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Lucky United Kop for a Point

Well it wasn’t a classic that’s for sure. These days it has become apparent to me that waking up at 4:30 Pacific Standard Time to watch my beloved Manchester United is the action of stupid man not interested in his health and sleeping pattern. Frankly, the past few years has taught me to expect a Ferguson game plan and squad selection that would leave me cold and disappointed.

Yes we have injuries and yes the season is long but let me start off by saying that this was with no exception the least inspiring squad selection I have ever seen Ferguson produce for a major match against a top opponent. I mean REALLY? REALLY? What a joke a starting eleven this was considering what we had to work with despite our injuries.

I could care less for the excuses Fergie was going to use for his selections. Rooney hadn’t played for a week and neither did most of our squad who were on international duty. Tired or not, this away match comes up only once a season and it is for many of us the biggest match of the campaign. For me it is mandatory that you start the best eleven you have available to you.

Why would I sit Wayne Rooney and why would I sit Chicharito who seems to always grab important away goals against strong opponents? Above all, why would I sit Nani knowing that this season so far, he has been our best player? Then to add to the confusion of squad selection we add the fact that we went into this match with a 4-3-3 that basically conceded the midfield again to our opponent and the fact we were tied after 66 minutes was amazing to me. I just felt we were never in control of the match and that it was inevitable that Liverpool would finally take the lead. And take the lead they did.

The goal was a calamity of errors in setting up a wall and in maintaining one’s position in the wall. But even more frustrating for me was trying to figure out what Pat Evra was doing a full two yards left of the wall in a no man’s land seemingly useless and ineffective? Gerrard hit a low but well aimed shot but it was the kind of goal that should not have happened. The foul that brought it about was questionable as well but the fact is, no way should anybody ever score a goal like that against an elite team like United. As we like to say in my part of the world, it was bush league (ie; well below professional calibre).

After that we were frankly fortunate to get our goal considering we never had much of the ball over the whole match up to that point. But desperation forced our hand and for ten minutes we played our best football once Nani, Chicharito and Rooney were all brought on. Our desperation worked too as we managed to grab the equalizer thanks greatly to a nice corner from Nani, a beautiful flick on by Welbeck and a typical predatory poach from Chicharito. I love the ‘Little Pea’. He has weaknesses in his game but his enthusiasm, movement and instinct make him a true threat and you just had the feeling he was going to save us on this afternoon.

So all is well now that the game is 1-1 but that is when United just switched off and almost gave this game away not once, not twice, not three times but four times before the final whistle. Special thanks and praise must go to my man of the match David De Gea for saving our bacon on at least three occasions with outstanding reflex saves. You couldn’t blame him for the Gerrard goal but you certainly can praise him for the game savers he pulled off on Kuyt, Henderson and Suarez especially. And thank God Henderson’s header was high as well as I felt that should have been a certain goal thanks to a great delivery from Downing and some very questionable marking from Smalling. De Gea bailed us out many times in the game and he certainly now must be altering many people’s early impressions of his game and quality.

To say I was very disappointed by the way we played after we equalized would be a severe understatement. We were clearly out of gas and Liverpool found an extra gear, which made us look like so many of our victims during late moments in games at Old Trafford. It was a very uninspiring and very disconcerting performance to be sure. But as usual we seem to escape major controversy and finger pointing for our poor performances because we either find ways to win games like this against the run of play or at very worst, we steal a draw. And today my friends we definitely stole a draw at Anfield, which on paper makes the result look more than acceptable. The result covers up all the cracks we could see in our foundation with enough mortar as to avoid a bullet storm of questions that I do not feel Fergie has an answer to right now.

And what of Fergie? What did the Gaffer have to say about this great escape? As expected he was upset about the goal we gave up and even pointed a finger at Giggs as the main culprit responsible for the goal. When asked about the game Fergie had the following things to say to Sky Sports;

It was very difficult. The referee is under a lot of pressure and I’m not surprised they got the free-kick

It’s exactly the same as last year. The wide players left the wall and it was bad defensive play.”

I didn’t think they were really threatening until they scored the goal but then the game opened up and we took the chance. In the context of today the result is fair

Yes lets blame Giggs for a totally useless overall team performance. As much as he was to blame for the goal, he is not to blame for the other half dozen chances Liverpool squandered. I especially think back to the Downing cross that gave a poorly marked Kuyt a glorious chance to retake the lead while Evra the guilty man was caught ball watching and out of position to do anything about it. In fact Evra was a joke throughout and forces me again to ask the question why this man starts for Manchester United?

Fergie thought the result was fair and he had no negative thing to say about the referee because frankly there was nobody other than his own team and his own tactics and team selection that could be blamed for this lacklustre effort. One scoring chance in 90 minutes is not United football folks. I care not for the excuses and reasons for that but one chance just tells me that the tactics and squad selection left a lot to be desired indeed because the talent is there to be utilized properly. My question to Fergie is why he continues to fall into his opposite number’s trap and why he continues to bring our team down to the level of our opponents by continuously settling for the cowardly and overly cautious approach to away matches? I’m sick of it. Yes I’ll take the point especially when I know in my heart we deserved no points today against our bitterest rival.

Not starting a former Evertonian like Rooney who hates Liverpool and leaving out Nani and Chicharito in a must win game surely means we honestly can’t feel great about escaping with a draw? Fergie is one blessed amigo to be sure. Somebody up there likes him because he continues to get away with very questionable and unimpressive decision-making. Correct me if I am wrong but did Vidic not play for Serbia last week and actually miss a penalty before retiring from the national team? Why did he not start then? Where was Cleverley? And why would you not start both Nani and Young as opposed to the useless and invisible Park and counter attack a Liverpool team that is also very suspect in their back four like us? I am tired of this useless squad rotation and especially when you do not field your very best possible team for a match of this significance. Instead of maintaining our lead in the league we instead have now dropped to second as Manchester City comfortably won their game 4-1 to take sole position of the lead.

Yes it’s a long season and you are going to have your highs and lows but just giving away points before the kickoff is certainly not the United way either. As soon as I saw the starting line up I knew. Yes I knew we were in for a tough afternoon. Credit to De Gea for keeping us in a game that we had no business stealing any points from. So Fergie can fool himself and all of those who continue to wear blinkers and deny the reality of the situation.

This club has problems in the back four and has no midfield whatsoever to speak of. For three years now supporters like myself have written our feelings for why we need to buy players for our midfield and why I feel we should be pursuing a replacement for Evra at LB. And year after year passes and Fergie continues to get away with ignoring the obvious. Yes Cleverley’s early play helped a lot of us forget our midfield woes but his absence only solidified my initial feelings that we will continue to struggle as long as we have to count on the likes of Carrick, Giggs, Park and Fletcher in our midfield. Is Anderson and Cleverley the answer there? Seriously, I don’t think so but then again, neither was seen today in a game where their presence may have made more of a positive impression than what we were witness to. But then again what do I know as a supporter who lives thousands of miles away in a country that ranks 87th in world football?

It appears our quick start was nothing more than a mirage and that reality is kicking in right now and truthfully, we don’t look like that much of a threat. Yes we have injuries but most importantly, our confidence looks injured right now as our overly cautious manager has slowly but methodically drowned the mojo we started this season with by making awful squad selections and offering up tactics that destroys our attacking instincts and initiative. Fergie is back to his anti-football ways of last season and I for one am sick of it already.




  1. RedDevilEddy

    16 October 2011 at 19:38

    Grog, I really love your writing. I’ve read your pieces for years now, but having all this subjective negativity installed in the articles is really putting me off this site. It all just seems very knee-jerk, without trying to get into Fergie’s head. If there is one thing I know about writing proffesionally, it’s that you have to see a thing from both sides. Here I see only yours. I bet even a blind man could see what you just pointed out here, but you make it seem like you just got imasculated or somebody stole your lunch money. It’s just pure anger, and something that really makes me reconsider my injections on Red Rants. It’s just a pain reading, sorry. 😐

    • Moscow is my heaven

      16 October 2011 at 19:57

      Should he pretend that nothing went wrong yesterday, and that our poor performances stretching all the way from the Chelsea game did not happen?

      Grog is telling it like it is.

      • RedDevilEddy

        16 October 2011 at 20:16

        I’m not saying he should act like everything is rosy and that United are still playing like Galactic Champions or whatever, I’m just saying he should be giving an objective view on this all. That’s the point of having articles, writing what happened, then saying why he thinks it happened and how it could have been solved. Looking at a case from two angles is the sole reasons of having an article, if you only give your side of the story it’s just pure rambling! How about talking about why we went out to play this game, by actually using his magnificent brain to use his logic. And without ridiculing every potential opportunity because “we are shit”.

        Why didn’t Nani play? He had a niggling injury and shouldn’t be risked because we have two incredibly vital games coming up.
        Why didn’t Cleverley play? Because he was fucking injured.
        Why didn’t Rooney start? According to Grog “Rooney hadn’t played for a week” and therefore should have started. How about because his father is in jail? How about because his head isn’t in the right place? How about because footballers also are human, in a game where stamina, attitude and focus are what matters most we should start a player who is mentally unstable and is in great potential danger of getting sent off, leaving us play this game with 10 men and not being able to call on him for what IS actually our biggest game of the season against Manchester City next week, then the away trip to Everton!! 🙄 🙄 I can’t believe that you guys talk about this game as it’s the only thing that matters this season. The Premier League is a marathon, not a fucking sprint, and definately not just a 90 minute match. It’s more like 50-60 games a season, so how about looking at potential effects this game could have. I bet you all five hundred fucking million quid that had Rooney started, and then gotten sent off, you all would be saying “If Rooney wasn’t mentally ready for this game, then why the fuck did he play?!”

        Jesus Fucking Christ! 🙄 🙄

        • Quis

          17 October 2011 at 04:29

          I think that should be Jesus wept… I’m not really sure that Jesus actually did any fucking… except his “disciples” have done a fairly good job of fucking the rest up.
          And I applaud your description of the slanted subjective view portatyed by this article, however I’m not surprised as the level of “journalism” evident in most media is only slighly above the floaties in the cistern. 😉
          You did however point out the incredibly short-sighted view of most of the footy managers here… In addition I was surprised that Hernandez played considering her played in Mexico against Brazil mid week.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 10:44

          No Hernandez – no equalising goal.
          No NANI – no pinpointed execution of a corner perfectly landing on the head of Welbeck for the assisted goal.
          No Rooney – no salvation of the draw score we got, as Rooney stopped an otherwise certain goal for the scousers.

    • Grognard

      16 October 2011 at 23:57

      What a load of bullshit. Go back a month ago when my writing was being criticized for being too sweet and too positive that there were cries for the old Grognard to return. I mean really, I just can’t win with some of you guys. I’m too negative or I’m too positive. 🙄 🙄

      Bottom line Eddy is I write what I feel and I am too fucking smart too write kneejerk. I respond and write the way I feel about something with complete sincerity and honesty. If it’s not what you want to hear then I’m sorry but I do not write to conform to anyone’s predetermined requirements. I write from the heart and I am honest with my feelings. If you cannot appreciate or respect that then that’s your problem mate. Reading the tripe you offered up ye4sterday regarding the game made me want to barf because you are far too forgiving and far too easily conned by Fergie and your young studs that you cannot see what I, Craig and others see with wide open eyes. Yet I did not respond and criticize your statement because as much as I disagreed with it, I understood that it was your personal feelings and I was not going to be rude by calling your feelings knee jerk nor was I going to threaten leaving because it did not agree with my views of the game.

      I will not, I repeat, WILL NOT conform to your’s or anyone’s predetermined ideals or views on the game or team. Iwrite what I feel and what I think and that is an honest and true interpretation of my feelings. Like I said before, if you cannot respect, appreciate or like that, then it’s not problem. I don’t sell out or lo0se my dignity just because Eddy wants me to write the same thing he does. I don’t see things that way. I see Fergie as an old twat with insecurities and fear and that he is so scared of losing that he is often to timid to go out and win a road game. I may be wrong, but I don’t care, that’s how I feel and I can back it up with many examples from the past.

      Football, strategy and tactics are subjects that are very subjective and open to many interpretations and so why should I conform to others when I have my own opinions? To call them knee jerk when I take such time and effort to offer up threads for this blog is bloody well rude and insulting. I expected a lot more from you. To say I feel disappointed and a little betrayed after so many years of contributions is putting it mildly.

      • Quis

        17 October 2011 at 04:42

        You don’t have to conform, just present a balanced review. Going all postal on someone because they happen to disagree is not positive, it’s juvenile. You have your right to an opinion but clarify it as such, don’t present it as an indisputable fact.
        I don’t happen to agree with you but for this post that is not relevant to the conversation.

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:10

          Fine you disagree with me. Leave it at that. Don’t say I should change the way I write because the next game may be a 4-0 win and I will be all lights and glitter and full of positive feedback. I go as the team goes and I write honestly and from the heart. Sometimes that will disagree with your view and that’s fine, at least respect my view as I respect yours.

      • RedDevilEddy

        17 October 2011 at 07:53

        That’s just the point. You are not supposed to write “what you feel” when you are a representative for this blog. Do it as a comment, yes, but not as an article. It’s not just about rambling on about how you feel about the game, you are supposed to be objective and write intelligently. Here I read only your emotions. You are not supposed to write if what you want to do is let people into your heart. You get in their head. Write things, positive and negative, and give reasons for it. Even I know that! 🙄

        “I am too fucking smart too write kneejerk” 🙄 🙄 I suggest you read your pieces again, and then look up what knee jerk actually means…

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:12

          BULL FUCKING SHIT. I will not turn in to United Press International or any other wire service for you or any other conformist monkey out there. I write about United from my own perspective and my own heart and up to now very few people have had issue with that. I brought back some life and passion to this blog and all you want to do is pour bleach all over that. Christ, you’re a Judas.

      • RedDevilEddy

        17 October 2011 at 07:58

        Oh, and as you call it as you see it, I call it as I see it. When you write an article which looks like someone who watched the game without reading interviews by Fergie and the players, or read what ohers have said about the game, and then use it against them… It baffles me. You obviously haven’t paid attention these past few days to the surrounding of the game, but you still try to use it against Fergie? How is that supposed to be supported? You ask why Cleverley didn’t play when Fergie has come out and says he is still injured, and you ask why Rooney didn’t start when every fucking single newspaper out there have written that “Rooney didn’t play because he wasn’t mentally fit for this game”. 🙄 That’s poor journalism, and if you are trying to make this blog better and reach new heights you should try to improve your writing. It’s not only about positive or negative, it’s about being insightful, objective, and actually paying attention.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 10:36

          Who the fuck made you the blog HEADTEACHER eh? You need a bit more humility Eddi mi man, because it appears that since you started writing long epilogue comments you have pride coming out of every pore of your body. Not trying to deliberately hurt your feeling mate – but really? You think you have a right to talk down others – sorry but you don’t BRO! Leave Grog to his own opinions, if Rimmers doesn’t like what Grog says – he can say so, which he has done and in a FAR MORE GRACIOUS WAY than your comments right now Eddi. What’s up with you Bro – did someone put spite in your coffee or what?

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 12:35

          So you don’t see anything wrong with the way this article is written? Not that it’s critial, that is alright because of course there were many issues to bring forward from the game. But it lacks objectivity, knowledge about the surroundings, and it’s written in pure emotional anger. How is that acceptable?

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 14:18

          I didn’t see any anger Eddi – just Grog stating his opinion on what he felt were wrong tactics, team choice and decision making in a big game. He has written articles where HE MAJORED on objectivity and positivity alone, but I didn’t see you coming up with all your dialogue about why all was just positive and their was no negativity to be seen. In other words its OK if all articles are flowery and glowing, full of the objectivity you desire so much, but to speak of big concerns he personally has are not acceptable – total BOLONEY tripe mate 😀 . You should know how much I am controlling the language I would normally be using right now – f’ing and blinding etc, 1stly because my missus has the swear box ready at hand, and 2ndly because you are a mate whom I do not want to swear at over these issues! 👿

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:15

          What a load of bollocks as I am the one who offered quotes from Fergie. I just don’t agree with him and I do not like the way he prepared the team for this match. It’s my fucking god damned right to feel that way and to honestly express my disgust with the performance. The fact you want to do nothing but kiss his ass is your prerogative, I don’t share it.

  2. Bahama

    16 October 2011 at 19:55

    Sack Fergie. Sell Giggs

  3. RedDevilEddy

    16 October 2011 at 20:37

    I’m totally baffled by some things I’ve read about United the past few weeks. Not talking about this site only, but in general the behaviour from United fans has made no sense to me. “He’s shit”, “he’s shit”, and “why the fuck didn’t we buy him??” are some of the things that really go around. How about people asking themselves “Why do I think he is shit?”, or “why does he perform this bad?”

    “Fletcher is shit!” – How about that one folks? Darren Fletcher, the man who people say is the sole reason for us not winning the 2009 Champions League final, is shit. Yes, he’s been playing badly this season, but how about trying to find out why exactly? What is the difference between Fletcher now, and the Fletcher of 2009? Is it his illness? No, it started long before that. Is it because he has lost focus? No, he still works just as hard as back then. But what is it then? Well, here is it. Back in 2009 we were “Ronaldo FC”. It’s a common expression used by ABU’s. but fact is Ronny was the catalyst in the team. Players like Rooney, Park, Fletcher, Evra, O’shea and especially Tevez were some of our best players when Ronny played here. But why is that? Because they had a greay duty which was work. Work, work, work. Rooney has come out and said it himself, that “United are more of a team after Ronaldo left”. Our players won the ball back, fought for it with their every life, and then got the ball to Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani etc. Because Ronaldo took on two or three opposition players to mark him, other players got more space. And with Fletcher being so deadly in arriving late in the box, there was no-one to track him as the focus was on Ronaldo and Rooney. The “workhorse” type of player were our best those days, and although Tevez’ attitude really failed him during the 2008/09 campaign you can’t fault his work rate for this team.

    These days we play a more “pass and move” type of game than we did back then. In 2008 it was, win the ball back, and play it to those guys. With the pace we had going forward, Fletcher’s job was really simple. Win the ball back, play a short pass, and let the team counter. When we dominate, try to arrive late in the box unnoticed. These days his biggest issue is losing the ball when he wins it back. He still fights and wins most duels, but he just doesn’t seem to have the mental pace to follow what happens. We press as a team, meaning that when we win the ball back players are all over the pitch ready for the ball, and leaving everyone attacking at will. Suddenly Rooney is left back, Nani is the central striker, Welbeck is the midfielder, Young is the striker, Evra is the left winger, etc.etc. Fletcher just doesn’t have that ability, and it’s these tactics that make Anderson and Cleverley so important to this team. They win the ball, and have the vision and awareness to play it right and quickly. Carrick doesn’t have that work-rate that this team needs all over the pitch this season, as he is more of teh positional-blocking type of player. And because we have went from that kind of defending/attacking to pure domination and hard pressing all over the pitch, he, and Berba, doesn’t fit in. As soon as Fletcher can adabt his “brain” and improve his vision, playing the ball accurately and quickly after winning it, he will be a good player for this team again.

    I can go on and on about why players like Valencia, Rio, and Chicharito have dropped their performing levels this season, and why people like Evans and Cleverley have improved so much. Tactics, mentality, and their skillset just fit really well into this team. But I won’t bother, as I know a lot of people will ignore it and just go on rambling about how he is shit and he is shit, without actually making the least of effort to try to find out WHY! 🙄

    • gator

      16 October 2011 at 21:05

      dig the analysis.

      is just want my midfield back… 🙁 cleverly and ando were so much fun to watch. hope when he gets back he hasnt lost any ability or pace and enthusiasm.

    • Craig Mc

      16 October 2011 at 21:59

      Eddi – ot seems like you are the one who is angry mate, and probably feeling like we should all take the same position as you because you are personally writing more than you ever did. Yet this board is so good because we have ALWAYS had very differing and decided opinions on how we see all things Man United, and we all are matter of fact about how we see things. As for you not wanting to contribute anymore to this blog – mate you will be very much missed especially by me and a good few of us who love you on here, but to be honest you spend more time on twitter now don’t you – or am I wrong about that? A healthy blog is where the bloggers have very differing opinions and the right to voice them whether we personally agree with them or not. This site was called red RANTS for that very reason – RANTING. My GOD this will become identical to every other Man Utd blog where we all just tread the party line – I think not mate, I think not. 😀

      • Ian

        16 October 2011 at 22:09

        I think that’s a fair point Craig. Eddy won’t go, he loves it too much to go.
        I just get the feeling that’s this time Grog’s got it wrong, yes the blog’s great for actually trying not to just ‘tread the party line’ and long may that continue, but if that’s how it’s going to be then it has to be prepared to get it wrong now and then, has to be prepared to have a thick skin.

        Yesterday’s point could prove to be a very good one the longer the season goes on…….and it’s helped develop the players to playing a system that might just come right in handy in the latter stages of the ECL next year 😀

        • Craig Mc

          16 October 2011 at 22:28

          Rimmers – my personal take on it is that Fergie got it wrong AGAIN – soz Bro! Liverpool were there for the taking yesterday – I truly believe that. My arguement is that IF every commentator on most sports channels could see that Man Utd were in to ‘Park the Bus’ – something Fergie says he hates, and yet had excellent GAME WINNERS on the bench and didn’t employ them sooner – so that we could get the win we needed to stay top of the league, then if as you say and Fergie says we were holding L’Pool admirably, then why not send on the troops and go for the JUGULAR of the scouse GITS? He should have brought our bench players on sooner Bro, and not given those SHITS across the City the opportunity to edge in front of us, and then shout to all who will listen that they will take the game to ALL the top teams, and Man Utd can expect a fierce fight now City have edged ahead, their words NOT mine! I hate giving those fookers any sort of edge over us, and especially when we proved when Fergie moved his arse and sent the troops on, that we could have DONE them if the subs had been sent on sooner – no excuses for it mate – we had the beating of them, but Fergie let us down with that team. Start with the team he did yes ok, but we should have brought our other strikers on as soon as he saw that our defence was not doing a bad job at all. If that is seen as being NEGATIVE by me, then it isn’t as negative as what Fergie did yesterday.

        • Ian

          16 October 2011 at 22:59

          He was about to bring them on…..the game was going to plan…..then the mistake.

          It happens.

          If they were there for the taking yesterday then I presume they were definitely there for the taking in 2010, 2009 and 2008 when we got beat each time?

          Look, if he goes to Carrow Road and plays that team and that system then cool…..have as big a moan as you want……but this was Anfield, and ‘ready for the taking’ or not……it’s a different kettle of fish to anyone else going there….it’s a point more than we got in the last 3 seasons……and remind me how many titles we won in those 3 seasons?…..right, so chill out.

        • RedDevilEddy

          16 October 2011 at 23:15

          We were outrun in all those games. Berba, Carrick and Scholes have started at least 2 of the last three losses there, and none of them are really hard workers. We become very lax and chill, and our pressing loses intensity with them in our lineup. And intensity is what we needed! Our midfield was set up with warriors, Jones, Fletcher, Park and Young being some of the hardest workers this team currently has. I felt it was a tactical masterplan by Fergie, at least defensivly. Rio is the only exception, given reason for that in my respons to Fuck u, but we don’t really have any other option at the moment? With no defenders on the bench we kinda had to start Rio, unfortunately.

          Offensivly we got a couple of chances with Evra and Young, but our adversity really suffered by Giggsy. He was supposed to be the link between midfield and attack, but he didn’t find Welbeck as often as he should, which led to us becoming predictable. I think Fergie wanted to expose the static and slow Liverpool defence by using Welbeck’s pace and Giggsy’s pin-point passes which has led to 4 assists and 2 goals in only a few games this season. Giggsy dissapeared at Welbeck dropped to deep, leaving us without a striker. So I don’t really think Fergie went there to “park the bus”. Liverpool were just as defensive. We played 4-4-1-1, they played 4-4-1-1. Jones and Lucas had the similar role, same goes with Giggsy and Gerrard, and Adam and Fletch. Kuyt is their Park, and Downing is their Young. The main difference here was not in defence, or the midfield battle as we equalled eachother out really well, but where Giggsy couldn’t find Welbeck leading him to drop deep, Gerrard found Suarez who could roam around our 18-yard box instead of just above their midfield.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 00:17

          Eddi I watched the game thru again twice, and your friend Welbeck had 3 very excellent opportunities to SHOOT on goal when he was thru and unchallenged – but each time he WIMPED out and instead of taking a shot he passed to someone in not so good position as he had to shoot. Welbeck will not shoot when he is playing away from OT – ask yourself why? To me he is a scaredy cat! When your the only striker and you get chances and he did – you fookin SHOOT, not wimp out! Doesn’t matter if you don’t score, but you sure as feck won’t ever score away from home if you don’t shoot – Welbeck is in that category where he takes pot shots at home but is wimpy away – soz but that is what I truly believe. Chicharito is not much older than Welbeck – but he shoots every opportunity he has and wouldn’t dream of passing when he has the shot – that I admire,

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 08:01

          Welbeck is not Ruud or Rooney mate, he is more like a Lionel Messi or Kaka in his playing style. Movement, intelligent and unselfish, along with great composure and vision. He won’t be our top scorer this season, but he’ll get plenty of assists and be part of many of our attacks. You can’t ask Welbeck to be another player than who he is, even agaisnt Arsenal and Spurs he only took on two shots. But he got a goal in each game! Why waste an opportunity when pass is the better option?

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 10:25

          My point exactly – he got goals in those games because he SHOOTS at OT and those games were at OT. He had 3 good chances to shoot at L’Pool but he passed to a united player in a less opportune position and we lost the chance- WHY? He wimps out away from home! END OF. He is doing very well otherwise.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 00:07

          NO 😀

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 00:11

          My NO was a response to Rimmers request to chill out, just in case you wondered 🙂

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 08:29

          Craigyyyyyy!! :mrgreen: So badass!

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 10:06

          😆 😆 😆 nothing like being bad-ass Eddi mi man, I was BORN TO IT :-D. I just wish we had a few more bad-asses here, instead of all the self proclaimed Man Utd saints. You wouldn’t know from most posters on United blogs that the team are named red DEVILS!

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 10:18

          By the way Eddi – I meet lots of United fans down the pubs in Manc land, and when I see them posting on the blogs they are butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths type bloggers – angelic opti’s. Yet listening to them down the pub after a few bevvies and you should hear their rants on players and management – totally different to their blogs 😆 😆 . Hypocrits? Nah they are good lads venting their true feelings down the pub, feelings tho they would never say on United blogs because of the lambasting they would take for trying to be honest. Me I couldn’t give a toss – I say AS I SEE. Other may feel differently and I accept that without deriding them for it – well unless they are pummeling and venting against mi man NANI that is 😉 😉 😆 . I know the Manc fans – from standing on the terraces – they rollick you if you give Rooney a hard time in terrace barracking, but by the end they are right there calling you a dumb-ass but laughing along with you because they are not just the worlds best fans, but the most amiable terrace fans – unless you are the opposing fans and then expect the shit barracking chants 😀 . I love being on the terraces with the United fans, because tho we love to disagree when our favourite players are being got at, we go home friends in the end because we have all had our say or chant or barrack. O yes – come on the lads!

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:23

          Yes Fergie got it wrong and the fact is Eddy and others have shot the messenger, which is me. I reported on the game honestly and without bias and fucking blinders on and I got barraged unfairly and without an ounce of consideration or respect. I have been dying with a terrible lung infection for the past two weeks and so sitting up and taking the time to write the thread was a beast of burden but I never wrote it in a negative manner due to the fact I was sick. I was sick but more sick and tired of Fergie and the garbage he has been feeding us on 90% of all road games for the past three years. After a while you just lose it and say fuck this and explode. But some here love to bend over and take it from Fergie any way they can and they haven’t the bollocks to stand up and challenge the status quo because they are nothing more than conformist corporate chimps sworn to obey. Disturbing.

          The next time I write something positive and get told off for it I will wreak Hell on that individual because I am sick and tired of the flip flopping emotions of people on here regarding what I write. One week I’m too fucking positive for them and the next they want to hang me for treason. I can’t win for losing and when you feel like shit like I do these past few weeks, you ask yourself what the fucking point is offering up this effort for unappreciative critics?

      • RedDevilEddy

        16 October 2011 at 22:41

        Mate, it’s not that I need everyone to agree with me. Had it not been for accepting different opinions I wouldn’t have started on this site in the first place! It’s just that from healthy, intelligent discussion it all seems like stupid rambling these days. I’ll always be “the optimistic” one on this site, but thing is I at least give my reasons to why I have my positive opinions. The only comebacks I get these days are “That’s wrong”, or “Are you serious?? He’s/We’re shit!” without givien any explanation! 😕 🙄 Ever since I became known as the Ando-lover on here I’ve given my reasons as to why I like him, what I think are his strengths, his weaknesses, his overall contribution etc. I’ve said why I think Evra is a liability, why Sneijder would be a bad signing, why Cleverley is important and why I think Welbeck should be first-choice ahead of Chicharito! But that is my personal opinion, and of course I can’t expect everyone to agree. I don’t even want everyone to agree!! That would be boring! 😆 😆 I just want people to be logical and say why they disagree, so that they can give others an insight into their opinion.

        Like here, Grog says “why the fuck not start Rooney” without even trying to answer the question himself! There are many reasons not to start Rooney, and he doesn’t even consider any of the options before ridiculing Fergie! Why not start Nani or Chicharito? Jet-lag and niggling injury. Why doesn’t Vidic or Cleverley play? Fergie said it pre-match! Cleverley is still a week off because of injury, and should be back along the same time as Rafael, while Vidic wasn’t fit to last 90 minutes in this draining game. Everything written up there is knee-jerk and without doing any background check! I’ve myself had my moments of knee-jerk reactions, but I’ve always gotten the response of “Grow up” by people like Grog’s. I have, and actually manage to not get my bollocks sucked up in my chest whenever we play badly. And it’s not just Grog’s, as said I get this by a lot of people. Lack of logical responses in the comment sections are really putting me off, and people just seem to read parts of my written pieces so I have to repeat myself. You understand? 😐

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 00:33

          I read ALL of your posts as I do everyone elses. I may not agree with everything that is posted, but I read all the comments. Thing is that those posters who make remarks on THE WHY WE FEEL THE WRONG CHOICES WERE MADE are condemned as negative. Yet as you can see from the so called negative posters THEY HAVE SAID CLEARLY why they feel the way they do about things they are commenting on, just as you as the so called positive optimists say they share why they feel the way they do. So what’s the problem? We are not all robots tuned into the same thought patterns when making our judgements – we think what we think, and we say why we think what we think END OF! For all of those who moan about the comments of some red ranters being negative or anti United or whatever – it doesn’t stop said folk from visiting this site often and reading what is being said does it? Nah a lot of people just can’t resist coming to find out what is or isn’t being said – which tells me that they are not accusative or worried enough about what is being said to keep away – its the opposite they can’t stay away if they want too – ADDICTIVE mate, because on other United blogs its same old same old, and strangely people like to have a bloody good moan and so come visit to vent! 😀

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 08:06

          I want discussion, I want people to offer their opinion, and I want people to disagree with me if they actually have another opinion. But I don’t want to hear only that opinion, I want to know why they actually have it! Other than that it’s just emotional rambling. Jay Wire and Johnsom may have a few critics on this place, but at least they offer an opinion and then back it up with logic and knowledge. More people should be like that, it creates discussiong and understanding without creating frustration in disagreements. It’s a football blog, we are supposed to discuss this beautiful game! Never should everybody agree, if so then everybody would love Barca, or everyone would love Stoke. I hate both of their guts, but I still respect their play because I understand why they do it and why people love it. At least they can explain it and use their brains when discussing.

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:30

          You don’t like the fact people like myself tell you to grow up but yet there are times you write like a juvenile and a naive and rather inexperienced one at that. Sorry Eddy but sometimes your age shows up in your writing and feelings the way mine does on the other end of the age spectrum. That’s fine but as I have to often take abuse for my old fashioned way of thinking, you to need to grow a thick skin and understand that the world to people much older than you is far more co0mplicated and a hell of a lot shittier than you perceive it to be. If you go through many career changes, disappointments, divorces, health problems brought on by age and abuse etc, perhaps then you will understand where old Grognard’s like me come from when we show a lot less patience and understanding towards our football team. I write from a different perspective than you and my expectations may be very different than yours. You don’t have to agree with them but you need to respect them as I respect but disagree with yours. Not threaten to walk like an immature baby whenever I write something that you disagree with. Who said I had to conform to your way of thinking? Be fair and be an individual that respects varied ways of thinking. You learn more that way.

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 00:05

      What are you looking for from fans mate? You are looking for obedient loyal and conformist Pavlovian muppets who cannot and should not have a free thought that challenges the team, manager or players. Never ever put down anyone even if they are sucking snatch with a straw. Get over yourself Eddy, people have a right to feel the way they want about the club, manager and players and if we are down on Fletcher than so be it. Nobody said anyone had to be fair to anyone. Fletcher has missed a lot of time and he is playing awful football. Sure I understand why and I sympathize but the fact is he sucks right now and fans have a right express that whether it is fair or not.

      Please stop telling everyone how they should act and react to the club and how they need to bottle their emotions and feelings and just conform to the corporate model of fan reaction. When the club plays well you will hear of it from me. When they suck they will feel my wrath. Why? Because it’s my right to do so as a consumer and as a fan. I cow down to nobody’s rules and nobody else should have to. Who put you in charge of tempering fan reactions anyway? JEEZ, Seriously. 🙄 🙄

      • RedDevilEddy

        17 October 2011 at 08:08

        Do you actually read anything I write? 🙄

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 18:34

          I read every word you write and even though I often disagree, I have never lambasted you with such hate and disrespect as you have shown me these past few days. Often what you write makes me shake my head and more often than not I don’t even respond because I like you and I don’t want to offend you. You often write like a kid who is awfully naive about life but you also have intelligence and knowledge of the game so I do read your stuff and quite often I like it as well. Bottom line is I respect your views mate even if I don’t always agree with them. Can you say the same about yourself when it comes to my views? I think not, and that saddens me deeply.

  4. d

    16 October 2011 at 20:45

    a bit disappointed with this article. i wish there was a journalist who would break down the game and offer a critique backed with match facts. rather then just get angry that the team selection wasn’t right or that Evra was out side of the scope of the wall during gerrard’s free kick. Lame dude. Really lame.

    • RedDevilEddy

      16 October 2011 at 21:28

      I did it yesterday. Could re-post it if you want.

      • Grognard

        17 October 2011 at 00:07

        I never stepped on your toes and I praised you when you offer up your threads, so stop stepping on my toes and belittling my efforts.

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 18:36

      Disappointed in your troll like practice to show up out of the blue and put down my efforts just because I’m not conforming to your new world order. Get a grip. What’s next, “Resistance is futile” you silly little Borg?

  5. gator

    16 October 2011 at 21:11

    I guess youve all heard the evra suarez accusations???

    i was trying to find a clip of him saying the word in question and saw him saying something but nothing conclusive.

    However while watching this fan vid from a liverpool supporter that shows when evra goes down from the suarez challenge. The stands are booing and screaming at him then at about the 1:27ish mark a coin bounces by evra and then dick kunt looks to spit at him but not really. fucked up shit. cant officials watch the footage and fine the shit out of pools for coin throwing? 👿 they cant just eat their rat sandwich and enjoy the match can they? Link

  6. gator

    16 October 2011 at 21:14

    at 1:40 you can hear the monkey calls 😥 shameful fans.

    • gator

      16 October 2011 at 21:20

      dont forget this


  7. Ian

    16 October 2011 at 21:21

    I must admit Grog, I’m not sure the criticism is warranted on this occassion. Having been beaten there 3 times on the spin and in need of restoring some pride I think SAF got it dead right.

    Yes we rode our luck but the game was going to plan until a simple mistake and a huge slice of luck (Gerrard admits he was trying to get it over the wall) cost us a goal.

    I know it’s nice to put out the strongest XI when possible and swashbuckle your way to 3pts, but every now and again you have to respect the venue and the mindset of the opponent. Those Scouse bastards want to beat us more than they want justice for Hillsborough, the hatred is something I reckon you can only guess at and isn’t appreciated around the world. Fans just see it as two big teams doing battle…’s more than that……it’s literally war on and off the pitch.

    The way I see it is SAF rested a few players with a European trip and the Derby (against a team who WILL be title rivals – unlike Liverpool – come May) looming this week…..what a pisstake – we go to Anfield and remind them that we’re sitting on their fucking old perch, try a new system AND put a 19yr old newboy in a position he’s never played in at United before and still come away with a draw! To me that’s a result…….them wankers will be fookin fuming!

    Sometimes I think you’re right to pour your anger out but on this occasion I think you’ve got it wrong. You should be proud today, not angry.

    • RedDevilEddy

      16 October 2011 at 21:34

      I don’t think he should be proud, but trying to be understanding wouldn’t be a bad thing! We went there with a gameplan very similar to what we have been doing this season, but the personell was different and of course you then have to make a couple of changes. You can’t expect Park to tear full-backs to shreads, but he’ll give you the workrate of a hundred men. Giggsy won’t fight for every ball, roam all over the pitch and bring enthusiasm and passion wherever he steps foot, but he’ll position himself intelligently and try to make those defence splitting passes that can put a forward in. He didn’t manage that a single time yesterday, but he did it against Spurs, Arsenal and Norwich when he came on. The only thing you can do is to hope he’ll perform on the day, but unfortunately he didn’t. Can’t blame the manager for that.

      • Ian

        16 October 2011 at 21:42

        I’m proud for this reason:

        SAF rarely tries out systems that are designed to stifle the opposition. Why? Because very few teams setup to attack us so there’s no need.

        So, yesterday was the first of what I hope is a handful of times he tries that exact system out. Why? Because, when it comes to playing (insert the B word here) possibly in a 2-legged semi-final then a 1-1 draw away from home is a decent result. Remember – this site tore SAF a new arsehole after the Wembley defeat to (insert here again) and suggested he’s inept and can’t beat them.

        Liverpool spent a few quid and bought some decent players in Suarez and Adam, add to that the atmosphere and recent results and everything else I originally said and we’ve got good reason to be pretty happy with the point.

        How many teams will go to Anfield and win this season? Not many. The only one or two that do will probably be mid-to-lower table teams who park the bus and Liverpool have a bad day….therefore be proud of our young experimental team who went to Anfield and learnt how NOT to get beat there.

        Happy fookin Days!

        • RedDevilEddy

          16 October 2011 at 22:28

          Fair point, and kinda agree with it. A point isn’t the end of the world, this is still our best start to a Premier League season during its Era!

        • [OPTI]Madschester United

          17 October 2011 at 18:44

          B-word = Banana ? 😀

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 00:10

      Sorry Ian but the draw only masks the fact that we got thoroughly beaten. That should have been a loss and the fact it wasn’t only masks the reality of the situation. One bloody scoring chance of any consequence all game compared to at least a half dozen by Liverpool tells the truth. I don’t want to be negative. I want to write threads like I did after Bolton or Arsenal, but that is not what happened and ever since the Benfica match Fergie has gone coward on us and is letting this club and it’s talent down with terrible squad selections and awful tactics. At least I have the courage to question him and challenge him which a few on here lack.

  8. Fuck u

    16 October 2011 at 21:41

    Hey dude, I think you are a scouser. How can a true utd fan say so much negativity, particurlaly to evra. For your info evra dint have a bad game as you mentioned. Your Red rants articles just turn every utd fan off. Please direct your negativity to other clubs. You piss off utd fans.

    • RedDevilEddy

      16 October 2011 at 22:48

      I don’t think Evra had a bad game, imo this was his best of the season. If anyone should get critisized it’s Rio, who positioned himself badly and didn’t really have the physical presence or stamina to deal with Suarez. I said before the game that Smalling and Evans would be vital, as Liverpool will try to play wide, then cutting in, with Suarez roaming all around the place. Rio has always been a player who stays cover and marks position, trying to avoid tackles by covering space. Against flexive strikers like Suarez we needed defenders who can press and both mark room but still not be afraid to get stuck in. Smalling and Evans would be a perfect pairing against a flexive attack like Liverpool, and those two were along with De Gea our best performers. Suarez didn’t get past Evans once! Credit given where credit is due to the Red Rants whipping boy.

      • Craig Mc

        17 October 2011 at 00:39

        I think Rio did ok yesterday as did Evans and Smalling. The fact Adams did a swan dive when hardly touched was and got the free kick which resulted in their goal was not Rio’s fault. I thought Rio has his best game for a while 🙂

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 00:11

      Fuck u

  9. RedDevilEddy

    16 October 2011 at 23:31

    People say we started playing boring since Cleverley got injured. I agree with that, but our main problem lately has been more of players trying to fit into their new roles. Our system this season is perfectly built up for pressing high, dominating possession, and having the ability to play quick and accurate passes all over the pitch.

    Against Chelsea we really missed Cleverley, and Welbeck. With Fletcher and Chicharito in the side, we really lost our ability to keep possession. As pointed out, Fletcher still struggles with our quick and flexible passing, and because of that he was played as our attacking defensive midfielder against Chelsea. The risk of him having too many stray passes so close to our defence was to grave to use him defensivly, which led to Ando being put in a defensive role he didn’t really do well. He wasn’t bad, but he was far from solid and that is probably his most incosistent showing this season. Because Anderson didn’t play so high, we didn’t really get the ball to Rooney, so he had to drop deeper to collect. Young didn’t get the support from Evra and Anderson, which led to Nani and Smalling being our main force going forward. Those two were also our best players that game.

    Chicharito really sturggles in this team. His main assets are goalscoring and positining, but we don’t really play that way this season. He doesn’t really get involved in play, and when he does his touch leaves him chasing oppositions. Agaisnt Chelsea this was woefully exposed, with Chicharito having fewer touches in his 70 minutes than Berba did in his 20.

    Then Stoke. Berba and Owen are both too static going forward, leaving Stoke pressing higher than they actually do. Even for them! And because Rio doesn’t really suit our defensive style anymore, with his stamina leaving him woefully exposed, he was fucked over by Crouch time and time again. We had no strikers, so had no-one to play the ball to in quick movement, and with Rio being so poor we looked incredibly weak defensivly. Poor game against Stoke.

    Basel, too much went wrong for me to bother explaining. Evra our of position, Rio not paying attention, Jones showing his inexperience, and Giggsy doing shit besides getting two assists.

    Against Norwich we were poor until Welbeck and Giggsy came on, which really adds to my claim that Welbeck is a better fit for this team than Chicharito currently is. Whenever Nani or Park got the ball they didn’t really find anybody, either because Chicharito was too focused on getting in a goalscoring position than trying to help them out. Anderson was really poor because we didn’t really have width on our left, meaning he had to play forward. And when Chicharito plays during a dominant Manchester United game, we either have to play wide or we a crucially fucked up the arse. With Rooney being the only man to play to, it’s easy doing the marking. And whenever Chico got the ball, he lost it. Then when Welbeck came on, we got another player to help out. Look at his goal, and the chances he got in. His goal, can you ever imagine Chicarito scoring like that? Positioning himself on 25 yards, then waiting for Park to make a run before playing an inch perfect pass, then getting into a position for the cut back. Had it been Chicharito there, he would have already been in the box, stretching the defence or getting offside. He anticipates the cross, but because our play is so possession-orientated this season he doesn’t really fit when we have the ball centrally… Leading him getting into too many offside positions.

    Then came Liverpool. And I won’t write why I think we played the way we did this game here, because I’ve done it before.

    Anybody have any objections?

    • Craig Mc

      17 October 2011 at 00:52

      Eddi you say our main problem is players trying to fit into their new roles – right? Well this is Grog and my comments exactly, that is how the fuck are they going to do that when they are changed around so often that none of them has time to assimilate to their NEW ROLE. Some of them the Jones, Smallings, of this world are changed in different positions so often, and never play with the same settled team for more than a couple of games – how can they become accustomed to any role? That is our arguement – team tinkering of the highest level – like not just a couple of players at any time, but 7, 8, 9, sometimes. The sports commentators were all saying yesterday that Man Utd play in their last several games NOT LIKE A TEAM, but like a bunch of strangers who don’t know each other – and I must say I get this feeling too. This is why we can’t get any flow or rhythm, but then not many United fans can see that or even if they do see want to acknowledge it. Also I think Chicharito is a miles better goalscorer than Welbeck, but the difference is Chicharito plays off the last man, and he needs a very creative MF to put him thru one on one, in the same way Mickey Owen does, and one on one off the shoulder players like these two WILL SCORE more than they will miss. They can do it home AND AWAY games to!

  10. RedDevilEddy

    16 October 2011 at 23:34

    Ever since 2006, we have gotten Vidic sent off twice, Scholes once and Nani gone off with a leg ripped apart. We have finished the game with ten men in 4 out of our last 5 games there before this one, and 3 of them were lost. Starting Rooney would be suicide!

  11. RedDevilEddy

    16 October 2011 at 23:39

    I actually wonder whether we will become better when Vidic returns? Evans has been pretty solid, and if there is anybody who has looked bad at the back this season it’s been Rio. The lad we missed in our last three games was Smalling, and all of those have been our worst defensive games this season! Jones and Rio got ripped apart against Stoke and Basel, while Norwich got a few chances against Evans and Jones(mainly because of unfortunate slips or one where Valencia tried to play it too cool). Smalling has been a beast at right back so far, and seems to communicate well with Jonesy. He also was my man of the match yesterday.

    I’ve never really been a big fan of Smalling, but he is really impressing me this season. If anything, I say he and Vidic should be our first choice centre back pairing with Jones on the right. They look really solid, very difficult to get past and their flexible defending makes them a perfect pick for the way this team plays this season. I’m finally managing to get Fergie! 😛 😆

  12. colver

    17 October 2011 at 01:27

    Eddie I agree that we are trying to play a different system. And it worked brilliantly when we had all our team fit. But outside our first XI we simply do not have the personnel to make this new system work.

    What is the point of having a system that works great for our first XI if it breaks down every time we have injuries or try to rotate?

    Players like Giggs and Fletcher will not adapt at their age. They do not have the skillset. Hernandez is a nice player but he loses the ball too much or gets caught offside and it makes it exhausting for the rest of the team if they have to cover for him so the possession football breaks down.

    This is why pressing is so rarely effective as a tactic. It only works if you can be sure that when you do win the ball back you can keep it long enough to allow players to replenish their tanks.

    The workhorses with the battery to press such as Fletcher and Park are no use because they will lose the ball almost immediately. Players like Carrick and Giggs don’t have the legs for it. Only Anderson and Cleverley fit the bill for it.

    The way I see it when we have the right players in place we should go for that system.

    When we don’t we should just go with the tried and tested way of defending deep and then channelling the ball out wide and counter attacking with pace. It is what we are good at. And even players like Fletcher and Giggs can do this. And Carrick is made for it.

    It is not ideal to have two different systems we use. But it is the only real way to reconcile the old and the new.

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 18:42

      The system we played yesterday has nothing to do with the system used vs Arsenal when we won 8-2. It was defensive and cowardly in nature and we were slow and lacked any tempo or ball control. Unlike the Arsenal game where speed and killer instinct and the desire to take shots and test Arsenal was the key to our win. Against Arsenal we drove the bus down their throats where against Liverpool we parked it and set up the barbecue for a long boring feast of mutton.

      Fact is Fergie unlike Barcelona is too insecure to stick with one proven and successful tactical system no matter who the competition may be. He alters systems the way some people change socks and he does it to the point of confusion for all his players.

  13. colver

    17 October 2011 at 01:35

    Defence is a tricky one. I agree with Jay Wire that Evans is a fine defender even if he has a tendency to get bullied. Jones for all his bravery and enteprise scares the hell out of me. Should not be playing in Europe. Not particularly keen on him playing in big games in the centre either. I don’t think he is a particularly good right back either. And definitely not good in central midfield.

    He needs to learn his craft. That is all. He is young. We bought him way sooner than we anticipated. Players like Smalling, Evans, Rio, Vidic are better than him. But he will get his chances and will develop into a great defender in a few years time.

  14. johnsom33

    17 October 2011 at 08:03

    hahahha this place is a mad house now.

    • RedDevilEddy

      17 October 2011 at 08:11

      😆 😆 😆

    • Ian

      17 October 2011 at 11:58

      But it never used to be?

      ❗ ❗ ❗ ❗

      • Stephen

        17 October 2011 at 12:12

        The issue is now that the lunatics have taken over the asylum! 😀 😀 😀 😆 😆

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 13:00

          You calling me a lunatic Stephen mi man – ok I know where you live 😉 😆

        • [OPTI]Madschester United

          17 October 2011 at 18:45

          Where is Batman…

      • Craig Mc

        17 October 2011 at 13:02

        Nothing wrong with lunatics – they talk more sense than some of you so called SANE! 😆

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:07

          I am far from sane mate! :mrgreen: 😈 😛 👿

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 13:56

          😆 😆 😆 😆 – NEVER a truer word spoken Stephen – join the clan mate! 😀

  15. RedDevilEddy

    17 October 2011 at 08:17

    This is the best start Manchester United have ever made to a Premier League season, and we are 3 points better off than what we were at this stage during our double winning 2007/08 campaign.

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 09:51

      The real concern is the form of City, they are the REAL deal unfortunatly.

      • Ian

        17 October 2011 at 10:02

        But will they sustain this form? That’s the question. I reckon SAF doubts it, so do I. They’ll suffer a dip at some point.

        Hopefully it starts next week 😀

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 10:17

          They have a massive squad full of quality. The key for them is how they firstly bounce back from a defeat and secondly after Champions League games.

        • [OPTI]Madschester United

          17 October 2011 at 18:49

          their dip will come once they lose an EPL game. Look at what happened after Bayern game… Tevez and Dzeko go nuts… CITY = JOKE!

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 18:47

      All you care about is points and standing. I can get that by reading results in the morning paper. Problem is I devote two hours of my time to watch this team and frankly, I don’t always get what I paid for and I am paying for the service that offers me these games here in Canada. I also do not appreciate waking up at 4:30am out of loyalty to be served up a steaming hot bowl of Fergie crap as my breakfast. I could care less about the point or points we win if the product and entertainment value is nil and void. You just don’t get it mate. I want style with my substance and I want my cake and eat it too. I am a United supporter for 35 years running and I am spoilt on this and demand and expect it.

      • Ian

        17 October 2011 at 20:12

        Van, you know I’m with you on that style and substance being on the menu but every once in a while I think you have to accept a more disciplined approach instead of the more flamboyant one we crave week-in week-out.

        Yes I agree there are too many occasions where we’ve served up some piss poor performances due to negative tactics and personnel, but Saturday was born out of necessity rather than negativity.

        Yes we had other personnel to use but who know’s what the score might’ve been with these on the pitch instead of others. Some people suggesting United would walk it with just the addition of Nani and Rooney. That can’t be proved or disproved so it’s folly to even suggest it.

        On this occasion I think you’ve called it wrong. You’re wrong to begrudge SAF the chance to experiment and come away with a draw from Anfield and take the selfish ‘I pays my money I expect to see the Harlem Globetrotters’ attitude.

        Get well soon mate. And listen…..there’s more people reading and commenting on this who appreciate your articles than there are who don’t…..remember that.

  16. Stephen

    17 October 2011 at 09:26

    The fact of the matter is that we should have taken the game to Liverpool. Fergie bottled it, he went for a draw, the side which we put out really was designed to win.
    Forget about Tuesday, they are a pub team and the idea of resting players for that one is a fallacy. We set a team us not to loose, this is the reality.
    No other side in the league for a big game would have dropped, Rooney, Nani, Carrick and Vida. Playing Jones in midfield was a disaster, Ok to play him on Tuesday but Fergie got it wrong.

    • AndyCR7

      17 October 2011 at 17:58

      For me United-Liverpool game means much more than 3 points! The way I see it is we were outplayed by our most hated rivals.

      • Grognard

        17 October 2011 at 18:48

        Here here.

  17. 19Champions

    17 October 2011 at 09:51

    I wonder if it would have been a “United display” if Fergie went gung ho and we lost 3 – 1. The selection was questionable, but it did the job. Rooney has always bottled up when playing Pool. He was a ripe candidate for a Red. Why risk having him sent off and miss another key game coming this weekend?

    As for Fergie getting away with ‘questionable decision making’ I guess he knows a thing or two about making decisions. You don’t win 12 titles if you don’t. I guess you will be the same one hailing his decision making prowess when he lands us another title.

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 10:05

      So we don’t play our best player because we are scared he will get sent off?
      United sides go to win, we don’t play for draws. I am a big Fergie supporter, but he is not beyond questioning, he got the side wrong.

      • 19Champions

        17 October 2011 at 10:41

        Yeah, we don’t. Its about being pragmatic and looking at the bigger picture. I wonder how Capello feels about missing his best player for 3 group games.
        I too question Fergie’s selections on countless times. But most times, they get the job done, like on Saturday. Pool up their games when United go visiting, they have picked us apart there on the last 3 seasons. I would pick a draw any day over a 3 – 1 drubbing.
        As for going out to win, I too prefer it. But after the humbling experience of Wembley, I don’t mind parking the bus on occasion if you can nick a draw. No one knows how it would have ended up if Fergie packed it against Barca.

  18. 19Champions

    17 October 2011 at 10:09

    And what’s this thing that snatching a point doesn’t mask the fact that we are a poor team? Any team has its lucky breaks. Being lucky doesn’t mean you are shit. Does it mean the ’99 team was shit coz it had so many lucky breaks?

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 10:15

      When have I said we are shit? To win titles and pots you needs luck. We were lucky on Saturday, if Dogleash had the guts to bring on Carroll I think we would have lost. We should have started with Rooney, with a point to prove up front. Also if Rooney isn’t meantally right, why not play Berba? The Jones gamble did not pay off, yes Fergie gets many things right, on Saturday he did not.

  19. matt

    17 October 2011 at 10:10

    “Somebody up there likes him because he continues to get away with very questionable and unimpressive decision-making”.

    have you ever thought SAF continually gets away with it because he continually makes the right decisions? good god, hearing you talk shit makes me question my own clubs supporters.

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 10:43

      So Fergie is right 100% of the time, of course not. I am entitled to my opinion and you yours, I have been to more games than you have hot dinners pal, don’t question my support.

    • Ian

      17 October 2011 at 10:46

      good god, hearing you talk shit makes me question my own clubs supporters

      Don’t you know there’s two sides to every story? For every opinion there’s an opposite one?

      Translating your comment to basically this….

      1. You’re not entitled to an opinion unless it matches that of me and the masses.

      2. If you dare to have a different opinion to me and the masses I’ll call it talking shit and question your support in an attempt to increase my popularity.

      3. I actually agree he made the right decision on Saturday and Grognard’s attitude to the gaffer on this occasion is unwarranted….but no one can question his support that’s for sure.

      • Stephen

        17 October 2011 at 10:54

        Sorry Rimmers how did Fergie get it right? The perfomance was awful, we are playing a pub side on Tuesday, we only got a draw becuase Nani, Chicharito and Rooney came on and saved the day. He got the side, tactics wrong, sorry mate.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 11:13

          Don’t be sorry mate that’s your opinion.

          we only got a draw becuase Nani, Chicharito and Rooney came on and saved the day

          I’m glad you spotted it……that was the plan!…..that’s why I think he got it right.

          Had the wall done its job or Gerrard put his freekick over we’d have the 3pts. It’s a results business and going there is tough. We got a point which is more than we’ve got there in 3 years so let’s be happy and move on.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 11:19

          I was relieved rather than pleased. I am sure the plan was not to go a goal down, bring on three subs and snatch a point mate……. He got his team selection wrong, yet again playing square pegs in round holes, no other side would have gambled the way Fergie did, he was lucky.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 11:55

          Fuck sake, people need to get a grip of themselves here.

          He got his team selection wrong?

          Why? Says who? You? FFS. Have you run the game on FM12 with different players and won 3-0 or something? Have you consulted your crystal ball that says ‘if he’d played Nani instead of Park we won 2-1’….have you?

          FFS, Who was

          out of position?

          Phil Jones? He’s played there before and that’s one major reason we should be happy….SAFs chosen a stiff test to see what the boy’s made of in that role, probably with an eye on important fixtures to come later in the season. MASTERSTROKE……go to Anfield and experiment???? He’s taken the piss…..can’t you see that?

          No other team would’ve gambled?

          FFS Stephen are you serious? Not many teams will go there and try to attack attack attack and no other team will go there and face the kind of determination from them bastards than we do. The atmosphere is upped, their levels of enthusiasm is upped, workrate etc etc goes up a level…..we countered that for the first time in 4 years by playing an experimental side.

          Jesus man, it’s one thing to have differing opinions but ffs, everytime we don’t win the same old faces come out and question the decisions, the team, the players, the gaffer etc etc…..take a minute, sit back and think about the whole scenario, don’t just look at the numbers on the scoreboard.

          Stephen, this isn’t purely a pop at you mate but this reaction is nonsense.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 12:05

          Mate firstly I am not one for having a pop at Fergie, I normally defend him to the hilt. Do you really think he got his side, tactics right on Saturday? Jones being deployed as an attacking midfield player was wrong. Fergie seems to have an obsession with playing players out of postition. Giggs shouldn’t start games like that anymore, why not play Berba, or Owen?
          Yes a pont was a good result, but we could have easily have lost. It is a fans right to question certain decisions, I pay my money and believe I should air my feelings. If you think Fergie is unquestionable then that is your right. He is a superb manager but in my view he got it wrong and yes great we got away with it.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 12:32

          I’m not saying he got it right because there is no right or wrong way to play. He’s in charge and he picks the team. He’s far from unquestionable but on this occasion he doesn’t deserve the criticism. Jones did a job on Adam, he wasn’t flawless and could’ve played tighter to him but he showed pretty good discipline under the circumstances so I’m happy with the outcome.

          Question: Remember when we’ve had Carrick and Fletcher at centre backs in the past? Fletcher’s played rightback too. Giggs has been known to play leftback over the years. Having these players capable of playing in round holes strengthens a team. Not many clubs have this option, or at least not many clubs continue winning while HAVING to improvise during the times when many players are out injured.

          SAF DIDN’T GET IT WRONG – HE EXPERIMENTED. He did it with the future in mind and we got a point. This teams still work-in-progress and I reckon SAF learnt a lot on Saturday. We might even look back on that game later in the season and say “you know what?… I see what he was thinking?”

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 12:40

          I don’t disagree with that mate. For me there is a right and wrong time to experiment. Liverpool away for me isn’t the right time to do it. Against Galati, or Aldershot is the right time. In the future we may see Jones as a top centre mid, but why do it in arguably the biggest game of the season?
          There is also a fine line between getting it right and getting away with it, for me Saturday was the latter.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 13:48

          Mmmmm I see some Rimmer anger boiling there! What do you want mate – a team of posters on here just trotting out the same old NON CRITICAL dogma – just asking? A lot of people including ex pros and sports commentators thought Fergie had got it very wrong yesterday – and so what it is just there opinion to have isn’t it? So not just same people trotting out their take on things as you said mate. A lot of others agree. Anyway it matters little to me whether people agree with me or not, I will call the spade I see a spade, whereas you will call out the spade you see as your type of spade – that is fandom and it is good as far as I am concerned! No need to get tetchy with peeps about it. And by the way – I really think that with Nani and Chicharito on the pitch from beginning we really would have beaten the scouse GITS 6-0 with hat tricks for Nani and Little pea.


        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:56

          People can say what they want but you’re wrong. Those players were coming on regardless.

          and do me a favour, if you’re going to tell me not to get tetchy then please don’t predict a 6-0 away at Liverpool just because you say Chico and Nani should’ve started…’s folly mate.

          Be happy with the point and the experience gained.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:14

          That’s exactly why you experiment…..arguably the most important game of the season. What’s the point of experimenting against Aldershot, they’re not going to give you the kind of test Liverpool gave us.

          He’s experimented, had whatever questions he needed answering answered and come away from it with a point…..happy days!

          There’s an element of ‘the glass is half full’ ….NO ….’the glass is half empty’ going on here. You think he got away with it and Grog thinks we were lucky. I think if the wall did its job we could’ve won 1-0 and took all 3pts.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 13:36

          I think you are wrong Rimmers – soz. Because IF they hadn’t been gifted the goal – then our subs would not have been sent on – not 3 strikers anyway. They were sent on because we were chasing a goal – so no strikers would not be on in the numbers they were, and so we would not have won 1-0. Welbeck was NEVER going to shoot let alone score in that game mate 😀

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:39

          You also experiment FOR the big games, if things work then you go with it, if not hopefully you havenough to get through it. Gambling away at Anfield is a big risk, not may would have and I believe we were lucky to get away with it.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:52

          That’s exactly what he did…experiment for the big games.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:52

          imo that’s wrong.

    • RedDevilEddy

      17 October 2011 at 12:54

      @Stephen mate, what do you actually know about Galati? I’ve never seen them play before, and unless you have I suggest you stay away from calling them a pub team. Crawley fucked our shit up at Old Trafford last season, and for all we know Galati may just be a great team. The main ingredients for having a good team is a good coach who applies great tactics, and he gets the players who can fill those spots in his team, then they need the dedication, stamina, and luck, to pull it all off. The difference between a great team and a good team is the ability to adabt, and that is we set apart from teams like Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. I don’t know anything about Galati yet, but I do know that it’s a game we HAVE TO win. That makes it a hard game for me… 😐

      • Stephen

        17 October 2011 at 12:58

        I know that we should beat them mate and they are not as good as Liverpool, that is all.
        Fergie is the best manager the club has ever had, he gets may things right but also makes mistakes, we should be the Romanians with our reserves…

      • Craig Mc

        17 October 2011 at 13:12

        Good grief you have become SO STAID now, it is becoming boring. Mate stop trying to be the thought control policeman – Stephen can say what he likes without continual correction from you Eddi. Read back thru some of our posts IF you still think we don’t give our reasons to back what we think. Stephen is not the type to write fucking long yarns of posts – so let it be. What you are really doing Eddi is trying to make us see things in this very new way you do – well news mate – we are not all of the same thought and particularities as you seem to be right now – LIVE WITH IT! 😀

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 13:35

          So I’m not allowed to give my opinions on something now, is that what you are saying? You go on and on about how everybody should be allowed their free speach, well this is how I use it. Not trying to talk down on Stephen, not in any way, just saying that we can’t take anything for granted because we simply don’t know anything about them! For all we know they may be our bitch like Aston Villa used to be, or they could play like Barca or some superteam that is impossible to beat! I don’t know what your problem is with me these days, I’m giving an insight to my thoughts by sharing my opinions while also expressing why I have them. What’s wrong with that?? 😕 😕

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 18:51

      And who the fuck are you showing up out of the blue and daring to have the gall to question me or any other regular on here. Piss off you fucking troll and go back to Red Cafe with all the other chimps.

  20. RedDevilEddy

    17 October 2011 at 12:49

    @Craig @Grog @Ian

    Lads, I just want to make clear that I’ve not made a personal attack on Grognard or anybody else here. My sole complaint is in the proffesionalism and objectivity of the article, and then the logical discussion surrounding the comment section. People get ridiculed by giving their opinion and backing it up with relative facts, and their respons is “he’s shit” or something like that, without even making the least kind of effort to try to say exactly WHY he is shit. Why is he shit? Why the fuck would Fergie have him if he’s shit? You can say Fergie makes stupid mistakes, bad decisions, and of course he isn’t perfect, but he is certanly not a dumb man. He would not keep a player who has been here for 3 or 4 years if he is well and truly shit! If they are youngsters, they need time. Where most people complain on Anderson it is that he is inconsistent, and he needs maturity and games to grow. Anwser to problems? Sell him! 🙄 Same goes for Evans, what has been his mistakes? Lack of focus, always being a split second too late. Very few defenders are that good at a young age, so let’s sell him shall we? Carrick, Fletcher, Rio… Shit! I’m saying Rio has performed badly this season, and I back that up by saying he is too positional and doesn’t have the stamina to last with our high pressure for 90 minutes. Fix that, and he is good to go again.

    We play players, not names. Make a midfield of Sneijder, Goetze, Nasri and De Rossi and let’s see how that goes against Liverpool. We went with a midfield that needed energy, and our most energetic midfield players who can last such a stamina-draining game was Jones, Fletch, Park and Young. Probably our fittest players along with Rooney when mentally stable.

    • Ian

      17 October 2011 at 12:57

      Good points on the football Eddy, except the bit about the article lacking professionalism….if you’re looking for that you need to read the Telegraph or some other professional site. Writers for RedRants are amatuers…, me, grog, jay…the lot of us, and not all of our styles or opinions are going to be liked are they?

      • Stephen

        17 October 2011 at 13:02

        We should experiment against the top sides? I simply do not agree with that mate. We should experiment against weaker sides to give players a chance to bed in with their new positions. Should we gamble again on Sunday? No chance gainst the big sides we need to play our best team.
        If we hadn’t gone a goal down Fergie would not have brought on Nani, Chichi and Rooney, he was happy with a draw mate.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:13

          Are you forgetting the charity shield? Was that midfield that tore them apart in the second half part of the plan? No, it wasn’t.

          And yes, when you can experiment against Liverpool AT Liverpool… know you’ve got a fucking good manager and a fucking good team of players.


          a test, trial, or tentative procedure; an act or operation for the purpose of discovering something unknown or of testing a principle

          To conduct an experiment you need the correct apparatus. Liverpool were the right apparatus to test that system. Wigan would not be suitable, nor would Stoke, or Swansea or Norwich or Villa or Newcastle etc etc.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:22

          I would personally not experiment against a top side, we could loose. Would Barca gamble against Real? Of course not mate be real. Experimenting is gambling, gambling is all well and good when the odds are in your favour, at Anfield they are not. For me is did not experiment, he set up a side that he felt would not loose, lots of hard workers, little creativity. He could not bare to loose there again and played for a draw.

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 13:30

          Inter experimented against Barca in 2010, and it won them the Champions League.

          Same goes for us against Arsenal in the 2009 semi’s.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 14:01

          Barca also had a perfectly good goal disallowed, that also helped. Inter only played with Eto’o, Pandev and Milito as a front three, which they had played in the league before….Hardly an experiment playing players in their natural positions…

        • 19Champions

          17 October 2011 at 13:53

          United played with 7 defenders against Arsenal in the FA Cup last season. It was a big experiment. It paid off. It wouldn’t be an experiment against Wigan or Swansea. Our 2nd string would be expected to give them a hiding even if Jones was playing as a center forward.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 14:04

          We played Fabio and Rafa out wide, they are attacking fullbacks anyway… hardly a big experiment, also Fergie would not have been too bothered if we were knocked out. The Champions league and the Premiership are the impoertant ones, so he gambled in a game he did not mind loosing.
          Not Liverpool in the Premiership.

        • 19Champions

          17 October 2011 at 14:16

          He gambled, but IMO, it paid off. We have City and Everton next in the league. I wouldn’t want to go into those games missing Rooney. And that CL game is a massive one, whichever way you look at it. We have to win before Benfica/Basel get out of sight. So, we got 3 big games coming up and everyone needs to be playing.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 14:20

          Agreed but it was hardly a definate that Wazza was going to be sent off..

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 14:27

          SAF doesn’t trust the whole scenario surrounding Rooney/Anfield. Last year he didn’t even travel did he? Wasn’t it around the time he nobbed that brass?

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 13:17

          Too bloody true mate – too bloody true, best players always on pitch when fit and available in big games. 😀

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:27


        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:31

          No mate, playing your strongest team in the big games is sensible.

        • AndyCR7

          17 October 2011 at 18:07

          I wonder what “their” opinion would have been, had De Gea not made all 4 top class saves!

          Thing is I don’t expect him to make these kind of saves all the time… Few of them are gonna go in!

        • 19Champions

          18 October 2011 at 07:25

          Thing is, he made the saves. Its what he is in the team for. Going by your line of thought, what if Giggs had defended like he was supposed to?

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 14:25

          What do you mean Rimmers Bro – I have just been to specsavers – and they tell me I have perfect VISION 🙂

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 13:26

          What part of this was experimental? We used a midfield full of energy, we have done that times and time before. We fucked Chelsea with it in 2009, and Arsenal for 2 or 3 games back in 2009-/2010. Fletcher, Park, Valencia, even Giggsy to some degree are very hard working players who will run until they are out of air in their lungs. The only part about this game that was experimental was Jones in central midfield, but he’s played there for Blackburn a few times hasn’t he? And some people actually thought he could do a decent job there. I felt he did well. I fought, good positioning, attacked when needed, and stayed back intelligently. Replace Jones with Giggs or Anderson, and then Giggsy with Tevez or Rooney, and you’ll see that that kind of team, the type of qualities it had, is very much the same as what has been our great recipe for winning games against top oppositions the past couple of years.

          Had Giggsy found Welbeck or Young more times than he did, we would have had countless counter attacking chances. When Nani and Rooney came on, we became dominant. That is obvious for all to see. That’s not only because of the change in personell, but a change in tactics. Hold onto the ball, pull the whole team forward, and there you have it. We got more possession, but were left open for more counter attacks. And although people say we were better when Nani, Rooney and Chicharito came on, we also conceded more chances during those 20 minutes than what we had the whole game. De Gea pulled off some marvellous saves from Kuyt and Henderson, Rooney headed clear when Suarez would have been certain to score, and Henderson headed wide. Yeah, Nani and Rooney made us better going forward but we conceded more chances against us. Forget the “Nani came on and did it all”, trust me, had Nani started that game with the tactics we applied for the first 70 minutes we would have lost by a great margin. We needed work-rate for this game, not only talent.

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 14:29

          TOTAL TRIPE Eddi! We would have murdered them with Nani, Rooney and Chicharito – end of! I recall Rooney and Nani in the opposition box CLEARING the ball and preventing certain scouse git goals.

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 13:30

          And are you joking about not bringing on Nani, Rooney and Javi until we went a goal down…..surely that’s just fishing? I’m not biting to that mate!

          The plan was keep it tight, smash’n’grab last 20 minutes. They scored as he was making these changes to win the game.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:48

          I personally think Fergie was playing for a draw, we went a goal down and had to attack. For me we should have attacked them from the start, but all in all it was a good point.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 14:44

          Yes mate, he was dropped when he was caught shagging that hooker. It does seem odd that Fergie is almost scared to play him at Anfield. Yes he has a temper but he is hardly out od control. Big games player like him would revel in that atmosphere, strange.

      • RedDevilEddy

        17 October 2011 at 13:17

        Everyone have their own way of thinking, own way of writing… But when it comes to writing articles, being a representative for this site, you gain some responsibility. I’m not saying he should be boring, or express his views, but it’s the way it’s done here. It’s so inredibly subjective, hate-filled, and as I said knee jerk. It’s written in the moment, without really looking like he’s gone through it nor giving the game a second of his thoughts! It’s aggressive rambling, and although we are amateurs there must be standards? 😕 I still didn’t attack him though, and when he does write these kind of things you can’t expect that everyone will agree, and no-one will react. If people don’t agree with what I have to say, or think I do something wrong, they should tell me. I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they stick to subject. We are all human, we all have faults! But this article was poorly written, and because I know Grog can do so much better I was really dissapointed. I’ve seen him write great things, he is an intelligent man with a lot of experience. He should be able to do so even when we don’t do well.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:29

          Mate I think you have gone too far saying that.

        • Grognard

          18 October 2011 at 04:45

          You are 16 and wet behind the ears and you are going to tell the likes of me with two degrees and an English and media background that I am not professional or my writing is not up to snuff? Mate you have a set of balls on you that must outweigh the rest of you 2 to 1. You lecturing me on writing is similar to Anderson lecturing Roy Keane on playing midfield. Honestly! 🙄 🙄

    • Grognard

      17 October 2011 at 18:59

      😯 😯 😯 😯 “I’ve not made a personal attack on Grognard or anybody else here. My sole complaint is in the proffesionalism and objectivity of the article,” 😯 😯 😯 🙄 🙄

      Are you fucking serious? Not a personal attack but you question my professionalism and objectivity? Are you fucking kidding me mate? Newsflash, after four years on this blog I do not have to take that kind of unfair and totally whacked out illogical insult. Secondly, I am not a professional mate. I do not get paid for this gig and I offer up my time and effort out of love for this blog, blokes like you and the my love and loyalty to Manchester United. That does not mean I will not call it as I see it and nobody is immune to my criticism on the club because I am going to report on things as I see them to be whether I am wrong or right. It is my individualistic endeavor to offer up my feelings for you agree or disagree with but not to condemn and to disrespect.

      You ungrateful little turd. Who the fuck offered Ian your name as a person who could write threads for this blog? That’s the thanks I get, a stab in my back and the disrespect to assume that I have to follow some preordained Eddyesque guideline for writing. Christ you have hubris for a teen mate, and I for one don’t like it. 😡

  21. colver

    17 October 2011 at 13:23

    Eddie you are as biased as Grognard is. So it is a low blow to start calling him unprofessional. Do you really think you are objective? Of course you aren’t. None of us on here are objective. That is what makes this site interesting. We all see things differently. Some of us are more results oriented and think the end justifies the means. Others would rather we do not resort to negative football and play to win. Some of us are all for squad rotation and others are turned off by it and feel it should be kept to a minimum.

    Also using appeal to authority is a dirty way to argue. If Fergie is infallible then what possible reason is there for this site? Even Ferguson admits he has made many mistakes over the years.

    Also I cannot believe people are saying that if they didn’t get the freekick we would have won. Who is to say if they hadn’t scored we would have scored?

    As is so often the case it is only when the opposition score and we go down that we pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and play decent football.

    Most likely had they not scored they would have continued to dominate and we would have clung on for a draw.

    • RedDevilEddy

      17 October 2011 at 13:28

      There is a great difference between writing a comment and an article. That’s what this is. You think I’ll write an article where I praise Anderson without mentioning a single of his faults? No! That’s unproffesional. That’s what this is about. Had it been a comment, I would have ignored it or given a reply to it talking about his opinions, not his comment alone. I don’t want to repeat myself.

      You see?

      • Stephen

        17 October 2011 at 13:40

        You are a very wise teenager Eddy…….. 😉

        • RedDevilEddy

          17 October 2011 at 13:42

          Are you being sarcastic mate? 😆 😆 Sorry if I’m coming out too strong these days, for that I’ll apologise. But just sharing my honest thoughts here, not trying to be disrespectful.

        • Stephen

          17 October 2011 at 13:46

          I was joking mate. You post things which for me are incorrect, Saha being better than Ruud and Hughes for one. Grog writes with passion as do you mate and keep it up. But football is all about opinion, no one is right or wrong, we are all fans and love our club. We have our Anderson debates bro, which again we don’t know yet who will be proven right, but hey it is all good fun in getting there! 😆

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 14:46

          Stephen mi man you would make a great politician – very impressed! 😉 😆

        • Grognard

          17 October 2011 at 19:02

          You are inceredibly disrespectful and you have crossed the line big time with your blatant and rude attempt to belittle and insult my efforts and my point of view. I am not writing threads on this blog to compete with newspapers or wire services. I am writing my feelings and take and so if objectivity and sterile description is what you want, may I suggest the official Man Utd website.

    • Craig Mc

      17 October 2011 at 14:58

      Aaagh the voice of reason at last – well spoken Colver, and I agree wholeheartedly with your take on things as stated in your post comments!

  22. Craig Mc

    17 October 2011 at 14:52

    Stephen I will be on the terraces for the City game at OT – will you be there mate? It will be real DING DONG BANTERING from the United fans on all counts – can’t fookin wait! Hope I am stuck in the middle of the Rooney fans again – have such marvelous cajoling with Wazza’s fans winding them up, and they giving me some stick and calling me the most entertaining dumb-ass of the terraces – we love it! Well if the game becomes sterile, it all makes to relieve the tedium doesn’t it. I am expecting a thriller of a game though – are you?

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 14:55

      I think it will be a belter mate. I have tickets mate but I am still on my self imposed OT ban. Mi mates are getting on at me to go, I am really looking forward to it, it should be the game of the season.

  23. Craig Mc

    17 October 2011 at 15:00

    If you have tics get your arse over there mate – we need as many of the red rant lunatics on the terraces as we can get 😆

    • Stephen

      17 October 2011 at 15:02

      I think I will mate, havn’t been for ages. Also it will an early start at the pub, which can only be a good thing! 😆

      • Ian

        17 October 2011 at 15:10

        Which boozers do you boys get in on matchdays then?

        • Craig Mc

          17 October 2011 at 15:22

          The lads I go with don’t go to the boozer pre game – but we usually have a couple of jars in one of the lads homes before we leave for the game, unless we are designated driver – but we tend to visit the worsley/walkden/bolton pubs in the evenings and make a night of it 😀

        • Ian

          17 October 2011 at 15:34

          Worsley?!! Not the Barton Arms?

  24. Craig Mc

    17 October 2011 at 15:27

    Right I am off guys – the missus is back from work, so handed over my wee daughter, and now I have to go get stuck in to a pile of work of my own to catch up on. Needs must have eh – gotta bring in the dough 😆 😆 .

  25. Jay

    17 October 2011 at 20:01

    Dude … what is your beef with Evra? Did he steal your lunch money or something? I mean come on. He is probably one of the most talented left back with the ball at his feet. He makes great runs and holds the ball up well. Heck he even dribbles better than most of our mid fielders. Give him a break would you !

    • tonymontanna4united

      17 October 2011 at 22:00

      Erm are we talking about evra circa 2009 to present, or evra 2007-09 here? Because the evra of today is 100% the opposite of the evra your describing there. Hes lazy, always out of position that means others have to do his job as well as their own (where was he for the kuyt chance at 1-1, or ramires recently, or david luiz last season etc). His runs forward are over rated as well, as even when he gets forward his delivery is so god damn awful, they rarely even beat the first defender (i think that jones header on saturday was about the first time i remember him even delivering anything worthwhile in a long time).
      So to me anyway, this evra you speak of is like a mythical creature, and nothing like the lazy, out of position, awful defender i now see when i watch him. And i say that as someone who was once a very big fan of his, who argued for bloody hours with mates who tried to say ashley cole was better than him.
      That evra though im sorry to say, is no more, and has become such a calamity most weeks, id even start blooding young zeki fryers ahead of him because 18 months of crap, tells me hes finished.

  26. tonymontanna4united

    17 October 2011 at 21:41

    I think i already voiced my anger over the game on the thread on saturday, but just reading a few peoples posts on here on about how we approached the game more conservatively and got a point, ok i get that. I dont necessarily like the game plan we had, nor the way we played for 70 mins, but ok i get that.
    But im sorry, in no way, shape or form, should we ever, and i mean ever, bring ourselves down to the level where were quite happy to resort to hoof ball/long ball football. Im sorry but that type of thing should be bloody outlawed from this game, its a sight i find as sickening as dangerous tackles on players, and cheating/diving.
    The sign of a team totally devoid of any imagination, any balls, and a part of todays game that is becoming more and more frequent im sorry to say.
    But i expect that from the bottom/midtable dross, but from manchester united? No never.
    And that was probably what disappointed me most about saturdays match. You can approach a match more conservatively, you can send the team out more defensively, but that doesnt mean your only attacking output will come from long balls hit in hope they reach a team mate.
    Unfortunately that was about all we saw by way of attacking play from us in the first half. Ferdinand alone must have played a dozen long balls into the liverpool box, which were all subsequently headed away back into liverpool possession for them to launch another attack. As i said, ferdinand alone must have done that a good 10+ times, and thats not mentioning the number of times evans, evra, fletcher, even smalling (who was my joint MOTM with de gea) did the same.
    I mean, it got so bad, even the liverpool fans were jeering us. I mean, fucking liverpool, practically the inventors of long ball football from back in the 80’s jeering us. If theyre finding it bad, then you know you’re playing like shite.
    As i say, i think thats what disappointed me most about the game. That that was our game plan, that was our approach for most of the game, which was in complete contrast to the scousers, who atleast tried to play the floor along the deck, and were encouraging enrique and kelly (he actually really impressed me) to get forward whenever possible to add depth to the attack.
    Yes theyre the home team, and yes our record at anfield has been shoddy at best, but as i said, thats no reason for us to resort to hoofing the ball forward in hope.
    There is a stark difference afterall, between approaching a game rather cautiously in favour of adding steel to the back line, to parking the bus and kicking the ball forward in hope.
    So yes its a point more than weve managed to gain over the last 3/4 seasons there, but i dont think i can look at that game and feel anything other than regret, disappointment, and indeed a degree of anger, at the showing we gave against our hated rivals. Im sorry, but i just cant.
    Anyway i suppose its about looking ahead now to next weekend (the game tomorrow shouldnt even be a concern, should be an easy 4-0 plus win against more group stage dross) against shitty.
    At home to the berties though, i just hope we get ourselves sorted and approach the game in the way this club should always do, ie- Playing its best players, and sending them out to outscore the opposition. That’d leave us top of the tree once again, with a favourable run of games from then up to xmas.
    A crucial game really, and a game i hope has no similarities to the one we witnessed on saturday. Hopefully that is a game, we never have to hear about again, because apart from the goal by hernandez, and the performances of smalling and de gea, there was absolutely nothing worth remembering of anything good, from that game.

    • Grognard

      18 October 2011 at 04:50

      Well said mate. I agree as usual. From my point of view at least you get my disgust over the match. I love United but I hate the way they are playing of late regardless of the result. If we had won the game 2-0 I would have been upset with the style of football on display.

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