Sep 01

Will Moyes hit the panic button after Anfield defeat?

Tag: Match Reports,Opinion Piece @ 9:13 pm

I have to say it was not my intention of writing a review of today’s match but seeing as Dan is on vacation, I guess it is important that somebody does fill in and offer a take on what happened, so here goes nothing.

Rodgers and Moyes Anfield Sept 13I have to start off by saying that things looked ominous and very suspect before the kickoff. The team selection for such an epic derby was nothing short of atrocious. Moyes is showing me nothing right now other than he is an unreasonable facsimile of Sir Alex Ferguson without the aura, intimidation factor and magic. A poor copy is still a copy and a copy is not the real thing.

United’s lineup was a glimpse down memory road and so reeked of yesteryear while being devoid of any tactical or technical genius that it caused me to yawn from the get go. Yet again we were forced to endure Ryan Giggs being played but this time, it was on the right side of midfield? WTF???? Adding Ashley Young seemed like the right move considering how poor Valencia was last Wednesday, but still, nobody on planet earth is going to sell me on the idea that Young or Valencia are better choices than Shinji Kagawa, Louis Nani or even Wilfried Zaha. We are so pedestrian and predictable it boggles the mind to actually offer any alternative to what has become a fat, bloated, predictable and very ordinary side. Where is the imagination and the cutting edge?

From the get go we were put in a pickle because within four minutes the seemingly unstoppable goal machine Daniel Sturridge was once again in the right place for Liverpool and we were down 0-1 before we even had a chance to get our first wind. These things happen, even the very best of teams occasionally concede an early goal, but this was different. Somehow in my mind and heart I just felt that from that point on we were doomed and never ever felt like we were a real threat to score and even the match.

Sturridge winner v Liverpool Sept 13That early goal was a dagger in our hearts and it seemed to shock us into submission. As usual, the culprit for allowing the goal was none other than our defensive albatross, Patrice Evra who up to that point, had been playing very well this season. His failure however cannot be fully placed at his feet. For some inexplicable reason, Evra had been given the responsibility to mark Liverpool’s in form striker, Sturridge. Again I have to utter WTF??????? In fairness to Evra, what in God’s name is a hobbit doing marking a striker on a corner kick? Why was not one of our CD’s responsible for Liverpool’s major goal scoring threat? That is for me a major tactical FUBAR and in a sport where one goal can make the difference, it is completely unforgivable.

United then missed great chances from RVP and Welbeck but then from that point on United seemed to have the majority of the ball but lacked any kind of composure or clinical finish. Particularly disappointing was the performance of talisman Robin van Persie. He seemed out of sorts all day and his lack of composure coupled with his fiery temper did not help matters much. It seemed to me at least that he was fighting the ball and himself and his frustration over the lack of proper service seemed to unsettle him. That also goes for the rest of the team who seemed to not have a clue of what to do with the ball in the attacking third. Defensively we weren’t bad. Other than the early goal by Sturridge, Liverpool never really created much but what they did do was seem in control of the match and never really felt threatened. In particular, I feel that Liverpool’s two central defenders Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger played very well and frustrated van Persie and others all day.

The less said about our midfield. They showed how inept and devoid they are of ideas. Add to that that our only bright hope in midfield, Michael Carrick today decided to take the afternoon off doesn’t help. Cleverley again was very disappointing as was Giggs, Jones and Young. Today our best midfielder was Anderson and he didn’t even play. That I believe says it all.

The rest of the first half and most of the second half seem to play right into the hands of Liverpool. Their compact if unspectacular midfield seemed in total control and our lads were seen making poor run after poor run with poor touches and careless passing culminating in nothing. Not until Valencia’s introduction after Phil Jones injured himself (yet again), did we show any kind of steam or energy. At that point Moyes switched to a 4-2-3-1 formation from that boring and very ineffective 4-4-2 he started with. Add to that the energy and fire of both Chicharito and Nani and we looked lively in the last fifteen minutes. Nothing much broke for us but we did have two great chances. Valencia’s rocket was stopped by Mignolet in the 78th minute and then unfortunately RVP capped off his poorest performance to date as a United player by being sent in beautifully by Chicharito in the final moments only to shoot wide.

And what of David Moyes? Well this is what he had to say after the match. “I thought we played very well. We gave away a bad goal in the opening few minutes but with the exception of that it was probably the best we’ve played this season.” Are you having a laugh at our expense Dave? Surely you must be kidding?

That was a pedestrian, unimaginative stinker of a performance. Moyes needs to wake the Hell up and assert himself and stop looking over his shoulder for Fergie’s approval.

It’s time to bench Giggs, get rid of some of the dead weight on this club and rebuild the club to your specifications Dave, Sir Alex’s. This club looks tired, bored and uninspired. It’s only the third match of the season and we have already given up five points to the leaders.

This club in this supporter’s opinion is just not good enough to mount a real charge for the title yet alone any other trophy. We are lacking in quality in midfield and our other players are not playing up to their capabilities. It’s time to shake things up and play some of the kids as well, do something already about Shinji Kagawa. He is too good to not be playing yet alone not even feature on the bench. And sorry but I do not buy the excuse of an injury. Without Rooney we are hopeless. Without at least two quality midfielders to partner Carrick we will struggle mightily to even finish in the top four.

This is the time of assertive action and stop living in denial. This club badly needs an injection of quality and a change in tactical approach. Panic? Why yes, I think it’s the right time to do so. You have a little over a day to make things right and to treat this club and the supporters with some respect and consideration for the loyalty and the money they place into the club’s coffers. It’s time for David Moyes and Edward Woodward to get their heads out of the sand and their asses in gear and make the proper moves that will prevent a disaster. Today was just a taste of things to come unless a wakeup call is sounded at Old Trafford

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Tags: Match Reports · Opinion Piece

No Responses to “Will Moyes hit the panic button after Anfield defeat?”

  • Great work Moyes !! You have stamped your authority. It is the third match of the season and already the champions of England are playing like Everton. Fantastic…..Bring it on Liverpool our aim this season is to finish above you.

    • @redmanc: Funny but a bit mean. Question: would Ferguson had done anything different from Moyes today? If not, is this “Evertonization” of United true or just a convenient outlet for our frustrations in the transfer market and with our shitty midfield?

      • I don’t like to be mean or derisory.

        It’s just frustration when our coach applauds this shitty unimaginative performance against our arch rivals. We were flat for the whole game and we did not seriously push for an equalizer anytime. SAF would have never accepted this effort let alone applaud the performance . This is a typical mid table team’s performance and a typical mid table team manager’s comments. This is acceptable at Everton but not at Man Utd. Moyes should wake up from his deep slumber and realize he is managing Man Utd and not Everton.

  • Well said mate! I think every supporter of this great club is thinking the same!

  • Grognard, I think you are harsh on Evra. It wasn’t like Sturridge did all the hard work on the goal. A flick on the back of his head from a strong Agger header. The culprit in my book was Rio on the corner for giving Agger too much space. Evra is usually on the post and Sturridge came from behind him to direct it in. Very lucky goal and almost off-side. Not Evra’s fault in my book. Also, Evra has a great leap and can challenge most short strikers on a corner. Harsh on Evra, my friend.

    • @Opti: Actually I’m n ot being hard on him at all mate. He blew the coverage but the man to blame is Moyes for the setup. Why was Evra covering Sturridge. A complete mismatch.

    • Agree with you Opti on this.

      Actually, the man to blame on that goal was Rio.

      His challenge on Agger for the downward header to Sturridge was not only slow and half-hearted, he led with his foot.

      A leaper like Agger needs someone who gets right up there with him and Rio who even at his prime was never a rough-and-tumble sort of guy, was way too lethargic.

      Perhaps its time for the Vidic-Jones partnership, which Moyes tried once earlier on, to make a comeback, especially once Raphael is back. Jones is an average-poor right fullback and defensive mid, but he does have the potential to be a good centre back.

      Maybe, even a great one.

      As for Evra, he is trying, not quite back up to his great high, but definitely better than last two seasons. Grog’s old beef with Evra is clouding his usual good judgement.

      • @Dr S: At the moment Sturridge scored, Rio was the man closest to him. But before the corner was taken, close up shots showed Sturridge running around looking for space and one man was given the task to shadow him, that was Pat Evra. Christ mate, go back and watch the game. There is no clouded judgement here. He blew his coverage and Rio was forced to react, albeit slowly to the open man. I have gone back and watched the whole sequence over and over again and I stand b what I said. You and others are judging the moment solely on the second that Sturridge made contact with the ball when the problem stems from well before the corner was taken. :roll: :roll:

  • According to BBC Sports:
    “Arsenal are in advanced talks to sign 24-year-old Real Madrid and Germany midfielder Mesut Ozil”

    — We have Kagawa so I don’t care, HOWEVER, I am mostly worried that City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Tottenham are all significantly improving their squads this year and we lose the benefit of Ferguson.

    Does Moyes have a term for “squeaky-bum time” b/c these next couple weeks will go a long way to determine how much they have caught up (conversely, how far we have fallen).

    Better fooking improve our midfield or Man City will be looking forward to OT. :evil: :evil:

    • tonymontanna4united

      @Opti: No reason why Ozil couldn’t be brought in to play alongside Kagawa, both are versatile and Ozil for me is probably in the top 15 best players around, so you can never say no to someone like that. Obviously never going to happen though.
      If he really does go to Arsenal though I think I’ll literally cry as this transfer window has just been one massive bitch slap in the face after another. It just can’t get any more fucking depressing surely.
      I mean Ozil to fucking Arsenal, the one club I thought were atleast as incompetent and cheap skate as us and they might be spending £40m to get Ozil :roll: Fuck me.

  • Nice post there. I am not surprised by the outcome of the match as it was expected but the only thing that has surprised me is the comment made by Moyes. The comment really show he lack winning mentality. Imagine the likes of Henderson, Coutinho and co making it look like we were playing against Iniesta, Xavi and co. I know some fans will say it is just the start of an era at United but for God’s sake, we ain’t the only club that changed manager. Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Chelsea and Citeh all changed managers and they are doing fine. When the pre-season started, some fans were like it was just pre-season, bla bla bla. Now the season has started and I will want to hear what they have to say. Our midfield lack of depth was so obvious to the extent that Usain Bolt that is not a professional footballer had to tweet that we need creativity in our midfield.

    I AM NOT JUST HAPPY.

    • @bumdel: Agreed. I have said it many times before. A club with our winning tradition and pedigree not does rebuild, they retool. I think we have lost the toolbox in the process.

  • Harsh on Evra and on Valencia(who made a difference when he came on).

    Giggs and Young were the bad performers for me.Although Young tried a lot and kept pushing he just didn’t have that final edge

    Considering our lack of creativity against Chelsea I find it mind boggling that Nani,Valencia,Kagawa and Chcha were left on the bench!

    This season is going to be a long one if we don’t manage to sign a midfielder of two,Fergie really managed to patch up a whole lot with this team.

    Still,it’s not all doom and gloom.Last year we took the same amount of points in these fixtures.But Moyes has to start making better selections especially with our wingers who are source of creativity.And get Shinji in there please,jeeze

  • Reports this evening that we’ve been trying to sign Mesut Ozil, but have been rejected by the player in favour of Arsenal! Claims Arsenal have offered him €7m a year in wages, while United were only willing to pay him €5m a year. Outbid by Arsenal FFS. United’s diabolical transfer window hits a new low. :roll:

    • @The Truth: If true, that just points out even more how cheap and pathetic we have become when Wenger pays out more than us. JEEZ!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

    • @The Truth:
      7m per year = 130,000 / week?
      5m per year = 95, 000 / week
      ———————
      Ozil should easily warrant same wages as RvP (120,000/week, right)

      • @Opti: Well I’ve read that RVP is on a lot more than that, but if what I’ve read is true then the wages we’re unwilling to pay Ozil are roughly the same as what we currently pay Ashley Young! :-|

        It must be true what people say, that United are deliberately lowballing clubs and players to avoid having to spend any money. What a farce.

  • The trouble starts when your best players star looking at the teamsheet think arrgg.. No doubt the one that played did…

  • Nice post there. I am not surprised by the outcome of the match as it was expected but the only thing that has surprised me is the comment made by Moyes. The comment really show he lack winning mentality. Imagine the likes of Henderson, Coutinho and co making it look like we were playing against Iniesta, Xavi and co. I know some fans will say it is just the start of an era at United but for God’s sake, we ain’t the only club that changed manager. Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Chelsea and Citeh all changed managers and they are doing fine. When the pre-season started, some fans were like it was just pre-season, bla bla bla. Now the season has started and I will want to hear what they have to say. Our midfield lack of depth was so obvious to the extent that Usain Bolt that is not a professional footballer had to tweet that we need creativity in our midfield.
    If Moyes hits the panic button now, clubs will hold us to ransom as they know we are in dire need of midfielders by charging exhorbitant prices which leaves us in a situation where we will not buy any player.

    Ooopppssss!!!!!!!!!!
    I AM NOT JUST HAPPY.

  • If truth be told it was a poor game, Liverpool got the early goal they where looking for then sat back and soaked up the ‘non-existence’ attacks that Utd came at us with. The author is right you need some players but i do not think he is going to sign anyone of any importance. Don’t get me wrong when i say this, but if you look deep inside you will know it to be true. Utd’s time is done (well at least for the time being) i cant see them mounting a challenge this year, and if i am honest you will be extremely lucky to finish within the top 4. Lets look what we have here, Chelski – probably the best squad in the world at this moment in time, all they are missing is a top quality striker (my bet for 1st). Man City – A good squad with a winning mentality, just need more solidarity at the back (my bet for 2nd). Spurs – Agreed they have lost Bale but look at there team and tell me you wouldn’t want half of what they have? (my bet for 3rd). Liverpool – improved greatly since Jan this year, proving a hard team to beat with a youthful squad that is growing in confidence game by game (my bet for 4th). NOW Utd fan’s you have a choice (well not really, your manager does) but this is how i see it. You wont improve under DM, because he is a like a rabbit in the headlights or like a fat kid in a sweet shop that has all these good things in his hands and doesn’t know what to do with them, DM have NEVER won a game at Anfield in 13 attempts and from a LFC fan looking in this is only going to continue with DM at the helm, he is inapt with such a well formed team that is used to winning, he is trying to create defensive solidarity when it isn’t needed, just look at how Everton played for 10 years under him!…good luck gents…YNWA :wink:

    • City? A winning mentality? You? Finish above United? Do you want a bet on that?

    • tonymontanna4united

      @LFC_Steve: I agree with most of this, but Chelski with the best squad in the world? Really?
      Truth be told I don’t think any PL side is all that. City have spent lots but not bought anything that amazing, Arsenal are Arsenal and Chelski for me lack a top class CB and their midfield outside of Ramires isn’t much better than ours ffs.
      Take away Jose and Chelski aren’t much better than a QF side in the CL imo.
      If I were spurs, I’d be aiming high and targeting a real push for the league because honestly the top 4 sides look to be declining year on year and all seem to be lacking something that they once had, and sets aside good and top class teams.
      Aside from Spurs and City, all the top sides have had a noticeable decline since 2008, yourselves included.

      • @tonymontanna4united: Agree’d 100% with your comments completely. As you can appreciate i am a little bias towards my own, and i see a lot of positives from last year to this, we have a lot to look forward too. From me to you i wish you all the best this year i can see it being very close within the top 6

        • tonymontanna4united

          @LFC_Steve: That’s fair enough really mate, your certainly improving albeit I can’t see you doing any better than 6th myself, maybe challenging for 5th if Arsenal don’t bring in anyone of note.
          You’ve certainly bought well from January onwards. Countinho especially looks a fantastic little player, and the likes of Sturridge and now Sakho and Moses too look like excellent business for you.
          Wish we had some players coming in, god knows we need something :cry:

    • @LFC_Steve: Liverpool scored and then sat back like a sponge to soak up the water. Problem for United? There was no water to soak up as they never even showed up.

  • Bit of United transfer gossip courtesy of Twitter. Could be a WUM but it looks legit to me.

    https://twitter.com/dunnerpool/status/374259737468346368/photo/1

    Sayonara Shinji? :( Another Moyes masterstroke if true. :roll:

    Some are saying he could just be flying back to Japan for their international friendlies next week but I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.

    • tonymontanna4united

      href=”#comment-252551″>The Truth: “It just can’t get any more fucking depressing surely”- what I said literally 30 seconds ago.

      Oh yes tony, it get’s more depressing alright :( :cry:
      Really wouldn’t surprise me if this happened. What a fucking joke if this goes through. What next, fat boy clicks his fingers, demands an extra £100k a week to sign a new contract, so we transfer list RVP, De Gea and half the team? :roll:
      This club is run by fucking assholes. The cracks have been appearing slowly since Ronnie’s departure imo, but things are really starting to go to shit right now. Heads should fucking roll unless we pull something out of the bag tomorrow.

      • @tonymontanna4united: If we cash in on an incredible talent like Shinji just because Moyes doesn’t know how to use him I give up. It’s a crying shame. The lad was phenomenal at Dortmund when played in his best position. Then he came to United and his talents have been completely wasted. Some think he’s not up to speed with the English game but the truth is it’s us who are not up to his speed!

        It saddens me that United play such a rigid, primitive system. You could put Kagawa at any of the other top clubs and he’d flourish. Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea, City, they’d all know exactly how to get the best out of him. But not United, oh no. At United he’s shoved on the left wing and subbed after an hour because he’s barely had a touch of the ball, then dropped for the next game. FFS man.

        We had to go British didn’t we? Fucking British. Times have changed, football has evolved. We needed a manager like Klopp, as I’ve said all along. What did we get? The Everton manager. “Get it out wide and sling it in the mixer.” No use for a little genius like Kagawa.

        It wouldn’t matter if it was Ozil, Silva, Mata, Gotze or any other of those little maestros who operate between the lines. Any of them would suffer the same fate as Kagawa under Ferguson and now Moyes. Because what do these old school British managers value? Ashley Young. Antonio Valencia. “Get it out wide and whip it in. If we get lucky RVP might get his head on one of them. Boof! Goal.” LOL if only. They’re not even good wingers! Anyway, I’m ranting. We’ve already been left behind in Europe but now I fear it will happen in the league as well.

        What a stark contrast it was tuning into Arsenal-Spurs after that shitefest our team served up earlier. Two teams overflowing with tidy midfielders. We’ve got 1 who is any good. ONE! The most exciting young talents in our squad (Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Lingard) aren’t getting a look in. Poor little Fabio is rotting on the bench, because his Brazilian flair is no match for the British functionality of Phil Jones, a useless lump who offers nothing going forward.

        Honestly, if the Moyes era is going to be like what we witnessed today, then I think I’ll give football a miss for a while and come back when United appoint a progressive, cultured, tactically adept coach and not some backwards British luddite who values functionality over flair and industry over imagination. Rant over.

        • It would be a terrifying situation if you could have echoed my thoughts better than this. I was kinda relieved when Ferguson called it a day because I thought the only good to come out of this is the opportunity to play a more sophisticated brand of football with players like Kagawa and RvP. I was wrong

        • @The Truth: The sweetest rant I ever heard.

          Couldn’t agreed more on everything you said.

          Everything.

          Moyes has no clue how to use world class talent like that possessed by RVP, Kagawa, Zaha, Januzaj, Nani (Dortmund/Arsenal/Barca would turn Nani into a beast) and Lingard.

          Why oh why did we not get in Jürgen Klöpp.

          Or at least get Rene Muelensteen to hold the fort until Klöpp’s contract had expired at Dortmund.

    • @The Truth: He’s supposedly not healthy enough to play for us (Moyes’ words, not mine) but he can go and play for his country? Yet another lie concocted by Man Utd to hide their true intentions.

    • @The Truth: Fook Me. 8-O

      Did Moyes just lose my faith in United?????

      I wll wait until something is confirmed but this reeks of being cheap… something better be made public or I will lose it…

  • I also think giggs had a great run. Shinji for me is the best signing in a long time and should play in every game. Formation should be attacking that accommodates all our players. In the likes of valencia, nani, welbeck, rooney, hernandez, shinji and rvp. Moyes needs to wake up or we just won’t make the cut this season.

  • Kagawa is going to be sold to release funds for the signing of Fellaini and/or Baines. It is clear he is not in Moyes’ plans and he is going to be the sacrificial lamb to grant Rooney the guaranteed first team place he has been clamouring for.

    It was uninspired against Liverpool and Chelsea. But then again Ferguson often flopped the big games. The team selection was straight from the Ferguson copybook with the exception of the extaordinary decision to play Giggs on the wing rather than Valencia or Nani.

    I have no idea why Moyes thinks Giggs is still a winger or why he seems to be involved in every single game this season.

    His substitutions at least made a bit of sense. But Moyes is not Ferguson and needs to get things right from the first minute rather than relying on Fergie time to salvage games.

    My main gripe with Moyes is his incompetence in the transfer market. And that is a pretty black mark against him because Ferguson has left a fairly paltry inheritance.

  • “Panic” as a strategy doesn’t seem terribly promising to me…but our options are perishing few for reasons entirely of our own devising.

    Shit-poor, flaccid performance today: not that we didn’t see some of those in the Fergie twilight years too – this was, as many on RR have noted, a classic late-era Fergie selection – but perhaps most worryingly here, as also against Chelski on Monday, a notable lack of zest and fie in the collective belly. Again I recall something that Alan Hansen’s said consistently the last two seasons – that no other manager would have done as well with the collection of players United currently field (and conversely, that with City’s squad Fergie would stroll to the Prem by a country mile). There was no sense of a goal coming today or Monday, no turbo-charged last ten minutes as we’ve come to expect, nothing except mid-table huffing and puffing to zero effect.

    Are the players not putting it out there for DM? Don’t forget, these are players who’ve won domestic and in most cases European medals by the hatful – show us yours, Moyesy. Has he got what it takes to tame the egos in the dressing room? For sure not if he dutifully wheels out Giggs as a starter in games like this.

    A couple of weeks ago I posted comparing our midfield to an increasingly wheezy jalopy in dire need of servicing and spare parts, and got damned from some quarters for nay-saying. I take no pleasure in being proven right.

    As to transfers…the tabloids this morning announced that up to *five* midfielders were “targets” on DM’s “radar”. Without wanting to traduce this precision instrument, might one simply ask how any of this supposed business is to be done? Are these five players scattered across England (Fellaini), Spain (Herrera, Ozil), Italy(de Rossi) and Germany (Gundogan) a shopping list, or alternates? Whatever the case, given that we’ve seen just how long a big-money transfer can take to eventuate even when everyone accepts it’s going to happen and the player is keen, how are contracts/agreements/medicals to be conjured up out of nowhere in 24 hours? Don’t forget it’s no longer SAF making the call but David Who?

    If the sum total of our midfield transfer business is to acquire Fellaini and lose Kagawa (the bright spot in the Community Shield when he came on for 10 minutes, and since unseen in a United shirt), it will be a net loss.

    And last thought: It looks as if Ozil may be heading to Arsenal (who after all have a name manager, if not one recently overburdened with silverware). 3 summers ago Ozil moved to Real for around £13m. The same summer, United paid £9m. for…Bebe. About sums it up, doesn’t it chaps?

  • Sadly, Ive got to agree with everything this article says.

  • Id blame Ferdinand for their goal, not Evra.
    Evra was our MoM today. Him and De Gea were the only ones to come away with minimal criticism.
    Cleverly, Wellbeck, Giggs, Young, Valencia were woeful. Truly awful.
    Moyes problem is he seems to be suffering from a serious case of denial. This isn’t fergie’s team, this is David Moyes’ team and the sooner he realises that the sooner he can start picking his own team.
    Not sure if Kagawa is injured, haven’t heard anything to say he is, but there is simply no excuse for not using him. Unless of course he doesn’t know how to use him. Which is looking more and more like the truth.
    We weren’t missing a meathead in midfield with an aerial presence today, we were missing creativity. Midfield creativity, wing creativity, any creativity.
    I’m hoping Moyes comments about this being a good performance were meant for the media, not criticising players in public and all that. I hope he gave them a right bollocking at half time and after the match but something is telling me he didn’t.
    Am encouraged to hear Vidic saying “we must improve”.
    Moyes is the boss, he’s picking the team, the squad, setting the tactics, running the training. This is all on Moyes, not Fergie.

    I couldn’t decide who to be more pissed of at today. Moyes or the players. These players know how to win a game, they know how to move the ball. If you go side to side, you do it quickly, with purpose in order to pull the opposition out of position…today was about as pedestrian as ive ever seen. Predictable and easy to counter. Who decided to play like that? Moyes? Have the players forgotten how to play? Are we just lacking hunger?

    What I do know is that this type of football will probably not even get us into the Europa league. And god help us in the CL.

    • @BigRed: Look mate, take a look at the match video. Seconds before the corner kick Evra was on Sturridge like white on rice. He was following him everywhere and clutching his shirt. Then the corner kick happens and Evra all of a sudden lets him go and when he gets the scoring chance, Evra is nowhere near him. If he was Rio’s man, then why Evra and not Rio the man marking him and shadowing him before and during the kick? Other than situation Evra did play well. Like I said, he blew the assignment but the assignment should never have been his.

      • @Grognard: They never would have had the corner to score from if it wasn’t for that no-good sack of excrement Ashley Young deciding he’d try to dribble his way out of trouble on the edge of his own penalty area. Oh NOW you want to beat a man, Ashley? At the other end of the pitch he’d have turned on his heels and played it nice and safe. :roll: In fairness, there were similar moments from Vidic and Ferdinand of all people that almost played us into trouble, but Young is surely the most infuriating player on our books. He looked okay for a few games after he first arrived but he seems to have regressed badly. He offers absolutely nothing and if we sell one player tomorrow I hope it is him.

        • @The Truth: True but that’s beside the point. I am getting a lot of flak for my Evra comment and all I’m saying is video confirms what I am saying and as Rafa would say “that’s a fact”. But again I emphasize that despite that major gaff in marking, Evra did play well and he should never have been given the responsibility to mark Liverpool’s main striker. That'[s what Rio and Vidic are there for.

        • @The Truth: I wouldn’t blame Vidic or Ferdinand for our loss yesterday.

          I would blame Moyes absolutely and completely.

          We lost because we had no clue how to create chances up front. With players like Kagawa, Zaha and Nani in the squad Moyes chooses Giggs, Young and Valencia.

          Those three are a recipe for boredom. Not creative play.

      • @Grognard: Evra has been a liability for the last two seasons – this is not a revelation to most of us.
        But we can live with Evra, what we can’t live with is Carrick and Cleverly in midfield.

        • @Redrich: I can live with Carrick provided he is teamed up with a midfielder who is better than him. Cleverley should be sold to a minnow where he can play with no major pressure and unrealistic expectations. Since his injury setback he has lost his mojo and I’m not confident it will ever come back. And he can take Anderson with him.

      • At the end of the day, to single out any one player as a scape goat for today is a futile exercise.
        Evra had an ok game imo, De Gea did ok when he had to. Apart from that I think we were poor throughout the team.
        I know you’re not Evra’s biggest fan but there are other areas of the team that need addressing, not LB.
        Moyes has big problems, bigger problems than Evra.
        Ashley Young contributed as much towards their goal as anyone did. He is simply not good enough for United.
        Its frightening to think that some of our most average players are becoming the “stars” of the team…Cleverley, Wellbeck, Young etc., are no more than squad players but they appear to be first on the team sheet. Which is a massive concern. Not Evra, for me anyway.

        Redrich, I agree totally about Fellaini. He will degrade the idea of quality football even further. God I hope Everton resist. We do not need a walking elbow like Fellaini, we need creativity.

        • @BigRed: We need Fellaini to provide some muscle. Leiva took our midfield and beat it up singledhanedly today… Fellaini can stand his ground.

          Could we do a poll on Who Wants Fellaini for 25 million or less.

        • ..Opti..Winning the ball back with a midfield general is one thing, but keeping it is another matter. Fellaini won’t help with that, unless long ball is the chosen route. If we could keep the dam ball we wouldn’t need to be winning it back all the time. Moyes needs to work on keeping possession, how to play with the ball, not focusing on winning it back. I just don’t think Moyes has the skills to do that. He just wants to transform us into some god ugly, defensively minded bore fest, a la Everton. He doesn’t need to do that but he’s going to do it anyway. Football is about having and using the ball. If we could keep hold of it, the need for an overly physical MF turd like Fellaini is lessened somewhat.

        • @BigRed: Would you say Keano in his pomp and prime is similar to Fellaini [skill-wise, not leadership]? Is there still room for a Keano in today’s league? Maybe not…

        • @BigRed: OK, let me try this again. I mentioned that Evra unfairly was put in a position to fail on that play, and he did. That does not mean I make him a scapegoat. He played well and it’s not his fault he was told to mark a man taller than him and a striker, when he is a LB. So lets clear that misunderstanding right now. Everyone knows I am not his biggest fan but I also have said that this season he has played very well, with that one play as an exception. And unless we can get a Luke Shaw or a Coentrao, I see no reason to be shopping for Baines.

        • Opti…Keane was a dam site better footballer than Fellanin. Head and shoulders better. Yes, there is room for a Keano, but not a Fellaini.

          Grog..I don’t care about the blame game yesterday. We were shit in every department. You could blame Giggs, or Young, or Cleverley, take your pick from most of the team. Agree that Baines is not needed, but limited imagination Moyes will probably get him anyway because he is incapable of thinking outside the box. Think we can agree on that.
          I stand by assertion that we need to keep the ball better, not obsess about winning it back.

      • @Grognard: When video evidence isn’t enough, then stubborn denial will get you through I guess. :roll: :roll: :roll:

        • @Grognard: Why is it so important for you to attribute blame to one person in particular?
          Football is a team game, you win as a team and you lose as a team.
          We were bloody awful in all areas.
          Is that not enough?
          :roll:

  • For all you that wished for Fellaini, I fucking hope you enjoy his crude play and “elbow time”. He’s all we’re going to get and we’ll way over pay to get him.
    We passed up on Alcantara, Fabregas, Ozil, Banes, Ronaldo and Herrera to get him. My god he must be a fucking “messi” in disguise, or perhaps another George Best (that hair has to mean something).
    Shave his head and make him play out wide. A fitting epitaph for a moribund player that has nowhere to go but down.

    Simply idiotic tactics by United. If they don’t have the money to spend, why don’t they come out and say so??

    • @Redrich: Because the Truth is bad for investors?

      Who is Banes? Did you mean Bale?

      • @Opti: OK Bale is who I mean. Please excuse my elderly struggles.
        (Shhh, I’m gonna be 60 next month)

        • @Redrich: Well just in case the day passes and we aren’t aware of it Red, Happy Birthday mate. The big 60. I’m 54 and you are 60. That makes us the Scholes and Giggs of Red Rants. I can’t speak for you but at least I knew when to retire. To bad my opposite number Giggsy isn’t getting the hint.

    • @Redrich: They don’t come out and say so because they do have money. It’s just not being spent on the club. The brand and merchandising is all the Glazer’s are concerned with. They stole United so they could get an investment back for their thievery. They could care less if the club wins unless losing starts to hamper sales and branding starts to fall off. Then I would not expect them to invest to bring the club back up to snuff. Instead, that is when they will cut their losses and sell.

  • Crystal Palace are looking at us and saying “holy shit, we have a real chance in this league, this is not as challenging as we first thought. The Champions are acting like chumps and thats refreshing because we did that in the the Championship and somehow managed to get promoted”.
    I would imagine that was how Ferguson felt last season. “I have this very mediocre team, and wow, I won the league. I can’t believe it really, but whatever I did, it was good doings”.

    David Moyes needs to figure our what “the good doings” was. Only because, what ever magic Ferguson had, was the only reason why we were a competitive team, and because he will not survive the shit storm that will rain down on him if he allows us to slip any further.

    I did think that he would be allowed the luxury of a decent budget this offseason, but no, he will now be the brunt of our failures.
    He will be crucified and his head will be stuck on a stick and paraded by the next manager as to why we have fallen so far.
    Shame, really, ’cause he seems like a nice guy.

    Football manager of worth, or a Glazer patsy??

    • @Redrich: You are so right mate, the Glazers and co have set Moyes up for a fall. They know he’s an out-of-his-depth “yes man” who is used to working on a limited budget and won’t rock the boat. He has been completely undermined, handicapped and taken for a ride by this piece of work Ed Woodward, a man whose transfer dealings this summer smack of someone who is either ludicrously incompetent or is quite simply taking the piss.

      I feel sorry for Moyes really, he made a rod for his own back at the start of the summer when he went blabbing to the press about how the club have given him an unlimited budget and that he’s looking to bring in three or four new players. Now here we are with the window about to close and not a single signing has been made. On the contrary, Moyes claimed today “I’m more than happy with the players I’ve got.” Really? So what happened to those three or four signings you were hoping to make? I bet he’s fuming with Woodward. I bet he can’t believe the penny-pinching he’s encountered at United. Right now Bill Kenwright is looking like Sheikh Mansour to Moyesy.

      • @The Truth: I feel sorry for Moyes too. However, saying that, he has taken on a challenge and he will ultimately be responsible for his success or failure.
        Lets not deny the fact that he is being paid very good money to take this team to levels that are unimaginable. He is charged with leading Manchester United to glory and to make a good proportion of fans believe that their club is a guiding light and a beacon for their existence.
        No pressure, DM, but there are literally millions of folk leaning on every word and move you make. Trying to decide whether you are “Everton” or “United” quality.

        A clue for you Mr. Moyes, WINNING IS EVERYTHING, GOT IT????

      • @The Truth: Speaking of Moyes’ earnings… what are they?
        How much was Meulenstein on per week?
        How about Monkey Phelan?
        How about Steele?

        Now replaced with Everton+25% salaries, I bet you. Glazers laughing all the way to the Bank…

      • @The Truth: Moyes is a good manager. You have to be to keep a sad sack outfit like Everton floating above water for so long. But make no mistake about it, managing a super club with high expectations and a worldwide brand is no picnic and I feel he accepted a job where he was out of his depth.

        If I were to write a job description for Manchester United’s manager I would have the following requirements. I’ll place a “D” after each one that Moyes qualifies for. And I will place a “J” for everyone Juergen Klopp qualifies in just to compare.

        1. Experience managing in Premier League – D
        2. Successfully took his club to Championship – J
        3. Has won numerous trophies at highest level – J
        4. Has managed his team to Champions League Final – J
        5. Has developed numerous world class players – J
        6. Has reputation as a tactical genius – J
        7. Has reputation as a great man manager – D J
        8. Has shown ability to adapt and use modern tactics – J
        9. Has finished in top four in England –
        10. Is well respected in England – D J
        11. Is well respected outside of UK – J
        12. Is well known outside of UK – J
        13. Has shown innovative methods that have caught on – J
        14. Has a proven track record of success in Europe – J
        15. Has worked with many high priced superstars – J
        16. Is a self starter and self motivator – D J
        17. Is a company man who puts club above himself – D J
        18. Has a strong reputation for buying great players – J
        19. Has allure and pull to attract foreign stars – J
        20. Is egotistical and demands a lot from players –
        21. Respects authority and does not demand much – D
        22. Is not intimidated or scared of predecessor – J
        23. Has patience – D J
        24. Is very ambitious –
        25. Has a grand and ambitious plan for future – J
        26. Is willing to tidy up and clean around OT – D
        27. Makes a mean cup of coffee – D
        28. Has long term plans for Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes – D
        29. Recognizes world class talent when he sees it – J
        30. Is willing to lie and deceive the supporters – D
        31. Is a proven winner – J

        OK, 26-28 was just me having some fun but as you can see, Moyes does not fair well in my opinion. On the other hand Klopp scores incredibly well. Juergen Klopp, you’re hired. David Moyes, thanks for your application, we’ll be in touch. :-D

        • @Grognard: Jürgen Klöpp would have been a much better manager.

          Klöpp would have had the guts and the brains and the tactical know how to play Kagawa, Zaha and Nani in yesterdays game. Liverpool would have been a breeze for Klöpp. Liverpool should have been easy yesterday. But that team selection was just awful.

          Did anybody notice how Brendan Rogers had the guts to play youth?

          Coutinho: 21 years old.

          Sturridge: 24

          Henderson: 23

          Sterling: 19

          Is Sterling a better player than Januzaj? But at Liverpool Sterling can get to play against the likes of Manchester united. He is involved in as big a game as this one. Why can’t Moyes show the same type of guts?

          I don’t know what crime Zaha has commited to deserve this much bench time. He is not even getting the last 15min of games.

          Januzaj would also be very close to the first team under Jürgen Klöpp.

    • @Redrich: Reputation, man management, intimidation of his players, opponents and referees as well as his sheer presence mate. No secret there, but a combination of factors that made the man special.

  • Moyes,Moyes,Moyes.What is the point of starting Giggs on the right flank when u have Valencia,Nani and Zaha to work with?Why wasn’t Kagawa anywhere near the pitch?Liverpool Goal aside,where was the clinical fightback from United?I was told u were into pre-season drills to make ur players even fitter than they ever were.could have fooled me mate!before the transfer window shuts,United have to buy a new midfielder,Cleverley is not the answer.I’m done trying to justify his worth and trying to figure out what exactly it is that he does.he lacks big match temprement,plain and simple.save him for the Palaces,Cardiffs and Hulls of this world.our midfield was our biggest let down,which isn’t a new occurence.Liverpool didn’t have to do much to stop any form of attack from emanating from United because we could barely muster one to begin with.To say we were static is an understatement.When players like Lucas Leiva look good,u know u have little to offer.Quite frankly I’m not impressed with Liverpool.they seem to think they can reclaim their top spot but I saw many glaring holes in their team setup which will be exposed as the season progresses.As for United,this defeat is a wake up call.if we want to retain our title,we have to invest in quality and stop fielding mediocre players who have very little to offer other than filling the gaps.Chin up guys,we’ll bury them Scouser louts in the next installment of Good V Evil.Evil won this time round,Good always wins in the end.Glory,Glory Man United!

    • @Everton: There was njo clinical fight back because its David freakin Moyes!

      I said this in pre-season that this guy seems alergic to winning.

      But people on here told me that its just pre-season and its more about fitness anyways.

      My point back then was ‘you don’t wait until the season before you start getting into the groove of winning’

      Winning takes problem solving skills. If Moyes could not solve the difficulties presented by low level teams like the ones we faced on tour how on earth can he be expected to unravel the conundrum presented to us by Liverpool yesterday.

      Moyes isn’t interested in winning. He doesn’t have the killer instinct. Ferguson does. Moyes works hard and that, based on the evidence that I have seen so far, is about all he can do.

      Moyes is unimaginative and dull and boring. This could be a very tough season for us.

      Hey but lets look on the bright side. At least the lads got a good workout yesterday!

      • @The Philosopher.I think Moyes is trying to hard to be SAF.Yesterdays line-up says it all as well as the atrocious display we witnessed.Moyes seems to suffer from deer-caught-in-headlights syndrome as it stands.He has a lot of pressure on his nshoulders and doesnt seem to realise what is at vstake here.Sarcasm aside,he should play who and how he deems worthy without succumbing to the desire to be a carbon copy of SAF.Drop the Gigg’s and Cleverleys and do what u feel is best Moyes.I hate seeing United lose to any team,especially Liverpool, but il take it on the chin if you rectify the situation by bombing them out of the league cup and nailing them to the walls at the next league meeting.Time for some fresh ideas Uncle Dave.The knives are out my man.

        • @Everton: Agreed. A good manager will respond to a defeat like this.

          I hope this is the wake up call Moyes needs for him to realise and accept that he is not Ferguson.

          He needs to play his own game, his own way.

          He has never had such a good squad at his disposal before. I say he should have fun with it. Try out different things.

          But he needs to respond and blast Palace and Man City away. Otherwise I will be very worried about our future under Moyes.

  • David Moyes, have you got a clue? Its the third match into the season and after two massive games v Chelsea and liverpool, where’s kagawa and zaha? He has claimed this was the most attacking team he could pick and yet there was no discernable plan or strategy during the game. I’m all for giving the manager sometime and leeway (as Sir Alex would have it) but on this account, David Moyes is not up to the job! We’ll be extremely lucky just to make top four!!

    • @Disgusted: Its deeply puzzling my United loving friend.

      I want to give Moyes a chance but yesterday’s performance and team selection were so bizarre it calls a lot of things into question.

      Is Moyes up to the job?

      Why is he trying to be a Ferguson clone when he doesn’t have the Ferguson magic?

      Is he up to the tactical demands of playing at the very top?

      Whats good for Everton isn’t necessarily good for United.

      Does he even know how to use a player as gifted as Kagawa and RVP and Nani?

      Does this guy know how to handle real world class talent?

      I mean, he never has in his entire life worked with the pedigree he now has at his disposal at United.

      Is the United job one step too far for David Moyes?

      A monkey could have chosen a better line up than Giggs and Young.

      There are couple people on this website who could have made a better team selection than that and won. It feels so inexcusable.

      I think Moyes is already cracking under the pressure.

  • So Fellaini is coming! At least a welcome signing.
    Everton have agreed on a fee for McCarthy.

    Dont know about others but I think we played better against Liverpool this time than in last few years. If only RVP had better composure for some of the chances he had, we’d be singing a 2-1 victory.

  • On Moyes’ embarrassing post-match comments: if anything was needed to complete the afternoon’s abiding sense of a small man trying and conspicuously failing to fill giant’s shows this was it.

    Yes, SAF could be ludicrously one-eyed about his team’s performances. So can Wenger, Mourinho, any top manager. We expect it and their team expects it; the press oddly enough respect it – SAF’s periodic defences of the indefensible were met with knowing smiles, the great man up his old tricks etc. And if any hack was unwise enough to challenge it he knew he’d get the Look and probably be barred from the press room for a month.

    But You Have To Earn The Right To Be A Cyclops. And DM, frankly, hasn’t. So when he comes on like Fergie junior there’s no frisson of awe – just quizzical looks and an embarrassed shuffling of feet and clearing of throats.

    In fact I reckon after a performance like yesterday – at Anfield ffs!! – SAF would have let the world know what he thought. But then I don’t believe we would have dared play like that with SAF on the touchline anyway.

  • sat and watched Utd turn into the garbage i’ve been watching for 11 years at Goodison…
    dont worry though plan B arrives today!!
    PlanA- play not to lose rather than play to win
    PlanB-Lump the ball up to Fellaini.
    thats all folks!!
    3 draws for us blues but more football played in 3 matches than 11 years..patience at our end and all good things….
    as for you guys…you look fu*&ed to me.. shame always enjoyed watching utd play.. good expansive football and i go back to the 70’s and 80’s when the blues were right up there and played football

    • @mick: I’m starting to dream of the day Moyes gets the can.

      I’m not saying he must get the can because he needs at least two full season before one can make that judgement.

      But I am really starting to wish that I could fast forward to the day we could swap him with Jürgen Klöpp

  • I am still having trouble getting over the weekend loss! I think one can see the value of Fellaini as he adds some muscle to the utd midfield but it also reinforces the idea that Moyes favours brawn over brains (he’s great in the air and a menace in the box so lets hoist a few balls into the box?) which is a concern for the future prospects of Kagawa. SAF brought him in for the sole reason that he is a proven creative/attacking midfielder (gets in good scoring positions) and capable of playing in tight zones, usually between the opposing lines of midfield and defence, and that is precisely what’s needed to breakdown defences, particularly against european teams. Moyes disturbingly said that he ‘hopes’ to use kagawa and zaha in the coming weeks which in my mind suggests he hasn’t constructed a plan to deploy them. From what i saw of zaha in australia during their tour, he maybe raw but he is also fast and quick and looks capable of beating the man 1v1, something young (doing it in the wrong half of the pitch!) and nani both failed to do over the weekend. There’s no doubt in my mind that for us to be remotely successful domestically and in europe this season and beyond, we will need to be effective out wide (getting dangerous crosses in)and capable of creatively breaking teams down through the middle, none of which are evident thus far in the season. I share the concerns of others that Moyes maybe be exposed sooner rather later as a tactical lightweight devoid of progressive footballing ideas. It may be one thing making do with a limited budget at everton but quite another to manage a club that is expected to not just challenge for silverware but to win everything that is before it.

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