Feb 26
United’s Midfield Dilemma
Pick up a piece of paper, and write down United’s best XI. Picks itself, mostly, doesn’t it? You might be in the Giggs or the Nani camp for the left wing, but I’d bet my bottom dollar that 8 of the names down will appear on everyone’s list. The remaining two? Only the small matter of our central midfield partnership.
This is something that has elicited a lot of discussion in the comment sections recently. I don’t pretend to have the answer or anything approaching it, but what I’d like to do is present my take on the conflicting views and then give you my opinion. Which you can then rip apart (or try to!) in the comments.
As I see it, there are four players (despite Fletcher’s valiant performances recently, he’s never going to be a regular first choice), two general approaches and one big complicating factor. Let’s look at each in turn, and then try to draw the strands together.
The four contenders
All ranked in what I think are the key aspects: Tackling, Ball Retention (I’m thinking here about how well he keeps the ball under pressure, and also pass completion rate), Creativity (what he’s adding to the team going forward), Goal-scoring. I’ve also noted some other relevant points at the end of each.
Paul Scholes
Tackling – 3/10 – has always been dreadful, and is too old to improve now!
Ball Rentention – 10/10 – always seems to have time and space, regardless of pressure, and rarely misplaces a pass.
Creativity – 7/10 – prompts constantly by using the ball quickly and intelligently, but doesn’t crop up in as advanced positions as he used to. Still capable of finding a magic through ball (Milan first leg for Rooney last season, anyone?)
Goal-scoring – 6/10 – again, doesn’t get forward as much as he used to but remains a big threat from range.
Other – getting older now, and you can see the difference in his pitch coverage (and consequently his goal return). Despite everything Fergie says, I can’t see him featuring regularly beyond next season. On his day, though, in a league of his own.
Owen Hargreaves
Tackling – 9/10 – what he was bought for, and what he’s best at.
Ball Rentention – 7/10 – doesn’t try the spectacular, just gives it to his more talented team mates.
Creativity – 4/10 – rarely gets far enough forward to make a difference, and his stock pass goes sideways.
Goal-scoring – 0/10 – not as yet, and with Ronaldo around he’s not going to get many free kicks either.
Other – one word: injuries; we’re not going to see what he’s capable of until he’s fit enough to play 10 games in a row.
Michael Carrick
Tackling – 7/10 – you don’t often see him go to ground, but his positional sense is good and he screens intelligently.
Ball Rentention – 8/10 – has learned a lot from Scholes, but isn’t up there with the master yet.
Creativity – 9/10 – he always looks to pass the ball forward first, and can pick those eye-of-the-needle passes which undo tight defences.
Goal-scoring – 4/10 – picked up the message last season that he needs to contribute, and can score from distance.
Other – a confidence player, who lapsed badly at the start of this season when he found himself dropped for a spell.
Anderson
Tackling – 7/10 – very aggressive hustler, never gives opponents a moment’s peace
Ball Rentention – 6/10 – more inclined to try flicks or dribbles which don’t come off, but not bad.
Creativity – 8/10 – the only one who can beat a series of players and who will play down the channels as well; very good support for the front players.
Goal-scoring – 2/10 – the floodgates must open soon…the potential’s certainly there.
Other – he’s good this season, so god knows what he could be eventually.
The two approaches
I can see arguments for each of these, but they are broadly:
1. Have a first choice pair, who play 75% of the games together, with others providing ability to rotate and cover for injury.
Pros – first choice pair develop instinctive understanding (Carrick and Scholes had this going on last year, as did our whole Treble-winning midfield – they didn’t even need to look up to know where their mate was going to be)
- consistency also benefits the rest of the team, who know exactly what’s coming from the centre of the park.
Cons – Doesn’t make full use of the talent pool and may cause players to leave
- injuries etc have a more disruptive effect
- see the reasons for option 2 below
2. Pick a partnership based on the match you’re going into.
Pros – can tailor the strengths of the individuals to the requirements of the game (eg Hargreaves for big games to shackle dangerous midfielders, Scholes in games where experience is judged key, etc)
- retains freshness
Cons – just look at Liverpool for the downsides of constant tinkering
- players play as individuals rather than a partnership
As I said at the beginning, I can see arguments for both…I’ll discuss further in my conclusion section.
The complicating factor
Is, of course, injury. Scholes has been out for most of the season so far (which has proved to be a blessing in disguise, since it has allowed Anderson to emerge), and Hargreaves has yet to start more than 2 games in a row. Even if Fergie had decided on a first choice pair, this sort of thing makes it very difficult to implement.
Conclusion
I wrote the above without having a strong idea of where I was going – I was as much musing to myself as anything. But I am going to stick my neck out and say that Carrick and Anderson should be our first choice pair for the majority of matches. My reasoning is as follows:
- They both add a huge amount going forward. I absolutely adore Carrick’s instinct to find a piercing ball forwards to feet – Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez are all good enough to receive this sort of ball with a man at their back and do something with it, and are equally likely to be making runs in behind. I think we will get a lot of goals from Carrick’s passing. Equally, Anderson is a good passer of the ball and a potentially superb dribbler (great upper body strength, a la Rooney) who can support the front players.
- They both do enough defensively. Most teams set up very tight against us, and we’re happy to go man-for-man at the back if needs be, so the attacking penetration is crucial (this is the key argument against Hargreaves, other than injury). Which is not to say they can’t come out on top in a midfield scrap, or hold their own in a physical game.
- Carrick – who is the more controversial choice – is a confidence player. Give him responsibility and a long run in the side and he seems to grow into it. He is also a big game player (witness the two Roma games last season, where he was superb in each leg – a defensive midfield masterclass in the first, and a game-bossing, two-goal performance in the second). What he is not going to be is a useful squad player like Fletcher.
- Both are young and not injury-prone – you really can see them playing 30 games a season with each other without disruption, and doing this for the next 5 seasons. Continuity really makes a difference.
I think the nod to flexibility is that in big games against teams with dangerous midfields, we can lose Giggs/Nani and include Hargreaves as a screen, with Anderson detailed to get up and support the Holy Trinity up front when we have the ball.
But what of Scholes? Well, he has a role to play, but he is past his best and seems to be increasingly injury-prone. He doesn’t make those runs into the box as much anymore, either. As an impact player, an experienced head in some big games and a great alternative he will be unbeatable…but I think his star is waning along with Giggsy’s.
So, here’s my plea to Fergie – start Carrick and Anderson in every game possible, and don’t let the embarrassment of riches at your disposal lead you into tinkering.
Related items from Red Rants:
- So How Good Is Manchester United?
- United’s Road to Recovery Just Around the Corner
- Today’s News In Recycle Mode
- SAF’s European Headache
- United’s debt situation explained
Tags: Opinions/Columns
February 26th, 2008 at 10:38
for scholes and what may ranters here have been saying is that he doesnt do what he used to do anymore that made him the midfield genuis, so from my side he is already out.
hargreaves has done better so far but not what we expected, nothing spectacular from him..maybe injuries has to blame..
anderson, what a revalation, the boy is good, moves forward well, makes gerrard and fabregas look like average midfielders, jus what the doctor prescribed to counter them, so he should start all matches, should always be our first choice..
carrick, the reason why we won the EPL last season and he continues to show why fergy went for him in the first place, i like his vision,his passing,,and its quite obvious that he should def get the node.
so unless we are going for a draw, carrick and anderson should always start.
February 26th, 2008 at 11:01
My starting 11
VDS
EVRA FERDI VIDIC BROWN
NANI ANDERSON FLETCHER/CARRICK RONALDO
TEVEZ ROONEY
EUROPE
VDS
BROWN FERDI VIDIC EVRA
SCHOLES HARGO
ANDERSON
RONALDO ROONEY TEVEZ
February 26th, 2008 at 11:05
It will be really interesting to see what team he puts out if we get to say a champions league final
Will he have the balls to play anderson and nani? or will he use giggs and scholes due to experience
February 26th, 2008 at 11:16
@Penguin – Agree with you completely dude, nice thoughtful post.
I think we’re just complicating things due to the sole reason that we have a number of midfielders (5 incl. Fletcher). Just looking at the most basic attributes we need from our central two, which is no doubt solidness and a creative flair, the combo of Carrick and Anderson win hands down. I think Fergie should start every match (except when he wants to them to take a break) with these two. The ONLY reasons to bring on Scholes/Hargreaves is when a)when we are 2 or 3 goals up, it’s the 2nd half and we need to finish off the match safely (bring on Hagreaves for Ando) or, b)when we need a different attacking impetus (say we’re 1-0 down with 15min left) – so bring on Scholes or, c) Carrick/Ando are having a real off-day, which can happen, since both are only human (bring on Scholes or Hargreaves, or even both)
February 26th, 2008 at 11:23
Interesting ratings given there, but I think the overriding factor is working out who plays well together. For example, I’d think Anderson and Scholes wouldn’t work well together, but Anderson/Hargreaves and Scholes/Carrick do.
February 26th, 2008 at 11:26
@ Paul
I agree that at the moment we essentially have the two partnerships you named, I just don’t think either are optimal. Not that many teams would complain at either…
February 26th, 2008 at 11:34
interesting: carrick and anderson are good for us if we want to get
forward.we are at our fluent best when this two are at the helm
of the midfield.there are the best of both worlds,we attack attack
and don’t lose our form\shape when we are attacking.
February 26th, 2008 at 11:36
i think its carrick and anderson if u r playing at home and when u playing away bing teams its hargreves and anderson and schols must be use in every game last 20 mins
February 26th, 2008 at 11:37
It’s a good summary of the current situation. My favoured midfield for the big games is Hargreaves, Carrick and Anderson. I really don’t think Scholes fits into the picture unless he can somehow recapture his former role as an attacking midfielder who can score his fair share of goals. If indeed he can then I’d have him in as first choice instead of Anderson – at least for the time being.
In games where we are comfortable with a two man central midfield then Carrick / Anderson (or Scholes) will be fine.
February 26th, 2008 at 13:22
we cannot av a rigid mid-field though i agreed with you that anderson-carrick combination is the best for now.in some big matches like the one against milan at san-siro we missed a steel in our mid-field.hargreaves would have given us
February 26th, 2008 at 15:01
hragreaves tackling 9 ???? cant agree as i have not seen much of his tackling this season..yup there were lot many on last WC for England..but this year nothing great ! have seen lot many from carrick and he deserves a bit more on tackling ! ..hargo is a tireless player..Run behind players and force them loose the ball or take it back ! he is a good player who can be even played in wings as well in case of emergency ! and anderson –i still believe he is not a centre midfield player…he is like ronaldinho ot am not sure which is his best position..fergie knows it better
February 26th, 2008 at 15:03
suddenly (or gradually) almost everyone seems to be praising carrick compared to a few months back. looks like people are starting to realise how good this “plain..blend..boring..sideward-passing” player is. At one point there were even comparisons between fletcher and carrick, discussions of who is better. and yea yea his was over-priced stil, but as SAF said, we almost usually pay higher than others. well, somehow i feel glad now that i stood up for him when he had his blip.
btw don’t forget hargreaves is an extremely versatile player. i would actually pick him at full back ahead of JOS for cover. well thats just what i think.
February 26th, 2008 at 15:43
The team is built to go forward so our midfield as to have pace: anderson, carrick, fletcher: OK! Scholes? Maybe. Hargreaves? No! I agree with Kenn that he is versatile but at this moment whenever he’s on the team we lose and concede goals. He must improve a lot or else. My feeling from what I’ve seen so far is that Hargreaves is going to be a bust. Sorry, but I just don’t like the way we play when He plays.
February 26th, 2008 at 15:54
Penguin,
I have been arguing for the midfield pairings you have mentioned for a bit now. These pairings seem to be Fergies only option, IMO. The only other possibility would be Hargo and Andy, with Schloles and Carrick. But I find that Scholes and Carrick is far too soft to field against the best sides in Europe. I still think Carrick is averse to contact and is frighteningly sheepish in midfield at times, but Anderson does well to balance this out. They both provide great skill going forward and provide phenomenal service. While Scholes may be our best offensive midfielder on his best day, we are forced to play him with Hargo as he gives away far too much defensively. Hargo may not have produced much offensively, but alot of that is probably due to the fact that he is sent out there with Giggs, Scholes and Ronaldo–leaving him as a one-man wall between the attack in the defense. No wonder he never gets forward! Good article, brother.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:03
I have always said that carrick should be in the starting line up while some people were calling for hhis head and to be transfered in summer earlier in the season.he needed game to improve and now he is showing his accuracy in passing.Hargreaves has made some crucial tackles for us in the big games so he is useful in the champions leaugue.that is why sir alex sign him.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:20
carrick and anderson should be first choice.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:21
Must be nice to have such a dilema. Consider the small clubs who have no choice!
February 26th, 2008 at 16:35
Although Anderson is one of our two-in form CM’s at this moment in time, along with Carrick, lets not forget that the lad is still only 19. He’s no superhuman, and playing him constantly and overburdening him with CM responsibility will eventually burn him out at some point; remember SAF only bought him and Nani to be used sparingly this season, to be eased in, with a view to next season being the season where they come into their own. We also don’t want to be too over-reliant on him, like Arsenal are with the ‘golden boy’ Cesc and Dippers with Gerrard.
Shannon – an interesting proposition you bring up. I certainly would prefer to see Giggs, Scholes and Hargreaves starting in the latter stages of the Champions League, as they’ve won and seen it all in this competition, with the likes of Anderson, Carrick and Nani to be brought off the bench as impact players when the opposition are tiring, or to change the game; the recent Lyon game being a fantastic example. Remember Milan a few seasons ago? When Rooney and Ronaldo were rabbits caught in the headlights at the San Siro and we lost the 2nd leg 1-0? You just CANNOT beat big match experience, and for that very reason alone, I would favour a Scholes/Hargreaves combo in the CL over Anderson/Carrick. We’ll especially need Hargreaves if we are defending a first leg lead.
On that note, I’d just like to say that it’s absolute folly to write off Scholes like that. People wrote him off after that nasty eye injury two seasons ago, and he was splendid for us last season. He needs a few games, because no United midfielder, not even Anderson, comes close to Scholesy when on song (even at his age), and he can definitely still do a job for us a la Paolo Maldini.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:37
(AntiManu)
At least we are not a Chelsea.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:42
Hargreaves os a much better player than he has shown for us thus far. Based on form, you have to
go with Carrick/Anderson, but I think most of you are under rating Hargo. The Owen Hargreaves
I’ve seen for United is NOT the same one I saw for Bayern, and I think most of you are forgetting that on top of his injuries this season, he also missed almost the entire Bundesliga season last year. Give the lad a chance to get some games
under his belt before you banish him to the bench.
February 26th, 2008 at 16:44
Oh, and how is Anderson’s goal scoring ability a 2/10 and Hargo is a 0/10? I haven’t seen
Anderson score a goal with my own eyes, and I KNOW I’ve seen Hargo score quite a few crackers
(maybe not for us, but still) I LOVE Anderson, but as I said before, Hargo has ALOT to offer when match fit.
February 26th, 2008 at 17:08
Ranter,
Completely agree with your conclusion. I have always been a huge fan of Carrick, as my previous posts have shown. I must admit, however, that I am a it surprised that his ability to move forward and opportunities for through passes have not decreased when playing alongside Anderson, despite Anderson’s offensive style. Plus, Carrick really is the most complete CM we have in that he can move forward in support, while at the same time get back in defense. I would actually say that his tackling abilities are on par with those of Hargreaves. Also, it always seems as though whenever he tackles, he is able to get to his feet quickly, retain the ball, and move it forward.
However, Carrick is most effective when he is able to dictate the game. Therefore, I have doubts about his ability to come off the bench and enter into the game after the tempo has already been established, unless SAF’s intention is to defend a lead. If we really wanted to best utilize our stock of CMs, I would start Scholes, Carrick, and Hargreaves across the middle in either a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 formation in away CL ties. At home, I think Anderson should start alongside Carrick. As the schedule gets more hectic with league and FA cup, I would expect SAF to rotate all of them, including Fletcher, so as to keep them fresh, especially in the weekend games before a CL match.
February 26th, 2008 at 17:20
for me,the second scenario is the best.carrickand anderson to play against teams we need to break down,hargreaves or scholes to come in in europe or against a top four side.
February 26th, 2008 at 17:31
“I agree that Giggs and Scholes are not as fast as maybe the newcomers but pace is not the only quality you need in a side. I think the reason why the young lads like Anderson and Nani are playing so well is because they have these players to look up to. It must be amazing to train with players who’ve done it all. Also, Scholes is not 100% fit either. He needs a few more games to get back, let’s not forget that. Speed was never a feature in his play to be honest. It’s his cleverness in the final third and his trickery that often goes unnoticed. The bottom line is that Giggs and Scholes can mix it with the best of them.” got it from man utd.com as I think it makes perfect sense
February 26th, 2008 at 18:01
Eeeehhh???
Very interesting article Penguin!
But I think midfield players also have other attributes which are equally important for their performance, if we take that “statistics from football manager” approach, for instance something like Stamina and Pace, the capacity to sustain an exerting match and deliver performance. So I would have added an “Energy” attribute.
I mostly agree with your ratings though except for a few attributes:
Paul Scholes
Tackling – 3/10 – nuff said
Ball Rentention – 10/10 – ok I totally concur with ya.
Creativity – 6/10 – you mentioned Milan 1st leg, but that was last season and just one blip of talent in a season in which he was generally underpar.
Goal-scoring – 4/10 – Nowadays plays so deep that I dont see him scoring more than Rio.
Energy – 5/10 – If fit can do the job
Owen Hargreaves
Tackling – 8/10 – ok
Ball Rentention – 7/10 – yep.
Creativity – 4/10 – right
Goal-scoring – 3/10 – has some potential. In fact i consider him to be a better free kick taker than Ronnie. Would grognard confirm that for me?
Energy – 6/10 – we are still waiting for a repeat of those juggernaut performances of the WC. If he was fully fit I would have given him a 9/10
Michael Carrick
Tackling – 6/10 – i’m harsh i know
Ball Rentention – 7/10 – needs to learn to control the pace of the game. plays well when someone does it alongside him.
Creativity – 9/10 – oh ya!
Goal-scoring – 4/10 – agreed
Energy – 7/10 – hmm
Anderson
Tackling – 7.5/10 – good lad
Ball Rentention – 7.5/10 – has huge potential to control a game. Only I think the fact that he’s still young and was just recently offensive midfield makes it that he will often go for fancy attacking football instead of temperance when needed.
Creativity – 8/10 – yep. Dribbling and passing.
Goal-scoring – 4/10 – his record doesnt speak for him but if played in a more advance position I think he would bang them in.
Energy – 9/10 – at first i thought he was the new edgar davids!
Now i’m tired typing! of course complementarity plays a huge part but i’ll leave that to others!
My two coins go for (as i think most of you do) Anderson and Carrick.
February 26th, 2008 at 18:17
Anderson and carrick for teams like fulham,newcastle and anderson hargo for arsenal,chelsea.And no giggs.Can u imagine how great next seasons gonna be with seven subs?
February 26th, 2008 at 18:21
andy and any cm apart from scholes would be my cm pairing.
February 26th, 2008 at 18:27
@NicoQB
Did i just read that right. You have apparently stated that beside that one moment of pure genius against Milan, Scholes was underpar last season. You’ve got to be shitting yourself to believe that.
He was the guy who ran the show last year and was our best player after Ronaldo.
Just had to get that off my chest.
Anyways, in my book Sir Alex will stick with Anderson in most games because he recognises the guy possesses sheer class. Along side him who pays will depend on the opponent.
Against the big teams especially away from home i honestly believe Hargreaves should start to give the back 4 some sort of protection. But when we’re at home I hope Sir Alex goes with Carrick. I have always been a fan of the guy, he is an exceptionally calm guy and his distribution is quite stunning.His range of passing will definitely help us to break down teams which shut up shop in front of goal.
Scholes on the other hand can be played when we want to slow the game or run the clock down because as we all know Scholesy is the master at keeping the ball.We can also use him as an impact player when we’re down and need to turn things around.On the odd occasion when Carrick is injured you’ve got in him a class midfielder who can fill in from the start as well.I definitely feel he still has a lot to offer for the next couple of years
February 26th, 2008 at 18:37
Well written Penguin, but it amazes me how quickly some of the people (not taking names here) who’ve been on Carrick’s back have now started elevating him to an exalted level, almost to the point of putting Scholes down. Suddenly he [Scholes] had “no role to play last season, and carrick ran the show” has become the buzzword.
Oh well, they say fans are a fickle bunch, don’t they?
February 26th, 2008 at 19:07
Hmmm, Am I suffering from memory lapses???
I’ll held my hands up, and make my mea culpa. Scholes was in the EPL team of the year last season!!
How could I have forgot that???
Still I don’t think it likely he will ever regain the form to be “world class”. OK, he might come up as “good”, even “very good” if we’re lucky for the rest of the season.
Let’s just hope I’m wrong because I love the guy.
February 26th, 2008 at 19:10
@RR
I agree that short term memories can have too much influence. When Carrick went through a bad patch at the start of this season, people forgot his consistently high standard last season and called for him to be sold. Now, he’s put in a run of games at his old levels and he’s the best thing since sliced bread.
Last season, there’s no doubt in my mind that Scholes was the sorceror and Carrick was firmly the apprentice. But Scholes is falling away now (and I don’t think is currently 100% fit either), and I take issue with the cliched talking heads who say “he’s as good as he was”. Scholes himself said he is nothing like the player he was 5 years ago, and the key evidence of that is the number of goals he scores from inside the area. That used to be his forte, ghosting into the box unmarked, but he hardly ever does it now because he doesn’t have the legs to get back quickly enough. Similar to Keano in his final phase, when he stopped being a box-to-box player and started being a shielding player.
Unfortunately, giving undue weight to what’s happened most recently is human nature.
February 26th, 2008 at 19:22
Yea you nailed it right on with your last comment Penguin.
Again, I was not trying to demean Scholes. My bad if the words “under par” looked harsh pertaining to the message I was trying to convey.
Peace, as brothers say…
February 26th, 2008 at 19:23
I still think scholes is our best midfielder and he’s my first choice. Don’t know who to play next to him. I like both anderson and hargreaves. Carrick’s OK and is in form but still my fourth choice.
February 26th, 2008 at 19:28
as much as i hate to admit it, carrick=class and based on current form is the second best cm we have, he has really matured this season and has a claim to the 1st team.
scholes was good last season, but i to thought that he wasn’t really the same player. he has over-matured, and now instead of a cam like he was in the 90s and early 00s he is now a dictator of the game and decides the tempo.
February 26th, 2008 at 19:39
First off let me address this negativity towards Owen Hargreaves not so much for his play but what he cost? You all were a lot more patient than myself when the same argument came up early in the year regarding Carrick. Now even I have turned my views around and have become an avid supporter of Carrick in the starting eleven. Hargo has battled an injury since his arrival. He has never played at 100% fitness all season. Nobody it seems wants to take that fact into consideration. Hargo is not only a great player at his position, he is great leader who would be highly considered captain material had his tenure with the club been longer. Few CDM’s in the game have the ability to tackle and follow opponents in a game and risk very few yellow or red cards. He is efficient, yet a very clean player. His offensive skills are greatly undervalued by many of you and especially Red Ranter who unlike myself has not followed Bayern Munich with the same attention and exuberance and therefore hasn’t seen Hargos offensive skills on display. I for one can tell you that when fully healthy and comfortable with his role, Hargo is a much better offensive passer, creator and scorer. True most of his goals come from free kicks but he has set up a lot in the past and his creativity should warrant at least a 6-10. His goal scoring and shot is so much better than Anderson’s that your ratings of the two is an absolute joke. Hargo is 3-10 while right now Anderson is lucky to not get negative numbers. He warrants a zero because he has taken very few shots and most of the shots are weak and woefully off target. He needs to improve in many areas of striking a ball. Lets give Hargo the same patience we gave Carrick and especially Vidic who if you remember looked pretty ordinary for his first season at United.
My ratings of the four players in question:
Paul Scholes
Tackling – 2/10 – An embarrassment in this department plain and simple.
Ball Rentention – 8/10 – Used to be a ten but now he gets tackled off the ball much more so and his retention borders on cowardice and lack of ambition. He is now known as The Back Pass Kid.
Creativity – 6/10 – Again used to be a 9 but based on his form of the past two seasons, he has been very mediocre at best. Rarely gives us that cutting through ball he used to be known for. His hunger for goal scoring and forging forward seems to have dried up. Still his smarts out there are second to none. Now if he would play more horizontally rather than vertically.
Goal-scoring – 5/10 – Always a threat but his lack of forward ambition is keeping him from making a stronger statement. Maybe it’s because he just can’t do it anymore.
Other – Has gotten old and much slower of foot. Still offers great stability and experience and should be around for the odd start and a subs role. He will make a great mentor to others. SCORE 21/40
Owen Hargreaves
Tackling – 10/10 – Simply very few in the world can even compare to his terrier like skill to stay with players and to dispossess them of the ball without fouling hard or often.
Ball Rentention – 7/10 – Makes the safe pass more often than the dangerous one but he does occasionally display a brave side and that occasionally leads to a goal or a mistake.
Creativity – 6/10 – At this point he has not shown his ability to make forward passes that cut open a defense. I have seen him do it and his direct and indirect free kicks are full of skill and creative touches. Be patient and you will see some except for Ronaldo’s insistence on taking all of the chances.
Goal-scoring – 3/10 In his position he will not get a lot of goal scoring chances but he has a very good shot and he does have some attacking instinct. Of course his free kick ability is arguably better than Ronaldo’s, if he could get few chances to show that he can score from it as well. Not his fault.
Other – He is a pit bull out there with limitless energy. He never stops working and his transition from defense to offense is very good. His style is best suited for Europe where the ball is played mostly on the ground and through the middle. At full health, he will get rave reviews, unfortunately his injury history has caused problems and may continue to do so. SCORE 26/40
Michael Carrick
Tackling – 8/10 – He has won me over on his ability to break up plays and to make strong yet clean tackles. His slow feet though do cause some problems when he has to keep up with a speed burner.
Ball Rentention – 8/10 – Like Scholes he makes the intelligent choice over the bold one more often than not but lately his offensive genius has really begun to sparkle. Forward runs and beautiful long passes have become expected and plentiful. Still, he does play to caution more often than not and therefore safety is his key ambition. Like Scholes he does get tackled off the ball a bit due to slow feet.
Creativity – 9/10 – What else can I add. The lad has tremendous vision and his passes not only creative and sublime, but they cut open defenses with Jack the Ripper precision. His ball to Nani a few weeks back and his ball for Ronaldo this past Saturday make my point.
Now if he adds consistency to this creative arsenal (bad word), then we have an awesome player wearing Red.
Goal-scoring – 4/10 – He is capable of scoring some nice goals and an occasional cracker. He doesn’t take enough shots and quite often his slow feet cause shots to be blocked or he is tackled just before unleashing one. Room for improvement but certainly not bad at this.
Other – If he adds some grit and consistency to his game he can become not only a first team staple for United, but the straw that stirs the drink for England too. Capello take notice, the heir to the Lampard throne has arrived. SCORE 29/40
Darren Fletcher
Tackling – 7/10 – Very efficient but slow of foot. Strong desire and work rate.
Ball Retention – 6/10 – Is improving his dribbling skills and even his pace seems to have increased in the past few weeks. Occasionally is prone to a horrible pass though.
Creativity – 5/10 – Not a genius in the Carrick or Young Scholes mode but certainly is capable of some nice crosses and long balls that find their targets. He is composed and he does see the field well.
Goal Scoring – 5/10 – Surprisingly strong and streaky in this area. He has always shown ability to head the ball so lets not just assume it because of the Arsenal game. Has a knack for scoring in big games. His shot is decent but his lack of quickness often takes away clear cut chances.
Other – Wears the heart of Scotland and is is the ultimate team player as he accepts his limited role with enthusiasm and never complains. He is a proud Red Devil and his attitude is second to none. Not a starter but valuable none the less. If he was a starter he would be a great candidate for captain. SCORE 23/40
Anderson
Tackling – 7/10 – Has surprises me with his tenacity and ability and willingness to track back. Prone to the occasional careless tackle but quite often wins the ball cleanly and then begins a strong transition game.
Ball Retention – 8/10 – He is very hard to move of the ball and dispossess. Protects the ball well and distributes it aggressively and with courage. Quite often tries to do too much. Dribbles very well with the ball and at a very high speed. Needs to look up more as he often is caught with his head down looking at the ball.
Creativity – 7/10 – The potential here is great. His youth means he has a long way to go before he reaches his peak. His long passes are penetrating and accurate but he needs to work on his short passes. More intelligence needed and less bravery at times. Needs to incorporate some shooting to better free up his passing lanes. Defenses are not gearing up to stop his shooting right now. Shows little creativity when it comes to scoring goals and his play sometimes reminds one of an offensive minded CDM. I have yet to see the comparison to Ronaldinho as he is not nearly as nimble and creative with the ball as the Barca ace.
Goal Scoring – 0/10 – I’m not being mean but he has shown me very little instinct or natural goal scoring ability. His shot is woefully inaccurate and mechanically unsound. He has no goal scoring instinct or desire. He quite often passes up a good chance and distributes the ball instead. Lately he has taken more shots but with little to show for the effort. His shot also is not that strong when it comes to pace. Loads of room for improvement here
Other – The future is bright but as much as I like this player, I think he has been billed as a future Ronaldinho, which he is not. Loads of talent, pace and determination and mentoring from Scholes and Fergie will turn this kid into something special I hope.
SCORE 22/40
There you have it. I’m sure there will be many of you who disagree, but that’s fine. It’s my opinion based on my knowledge and observation of the players. Nobody can ever accuse me of being anti-Carrick any longer. Right now the lineup I prefer is
EVDS
BROWN-RIO-VIDIC-EVRA
HARGREAVES
RONALDO-CARRICK-NANI
ROONEY-TEVEZ’
Subs: Foster, Giggs, Anderson, O’Shea, Saha
Sorry Scholes supporters.
February 26th, 2008 at 19:44
i like the look of carrick and anderson both look to get the ball forward and after all that is what we are famous for
February 26th, 2008 at 20:09
Yep I mostly agree with Grognard on his analysis.
Just quick checked Andersons statistics in previous leagues, if wiki is to be believed, he didnt score many goals. 1 for Gremio, 2 for Porto.
Shame about that, we was about to get *the* complete CM. Let’s hope he does impove.
Fletcher, I don’t know. He too can be prone to erratic displays. He’s playing well right now, and does generally well against strong oppposition. But does he deliver high standards against middle class opposition? If he can deliver consistently, he will win me over.
He’s good to have on the bench. But! Does he makes an impact to a match when he comes off the bench? (Like Ole, Carlos, Nani..) I mght be wrong but it seems to me he makes more of an impact when he starts a full game…
February 26th, 2008 at 20:22
[Grognard]
Where, pray, Grognard, have I put Hargreaves down? A little unfair accusation don’t you think?
Here have a look at this comment I posted two articles ago. Be a little fair on me Groggy!
February 26th, 2008 at 21:19
Well said RR :Just afew months back everyone were behind carick’s back saying he was rubbish and that
we should swap him for berbatov ,Now the jury is out on scholes who arguably was instrumental
in winning the league last year..Even Thiery Henry told that Scholes was the best united player
last year and that he would vote for him to win the footballer of the year award ahead of ronaldo…
YUP its true Fans here can be a fickle bunch…
February 26th, 2008 at 21:25
Red Ranter; I never claimed that you put him down, only that you undervalued his offensive capabilities. He is a much better scorer than Anderson (check your ratings for both) and his creative play is very underrated by you because simply put, you have not had the chance to watch him as much as I have while he was at Bayern. No put down, just disagree with your under evaluation of him in some of the categories. I have no disagreement of your overall evaluation and confidence in the player. In fact I applaud you for seeing his contribution and potential for the club.
Nico; Not fair to compare Fletcher’s defense first contributions off the bench to the offense only Ole, Tevez and Nani. Thats like comparing O’Shea to Rooney on creativity. More fair is to compare him to his positional counterparts I say.
February 26th, 2008 at 21:41
I think this article highlights many interesting points. Firstly we all have a different first choice, which is good, it shows we have a good squad.
But also how as fans we are very fickle. To a large extent we base our opinion on the last 6 or so matches. How many people would be picking Carrick a few months back. Anderson and Hargreves are new, they’ve not necessarially had time to go through a good/bad patch of form. Is Carrick really as good as he has shown in the last few games, Im not sure, I really can’t decide if he is. And how would Anderson perform without an experienced head next to him? How would Scholes perform if fully fit, same goes for Hargreves?
We shouldn’t forgot, class is permanent form is temporary.
February 26th, 2008 at 21:42
Grognard,red ranter didnt write the article.penguin did
February 26th, 2008 at 21:48
Oh and grog anderson can shoot.Watched him(like you did hargo) in a few champs league games and he has a rocket left foot,mark my words!and how can hargreaves get more goal scoring points than andy.Anderson almost scored twice against spurs and pompey.Anderson our 4th best midfielder overall behind fletcher? considering the amount of games fletch and hargo have played?hmmm…
February 26th, 2008 at 21:50
and BTW i’v got to see carrick perform in big european matches against the likes of gattuso
or say any of the big boys from europe let him prove himself this year against tough opposition
then i think you guys can draw any kind of comparison ..ofcourse he was outstanding against
arsenal and new castle and arsenal were a different team that day while newcastle are relegation
contenders so guys lets wait till the end of the season to judge everyone’s performance
I am not saying carrick is a bad player but we can’t compare him with scholes yet….and i feel andy can be a good all round player for us…
February 26th, 2008 at 22:03
Some goal scoring stats to chew over
Prior to this season:
Hargreaves – 211 games, 10 goals or 1 goal every 21 games.
Anderson – 23 games, 3 goals or 1 goal every 8 games.
Carrick – 204 games, 11 goals or 1 goal every 18.5 games.
February 26th, 2008 at 22:12
JB: you are a Genius thanks for the statistics Take that Mr.GROGNARD(you of all people are criticizing our
ginger ninja)and do u know what GROGNARD stands for (an old soldier in Napolean’s old guard)well
isn’t this ironic one old guard denouncing another “”hmmm food for thought i guess!!!
February 26th, 2008 at 22:37
Just to put this out there, Carrick began his footballing days with West Ham (youth) as a Centre Foward. He seems to have a decent shot on him, especially from long range. Why doesn’t this lad shoot more? Obviously he likes to play deep but he could just take a few shots a game at least.
February 26th, 2008 at 22:46
Hey hey hey,gary neville played 60 mins showin “no ill effects”.maybe just maybe.
February 26th, 2008 at 23:21
Maybe just maybe he’ll be ready for the Premier League by April…
Btw, loving all of your articles Penguin. Keep it up!
February 27th, 2008 at 0:30
Sorry to disagre with the majority of you but Paul Scholes is first choice for me and would still be one of the first names on the team sheet. He is a class above the rest of the centre midfielders we have and whilst we will see Carrick and Anderson take over in the next couple of seasons Scholes is still the man. He was the 2nd best player in the league last season after Ronaldo but most of you seem to have forgotten that. He has barely been back a month from his knee injury but everyone is saying he as lost it! Absolute crap!
Then again you lot change your minds on players all the time so doesnt suprise me, u lot will be praising him soon no doubt….
February 27th, 2008 at 0:35
Sorry to disagre with the majority of you but Paul Scholes is first choice for me and would still be one of the first names on the team sheet. He is a class above the rest of the centre midfielders we have and whilst we will see Carrick and Anderson take over in the next couple of seasons Scholes is still the man. He was the 2nd best player in the league last season after Ronaldo but most of you seem to have forgotten that. He has barely been back a month from his knee injury but everyone is saying he as lost it! Absolute crap!
Then again you lot change your minds on players all the time so doesnt suprise me, u lot will be praising him soon no doubt….
February 27th, 2008 at 0:49
[Grognard]
I understand, although I didn’t write the article above — like someone else pointed out. That was where the confusion came from. Oh well, from my side though, I like Hargo.
[manuforlife]
Quit the trash talk, mate. Your personal attack on Grognard’s name was entirely unnecessary. And if you have been on this site earlier, he has pretty much made the inspiration behind his name clear — he is a Napolean fanatic, if my memory serves me right. And Grognard, I hope you wouldn’t need to respond to his attack, now that I’ve gotten the message across.
And everyone, there’s nothing wrong being a realist and saying that Scholes’ time at the club is numbered — as JB earlier said, Fergie does get misty eyed about his class of ‘94 (with age). But trashing the ninja entirely is something I feel bad about. For fuck’s sake, if someone were to read this thread for the first time he’d think Scholes was a Djemba-Djemba!
February 27th, 2008 at 1:13
It amazes me how there are people out there who think my real name is Grognard. As if I don’t know what Grognard means. Big difference between Napoleon’s Grognards (The Old Guard) and Scholes is that they were the elite veteran soldiers saved for the end of every battle. Scholes is just old and ineffective in every battle. God love him but it’s time to hang up the cleats and take a seat next to the Grognard trashing the views of posts on this site that think too much with their hearts and not their minds. I wish some of you would wake the hell up and realize that it’s time for new blood at some positions and that we cannot live in 1994 forever.
About Hargreaves; Typical of JB to go looking for stats but the point is this, I’ve seen Hargreaves goals, and most of them were fantastic in quality. Anderson’s I haven’t seen and from what I have seen, he has a hard time hitting the side of a barn door from three feet.
Carrick also hasn’t scored a lot of goals because he is always busy passing the ball but the quality of many of his goals is of the highest order. If anyone out there has any video of Anderson not only scoring a goal, but scoring against good opposition then maybe I’ll give him a 1/10. Rating Hargreaves 3/10 and Carrick 4/10 in scoring is based upon their position and is not to be compared with a striker.
Red Ranter; Thanks to you I won’t respond to the childish attack from Manuforlife. And sorry I wasn’t reading carefully enough to notice you weren’t the author of the article. And finally, comparing Scholes to Djemba Djemba is woefully unfair and disservice to Djemba Djemba who was far superior in class. OK! OK! RELAX! I was only joking people. HA! HA! HA! All I’m saying is that I have detected some grey in the roots of the Ginger Ninja.
February 27th, 2008 at 2:01
Carrick holds the key.. he is an amazing passer of the ball and a good tackler.. he can score (he has scored the most among the four CM this season!!)… We should not overlook Fletcher too… even though he is an average player.. that guy has everything.. GOOD HEADING (sth only Ronaldo and Vidic provides), good in defence, versatile, passing….
February 27th, 2008 at 2:53
manuforlife – Stats are always good and no body said that Anderson is a bad player. He still has areas of improvement and will certainly be a better player one day.
If you go by stats you have to consider that
Hargreaves – played for Bayern (Europe/Bundesliga) – Central M – scored 10 goals
Carrick – played for West ham/Spurs/Utd(EPL) – Central M – scored 11 goals
If the information is correct, which i am not sure
Anderson – played for Gremio/Porto(Brazilian league/Portugese Liga) – Attacking M or Forward – scored 3 goals.
We have to read those stats on this basis. Moreover Hargo/Carrick was not brought to boost our goal scroing abilities. Carrick due to his creativity and experience in EPL. Hargreaves for his tenacity,engine and tackling ability. Everyone in a team has their role to play
Anderson has a role to play that in future he will be one of the stars in United midfield pushing an aging Carrick/Hargo onto the bench. But to reach there he still have to improve on lot many things. He had shown potential and Fergie dint pay 17m for fun….
I still admire Scholes just for one thing these 3 midfielders lack in or havent shown us yet..those long range screamers. He is so good at it and will always be…..
C.Ronaldo was also very weak in shooting when he came here in OT and look 3 seasons down he is topping the charts. Lets just wait and watch where things go.
February 27th, 2008 at 3:39
I disagree with this article and some of the comments here.
Football shouldn’t and cannot be reduced to a couple of simple statistics as if they can fully quantify a player’s ability and value to the team. Doing so risks over-simplying a player’s value and contribution to the team. It also fails to take into account other important, but less visible factors such as form, composure, experience. Even simple things such as language ability plays an important part in football. Those of you who play football regularly do know that communication on the pitch is important. It is highly possible that the reason why Fergie does not play Nani and Anderson as often as most fans would like is that both do not speak English well.
Another important attribute that has always been overlooked is leadership. It’s easy to pick a formation and say when you’re 2-0 or 3-0 up, bring on a lesser player. All managers would love to be in that situation. But the reality is that managers have to plan for a line-up that can come back from being 1 or even 2 goals down in the first 10-15 minutes of the game. Again, those of you who play football will know how demoralizing it is to play well and then concede a goal through a lapse of concentration. In these situations, it’s not simply throwing in another attacker. You need a leader on the pitch to be able to motivate the players and drive the team. Can Anderson and Carrick do that? I don’t know exactly but it doesn’t appear so given their limited language ability.
You also need players with experience to know how to remain composed, and keep playing, and not make rash decisions due to increasing frustration. Does Nani and Anderson possess enough experience do be able to do that? I don’t know but I would imagine that given a choice between Giggs and Scholes who have played for so many years and won plenty of titles under Fergie, and Nani and Anderson in their ‘rookie’ years with Man Utd, I think Fergie would favor players whom he has relied on in the past because the chances of them performing well under pressure is higher than not.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of Nani and Anderson’s footballing abilities and I’m sure they’ll turn out to be excellent players in the next 1-2 years. But I do think that Giggs and Scholes’ value have been underestimated simply because their value and contribution is not easily quantifiable and assessable by the average fan.
I hope people will start realizing that selecting a line-up is not as easy as it appears. It’s easy to put down 11 names on the team sheet – all of you are capable of doing that. The hard part is getting those 11 guys to do well on the pitch. The hard part is ensuring that those 11 guys can link up and play together as a team for 90 minutes under immense pressure in front of 70,000-plus fans. The hard part is ensuring that the rest of the 7-8 players left out continue to remain motivated, remain match fit, so that when they are called upon, they can perform at the highest level. And all this has to be done over a long season with 50-plus games and keeping up the consistency and trying to win every game. That’s what football management is about.
February 27th, 2008 at 3:45
In case anyone misunderstands – ’statistics’ in my rant, refers to ratings given for passing, shooting, scoring, etc. Not JB’s statistics.
February 27th, 2008 at 3:54
Carrick and Anderson as our first choice partnership, throwing Hargreaves in if we require a three man midfield say in Europe. Seems a simple solution to the midfield dilemna.
The problem is how does Scholes fit in. In his prime he would have been untouchable. But he has deteriorated over the years. The loss of pace is less of an issue as it is not a huge part of his game, but I have noticed he does not get forward as much as he did in his prime, or score anywhere near as many, so the offensive part of his game is reduced.
But he is still a class act as he showed last season.
The real issue is he hasn’t hit top form this season, most likely because of his early injury, while Anderson and Carrick are the form players.
When he does hit top form it will be difficult to leave him out which is when the real dilemna starts!
February 27th, 2008 at 4:25
@ Nino; i hear what your saying i would probably play scholes in champions league final… but not giggs… atm he is giving the ball away far to much which is unacceptable.
@ RedRanter; Can understand what your saying about how us fans can be a fickle bunch, but you got to look at it from a Managers point of view… you play players in form and not on reputations. ATM Carricks hot and Scholes is not.
@ Grognard; Seen as though you have followed Bayern’s games can you please tell me if Lahm offers a great deal going forward? and is he tough in the tackle? Also seen Ajax v NAC on the weekend and i know you can’t judge a player on a few games but i just think Huntelaar is to slow for our team especially in the modern game and there really isn’t enough room in our team for an out and out striker who only scores goals and does nothing else in terms of chasing defenders, link up play ect… just a thought…
February 27th, 2008 at 4:30
[Shannon]
I mean, shouldn’t fans see things from fan’s perspective?
Fair enough. Then if we all fans start looking at it from a manager’s perspective, then who will be left to see it from a fan’s perspective?
February 27th, 2008 at 4:32
Getting a little crazy for me …
See it how you want to see it brother
February 27th, 2008 at 4:35
also @ Grumpy old Grognard; Favouring a player because they are from the same birth place as you is not racism. However i’m glad he plays for England rather than Canada. Canada suck as a footballing nation. *Note that isn’t being racist either you sensitive man.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:34
Some of those comments have left me scratching my head… but anyway i think moving along is the best thing to do. Ahh Carrick. My favourite person. I have to admit that I have started to take a little notice of carrick and not head straight to the bar when i see his name on the team sheet for an extra few misery pints. His goal against man city was smooth and a rather delightful finish. But at the moment im still thinking that he hasnt done, when the going is tough to truly win me over but i do see a bit more of what a lot people were ranting about earlier in the season. But maybe he has just seen the light and realised that more than 2 out of 10 passes must go forward for him to be effective. If this is the case then as someone mentioned earlier i think england will finally have a really good cm pairing as he will fit in well we gerrard, and allow the national team to play real football. There is a lot of hope in these sentences. But who knows…
Im quite mystified at the abuse Scholes and Hargreaves have both recieved. Both have been injured and are struggling for a bit of touch. Like Rooney, out of form for a small while and people are calling for heads. People please. Hargreaves is as good a cdm as there is currently in the world. Yes hes not quite match fit and not in top form but these will both come. The success of liverpool in the champions league in the last 2 years, a great example is against inter, is the role of mascherano. It hurts to say this but he is a fine yet still annoying player. Hargreaves offers more to the team than he does. Hargreaves will be huge for us. And paul scholes can and does offer our team a experienced camapigner. I think he needs to be saved for big games aka maldini. A well rested scholes who is able to find a bit of form is one of the most vital factors in our quest for 3 x success.
Our strongest midfield pairing atm, based on form would have to be carrick and anderson. But if we go a goal or 2 up against lyon i think owen should be put on to counter benzemas attacking poweress. Red ranter is right about fans flicking between players so quickly. Dont make rash decisions aka rooney should be sold, decide over a period of time, its never wise to write off experience.
February 27th, 2008 at 6:53
WoW ! The very matter of fact we are trying to analyze the best combo shows the quality of the 5 players …
Each one is unique and posses something totally different .
However Scholes IS THE ONE!
Many people here quote that he wont get upfront often etc . etc. It is like a Circle of Blame …
First Carrick then Nani then Fletcher then Hargo now the god Scholes ..
He may shoot less often however no one strikes better than him .. All he needs is just more time on the pitch then we can find some one else to blame ….
For all those Hargo haters , have u seen the Pool match ? He kept Torres silent the entire match . His body challenges and tackles are excellent .He just needs to have little more time and he will be back .. I still think Fergie will start with him and Andy against the Big3 and Ucl matches (Home)….
Grognard mate i agree with u with regards to Hargo`s shooting ability however i dont agree with ur take on Andy`s shooting.
The problem with Andy is that he as well as Fergie knows he is the Nitrous Oxide of our team .He is the ROoney of our Mid-field.The way he heads the ball to Rooney in the arse game even though Fabgas legs were after the ball shows the quality and commitment of the player.He always feels the need to push on ! His passes to Rooney in arsenal match were superb.Did u see the instinctive strike of a corner however it was direct at Lehman .However one thing is for sure he is a true world class player …
Fletcher may not be as good as the other 4 however as a mid-fielder he posses something which others don’t . Ability to cross and head the ball ..
However there are some cons in one way or other .
Andy – Over excited ! Feels the need to convert defense into attack with in a sec ! However this is also a great quality .. He just needs more time …
Carrick- He has to shoot more .. He has to improve on that department . However with the way our style of play is and that too with Nani upfront instead of Giggs i don’t see our Mid-fielders scoring a hell lot !
Hargo – True Class DM ! However if u see closely when he is in possession of ball in attack he covers a huge part of the ground before making a pass .. Occasional silly fouls outside the box like Evra
Fletcher – All the four are great ! This guy will become great ! His crosses are something to watch out for in the end of the season !
Scholes – He loves tackles
February 27th, 2008 at 7:20
Shannon; I’m sensitive? You basically accused me of siding with Hargreaves because he and I come from the same country. That was simply out of line. And you don’t have to tell me how bad Canada is as footballing nation. Nevertheless their are many like me who love the game and support clubs outside of Canada as well as nations. My two teams are Manchester United and Bayern and the nation I support is Germany. So throwing Canada in my face and calling me a homer regarding Hargo is just stupid and insulting. Still, I’m sure you didn’t mean to offend, but I thought I ‘d clear up your misconceptions about me and my allegiances.
Now regarding Lahm, obviously you don’t follow Bayern and you didn’t notice that Lahm was one of the best players at the last World Cup. He has great speed and dribbling ability, a good long passer and playmaker as well, he has an outstanding shot and has a lot of finesse to his game. He is a good if not excellent tackler but is outstanding at staying with his man. He can play world class at both LWB or RWB and is an adequate crosser of the ball. His pace and vision are his key attributes and only a habit of getting minor injuries should be seen as a negative. For me he is the best wingback in the world and can only get better.
February 27th, 2008 at 7:59
and at about 24 years old he would fit into Fergie’s age policy… It would seem he would fit in perfectly well as our RWB and if need be LWB as cover for Evra with Simpson coming in every time Evra is injured…
Midfield as we can all see if brimming with talent and i’m not so sure we will need to add a stiker given that Manuch could be anything.
February 27th, 2008 at 8:21
a team should be selected on recent form, carrick is on form and it would be unfair to not start him, scholes should earn his place back not that he daint get opportunities to do that.
lastly fergy should avoid the temptation of rotation jus for the sake of making individuals happy, we all know thats what has cost the dippers, so fergy should have a consistent starting 11..
and those who are of the thought that funs here are fickle, and changes with whatever direction the wind blows, should know that all we are asking for is for a team that will perform, not individuals who get played because they are old gurads or whateva else you guyz keep on saying, and it should be known that we have nothing personal against giggz or scholes, is only that we feel jus like carrick has proved he can play and play well, they should also do rthe same, not expect to be played jus to break some record..
February 27th, 2008 at 8:36
HERE HERE!!
February 27th, 2008 at 9:39
[manutd jaluo]
That’s your opinion mate. But a lot of fans are fickle. Not just United fans, but fans in general. It’s in our very nature. But then I digress. Oh well, to each one his own.
February 27th, 2008 at 13:36
RR,, YO right, its my opinion..and i ges thats why am entitled to it and i got the freedom to post it..my opinion as well as yours, may not be right.
February 27th, 2008 at 16:35
(Grognard)
Lahm is excellent going forward but he isn’t the best at defending. He’s certainly not excellent at staying with his man.
February 27th, 2008 at 16:46
Fergie keep tinkering. It wins trophies, when you have a lot of squad depth
February 27th, 2008 at 16:57
i think that some of you have written off scholesy far too soon. yes just like giggs, he is on the decline. but he certainly has alot more to offer. unlike in the past, he doesn’t get forward as much as we would like, but as a carrick ’supporter’ i dare say scholesy’s passing and vision is still better than that of carricks.
perhaps like hargo, hes season has been disrupted with injuries and surgery, but its just a matter of time and getting games under their belt that they come good for us once again.
Hargo has shown, not only during his time at bayern, but also during the start of this season, that he can be a class act for us. for me, he was the man of the match in the games he played, that is before he went in and out due to injuries.
as for scholesy, he was one of the best player last season. he is class. i have to agree hes form recently have been nothing near to what he is capable of producing. but i have absolutely no doubt he will be a match winner or the vital key for us at some point from now til the end of the season.
to be honest, i felt insulted when people can tag him as ‘the back pass kid’. im sorry but thats rubbish.
February 27th, 2008 at 17:14
Tevez; You may caught a few isolated case of Lahm not keeping up on his opponent but I for one believe he is very good at one on one marking, especially if it’s a speedy opponent. It’s his tackling that needs more work as he is not physical enough and thus, bigger and taller players sometimes have their way with him as they do with Evra. He keeps crosses from coming in to the box well too. Sorry but I have to disagree a bit. Still, I keep reading that United are also interested in Bosingwa too. He would come cheaper with less competition from other clubs. I wouldn’t mind. As much as I love United, I am also a Bayern supporter and I’d prefer to see Lahm stay put under Klinsmann. If he does go though, I hope it is to OT.
February 27th, 2008 at 18:22
I have seen enough of lahm to know he’s not the best defender. He is very small and at his weight i wouldn’t expect him to go into 50-50 tackles. The problem is that i simply don’t think he’s a good defender. Look at clichy for arsenal. He is the best left back in the premiership and is a quality defender. He isn’t particularly well built but there’s not many people get past him. I also think gary neville is a better player than lahm anyway, as is evra.
February 27th, 2008 at 18:45
Tevez from that last comment, it seems you are judging him on physical appearance rather than actual defensive ability, and I’m fairly sure you don’t watch as many Bayern Munich matches as Grognard and although you may have seen him play plenty of times for Germany in the World Cup etc. you don’t have the first-hand experience of how good Lahm is that Grognard does. Lahhm would bring alot to our team that we are missing right now in the RB position – pace, crossing ability, shooting ability and stamina; he’s like a young Gary Neville who can shoot, and I think he’s our best option for buying a new right back, because I actually took an interest in Bosingwa’s games and he seems to be a good defender and an even better attacker, but he’s not as good as Lahm.
February 27th, 2008 at 21:35
Redd75 mentioned a very notable point about experience of players.
So it would be ok to start one veteran of the two in question, Scholes and Giggs, and keep the enthusiasm and pace of the youth.
Preferably I’d prefer to see Scholes starting as though he’s performance levels are slowly dipping, it’s not as obvious as it is in the case of Giggs.
Its good that Giggs has started the coaching courses thing. It might be that even him is acknoledging at some level that he’ll soon be leaving the game.
Once again, observing that players are not playing well, or as well as they should be, is not “slating”. Scholes and Giggs are footballing [insert superlatives] and it seems to me the day when they finally retire people will be queuing up to laud modern legends.
It will not be a disgrace to use them more and more sparingly.
February 27th, 2008 at 21:51
Conor, no i’m dismissing his physical appearance – it doesn’t bother me that he is not tall or strong and go into 50-50 tackles. That’s fine. It is his actual defensive ability that is suspect. Like i said, i’ve seen enough of him to make judgement. After you’ve seen a player enough you get an idea of how he plays. Also, i don’t trust grognards judgement.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:15
as for me i would pick carrick anderson and hargreaves to play a 3 midfield formation with anderson supporting 3 attackers consisting of tevez rooney and ronaldo.hoho..ronaldo can attack from the right or been given free role or all of the 3 attackers have a free role..i think even barca can’t contain us if SAF opts to play this..hoho
March 1st, 2008 at 14:32
Hargo is only useful when we play strong attacking teams, otherwise he’d be shit. yes he breaks up play really well, including his own team’s.
thats the sad fact