Oct 18
United survive post international break jitters; go top.
I expected the Bolton match to be hard-fought, gritty, and all you could associate with a fixture played on the back of an international break. As the match started playing out, a little bit of revisionism struck and I actually felt we would walk it. But somehow, we contrived to make it harder for ourselves towards the end, and it ended as nervously as I first thought it would.
But the best part of yesterday actually happened elsewhere. First, Aston Villa stunned Chelsea — and stunned is a justifiable term, considering the ordinary season Villa are having — and then a kid, who I shall call “Balloon Boy II” struck at the Stadium of Light. [Those unaware of the Balloon Boy reference, you should take a look at this incident that happened 2 days ago.] I know it was really a beach ball and not a balloon, but play along, eh.
A Liverpool fan punches one of those balls on to the pitch, ‘pool defenders fail to clear it away and DBTheTruth scores a goal with a wicked deflection off the beach ball. You just can’t make such shit up.
Shit you can make up, is through photoshop and sure enough, you have some brilliant minds at work creating memes root-causing the fiasco — one of them, this one: [both images, via RoM]
But enough schadenfreude for now.
The Good:
1. Aside from the happenings at Villa Park or the Stadium of Light, we had a pretty good first half.
2. Berbatov and Owen linked up quite well. Owen’s awareness and movement continues to be top notch. His finishing let him down however. Berbatov, fresh off his hat-trick for Bulgaria was excellent as provider yet, luck deserted him when it came to his finishing.
3. Valencia had a good game; was strong and direct, and topped it off with his debut goal.
4. Ryan Giggs. Veteran, continues to turn the clock back at will. Manages to keep Nani out. Put this on repeat. Every season.
5. Full backs overlapping on both flanks led to both our goals. Evra continues to be excellent for us, while Neville tried to go forward whenever he could.
6. EVDS returns to the starting lineup. He had an uneventful game for the most part. Can’t really say anything else other than good to see him back.
7. Top of the league! Top of the league! Top of the league!
The Bad:
1. Some nervousness, some poor passing in the second half, allowed United to cede initiative and help Bolton in with a sniff.
2. Neville. He was at fault for the Bolton goal. A weak clearance, if one could call that a clearance, led to the goal.
3. Ponderous defending towards the end showed some cracks that has crept into our back four lately hasn’t entirely been resolved. If Gary Cahill had headed anywhere else we would be singing a different song. But we could be playing the if game all day if we wanted to.
*
The good thing is we can hopefully regroup, take stock, get past the midweek Champions League game against CSKA Moscow, sans Rooney, and well… keep marching on which is what we are supposed to be doing anyway.
Before I end this I shall leave you with a quote from Darren Bent made this morning on his twitter page:
“Morning peeps, I might go to the beach today lol ha ha”
Indeed. Who else is up for a game of beach football?
Related items from Red Rants:
- Some Site News
- International roundup and a link fest
- FA shafts Ferguson
- Man Utd 2-0 Blackburn: FT
- The International Break Will Help United Significantly
Tags: Match Reports
Opti (541)
Stephen (485)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (348)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
well lots of people predicted pool or chelsik for title..but team to watch out for is arsenal..they seem to be clicking well and have some real quality in the squad..
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Rooney, Vidic and GIGGS up for Ballon d’Or. Messi’ll probably win it.
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@Traverse: But Vida deserves it.. but poor vida can’t win because probably they will give it to terry if a defender was to be choosen…
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@adc: Next week if we can beat pool then this season is literally over for them… and thats a fact
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good post… Nev really looks good there…. Agent XXX
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The COPS need to take care of that kid from KOPS …
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Berbatov will be our main man this season. We just need someone to finsh of the chances he makes for us. Im confident about this season more then i was at the beginning. Yesterday, we have a good game overall, more of the same type of play please.
In other news, a very promising report i guess, on tom cleverly: http://www.footballfancast.com/blog/manchester-united/a-united-gem-unearthed-and-a-real-superstar-making/17580?
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Owen and berba is a much better duo than rooney and berba. They work much better because owen is less likely to wander. I was impressed with his passing aswell.
That said I was fucking enraged by Welbeck at the end, cant he run with the ball? We wee under pressure and he just gave it away. I have hope from him but that piece of play was a joke. Nev should have dealt with that cross easily but he had a great game apart from that. He attacked well.
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Poor Berbatov. Quite often reminds me of a great painter without his canvas. The bunch around him are truly pathetic and while he wanders around OT looking like Picasso the others are still trying to master coloring books with a set of crayons.
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Well, Ive worked my ass off these last few weeks to get this video done!
My first real FIFA 10 video, dedicated to, the one and only, ERIC CANTONA! 
Check it out, I think you will enjoy it…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHXIPJ83t2U
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@Dan: Cleverley should be our back up left winger next season.
I’m still not convinced by Welbeck as a LW, and Obertan should be RW back up.
Tosic should be loaned out.
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@Footy4Eddy: Waaa Heeeyy!!!
I just love the ending of the video!
That goal! And that celebration!
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@Footy4Eddy: Nicely done mate. Don’t you wish the game had a true editing tool that would allow you to add the older kits, collar as well as the unibrow?
Some great skills on display by you.
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@NicoQB:
Told you I worked my ass off! 
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@Grognard: Thanks mate, just love the virtual pro feature!
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Where the Hell is everybody? This site has gone quiet for the past few weeks. International break is over folks. Time to come to Red Rants and rant.
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T@Grognard: there just isn’t much to talk about right now. We are top of the league right now, yet we haven’t been entirely convincing this year.
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@Taehr: owen is a more disciplined striker and he even held up the ball a bit..but you can see his lack of match sharpness,he reacts slower to the layoffs and through balls but he creats those chances..i think couple of matches under his belt will only make him better..rooney should learn from his positioning skills…
Its common place everywhere to state that we are no reaching our potential or playing poor..aside from the 06-07 and some parts of 07-08 season we weren’t exactly all dominating…i think the EPL teams adapt better to deal with top tier teams than say la liga do..the points gap isn’t as huge as used to be and we still continue to dominate in Europe
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@Grognard: Pretty boring game, and we just made a huge meal out of a simple snack (Bolton). I can’t really say much more other than what has already be said about this team. It’s just barely good enough to achieve good/moderate results but not “extravagant” enough to make us feel good all over.
To me it’s deja vu from 30 odd years ago, when I felt we were so invincible that nothing could turn my head from the greatness of our the recent past.
History has a way of making it’s encore!!
Bottom line for me, not enough good players!!
PS.
Had to help my daughter move apartments this WE, so no input from me because.
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@RMJ: Owen is toward the end of his career, and that’s why we picked him up for nothing!!
Say what you will about him, but he is not the future for this team!!
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@NicoQB: Wellbeck was absolutely awful in his cameo on Saturday!!
If I was Ole, I’d put him squarely on the bench and tie him there until he shows some spark of interest in playing football competitively!!
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@Grognard: Well then Berbatov should see this as the pure “torture” that validates his “artistry”.
I will say that his contribution this season is a 500% improvement on the last, and without it, we would not be at the top of our league! But his role is to score and scoring is not what he’s doing!!
I think I want him to completely loose it – throw his paint around, stick his brush where it doesn’t belong, and make a canvass that is oblique and not square!!
He just needs to stop being in awe of Manchester United and start leading Manchester United!!!
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@NicoQB: Welbeck isnt a winger, and it sickens me how misinformed people think he is. He is a striker, first and foremost. You wouldnt play owen on the wing, or berba, so why welbeck.
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@Grognard: I agree, i think ronny was holding him back last year, but now hes finally enjoying his time here. He actually looks like scoring, now.
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Berba for me is like nani to craig and anderson to eddy.But I’m glad his performances mean I don’t have to always defend him. But i’m sure in a few weeks people will be on his case again, talking about his lack of goal. If the rest of the mediocre team mates surrounding him converted half of the brilliant chances he provides for the he’d be head and shoulders above everyone in the premiership on the assists board. I just wish owen was more clinical on saturday, he’d have had a hatrick thanks to berba’s assists.
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Ronaldo was and is still a good player and good players dont hold other good players back,they improve them.First he was holding rooney back,then,berba,why cant we live with the fact that it was up to them to up their games to his level,or should he drop his game to their level?
On to the saturday game,we just showed that we like riding on luck however simple a game is.The way we dominated it in the first half,we should have killed it off instead we waited for bolton to score and things could have gone the other way.
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@Redrich: So true mate, so true. And yet so many seem to be happy an content because we are in first. I have to say the poor form of Chelsea and Liverpool has surprised me so far and you never know which Arsenal is going to show up from week to week. These three teams have done their best to keep us in this thing. Sure we have only dropped four points but certainly others must see what you and I see?
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@Redrich: The problem is Fergie has taken his brushes and pallet away. He has the ability to score but is asked to play to high and then when he is in the box, the service to him is either terrible or non existent. Right now his beautiful art is in his head or scribbled on sand……or turf.
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@Redrich: Also, Berbatov is a player who thinks outside the box while most of our players are firmly entrenched in the box and have no way of getting out as Fergie has stapled the box shut.
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@Grognard: Usually im with you on most things but not this weekend.On a weekend where even barca dropped points, you seem to come out lashing at united. It’s like you expect them to be super human. Some of the football we played on saturday was very very good. The combination in the mid field and the fast accurate passes were a joy to watch.Berba my man was sublime in every way and if owen had just scored one of those beautiful lay offs we would have had a goal of the month right there.
Yes we crumbled after bolton scored but i think that has alot to do with the fact that the boys knew chelsea had lost and knew if they won they would go top, so they were very anxious and made silly mistakes.Yes they played like a third league team full of crippled old men for those 20 minutes but they got the result. Before that moment we had the game on its throat and played very well, we should have been 5-0 ahead if it wasn’t for jaskalainnen(hope the spelling is correct). Even valencia played very well on that game or did that escape you?
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@Redrich: I think after rooney publicy declaired himself united’s new marksman, he stole the limelight and prevented a process whereby the new leader would be chosen on merit and based on performance. we all focussed our eyes on him, and truth be told, for a while he seemed capable of leading united and making us forget ronaldo. He sprung fastest of the blocks at the start of the season and scored a number of goals and thus we all fell for that hoax and believed rooney would be united’s main man.Time has however dispelled that belief and I now believe berba showed be the marksman for the team. Rooney with all his attributes has been very irritating to watch and has lost that form he had at the start of the season. Berba has however been very consistent and his absence from the pitch is very telling. But I dont envision soft spoken berba coming out and challenging for the marksman position with the ruggish and brutish rooney, so you will have to forget that little dream.
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Its only a matter of time till Shitty put in a 30 million pound bid for the beachball, we should beat them to it
On a serious note, the game was a game of two halves – a brilliant first followed by a dead second. Berba is staring to impress me, he really was our main man. A pity Owen couldnt finish the chances. Red Nev was totally at fault for the goal, and should have been taken off long before that. Why does fergie wait till the 80th minute to make changes, when everyone watching the game could see we were runnign out of steam? And also, why is Welbeck beiing preferred over Kiko? I really expected Kiko to be given a run out yesterday
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@Redrich- What do you think is the reason why Berba is not scoring for us? Seeing that he seems to bang them in for Bulgaria and has always. And seeing that his record with every other team he has played for shows that he is actually 1st and foremost a goalscorer. I think a lot of ppl will never never ever criticise our manager for whatever reason. He clearly is responsible for Berba not scoring regularly. I’m shocked that he says he now knows exactly how to play him and yet in many games you see him playing between midfield and attack. He is a striker 1st and foremost. He is just a creative striker. Like a more technically advanced , more inventive albeit slower version of Ibrahimovic. I only started watching him playing for Spurs but even there he was a goal getter. Great goals, great assists and great art. Beautiful football at it’s pinnacle. Trust me by his standards, he is very poor. Not because he chooses to but because he is being forced to be or maybe not being allowed to be his best. I love Rooney(my fav player) but we should not centre the team around him yet. Dimitar Berbatov(my 2nd fav player) should be our go to guy. They did that at Spurs and they got success by their standards. Keane still shined and benefitted heavily. If he becomes the main man then the whole team will be looking for him and we won’t have any issues of him being in great positions and not being serviced. In the same way that Ronaldo was the main man, DB9 should be the best man of our team. Ppl say him and Rooney don’t work well but I see that combo being the best as there are so many similarities in the way Dark Knight Wayne and Robbie Keane play. But the system has to be played right for them to work. Stop limiting Berba to be assist king. He is a goalscorer capable of 25-30 a season if played right. Trust me. Oh and I don’t mean you (Redrich) necessarily
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@donnibrasco- I think he actually held back a lot of players while he was here. It’s not about raising ur standards to match his but more to do with everyone else having to play other roles to allow him to be the focus. It was a technical issue by the coaching staff. If a winger becomes the focus of finishing off our attacks then the strikers will be nullified. Rooney was switched to the left and Berbatov was made to roam in no man’s land in order to allow Ronaldo to take centrestage. So it wasn’t Ronaldo’s fault but he unintentionally perhaps was actually hindering others from playing their game. This season there has been a bit of a return to normalcy though the tactics seem to still have major flaws in their details like actual positioning and placing of responsibility. While I’m there I might as well point to something I’ve noticed. In the latest Anderson interview, he says he should score more goals. But he also indicated that it’s much more difficult as a midfielder the way the team is playing and given the set up and tactics. I’ve always felt the same but he merely confirmed it. Why? Well it’s simple. The midfielders are being held back by the tactics. For instance, Berbatov is still playing deep right in front of the midfield. That means the midfielders are being forced deeper and so they can’t get forward that much. This points to very cautious tactics. We should take the risk because that’s who we are. Play Berba a notch further up, allow Anderson to sweep thru the middle and Fletcher to cover the spaces in midfield. It’s risky but it’s attacking football. If we have an extra man in and around the box then this will give the wingers a bit more joy in supplying because they have a lot more alternatives. Barca always have at least 3 in and around the box when attacking, with Messi, Ibrahimovic and Henry and at times together with either Iniesta or Xavi. Madrid are crazier with Benzema, Raul, Kaka and Ronaldo attacking the box frequently. Arsenal also do that with van Persie, Eduardo, Arshavin and Fabregas. The same goes for Chelsea. Only United(only Rooney inside the area and Berbatov on the edge) and Liverpool(only Torres and Gerrard) don’t do that and that’s not a good thing for ambitious teams.
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@Jay wire: Ronaldo did not hold anyone back i repeat.If you look at the seasons we had him,he only decided we win matches when others either had poor finishing,or the manager chose to play his favorites just because he knew ronaldo would win the match.It is no surprise people are doubting players like carrick and of recent rooney. ronaldo just covered every weakness we had.
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That’s a ridiculous thing to say. He just covered every weakness we had. No. Even van Nistelrooy’s scoring dropped when we got Ronaldo. He is incredibly selfish. A lot of times last season either Rooney or Berba or someone else would be in great positions but Ronaldo would just shoot. Admittedly he became very prolific but then again he took every single freekick within 135 miles of goal and would blast the ball 80 percent of the times into the wall and 10 percent to the spectators and the rest would go in. All penalties. And it is a fact that others had to play out of position to accommodate him. Imagine if some of those freekicks were taken by Ryan. How many goals from freekicks have we already scored this season whether directly or through crossing. I’m pretty sure last season no freekick was scored indirectly. Yes he hindered other players. This season Berbatov is getting more involved in our attacks and something close to the real DB9 is being showcased. Even Rooney is getting more advanced and all his goals so far have been in the box. Thanks Ronaldo but goodbye. Many will miss you. Me? Never
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@Jay wire: What’s ridiculous is you trying to find faults with the greatest player to have played for us over the past decade. If you want to pick holes you can do so with everyone. But one mustn’t lose sight of the bigger picture — that we were fantastic in the season we won the league and the champions league and we were fantastic the year before that. Our attacking was fabulous, and you seemed to forget how well Tevez and Rooney combined during the peak times.
It’s just his last season where his selfishness seemed to hurt us, if you can even say that. I guess there’s no pleasing some people…
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@spizzy: Do I expect them to be super human? NO, and that’s the problem. They have done nothing to try to attain that standard. You seeming surprised that even Barca dropped points this weekend sums up exactly what I am shooting for. I want a team that is so awesome, that when they drop points, it’s a big surprise and even a shock.
I want a team that when they play at home against a sad sack bunch like Bolton, that they should win comfortably and with style and domination. Why am I being so unreasonable? Because for twenty years Sir Alex Ferguson has spoon fed me in a way that has spoilt me and I frankly want more and demand more because I know and remember what it feels like to be dominating and awesome. This present club is nowhere in the same league as Barcelona when it comes to overall talent and ability and maybe that’s the point. We are being forced to settle for a second hand product from a club that has not delivered a second hand product to us since before Fergie’s tenure began. Frankly, as fans we have been dining on Filet Mignon and King Crab for twenty years and now we are being forced to settle for pollock and stewing beef.
I demand more because I have seen how United is capable of playing and how they should play, and right now I am not seeing anything close to it. It’s a case of the players not playing with full focus and commitment, the manager using squad selections and tactics that are far less than inspiring and owners who have placed Fergie and the club in a financial straitjacket by limiting the amount of money available for player purchases.
So unlike the many wallflowers who just sit back and take this crap in like it’s all fine, I choose to vent my displeasure because I want…….NO I demand perfection from my team. They will never attain perfection but they can at least try harder from the boys on the pitch to the owners in the boardroom. And that’s what bugs me more than anything, they aren’t trying very hard, but they love to increase prices and take our money.
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@Vivek: All I kniow is the beach ball has a finer touch and aim than all our forwards.
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@donibrasco: Very well said. Ronaldo was the greatest insurance policy any club has ever had. He covered up the ordinary ability of many on this club with his superlative play and now we are being outed for the lackluster bunch that we are. And still amazingly we are in first place. That one I still cannot wrap my head around. But it is early and I do not and will not believe this team is good enough to win this league. But then again, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal don’t seem to interested in taking the league by the collar and demanding ownership either. The big four have lost some key players and have lost some of the spark of greatness that they possessed in previous years. The Madrid’s and Barca’s have purged us of some of the best players in the EPL and Man City has gone a long way in making the big four weaker by signing many players from those teams.
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@Jay wire: He did what a go to guy does mate, he scored. He knew the responsibility was on him to score goals for us and so he did that. Now you can call that selfish but I would call that doing one’s job. It’s only selfish if the ball isn’t going in the the net. Like Julius Caesar once said, “It’s only hubris if I lose”. Ronaldo had a duty to do and he performed in an awesome manner. The fact the rest of the team was not good enough around him is not his fault. Look how much better they are now without him here. Even if they are in first, they frankly SUCK. No finishing, and no direct positive forcefulness near our goal. No way can you ever throw the blame on this team’s inadequacies on Ronaldo. Not when those inadequacies are still prevalent and as obvious as ever.
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@Jay wire: SAF in culpable on this account – but indirectly!!
Berbatov’s scoring problems are a product of very poor suitability within our strike force. The Rooney/Berbatov combo just doesn’t work, does it? – And Owen, at this stage of his career, is only suitable as a third striker or as a sub. The backups of Wellbeck and Macheda or either not ready for prime-time or will never be ready.(in Wellbeck, its my opinion that the latter is more likely)
TBH, I think the whole concept of how and with who we attack our opposition needs to be scraped and re-thought out from scratch??
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@Red Ranter-1st of all I wasn’t trying to find faults, those were actual faults. It was a fact that players had to be shifted around because of him and had you bothered with assessing from where I was coming from you would have seen that the person I laid blame on was the manager. I even said it wasn’t necessarily his intention to hinder others. But I was responding to Donnibrasco who argued that Ronaldo didn’t hinder anyone. And that’s where I was coming from. Clearly I’m not the biggest Ronaldo fan but I wasn’t really blaming him for that. It was clearly management’s decision that he should try out anything he wanted on the pitch. It helped develop his game but it also hindered others who had to endure his selfishness and were often criticised for failing to score.
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@Jay wire: I did read your comment and I know where you are coming from. I saw that you laid blame on the manager, and I disagree on that count (except, perhaps, last season).
Ferguson did what any good manager does: identify the team’s strengths and build it around its strengths. Ronaldo was our strength and he built it around him. [Note: I am making my argument disregarding last season, I'll explain why at the end of this.]
Rooney, contrary to your belief actually flourished with Ronaldo. Ronaldo and Rooney needed each other in the counter. You can see how Rooney struggles this season when he doesn’t find anyone else of comparable pace with the telepathic understanding he shared with Ronaldo. Ronaldo might have overshadowed Rooney because he is obviously a far better player than Rooney. He can head the ball better than Rooney, he can beat players better than Rooney, he can accelerate better than Rooney, and crucially he can finish better than Rooney.
You could say Rooney was sacrificed out wide etc., but he always showed progressive improvement in goal scoring every season, if you look up the stats. Also, Rooney picked up some injury or the other every season, whilst Ronaldo didn’t. And finally, both Tevez and Rooney were guilty of not finding the right balance between doing the defensive duties and preserving their energies in the offensive end. I am not saying they shouldn’t have shirked their defensive job, but they were guilty of overdoing it. And you can’t blame that on the manager.
I love Rooney, but we must stop making excuses for him. And Tevez, whilst giving 100% on the pitch, got too bogged down with defensive duties — and his first touches were horrendous. And I hope you aren’t in the Rooney>Ronaldo group. (Ronaldo infuriates me with his antics but that claim is laughable.)
What I will concede is this: Ronaldo’s attitude last season was shocking. His pouting was intolerable, and it seemed like he didn’t want to be around anymore. Ferguson was fighting a losing battle, and it’s quite possible he felt indulging him at the cost of others will keep him happy. It didn’t work in the sense that it became painfully obvious that our attack revolved around “give the ball to Ronaldo” at every opportunity.
Yet, it didn’t stop our system from being successful as the Premiership title showed, but that’s besides the point of this argument which is really about Ronaldo hindering our supporting cast. Last season it could be true. But certainly not before that.
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@Grognard- Being a go to guy means you need to be the creative force of the team also. He should score them and make them as well. Look at other teams and their respective go to guys. Barca have the most unselfish of all in the goal and assist king Messi. Arsenal have Fabregas, Juve with Del Piero, Roma with Totti, Milan had Kaka and Liverpool with Gerrard who together with DB9(who I have indicated earlier should be our go to guy) were joint 2nd on most assists last season. Ronaldo doesn’t understand that language anymore. Rooney is a player from whom 25 goals can be realistically expected and that’s not such an average nor poor record that he doesn’t deserve to significantly share in goal scoring responsibilities. Berbatov is an even better scorer in my opinion and also deserved to be trusted with goal getting as his record preceded him. It is no coincidence that in the 06-07 season when he was less selfish both him and Rooney created the best attacking duo in Europe with both players almost touching 25 goals that season. Other players like Saha, Giggs, Solskjaer and Larsson pitched in with important goals too. We were the most exciting and most unpredictable attacking force in all of Europe and nearly made it to Athens( I think). So this arguement that the rest of the players can’t match up is flawed because they were never given a fair shot.
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@Redranter- I have tacitly implied that he wasn’t really hindering players in 06-07 but after that he was. Yes he was and is a mighty scorer of goals but does it necessarily mean of the 42 goals he scored in 08 none could have been scored by either Rooney or Tevez. He has always been a selfish player ever since. Ryan Giggs was once heard after being taken off by Fergie during that game when we got knocked out in the group stages by Benfica saying to the manager something like “what about that selfish ****”. I read it in some FourFourTwo article in case you would want to trace it. Van Nistelrooy couldn’t work with him either due to that and that was direct hindrance. In the glorious 08 season he was once again reliably selfish. But the difference was that he had taken it to a much higher level than preceding campaigns. This time noone had any chance at scoring from a freekick. They would just get into the box as routine even if they and the whole universe could predict the upcoming event with amazing accuracy. Ronaldo will either blast it past and over the wall, goalkeeper and the 1st 6 rows, or blast it into the wall or blast it in past the goalie’s ear. What was certain was he was going to blast it. That is hindrance if you ask me. And he started his “I’m the only player capable of scoring even if you’re in the so called better position” routine. So it wasn’t just last season. It’s just that last season he added other qualities to it or rather enhanced the already available qualities. Namely, petulance, pouting and the melodramatic arrogance shows.
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And btw, I don’t think Rooney is better than Ronaldo though he used to be. The only player I would rank higher is Messi who quite honestly is a good mile ahead of Ronaldo. And maybe Kaka at his best.
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@Jay wire: Perhaps Berbatov could take a leaf out of Ronaldo’s book. Get totally selfish and score a bundle of goals.
If the end result of being selfish is the player that Ronalo is today, then selfishness (in football terms) is an asset and not a sin!!
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@Jay wire: Totally disagree with you. van Nistelrooy, Gerd Mueller, Mario Kempes, Alan Shearer, Gary Lineker, Ian Rush, Hernan Crespo, Pipo Inzaghi, Raul, Miro Klose, Rudi Voeller, Ronaldo (Brazil), Romario and Batistuta are just examples of world class forwards who were go to guys but were not known for their play making.
My definition as well as the world’s definition of a go too guy is the “GOAL SCORER”. There are other terms that are given to the play makers, like “artist”, “general”, “creative genius” etc etc. But a go to guy in both sports that require goals, hockey and football are the goal scorers. If you want or need a goal, you go to them, simple as that. And as far as go to players, they don’t come any greater than Ronaldo. Michael Owen in his Liverpool days was a go to guy and Berbatov in his days at Leverkusen and at Spurs was a go to guy.
And finally, go to guys or strikers are paid to score goals so they are expected to be selfish most of the time. As I recall, Ronaldo set up many goals while with United so that argument holds no water with me.
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@Jay wire: When Ronaldo and Messi are both 100% fit, Messi doesn’t hold a candle to Ronaldo. His strength, presence, ability to dominate in the air and shoot with both feet makes him superior. He has the speed and pace to be compared with Messi and can dribble with him too. What exactly does Messi have over Ronaldo? Does he have the ability to take free kicks? NO. Does he have the ability to take penalties? NO. Does he score a lot of headers? NO. Can he play both on the left side as well as the right side and also as a striker? NO. Can he shoot with accuracy and velocity with both feet? NO.
All Messi has going for him is a more creative and classy cast of players who make him a great player. That is of course until Ronny showed up at Madrid and was paired with Galacticos like Kaka. Look at how ordinary and invisible Messi has been for Argentina. Portugal isn’t exactly great either but at least Ronaldo shows up and plays well and hard for them. Messi rarely plays well for his nation. The only skill I feel Messi has over Ronaldo is the quickness to get y an opponent from a slow or static position. But when dribbling at high speed, he is not better and hasn’t got the ability to cut in from the left and let go a vicious shot. All his shots are placed as he does not have a cannon like Ronaldo. Ronaldo also has many more tricks like back heels and flick ons and such. On a scale of 100, I’d rate Ronaldo when fully fit, a 94 and Messi around 87. Rooney and Kaka would be an 84 to get an idea of the difference in my mind. I’ve made my case and given examples of Ronaldo’s superiority. Who can argue and question me on any of the skills I have mentioned. So make your case mate. How is Messi better than Ronaldo when both are fully fit?
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