Jan 06
United’s debt situation explained
While I’m on a linking spree let me add this one too.
United Rant has a very good break down of the debt situation — this is in light of our mooted interest in exchanging our “debt for bonds”. Those who don’t want to break their head to understand the financial intricacies, can read Ed’s piece which tries to explain it to a lay person.
When you’re done laughing at City (linked in the last post) it’s time to get a dose of reality here.
Related items from Red Rants:
- David Gill’s “Out of Context” Cop-Out
- The Glazer Financial Breakdown
- Media Avalanche of Glazer-Debt Stories Gathers Pace
- United To Steer Clear of Tevez
- United News During International Breaks
Tags: Links
January 6th, 2010 at 18:23
At Man Utd everything is downhill except Debt
January 6th, 2010 at 18:44
An absolute horror story and possibly even worse off then even how I made it out to be. Somebody needs to get whacked.
January 6th, 2010 at 18:52
More fuel for the fire.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/markogden/100004694/why-it-will-take-another-sheikh-mansour-to-rescue-manchester-united-from-the-glazers/?
January 6th, 2010 at 19:03
Another article I saw yesterday here explains much of the same, but with a slighly more global tone.
Things are very grim men – looks like we’re gonna have to grit our teeth for some years to come
January 6th, 2010 at 19:09
How long will it take for the players to get itchy feet and look elsewhere for the remainder of their careers. With the prospect of no new players, trophies or fat contracts, who could blame them!!
January 6th, 2010 at 19:42
@Redrich: That article brings up another alarming fact. Early knockout from the FA Cup takes away the revenue stream they would have received from say two or three more home matches in that competition and if this is also calculated into how early they get knocked out in other competitions over next few years, thats a lot of money that United isn’t making and even less chance of Fergie getting a plug nickel to spend on balls for training yet alone new players.
Again the thing that really bothers me is that I wasn’t the only one to see this coming a few years back. I had worries about the Glazer’s and their agenda before the market collapsed and before the Glazer’s lost a lot of their personal wealth. Nobody wanted to listen back then but that’s OK, back then it seemed kind of far fetched and even I felt I was grasping for straws or being too negative in believing in worst case scenarios.
So what do we do about it? Man City today was bailed out by their owners in terms of their debt and Roman did the same thing last week for Chelsea. It seems that only us and Liverpool are stuck sailing down Shit Creek without a paddle, and is it any coincidence that the owners of both teams are American. Nothing against Americans, but their business model has always sucked and has always been flawed and corrupt in it’s manipulation. The pyramid system is alive and kicking. Profits don’t pour down to all. Instead it’s slow trickle where the Glazer’s get most of it at the top, the taxman gets his and the bank gets their minimum requirement. That leaves the team at the bottom acting like a rider in a desert trying to suck drops out of an empty water canteen, while the sun beats down on his body.
I agree Red. It looks like we are going to have to grit our teeth and endure a number of years of horror and embarrassment before things improve. How bad will it get before it gets better? I think half empty OT and a team struggling in the bottom half of the EPL and even fighting relegation is not an impossibility, although it is improbable. More likely we will struggle as a top 12 side but have problems even making into Europe yet alone the top four. Why? Because after Fergie retires, I think our financial situation and lack of transfer money will turn off a lot of prospective replacement managers who in any other scenario would grab at the chance to manage United, but not under the circumstances the Glazer’s are steering the team towards. Mourinho wants the job but i could see him turning it down after a interview with the Glazers whereupon they tell him that his transfer budget for the year is 10 million or possibly less.
You know that Mourinho will not take that, nor will Blanc, Spaletti or any other prospective manager looking for a high end job. Our reputation and brand is starting to crumble and it will not take long before our name is mud in world football and we start to head in the direction of Leeds Utd, but maybe not that badly. One day a rich money bags from somewhere will come and bail this club out but it will have to reach close to rock bottom in order for it to be a more affordable sale. The debt and the brand name hang over any perspective buyer like an albatross because it requires way more money than the club is actually worth. Meanwhile we will still have to read the responses and posts of those who feel we are fine and we are only in a “transitionary period”, and that our team will continue to fight for first despite all the evidence and analysis that says the exact opposite. We are entering Mordor.
January 6th, 2010 at 19:56
We played ALL matches last year except the FA Cup final… if that does not make up for a horrendous 3rd round exit this season, we are in far greater trouble than I ever thought!!!
January 6th, 2010 at 20:09
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I’d imagine it does, as these do not include last seasons financial results, with a massive amount of games, including the club world cup trip to Asia, the new £20mil a year shirt sponsorship and the £80mil for Ronaldo.
The big question is not how do we get out of this, but why did the Glazers buy us? They aren’t taking money out for themselves, it’s going to repay debt and interest, so I can see literally nothing in it for them unless they sell us to someone, which it seems like they just dont want to do. Mind boggling.
January 6th, 2010 at 20:10
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I suggest you pass on that thought to the Glazers, who are apparently using every penny we make to service their debts.
January 6th, 2010 at 20:27
@Grognard: I would suggest our ring is already in the fire!
If only we could own our club like Barca. I’ve been trying to crank some sums, and for us to make this happen we would for one have to assume that the Glazers would be willing to sell at the level of our current debt for no profit.
To raise the £800mill we would need to find 400,000 fans willing to cough up £2,000 for nothing back. And that’s just to gain control of the club, let alone another £500 each to raise £200mil to invest in the team. I’d be very interested if anyone has any information as to how Barcelona run things.. I know they have about 170,000 ‘members’ but I’d like to see how much they pay each season for what.
If all the doomsdayers are right then we really are up Mordor creek without a paddle. Even with an economic upturn and refinancing I fail to see why the Glazers would take us over.
January 6th, 2010 at 20:29
@Grognard: Well the cats out of the bag now, and I’ll just wonder if Ferguson will decide to keep up the charade or come clean.
In my mind, either way he looks ridiculous. What a shame that the final years of his service to us will be marred by this.
I actually see him bagging ASAP – the longer he sticks around now, the harder his legacy will be hit!!
January 6th, 2010 at 20:34
@Traverse: I’m not sure what the sums members pay, but for a president to stand for election he needs to deposit several million in the Barca treasury — a non-refundable deposit I think.
January 6th, 2010 at 20:34
@Traverse: They can use the valuation of the club as an asset and when you wheel and deal like they do (in the credit market) it gives them collateral against their debts!!
January 6th, 2010 at 20:53
Hey all I’m a gooner, I come in peace. I have to ask you all, you must have seen this coming? Say what you want about Wenger, he always looked out for the long term interests of the club by living within his means. Fergie only cared about his legacy. It has been a great ride, I hope you don’t go anywhere south too fast, I enjoy the rivalry, but there is a greater picture to be seen here. This overspending has to stop otherwise everyone will suffer.
January 6th, 2010 at 20:58
@stonroy: Re: us seeing it coming – most United fans viciously opposed the Glazer takeover, and the Man United Supporters’ Trust have been opposed from day one. It’s just that Ferguson’s presence and our success during the reign has drowned the discontent till now.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:00
@Grognard: I think your avatar would jump at the chance and the grim scenario you imagine is the perfect time for THE KING to return
fret not lords and ladies of mancunia
January 6th, 2010 at 21:05
I know, maybe we can get the American tax payers to bail us out.
After all we are “too big to fail” just like AIG, GM and half a dozen Banks that come to mind.
I heard rumor the Obama is a staunch United fan from way back.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:08
Redrich Obama supports West Ham
January 6th, 2010 at 21:10
@stonroy: our spending the past few years is in the negative we have spent less what are you talking about i think you want chealscum, manshitty, or fakeMadrid.
but thanks for the kind words i guess we will have to let our 18 trophys keep us warm in these cold days
January 6th, 2010 at 21:12
@stonroy: A lot of us saw the writing on the wall when the Ronaldo money wasn’t re-invested in new players.
But with all the smokescreens it’s been hard to fathom the truth. Until now!!
January 6th, 2010 at 21:13
@stonroy: That cunt!!!
January 6th, 2010 at 21:16
I’m a cunt now. Wow, fine. Take it easy fellas good luck for the future.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:22
@Traverse: If not buy the team per se…
Maby supporters could pool up to buy new players.
IDK about you guys but instead of bitching i would throw down a couple grand to see a DAVID or two from Valencia come to OT in the summer.
I think the Glazers have overextended themselves like all to many others did recently but otherwise have been good stewards of uniteds legacy. I would hate to see a consortium of world businessmen take over and have to hold ten matings before transfers were approved or the like. The Glazers have pretty much let the club run its self and cheered them on from the stands(or a bigscrean).
That article is a great breakdown of specifics that still dont tell us what the future holds. If this bond issue is what the Glazers need to happen for United to Continue on the “path of greatness” then fucking sign me up for my share God knows ive watched enough games on stream for free to be able to chip in where i must so that the entertainment continues.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:24
@stonroy: he didn’t say which United
January 6th, 2010 at 21:37
@gator: Their problem is they have 2 debts. £200mil at 15% interest, and £600mil at 5% (which is actually a really good rate). It’s the £200mil’s interest rate that is the problem. Unfortunately we have to pay off the £600mil before the £200mil for complicated reasons.
The bond will increase our total headline debt, but pay off both the £200mil and £600mil. That way we have consolidated into one debt with one interest rate, hopefully also around the 5% mark, and raise say £200mil to spend on the team. That sum would take the debt to £1bn, with a repayment of £50mil a season, which would not increase.
Our current interest repayment has risen to over £76mil a season, so it will allow us to spend on the team and stabilise our finances somewhat.
What’s puzzling is how the Glazers expect to pay off the actual debt, not the interest repayments. Or how they make any money out of everything.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:38
@stonroy: No one called you a cunt mate. (Unless you want to take that tag upon yourself.)
January 6th, 2010 at 21:46
@stonroy: This has nothing to do with Fergie and everything to do with the Glazers. The fans were against it and the board were against it. We all new what was goign to happen. To say this is a tactical win for Arsenal is a bit of a smug joke. It’s just luck that your lot haven’t sold out to Usminov yet (and I stress YET, it’s only a matter of time till Lady Bracewell-Smith buckles) but even then I assume Usminov would be using his own money.
At the time they took over there was nothing any of us including Fergie could do.
January 6th, 2010 at 21:52
I hate those fat yankee bastards…Typical Americans. This is how they deal. Starts right at the top in the US government. Leave us alone for god sakes. Why dont they buy within their means?
January 6th, 2010 at 21:56
@stonroy: i think he was talking of obama being a hammers fan but see ya
January 6th, 2010 at 22:12
@Traverse: by sale of the club to the asian consortium
they are reported to have an offer of 1bn on the table which is less than the supposed valuation of 1.5bn. The bond issue could be a way for the Glazers to consolidate the debt and make a sale more attractive to potential buyers ie profitable for them at sale.
January 6th, 2010 at 22:14
@stonroy: Hold on, mate. If you follow the thread of messages you could see I was just joshing. (“That cunt”, referring in jest to Obama suppporting West Ham)
January 6th, 2010 at 22:20
@Redrich: eh dont think he got that since he typed your name instead of replying… first time post and all.
oh well
January 6th, 2010 at 22:31
Beckham is shining for Milan…Becks and Dinho in full flow
January 6th, 2010 at 22:37
@gator: What you expect from a gooner, eh!!
January 7th, 2010 at 0:45
@Redrich: poor guy
January 7th, 2010 at 0:47
@gator: i should not let the glazers off that easy ’cause of the debt and fuck them for it but we could be worse off.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:47
@Traverse: Your 100% right, our debt has nothing to do with overspending. Fergie had zero control over the sale of the club, so it’s foolish to claim that wenger had it right all along.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:31
@Johnsom33: It was amazing that at the time of their take over, we all knew the ramifications of the way they bought us, but we were powerless to do a thing about it.
I suggest that some form of regulation be put in place, by FIFA, to prevent a hostile bid like theirs ever being accepted in the first place. If this happens to a lot of the top teams (and I think it already has) it could destabilize the whole financial structure of the sport.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:15
@Traverse: A group like MUST should start a non profit fund drive by basically advertising world wide to not 400,000 fans but the literally millions of United fans all over the world to even donate 50 pounds or $100.00 USD. Millions of donations could possibly wrestle control of the team and then the team would be in an easier selling position. But my feelings aren’t about the millions of fans donating money in order to buy control of the team. It’s about anarchy. It’s about forcing the Glazer’s to sell. Don’t show up to games, don’t buy merchandise and above all, use the Internet and start some massive anti Glazer hate campaigns and start some well organized and large protests in front of OT. Maybe I have too much time on my hands but as God is my witness, if I lived in Manchester I would have begun to organize such events. It upsets me greatly that United fans are showing such apathy and are showing such naiveté regarding this situation and aren’t realizing that it’s going to take action on their part to end the Glazer’s ownership.
Or, that money drive gets the 600,00 pounds of debt money needed to clear the debt with the promise that once paid off, the Glazer’s sell. To dream.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:19
@Redrich: I feel for the man then I think about it, slap myself on the head and say that he brought this on himself by allying himself with sharks. He went to bed with the Devil and he knew it. What’s worse is that for two seasons now he knows it yet he continues to lie and protect them and that for me is the tough part to handle. I cannot find the words to describe the disappointment I feel towards this man that I so admired and respected from afar.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:22
@Traverse: If the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid can be virtually publicly owned teams, then so can United. I’ll say this, if United ever became a publicly owned team, I would find money to become a share holder, even if it was ,0001% ownership. A great team like this should be owned by it’s legion of fans.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:24
@stonroy: How refreshing to actually have an intelligence Gooner’s fan show up on this blog. Totally agree with you about Wenger and Fergie. I am no Arsenal fan but I have always had a very strong respect for Wenger due to his intelligence and his responsible actions that always looked after the best interest of the team he was building. But I must also say that there comes a time when you must add some quality to blend in with all those kids.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:26
@Red Ranter: And that alone is Fergie’s biggest crime. He took away MUST’s momentum and strength by staying and offering the stability that wouldn’t have been there had he quit due to the takeover.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:29
@gator: A return of the King would be fantastic as a coach but not as a manager. Even as a GM, because his name and reputation carries weight with players all over the world. The position Sir Bobby holds right now would be great for the King too. But none of it would mean anything until the present owners are gone or put in front of the firing squad. While they are running things there is no hope and any signing of a Cantona or Mourinho would be nothing more than smokescreen PR move that would have very short term effect.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:33
@Redrich: He’s busy trying to figure out the bomber got into the airplane. Now if he could only figure out how the Glazer’s actually got control of United, perhaps he could reverse the situation. I personally think the Glazer’s and the Liverpool duo are a CIA plant designed to destroy the English economy and to soften up Northwest England for an attack.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:34
@Redrich: I tried to tell them Red, but nobody would listen to me. Call me frustrated.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:35
@stonroy: No mate, he was referring to Obama, not you.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:37
@Grognard: I know. It’s quite illogical for me to feel resentment to him, but I do now, and it’s really because he’s set himself up as the Galzer’s front man.
He’s much more accessible for the brunt of my rage than the Glazers can be and until he comes clean and washes his dirty hands of the shit he’s been trying to purify, I’ll continue on his case.
As a fan I feel let down by his callous approach to sincerity and his total lack of connection to the passion we feel.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:41
@Grognard: With age, comes wisdom!
Everything else sucks though!! 
January 7th, 2010 at 3:41
@gator: Ah come on mate, you cannot be serious about that can you? Look I know you are a Floridian (By the way congrats to the Gators for their big bowl win) so perhaps you all stick close together but sticking up for the Glazer Extortion machine is just more than I can stomach. I have already written tons of material showcasing just how evil and criminal they have been in the way they are running this team and also that their purchase of this team was done in a very irresponsible way as they used the clubs wealth to borrow against it. Highly unethical in all the world other than the US. And lets face it, look at the US market and all the banks and Ponzi schemes. Can the Us ever raise their head to the rest of the world again without showing shame in the way they play with other people’s money? The Glazer’s are a product of a financial system that was way out of control and incredibly unethical. Unfortunately the idiots who were running the club before allowed such scammers to take the team over. It was the crime of the century.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:49
@Traverse: What they are trying to do is what many people who get into credit card trouble do. They use another card to make minimum payments on one card and just move minimum monies around in a dance of death that will eventually end when the banks say enough. But until then the team’s profits are disappearing at an alarming rate. All those shirt deals, telecom deals and such with middle Eastern and Asian companies are bringing in millions that are not going to the team or to the banks to pay off the debt.
The Glazer’s are playing for time. They will be shut down one day by the banks but by then they will have sucked out hundreds of millions of United’s profits and stuck them in their own secure accounts in Switzerland or off shore. This is how all the .com’s worked and how many of the CEO’s of thousand’s of .coms made millions and then disappeared when the companies crashed in 2002 and 2003. The difference is that they stole investors money where the Glazers are just taking profits from the team which in a way belongs to them but is being irresponsibly stolen when the club owes lots of money and when it needs more money to operate properly on the field.
January 7th, 2010 at 3:55
@Redrich: His total lack of appreciation and respect for the fans is what bugs me. I remember just a few years back at the end of games he would look up at the stands and especially to the Stretford end and would raise his hands and clap in appreciation. Nowadays his hands are in his jacket pocket and his head is down and he could care less about those poor fools who paid their money to go to OT to be fed a pile horse shit. It truly offends me his ignorance and attitude towards the real people who pay his salary. He needs to understand that.
January 7th, 2010 at 4:01
So I read that Beckham’s debut with Milan went beautifully and that he was very influential in the game and that Klass Jan Huntelaar scored a goal. Are you reading this Fergie you giant horses twat. Two of your greatest mistakes doing well to spite you. And if I wasn’t a die hard fan I almost would want them to come here in February and kick our ass just to spite you and teach you a lesson about loyalty and also a lesson on judging talent better.
January 7th, 2010 at 4:07
@Grognard: Huntelaar scored bcoz Ronaldinho offered him to take the penalty
January 7th, 2010 at 4:16
@Redrich: the current system is like Russian roulette, top teams are available for people to buy. We were just unfortunate to be purchased by owners who don’t have liquid cash. It hurts me to say it but we are in the same boat as Liverpool right now.
January 7th, 2010 at 4:26
@Johnsom33: But evn Pools are doing their best to boost their their squad by taking some good players on loan but here there is no movement despite knowing we need urgently.
January 7th, 2010 at 4:36
@Grognard: Huntelaar scored a penalty to top off a 5-2 rout. Bringing up Beckham to spite him is moot because Ferguson was proven right in selling Beckham. The results spoke for themselves.
And even if Huntelaar came, with a non-existent midfield, we’ll be arguing over his lack of service.
January 7th, 2010 at 5:09
@Johnsom33: Well in terms of debt we’re worse off than them!!
One one saving grace is that our overall value will probably allow them to refi successfully. But this could certainly be a double edged sword, because until we devalue considerably, who on earth could afford to bail us out from the Glazers clutches?
January 7th, 2010 at 5:11
@Red Ranter: Love it!
January 7th, 2010 at 5:18
@Redrich: Ultimately we need a rule change. One that would allow us to run a RR track from the center spot to the goalmouth. All we’ll have to do then is bring Berbie his pipe and slippers and he’ll be knocking them in, one after another!
January 7th, 2010 at 5:32
@Redrich: I think when compared to Liverpool we are more valuable because of old trafford.
January 7th, 2010 at 5:34
quote from a telegraph reader…
“So Berbatov gets jack from Rooney, and, with his casual style, he suffers big time in the perception stakes when the United supporters start looking for a scapegoat after a defeat.”
it’s funny but sadly true.
January 7th, 2010 at 5:43
@Johnsom33: True, but out current value of our club is $1.5 billion and that is the key for the Glazers.
Holding an asset of that value gives them huge leverage in all the wheeling and dealings that they care to enter into.
If things turn south for them, they could just default and allow their creditors to be our new owners. Scary to say the least!!
January 7th, 2010 at 5:45
@Johnsom33: It was probably NicoQB.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:00
@owen: Did not know that but either way, he put it in the net now didn’t he.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:03
@Red Ranter: How exactly was Fergie right in selling Beckham?
It’s been how many years and he seems to be going just fine in my books. He did pretty well in Madrid considering they often played him out of position and he did well last year in Milan. I couldn’t care less about MLS. Once again Becks gets the royal shaft by a United fan and to be honest it pisses me off. He was a great player for us and continues to be a great player that Fergie should never have cast out into the wilderness simply because he had a wife and lifestyle that didn’t jive with the old man’s sense of taste.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:13
@Redrich: The value of the team is totally contingent on how well they do and how well they maximize their potential for earnings. By not buying players they will slip in the standings, possibly miss out on Champions League which will in turn chop potential revenue and marketing opportunities. If they were to miss Europe altogether that could be catastrophic as it would mean less revenue from merchandising world wide and also lost revenue from fewer games played. The worse the club plays the more their reputation and glamour will fade which in a matter of time will make them a also ran in world football. It wasn’t that long ago when Barcelona were suffering the very same problem in generating money and interest in their brand and then they got Ronaldinho and Messi to change the team’s fortunes around.
One thing the Glazer’s have never gotten and it can be backed up by the way they have run their NFL team is that in order to make money and win, you need to spend money on player talent. They prefer to go on the cheap and expect fans to be stupid frakken idiots who will say what the fuck, I’ll pay and go to the game anyway, even if we suck. And so far their master plan has worked because Tampa Bay still draws well and United does too despite the chilling brand of boring passionless football that has been on display. Let me remind everyone that Tampa Bay has not had a big name skilled player on that team in over ten years. The Glazer’s are past tolerating. They should be driven off a short pier attached to cement blocks.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:16
Ben Arfa has been priced 40 million.This is completely ridiculous.
Again we will have to hear from SAF that he is not finding the value in the market.Oh God
January 7th, 2010 at 6:22
@Grognard: Huntelaar is one of the most unluckiest player in the world right now.He and Vaart are only two, not great but more than good players, who never starts the game.It is painful to see players like Crouch and Milito start every game while Huntelaar warms the bench.More so he is at his prime age.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:30
@Grognard: Grog, I think Beckham was on the decline when he left United. He had lost pace and vitality but was still a very good player because of what he offered in pure ball skills.
His time at RM was predictably unsuccessful (as is most), but the move to the Galaxy really got in my craw.
It was clearly a “cop-out” to easier competition and the huge contract that he was offered. At the time he could care less about football, just the money, just the star status, and the breathing room.
I think he has regretted the move and has tried to make amends to the European audience, but IMO it’s because he hasn’t got the spotlight he expected when he first went to LA.
I don’t dislike David Beckham but I like him a lot less now than I did a few years ago!!
January 7th, 2010 at 6:36
@Grognard: Agreed, the price is contingent on the state of the market and the condition of the property.
God help up if either one of those variables turns in a southerly direction!!
January 7th, 2010 at 7:03
@Redrich: But still Beckham is miles better than Park and he would have been happy to be a part of the squad and play 25 games a season.Plus he is world – wide star and very popular in Asia and other parts.So would have been good for commercial purposes also
January 7th, 2010 at 7:41
@owen: The problem with world football and 6 world class midfielders when there is room for only 2 strikers and 4 midfielders. That means good players are going to sit on the bench. Meanwhile their are dozens of other clubs that would improve greatly with the services of one or two of these bench warmers but the players do not want to go to such teams because they are not glamorous enough and because they do not benefit from the money and attention they get from the Champions League. In a way the big teams and the greedy players deserve each other as the players get less playing time and the teams have to pay OTT money for players not playing all the time. The modern game truly sucks, but then again, I wouldn’t complain if United were to sign a few of these primadonas.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:44
@Redrich: I’ve never disliked him but I did lose a little respect for him when he went to LA because I too thought it was a copout and a money grab. Still, I think was marvelous in his last year with Madrid and he was very good with Milan last year. Frankly, the guy can still play and contribute and the only thing he has lost was pace and foot speed which he had none of to begin with. He’s still the greatest crosser ever and a hell of a dead ball specialist and I certainly wouldn’t complain about having that kind of weapon on this team.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:48
@Redrich: That’s what I have always been afraid of. A lack of long term thinking and a mentality that believes in the old proven way that in order to make money, you need to spend money. Trying to tell that to the Glazer’s is like telling Canadians that hockey is a bore. They just don’t get it. Why? Because they know they can make money without losing money in the process and once the well dries up, they will cash in again by selling it and walking away with never having had to personally pay a dime of the debt off. Meanwhile, the team will start to resemble something like Everton or West Ham. No wonder Fergie favors David Moyes to take over.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:50
@owen: He is a brand name himself and yes he sells merchandise but how much better is he than Park? On one leg he is millions of light years better than that useless Korean git.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:01
@Grognard: He’s done fine and we’ve done fine after selling him. The proof is in the results. So Fergie was right to let him go. And it’s incredibly naive to think Fergie was the sole culprit in the Beckham transfer. Becks had at least 40% say in moving to Madrid.
I respect Becks as a United player and legend, but I’ve moved on ages ago to still weep over his every performance. Past is past, and the results have proved that Fergie certainly wasn’t wrong in shipping him.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:26
@Red Ranter: Look Beckham was never irreplacable but he is a Legend,Was Fans Favourite and in some parts of the world Face of Man Utd.I belong to a place where Football was or is not much popular but then also Everyone Knew Beckham .We have never missed him but yes with him the results would have been even better.Any day i will choose him instead of Park
January 7th, 2010 at 8:30
So this is the last season of Neville as he has has not been offered new contract.what a sad day it will be when he will play his last match..
It will bring the end of aggressive side of Man Utd.Great news for Pools Fans.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:35
@Grognard: The best team for Huntelaar will be Arsenal or to some extent Spurs.But why Wenger is not so keen on him i dont know…At Utd he will be complete flop.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:39
@Grognard: Any player who is worse than Park among the top four???
Eboue???Babbel???Kuyt???Baletti???
No
I got the answer …
Anderson and Terry
January 7th, 2010 at 9:07
@owen: Yes he’s a United legend. When have I denied that? Of course he has a special place as a former Red to me. So? Do we have to cry every time he plays well? Or curse Ferguson for ditching him even though we did just fine even after he left? Well, boo hoo hoo! Not for me.
January 7th, 2010 at 10:00
@Johnsom33: @Redrich:
Nah, I only cmment here!
But thumbs up to the guy.
January 7th, 2010 at 10:04
@Grognard: Pedantic, but Beckham did have decent pace back in the days. He could run, but had a running style where he would plod hard, making him look a bit ungraceful.
But his fabulous stamina meant that he would always be likely to play until his late thirties if he took care of himself (was apparently hands down the best trainer at the club).
January 7th, 2010 at 11:59
@owen: I was just coming on here to go mental about that. A player who failed to live up the Marseilles’ expectations after joining them for £9mil has a fist fight with a player, falls out with the manager, and was bout to be sold to blackburn for £7million. The great Manchester United are interested he is now worth £40million.
It’s a fucking joke, there should be some sort of regulatory body that adjudges players worth.
Fergie 100% right. There is no value in the market, and the same people say Vidic is only worth £25million? Based on this Vidic is worth £125million.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:06
@owen: What it will bring the end of is terrible performances at right back. Rafael should start as many matches as possible.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:08
@Red Ranter: Shame on you! Becks is a BIG part of United history, of us winning SOOOOOOOOOOOO many titles, AND he was at that time a United legend, and in my eyes still is!
January 7th, 2010 at 12:19
@Traverse: But for that to happe o’shea should also retire
January 7th, 2010 at 12:26
@Traverse: Is Ronaldo only twice as good as Arfa based on their values??? Or Marseille are confused regarding the ownership of United and City???
e it good?
But I want to buy Arfa for 40 million so that we can sell Vidic for 125 million,nani for 50 mill,Foster for 30 million…Will not b
January 7th, 2010 at 12:28
@CraigMc: Bechham will forever remain a bright star in Utd History
January 7th, 2010 at 12:32
@owen: And Park for £4milion
January 7th, 2010 at 12:45
@owen: You got that right mate
January 7th, 2010 at 13:04
@Traverse: Park at 4 million will be too costly
.I think we will have to pay 4 million to the buyer to purchase him
January 7th, 2010 at 13:08
Wenger is ready to sell Fabregas to Madrid if they get Higuain.Madrid will be unplayable then.
January 7th, 2010 at 14:17
Diouf will wear 32. I was going to mention this possibility, as it’s his favourite number according to Football Manager
If Obertan and Diouf turn into first team players, will they be the best bit of transfer business we’ve ever conducted?
£3mil and £1.5mil in today’s market is amazing.
January 7th, 2010 at 14:41
@Traverse: I dont know about Diouf but i doubt Obertan has got to make it at Utd.I hope he proves me wrong
January 7th, 2010 at 14:59
@owen: Shining in the firmament of stars of United, Beckham would be a small dwarf, when Robson is a red giant and Giggs and Cantona are quasars.
January 7th, 2010 at 15:45
@NicoQB: What about Park???
January 7th, 2010 at 16:10
@NicoQB: Do try and talk sense mate!
January 7th, 2010 at 17:05
@CraigMc: You said Becks is a United legend. I said the same too. You said he had a big part of United winning titles, and I said he has a special place in my heart as a former red. So I don’t know what you’re on about. All I said was there’s no point crying over every fuckin’ performance Beckham has now with AC Milan.
This shows you didn’t read my comment at all. So shame on you.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:34
@owen: He will most likely be remembered as an aimlessly drifting asteroid.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:35
@NicoQB: For the sake of cosmic puns, he was a galactico and he also played for the Galaxy.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:42
@Red Ranter: Becks was far less than 40% involved in moving on. I would say it was 70% Fergie, 20% the boot that Fergie kicked into Beck’s face and 10% Becks. Fergie had a major problem with Beckham’s lifestyle, the fact he was living in London and commuting and just the pop culture thing. You also mystify me with your comment that Fergie was right to let him go because the proof was in the results. What results were those? The fact that we went into a three year skid where all we won was an FA Cup while Chelsea won 2 league titles and Arsenal won another. I’d say the results favor Beckham. It was clear that until Ronaldo matured, the loss of Becks was very much felt. It’s not about the fact he left. It’s all about how he left and why he left.
You like to move forward mate and that’s fine. But do not begrudge those who cling to the past. I respect the old guard and those old legends who made a difference for us. I’m not advocating that United should sign Beckham or that had he stayed that he should still be with the club. Clearly he has slowed down a bit and he is nowhere the player Ronaldo is. What I am saying however is that he got screwed and that the majority of the blame falls on Fergie. Becks was completely disrespected and made to feel terrible despite having given his heart and his soul to the club which he still feels loyal and tied to. Despite all that, Fergie showed no class not mentioning Beckham’s return in any news conference after the tie between us and Milan was announced. In other words, Becks is dead to him. And why exactly? Did Beckham miss training, did he miss a game, did he not work hard or was he got taking drugs or having orgies? None of that kind of shit happened. The man simply married a Spice Girl and entered a life of glamour and fame and for Fergie, that was crossing the line. So call me bitter but I am loyal to my heroes and Becks was a player I personally loved and enjoyed watching. And it was a sad day for me that he should be bullied out off of the team he loved because of one old man’s curmudgeon approach to managing. Fergie was wrong and for that I don’t forgive.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:43
Bologna want Macheda on loan.
Would be great for him, if Fergie wants to stick with Welbeck.
Kiko will get valuable playing time and hone his skills. no doubt in my mind he’s the better of the two, though I have some reservations about his attitude.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:48
@owen: Beckham has always been one of my favorite players. In his years at United he was always up there with Cantona and in the 90’s he was my third favorite player behind Klinsmann and Cantona. I loved his skill set and I thought he was a very talented player. I loved his free kicks but I truly marveled at his ability to cross so accurately. Is he a legend. Damn straight he is. He gave the club almost a decade of great football and leadership and he still loves and follows the club and would have come back to the club in an instant for borscht had he been asked. But with Fergie there is no coming back. I mean he is treated as if he committed some personal crime against the Boss. It’s ridiculous and it’s shameful.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:51
@Red Ranter: Well, he did believe in his own star.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:54
@owen: Sad day? Hell, it’s a joyous day. My only question is why wait until June. He should retire now and free the captaincy up for a player who deserves it. Selfish git went on for three season and held the captaincy for ransom while providing nothing to the club. He may have been a good loyal servant for many years but in the end, he out stayed his welcome and selfishly hung around and kept the captaincy hostage while sitting in the infirmary. I have never been a Neville fan despite the years of service but that is not the reason for my lack of appreciation and anger towards him. His not willing to let go of his captains arm band has long been a real beef with me. A great team like this needs a full time captain. His best friend Beckham had the class to give up the England armband when he realized he would no longer be a starter or even a sure selection. He should have learned from that. Although I am not about to say good riddance to him, I will say that I hope the door doesn’t hit him on the way out. Sorry to RedNev fans who love him but I am just being honest. He never was my cup of tea and I always thought he was rather overrated to be honest.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:54
Diouf will be one of the best signings Fergie has ever made, hope he is in the squad for Brum.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:55
@Grognard: I understand your love for Beckham but he was past it and i think he had stopped enjoying life as a footballer preferring showbiz. You remember in his last season Ole had dislodged him from the right wing especially in the big games?Not only was he below par for united but England too. I still remember Rooney putting him in his place at half time dor England.
He went to Madrid, and failed to dislodge an aging Louis Figo from the right wing but because of the commercial nature of the team they had to put him on the pitch.
You are the one who always complains about Fergie sticking with over the hill stars out of loyalty yet you dont seem to say in your opinion when those players should live.
Off the topic, by the way Ballack has 2 assists in the league same as Anderson
January 7th, 2010 at 17:57
@owen: Wenger does not like to spend money. Huntelaar probably costs too much for Wenger. Remember, he has bought the Kanu’s and Adebayour’s of the world for peanuts and made them expensive players. Buying Huntelaar is just not his style financially. And with our present midfield and winger setup, Gerd Mueller and Pele would be flops at United.
January 7th, 2010 at 17:59
According to “reports”, quote the daily mail, Neville is indeed going to be retiring this year.
I would not be surprised that the “reports” in question originate from ROM, redrants or redcafe…
January 7th, 2010 at 18:00
@Footy4Eddy: All that Diouf talk from Fergie is just meant to divert the fans from the problems and poor performances of our great club.It is intended to come as a breath of fresh air and i am sure Fergie knows this kid will not play a single meaningful game for United.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:04
@owen: Terry? Are you kidding mate. He is a royal cunt and a giant horse’s ass but he is a great player and a great leader. I hate his guts but I would not go so far as to say he is a bad player. As for Anderson, yes he sucks supremely but there is an ounce of talent in him. He is capable of the great run and he can dribble and protect the ball well with his giant ass. He is also occasionally capable of making a great through ball pass (although I haven’t seen one for ages). Now please tell me, in comparison to him, what can Park do? I have yet been able to assertion if the man has one single solitary skill other than being a pest. And as far as being a pest, I think he is the best pest in the world when it comes to irritating his own teammates and fans when he is on the ball.
There is no rhyme or reason why a player like him that is so lacking in football skill is actually playing and often starting for a team like Manchester United. Both he and Anderson are the two main culprits holding this team back other than the owners and Fergie.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:10
@Red Ranter: Yes we do. Why? Because it’s part of showing appreciation and respect for one of our legends who was wronged. And make no mistake about it, he was wronged by Fergie. We can love and respect the Boss all we want but when it comes to Beckham, he acted wrongfully and disrespectfully and irrationally. He didn’t show Keano, Stam and RVN much respect either in the way he kicked them out of OT also. Yes he had his reasons but yet again, it’s about respecting your servants, especially the ones who have given their heart and soul to the team like Keane and Becks especially.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:10
@Grognard: Beckham could always cross accurately, but what was ultimately his downfall (other than his off field antics obviously) is that he failed to make use of the other great footballing skills he had.
Such as great technique, an eye for a great through ball, a variety of shots from distance.
It always bothers me when people talk about Beckham as a crossing machine, when at his peak (when Rivaldo unfairly pipped him for the Ballon d’Or) he had much more to his game than that. But in the end he ended up being a caricature of this and somehow stopped using the great panoply of skills he had.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:12
@Grognard: As I said boo hoo hoo! I loved Beckham when he was at the club and I was gutted the day he left. But shit happens and we move on.
To bring him up after every performance for another club (6 years after he left us) is just pointless. We all know you love Beckham to bits and this has to be the thousandth time you’ve mentioned it. But to use it as an occasion to continually call Fergie a twat is not good for anyone’s system. There’s already more pertinent negative shit that’s going on to castigate Fergie for.
All you’re doing in the process is sounding redundant — and I don’t intend to be rude with that remark. Just calling as it sounds to me.
Cling to the past as much as you want. No one’s begrudging you that. But most here have moved on despite having fond feelings for the player. Let’s move on to topics that are more relevant to the team right now. The Beckham argument has been done to death and it bores me to tears to be drawn to it again and again.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:14
@donibrasco: Okey. You believe whatever you want, but I`ve seen this lad play for 3 years and I know he is gold. I`m just gonna let Diouf prove how good he is on his own, I don`t think there is any need for me to speak highly of him.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:16
@Grognard: Hey Grog, is Mesut Ozil any good?
He’s been just anointed best player of the half season, and it dawned on me he’s an AM – one of the player positions we could do with reinforcements.
Is he really a new Effenberg (god, I loved crazy Stefan) or not?
But naturally, /Arsenal had to be interested. After the pipped Ramsay from us – who by all accounts is going to be the next Fabregas – I would hate them to get another world class AM, while we’re stuck wth Anderson.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:16
@NicoQB: Exactly. I often felt that he was believe it or not, underrated because for me a fan of the game for 40 years, I have yet to see a player with a more accurate cross or long passing ability than Becks. It’s lijke a bleeping radar magnet. Just watch the muppets that are trying to cross the ball on our team these days and you realize that Beckham was truly in a class of his own. RVN was a great striker as were Cole, Sheringham, Yorke, Ole and Cantona but they all greatly benefitted from Beckham’s incredible service. I cannot help but wonder how much better Rooney and Berba would be with that kind of service. I know Owen has already benefitted from it for England
January 7th, 2010 at 18:18
@Footy4Eddy: I hope he’s not made of the same gold that Anderson is made of!
January 7th, 2010 at 18:18
@Footy4Eddy: You also continue to think Anderson is world class. So let’s wait and eh?
January 7th, 2010 at 18:19
@Red Ranter: You gave the opinion in latter part of your comments that LEGEND’s once gone – then forgotten. You said he wasn’t missed judging by results – but the opposite is true. Should you curse SAF for the whole thing – well maybe not CURSE, but certainly blame belongs to SAF. His treatment of Becks was appalling, and he was willing to push him out the door probably because he wanted to bring CR7 on. Becks has said all along that he was pushed, and that it broke his heart. Fergie wanted to push him to Barca, but Becks refused and chose Ream M. For all the times Becks has said he was pushed out, the club has NEVER denied it. SAF had a problem with Becks, because he had a higher profile than SAF. Also SAF can’t bully the new breed of footballers because they up and off, and won’t take it. This is why SAF says that today’s footballers are soft! What he means is that they will not be BULLIED by SAF anymore
.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:22
@Footy4Eddy: I’m looking forward to seeing Diouf Eddi, he certainly cannot be any worse than our present inept forwards! I bet he would have scored against Leeds for sure
January 7th, 2010 at 18:23
@Grognard: Jeez mate Keane could hardly move when he went to Celtic and only played 10 games in a pub league, one minute you say Nev and Scholes should retire because they have had then you say we should have kept a player who will need a hip replacement on.
Beckham turned down numerous contract offers and wanted to leave, Fergie also wanted him due to his “brand Beckham” which he spent most of his time in London, he lost his focus and we bought Ronaldo for half the price not as bad trade off.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:23
@Traverse: You know I often wonder if their is a covert campaigne by football GM’s and managers around the world to screw with the big clubs just because they are big clubs. Of course there is. But to be so blatantly ridiculous about it is absurd. Recently Leeds placed 20 million price tag on Jermaine Beckford because his goal against United and the fact he has 20 goals in League one has made him get noticed. Now he is clearly not worth that much but Leeds are right to demand that kind of money for one reason and one reason only. They value the player’s contributions and their only way of holding on to him is to turn the big clubs off of his scent by overpricing him. Now I would like to say that is what Marseille is doing with Ben Arfa but that cannot be the case because the player has played poorly for them and has been a distraction and disciplinary problem. That leads me to speculate that some GM’s just have it out for the big teams and united in particular because Fergie has a way about him that irritates them. So they relish the opportunity to piss him off I think. Demand 40 million from United and then sell him for 15 to Real Madrid or some other team is what I fully expect to happen. All in the name of spiting Fergie.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:25
@CraigMc: I love you Bro. I want to bare your next child.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:26
@Red Ranter: But SAF was a twat over Beckham, and he is still twattish with a lot of his teams and formations this season.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:26
@CraigMc: I said we move on. Which is different from forgetting. Well we can then say oh we want Bryan Robson back, and Cantona back and Keane back and Solskjaer back. And we can say Fergie dumped Sparky and a whole host of others back in the day and blame him for not wanting them anymore.
Because Ferguson has been able to bully his players into doing what he wants he’s been this successful. It’s a bloody football team, not a democratic government. Ferguson is not without his flaws, but he’s a pretty good man manager. Yes he had some fault in the Beckham and Stam saga. [And he was man enough to admit his fault about Stam.] But it’s his dictatorial attitude that stamped out the drinking culture in the side. It brought discipline in the squad. We wouldn’t have been half the side if Fergie didn’t bring about fear in his players.
But let’s forget all that, and bring up two big mistakes he made with players in his tenure of over two decades. Even though he rebuilt just as well.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:26
@Footy4Eddy: Am not saying you are wrong because i believe you know him more than any of us here but i believe Frtgie is using the boy to cover the teams shortcomings. Look at Macheda. Atruly gifted player who cant even get minutes especially with this shit football every one is playing.
I pity young footballers who come to United these days as Fergie no longer has time for them.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:27
@Footy4Eddy: I can’t see it mate to be honest, he is already 22 and if he were going to be a top player he would not be playing in Norway as there are so many scouts looking for talent. For me is sums us up, we are skint and we are taking punts left right and centre and crossing our fingers that one comes off.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:28
@Grognard: Oh and shame on you for encouraging a comment that was made by Craig without half understanding what I wrote. Just because he agreed with you on Beckham.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:28
@owen: No, Fergie should. O’Shea is a valuable sub who can play anywhere. Fergie misuses him or overuses him and that is the problem of him being at RB too much. The time has come for Rafael to get his chance and to see if he is the man for the job or if the club needs to go to Man City and borrow cash in order to buy Philip Lahm or Maicon.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:29
@donibrasco: What like the twins, Gibson, Evans, Welbeck, Obertan and that waste of space Anderson who have been regulars this season?
January 7th, 2010 at 18:29
@owen: Well garbage and compost are recyclable so he could have some value.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:32
@owen: Madrid would truly become an awesome entity if they were to get that CM box to box general and the world class CB like a Vidic. They are pretty stacked at every other position except maybe LB.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:32
Anyway I’m done with this Beckham debate. I loved him when he was with us, but there was strong evidence that Beckham was equally at fault much before the boot incident with Fergie.
No one came out looking like saints after the Beckham to Madrid saga.
We’ve done this Beckham debate to death several times and a better time to revisit this is when the Milan games comes by (even if it will annoy me)
Neville might retire now, and if someone wants to show respect to an old guard despite his losing his way over the past three years, I’ll create a thread in a bit and we can discuss that, Diouf and the Birmingham match coming up this weekend.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:34
@donibrasco: You seem to know fuck all about Becks mate judging by your comments! His Mrs wanted him to leave United many years before he did, because she wanted to live in London – he point blank denied her, and insisted he would NEVER leave the club he loved from his youth. Ole Gunnar only displaced him on the wing as you say, because Becks was honest enough to admit how he got a split eyebrow from SAF losing it and kicking a flying boot at him. SAF didn’t like the news headlines – boo hoo what a shame for Bullying SAF! SAF’s bloody mindedness caused us 2 or 3 PL titles, because Beckham was a lot more bloody potent and proficient for our team than you give him credit for. Stop making excuses for SAF mate, Becks was still at the top of his game when SAF thru one of his wobblers, and got rid! I won’t defend SAF for the indefensible mate!
January 7th, 2010 at 18:34
@Stephen: You could say so.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:36
@Red Ranter: I agree with all your points with regards to Beckham, for me he was a very good United player with a superb right foot but not a legend and a lot of fans feel the same, his wife made him loose focus and that caused friction with him and the manager so him leaving was best for both parties.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:38
@donibrasco: Truthfully I think bar the Rafa and Evans none for me are United quaility.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:40
@Red Ranter: I think we can guarantee it will annoy you RR, especially IF Becks scores or makes the goals that knock UNited out of Europe I will hate that it will be a bummer, but old players have an incentive to try extra hard
.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:44
@Red Ranter: You are soooooooo touchy today RR
.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:46
@CraigMc: Once again you don’t seem to understand me. Let me explain again in simple terms.
I will actually feel happy for him if he scores, but obviously disappointed over all if we lose to Milan. That’s obvious. I’m a United fan and anytime we lose I’ll be mad.
As I said I always respected his professionalism and work ethic and his importance to us. And if I were at OT that day I would give him a warm reception.
However, I won’t pin the blame purely on Fergie for the Beckham transfer because I firmly believe both had significant parts to play in the move.
I don’t know why this is so hard for everyone to understand.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:49
@donibrasco: WTF you talking about mate – Fergie gives young players more opportunity than any of the other top clubs or mid table teams do! This bunch of supposed young bright things have proved so far to be anything but bright mate. And we have lost a good few games because SAF has been OVER playing youngsters if truth be known! Rafael if the only one giving a reasonably good account of himself so far, and Delaet hasn’t been bad either bar the Fulham game, and even then he did ok considering the MF numptee-ism he had in front of him that day!
January 7th, 2010 at 18:49
@CraigMc: I don’t care when people personally attack me or disagree with me.
But I do get annoyed when people respond to my argument without fully understanding or reading it. Mostly they end up saying the same thing (thinking I am saying something else) and it means I have to repeat myself over and over again.
And I get more annoyed when even the intelligent people who fully understand my argument respond like they didn’t.
January 7th, 2010 at 18:51
@Red Ranter: Maybe because Roy Keane gave an entirely different account of Becks departure, as did Veron, both firmly putting the blame at Fergie’s feet!
January 7th, 2010 at 18:56
@Red Ranter: Gosh you need to lighten up RR. The whole thing about communication, is that a person says something, but somebody else reads or hears something different. That’s life! I don’t understand when you got so touchy – PERSONAL ATTACKS, blimey – I just didn’t agree with some of your post comments, and I did read the parts I was on about correctly. You used to have a touch exterior mate – what happened?
January 7th, 2010 at 19:00
@CraigMc: I didn’t say you attacked me personally. I was talking about something else. Anyway never mind. We’re cool.
It’s just that when the David beckham debate started once again (for the millionth time on this blog) I had an inkling where this was going to end.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:01
@CraigMc: Mate in fairness bro you go ape shit when anyone has a pop at Nani
January 7th, 2010 at 19:08
@Red Ranter: From where I sit I kind of think Craig is responding more to your reply about Becks to me, rather than him. You made comments like
“The proof is in the results” Like I said earlier RR, we sucked for three seasons after Becks left. When exactly did we ever suck when he was playing for us?
“So Fergie was right to let him go.”
Based on what criteria? Ws he washed up, did his crossing and set piece skills elude him. Ws he any less a leader or a captain? Did his loyalty to the team diminish?
“it’s incredibly naive to think Fergie was the sole culprit in the Beckham transfer. Becks had at least 40% say in moving to Madrid.” In the years I have been on this blog, never have I accused you of being so blatantly wrong and it is you who is very naive regarding that event. Fergie himself has come out and said he handled the whole thing wrong and his shoe kicking tantrum was a freaky accident but a mistake regardless of whether it hit Becks or not. Fergie let his personal bias and feelings about the man’s personal life affect his decisions. Becks had a period where he had a few subpar games and the first leg of the CL clash with Madrid where Becks played poorly was the final straw. Now consider how many poor performance in a row many of our current players offer up and yet they get nothing like what Becks got from the Boss. And when you consider what Beckham had done for the team compared to Anderson, Berbatov, Park and many others, I would say his reaction and treatment of Beckham was not only unfair and cruel, but premeditaed and unjust. Fergie let his old fashioned values and thinking force himself into turning on a great player and loyal servant.
The only part Beckham played in his moving was that he demanded that if he be moved, it should be to Real Madrid or at least out of England because he could not stomach playing for another English team and constantly facing his beloved United.
“I’ve moved on ages ago to still weep over his every performance. Past is past, and the results have proved that Fergie certainly wasn’t wrong in shipping him.”
That is a part of your personality that is definitely contrary to me mate. Although I respect your right to be the way you are, I respect and honor the past and I am not one who just moves on with life. We all learn from our mistakes but we always learn by remembering history and remembering and honoring those from the past who influenced us or honored us with their service. Too many people today only look at the present and the future and have no time for the past or do they bother to learn from it. You are a bright intelligent man RR, but your unwillingness to hold onto the past is not a positive trait in my opinion. Living in the past is not a good thing and it’s something I am very personally guilty of, but ignoring or just sloughing off the past because all one cares about is what is to come is also wrong. Past is not past. PAST IS PROLOGUE. We learn from our past and we must realize that the past has much to do with our present and future. And the poor treatment and lack of disrespect towards Beckham has come back to haunt Fergie and the team in more ways than one.
He will be returning in February as the enemy. His departure opened up many questions about how Fergie deals with players and subsequent departures all brought up alarms and questions. You say you respect Beckham, will I have respectfully disagree with you. It’s similar to the way young people today have not time or respect for honoring the dead of previous wars. There was a time when everything was closed on Remembrance Day. Now we cannot be bothered to close down and honor those who sacrificed so much for our freedoms and privilege to so disrespect them today. One must never forget our warriors whether on the battlefield or on the football field. History and respect for our past legends is what makes our team so great. So please mate, refrain from the past is past comments. Past is never past. It’s part of who we are and what United is and always will be.
I have a pet peeve that reminds me of your comments regarding Beckham. It’s similar to those who buy a video game and play it for hours until the next game comes along and they put the game they were playing on the shelf never to play it again. Did it suck? No, it’s just that people are so easily swayed with the next best thing that they are never willing to go back and reexamine or reacquaint themselves with something old but still great. Some people are like sharks. They have to keep moving forward or they die. I like to take pride in the fact that I like looking back a lot before I move forward because I think it’s a great idea to mark your trail in life and remember where you came from, not just where you are going. I know, really deep philosophical BS when all we are talking about is Beckham, but I just hate it when he gets dissed or forgotten by the present generation of fans who have tunnel vision and short attention spans and even shorter memories.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:19
@Stephen: Not for a long time mate, and I apologised to those I did go ape shit with, so that’s AN OLD CHESTNUT to bring up Staphen
. I got very mellow since my little girl came into my life – I mean its not like we are losing life or limb is it – like those poor gits fighting for us in Afghanistan? Anyway Bro – RR can fight his own battles! 
January 7th, 2010 at 19:21
@donibrasco: And Fergie has never made mistakes right? He made mistakes with Beckham before he left and has made tons of them since. Beckham was a great servant and he should have been given the same fair amount of time to get out of his slump the way Fergie has given Berbatov, Rooney, Park, Anderson, gIGGS, Scholes and others who have gone into prolonged slumps during their careers but were allowed time to play themselves out of it. And in the cases of Berba, Anderson and Park, they never have played out of those slumps. So why such a short hair trigger period for Beckham? Why give others like Anderson three years to get out of a slump but not give Beckham even a half dozen games? Why does he tolerate game after game poor performances from the likes of Neville and Scholes but when Beckham had three bad games, Ole took over for him on the right side? It’s BS and it was a personal bias by the Boss. He was hardly fair or patient with a player that had given him a decade of reasons to be patient.
And as for Ballack, do you even watch Chelsea games mate? Becuase if you did you would notice that Ballack is playing a very deep DMF role these days and his runs forward are not as plentiful as they are with Germany. He is getting older and Chelsea still have Lampard as their AMF. For a DMF, Ballack is having a good season and Ancelotti is more than pleased with him. So really, I do not see your point or comparison since Anderson does not play a defensive midfield role.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:22
@CraigMc: Fair enough matey, sooner our boys are out there the better I must say.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:23
@Red Ranter: We’re cool yes
January 7th, 2010 at 19:26
@Stephen: I want them all home LIKE NOW Stephen. One of my Bro’s best mates is out their fighting, and he is so fucking heroic mate, as they all are! Although I feel for the Afghans too, I mean that country never seems to get any rest from war!
January 7th, 2010 at 19:26
@Red Ranter: I’m sorry mate but I just frakken hate that kind of attitude. “Shit happens so just move on”. Man that is just so wrong and it’s what is wrong with this society in so many areas. Sorry mate, but I just hate that kind of mentality. Shit happen, you don’t move on. You try to make it better then you move on. This i cannot be bothered attitude people have just offends my sensibilities. It’s why I hate the way some people act and talk over the Internet. There are no ramifications for their actions and so they lode their good manners and sensibilities when it comes to reacting and conversing with people. No patience and tolerance for anything, so lets just forget about him or her and move on because I just can’t be bothered to give a fuck?
Sad for you mate, sad for you. Sorry.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:29
@Red Ranter: And are you insinuating or accusing me of not moving on to other topics? Christ mate, go read all my entries over the past few days. I certainly cannot be accused of sticking to one thing only as I have added more than one spice to the soup. But I also made my case for Beckham and defended him against you and those who say the respect him but who clearly don’t or cannot be bothered to remember or appreciate his contributions to this team, despite the fact you say you do.
And I have called Fergie a twat for a lot more reasons than just Beckham, in case you have forgotten.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:31
@Grognard: Because Becks was Goldenballs and SAF didn’t like it
January 7th, 2010 at 19:31
Beckham went downhill since leaving us so on that point Fergie sold him in his prime and got a good sum of money for him. His sale did not have a major impact on our team. At that time in history our problem was defence…we had no problems scoring goals even without Beckham. Ronaldo also proved to be a more than adequate replacement. Even if Beckham was still at the club, he would not be all that much use in the present team because he is well past his prime and better suited to the slower Italian league.
We blamed Fergie for not spending the Glazer money. But it would seem now that the money was not available and he is just trying not to rock the boat. If he spoke out and criticised the chairmen it would just cause more problems. So he is just keeping United afloat in the hope the situation will improve.
We have to remember that we are in a global recession. Before the recession we were not starved for cash. Rather Fergie wasted the large transfer budgets he was handed by overpaying for players like Hargo, Berbatov, Anderson and Nani who aren’t even regular first team players. Other clubs are also feeling the financial squeeze.
If we finish in the top 4 and make the Champions League quarter finals that will be a more than satisfactory season considering the weakness of our squad, the injury problems that always seem to hit our defence and the impact of losing the best player in the world.
I hate Fergie’s tactics but we are doing much better than I expected this season.
But Fergie’s judgement in the transfer market has been seriously impaired and the fact is when we do eventually get some money out of the Glazer’s we need a clearout. That job should be given to the next manager who will be around to build a new team. When that happens I want us to get rid of Anderson, Nani, Berbatov, Tosic, Welbeck, Gibson and put Scholes, Giggs and Neville out to pasture. Then use the £30-40 million raised plus another £30 million or so to buy three quality players who would slot into our first team.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:31
@CraigMc: All the best to him mate, jeez feckin hero mate.
January 7th, 2010 at 19:33
@NicoQB: He’s very good but young and still has some maturing to do but has great desire and creative skill and is Ballack’s future replacement with Germany. But forget about him for United because he is German and Germans do not turn Fergie on.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:01
@CraigMc: Well said. Becks was treated appallingly and that is the core reason as to why many like you and me do not forget so easily and continue to bring up his name. But I should correct you on one thing. Becks was long gone before Fergie got wind of Ronaldo. Ronaldo was just a blessing from the from the footy gods to help us forget. But as great as Ronaldo became, I for one have never forgotten Beckham and I amount one to dismiss and forget about our past greats because I am more concerned with our present players.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:04
Everyone saw this coming since day one. So, how did the FA and FIFA (if they had any involvement) allow the Glazers to take over while knowing that it would leave United in debt? Also, I think that England should have adopted the same rule as France where the owners have to be French (I am not English, btw). I hate seeing all these billionaires using English clubs as their own little “real-life” Football Manager toys.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:05
@Stephen: It’s not about whether Keano could move or play. It’s about respecting what he meant to the club and to the supporters. He should never have been kicked out on his ass like that. Regardless of what he said about the team to the media, he was our captain and proud one at that. What he said about the team was honest and true and as a captain, he had the right to do so. Perhaps he shouldn’t have done it but it was a small thing to weigh up against his incredible years of service. Fergie stabbed him in the back by forcing him to leave.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:17
@Red Ranter: The fact that Fergie has made many many great decisions during his tenure does not dismiss his mistakes mate. He has been wrong but one thing that is often ignored in all this is that when he makes a decision on player right or wrong, that decision does not just have an impact on the club, it has an impact on the supporters. It’s like buying a can of soup that you love and that is a staple and then one day opening the can to realize that the recipe has changed and it’s not as good as before. Sometimes it might be better but the point is that supporters do not always like changes, even though they are inevitable. We are all loyal to certain things in our life and these are not debatable. A manager needs to think twice when it comes to setting a legend adrift. Fergie seems to not have a problem with that and for me that is a major character flaw. It’s one thing to realize a player is done, but it’s another thing for him to be done and to literally be kicked out of the OT gates in a very rude and unceremonious manner, which is what Fergie has become famous for. It’s cold, cruel and incredibly disrespectful to not only the player, but to his many supporters. I don’t share that kind of thinking and I am generally a warm and caring person to all who are around me and especially to people who were under my employment. I have had to fire soem and in so doing, I generally nudged them out the door and never embarrassed them or made them feel like shit other than notifying them that I no longer could employ them. There are right and wrong ways of doing things. Lets just say that when it comes to Beckham, Keane, Stam, RVN and some others, the reason for getting rid of them may have been legit, but the manner in which it was carried out, was not only wrong, but has left many like me with a very bitter taste in our mouths. And that is the whole point. Supporters forgive, but they never forget.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:23
@Red Ranter: I fully understood what you meant mate. You are wrong when you think a term like “move on” does not mean the very same thing as “forget”. It’s just a little bit more PC. I understand what you were trying to convey but it still smelled of disrespect and a lack of appreciation for Beckham because you were backing Fergie through it and I’m sorry mate, but Fergie was 100% in the way he handled the situation. Beckham may have been past his best, but like Neville, Giggs and Scholes, he deserved a better exit strategy than a hairdryer treatment and a shoe being kicked at him. Bad behavior is bad behavior.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:27
@Red Ranter: “there was strong evidence that Beckham was equally at fault much before the boot incident with Fergie.” Please enlighten us with this evidence. I fail to see anything that Beckham did other than his lifestyle just rubbed Fergie wrong. The guy never missed training, never stopped working hard and never showed signs where his focus was off other than the time his son was ill and wanted to leave to be with him. That bothered Fergie. Not surprising since Fergie has given very little time to his own family in the last 30 years. Maybe family is second to Fergie, but it isn’t second to most normal thinking people on the planet. His attitude is a joke and it’s completely totalitarian.
January 7th, 2010 at 20:31
@CraigMc: Isn’t he?
Hey he is entitled to a bad day. God knows I am not in the best of moods of late and I wrongfully took my wrath out on a bloke the other day on this blog just because I was having a bad day due to my mother’s diminishing health. RR is a gentleman and a scholar so it does surprise even me when he shows a little temper and frustration. 
January 7th, 2010 at 21:11
@Red Ranter: So please tell me, when his move to Milan is relevant news, why is talking about him on a Manchester United blog off limits or discouraged by you? He was and is a big part of United’s history and a player millions of United fans remember, love and respect. You shouldn’t throw your personal lack of concern or interest in him in our faces if some of us want to talk about him for millionth time. Hell if that’s the case I would kindly ask all on this blog to refrain from talking about park and Anderson because reading about them nauseates me and bores me. Don’t stifle our right to rant about a United relevant topic mate, just because it doesn’t suit your fancy or where your viewpoint is not the popular one. I mean all that in the most respectful manner possible.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:12
@CraigMc:
January 7th, 2010 at 21:12
Any hope of January signing as i am hoeless.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:14
@Grognard: Beckham is all time world best,no doubt
January 7th, 2010 at 21:15
@colver: Fergie was probably right to sell him due to his diminishing skills but he was dead wrong in the way he went about it and he was wrong for the reasons he made the decision to get rid of him. Why hasn’t he done the same to Neville, Scholes and Giggs? They all have suffered major drops in skill over the past 5 seasons. Why weren’t they all shown the door in a manner similar to Becks? Because with Fergie it was a personal and not professional issue. And that’s where he was wrong and why I took great offense to the actions.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:36
@Grognard: I qualified that with this @gator: im not letting them off
January 7th, 2010 at 21:45
@Grognard: Re: evidence. Sit back and read the following. These are sequence of events well under his control and if he loved United so badly, he could have compromised. These events have convinced me that Beckham wasn’t a saint either. Hence my 60:40 split (ie, 60% Fergie and 40% Beckham) Read on… I don’t expect you to agree, but I’ve seen enough of the whole saga and have been hardened over the past 6 years to see anything else. And I firmly believe my stance is quite reasonable. Also let me remind you that he is a United legend in my books, my only contention is that he also had a significant part of the blame in his move to Real which sort of diminished him. He won’t be on the same page as Cantona or Giggs to me.
Beckham left United in 2003. But in my opinion, the seeds of discontent between Fergie and Beckham were sown much before the boot flinging incident.
2001 was when they started negotiating a contract extension. And he left for Madrid in 2003. During those 18 months there was a lot of to-and-fro in contract negotiations. Which is expected. There were several contract offers on the table but Beckham continued to reject a lot of them. When finally the terms were agreed, he stalled over his image rights. And I quote Beckham from a BBC article: “The negotiations have been going well and it has been going on for quite a while. It’s not the salary that’s a problem, that was sorted out in September. It’s just the image rights that needed a little perking.”
I believe United wanted a bigger cut from his image rights than Beckham was willing to concede. It was a difference of 5m pounds over a period of 4-5 years. I am not sure of the exact numbers. Beckham was stalling over image rights when almost the rest of his peers from the academy: Scholes, Neville brothers, Giggsy etc used to sign at the blink of an eye.
Now Beckham was entitled to demand what he thought was right. But if he was the United fan he always claimed to be and felt so much love for the club and planned to be a Maldini, then that 5m is chump change considering his love for the club. Remember contract negotiations are done between him and the club’s executives (and not the manager)
Ferguson till then was used to players of the old school variety. Those who weren’t really caught up in the celebrity lifestyle and culture. If we had a Beckham like player today, Ferguson would have been more forgiving. But Becks then was the first real glamour icon of the modern era.
Needless to say there was this clash of generations that caused the rift. The boot incident did unreparable damage to their relations — and was the tipping point to the end. But Ferguson was frustrated at the time Beckham took to sign the dotted line and began to fear Becks had started to believe his celebrity. Indeed, Posh Spice was another distasteful element in his mind — although that isn’t Beckham’s fault.
I would have not apportioned even 40% blame on Beckham had his reps not got on the case and went on a PR crusade saying he always wanted to stay with us and he was booted out against his will. I found his posturing dishonest.
You don’t have to agree with me on this. That’s fine. I regard Beckham highly as a player for what he gave to us on the pitch — and I look back fondly on those days. But I see a difference between looking back fondly on the great moments to cherish AND dwelling on the past and feeling miserable. There is a big difference between that. You’ve chosen the latter, although you’ve built it up to being something noble. (You also applied it to real life but in real life if something happens to me, I don’t move on like nothing happened. I try to learn from my mistakes and move on. But I don’t let failures affect me by dwelling on my ruts or my laurels. So it is a positive trait. But this is David Beckham’s life with United we’re talking about. And as much as a fan I am, I am alert to drawing a line between life and that. What am I going to learn by looking back at 2003 every time Beckham scores a freekick for Milan? How is it going to enrich my life? It’s six years already! Also, he’s not some soldier who’s fighting a war — in any case if a soldier fights a war and defects to an enemy camp he’ll get little sympathy; that’s a better analogy.)
I am quite convinced of my position on David Beckham. You are unlikely to change your stance too. You asked me for evidence, I spelled out the whole sequence of events. I am not debating this anymore because I see only deadlock.
PS: For what it’s worth, the only reason I’m pissed off at the Beckham sale was I thought we sold him far too cheaply.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:47
@Grognard: “Let me remind everyone that Tampa Bay has not had a big name skilled player on that team in over ten years.”
Dude he had the bucs since 95 and spent alot of $$ on them new everything changed the uniform and insignia. built a great team, won a lot of conference championships and won the superbowl in 02.
it wasnt until ‘03 when he purchased my other football team across the pond and proceed to win up everything europe had to offer with United that the fire sale at Tampa Bay began.
It is understood to Bucs fans that all of the Glazer cash and attention has gone to Manchester. As the Buccaneers have the lowest player wages in the league and come nowhere near their salary cap.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:49
@Grognard: I didn’t stifle. It’s just boring to talk about it again, and again and again and again and again and again and again.
And again…
Not a big fan of redundancy and especially spilt milk.
It’s not off limits. If it was I would have deleted comments.
But hey, if you want to vent feel free.
PS: Becks to Milan is relevant news but not worthy of an entire thread on a United blog. Otherwise we should have entire threads dedicated to Keane at Ipswich Bruce at Sunderland, and what Robson had for tea today.
January 7th, 2010 at 21:50
@owen: and douglas cost is at shakhtar for 12m euro
united tax is real
January 7th, 2010 at 21:57
@Grognard: Ill say this of his experiment with the Galaxy. The average American soccer fan is now interested in world football and not just the world cup. This wasn’t all up to him coming to the US but may have been the straw that broke the camels back.
I now have friends everywhere here that 2-3 yrs ago would roll their eyes when i would talk about United, now they call me up after matches and talk about the game and are trying to learn as much as they can.
I think a mix of Beckham to la and FIFA 9now10 on playstation 3 have given the US soccer fan a gramar school diploma if you will in world football. still room to go but its a big step.
January 7th, 2010 at 22:00
@NicoQB: we should put a wig on wellbeck and sind him
January 7th, 2010 at 22:09
@Stephen: but they are still getting games…
January 7th, 2010 at 22:14
@owen: Yea Hargo and Diuf
January 7th, 2010 at 22:26
@Red Ranter: That is actually wrong. I believe Anderson one day can become world class. But that is just hope, and for the future. To be honest I think he is missing some of the basics for a football player. He can`t shoot, he seems to have difficulties hitting long range passes with the top of his boot ala Scholes or Carrick, he doesn`t have the right fundamental body poisture to tackle and he is a confidence player. These are all basics which is lacks in his game. He can dribble, he has a good touch, he is strong and he has good vision. I`ll give him that. And to be honest, he has a good footballing brain, which I feel people don`t give him credit for. But like I said, he lacks the basics. At the start of the season I saw some improvement in his game, it looked like he had seriously been working on the his abilities. But as the season has progressed, he has only become worse and worse. At least in my eyes. And to be honest, the skills he lacks are actually just basics! If he puts some serious work into improving those parts of his game, I feel he can become a great player. But that is if, and only IF, he decides to make an effort to becmoe great. He can work on shooting, just stay on the field practicing more. Make your body used to it. Passing as well, he has to start swinging his leg correctly so that he can add another dimension to his game, hitting the ball with the top of the boot. He does that very rarely, but when he does he does something well. Against Spurs he scored that way, and many of his passes when getting that leg swing right fools opponents. But as the season has progressed, this has just happen rarer and rarer, and that is because he must have thought that when he had done it for two or three games in a row, he had obtained that skill. But he must work, and work, and work, and work.
And as for tackling, it`s not that difficult to learn! He just rushes into opponents now, being careless. I see him many times, he rushes into a tackle and is beaten. He must show the opponent one side, give him no other chance than to go that way. He is fast as fuck, so there is no reason for him to get beaten if he just manages this easy skill. He just has to show him the outside, pressing him out, instead of hus lumping in like a fool. You haven`t won the ball until you have actually won the ball mate!
To be honest, I`ve practically given up on Anderson.
Whenever I see some improvement by him, I see him fuck up for the next game. He just doesn`t look like giving a fuck, and that more than anything makes me love faith in him. Fucks sake, Fletcher was a worse footballplayer than my diabetic, 72 year old uncle just 5 years ago! Look at him now! It`s not mainly because of his skill assets, because he is not born with talent, far away from it. But he has worked hard. No player in the world can become great, even “good”, if you don`t make an effort. Fletcher has worked on everything in his game, absolutely everything and it has given results. I respect the lad, because he fought for his place and won it when nobody in the world were expecting him too. Well, maybe just Fergie, but I still think that for whatever faith Fergie put in him, it was Fletcher hard work which has put him in the position he is right now. And if Andy doesn`t start working on the fucking basics of football, well, then he could just fuck off to whatever place suits him, possibly a job in McDonalds. I hate players who don`t give a shit…
January 7th, 2010 at 22:27
@gator: actually I read from other multiple sources that it is just €6.5mil. Compare that to the €20mil quoted for United and you understand where Fergie is coming from when he talks about lack of value.
January 7th, 2010 at 22:32
@Red Ranter: RR, I completely agree there. It’s easy to blame Fergie but Beckham had as much hand in his departure as Fergie did. That does not prevent Beckham from being a legend for United because he definitely is and neither does it prevent Fergie from looking the culprit, cause that boot didn’t kick itself
. Anyways, I don’t know why Beckham’s departure is being used as a stick to beat Fergie with, it’s not like we were not extremely successful after he left!!??
January 7th, 2010 at 22:38
@Stephen: Mate, he was scouted by Arsenal, Barca and Inter along with us. Not giving him game time would be a crime, because at the moment he is better than all of our forwards, except Rooney. If this guy doesn`t make it with us, I blame Fergie and only Fergie. This guy is mint mate, trust me, when you see him you are gonna realise what I`m talking about. Yes, the Norwegian League is shit compared to the English, but, a players skill should not be judged on his team mates. He played for Molde, to be honest a shit club in my, but he is a clever fuck. Trust me, if he had a competent, I`m not even saying brilliant, if he just had a COMPETENT midfielder in his team he would have scored at least twice the amount of goals he did. For a striker, off the ball movements is more vital that on the ball. And he has a brain that no-one else of our current strikers have! His mentality of being a forward is the correct one, making clever runs behind the defender and tricking him by circling around him. He makes himself available very often, but unlike Berba he doesn`t need the ball at his feet, he actually prefers to get it behind the defender so he can use his speed and be one on one with the keeper. He is the fastest player I`ve seen in Norway for years, and he is also strong like a bull. And, he is not afraid getting stuck in. And I don’t only mean on the ground, in the air as well where I think we will see the biggest difference. I don`t wanna put more pressure on him than he already has, it must be difficult to come from a nobody like Molde to a giant club like United. But I have to be honest, and this player is mint!
January 7th, 2010 at 22:40
LOL, on Facebook, Diouf is a member of the group “For those of us who believe John Terry has an inwards dick!”
LEGEND!
January 7th, 2010 at 22:42
@Footy4Eddy: Are you sure it’s a real profile of Diouf or just a fan page?
January 7th, 2010 at 22:47
@CraigMc: I`m not so sure about that. I don`t expect Diouf to hammer in goals in his first few games, because this team has to get used to a striker making some CLEVER RUNS for a change. Diouf`s style of play will be different than what we have previously seen with Wazza and Berba, because unlike them he is more interested in scoring than to be a playmaker or tackle opponents in your own half. I think people will have to be a little patient with Mame, and look at his playing style more than his effect on the team right away. Try noticing his clever runs, his good positioning and his strength and speed. Because I don`t believe our inept midfielders will manage to notice his moves until they have had a chance to blend. Be patient, give him 5-10 games to make him confortable in the side and he will provide.
January 7th, 2010 at 22:50
@Red Ranter: It`s real, I`ve got him as a friend and there are personal pics of him with his girlfriend, put out by her. And one of my mates who know him for real has him as a friend there, so yeah, it`s real.
January 7th, 2010 at 22:51
@Red Ranter: here you go mate: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/mamebiram?ref=ts
January 7th, 2010 at 23:01
On the topic, I feel there are a couple of factors we are ignoring here:
The debts that have the ridiculous interests (PIK’s) are in the glazer’s name, not United’s. Besides, the only reason they took them was because revenue from their investments was more than the interest payments. As far as they continue to service the debts as they have done, and provide money for transfers, as they have done, there won’t be a problem. Even if it comes to the point where they can’t pay the debts anymore (unlikely), they can just refloat the club into the stock market and make a huge profit while paying off the debt as we are valued at over £1.3billion. Although, I don’t think it will come to this, which is why they are trying to issue that bond as it will stabilise the annual debt and prevent it from rising.
Plus, there is no way we are doing a leeds, as they never made profits – which we do every year – hence had no value as a business. Also, that is why we will never witness a firesale of the club’s assets, as the tangible assets are worth considerably less more than the club’s value and will make no business sense.
Honestly, we could be in a better situation but the problem started when we didn’t place any preventive measures from allowing anyone to stage a hostile takeover. At this point, it is looking like the glazers would not sell and I feel they would have to reconsider their stance only when the profits made by United are not enough to cover the debts and interest payments. In that scenario, they can refloat the stock, hence pay off the debt and still make a profit or sell to a rich philantrophist and still make a profit. Although, I would prefer they refloat as I would not like United to be in the control of any random billionaire, or worse, consortium. Long story short, United cannot and will not crumble.
January 7th, 2010 at 23:25
@Footy4Eddy: Give him Lil Man Nani – he will provide for him as he did for CR7
.
January 7th, 2010 at 23:25
@Gabriel: dig it, chelscum and manshitty just got rid of their debts but nether are making the profit United are, shitty aren’t making any yet due to player wages. and if chealsas transfer ban sticks we wont have to worry abt keeping up with them.
January 7th, 2010 at 23:35
@Red Ranter: The other players all used to sign at the blink of an eye yes, but that was because their image rights were minscule in comparison with Beckham’s megabucks image rights. That is something that cannot be denied mate!
January 7th, 2010 at 23:39
@Grognard: I already told you why Grog, because Goldenballs image was so far superior to SAFs and SAF’s ego couldn’t tolerate that. SAF’s words “Manchester United is becoming associated always with the name Beckham, and not Manchester United.” So bloody what I say – Fergie envious GIT!
January 7th, 2010 at 23:40
@CraigMc: Yes but if he was a bleeding heart United fan as he claimed he would have compromised on the 5m pounds. It’s not like the club was denying him his rights. United didn’t get him for his name, he was brought through the academy and was made at United. I didn’t see what the problem was with the club looking to make a little money off the player that made his name at the club. In fact, Real bought him for his commodity value.
If he was such a big fan as he claimed he wouldn’t spend 18 months haggling over image rights.
January 7th, 2010 at 23:41
By the way Grog – Capello didn’t recognise the great contribution Beckham brought to Real Madrid until he dropped him and got ready like Fergie to ship him out. He quickly backed down though, and had to acknowledge Becks contribution, and unlike proud Fergie, Capello apologised! He has humility you see!
January 7th, 2010 at 23:43
@Red Ranter: That’s true, but they sold more and made more on Becks name than anyone elses
. Hundred times more in fact!
January 7th, 2010 at 23:45
@Red Ranter: Anyway RR, don’t you think it hyper feckin critical that the club disapproved of Beckhams off the field image money making, and yet wanted a bigger share of it – HYPOCRITS to the total extreme!
January 7th, 2010 at 23:51
@Grognard:
oops sorry mate, I wrote the wrong name – I meant Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuud not Ronnie 
.
January 7th, 2010 at 23:57
That’s it.
Vidic will probably be leaving, not this season, but in the next one.
Have players never learned?
Established United players have never left to go on to better things in another team.
He could have been a legend…
January 8th, 2010 at 0:02
@Red Ranter: I agree with you
Loved Becks, but we have moved on. You can`t look back on the past if it doesn`t help you advance for the future. You gotta look ahead, and I don`t see how Becks is relevant to that. We sold him, we got Ronnie, and there! Best player to have played for United since George Best. Think it was a good move, and it certanly didn`t make this side worse. Becks was on the down, Ronaldo was only gonna get better. Now, Ronaldo has left and I don`t bother discussing him anymore. Yes, I loved him and I still respect him but I don`t care what he does these days, he is a former United player playing for Real Madrid. There, he left, we move on. Not gonna get him back, not gonna make a difference discussing getting him back or saying it was an error selling him. Who knows, maybe one day we will have our hands on an even better player than Ronaldo? Not likely, but in these days know knows what might happen? What we have to do is though looking ahead, remember the past but don`t dwell on it too much as it gives us fuck all!
January 8th, 2010 at 0:08
@gator: yeah, what both owners did was debt swapping, the equivalent of moving money from your left pocket to the right. In the case of City, turning debt into equity and chelsea, debt into shares. If they don’t start making profits soon, the owners will not be so willing to cling on as all they will be doing is continually investing without any return. This is why they are being ruthless in their goal achievement (see sacking of hughes at city and repeated sackings of managers at chelski).
Honestly, chelski are getting close to making profits but their stadium is too small (despite the extortionate ticket prices) and they are still not as marketable a brand as the other giants of football. Man City on the other hand can’t still fill their stadium and have almost next to nothing marketability which is why the owners are desperate for immediate success which will bring both tv and prize money; the only source of revenue they can acheive right now.
Honestly, if the glazers can get this bond thing to work and we have a fixed annual debt, it would be okay, not ideal, but okay.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:10
@CraigMc: How so? Ferguson disapproved of Beckham’s off field antics. Not the club and its executives. The club would have loved such a world superstar. All clubs love that.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:10
@Footy4Eddy: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah – so we should forget Eric Cantona, Robson, Brucie, CR7, Keano, Charlton, Best, Law, all our fabulous ex players who loved the club and gave there all. What rubbish mate!
January 8th, 2010 at 0:12
@NicoQB: It`s the days we live in mate, get used to it. I have, I don`t care whether Vidic leaves or what not, his and Sir Alex decision. If a player leaves, there is a reason behind it. Moving from one club to another is not easy by any means, so there is a pretty good reason behind it. And I honestly gotta say, I don`t think it’s the wheather which makes him leave. I don’t know what, but it certanly isn’t the wheather! Nobody is that dumb…
People seem to forget that as fans, we know fuck all about what happens inside the dressing room. Some players might have beef, personal issues, dreams, disagreements, wrong personalities or are just not prepared to deal with the pressure or fame you get at United. It could be everything, so I won’t call any player who leaves a club a cunt. Ronaldo had his reasons, Tevez had his, Becks, Stam, Keano, Ruud, Cantona etc.etc. We only know what is visible to the eye, believe what we read and trust wankers who just wanna make some bucks putting out fake rumours and stuff. I understand Ronaldo, I understand Tevez, and I will understand it if Vidic wants to leave as well. Won’t blame him, he has his reasons and we as fans should just deal with it. He has given his all for this shirt, and even though I hope he still will give his heart for this shirt, it`s not something I expect. Sometimes, we just gotta be more understanding and realistic in what happens. It`s life these days, the sooner you get used to it the better.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:12
@Red Ranter: I distictly remember Peter Kenyon and other club hierarchy at the time saying they agreed with SAF about Becks off the field huge media profile, and huge demand for him image wise!
January 8th, 2010 at 0:19
RedRanter – you sure seem to be losing this whole we don’t want another thread debating Beckham – cos that is exactly what folk are talking about mostly in this thread
. I would have dropped it long ago, but others have taken up the debating. One thing great about this blog, you certainly haven’t got a blog of blind leader following sheep. Something you can be proud of RR 
.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:19
@CraigMc: Who the fuck said anything about forgetting?
I said we should remember them, but not dwell on the past if you don’t gain anything by doing so. I respect them, I remember them, I loved them and I will never forget what they did for this club. But, that’s as far as it goes mate, I won`t put them above the club or the manager. And I certanly won’t give anybody the blame for a player leaving. Things which we don’t see happens, we just know what we hear or read. Thoughts and mentalities are different everywhere we go, some are more faithful than others and some have different views than us. I don`t expect everybody to understand my decisions, but it certanly would be great. 
Becks and Fergie had their reasons for him leaving, I`m fine with it. I may not understand it, but I will respect it because there is a reason for everything.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:22
I have a hairy asshole!
Now, lets move onto other things, Beckham is bothering the crap out of me!
I gotta say I’m surprised nobody even bothered commenting about my rant of Anderson, actually expected it to get a little attention because… Well, you know me and Ando! 
January 8th, 2010 at 0:24
@Footy4Eddy: Yeah mate, and that reason is Fergie’s kicking someones arse out the door everytime they fall foul of him. Your not one of the denialists on that are you Bro? Keano said that was what SAF did to Becks, Ruud, Big Jaap Stam, and Keano himself. So I know who I believe – besides it well bloody known amongst Fans and media, so why should we deny it and exonerate Fergie?
January 8th, 2010 at 0:27
@Footy4Eddy: Well I’d rather talk Becks than your hairy arsehole Eddi, because said hairy arsehole cannot pass the ball with the same aplomb as Becks. Not unless it has a lot of gassy wind coming out of it that is
January 8th, 2010 at 0:33
@CraigMc: With the beard Becks has these days, I thought you`d put more emphasis on the hairy part rather than the asshole. But thanks anyway!
January 8th, 2010 at 0:40
@CraigMc: Fergie has his reasons. I`m not saying he is right or wrong, to be honest none of us are. I don`t have to like his decision to respect it, if he feels it`s for the better of the club then fine with me! He is the boss, and he has done more for us than anybody else could have ever done. If he has a good enough reason to get rid of a player, then okey, I may not like it but I will understand him. People fuck up even if they don`t see it themselves, it`s not human to expect perfection from anybody. I have got a few things against Fergie, but I trust him and in the end we just gotta think about what is best for the club. I wanna stand up for him, yes. But I will also criticise him if I feel it`s in its place to do so. On this occasion, I just think that we should accept what happend because it`s a long time ago and while we hear the occasional “his fault” from either side, I guess they both had their reasons.
Let`s just leave it to that at the moment…
January 8th, 2010 at 0:41
@CraigMc: I think privately Kenyon and co would have loved Beckham’s profile. Only Ferguson had a problem with that. And when Ferguson speaks, people listen.
Obviously, if they had to choose between Fergie and Becks, they’d go with Fergie for sure.
January 8th, 2010 at 0:42
Okey, that last post was a little messy but I think I made my point clear. It`s late, I`m tired after working out for 4 hours and I`ve got school tomorrow. Night lads!
January 8th, 2010 at 1:35
@Red Ranter: Now that was a fairly long reply for you RR and I thank you for the effort. I did however expect to find a real case for your position within all that writing but unfortunately I didn’t. In fact I think you made more of a case for me by pointing out the bridge or clash in generations and the fact is Fergie was living and seeing things from the Jurassic period I believe.
I’m stuck with one comment you made and I quote; “Beckham was stalling over image rights when almost the rest of his peers from the academy: Scholes, Neville brothers, Giggsy etc used to sign at the blink of an eye.” Now forgive me mate but I have to have a hardy laugh at that one.
DUH! I guess he would stall over image rights considering he adorns fashion magazine’s and is a fashion plate celebrity that far exceeds what he does on the football field. His image and the value of his image has very little if anything to do with football. It has to do with the celebrity status he has achieved by being a good looking athlete who hooked up with a pop culture icon and a Spice Girl. Trust me, if Franck Ribery hooked up with Posh nobody would be seeing him on magazine covers or any tv shows and fashion shows, believe me. Beckham owns nothing to United regarding his image because United never chiseled and created his good looks and they never chose his wife or lifestyle for him. All they have a right to is his jersey. Your argument only proved how wrong and how greedy United were to squabble with him over 5% of money that they had no right to go after. I seriously doubt Neville or Scholes would have to worry about their image rights considering one looks like Alfred E Newman and the other one like Franck Ribery.
So why do I continue to go back to Beckham and I why do I hold such bitterness regarding his leaving the team while you are willing to move forward and forget? Because there is nothing I hate more in this world than injustice. I especially hate the big bully corporations picking on the little guy. Now Becks might not be the little guy but from where I stand, he did very little wrong and I still do not understand what your argument is regarding his wanting to go to Real Madrid? He was not obligated to make it easy for Fergie and Fergie was the one who acted spiteful and even childish. I don’t know if you have ever written Beckham’s biography but he pretty well describes what happened and as far as I see, he is the innocent even though I realize that is his side of the story. Fact is Fergie never came out panned the book nor has he written or given interviews where he was willing to give a thorough explanation of what really happened. All he did was make light of the boot incident and claimed it was an accident because it was a 1000 to 1 shot. Perhaps but he did in fact kick the boot at him so in my books the odds of causing damage were a bit better than that.
My final comment on this mate is that no manager, coach or owner of a team has the right to meddle in the private business of a player provided that player is not involved in taking drugs, or performing a criminal activity. Who a player marries and how he lives his life away from the ballpark is the player’s business unless there are curfews on road trips. On that basis, Fergie acted terribly and Beckham paid for it dearly. It was unjust and the reason it won’t leave me is because I cannot stomach injustice, especially when it happens to somebody care about. If you think I’m bad about this, you should sit down over a few drinks and let me talk to you about my feeling about the JFK assassination. Now that one really gets me upset. Anyway, thanks for your reply. We definitely disagree on this but as you must know, I respect your opinion even if I sometimes don’t agree with it so I do appreciate the effort.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:41
@gator: Cosmetic stuff mate. When has that team ever had a blue chip quarterback or a blue chip receiver or runningback? Answer is not since way before the Glazer’s took over. They do not spend on players. They spent on jerseys and other cosmetic items in order to increase marketing and merchandising without having to cough up a yearly salary which is what really hurts their extortion efforts. Sorry mate, you ‘re not winning me over on that one. Glazers are scum.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:44
@Red Ranter: I really think you are overreacting because before yesterday, I cannot remember the last time we were all drawn in to a debate about Beckham. Besides it’s highly relevant right now because a big talking piece is Fergie and how he has been acting. It’s fodder for the anti Fergie crowd.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:46
@gator: Now if United wanted Costa so badly, would 12 million have been such a stumbling block? Yet more ammunition and evidence indicating just how skint this club is.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:49
@Footy4Eddy: Great rant Eddy. I concur.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:03
@Red Ranter: Because the 5 million had nothing to do with United and everything to do with his private business dealing and personal life. United were the greedy ones and certainly mate, you are not advocating that the individual should ever cave in to greedy corporations are you. Beckham was not just right, he was 110% right in the way he acted.
RR, tell me would you like it if your current employer demanded you give him a percentage of the profits you make from this blog? They have nothing to do with the blog but you are an employee of theirs after all. Well, don’t they have a right to some money since it’s the money they pay you that helps you afford the time and the extravagance of having a blog??
January 8th, 2010 at 2:04
@Grognard: On Douglas Costa I’m thankful we didn’t buy him because I heard a lot of negative scouting reports on him. And they asked us £18m yet sold him to Shakhtar for 12m. United tax is a bitch.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:09
@CraigMc: I know and I was very impressed with the fact that he realized his mistake and apologized and has done everything since then to be fair to Becks and has also told him what he needs to do to still be a part of England. He is the one that got the ball rolling for him to go to Milan. He felt bad because he blamed himself for Beckham signing with the Galaxy because it came at a time when Becks was on the bench early in his last season for Madrid. Then when he started playing him he realized that the player was far from past it but it was too late to reverse the deal. I read a couple of years ago an article that stated the main reason Capello was axed at Madrid after winning the League had nothing to do with failure in the CL but because of the money Real lost by losing Beckham.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:09
@CraigMc: AYMEN BRO!
January 8th, 2010 at 2:12
@Footy4Eddy: Becks is relevant because it is yet something that uncovers the enigma that is Fergie. It shows just how unfair and uncompromising the old git is and how we can’t trust him as far as we can throw him.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:18
@Footy4Eddy: When you do not learn from the past or take stock from the past by looking back and analyzing it, then you move forward like a blind idiot. Where would society be if we forgot about the war in 1946 and never learned anything from it or studied enough to ensure that we as a people never repeated many of the same horrific mistakes and crimes that were committed. You learn from history mate by going back to it, not by ignoring it and only caring about the now. That’s the history teacher in me talking and that is why I so love talking about football in the past. Because the game back then and it’s players left impressions and memories in me and i carry those with me and cherish them daily. I don’t just take in something and let it dissipate immediately and then move forward like a shark takes in water.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:19
@Footy4Eddy: I commented on it. I liked it. Not so thrilled about your hairy asshole though.
Now you know my pain. How does it feel to waste so much time writing a large interesting rant and then have everyone ignore it because their ADD cannot allow them to get past the second sentence?
January 8th, 2010 at 2:21
@CraigMc: Love and trust Keano. Keano has always been about the ugly truth.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:24
@Red Ranter: HALIFUCKINGLUYA! We agree on something RR. I’ll send out the party invitations.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:26
@Red Ranter: Yes I heard the same thing too. But still, despite the tax, United do not seem to have the ability they used to be able to negotiate a deal that excludes the tax because I think all teams really believe he has at least 60 million to deal with. Until it finally comes out that we are skint, we will be hard pressed to deal with anyone unless they stop taxing us for that myth.
January 8th, 2010 at 5:11
@Red Ranter: Good to see you drawn into a lively discussion, mate.
Your points are well taken with me as I have never been a huge fan of his. Although I don’t disrespect his efforts to wangle more money for himself (after all, who wouldn’t!) it is the core reason of my disdain.
He has PR’d himself back and forth like a whore lifting her skirt on a street corner, ended up in Football oblivion because of it, and is now winking an eye at the new England manager because he’s back in his neighborhood.
Again, I think his best days were over when he left us, and have never really resurfaced apart from some hybrid remnants of his prime. His was a passanger on the England team in ‘06 WC, and is now plying his trade in a team that would might only give the likes of Leyton Orient and such, a run for their money.
As a personality and an ambassador for the 2018 bid, I like him. As a football player I don’t respect him.
January 8th, 2010 at 6:42
@Footy4Eddy: Ewww, gross! Mame is a fan of Brøndby IF… the dirtiest sack of losers in Danish football…. FC København all the way!
January 8th, 2010 at 7:31
Heh.
It seems that it is Neville himself who’s not sure about whether to prolong. He’s been offered a one year extension, but he’s stalling his decision.
I knew it.
January 8th, 2010 at 7:39
@[OPTI]Madschester United:
January 8th, 2010 at 7:48
@Grognard: I look back at the past. But only if it means I earn something from it. Let`s say that I made a big mistakes in the past. Would I forget it? No. I would learn from it and use my experience in the future. Even in football, we can look back on a lot of things but I don’t see the point of it if it`s not relevant or teaches me something. This case doesn’t, because while we are discussing a mistake that Fergie did considering Becks, we got an even better replacement in Ronaldo. Personally, I think it was a good deal. Becks went to the most celebrity packed club in the world, United got the coming best player in the world. Would we have bought him had Becks not been sold? Maybe, but I doubt it. And even if we were gonna buy him, he was never gonna get the same faith or opportunity to prove his worth with Beckham around. Fergie has made some mistakes, but he has made up for them. That`s what matters to me. He sold Becks, we got Ronnie. We sold Kanchelskis and the other big guns and ended up with Becks, Scholes, Neville(s) and even Butt proving to be world class players and a big part of this history. Ruud left, we have won three titles in a row after that and during the first two we were playing some of the best football witnessed at Old Trafford. He sold Stam, we got Rio. If he can come back fit, he is one of the best defenders in the world, and he is our captain. Every human makes mistakes, but it`s how you respond to them which determins your charackter. He improved this club by his sales, so how does that make him a git?
January 8th, 2010 at 7:52
@Grognard: Gonna shave it soon, getting annoying.
Actually it doesn`t matter whether people respond to my comments or what not, if they read it or just manages to understand my main point, I`m fine with it! I may be full of bollocks at times, but there is a reason for it!
If people see things the way I do, I think we would all become better human beings. After all, I am perfect! 
January 8th, 2010 at 7:54
@NicoQB: Most men either think with their brain or their dick. That`s their problem. With Neville, sometimes he looks like he is only able to think with his dick or his heart. Neither helps him here, so if he decides to say no to it then I will give him credit for for once thiking with his brain! Deserves a medal for it!
January 8th, 2010 at 7:58
@Footy4Eddy: He sold Ronaldo and got Valencia.He god rid of Tevez and took Owen.He started with Benzema and got Owen.What about this part???And he was not so keen on Ronaldo.It was the players who forced him .
January 8th, 2010 at 8:02
@Footy4Eddy: And the most funny thing is he has taken Obertan to replace Giggs.What a shame
January 8th, 2010 at 8:04
This Birminghom match will take place or not???What is the expected weather???
Any Prediction
January 8th, 2010 at 8:10
@owen: Well, when he came to Ronaldo it was not as much Fergie wanting to sell him, rather Ronaldo wanting to go to Real. So that`s not his fault, nor decision. As for Tevez, yeah well we got Owen but he has done wonders so far in my opinion. He has done a lot more than I expected of him to be honest. A hat-trick in Germany and a 95th minute winner against our hated rivals ain`t too bad innit? Obertan for the money we got him for is brilliant, I think he was a good signing. If he could learn to cross or/and gain some confidence I think he would be a brilliant player.
January 8th, 2010 at 8:10
@owen: It`s been given a green light
January 8th, 2010 at 8:17
In my opinion, Jack Rodwell would be a good signing
January 8th, 2010 at 9:05
Wayne Rooney new United captain!
January 8th, 2010 at 9:40
Spare me that Beckham talk. He was at United like any other player was and left end of.We have moved on and won more glory especially delivered to us by the new number 7, who did more than what Beckham could only dream doing on the football field.If it was up to me,to choose between the two, it is a no brainer.
Like i said before, his career was going down hill and it showed both at club and international level, and it is no surprise that even in the MLS, people question his professionalism and skill. Fans have begged Capello to include Beckham on the team even when he is in semi retirement in America for the world cup and if he goes it will not be on merit but because he is Becks.
What we should realise is just as foreigners are looked at,Beckham is and has always been a money whore,whose love for football is only secondary. Having such a player who craves for every snap shot in your dressing room as a manager, may not be the best idea and i thought in Spain, he was humbled having to play next to the supremely gifted Ronaldo, Zizou, Figo, and the rest as opposed to the Butts,Nevilles,Djembas here. In fairness, he thought he was bigger than the club and it was good riddance.
January 8th, 2010 at 9:42
@Footy4Eddy: Rooney will be United Captain.Not now.I think Neville will sigh a year extension.So Rooney will have to wait for 1 more year
January 8th, 2010 at 9:48
@donibrasco: I think you are wrong.eckham still deserves his place on merit.There is no doubt.He is much better than SWP.If you have any doubt watch his last match for Milan.He was brilliant.
At that time also,Rest of madrids were not shits as they were Raul,Casillas,Carlos….These all are legends.So be sincere with facts
January 8th, 2010 at 9:54
How much good is Marouane Chamakh that all English clubs are interested except Utd
January 8th, 2010 at 10:10
@Grognard: You could say he stabbed his team mates in the back by going public, and Fergie protected the the side for the good of the team. Keane over stepped the mark and was finished Fergie did the right thing for United.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:15
@Footy4Eddy: Ok mate but blaming Fergie for him not succeeding is somewhat premature.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:16
@owen: His last match for Milan doesnt guarantee that.It is the fact that he is in semi retirement in America and does not play competitive football week in week out to be assessed like any other player would be.
You would consider Wright Phillips ahead of him and even he would be behind Lennon and Milner who are brilliant, and hell i would even consider Walcott
January 8th, 2010 at 10:20
@donibrasco: Your consideration will not matter as Capello he is not blind and he wants him.Lennon and Milner are small game players.Dont expect any thing from them against Big guns like Brazil ,spain…
January 8th, 2010 at 10:28
@owen: He is also under pressure from the FA I am sure to pick him for revenue, SWP, certainly Lennon, Walcott and pos Milner are playing better and at a lot higher level than him that is fact, but they will not sell shirts to repay Wembley like Beckham.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:40
@Stephen: Spot on.At least here we agree.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:52
Donibrasco – your thoughts on Beckham are rubbish mate – absolute tripe in my opinion, but there you go eh? Becks United legend and big part United history, brought more revenue to United than any other player, even your beloved CR7! There’s absolutely no doubt about that!
January 8th, 2010 at 10:58
Ronaldo is a million times the player Beckham is mata
January 8th, 2010 at 10:58
This whole Becks things is getting Annoying now… Boring… RR I beg you for new thread please… So that lads will have something else to fight for…
January 8th, 2010 at 11:04
@donibrasco: Matey he clearly said that Becks brought more MONEY to club even more than CR7. The key word here is MONEY/REVENUE.. No one in there sane mind will ever say that DB7 was better than CR7. But, the talk was about revenue and not play as whole… And there Craigy is totally right….
@Craig Mc: Sorry matey for interfering. I know you can very much take care of things on your own.. But, I am bored to death… So thought why not jump in with a comment or two….
BTW to BOTH of you… Seems like WAYNE ROONEY is going to be the next MAN UTD CAPTAIN… I don’t think both of you would fancy that.. Would you???
January 8th, 2010 at 11:20
@Grognard: I agree Grog, and I couldn’t have said it better myself.
January 8th, 2010 at 11:35
@Onkar: Even the revenue issue i doubt as we do not have concrete figures and both of them were marketable and one ting we are sure of is Ronaldo brought the club 80 million in transfer and that was outright payement.When you add that to the fact that on the pitch he was second to none in the world,it is fair to assert that he even brought class to our team and it is no secret that we became the best team in Europe because of him.
I did not want to indulge myself in this debate but i like being on this site and if i find a topic i put in my two cents but this Beckham thing was getting annoying.
You know the trend we are taking if it has come to appointing Rooney captain.Good player in my opinion but thats that, and if you think he is captain material i will respect your opinion but will not share the same.
January 8th, 2010 at 11:39
@Red Ranter: Oh I am well aware that when SAF speaks people listen mate. You and many fans on this blog are just a few of the party liners who will cry in unison Fergie is right, Fergie is right, Fergie is right! No matter what Fergie does in his treatment of players in his care, he is always right in the eyes of some. Well he isn’t and he treated Becks despicably, making him a scapegoat as he often did when United lost. Ask Keano, Veron, Red Nev (Becks best friend) what happened in the boot kicking event, AND in all Fergie’s other hate confrontations with Beckham. Beckhams only crime was he had more public ADULATION and Money Making Image than anybody else, and United and Beckhams name was always used synominously whenever our club was mentioned. That is what Fergie hated, and will always hate. He has long time nature of pulling players down when he feels they have massive public accolade. He has always wanted to prove who is boss. But it doesn’t work for him anymore in these days of modern power footballers, who will hit back and walk out if Fergie turns on his attitude. Who will not sweep everything under the carpet and keep it IN CLUB has they always had to do in the past. So Fergie has lost a lot of his power, and that is why he appears to have mellowed. Now he turns his tongue lashings and bullying on referees
. I am not a party liner as much as I love my club every bit as much as the party liners. I will call a spade a spade though, because my old man taught me never to do or say NOTHING when something needs to be said or spoke. I’m sick to death of United fans turning on and tearing up players who gave their all for United and loved this club with all their fucking hearts. I don’t believe in the fallibility of the POPE, and I don’t believe SAF is infallible either, no matter how much some want to support his often deplorable actions. Wrong treatment is wrong in my eyes, and Fergie has been very wrong in his treatment of many a player. Becks is just one of them!
January 8th, 2010 at 11:52
@donibrasco: I didn’t say I think I would like to see him as a captain.. I was just trying to divert your and for that matters everyone’s attention from the topic of Becks…. And as far as I am concerned, I won’t mind him captaining the side. But, I think this is not the correct time for him to take Captain’s Armband. As he is already having to much burden on his shoulder of otherwise mediocre team… Moreover, I always felt that MFer or a Defender should captain the side. And for me on current form Fletcher fits the bill well. Actually, Vidic would have been best possible option but.. Given the situation around him I don’t he is there with beyond summer in all honesty.. What a shame….
January 8th, 2010 at 12:00
@Onkar: No problem mate, I appreciate your input. With regards to the captaincy – as long as Evra wears his United heart on his sleeve as he does, I think he would make a good captain perhaps!
January 8th, 2010 at 12:13
@donibrasco: You make me laugh mate – you say spare me the Beckham talk – then you get right into the debate! With regards to CR7 bringing in 80 million – that is because he was sold at a time when transfer fees were already in the 35 to 45 million for many players. Also the CR7 transfer fee was strongly based on the fact United no way wanted to sell, whereas with Becks they made it known they wanted to sell – so lost the higher transfer fee negotiation power. As regards to who was the better player – well Becks in his prime didn’t need 3 years to make a name for himself. ON the otherhand CR7 scored many more goals for us. Becks put in more WORK RATE though, but obviously CR7 had a greater armoury than Becks and went on to become world’s best. Noticeably though CR7 got the accolade the season Messi was injured, but the last two years Messi has got it! All I can say is that I loved Becks for what he gave us in his era with the club, and CR7 could never pass a ball like Becks, but CR7 I also loved because he had lots of other thrilling attributes and contributed greatly to the United cause too!
January 8th, 2010 at 12:15
@CraigMc: Yeah…. I won’t disagree on that as well.. He is one of the player who shows incredible passion for that famous RED SHIRT.. Actually, I would also prefer him over Rooney surely.. I can’t believe his name missed out of my head… May be thats why they are called UNSUNG HEROES isn’t it??? But, yeah.. Its time to give him due recognition.. EVRA for Captaincy… Though I am not sure how GROGY would react…
January 8th, 2010 at 12:20
@CraigMc: BTW what is this ‘a free man of Salford’ is all about?? I think Giggsy have been given that status or something like that.. Can you throw some light on this???
January 8th, 2010 at 12:20
Seems Hargreaves has started training with the reserves… Hopefully he will be back to 1st team by the end of January…
January 8th, 2010 at 12:48
@CraigMc: Messi or no Messi,Ronaldo earned the status, and talking about taking three years to mature,at what age did Beckham mature?With those two, Beckham is the crossing type of einger along with Bentley, Downing and most of the scottish wingers but have you considered there are wingers whose game is to cut in and provide,like Ronaldo,Messi,Pires,Figo, i will even add Lennon and SWP,Robben,Ribbery who do not necessarily cross but are more effective.
January 8th, 2010 at 12:52
@donibrasco: On the captains arband, i agree with you totally
January 8th, 2010 at 13:04
@donibrasco: It is completely ridiculous to say that Lennon,SWP are more effective than Beckham.Can you even think for one second that these two will come second for Ballon d’Or.It will take another life for them.And more so Becks was the deserved winner that year but somehow Rivaldo got it.So BE FAIR AND some what respect the LEGENDS.
We left him go and got Ronaldo .so good business???
If we will get Torres ,then we should get rid of Rooney???
January 8th, 2010 at 13:05
@AndyCR7: Who is HARGREAVES???
January 8th, 2010 at 13:20
@donibrasco: To me you are most ignorant mate! But then each to his own eh?
January 8th, 2010 at 13:21
@owen: He is being ridiculous mate, but then nowt so blind as the blind eh?
January 8th, 2010 at 13:34
@Onkar: Freeman of Salford is a CIVIL ceremony by the City council, to bestow honour upon exemplary citizens. A person who has been a great ambassador and brought recognition and renown to the City with outstanding commitment and ability. It is the highest civil honour a City can bestow. I think its main privilage is that the person honoured can get into most things going on in the City without having to pay. Like theatres, concert halls, football arena’s restuarants etc etc etc. But it is mainly a ceremonial honour. That’s all I can tell you mate!
January 8th, 2010 at 15:26
@owen: He is like a tall Tevez, a harrassing striker, with great aerial ability.
Shocking finishing when he shoots though. But he has interesting indiviual technique.
He’s a good player, but if he goes under Wenger, he has the potential to become twice the player he currently is, just like Adebayor and Van Persie.
January 8th, 2010 at 15:27
@Footy4Eddy: He was pants against us. What are his talents again?
January 8th, 2010 at 15:33
@Footy4Eddy: He would!
But I just kneww that the retirements talks were just fleet street browsing the blogs for ideas about articles.
Fergie has just rubbished the talks of retirerments, to my disappointment.
And Scholes, in his wisdom; “Neville is the best right back in england when he’s fit”
Problem, Scholesy, is that he has not been fit for three years now.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:01
@Footy4Eddy: I t was never about letting Beckham go. It was all about the manner in which it was done. It was harsh, and disrespectful of a player who had given a decade of his life to the club and who still holds the club close to his heart. In the Fergie is the Boss and he has to make the hard decisions. It’s a tough job but he shouldn’t make it tougher for himself by holding personal grudges over things that have nothing to do with football.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:02
@Footy4Eddy: And modest too.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:03
In more surprising news, SAF has refused to lay the blame on the kids for the Leeds debacle.
I find this surprising as while most of the players were dreadful that day, out of our kids only Fabio performed reasonably well.
I think that means that we can expect more of Welbeck on the left.
This is why I thought we could have done with the city match very soon after instead of now, SAF will more likely revert to what he’s been doing all season up till now.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:05
@owen: Many of us love lobster and Filet Mignon but we can only afford hamburger and Kraft Dinner. I think you get my point. United has the transfer budget of a pauper these days.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:10
@Footy4Eddy: Ronaldo going to Real is not Fergie’s fault but I am amazed that Fergie would cast the door open for Beckham over a measly five million in image rights yet he would not fight harder to keep the world’s best player who was contractually tied to the team until 2012. I am a big believer that players need to live up to their contracts as they certainly expect the clubs to do so if they are suffering from bad form and are benched. Ronaldo had his dream but his dream never got in the way of signing that contract to 2012. So why give him up so easy? Is there any wonder why the 80 million has not been heard of since? It was never about Ronaldo or letting him go. It was about the Glazer’s needing the cash.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:23
@donibrasco: So to Hell with Bobby Charlton, George Best and Roy Keane too because when they retired or were shown the door, they were well past their best days too. To Hell with them, what are they to us now right? They are old news, fossils and serve no purpose unless they can play today.
What a ridiculous and incredibly sad attitude. I guess you have no respect for the WW2 veterans that died for your freedoms either do you? After all, they aren’t fighting now are they? It’s a little to easy for you to cast away old players and legends because your tunnel vision is incapable of looking back eh?
And Beckham is a money whore? You would be too if you were in his shoes. Above all, he is not the money whore Ronaldo or others who left the team because they wanted to play for a more glamorous team that would pay them more money. Beckham never asked for more money for his playing at United. That’s important to know that he had agreed to that part of a new contract. He just didn’t want the club to rob him of something which was rightfully his, his image. Clearly you are not a fan of his but you are also incredibly disrespectful to a former warrior and servant of this club that gave his all for the club for ten years. Ask yourself why Beckham is so popular in Spain and in Italy and especially with the coaches and player who all worked with him. It’s because he is not what you and other petty and bitter individuals make him out to be with your closed minded interpretations. Would a club like Milan even go after him a second time if he was such a mop like you make him out to be? No. They signed him again because he is still a good player who offers them another dimension in their attack. Get over yourself and you holier than thou attitude towards him because he is nothing like the man you make him out to be.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:30
@Stephen: Keane was wrong but also, Keane was captain. A captain should have a longer leash placed on him. He was wrong but considering what he had given the club and his years of sacrifice and service, he deserved a reprimand and some punishment, but not banishment. My God, he never struck a player or the manager nor did he disrespect the supporters. He openly did what he has done to his teammates behind closed doors I’m sure dozens of times in the past. Wrong, but not unforgivable I think. My God mate, he was the heart and soul of the club. Even if he was 60% the player he used to be, he had other assets that were invaluable. And in time he could have been moved into a coaching position with the club instead of cast off like yesterday’s trash. Fergie has a “See ya wouldn’t wanna be ya” attitude with players who cross him and that’s not really right or fair. Players and managers are people and they make mistakes. When has Fergie ever had to answer for his mistakes?
January 8th, 2010 at 17:34
@Craig Mc: You said it mate. Some people have an incredible inability to look at facts without letting their personal opinions of the players or managers get in the way. It doesn’t matter if you were not a Beckham fan. They should expect his tenure with the club and what he contributed but above all, stop accusing him of garbage that smells of nothing more than jealousy and envy. Like any of us would turn down money that had to do with image rights or being a good looking fashion plate that all the girls want. To ugly pug faces out there hiding behind a large pint of ale, my heart bleeds. Becks is a LEGEND.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:39
@donibrasco: So please who is arguing that point? Not me. Ronaldo for me is one of the greatest players of all time. But it’s important to know that Ronaldo was not on Fergie’s radar when he got rid of Beckham. He only found out about Ronaldo afterwards when they played against Sporting in an exhibition match. I’d pick Ronaldo over Beckham any day of the week, but that is not a slight on Becks. It’s just that Ronny was that great. Having said that, it still has nothing to do with the debate about Fergie having treated Beckham poorly and with great disrespect. Perhaps showing Fergie the door with a swift boot up his arse will be the only way the old man will ever understand what it feels like to players like Beckham, Keane, Stam, Hughes, RVN and others to be so unceremoniously dismissed from the club they so loved.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:47
@donibrasco: It’s getting annoying because you are understanding what it’s all about. It has nothing to do with Ronaldo or comparing Beckham to Ronaldo. There is no comparison. Ronaldo wins in a landslide. It’s about Fergie really and his way of managing this club and his treatment of people like former players and supporters and how he has always worked with his own agenda, right or wrong. Now he has another agenda which is protecting the club and it’s owners from the media and us, the supporters. Well considering how he has treated legends like Keane and Beckham, his present actions do not surprise me and my point in all this is I no longer have any faith in the man to be honest or sincere in the way he speaks through the media to the millions of United supporters. His desires do not coincide with our desires anymore. That much is plain to see. And that was the whole point about Beckham which some like yourself allowed to fly right over your heads.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:49
@CraigMc: Fantastic rant Bro, truly fantastic, and 100% correct, on all counts.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:56
@Onkar: Actually, I have a great deal of respect for Evra as a leader and as a captain because he works hard and rarely ever misses games and shows passion and commitment. He had a season and half where his performance and form slipped, especially after he was banned for a month but he seems to have recovered and although he cannot shoot worth shit and his crossing and passing is nothing to write home about and that he has no aerial game due the fact he is a hobbit, he is a valuable player and still one of 2 or 3 great if not world class left backs in the world. He also seems to have a voice and cares about the team and defends it. I would not complain if he were captain but still I would prefer Fletcher or Rooney and there is a way to ensure Vidic staying if Fergie had a brain cell left after all that boozing. Name Vidic captain. No man named captain of United would want to leave. It’s like when Hitler’s Generals were losing key battles, he would promote them to Field Marshall so that they would never surrender, as no field marshall had ever surrendered before. Well I doubt a man named captain of a prestige team like United would turn his back on it. What do you think?
January 8th, 2010 at 17:57
@AndyCR7: I’ll believe it when I see it. Consider me skeptical.
January 8th, 2010 at 17:58
@NicoQB: Scholes seems to not be mentally fit himself.
January 8th, 2010 at 18:02
@NicoQB: Only reason Fergie won’t blame the kids, is because he wouldn’t then be able to justify his folly in picking them
. Typical “I am never wrong tactics” by SAF.
January 8th, 2010 at 18:49
@Grognard: He doesn’t have to answer to anyone mate he is the manager, he makes decisions hopefully for the good of the club, if the majority of players were fed up with Keane and he was on his last legs then he had to go, also the prawn sandwich comment also over stepped the mark with the fans, his time was up.
Also you say we should respect our greats, but you have said very disrespectful things about Scholes and Red Nev in the past so respect the players you like then?
January 8th, 2010 at 19:11
@Grognard: Beckham left because he fell out with the manager, that is a two street, he also could not agree a contract and his bitch whore wife wanted him to leave, he could have chosen to stay, also we signed Ronaldo for half the price so not all bad.
Stam, left becuase he wrote a book saying Fergie tapped him up and the Nevilles were “busy cunts” he also was banned for drugs soon after signing for Lazio, odd that, buthe signed his own death warrant so he has only himself to blame.
Keane well I have covered that and he could only manage 10 games in the Scottish pub league so his time was up, even before his public rant on the players.
Hughes, He left the “club he loved” for the money in Spain first off and he was suffering from a knee injury and people felt he wasn’t the player he was and that put pay to a move to Everton also we had Andy Cole and Cantona and a bunch of kids coming through so made all worked out well.
RVN, fell out heavily with Ronaldo and made the lad cry, there was also feeling that he wasn’t making enough effort and his movement was non existant, I love the guy but Fergie backed the right horse there.
I am not saying Fergie isn’t ruthless but he seems to take the decision which he believes is best for the team, and he has not been proven wrong with these choices in my view.
January 8th, 2010 at 19:34
Grognard, let it be. Comparing overpaid footballers to soldiers is a ridiculous comparison. People aren’t stupid. And don’t tell me football is war. It’s not. It’s a commercialised distraction that people are addicted to.
So fans are entitled to view certain players the way they feel. The Beckham issue splits United fans down the middle, and there is good reason for it. Sometimes when an issue is this contentious there is some truth to it.
Beckham is Legend in your book, but making this a crusade to ask other people to respect it is a wasteful exercise. It’s just like when you made disrespectful comments on Scholes and Neville and defended yourself quite well – by essentially saying you don’t have respect for overpaid footballers and celebrities and you can say what you want about them. So let those who disrespect Beckham, do their bidding. Don’t make modern football sound as noble as soldiers laying their life down in WW2. Football is not that noble.
January 8th, 2010 at 19:53
@CraigMc: Oh so I’m a party liner? I try to be as objective as I can by trying to view events and not letting my personal prejudices on United players or staff get in the way. (In fact, with your Nani love I think the same cannot be said of you.) So your argument lost a lot of credibility when you made such a baseless accusation. Especially since I actually said Ferguson had to cop the majority of the blame for the Beckham incident (yet Beckham had a hand in it too.)
January 8th, 2010 at 20:15
@Grognard: warric dunn, derick brooks, mike alstot, warren sapp, the barbers, Keyshawn Johnson, Cadillac williams…
these guys won alot of games and some were superbowl champs with the 02 team.
Im not trying to win you over… im just telling you how it went down and bucks fans didnt have a problem with them till they bought United and put all of their time and money into United instead of Tampa Bay.
they didnt quit spending for the bucs till they bought United. thats all im trying to convince you of. the had a great team and were winning championships untill they found a new toy United.
I think they should unload tampa to someone who wants to put some money in it. Forbes has tampa bay valued at $1.1bn US which comes out to 689,179,876 gbp. I dont have to tell you guys how close that number is to what they need to make united debt free.forbes valuation of Tampa bay bucs
If they could get any where near that amount for the bucs its game on bitches.
January 8th, 2010 at 20:19
@Grognard: use small paragraphs it helps with the add
January 8th, 2010 at 20:24
@Footy4Eddy:
heal the world eddy
January 8th, 2010 at 20:26
@owen: thats not true the players told him to get him after the game but the deal was done already
January 8th, 2010 at 20:30
@Onkar: +1
January 8th, 2010 at 20:31
@gator: The deal was done but we brought the transfer a year forward, for me some of the people want Fergie out on this site and actually believe he doesn’t know what he is doing jeeez, I still rememebr when we hadn’t won the league for 20 odd years, Liverpool dominated the league maybe too many people have been spoilt.
January 8th, 2010 at 22:25
@Red Ranter: How can liking Nani and thinking he has a lot os skill and will prove it elsewhere be party liner mentality. To be a party liner is to take the club approach, to think like the club thinks, and to not rock the boat. I am the furthest thing from a party liner you could ever get. I was answering your comment where you said that Fergie is always right??? or was it always heard LOL. Party liners deny even the most obvious things, NOT because they can’t see them, but because they will support club stance and philosophy no matter what. Quoting Nani, which is all any of you on here have to come back at me is well – ridiculous! The club and fans stance on Nani is totally opposite to mine, so it can certainly not be justly said or right to say I am taking the club party line with Nani. Most of you lot only ever have one bullet to direct at me – NANI NANI NANI
. I fight against the party liners on every United blog I occasionally visit, check ROM and Stretford End blogs for proof. I think I can safely say RR, that just like the majority on those blogs you do support the party line mostly. Party liners don’t need to apologise for their stance that the club and SAF (whether they personally think they are wrong or not), a TRUE fan never SPEAKS out against it though! Blind support to the end! I will support where I honestly feel support of club and SAF’s stance is a right one, but I will call them on it when I don’t think they are right in what they do. So as the song says “You go your way, and I’ll go mine RR.” After all you have your thought and way of looking and doing things, and so do I. 
.
January 8th, 2010 at 22:32
@Grognard: i am from india, have been following united for the past 5 years. as u said the donations are not at all the point of concern. because united has the brand value and also the X-factor to draw that kind of money through donations. the ownership has to change. most of the fans are not completely aware of the situation. as i can remember u are one of the few people who was attacking the glazers from a long time. but many fans never really think that far to relate the mediocre performances of our team to the greed of our owners. i dont think people will stop buying the manchester brand so as to improve the condition of the club. but great dream
January 8th, 2010 at 22:35
@Stephen: FFS mate – how would you like someone to call your Missus a Bitch Whore wife. A whore wife is someone who has been unfaithful to their husband, which Victoria never has. If someone said that to your partner, you would lamp them one – your as bad as the England fans who chanted that to Becks every game, AND chanted in the same ugly spirit that they were wishing cancer on his kids.
January 8th, 2010 at 22:41
@Stephen: I think Grognard was talking about respecting our club legends, something you just like SAF forget when they leave the club! If you go back thru Grog’s posts in the archives (and you know how few things Grog and I agree on) yes he has said he disrespects certain things about Nev and Scholesy, but I cannot recall he ever said they weren’t legends! Correct me if I’m wrong Grog?
January 8th, 2010 at 22:44
@Grognard: He still has his occasional skinned sausage games though Grog
.
January 8th, 2010 at 22:45
@Grognard: fergie has the choice to either stand against the glazers or to use all his managerial skills to win the prem or cups with a lower level team. i dont know what the situation would have been if he stood against the owners. i think it would have really put some pressure on the owners. it is better than winning 2 more prem titles with very unattractive football and later dropping lower into the table which may probably happen
January 8th, 2010 at 22:55
@CraigMc: It’s not being a party liner. It’s blind support for anything. Something you showed with Nani. If you’ve read my blog over the past years you’d know better than to call me a party-liner. That’s what I’m talking about.
I don’t have blind support for anything or anyone. I am a United supporter but it doesn’t mean anything is above my examination.
We have our opinions on different things, and on some situations I agree with Ferguson and some I don’t. Yet just because on this instance I said Beckham had to share the blame even though Ferguson had a big part to play, you chose to call me a party liner. Which is far from the truth.
January 8th, 2010 at 22:59
@CraigMc: Scratch it ’til it bleeds, why don’t you!!
January 8th, 2010 at 23:24
@Redrich: Well what do you expect Bro, my nails are sharp?
. Gotta keep that Sabre rattling Rich mi man!
January 8th, 2010 at 23:26
@Red Ranter: You’re not a party liner, you’re a “Beckham hater”.
January 8th, 2010 at 23:27
@Red Ranter: Oh dear – can’t do right for doing wrong
. By the way RR to be a party liner there has to be a party support, AND last time I looked Nani isn’t a party 
January 8th, 2010 at 23:28
@Redrich:
.
January 8th, 2010 at 23:30
@CraigMc:
Rattle away mate!!
January 8th, 2010 at 23:38
Fergie – “I have got money to spend – there is no cold war with the Glazers – yeah right! Patrick Vierra – City can win the PL title, Man United are not as powerful as they were! So the Vierra hostility continues. Daily Mail headlines from Vierra – this City isn’t big enough for both of us. The Daily mail SHITE stirrers are still out spreading their faeces in United’s direction, and crying at night that City will become THE TEAM
.
January 8th, 2010 at 23:42
@NicoQB: do u know if scholes has the brain to understand the meaning of that??
January 9th, 2010 at 1:11
Tevez has been crowned player of the month. Im glad for him because he was always one of my favourite players.
Fergie is lying through his teeth. The only clubs who care about “value” are poor clubs. The Real Madrids of this world pay whatever it takes to land players who will improve their team. However given Fergie’s transfer mistakes of the past few years Im not sure even if we did splash some cash it would make any difference.
I can see the latest fall out to be Fergie and Vidic. There is no doubt in my mind he is heading for Spain this summer. It is ridiculous we are not giving him the bumper contract he deserves…he has surpassed Rio as our best central defender and manages to play twice as many games.
The smart move would be to sell Rio for £15-20 million to an Italian or Spanish club. That money could be reinvested in an up and coming defender such as Kjaer and leave a bit of change to fund the signing of a midfielder.
January 9th, 2010 at 3:43
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2801018/Im-not-fit-to-wear-Utd-shirt.html
January 9th, 2010 at 3:45
Can’t believe nobody’s talking about the game tomorrow!
Big questions for me are:-
- Will Diouf get a sniff?
- Will we see a surprise return of Rio?
- Will SAF play Fletcher and Carrick together?
- Will PIG’s dodgy outing open the door for Foster again?
- Will Berbatov be benched as a punishment for the Leeds game?
In any case, we really need to win this game – and with some style. It would be incomprehensible for us to loose or draw. The season is savable if the men can find an understanding with one another and a way to score a goal or two.
However, this all just might be a pipe dream, ….eh!
January 9th, 2010 at 3:46
@Stephen: And in turn, we do not have to answer to him or give him an ounce of support if he in turn will not respect us and support us when we are asking questions or act concerned. Just telling the truth would be a start. He doesn’t want to do it, fine. Grognard got a heaping can of whoop ass all ready for the next royal Man Utd fuck up, trust me on that.
January 9th, 2010 at 3:50
@Stephen: I’m not even dignify that garbage with a proper reply mate. “A bitch whore wife”. That’s just out of line and so far from the truth. She has been nothing but a loyal wife and mother and despite her pop icon status and bimbo style, she is nothing like her image and deserves a Hell of a lot more respect than what both you and Fergiue have dished out towards her. No it doesn’t have to be a two way street. Beckham rubbed Fergie the wrong way and Fergie acted. End of story. Man, calling one of our legends wife a bitch and a whore is just so out of line.
January 9th, 2010 at 3:58
Brum are 12 games unbeaten and fancy themselves now. They really could have a go at us. Put pressure on our back four (who wouldn’t right now) and try to hustle the MF (who wouldn’t right now) and crowd the middle of their defense to isolate Rooney and Berbatov (who wouldn’t).
If we can come through this one with some respect I’ll be very happy.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:01
@Red Ranter: What an overhanded statement. I never got into a deep moral or ethical rant spouting about war and it’s social morals. I referred to Hitler always promoting Generals to Field Marshalls so that they would not surrender and I thought that comparing that with the way Fergie SHOULD treats the captaincy so that they don’t bolt on this club was a valid comparison. Hardly harsh or negative or philosophical or moralistic. Simply an accurate and intelligent analogy of the situation.
I refuse to talk down to people and suppress my intellect on the grounds of idiotic PC bullshit. If you cannot grasp my intent with that incredibly innocent and harmless comment, then I have nothing to add to it but, lighten up.
I am a history teacher and so I use history a lot to make my points or defend my position in conversations or debates. You have been awfully bitchy the last few days and perhaps I am to blame or perhaps I’m not. I too have a lot going if you read my e-mail a few days ago, but I am trying to behave and not take out my frustrations on others despite my bad mood. So please, lay off there mate because I did nothing wrong there and you have simply misunderstood my intent and my meaning. It’s got nothing to do with nobility and there is really nothing noble about Hitler or his Field Marshalls now is there? Don’t hate me cause I’m beautiful………………..and smart
January 9th, 2010 at 4:04
@Redrich: Too bad we don’t have Ronaldo!!
January 9th, 2010 at 4:07
@Grognard: “Don’t hate me cause I’m beautiful………………..”
Please, ….send pictures, I need proof!!
January 9th, 2010 at 4:08
@Red Ranter: I wouldn’t call you a party liner mate, far from it but if I had to throw an accusation at you I’d say you are a bit of PC fence sitter and one who refuses to get emotionally involved in something or in a crusade when something is wrong. I know you work and I am sure you are tired and haven’t got my time but just so you know, you do come across as very non committal to me. Not always, but a fair amount of the time. Just your attitude to my hard line is proof of that. That’s fine, its ok with me, but I can’t ignore the fact that you rarely if ever have agreed with a word I have said. To me that is not proactive or assertive. It’s fence sitting and it bogged down with political correctness like your latest condemnation of my WW2 references were far from controversial or riske in nature. I could be wrong and i do respect you mate so let me have it if you feel I’m wrong, but I just don’t think I am.I mean when have you really ever taken a stance against anything or really gone way out to defend a player etc? You love to spout off stats and examples but that’s a cop out to me. You need to get down and dirty like me and the Craigster once in a while. Show us you have a pair.
Show us you have a heart that beats red. 
January 9th, 2010 at 4:14
@CraigMc: Special love and kisses to Lil Man Nani for that mate. Well said. Stephen is a good bloke and he knows better than that. I think we can chalk it up to frustration and the right to not like Beckham. But he was way out of line with that. I’m not a Posh fan by any means but the woman does not offend me and I actually think she like Janet Gretzky have shown to be a lot better wives and mothers than I would ever have given them credit for.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:20
@CraigMc: Damn straight, By the way, don’t you find we are agreeing on almost everything lately?
You are correct. I am not a Nev fan or a Scholes fan but they are legends and they gave their heart and soul to this team with a lot of years of loyal service like Becks and Giggsy. Just because their playing style is not necessarily my cup of tea, does not mean I haven’t got respect and appreciation for the, I do believe however that they have overstayed their welcome and they should retire because they are well past it. Still legends they are. What I am over everything else mate is fair and humble enough (I know, hard to believe) to admit a mistake. Have I not been just glowing with praise for Pat Evra this season? He is the comeback player of the year for me because I wanted him gone last season if you remember. To quote Commodus from “Gladiator”…..AM I NOT MERCIFUL? 
January 9th, 2010 at 4:21
@CraigMc: Yes he does but last year those skinned sausage moments were at epidemic proportions. He’s really picked up his game but he still would not be my choice for skipper.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:24
@Reddy: I think the situation is one of two scenarios mate. He is so obsessed with his legacy and beating Liverpool’s record and winning at least one more CL title to at least say he won a trio of them that he will put up with all the garbage because he is arrogant and confident enough in HIS abilities to get the job done. The second scenario is that he puts up with the BS because in his mind and in his soul he cannot bring himself to quit because he needs the job like an elixir for life. It is so part of his life that he cannot yet find the courage to part with it.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:29
@Red Ranter: Yes but it wouldn’t hurt if you took a stand and hung yourself out to dry for something that bugged you. You never seem to do this because you have a Mr. Spock way of looking at everything with such calm and no passion and with far too much logic for my liking. Take a plunge once in a while, expose yourself to the masses. It might be liberating and intoxicating to you if you do. I honestly get a high when I write some of my really deep philosophical rants. It’s because I care more than I should. I’m not advocating becoming like me, I’m not that cruel. I’m just saying stop being like pablum and take a stand once in a while. Christ, at least if you were a party liner I could say you are taking a stand and are showing passion about something. Don’t be mad at me mate, I’m just being honest on how I often perceive on the bog, not in our e-mails which are very much different.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:30
@Redrich: OOOOOH! OUCH!
January 9th, 2010 at 4:32
@CraigMc: Next summer Fergie needs to pass on the south of France and go on a vacation down his favorite river de Nile.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:33
@Redrich: There’s a game tomorrow?
Actually, I’m surprised it hasn’t been cancelled. And besides, what’s the point. United will stink up the joint as usual.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:35
@Redrich: I want to be a mystery man. Sort of like my hero Batman.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:39
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/6952629/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-denies-Manchester-Uniteds-699m-debt-has-affected-his-spending-power.html?
My reply to this is straight from the cult classic “Animal House”, whispered under my breath and with my hand covering mouth….. BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB! BLOW JOB!
January 9th, 2010 at 4:40
@Grognard: So you are Robin then??
Forget the photos, I can just see you now!
January 9th, 2010 at 5:22
WTF????
January 9th, 2010 at 6:40
@Redrich: No I am a narcissist so I am Batman.
January 9th, 2010 at 7:02
It pains me that some radical group would fire on the Togo national team bus. Why would you take out your frustrations on innocent people?
January 9th, 2010 at 7:06
@Grognard: I take a more cerebral approach towards following the game. I’m caught in the moment only while watching it and a day or so beyond it. But when I write I try to gather perspective.
It may give you a high, but doesn’t to me — and I’ve tried it in the past. Rants are easy to write. I’ve seen how easily stuff flows when I get into rant mode. But I feel it doesn’t do much to stimulate my intellect. Which is why I prefer well-rounded and thought out pieces, to rants I would disagree with the next day I read it.
(Oh, and I do take the plunge once in a while, and if you’ve been alert you would have noticed by now)
January 9th, 2010 at 7:08
@Johnsom33: Considering the stuff that’s been happening in the world — ie, terrorist attacks etc — I hope your question (“Why would you take out your frustrations on innocent people?”) was only rhetorical.