Dec 19
United Win and Some Non-game Thoughts
I couldn’t catch it live. And watching the whole match on tape, with prior knowledge of the result, can do only so much to the excitement a live match can generate.
First of all, tell me this: why does this tournament have to be scheduled in Japan every single year? [Apparently, it will be played in the United Arab Emirates for the next two years before returning to Japan.] So much for trying to foster a global appeal.
The game was unremarkable until well past the halfway stage: United went two goals up — courtesy, set pieces — before Gamba Osaka pulled a goal back. But it was Wayne Rooney’s introduction that really injected zest into the side. A few late slip ups aside — which gave the Japanese club a couple more goals — we did control the game, although there was the typical huffing and puffing that has come to characterise our play this season.
So 5-3 to United and, since I haven’t shown too much of an interest in this tournament, I will end the ‘report’ part of this post here.
Meanwhile, much speculation seems to have been put to rest — at least for the moment — on Ronaldo. First, this gem from Fergie — “I won’t sell them a virus” — and then Ronaldo calming things down with an “I’m happy”.
But with the amount of noise being made even among the more ‘credible’ news sources, the possibility of Ronaldo moving to Madrid cannot be completely ruled out.
The biggest news though is that of our round-of-16 draw with Inter. Mourinho returns to England and is bound to be a feisty affair. I wouldn’t call it a tasty match up though; on current form I expect both teams to stutter, huff and puff their way. Oh well, bring ‘em on!
Finally, Scott has done a great job of breaking down the FA’s mis-handling of the Evra affair. I’ve spoken of my disappointment in the decision earlier briefly, but he’s done a better job of it. I will disagree with the last part of it where he says that it’s one rule for United and one for the rest. I wouldn’t be too sure of that; I think it’s more all round inconsistency and incompetence from the FA, regardless of clubs, than a conspiracy against United in particular. Anyway, go read that piece nonetheless.
Related items from Red Rants:
- United get Milan, Giggs gets new deal
- Some More Thoughts Ahead of the Scouse Trip
- CHAMPIONEEEESSSSSS! YESSSSS!
- What Tevez’s Signing Means For Man Utd
- Few Thoughts on the Derby Win
Tags: Match Reports
December 19th, 2008 at 14:27
All the english teams have drawn tough opponents.conspiracy anyone?i wasn’t at all surprised that we’ve drawn inter.we are going in the right way,united way that is
December 19th, 2008 at 14:35
Thats a controversy against english teams and by the look of it its gonna back-fire….
December 19th, 2008 at 14:36
I still see all 4 in Quaters.. I feel inter will be tough but home leg will be very crucial..
December 19th, 2008 at 15:04
I am delighted at the draw, I personally hate every about Mourinho and the thought of Ronnie and Rooney running at the slow Inter backline fills me with joy, but if we had finnished second we would have had Panathinaikos, oh well.
December 19th, 2008 at 15:13
Ahhhhh we were so close to getting Real!!! Inter are hard. Mourinho knows us well and Ibra is probably the most on form player in the world right now. Cant wait!
December 19th, 2008 at 15:20
We are Man United damn it.The reigning world champions,league champions,unless they are going to pair us with a team from mars,we should be favourites.what are we bitching about?conspiracy?
December 19th, 2008 at 15:33
If justice exists, it should guide us to punish Mourinho for his brand of boring, shitty football. (If, of course, we play the attacking way we all know and love)
Id love another big result against Italian opposition!
December 19th, 2008 at 16:00
This is exciting at the same time scary!!!..Mourinho is a master tactician and Fergie right now is messing around with his tactics a little bit..United and Fergie really need to get their act together to get over high flying Inter!!..Their backline is not the strongest,but their midfield and attack is pro-Mourinho..powerful,dominating and get the work done for the day!!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 16:08
Fergies record against Mourinho: 1 win, 5 draws, 6 losses. Yikes. That’s okay though, cause that era of United football wasn’t fantastic. That was when Ronaldo was the most profligate, maddening player in all the land, now he’s the world player of the year. That was when Vidic and Evra were still getting used to the squad, now they are part of the strongest back four in England. There are many things that have changed about this United side and Mourinho was fortunate enough to depart just before the hammer fell. However, he is a good one. He is never to be taken lightly and will certainly find special motivation in this match. The great ones love to rise to the challenge so this should bring out the best in SAF and Jose.
December 19th, 2008 at 16:35
I really am exited! Inter, of all teams! The club my family in Italy supports! I am up for some fun, or possibly even despare. That it is Inter will mean that I might have a good chance of watching the San Siro game, because my relatives are Inter-season ticket holders. My-my… Of all 5 teams, we face Inter. I wanted Madrid though.
I am sure we can win. Inter are a good side, but not better than United. Thei Italian League has taken a huge step downwards in Europe since AC Milans win in 2007. I know its only a year and a half since, but the Italian League are playing horribly. The standard has gone below the Bundesliga, and Ligue 1 and the prtugeeze Leagues are becoming better. I might eat my words, but I am the “good” United side can beat Inter. Hopefulyl its the “good” side that shows up, not the one that lost against Arsenal or Liverpool. Besides, Anderson will have a chance to play at the San Siro while Mourinho is in charge! 
United to go through to the quarters.
December 19th, 2008 at 16:42
How the Fuck did this happen???I hate mourinho coz he always has something up his sleeve and since fergie is not good tactically this year we really are going to get Screwed…OHH how i wisf HARGO was fit for us, Carrick and fletcher are just light weights in the Midfield which would leave us with scholes and the inexperienced Anderson..Just keeping my fingers crossed , Have a BAAAD feeling about this match though!!!!!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 16:47
I am looking forward to it Mourinho is a big mouth prick, and it would be good to shut him up once and forall.
We should want to play the better teams over two legs, especially as the second leg is at OT. Unfortunatly for me I am sure the Mrs would fancy a trip to Milan!!
December 19th, 2008 at 16:56
@Stephen: You really think that a win here would shut him up once and for all? That would move his record against SAF to 6 wins, 5 draws and TWO losses. I don’t foresee silence anywhere in the near future.
December 19th, 2008 at 17:06
@Patrick: No but it would hurt him deep down, you can’t go on past results you can only deal in the present.
Mourinho was brought into Inter to win the Champions league and if we stop him doing that then I think we can be very proud of ourselves.
December 19th, 2008 at 17:16
Fuck mourinho and his record against fergie,I just don’t care about records or shutting people up and I hope Fergie Beats Mourinho’s arse and stop Offering Mourinho Free Wine…Just need to win it and screw the hype of Morinho vs Fergie honestly I just want United to win….
December 19th, 2008 at 17:20
The only problem I feel we have is Fergie’s tactical decisions recently has been similar to that of Jose and to me that could be disastrous for united ..Hopefully Fergie realises that..we are actually another Inter Milan in the Making!!!!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 18:36
As mourinho himself said, the record is not his it is chelski’s
December 19th, 2008 at 19:00
Well the draw is over and I for one have to question it’s fairness. We are the leaders in our group and we are the defending champions, so who do we get? Inter Fucking Milan
You have to be fucking shitting me. How the Hell do you win your group and end up with the Champions of Italy. Why not Juve or Roma? Because Inter were crafty enough to barely play well enough to qualify for the next round. Their domestic position or reputation means nothing because it all has to do with their placing after the first stage.
Inter is the last club you would want to meet. Mourinho does have Fergie’s number but that domination was with a stacked Chelsea side. Inter is a good side but they hardly scare me like Chelsea did under his tutelage. Christ, the looked horrible in their group and had to scramble to go through. Their form in Italy has also been poor. They may be leading but just barely. Mourinho has not been able to work his magic in Italy and he has been loudly criticized for his tactics being negative.
Imagine, Italians criticizing negative tactics. That’s like German’s producing the best stand up comedians on the planet. 
Inter scares me not. What scares me is United. United with their lack of tactical flexibility. United with their lack of grit in the middle. Inter will carve up the middle with hard players like Cambiasso and Vieira constantly hacking us down. And they do have enough class up front to make a break and have one moment of class count. I hate this draw not because we are facing Inter or Mourinho. I hate this draw or any draw because regardless of our little Japanese adventure, we are not the same team from past years and we can’t score if our lives depended on it. I can just see it now. Inter win at home 1-0 or 2-0 and hold us scoreless at OT. Yes I’m being negative but I have a fear of a manager who with all his negatives is truly a tactical genius. He makes the right moves at the right time and he is tough to beat when it gets to be crunch time.
With that said, a lot can happen until the middle of February when this tie takes place. United may have bought a player or two, they may have found some form and the goals may be coming like rain in Northern England. But I unfortunately won’t buy into that kind of optimism. United have played poorly for half a season and their lack of offensive flash and finish has all of us concerned. Bottom line is I don’t think we can beat Jose Mourinho and a Serie A side playing Jose Mourinho football with an Italian twist. Time will tell if I’m wrong but I have not felt that this year’s squad was capable of repeating any part of their double. I’m sorry but they just don’t seem to have it or the luck this season. And in the end I don’t see our team bettering a club like Inter yet alone in form clubs like Barcelona or Bayern. It’s a tough challenge and it will be interesting how we play that first leg in Milan. In Phelan we trust, right?
December 19th, 2008 at 19:03
@redrock 21: Very observant point mate. We really have become and Italian import, which for me is incredibly discouraging. In fact, I am disgusted by Fergie’s tactical changes with this club. They smell of fear and negativity and they don’t utilize our best assets which are our outstanding offensive players. Instead we force players like Rooney to play defensive roles and inject useless muppets like Park into the lineup to further hinder our offensive ambitions.
December 19th, 2008 at 19:04
@edi:
, Mourinho’s brand of boring, shitty football?. And United’s hasn’t been boring and shitty football to the feckin extreme this season then. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Mourinho whips Fergie’s arse again, but because I will be supporting United no matter what, I hope not.
December 19th, 2008 at 19:21
As I was watching the United V. Gamba game I was impressed how The japanese team went for it and didnt try to pack the whole team into the box. yes they got thrashed, but it made for an enjoyable game. This got me thinking… Gamba losing 5-3 to the Euro champs is a “brave, and admirable performance”. I have not read the british press yet about this game, but I am pretty sure they will give the japanese little credit for going toe-toe with the Manchester United juggernaught. Yet that same press will praise Sunderland for parking the bus, and keeping us out of the goal for 89 minutes. This is what SOccernet had to say about the game.
“…it seemed the Black Cats would record a suitable epitaph for his time in charge as they mounted a brave rearguard action.”
“If Keane was watching the clash of his two old clubs, he would have been proud of the way the team he assembled manfully stuck to their task.”
Now I dont know about you, but I dont see anything “brave or manly” about not forcing United into making one save or letting United command 72% of possesion. I give Gamba much more respect for the way they played, that is the way football should be played.
Watching spanish and German football, I cant recall a game when a team tried these cowardly tactics against a better team. In fact when I watch the games of big vs small in those league I am actually shocked at the level of skill these smaller team possess. This same level of skill can not be seen in the minnows that exist in the EPL. I think there has to be a change of mentality in England because they are falling behind to the rest of the world more and more each year.
I suggest there is a rule change in the way points are awarded after each league game. The simplest thing I could think of was to just not awards points for 0-0 draws. I am pretty sure that this thought isnt unique to me, but I feel it is a reasonable and simple solution to the problem, just like the elimanation of the back pass to the goal keeper(*cough* liverpool). By not rewarding points for scoreless draw, you will force teams into actually *gasp* playing football. It will also force clubs to bring in players who can actually play rather than just “get stuck in”.
Does anyone know if this rule has been suggested in the past to the FA?
December 19th, 2008 at 19:27
I REMEMBER WHEN:
Having just watched the Semi-Final of the 2009 World Club Cup competition in Japan, I was miraculously taken back to an era and region in football history where the game used to be played with all the great positive intentions.
Manchester United’s exciting and exhilarating 5-3 win over home team Gamba Osaka of Japan reminded me of a time when the game was less cynical and less corrupted by greed, politics and big money. I was reminded of a time when the game was all about entertainment and above all, outscoring the opposition.
The place and time is 1970’s Germany. The Deutsche Bundesliga during the “Total Football” revolution that had been started in the early part of that decade by the Dutch and by the Germans. An attacking free flowing style of play that included player interchangeability. A system that promoted goals and attacking ambition from any player on the pitch. Known as the “Dutch Whirl”, Anybody could move up into attack at a given opportune time, and somebody would replace him in regards to their defensive duties. A defender like Beckenbauer could make a long rush up field with the ball and a central midfielder would drop back and cover for him. “Total Football” really opened up the game and allowed more gambling and ambition. It also demanded that players be comfortable playing more than one position. It was a visual masterpiece to watch. Holland and West Germany displayed this style throughout the seventies and it thrilled and introduced the game to millions like myself as something truly artistic and beautiful.
The other night I witnessed a game that although lacking some of the tactics and principles of “Total Football”, did offer moments of it and it also offered 90 minutes of attacking ambition and excitement from both sides. I thought I was transported back in time by a Tardis and smack into the seventies where I was watching an old school Bundesliga match between Bayern Munich and Borussia Moenchengladbach. It was truly fun to watch a game where players and coaches suspended negativity and cynicism and decided that attacking and entertaining would serve the game better on the evening.
On so many occasions in the past two years I have received criticism from fellow members of this blog for being to negative and depressing. I have even gone further to play down this reputation of mine by even referring to myself as the “Prince of Fucking Darkness”. Somehow it sounds better coming from me than from someone else who doesn’t quite understand what it is that always makes me so negative. So why am I such a cantankerous old SOB? Simply put, I was lucky enough to be introduced to the beautiful game back when it was truly beautiful.
The first game I ever witnessed live on television was the famous 1970 World Cup Final where Brazil hammered the pathetically negative and evil Italians 4-1. My father was a football fanatic having had a short stint playing for the Panathinaikos reserve squad just before World War 2 in Greece. He was a big fan of Brazilian football and music and he just loved talking about Pele and Garrincha from 1958. Although I liked what I saw from the Samba side of 1970, I was only eleven at the time and my maturity in understanding the complexities of the game were very minimal to say the least. Perhaps that was a blessing though. Rather than watch for tactical setups and technical decisions cloud my enjoyment, I was just watching Brazil play the ball around like they were toying with the Italians. A grand scale game of keep away. At eleven years old the game looked simple and poetic. Samba was to rule my love for the game for the next two years until I saw the side that would from that day forward always be my favorite team.
If Brazil’s dismantling of Italy in 1970 was impressive, the 1972 West German destruction of bitter rival Russia was absolute domination and humiliation similar to the early days of 1941 when Germany blitzkrieged its way into Russia. What I saw on that day from the Heysel Stadium in Brussels was the Germans lay and absolute butt licking and lesson of total football on a bewildered and shocked Russian side. Displays of incredible passing and positional play like I have never seen before or since. When people ask me what I consider to be the greatest team to ever play the game, I shock them when I don’t pick either of the two Brazilian sides of either 1958 or 1970. What about the unlucky Dutch side led by Cruyff in 1974 or the England side that won the 1966 World Cup? Nope, for me the greatest team I have ever seen was the 1972 West German side that first humbled England 3-1 at Wembley and then went on to thrash a technically strong Soviet club in the final by 3-0. The score was actually humbling. The Germans toyed with their opponents. They quite easily could have doubled the score line.
So why am I going on about the past and what does it have to do with a fairly meaningless game played between United and an obscure little Japanese side? I suppose it may have to do with the fact the game reminded me of a better time in the game’s history as well, perhaps it’s because I feel so starved for the kind of football that reminds me of my youth and that quenches my thirst for entertainment and above all, lots of goals. Thank you to both clubs for demonstrating the great potential for the game without sacrificing integrity and intention. More games like that would add twenty years to my life expectancy. And perhaps, just perhaps it would turn this disappointed depressed and negative cynic known as Grognard or the PFD into the Prince of Positive Vibes.
December 19th, 2008 at 19:31
@johnsom33: Beautifuuly said mate. I agree 100% and in fact you kind of stole my thunder. My post that follows your insightful rant was written yesterday and I did not post it. I felt I would save it for after the Final. But I am almost afraid the final will be anticlimactic and therefore I offered it today. Your insight and accurate post just further emphasizes what I have been say all this season. The English Premier League is total rubbish. Kudos
December 19th, 2008 at 19:36
@johnsom33: Every team in the world could learn something from 1899 Hoffenheim. They are the glimmering light and only reason why football should even have promotions to top flight leagues by minnows. They got it right and they have the proper attitude and plan to succeed. They would rather lose 5-3 than lose 1-0 and show little ambition. England is rampant with cowardice. Truthfully, every manager in England should check downstairs to see if they are packing a pair. Our football is run by accountants and grocery clerks instead of architects and artists.
December 19th, 2008 at 19:39
@johnsom33: I would go one further to your suggestion. I’d deduct a point for a 0-0 draw and offer no points for a draw period. Force teams to go for a win. Make it that playing for a draw or not showing any offensive ambition would be detrimental to them. Harsh perhaps, but what is harsher is watching the total garbage that is being served up every week to paying hard working supporters in a time of great economic uncertainty. Shame on them for offering such trash to all these fine supporters of the game.
December 19th, 2008 at 20:15
Grognard:I agree with you on United being very negative and Fearful But Trust me on this,Come Feb 24 we will play Negatively and Fergie will still deploy rooney as a defensive forward and you and I will still be ranting about fergie’s tactics..Actually i feel fergie has got some kind of Virus thus stating in the press that he would’nt sell Realscum the virus..Just kidding
December 19th, 2008 at 20:48
I wish we would play attacking football vs inter , if you think about it the way we are playing now inter wont expect it and we might catch them off guard
December 19th, 2008 at 21:01
So glad that a couple of you fine chaps have spoken so enthusiastically about the Gamba game, and I loved being reminded of that Germany/Russia game. Because so many have reduced this current tournament to something barely above worthless, I felt almost guilty at having enjoyed the game so much. We have a team that should be playing total football, good selections permitting, and going back to our traditions of outscoring the opposition. I found last year’s champions league semi-final win hollow. Yes, we beat Barcelona but did European viewers see the real United stand up? Did they scollops! I like the idea of penalising 0 0 scores but see so many teams going one nil up defending deeper than ever to protect their lead. I would also have a dotted line beyond which a backpass cannot be made. Offsides? That little chestnut may take longer to debate.
December 19th, 2008 at 21:11
The game yesterday was actually a fairly poor and dull affair until the last twenty minutes or so when rooney came on. United showed a distinct lack of urgency. Ferguson probably told them not to strain themselves too much, which i think showed through the way our players seemed almost reluctant to counter-attack with any pace, play direct balls up to strikers or burst forward to support. We slowed the game down and were more interested in ball retention than anything else. There was no get-up-and-go. Ronaldo sparked some excitement when he got the ball at his feet close to the opposition penalty box, but was never in any hurry to run at the gamba defense when one of their attacks broke down and he found himself with plenty of space to attack from deeper positions. Gamba committed men forward and there were plenty of opportunities to counter-attack but united weren’t interested.
I was impressed with gamba. They were positive and direct, showing good ambition in attack. They were not particularly eager to get the ball back when united had it though. They were slow to press the ball, happy to give united space and time, while united were content with knocking the ball about. This meant united were in comfortable control of the match and it wasn’t much of a spectacle. At least there were some chances in the first half, a couple of shots from ronaldo and van der sar making a good save at the other end. In the second half there was 25 minutes of just about nothing until rooney came on.
December 19th, 2008 at 21:16
@ROOOONEY: I wouldnt hold your breath on a entertaining tie with Inter. The champions league is always a cagey affair, teams with great attacking talent are scared to death of there own shadows. Last year semi-final with Barca says it all for me. The world should have been treated to classic tie of attacking football, but sadly we were all robbed. While Barca only showed a little ambiton sadly we showed absolutely none what so ever. When I watch the first leg it appeared that United stuck 9 men behind the ball and then Ronaldo to go and win it for us. People always say Ronaldo didnt show up for that tie and that Messi was clearly the better player, but I disagree. Ronaldo had no help in going foward cause Tevez and Rooner were basicaly playing Right and Left Back. But I digress…
The point is, the Champions League often fails to deliver what you want, entertaining and fascinating football. I sincerely hope Im wrong and that United vs Inter will be all that we hope and dream for.
December 19th, 2008 at 21:40
@johnsom33: There wasn’t much wrong with barcelona’s ambition against us, they always play attacking football, but united’s mentality was shocking in that first leg. The second leg wasn’t a bad game but barcelona were the far better team and messi was the best player on the pitch by a mile.
I agree though that the champions league is a disappointment most of the time, and teams seem to be getting ever more tactical and negative.
December 19th, 2008 at 22:19
@johnsom33: Even back in the glory days of Total Football the European Cup was always a dull affair. In fact I remember a spell of about 6 or 7 years straight with 1-0 wins. The nationalistic and financial pressure to win the cup is so great that tactics are always very defensive and dull. Battles of attrition where one good chance is the difference between who wins and who loses. One can blame Italian clubs for this mentality but in the European Cup, it has been British clubs who have been guity of playing for the 1-0 win. Liverpool bored many four times that way. The only time they actually played a good game and won it was 1977’s 3-1 win over Moenchengladbach. Otherwise it was 1-0 against Brugge, 1-0 against Madrid etc. Add to that the boring and disgusting play of Nottingham Forest in two straight Euro triumphs. 1-0 against a far superior Hamburg and 1-0 against Malmo. I fthat wan’t enough Aston Villa had to bore the planet with their very lucky 1-0 win against Bayern 1982. These clubs won the goods for English football but did nothing for the style and quality of the game. They bored us to tears. And the tradition continues. Rarely have we seen a European Final that was worthy of greatness. 1999 and Liverpool’s miracle a few years back are the only ones I can remember. Politics, cowardice and negativity is what the Champions League is all about.
December 19th, 2008 at 22:42
Mourinho was feckin lucky in his only European game against us. The game was thrown away by Tim Howard – remember him?. Otherwise with a couple of minutes to go, we had them in the bag. So Mourinho is limited by the players he has at his disposal. I think he has a lot of good players at Inter. I fear from an attacking viewpoint, that his strikers will outgun ours, because against top class opposition we have not proved ourselves victors this season. To be honest, we have been SHITE with a capital T. So I am not expecting much, then I won’t be disappointed.
December 19th, 2008 at 22:49
pretty horrid tie really…
Them and Barca are Europes form teams
Zlatan is on fire right now….loking like a much better Berbatov really!?
Really hope Fergie gets his act together or we could be out real early.
Theres just too much confusion, inconsistancy in our midfield.
Who is our best pairing? Id go for Midfield 3; Carrick, Anderson, Scholes
PS- Best thing Fergie has don this season is make Wazza no.9…….HES UNPLAYABLE sometimes
December 19th, 2008 at 22:49
@johnsom33: I’d blame that on the 2 leg rule, if teams didn’t have a home leg to fall back on and it was just let say 2 legs but on neutral grounds or just a single leg, it might make it more entertaining. Personally I don’t see Fergie repeating the same tactics(strange that everyone now says its FERGIE’S tactics, but when something goes wrong everyone is keen to point out that we miss QUEIROZ’S tactics and that it was those tactics that got us through last season), but I wouldn’t be surprised at Inter parking the bus one bit.
December 19th, 2008 at 22:54
And about Inter and Barcelona, a LOT can happen between now and February, the match isn’t next week or in 2 weeks, its in 2 months. We’ll see where Inter and Barca are form wise then.
December 19th, 2008 at 22:57
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KTg6ViguPLg
big MANU improvment it seems?!
December 19th, 2008 at 23:28
when fergie comes out and says he wants wayne as the no.9 it proves that dimi IS being played out of position! but it does make sense though, in a way. berbatov can play passes from out of this world but the thing is, he’s a no.9, and if fergie is serious about rooney leading the line, then i want berba out for the sake of his career and me posting on this site!
Fergie IS going senile because buying berba was pointless if your going to play him out off position. we need an aguero, totti rooney(before saf) type of player.
think of this, where would YOU play ibra, infont or behind cruz?
December 19th, 2008 at 23:28
@Grognard: very nostalgic grognard, and a very worthy piece of contention for red ranter’s blog competition. you should definitely submit it!
December 19th, 2008 at 23:43
@dan(u-ol): But Berbatov isn’t really good at leading the line either.
December 20th, 2008 at 0:19
RedDevilEddy, comment 10, shit you got family in italy who support inter aswell, small world huh im the very same. All my family in italy are massive inter fans and gotta say i always like to see them do well too but against united im only gonna be supporting the team in red as always.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:05
@bildani: Thanks for the compliment. I have different one in mind for the competition but I do appreciate that you got something out of this one. Truthfully, I could write a book of memories and thoughts of that period of football history in Germany and Holland. Halcyon football and mentality to outscore opponents rather than the present mentality which lives by the motto minimizing damage.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:40
@Matthew: Me too. United over every other team, every player, every nation, every second of every hour of every day of the week during the year. United, Kids, Wife- In that order.
Best banner ever!
December 20th, 2008 at 1:42
@Rd: Perhaps you should watch some games or highlights from his Leverkusen and Tottenham days. He is exceptional at leading the line. Fergie is misusing him and that unfortunately is the bottom line. United has become a tactical case of musical chairs. It’s bad when we the players are forced into playing a defensive brand of football, but to ask them to play positions or roles that they are unaccustomed to, I just don’t see the wisdom in that. Sure Fergie is the Boss and he might know slightly more than the Grognard
, but I for one am seriously concerned in the makeup and style of this team. I am also concerned that this negative style of play is only going to interest defensive player to come and sign for us in the future. What world class striker will want to come here and end up playing and attacking midfield role or what central attacking midfielder will want to play a defensive side midfield role? Anything goes with Fergie. Honestly, I think he creates his strategy and then pulls the names out of a hat other than the back four. 
December 20th, 2008 at 1:49
@Matthew: I actually have a cousin and his wife and kids who live in Milan but they are AC Milan fans. Funny thing is they are Greek by heritage. The guy’s job transferred him there eight years ago. He loves football but he hates Inter. I of course hate Italian football with a passion. I love the country as it is beautiful, has great food, wine, women and incredible architecture and history, but I so despise their style of football. If I was to support a team in Italy though, it would be Inter because I have fond memories of the days when German favorites like Rummenigge, Klinsmann, Matthaus and Brehme played for them. That was a fun team to watch as was AC Milan with the Dutch trio of Gullit, van Basten and Rijkaard. Back then there were truly great foreign players playing in Italy and lead by the great Maradona. But today, God I think Serie A is just a joke. Can’t stomach the league at all. For me it will always be United and Bayern.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:55
@dan(u-ol): You’re right. ‘buying Berba was pointless’
why do we have 3 strikers who all play the same position though? Rooney is the best at leading the line though because he is the only 1 of them who I’ve really seen to be able to pull goals out of nothing in a United shirt. I said this would happen if we bought Berba. We should have gotten Eto’o! He was going on the cheap and is probably in the top 5 all round strikers in the world. So what if he has attitude problems? He wouldn’t have been moaning if we were winning. He wouldn’t hold the ball for about 10 seconds on every counter attack 
December 20th, 2008 at 4:54
@dan(u-ol): Dan(u)ol mi man, is tghere anyone Fergie does play in their RIGHT position these days
.
December 20th, 2008 at 5:00
@realred: Please do tell me Bro, in which games THIS SEASON you think Wazza has been unplayable, because I must have missed them
.
December 20th, 2008 at 6:14
@Liam: While Rooney can create something out of nothing, he can also create nothing out of something. such is the frustration with the Roon.
December 20th, 2008 at 10:05
@Liam: my point kind of flew over your head didnt it…
if we had bought eto’o, eto’o would be no better then berba, because eto’o LEADS the line same as berba, but good old, senile, rudolph would play him behind rooney.
this is not berbas fault at all, the blame for him not scoring like he can is firmly on fergie.
and btw, rooney cant lead the line for shite!
December 20th, 2008 at 10:15
@Craig Mc: no, not at all.
December 20th, 2008 at 11:11
Cmon now craig, for a month or two when he shaved his head, he looked like the real deal. When he is that type of devastating form he is truely unplayable!
Heard that Liverpool are snooping around for Renato Augusto.
I swear this boy is pure gold, if we signed him we could aford to lose Ronaldo.
Wish we’d brought him from Brazil last yr…….
December 20th, 2008 at 12:24
Are we still whining about this Evra thing? Sure, he’s one of our best players and we’ll miss him for the four games, but he fully deserved that ban. He hit a member of the Chelsea staff! Even if Bethell did call him a “fucking immigrant”, which Evra himself didn’t claim at the hearing, that’d be no excuse.
We need to move on from this one because it’s spats like this where we just look like a spoilt child of a football club which expects everything its own way all the time.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:37
@johnsom33: Mmmmm – someone with common sense at last when it comes to assessing the IN/OUT form of the Roon
. You know I agree with your comments 
.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:39
@realred: Well that SKINHEAD look of his certainly helped to cement his clogging image
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December 20th, 2008 at 13:14
@michael: go back to supporting chelsea.
December 20th, 2008 at 13:36
@johnsom33: The thing is, Ronaldo does that more than any other player and he doesn’t get any stick for it. He needs about 10 shots for every goal and don’t tell me he doesn’t. Torres, Messi, Adebayor all need plenty of the ball for their goals. The only thing that I can think of is that none of these are the saviour of the England team. Rooney scored the same as Messi and had more assists last season and while I’d be the first to tell you that Messi is a better player, Rooney offers our team something that nobody else does. Look at our form without him for proof. Rooney gives the 2nd best output in the league (goals and assists) and I guarantee if he was Portuguese or Brazilian and not hailed when he was 16 as the best thing since sliced bread, people would be saying he is world class (which he is) and be focussing on the good parts of his game instead of all the bad parts. Look at Ronaldo, does anyone call him an accident waiting to happen? This is somebody who completely ignores referees and kicks out and headbutts players. Yet because he is Cristiano everyone ignores it
December 20th, 2008 at 13:46
@Liam: Don’t know how you can say that Ronnie doesn’t get the same type of stick Rooney does for his petulant image, and ref baiting antics mate. You must have been missing for the many posts accusing Ronnie for what he has become, especially this season. Nobody is proud of his retaliation kicking out at other players, and is fast becoming Rooney No2. So I cannot agree with your last post mate, because several people and myself included have commented on Ronnie’s unacceptable behaviour. So like I said, you must have missed our posts
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December 20th, 2008 at 13:53
@michael: Michael, I don’t care what you have read mate, but did you see the televised scenes of the incident?. Chelsea hit out first before Evra responded. Also, don’t know how much Abramovich payed Manchester United and the seedy bunch at the FA to keep the racist comments out of the report. Because intitially that was Evra and United’s main complaint, and Chelsea officials asked United to drop the racist charge, and we refused. So what happened?. Bethell was openly reported a member of the BNP, so that should tell you something mate.
December 20th, 2008 at 14:21
@Craig Mc: 1 or 2 posts maybe in every 600 doesn’t really compare to the magnitude of posts that Rooney gets. Ronaldo has an immunity from criticism from Fergie, the players and the fans because everyones afraid of him leaving if he gets upset. He’s a baby and has a 12 year olds mindset when it comes to football
December 20th, 2008 at 14:28
I see the ‘Rooney bashing’ has come back in style
@Liam: Liam buddy, I made those same arguments a few months back but some would rather focus on his missed chances and hot-headedness. Rooney is one of the best players in our team, and in terms of output and contribution, he’s the best. That game against Osaka – even though they were comparatively weak opposition – showed the effect Rooney has on our team. He is the catalyst of our team and if not for his selflessness, he would be more prolific. His team-mates have been saying this, so they must know what he’s capable of when not asked to sacrifice for the good of the team. Look at what a manager, who didn’t exploit his versatility, did to his confidence and composure!! Under Capello, Rooney played where he does best and look at his goals, assists and general performance!!
All I’m praying is for Fergie to get his tactics and formation right so we don’t have to keep on playing our talented players out of position like he’s currently doing to Berba. I mean, when we bought him, wasn’t the plan to play Rooney in the hole and Berba as a No.9? Why the sudden change of tactics?
If we need an attacking mid, i’m sure ando or Carrick can do a decent job there, not Berba, Rooney, Giggs or any other square peg. 
December 20th, 2008 at 14:37
@Liam: Maybe Liam, but the fact still remains he is the best and most CONSISTENT striker we have when he is injury free, and not imprisoned by 3 opposition defenders on surrounding him throughout the game, and when that fails CHOPPING him down every time he gets the ball. I can guarantee that if Roon got the opposition treatment Ronnie does, he would see red in nearly every game.
December 20th, 2008 at 15:39
@Gabriel:
Bro you slay me. Liam and you are so Rooney protective. If anti Rooney posts fill you with such ire, just ignore 
. Some of us are only stating the bloody obvious – Rooney is not the world beater you think he is, but he is a good player, yet inconsistent over a whole season. I agree with the poster who said that Rooney has IN and OUT parts of season – end of. And he is in fact a nasty piece of work at times, and some fans don’t appreciate his nastiness or any other players for that matter 
.
December 20th, 2008 at 15:57
Yeah really this confirmed what I already suspected that Ferguson views Rooney as a number 9 and when he saw Berbatov’s creativity decided it would be the perfect opportunity to push Rooney forward. Ronaldo is played wide and will not get as many goalscoring opportunities. Rooney will probably get a lot more opportunities and with his strength and running he’ll create a lot out of nothing-but his conversion rate is just way too poor!
December 20th, 2008 at 16:07
@colver: His conversion rate is just way too poor. You dared to say this with Liam and Gabriel on blog with their (‘For all Rooney disparager’) RIFLES’,
.
Just jesting lads
Your right though about poor conversion rate – more so this season than last. He does seem to be coming into a bit of goalscoring form lately though, so hope it continues and bodes well for us.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:00
@dan(u-ol): Hell I can see Huntelaar plying the RWB position for us and Eto would have been a good choice for the Gaffer at DMF because he can hold up the ball.
Fergie is like a mad scientist. He likes to experiments with minerals in millions of combinations. Madness!
December 20th, 2008 at 19:01
@dan(u-ol): Hang on EVDS, Vidic and Rio haven’t been moved around……..YET.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:06
@realred: Why is it that so many Rooney fans cannot face the truth. He is a super talent that is woefully inconsistent and streaky. To be a truly great player you have to have two things going for you besides your God given talent. Consistency and luck against injuries. Rooney has had none of these. It’s not all his fault. Fergie continues to screw around with formations and positions and Rooney has had to play roles that are unfamiliar to him and where his abilities to score are compromised. With that said, he still has issues of his own. His temper gets the better of him and although his first touch is sublime, it quite often betrays him in a tight spot in the box. As good as he is, he’s not as good as some make him out to be because if he was, we would not be constantly bringing up his weaknesses and his countless disappearances of form on the field. I love him but he was born to frustrate.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:08
@Craig Mc: Hey read mine too Bro. It may not be common sense but it could be nonsense.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:11
@Liam: “He needs about 10 shots for every goal and don’t tell me he doesn’t.” OK, he doesn’t….
Truthfully, he doesn’t. This year his form and conditioning has suffered and he has had to take lots of shots but that certainly was not the case last year. Sure he misses from time to time and every great player does because they have the will, sheer audacity and courage to try something, even if it’s a half chance. Ronaldo in form is a sniper of the first order. Sorry to disagre with you on that mate. 
December 20th, 2008 at 19:19
@Craig Mc: Evra and the whole team was fucked over by a conspiracy of idiotic proportions. The FA are a circus of wankers. Even if he was guilty, he was baited and for that alone, he should not have been suspended for more than a pre game piss. The decision is an abomination and their clear bias towards London based clubs yet again shows it’s ugly head. And for those who don’t buy the conspiracy angle, fine. Whatever the case, it was an injustice and it speaks volumes of the FA’s continual attempt to use the books of DF Seus to interpret the law. Assholes and idiots.
Like I would take the word of a fucking Chelsea grounds keeper over a professional footballer who has never had a reputation for violence or a temper? If it was Rooney, maybe. His reputation as a hot head is known, but Evra? Give me a break. And the video evidence itself confirms my suspicions. It was a travesty of justice designed to sabotage our championship run.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:27
@Liam: On that I agree and I would also throw in Ronaldo for that special treatment from Fergie. Today’s player holds managers hostage and for ransom because their big money can basically control the proceedings. They have so much financial power that they basically can threaten the team if they feel they are unhappy. Causing disharmony and anarchy eventually leads to a transfer. In the old days id counted for a suspension and a seat in the stands. But the money aspect, agents intrusions in day to day business and the bias and preferential treatment shown to players by the FA and FIFA in matters like this give players the upper advantage most of the time. Fergie is the Boss and he is a stubborn old disciplinarian but, over the past few years he has mellowed greatly. He just doesn’t relish these confrontations anymore and he is letting certain inmates run the asylum. And you wonder why the team is playing like crap, when what is needed is a swift kick in the ass and a good hairdryer treatment like the one I got yesterday at my barber’s. Some players are allowed to do their OJ Simpson imitations and figuratively get away with murder on this club. And it has to stop for the good of the team. That’s just an outsiders view looking in.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:43
@Grognard: I really don’t think it’s that intelligent Grog
. More like, well this player needs a bit of playing time, so stick him on lads 
.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:46
@Grognard: I am SURE I saw Rio put into midfield for us, in the latter part of one game last season. Edwin and Namanja I will credit you for
.
December 20th, 2008 at 19:54
@Grognard: Grog some great points in this post, and I agree with them – all except the sublime 1st touch mate, because often he lets the ball run away from him, and not just in the box. I have to admire some of the goals he has been getting lately, but he is not the best against tightly packed, park the bus defenders. Then again he is certainly not alone in that department, and shouldn’t cop all the flak. St Nemanjah has got us out of a couple of scrapes hasn’t he?. Has his headers become more potent and arrowed, or is it just my imagination?. He seems to have improved. Now to me, Nemanjah IS World Class defender, a great buy for us
.
December 20th, 2008 at 20:03
@Grognard: And yet for all his mellowing, Fergie has still brought in the trophies, he is definately a winner.
With regards to Ronnie, I remember last season Fergie talking to the press, and saying that Ronnie is so SELF analitical and debasing (after games) where he has played badly, that he does not need to blast him. He said we know which players benefit from the hairdryer, and which players don’t
.
December 20th, 2008 at 21:31
Craig I think the guys mean we should use the hairdryer on Ronaldo for his general attitude. On the pitch he needs encouragement as much as anything else because the guy gets so much abuse from defenders and he needs Fergie on his side. Personally I think Fergie does an excellent job doing his upmost to ensure Ronaldo gets protection and Ronaldo is too ungrateful to realise it.
This season Ronaldo’s form is a bit off because of the injury and the psychological issues players go through when they are injured. He needs to get his confidence and swagger back and feel sure he is clear of injury problems.
And yeah Rooney’s touch in the box confuses me. At times it is amateurish. Just to restate my views-Rooney is an awesome player but I feel he does not have the scoring consistency to be a number 9. Berbatov based on his two years at Spurs does!
December 20th, 2008 at 22:17
@Craig Mc: He shouldn’t get on Ronaldo for his play but for his attitude and his childish behavior at times. It’s the same with Rooney. I wouldn’t get on Rooney for his play but his temper and stupidity in his constant retaliations. It’s not about ability but discipline. These players are fantastic but they need to grow up.
December 21st, 2008 at 0:11
Craig Mc, comment 74, yes you are right about ferdinand. I seem to remember a game a couple of years ago against wolves in the fa cup if i remember correctly and he was being played as a defensive midfielder. Im not sure how long that is, about 3 years is it, but yes ferdinand has been played elsewhere from a centre back.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:04
Ronaldo has absolutely no football brain. That is why he is not the best player in the world. When he gets the ball he sees the goal and makes a beeline for it. When he gets closed down he panics a lot of the time and just shoots. He doesn’t see the things going on around him the way Messi does. It is only when his way is completely blocked that he looks up and sees a team mate. I personally don’t and never really have thought he is all that he’s cracked up to be. It’s his sheer athleticism and good luck which have made him a great player but because of his arrogance I believe that he never developed another style to use when he is double or triple teamed. Instead of passing when he sees players coming he tries to plough through them.
P.S. Yes he does take a whole bunch of shots. He doesn’t know how to properly strike a ball so he just hits it as hard as he can from outside the box and 9 times out of 10 he mishits it and it goes tamely wide or trickles into the keepers hands. Don’t even get me started on his free-kicks