Jun 25
Why Carlos Queiroz is More Important than Ronaldo
Carlos Queiroz has been linked with the Portugal job since Scolari quit, and for good reason too; he’s done a great job at United and won over a lot of fans with time. The man himself has been coy over his future refusing to speak anything, citing the now popular excuse with the Man United staff for just about anything: vacation.
To questions posed he had the following reply:
“It gives me great pleasure that my name is linked. Have I been asked? I will make no comment. I will not talk about this now as I am on holiday.”
Now whilst the Portugal job would be something that would tempt any Portuguese, I think losing Carlos would be much bigger than any loss at United in recent times — to me it certainly is bigger than losing Ronaldo.
Initially when he started out I wasn’t quite convinced about him. I still think he may be suspect as a man manager or motivator, but over the past three years, he has really grown in stature in the United dressing room and has been the one figure that has helped unite a lot of the foreign contingent; most notably, Ronaldo, Anderson, Nani and, to a certain extent, Tevez (due to his knowledge of Spanish).
If Ronaldo were to leave and so were Queiroz, one would wonder what would happen to the likes of Nani and Anderson who have always admitted looking up to the duo for guidance. Queiroz has also been the person most involved in the technical aspect of the team: the daily training routine, the tactics etc. Him leaving would leave a gaping void, whilst not being as big as the day Fergie leaves but a void, nonetheless.
Fergie is not as hands on and usually maintains a good distance from the players, but Queiroz is the father figure, the counsellor and the one players look to on a daily basis. So if he leaves, it would be a bad thing for United at the moment.
It’s also a tough thing for the club, because no one can assure him a spot as the next manager of United. And as long as the club doesn’t give him any assurances, it’s going to be a tough task trying to convince Queiroz to pass up on a golden opportunity to coach his country.
Meanwhile, in related news, Queiroz urges Ronaldo to stay, saying United is best suited to Ronaldo.
“Manchester United is very special,” Queiroz told the Portuguese radio station Renascenca. “Because of that we know how to surround Cristiano completely with all the affection and all the attention he deserves. However, not speaking is the most sensible course of action at this moment, so that we don’t contribute to a less than positive spectacle and so we don’t aid those whose interests are difficult to identify.”
However, all said and done, it’s the Portuguese gaffer that’s most important to United’s fortunes at the moment.
What do you think? Would he stay? How crucial a role do you think Carlos Queiroz plays for United — is he that important?
Related items from Red Rants:
- Fletch For Everton? Pako for a ‘Thrilled’ Queiroz?
- United Return to Action From Saturday As Queiroz Departs
- Who Should Be United’s Captain Next Season?
- Sir Alex Ferguson’s Successor
- Nani and Anderson – The Future Gets Brighter
Tags: Discussions
June 25th, 2008 at 10:16
RR, you are usually spot in but I can’t agree that CQ is more important than Ronaldo.
As much as he is now very umpopular with his actions over the summer he has scored 65 goals in two seasons which is amazing.
If you said Fergie is more important than Ronaldo I would agree. We can’t get too blinkered with regards to him personally because he has behaved like a prick this summer but he is the best player in the world and CQ is just an assisitant, all be it a very good one.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:23
Stephen
CQ is the glue that holds it together. The missing link between SAF and players. He has done a remarkable job and is integral to the United setup. I would really like to see him as our manager one day because I think he would be a great manager. Not as good as SAF but who knows? He is the one person who knows the exact working of the organisation called MUFC and would definately be a greater loss.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:52
Piper, I agree he is an excellent assistant but you can’t under play Fergie, what makes you think he will be a great manager in the future? His record at Madrid wasn’t great loosing his last 5 matches.
I think he is a brilliant assist, but really more important than Ronaldo, not for me.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:10
He wasn’t allowed to do what he wanted at Madrid. Plus he would also take forward what Sir Alex has set up. Continuity is all so important and underrated a feature. Im not underplaying Ronaldo’s importance. But CQ maybe able to keep the likes of Nani, Anderson and some others together. We dont want these guys to pack their bags and opt for Spain.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:11
stephen,you cant judge any manager on his madrid days.madrid manages itself and nomatter what people say,the board will not take the limelight away.cq asked for defenders and he was told madid doesnt buy defenders.his fault?no.
ronaldo will be missed but not as much as we imagine.he will miss us more than we will miss him.no one will give him the freedom he has at united
June 25th, 2008 at 11:18
My biggest concern about him suceeding SAF was highlighted by RR in his article.
“Fergie is not as hands on and usually maintains a good distance from the players, but Queiroz is the father figure, the counsellor and the one players look to on a daily basis.”
I have always thought it is hard to make that transition when remaining with the same group of players.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:19
So is CQ a yes man? Don’t get me wrong I loke the guy a lot, even when people were giving him stick about boring football ect.
But keeping the likes of Nani and Anderson, fuck me they should be proud to play for the club not the other way round.
I personally would not be 100% confident if he took over the club surely we could attract Lippi, Hiddink people with a proven track record.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:19
the one thing we should expect is how rooney will handle the burden.its obvious ronaldo saved us alot.now we shall need boys to be men.and though to me rooney has not yet shown world class status,we hope he steps up or questions will be asked as they have been last season.nani to me will prove very vital.
we need a playmaker after ronaldo and since there is none like him,may be an arshavinor van dar vart could change our game for the better
June 25th, 2008 at 11:57
Red Ranter: Off-topic (I will provide a relevant contribution to the discussion in a bit) but for the last few days, Red Rants has not been updating on my RSS feed in my Firefox Bookmarks Toolbar, which is how I primarily access the site; the topic has been stuck on ‘Should United bet on Ronaldinho?’ for the last three days. This is kind of irritating, because I have to click on the Ronaldinho article, then navigate to the home page before clicking on the latest article you have published to comment. When do you think this problem will be solved??
June 25th, 2008 at 12:09
@Nino
I access redrants in exactly the same way and my rss feed is updating as it should. Try right clicking on the feed icon then selecting “reload live bookmark” – that should work. If it doesn’t then maybe update to FF3 if you’re still using FF2.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:20
@reyals: Oh OK. Cheers for the info mate; I’m still using Firefox 2 thats why. I upgraded to Firefox 3, but it was very unstable and kept on crashing, so I reverted back to version 2.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:20
@Nino: I keep facing the similar issue. I use iGoogle as the RSS feeds reader, and it sometimes doesn’t update. Many a times, it actually shows a new post for sometime, and then it disappears for sometime before reappearing again! Same issue w.r.t feeds from other sites as well.
So, as far as Red Rants i concerned, best is to check the site at around 10.00 am GMT as I think usually this is the time new posts are posted.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:52
Continuity is the key. In the days when Liverpool where ruling the domestic and european leagues, it was the continuity of bringing through managers that allowed them to achieve that success. They wouldnt get rid of a manager and look to get some unfamiliar guy in with “a proven track record”.
If you look at the two most successful teams in the top flight,us and Arsenal, its continuity that stands out as one of the reasons for success. If SAF is prepared to say that CQ is good enough to be the next manager then I think we should trust his judgement.
June 25th, 2008 at 13:03
Like Roy Evans? so you would prefer CQ, Ok I sort of understand the Real Madrid situation but he lost his last 5 games and finished 4th, to a manager who has won their domestic league, champions leage or the world cup?
Our success is soley not down to CQ, I do love the guy don’t get me wrong but being a great number 2 does not make him a great manager.
Also Fergie has only stated that he is in pole position for the job, and obviously he does not want loose him. He won’t say he won’t get the job would he?
June 25th, 2008 at 13:23
@Stephen: yes being a great number 2 does not make him a great manager, but he is learning from the best and the best thinks CQ has what it takes.
Im just saying that I think it is strange how we as fans acknowledge SAF’s managerial skills as being the best in the world, but yet don’t accept it when he tells us who he thinks should succeed him. Its like saying to him…”yes yes we think you are a fantastic manager and infinately more knowledgable than us, but we know better about this one thanks!”
June 25th, 2008 at 13:25
I do believe that CQ has contibuted positively since returning from Madrid, and that tactics and certain players would be affected negatively if he would take up the position as Portugal manager. But do we see CQ as the perfect successor for SAF? Maybe with CQ leaving, that would open up the possibility of bringing in a more suited successor as assistant manager? Who that should be, I am not sure of. Of the possible candidates that spring to mind, certainly Sparky has ruled himself out of such a path with taking up the position at Citeh. But what about another United legend, Steve Bruce? With a possibility of succeding SAF in a couple of years, would he sacrify his managerjob at Wigan for an assistant manager job under SAFs guidance? Surely he would not have the same relationship with the portugese- and spanishspeaking players, but in the long run SAF may have teached his understudy to lead the club to new hights. Other candidates in the same mold, could also be considered… Just a thought.
June 25th, 2008 at 13:39
Christ, I’m wondering what United has to do for some players out there to actually want to come to Old Trafford. Apparantly winning the EPL and Champions League isn’t enough. Perhaps what Manchester needs to do is follow the Japanese example and build the weather like they do with their artificial ski slopes, but in our case make an artificial beach. Maybe a huge dome with great big lights, this should go over well with the South American croud.
June 25th, 2008 at 13:42
See the rumour is a bid of £68m. Push em for £70m and close it down. Then, and this is the important bit, don’t make the official figure known. Leak reports to all media outlets with different amounts. Then, do a press release along the lines of “We at Manchester United appreciate the years CR has given us, and respect his dream to play in Madrid. Therefore we have allowed him to go to Madrid for an amount that some would find quite low. The payments will also have to be made over several years due to Mardrid’s financial situation” and write into the contract with Madrid they can’t disclose the sum or any details of the deal.
This will fuel the media into believe CR threatened a transfer request, and forced us to sell him on the cheap, when in fact we’ll still have our nice little £70 sitting in the bank.
And the big point of all this is that other clubs (I’m looking at you Tottenham) won’t be able to hold us ransom for their players. If we widely announce to the world that we’ve got the largest ever transfer fee sitting in our pocket, prices will instantly double. I want a couple players, but not for ridiculous money.
June 25th, 2008 at 13:51
@Stephen: In terms of results ronaldo is the lightning goal-scoring machine whereas CQ helps Nani and co and handles the more technical aspects and translating SAF scottish-english. SAF also said that on the medical side of the club he as improved thing a lot. He definitely helped us get the Portuguese starlets too. What tips the balance, is that he is loyal.
According to him, he refused the Spurs job because he felt he owed something to United and SAF let him go for Real because it was good for him and the door was always open. We also lost the title in 04.
Bottom line, SAF and CQ would probably agree that it would be better for him to take the opportunity should it arrive. Thus he is important in the sense he works with passion and love for United and he IS more important and it will be harder to find a replacement.
June 25th, 2008 at 13:56
Ryan;
Excellent point mate. I think SAF, if he were to sell Ronnie would tie up a few transfers before letting him go. If we sell ronnie before buying, then we would have to pay ridiculous amounts because others will know we have the money and we are desperate for replacements.
June 25th, 2008 at 14:03
To: Beachryan.
Nice idea but it will never be kept quiet. Someone will give a wink (!) to the journalist which mentions the coreect figure.
I agree with RR that its better to buy now “while we have a limited transfer budget” than after the largest transfer in history has been completed.
Berba could score 30+ goals playing with the (too) unselfish Rooney and Tevez.
June 25th, 2008 at 14:15
I agree United forever, but we have (and I have) been heavily having a go @ Ronaldo for his conduct over the past month, but he has not said anything concete.
You say CQ is loyal, but he did leave us for Real originally, and he has been very coy about Portugal.
He said,
I’m not going to put myself on the market because the decision on the national coach should not be a result of those who make themselves candidates, but a decision that is conscious, rational and based on what the Federation judges is necessary for the team.
“I’m not going to tell you whether or not I’m contacted, that way I know for sure that it’ll be dealt with in due form and place.”
That is not saying to me that he is staying to me simular to Ronaldo.
June 25th, 2008 at 14:47
@DMC: We really have to get off this idea of signing Berba, he is not right for united. As I said yesterday, Robbie Keane scored the exact same amount of goals…are we condsidering him? no of course not. Berba would be much better suited to an italian team where he wouldnt be required to have a good work rate.
June 25th, 2008 at 15:01
jstar7, I do think though that Berbatov is a realistic signing, plus torres only scored 15 goals in the year that The Dippers signed him and 13 the season b4 and he got 33 for them last year.
23 goals last season is not bad cons, they gave up after winning the league cup.
June 25th, 2008 at 15:07
RR,Nice post mate.I totally agree that CQ is more important tha Judas Iscariot.It’s beeen elaborated already.He is closer to the players,has a great say in the tecnical sapetcs and as Fergie recently said,the medical side.Imagine CQ leaving?Players like Nani and Anderson will certainly be unsettled.I for one am an admirer of continuity and stability.Even in the midst of this Ronaldo hulla baloo,I spend time thinking posible replacements for Sir Alex Ferguson,and frankly i vote for CQ.Yes he went to Madrid,we lost the EPL title,He came back,and joined Fergie on the drawing booard.The result is a rejuvenated United squad ready to challenge on ALL fronts for years to come,even after Fergie retires.It is generally accepted that CQ played a very dominant role in the signings of Nani and Andy.He is too too important.
The prospect of coaching His beloved country will be extremely tempting,and some may even argue,too good to turn down.If He does choose Portugal,I for one will not feel an iota of grudge or accuse Him of betrayal.Unfortunately i can say so much for JuasIscariot.
Fergie at 66 must at least be endowed with all that wisdom that age brings.The Ronaldo issue and CQ dilemma,surely must have been settled in his mind,and in due cause,we the fans will know OUR future.At the close of the season,quite aware of the imminent sack of Avram Grant,the issue of His replacement at Chelski,and the conclusion of Scolari’s present contract at Portugal,all these couldnt have been lost on Fergie and Quieroz.Surely they must have considered a scenario where,Scolari is appointed Chelssi manager and Quieroz is approached for the consequent jog opening at Portugal.
All things will become clearer come June 30,when all parties involved notably Fergie and Gill return form their sun bathing.Let them have their vacation.I hope though,that Cq is given enough assurances of His future at United Post Fergie.
Trying to prevent myself form having panic streaks and being excessively parnoid,i recll that,after 3 titleless seasons,all it took Fergie was the signing of a certain Michael Carrick to win the EPL again.HE must know the answer to the Ronaldo question.I can bet my right nut(i love the left one too much)that if He does sell Ronaldo,then a perfect plan B is in place to ensure the team’s dominance
Mates,the Euros will soon be over,and then,We WILL hold Gill to he’s words.THINGS will happen.Trust Alex.
June 25th, 2008 at 15:48
is it me or is every man and his dog been having their say on ronaldo, what is so important about this guy, we have heard the bayern president, the idiot arbeloa have his say whats it got to do with him I do not know. zidane, figo, scolari, nani, the list goes on, who next tony blair and gordan brown, I bet nelson mandela will have his say on the matter, ronaldo is to balme but the media have given unlimited amount of bad press about united all summer, its like we won nohing at all, yet arsenal liverpool chelsea have gone under the rader who they won nothing. was our success a dream did we actually win the premiership and european cup because i feels like that.
June 25th, 2008 at 15:58
I feel that we are sitting on our laurels a bit just like the season when we won the treble.
We got coke head on a free and that was it. Arse have signed Nasri and Ramsey and seem very active. Chavski moved quickly for Bosingwa and also seem busy, we have not been linked to anyone seems odd, consdering the need for a striker is so important for so long.
I understand that the Euros are on but fuck me we must know who we want surely! and also a left back.
I am sure things will move after, but so will everyone else and the prices will get hiked no end. Arshavin Ravin, is 27 and people now think that he is the new Pele! he has had a good season I grant you, but 2 good games in the Euros and people are quoting £20m!! Seems we might end up with the Karel Poborsky situation if we are not careful
June 25th, 2008 at 16:04
TinManUnited
I was just about to say that. What do United have to do to attract the best players in the world?
We are Premier League Champions and Champions League Winners. What is the problem?
Is there some kind of thing going on that I don’t know about?
June 25th, 2008 at 16:38
Ben Arfa has joined Marsille for 11.8m, another pos target gone
June 25th, 2008 at 16:47
quieroz = jimmy murphy
fergie = busby
murphy and quieroz ran the team day by day, went one on one with the players, honed skills, etc. fergie and busby picked the team for saturday, told players the bad news and managed the club, dealing with the press and such.
ronaldo is a player. quieroz is our coach. lets not lose both.
June 25th, 2008 at 16:51
ben arfa was never a target!
i m not for signing any young players as ronaldo replacement. a guy at 20 yrs will come and get established in 2-3 seasons and then would like to move to thier dream clubs (madrid, barca or milan). lets not go after such players. better are guys like berba or van der vaart (guys in 25-27 yr age range). they have plenty of experience, ideal age, european pedigree and want to play for us (at least berba we know wants to play for us). lets go for them instead.
and lets not worry about nasri and ramsey at the moment. they are years away from becoming first team members (even at arsenal). nasri/ramsey wouldnt replace cesc in the mid and arsenal would surely buy a defensive mid to play with him. even if Helb leaves, i think they will sign some experienced player.
June 25th, 2008 at 16:54
Stephen don’t worry about Ben Arfa I don’t believe he was a true target and Lyon had to sell him he had a rift with Benzema and was unconcsistant. Lyon have more promising youngsters >tafer, lacazete and the brilliant Miralem Pjani?.
I’m glad we didn’t swap for Ben Arfa hope we stay away from Queresma and Ronaldinho as well
Quieroz has been magnificent and i for one would love him to stay on, not sure about him filling SAFs shoes but I’m not sure about anyone taking on that role. I hope Carlos stays however I won’t begrudge him taking the portuguese job!
Ronaldo U-turn?? I really think the management team can pull it off, this surgery business is better news to us than Real. I hope no one here has to bite there tongue if he stays he’s lost a lot of respect from the united fans.
June 25th, 2008 at 16:55
Queiroz has been key to our style of play and his importance is shown in the way Fergie speaks about him. If he does leave for the Portugal job it will be a big loss as I would prefer his presence in the United set up especially when Fergie retires as it will keep some stability.
The new site improvements are great. Keep up the good work
June 25th, 2008 at 16:56
(sigh)…once again, Berbatov is a bad idea.
June 25th, 2008 at 16:57
They would not pay that sort of money for Nasri if he doesn’t start, he has 12 caps for the French, and has played 121 times for Marsille.
I was saying he was posible target and for the money not bad value, he would be more of a target if Ronaldo left.
June 25th, 2008 at 17:03
Arshavin says he wants move to England or Spain and would like to play for Ferguson, Scholari or Wenger – I can see a transfer war breaking out. Interview link
June 25th, 2008 at 17:08
@rsg: are you kidding me? get a grip please. Ok Arshavin is a good player, he had a good 2 games in Euros. He has also come out and said that he wants to play in Spain, and it would be a “dream move” to play in the league he has followed all his life. Why in the hell would we try to sign someone who says that?? given what is going on with CR7?? no no no no no no no no no….
June 25th, 2008 at 17:22
On Berba he joins my list of ‘I dont care if fergie is a great man manager stay away from the following’> Berbatov, Queresma, Fabiano, Alves, Ronaldinho and the list goes on and on!
The only transfer targets realistic or not that I consider ‘good Utd signings’ >
Lahm-sign this player if a full back is needed
Huntelaar-great attitutude good record
Benzema-bit of an ego but he is that good (i know he’s staying at lyon but..)
Menez-if we can get him for under 10m he is ben arfa/nasri without the ego and price tags
Santa Cruz-okay no superstar but if Manucho is a flop this guy on the cheap can hit 10+ a season.
To be honest though the best news would be keeping Ronaldo and Quieroz, I believe Evra has signed a new contract right?
I don’t think anyone has mentioned Van Der Sars Euro performances I thought he was immense I had doubts on his Future at the start of last season maybe he has 2 years still at Old Trafford.
June 25th, 2008 at 17:24
Stephen; I think there are many wise people out there who rate Arshavin highly over more than two games. He has been a major world class talent now for going on three years but this year he has really elevated his presence not only with Russia but with his home club Zenit. Maybe some in the press are stupid to judge him on two games but the ones buying and selling players in Europe are much more aware of his talent and have many tapes of the player as well as scouts to confer with. Personally speaking, Arshavin is a genius and I base that on over a dozen games of watching him play for Russia and about ten games watching him play for Zenit. 20 games plus is a much more accurate barometer to judge a player over than just two games at the Euros. But what a two games at the Euros though!
June 25th, 2008 at 17:25
@jstar7: Arshavin is 27 years old wheras CR7 is 23. So the club that signs him will get the best years out of him at his peak. Wherever Arshavin ends up will likely be the last club he plays for.
June 25th, 2008 at 17:26
jstar 7, Completely agree with your views on Arshavin, the usual bollox after a couple of games in the Euros, as I said like Poborsky. Any news on Saha leaving?
June 25th, 2008 at 17:28
Arsharvin will join Barca i think, he keeps harping on about them despite what Mr Wenger thinks.
Someone tell Arbeloa he is insufficent and the Ronaldo/Utd/Real business has nothing to do with that liverpool reject!! -maybe everyone has to have there say!!
June 25th, 2008 at 17:33
Good to see Rooney smoking on holiday, true professional!!
June 25th, 2008 at 17:42
RR; Nice article and your argument is well made but I have to respectfully disagree. Only one person is more valuable than the best player in the world. Sir Alex Ferguson. Queiroz has his strengths and is a quality coach, mentor, friend, leader etc etc. What he is not is irreplaceable. In fact, I may go out on a limb and say his ties to Portuguese football may be leading us down a path from which only disaster can come from. If we lose Ronaldo, that will spark the eventual exodus of players like Nani, Anderson, The Brazilian twins and possibly even Tevez. Much like the fact that Latins like their poultry fresh, they like their managers or coaches Spanish or Portuguese speaking. They are just happier that way and less insecure. However, if the best player in the world says playing in Manchester is fantastic and I want to stay, then that would make many of them say, if it’s good enough for Ronaldo, then it’s good enough for me. I honestly feel that Nani and Anderson decided to sign for us because of Ronaldo and the prospects of playing with him as well as hanging out with him. Sure they like and respect Queiroz but he is very very replaceable. What, there aren’t any other Latin speaking coaches out there who are available and who speak English? And I also think too much credit is being given to Queiroz for the team’s tactical and technical changes. Trust me, Fergie isn’t a quint and he knew around 1999 what needed to be done to the team but he also knew that he need players who could play the new system and a coach who could translate it as well. Why? Because at his age he wanted to curtail the hours he spent teaching and training players on the practice pitch and in the classroom. He could sign the likes of an Ozzie Ardiles or Gus Poyet just like that and not skip a beat in training. If all that Queiroz is necessary for is translating ideas into Spanish or Portuguese and keeping a few player feeling all warm and cuddly, it’s a mighty price to pay in comparison to a player who has not only scored 65 goals in the last two years, but who has turned the pitch into a showcase of talent and skill that is not replaceable.
So the bottom line is this, Is Carlos Queiroz worth 80 million pounds?
I think not.
June 25th, 2008 at 17:55
On another note, I must say that I am overjoyed that my all time favorite footballer the great Karl-Heinz Rummenigge of Bayern Munich has come out and condemned Real Madrid for what he calls their aggressive and unethical pursuit and practices. I love it! It’s important for the brass of other big teams to come out in support of Manchester United and to help make the footballing community realize that what RM are doing is just disgusting and terrible for the future of football. This also should put an end to the pundits that claim United used the same kind of tactics to get Owen Hargreaves from Bayern. Obviously Bayern don’t agree and their professional relationship with us is still strong and cordial. Now if more big clubs especially Barcelona would come out and vilify Madrid for what they are doing, it may finally force the hand of FIFA and or EUFA to do something about their shady and unethical tactics. We can only hope. Some teams need to learn the meaning of NO, the player is not for sale at any price, and leave it at that.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:03
Stephen; You can not make that claim in post #41 to me. I have mentioned Arshavin months ago as well as Podolski. Like I said earlier, I base my feelings on player over many games, not two. So don’t generalize by lumping us all as bandwagon jumpers. Many of us here watch a lot of footy and have cable tv and satellite that allows us games from many leagues etc. At this time in my life as I await a back operation I have plenty of time to watch a lot of footy around Europe and South America. So stop lumping everybody in your preconceived notion that we all judge players on a few games in major competitions. It’s woefully unfair and incorrect.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:07
I was actually talking about the press in that post Grog
June 25th, 2008 at 18:15
Also mate not sure about Podolski, 10 goals in 40 games last season and 7 in 32 the season b4 not prolific.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:25
Let’s sign Jermaine Pennant lol.
Let’s sign Stewart Downing lol.
Let’s sign David Bentley lol.
Let’s sign Simon Davies lol.
Let’s sign Carlos Edwards lol.
I think 5 right wingers can replace Ronaldo to a sastifactory extent won’t it?
June 25th, 2008 at 18:29
Stephen; Fair enough and I wasn’t saying that you were pointing out me specifically. But there were a number of people on this blog that have indeed jumped on the bandwagon over the past two games when it comes to Arshavin. I just wanted you to make sure I was not included in that group. And the press are a bunch of ass clowns anyway. I have given up believing anything they say nor do I give a damn what they think of a given player.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:31
@GuineaDevil: Lets not! There all shite.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:32
Arshavin wants a Barca move….says he’s been a fan all his life. Dangit.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=551091&cc=5901
June 25th, 2008 at 18:32
Spot on Grog, I completely agree mate!!!!!
June 25th, 2008 at 18:35
RR; I was trying to make a typo correction in post 51 when this popped up in the new corrections menu. “You cannot edit a comment after other comments have been posted. – Close”. Not good I have to say. Not 5 seconds had passed and I wasn’t allowed to make the change. This tool needs to be fixed or modified in order to allow corrections to happen uninhibited by other posts and too little time.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:39
Brian; That doesn’t mean he will end up there. Barca hasn’t come out and said they want him and I feel Roman Abramovich may have a lot to say about where he goes. I want him badly for United but I don’t think we will get him nor do I think he is really on Fergie’s radar. Perhaps I’m wrong, but being proactive in this situation is important and instead, United’s brain trust is sunbathing on holidays. My feeling is you snooze, you lose.
June 25th, 2008 at 18:45
Stephen; Podolski was injured a lot last year but then again, there are very few strikers on the planet who could unseed either Toni or Klose. He did come on like gangbusters at the end of the season and in the UEFA Cup. Also, his international scoring stats are outstanding and one should never forget how brilliant he was playing as a lone striker for a relegation headed FC Cologne. He’s a quality player stuck in a bad situation. Not a fair indication of his true talent. And again, if you watch him play beyond a few tournaments you see what he is all about. He’s a very talented player who has great flexibility. Lets not forget he has 3 goals in the Euros by playing a LMF/LW position other than the striker position he is used to.
June 25th, 2008 at 19:33
so if he cant unseed klose or Toni than how can he unseed Tevez and Rooney???
BTW Luca Toni has been utter trash in this tournament!!! There goes his nomination into the last 3 of European player of the year!
June 25th, 2008 at 19:51
Jos; Sometimes you just have such an elementary way of looking at things. Why do you base things on a few games played in a tournament? Who gives a rats ass what he has or hasn’t done in a tournament. I base my judgments of Podolski over three years and over 100 games of viewing. Now doesn’t that make me more of an informed source on the player than you? Seriously, you put down a player and say he isn’t good because he is stuck behind two world class strikers. Toni lit up the Bundesliga and UEFA Cup this year and he has done so in Serie A too. Donadoni misused him playing up front all by himself and with very little quality service to count on. He was also woefully unlucky in the tournament. Did you watch any of his games or are you just prone to making your judgments based on what you read in the press? It is unbelievable to call a player utter trash when that simply isn’t the case certainly reduces your credibility and shows your complete unfairness on the subject in order to make your point stronger. I’m not trying to be rude or unfair to say your lack of evidence to defend your point of view makes your case incredibly weak. I’m just calling it as I see it, and unlike you, I’ve seen a lot of the named players to make my opinion a little more informed I think. You can call that elitist if you like, I call it informed
June 25th, 2008 at 20:13
Whoooooooop whooooooooooooop 1-0 turkey.
June 25th, 2008 at 20:17
grog
toni had so many chances that he should have been top scorer in the tournament!!! He couldnt convert even one of those infinite number of chances!!!
June 25th, 2008 at 20:20
1-1 Bastien Swine scores
June 25th, 2008 at 20:30
[Grognard]
I’m sure most of the commenters on this thread know your stand on your way of judging players. And they are saying it despite that. So they have a hunch or whatever it is. But no opinion is higher or lower here, as you would always say. So let’s cut the “I know better because I have seen him X times” part of it and instead just disagree. I am not intending to be rude here, but it saves you from repeating yourself about your having seen Huntelaar/Podolski/Gomes etc etc so many times.
Fact is you may be informed, but most commenters are aware of that fact and are saying so despite your being more informed. In conclusion, you may be hitting a brick wall in trying to make your point.
June 25th, 2008 at 20:32
@Just1n: I know. These pesky Germans know how to eke it out.
June 25th, 2008 at 20:41
RR; So let me get this right. I am not allowed to repeat myself about “I know better because I have seen him X times” yet those commenter’s you mention who know my stand on how I judge players are allowed to rubbish my judgments? Have got that right? Seems a little unfair and one sided I think. At least my case is a valid one based on experience and knowledge based on hours and hours of watching games. I’m sorry but I do not concur with you on this point and I believe if one can dish it out, they better be prepared for a battle and one where I outflank them with evidence and facts. Like I said earlier, I don’t care if that makes me elitist. I don’t apologize for my knowledge. Putting it bluntly, some bring a knife to a gunfight.
June 25th, 2008 at 20:45
RR; Also, it may be other who are coming up against a brick wall. Remember, I’m the one you call stubborn.
June 25th, 2008 at 20:50
Jos; First off Toni had a goal wrongfully disallowed. Secondly, numerous great saves were made as well as a few goal posts got in his way. But most of all, he received poor service due to the poor play of the Italian midfield and due to the tactical choices made by DUMadoni. For a better reference on Toni, why don’t you look at the close to 40 total goals he scored for Bayern this year, or the 30 goals he scored in the very difficult Serie A back in 2006? Why would you though? It would weaken your case. Again I emphasize that judging a player over a short period of time and under trying circumstances is not a fair gauge of that player’s skills. What part of that don’t you get?
June 25th, 2008 at 20:52
That first half for Germany was even worse than the Croatia game. No sense of urgency or desire and terrible marking especially on the flanks. They need to press more and their movement off the ball has been nonexistent. WAKE UP BOYS! They are lucky not to be down 3-1.
JUST TOTAL RUBBISH!
June 25th, 2008 at 21:00
@Grognard: Nope not at all. You are allowed to repeat yourself a million times if you have the energy. I think you know pretty much everyone knows your stand on them. So if they continue to say so, it will save your energy from repeating the same thing. I was suggesting energy saving tips, you know, with the global warming and all.
Just as I don’t get into arguments questioning my stand on Ronaldo anymore, because I’ve made them loud and clear and repeated them enough for me to bother making them again.
I drop in suggestions from time to time, that may help people from avoiding grief: not all of them are laws.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:03
And mate, evidence and facts are there, but often we all make opinions on gut feelings. We do a bit of both to suit our arguments. So leave the “my opinion is better than yours part” that’s all because that could later come back and bite you.
Opinions are opinions are opinions… they are like assholes, everyone has one. [I don't know who said this]
June 25th, 2008 at 21:05
bottomline is – he didnt score or create even 1 goal despite playing as lone striker and having all the goal traffic directed thru him!
The excuses you are giving for him also hold for the likes of Gomez, Benzema, Ronaldo, Klose, etc. All world class but poor Euro so far for them…
Anyway, I dont follow Bundesliga so cant comment on how good Klose or Toni have been there… but Toni was non-entity 2 years back. He is quite a late bloomer (like Guiza for example?)
June 25th, 2008 at 21:06
I don’t know about any of you but here in Canada we just lost the satellite feed for the game. Unfuckingbelievable!
I am also upset about the sure penalty not given from the blatant foul on Lahm in the box. The referee is letting the Turks get away with a lot of hacking and poor tackling.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:23
If Toni was English people would be calling him a cart horse! I think he is good but he is not that good. Bastien Sch is very good I~ must say.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:27
Look Stephen this is getting weak. Over 100 goals over the past 3 years tells me you are wrong. If he is a cart horse, then he is the Rolls Royce of cart horses OK!
To be honest I’m more pissed about once again losing the feed of the game just before Klose has scored the go ahead goal. Once again, UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! Modern technology in a second rate football country.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:30
@Grognard: It’s not a local problem apparently. Check out the commentary in the Guardian. the feeds up and down all over according to the commentator in the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/25/euro2008.germanyfootballteam
June 25th, 2008 at 21:32
@Grognard: If your broadcaster didn’t inform you the reason why your feed has been cut it is because of a weather storm which affected the whole world’s feed
Turkey just scored!!! come on you turks score again in the 92min
June 25th, 2008 at 21:36
Honestly lads we need to go out and buy renato augusto form flamengo to replace ronaldo this summer- hes immence.
…….Typical Germany- hate them
June 25th, 2008 at 21:37
Grog, I like him matey must say, bloody good game this!!
June 25th, 2008 at 21:40
@realred: Typical Germany – LOVE THEM!
June 25th, 2008 at 21:41
Bloody Germans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 25th, 2008 at 21:44
Apparently there was a power failure in the stadium that affected the feed and I guess there was a lightning strike…. What a game though… pity had to watch it in bits and parts… You need to credit Lahm for making that run in the first place and wat a finish from a full back.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:48
Doubt – Are Lahm and Hitzlsperger brothers??
There’s an uncanny similarity in their looks…and the 1-2 for the final goal was class.
June 25th, 2008 at 21:50
Grognard : Dude you Need to Chill Anyways Germany Won and Lahm was great today I have to Agree with
you on Toni and Arshavin Looks like a good footballer Maybe his Age ia a major factor but all in all
a good player ..
June 25th, 2008 at 21:50
Anyways The Germans Were lucky Today
June 25th, 2008 at 21:54
Lahm was poor today I thought, but he is atop player must say!
June 25th, 2008 at 22:01
RR; I have checked the Guardian too. It’s really unfortunate. What will somebody have to do to get the full version of this game for their dvd collection. This was disgraceful. They should have backup systems and extra generators in case of lightning strikes. I know this is what happens in the US for the NFL in big games.
WOW! Philip Lahm goes from semi-goat to hero in a matter of two minutes. He was undressed on the sidelines which led to the second Turkish goal but his offensive prowess, and overlapping ability really made up for it with a great winner. A wonderful 1,2 with Hitzlesperger and a fantastic finish for a fullback.
Germany were rubbish today and they still won. They truly are a relentless and difficult machine to beat because they don’t panic and they never get down on themselves. Credit to Turkey for showing a lot of heart and desire and taking advantage of Germany’s slow footed central defenders to cause the Germans one Hell of a scare. They play a little dirty for my liking but they get a grad “A” for passion and the willingness to attack. They never acted nor did they play like second best and for that they get my respect and admiration. Trust me, not easy coming from a Greek.
TurkishRed; My sympathies go out to you as your team has now been eliminated. Ironic that they lost by getting a dose of their own medicine. Germany does have a flair for late heroics historically and they showed tonight.
As for tomorrow, I predict Russia will defeat Spain 2-1 and then I am going to commit personal blasphemy and betrayal and pick Russia to beat Germany in the final by a shocking 3-1 score. There is no way this German team is going to beat that Russian juggernaut with the way Russia is playing and how fast they are with their fantastic 1.2 passing and strong finishing. Russia has players like Zhirkov and Semak who can exploit Germany wide and get around the defense and Arshavin will constantly rove around and make life miserable for the, Pavlyuchenko will be hard to contain but Russia’s speed will win this game. They will play just like Turkey except that they have just a bit more class and finish than the Turks and they are lethal when given a chance. THe secret for Germany is to contain Arshavin and Zhirkov. I cannot see Friedrich, a traditional CB playing R being able to contain Zhirkov on the left wing.
For Germany to win they have to contain the speed of Russia and they have to take advantage of the one major weakness in the Russian game, which is defending direct and indirect free kicks. They are weak in the air and in their box in general on indirect balls similar to the way Portugal got dismantled by the Germans. Schweinsteiger and Ballack will have to be world class + for them to win. I love my Germans but I just can’t see them beating Russia. So now that I say that watch, Spain will win tomorrow. Spain has speed and quality forwards too but they don’t nearly scare me as much. I also think they have gotten worse as the tournament has progressed. If they make it to the final, Germany will win 2-1.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:06
I hate the Germans, but fuck me you have to give them credit, never loose attitude is unbelieveable. England Should be ashamed of themselves, all on holiday and smoking (sorry cant get over that!!) you could argue England are a better side on paper but would loose 9 times out of 10 to the Germans. Why better attitude simple!
June 25th, 2008 at 22:15
No doubt about it Grognard, if I was into donkey racing I would hire you as a talent scout,
Toni, Gomes and Klose would be the first into the stables
June 25th, 2008 at 22:19
Q. What do you get when you see a rising star?
A. His agent starts babbling.
Proof: Arshavin’s agent begins the pimping. Prepare for an interesting summer
June 25th, 2008 at 22:20
Fair enough Stephen but lets not forget that over the years Germany hve had some very good world class players. Those goals don’t always go in just because of attitude. They still have skill on offense and defense to do what they have done historically. Lahm’s goal as well as Schweinsteiger sublime redirection shows just how skillful they are. Arguably the two Turk goals were gifts. Germany earned their three with class and finish. As well, Podolski and Hitlesperger were unlucky not to get a goal. Although Turkey were a little unlucky too I must say. At leas the match was a credit to the game and a goals scoring feast. ITALY, were you watching, you fucking tossers? Germany are in the final and Italy is home where they belong for lowering the tournament and playing like a bunch of cowards. Fortunately the teams left in the tournament are a credit to the game and will represent the game for all it’s greatness, not for it’s ugly side which of course has roots in Italy. To all Italians, the truth must hurt.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:22
Ah not you too Fred.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:26
Oh no I agree when England beat the Germans 5.1 which we never hear the end of, it was the Germans who reeached the final, that is a attitude, I mean a good work ethic. The Germans obviously have has some of the best players in the world in the past, but they still win.
It is not always about how good you are it is how much you want it.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:30
@Grognard: just kiddin mate, all three are decent players at club level but I think the euros have shown their limitations, good, but not good enough for United in my humble but always correct opinion mate.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:36
You are not gonna like this Grognard but, in a way, Germany’s never say die attitude reminds me of Chelsea.
June 25th, 2008 at 22:37
That was some game. I thought Turkey had done it again scoring in the 86th minute but Germany came out and did it. Podolski and Schweinsteiger had good games again but Turkey were very good in the first half.
@Grognard: Lehmann again looked quite suspect on the 2 goals but i suppose he will no doubt be picked for the final. I said last week that I would love a Russia and Germany final but I kinda want Spain to make it now. I think that the hype machine has built up Russia and I think that although they will be a lot better than the first group game they will just fall short
June 25th, 2008 at 22:38
RR, you are right mate or similar to us to a degree, never know when we are beaten!!
June 25th, 2008 at 22:41
@Red Ranter: not a bad call there, unspectularly effective , if that makes sense
June 25th, 2008 at 22:46
Thought Lahm was poor defending tonight, thats a few times now Ive seen him get tortured, against Zenit in the semi final of the eufa cup he got skinned
June 25th, 2008 at 23:32
I never quite understood why Lahm is always lauded as the best full back in the world. I’m pretty sure that honour should go to our own Patrice Evra, as not only can he attack (admittedly not anywhere near the same level as Lahm) but he can actually DEFEND too!
Tonight’s game just highlighted what a shambles the German defence is, and in particular, the number of times Lahm was skinned by Sabri and (to a lesser extent) Kazim was pretty embarassing. To his credit though, he did redeem himself with an awesome finish for a full back for the winning goal. I also think Mertesacker is just a plain average centre back whose distribution was extremely poor tonight; Metzelder is not as bad, but much better in my opinion. Neither have great pace too, so I would bet on the winner of Euro 2008 coming from the other semi-final, as either Spain or Russia will definitely expose the cracks in the German defence for sure and run riot.
The Deutsch once again fluke their way to a final (bar the Portugal game), just like in 2002, (you just have to admire their resilience to be honest!) but I really do fear for them when they come up against the likes of Torres, Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas and especially Arshavin; all of whom have the capability to slice and dice the Teutonic defence into Bratwurst.
I do remember backing a Germany-Spain final on here a short while ago, so I’ll stick with that original prediction, and I’ll also stick my head out and say that Spain will romp to a comfortable victory in the final. Heres to the Germans proving me wrong though!
June 25th, 2008 at 23:42
Let’s just be kind to Lahm and say that he’s best on the opposing team’s half.
I gotta say that these germans impress me. They’re just tactically so clever. They know, they don’t have the individual skills that other teams (Portugal, Spain) have, so they just pump players into the area when needed. Their first goal was a classic example. Great rund from Bastian S. That’s how wingers should always play… making those runs into the box.
Having said that, I really hope we don’t end up with any of these germans in United… just don’t think they have the individual qualities. Maybe Gomez, I can’t really comment on him since I think’ he’s had an extraordinary poor tournament.
Two terrible goalies though… both teams’ second goals were big goalie mistakes. And Lehman just don’t know positioning (anymore – don’t know if he’s ever known).
This match could have gone either way, but then again… most matches that Germany win can go either way.
Grognard – Referring to comment 46, I think you should stop lecturing people, when they make general comments that you feel struck by. This is not the only time, you have done this. Should people list every name they address every time? Even though you’re stubborn
, I think you should let somethings go.
June 25th, 2008 at 23:52
Grognard – btw, I realised today that yellow cards were removed before the semis (referring to our discussion the other day on the suspension rule), so they have actually thought about the “getting-the-big-players-in-the-final” bit.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:52
OUCH! Red Ranter, that hurt.
Actually you are correct there. They band together and have an us vs the world mentality and it works for them. I hate to say it but their playing style is somewhat similar in terms of pace and the reliance on set pieces, physical play and height. A very accurate and incredibly painful comparison. You owe me one RR. I’ll tell you though, if Schweinsteiger, Arshavin and Huntelaar end up in Chelsea, I’m not going to be a happy camper. My allegiance will always be with United but that team will have a lot of my faves on it. Up to now I was able to live with just Ballack on that team. I don’t know, It could get tough for me. 
June 26th, 2008 at 2:27
Liam; Honestly I don’t think Lehmann is to blame for either goal. The first goal was a semi deflection that loops over him and hits the post and then the goal scorer had an absolute sitter that Lehmann almost to his credit saved. You’d have to be Mario Gomez to miss that chance. The second he covered well as he protected the near post but Lahm let the first man get around him and then the little Semi (as I call him) just beat out a fast asleep Mertesacker to the near post. Again, I could see no other option for Lehmann. I actually think he has been solid all tournament but has been the victim of poor marking, funny ricochets, deflections and some bad luck.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:47
Nino; Yet again I will have to try to correct somebody because of their opinions of players they hardly see. Going in to today’s game Lahm had more than justified his reputation as the world’s best fullbavk. He has been outstanding. And even if he did have a poor defensive game today, he set up one goal and scored the winner with a piece of individual skill and striker-like finishing. He also deserved to get a penalty call in his favor early in the first half. Yes he made one bad pass in the first half and let a few crosses in and then got skinned badly for the second Turkish goal but his great moment still outshone his bad ones.
Not his best night for sure but then again, a night where he scored the goal of his career. Watching him game in and game out in the Bundesliga is a treat. Yes he had a poor second leg game against Zenit but in fairness, the whole Bayern team took the night off then.
Lahm is world class and an incredible threat from either side. Nothing against Evra except he can’t finish and he can’t cross worth a lick. Lahm can do both and he actually proved it tonight with a goal and an assist.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:07
@AGP: How can you put Quaresma in that category? I know a lot of you dont rate him but I have seen countless times and he is pure class. His situation at Barca was almost the exact opposite situation ronaldo had at united. They both showed flashes of brilliance followed by horrible plays. Fergie stood behind him, and let him become the player he is now. Rijkaard just killed his confidence. He has regained his swagger and i think Fergie could really push his game to another level, I dont know why people are so down on Quaresma.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:08
Tomas; If I honestly feel the comment is meant for me because of the wording of the comment or because I was the one voice on the other side, I will comment. Sorry if you disagree with it but I can’t alter my personality due to your objections. I didn’t throw insults or call anybody names. I just wanted to make it clear that I who have been a loud. long time and obvious Arshavin advocate was not lumped into a group of bandwagon jumpers. I get blamed for enough on this site. Forgive me then if I’m a bit oversensitive. And yes you are very correct. I’m a stubborn old grognard.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:17
Nino; Spain is overrated and they proved it against Greece and Italy. Germany just can’t get any respect. Don’t compare them to that uninspiring and boring bunch from 2002. This team has scored 10 goals in 5 games and 6 in knockout competition. How is that a fluke? Germany earned all three of their goals where Turkey’s goals for me were flukes. I agree about their defense. Mertesacker and Metzelder are quality league players but internationally they cannot easily cope with the pace. Their defense has been a mess and that is why Russia and only Russia will beat them. Spain is good but they already know who they are and a big choke is coming. I think it will be tomorrow. The problem with Spain is that their best midfielder is on the bench and that’s Fabregas. Iniesta has been horrible and Xavi has been average at best. It’s Arshavin, Zhirkov, Pavlyuchenko and others who scare me. I also think Russia in a knoickout game of do or die will have a superior edge in coaching. I really don’t rate that old goat Aragones very high and I think Hiddink will have some surprises for them.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:19
johnsom33; I don’t disagree with you but if he truly was at a higher level like you say, would he not win a spot as a starter for Portugal over that waste of space Subrosa Simao? I think Quaresma has a reputation of not showing up in big games or against big teams. That may be why not too many teams are mentioned when it comes to him. Just my take on the situation.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:26
Well I have some good news to report. Setanta is reporting that Manchester United is one of five teams to make a bid for Andrei Arshavin. See, I told you guys I had clout at OT. Fergie is damned well scared of pissing me off.
Also, reports are saying that Ronaldo has confirmed that he will report to United on time for pre-season training on July 12. WOW! That I must admit is a bit of a shocker. But what does it mean? He’s just coming to get his foot looked at or he wants to finally have it out with Fergie?
June 26th, 2008 at 3:48
Wow. New smilies eh Rants boy? Loverly.
Anyone believe we can eliminate a winger based style of play at United altogether if CR7 leaves this summer? How about the kind of game AC Milan play? No wings, no crossing, but three AM’s behind a striker. And both our forwards are incredibly short, so crosses aren’t much help anyway.
Whatsay?
Oh and Grog against fuck all was brilliant to watch. I just love this one man army from Canada/Greece. Tell me about that connction again sometime Grogger…
June 26th, 2008 at 5:30
@Grognard: Regarding Arshavin I wouldn’t get too excited already. There’s nothing concrete for us to assume that United is indeed interested. But assuming that five clubs are interested, and the fact that Arshavin mentioned in the interview to the BBC that he likes Fergie, Wenger and Scolari, and that he is a bloody good player — we ought to be interested. I am not denying that we aren’t interested in him, nor am I saying that we have lodged a bid. But the safe course is for us not to buy into reports until there is something concrete. Otherwise, it’ll hurt us real bad for getting carried away by a Setanta report sans any substantial quote to prove United are interested.
I’d love it if we sign him, but I’ll hold on to it just yet — because I don’t expect any activity until July 1st.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:46
im sorry grognard, but to be honest, germany where below poor, that couldnt handle the passing of a turkish reserve side, and it was the reserve side that should of won.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:55
Dan; I agree that the Germans played like rubbish. But that’s what’s great about them. They play a terrible game and still score 3 goals and win. The other thing is the never play two bad games in a row. They were slow and sluggish. Ballack needs to have a much better game in the final. I’d like to say I’m confident about the final but Rusia scares me to death with their passing and pace. Spain surprisingly doesn’t scare me. Germany has made a habit of taking care of all other giants except Italy and Brazil If they play Spain, they will win. Russia on the other hand is a bloody scary problem to solve. They need to attack them with hig balls into the box and not let them get wide on them defensively.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:59
Dan; Turkey shoulda, coulda and wouda but Germany dida. The final score is all that matters.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:22
For the sake and love of good football Spain should win the competion now. Frankly I am fed up with this tournament now and really don’t get a fuck who wins.
Once it is over we can concentrate on all things United and the world will be a better place!!!!!!!!!!
June 26th, 2008 at 11:35
@Grognard: Sorry but I disagree with you on this occasion. I know you are a passionate Germany fan from your rants and I appreciate that you are only ever going to say good things about your team and stick up for them. However, from a neutral perspective, I think Germany have been desperately unconvincing for the most part of the tournament, bar the Portugal game, and even you must admit they rode their luck at times last night. Turkey, with their depleted team, were looking very dangerous in the 1st half and should have put the game out of sight before half-time in my opinion, what with Kazim hitting the woodwork twice and Semih and Hamit forcing a couple of very good saves. So they can count themselves very fortunate to have overcome the Turks. Also Lehmann, throughout the tournament and especially in the Turkey game, was looking very shaky and that can hardly have inspired confidence in his defenders can it? That is why I say the Germans have fluked their way to a major final once again despite being decidedly average (granted they are not as bad as the 2002 cohort though!) and I stand by that statement.