Sep 02
van Persie from Sinner to Saint at St Mary’s
Robin Van Persie scored an injury time winner as Manchester United clinched a hard-fought 3-2 win at Southampton.
The Dutch striker had missed the chance to equalise with his club 2-1 down as he fluffed his line from the penalty spot with 20 minutes left but made amend with the clock ticking down as he converted Nani’s corner with a brilliant header to send the United end berserk.
While Fergie will celebrate a win in his 1000th league game in charge of United, Nigel Adkins and Southampton will feel hard done by as they were three minutes away to claim a famous victory – their first since their return to the top-flight.
The Premier League new boys twice went ahead through headers from Rickie Lambert and Morgan Schneiderlin but had to surrender to RVP’s brilliance which only partly masked United’s awful day at the office in midfield and the desperate need for a replacement for Patrice Evra.
On the day he reached another milestone in his United career Fergie opted to drop David De Gea in favour of Anders Lindegaard with Rio Ferdinand making an unexpected return in the heart of United’s back four alongside Nemanja Vidic – the first time they took the field together since December 2011 – Rafael and Evra.
Following his spells at centre-back against Everton and Fulham, Michael Carrick regained his usual spot in midfield – flanked by Shinji Kagawa and Tom Cleverley – with Danny Welbeck and Antonio Valencia deployed out wide in support of Robin Van Persie.
Despite Welbeck’s clear adversity at being played on the flank, United had the better of the home side in the opening exchanges but the feel good vibe lasted for just 15 minutes as Rickie Lambert headed Southampton in front.
United’s midfield lacked tempo and Kagawa was easily dispossessed before Evra continued his habit of allowing his opponent too much space on the ball as Puncheon delivered a brilliant ball for Lambert who climbed over Rafael to give the hosts the lead.
United were back on level terms after eight minutes, Valencia’s cross finding RVP at the back post as the Dutchman expertly pulled away, seizing on Clyne’s slip to make it 1-1.
Despite being static and way off the tempo in midfield United had the best chance before halftime as Evra smashed his header into the ground and onto Saints’ keeper Kelvin Davis.
The second half started with Van Persie missing a simple finish following a clever pass from Valencia before the Saints were back in front.
United’s midfield and defence confirmed all of their flaws after 55 minutes as Patrice Evra lost his balance, opening the door for Morgan Schneiderlin to head Rickie Lambert’s brilliantly delivered ball past Lindegaard.
With the home side having all of the momentum, Fergie replaced Cleverley with Scholes and Kagawa with Nani – nevertheless the Japanese confirmed himself as player of potential paramount importance for his side – but United’s hopes of a comeback were given a blow after 69 minutes as Robin Van Persie’s chipped penalty was palmed away by Kelvin Davis.
Javier Hernandez replaced Danny Welbeck as United looked set to throw the kitchen sink at the host, despite being clearly short of ideas – the ones that laughed off the necessity to reinforce a midfielder will have time to meditate – but were saved by the man that had momentarily turned villain.
With three minutes left Ferdinand was left unmarked in the box and headed Valencia’s cross onto the post before RVP tapped the rebound home silencing the St Mary’s.
The silence turned into despair when, three minutes later, the former Arsenal front man headed Nani’s corner past Kenny to give United and undeserved, yet important, win.
individual brilliance can’t mask lacklustre performances over 38 games, but it can well be the difference between a defeat and a win as United found out today.
Dan (@MUFC_dan87)
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Tags: Classic Posts · Match Reports
The_Philosopher (408)
Redrich (221)
Opti (210)
Stephen (151)
Moscow (147)
Thought we were quite awful and rode our luck to get a win that, ultimately, we didn’t deserve. Carrick looked a bit off the pace and Cleverley is still too inexperienced to run the midfield on his own. Welbeck is clearly not a left winger and the less said about Evra’s defending the better. Our back four seriously needs to wake up or we could be in serious trouble during the season.
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He really is a lazy bastard mate, the sooner he’s replaced the better. (Evra)
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@Ian: don’t get me wrong, I love his passion and his commitment to the club but he was awful at times today. Slipping for the second goal might be unfortunate but he was totally out of position for their first and didn’t even consider closing down Puncheon. Not really many positives to take from today’s performance apart from 3pts and RVP, we look like we still haven’t found a sustainable tactical balance.
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I think we were sloppy but in total we controlled the game- it was just poor defending again that let us down, if we can stop leaking bad goals we will dominate most teams and win by big margins- RVP is a diamond.
I am really exited
Also get well soon Rooney
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@ash is the man: agree there. rv alone had enough good chances to score 6-7 goals. southampton created little and overall we controlled the game better. its just the defensive mistakes that cost us the goals. but this will be ironed out in time. i just hope like last season fergie doesnt become too defensive minded after this and curb our attacking play. 3-2 over trying to win 1-0 any day!
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We got lucky today. The balance of the team isn’t good. Ash, you say RvP is a diamond, but he’s an expensive one. 70M over four years could have been used to get a better defense and MF in place. His hat trick against a recently promoted team with a naive defense shouldn’t fool anyone. If we HAD to buy from Lady Arse, Song for 15M and Koscielny for 9M would have been a better 24M AND Arsenal only pay these two peanuts, not 250k per week for four years (three of which are likely to be spent on the physios bench. I think we’ve spent 70M to buy the league from City this season. Only saying. If it doesn’t come off or if his glass ankles go, we’ve bought a turd. Enjoy it while we can I suppose. Anything to make SAF look good as he progresses through his geriatric years.
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dude… u r being over negative in your approach.. Yes the defence was shit tonight… but i think we only need a decent cover for Evra.. As for the game.. we were not our own self but with a few games we will gel better.. Kagawa is a good buy.. just that we need the system, the tactics and the players mindset to fit him in.. As for Rafael.. i really feel he is a good prospect.. He is energetic.. puts everything into the game and is passionate… give him time.. he has it in him to be united material.. And RVP is proving why SAF was desperately after him…
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In this game we made a very basic mistake.. If any one observed closely enogh.. Valencia and Kagawa were double marked.. Which left them vulnerable on the Left Flank…but we were ourselves very weak on that front… So many times i observed that carrick didnot pass to welbeck who was relatively free.. instead he gave to Valencia who was crowded… We need to work on this.. either Carrick didnot trust Welbeck(which is correct as he was shit
) or there is some issues in the tactics board… if we sort these 2-3 imp points out then we would be a formidable force
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lol.
Agreed, Welbeck was poor, as were most of the players today. Not of his own doing though, because he’s obviously not comfortable playing on the left. So either SAF just wants to stuff him somewhere in the team, or he is just still intent on punishing Nani for his inept performance on the opening day, and so has no other options on the left. (Young being injured).
Personally I would play Nani more – as long as we can stamp our authority in midfield. Unfortunately, we’re just getting stamped all over in midfield judging from the opening 3 games.
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I think we’re being unfair. Evra did relatively well. The left side tactics were idiotic. Welbeck was trying to do a David Villa and left major gaps on that flank. This put a lot of pressure on Evra and he did well to cope mostly. The two worst defenders were Vidic and Rafael. And why put pressure and uncertainty by playing a new defence in front of a new keeper. You can’t rotate keepers. David made a mistake but also made top saves 90% of the time. Keep him there and form some sort of defensive consistency. Our defensive system or more correctly, lack of one, is proving a serious problem. It’s like some sort of FIFA.12 free form defending. There’s no technique to it, just simply “Rio! Press the panic button, Rafa is under attack”. If we’re not willing to play a holding midfielder, then at least play a high line, with Rio ball playing. Attack in this case, being the defence. It puts pressure on the opposition’s midfield and restricts the forwards movement.
Welbeck is not a wide player. Mr Ferguson, I repeat, Welbeck, is not a wide player. What a waste of time. I felt sorry for him. Fortunately, more and more fans are becoming a little more attentive to tactics. It’s not necessarily the subs that changed the game, but a combination of key things. We changed tactics. Chicharito came in, to play through the middle ahead of a largely central RvP. Had we done that all along with Welbeck, we’d have been okay. The problem was Kagawa. I at least applaud the coaches and manager for playing him where he wants. But with two strikers on, we had to go narrow, with Carrick deep, Cleverly passing and Kagawa doing an Iniesta. Flood the middle to control possession and allow the fullbacks to provide width. On second thoughts, the technical team didn’t blunder much. Kagawa was triple marked and harassed and generally was anonymous. It’s rather embarrassing with his midweek statements, demanding the players play through the middle and trust him in tight spaces. They did exactly that and Southampton had been eavesdropping. Also the gutless movement of Cleverly restricted our forwards movement as well. I’ll blame Carrick for that. He was too deliberate,and tried to be the playmaker instead of trusting the kid’s ability to get things moving. This meant Cleverly was playing support cast to Carrick, instead of the other way round. Carrick seems not to have a problem doing that with Anderson and Scholes,but failed to give Cleverly the same trust.
I thought Cleverly did well given the circumstances. He didn’t lose possession and his movement whilst not attack minded, was pretty intelligent and fluid. He was just doing it in the centre of the pitch. It’s funny, because he offered more of an option than Anderson who doesn’t understand space in his movement, but Carrick just simply tried to find Valencia,RvP or Kagawa. So for me, of the three players taken off,Kagawa did a poor job. The others were victims of bad tactics, and other players poor performances. It was a strange game. It highlighted a lot of weaknessess at a lot of new potential good.
1.I was impressed with Cleverly’s ability to maintain possession under pressure and his energetic movement off the ball which was more importantly, intelligent. It was rather safe though, but with time he’ll get confident and teammates will trust him more.
2.Valencia can cross a football. His ability to find players in good space, in a crowded box is really amazing. The last time I pay such accuracy was when the great Beckham played at United. He found RvP about 5 times and Robin scored one. That’s a scary scenario, reminiscent of his deadly work with Rooney in 2010. I’ve changed my mind. Screw Nani’s development on the right,we need Tony there. Nani is good enough to adapt on the left, cutting in onto his favoured right foot. Plus, i’d go for Nani, mixing it up all over the front with the forwards and Tony, wide right.
3. Options. One reason, I believe Carrick was less generous with Cleverly, is van Persie. The guy’s got movement. He’s so intelligent, and can find space, easily. Cleverly’s one weakness, is a lack of range in passing. At one point, Carrick launched a long ball over the top and found Robin in the box, who failed to direct his shot well, after Berba like control. He attempted this throughout, until Scholes came on and took over the idea. Van Persie really gives us options upfront. Long balls,ground balls into his feet or with his back to goal. Even crosses from wide.
4. Chicharito looked like he wants to prove a point. I don’t think he misplaced a single pass, which is a milestone for him. His movement was clever and seemed to strike an unlikely cord with rvp. Footbal is a funny game. You’d think the last person to quickly find an understanding with rvp would be Hernandez,but his constant movement and direct approach, fitted in seamlessly with Robin’s CF’s role. Also he seemed more alert and less prone to sloppiness. Hopefully that’ll last beyond a 15 minute cameo appearance when the opposition is panicking.
5. On a darker note, our defence is bad. If there’s a worse state than “in total shambles”, then we’ve discovered it. Vidic is really shocking and seems less confident. Rafael has zero sense of defensive intelligence. We have no actual defensive technique beyond the panic button. We don’t press at all. It’s stupid that we never learn to press when we struggle to deal with pressure from upfront. Everton, pressed like crazy, Southampton did the same and caused up serious trouble. Their first goal came via pressing. This is too elementary. How the heck are these coaches paid a single dime? Because we choose not to deal with this, even the attacking prowess of Rvp, Rooney, Nani, Tony and Kagawa will not win us a single trophy. 5 goals conceded in 3 games is a terrible statistic, given that we haven’t even faced the likes of Aguero,Silva, Hazard and the now fearsome Torres.
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@Jay wire: Liked this comment. Especially the part on Chicarito, who would have thought that as another poster put it, he would play in a way that showed he deserves to be above Welbz in the pecking order?!
The thing about Fergie’s summer buys is that it gives him options. He can play his favored 4-4-2 with RVP and Rooney up top, or RVP and Chicharito, or Rooney and Welbz, or Rooney and Chicharito, all 4 options which have been tried, offer something slightly different, and all 4 which can work. For all we know, maybe even RVP and Welbz up top, not one on the wing, could also work.
Secondly, he can play either a 4-2-3-1 with Kagawa in the hole, RVP up top, Tony and Nani on either side (+ the right fullbacks!), or same as above but with Rooney in the hole, and with Cleverly and Anderson, or Carrick and Scholes, or Carrick and Jones as the “2″. Or a 4-3-3 with Carrick, Scholes, and Cleverly in the mid, and Valencia, RVP/Rooney and Nani/Rooney. Despite not buying Dembele, the Boss still has so many options with a fully fit squad.
Question is, does he/Mike Phelan have the tactical nous to coach and choose the right team for various games? On the evidence, they seem to be struggling to find the best personnel for the best 2-3 systems the squad can potentially offer. Some players seem confused.
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Why are you posting these as comments dood? Where’s your articles gone?
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@Jay wire: you’re my favority RedRanter… I love your posts. Highlight of RR!
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I don’t think that we can play through middle yet, need very good wingforward to do that and towering (Drob,,,) one top striker is must.
Vidic and Rafael need game time, If we didn’t sign RvP it could be really worse.
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On the Welbeck, He played like Park did with us in last season, covering side well and cut inside and scoring from time to time, It require huge amount of staminar though so not easy to do it constantly. Team look badly unbalnced, we have no defensive minded players in the middle bar Carrik.
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I love to read everyone’s comments. Seems like everyone has the potential to be top managers in the premier league and knows way better than Alex Ferguson. I think Man Utd should sack Ferguson, and hire you all as managers instead. Impressive…
Everyone\\\\\\\'s talking about this one! - Join the debate.... Like or Dislke:
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@Allan Zhong: I wish I could say the same about you after reading your comment…
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@Allan Zhong: You need a tissue, cuz you got an issue
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So much for Berbatov’s “class”. Keep your gob shut you over-payed spoilled brat.
And talking of respect, I lost mine for you 3 years ago.
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@Redrich: he doesnt need to berate the boss like that. its classless really. i think he had sufficient chances but fall short for a 30m player. 5 goals in 26 starts in europe in 4 years!!! who is he kidding??? RVN scored 14 in a single campaign.
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@jos: The record doesn’t speak for itself in his case. He is a stubbornly selfish player that freeloaded all his years with United. Who knows what damage he caused to players that were trying to break into the team while he caroused and loafed around.
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@Redrich: Maybe Berbatov was the ultimate unlucky one – he was just a pawn used and abused by Sir Alex to fuck the leeches controlling finances – they lost maybe 20m on his value isint it???
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@jos: I would not give the man an ounce of respect if I was left out of squad for champions league final considering I was the top scorer for the club that season and I had lion’s share in winning the iconic 19th title for the club. Fergie is a ruthless liar and shown his poor man management time and time again
I am surprised he did not call fergie a liar! He should have.
At least Berba didn’t create problems in dressing room by bitching about playing time in media when he was here. Shame some people still worship that argie ****.
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@AndyCR7: Fergie is the best man manager around. I hope you are not going down the “Fergie is a liar and a coward” route which is stupid.
All managers manipulate the the truth, I don’t know a manager who doesn’t, Mourinho is the worst.
What you don’t knowis how he behaved around the club. You have taken Berba side, not knowing the managers. He didn’t work out, for one reason or another. He may have been let down, but he hardly worked his socks off in games which did not do him any good.
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@Stephen: I won’t ever say fergie is a coward. Yep he is a best man manager around but in some cases he has done poor job. RvN, Berba, Beckham etc.
My point is he should have let Berba go long back when he wasn’t gonna use him. But he chose to ignore and lie. People say he was happily counting money on the bench! In that case he wouldn’t have asked fergie 10-15 times if united needed him.
Nobody has ever said that he was a success at United. He wasn’t a flop either in my opinion.
If my employer was liar, I would not respect him at all. As simple as that.
All would be fine, if people accepted fergie can make mistakes.
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@AndyCR7: Beckham left simply because of his celebrity status, Fergie felt he was getting too big.
Rudd left because he fell out with Ronaldo, it was one or the other.
Why did he lie? I am not saying Fergie was perfect in the way he dealt with Berba, but he hardly lied.
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@AndyCR7: Andy how can the manager start him in the final considering his goal scoring exploits in the CL – a grand total of 5 goals in 26 starts (and I dont know how many times he came from bench). Thats really bad record for somebody who is in the side as a striker.
I was a fan and I still am a berba fan but he simply wasnt good for united, especially in too many big games. I watch most of the games united play and more often than not I was pulling my hairs at his lethargic attitude or him simply not being there on the pitch or being responsible for too many breakdowns of quick counters. Still it was a Fergie mistake! He is not responsible for who he is. He could have become a united player (and even a legend) if he tried to change but he didnt and is now gone. Lets put it to rest at that. By the way Thanks Berba for the hattrick and also from the few genuine genius moments (though they were too few and too far in between). You did not deliver in the champions league (for whatever reason) and that is why you are not here anymore. Whatever fergie might say to the world, he is a big sucker for the CL trophy and that is what he craves the most and that is why he spent all the summer money on van persie – a striker that can be trusted to play lone upfront (that is so much a default requirement in eruope).
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@jos: Also when he did score they were all in large chunks. I like the guy but he simply did not fit at United. He was too ponderous on the ball and had no movement. The manager did sign him and is hadly blameless, it is best we all move on.
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@jos: He started Chicha, who had great CL scoring record, right?
He could have sold him right away then. Fergie told Berba that he was in the plans and fergie told in the press that he won’t be sold!
Success or flop, whether he deserved more matches is another matter. My point is I don’t blame Berba for what he has said in the press. If he is lying about fergie lying to him (I am sure it’s not the case), I expect fergie to clear the things in a presser.
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@AndyCR7: well he was in his plans (as fergie likes to have 4 strikers) and he did get to play 21 games last season but he lost his starting position to Welbeck whom Fergie has identified as the future of united (rightly or wrongly). Berba should have smelt the coffee and left last year (maybe a written transfer request) and he would have been sold. At least he should have left in Jan. Why was he silent then??? After the CL final itself it should have been clear to berba that he is no longer first choice. why didnt he leave last year itself? Theres no way a manager can keep a player who is intent on leaving. berba is hardly blameless here is he.
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@jos: Yeah he should have handed in a transfer request. Then your tune would be different. How dare he blah blah blah
I blame fergie. You blame Berba. FINE.
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@AndyCR7: I think the blame lies at both doors. Fergie could have dealt with him better, but we don’t know his attitude around the training ground. It was clear his style didn’t suit, but he never tries to adapt his play.
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@Stephen: I blame berba for not producing. I blame fergie for not getting rid early and lying to the player.
I doubt the attitude issue. As Gill said he didn’t create any problem in 4 years. I’m sure fergie would say something if that was the case. Only valid point fergie made till now is he didn’t suit the fast paced game United wants to play. He never questioned his attitude.
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@AndyCR7: Truthfully our play has hardly changed since we signed him, if anything it has slowed down. I think he was a player he wanted and neglected to really think how he would play in our system. Good luck to him.
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@AndyCR7: and hernandez has twice scored against chelsea (even in CL) and also against arsenal. he can be counted upon to score when needed. the same is not true of berbatov (you never knew if he was in the mood to play or not!)
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@jos: 3 goals warrant a start in CL final, okay!
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@AndyCR7: well somebody gotta start.
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@AndyCR7: Mate, I expect Fergie to BAN and ostracise any journalist in his press conferences who is bold enough to bring up the Berba accusation against him. That is Fergie’s MO, always has been and always will be!
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I guess the impact that Paul Scholes had on the game yesterday should bring into question the need to find a long term solution for his eventual retirement.
The quandary is “how do you replace Paul Scholes”, and the obvious response is “you cant replace Paul Scholes”. A unique player with skills that you could probably design a team around, and a man with a footballing brain that is impossible to clone.
The hesitation in finding the replacement has to do with (1) the fact that there is no one available that is better, (2) the flawed belief that we already have it in the likes of Cleverly and Anderson, and of course, (3) the draconian budget that the Vampires have imposed on our spending ability.
I do understand the hesitation. It’s a big deal to bring in a playmaker that has no understanding of your philosophy and team make up. Either a catalyst or a pariah, the fact that they are talented cannot tell the whole story about their impact on the team.
However, is it also true that Ferguson is now biding his time. Feeling that one more mis-step in the transfer market could put a blight on his legacy, or the impact of an imperfect midfield general could create a catastrophic swan song to his reign as United’s greatest Tsar.
This team is completely his. He wants it that way and that’s probably the way it will be until he hangs it up.
For right or wrong we’ll have to watch Scholsey spray diagonals to Valencia and Evra for a while yet and we’ll all have to deal with it!
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@Redrich: I think he had big hopes from Pogba but Pogba was not old fashioned and he grew impatient and departed to warm the bench at juve. the availability of rvp in this transfer window meant the money earmarked for midfielder went in that direction (and for good reason as well – looking at our overdependence on rooney). I think this is Sir Alex’s last season as manager! The new man coming next year will get a chance to get his man in the middle.
And people hoping for Mourinho – would he still be able to work out his charm and fight the likes of Megabucks City and Chelsea on a meagre 25m annual budget???
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@jos: He won the CL as part of a treble with Porto, and introduced great midfielders such as Deco, his Chelsea midfielders were formidable, and lasted long even after his departure. Truth is he can do it with and without money, why would he turn down the funds offered to him at Real Madrid, he is not Wenger. He is just an unassailable force who wins everything everywhere and who will become the most successful manager ever (if not the greatest one in your books).
Our club deserves such a titan of football, and Fergie despite his recent failings deserves such a successor to honour his 25 year legacy.
As for using our budget, he spent 35 million on Modric and Essien, Fergie spent the same amount on Phil Jones and Ashley Young, talentless English retards. So rest assured.
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@Moscow: Talentless, English retards and you claim not be to xenophobic? Me not think so….
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@Stephen: That was out of line, I apologise. But they are quite shit though, and coincidentally so are a lot of the English ‘talent’ being bandied about today.
Thankfully Fergie has noticed this and signed 2 world class continental players, a CAM who gives us another dimension through the middle, and a striker who can play up front on his own. Credit where it’s due.
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@Moscow: Thats fine mate. I can’t disagree with the press over hyping certain English players, Welbeck for one. Jones I still think has a lot to offer, he is still young and learning. Young seems to be bit of a whipping boy of late. I think this has a lot to do with Nani, many love him and in turn take this out on his rival for his postion. Young still quite well last season in spells, but was awful in the Euros.
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@Stephen: Don’t get me wrong mate there are world class English players such as Carrick and Rooney still around but past superstars such as Lampard and Gerrard are simply past it and the young generation do not give me much hope.
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@Moscow: Wiltshere if he ever got fit and Oxlade Chamberlain look very good.
I agree, a lot of the time prolific under achievers like Gerrard, Lampard and Terry get picked on reputation. The behaviour towards Rio is borderline disgraceful. Hart is a terrific goal keeper and Ashley Cole is one of the best left backs in the World. Up front we are a joke, bar Rooney we offer very, very little. We have a dinosaur in charge, he played 4-4-3 in the friendly against Italy which was encouraging, but feel he will go back to 4-4-2 which is archaic.
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@Moscow: Arent there some rules (or gonna be) about the number of homegrown players in the team.
I thought thats why City were also stacking English players? Otherwise why would the likes of Berry Milner Sinclair etc??? They could have bought anyone in the world.
whether you like or not but the boss likes to have an all english spine. nothing wrong with that. why should he buy players that he wont be comfortable dealing with (or who would not be comfortable with him)? prime examples are argies.
most times its not the best players that make the best team (only barca are an exception). Even with all the galacticos real won shit. bayern have the biggest and best players in bundesliga but still cant win it.
united are going thru the rebuilding phase. that time comes for every team. we had a pretty smashing past few years with 4 titles and 3 CL finals. That has to come to an end one day and rebuilding has to be done. Now Ferguson has his own style. He has been successful in the past so why doubt it now?
Doesnt the shakedown at Malaga tell you nothing – all that mindless spending leads just to an impending doom?????? That has happened to City already (remember sinawatra) and will happen to them sooner than later. right now I am happy with the way we are, i have faith in the young players. I would like to give them a proper chance they can become the scholes and giggs of tomorrow. you are welcome to disagree and thats why we all rant here.
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@jos: I was defending Mourinho, not City and their mindless spending.
But since you mentioned rebuilding, I’m not sure how playing Giggs and Scholes in last season’s title decider constitutes progress in the youth department mate.
Real are the Spanish champions having beaten the ‘greatest team ever’, a feat they repeated again barely a week ago with the best players in the world. Mourinho is unstoppable.
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@Moscow: I can see why he picked Scholes, but Giggs should have started on the bench. The biggest mistake was starting Park, he was clearly not fit.
He was hardly going to play youth players away to City though..
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@Moscow: well Mourinho’s Porto CL was a fraud (just like this years Chelseas CL). I’ll give him the Inter one but he did spend good money there.
And yes he won the liga. he must be really really good.
but will he come to united to manage on a 25m budget. I am not sure!!! I dont know what gives you the confidence. Our next manager would be some penny picker like Moyes rather than a world beater like him. Would Glazers be able to afford his wages??? ( I reckon they are of the order of 10m a year and the likes of Abrahomich and Sheikh can even beat that!) No Mourinho is a money whore and will go to Chelsea next year!
Do you really think Barca care for the cup Real won last week!!! They must be laughing their hearts out. Mourinho cant still beat Barca in real competitive games like in the liga for example.
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@jos: “Mourinho cant still beat Barca in real competitive games like in the liga for example.”
April 21, 2012. Camp Nou. Barcelona 1 – Real Madrid 2.
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@Moscow: In fairness they won on away goals, loosing the first leg, hardly an unstoppable result.
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I am still trying to work out why Scholes it said to have come on and changed the game? I mean that seriously! I mean what exactly did Scholesy do that had such a supposedly massive game changing influence. I didn’t see any passes from him that penetrated the Southampton box, making openings for our attacking players. This may not be popular, but Chicharito was piercing Southamptons defence more, he was penetrating, and definitely more effective than Welbeck in all the time Welbeck was on the pitch. Welbeck is to often a non contributor in games, and Fergie’s playing him on the left was farcical. Even skinned sausage didn’t have his usual outlet and player to interchange with on the left side of field. Yeah we had no balance, even a blind man could see that, but a Welbeck sighted Fergie couldn’t for some reason. The Southampton defence down that side could have sat down and had a cup of tea on the pitch, they had so little to do due to Welbeck’s constant absence down the flank he was supposed to be playing on. Another thing I can’t stand about Danny, is his inate ability to fall down every time he is tackled, or tries to dribble past somebody to get into the box. When Nani came on, at least we had balance down the flanks, and it took some of the pressure off Vally, because Southampton suddenly had two flanks they had to take care of. Rafael is a great little passer of the ball to our forwards in the box, definitely as good as Vally, so maybe FB is not Rafael’s better place of employment, because his defending is freakin Kamikazi. I would like to see Chicharito get more time on the field with RVP, because as somebody said, they seem to have a bit more understanding, and Chicharito can find space in the box far better than Welbeck can. If SAF doesn’t find a system, and players who can play together and work that system, then I have grave doubts about where we could end up this season. RVP will not be able to rescue us every time, and if he gets injured, we are really up shit creek without a paddle at the moment anyway!
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Vally one assist, Rafael one assist, Nani one assist. 3 great goals. I am one of those who believes that Nani is better than Young on the left or right flanks, and I don’t apologise for it. I think he proved he is better than Young with more assists and more goals. Nani is a shadow at the moment, because SAF is seeking to do a Berba on him, and to me I hope SAF falls on his face as a result. I also believe that Nani will and should leave, because Fergie would rather play the ineffective Young’s and Welbeck’s of the football world, and why should an international player like Nani, who had a far more impacting input at the Euro’s and World cup qualifiers for his country, than on the pitch but missing Young and Welbeck will ever have for England – pathetic really. Am I biased, yes guilty as charged, but rightly so I believe!
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@Craig Mc: nani had an assist but he was playing like shit. lost the ball all the time, no pace and looked weak. honestly that is not his level.
and i cant understand why you feel fergie is his problem!!! does fergie tell him to lose the ball all the time or not turn up in half the games? nani has all the ability but unlike ronaldo he does not have a brain. his problem is he himself not sir alex. malouda for chelsea had similar kind of stats as nani. do u think he was one of the best winger in the world???
if nani wants to be the best player in the world he has to play like the best. Messi had 70 goals and 25+ assists last season. Thats your marker Nani.
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@jos: So Nani didn’t carry the team goal wise etc when Wazza was out injured the time Nani was voted players player of the year. Why was Young bought? Are you trying to say that Young is better than Nani. because if so I don’t agree with you mate. Are you trying to say that Welbeck did a better job on the left than Nani can do, if so again I don’t agree with you. Nani needs games, to hit form, something he is unlikely to get under SAF, who prefers Young and Welbeck who do very little contribution wise. You are entitled to your opinion mate, but so am I, and I know that Nani plays outstanding for Portugal whenever he puts on the shirt, and he got them to the world cup on his own practically, and yes I watched all their games. Ronaldo was injured and Nani took up the responsibility to get the Portuguese to the WC, and same in the European nations. Why is the lad so excellent for his country, and not for United? You tell me also why Young and Welbeck who play well about 2 – 3 games a season, and rest of time are so ordinary, how do they deserve to get games when their performances are every bit as bad as you believe Nani’s are? Just my opinion Jos, and I don’t think we need to worry much longer, because I def think Nani will leave, and he should. Then we will see how we do with Young and Welbeck being 1st team choices, and I can tell you now – not so freakin good!
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@Craig Mc: Mate, Nani is a good player but very frustrating. You can’t ignore the fact that he has genuine quality, but is perpetual diving and histrionics are at best embarrassing. But he is a match winner no doubt but so is Vally, who has less to offer but is more consistent. Ashley Young seems to be getting a hard time, I was never overly keen to sign him but he had good spells last season and is a good squad player.
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@Stephen: Mate in all honesty I don’t think we have seen all that much of Nani diving, certainly not like he used to do after he 1st came to us, and brought the foreign antics with him. I know Nani has his off days, but even on his off days I prefer him in the team to Young or Welbeck. Nani can always give you that moment of magic, point in case being the fantastic pinpoint ball right onto the head of RVP for our winner at Southampton. I have seen so many of those moments of magic that change a game from him. I am not disagreeing with you Stephen that he has his stinkers – like the one at Everton, but to me he is miles better than Young. Nani has proved himself on the international stage for Portugal, and I have no doubt he could do so for United if SAF played him in the big games in Europe, which he doesn’t. I think you have said in the past yourself, that Nani needs games to get his consistency. Like the run of games he had when Wazza was out for so long, and Nani stepped up for us and got the goals until Wazza came back. Anyway, how the hell are you Stephen, will you be at the Wigan game after the international break? I am not entirely sure if I will be, but I am so hoping I can be. Workload has been manic for me this past year or so, but hey got to meet those deadlines.
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@Craig Mc:
I agree, he is certainly a better option to Welbeck and Young, truthfully I would sell Welly tomorrow. He still play acts, Ok not as much as used to, but like Ronaldo he is a serious drama queen. His is a decent crosser of the ball, but Vally is far better. But Nani if fit needs to start, he is one player who can create something and more importantly he gets the fans off their seats.
I am good mate, busy at work which is very positive, I won’t be at the Wigan game too bro. I do have tickets to Anfield though, which I am really looking forward too! How are you mate? Hey we must be the longest serving members on here now!
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@Craig Mc: well I have nothing against Nani. He is one of my fav united players. As I said he has all the ability in the world. When in mood and when playing well he is unstoppable and an absolute joy to watch. The likes of Young and Welbeck are no match. Nani is a matchwinner.
But lets not hide his faults as well. When he plays bad he plays really bad. And thats frustrating as his lowest level is really very low. Schmichael once said he measures how great a player by looking at his lowest level. By that measure Nani is pretty bad. But he only can improve himself. He is pretty lucky that he is at a top club like Man Utd that gives chances to young players to become stars. Like Ronaldo he has to take up responsibility and play like a champion in every frigging game. That he has done for half a season only once! The likes of Messi and Ronaldo are doing that week in week out for their clubs (even RVP is doing that for more than a year).
As I said Nani’s enemy is Nani himself. Its no use hiding flaws. One has to realise them and then work to eliminate them. Ronaldo was like that once but he ironed out all those flaws. Nani’s challenge is to do the same. It would matter zilch if he moves to some other club. Same malaise will plague him there. I hope he realises his potential be it at united or anywhere else. I wont have any hard feelings for him if he left. But if he wants to be the best he has to learn to be consistent and to carry a team week in week out and for years.
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@jos: Subbed on with 20 minutes to go, ends up with the assist that wins the game, and that constitues as “playing like shit”?
I really dont get alot of this unfair criticism of nani. Yes he can be frusrating when his corner doest get past the first defender, or when he trips himself up trying to meg the opposition, it frustrates the hell out of me too, but at the end of the day the mans stats speak for themselves.
Last 2 seasons hes been responsible for scoring 25 goals and creating 25 assists, in about 80 games. Better than a goal every 2 games.
So were basically saying that after rooney hes been our most prodctive player in terms of goals scored/created.
If anyone can name another wide man who scores/creates as many goals as him then great, if not i dont see how anyone can class him as inconsistent.
His stats prove that more times than not regardless of whether he trips himself up 7 times, or gives the ball away or fails to put in a good corner/free kick, he’ll end up scoring or assisting a goal for us. So again i ask, how is how inconsistent?
Id certainly say he’s no more inconsistent than rooney say who can play like a one footed piss head a lot of the time, yet scores so all is forgiven and hes had a great game.
Or valencia who can play brilliantly at home at wigan, and then away from home is anonomous for 90 minutes.
But maybe because he runs around alot people want to overlook his inconsistencies because its not as obvious as when the flair players do it.
Why is nani different?
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@tonymontanna4united: well my point is you think that is nanis level and I dont. he can do so much better. and in those 20 mins in last game he was largely playing very bad but came out with an assist. valencia also had an assist and delivered some quality crosses in the box and dominated his marker yet people still keep on saying he is average! thats just favoritism at play here.
nani is substantially more capable then what he is doing right now. maybe his mind is not at it at present. whatever the reason, i am not happy with his performances. you think they are good fair enough. for he he is long way from repeating his 2010 heroics. he played like a world beater for half a season in 2010. but hasnt been the same since. its simple case of u having lowered ur expectations with nani and me having raised them as i feel he is capable of more and reaching ronaldo heights.
also nani has a bad record in champions league just like berba.
if you are asking about other wingers, in PL itself malouda had similar stats for chelsea. bale has been better at spurs.
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@jos: Thing with nani is like rooney hes a confidence player.
You cant just drop him for 6 games then throw him back in and he’ll have a 9/10 game. Hes just not that type of player.
I agree he can do better, of course theres always room to improve.
For one thing he can work harder on his corners so they actually beat the first bloody man (giggs and rooney are guilty of this too), and he can start getting players like kagawa more into play rather than trying to go it alone at times.
So yes mate, i do agree, he does have room to improve, but then i dont think theres a player in our whole squad whose been all that consistent and at the top of their games the last 2 years really (the whole team seems to have played at half pace for too long really).
Rooneys looked uninterested and down right miserable alot of the time, rio’s been uncharacteristically sloppy and rash, evra doesnt need mentioning, valencia is a different player away from home, carrick was off form for over 2 years etc etc.
So again your right in saying he’s got room to improve, but then i think thats unfairly just picking on nani when others around him have equally got to buck up and pick up their games.
As i said though, players like nani can only do that by playing and building up their confidence.
And that means sticking with them even after hes frustrated the hell out of us and hes had a shocker.
Its just my opinion though that even when he has a shocker he still scores a goal or gets the assist that is the difference between 1 point or 3.
And for that, well i just think he deserves a bit of lee way when he does play poorly, especially when dropping him means the alternative is young.
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@tonymontanna4united: Mate you talk too much sense for some of the Man Utd NANI hating fans. No wonder Nani wants out, he’s the only player at United who is expected to be perfect every single time he plays. United fans though have their little favourites whose names they chant from the roof tops, like Anderson, Young, Welbeck, who couldn’t contribute as much as Nani to a game if the game continued all freakin day. Your stats speak for themselves regarding Nani, and it will only be seen what we had when he is gone, and we are stuck with the other 3 I mentioned. The MUTV commentators NEVER leave Nani alone, every time he gets the ball, they demand he must be perfect, and tear him to bits if he isn’t. Fergie has told Nani to cut out the fancy skills he has, even though when he cuts loose he gets fans off their seats. Nani says he is encouraged to use all of his game for Portugal, but is straightjacketed into a certain style of play at OT. I believe the lad, because even Rafael is saying the same about his game to the press just recently, he prefers to play for Brazil, because he can express himself. This my friends is why we are having to sit through snooze football week after week after dreary week at OT, players not encouraged to express themselves, and so they feel inhibited. You can give this post thumbs down as much as you like lads, but you know its true even if you can’t accept it. Maybe you will accept it when we lose players who can’t stand to not be able to express themselves, and go to somewhere where they can. Nani can do it, he proved it when Wazza was out for a good while and Nani took up the responsibility, but he has admitted himself, that he feels shackled by SAF most of the time. I think he would flourish at Zenith, because they have a nice little group of Portuguese international players now, who Nani is used to playing with and supplying for.
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@Craig Mc: Cheers mate.
I do agree with what your saying too. I find many of the united fans i talk to are far too hard on nani whenever he has a bad game.
Yet when rooney, valencia, welbeck, young, carrick, rio, hernandez, evans have all been just as inconsistent, if not more so, then its a different story.
The fans, and fergie for that matter, kept the faith, gave them time and let them get through their rough period.
Nani is different though in his treatment from the fans and fergie too.
Maybe its because fans unfairly view him as our own mini ronaldo, so when he doesnt perform as such they have a go?
Who knows.
All i know is if we had a world class player in reserve with the stats and the consistency to out shine nani, then by all means put him in.
Think rooney with van persie. Rooney is now in a positio where he needs to seriously buck up, lose some weight or else he loses his place in the team.
If say we had bale (over rated but still potentially a top class player) in reserve and nani was having a stinker, then by all means throw bale in and let him keep his place until nani upped his game.
But were not in that situation right now. Unfortunately right now dropping nani means we play young, or worse still welbeck.
Neither of whom are players who are better or more consistent than nani.
So changing things are just stupid as far as im concerned.
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RvN Scored his first goal for United against Fulham and scored his first hat trick against Southampton
RvP Scored his first goal for United against Fulham and scored his first hat trick against Southampton
How weird!
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FC Zenit forums are ablaze discussing Nani joining the club on £30m transfer. Any word about this on the United side?
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@Andrei: If Hulk and Witsel are worth 35m+, Nani is worth 45m+.
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@AndyCR7: Apparently, £30m is United valuation and Zenit are willing to meet it. The fee includes £5m signing bonus paid to Nani. According to “well informed” posters United have given Zenit permission to negotiate personal terms with Nani. All this doesn’t seem too credible to me but I thought I’d share the information anyway.
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I feel a lot of sympathy for Berbatov. The great irony is that the only time when we consistently played with PACE was the season BEFORE we signed him! Since then we’ve played most of the season in second gear only occasionally playing the lightining fast football that Ferguson cited when saying Berbatov didn’t fit.
Anyway he should have been given a move last summer. We’d have raised at least £10 million and he would have left on a relative high.
But in a way given how quickly Ferguson froze out Tevez the second Berbatov arrived, the Bulgarian should have seen the writing on the wall.
I’m not sure what the problem with Nani is. I am very much on his side. Even if he doesn’t always play well for us he always comes up with an assist.
Certainly Valencia is a better option on the right wing. But Nani would always be my first pick on the left wing.
Zenit won’t buy him. They splashed their money on Hulk and Witsel.
I am convinced that Ferguson’s plan was to sign Lucas Moura or Eden Hazard and then sell Nani. As we didn’t sign either and it is obvious that Kagawa is too good through the middle to waste out wide he backtracked on selling Nani.
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To me, Nani is not a pure winger, his best efforts have always come from cutting inside. He’s another one of those hybrid’s that SAF loves to use because of their versatility. Just like Rooney, just like Young and now just like Kagawa.
It’s all well and good to keep teams off balance with the unusual skill set of half of your strike force, but what you sacrifice is the structure to spring them free!
The poor performances from the key elements of our team has marginalized all the advantages that our “special players” can offer to our successes. I mean, how on earth can you expect Rooney to make an impact when the MF has either fallen back to protect a weak back line, or when you make your so called wingers take up deep defensive positions that leaves them wasted of energy by 60 minutes.
In fact how can you expect to challenge for trophies when you are constantly trying to patch up the holes that, and lets face it, are of your making.
If your philosophy is to play with 2 wide men, why the hell don’t you get 2 that actually can play wide. If you believe that Championships can only be won with good, solid defenses, then please make sure you have one.
The patchwork nature of this team is disturbing. The idea that we needed to spend over the odds for a goal scoring savior (I love RVP, btw and am ecstatic that we signed him) speaks volumes about the desperation that must exist within the ranks of this coaching staff.
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@Redrich: I agree mate. I couldn’t believe Phelan’s latest outcry, we must score more goals. No Mike we have scored 3 goals in each last 2 games, your cry should have been we must stop the flow of opposition goals into our net, that is how to keep up your goal ration
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1. How Berba can be called disrespectful is not beyond me. Some people just can’t accept that Ferguson is just another human being, who can do wrong sometimes. I’m not surprised that he was very diplomatic in his comments because he’s a class act. Ferguson lies and treats people like crap. Nothing new there. Brown, Tevez,Ruud, Beckham. And please let’s not get into this celebrity stuff. Beckham played well and was not affected by media attention unlike Rooney who will not be axed by Ferguson even if he disrespects the club etc. Pogba is further evidence of Ferguson’s disrespect. Throughout the saga, the kid was quiet not saying anything in the media-whilst Ferguson was running his mouth. Beckham never said stuff but Ferguson has always been on his case in the media. He’s a great manager with great flaws. He has class in the land of Narnia, but in the real world he’s something else. Regardless of how you feel about changing the team’s style, the respectful thing to say to a player who’s asking if he’s needed, when he’s not, is “I think you should move on”. Simple class. A football player is actually a human being, with aspirations, a desire for dignity and pride. There’s no logical or football reason for not playing your top scorer in a Champions League final. Forget throwing him out of the squad altogether and claiming we needed midfield options on the bench. That means Michael Owen was now even ahead of Berbatov in the order. Put yourself in the shoes of Berbatov and tell me you’ll have respect for Ferguson after such blatant disrespect. You don’t have to be a jerk to send an unpleasant message. Just be straight up and not show a total lack of class. “We no longer require your services. Goodbye.” Nani prepare.
2. And on that note,the analysis that comes to the conclusion that Nani is inconsistent is embarrassing. He’s been one of the best creators and scorers of goals in Britain the last 3 years. The last what? 3 years. How Malouda can be compared with him is breathtaking. One good season. Experts are comparing Nani with David Silva and we’re debating whether to play him or Young. Just because we have a clueless technical team, doesn’t give anyone the right to slag off one of our best players. Next time try watching Portugal games and comment again. He can be frustrating, but so can Ferguson. Let’s ship them both. We have a coaching team who can’t integrate obvious talent into an actual playing philosophy. We just borrow a bit of Barca here and these days a bit of Madrid there without even understanding why they play the way they do. That’s terrible for the players. It should be logical that one of the best creators and “dangermen” in English football,should play closer to goal. It should be logical that when you get a world top 5 forward and already possess a top 6 one,mixed up with an attacker who conquered Germany,you should be able to create and score even more.
Not Nani’s fault, logic is the last thing on our coaches minds. Obviously if Nani raises his game this season we’ll hear of another Ferguson management masterstroke. No ways. For the past 3 seasons he’s been trying to sell him. Munich officially confirmed this beginning of last season. This season we tried getting Lucas Who as a replacement. Wow. For £30m.
3. One thing is for certain. We have the worst possible coaches. It’s not up for debate anymore. I keep repeating this because i’m actually baffled by this reality. Excuse me, we’re Manchester United for crying out loud. Who the heck hires these guys for us? No seriously, who is responsible for acquiring coaching staff? The likes of Real Madrid are serious about the product on the pitch and they hire the best guys out there to map out a playing philosophy for their team. Technical directors. Guys like Ariggo Sacchi known the world over for revolutionalising football. Who the heck is Mike Phelan or Rene “10 bucks if you spell his name correct” Muleunsteen. Let’s be serious. We need doctors of football here. Thinkers and strategists, known in the football global community. After all, we’re not some Everton or Fulham. Whoever comes in after Ferguson, should come with his own team and yes in this case, happily throw the baby out with the water.
I have obviously no trust for the technical team. Let’s call then that for dignity’s sake. I’m trying to be more positive this season, so I’ll be hoping the players we bought can elevate our game somewhat. Both are highly technical and think. Maybe they can figure out the best strategy to play by themselves. It’s hugely embarrassing that a new player comes in and immediately comments about how backward our “style” of football is. Well he may have said it innocently and in other words but it still proves how backward we have become. We have 2 players who can play in tight spaces through the middle and we keep playing it wide. Clear lack of technical leadership. So if the players try and get their act together and discuss the best way to get the best out of each other, I think we may succeed. I’m still holding some slim hope that Nani, Kagawa and Rvp, will form a deadly alliance that is well oiled and fluid. If that happens, we’ll score against anyone. I’m also hoping Evans will come in and form a solid alliance with one of Vidic or Ferdinand. I’m hoping Cleverley gets bolder and more influential and Anderson stops getting injured all the time and tries playing more intelligently.
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@Jay wire:
Let me start with you point 1,
Fergie lies and treats people like crap? This is a lazy statement. People always use this when one of the favourites are shown the door. Berba was given chances and he failed to constantly take them. Berba was ineffectual from the bench unlike Owen, Fergie took a decision, which was correct as Owen had a reputation of scoring from the bench. He did well in spells but he style did not suit us. He was the wrong fit, but he hardly tried to adapt his game. Wes Brown called Fergie a “c@#t in preseason, he got what he deserved. Ruud fell out massively with Ronaldo and CQ, calling the Portuguese player to run back to his Daddy. Ronaldo called back saying his father was dead and their relationship was untenable, he chose correct as Ronaldo became the second best player in the World. Beckham celebrity status was far too great for anyone, he wanted to leave and was shown the door. But why lets get facts in the way
Point 2,
Nani is inconsistent, this is fact. Wingers normally are, but he does some great things but he also frustrates. Nani gets rotated, this is policy for the larger clubs and there are spells when Nani is ineffectual, but they are times when he is a World beater. Even Craig admits this, watch him play he is very in and out.. If you chose not to then you are in denial.
Point 3,
Considering we have the worst possible coaches, the worst tactics we seem still to be successful. This is without a rich Sheik, Oligarch at the helm. Sometimes you need to understand that Fergie is a man motivator. He isn’t a tactical coach like the geniuses AVB or Brendan Rogers….. He is more of a force of nature and his record is incredible, don’t you support Juve and Barca too? I forgot about Anderson, I hope he is never fit and leaves, are you still talking about his potential?
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@Stephen: Fergie as a man manager has no equal (regardless of my thoughts re berbatov and the way he was treated by fergie to which i agree with jay).
Which just makes you think all the more if we could partner him with a tactical wizard, how much better we could be.
Fact is we have still been successful. But put scholes, carrick, nani, rooney, hernandez and valencia in most teams and they’ll be successful.
Looking at us from a tactical view point though, jay is correct that there are a lot of problems, to which i cant see how anyone can disagree.
Were possibly the only top side in world football who still plays 4-4-2 (although hopefully that has changed now due to kagawa who i will mention later).
We struggle anytime we try to deviate from that.
Pressing the opposition is still an alien consept, and yet teams like everton and southampton, wigan last season, seemed to have it mastered against us (albeit after 60 mins they reverted back to a defensive philosophy and tried to hold out by putting everyone behind the ball).
Thats without even mentioning our lack of ability to keep the bloody ball for more than 2 minutes, and lack of fluidity and tempo (we seem to have played as half pace for much of the last 2 years).
Such is the reason kagawa is potentially such a huge signing for us. If used correctly, this is the man who could make such a huge difference particularly in terms of being able to play different systems and improving us technically. Rvp too.
Its still early days though with these 2, and so far unfortunately we still seem to be leaking goals at the back, and our midfield once again looks like it will cost us.
But put a competent number 2 in there, and i believe it takes us to another level.
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@tonymontanna4united:
We really don’t know what went on with Berba mate, it looks on paper he was dealt unfairly. He could have been disruptive around the training ground and around younger players as far as we know. He certainly wasn’t an impact player, so putting him on the bench in a final would have been a waste of time in my opinion.
the players you have mentioned, Fergie bought or brought through so I am not seeing the point there. We have altered our system now with Kagawa, but he have always been a side who embrace wingers.. Much has been the debate about the new Red Rants darling Nani and he is an out and out winger. We pass the ball sideways to get the ball out wide. I agree we need to look at our system especially in Europe, what do you know about Rene or Phelan? Do you know what they do on the training ground, are you there? I am not trying to be augmentative, but people bemoan our coaches simply on their appearance and nothing more else.
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@Stephen: See my comment below. Nani is not inconsistent IF you employ facts such as his stats over the last 5 years (including all games, club+national team) and compare to other world class wingers (+ Malouda
):
Nani (Goals + Assists per year): 15, 14, 17, 30, 30.
Malouda (Goals + Assists per year): 6, 19, 30, 22, 12
Ribery (Goals + Assists per year): 25, 37, 17, 26, 32
Robben (Goals + Assists per year): 7, 17, 32, 21, 25
And to claim are coaches are OK, because “we still seem to be successful” is an odd statement. We lose to teams which are far more technical than us and more and more teams are becoming technical (City, Swansea, and most european leagues, for example). We are a losing breed and Fergie has not been able to transform his past success into new success in this environment. #19 was not exactly a quality performance as we dragged across the finish line. Barca exposed us in 2008 and 2009. Bilboa exposed us last year. Ajax outplayed us at OT too last year.
If we don’t realize our weakness after the last two years, then we surely have inept coaches or blind management. Neither are good for us.
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@Opti: You can read into stats whatever you like. Look I like Nani, but he has an element on here who fail to see he faults. He does still make the wrong decisions. He still dives. His histrionics at times are embarrassing. He still shoots when he should pass. All in all he wants to be Ronaldo which he is not. He does many things right and I really like him because he is a match winner, but this does not hide his faults. Lets not forget he is still only 25 and will mature.
We lost the league on goal difference mate, I cannot see how this is an odd statement. We were 30 seconds away from being champions, with the signings of RvP and Kagawa we are already a better side. If Vidic had stayed fit, I am sure we would have won the league comfortably. We have changed our system slightly already this season, I agree the side had some weaknesses, especially in midfield but to say all our coaches are inept is laughable. Barca exposed us? well they are the best team ever, they would expose many sides. How are we a loosing breed? I really do not understand that statement, what we didn’t win a trophy for the first time in seasons?
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@Stephen:
Was Bilboa best team ever? Because they looked as good against us as Barca.
Sure, Nani is not Ronaldo, but he is best United player ever, but stats exactly point out that he is NOT inconsistent. So, IF you want to criticize Nani, use what you said above rather than “inconsistent”.
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@Jay wire: Mate whoever thumbed down your post comments are as little knowing about football as they are cowards to thumb down and not make a comment on why they don’t agree with you. Truth is, they can’t disprove what you have written in your post, because you got it right. I am so tired of party line fans at OT who like the blind leading the blind fall into the ditch together, just become part of the old boy network, who feel no need for change, and are prepared to turn up at OT and say nothing, even though it is obvious the brand of football we have put out the last 3 seasons has been droll, and the product standard of our football has fallen. Man Utd are a shadow of what they used to be where purist football is concerned, but hey I don’t care if they don’t want to hear it, but our present team and the SLOW SLOW SLOW snail paced football, continual backpassing, or side passing, lack of real pace and penetration for large chunks of games, and oh dear me the PANIC STATIONS of our MF and defence when the opposition increases the pace of their football against us, we become conference like in our mad cap hoof it anywhere defending – we lost our composure when under enemy fire! So thumbs down or not, I expect that from those on the board who like SAF don’t like to hear the truth sometimes!
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@Craig Mc: I will it wasn’t me, but I am not toeing the party line. People get over romantic about the past. I remember Grognard and many others when we had Tevez, Ronaldo ect still moaning about tactics, Fergie and we should so and so. Andrei posted once wen we beat Barca, that he changed loyalties during the game as we in essence parked the bus. The reality is we are still competing, I would have liked to have seen another midfield player sign, but and delighted with RvP and Kagawa. To keep moaning about our coaches is stupid, how do we know what the do on the training ground? Netto.
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@Jay wire:
Nice comment JW!!
1. In the general sense, I agree with you. I think RvN, Tevez, and Brown deserved the door because you cannot speak up against your boss in public (such cowardice!) and expect no repercussions, even if you are a star. Beckham may have been quiet, but at the same time there were contract issue over his image rights and supposed wife-pressure, so I can understand the financial break-up. The Berba saga is different from the others in the sense that Berba kept a positive mindset and didn’t speak to the public. In fact, I would say that Fergie took advantage of Berba’s class and therein lies the main difference from the other cases. It was a sh*tty move by Fergie to let our 31 million pound, #19th league-topping scorer, and technical guru flounder on bench for more than a year and not let him be on the team for the Champions League final. Recall when Fergie promised a spot to John O’Shea in Rome final.
Now, replace “O’shea” with “Berbatov”. Maybe Berba is not as versatile (he is a striker!), but everything else was EXACTLY fitting for Berbatov. Yet, Berba was completely excluded. This one is on Fergie and he owes Berba an apology, no question!
2. Completely agree, though with a slight modification. Nani is a world class player, but his form can vary over a wider range than most top players, making him seem inconsistent (the 3 years stats don’t lie!). Most games he is unplayable (right or left wing) and his tricks work well. However, in a minority of his games, he doesn’t look up before crossing, his corners are shit, and he tries the same trick ad nausea and cannot pull it off, which means his performance is below world class because there is a lack of end-product. A few times he even loses his head. At his best he is as good as Ronaldo, but his worst is far below Ronaldo’s worst, so he seems inconsistent.
3. Completely agree. If we had Barca’s or Madrid’s starting 11, we would still not win La Liga (look at embarrassing Athl Bilbao games last season). What Fergie has in man-management, United currently lacks in team tactics and finesse. We can get the best out of our players, but we are not good enough at getting the most out of our team. Kagawa and RvP will force us to change our thinking or else these players will end up like Berbatov.
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@Opti: coward or illiterate, he who gave me thumbs down.
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@Opti:
Well mate that’s quite true – WE are Manchester United and WE play in the Premier League.
Good grief that must be one of the dumbest observations I’ve seen in a while.
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@Redrich: It’s called logic. Since La Liga is not as tough to win as EPL (with Barca or Madrid teams), if we (i.e. our technical team/coaches) cannot even defeat opposition from La Liga (i.e. win La Liga), sure the EPL is out of question.
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If I were being paid £250k a week, I would like to think that I could have some self restraint and not put on 7lbs in 2 months. This is typical of the man, totally over indulged and has no understanding of life and the ordinary supporter. He like Ronaldo who now is sulking due to his salary at his “dream” club Madrid fail to recognise the economic climate we are in today. People cannot send £50 – £100 twice a week to support your club. If you take home £13m a year, you need to be professional at the very least. Ronaldo is a cock of the highest order, but he is teetotal, never misses training. I hate people knocking Rooney, he was terrific last season and carried a very average United side. But if he stopped smoking, took his career seriously he could be getting closer to Messi and Ronaldo. He is an easy target, he is English which never helps, he isn’t a poser and looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp. He claimed United lacked ambition, maybe he should take a big look at himself.
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@Stephen: Wage caps are the way forward as far im concerned mate, but it will never happen in a million years more is the pity.
As for rooney, well as somebody who knocks him a fair bit, id just like to make my position clear.
Part of the reason i do have a go at wayne is because id hate to see him end up the same way gazza did. In many ways they are so so similar, and yet despite the way it all ended up for gascgoigne wayne still seems to let the unhealthy habits that affect him, not worry him a bit.
For a top earner at this club, i expect a little bit more than that tbh. As far as im concerned with the rvp and kagawa signings, its now a case of buck up wayne or basically bugger off.
Because talented as he is, once a player is gone mentally and loses what it was that once made them so special, it really is better to cut them loose.
Such is the reason why im also so hard on evra. Everything with him is out of pure laziness and bone idleness.
Cant be arsed defending but i’ll bust a gut to get up the other end of the pitch and try and score
Was never a fan of big john o’shea, but atleast you could always say he gave his bloody all and always put in 100%. Just like you or i would if we were put in the team.
Its little things like that, that once are gone in a player, really leaves them half the player they once were.
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@tonymontanna4united:
Wage caps will never work in modern football, incentives will be found via property or other ways. I think he is aware of the competition now, Kagawa was poor against Southampton but in the two previous games he has showed great potential.
Rooney does work far and beyond what was needed from him. Tracking back fullbacks ect. He isn’t getting any younger and the better he looks after himself now, the longer he will be able to play on for. He needs to get hold of himself, look at what he has got and look after himself.
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@Stephen: Agreed, there are always loopholes for everything, from City selling the naming rights for a stadium they don’t own for £400 million to Real selling their training ground to the Spanish government for 200 million then buying it back for a fiver.
Disgusting.
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@Moscow: If we could get all our debts cleared to free our club financially, then I wouldn’t be averse to a compromise on naming rights, as long as Old Trafford stadium remained a part of it. Just hypothetically as an example – Swissair – Old Trafford Stadium, or do you lads all feel aghast about that?
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@Craig Mc: How about more likely scenario Gazprom – Old Trafford Stadium?
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As much as I am delighted with RVP and Kagawa, our doughnut formation is extremely irritating.
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@Moscow: You can sugar-coat it all you want.
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Some direct quotes from Rooney:
“I’m like most blokes, I put on a few pounds after a holiday. The scales in the club gym tell me I’ve put on a few more pounds than expected – seven. Seven!” As a striker I need to work hard all the time. I need to be sharp, which means my fitness has to be right to play well. If it isn’t, it shows”
As you guys know I am one of Rooney’s biggest fans. But when he comes out with comments like that I really do think it would make sense to sell him to a moneybags club for £40 million or so to get him off our wage bill.
Lewandowski of Dortmund doesn’t have long left on his contract and he combined beautifully with Kagawa last season so if we could pick him up for £20 million we’d have £20 million to buy that central midfielder we desperately need as I don’t think either Anderson or Cleverley are the answer
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@colver: rooney doesnt really deserve that sort of treatment- he is a great player and us fans need to support the lad
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@ash is the man: I cheered him on in that wigan pie eating contest
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@RedEyes: i wont dignify that with a response
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@ash is the man: Not really, because the Glazers are supporting him to the tune of 250k a week.
The boy needs to buckle down and start earning some of it!!
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@Redrich: With 35 goals in 44 games last season I would say he did, but coming back to training over weight isn’t acceptable.
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I think we need an article about Nani and I know he divides opinion in here, who fancies writing a guest article?
I want it ‘pro’ Nani, the Nani haters (like me) can have their say in the comments.
If someones up for a Berbatov article, the same applies.
Get in touch.
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@Ian: There seems to be a black and white or a ying yang attitude towards Nani. You either support him and fail to see he faults. believe he is worth £45m, which is laughable and criticise Young and Valencia to make his support more solid. Or think he is a circus animal who at best is inconsistent, which he is. People hit you with stats, which has nothing to do with constancy.
Personally I like him, but he is very frustrating. He could be one of the best in the world, but there is a mechanism in his DNA which wants to be Ronaldo which for me is holding him back, he needs to be Nani.
With this argument there is a shade of grey obviously with the lad, he has terrific ability and at times is unplayable, remember against Arsenal? He can also be terrible, like against Everton. As I have said earlier he is still 25 but needs to come to age really this season if he is ever to reach his great potential, yes that word again..
Lets get behind him as we will need him on his game if we are to win the big two this season.
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@Stephen: There’s only one thing holding Nani back mate, and his name is Sir Alex Ferguson. Mate you talk about Nani being at times unplayable, and at times terrible, and my answer to that is their is not one Man Utd player who isn’t at times terrible. If you would rather build up the Ashley Young’s and Vally’s of this world, Vally who is excellent often in games at OT, but often is dreadful in away games, then that’s your prerogative, but I couldn’t agree with you. Nani has consistency with Portugal in every game practically, so I would ask yourself the question why he is not finding it at OT. I would say 2 things, Portugal PLAY Nani every game, and have faith in his ability and give him freedom of movement and encourage him to express himself, United don’t. The 2nd thing is, that with Portugal he is not likely to get gobshites like Rooney and yes Berba screaming at him and throwing their hands up in the air. Nani reports back to training the right weight and fully fit and ready to go, unlike some who booze and smoke their way all through the summer, and look like a barrel of lard ready to melt on the pitch after 30 minutes play, and who should not just be left out for one game, but should be fined all of his wages for the weeks United can’t play him because he is not professionally where he should be. If anyone lacks ambition it is Wazza, and it has happened for the last 3 seasons that he has come back overweight and unready. Nani needs to leave OT for his own sanity and wellbeing end of. Sorry Stephen mate, not getting at you, just having a rant because I don’t think Nani deserves half the shite he has to put up with from some United fans.
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@Craig Mc: I fail to understand why would Sir Alex Ferguson hold Nani back???? Does Sir Alex tell him to purposely play like a dick sometimes? What does Sir Alex Ferguson get in holding his most charismatic player back?
And are there any other players that Sir Alex Ferguson is holding back or is it just Nani? Lets have a list.
While we are at it, can we also say actaully Sir Alex Ferguson is holding back Valencia as well? Otherwise the lad would have eclipsed Messi by now! After all, somebody gotta watch that right side (as we have no right back playing in the side). Maybe same applies for Young too. Sir Alex is holding him back.
Frigging excuses…
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@jos: I do find it odd that one of the best managers in the World would hold a player like him back, especially after how he nurtured Ronaldo so well.
He has also played 89 games in the past two seasons, is that being held back?
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@jos: and also Stephen mi man – I already said why SAF is holding Nani back, as Nani and his Portuguese manager have said, he has shackled him in that he is not allowed to express himself, because as he has said publically, SAF won’t let him. Jos – yes he has held back other players, Rafael is the latest complainer that he enjoys playing for Brazil more than United because he can express himself, whereas he has a strict role at United. Also I believe SAF holds people back by not only his tinkerism, which even SAF himself admits hindered United in CL last season, but also by persisting in playing players OUT OF POSITION continually. Okay when there are injuries, but SAF does it when players are not injured, and players are hindered when they do not play in their natural positions. Van Persie will be next to play on the wings or in MF
. If you say this isn’t true, then I’d like to know who you are watching my friend, because it isn’t Man Utd.
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@Craig Mc:
I love your passion 
Mate stop comapring Nani to Rooney, they are no linked in the same argument.
Nani should start if fit, we all agree with this. Why Welbeck started at the weekend was stupid. I am not building up any other players, this is not one player is better than another. I think Nani is a cracking player but is frustrating, these are facts.
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@Stephen:
– where have I compared Wazza to Nani, Wazza has none of the technical ability of Nani, and I was just saying he would not be suitable in central MF which Wazza says he would like when he can’t get past defenders anymore. I would say he doesn’t get past defenders anymore now, because I remember the Wayne, and you remember too Stephen, who was lightning fast, and his strength was he could beat defenders at will, but his standards have dropped, and yes he gets away with it, because he is a very excellent goalscorer. When that dries up though Stephen, he will be finished, but lets see whether your man can prove me wrong, which I hope he does, because that would be fantastic for United. 
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@Craig Mc: Mate Rooney isn’t my man bro, for me just gets too much stick on here. I just stand up for our leading goalscorer
I really don’t want him to leave and moving to Russia essentially for the money would be career suicide, I will wish him the best of luck matey.
I am a United fan, I don’t support any players above my club mate. You seem to love Nani more than United
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@Stephen: I do love the lad Stephen, because I believe he is treated like shite at OT, and by lots of United fans. You will remember I also said the same about RVN, Berba recently, Becks, Brown, and others SAF has treated shabiily, so hardly just favouring Nani. Thing is Stephen amongst the lot that we have now playing for us on the field, Nani is the only one that excites me, with that little bit of flair and magic. I love players like that, can I help it
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@Stephen: If the likes of Young on last year of their contract is worth 17m, if Carrol is worth 35m, if Hulk is worth 40-50m then yes Nani is worth 45m.
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@AndyCR7: He isn’t worth £45m sorry.
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@Stephen: Well United have said they want 30 million, so you and I will take the other 15 million as 3rd party Stephen, and split it between us, 7 and half million for each of us
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@AndyCR7: Mate are you hearing the same as me, that Zenit are in talks with lil man, and United have said 30 million is the price they want, and Zenit are trying to tie things up for Nani transfer before their transfer window ends today. If it works out, then it will be good for Nani, because the Zenit manager says he loves Nani and really wants him in his team.
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@Craig Mc: Zenith will be good for Nani? That’s a joke, right?
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@Opti: No joke Mate, he will be playing with Hulk, Witzel and other of his portuguese international team mates. At least he will be made to feel wanted there
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@Craig Mc: If 90 games in 2 seasons is unwanted then he needs to man up I say..
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@Opti: Zenit are definitely not of United caliber but they are building a pretty decent team over there. They would probably challenge for top 4 in EPL. Perhaps, you should watch few Russian league games they have added some serious quality in the recent years. Given the amount of money being pumped into the league paired with WC 2018 as a show case I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia is elevated to one of the top football leagues in the world over the next decade.
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@Andrei: Big Gazprom money helps the league in the short term.. what happens when they pull out or reduce funding? Collapse?
How will Zenith be able to satisfy FFP?
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@Opti: Gazprom is official sponsor of UEFA and CL. They pretty much own UEFA.
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@Stephen: “Or think he is a circus animal who at best is inconsistent, which he is. People hit you with stats, which has nothing to do with constancy.”
—- yearly stats over 5 year period has EVERYTHING to do with constancy and it shows that over last 5 years, despite his younger age, Nani has been as “inconsistent” as other world class wingers.
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@Opti: You tell him Opti,
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@Opti: I think many believe Nani is a good player but is very frustrating. You can sit behind stats to back up your views, but he is very in and out and many would agree.
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Wazza is now saying he wants to play in central MF – don’t make me laugh! He has no 1st touch, always lets the ball run away from him and invariably loses it, his passes too often fall short, and he is far from a good tackler, so NO thank you to the CMF role for him. He is a great goal scorer, so he should stick with what he is good at, when he is back to normal weight size that is.
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@Craig Mc: I would rather him 300lbs over weight in midfield than Anderson, who is 200lbs already over weight.
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@Stephen:
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@Stephen:
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@Craig Mc: Rooney in central midfield would be a disaster, poor first touch, zero passing ability added to the fact that he has lost his dribbling of old. We need technical maestros in midfield, and Wayne is not one of them.
But yes, I suppose he is still better than Anderson
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@Moscow: My sentiments exactly, couldn’t agree with you more mate
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He didnt say immediately but at a later point in his career. Lot of strikers end up like that. At some point he is gonna lose his speed. he will still make a terrific CM just like Stevie Me
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Guest article about Nani? Come on, someone must want it.
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