t ruined be Park’s falling over or passing it straight to a Chelsea player. This lead to us only attacking down the left with Nani, or through the middle where Chlesea’s strong midfield can get into the game more.
The story of this match should have been the Rooney Berbatov axis. I thought Berbatov was fantastic today. Held the ball up well and ended on the right to cover for Park and was flicks and trickcs all day. When he pulled it out of the air around ‘England’s Brave John Terry’ and left him inside out it was exquisite.
Rooney’s goal was well taken, and the exact sort of chance he’d have hit the keeper with last season. The pressure was on and he finished brilliantly. Chelsea, for all their dominance in the second half couldn’t hold on to their lead either, and there we’re 11 men playing when we scored.
Seeing Anderson in the club tie on the bench, and Scholes in kit ready be subbed on was grating. I think we can all agree that Giggs is still here on merit, and he continues to prove it. Scholes should not be on the bench over Anderson. No matter what you think of Anderson, Scholes hasn’t been any better… one just turned 21 and the other is 35 this year. Stop reducing his opportunity already.
I hope Nani is ok and we can start the season with Valencia / Nani against Birmingham and set the markers for the new season. Every 20 games or so Park plays really well and we forget what he is usually like. Yesterday is what he is usually like. Over a season, Park, Neville, O’Shea and Scholes getting alot of game time is what I worry about.
August 10th, 2009 at 11:59
Traverse, story of the match should have been the Rooney-Berbatov axis, but it wasn’t because for large portions of the match we lost the midfield battle so that neither Berbatov or Rooney got much possession. What is the use of having two good strikers if your midfield is too weak to get them the ball? I think Rooney got one shot on goal the entire match and Berbatov maybe one or two. If you do not create chances for strikers they do not really have much chance to be fantastic.
Most of our play was down the wings where Nani and Evra and Fabio should be commended for their efforts.
The equalising goal was down to Giggs who played the sort of defence splitting pass that Carrick failed to produce all match long.
I don’t like all this talk about how we were robbed. In this game decisions sometimes go against you. But it doesn’t change the final result. If you want to be champions you have to win games even when the referee is on the other side. Fact is we should have wrapped up the game first half.
Like RR said we are schitzophrenic. We start strong, fail to convert out chances, fade away, let the opposition back into the game and end up losing.
I feel sorry for Foster. The truth is he just hasn’t had enough games and let the pressure get to him. While he was not totally responsible for the goals he looked shaky and a keeper needs to inspire his defence with confidence. I’m less concerned about the goals although I think perhaps he should have done better on the Lampard shot which was quite close to his body. It is the overall performance.
Experience is everything for a keeper which is why the best keepers are often in their 30s. Foster has spent large portions of his career injured or benched. We cannot afford to give him the couple hundred or so games he needs to develop into a great keeper. So for that reason I want us to buy an experienced keeper to replace EVDS next summer.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:53
@Traverse: good report, I was watching all the goals, and both of chelsea’s goals were mainly from mistakes from our defence/foster, whereas our goals looked more accomplished in the fact that we actually broke down their defense from good offensive skill.
Nani’s looking great so far this season, i hope he doesn’t pull off his flips everytime he scores though! one miss jump, and he’ll be out for weeks~
personally got a bit worked up about the game, and unjustice, whatever…
i’ll wait till the season starts before having a go at all that is against united.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:54
At the end of the day it was only the charity shield, and the players are far from match fit as yet. In a couple of months time we can judge fairly whether the team is able to sustain a good start throughout the match. Now is way too soon to make that judgement. I would say the opposite right now and suggest that it is encouraging that we were able to make such a good start so early in the season.
For all the talk about how bad we are at penalties, don’t forget that we won the European Cup on penalties along with last years Charity Shield. We aren’t that bad at them, and I doubt that Evra would have been in the 5 if the game mattered.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:56
Also I think that the fact that Anderson didn’t play yesterday is probably an indication that he will play next weekend. I suspect the same is true of Owen and Valencia.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:58
Ben Foster should be put in a box and shipped back to whatever club he came from, i blame the first goal on him, it was totally on him and no one else and the second goal? any decent keeper would have done better and punched the ball away like cech did against berba. And those people saying PIG is worse, you need to open your eyes and stop loving players just coz they are from england, if a player is shite, he’s shite. If according to a few bloggers ,Fosters kicking is what places him above Pig then people really need to visit the eye clinic, his kicking yesterday was worse than a crippled donkey’s. And he doesn’t save anything, I would rather have PIG in goal 1000 times more than over hyped ben hoaxster.PIG would have saved both of yesterdays goals easy.
I liked nani performance yesterday, he was tracking back and really helping out on defense unlike on previous occasions, he looks really ready to take over from CR7 and defend too. Rooney and berba looked good as did the midfield,who played a chelsea midfield that has been playing together for over three years, I think generally the team was ok and was pretty good, but its carrying an air of bad luck and if this bad luck continues we may not win any major cups this year but i’m sure it wont be coz of poor performance, it will come down to bad luck an ben hoaxster mucking up in defense.
August 10th, 2009 at 13:00
Excellent match from a United perspective . The right way to start showing that our attack exists without Ronaldo !
I thought the only reason the match wasn’t over by 30 mins was becos of Cech. Wow , seriously the saves he produced was amazing. People fail to realize that
The RB position was exposed big time yesterday . Look Oshea is a solid defender but he never crossed once in the entire match , the importance of crosses cannot be stressed more. The first cross from Rb came when Fabio took on Ashley Cole and produced 2 good crosses. Fabio & Rafael will have a major say for the LB/RB positions .
Good to know that the only shots which Rooney/Berba produced were on target.
Foster had a horrendous match. No 2 ways abt it. Will be interesting to see how he recovers from this. A lot of good GK have faded away becos of fear of big matches. Wont be surprised if Fergie takes a call of giving him a run of 2 or 3 matches and taking a final decision on him.
Nani/Evra combo was very good. Carrick was over run by Chelsea bull dogs.
Ballack`s foul on Evra was pathetic !
However think abt it, the only gentleman left in Chelsea is Essien. Do u really think the likes of Terry, Ricardo, Drogba, Cole know anything abt Professionalism.
The good thing is this incident happened in Community Shield which i am dead sure was watched the entire EPL Referees board. Will be interesting to see how the season pans out in terms of decisions.
With Nani injured we will surely see Anderson/Fabio being given more match time. Who knows, Andeson will step it up big time
August 10th, 2009 at 13:14
The only thing the referee done wrong at the chelsea goal was not go back and book ballack after they scored. When he went down a couple of minutes before it the ref stopped the game when he shouldn’t have and our players had a good moan at him about it. When evra went down we had the ball going into their third of the pitch so we played on and the ref let us. He took the incident prior to it on board and played a good advantage. Now, had it been chelsea who were attacking i would argue that he should stop play for the sake of balance and fairness, but it wasn’t. We had the ball in a decent area just like the one before that and we moaned about not getting to play on then. Chris foy played a good advantage and united were happy to play on, with not one player bothered about ballack blocking evra off while we still had the ball. It’s not his fault we lost the ball or that we got caught out on the break, failing to get back behind the ball, track runners and cover for teammates.
Ballack’s offense also wasn’t all that bad. He blocked off evra’s run, but he certainly didn’t elbow him in the face. There was no malice in it whatsoever. That being said, i also don’t think evra was play-acting. When he went for the one-two his eyes were firmly on the ball and i think the collision caught him by surprise, and his face may have crashed into ballack’s shoulder. It is still cynical and merit’s a yellow card, which i’m sure ballack would have happily accepted for it. He had a full back behind him, so really the block was unnecessary. At one point, carvalho took owen down when we had a break on with rooney in the middle by himself – a brilliant decision by the centre half. These things are part of the game and sometimes they are necessary. When it’s a player for your own team you shower him with praise and when it’s an opponent you are incensed. Part and parcel of the game.
Although i hate ballack i must also pat him on the back for being able to take evra’s crunching retributive tackle like a man. There is nothing worse than someone who can dish it out and not take it.
I thought nani’s decision-making was still pretty shit but he still had a good game, and i thought some of berbatov’s hold-up play was sublime.
August 10th, 2009 at 13:27
I wouldn’t read too much into this game, it was just a warmup game for the new season with both teams not quite at 100% (around the 90-95% fitness mark) and don’t forget the “Curse of the Community Shield” – usually the team who wins it does not go on to win the title the following May
Just as side thought – much as I love the guy, I don’t want to see Paddy Evra taking another spot kick in a shootout for us. I think our best penalty takers are – in no particular order – Rooney, Hargo, Carrick, M.Owen, Nani and Anderson (Hint to Fabio Capello: note that four of them are English!). Speaking of which, I do not think Carrick, Nani and Ando have missed a penalty for us at all in their careers with us so far!
Anyhoooo, I’d rather lose a shootout in a meaningless friendly than when it counts, like in a European Cup match – although it is a slight cause for concern that we have lost the last three shootouts we have been involved in.
August 10th, 2009 at 13:33
@Rick: I hope Ando steps it up big time mate! I’m expecting big things from him this year. Here’s to a return to the kind of form that saw him absolutely SHIT ALL OVER FABREGAS!! And Stevie Me for that matter!
August 10th, 2009 at 13:35
@tevez: Shouldn’t you be on a Man City blog you lying Argie ****? Just joking!!
August 10th, 2009 at 13:46
@colver: I totally agree with you there mate. Goalies don’t peak until they’re in their 30’s – thats why you see all these guys like EVDS, Buffon, Given, Friedel, James et al having blinders week in week out. Of course you get superb goalies on the younger side of 30 like Casillas, Boruc, Adler, Neuer etc. so you can only imagine how good these guys will get when they mature.
I am very worried about the goalie situation at present with EVDS out for 10 weeks. Foster does not convince me at all whenever I have seen him play, as I have noticed that he is usually guaranteed to concede at least one goal, and the less said about PIG the better! I am sure if we had EVDS in goal yesterday we would have won the game, as Foster was at fault for the first goal (Carvalho). I don’t know any good goalies out there who are available, perhaps even on loan, but it is a serious issue to be addressed with the great Dutch maestro hanging up his gloves at the end of this season. I have heard about this young Spanish bloke called Asenjo (the U21 keeper I believe) being linked with us, as well as the Villareal goalkeeper (I forgot his name lol).
August 10th, 2009 at 13:59
Luckily important trophies are not decided in one off’s, or Chelsea’s aging lineup could stay fit for 90 minutes!
I agree that Fletcher impressed me the most – very aggressive in the tackle, although his passing not so crisp. And Carrick blahhhhhhh blaaaaaah blaaaaaaaaahhh
August 10th, 2009 at 14:01
@Stephen: ‘Foster is twice the keeper Kuszack is’ Based on what? What makes people think Ben Foster is a good keeper. He cant control the ball…he messed up about 3 times yesterday his footwork is horrible. He doesnt command his area. Chelseas first goal should have never happened. Even when he saves the ball its not clean the ball bounces a metre away from him. You could by his actions(rolling on the floor that he knew he was to blame. Lampard hit the ball straight. That was a basic save. He messed up again. In preseason he was conceding goals left right center with an absolute howler… What has Foster done to show he his better than Tomas…His kicking is worse and thats what everyone gets at tomas for. That crap nabout giving him a run is nonsense…he should be ready anytime,he should have enough confidence to save a straight shot. Some were saying he should play ahead of Van de sar even. Thats hard to believe.; If Tomas played yesterday like that he would be sent straight back to Poland but with Foster its,give him time,give him a run of games,maybe somehow hel turn into a good keeper. I really want to know why Foster is good..?
August 10th, 2009 at 14:04
@spizzy: Perfectly said mate. Foster should be happy as our 4th choice after Heaton he is a nightmare. What has he ever done?keep for Watford? and Get injured….
August 10th, 2009 at 14:10
@Nino: I dont care who we buy but we need a keeper. We will seriously get Fucked with Foster. I am praying Tomas starts on Sunday
August 10th, 2009 at 14:40
@Nino : Yeah mate , Anderson son son will step up !!!
@Taehr : Yeah i agree with the point u make abt PIG . If PIG would have made the same mistakes like Foster did we would have condemned him to limits unimaginable.
Guys Foster can turn out good make no mistake abt it. However he is not even 20% of what he was at Watford. The injuries he is having is not helping his cause either.
We can always make the argument of the age, match time, being british etc. however at the end of the day is he good enough to replace VDS , not in the long term however currently short term and by the looks of it VDS Manutd career is very close to retirement.
Lets hope he can turn out well or at least if PIG starts over Foster lets give him the same support we give to any Utd player.
August 10th, 2009 at 14:45
Wow, Taehr I don’t know what Ben Foster did to you in a previous life, but chill out! Ferguson and the goal keeping coaches rate him quite highly, as does a certain Mr. Capello. I’m going to go ahead and give them some credit for knowing what they’re talking about. It’s ‘fans’ like you that are going to prevent him or any other new keeper from actually becoming good enough for us. Get behind him, it was one match and he was hardly the sole culprit on either of the goals. And if defenders would play it along the ground to his strong foot, he’d be better at kicking! Jesus, Petr Cech had a worse game, but I bet you’d love to sign him tomorrow!
Rumour has it that Nani spoke to the Portuguese press nad said he’s fine, and might be available for Wendesday’s international. Bizarre if true.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:00
Rick, Nino you are right. Foster may well be EVDSs LONG TERM REPLACEMENT. But we do not have the luxury of time. When Edwin retires Foster will be playing 40 games a season for us (assuming his injury problems are behind him). That means he has to be ready a year from now to take over the mantle as the goalkeeper for a club that aims to be the best in the world.
Im not going to endure a couple of years where we leak goals until Ben gets the experience he needs to reach the required level. We already screwed up when Schmeichel left the club. If we had properly replaced Schmeichel we would have done a lot better in the first half of this decade.
As for saying Capello rates him….it is not as though Capello has many alternatives. English keepers since Shilton have been terrible. That is why none of the top 4 clubs have an English keeper playing behind the sticks. And I sure as hell hope we never do.
Foster is not a bad player and I’m not saying he is rubbish. Im just saying we deserve the best in such an important position and we need someone experienced enough to command a defence and make the sort of calls that only a keeper with hundreds and hundreds of games under his belt can make.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:01
@Taehr: Its posts like that, that makes me read redcafe rather then the redrants comments.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:14
@Beachryan: Yea Fergie makes mistakes..Taibi… N yea I would sign Cech in a heartbeat… how would fans like me prevent him from succeeding? Hes the one who just isnt good enough for the club.
@Dan:
August 10th, 2009 at 15:17
@Grognard:
Mate hope u are reading this . A lot has happened in this blog in the recent times with respect to comments made by u esp yesterday regarding Ballack.
We as Man Utd fans are guilty of lot of things. People would go over lengths to defend Rooney at any cost however Ronaldo was always subject to matter of criticism. Same goes with Carrick, Nani, Anderson, Oshea etc. People have their legends in the team and will go any extent to defend them at the criticizm of other UTD players.
One thing u have to realize is that we are unlike Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal. All of us never claim to have the best player in every position. We criticize almost every player in the squad starting from Neville to legends like Scholes. If Pool had a player like Scholes he would still be their no.1 player no matter how he performed. We are not biased , in fact we are critical with proper analytical and reasoning abilities.
That`s in fact the worrying part. Every year all UTD fans make standard accusations like Carrick not controlling the match, Fletcher not providing creative passes, Rooney`s finishing, Berba not scoring, Scholes loosing touch etc. This is why we have been the best for the past few seasons . 3 EPL , 1 CC, 1 UCL, 1 UCL semi 1 UCL finals etc. is actually most amazing era we are having. Every one knows it & the opponents cannot bear it …
There is however one point we are not supposed to cross, thats justifying the opponents move becos we like them. We all like Lampard however his deflected goal is a deflected goal, we like Fabregas however he is rooney like character. This is a universal concept.
The heat and utter disgrace comments which our players get in other boards or forums is a shame. We are not like that. However we say facts.
What Ballack did was just WRONG ! No 2 ways abt it. There was no proffesionalism in what he did. Referee should have called it however that does not take the heat away from Ballack. Chelsea have players with no morale ! What can we expect from Terry, Ricardo, Cole, Drogba, Lamps, Mikel and Ballack !!!
Yeah Keane did it, so did Viera, Keown, Scholes, Bruce etc.. the list goes on. However u cant do what Keano and Viera did & get away with it in the current generation of football.
Before the start of the season we had some great conversations abt how UTD would face problems without another CM, GK, replacements of VDS, Scholes, Giggs etc.. I think the problem there is a fine line which we we misinterpret , “Constructive Criticism” and “Expecting Failure”.
When we say Utd might finish 3rd or 4th , thats some thing which 99% of our supporters cant digest. However there is every reason as to why they cant digest, the one and only being “Sir Alex Ferguson”….
Every Utd fans consider him the greatest manager of sport, players consider him as a father and teacher, press like and dis like him more for reasons like his mind games, post match interview etc. the simple reason being , “Fuc*ing hell , this OLD Man wins it some how” ….
If we cant expect to do well with the new set up under fergie then who else ?? Thank God we are not in same position like AC Milan, Arsenal, Pool or in fact Bayern , from being Europes Elites have faded away …
I post here randomly however always make it a point to read. I have read some excellent reports from people like u abt Aguerro, German keepers etc. Thats some thing which most of us are looking in comments section of blog, a person posting with thorough footie knowledge of not only English footie but across the world ..
Looking forward to ur post here
August 10th, 2009 at 15:18
NANI BACK FOR BIRMINGHAM!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 15:27
I say fuck it, let Chelsea enjoy their Community Shield because its all they are gonna win this season. CL>CS
Even though many of us are negative because we lost, I see no need to. We played a fully fit Chelsea squad without our best goalkeeper, our best right back and our best defender. Valencia got his debut as well, even though he didnt do much… Both the goals we conceded was defensive errors/bad luck/Ref having his Scouse head shuved up his ass! While the goals we scored were brilliant, Nani showing what we want to see more of and Rooney scoring a goal that I will brand “typical Wazza”. Through ball, accelerating past his marker and finishing with a cool shot.
We are gonna be fine for the coming season, believe you me. Foster was full of nerves yesterday, and even though some of us thinks football players shouldnt get nervous, we have to remember that they also are just human beings! I wrote about it yesterday, so Im not gonna go through it again. Foster is gonna turn out great! 
As for Chelsea, they have more than anough power. They have pace on the flanks, and when Joe Cole returns they will become our greatest challenger. But still, we would have fucked them hard as a piledriver if not for a Scouse referee and lack of concentration in defence(which to be honest, is not unlikely to happen rarely the first weeks of the season).
We are gonna rule again!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 15:28
@Footy4Eddy: is that certain?
August 10th, 2009 at 15:29
@Taehr: Mmmmmm – EVDS himself more often than not kicks the ball out of play, or straight to the opposition GK, so none of our GK’s by your kind of assessing mate are up to scratch
. You know what I think the problem is, our defenders and MF obsession with continually putting our GK’s under pressure and having to hurry their kicks, by passing the ball back to them all the time. I blame this on a MF that cannot play the ball game and get themselves out of trouble 
. I hate that continual ball of United’s backwards to the GK all the time.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:34
@Footy4Eddy:
Bastard should have stayed on the field then.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:37
@Craig Mc: Exactly. Foster seems to be a backpass magnet, the midfield and defence know he has a huge kick on him, so they will just pass it back to get them selves out of trouble. Unfair if you ask me me.
August 10th, 2009 at 15:41
What I am reading on this and a good few Man United blogs, is that if United have a not so brilliant season as usual, we will be losing most of the ‘HANGERS ON’. Some folk will only support a team that is trailblazing all the time, and winning everything in sight
. The REAL fans will be there no matter what. Just how many we have at OT if we have a lean year, we will see. But leastways, all the LOCALS will get their opportunity again to snap up the empty seats. Think I am talking TWAT, well the Valencia game for example, the atmosphere was fucking magic all round OT, the stands buzzing, and MOST of the ground was FILLED with local fans, who otherwise apart from friendlies, hardly get a chance to attend, because tickets sold so far in advance. Please all you fans who support us far and wide, don’t think I am having a go at you, most of you would love to be able to get over to OT I know. But the hangers on, will desert the ship whenever we have a lean spell!
August 10th, 2009 at 15:43
@Dan: Most unfair Dan, and costly too if you ask me!
August 10th, 2009 at 15:47
@Craig Mc: Well said bro.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:09
@tevez: Mate Ballack himself admitted he fouled Evra and caught him with flailing arm. I saw the video from the Chelsea website, and Ballack did catch Evras chest first, but then his arm continued flailing upwards and contacted Evra’s face. Ballack said that THE REF GOT IT WRONG, and should have stopped play, but as he didn’t, Chelsea players took advantage and played to the whistle. You could see how embarrassed Lampard was during the colossal boo-ing after he scored, because he was getting the ref attention, and pointing to Evra who was still injured on the floor. With regards to your point about our players not kicking the ball out so Evra could get attention, they had their backs to Evra, so did they seem him behind them lying injured? Its all ifs and buts mate, but Chelsea are of renown as being bad sports ALWAYS – cheats! I agree with Rick though, who mentioned in an earlier post of his, that we have had our own bad boys, with win at all cost mentality!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:11
Do we need a new signing? To be honest, no we dont. We can wish all we want for a David Silva, or De Rossi. But fact is we are pretty good!
Goalkeeper: VDS is a good keeper, and when he returns we will be stronger. As for Foster, except for the game yesterday he has only given indication that we will become a greta goalkeeper for both United and England. Yeah, he made some mistakes! But hasnt VDS made mistakes? Didnt Schmeicel or Kahn make them? Have you never seen Buffon or Casillias fuck up?! Well I will tell you something, its hard to be a goalkeeper. And you will usually fuck up, when your defence fucks up! The Wembley pitch is a disgrace, and the balls Foster got passed back where jumping all over the place! He made some good stops, and A) The first goal wasnt his fault, it was Nanis because he didnt mark Carvalho. B)Its hard to save a Lampard shot when he is free on 18 yards, let alone Chelsea outnumbering us 3-2 on the counter attack. Foster did well to even get to the shot, and if not for a bad swerve the ball wouldnt have gone it. It just passed the line by a few centimetres, so I think Foster did well on that one…
Defence: Evans is class. And I really mean CLASS!!! The guy is immense, and probably the best possible cover for CB you can have. He is composed and classy, but also tough and hard! Rare combo… Vidic is the best defender in the world, and Rio looks back to his best as well. Brown I consider Englands best RB, well ahead of Richards and Johnson. And if Evra continues like he did yesterday, I am glad because we will also have the worlds best LB in our squad.
Fabio from what I have seen is probably even better than Rafael, and I look forward to more from those two. Oshea is decent cover, and with De Laet also coming through there is no need to stregthen that area.
Midfield: Probably the are most people think we should strengthen. But from what I see Fletcher turns into Roy Keane when facing teams like Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal. He is a fucking monster in the big games, and if partnered with Anderson or Giggs he can become our saviour in those crucial games. Ive already gone through our losses last season, and Fletcher played in none of them… Anderson may, MAY turn out to be a brilliant midfielder in a few years, but hopefully we will see a much improved Andy this season. He is strong as a bull, has great speed and fantastic vision. Now if he could show that on a consistent basis it would be great for us!
Giggs still has a few years in him, and looks sharp. His ball for Rooney yesterday was a peach, and he showed against Chelsea last season that he can be vital in close games. Carrick is so-so so far, cant judge him. But he looks to have lost some spirit, if I may say so… Gibson has a big future, but unfotunately Scholesly looks done. Did nothing yestrday, and has been shit in pre-season!
Attack: Rooney will now become the “new Ronaldo” of the team. By that I mean he will be our heart and main attacking threat, and so far it looks to be working. He has shown he can play well with Owen, and to some effect Berba. But they still need to sort out who is going to stay forward and who is going to be the “playmaker” up front. Owen looks a bargain, and will score lots of goals for us if he can stay healthy. Berba, if used correctly, will be vital for this team! He can do most things asked from a striker, but he still misses some huge chances… Should have put away the shot he had when one-on-one with Cech yesterday… Owen should be prefferd in the big games. Then there is also Macheda and Welbeck, who look promising, talented and very hungry to do well and impress. The future looks bright…
August 10th, 2009 at 16:20
@Craig Mc: Couldnt have said it any better bro, its not Foster fault he gets fucked up passes when he is under pressure.
He has one hell of a kick on him, and its sad to see him have to hurry because of our inept midfielders and defenders… Oh well, maybe Nani should dress in a goalkeeper kit, then he will get the ball more often and score more often! Protugeeze magic! 
August 10th, 2009 at 16:21
@Dan:
Im just glad he is back for the weekend, he is gonna be vital for us this season! 
August 10th, 2009 at 16:24
@Footy4Eddy: Agreed we still have the nucleus of a very, very good side….but you cannot deny that we have lost something special….C.Ron gave us that something special…which is coming up with the goods when it mattered. This may be a point that has been made a million times before but the team needs to gather collective responsibility to compensate for the loss of Ronaldo. Rooney and Berbatov especially need to come up with another 10 goals each from somewhere and the midfielders like Anderson need to contribute like 5 goals each for the season to be a huge success. Let’s hope Ronaldo’s departure is a blessing and will get us playing like a true team this season!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:28
Seriously, whats up with Evra and Chelsea? He got that 4 match ban for having a fight with the groundsman in 2008, and now this. You gotta love Pat though, he is United through and through!
BTW, did you guys notice his cheezy grin towards the camera when Wazza made it 2-2?!
Link 0:11, check out Evra coming in from the left
August 10th, 2009 at 16:29
@Footy4Eddy: I do disagree on one thing…that you say Owen will be preferred in the big games. I doubt it, as I read somewhere that Owen never scored against any of the Big4 while at Newcastle, and his last goal against the Big4 was way back in 2003-2004 against the “Invincibles” of Arsenal. Fergie has already said he doesn’t expect Owen to play more than 25 games this season…so I believe that the rationale behind Fergie’s thinking is that he will start Owen against the smaller teams in the league, like Hull and Birmingham, and play Rooney and Berbs in the big games, with Owen coming off the bench. I could be wrong though!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:29
@Nino: We did it when Ruud left, we did it when Cantona left, we did it when Robson left and we will do it again.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:32
@Nino: In the big games you are likely to get a maximum of 5 chances to score, possibly only 2 big ones. And if there is one United player I would like to give that chance, it would be Owen as he is deadly and bought as our goalscorer.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:35
@Footy4Eddy: I hope you’re right mate, I hope you’re right….even though Ronaldo is arguably a bigger loss than any of the players you mentioned (yes even the King!)
August 10th, 2009 at 16:36
@Julian: That’s the spirit Julian. A tip to help you and us – when you are answering a posters comment, press on the arrow in the little blue square next to his poster name, and it will bring you to the posting block, where the person you are replying too, and more importantly the post comment you are replying to will give you the persons postername in RED. Then if for instance I press on the red postername shown, then I can get back to the comment you are answering. Hope I didn’t complicate this instruction for you
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August 10th, 2009 at 16:37
@Footy4Eddy: Agreed…but will Fergie see it that way though? And more importantly…can Owen still hack it in the big games? This season will certainly be an interesting one that’s for sure!!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:39
@Nino: Ronaldo could be a wizard, but he could also be as annoying as a 5 year old kid in a supermarket. Even though he scored 26 goals last season, he had more than 130 shots in all competitions. Which is shit when you think of it… Its 1 goal in 5 shots. As good as he were, he fucked up for us as well at times. Im not saying we will fuck up without Ronaldo, but we would have fucked up with him here as well. In the end, Ronaldo is just another player. While Eric, he wasnt just a player. He wasnt even a man! He was Cantona.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:45
I wonder how many games we’re going to have to get through before Fergie plays both Nani and Valencia. I honestly think that this will put opposing teams onto the backfoot, because they don’t know which side to focus on. Yesterday you could pretty much guarantee that wherever Park was, the ball would go the other way. Chelsea realised this and started marking accordingly, and snuffed our attacking out. With both of them on, the chances of a 1 on 1 or similar increases dramatically. Plus Valencia looks like he’s more than able to cover defensively. Come on Fergie…try it out eh?
Further, for all those complaining we keep getting bossed in the midfield – well yes, we do, because we don’t have as many players there! We owned the sidelines yesterday, at the expense of the middle of the pitch. Chelsea played quite narrow, and so between Lampard, Essien, Mikel and Anelka dropping deep they’d always outnumber Carrick and Fletch in the centre. Clearly it was something Fergie was willing to risk, and it served us well for a large chunk of the match. We were only overrun on occasion.
Unrelated – but is anyone else quite scared on corner kicks?
August 10th, 2009 at 16:46
@Footy4Eddy: Lil man in GK kit, I think his shoulder damage yesterday has put payed to that
.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:48
@Craig Mc: Nani heals himself Jesus style!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:53
@Traverse: Did you jump inside my head and copy my thought? Well, said then!
August 10th, 2009 at 16:53
@Footy4Eddy: If you don’t buy the raffle ticket you don’t win it’s as simple as that. Or in a footballing context, if you don’t shoot you don’t score. I’m happy that Ronaldo needed no invitation to pull the trigger, unlike our shot shy midfielders like Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Park etc. You say a 1 in 5 conversion rate, or 20%, for C.Ron. That’s bloody good in my book, even top world-class strikers like Torres and Eto’o will struggle to top that.
When I compared Ronaldo with Cantona, I was comparing them technically and I believe that Ronaldo is a far superior and more complete player than Cantona was. But in terms of on and off-the-pitch influence, I agree that Cantona > Ron, as Eric instigated the initial resurgence of United in the early 90’s and lifted us out of the doldrums, whilst we were already successful when Ron came to us and played for us.
August 10th, 2009 at 16:57
@Craig Mc:
Almost all chelsea players have fuse blown from their brain. Drogba, Ballack, Terry at UCL, Cole for that most talked abt tackle against tottenham and how he turned his back to referee, Obi Mikel is accused no.1, Carvalho
@Footy4Eddy:
We definitely need one more proper CM. Any small term injury to Carrick our engine wont work properly. May be Silva, Sneijder, De Rossi etc. However if Hargo comes back soon we are perfectly ready for every position. I wouldn’t count on that
August 10th, 2009 at 17:04
@Rick: We have got Anderson!
August 10th, 2009 at 17:05
I think Michael Carrick is in no way a good central MF. He has his qaulities, but he is very poor on TACKLING. I wonder if he shouldn’t be employed in AMF, because he can thread great and accurate passes when on form. Fletch is getting better with aggressive tackling, but is still loose with his passing often not reaching its target. He can pop up though and get good goals in tight games. He almost did that yesterday! What we need is somebody in the Hargo role just in front of back four, who commands the line, sweeps up magnificently, and allows nobody to get by him. Any suggestions anybody? Even in our reserves, we don’t seem to have that kind of player!
Don’t all jump on me will you, but I would love to see us break the bank to buy a prolific goalscorer – you know the one chance, one goal – a younger model of Thierry Henry
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August 10th, 2009 at 17:09
@Nino: If you compare the technical ability with the period it happends, I will disagree with you and say that Cantona was a better player. We see some “new” Ronaldos these days, in Nani, Messi and possibly also Torres. And there is probably many more talents in the world who will become better than Ronaldo. You have to remember that 13 years is a long time, and in 2022 we all may say Ronaldo was good, but it will be a player who does what Ronaldo did without any problem! Period for period, Cantona was a better player.
As for a goal each 5 shot, I think Torres` is 1 in 3 and Etoo is 1 in 2,7… I want our players to shoot more often, because from what I hear Carrick, Anderson and also Fletcher has one hell of a shot on them! Maybe they will grasp the opportunity more often now that Ronaldo has left.
August 10th, 2009 at 17:13
@Rick: Too true about the Chelski players you mentioned Rick
. However, I did notice yesterday that DOGba had stopped YAPPING, snarling and barking, and was actually trying to play peacemaker and keep Evra out of trouble, with arm around him towards end of game, when Evra would have rushed to Ballack and tried to SORT him proper 
. DOGba – more cool and composed, who would have ever thought it eh? Ballack still the hotheaded, dirty bastard he always was though.
August 10th, 2009 at 17:15
@Footy4Eddy:
Yeah , Ando is there .. One quick question , have we every played Ando and Fletcher together ?? I cant seem to recollect any match of their combo.
@Craig Mc:
Well Carrick is a CM mate .. His tackling might not be good however his interceptions are top class.
One of my old posts i stressed about the point where we have no CM in our reserves too. Ljajic, Obertan, Petrucci etc.. are all attacking players.
August 10th, 2009 at 17:16
@Craig Mc: Ok then maybe I should have said Van De Sar is comfortable using his feet. One touch to set himself and the balls gone. Foster looks like hes never seen the ball and twice yesterday he could have lost the ball. Had to that his failing to control the ball in asia and we have a problem in goals anywayz I hope the lad gets his head straight and starts playing well. Otherwise were fucked
August 10th, 2009 at 17:20
@Taehr: Keep the faith Taehr, It’s SAF’s headache
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August 10th, 2009 at 17:23
@Footy4Eddy: saw that too he looks like Djimon Hounsou in blood diamond when he goes crazy and beats the shit out of people. right when he gets the rage he does that move where he straitens his arms and fingers out fully and then screams with wild eyes. evra did a perfect impression w/o the scream
August 10th, 2009 at 17:24
@Rick: Carricks slow though Rick, and he does have problems with those long gangly legs of his, and when trying to shoot, all to often needs far too much time, and gets ball stuck in his feet
. I wish the lad had MORE PRESENCE too though Rick. Don’t want much do I? 
. Still as long as he pulls on the red shirt, he still gets my vocal support. He is one who does love Man United though, and would never leave unless he was pushed 
.
August 10th, 2009 at 17:26
@gator:
August 10th, 2009 at 17:29
@Beachryan: dont worry im pretty sure valencia and nani will be in the same side the majority of the time, fergie just had to play park as he is a safe choice against strong teams and also he will be bedding valencia in slowly without to much pressure, but the end product will be two penetrating wingers and park on the bench
August 10th, 2009 at 17:59
@Craig Mc: @Craig Mc: Those goalscorers aren’t exactly a dime a dozen are they? I can only think of Torres, Villa, Eto’o, RvN and Huntelaar off the top of my head who are like that. But if Micky Owen gets back to his very best, then who knows ….
August 10th, 2009 at 18:00
@Craig Mc: I agree with the attitude part about Carrick. He’s still respected at West Ham because he stayed with them when they went down.
And I also think, despite his passing, he is still limited as a player because he lacks that urgency needed to boss the game.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:04
@Footy4Eddy: I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then lol, because although a great player, if Cantona was as good as you say, he would not have been supplanted by Zidane in the French national team. I see what you’re saying about the era thing, and I say that Ronaldo is this era’s standout footballer and the equivalent to Zidane of the last era.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:08
@Red Ranter:
, fletcher makes excellent runs into the box , so does giggs ..
Well he just needs a verbal push from fergie. I think he fails to realize that he has the capacity to change the course of the match totally. Anderson has the attribute hence he tries his Hollywood pass
I think the problem with our Carrick is his performance has always been standard with minor fluctuations on either side.He surely has the 20% more in him to do some real damage. Perhaps he can start off by just shooting at least once in a match.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:09
@Red Ranter: I hope I’m not being too harsh when I say that Carrick, while I like him very much, is a poor man’s Pirlo or Iniesta. In the very biggest games I think he flounders and goes missing, like in the 2009 Champions League Final. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a very, very good player who I rate highly, but ultimately he’s just a tad short of world class, while the other two guys I mentioned are the best in the business at what they do by a country mile. I think the only midfielder we have who comes close to being genuinely world-class is Hargo (when fit of course!).
August 10th, 2009 at 18:32
@Nino: You are not harsh. I’d go one step further, if he doesn’t have a good defensive midfielder to help him out he’s not just a poor man’s Iniesta, he’s a homeless refugee’s Iniesta. (Pirlo, on his last season form, was shite)
It might be harsh, but on the flip side, if he gets a very good player to do the mopping up for him he would be great. He will never hit the world class level, of that I can be sure.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:34
I want to have a good moan and rant and I believe that with the loss of Ronaldo, we have lost perhaps our only true world-class player. The problem I see is that the likes of Evra, Rooney, Vidic, Carrick, Rio, Berbatov are just very, very good players. They’re not world class. And there lies the problem.
Barcelona have Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Alves who are world-class players for sure. Real have Casillas, Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka who are bonafide world-class superstars. Even Chelsea (Drogba, Lampard, Essien) and Liverpool (Gerrard, Torres) have world-class players who can be relied upon to turn a game when it matters.
I worry that we don’t have the player who can change a game with a flash of the boot like Ronaldo did (a very good example would be the 40-yard exocet against Porto without which our defence of the CL would have ended at the QF stage). Our get out of jail card if you like, which every top team needs when things aren’t going their way.
I don’t consider Rooney world-class just yet, but he’s knocking on the door for sure. Berbatov has the capability to do mind-boggling things but cannot seem to show it regularly. Rio was definitely world class a couple of seasons ago, but has declined ever so slightly. Vidic is a very consistent defender but his lapses against Liverpool and Barcelona leave some cause for concern. Carrick like I said in my previous comment has never really convinced me he can cut it at the very, very highest level.
So a collection of very, very good footballers and hardly any genuinely world-class ones means that we fail to convince on the grandest stages and might become unstuck when we play the biggest teams. Even in the 2008 CL Final I do not think we were superior to Chelsea and in 2009 we met our match finally against a superior team.
This was just something I wanted to get off my chest and I’m not really bothered whether anyone wants to agree or disagree with me.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:34
@Nino: Everyone says that David Villa would not move to England, yet I am not sure how true that is. In his post match interview after our game against Valencia, he said “It is so amazing to play at Manchester United. How great it was, and how much he enjoyed OT. I really believe we could get him if SAF really wanted him, and was willing to break the bank! Same goes with Silva too. Although it was Villa who was raving about how good Mcr United is a place to play!
August 10th, 2009 at 18:35
Foster injured???!!! SHOCKING! Iv never heard of an injury prone keeper like Foster…Come on Fergie give Tomas a try
August 10th, 2009 at 18:43
@Taehr: Just heard the news. Let’s see our youth goalies now! Otherwise what’s the point of having them? I wanna see what Amos, Heaton (I think he’s out on loan?) and Ron-Robert Zieler have to offer. Promote one of them onto the bench. I bet PIG can’t believe his luck now!!
August 10th, 2009 at 18:45
@Nino: Nothing like getting things off your chest Nino, whether people agree or not. With regards to all the talk about World class players, what is WORLD CLASS REALLY? I think it is a very over rated term. Gerrard for instance has flopped on the INTERNATIONAL stage, and Spain apart from their recent success, never did anything on the international stage, though they boasted world class players. United just need two players I feel, a player with real presence and control of MF, and a striker extraordinaire. Yet we will just have to see over the next few games whether we can come good with present players. I’ll tell you this, everyone raving about how powerful Chelsea are, and world class players, yet AGAINST speed and trickery they are totally undone. Rafael and Nani scared the shit out of their defenders with blistering speed coming at them from the wings. If we had managed to keep up our speed for the 2nd half as in the first, we would have DONE the Chelsea geriatrics for sure.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:47
Nino, I meant Fabio and not Rafael
August 10th, 2009 at 18:49
@Taehr: Well, maybe if he was hurt and carrying a knock, that might have affected his game yesterday!
August 10th, 2009 at 18:51
@Craig Mc: I define world-class as a player who can turn it on when it truly matters, change the outcome of a game with a single action or consistently gets his team out of shit. Or as our trans-Atlantic friends such as Grognard would say…a ‘clutch’ player lol. I don’t think we currently have a player who fits that category, although there are a few who come close.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:52
@Red Ranter: Yeah RR, I really feel we lack A REAL PRESENCE in MF, someone who is all action, and refuses to lose.
August 10th, 2009 at 18:53
@Craig Mc: Craig , giving excuses are we for yesterdays performance ??
August 10th, 2009 at 18:56
@Rick: Awwww, I really feel for Foster though Rick, but if he was carrying a knock, why didn’t he take himself off, and let PIG take over
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August 10th, 2009 at 19:03
@Craig Mc:
ha ha .. Dont worry PIG is going to take over soon
.. May be what Foster really needs a couple of impressive performance from PIG , so that he will realize that he is not assured starting 11 player
August 10th, 2009 at 19:03
I took the Wkend and today off work, to get over having my brother and his partying mates visiting all last week. So nose back to the grindstone starting tomorrow
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August 10th, 2009 at 19:25
Of all our midfielders, Carrick and Scholes are the ones I think are least necesarry. Gibson can shoot like DAUUUUMNNNN!!!, Anderson has pace and vision, Giggs has pace and can bring oppositions out of their original position, and Fletcher is a hard worker and looks like a world beater when facing really good teams. Scholes doesnt shoot anymore, and his passing is off. He cant tackle, he cant head and he cant get into tough midfield battles. His passing tends to be good, but lately its been waaaay off! Its been shite, and when he cant pass what can he do?!
As for Carrick, he is slow, needs time and space to do something and I wouldnt exactly call him the best tackler Ive seen in my life. He does have a good shot though, but he doesnt shoot enough… His passing is not to be critisised though. I still think he is a good player, but come the end of the season we may all prefer Anderson, Giggs or maybe even Gibson to him! I guess only time will tell…
A lot of players have to step up their game now that Ronny has left, and Carrick is definately one of them.
August 10th, 2009 at 19:28
So Foster is injured again…
Fuck, hope he is back for Sunday. An injury was the last thing he needed…
As for the injury. Does it say what it is? Cause from what I saw he looked pretty sad, maybe he is emotionally hurt or something?
August 10th, 2009 at 19:47
@Nino: Very well getting that moan out man, but what I feel after reading you ‘moan’ is a case of ‘the grass is always greener’. How a team that has won an unpecedented amount of tophies this last couple of seasons boast no world-class players is beyond me??
You say Rio and Vidic are not worldclass?? The best defensive pairing in the world right now?? You then mention Rooney as not being woldclass?? A player who along with Ronnie destroyed defenses and even won us games singlehandedly with moments of brilliance over the last few seasons?? Yet you see fit to ordain players like Alves as worldclass??
You can’t use one-off examples of their mistakes as a stick to beat our stars with. All the world-class players you mentioned have had even worse performances than some of our stars. You mention the 2008 CL final; well, in the previous round, did any of Barca’s worldclass players grab the game by the scruff of the neck and beat us in the semis?? Whenever we play teams on our level, it almost usually comes to tactics and moments of brilliance. The former is what always lets us down. Our tactics are usually shite against top opponents. Last season against most top opponents, Rooney was shunted to the left, Park was on the pitch and Berba was playing Atacking mid. I mean what was Fergie expecting?? Look at the game yesterday; if not for our lame attempts at taking penalties, that equalising goal by Rooney would have been all the rage today. Brilliant through ball, followed by a well controlled finish, in extra-time, where the composure is suppoed to be gone.
The grass is never greener my friend. Ask most unbiased opposing fans how many of our players they think are world class and would want in their team and I bet you, they would mention at least three…
Had to get that off my chest too mate!
August 10th, 2009 at 19:55
@Footy4Eddy: I think its just a knock. Nothing serious.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:03
@Gabriel: I can tell you this Gabriel Bro – the Abu Dhabi midas corporation across the City are determined to BUY Rooney, Vidic, Evans, Fabio and Nani. I hear there policy is going to be, that to be the best in Mcr and then worldwide, the way forward is to strip United of every class player. Their philosophy is that SAF will be leaving in next couple of years, and then they will have little impeding their plan to get United top players. City fans down the pub, talk about this quite openly!
August 10th, 2009 at 20:09
@Gabriel: Nice counter-rant mate lol. Like I said, I’m really not too bothered whether people agree or disagree with my rant, but I have to disagree with you on one point. The Rio-Vidic axis is a pairing which I believe is greater than the sum of its parts. I am of the opinion that Rio and Vidic alone are not true world class defenders. The best defender in the world would (or should) be able to handle any type of striker, but have you noticed how Rio often struggles against powerful forwards such as Drogba, while Vidic is sometimes exposed against pacy forwards like Eto’o and Torres. The fact is that they complement each other as they both possess qualities that the other lacks, which is why the partnership is so successful, but the players on their own are not complete defenders.
Also I’d just like to add that it’s not necessarily about the grass being greener; sometimes it’s just about taking a step back and removing the red-tinted glasses to analyse the squad. Even Red Ranter said earlier on this thread that he doesn’t think Carrick is anywhere near the same level of Pirlo and Iniesta, whereas people like you would probably extol Carrick’s virtues and defend him until you’re blue in the face. And to counter your opening statement, we definitely didn’t win all those trophies without any world-class players in our team, but sadly the only one we had has gone so I’m just curious to see how we cope without him.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:22
@Nino: Ehhh…
Rooney=World Class, best English player at the moment
Nani=potensially world class
Fletcher=Against big teams he looks like Roy Keane
Vidic=Best defender in the world
Rio=Second best defender in the world
Brown=The best right back in England
Valencia=Potesial to become a world class winger
Anderson=The best player in the world!
Oh well…
August 10th, 2009 at 20:32
@Nino: Nice kickback yourself mate!
However, I have to again disagree with you not classing Rio and Vidic as worldclass, individually or as a unit. That is just blasphemy, red-tintedness or not. We are talking about world-class forwards here. It’s not like everytime Rio or Vidic face a worldclass forward, they bend over and take one up the shitter. I remember Rio giving a ‘worldclass’ Torres a schooling two seasons ago or Vidic keeping ‘worldclass’ Drogba at bay a few times. Every dog has it’s day. These strikers would not be ‘worldclass’ if they couldn’t once in a while beat fellow worldclass defenders. Also, all that talk about complementing each other is very true, as each player has strengths and weaknesses but not as polarised/glaring as you’re making them out to be. Ferdinand and Vidic on their own are as close to perfect prototypes of how defenders should be. If you can find any better examples currently playing, please feel free to mention.
And NO, I would not exxagerate Carricks’ capabilities or defend his weaknesses nor would I even call him worldclass, because he isn’t. That is why I didn’t mention him in my last post. We have worldclass players mate, and as of now, I would put Rio, Vidic, Rooney and possibly VDS in that category.
August 10th, 2009 at 20:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmXOfasRxA&feature=related
20LEgend, What a man, what a player…
August 10th, 2009 at 20:38
@Craig Mc: City are a bunch of deluded crazies mate!!
Sign Rooney!! That’ll be the day I have to shoot bacon off the sky!! 
However, they are going to be quite a force from now on. They have a semi-talented ’squad’ and that’s what matters. They can cope with injuries, have enough personnel to prevent fatigue and are playing in considerably less competitions than their main rivals (no CL, no Europa league). The only hinderance they might have is establishing team chemistry, a winning mentality and keeping squad balance (now that they have a certain argentinean who doesn’t grasp the concept of squad balance/rotation 
) 
August 10th, 2009 at 20:43
@Footy4Eddy: lol
August 10th, 2009 at 20:48
lads any update on OUR BELOVED nani???
also wayne rooney is world class, and will only get better too, some of u guys just love to critise
and we would of won the cl final if nani and ronaldo played wide and rooney up top with berba or tevez. so tactically we are flawed but in terms of class we are WORLDclass
August 10th, 2009 at 21:07
@Gabriel: While it is true that Rio owns Torres and Vidic bosses Drogba, the point I was trying to make was that it wouldn’t work the other way round, as Vidic is not as fast as Rio and Rio isn’t as brutal as Vidic.
OK you know what, I will concede Rio is a worldclass player purely because some of his defensive displays in 2007-08 were simply breathtaking, like watching Baresi, but how old is he now…31? He’s approaching the end of his peak years and about to enter the twilight of his career. He was injured quite a lot last season and didn’t quite hit the same heights as the previous season. It’s all going to go downhill for Rio from now on, and he’s probably only got another three or four years left at the top, though a very fine defender he shall remain until he hangs up his boots.
Vidic is there or thereabouts, but his performances in big games is what worries me. Otherwise I’d have no hesitation in labeling him as the best defender of his generation by a country mile!
I will however stand by my belief that Rooney is merely on the cusp of becoming world-class, but isn’t quite there yet. Maybe the presence of Ronaldo (and his ego) held him back all these years, but we shall see this season whether Rooney blossoms into the finished article who bangs in 30+ goals like we know he can.
Like Eddy said, we have several players on the verge of becoming world class or have the potential to be, but the question I have been posing all along is: how many are actually there yet? At this moment I would only say Rio (and possibly Vidic).
August 10th, 2009 at 21:08
Any Scottish lads on here travelling to Oslo for the World Cup qualifier on Wednesday? Cause guess what, Im there! You hear me bitches?! Im fucking there!!!
Gonna try to get Fletchs autograph after the game! Anybody thinks Fergie is going to the game, then we have a chance to catch up again!
Aahh, good times… 
August 10th, 2009 at 21:24
@Craig Mc:
True,complete bunch of wankers, drinking from their cup of wealth. No class, no humility, no trophies.
August 10th, 2009 at 21:32
@Nino: Right now our world class players are:
1. Wayne Rooney
2. Rio Ferdinand
3. Nemanja Vidic
4. Owen Hargreaves
4,5. Darren Fletcher in the big games.(And yes, Im actually being honest here!)
That is almost 5 players, but I will count 4 because Owen and Fletcher together only counts as 1. They are two 0,5 World Class players, if you get me?
Liverpool have 2. Chelsea have 3. Barca have 5, but they are good enough to make the team work as one and that is why they are so good. Real have close to 8(!) World Class players, but they will suck because they dont know how to play as a team. Too many “world class” players is bad for a team.
As for Chelsea, Drogba is soon 32 and Lampard is into his 30ies as well. They are only getting older, and will become weaker and slower. If you think Rio soon will be too old, Drogba and Lamps are already there.
Right now, only Essien is world class. And maybe Carvalho, who I rate highly. Gerrad is also into his 30ies in two years time, while we only have gotten young talent who will blossom by then. Dont worry mate, the future is bright… 
August 10th, 2009 at 21:32
@Nino: lol.. now your arguement against Rio is that he is getting old??
As for Vidic, I don’t see how one or two lapses in concentration, against fellow worldclass players, is reason enough to exclude him from being worldclass. I mean, the guy carried our defense all thru last season, thru that clean sheet spell, thru everything. How you do not think he is worldclass is beyond me??? (Excuse my bewilderment, it’s just not everyday you read outlandish views as this). Also, I see you have failed to mention any better defenders currently plying their trade !?!
Plus, if you’re expectin Rooney to bang in 30+ goals, you’ll be waiting quite a bit, as he is a supporting striker and is played as such. Now, if you said 25+ goals and 10+ assists, i’ll say yeah, he’s capable of that as a supporting striker, why?? Because he’s frackin World class!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 21:33
@Craig Mc: City are going down with a million in the bank!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 21:36
@Footy4Eddy:
Potential World Class
Nani(sorry Craig)
Macheda
Da Silva Da Silva
Macheda
Welbeck
Anderson
Valencia
De Laet
The future’s bright
August 10th, 2009 at 21:42
@Cyclops-Red: I would like to add Evans to that list.
August 10th, 2009 at 21:45
@Footy4Eddy:
Sorry I forgot to add semi-world class
August 10th, 2009 at 21:47
To say Schmeicel never did any mistakes is biased. Even though he was a great keeper, he, as every other keeper does, made mistakes. Think back to Bayerns opening goal in the `99 final, and then there is also the number 4 on this list:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmYQeTOPWZA
But then he also does this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN1LCLynkAM
August 10th, 2009 at 21:47
@Nino: The Cantona / France thing was a personal matter not a football matter. He hates French football and the French league and that didn’t go over well with the national team hierarchy. He thinks French football is slow and boring.
He’s said there are only two jobs in management he would take, Manchester United or England, and that’s why we love him.
August 10th, 2009 at 21:53
Cantona was a God. Comparing him to Ronaldo is an insult to the King. Not only was Cantona the most amazing player/person the ever grace the Old Trafford turf, but unlike Ronaldo he loved this club more than he loved himself. He told France to fuck off and that is why he never won the best player of the year awar! He was a football God, and I believe he has something inside him that will forever grant him a place in all United supporters hearts! Eric was not a man- He was Cantona
August 10th, 2009 at 21:53
@Cyclops-Red: Then where is Foster?
August 10th, 2009 at 22:08
@Footy4Eddy:
Potential Potential World Class
Ben should be given a chance. Has he been wihdrawn from the England squad conveniently because of poor form ? Difficult questions for the Fergmeister. I think give him half a dozen games then assess the situation before we buy Buffon.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:26
@Cyclops-Red: No need for apology mate, I know Lil man is not world class yet, but then WHAT IS WORLD CLASS
. Don’t think anyone really knows. I would just like Nani to get lots of games this season, and score a good few goals, that will do me. If SAF gives Nani the same NURTURING he did Ronnie, then I think he can go a long way in progressing.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:29
By the way, did anyone notice how Nani ran to celebrate with THE UNITED FAITHFUL when he scored at Wembley. The lad just wants to be loved and accepted as Ronnie and Ander – son, son, son. I hope the United fans appreciate that their LOUD support for ALL our players will help bring confidence and improved performances!
August 10th, 2009 at 22:30
@Footy4Eddy: I wish Eddi!
August 10th, 2009 at 22:33
@Gabriel: The fact that you tried to lump Rooney in with ronaldo shows me that you know what world class is, and Rooney isnt it. He is knocking on the door but not quite there. the absence of ronaldo this season will finally give him the chance to prove how good he is.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:33
@Craig Mc: World class means that the world think you are a class player. That not only do the fans of your club think you are a great player, but that other fans think as well. Like we think Torres and Gerrard are good players, we think Essien is good and likewise with Iniesta, Messi and Xavi. Get it?
If my theory is correct then Rooney, Nani, Vidic, Rio and Evra are all world class.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:34
@Cyclops-Red:
Evans is already world class. And im serious about that.
Forget the Nanis, the andersons, the obertans etc. They are all potentially world class players that we BOUGHT.
Evans is world class and vame from our academy
August 10th, 2009 at 22:35
@Gabriel: Not to mention Gabriel that the very top teams Real M, Barca, L’pool, Inter and AC Milan, Chelski, and the not so top club moneybags Man Pity, are all AFTER VIDIC. Nino needs to ask himself why that is, because that alone should tell you that he is rated world class by all the best clubs
.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:36
@Craig Mc: It was really touching, the first thing I thought was “Wow, this dude really loves our club! Finally a portugeez who shows heart to us. Feel bad for him not getting enough chances last season…”
What I enjoyed the most though was his summersault!
Keep them up Nanananananananananananani!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 22:39
@Footy4Eddy: Rooney is not the best english player, he isnt even the best scouser. Love him or hate him, Stevie Me is easily better than rooney. Gerrard has performed on the biggest stage and saved liverpools bacon countless times. Say what you want about his record with England, but who has played well for england over the past 10 years?
August 10th, 2009 at 22:42
@Dan: are you serious about evans being world class?
August 10th, 2009 at 22:43
@johnsom33: Meh, international class i would say. Not world class yet, but is bloody close.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:48
@Gabriel: You left Nani out – you bastard Gabriel, how could you ?
.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:52
@Dan: Hey Dan, we can NEVER forget Nani
.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:53
@johnsom33: Rooney is better than Stevie Me, only reason that classless cunt looks better is because Liverpool have no quality players and only rely on him. If you put Rooney in Rochdale I bet he would look 2951 times the player Ronaldo looked at United. When playing for England Gerrard looks ordinary, while Rooney performs each games and impresses with the best players in the world around him. Even for England he shows his class, which is why you can consider him world class.
August 10th, 2009 at 22:54
@Craig Mc:
August 10th, 2009 at 22:56
@johnsom33: He has more than enough potensial to become one, he has a major facter in our clean sheet record last season. He played more games than Rio in our shut-out record so he defo can become a United legend. Hope he follows Nanis footsteps and tell Barca to fuck off!!!
August 10th, 2009 at 22:56
@johnsom33: Barca want Evans and Vidic, and they only buy the very best, so that should tell you something bro
. They also made an offer for Nani after CL final in Rome, so they obviously can see what has eluded SAF thus far. I think he is just catching on to Nani 
. Took Barca to make SAF look at Nani in different light eh?
August 10th, 2009 at 23:00
@Dan:
Mate, I would love the fact that we brought through all our youth players through the academy system but the truth is we can’t. We have to buy due to stupid FA rules so at the moment I back all our potential players whatever we’ve “paid” for them.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:00
@Craig Mc: hehe… If his outings so far this pre-season are anything to go by, he’ll definitely be included in that category soon!!
Besides, you know I love lil’ man Nani 
.. not as much as you do obviously 
August 10th, 2009 at 23:04
@Gabriel: Michael Turner is a far better defender than Vidic could ever dream of being!!! That’s why even Rafa is interested in bringing him to Liverpool!
Seriously though, yes I cannot really think of any better defenders at present than Rio and Vidic but I still reserve my judgement on Vidic.
Rooney getting 30+ goals is not unreasonable given that he is our main striker and will alternate with either Berba, Owen or Macheda, therefore as Rooney gets the most game time he should be expected to score the most goals. Just because he is a support striker doesn’t mean he should be limited to 20-25 goals, especially given his outrageous talent. If Messi, who is not a centre forward, can score 38 goals in a season and Ronaldo 42, it is not beyond Wayne to emulate these guys and break the 30 goal barrier.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:11
@johnsom33: I know what World Class is, and Rooney is it. Like you said,he hasn’t been given the chance to prove so these last few seasons with our play focused around Ronnie. Now Ronnie is gone, Roon will take centre stage (If Fergie resists the temptation to play him on the wings
).
I actually did not ‘lump’ him with Ronnie as much as I hinted that they had a great partnership and worked well in tandem to destroy opponents. Most top strikers usually have a partner they play well with or a midfielder that supplies them with quality service to feed off. Ronnie was Roon’s partner (no homo
), with Ronnie the more dominant (pitcher 
). Rooney had more of his fair share of individual awe-inspiring moments, esp when he was still being employed as a central/supporting striker and not on the wings and this season, i’m pretty sure there’ll be more to come. He is worldclass mate and you know it!! 
August 10th, 2009 at 23:11
@Footy4Eddy: If Hargo comes back from injury and gets back to his best I will gladly rate him as another world class player in our squad – until then I think Rio is still the only true world class player we have at present after Ronaldo’s departure.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:13
@johnsom33: Thanks mate, you’ve re-iterated what I’ve been saying all along: Rooney is not quite there yet! He still has some work to do to become truly world class.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:19
@Nino: Michael Turnip a far better player than Vidic – seriously Nino, do give over mate
. A little clue, your statement must be why Vidic plays for Man United and Turnip for Hull City 
– right?
August 10th, 2009 at 23:21
@Gabriel: A great season of breathtaking football from Nani will do me Gabriel. I guess I must be just about the only one who sees what BARCA coaching staff can obviously see in Lil man Luis Nani
.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:23
@Footy4Eddy: No offence mate, but that is the worst definition of the term world-class ever! I think Mikel Arteta is a class player so does that make him world-class?
I think a better way of thinking about it could be like this: say you are composing a fantasy team or XI of the world’s best players (with five subs if you want). What are the first names that come into your head for each position?? Torres as striker? Ronaldo on the wing? Kaka in the hole? Buffon in goal? Casillas on the bench? Am I right?
Its these kind of players that can be considered as world class in my book – that they’d be the first names on a fantasy teamsheet that you’d put without thinking. The creme de la creme of world football.
Obviously us Man Utd fans will be biased, but how many neutral fans would pick Evra over Lahm for the LB slot? Or Berbatov over Villa for striker? Or Rooney over Messi for the support striker role? Or van der Sar over Buffon? I doubt many would.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:26
@Craig Mc: Wow, Craig man, you actually thought I was serious about Michael Turner!
August 10th, 2009 at 23:28
@Nino:
Turner better than Nemanja
August 10th, 2009 at 23:36
@Cyclops-Red: Cyclops man, you know I’m only trying to wind Gabriel up.
To evrybody else: NO I haven’t lost it if that’s what you’re thinking. Gabriel challenged me to name a better defender than Vidic and I just said Micheal Turner for a joke ‘cos I couldn’t think of any. But that doesn’t mean I think Vidic is world-class because I still think he has room for improvement and it also goes to show the dearth of top, standout defenders in todays game in my opinion.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:39
@Nino: So, you’re saying there can only be 16 world-class players in the world at any moment? ; as that is the max amount you can include in the fantasy squad!?! There is no limit on the amount of worldclass players mate. Of course there are players better out there better than our stars, but that doesn’t make them not worldclass. I’m sure if you were thinking about support strikers to put in your fantasy XI, you’d think up a few and Rooney would be one of ‘em even if you opt for someone else.
Btw, excuse my persistence with this but it is partly due to the mancrush I have for Wayne Rooney!!
My favourite United Player at the moment, if not ever!! 
August 10th, 2009 at 23:42
@Nino:
August 10th, 2009 at 23:48
@Nino: The worlds best fullback Lahm
, the same Lahm who was continually skinned by Nani in the Audi cup game 
.
August 10th, 2009 at 23:53
@Nino: I bet there are more than just 16 World class players in the world mate, so that makes my explanation better than yours.
But have it your way, lets categorice it! Best team:
Casilllias
Maicon Rio Vidic Lahm
Ronaldo Essien Iniesta Messi
Torres Kaka
subs: Buffon, Albidal, Carvalho, Xavi, De Rossi, Rooney, Villa
Where is Etoo? Gerrard? Ibrahimobitch? Cambiasso, Benzema, Drogba and Michael Turner are also missing. Does that mean they arent world class? Fuck no it doesnt!
There are way too many world class players to name them all, so I think what the exact meaning of “World Class” is still an open discussion and is not settled yet…
August 10th, 2009 at 23:54
@Craig Mc: Just proves how good Nani is…
August 10th, 2009 at 23:56
@Gabriel: Hmmm…I suppose there is an huge element of opinion and bias to all this. You think Rooney and Vidic are world-class and I do not. I just think they are very, very good players.
A dictionary definition of world class is as follows: “Ranking among the foremost in the world; of an international standard of excellence; of the highest order”. Different people would interpret that in various ways, but in a footballing context, I personally would interpret a world class player to be among the top 2 (possibly 3) players in the world in his position.
It’s all a matter of opinion I guess. Some people think Gerrard and Lampard are world class midfielders, some people think they are grossly overrated players. I can see we aren’t going to get anywhere with this so I’m just gonna call it a day and head off to bed. Night all!
August 11th, 2009 at 0:00
@Cyclops-Red:
August 11th, 2009 at 0:01
@Nino:
There must be at least 2-3 world class players per position so at least 22 players maybe 30?
August 11th, 2009 at 0:10
@Footy4Eddy: Like I said, its all down to opinion at the end of the day. You think the likes of Benzema, De Rossi, Cambiasso, Carvalho are world-class…I would not let them anywhere near the bench, never mind my first XI.
Just for the record, this is my dream team with hypothetically fully fit and on form current players:
Buffon
Alves Rio Puyol Lahm
C.Ron Essien Iniesta Messi
Torres Drogba
Casillas, Lucio, Maicon, Xavi, Gerrard, Kaka, Etoo.
Similar to yours Eddy but with a few differences. Now I really am off!!
August 11th, 2009 at 0:22
@Nino: Puyol>Vidic?!!!!??!??!?!?!
Wow… Didnt expect that to be honest!
August 11th, 2009 at 0:29
For me our world class players are Rio, Vidic and Rooney. Chelsea have Cech, Essien, Drogba, Lampard. Liverpool have Gerrard and Torres. Arsenal have Arshavin and Fabregas. Barcelona have Iniesta, Messi, Xavi, Alves.
So based on that analysis with the loss of Ronaldo the balance of power has shifted and now Barca and Chelsea have a big edge over us. I would say this is greater because both these teams have their world class players loaded in midfield and big games are often decided by the midfield battle and we will lose every time against those teams!
If we buy a world class midfielder we’ll stay competitive. But without that player we are going to lag behind. While we have a lot of young players coming through the only players that show real signs of becoming world class are Evans, Nani, Macheda, Welbeck, and the twins. With players like De Laet, Petrucci, Morrison etc it is too soon to say. None of those players are midfielders. So I think it will always be a problem area for us unless Fergie gets his check book out!
I’d also make the point that the way we use Rooney he is not consistently world class for us.
Basically with Ronaldo gone the only area of our team that is world class is our defence. And that is why we will struggle next season.
August 11th, 2009 at 0:39
@colver:
David fucking Silva.
Fergie. Buy now, before he fucks off to Scouselandia.
August 11th, 2009 at 0:40
@Nino: I am finding it extremely difficult while reading your posts to understand WTF you support Man United at all Nino. Could you please enlighten me Bro?
,
August 11th, 2009 at 0:43
@Cyclops-Red: Those very same scouselanders, the poo, are after Ryan Shawcross, one of Man Uniteds very good hard tackling defenders, sold on to Stoke
.
August 11th, 2009 at 0:54
@Craig Mc:
(to really, totally, absolutely fuck things up)
In Rafa we trust
August 11th, 2009 at 1:33
@colver: I agree with most of that, mate, although all this chatter about world class players is over-rated. The key for United is to replace the goal scoring of Ronaldo!!
My feeling is that we cannot control the CMF in games against decent competition and so regardless of our #9 or #10, they are either isolated too deep or they have to come back retrieve the ball at the halfway line.
Carrick cannot play in a 4 man MF without the help of an enforcing DMF’er and Anderson is so erratic he cannot be trusted not to give the ball away in his own half!! It’s not a pretty picture, is it??
If SAF remains stubborn to his thrifty ways, our best hope is Hargo coming back to bail us out, but honestly, that is a real long shot!!
August 11th, 2009 at 4:44
@Craig Mc: Just because ninos position on certain players differs from you, it doesn’t give you the right to question his fanhood.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:20
This is the best Season preview article I’ve read.
August 11th, 2009 at 5:34
Does anyone else see a comparison between the current situation with Ben Foster and what happened with Tim Howard? Tim was a young keeper who never got a good run in the side (45 appearances from 2003-2007.) He was just coming into his own when we loaned him out, signed EVDS, and eventually sold him to Everton. Now he is arguably on of the top keepers in the EPL. I’m not saying I wish we had kept him instead of signing EVDS, nor am I saying that his situation is a direct corrolary to Foster’s. I am simply wondering if perhaps we are all being hypercrtical of Foster. I remember the vitriol spewed towards Howard during his time. He certainly made mistakes. However, he was a young keeper just breaking into the side. Great keepers take time to develop, and require a stretch of games during which they can get comfortable with the defense. This is especially true of younger keepers. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing Foster in a run of games. Hopefully, whatever Capello and SAF see in him becomes apparent to the rest of us. For the time being, I think we should reserve our judgement on a 26, let me repeat, 26 year old keeper stepping into the huge shadow of EVDS and playing under the microscope that comes with donning the gloves for Manchester United.
August 11th, 2009 at 7:38
@Johnsom33: Johnsom what you on about mate – Nino and I are always jesting with each other. Didn’t you notice the wink emoticon? Don’t try and stir something up that doesn’t exist mate – certainly not in my heart anyway.
August 11th, 2009 at 7:41
Errrr Johnsom sorry mate – I meant the smilie emoticons!
August 11th, 2009 at 7:44
@Cyclops-Red:
August 11th, 2009 at 7:46
@Redrich: Aaaah Red Rich that CM eh? I wish like you, SAF would get it sorted. He obviously sees it different to us though!
August 11th, 2009 at 8:01
My world Eleven:
Casillas
Maicon Ferdinand S.Ramos D.Alves
Ronaldo Essien Xavi Kaka
Ibrahimovich D.Villa
August 11th, 2009 at 8:43
Screw Football for a moment guys!
9A’s in my GCSE!
I am so feckin Happy!
August 11th, 2009 at 9:24
@Craig Mc: It is the only real area of the side that concerns me, but I havge been banging on about it all summer!!
Can’t wait until Sunday, two months without my OT fix is far, far too long bring it on!
August 11th, 2009 at 9:25
Congrats DRD – great work! Go celebrate!
This whole world-class argument is a waste of time, imo. World class players are hard to define, don’t guarantee you success and often unbalance a team. There have been countless examples of ‘lesser’ squads on paper having more success, due to work ethic and team chemistry, which are hard things to instill in the most talented players.
I think we have the third strongest starting XI in the premiership (maybe 2nd, haven’t obviously seen how Aquilani will do at Pool), and the 5th strongest in the world. I believe our second XI is probably the strongest second XI in the world (after Real offload the Dutch national side).
Players like Fletcher and Carrick are not and will never be considered the best in the world at what they do. But they’re also the central midfield partnership that won us the premiership last year. Because our team isn’t built around the centre of midfield. They are functional, and part of a larger puzzle. Unlike Barca and Chelsea, whose main strengths are that area of the pitch.
Anyway, just think it’s all a bit pointless. Porto, Monaco hell even Leeds have all done well in the CL, without the world class talent of teams they knock out. It’s much more important to have balance, variety and chemistry. Oh and luck, that’s good too
August 11th, 2009 at 9:26
@Merlinus: I take it that World eleven is a joke team right? Ibrahimovic, Ramos and Alves at left back??
August 11th, 2009 at 9:27
Reading Nino’s comments i see a guy who’s arguments about united players don’t hold any water and so he changes goal posts, first says that Rio isn’t world class then realises he can’t come up with any justification so changes stance and says he’s world class but old, he then realizes he is conceding too much and so he wont agree that his earlier statement on vidic was wrong but not wanting to loose tries to come up with flimsy and weak reasons why vidic isn’t world class. He gives a definition of world class that he himself can’t support unless he includes some united players. I believe there AT LEAST five good players on each position in the world, not 1 or 2 but 5. while our center midfield players don’t make the cut because the world is saturated with world class midfielders, each and every one of our other players in other departments easily make it.
August 11th, 2009 at 9:36
@Stephen: Its just you who doesn’t appreciate class mate.. Sergio Ramos is a monster of a defender.. His abilities are an exact compliment to ferdinand’s… Alves plays as a left back for brazil and does really well, apart from the santos kid, that is..
No matter what you say ibrahimovich is a pure class act! – Do you think barcelona are fools, paying 40 mil + their ‘leading’ goal scorer for him. Ibra and villa naturally compliment each other.. Its a team with some sense atleast..
August 11th, 2009 at 9:46
@Merlinus: First of all, where the fuck is Messi?!
Then Zlatan>Torres? Ramos>Vidic? And sorry to say, but Alves sucks! He is not a defender, even Rafael is better than him at that! He is a winger transformer into a defender, which is the weak side of Barca. Isnt good in the air, is caught way to many times going forward and he is as selfish as a top class striker. Albidal, Lahm and even Evra are better than him… Oh well, I guess its your opinion! 
But if you had played that team agaisnt my team you would have lost… 
August 11th, 2009 at 9:54
@Footy4Eddy: Name your team… And Messi will be neutralised by essien or lassana diarra for that matter.. He’s not strong enough to break into the squad i named, only position for him is kaka’s there, and kaka has lethal pace – a lot more than messi and better vision..
Also as a manager, if i want to attack, I shall take out the more controlled xavi and throw in the devil Anderson
You’ll see some action then 
.. Hey there, i stand by what i said:>
Zlatan>Villa>Owen>Torres
Ramos>Ferdinand>Cordoba>Vidic
August 11th, 2009 at 9:58
Ricky Kaka is the “fifa SHIFT key”
.. I love him 
August 11th, 2009 at 10:09
@Merlinus: Okey, my team:
Casillas
Maicon Rio Vidic Albidal
Ronaldo Essien Iniesta Messi
Torres Rooney
Your Essien will have more than enough troubel containing Iniesta, so Messi is free to run agaisnt Alves(who cant tackle) and Ronaldo(who cant tackle). Ronaldo can do everything, and my Maicon is impossible to get by. Ive trained him myself!
Rio and Vidic compliment eachother perfectly, pace and power, class and tough. Another partnership that compliment eachother is Torres and Roonye, one hard worker and creater, one finisher full of magic in his feet.
Have you got FIFA 09 mate?
August 11th, 2009 at 10:25
Predictably Foster plays ONE game and picks up an injury and pulls out of the England squad. That is another concern I have with Foster. He is a bit injury prone and when he is injured who are we going to play? No keeper worth his salt is going to be a reserve keeper so we’ll be stuck with PIG.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:31
@Merlinus: I do appreciate class mate thanks for the insult which was not needed, Ramos overrated, Ibrahimovic overrated, simple
No Messi which is laughable quite frankly, no Torres, no Vidic.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:32
@Merlinus: Your defence is shit, no offence.
And really, ramos over vidic?
August 11th, 2009 at 10:33
@spizzy: Spizzy mate…opinions differ and at least I was man enough to admit I was wrong about Rio. Vidic and Rooney I refuse to budge on….I will continue to believe that they are on the verge of world-class but not quite there. I understand why many people think Vidic is world-class, but I have also underlined my reason why I do not think he is quite there yet: primarily because he messed up in the two biggest games last season. The Liverpool game you could maybe excuse as a one-off, which I did at the time, but the 2009 CL final, the biggest game of all, where all the big superstars came out to play and he was exposed once again has made me doubt his credentials as a true world class player.
I have given at least three or four definitions (including a dictionary definition) of what I deem to be ‘world-class’ if you scroll up earlier on this thread- one of them being a player who turns it on when it matters the most. It’s all well and good keeping clean sheets against Hull and Everton but like I said, in the biggest games of all, Vidic has disappointed me. True world class players rise to the occasion (I cannot emphasise that enough!!), and Rooney has also disappointed me in the very biggest games, like Milan at San Siro in 2007, Barcelona in 2008 at Nou Camp and 2009 in Rome, and even in the 2008 CL Final I thought his performance after the first 35 minutes was nothing to write home about. I do not think I have ever seen a truly virtuoso performance from Rooney against a very big team (like Ronaldo destroyed Arsenal) but he is due one soon. So sorry for being so stubborn but until they both come up with the goods in titanic tussles I won’t change my stance on these players
August 11th, 2009 at 10:34
@Darth Red Diablo: Congratulations mate! Well done!!
August 11th, 2009 at 10:42
@Beachryan: True this argument is a waste of time as different people have different definitions of world-class. Let’s just finish it here because nobody is getting anywhere with this debate, especially me, and there’s no right and no wrong answer here; its all open for interpretation
August 11th, 2009 at 10:43
@colver: Its just a knock. I dont think its serious.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:46
@Merlinus: Ibrahimovic is a very, very good player in Serie A but he has never convinced in the Champions League, but then again neither has his old team Inter. Let’s see how he fares this year playing for the defending champions.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:48
@Nino: Okey….
Vidic, 2008/09. Best performance= Chelsea at home. Some of his better games were also Porto away, Arsenal away(CL), Inter at home and Arsenal at home the day we won the Premier League. He made to gaffs during the whole season, only two(!) and that was against Barca and Liverpool. Everybody has the bad odd game, and Ronaldo has also been shit various times when facing big teams.
Rooney, best performance 2008/09= Spurs at home. Now this may not look as the most formidable opponent, but we were losing 2-0 at our own ground at half time. But up pops Rooney, scores 2 goals and gets 2 assists, plus the pass to Carrick which won us a penalty. Then he was exellent in both games against Arsenal, at home to Porto, home to Chelsea, got a brilliant assist against Inter, if you can think back two years ago he was what we called a “big game” player. He still is, so in that sense he is world class…
You cant exactly say the world class players are the ones who can change a game in a flash. In that sense Anderson is a world class player, Berbatov is a world class player, Tevez is a world class player, and Fletcher is a world class player. That doesnt do it for me, its not only about in which games you do it, but how often you can come up with a bit of magic. Rooney has done that very often, and until Ronaldo became THE player of our team Rooney was our vital man. He came up with the goods when need. Goal against Arsenal ruined their unbeaten record, his brace against Pompey put us in 2nd place that times, he scored THAT goal against Newcastle which ensured our comeback in the second half, he won the Carling Cup almost singlehandedly, he opened the scoring against Arsenal in 2006 which ensured our second place finish, winner against Sheffield Untied to win us the League, goal in Roma, and a brace with a winner against Milan in 2007. So in that respect, he is a world class player! Whether you like it or not, he is.
My words are the law, you see!
August 11th, 2009 at 10:50
@Nino: Zlatan is shit mate, most overrated player in the world!
How Jose managed to make a deal like that is honestly really admireable, absolutely amazing and puts Barca in a bad light. Why would they need Zlatan when they had Etoo? Much better player, and one that wont ruin for Iniesta and Messi. Before Zlatan went to Barca I was sure they were gonna be challengers to the CL, but now Im not so sure anymore… 
August 11th, 2009 at 12:09
@Footy4Eddy: I have fifa09 on pc.. not the box..
August 11th, 2009 at 12:21
@Footy4Eddy: where is ando
August 11th, 2009 at 12:29
@Anthony Los: He is taking a dump on Fabregas…
August 11th, 2009 at 12:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRLMXD4Zos
OMG, EPIC!!!
August 11th, 2009 at 12:47
New Post please.. @R.R
August 11th, 2009 at 13:05
@Footy4Eddy: Ibrahimovic is the best hold-up player in the world right now, though that could change dependent on how he adapts to barcelona’s play and how much berbatov ups his game for us. Those two are miles ahead of anyone else who plays up front with their back to goal.
Ibrahimovic to barcelona is a strange one for me though, he holds onto the ball and slows it down a lot which doesn’t seem to suit barca’s style of play. Perhaps they can get him releasing the ball quicker and maintaining a high-tempo passing game. If they can he will be more than useful for them.
August 11th, 2009 at 13:06
@tevez: To be honest I think Drogba is better than Zlatan at holding the ball up… When he is diving that is!
August 11th, 2009 at 13:23
@Footy4Eddy: To be honest, i completely forgot about drogba lol. Fair enough, he is close to them but i still think ibra and berba are superior. They just have so much skill, it seems almost unfair to say drogba is as good or better.
August 11th, 2009 at 14:03
@johnsom33: Sorry bro Stevie Me is just a Big Fish in Small Pond. That’s why he has saved their ASS many times
August 11th, 2009 at 14:23
One player which nobody ever puts into a World eleven and as much as he is one on my least favorite players on this planet is Frank Lampard.
For a midfield player to guarantee 20 goals a season is incredible, last season he scored 20, the season before that 20, the one before that 21 ect is a complete tosser but you cannot take away the goals from midfield a position where we now completly lack any goal threat at all, and that could cost us next season I am afriad if the forwards don’t set the World alight.
August 11th, 2009 at 16:06
@Stephen: Goals are all he’s got. He is a midfield workhorse with a goalscoring edge. Don’t get me wrong, scoring 20 goals from midfield every season is brilliant and is definitely an asset, but gerrard and xavi are well out of his league and players like fabregas and sneijder are also a class above him.
August 11th, 2009 at 16:09
@tevez: I agree mate, but you cannot take away his goals, his all round play is very average but 100 goals in 5 seasons is incredible and an asset to any side considering our midfield of Scholes, Anderson, Fletcher, Carrick and Giggs only scored 15 last season, but he is a cunt no doubt.
August 11th, 2009 at 16:33
@tevez: Give me Arshavin any day
.
Hey-Ho Ronnie has flu – ??? Swine flu. Well if you go and put your snout in the pigs trough, what do you expect?
. Aaaah Ronnie you miss the cold, clean Manc air eh? Makes the hairs on your chest stand up, and so bloody cold and robust, that the germs all hibernate to warmer climates 
.
August 11th, 2009 at 16:56
I hope chelsea stick with ancelotti’s formation because i don’t think it suits the players he’s got if he’s going to keep playing lampard in the advanced position and essien inside right. Lampard would be more effective starting deeper on either side of the diamond and although essien is fine on the right there is a holding position available in that set-up which he is made for. They also do not have a silky player to play in the hole, unless they use deco…
Our midfield suits that diamond more than theirs.
August 11th, 2009 at 17:06
@Craig Mc: My apologies then, sorry about that.
August 11th, 2009 at 17:13
@I_Bleed_Red: While I agree that Tim Howard didnt get a fair shake at United, I disagree in your comparison to Foster. Howard was miles better than foster, The only difference between the two is that Foster Is English(Vastly over rated) and Howard is American(vsstly Under rated). There isnt a doubt in my mind that had Howard been english he never would have left.
Also correct me if im wrong, didnt Howard get PFA Keeper of the year?
August 11th, 2009 at 17:20
@tevez: When he is on song, Drogba is the beest striker in the world. That might be a stretch now because of his age, but 2-3 years ago he was. You can call him a diving cheat and a cunt all you want. But he is a son of a bitch to defend against. I remember the season when we took the title back from chelsea, Chelsea had become so 1 dimesional it was almost comical. It seemed the only way they could score would be to lump it up to drogba and let him go to work. he would be up top all alone, and he still got them within a shout of the title.
I know virtually all of you hate the man, but he has always been one fo my favorite players.
August 11th, 2009 at 17:32
Thank you guys…
DIABLO power!
August 11th, 2009 at 17:42
My mate is currently in Manc land for his trial with United.
Stay tuned…
August 11th, 2009 at 17:45
@johnsom33: No problems mate – its cool
.
August 11th, 2009 at 17:48
@tevez: Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhush mate, you trying to give our hated rivals coaching and positional tips. You should only do that IF and when you get paid a lot of money for your wisdom mate
August 11th, 2009 at 17:50
@Footy4Eddy: Wow if your mate is signed, you will get all the INSIDE information and goings on at OT. I wish him luck!
August 11th, 2009 at 17:55
@Craig Mc: I wish him luck as well, he is an amazing player and would fit perfectly into United. At first I was a little jelous of him(…
), but now I am just happy for the guy! He thoroughly deserves it for all his hard work, and he may become one of the worlds best players one day! He has abitions, and skill enough to do something about it. We may not be as close as I am with my other mates, but I know him and we have had some tough encounters in the past. 
And who knows? Maybe one day we will be in the same team again…
August 11th, 2009 at 18:08
@Footy4Eddy: What position does your mate play Eddi? What position is he trying for at OT?
August 11th, 2009 at 18:40
@johnsom33: Drogba is a battering ram who causes problems there is no doubt about that, but he is all brute strength and no skill. You play the game to your strengths so when you’ve got it, by all means use it, but i give more credit to players who have great technical ability or mental attributes, rather than just great physical aspects to their game. Ibrahimovic and berbatov are strong lads who use their bodies well, but they are supremely skillful players. They have much more quality than drogba.
August 11th, 2009 at 18:51
@Craig Mc: I’m trying to convince ancelotti to swap his midfield for our midfield because they suit his precious diamond formation better
August 11th, 2009 at 19:24
Drogba got found out last season, and scored as many league goals as Tevez. Not world class.
August 11th, 2009 at 19:30
@johnsom33: Oh Fergie the Scotsman prefers an Englishman over an American, you need to loose that chip off your shoulder
August 11th, 2009 at 19:47
@johnsom33: @tevez: @Traverse: I share the view of johnsom here (this is a first, if i’m not mistaken!).
Drogba, for all of his questionable other attributes, is (or was) world class, especially 2-3 years ago. I confirm there was a time when Chelsea were only relying on Drogba as a battering ram, and amazingly they seemed to fare well enough.
Also, while he’s very strong and physical, people tend to underrate the technical aspects of his game, which are far from crap. Its just that playing for the Chelseas thugs, he doesn’t really have the opportunity to showcase these skills in a positive light.
For instance, he has a very sweet volley shot, has (or had) a quite good touch of the ball – controlling the ball from mid-air, and rarely missed his one on ones.
Its not for nothing that we were linked with him before Kenyon decided to swoop for all of United’s potential transfer targets.
But he’s still a dick though.
August 11th, 2009 at 20:04
@tevez:
.
August 11th, 2009 at 20:24
@NicoQB: One good season makes him World Class does it? He has scored 33 goals in a season, but in five seasons in England and the most bar that was 16, many people think Berba was awful last season, overrated, lazy and should be sold with fifteen goals, and now that piece of shit is World class?
August 11th, 2009 at 20:37
@johnsom33: Excellent point on Howard being named to the PFA team of the year in 2004. I had completely forgetten about that fact.
I don’t agree with the statement that U.S. keepers are underrated. That certainly isn’t a feeling held by managers in England (Keller, Howard, Friedel, Hahnemann, Guzan) I think most people agree that the keeper position is the strongest the U.S. produces, owing to the dominance of hand-eye coordinated sports in the states.
As far as whether Foster is being given a bit of leeway due to his nationality, there may be some truth to that, but I see that a good thing. It is a source of pride that M.U.F.C. consistly produces top British talent. That is not meant to sound xenophobic.
August 11th, 2009 at 20:40
@Red Ranter: That Arsenal paragraph was just genious… Sheer genious!!!
August 11th, 2009 at 20:51
@NicoQB: The irony is the whole preview was written by an Arsenal fan. Even the Man City one was brilliant. Just a fantastic piece.
August 11th, 2009 at 20:59
@Stephen: I don’t think SAF shielded him as much as I expected. He was out and out critical of his effort on the 2nd Chelsea goal.
I do think he got a free pass here though, with most folks feeling sorry for him and all and a convenient blindness to at least half a dozen goofs.
SAF has a history of impatience with keepers and I would expect a swift move in the direction of PIG if he fucks up again!!
August 11th, 2009 at 21:00
@Stephen: Not one good season.
At least two.
And I’m rating the player so much according to his statistics, but more becauseof the fact that his presence in the line up makes Chelsea a much more difficult team to beat.
His first season also he was very underrated. He brings much much more to Chelsea’s play that just physical presence.
And one of the reasons Lampard scores so many goals is that Drogba plays the role of the decoy – in the sense that defenders just can’t ignore him.
At Marseille also he looked every bit the complete striker, not just the battering ram he is caricatured to be nowadays.
Look I’m not trying to defend the man, just tying too look at the footballer without any shade of tinted colored specs. In a less defensive team playing more football he could have been much closer in style to a Torres than a Niaill Quinn.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:08
@Red Ranter: Yea, brilliant article on the whole!
But I kinda missed the point/fun in the City paragraph though…
August 11th, 2009 at 21:11
@NicoQB: It’s just satire. Ribbing on Sparky’s arrogant claim recently on his being a top class player in his time etc etc, and seeing that he’s now facing the sack as his strikers miss sitters. Just a subtle bit of sarcasm there which I found delightful.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:13
@Craig Mc: In my team we dont exactly have a position. We have two or three…
I am left back, defensive midfield and right back. Ohi brotha is CAM, both wings and can play as striker. So he is versitile… Incredibly fast, strong as a ball, the tecnique of a young Ronaldo and… Well, lets just say he has everything needed for a footballer!
But he could really improve on lifting his head some times. 
August 11th, 2009 at 21:53
@NicoQB: What else he he? For me he is battering ram with an awful touch, attitude and is is classless and if it wasn’t for the over self confidence he would be no more than Emile Heskey.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:57
@Redrich: PIG is awful mate and regardless of what people think of Foster, who is a top keeper in my view, PIG is a liability and Fergie knows it.
August 11th, 2009 at 21:59
@Traverse: Drogba didn’t get found out, he just didn’t give a fuck. He is a known cancer, and he throws his toys out of the pram when he doesn’t get his way. But when hiddink got there he started to care again(also he had to improve his play for a new contract). His class is unquestioned but he is his own worst enemy and his attitude and character has seriously undermined his career.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:03
@Stephen: Im no fan of foster, but anyone suggesting pig is better than foster is having a laugh.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:14
@NicoQB: Also Lampard scored goals for West Ham, one season he netted 14 times in a season, I dislike Lampard but saying his goals are down to Drogba is simply not true.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:24
SAF does stick his neck out doesn’t he? Then he does NOT like to admit he was wrong. Scottish pride m’thinks. SAF told the whole world that Foster would be the England keeper in the next world cup and for years to come. Personally I do not see any signs of that myself. SAF however hates to lose face, and so he will make every kind of excuse to prove himself right, where his wrong proclamations are concerned. Some United fans think Ben will prove SAF right, but others believe SAF is so far off the mark on this one. Guess we will just have to see eh? Time will reveal all. All I care about is that Ben doesn’t cost us the PL, and in Europe this year, because SAF’s need to be right in his judgements. I think SAF is usually right on so many things, that it is hard for him if his prophecies on the odd occasion turn out to be major blunder
.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:30
I am not saying by the way that SAF’s proclamation on Bens future will turn out wrong, I just don’t know. I do not think that Ben is any more blunder prone than PIG, or that the goals he has conceded are always down to him either. As I mentioned before, our lads need to stop all the continuous bloody foolish and boring backpasses, that put our GK’s under so much pressure. We have nearly come unstuck so many times thru errant backpasses to our keepers
. Ban the backpass to GK’s, lets get back to playing football to get ourselves out of defence, MF etc.
August 11th, 2009 at 22:37
@Craig Mc: For him to be England’s number one he would need games, which is what people said about Tevez who was a striker and in that position a run of games simply is not as important as a keeper.
England are not furnished with top class goalkeepers at the moment, Green for me probably should start, but does not play Champions league football and is not a Capello favorite, Robinson has made more mistakes than “Calamity” James and Joe Hart is on loan to Birmingham, so if Foster gets games and his confidence for me he has the ability he will play.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:28
@Stephen: I hope so Stephen bro, and you know I agree with a run of games, because I felt that way with Nani, so I would be a hypocrite to say any different regarding Ben. Ben has to PROVE CONSISTENT though Stephen, because his performances are not consistent mate. Some times he is bloody brilliant, like against Derby, where he almost won us the game singlehandedly season before last. Then he has games not so brill. Like you say though, a good run in the first team is essential, before any of us can really judge his competency. He does pick up injuries though, he is unlucky there. I want him to succeed that’s for sure, but I guess we have to wait and watch
.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:42
@Stephen: It is especially important for a striker to get a run of games with regards to scoring goals. The vast majority of strikers need to play consistently in order to score consistently. If they are selected erratically then they struggle to get into a goalscoring rhythm. When they are scoring, their confidence soars, they play better and are likely to score more. If they then don’t play, it breaks their momentum and they struggle. Strikers benefit hugely, and moreso than players in other positions, from a prolonged run in a side.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:43
@Stephen: He is classless and has a horrible attitude, that much is a fact and we agree on.
But I think he’s far from being all attitude and no product and he’s certainly much more than just a Heskey. His shooting is infinietly better for one. And as a matter of fact he does have a rather good touch, if by touch you mean controlling the ball from mid-air and setting himself up.
And I’m not saying Lampard was never good to start with, far from it. What I’m saying is with the damage Drogba does in opposition defence, Lampard gets more shooting opportunities as a result of scuffled clearances and defender’s positioning.. Its no wonder he’s the all time record holder for deflected goals.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:53
Also, united can’t afford to give a run of games to a keeper who looks a liability. With a striker or winger you can allow more time for them to build form. A striker missing a chance or a winger losing the ball out wide in the opponents half is acceptable. A keeper missing a backpass or a cross is not and is so much more likely to negatively affect the result of the game. Consistency from foster is not something we can wait for.
August 11th, 2009 at 23:55
@tevez: No offence mate, but you should seriously consider changing your name…
August 11th, 2009 at 23:58
Drogba only works as a Donkey, and we all know that in the good old days they were very useful. In these modern days he is just looked on as a failiure.
August 12th, 2009 at 0:03
@Footy4Eddy: I am a delusional, stubborn little cunt, so the name is quite apt. It stays.
August 12th, 2009 at 0:03
I am fantastic. Itsh a facht! And dont anyboody say its a fucking disgrace! Because that lacks exeptional talent, youth and creativity. In the end its all bollocks! Because you know I am special, and even if their team may be better I would love it if we beat them! Luv it!!!
Eddy`s remix of famous(incredibly funny and stupid) comments made by other Premier League managers druing the years.
August 12th, 2009 at 0:04
@tevez:
You forgot to add ugly as hell and greedy.
August 12th, 2009 at 0:56
@Footy4Eddy: We dont all change our names like you do..
August 12th, 2009 at 1:29
@tevez:
August 12th, 2009 at 1:48
Drogba on his day is unplayable end of story. Yes his attitude is terrible but when he decides he wants to play he causes havoc. Not the most prolific striker in the world but he does much more for a team than score goals. For example I truly believe he would be the perfect foil for Rooney if his attitude wasn’t so terrible (obviously we’d never buy him but I wonder what would have happened if we’d bought Drogba instead of Chelsea).
Certainly not the most skillful strikers but I’d say when it comes to playing as a single striker up top Drogba is one of the best in the world and was a vital part of the 4-3-3 system that brought Mourinho so much success. There aren’t many strikers who can keep an entire defence busy.
Id agree though that he is past his best and has lost his desire. Last season he basically went to pieces after losing the 2008 CL final and obviously did not get on with Scholari. But Ancelotti seems to have a knack for breathing new life into old drogs (sorry terrible pun) and I think he’ll be dangerous for Chelsea this season.
tevez, you echo my sentiments precisely with regards to Foster. We do not have the luxury of time to allow Foster to develop consistency and confidence. We won a truckload of titles with Schmeichel behind the sticks. Same story with EVDS.
Howard and Barthez…considerably more experienced than Foster but even with those guys we didn’t win all that much because they just weren’t good enough.
No disrespect to Foster but we need a world class goalkeeper ready for next season. We don’t have 3-5 years spare for Foster to reach his best (which even then might not be good enough).
August 12th, 2009 at 9:14
@tevez: I agree but a keeper needs a run of games to get to know the back four he is playing with and for his confidence.
August 12th, 2009 at 9:50
This is for you Grognard,
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1131144_german_keeper_on_reds_radar
August 12th, 2009 at 12:48
@colver: Mate we need a world class stopper for this season, because United are already talking that our DEFENCE will again be the bulwark to win us the title. We have been leaking goals lately, and we appear to be caught out time after time with high crosses into the box causing panic, and at the far post with ball over the defence, when our full back often is not where he should be. Unless SAF is prepared to give Foster a season to prove whether he truly can be all SAF proclaims him to be, but accepting the possibility if he does, that we might lose that 4th PL crown he so desires! Also the great teams CONFIDENCE comes from winning games, and Ben Foster still is unproven for any length of time, and a few games lost, and we will have a confidence dip like you wouldn’t believe. So we have to decide, or SAF does, whether Ben Foster should get all the time needed to fulfil the potential SAF foresees, or accept any consequences. Who knows, Ben may come really good for us! We will be taking a chance though, and Even the most diehard Ben fans will surely know this!