Nov 13
What Ails Manchester United?
This post has been long time coming. Ever since the Arsenal defeat angry words have been exchanged between fans over the direction the club seems to be taking on the pitch. And, while it’s too late to be doing a match report per se on the Arsenal game, it is a good time to reflect on the week(s) gone by.
So let this piece be a place where I look back at the days gone by.
So, firstly, the Arsenal game.
Contrary to what many commenters on here (and many other fans on various boards) thought, I actually thought we played very well. The movement was excellent, there was positive intent throughout the game from the lads. And when they went 2-0 down they just bossed the whole game — but for the finishing touches. Of course, one would say that’s what matters in the end. And it is true. But it is also the fine line between fans branding Fergie as a senile, over-the-hill pensioner and a genius. But that’s the way football works, and one can expect even the most knowledgeable and intelligent people lose their minds over trivial things as football. So I’ll leave the saccharine sweet optimists and the gloomy naysayers to themselves. [If you ask me, I wouldn't have the time for either of them, but then, I myself do fall in one of these categories, in varying degrees, during my time following United -- so it doesn't really matter.]
Back to the game, it wasn’t perfect — to make a vast understatement. Where we really let the game slip by was in the personnel selected to play the game. But again, one can’t lay the blame squarely on the manager. In retrospect, it was easy to say that Rafael deserved to start ahead of the Neviller. But with Brown unfit, and Rafael having looked suspect defensively, at times, in the past — but most importantly, being way too young and inexperienced for such an occasion — it seemed a fair call on Ferguson to ‘protect’ his ward and play the more seasoned pro. It was a different issue altogether that Neville seemed so badly out of sorts and allowed the likes of Nasri run rings around him.
Of course, one could see this coming as Neville’s dip in form and performance has been so marked that it’s difficult to just pin it on his long injury layoff. Yes, it was the injury layoff, but age and his time away from the game has hastened the decline one would expect of a 33 year old. Perhaps, O’Shea would have been a better option. But then Fergie has always been one to give his old charges a fair run.
Now that it hasn’t exactly worked, I do hope Fergie — and most importantly, Neville — realise the problem created by his inclusion against teams that have a lot of pace in the wings. I love Neville, but his decline has been markedly obvious, and whilst it’s sad to see, I’d rather have memories of the marauding right back than the confused, lumbering veteran — it’s really painful to watch. And it doesn’t help if said confused, lumbering veteran is also captain of the side. He’s an honest trier, but all his efforts can’t make up for the decline in his powers.
It would take a miracle from the captain, from now on, to make me eat my words — although if it does happen, those would be the sweetest words I’d ever get to eat.
Moving on, and a brief word on the midfield. It’s easy to say this now, but if we had a fully fit Darren Fletcher alongside Carrick we’d have been singing a different tune, and Arsenal’s demise would be complete — so to speak. Of course, a lot of if’s there, but such has been his form so far that when he returns, we won’t feel the loss of Owen SaHa-rgreaves; excuse the comparison with Saha, Hargreaves fans, but I can’t see it any other way. I blame the medical team for not having done this in the summer, but that’s for another day. Anderson seems a shade of the player he was last season. Although, part of the reason for that could be because we didn’t have too high of an expectation from him last season, yet he held his own in the big games. He seems a bit off in lot of departments of his game. But I still see promise from the lad. He may not become the midfield schemer we seemed to have thought of him to be, but there is a chance that he could become a marauding midfielder in the Essien mould. Time is obviously on his side, and my instinct tells me he’ll turn out alright. Although, he wouldn’t be the attacking midfielder we paid money for.
The striking department divides opinion greatly this season. I found the selection of Park understandable — because, when you have Ronaldo and Berbatov not renowned for defensive duties, you’d need someone who can do that. But if the manager is not going to give Nani a fairly extended run in the team, then it will hurt the lad. Berbatov flitted in and out of the game as did Ronaldo, but they, along with Rooney, created enough chances to win the game. They didn’t put them away, though, and these things can happen.
To get a sense of perspective, playing away from home, we had significantly more possession than them, more shots on goal than them and a lot of chances that were, for the lack of a better word, ‘put-away-able’. But it was one of those days that didn’t go our way. And a loss against Arsenal is not something to be ashamed about. But let that not paper over the obvious cracks that have creeped into our game.
And my primary gripe was the alarming ease with which we seem to be conceding goals this season. That is my main point of worry. That, and the blow-hot, blow-cold nature of our game, all season, on which I’ve talked about numerous times. Rio and Vidic have to share a bit of the blame, but more so, EVDS. His kicking has been suspect but, more worryingly, he seems unsure in his decision making and that confidence (or lack of) seems to be rubbing on to his back four. And this is being reflected on our less than stellar goals-against tally in recent games.
So is our season over? Well, that’s a ridiculous question, but it sure is hard for us to hope that both, Liverpool and Chelsea, will simultaneously implode over Christmas and we’ll sail right through with the cup waiting for us, come May. Of course, Liverpool will implode. But of Chelsea, I’m not so sure. So do I need a title this year for my trophy blood lust to be satiated. I think not.
I’ve always been more of a grateful fan than a demanding one. I have also mentioned myself as a low-expectation fan. I need the simple joys of the lads going out to play some good football to keep me going — winning trophies aren’t everything for me. (Well, they are, but I can live two seasons without trophies.) I remain eternally grateful to the club for the sort of football it has played for as long as I can remember following its fortunes. So a bad series of games won’t instantly make me throw the kitchen sink at my television set. Therefore, whilst I’d be disappointed if we don’t win the league, like any fan would, I do comprehend the enormity of the task that awaits United. We may have smooth sailing in terms of opposition lying in wait, but we have a hectic December schedule, what with a stupid World Club Championship to fly to.
There are more than a few chinks that need to be ironed out, but we’ve been through worse. So let’s cut the Champions of England and Europe a little more slack, shall we? Or scratch that — to avoid running the risk of people jumping at me for telling them to cut the team slack — I’ll stick to cutting the team some slack for now.
End of one of my longest posts in a while. Over to you…
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Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (487)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (348)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Rahul: I think you misunderstood me. I meant to say that Tevez needs to play more games with Berbatov if he is to be the player he once was. It took him time to get to know Rooney, Zamora before that, and now Dimi. They have all the qualifications to become a great partnership, its just that they need to know each other. Fergie needs to take a risk and play Berbatez more.
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@RedDevilEddy: I agree and I don’t care if Rooney gets pissed, Carlos and Berba needs games together, spot on.
About your views on the capataincy Rooney is a liability at times, and is too imature to captain any side. Neville is vocal, you should watch him live mate, I not too sure if it matters who wears the armband really, does it really matter? Also captaind don’t have to be vocal, Beckham, Cantona, Totti and even Gerrard are not vocal, thay just lead by example.
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@Stephen: For one, he is not (and he shouldnt be even if he is in top shape) a natural starter!!! He is one of the worst players on the pitch nowdays! And he was absent all of season last season. He doesnt merit being captain of the club anymore. When was the last time you saw him lead by example?
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@jos: I think we should show the servants of our club some loyalty.
I is hard to say say he is a natural starter because he clearly isn’t one, it was not his fault he was injured last season, I am sure he would have rather played.
He always leads by example becuse he is a true red and to say he isn’t is wrong, he is a proper United legend. While he is at the club and in the playing staff he is club captain, he certainly should not be a first chice starter, but I will give him a little longer to try to regain fitness and form, he deserves that.
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@RedDevilEddy: & @Stephen: I fully understand n support the Berbatez axis, albiet a few games later than now. For now I just want us to get some good results, and the Berbatez thing is risky you know.. we might miss more sitters in the ‘get-to-know-your-strike-partner-better-while-Ronaldo-has-to-score-all-goals’ phase!!
But admittedly, this is indeed a catch 22 situation. Each option with its own advantages and perils. But starting Tevez for a good few games is the common denominator here, isn’t it???? And come to think of it, only takes one mad tackle from madman rooney and he’s out for 3 matches straight. Force of hand to play Tevez & Berbatov!
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@Stephen: Rooney is too young and too inexperienced to be a captain. But he has a spirit that would lighten up all the other players on the team. I dont know if that has anything to do with captaincy, but its an important asset nontheless. And maybe he gets to speak more freely to refs then.
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@RedDevilEddy: He needs calming down matey, by other players and thats his problem, at least Keane was influencial, Rooney needs to grow up a lot before he can be even considered for the role, he looks for trouble.
Berbatov and Tevez need a go it is not exactly a risk? is it anymore of a risk than playing Rafael or Anderson when they came in?
They are great players and will be able to play together, we are playing Stoke at home, a game we should win.
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@Rahul: Tevez needs to know his partner. If he doesnt do that then it will only be to the clubs bad. If Tevez plays 2 or 3 games in a row with Berba next to him, then it will only be good. I would rather get one bad result now than 2 or 3 in the future. Like you said, only one tackle on/from Rooney and he could be out for a time. He can either get a red card or an injury, but he can be out. And what do we have then? A partnership that hasnt been tested or neatured.
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@Stephen: Wayne needs to calm down. But so did Keane in his early days, Cantona, even Gaz. They have all done crazy shit and have a huge temperament and get frustrated. Or am I worng?
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@RedDevilEddy: But they wern’t captain then, and Gary was a model professional.
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@Stephen: And Wayne isnt captain now. Maybe a captaincy would make him calm down, who knows!
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Personally I’m surprised that Fergie hasn’t been grinding out formations that involve all 4 of them in training. Given that Nani has been woefully inconsistent, Giggs is past it, and Park hasn’t quite done it against medium to lower quality teams – one would have thought Fergie would get more out of the Rooney/Tevez/Berba/Ronaldo combination. The one (two?) times we’ve seen it, it looked like it left us exposed and ‘too many cooks’ but I think it could work, and surely is worth trying out. I think maybe a 4-2-3-1 would be the ideal option:
————-VDS———–
–Wes—Rio—–Vidic-Evra-
—-Fletcher—-Carrick—-
-Ronaldo—-Berba—Tevez–
———–Rooney———-
I can’t see any reason why this wouldn’t work, except that the interchanging players don’t hold enough form for each of them to predict where they are. But first touch/vision wise, that’s a lot of talent. Maybe Berba remains relavitely static and used as a pivot, with the other 3 buzzing about.
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@RedDevilEddy: Unlikely it will be a burden for him mate trust me. He has to earn the captaincy and sometimes hhis behaviour is bordering on lunacy, he may well be one day but certainly not soon.
G Nev is club captain, Giggsy is vice then Rio, we can argue the rights and wrongs about who wears the armband, but they all should be captains when playing, I think sometimes we read too much into it.
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@Stephen: Steve, we are just some regular people talking about who should be captain. If I say I think Rio or Roo should be captain it doesnt mean it will happen. Its just my opinion.
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@Beachryan: A little attacking matey against Chelsea and the top sides that would get ripped to shreds, as they genuinely have 5 in midfield. Lampard, Mikel, Deco against Fletcher who should not start if everyone is fit, and Carrick who simply can’t tackle. Maybe against weaker sides and when we are one down but nevver to start a big game.
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@RedDevilEddy: You are wrong matey!!
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@Beachryan:
one problem: What Stephen said, they will be brushed aside in midfield
another problem: TEVEZ IS NOT A WINGER!
last problem: That would be a complete chaos! No-one would be in their natural position except maybe Ronny. Berba is not a CAM, Tevez is not a LM and Wayne is not a natural finisher.
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@Stephen: How can I be wrong? I am not right, and Im not wrong! Im just neutral.
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@RedDevilEddy: Spot on mate.
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Rooney is a doubt for tomorrow. Apparantley he has a chest infection.
Source: Manutd.com
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@RedDevilEddy: Ha ha just joking we all have an opinion, yours is just wrong!!!
The reason way Rooney should not be captain is really he is very imature, he can be a liability at times, he is too young. Also I think he needs to concentrate on his own game, 3 bad games then 3 good games, he needs consistancy, also he is not or should not be a shoe in starter.
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@Stephen: NOOOOOOOO!! YOU ARE WRONG!
Santa does exist. 
You are lying… 
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@ stephen – absolutely right, didn’t want that formation played against good opposition. But do think it would be effective against teams taht come to set up shop.
@ RedDevilEddy – I disagree a bit, I think Berba really plays as almost a AMF. He is very rarely the furthest man forward, and loves to receive the ball with back to goal, and look to release people in front of him. You can shunt him up next to Rooney if that looks better, but he has played behind him alot since joining.
As for Tevez not being a winger, I agree, but he plays there for Argentina and I don’t envision it as a far wide position, more central than an out and out winger.
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what is a real worry is the squad lacks balance, we have no left footed left winger but we have 3 right midfield players, we have 3 right backs and one natural left back and I am not counting Fabio.
The midfield lacks a true world class star in the centre, Carrick not world class, Hargo good holder but always injured, Andy young and inconsistant, Fletcher average, Scholes is, but 34 tomorrow, is this just me or have Craig and Grog started to rub off on me!
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@Beachryan: I think its trying to force a system to incorparate all your best players, Berba needs to wonder Carlos isn’t a winger and Rooney isn’t an out and out striker. Also you are dependent on a light weight midfield too much.
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@ Stephen – fair enough, that’s right to an extent, but it also holds that our attacking players are so specialised they can’t play slightly out of position. Despite Fergie talking about Rooney being used more as an SS this season, when he’s played he’s usually the furthest man forward, playing ahead of Berbatov. Ronaldo pretty much goes where he wants, and while I agree Tevez isn’t a winger by nature (as he dosen’t have explosive pace or great crossing) he’s still a quality footballer and can offer a healthy alternative to Park/Nani. Other option is to play more like Barca that won the champs league, with the 3 behind hte striker intechanging and cutting inwards.
As for the centre of midfield, I agree we’re not in great shpae, but Fletch/Ando combined with Carrick should be fine to hold off any mid to bottom table teams.
But hey, just a thought to try and solve the berba/rooney/tevez connumdrum. As the only option at the moment seems ot be to not play them all.
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I think we’ll thrash Stoke tomorrow…
..just like Yuvraj Singh thrashed the English bowlers today.
hyuk, hyuk…sorry, couldn’t resist.
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@antsBoy: Oh, oh, Ive got another exaple!
I think we`ll thrash Stoke tomorrow…
..just like ******* thrashed **** the other day.
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@Beachryan: Rooney’s finishing at best is eratic, note last week!!
We need in my view play a consistant side with balance for a period of time as we have after Stoke, Villa, Spurs and City. These are tough games and I believe we ned to get maximum points to stand a good chance of staying in the race.
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I tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk wwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddd aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
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Iiiiiiii aaaaaaaaaammmmm booooooooooorrreeeeeeeeed!
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@Stephen: ‘Squeaky Bum’ time has come early this season, eh?
We do need the maximum points from our next few games and I’m hoping we can get them. As per tmz game, the roonster seems to be out, but we got the argentine pitbull rearing to go, so we’ll be fine. 
I hope we play a steely, but purposeful midfield. As in, a midfield capable of putting a tackle in and contributing productively to the attack. I reckon Carrick and Fletch fit that bill. Fletch is a tough tackler, but is also capable of making intelligent runs into the box, esp when they park in their half. Carrick is also a good screener, but also capable of releasing the ball early for counters and directing play from deep in midfield. Here’s the formation I hope for:
———–Foster
Nev — Rio — Vida — Evra
——-Carrick–Fletch——-
Ronaldo——————Nani
———Tevez—————
————–Berbatov——-
Foster, IMO, will be a better option in this particular match. We need a keeper who can confidently come off his line and properly deal with Stoke’s set-plays and unfortunately, VDS hasn’t shown that confidence so far this season. With Brown presumably out, I reckon the Nevster will be the right option for this game, although, if Stoke decide to camp in their half, Rafael would contribute more to attack and not have to worry too much about defending. The other three in defence are constants.
Ronaldo and Nani should provide pace and supply from the wings. I expect a fair amount of counters in this game, especially after Delap’s many throws. This is where Carrick and our attackers need to resonate. Berba and Tevez should do well up top. Maybe Tevez should stay further up the pitch as Berba is a better creator and supplier. However, Tevez, it seems, is incapable of remaining in the box, so I guess Berba will have to do the No. 9 duty.
What y’all reckon?
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@RedDevilEddy: No kidding mate
You’re a gamer right? Then try Mass Effect. Finished the game myself. One of the best RPG’s ever. Highly recommended.
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@Gabriel: I don’t think starting Neville would be a good idea mate. Imo we need to start Brown as his aerial presence and toughness will be vital in dealing with Stoke’s roughness and Rory Delap’s long throws.
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@Gabriel: Is Brown still out? I thought we had a fully fit squad barring Scholes and you know who.
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@ RDJ – Firstly Mass Effect was superb, I concur
Secondly, Wes is indeed crocked. I think it’s his ankle. Wonder if you actually put O’Shnizzle on the right and Evra on the left?
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In what may be the most unrelated comments this season, I want you guys to check these episodes out. I dont know if you have watched it on BBC or anything, but these episodes are based on real things. Some of you may find it interesting as watchin grass grow, but I think most of you will find it very cool and interesting. If you want to continue to watch the film press the episode 1, part 2 and so on.
I found it very cool and I think its important for the human race to know such things. Im a big fan of science too, so that may explain a bit.
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@RDJ: Yup, Brown is seeminly still recovering from his ankle injury. I thought about Rafael as I expect Stoke to setup camp in their half, use thier strikers to counter and hopefully conceieve set-play scenarios. However, you never know and given that they are a very physical side, Neville would be a safer option incase they intend to all out attack and utilise their physicality.
I really hope Fergie opts for Foster. This kid needs to be thrown in the deep end sooner than later. It’s obvious VDS’s career is coming to an end and with it, his confidence and supremacy in the area. We need to give Foster that confidence he needs to boss around our defenders and perform at the top of his game; the only to do that is to play him regularly.
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@RedDevilEddy: That’s a very good point. Keane especially was a dirty player with a mean streak and he constantly got himself in yellow card trouble and quite often received the red card. Problem is that he was a Central midfield player who’s role it was to get down and dirty. Cantona wasn’t really dirty but he had a temper in the way he talked and was occasionally prone to losing his composure, but not like Rooney. Rooney goes at people at full speed and lacks common sense. He comes from a family of pugilists and it shows because quite often there is not enough brain matter being used between those big cauliflower ears to help him out at times like those. If he had more composure and controlled not only his emotions but his wasteful use of energy, the sky would be the limit for him. I’d like to believe that in time he will improve but I am not so sure. I actually think we have seen improvement this year in both his temper and his use of energy and you think he is taking a step forward, but then he’ll have a game where he reverts to his old self and it’s two steps back again. Shrek is truly an enigma.
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@Beachryan: O’Shea? *shudder* Well, nowadays anybody’s better than the Nevster.
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@Gabriel: I agree about Foster. Among our three goal keepers, Foster looks best equipped to deal with the aerial ball. And i have a feeling that we might have to deal with a lot of them aerial balls.
Hope Tevez gets a goal. His confidence is really low at the moment. He could really use a goal now. Oh and Ando too
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I finally had a chance to watch the QPR game last night and although I was frustrated with much of what I saw, I was impressed with a few people. Again I was impressed with the boldness and imagination of Rafael on the right side and Possebon’s coolness in the middle. Welbeck did impress me when he came on with some nice touches and good common sense. When he was awarded that penalty I thought his positioning was excellent and he was making things happen trying hard to find space in the 18 yard box. Something Mr Tevez doesn’t particularly fancy doing. I think the lad is good enough that he should be on the subs bench for every game and that Tevez should get more chances to start alongside both Berbatov and Rooney, similar to what Beachryan has been saying. At this point we have nothing to lose except Tevez himself unless Fergie is willing to give the lad a chance on either the left or right wings or as a second striker. I still would prefer Nani but Tevez may be the better choice right now. He is not as naturally gifted playing wide but his energy and desire has to count for something. If anything, his pest like presence coupled with Rooney’s could both open spaces for Berbatov and Ronaldo to exploit. I’m not saying it would work but it is worth experimenting for a game or two to see. Fergie needs to do something.
Playing Park is not an option. I’m sorry but that stubby legged lad offers nothing of any substantial value to the team. Yes he works hard but very little is ever accomplished because frankly, the lad does not display much skill. If Nani worked as hard as Park with his ability, we would have another world class player, but unfortunately he doesn’t. My other concern is who to play between Anderson and Fletcher? My heart says Fletcher because he has greatly improved his finishing, distribution and ball control aspects of his game. But Anderson offers more speed and urgency at the position but with a big downgrade on actual offensive attributes. Carrick is a no brainer, he plays but he also needs to be more attack oriented. I would even like to see Possebon play every so often in an EPL game. I think this boy has Scholes like composure and vision. Finally, it’s time for Fergie to make a decision on Foster. Either play him more or sell him and buy a keeper like Adler. EVDS has got to be replaced no later than the beginning of next season. He was a very good keeper but his age is showing. Is Foster the guy, or isn’t he? We need to know and that will only happen if Fergie throws him into the fire. Truthfully, Fergie has a few major decisions to make and I don’t envy him because whatever he does, somebody will find fault in it. Unless of course the team plays well and gets consistent. And why do we have to play Spurs now when they are world beaters? I do not relish that game in a week’s time.
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@Stephen: It is not disrespectful to say Neville is past it. Its just the cold hard facts of the game. Missing 15 months is hard for anyone especially someone who is 30+. Sentiment should not get you in the United starting 11. Lets all be honest here, If his name was Steve Adams and Not Neville and we never saw him play before this year, would he get a place on our team? Hell no! He just doesnt have the pace any more. I get annoyed when people claim disrespect for talking bad about an old player, its just the facts of life. Neville, scholes, and giggsy are all United legends, but sadly there best times have come and gone, and now they are holding back the development of the youngsters.
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I really really really want to see Foster out there tomorrow. But Fergie is going to play VDS…
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@RDJ: The tevster got a goal in the Carling Cup!!!
although it was a penalty, he was ecstatic 
… that’s what I love about the guy, he is just so enthusiastic and upbeat about success and football. Never has he scored and thereafter sulked or acted non-chalant, he is always excited. I love watching him and even if he might not be of the same or superior quality to our other strikers, he is just a joy to watch. 
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@johnsom33: I never said he wasn’t, and his name is Gary Neville and has been a loyal servant to our club, and feel he should be respected.
The development of youngsters, what Anderson? Nani? who have played not much better this season.
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@RDJ: Mass Effect was truly awesome and ground breaking stuff. I hear it has been optioned out as a movie as well. Great game and an excellent story line.
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@ Grognard – am totally with you re: Foster. Fergie seems to be putting off this decision, and that in itself worries me. I mean, he must get advice from the goalkeepign coaches as to if Foster is ready, and despite press comments it seems to me that Fergie isn’t convinced. I watched a few of Watford’s games and the man single handedly kept them alive for the majority of that season. He has great leap, strong hands and comes for balls, which is precisely what we need tomorrow.
But as I said, Fergie’ll bottle it.
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@Beachryan: Fergie is loyal to his older players, Giggs, Neville, Scholes and even VDS are his boys, so its understandable how he feels, and he is a very loyal guy, rightly or wrongly.
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@Grognard: Agree 100% mate
. It truly was groundbreaking stuff. The combat system was so refined that you would think that it is a third person shooter. I never heard that it has been optioned out for a movie. That was information to me. Well then, the movie has some high expectations to live up to.
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